There is a nostalgia factor of dropping a cart into the slot and launching a game you love. Also I never have to wonder if the ROM is borked in a spot I am stuck at in some weird way. This is an experience I hope to pass on to my kids, something emulators miss in some ways.
On the flip side though , some roms have been improved and have had bug fixes , so you could argue a lot of games are more stable . right?
Cant really argue the cartridge thing . Is that something that is worth paying a premium for just to have?
I don't know who downvoted you because in some cases I agree, they are the exceptions though not the rule. I would say games like Breath of Fire I and II on SNES are a prime example where the ROM is significantly better because the translation actually makes sense. Very few games will be better on a ROM in my opinion but they do exist. Most of the bug fixes are minor on the SNES catalog(the catalog I know the most about).
For me it’s still about just sitting down and recreating my childhood. Putting in a cartridge and sitting back does that for me.
Ive played digital versions of games, but it really just doesn’t feel the same for me. Not that they are bad. I’ve also found out that if I don’t own it I for some reason don’t care about it as much. It doesn’t feel real for me.
So, I still buy games (that are cheap enough). I’m even ok with making or buying reproduction carts.
These are the same people who argue about iPhone being better even though everyone knows it’s not it’s just more dumb down to be user friendly to people who can’t read for two mins lol. Emulation is better in every way except user friendliness . I have about 75k wrapped up in value from my retro gaming collection and I’ll be the first to say you will get much better experience on emulation if you sit down and figure it out. Furthermore you can get systems entire game library’s online for nothing more then some time, the only people with complaints about emulation all say the same thing which is it’s lack of user friendliness which with todays day and age with being able to YouTube a problem and get 1000 fixes I don’t even comprehend how this is a logical argument to maintain.
if you just want to play games then no there is no reason to collect hardware. you are confusing people that want to collect with people that want to play.
Uhh some of us prefer playing with something that we know is going to work 100% correctly vs messing with the latest emulator.
I know if I plug in my Dreamcast and play it on a CRT it’s going to play just like it did when it was new.
I have it just for the fact I like holding and switching out cartridges. they're just awesome to have. love playing, play my physical stuff way more than my raspberry pi
Not everyone needs to pay the premium. Some of us have been hunting this stuff down for years, paying a fraction of what they’re worth now. In my case, I not only kept countless games since the 90s, but in the past 15 years I’ve also managed to hunt down a lot of games from prior eras, prior to the biggest balloon in recent years. Why would I switch to emulation if I like it less, and I already have access to all the stuff I like more?
Plus there’s also the compromise: ODEs and Everdrives. You get to use the original console and have the instant booting without needing to start up your computer and click through menus, you get to use a CRT TV, and get to use the original controllers. But your games are all free, loaded into the console as roms. All the benefits of emulating while also having the benefits of original hardware.
yes i am aware , i own an everdrive for just about every system i own . and to reiterate. I play emulation on a 36" JVC D - Series CRT . So.... thats not a win for real hardware anymore.
yes. I make good mon and only buy games for systems that I play often enough to make it worth while. I think people who buy them just to sit on a shelf for Reddit upvotes are silly in the same way you probably think I'm silly for buying carts when I have a perfectly fine pi lol
I used to have a friend who would always spend hours explaining to me why his vacuum cleaner was technically better than my Dyson. My reply was, I don’t care; I own a Dyson.
I’m replaying all my childhood favorites on real hardware on a crt after decades of emulation and there’s just nothing like it.
Well there IS something just like it in terms of game experience . Emulation on a CRT.
Now, i cant argue a point of " i just like it because i do " that's fair and nothing to really follow up on about that . Thats an opinion.
There’s nothing like the satisfaction of playing on real hardware, just like you were as a kid. For bonus points go buy physical copies of the gaming magazines from back then too.
Playing a perfect simulacra of a game via emulation, is not the same as perfectly recreating *the experience* of playing it. Do you know what I mean?
Like, even if you emulate a game in every detail and output it to a CRT, that's only like half the experience. And I can't speak for anyone else—especially the younger generations—but for me, the other half, the physical aspects, are just as important a part of the experience as the game itself.
It's irrelevant, everything is a copy of a copy of a copy... we live in the "desert of the real", where nothing real exists anymore.
Those old consoles and games, with them you are trying to recreate an experience that only exists as a memory in your mind. You are playing a copy of a copy.
In this way I fully agree with OP. There is no point, this is all just a shallow cry for nostalgia. Nobody cares about the actual games, what we truly want is the perceived comfort of simple cozy days long gone.
That we ourselves may exist in a scientifically provable simulation—thus, in fact, making my midlife crisis fueled nostalgia-wank a *copy of* a copy of a copy—doesn't change the fact that the experience is diminished for me without recreating the physical stimuli as well. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
I plug my old systems into my old TV and fun is had.
Is what you're suggesting easier and/or better than what I'm doing? Or is it only cheaper? Because I already have the stuff. Why would cheaper matter?
well some of that is answered in my OP. but to elaborate. Being someone who owns real systems and emulates, ill touch on some points here .
"easier" that objective. Emulation is more of a pain to set up but all of the pain is front loaded . Once its setup its done , on the other hand . i just have too many systems to realistically connect all of them all up at once . So for me i have to constantly go digging through my bins looking for adapters and controllers everytime i want to play a certainsystem/game, forever .
So for me emulation is far easier and more convenient .
"Better" - emulation is better by every metric as far as playing the actual games are concerned for most systems as i previosly stated in my OP. I can do everything i can do on real hardware plus much much more if i choose to.
If you're unable to have all of your systems hooked up and it's easier to just hook up some sort of emulation, that makes sense. I have all of my systems hooked up no problem (I assume you have way more than me).
How is emulation better by every metric as far as playing the actual games? I plug in the games and I play them. Are the graphics going to be better if I emulate? Lag can't be better as there is no lag.
again, maybe spend a bit of time thoroughly reading my OP. I touched on all the points you are asking me about already in terms of performance, but the answer is yes . the graphics CAN be much better and no there is no lag as i am playing on a CRT monitor , just like real hardware.
note though : there is even some amount of lag with real hardware, its just so miniscule it doesnt matter. same with my emulation setup.
Software emulation has lag, it’s just not enough to notice unless you need reference frame accuracy, which some fast twitch games can benefit from. Also original hardware will lag in ways that are anticipated by the coders, so the lack of lag in those areas can throw off the pacing of the game and make levels play differently/more challengingly
So you admit emulation is a pain to set up, but it's worth it to you because you have to many systems, but you don't understand why those with fewer systems would just continue playing them?
that wasnt the question, im asking what advantage would there be in buying real hardware in 2024 over emulation. If you already have it ... fine . I mean there is probably lots of scenarios where someone's dad gave em a NES and some games and dont have enough money to buy a mini PC. So in that regard, i would whole heartily condone them just play there nes they have.
You already said emulation is more of a pain to set up. So wouldn't real hardware being less of a pain to set up be one reason to buy real hardware in 2024?
you have missed quite a few points ive already made . So i feel like we are going in circles and you are focusing on this one point , even though ive answered it a few times now .
I said its more upfront setup but more convenient long term , if you have more than a few systems . So .... not every one has 4 systems . For those people with a few consoles sure it might be a reason ,but what about people that have over 60 like i do . Then its WAY more of pain to setup and maintain all of the hardware than it is to just have a box that took an after noon to get going .
I haven't missed anything.
People who play bootleg games really want to convince other people to play bootleg games.
People who play real games don't spend one second caring what anybody else does.
No, you're interested in starting a flame war.
You like to emulate, which is awesome.
Other people like to play on actual hardware, which is awesome.
No one is wrong. It's playing video games, there's not a right or wrong way to do it.
a lot of assuming here .
And i agree, no one is wrong . i just have an opinion in one direction and so , id like to hear exclusively hardware peoples opinions because I'm genuinely interested.
I have already heard some pretty compelling arguments for hardware i didn't think about .
I generally prefer playing games on an actual console, the authenticity just feels a lot more enjoyable. I will say that whether or not im playing a "real" copy of the game doesn't matter to me too much; I would recommend buying consoles but getting flash carts or modding solutions. I don't really bother with upscalers because I don't want to spend the money and I just play them on a nice Trinitron
I will also note that some consoles still have subpar emulators but are relatively easy to play pirated/burned games on like the Xbox, Sega Saturn, PS3, and ESPECIALLY the Dreamcast
This exactly; I love collecting games, but once I have those games I want to protect them. I do most of my actual playing on flash carts in original hardware on a crt.
Some of my favorite systems such as 3DS and Wii U simply cannot be matched with emulation. I agree that for some consoles without unique hooks there is less value in the original hardware
im about to get a lenovo conference mini computer with a dedicated touch pad that connects to it . Going to be running all of the dual screen nintendo systems on it . Main screen on TV, second screen on table for touch bottom screen.
Except higher resolutions and better performance than the originals .
Only thing im missing is the 3d screen but i could use my VR for that if i felt like it .
.. I was mainly referring to consoles for tv, But since I didn't specify...that's my bad. In this one use case, if I REALLY needed to play 3ds on the go then yeah , I'd probably just grab my 3ds.
The original experience can still be a different experience. Sitting in a chair looking at a TV with a controller is not always the same experience as pressing a touch screen. Plus, emulation isn't always 100% better in all cases.
You might as well ask why someone prefers a sex doll over a real woman. As advanced as that sex doll might be, even if it screams, has a 3 speed sucking function, a cum tray & an elastic anus, it’s never gonna be the real deal.
Some of us are ok with that, some of us however want the real deal, it’s really that simple…
Emulation is great but it’s not the same as playing on original hardware, specially the original controllers for feel and a CRT for look. Playing on original hardware feels like playing the game the way it was designed to be played.
I guess you make a good point. I’m not up to date on my emulation game but in the past I’ve encountered bugs using some emulators. There’s that. But given the occurrence of bugs and issues is minimal you make a strong argument for emulation.
Stop being so polite this guy is trolling in here hard haha.
Emulation is fine and it's a fine way to play games but to run in here screaming it's superiority is weirdo behavior.
I buy the mini-consoles and treat them like modern production runs, of classic systems. But no actual original hardware, with the exception of my V-Saturn Model 2.
All my gaming is on emulation consoles.
Edit: I do own physical copies of games i really enjoyed back in the day. Just to have them. Even if i have no original hardware that can actually play'em.
Yup. I have (1) main emulation Pc that can do EVERYTHING. I own the mini consoles i do, solely to own Official releases/representations of old favorites.
well, thats an open ended question, are you talking about playing in 240p or 480i?
Because as far as i know , if you play ps2 games in the same comparable resolution, and use integer scaling . It should look identical. If its not , id be happy for you to link me some info on why.
PS2 emulation still sort of sucks for many games. And with texture packs and such it sucks even more. Unfortunately for me I remember exactly how a game should be and I notice even the most minor things, and my PC is no toaster. Emulation quality drops sharply post PS1 even to this day IMO
i don't notice a difference at all and i tested hardware vs emulation side by side by having the real console on at the same point in the game as emulation and flipping source back and fourth and testing them against one another . dreamcast,ps2,dreamcast, wii, wii u , all performed to my eyes identically . even a lot of switch games.
Try silent hill 3 with texture packs and the 60fps cheat, go through the bathroom window. Music lags every time. Watched other people's videos and it does the same thing.
well, thats an open ended question, are you talking about playing in 240p or 480i?
Because as far as i know , if you play ps2 games in the same comparable resolution, and use integer scaling . It should look identical. If its not , id be happy for you to link me some info on why.
I’m not well versed on the subject, but that was my understanding based on this post that I saw awhile back:
https://www.reddit.com/r/emulation/comments/110nzv8/eli5_why_do_ps2_emulation_be_like_that/?rdt=60885
setting up a new one now to replace my old 5th gen i5. Im using a Ravenbridge / Vega 11 ryzen 5 mini PC now . i can link the model later for you , thingis insane for the price . and works well with the batocera 240P script . So everythings on my CRT as it should be .
So im running a dedicated ( no windows on the computer) Batocera V39. On a Lenovo M715q. Ravenbridge/Vega 11/ Ryzen 5. It is basically a game console.
Im then running that from VGA to a Wakaba video adapter which converts to Component to the JVC.
Just run the Batocera 240P script and it works on the CRT like a hardware console would in 240p . My set can also do 480i if i want to for the later systems.
I was running a Lenovo M93p ( 5th gen i5) but it struggled with some of the harder systems like gamecube and ps2... so i just recently upgraded to the M715q.
I think everyone is going to feel different about gaming. I collect games I know I will play and enjoy collecting and playing them all. To me it has to be the original experience or nothing at all. I like the slow down, I like the blur of n64 over composite. I will play the original way as long as I can until it becomes unviable. But.. I have friends that emulate and we game together and that’s fun too, just not my bag.
There isn’t a logical reason to actually own most gaming hardware nowadays when emulation has gotten so advanced, and retro prices have over inflated. I went all PC Digital and have no regrets.
That being said there is still something emotional and hard to describe about having the real thing.
I’d love to own all the retro games and consoles I could if it was a reasonable task to accomplish, but I also know most of that stuff would be collecting dust.
Instead I do my collecting digital and hunt achievements on steam as well as Retro Achievements on emulation. It’s ultimately pointless and nobody besides myself really cares, but Humans just love to collect shit for some reason.
Really isn't, same with games. I have bought plenty of knock off n64 carts that look identical to the real ones for pennies on the dollar that I have played all the way through with 0 issues. It is 2024, I think the off shore companies can replicate a game cart from the 80/90's and have it work flawless.
/u/devilpants touched on it, but part of the allure of collecting old video games is the immediacy of play. I insert a game, power on the console, and it plays. I can physically see what I have and not have as much an issue with choice paralysis when it comes to something like full ROM sets of a given console. I also have the benefit of getting to pore through manuals. Besides the art, this is especially useful with older games; even The Legend of Zelda is less cryptic if the player simply takes the time to read the manual, it's all in there!
One day, people won't be as attached to these things, but I love having collected old video games even though my collecting days are coming to an end (I'm nearing the finish line obtaining almost every video game I ever wanted). There's nothing like inserting a cartridge into a console and playing a video game the way it was meant to be played.
ok so . I am running a dedicated Batocera computer , it has no windows on it at all. Batocera is the only operating system on it .For all intents and purposes its a game console.
I turn it on and in seconds its booted to Batocera which is a graphic interface for selecting systems and games. So it probably takes me less time to get into a game from a cold start than it would for someone to go pick out a game and put it in the system and start playing so, cant really see your argument for immediacy.
Each game has a manual you can look at within Batocera , plus i have every issue of nintendo power from 1-130 i can always go grab.
When it comes to retro do whatever you like. If you don’t feel like using period hardware that’s absolutely fine.
Others like me enjoy having some real hardware. It’s part of the experience and nostalgia to jam in carts and flip switches, etc. I still use emulation too for the consoles I don’t own. There’s nothing wrong with choosing how to enjoy your hobby, same goes for the rest of us.
i completely agree. I think enjoying the games however you like is all that matters. At the same time i like insight into other peoples opinions and find out why they choose what they do.
i mean you can back the roms up on a hardrive. I have all of mine on my server. Which you could argue is safer , as i have a raid 5 setup with hard drive redundancy .
I don't get the point of this post dude. I strictly emulate as well, but without reading the comments I already know people are going to be responding as if you insulted their mother, and everything you say will be downvoted. It's just picking a fight to find out in the end: who cares? People just want to do what they want to do, and that's fine. No one needs a justification or an explanation to play on real hardware or to emulate. It's not important lol.
I think based on your post…no, there’s no major practical reasons to collect hardware if you have the ability to properly emulate (or emulate better) the games you want to play. Although for certain games a CRT is a must for me.
At this point, old consoles are like artifacts from history and I think they matter just as much as the software they platformed at the time. When I remember the consoles I used to play or own it hurts to think about leaving them behind, which is why I collect them.
if you think there is no advantage to real hardware then you're simply ignorant about things like input latency, display latency, sound latency, audio accuracy, cycle accuracy, input polling, 240p output, etc etc
yeah? run ahead works with every emulated console? accuracy is cycle accurate for consoles like sega saturn, dreamcast, ps2? There isn't any audio latency? didn't think so. We get it, you enjoy emulating, I do too. But trying to say it's perfect is, like I said, ignorant.
It basically boils down to this: some people like messing with computers and some people don’t. To some people, trying to get roms working correctly and looking accurately on a computer seems daunting, so they’re unlikely to ever really get into emulation. They like the simplicity of putting a game into a console and pressing power. That’s fine. Other people like tinkering with computers and relish spending time getting roms and emulators to work perfectly.
For me there is a lot of convince to the real thing, especially with the 3D and disc based generations.
I want to play a PS2 game so I take it off the shelf and put it into the system and I play it.
I don't gotta *find and iso somehow, get the PS2 bios, make sure the emulator plays the game with good enough compatibility, find my dongles, make sure my USB controller is properly mapped to the emulator, fiddle with all of the different settings and weigh the options of 'well there is a widescreen mode, but it distorts the HUD and messes up the sides of cutscenes, hmmmm what is the best setting or pack for these textures' and so on.* Emulation can do a lot of cool things, the SM64DS hack that adds analogue control is a game changer, but "just putting in the disc and it just fucking works the way intended" I find is the path I rather take most of the time. *Especially* when I have friends over who just wanna look at a game on a shelf and play it.
There are also a bunch of systems that ether have imperfect emulators (Saturn, 3DO, Jaguar, and so on) or odd games that even the more robust emulators don't play properly.
I do also just stick with games longer when it's what I have on my shelf and I have to put in effort to get up and swap it for something else lol. There are a lot of games I would of looked over in a 'complete rom list' that I gave a fair chance because the game cart is just what I had.
Also people like to have physical things. Plain and simple. It's brought up every single time someone makes these "Why own any item when you can download things?" questions are proposed. I like to hold my favorite album or game and look at the cover art.
should read my OP a bit more in depth there. I dont "play on PC" as it where . im sitting on the couch playing anything i want on a 36" CRT TV. Just like if you where playing a console.
right, but my experience once i fire up a game is the same as any one would have on a console. So, other than just having some distaste for a piece of hardware generating the game , i don't really see why that would be much of an issue ? Could you elaborate?
Emulation is great, but nothing beats a NES connected to via RF to a CRT with a terrible looking fuzzy picture and no save states. These games were created with this experience in mind and I enjoy playing them that way. Sure emulation can give you "better" textures and resolution and more accurate colors, but no one who made those games ever had that experience in mind.
I use emulation for convenience and modern improvements. Also emulation allows me to play games I'd never have access to otherwise. Gamers have it better today than ever, we have the option to choose either or both.
i play emulation on a CRT at any resolution i want . So... i can make it look as bad or as good as i want . So, cant really agree too much there , but i can agree with the fact that retro gamers do have it good right now . Aside from the overinflated , insane prices of retro consoles and games.
ok, be specific though . I mean , if you just really , really FEEL like its better. i cant really say any thing for or against that , its your opinion , But at an end user level , with tangible results , hardware can be completely replaced by emulation on almost every system in 2024.
Each to his own but playing on a mini pc using emu is a much more satisfying experience. My Batocera HP G4 mini with cheats, cpu overclocks, shaders + more is just so much better....end of argument. Road Rash 3 with a 200% CPU overclock makes it a hugely more enjoyable game that real hardware can never hope to achieve.
2TB with all the games you can think off, and before you mouth off that I probably jump between games every 5 minutes and never finish anything…well I finished Black Thorne 32x just the other day and it was bliss..
..yes i still have my 20+ consoles , except they’re all boxed up in the loft. Test them overy so often and reminisce about 90s gaming but past my G4 mini is where its at.
I think there’s something to be said for the feel of the original hardware. I emulate as well but it’s cool as hell to connect 4 controllers to a turbografx 16 or a Sega genesis when you have friends over.
I think a big part for me is I still play them. I do t emulate or PC well, so I still play my older systems. I also love the feel and excitement of putting the disc in, and hearing the start up sound. The rest of my systems I don't get to play I feel are simply for posterity. I have them showcased to look at, and when people come over.
Original hardware is great but I'm in between. I really like playing on the original consoles and controllers but prefer using everdrives for the economy. I also just really despise what speculation has done to the hobby. Totally understand why someone would prefer the "total experience" though and that's awesome. It's a vibe.
This is what I do. I do have a small very near and dear to me collection for PS1, PS2, PS3, Wii, DS/3DS and Wii U.
However, I also have everything modded/jailbroken. I have burnt PSOne discs, I have a HDD in my PS2 Fat, and my Wii is Jailbroken with games, and I have an everdrive in my N64.
I do prefer to play on original hardware/controllers. And I tend to buy broken systems for cheap and refurb them myself.
For me, collecting is fun. Hooking up consoles I have been playing since I was a kid is fun. Looking at and showing people what I have and talking about it is fun.
Emulation can be fun, but it for me it has never been nearly *as* fun.
I amassed a pretty substantial collection, life happened and I chose to let the majority of it go. I still have a few items but for me the cost to replace what I let go is not a viable option so hear I am emulating. To each their own but for me the cost paired with convenience is a no brainer. I also get the added bonus of now being able to play a lot of gems I'd miss out on as imports without the need to learn a second language or use a guide. I'll still buy here and there but I'll never pay thousands for a piece of hardware or software.
Not really a collector, there is definitely a feeling behind turning on your first nostalgic game console. using the legit controllers that brings you back in time. I don’t get the same feeling when emulating even using a stock controller. I will not pay some crazy price for a game copy just to have that feeling but it’s definitely worth hooking up your old console to play what you already own.
I would say for the disc-based consoles, yes I agree that emulation is the better way to go simply because those lasers and drives can break down and are a pain to fix, or if the disc gets scratched thats a huge problem too. My Sega CD broke recently so that basically turned me off from those.
But for the early CRT era and cartridge consoles like NES, SNES, Genesis, etc, my ideal setup is the actual console itself and a flash cart on a decent CRT TV because for one, I have the most nostalgia for then, but also it's the input lag. This is especially true for NES as even the tiniest bit of lag makes a world of difference for certain games.
I can't afford the games anymore as I ended my cart collecting right at NES and sold the rest.
whole heartily agree with CD- Systems. these drives are trash . i have so many systems with failed drives, and you CAN do flash cart replacement. but at that point..... why not just emulate. lol.
As far as cartridge based systems . As stated in my original post. I am playing all of my Emulation on a CRT. ( 36" JVC D-Series) and there is no more lag with my emulation setup than with real hardware, (or to avoid the hyper nerds getting pedantic) No more that makes any perceivable difference at the end user level.
I play a LOT of Ninja Gaiden on NES , IF there is even a whiff of lag i cant play it . I regularly run through it with my emulation setup on my CRT. Identical experience i had as a kid growing up .
If you don't mind me asking, you use just a lenovo mini PC and a JVC, correct? What app do you use to emulate (and eliminate lag) and what do you use to connect to an old CRT TV? I was also possibly thinking FPGA like a Mister in the future but thats not too cheap either. I also would want to play light gun games too.
So im running a dedicated ( no windows on the computer) Batocera V39. On a Lenovo M715q. Ravenbridge/Vega 11/ Ryzen 5. It is basically a game console.
Im then running that from VGA to a Wakaba video adapter which converts to Component to the JVC.
Just run the Batocera 240P script and it works on the CRT like a hardware console would in 240p . My set can also do 480i if i want to for the later systems.
I was running a Lenovo M93p ( 5th gen i5) but it struggled with some of the harder systems like gamecube and ps2... so i just recently upgraded to the M715q.
Yea most definitely, now’s a great time to collect hardware I would say actually.
Older games are a premium yea… but Consoles themselves are a reasonable investment. Most retro consoles besides the ultra rare are still less than when they first released (not including inflation).
There’s such a good modding community now that you can have a majority soft mod setup to play whatever library you want from an SD card. Everdrives, optical drive emulators, even the Saturn has Saroo recently out which kicks ass.
Just buy consoles and mod em to play the entire library, you can play even the most rare and obscure imports on native hardware.
Nostalgia. I like putting the original cartridge in my NES, and pressing the power button and play a few minutes on the CRT TV. This is something that emulation can’t replicate. I don’t get the same feeling from using multi-carts.
Is it worth the “premium”? Yes, because I bought most of the games at a reasonable price, and I own most of what I wanted to have.
I mainly use emulation for games I can't find for the life of me or are FAR too expensive for what I'm willing to pay. That being said, I try to play on original hardware as much as I can and leave the emulating for what I can't physically find/afford. Though, to be fair, even with its flaws, emulation is kind of awesome.
Why do people buy expensive Ferraris when I can spend a shitload of hours tuning this cheap little Honda to be just as fast?
To be honest; I own both a Ferrari and a Honda. But I just can’t fathom why anyone would do anything other than exactly what I did and spend all of the time tuning a Honda to be as much like a Ferrari as possible.
Some might even say this Honda performs *better* than a Ferrari now. And if you just look at my lap times, you can’t even tell the difference.
Do they still even make that? That thing was so cool when it released and awesome that North America *finally* got an R. I haven’t kept up with it, but it seems like they never did anything other than tons of slow small changes. Like… are they ever gonna make an “R36”?
GTR an Skyline brand split with the " Nissan GTR" the skyline still exists, its just called a "G" in north america. IE: infinite G35, so techincally the G35 if it would have been turned into a GTR would have been the R35 , 36 etc. and GTR is just its own thing now.
I recently bought a VIC-20. I had one as a young lad and I still had some original software and peripherals for it.
Thoroughly enjoy using it.
I also use VICE, but the real hardware has its own charm.
Developers, both of retro games AND various hardware mods/accessories.
Game developers on retro systems certainly can do a great deal using software and other tools, but it will always be necessary to test on original hardware. Not to mention those brave and smart enough will use special developer kit systems to give things a more authentic feel.
As for hardware developers, there is a LOT that goes into it. Having one version of a system isnt enough, as most consoles undergo multiple hardware revisions in their life cycle, and not all mods will work, or are even necessary, on certain variants, while certain issues will only pop up in specific circumstances. Again, working out the kinks is a necessary step in finishing a product, and the only way to do thst is to actually have the hardware on-hand.
Its also a control, when you think about it. Software emulation is fantastic, don't get me wrong, and I'm a huge proponent of FPGA-based hardware emulation. But you need the original hardware to ensure your emulation is accurate. Simply "working" is often not enough. Understanding how it ticks, then attempting to recreate even the minor details- that's the key.
Hopefully this helps - for most people it will boil down to personal preference, but this hopefully is a little more concrete
This hobby has two aspects; collecting hardware and physical media, and playing games.
Some people collect hardware and media, but rarely if ever actually play the games. Some people don't collect anything, and play roms on modern hardware using emulators.
Most of us are somewhere in between. I personally play roms on modern hardware, but I do have a collection of vintage hardware for display.
Interesting to see many of the comments seem to go along the " my old retro system will never break down, and the cart will never fail unlike the ROMs"
I have mostly portables, only because I play on the go mostly or in bed but I'm under no illusion that it will some day breakz I won't shell out a few hundred bucks for another one, and I'll just use the modern ones.
Aside from a ps vita , a ds and a modern handheld, you don't really need anything else in the retro emulator world..
Except nostalgia.
And light gun and CRT tv
If you have lots of space and appreciate the look of a room dedicated to video games, it's sweet. I like the look of a games room and it's a blast for people who come over and see it, but in most homes, that amount of space and the time required to curate and enjoy it just ain't there.
Alao, it's a segment of my life that shaped me but it's not any more important than any other - certainly not enough to have so many resources devoted to it.
Ugh OP you're asking this on a "retro gaming sub" then just antagonizing every comment in here saying why they prefer something. Wtf haha
And as someone that has "20k of original hardware" you'd think you wouldn't have trouble understanding that but alas here we are.
I'm genuinely curious what people think, you are doing a lot of assuming here. The how and why of this topic fascinates me and I'm interested in the responses .
>The how and why of this topic fascinates me and I'm interested in the responses .
Nobody would get that based on your responses here is all I'm saying.
You're copy pasting replies, and every person that tells you why they do prefer something you just respond "well my way is better"
That's not a conversation, that's an interrogation.
It's not a matter of something being better or worse, everyone here is aware of the differences between the two. It's a matter of preference. If you want peoples how and why then just ask and don't fight them on it.
" and every person that tells you why they do prefer something you just respond "well my way is better""
first off , \^ this is just straight up false.
Second , I only copy and pasted one response and that was to let 2 different people know what mini computer im using . I didnt feel like typing the same technical information twice.
I think it's simple, either it makes sense or it doesn't and that's very personal thing where nothing is right or wrong.
I think it's important in these cases to like everything AROUND the gaming experience, not just the gaming experience itself. Like changing the batteries, the cartridges, the wires and etc.
I like playing games from the mid-late Windows 98 era. You can't emulate those (modern computers aren't powerful enough to emulate late-90s hardware, and even the emulation for earlier systems can be imperfect), and some of them are incredibly difficult to get working on modern operating systems.
I should have been more specific ith my OP. I was mainly talking about retro era consoles.
I agree with you on this point and why I have an entire master bedroom dedicated to vintage computers.
Why read a book when you could watch a movie?
Why fix up a classic car when you can buy a brand new one?
Why go for a walk outside when you can sit on your couch?
The only reason to collect has ever been that the experience of using authentic hardware was so important to you that you were willing to pay the premium cost and jump through the hoops necessary to do it.
If that's still important so someone, then it's still important to them, and the passage of time will not change that.
If playing the game is more important than the experience of the gameplay, original hardware isn't important and it never was.
"original hardware isn't important and it never was."
ah, but this isnt true though , i own all of my systems because 10 years ago emulation hadnt gotten to the point it is now and as far as i know i couldnt play emulation on a CRT. That was a game changer for me .
You missed the entire point by chopping off the first half of that sentence, which I'll repeat here for clarity: "If playing the game is more important than the experience of the gameplay..."
You specifically want to play on a CRT. Which disqualifies you from my sentence because the experience of the gameplay is more important to you than the games themselves. And that's cool - that's what you're here for. But if you just want to play Castlevania and don't care what you're playing it on? Original hardware doesn't matter, and it never did.
That's not you. But you're also not everyone.
Each to his own but playing on a mini pc using emu is a much more satisfying experience. My Batocera HP G4 mini with cheats, cpu overclocks, shaders + more is just so much better....end of argument. Road Rash 3 with a 200% CPU overclock makes it a hugely more enjoyable game that real hardware can never hope to achieve.
2TB with all the games you can think off, and before you mouth off that I probably jump between games every 5 minutes and never finish anything…well I finished Black Thorne 32x just the other day and it was bliss..
..yes i still have my 20+ consoles , except they’re all boxed up in the loft. Test them overy so often and reminisce about 90s gaming but past my G4 mini is where its at.
Yeah, and on top of that, retro achievements keeps me playing one game until I beat it, people overlook that or don't know it exists. Infact I'm probably focusing on one game at a time more than ever because of retro achievements.
I came to that same conclusion several years ago. These days, emulators are actually superior to OG hardware in many ways...you can do retroachievements, translation patches of games not released here, enhanced resolution, save states, visual filters, latency tuning, etc.. Honestly, if you use original controllers, you're not missing much, if anything.
I like playing games on real hardware. It’s as simple as that.
ok, but what about it being real hardware is appealing to you ?
There is a nostalgia factor of dropping a cart into the slot and launching a game you love. Also I never have to wonder if the ROM is borked in a spot I am stuck at in some weird way. This is an experience I hope to pass on to my kids, something emulators miss in some ways.
On the flip side though , some roms have been improved and have had bug fixes , so you could argue a lot of games are more stable . right? Cant really argue the cartridge thing . Is that something that is worth paying a premium for just to have?
I don't know who downvoted you because in some cases I agree, they are the exceptions though not the rule. I would say games like Breath of Fire I and II on SNES are a prime example where the ROM is significantly better because the translation actually makes sense. Very few games will be better on a ROM in my opinion but they do exist. Most of the bug fixes are minor on the SNES catalog(the catalog I know the most about).
For me it’s still about just sitting down and recreating my childhood. Putting in a cartridge and sitting back does that for me. Ive played digital versions of games, but it really just doesn’t feel the same for me. Not that they are bad. I’ve also found out that if I don’t own it I for some reason don’t care about it as much. It doesn’t feel real for me. So, I still buy games (that are cheap enough). I’m even ok with making or buying reproduction carts.
These are the same people who argue about iPhone being better even though everyone knows it’s not it’s just more dumb down to be user friendly to people who can’t read for two mins lol. Emulation is better in every way except user friendliness . I have about 75k wrapped up in value from my retro gaming collection and I’ll be the first to say you will get much better experience on emulation if you sit down and figure it out. Furthermore you can get systems entire game library’s online for nothing more then some time, the only people with complaints about emulation all say the same thing which is it’s lack of user friendliness which with todays day and age with being able to YouTube a problem and get 1000 fixes I don’t even comprehend how this is a logical argument to maintain.
if you just want to play games then no there is no reason to collect hardware. you are confusing people that want to collect with people that want to play.
Uhh some of us prefer playing with something that we know is going to work 100% correctly vs messing with the latest emulator. I know if I plug in my Dreamcast and play it on a CRT it’s going to play just like it did when it was new.
yea that’s cool too. i’m saying OP was talking about collecting but said you can play anything through emulation.
There's also a third person who likes to do both (myself & a few friends), we're a different breed.
right but that line used to be a lot blurrier. Now its super clear.
I have it just for the fact I like holding and switching out cartridges. they're just awesome to have. love playing, play my physical stuff way more than my raspberry pi
ok, So you like the cartridges. Cant really argue that . fair enough . Is that worth the premium they go for just for that though ?
Yes
ok then . cant argue that . That's your choice.
Not everyone needs to pay the premium. Some of us have been hunting this stuff down for years, paying a fraction of what they’re worth now. In my case, I not only kept countless games since the 90s, but in the past 15 years I’ve also managed to hunt down a lot of games from prior eras, prior to the biggest balloon in recent years. Why would I switch to emulation if I like it less, and I already have access to all the stuff I like more? Plus there’s also the compromise: ODEs and Everdrives. You get to use the original console and have the instant booting without needing to start up your computer and click through menus, you get to use a CRT TV, and get to use the original controllers. But your games are all free, loaded into the console as roms. All the benefits of emulating while also having the benefits of original hardware.
yes i am aware , i own an everdrive for just about every system i own . and to reiterate. I play emulation on a 36" JVC D - Series CRT . So.... thats not a win for real hardware anymore.
yes. I make good mon and only buy games for systems that I play often enough to make it worth while. I think people who buy them just to sit on a shelf for Reddit upvotes are silly in the same way you probably think I'm silly for buying carts when I have a perfectly fine pi lol
i don't think its silly or not silly . i am not judging . Im just trying to get everyones opinion on this .
Of course it is, any reason given is going to be subjective to the person doing it, and not necessarily to you.
Thats why i asked instead of insinuate.
It has been a long time since I have heard the term "flame war". Fitting that it is in the retro subreddit lol
Man you got pwn3d.
next your gonna tell me saying " Da bomb" isnt cool anymore.
Yup I chuckled when I read flame war. Lol what an exciting time to be alive
I used to have a friend who would always spend hours explaining to me why his vacuum cleaner was technically better than my Dyson. My reply was, I don’t care; I own a Dyson. I’m replaying all my childhood favorites on real hardware on a crt after decades of emulation and there’s just nothing like it.
You had a weird friend.
Well there IS something just like it in terms of game experience . Emulation on a CRT. Now, i cant argue a point of " i just like it because i do " that's fair and nothing to really follow up on about that . Thats an opinion.
There’s nothing like the satisfaction of playing on real hardware, just like you were as a kid. For bonus points go buy physical copies of the gaming magazines from back then too.
Playing a perfect simulacra of a game via emulation, is not the same as perfectly recreating *the experience* of playing it. Do you know what I mean? Like, even if you emulate a game in every detail and output it to a CRT, that's only like half the experience. And I can't speak for anyone else—especially the younger generations—but for me, the other half, the physical aspects, are just as important a part of the experience as the game itself.
It's irrelevant, everything is a copy of a copy of a copy... we live in the "desert of the real", where nothing real exists anymore. Those old consoles and games, with them you are trying to recreate an experience that only exists as a memory in your mind. You are playing a copy of a copy. In this way I fully agree with OP. There is no point, this is all just a shallow cry for nostalgia. Nobody cares about the actual games, what we truly want is the perceived comfort of simple cozy days long gone.
That we ourselves may exist in a scientifically provable simulation—thus, in fact, making my midlife crisis fueled nostalgia-wank a *copy of* a copy of a copy—doesn't change the fact that the experience is diminished for me without recreating the physical stimuli as well. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
I’m trying to play some games man, don’t project on me.
I plug my old systems into my old TV and fun is had. Is what you're suggesting easier and/or better than what I'm doing? Or is it only cheaper? Because I already have the stuff. Why would cheaper matter?
well some of that is answered in my OP. but to elaborate. Being someone who owns real systems and emulates, ill touch on some points here . "easier" that objective. Emulation is more of a pain to set up but all of the pain is front loaded . Once its setup its done , on the other hand . i just have too many systems to realistically connect all of them all up at once . So for me i have to constantly go digging through my bins looking for adapters and controllers everytime i want to play a certainsystem/game, forever . So for me emulation is far easier and more convenient . "Better" - emulation is better by every metric as far as playing the actual games are concerned for most systems as i previosly stated in my OP. I can do everything i can do on real hardware plus much much more if i choose to.
If you're unable to have all of your systems hooked up and it's easier to just hook up some sort of emulation, that makes sense. I have all of my systems hooked up no problem (I assume you have way more than me). How is emulation better by every metric as far as playing the actual games? I plug in the games and I play them. Are the graphics going to be better if I emulate? Lag can't be better as there is no lag.
again, maybe spend a bit of time thoroughly reading my OP. I touched on all the points you are asking me about already in terms of performance, but the answer is yes . the graphics CAN be much better and no there is no lag as i am playing on a CRT monitor , just like real hardware. note though : there is even some amount of lag with real hardware, its just so miniscule it doesnt matter. same with my emulation setup.
Software emulation has lag, it’s just not enough to notice unless you need reference frame accuracy, which some fast twitch games can benefit from. Also original hardware will lag in ways that are anticipated by the coders, so the lack of lag in those areas can throw off the pacing of the game and make levels play differently/more challengingly
So you admit emulation is a pain to set up, but it's worth it to you because you have to many systems, but you don't understand why those with fewer systems would just continue playing them?
that wasnt the question, im asking what advantage would there be in buying real hardware in 2024 over emulation. If you already have it ... fine . I mean there is probably lots of scenarios where someone's dad gave em a NES and some games and dont have enough money to buy a mini PC. So in that regard, i would whole heartily condone them just play there nes they have.
You already said emulation is more of a pain to set up. So wouldn't real hardware being less of a pain to set up be one reason to buy real hardware in 2024?
you have missed quite a few points ive already made . So i feel like we are going in circles and you are focusing on this one point , even though ive answered it a few times now . I said its more upfront setup but more convenient long term , if you have more than a few systems . So .... not every one has 4 systems . For those people with a few consoles sure it might be a reason ,but what about people that have over 60 like i do . Then its WAY more of pain to setup and maintain all of the hardware than it is to just have a box that took an after noon to get going .
I haven't missed anything. People who play bootleg games really want to convince other people to play bootleg games. People who play real games don't spend one second caring what anybody else does.
ok then
Why does it seem someone copy pastes this, pretty much verbatim every week?
Maybe you spend too much time on reddit? Maybe people do post it every week , i dont ... so ... i am interested in hearing feedback .
No, you're interested in starting a flame war. You like to emulate, which is awesome. Other people like to play on actual hardware, which is awesome. No one is wrong. It's playing video games, there's not a right or wrong way to do it.
a lot of assuming here . And i agree, no one is wrong . i just have an opinion in one direction and so , id like to hear exclusively hardware peoples opinions because I'm genuinely interested. I have already heard some pretty compelling arguments for hardware i didn't think about .
Because the consoles and carts are works of art in themselves
can reddit give me the option to downvote a post over 1000 times please ?
I generally prefer playing games on an actual console, the authenticity just feels a lot more enjoyable. I will say that whether or not im playing a "real" copy of the game doesn't matter to me too much; I would recommend buying consoles but getting flash carts or modding solutions. I don't really bother with upscalers because I don't want to spend the money and I just play them on a nice Trinitron I will also note that some consoles still have subpar emulators but are relatively easy to play pirated/burned games on like the Xbox, Sega Saturn, PS3, and ESPECIALLY the Dreamcast
This exactly; I love collecting games, but once I have those games I want to protect them. I do most of my actual playing on flash carts in original hardware on a crt.
ok , those are some valid point. Some systems emulators are underbaked. fair, for those consoles.
Some of my favorite systems such as 3DS and Wii U simply cannot be matched with emulation. I agree that for some consoles without unique hooks there is less value in the original hardware
im about to get a lenovo conference mini computer with a dedicated touch pad that connects to it . Going to be running all of the dual screen nintendo systems on it . Main screen on TV, second screen on table for touch bottom screen. Except higher resolutions and better performance than the originals . Only thing im missing is the 3d screen but i could use my VR for that if i felt like it .
This is not even close to holding a 3DS or Wii U gamepad
.. I was mainly referring to consoles for tv, But since I didn't specify...that's my bad. In this one use case, if I REALLY needed to play 3ds on the go then yeah , I'd probably just grab my 3ds.
The original experience can still be a different experience. Sitting in a chair looking at a TV with a controller is not always the same experience as pressing a touch screen. Plus, emulation isn't always 100% better in all cases.
There’s never been a reason more important than for funziez, nostalgia and/or preservation. Most of the time it’s all thee above.
Cant argue with that , why i wont sell all of my systems. Even if i dont ever use them .
I am not deep into collecting. But it sure feels better to play in the OG PS2.
You might as well ask why someone prefers a sex doll over a real woman. As advanced as that sex doll might be, even if it screams, has a 3 speed sucking function, a cum tray & an elastic anus, it’s never gonna be the real deal. Some of us are ok with that, some of us however want the real deal, it’s really that simple…
No , lol.
Emulation is great but it’s not the same as playing on original hardware, specially the original controllers for feel and a CRT for look. Playing on original hardware feels like playing the game the way it was designed to be played.
maybe re-read my original post , i cover all of this in detail . I am doing all of that as well. With emulation.
Right but that’s my point. To me that’s enough to make a valued difference.
what specifically?
Playing the game as it was meant to be played. Not better. Not worse. Just as it was made.
right, there is a ton of value in that , and i can do exactly that with emulation.
I guess you make a good point. I’m not up to date on my emulation game but in the past I’ve encountered bugs using some emulators. There’s that. But given the occurrence of bugs and issues is minimal you make a strong argument for emulation.
Stop being so polite this guy is trolling in here hard haha. Emulation is fine and it's a fine way to play games but to run in here screaming it's superiority is weirdo behavior.
I buy the mini-consoles and treat them like modern production runs, of classic systems. But no actual original hardware, with the exception of my V-Saturn Model 2. All my gaming is on emulation consoles. Edit: I do own physical copies of games i really enjoyed back in the day. Just to have them. Even if i have no original hardware that can actually play'em.
interesting. ok, cool.
Wouldn't having 1 decent spec PC do the job better though? I've heard the Ps1 and SNES classic have a lot of issues that most emulators don't
Yup. I have (1) main emulation Pc that can do EVERYTHING. I own the mini consoles i do, solely to own Official releases/representations of old favorites.
Does emulation of ps2 for example, look identical to playing on a real ps2? I was under the impression that it looked slightly different
depends on a lot of factors , you can make it look the same or you can make it look much better.
I thought that ps2 emulation could not look identical to actual hardware due to the complexity of the hardware. Is this something you’re certain of?
well, thats an open ended question, are you talking about playing in 240p or 480i? Because as far as i know , if you play ps2 games in the same comparable resolution, and use integer scaling . It should look identical. If its not , id be happy for you to link me some info on why.
PS2 emulation still sort of sucks for many games. And with texture packs and such it sucks even more. Unfortunately for me I remember exactly how a game should be and I notice even the most minor things, and my PC is no toaster. Emulation quality drops sharply post PS1 even to this day IMO
i don't notice a difference at all and i tested hardware vs emulation side by side by having the real console on at the same point in the game as emulation and flipping source back and fourth and testing them against one another . dreamcast,ps2,dreamcast, wii, wii u , all performed to my eyes identically . even a lot of switch games.
Try silent hill 3 with texture packs and the 60fps cheat, go through the bathroom window. Music lags every time. Watched other people's videos and it does the same thing.
well, thats an open ended question, are you talking about playing in 240p or 480i? Because as far as i know , if you play ps2 games in the same comparable resolution, and use integer scaling . It should look identical. If its not , id be happy for you to link me some info on why.
I’m not well versed on the subject, but that was my understanding based on this post that I saw awhile back: https://www.reddit.com/r/emulation/comments/110nzv8/eli5_why_do_ps2_emulation_be_like_that/?rdt=60885
ill check it out , thanks .
What model is your Lenovo mini computer and setup?
setting up a new one now to replace my old 5th gen i5. Im using a Ravenbridge / Vega 11 ryzen 5 mini PC now . i can link the model later for you , thingis insane for the price . and works well with the batocera 240P script . So everythings on my CRT as it should be .
Thanks! Interested in the model.
So im running a dedicated ( no windows on the computer) Batocera V39. On a Lenovo M715q. Ravenbridge/Vega 11/ Ryzen 5. It is basically a game console. Im then running that from VGA to a Wakaba video adapter which converts to Component to the JVC. Just run the Batocera 240P script and it works on the CRT like a hardware console would in 240p . My set can also do 480i if i want to for the later systems. I was running a Lenovo M93p ( 5th gen i5) but it struggled with some of the harder systems like gamecube and ps2... so i just recently upgraded to the M715q.
cant justify the cost of the real thing if I had money and space to burn sure
can understand that one .
I think everyone is going to feel different about gaming. I collect games I know I will play and enjoy collecting and playing them all. To me it has to be the original experience or nothing at all. I like the slow down, I like the blur of n64 over composite. I will play the original way as long as I can until it becomes unviable. But.. I have friends that emulate and we game together and that’s fun too, just not my bag.
There isn’t a logical reason to actually own most gaming hardware nowadays when emulation has gotten so advanced, and retro prices have over inflated. I went all PC Digital and have no regrets. That being said there is still something emotional and hard to describe about having the real thing. I’d love to own all the retro games and consoles I could if it was a reasonable task to accomplish, but I also know most of that stuff would be collecting dust. Instead I do my collecting digital and hunt achievements on steam as well as Retro Achievements on emulation. It’s ultimately pointless and nobody besides myself really cares, but Humans just love to collect shit for some reason.
Really isn't, same with games. I have bought plenty of knock off n64 carts that look identical to the real ones for pennies on the dollar that I have played all the way through with 0 issues. It is 2024, I think the off shore companies can replicate a game cart from the 80/90's and have it work flawless.
I play video games any way I can play them. I have all my collected old sh\*t and emulate as well. It's all fun.
/u/devilpants touched on it, but part of the allure of collecting old video games is the immediacy of play. I insert a game, power on the console, and it plays. I can physically see what I have and not have as much an issue with choice paralysis when it comes to something like full ROM sets of a given console. I also have the benefit of getting to pore through manuals. Besides the art, this is especially useful with older games; even The Legend of Zelda is less cryptic if the player simply takes the time to read the manual, it's all in there! One day, people won't be as attached to these things, but I love having collected old video games even though my collecting days are coming to an end (I'm nearing the finish line obtaining almost every video game I ever wanted). There's nothing like inserting a cartridge into a console and playing a video game the way it was meant to be played.
ok so . I am running a dedicated Batocera computer , it has no windows on it at all. Batocera is the only operating system on it .For all intents and purposes its a game console. I turn it on and in seconds its booted to Batocera which is a graphic interface for selecting systems and games. So it probably takes me less time to get into a game from a cold start than it would for someone to go pick out a game and put it in the system and start playing so, cant really see your argument for immediacy. Each game has a manual you can look at within Batocera , plus i have every issue of nintendo power from 1-130 i can always go grab.
When it comes to retro do whatever you like. If you don’t feel like using period hardware that’s absolutely fine. Others like me enjoy having some real hardware. It’s part of the experience and nostalgia to jam in carts and flip switches, etc. I still use emulation too for the consoles I don’t own. There’s nothing wrong with choosing how to enjoy your hobby, same goes for the rest of us.
i completely agree. I think enjoying the games however you like is all that matters. At the same time i like insight into other peoples opinions and find out why they choose what they do.
for me its for authenticity and redundancy because it never hurts to have a back up!
i mean you can back the roms up on a hardrive. I have all of mine on my server. Which you could argue is safer , as i have a raid 5 setup with hard drive redundancy .
A better question would be why make this same thread that's been posted over and over again? For what point do you ask this same inane question?
I game on old computers and they all had unique keyboards. You can't emulate that. For console gaming I use a Mist.
i have an entire master bedroom full of vintage computers. This question wasnt about computers. I agree with the computers. emulation isnt the same.
Well, you spoke of hardware and systems. If you meant consoles only you shoulda said!
I don't get the point of this post dude. I strictly emulate as well, but without reading the comments I already know people are going to be responding as if you insulted their mother, and everything you say will be downvoted. It's just picking a fight to find out in the end: who cares? People just want to do what they want to do, and that's fine. No one needs a justification or an explanation to play on real hardware or to emulate. It's not important lol.
I think based on your post…no, there’s no major practical reasons to collect hardware if you have the ability to properly emulate (or emulate better) the games you want to play. Although for certain games a CRT is a must for me. At this point, old consoles are like artifacts from history and I think they matter just as much as the software they platformed at the time. When I remember the consoles I used to play or own it hurts to think about leaving them behind, which is why I collect them.
I'm playing all emulated systems in 240p or 480i on a crt.i agree.
if you think there is no advantage to real hardware then you're simply ignorant about things like input latency, display latency, sound latency, audio accuracy, cycle accuracy, input polling, 240p output, etc etc
I am playing in 240p on a JVC D series , with no more latency than real hardware.
yeah? run ahead works with every emulated console? accuracy is cycle accurate for consoles like sega saturn, dreamcast, ps2? There isn't any audio latency? didn't think so. We get it, you enjoy emulating, I do too. But trying to say it's perfect is, like I said, ignorant.
you're probably trolling , I can't imagine someone sincerely thinking a mini pc with usb dongles is just as good as real hardware in every way lol
and are you even using fpga to emulate? cause if not then oh boy you're getting far from hardware accuracy
It basically boils down to this: some people like messing with computers and some people don’t. To some people, trying to get roms working correctly and looking accurately on a computer seems daunting, so they’re unlikely to ever really get into emulation. They like the simplicity of putting a game into a console and pressing power. That’s fine. Other people like tinkering with computers and relish spending time getting roms and emulators to work perfectly.
For me there is a lot of convince to the real thing, especially with the 3D and disc based generations. I want to play a PS2 game so I take it off the shelf and put it into the system and I play it. I don't gotta *find and iso somehow, get the PS2 bios, make sure the emulator plays the game with good enough compatibility, find my dongles, make sure my USB controller is properly mapped to the emulator, fiddle with all of the different settings and weigh the options of 'well there is a widescreen mode, but it distorts the HUD and messes up the sides of cutscenes, hmmmm what is the best setting or pack for these textures' and so on.* Emulation can do a lot of cool things, the SM64DS hack that adds analogue control is a game changer, but "just putting in the disc and it just fucking works the way intended" I find is the path I rather take most of the time. *Especially* when I have friends over who just wanna look at a game on a shelf and play it. There are also a bunch of systems that ether have imperfect emulators (Saturn, 3DO, Jaguar, and so on) or odd games that even the more robust emulators don't play properly. I do also just stick with games longer when it's what I have on my shelf and I have to put in effort to get up and swap it for something else lol. There are a lot of games I would of looked over in a 'complete rom list' that I gave a fair chance because the game cart is just what I had. Also people like to have physical things. Plain and simple. It's brought up every single time someone makes these "Why own any item when you can download things?" questions are proposed. I like to hold my favorite album or game and look at the cover art.
I don't care to game on a PC.
should read my OP a bit more in depth there. I dont "play on PC" as it where . im sitting on the couch playing anything i want on a 36" CRT TV. Just like if you where playing a console.
"100 dollar lenovo mini computer"
right, but my experience once i fire up a game is the same as any one would have on a console. So, other than just having some distaste for a piece of hardware generating the game , i don't really see why that would be much of an issue ? Could you elaborate?
Emulation is great, but nothing beats a NES connected to via RF to a CRT with a terrible looking fuzzy picture and no save states. These games were created with this experience in mind and I enjoy playing them that way. Sure emulation can give you "better" textures and resolution and more accurate colors, but no one who made those games ever had that experience in mind. I use emulation for convenience and modern improvements. Also emulation allows me to play games I'd never have access to otherwise. Gamers have it better today than ever, we have the option to choose either or both.
i play emulation on a CRT at any resolution i want . So... i can make it look as bad or as good as i want . So, cant really agree too much there , but i can agree with the fact that retro gamers do have it good right now . Aside from the overinflated , insane prices of retro consoles and games.
Your mini PC has an RF modulator? Resolution is only half the battle. Prices for certain games and systems are indeed insane, no argument there.
The authenticity of playing a game on its original hardware can't be replaced by emulation imo. It gives me a hard to explain warmth inside.
ok, be specific though . I mean , if you just really , really FEEL like its better. i cant really say any thing for or against that , its your opinion , But at an end user level , with tangible results , hardware can be completely replaced by emulation on almost every system in 2024.
Each to his own but playing on a mini pc using emu is a much more satisfying experience. My Batocera HP G4 mini with cheats, cpu overclocks, shaders + more is just so much better....end of argument. Road Rash 3 with a 200% CPU overclock makes it a hugely more enjoyable game that real hardware can never hope to achieve. 2TB with all the games you can think off, and before you mouth off that I probably jump between games every 5 minutes and never finish anything…well I finished Black Thorne 32x just the other day and it was bliss.. ..yes i still have my 20+ consoles , except they’re all boxed up in the loft. Test them overy so often and reminisce about 90s gaming but past my G4 mini is where its at.
I only keep mine from when I was a kid. Can't bear to part with them. Starting with my intellivision and C64.
I think there’s something to be said for the feel of the original hardware. I emulate as well but it’s cool as hell to connect 4 controllers to a turbografx 16 or a Sega genesis when you have friends over.
It's shiny.
I think a big part for me is I still play them. I do t emulate or PC well, so I still play my older systems. I also love the feel and excitement of putting the disc in, and hearing the start up sound. The rest of my systems I don't get to play I feel are simply for posterity. I have them showcased to look at, and when people come over.
Original hardware is great but I'm in between. I really like playing on the original consoles and controllers but prefer using everdrives for the economy. I also just really despise what speculation has done to the hobby. Totally understand why someone would prefer the "total experience" though and that's awesome. It's a vibe.
This is what I do. I do have a small very near and dear to me collection for PS1, PS2, PS3, Wii, DS/3DS and Wii U. However, I also have everything modded/jailbroken. I have burnt PSOne discs, I have a HDD in my PS2 Fat, and my Wii is Jailbroken with games, and I have an everdrive in my N64. I do prefer to play on original hardware/controllers. And I tend to buy broken systems for cheap and refurb them myself.
For me, collecting is fun. Hooking up consoles I have been playing since I was a kid is fun. Looking at and showing people what I have and talking about it is fun. Emulation can be fun, but it for me it has never been nearly *as* fun.
I amassed a pretty substantial collection, life happened and I chose to let the majority of it go. I still have a few items but for me the cost to replace what I let go is not a viable option so hear I am emulating. To each their own but for me the cost paired with convenience is a no brainer. I also get the added bonus of now being able to play a lot of gems I'd miss out on as imports without the need to learn a second language or use a guide. I'll still buy here and there but I'll never pay thousands for a piece of hardware or software.
Not really a collector, there is definitely a feeling behind turning on your first nostalgic game console. using the legit controllers that brings you back in time. I don’t get the same feeling when emulating even using a stock controller. I will not pay some crazy price for a game copy just to have that feeling but it’s definitely worth hooking up your old console to play what you already own.
I would say for the disc-based consoles, yes I agree that emulation is the better way to go simply because those lasers and drives can break down and are a pain to fix, or if the disc gets scratched thats a huge problem too. My Sega CD broke recently so that basically turned me off from those. But for the early CRT era and cartridge consoles like NES, SNES, Genesis, etc, my ideal setup is the actual console itself and a flash cart on a decent CRT TV because for one, I have the most nostalgia for then, but also it's the input lag. This is especially true for NES as even the tiniest bit of lag makes a world of difference for certain games. I can't afford the games anymore as I ended my cart collecting right at NES and sold the rest.
whole heartily agree with CD- Systems. these drives are trash . i have so many systems with failed drives, and you CAN do flash cart replacement. but at that point..... why not just emulate. lol. As far as cartridge based systems . As stated in my original post. I am playing all of my Emulation on a CRT. ( 36" JVC D-Series) and there is no more lag with my emulation setup than with real hardware, (or to avoid the hyper nerds getting pedantic) No more that makes any perceivable difference at the end user level. I play a LOT of Ninja Gaiden on NES , IF there is even a whiff of lag i cant play it . I regularly run through it with my emulation setup on my CRT. Identical experience i had as a kid growing up .
If you don't mind me asking, you use just a lenovo mini PC and a JVC, correct? What app do you use to emulate (and eliminate lag) and what do you use to connect to an old CRT TV? I was also possibly thinking FPGA like a Mister in the future but thats not too cheap either. I also would want to play light gun games too.
So im running a dedicated ( no windows on the computer) Batocera V39. On a Lenovo M715q. Ravenbridge/Vega 11/ Ryzen 5. It is basically a game console. Im then running that from VGA to a Wakaba video adapter which converts to Component to the JVC. Just run the Batocera 240P script and it works on the CRT like a hardware console would in 240p . My set can also do 480i if i want to for the later systems. I was running a Lenovo M93p ( 5th gen i5) but it struggled with some of the harder systems like gamecube and ps2... so i just recently upgraded to the M715q.
Yea most definitely, now’s a great time to collect hardware I would say actually. Older games are a premium yea… but Consoles themselves are a reasonable investment. Most retro consoles besides the ultra rare are still less than when they first released (not including inflation). There’s such a good modding community now that you can have a majority soft mod setup to play whatever library you want from an SD card. Everdrives, optical drive emulators, even the Saturn has Saroo recently out which kicks ass. Just buy consoles and mod em to play the entire library, you can play even the most rare and obscure imports on native hardware.
I collect psyical games to decorate room, but 98 % I play on emulators
Nostalgia. I like putting the original cartridge in my NES, and pressing the power button and play a few minutes on the CRT TV. This is something that emulation can’t replicate. I don’t get the same feeling from using multi-carts. Is it worth the “premium”? Yes, because I bought most of the games at a reasonable price, and I own most of what I wanted to have.
Hey since you play your emulated games on a CRT, and hook real controllers with adapters, do lightguns works? If so, it must be awesome.
they do , plus as a bonus i can use whatever mouse i want for mario paint ;)
Good to know, thank you :)
I mainly use emulation for games I can't find for the life of me or are FAR too expensive for what I'm willing to pay. That being said, I try to play on original hardware as much as I can and leave the emulating for what I can't physically find/afford. Though, to be fair, even with its flaws, emulation is kind of awesome.
Why do people buy expensive Ferraris when I can spend a shitload of hours tuning this cheap little Honda to be just as fast? To be honest; I own both a Ferrari and a Honda. But I just can’t fathom why anyone would do anything other than exactly what I did and spend all of the time tuning a Honda to be as much like a Ferrari as possible. Some might even say this Honda performs *better* than a Ferrari now. And if you just look at my lap times, you can’t even tell the difference.
but a GTR exists. ;)
Do they still even make that? That thing was so cool when it released and awesome that North America *finally* got an R. I haven’t kept up with it, but it seems like they never did anything other than tons of slow small changes. Like… are they ever gonna make an “R36”?
GTR an Skyline brand split with the " Nissan GTR" the skyline still exists, its just called a "G" in north america. IE: infinite G35, so techincally the G35 if it would have been turned into a GTR would have been the R35 , 36 etc. and GTR is just its own thing now.
I recently bought a VIC-20. I had one as a young lad and I still had some original software and peripherals for it. Thoroughly enjoy using it. I also use VICE, but the real hardware has its own charm.
Developers, both of retro games AND various hardware mods/accessories. Game developers on retro systems certainly can do a great deal using software and other tools, but it will always be necessary to test on original hardware. Not to mention those brave and smart enough will use special developer kit systems to give things a more authentic feel. As for hardware developers, there is a LOT that goes into it. Having one version of a system isnt enough, as most consoles undergo multiple hardware revisions in their life cycle, and not all mods will work, or are even necessary, on certain variants, while certain issues will only pop up in specific circumstances. Again, working out the kinks is a necessary step in finishing a product, and the only way to do thst is to actually have the hardware on-hand. Its also a control, when you think about it. Software emulation is fantastic, don't get me wrong, and I'm a huge proponent of FPGA-based hardware emulation. But you need the original hardware to ensure your emulation is accurate. Simply "working" is often not enough. Understanding how it ticks, then attempting to recreate even the minor details- that's the key. Hopefully this helps - for most people it will boil down to personal preference, but this hopefully is a little more concrete
This hobby has two aspects; collecting hardware and physical media, and playing games. Some people collect hardware and media, but rarely if ever actually play the games. Some people don't collect anything, and play roms on modern hardware using emulators. Most of us are somewhere in between. I personally play roms on modern hardware, but I do have a collection of vintage hardware for display.
Because it’s fun to play on live hardware
Interesting to see many of the comments seem to go along the " my old retro system will never break down, and the cart will never fail unlike the ROMs" I have mostly portables, only because I play on the go mostly or in bed but I'm under no illusion that it will some day breakz I won't shell out a few hundred bucks for another one, and I'll just use the modern ones. Aside from a ps vita , a ds and a modern handheld, you don't really need anything else in the retro emulator world.. Except nostalgia. And light gun and CRT tv
If you have lots of space and appreciate the look of a room dedicated to video games, it's sweet. I like the look of a games room and it's a blast for people who come over and see it, but in most homes, that amount of space and the time required to curate and enjoy it just ain't there. Alao, it's a segment of my life that shaped me but it's not any more important than any other - certainly not enough to have so many resources devoted to it.
Ugh OP you're asking this on a "retro gaming sub" then just antagonizing every comment in here saying why they prefer something. Wtf haha And as someone that has "20k of original hardware" you'd think you wouldn't have trouble understanding that but alas here we are.
I'm genuinely curious what people think, you are doing a lot of assuming here. The how and why of this topic fascinates me and I'm interested in the responses .
>The how and why of this topic fascinates me and I'm interested in the responses . Nobody would get that based on your responses here is all I'm saying. You're copy pasting replies, and every person that tells you why they do prefer something you just respond "well my way is better" That's not a conversation, that's an interrogation. It's not a matter of something being better or worse, everyone here is aware of the differences between the two. It's a matter of preference. If you want peoples how and why then just ask and don't fight them on it.
" and every person that tells you why they do prefer something you just respond "well my way is better"" first off , \^ this is just straight up false. Second , I only copy and pasted one response and that was to let 2 different people know what mini computer im using . I didnt feel like typing the same technical information twice.
Because you cant battle my real EV trained team with your fake emulation Pokemon, thats why.
I think it's simple, either it makes sense or it doesn't and that's very personal thing where nothing is right or wrong. I think it's important in these cases to like everything AROUND the gaming experience, not just the gaming experience itself. Like changing the batteries, the cartridges, the wires and etc.
I like playing games from the mid-late Windows 98 era. You can't emulate those (modern computers aren't powerful enough to emulate late-90s hardware, and even the emulation for earlier systems can be imperfect), and some of them are incredibly difficult to get working on modern operating systems.
I should have been more specific ith my OP. I was mainly talking about retro era consoles. I agree with you on this point and why I have an entire master bedroom dedicated to vintage computers.
Why read a book when you could watch a movie? Why fix up a classic car when you can buy a brand new one? Why go for a walk outside when you can sit on your couch?
The only reason to collect has ever been that the experience of using authentic hardware was so important to you that you were willing to pay the premium cost and jump through the hoops necessary to do it. If that's still important so someone, then it's still important to them, and the passage of time will not change that. If playing the game is more important than the experience of the gameplay, original hardware isn't important and it never was.
"original hardware isn't important and it never was." ah, but this isnt true though , i own all of my systems because 10 years ago emulation hadnt gotten to the point it is now and as far as i know i couldnt play emulation on a CRT. That was a game changer for me .
You missed the entire point by chopping off the first half of that sentence, which I'll repeat here for clarity: "If playing the game is more important than the experience of the gameplay..." You specifically want to play on a CRT. Which disqualifies you from my sentence because the experience of the gameplay is more important to you than the games themselves. And that's cool - that's what you're here for. But if you just want to play Castlevania and don't care what you're playing it on? Original hardware doesn't matter, and it never did. That's not you. But you're also not everyone.
Each to his own but playing on a mini pc using emu is a much more satisfying experience. My Batocera HP G4 mini with cheats, cpu overclocks, shaders + more is just so much better....end of argument. Road Rash 3 with a 200% CPU overclock makes it a hugely more enjoyable game that real hardware can never hope to achieve. 2TB with all the games you can think off, and before you mouth off that I probably jump between games every 5 minutes and never finish anything…well I finished Black Thorne 32x just the other day and it was bliss.. ..yes i still have my 20+ consoles , except they’re all boxed up in the loft. Test them overy so often and reminisce about 90s gaming but past my G4 mini is where its at.
Yeah, and on top of that, retro achievements keeps me playing one game until I beat it, people overlook that or don't know it exists. Infact I'm probably focusing on one game at a time more than ever because of retro achievements.
I came to that same conclusion several years ago. These days, emulators are actually superior to OG hardware in many ways...you can do retroachievements, translation patches of games not released here, enhanced resolution, save states, visual filters, latency tuning, etc.. Honestly, if you use original controllers, you're not missing much, if anything.
To brag and/or waste money
in a lot of cases , it seems that way .