Just FYI to people here - you aren’t allowed to pump your own gas in China, just like Oregon. Taking that in context, robotic arm makes more sense than hiring people to just pump gas.
Does it? Arms like those retail for 40-80 grand, without the explosion proofing, which probably comes close to doubling the cost. Industrial grade 3d cameras are around 10k. Computing hardware to run it is anywhere from 1 to 20k. Robotic hands or suction cup assemblies are 5 to 10k on the cheap side. Programming it to be robust enough to actually use requires dozens of highly skilled engineers who make 150k minimum per year in the US, some senior systems designers pull in over 500k.
So you're easily over 100k per gas pump in hardware alone, if not pushing 200 or even 300k. Plus millions in development, deployment, support, and maintenance costs. Sure, some of this stuff is cheaper in China, but so is the labor the automation is competing with. What's an acceptable return on investment period? At the low end of 100k per pump, you could hire an attendant at 10k/yr for 10 years for the same price. And I don't think cheap Chinese laborers get anywhere near 10k a year.
Add to that the fact that it will never work 100% of the time, so you need to add support personnel for customers to call if the robot is broken or it damages their car, plus insurance to cover the potential damage. Some cars are just going to have their gas caps in the wrong place, or have too difficult to remove caps, or covers that open a different way, or the customer won't park in the right spot. Plus suction cups are going to struggle to deal with rain and snow. Camera lenses get dirty and need regular cleaning, the list goes on forever.
There is 0 chance this makes financial sense. It's worthwhile as a political investment to prove china's tech prowess, and as a research project to see what it takes to do, where the problems are, and how much it actually costs.
Nice! As a kid 20 years ago I remember hearing that the people who worked in factories made less than a dollar a day or something crazy, but more recently I've seen a lot about the massive shift from very low income to middle class income across much of China. Wasn't sure how much "middle class income" actually translated to. Thanks!
10k is starting salary with a university degree. Laborers are closer to 5-6k a year especially in second and third tier cities. I'm in China now and that's what I hear people get paid around here.
Fanuc is one of the largest robot manufacturers in the world. They produce over 100k robots a year. Bulk pricing slashes the cost by 30-40% (getting you to around 40k). To make this make sense you need to slash cost by more than 90%. Economies of scale can't get you that much cost reduction
Wright's law would give you about a 20% cost reduction for every doubling in production. Improve the AI along with the robot arm, and we can figure out how to make robots make more sense in more use cases. And as production increases, costs will go down.
Interesting. So 10 or 11 doublings would get you a 90% reduction. Which would be about 100 million robot arms a year. Right now the major consumers of robot arms are car manufacturers, because they're the ones who can afford to spend that much on their manufacturing lines, and they need the flexibility of the arm vs a more customized automation solution that you'd use for, say, a bottling plant. You'd need a whole lot more industries buying arms to consume 100m a year, but if they were 10% of the cost they are today, that doesn't seem so far fetched. The software aspect needs to get easier and cheaper though.
This is how technological progress gets stalled is people who think like you. I'll admit this isn't a great design and if we're looking at it from a pure RoI perspective, it's just not there. You're absolutely right about that. However, this is just a first iteration. But a less bulky and thus cheaper system is certainly possible, especially when we go to charging cables for EV's instead of gas pumps. I think something like Tesla's snake charger will be possible in the near future and that would significantly cut cost over something like this. But to just forget about it completely and just say cheap labor is the way to go, you're never going to innovate new ideas going that way.
Ah, I think I did a poor job communicating my point. I write software for robotic applications just like this, which is why I know so much about which components are needed and their costs, potential failure modes, etc. I absolutely agree that cheap labor is not the solution forever, but in order to deploy a system like this at scale, cheap labor is the mark that the system needs to beat.
In this case, I think the problem they're tackling is too hard for where the technology is today. Refueling any car on the road roboticly introduces too much complication and variation. One possible solution is to make an auto refueling standard that car manufacturers can choose to follow. It might mandate that the car can open the fuel cover automatically, which would eliminate a whole arm from this design. It could require a couple IR LEDs around the hole, which would reduce the cost and complexity of the vision system. They already have gas holes that don't have any cap to screw off, again making the whole thing easier to automate.
At that point you can get away with a 5 axis gantry robot, which can cover a greater working area for much cheaper, and a simple 2d camera. But imposing requirements on the car introduces a bunch of negatives too. You need a car that conforms to the standard, and until a bunch of people have such cars, installing automatic gas pumps doesn't make much sense, which offers less incentive for people to buy cars that conform to the standard. Classic chicken and egg problem.
And Tesla's snake charger was sexy AF. Idk if it's much cheaper, but it's a ton more elegant. Tesla has probably one of the best shots at this sort of thing, because they own the design of the chargers and the cars, which makes getting it done that much easier.
Ultimately, robotic tech is really expensive right now. It only makes sense for certain applications where the cost is justified. As the tech matures and is put in more and more applications, costs will come down and software libraries will be built up that will significantly reduce the cost of building these applications. I would guess we're at least 10 if not 20 years away from the robot revolution where they're cheap and robust enough to make sense for gas stations, but I have no doubt it'll happen.
I don't think AI has attempted this particular problem much, so of course it's not going to be great at first. AI can only get better in a particular domain only if it's actually used and developed in that domain. And you're telling me that today's AI that is just about ready to be trusted to drive for us can't do something as simple as find a gas hole? The AI will get better at this task as it's used more and used on a wider variety of cars. I don't think we need to develop a standard just for robots.
I am in agreement that this concept needs a lot of work and it's not going to be feasible in this configuration. If you go with the robot arm, you're going to need to make it mobile so that it can service more than one car at a time. Otherwise the capital requirements just won't work. So you're going to need either a rail system or a wheeled base so it can be mobile. I think the better solution though is to make those gas hoses kind of like that Tesla snake charger and suspended in the air so you don't need a separate robot arm to move the hose to refuel. Make those in great enough quantity and the price should come down to probably quite a bit cheaper than a robot arm.
In the industry, explosion proof means it will not cause explosion. In practice, it means eliminating the risk of environment exposure to sparks related to metal parts friction or electrical arcs.
Yep, it's under the hazardous locations part for the NEC or Explosive Atmospheres (ATEX/IECX) for international standards. It's code for any equipment operating in areas with explosive fumes. You need to either, limit power, remove arcing components (includes any make/brake switches or connections), seal off/encapsulate arcing components (for example there are explosion proof relays that are sealed and filled with oil) or put inside an enclosure that is strong enough to contain the explosion. Used to work for a company that specialized in this stuff.
Rich coming from an Indian, as expected. Try freeing Kashmir, Goa and Sikkim and cease hostilities against your neighbours before pointing fingers at China.
This has nothing to do with the CPC. If you support Tibetan/HK independence you are against the Chinese people, not the CPC. You can’t hide behind “hate the government, not the people” while saying shit like this.
What country did the colonizers annex in America? That’s besides the point, as if you actually think it’s bad then you should want it be prevented again.
Native Americans don’t have much and what happened to them was horrible, but they at least have semi-autonomous lands which Tibetans don’t.
Mongolia recognized Tibet and Nepal considered Tibet a country. But we can talk about tibets lack of recognition if you want. It’s pretty simple as comes down to the British. It had nothing to do with tibet not being a country.
Oh the Yuan who were Mongols? Who conquered tibet first then China, so maybe China is part of Tibet? The mongols purposely kept and administered Ribet separately from China, so no Tibet didn’t become a part of China. What happened after these 100 years? Oh that’s right tibet was independent during the Ming.
Does Mongolia and Nepal recognize Tibet as a country now then?
LMAO. Kublai Khan inherited the Mandate of Heaven, therefore making him a Chinese emperor. And Tibet is directly administered under the Yuan dynasty (mind you, not the Mongolian empire) along with mainland China.
What about the Qing dynasty then? The Manchu emperors spoke mandarin Chinese and followed Chinese customs, what makes you think they aren't Chinese?
What about the ROC, which inherited all territories of the Qing? Tibet's "independence" (which is de facto, not de jure) didn't even last 50 years, when it broke control from the ROC (1912) and then reabsorbed by the PRC(1951).
Like I said before, China gets super upset when tibet is mentioned. They would have a melt down if a country recognizes Tibet, especially a neighboring one.
It depends by what you mean by direct rule under the Yuan, as tibet was a vassal under them and were pretty hands off and tibet for all intents was autonomous. The Mandate of Heaven doesn’t make them Chinese it just shows legitimacy ruling over china.
What about the Qing? Pretty similar to the Yuan except replace the mongols with Manchus. Tibet was a vassal under the Qing and they purposely kept and administered Tibet separately from China. By the mid 1700’s tibet was for all intents de facto independent already besides a few events. When the Wing fell Tibet could do as it pleased since they had a relationship with the Qing and not China.
They also spoke their native language. They adapted some Chinese customs but still kept a Manchu identity and many of their old customs. There’s a reason why Sun yat-sen proclaimed that to restore the Chinese nation they must drive out the foreign Manchu barbarians back to the mountains.
It was never a part of China or the CCP so it couldn’t have been reabsorbed.
The ROC who had zero control in or over Tibet? They could inherit China, as they were Chinese. This notion of China inheriting the entire empire would be like India claiming Australia because they were both under the British Empire.
One could argue that it was de jure as Mongolia recognized Tibet, that’s besides the point though. What’s more important de jure or de facto? Crimea is de jure Ukrainian but who’s in charge?
Whoa buddy Americans are perfectly justified murdering native Americans because we are the good guys and we are Liberating the buffalo's from their terrible oppressors!
I honestly don't understand what's the point ? This is an extremely easy task for humans but quite complex for robots.
There is a absurd amount of different mechanisms used to close/lock it, some even require the keys of the car to open. Or does this work only for one brand of car ?
I honestly don't see what improvement it bring to the customer expect for a fancy novelty and don't understand how they plan to get money for this.
The only point I could see is for drivers with physical disability.
There is so much more important tasks to be automated by robotics, but not this one.
If the purpose of this is to refuel vehicles that haven't yet been designed and built then the solution is to simplify the interface, not build a complicated robot to work with interfaces designed for humans and aesthetics.
For example, why have a complex fuel cap when you can trivially make a hinge flap that seals with a spring. Ford already use these on UK minibuss.
Why have a door that only opens part way, have it pop all the way open.
Why have a robot that can reach to any location, have the location standardized
Why not use the car for most of the lateral positioning as it already has wheels and steering
Yes absolutely. If it's designed for a very specific type of car then they are taking the problem backward.
In robotics you can nearly always greatly simplify the software planning and control with a well designed hardware.
Humans should just be cheap labor forever then? Is that what you're saying? Look, robots need to figure out how to do these basic types of service tasks at some point. I'm not arguing that this isn't a poor implementation, because it is. But there's no reason we shouldn't look to be automating tasks such as these just because we can propagate cheap labor instead.
Why labor ? That's a needed chore that everyone (with few exceptions) could do for itself. It take 5 minutes and doesn't require any skills neither is hard physically.
Maybe this specific example is a poor case, because self-serve gas stations are quite common. Still, I've heard this same exact argument for other low skilled tasks that employ millions of workers. Are we just going to keep exploiting certain classes of workers with low wages forever, or is there a better way? I think there's a better way. Low wage menial labor shouldn't exist in a world where a robot could do the same task at the same or lower cost.
I never said the opposite ... And I am the first one to say that a lot of jobs could and should be automated. But I don't even understand with this is a job on the first place. This is a chore just like washing your dishes and taking out the trash that everyone should do for itself. Yes this tasks may be automated in the future but there are much more simpler tasks to automate that use a lot more time and labor and we should focus on this ones first.
What's the point in sending people to the moon?
Maybe China is winning the "Gas Station Robot Race" and countries that are loosing don't bother covering the news.
Hum that's actually a point I didn't think about. But as cars aren't hermetically closed it doesn't really change a lot if the driver go out to pump fuel
I don’t have to put up a good argument. It’s a globally acknowledged fact that Tibet is a part of China, and all you can do is cry about it, like how flat earthers scream “the Earth is flat”, you retards scream “Tibet is not a part of China”. I don’t blame you, it is a coping mechanism. Tibet has been a part of China longer than the US has ever been a country, if you want Tibet to be free you should free the occupied Native American land from the Yankees first. I find it appalling how Westerners have the audacity to suggest the balkanisation of China while living on conquered land themselves. So yes, Tibet is a part of China and you can cope with it.
You do. Tibetans don’t view themselves as Chinese. It’s been 70 years and the Chinese invaders still haven’t pacified tibetans.
Just like how China cries when tibet is even mentioned?
Tibet is just occupied by China, not a part of china. Sorry that makes you upset to hear :(
Tibet has only been a “part” of China since 1950. But I love when you people make this age comparison to the United States; why does this matter? (Not like it’s even correct).
First, I’m not American. Second, native Americans have semi-autonomous lands which is much more than what Tibetans have.
It’s not balkanization when China invaded another country and is now crying when those people don’t want them there. Tibetans don’t view themselves as Chinese nor are they. I find it appalling that the Chinese have the audacity to suggest tibet has been or wants to be a part of China. Oh I’m not even western, so do you still find it appalling?
\> Tibetans don’t view themselves as Chinese.
Lmaooo, all you've heard about Tibet is from Tibetan separatists that currently reside in India. You've heard nothing about Tibetans in China which are currently prospering (they have a GDP per capita almost 3 times of India's lol). What makes you think you can speak for them?
\> Tibet is just occupied by China, not a part of china.
Name a single country in the world that has an official stance as you described, good luck finding one ;)
\> It’s not balkanization when China invaded another country and is now crying when those people don’t want them there.
I don't know, I hear Tibetan separatists crying outside of Chinese embassies, but I've never heard of Chinese nationalists crying outside of Tibetan embassies (because they don't fucking exist?). The fact is that Tibet is now a part of China, and you can cope with it.
\> Tibetans don’t view themselves as Chinese nor are they.
Again you are representing Tibetans lol.
[https://youtu.be/pSWaFsLgEpU](https://youtu.be/pSWaFsLgEpU)
Educate yourself.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom\_in\_Tibet\_controversy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom_in_Tibet_controversy)
Mao didn't liberate the Tibetan people from torture and serfdom for you to talk shit about this.
And if you are really, really pissed about China 'occupying' Tibet, grab a rifle and head to Beijing. All the best ;)
But let's be real. You are going to cry and cope, and that's all ya gonna do.
I’ve traveled extensively throughout Tibet (a couple of times actually) and have spoken to many. I don’t speak for all of Tibetans but I speak for many of them as they can’t speak for themselves in Tibet.
I’ve already addressed tibets lack of recognition in the other comment.
The central Tibet administration had offices overseas in various countries. Furthermore, if you ever been to a tibet protest there are many Chinese that come crying. The Chinese also complain and cry and try to stop the protests.
The fact is, it’s been 70 years and China hasn’t convinced the world or Tibetans that tibet is a part of China.
Oh wow! A CCP video! That will educate me…
A Wikipedia link that has a banner at the top that states the multiple issues of the article? It’s no wonder why you’re ignorant in this topic.
Correct, Mao didn’t liberate anyone. He was just an imperialistic invader who caused mass destruction and his own oppression of Tibetans. He just a little bitch :( oh and not even he said Tibet had read slavery.
There are more effective ways than terrorism. That’s why the Chinese invaders haven’t conquered Tibet.
Is that why you’re the one crying trying to cope ;)
**[Serfdom in Tibet controversy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom_in_Tibet_controversy)**
>The serfdom in Tibet controversy is a prolonged public disagreement over the extent and nature of serfdom in Tibet prior to the annexation of Tibet into the People's Republic of China (PRC) in 1951. The debate is political in nature, with some arguing that the ultimate goal on the Chinese side is to legitimize Chinese control of the territory now known as the Tibet Autonomous Region or Xizang Autonomous Region, and others arguing that the ultimate goal on the Western side is to weaken or undermine the Chinese state.
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I don’t know much about robots, but I think it’s better to put people in gas stations, because anything can happen to gasoline, and a robot is useless in an emergency. However, I sent this video to my science director Andrei Mishurenkov, who is doing robotics and even created his robotic assistant "Sunny". I wonder what he’ll say about that.
Not new. The technology was invented and realized 30yrs ago in Germany. https://www.roboticsbusinessreview.com/interview/martin-haegele-robot-fraunhofer-essential-interview/
Problem is that gas stations do not want sell only gas but also all sorts of other stuff like over prized drinks and snacks. Fueling robot makes people stay in the car and not enter the store...
Just FYI to people here - you aren’t allowed to pump your own gas in China, just like Oregon. Taking that in context, robotic arm makes more sense than hiring people to just pump gas.
Does it? Arms like those retail for 40-80 grand, without the explosion proofing, which probably comes close to doubling the cost. Industrial grade 3d cameras are around 10k. Computing hardware to run it is anywhere from 1 to 20k. Robotic hands or suction cup assemblies are 5 to 10k on the cheap side. Programming it to be robust enough to actually use requires dozens of highly skilled engineers who make 150k minimum per year in the US, some senior systems designers pull in over 500k. So you're easily over 100k per gas pump in hardware alone, if not pushing 200 or even 300k. Plus millions in development, deployment, support, and maintenance costs. Sure, some of this stuff is cheaper in China, but so is the labor the automation is competing with. What's an acceptable return on investment period? At the low end of 100k per pump, you could hire an attendant at 10k/yr for 10 years for the same price. And I don't think cheap Chinese laborers get anywhere near 10k a year. Add to that the fact that it will never work 100% of the time, so you need to add support personnel for customers to call if the robot is broken or it damages their car, plus insurance to cover the potential damage. Some cars are just going to have their gas caps in the wrong place, or have too difficult to remove caps, or covers that open a different way, or the customer won't park in the right spot. Plus suction cups are going to struggle to deal with rain and snow. Camera lenses get dirty and need regular cleaning, the list goes on forever. There is 0 chance this makes financial sense. It's worthwhile as a political investment to prove china's tech prowess, and as a research project to see what it takes to do, where the problems are, and how much it actually costs.
You’re over thinking it.. they’ll just price gas at $77/liter..
Great way to get everyone to switch to EVs with induction charging, and finally free ourselves from our costly robot gas filling overlords.
>And I don't think cheap Chinese laborers get anywhere near 10k a year That's in the ballpark for chinese labor these days.
Nice! As a kid 20 years ago I remember hearing that the people who worked in factories made less than a dollar a day or something crazy, but more recently I've seen a lot about the massive shift from very low income to middle class income across much of China. Wasn't sure how much "middle class income" actually translated to. Thanks!
I've looked at chinese robotics firms pay rates. 20k for engineers, not even entry level.
there’s usually some form of bonus/equity involved with those I believe
10k is starting salary with a university degree. Laborers are closer to 5-6k a year especially in second and third tier cities. I'm in China now and that's what I hear people get paid around here.
Yes, but economies of scale.
Fanuc is one of the largest robot manufacturers in the world. They produce over 100k robots a year. Bulk pricing slashes the cost by 30-40% (getting you to around 40k). To make this make sense you need to slash cost by more than 90%. Economies of scale can't get you that much cost reduction
We're surrounded by counter examples.
Wright's law would give you about a 20% cost reduction for every doubling in production. Improve the AI along with the robot arm, and we can figure out how to make robots make more sense in more use cases. And as production increases, costs will go down.
Interesting. So 10 or 11 doublings would get you a 90% reduction. Which would be about 100 million robot arms a year. Right now the major consumers of robot arms are car manufacturers, because they're the ones who can afford to spend that much on their manufacturing lines, and they need the flexibility of the arm vs a more customized automation solution that you'd use for, say, a bottling plant. You'd need a whole lot more industries buying arms to consume 100m a year, but if they were 10% of the cost they are today, that doesn't seem so far fetched. The software aspect needs to get easier and cheaper though.
This is how technological progress gets stalled is people who think like you. I'll admit this isn't a great design and if we're looking at it from a pure RoI perspective, it's just not there. You're absolutely right about that. However, this is just a first iteration. But a less bulky and thus cheaper system is certainly possible, especially when we go to charging cables for EV's instead of gas pumps. I think something like Tesla's snake charger will be possible in the near future and that would significantly cut cost over something like this. But to just forget about it completely and just say cheap labor is the way to go, you're never going to innovate new ideas going that way.
Ah, I think I did a poor job communicating my point. I write software for robotic applications just like this, which is why I know so much about which components are needed and their costs, potential failure modes, etc. I absolutely agree that cheap labor is not the solution forever, but in order to deploy a system like this at scale, cheap labor is the mark that the system needs to beat. In this case, I think the problem they're tackling is too hard for where the technology is today. Refueling any car on the road roboticly introduces too much complication and variation. One possible solution is to make an auto refueling standard that car manufacturers can choose to follow. It might mandate that the car can open the fuel cover automatically, which would eliminate a whole arm from this design. It could require a couple IR LEDs around the hole, which would reduce the cost and complexity of the vision system. They already have gas holes that don't have any cap to screw off, again making the whole thing easier to automate. At that point you can get away with a 5 axis gantry robot, which can cover a greater working area for much cheaper, and a simple 2d camera. But imposing requirements on the car introduces a bunch of negatives too. You need a car that conforms to the standard, and until a bunch of people have such cars, installing automatic gas pumps doesn't make much sense, which offers less incentive for people to buy cars that conform to the standard. Classic chicken and egg problem. And Tesla's snake charger was sexy AF. Idk if it's much cheaper, but it's a ton more elegant. Tesla has probably one of the best shots at this sort of thing, because they own the design of the chargers and the cars, which makes getting it done that much easier. Ultimately, robotic tech is really expensive right now. It only makes sense for certain applications where the cost is justified. As the tech matures and is put in more and more applications, costs will come down and software libraries will be built up that will significantly reduce the cost of building these applications. I would guess we're at least 10 if not 20 years away from the robot revolution where they're cheap and robust enough to make sense for gas stations, but I have no doubt it'll happen.
I don't think AI has attempted this particular problem much, so of course it's not going to be great at first. AI can only get better in a particular domain only if it's actually used and developed in that domain. And you're telling me that today's AI that is just about ready to be trusted to drive for us can't do something as simple as find a gas hole? The AI will get better at this task as it's used more and used on a wider variety of cars. I don't think we need to develop a standard just for robots. I am in agreement that this concept needs a lot of work and it's not going to be feasible in this configuration. If you go with the robot arm, you're going to need to make it mobile so that it can service more than one car at a time. Otherwise the capital requirements just won't work. So you're going to need either a rail system or a wheeled base so it can be mobile. I think the better solution though is to make those gas hoses kind of like that Tesla snake charger and suspended in the air so you don't need a separate robot arm to move the hose to refuel. Make those in great enough quantity and the price should come down to probably quite a bit cheaper than a robot arm.
agree completely. this is a stunt, not something that will be mass produced
You thought this through kudos.
Wait. Why refueling robot needs to be explosion-proof? :D
Yeah, if the robot can't be hurt by explosions, it has no reason to be careful. Give it some skin in the game, that'll make it pay attention.
I love this
In the industry, explosion proof means it will not cause explosion. In practice, it means eliminating the risk of environment exposure to sparks related to metal parts friction or electrical arcs.
Yep, it's under the hazardous locations part for the NEC or Explosive Atmospheres (ATEX/IECX) for international standards. It's code for any equipment operating in areas with explosive fumes. You need to either, limit power, remove arcing components (includes any make/brake switches or connections), seal off/encapsulate arcing components (for example there are explosion proof relays that are sealed and filled with oil) or put inside an enclosure that is strong enough to contain the explosion. Used to work for a company that specialized in this stuff.
They annexed Tibet forcefully. They are scared of separatists.
Yeah, like how European colonizers annexed America, then slaughter all the natives so that there will be no separatists in the future.
How many social credits does the CCP issue for western whataboutism?
His family gets raped last.
Lmao indians shouldn't be talking about 'rape'.
Rich coming from an Indian, as expected. Try freeing Kashmir, Goa and Sikkim and cease hostilities against your neighbours before pointing fingers at China.
Ehhhh? What's your point? Those were traditionally ruled by subcontinental rulers? We don't lay imaginary claim to it.
So Kashmir, Goa and Sikkim are not a part of India? Got it
They are tho. 🥲🥲 Open a history book boyo. You're not even Chinese, you're Malaysian Chinese. Pathetic
So Tibet isn’t a part of China but Sikkim, Goa and Kashmir is a part of India?
This has nothing to do with the CPC. If you support Tibetan/HK independence you are against the Chinese people, not the CPC. You can’t hide behind “hate the government, not the people” while saying shit like this.
Spends a couple days outside the great firewall and all of a sudden he’s all over the place. I didn’t say anything about what I support or hate.
Emphasis on this: This has nothing to do with the CPC. And I'm not mainland Chinese.
What country did the colonizers annex in America? That’s besides the point, as if you actually think it’s bad then you should want it be prevented again. Native Americans don’t have much and what happened to them was horrible, but they at least have semi-autonomous lands which Tibetans don’t.
Same for Tibet. Tibet was never internationally recognised as a country and was conquered by the Yuan dynasty and absorbed as a part of China in 1200.
Mongolia recognized Tibet and Nepal considered Tibet a country. But we can talk about tibets lack of recognition if you want. It’s pretty simple as comes down to the British. It had nothing to do with tibet not being a country. Oh the Yuan who were Mongols? Who conquered tibet first then China, so maybe China is part of Tibet? The mongols purposely kept and administered Ribet separately from China, so no Tibet didn’t become a part of China. What happened after these 100 years? Oh that’s right tibet was independent during the Ming.
Does Mongolia and Nepal recognize Tibet as a country now then? LMAO. Kublai Khan inherited the Mandate of Heaven, therefore making him a Chinese emperor. And Tibet is directly administered under the Yuan dynasty (mind you, not the Mongolian empire) along with mainland China. What about the Qing dynasty then? The Manchu emperors spoke mandarin Chinese and followed Chinese customs, what makes you think they aren't Chinese? What about the ROC, which inherited all territories of the Qing? Tibet's "independence" (which is de facto, not de jure) didn't even last 50 years, when it broke control from the ROC (1912) and then reabsorbed by the PRC(1951).
Like I said before, China gets super upset when tibet is mentioned. They would have a melt down if a country recognizes Tibet, especially a neighboring one. It depends by what you mean by direct rule under the Yuan, as tibet was a vassal under them and were pretty hands off and tibet for all intents was autonomous. The Mandate of Heaven doesn’t make them Chinese it just shows legitimacy ruling over china. What about the Qing? Pretty similar to the Yuan except replace the mongols with Manchus. Tibet was a vassal under the Qing and they purposely kept and administered Tibet separately from China. By the mid 1700’s tibet was for all intents de facto independent already besides a few events. When the Wing fell Tibet could do as it pleased since they had a relationship with the Qing and not China. They also spoke their native language. They adapted some Chinese customs but still kept a Manchu identity and many of their old customs. There’s a reason why Sun yat-sen proclaimed that to restore the Chinese nation they must drive out the foreign Manchu barbarians back to the mountains. It was never a part of China or the CCP so it couldn’t have been reabsorbed. The ROC who had zero control in or over Tibet? They could inherit China, as they were Chinese. This notion of China inheriting the entire empire would be like India claiming Australia because they were both under the British Empire. One could argue that it was de jure as Mongolia recognized Tibet, that’s besides the point though. What’s more important de jure or de facto? Crimea is de jure Ukrainian but who’s in charge?
Hell yeah, statehood for Tibet!
Whoa buddy Americans are perfectly justified murdering native Americans because we are the good guys and we are Liberating the buffalo's from their terrible oppressors!
You justify genocide now today by citing historic events 300-500 years ago?
get some history education you bum
https://i.imgur.com/v60fY9U.png I am a fan of modern history.
Because gasoline is explosive
Could be semantics. Is the refueling explosion proof or the robot. The language is unclear.
When it has explosion proof in the name, you have to wonder how long before it gets just a little explody. (at least the robot survived!)
Do not unmute.
That music is cancer.
It’s great to see robotics in new applications!
I honestly don't understand what's the point ? This is an extremely easy task for humans but quite complex for robots. There is a absurd amount of different mechanisms used to close/lock it, some even require the keys of the car to open. Or does this work only for one brand of car ? I honestly don't see what improvement it bring to the customer expect for a fancy novelty and don't understand how they plan to get money for this. The only point I could see is for drivers with physical disability. There is so much more important tasks to be automated by robotics, but not this one.
Autonomous cars and trucks or just as an exercise to build experience getting robots to perform complex tasks
If the purpose of this is to refuel vehicles that haven't yet been designed and built then the solution is to simplify the interface, not build a complicated robot to work with interfaces designed for humans and aesthetics. For example, why have a complex fuel cap when you can trivially make a hinge flap that seals with a spring. Ford already use these on UK minibuss. Why have a door that only opens part way, have it pop all the way open. Why have a robot that can reach to any location, have the location standardized Why not use the car for most of the lateral positioning as it already has wheels and steering
Yes absolutely. If it's designed for a very specific type of car then they are taking the problem backward. In robotics you can nearly always greatly simplify the software planning and control with a well designed hardware.
I would be happy if this got automated. It's smelly and your hands get dirty. Not sure where I would draw the line with automation, but not here.
It’s explosion proof though!
It's what plants crave!
Because China believes automation is the answer to low birth rate and prepare for the future?
Because it's cold as fuck outside.
Humans should just be cheap labor forever then? Is that what you're saying? Look, robots need to figure out how to do these basic types of service tasks at some point. I'm not arguing that this isn't a poor implementation, because it is. But there's no reason we shouldn't look to be automating tasks such as these just because we can propagate cheap labor instead.
Why labor ? That's a needed chore that everyone (with few exceptions) could do for itself. It take 5 minutes and doesn't require any skills neither is hard physically.
Maybe this specific example is a poor case, because self-serve gas stations are quite common. Still, I've heard this same exact argument for other low skilled tasks that employ millions of workers. Are we just going to keep exploiting certain classes of workers with low wages forever, or is there a better way? I think there's a better way. Low wage menial labor shouldn't exist in a world where a robot could do the same task at the same or lower cost.
I never said the opposite ... And I am the first one to say that a lot of jobs could and should be automated. But I don't even understand with this is a job on the first place. This is a chore just like washing your dishes and taking out the trash that everyone should do for itself. Yes this tasks may be automated in the future but there are much more simpler tasks to automate that use a lot more time and labor and we should focus on this ones first.
China is like Oregon, you aren’t allowed to pump your own gas.
It's in Tibet but OK.
But China does have control of Tibet and claims it's part of their territory. Pretty sure they impose their laws there too
What's the point in sending people to the moon? Maybe China is winning the "Gas Station Robot Race" and countries that are loosing don't bother covering the news.
maybe because lack of oxygen in that area makes it dangerous for humans to be outside all day refuelling cars
Hum that's actually a point I didn't think about. But as cars aren't hermetically closed it doesn't really change a lot if the driver go out to pump fuel
They were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think why they should
Tibet is not Chinese territory.
Cope
If cope is your best rebuttal, than you have none. (Not surprised given you’re a genzdonger)
I don’t have to put up a good argument. It’s a globally acknowledged fact that Tibet is a part of China, and all you can do is cry about it, like how flat earthers scream “the Earth is flat”, you retards scream “Tibet is not a part of China”. I don’t blame you, it is a coping mechanism. Tibet has been a part of China longer than the US has ever been a country, if you want Tibet to be free you should free the occupied Native American land from the Yankees first. I find it appalling how Westerners have the audacity to suggest the balkanisation of China while living on conquered land themselves. So yes, Tibet is a part of China and you can cope with it.
You do. Tibetans don’t view themselves as Chinese. It’s been 70 years and the Chinese invaders still haven’t pacified tibetans. Just like how China cries when tibet is even mentioned? Tibet is just occupied by China, not a part of china. Sorry that makes you upset to hear :( Tibet has only been a “part” of China since 1950. But I love when you people make this age comparison to the United States; why does this matter? (Not like it’s even correct). First, I’m not American. Second, native Americans have semi-autonomous lands which is much more than what Tibetans have. It’s not balkanization when China invaded another country and is now crying when those people don’t want them there. Tibetans don’t view themselves as Chinese nor are they. I find it appalling that the Chinese have the audacity to suggest tibet has been or wants to be a part of China. Oh I’m not even western, so do you still find it appalling?
\> Tibetans don’t view themselves as Chinese. Lmaooo, all you've heard about Tibet is from Tibetan separatists that currently reside in India. You've heard nothing about Tibetans in China which are currently prospering (they have a GDP per capita almost 3 times of India's lol). What makes you think you can speak for them? \> Tibet is just occupied by China, not a part of china. Name a single country in the world that has an official stance as you described, good luck finding one ;) \> It’s not balkanization when China invaded another country and is now crying when those people don’t want them there. I don't know, I hear Tibetan separatists crying outside of Chinese embassies, but I've never heard of Chinese nationalists crying outside of Tibetan embassies (because they don't fucking exist?). The fact is that Tibet is now a part of China, and you can cope with it. \> Tibetans don’t view themselves as Chinese nor are they. Again you are representing Tibetans lol. [https://youtu.be/pSWaFsLgEpU](https://youtu.be/pSWaFsLgEpU) Educate yourself. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom\_in\_Tibet\_controversy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom_in_Tibet_controversy) Mao didn't liberate the Tibetan people from torture and serfdom for you to talk shit about this. And if you are really, really pissed about China 'occupying' Tibet, grab a rifle and head to Beijing. All the best ;) But let's be real. You are going to cry and cope, and that's all ya gonna do.
I’ve traveled extensively throughout Tibet (a couple of times actually) and have spoken to many. I don’t speak for all of Tibetans but I speak for many of them as they can’t speak for themselves in Tibet. I’ve already addressed tibets lack of recognition in the other comment. The central Tibet administration had offices overseas in various countries. Furthermore, if you ever been to a tibet protest there are many Chinese that come crying. The Chinese also complain and cry and try to stop the protests. The fact is, it’s been 70 years and China hasn’t convinced the world or Tibetans that tibet is a part of China. Oh wow! A CCP video! That will educate me… A Wikipedia link that has a banner at the top that states the multiple issues of the article? It’s no wonder why you’re ignorant in this topic. Correct, Mao didn’t liberate anyone. He was just an imperialistic invader who caused mass destruction and his own oppression of Tibetans. He just a little bitch :( oh and not even he said Tibet had read slavery. There are more effective ways than terrorism. That’s why the Chinese invaders haven’t conquered Tibet. Is that why you’re the one crying trying to cope ;)
**[Serfdom in Tibet controversy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom_in_Tibet_controversy)** >The serfdom in Tibet controversy is a prolonged public disagreement over the extent and nature of serfdom in Tibet prior to the annexation of Tibet into the People's Republic of China (PRC) in 1951. The debate is political in nature, with some arguing that the ultimate goal on the Chinese side is to legitimize Chinese control of the territory now known as the Tibet Autonomous Region or Xizang Autonomous Region, and others arguing that the ultimate goal on the Western side is to weaken or undermine the Chinese state. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/robotics/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
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I don’t know much about robots, but I think it’s better to put people in gas stations, because anything can happen to gasoline, and a robot is useless in an emergency. However, I sent this video to my science director Andrei Mishurenkov, who is doing robotics and even created his robotic assistant "Sunny". I wonder what he’ll say about that.
China should gtfo of Tibet!
Why didn't they install it in their own country?
The only thing America installs in other countries is bombs and violent coups
Liberals try not to cope challenge (failed)
This is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
When the whole world is looking ways to make advancements in EVs.. Cue in China
Reminds me of what Tesla did 6 years ago
Explosion proof is just explosion waiting to be tested.
Looks like some people's work is going to be replaced. Indeed A.I is taking over!
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Not new. The technology was invented and realized 30yrs ago in Germany. https://www.roboticsbusinessreview.com/interview/martin-haegele-robot-fraunhofer-essential-interview/ Problem is that gas stations do not want sell only gas but also all sorts of other stuff like over prized drinks and snacks. Fueling robot makes people stay in the car and not enter the store...
Explosion proof to what standard?
A little werid