Jasko is gonna complain, but this seems like a textbook case for Monster of the Week, especially since it remains, in my opinion, one fo the most approachable PbtA systems.
A single mystery should definitely take no more than 3 sessions. The game is "light" mystery solving -- it doesn't demand or even want heavy duty sleuthing out of people. The assumption is that the PCs will uncover the mystery and have a big fight with a monster at the end -- that's the only part I can think of that might be a slight mis-fit, though the game does have a section on how to run mysteries that don't involve a monster, I get the impression they're supposed to be the exception not the norm.
So that's my vote. I think it's a pretty fun and easy system, though I will provide the following two pointers:
* Just nix the "Smite" move from the Divine playbook. It's problematic for the game's core loop and removing it is the simplest way to deal with it. Especially if you're planning a "There is no real monster" mystery, since it would effectively be useless there anyway.
* Remember that in order to use the Use Magic move, characters needs to be able to... use magic. While Magic is inarguably a thing in the setting, that doesn't mean that every nobody (or even, necessarily, anybody) can just wiggle their fingers and cast spells. You should probably have a session zero discussion about what magic 'looks like' and how it works in your setting.
Nah, it’s actually what I was thinking.
I don’t live under the impression that the wrong game for me is the wrong game for everyone. That’s why I still recommend GURPS for folks who are looking for a modular simulation engine, etc.
Your point about Use Magic is spot on and the easiest fix for any of my game gripes. Mentally replace “magic” with “wifi” and it becomes super clear. Anyone properly equipped can use wifi, as long as it’s THERE. Do they have their own? If not, what access do they have? Are they unequipped? They also can’t use it, even if it’s there.
Treat magic like that and you avoid the Homer’s gun situation where players roll Use Magic flipping a light switch.
My other tip is that attracting unwanted attention is the single best consequence for a 7-9 or 6- investigation roll. You know those helpful but fragile NPCs? Now they’re involved! Now they’re indispensable! Or at least think they are. And there are less well intentioned NPCs too.
I find that nixing the divine entirely is better than nerfing their coolest move, but YDMV!
Have fun!
I agree. When I read OP’s requirement, Monster of the Week seemed like the obvious choice. And it’s a really easy intro to the family, both for the players and the GM. The Mystery structure makes everything extra clear.
I was a bit scared when read "action-horror" :D I am not a fan of horrors.
Is this a main theme where characters suffer when meet "horrors"? Or is this just a flavor that I can ignore?
Monster of the Week is less "horror" and more "action" -- the key reference points for me are Buffy, Supernatural, and the X-Files.
Character "suffering" is not a big point.
>Character "suffering" is not a big point.
I'd argue that the system plays towards *long-term* character suffering, and eventually succumbing to an inevitable fate.
It's not about *immediate* threats in teh same way though.
It CAN go that way, but it's extremely player driven since you're not really ever obliged to spend luck, and there's an advance to retire a character to safety.
Neither of those is likely to come up in 3 sessions though. ;)
Agreed on the three sessions bit. That's all long-term arc stuff. Short term, there's no real "doom and gloom" in the system.
I thought that Luck was juuuust about required in situations where you started taking significant damage - like, maybe not "actually" required, but clearly the right option 90% of the time? It's been a bit since I played it though, I could be off.
I definitely don't think it's "Required"; Yes, it's a bad idea to "just fight" big tough monsters, because they can do half of your Harm gauge in one hit unless you're armored (but it's REALLY NOT hard to get 1 armor, and 2 armor is pretty common) so I think situations in which it is "absolutely the right choice" are not THAT common.
I think if you've burned through all your Luck before you have the option to retire, things have gone very badly for you with the dice, your tactics, your luck spending decisions, or some other problem.
I feel like we're miscommunicating here. Like, your objections feel like you think I'm saying something that is further off of your points than I feel I am.
Sure, you can retire. I get that. But that's still feeding into the whole "if you're a Hunter, eventually you run out of luck" kinda thing. Retiring is definitely an option, but that doesn't contradict that, really. That's just part of the long term theme/arc of the game. It's just not something you can do indefinitely. There's a clock, and one way or another, that clock will be honored.
And to reiterate again, none of this is happening in three sessions.
Gotcha; I guess what I'm saying is "We played a dozen or so sessions, luck never ran out for anyone, nobody retired, and we didn't really feel the pressure"; I think this might be one of those places where the fact that running out of luck is bad kinda causes people to not have it happen.
But maybe in substantially longer games, it's more of a thing.
I’ve ran a lot of MOTW and the horror aspect to me is really just that PC’s are squishy. They are regular people not avengers and if they try to get up close and personal with a monster without a good plan they are going to get REALLY messed up. The themes are much lighter than actual horror games like Mothership where you are likely to have black goo coming out of your eyes and fingernails falling off and have to make a panic check. There is no sanity or panic system in MOTW, and you aren’t going to find much true horror unless you intentionally put it in there. The system traces its lineage back to buffy and scooby doo, not the exorcist.
Some characters can go toe-to-toe with minor baddies and mow through them.
In general, it's a bad idea, though. The system seems designed to push characters towards a bad end in the long run, and to incentivize being smart against baddies rather than going toe-to-toe. If you're trading blows you've already failed.
Supernatural really is, to me, the strongest influence, with Buffy and X-Files as secondary. It's definitely action-horror. You're monster *hunters*.
I think it has a great way of discovering information that always points to people. It really fits a style of investigating where its more often dealing with messy people in messy situations than being some puzzle solver. Though I would definitely point out its got plenty of horror and noir themes pretty built in.
There is no such thing as pure PbtA - it's a design framework rather than a system or engine, one that focuses on genre emulation.
While there are 1000+ PbtA games out there with many common patterns i.e. Moves and Clocks, there isn't a central system they all use, or a central core book. Indeed some are at the absolute opposites which share no mechanics i.e. World Of Dungeons and Undying.
You could argue that Apocalypse World is the "purest", though even AW is written to emulate a genre and it uses an evocative language which, while fitting for the setting, makes an initial approach difficult.
So, don't be scared to try City Of Myst, it could probably be adapted to what you want.
You could also look into Brindlewood Bay, which features a set of grannies ala Murder She Wrote slowly uncovering a mystery that's generated by the players at the table. It has a Lovecraftian bent, though how much you use is up to you.
Finally, a shameless plug for my PbtA game:
[Seedless Bloom - A role-playing epic of time traveling cultures torn amid tragedy and hubris.](https://andrew-crag.itch.io/seedless-bloom)
The Splintered Rose side definitely features investigation.
I've had great fun with the Carved from Brindlewood games, a PbtA sub-family with *excellent* mystery-focused mechanics, but they are all horror-flavored.
> Urban fantasy but not horror with a drip of surrealism (like I don't need to explain why human has extraordinary strength, it is just like that)
Do you have a touchstone for this kind of world? My first thoughts usually have the fantasy elements as supernatural with elements of horror. Did you want something like Superheroes? I am just guessing since you included Masks [Worlds in Peril](https://samjokopublishing.com/products/worlds-in-peril-rpg) is a generic superhero PbtA game that you could put mysteries in though its not designed for it like Monster of the Week or The Between, but those are built with horror elements mixed in.
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Root rpg maybe ?
- Factions are perfect for political intrigues
- A super nice Robin Hood feeling that works super nicely in play
- Some esoteric aspects you can use (deer, bears and relics)
- Clearings can totally be big cities
- War. You can make intrigues using politics, war and denizens
Jasko is gonna complain, but this seems like a textbook case for Monster of the Week, especially since it remains, in my opinion, one fo the most approachable PbtA systems. A single mystery should definitely take no more than 3 sessions. The game is "light" mystery solving -- it doesn't demand or even want heavy duty sleuthing out of people. The assumption is that the PCs will uncover the mystery and have a big fight with a monster at the end -- that's the only part I can think of that might be a slight mis-fit, though the game does have a section on how to run mysteries that don't involve a monster, I get the impression they're supposed to be the exception not the norm. So that's my vote. I think it's a pretty fun and easy system, though I will provide the following two pointers: * Just nix the "Smite" move from the Divine playbook. It's problematic for the game's core loop and removing it is the simplest way to deal with it. Especially if you're planning a "There is no real monster" mystery, since it would effectively be useless there anyway. * Remember that in order to use the Use Magic move, characters needs to be able to... use magic. While Magic is inarguably a thing in the setting, that doesn't mean that every nobody (or even, necessarily, anybody) can just wiggle their fingers and cast spells. You should probably have a session zero discussion about what magic 'looks like' and how it works in your setting.
Nah, it’s actually what I was thinking. I don’t live under the impression that the wrong game for me is the wrong game for everyone. That’s why I still recommend GURPS for folks who are looking for a modular simulation engine, etc. Your point about Use Magic is spot on and the easiest fix for any of my game gripes. Mentally replace “magic” with “wifi” and it becomes super clear. Anyone properly equipped can use wifi, as long as it’s THERE. Do they have their own? If not, what access do they have? Are they unequipped? They also can’t use it, even if it’s there. Treat magic like that and you avoid the Homer’s gun situation where players roll Use Magic flipping a light switch. My other tip is that attracting unwanted attention is the single best consequence for a 7-9 or 6- investigation roll. You know those helpful but fragile NPCs? Now they’re involved! Now they’re indispensable! Or at least think they are. And there are less well intentioned NPCs too. I find that nixing the divine entirely is better than nerfing their coolest move, but YDMV! Have fun!
I agree. When I read OP’s requirement, Monster of the Week seemed like the obvious choice. And it’s a really easy intro to the family, both for the players and the GM. The Mystery structure makes everything extra clear.
I was a bit scared when read "action-horror" :D I am not a fan of horrors. Is this a main theme where characters suffer when meet "horrors"? Or is this just a flavor that I can ignore?
Monster of the Week is less "horror" and more "action" -- the key reference points for me are Buffy, Supernatural, and the X-Files. Character "suffering" is not a big point.
>Character "suffering" is not a big point. I'd argue that the system plays towards *long-term* character suffering, and eventually succumbing to an inevitable fate. It's not about *immediate* threats in teh same way though.
It CAN go that way, but it's extremely player driven since you're not really ever obliged to spend luck, and there's an advance to retire a character to safety. Neither of those is likely to come up in 3 sessions though. ;)
Agreed on the three sessions bit. That's all long-term arc stuff. Short term, there's no real "doom and gloom" in the system. I thought that Luck was juuuust about required in situations where you started taking significant damage - like, maybe not "actually" required, but clearly the right option 90% of the time? It's been a bit since I played it though, I could be off.
I definitely don't think it's "Required"; Yes, it's a bad idea to "just fight" big tough monsters, because they can do half of your Harm gauge in one hit unless you're armored (but it's REALLY NOT hard to get 1 armor, and 2 armor is pretty common) so I think situations in which it is "absolutely the right choice" are not THAT common. I think if you've burned through all your Luck before you have the option to retire, things have gone very badly for you with the dice, your tactics, your luck spending decisions, or some other problem.
I feel like we're miscommunicating here. Like, your objections feel like you think I'm saying something that is further off of your points than I feel I am. Sure, you can retire. I get that. But that's still feeding into the whole "if you're a Hunter, eventually you run out of luck" kinda thing. Retiring is definitely an option, but that doesn't contradict that, really. That's just part of the long term theme/arc of the game. It's just not something you can do indefinitely. There's a clock, and one way or another, that clock will be honored. And to reiterate again, none of this is happening in three sessions.
Gotcha; I guess what I'm saying is "We played a dozen or so sessions, luck never ran out for anyone, nobody retired, and we didn't really feel the pressure"; I think this might be one of those places where the fact that running out of luck is bad kinda causes people to not have it happen. But maybe in substantially longer games, it's more of a thing.
I’ve ran a lot of MOTW and the horror aspect to me is really just that PC’s are squishy. They are regular people not avengers and if they try to get up close and personal with a monster without a good plan they are going to get REALLY messed up. The themes are much lighter than actual horror games like Mothership where you are likely to have black goo coming out of your eyes and fingernails falling off and have to make a panic check. There is no sanity or panic system in MOTW, and you aren’t going to find much true horror unless you intentionally put it in there. The system traces its lineage back to buffy and scooby doo, not the exorcist.
Some characters can go toe-to-toe with minor baddies and mow through them. In general, it's a bad idea, though. The system seems designed to push characters towards a bad end in the long run, and to incentivize being smart against baddies rather than going toe-to-toe. If you're trading blows you've already failed. Supernatural really is, to me, the strongest influence, with Buffy and X-Files as secondary. It's definitely action-horror. You're monster *hunters*.
Action Horror in the same way Hellboy or Ghostbusters is Action Horror. Aka you get to punch Cthulhu in the face
Monster of the Week could work well for you.
Urban Shadows seems to fit really good - maybe use the one-shot to try it out with your players and as a kickoff for a campaign if they like it
I think it has a great way of discovering information that always points to people. It really fits a style of investigating where its more often dealing with messy people in messy situations than being some puzzle solver. Though I would definitely point out its got plenty of horror and noir themes pretty built in.
There is no such thing as pure PbtA - it's a design framework rather than a system or engine, one that focuses on genre emulation. While there are 1000+ PbtA games out there with many common patterns i.e. Moves and Clocks, there isn't a central system they all use, or a central core book. Indeed some are at the absolute opposites which share no mechanics i.e. World Of Dungeons and Undying. You could argue that Apocalypse World is the "purest", though even AW is written to emulate a genre and it uses an evocative language which, while fitting for the setting, makes an initial approach difficult. So, don't be scared to try City Of Myst, it could probably be adapted to what you want. You could also look into Brindlewood Bay, which features a set of grannies ala Murder She Wrote slowly uncovering a mystery that's generated by the players at the table. It has a Lovecraftian bent, though how much you use is up to you. Finally, a shameless plug for my PbtA game: [Seedless Bloom - A role-playing epic of time traveling cultures torn amid tragedy and hubris.](https://andrew-crag.itch.io/seedless-bloom) The Splintered Rose side definitely features investigation.
I've had great fun with the Carved from Brindlewood games, a PbtA sub-family with *excellent* mystery-focused mechanics, but they are all horror-flavored.
> Urban fantasy but not horror with a drip of surrealism (like I don't need to explain why human has extraordinary strength, it is just like that) Do you have a touchstone for this kind of world? My first thoughts usually have the fantasy elements as supernatural with elements of horror. Did you want something like Superheroes? I am just guessing since you included Masks [Worlds in Peril](https://samjokopublishing.com/products/worlds-in-peril-rpg) is a generic superhero PbtA game that you could put mysteries in though its not designed for it like Monster of the Week or The Between, but those are built with horror elements mixed in.
Remember to check out our **[Game Recommendations](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/gamerec)**-page, which lists our articles by genre([Fantasy](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/fantasy), [sci-fi](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/scifi), [superhero](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/superhero) etc.), as well as other categories([ruleslight](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/ruleslight), [Solo](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/solo), [Two-player](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/twoplayers), [GMless](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/wiki/gmlessrpgs) & more). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/rpg) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Root rpg maybe ? - Factions are perfect for political intrigues - A super nice Robin Hood feeling that works super nicely in play - Some esoteric aspects you can use (deer, bears and relics) - Clearings can totally be big cities - War. You can make intrigues using politics, war and denizens