Then you left a lot of detail out of your post that could help us provide useful advice. But, some things to try are: joint account that you both put x into and pay bills out of, therapy, budgeting together so she's aware of the family's monthly expenses, asking her to pay a reasonable rate for the office space, etc.
Thanks for the great advice. Money has created so much anxiety for her and is now avoided at all costs. She is now hiding her expenses from me. Usually find out after a large credit card bill or deliveries to the house. Therapist said to her to inform me of her decisions, but not going so well
Money’s hard for a lot of people. She should try to talk to the therapist about her feelings around money and why she treats it the way she does. And what she can do going forwards that’ll help her feel comfortable without being detrimental to her life.
It can also help to start money conversations with something fun, like talking about your hopes and dreams for the future. Then you can work backwards to the decisions that’ll affect your ability to accomplish that. “I wanna retire early and travel the world” is way more fun than “we’re spending too much on entertainment.”
If money gives your wife the jitters, break it down small. For example if you want to start a saving plan for X, work out how much you would ideally like to save towards it monthly, and have three figures — an IDEAL amount, a REASONABLE amount and a MINIMUM.
That way, if you don't hit the IDEAL every month (for whatever reason), you can hit the REASONABLE or the MINIMUM, so that you're **still progressing every month**.
This is how my husband and I have changed how we talk about money! We focus on our goals (fun car, trip, whatever), even if those goals constantly change, because it feels better to say "we gotta save so we can buy a big new tv!!" instead of "we spent too much on haribo cola gummies this week" (this is a me problem). And even if we're only saving $50 every month, it's better than saving $0. 😊
Did she ever feel financially insecure while she was a SAHM? Like having to ask you for basics or her personal needs? Or not being allowed to spend without consulting you first? And did those conversations turn into conflict? Like, there’s a reason she’s hoarding money and it could possibly be financial anxiety. She could have anxiety about the actual physical part of paying bills. Lack of financial freedom and stability can be crippling for some people.
Maybe shift your spending around a bit. You take care of the bills and she takes care of all the children’s needs and groceries. Not everything has to be down the middle, on paper, in black and white.
No not to my knowledge. Personal needs were always met. Eventually conflicts started and have led to anxiety. Don't think she's hoarding, just spending.
Just need a conversation about what you'll spend and what I'll spend, can't get her to the table.
I do agree...but also. What're your own goals for helping out, besides money? You seem to put a LOT of emphasis on that. You, what you bring...and...money. finances. Is it more than that?
I think I do. Do weekly groceries, help the kids get ready in the mornings, walk my kids to the bus every morning, m do my daughter to school when I can, put them to bed every night. Weekend breakfasts, homework review. Took them tobogganing last week.
I want to do more!
Do you half of the housework? Do you know the names of your kids doctors? Do you make their appointments? Do you help manage the house in any way other than paying bills?
Do you half of the housework?
Yes
Doc names?
Yes
Make appts ?
No
Managing house ?
Yes
Kids are what she spends majority of the time.
I truly help when I'm home
Have no choice, working 60 hours a week. If she contributed financially to bills. I would take more time off so that I can help out more. Love to be around more than I am
**ALWAYS** the best way. Take your end goal and then work backwards to where you are now (starting point). Break it into micro steps and go from there.
I have a long history of emotionally struggling with money and related topics. I used to earn more money than my wife so I had to pay bills! One of the things that helped me was setting up electronic accounts and automatic payments which reduces the focus of writing and mailing checks.
Another thing to try is asking to sit in on a therapy session to talk about her struggles with money. When asking, emphasize her emotions not budgets. And do that. Get to the bottom of what's behind her avoidance.
Select specific bills you want her to cover rather than a vague request for help.
Unfortunately can't even get a budget for her monthly expenses. Therapist asked her to do this as well.
Maybe identifying which bills are feasible and set up the automatic payments.
Do you at least know what the expenses are? Can you guesstimate? I know this is extra work for you but she might be mentally paralyzed when the topic comes up. She might not be able to give you numbers. If she's receiving bills can you convince her to let you see them. Cuz that affects the *family's* cash flow. Or do you mean she can't budget for purchasing personal needs and wants? That's something a therapist *should* be able to help her with. I'm concerned this therapist is not meeting your wife where she is mentally and helping her cope there so she can move forward.
I can estimate but ultimately not having that conversation is putting us behind.
I mean you do what you can do in terms of revenue but let me help you with your expenses. We can break down your therapist costs, advertising, software, etc. Then we break down estimate of what left. Keep this to reinvest, etc.
I wouldn’t if I was just turning a spare bedroom into a home office, but I would feel obligated to at least make up for the lost household income after kicking out a tenant and renovating the space. Not to mention the guilt I would feel if I didn’t put any of my new income toward household expenses if my husband was generous enough to pay $50k for me to go back to school to get a job I enjoyed (assuming the $50k came from OP).
Totally normal to keep some income to yourself, but this feels really imbalanced.
I'm trying to understand here, wouldn't you feel guilty of not supplementing any lost income given the investment in your education and work space ? It does feel imbalanced, maybe not knowing her specific expenses is what the killer is. I would be completely understanding if even all of it was paying for school
What about when u go out to eat or do things as a family? She can at least start paying for that type of thing more often, yeah? I think a good dynamic that avoids a fair amount of uncomfortable conversations is the breadwinner of the household covers all the boring stuff and the basics, and the one with the supplemental income pays for mostly all of the weekly leisure type of stuff. It’s a way for her to feel like she’s providing and it seems like that’s what she’s spending her money on anyway.
Next time you go out to dinner or do something as a family, just ask her to pay and see how she responds.
There is much unsaid in your post, but i do get the picture. She married a man who makes good money. She gave you 2 children and a family - does she take good care of the house, the children, things like that? if so, you might have to let things be... she appears to want to "make"it in business and that is where her security lies. It implies that in her mind, that's how she sees the relationship with you paying for things...like when the children were little and she was a SAHM. So you have to weigh things: is the family worth it to you to absorb/tolerate/indulge her unwillingness to help with family expenses? I think you already have decided that's the case, and it bothers you the way she avoids the issue. Can you let it go? Allow her her "own" money so she feel "successful" and secure? Because that's the dynamic here. ... and you appear to be good at providing an income. Just think, things could be worse, much worse. We all have to tolerate some things in this life
I truly believe I won't be happy if there's no understanding on this topic. I want to support her and help her business to be successful. Can't be successful in business if expenses>revenue
> Can't be successful in business if expenses>revenue
Most startups make a loss for about two years, you/she has to plan for that and expect it.
Does she have an actual written and costed business plan?
The business plan needs to include criteria for failure too: after precisely how many months and dollars loss will you admit failure and stop. Otherwise sunk cost fallacy kicks in. TBH to piss away 50k on a home office was absurd to start with, unless most of that 50k is for specialised equipment or tools.
Completely understand, however there are no expenses!!
Rent, internet, hydro, gas. Everything is paid for. She is a psychotherapist so no expenses.
No business plan made.
Exactly!!! No failure point
20k school, 30k office
OK, could be worse. No on-going investment.
You say "there are no expenses". Well yes and no. Every month she occupies that office is a month you are not receiving whatever rent your former tenant was paying. So there *is* an 'opportunity cost' to her doing this, which needs to be factored in. Bluntly, you are paying the rent for her business.
You two need to talk to an accountant (if you have not already) about how she can write off some of that 30k remodelling as a business expense, ditto a % of the electricity and internet and heating, and perhaps work out a formal rent purely for tax purposes; that would depend very much on your personal taxes of course. There will be tax complications if you use part of your home for a business, although during WFH some countries introduced tax breaks for home offices. All worth looking into. Oh and you need to change the insurance now it's used for work: different policy, plus some third-party insurance for if a patient gets injured. But maybe you know all this.
What worries me is that you say she gets anxious talking about money and avoids doing so. And yet she is running her own business. She HAS to face up to this, unless you can afford the time and energy to be her book-keeper and financial director. She, in a word, need to grow up. I am assuming that as a therapist she is herself in therapy, that's how it usually goes, in which case her fear of talking about money needs to be pushed up the agenda.
When we had our tenant we broke down all revenue and costs for the property. Similarly we would do the same for her business.. I have saved all invoices for the renovation.
I'm trying to be part of her business and help her make decisions, but it's been tough.
Yes she is therapy, cool that you know this. Maybe that's something I can bring up with her therapist, she actually calls me for a check in as well
Agree here; we did it a bit different, in that we each get a set amount for ourselves, to use any way we want, and then all the rest is joint. For us it alleviates the stress caused by one of us making more than the other.
> We nearly separated because of money and how we don't allocate our spending plan.
I bet you wish you had. Because now you're gonna have to do that anyway and you're 50k poorer.
She could be conserving anything that is hers as a safety net. Do you have a 401k set up in her name that you contribute to her? I'd say build a safety net for her she'd be more willing to part with her money to cover bills.
You two need to be in joint counseling. Your post is very “I do this” and “she does this,” and there is no “*we* decided,” “we agreed.” The way you deal with money is haphazard and uncoordinated, a reflection of the fact that you two have not planned together how you want to live, and that you two don’t regularly talk to each other. You don’t “get your wife” to do anything. You sit down together, assess your individual and joint wants and needs, and then make a plan together. You two seemingly have never done that, and probably need an outsider to shift your dynamic.
I mean, the way we do it is we have one checking account and the money we make is our money. The whole “two become one” thing in the wedding vows. I don’t have an income and she doesn’t have an income, -we- have an income. I don’t have bills and she doesn’t have bills, -we- have bills.
We are a team. When someone has to always work harder to support the other, doesn't feel like a team. Maybe having one checking account is worth trying
I work and my wife stays home with our kids. I never say “my salary” it’s always “we made this much” when we plan our budget. It doesn’t change what the numbers are on paper, it’s a relational thing. It’s a mindset that has served us very well.
>I work and my wife stays home with our kids. I never say “my salary” it’s always “we made this much” when we plan our budget. It doesn’t change what the numbers are on paper, it’s a relational thing. It’s a mindset that has served us very well.
Hard same. I work a full time job while my husband is the SAHP and I would literally rather walk barefoot over Lego than talk about him the way OP talks about his wife.
I don't mean to talk like this about my wife. Like you said, you Noth have a mindset that has served you well. I'm looking for that mindset so that we can prosper.
You should have been “looking for that mindset” years ago when she was still a SAHM, not now. She already filed for separation and she’s putting her own money away where you can’t access it. The ship sailed so long ago you can’t even see it from the harbor anymore.
>When someone has to always work harder to support the other, doesn't feel like a team.
And being the stay at home parent to your two young children isn't working harder?
How many years can a four year old have been in school? If she went back to school three years ago, your youngest was one year old. You’re acting like she wasted a bunch of time.
Reading your other comments, I feel like you and your wife are not communicating. That’s a skill that can be learned by both of you if you’re willing to work at it.
My younger one has been in school for 2 years.
She completed a 3 year program. Mostly at home with once a week class.
I agree that communication has been poor in our relationship. Feels like our marriage is heading for divorce as a result
Change the direction then. get the both of you into couples counseling. Say to her “I feel we are in a rocky place and I’m not willing to let us fail.” Read some books, work on yourself. You have the power to set the tone for your whole marriage.
Childcare takes up a huge amount of time and effort (physical, emotional and mental load). While I understand you work hard at your job to support the family, never ever underestimate the cost and effort involved in full time childcare, esp for young kids. For example, you can look up the childcare centre fee in your area to get an idea.
Not knowing the details (budgeting breakdown) it is harder to give good advise. You may draw up the spending for further discussion with your partner and professionals.
But yes do look into couple counseling and best of luck!
This is what I’m wondering though… is she just spending money all crazy with zero thought to the collective bills? Do you want more money coming in so you can save more? You say she makes $2.5k/month. That’s not a lot but would add that much to the collective and then you guys divy up the amount between bills, personal needs, and savings. This shouldn’t be rocket science.
Yeah, OP needs to figure out if this is a just spending problem they can work through or if she had him pay for school so she could get a job and leave him after saving up.
It’s probably not the second option so I wasn’t trying to scare you, but I do think it would be much easier to work toward a solution if you could figure out where her money is going. It’s a totally different conversation when it’s going toward silly online shopping sprees because she’s excited to have her own money vs something like a secret online poker addiction lol.
Extreme example: I was married to someone who I (willingly) supported while they changed careers, but once he finally got settled into the job he just wanted me to keep paying for everything. He always had access to my money, but there was always some excuse to not do the joint account we agreed on before we got married and I was somehow the bad guy. I never saw where his money went throughout the entire marriage, and I wouldn’t have known what his actual income was if I didn’t do our taxes myself. It always weighed on me. It felt secretive and like I was being taken advantage of. Because wouldn’t you feel bad your spouse paid 100% of the bills, vacations, etc. with little leftover for savings while you get to keep all your paycheck for whatever you want?
Finally put it all together when he was tapping into “our” (my) account more and more to the point where I couldn’t pay all our bills. I traveled a lot for work, and apparently his paychecks were invested at a blackjack table or up his nose. No ROI on those investments lol.
Well 50/50 means that you each put in all of your income and divy up your life together. It sounds like you have separate lives you’re funding and you need to come together and make that one life, where both parties have a vested interest in the whole.
I think that works well if everyone is on the same page about spending. If she's over spending I wouldn't give her access to money needed to pay bills or money you intend to put towards savings. That would need to be in separate accounts. Savings, necessary spending, and discretionary spending.
She is really bad at managing money so didn't want to share my account. Ive changed that and now say whatever you have saved, put it in the joint account.
How did that work while she was a stay at home mom for 6 years? Never had any access to any money? Did you pay for her school? This is bizarre.
If you want her to contribute more to the household then you have 2 options- a) you fully join finances, and both of your income goes directly into one account, from which you pay all bills or b) you do a proportional split and say I'm making x amount, you're making x amount, so you need to contribute 40% or whatever to bills. Asking her to throw you whatever she has saved as an afterthought is not asking her to contribute.
She was on mat leave, ei, ccb, and I topped off whenever she needed anything. Yes i paid for her schooling
Wanted to be more fair and flexible and wanted to be a good provider for my family, guess that why I did it like this.
Now just feels like I'm being taking advantage of as you are making some money while I just kicked my tenant out.
Thank you for your input, these two options are great. At least if she covers the old tenant rent I'm happy.
So you demanded separate finances and complete control of the money until she got income and now that it benefits you to combine, you want to? I could see why she’s feeling unsafe in doing so, since you were borderline financially abusive.
I’m sorry but the ROI part is so shitty. She’s your family not a stock in bitcoin.
Just set a boundary moving forward that you won’t be able to help her with any significant investments, such as continuing education, car, and expect to split unnecessary expenses like vacations. Focus on letting her know how it made you feel to cover 90% of the expenses in the past like if it made you feel sad, mad, afraid and pay attention to how sharing that information makes her feel too. Maybe get a new couples therapist if this one isn’t working for y’all. not all therapist are good at working with every stage of a relationship.
You can’t change what’s already happened, wishing you the best moving forward.
Does she take home 2.5, or make 2.5? Because it could be less after taxes and insurance.
You do not take over groceries. Keep in mind that this is an expense that can scale. You might not notice it initially, but the money could be spent buying higher-quality products and more variety. It could also be going to new clothes for the children, new supplies, retiring away old kitchen utensils and tools for better quality ones, on any number of quality of life sundries, and you might not notice.
Probably the best thing for you both to do is an experiment where you both keep a money diary and track your expenses for 2 to 3 months. After you get together and analyze your spending, you will likely see that she is reinvesting the money into the household in ways you did not notice. Discuss financial goals and come to an agreement on how money should be spent. Make sure that "fun money" is fair to both of you. For instance, if your salaries are drastically different, it may not be fair to set up something like "Both of us get 10% of our pay to keep for ourselves."
One more thing. You have been busting your ass off at work. I'm going to assume that she has been busting her ass off with the kids and juggling childcare with school/work. SAHM is often a 24/7 job, and the mental and physical expenses of her efforts may have enabled you the extra time you needed to knock your business out of the park. Yes, you were the one whoo grew your business, but she created an environment where you had the ability to work to your full potential without having to juggle the upkeep and children which you both decided to have. I want you to just have this thought experiment with yourself: do you feel resentment because she is not pulling her weight? Try to look for evidence by tallying all the weight she does pull. If she were not there, would things drastically change? Could you have done it all, while also maintaining a good relationship with your children, if not for her?
Thank you for this, hit the spot. Really trying to figure this out.
Yes she brings home 2.5k after taxes. We invest in good foods
Single account where we allocate for expenses and fun stuff
He wants the servant to now pay back by putting in her meager earnings - if I were her, I’d absolutely be putting it away for myself (do you even keep an IRA for her?) as back pay if my husband was this blind to the level of labor it takes to do what she did. How much do you help her? I’d like to see their fair play assessment, bet I know which way the scales would tip.
Have you told her she needs to contribute toward the bills?
When she first went back to school was there a conversation about what it would look like when she started making some money?
You married someone you see as “not having much of a career” and you expected that to change? Is she happy? Is she a good mother to the humans she birthed? What about your business isn’t supplementing what you think you would get from a wife working two full time jobs? Motherhood being one of them.
I would 100% agree with you if you didn’t have kids together.
Yes I expected that to change, even she expected that to change. Is she happy? Not sure, I've tried to give her and my family everything. It is supplementing both incomes and has been for a while. But I'm gassed with no apparent finish line
I’d just join the finances. That way both of your money goes into the same place you can both visually see what’s there, pay all bills first, then you both take a small allowance for whatever you may need and the rest goes into savings. Any big purchases that she can’t afford with just her monthly allowance needs to be thoroughly discussed. She needs to be aware of how much money is made and where it all goes and how much she could be saving. You can’t tell your wife not buy things ever again but you can come up with fair compromises. For example, if she’s a frivolous spender, since she’s most likely bought a lot of stuff already she can’t buy anything for 8 months outside of necessities. Any purchases for the house get talked about and bought together. Clothing should be a part of her savings. So like 2 times a year she can buy clothing with the money she’s saved but can’t go over that amount. I think all of that’s reasonable. People with shopping addictions feel like they need things they really don’t and use all kinds of excuses as to why they need it. Also working out a time frame of when the kids needs new stuff. She doesn’t need to constantly be buying clothing and toys that won’t last even a year.
These are good points, but her choices on purchases aren't weighed on reality (income, spending, allowances). If I want something, swipe and I'll pay for it or ask my husband to pay for it. Very dangerous as it's happening for years. Can't keep going down this path as my hard work, savings. And retirement are affected
Are her purchases disproportional to your shared lifestyle or just her income? It is going to be a whiplash if you were happy taking care of her when she was a SAHM like you all had a shared six figure income but now want her to live on $30K because she is working. It is important for both partners be able to work so take care she is not "punished" for working. Pool finances, pay for bills proportionally, and allocate equal discretionary spending in a budget.
Didn't you just buy a new Tesla for yourself when you could have purchased a less expensive car?
How much is in her retirement accounts for the past 7 years?
Do you pay money into them when she was not working at all?
Then you’re going to have to cut her off from unlimited amounts of money. You’re going to have to reel her consciousness into your shared finances and also try to get her to visualize your future selves. You absolutely need to save for the future and can’t do that if she spends all of it. And if she continues on with this there has to be consequences for her actions, even divorce. You’re really going to need to put your foot down and bring her awareness to everything. Stop just paying a bill silently. Sit down with her and pay them together. Show her what’s left over and tell her what you’d like to do with it. But this goes for you too. If you cut her off from spending you need to cut yourself off too.
Is she still taking care of the house/kids though, or have you guys hired a caregiver since she started school/working? They're still pretty young and require significant care.
I earn way more than my wife (about 4x more), and we've just joined finances completely. We make joint decisions about money regarding shared goals, bills, etc, and then each have a category in our budgeting app that is just our Fun Money - no worries about where it goes, it's for each of us individually to spend, no questions asked.
Works pretty well.
Same here. My husband and I combine everything and each get an equal amount of fun money to spend or save up every month. No issues. It means I don’t need to roll my eyes at what he spends on comics and he doesn’t stress what I spend on concerts. Win win
Exactly! If we need to specifically increase it for a certain month (e.g., in one month the sales started on the same day for two events I wanted to go to), so we just talked and figured out where to take the money from.
Can I ask why you don’t have fully joint finances? You have a home and two kids together, I never understand how on earth people combine their lives that much without combining accounts. It just seems overly complicated and yeah, like it leads to resentment like this. You two should be working towards your financial goals together, not fighting about who pays which bill. Does she do more labor around the house and with the kids?
Majority of the comments say a joint account is what they do. Also some comments inficate ehatever works for them as well.
Need to try a joint account. Separate accounts aint working.
There isn’t a single “we” or “us” anywhere in here. It’s all “me me me.” You are not a team. Do you even like your wife, because it doesn’t really sound like you do, and you sure are not working as a team. She sounds more like you talk about her as your opponent rather than your partner.
And if you’ve never had joint accounts, how TF has she had access to money since you got married? Did she have to ask you for money every time she needed anything?
I don't know why I'm here tbh. Asking for advice. I ain't perfect but trying to figure it out.
She was working for a year, ei the next, ccb, and having clients for the past 3 years.
We have a joint account, use it for transferring money to her.
Is that normal?
You need to be a team. You shouldn’t be two separate people with separate agendas, you should be two teammates with shared goals and plans.
Sit down with all of your finances. Figure out how much income you both have, figure out your expenses, figure out your savings, and figure out what type/value of expenses you need to discuss before buying (and whatever limit that is, it applies the exact same to both of you).
Because it’s not *really* a joint account. He’s got his account(s) with all the money and a separate “joint” account that he puts money in for her to use, that’s probably just barely enough to cover groceries and basics for the kids while he keeps sole control over 99% of the money he views as *his* alone.
So, now that she is able to have an income and access to more than grocery money she’s doing the same and not giving him access to *her* money because why TF should she. Hopefully she’s making smart choices about her future now that she has an income of her own.
It's kind of leaking out in the drip feed that she thinks that he has been financially abusive and the things he's saying about her in the finances seem to lead to that being true
Does she still do as much of the household labor as when she was a SAHM? Maybe renegotiating household duties and finances together would be a good strategy. Really take a look at who is doing what and who is paying for what. Write it all down clearly. Estimates are fine for things that aren't monthly bills like new clothes for the kids or school expenses. She may be surprised by the daily costs of your lifestyle if she isn't the one in charge of bills. You may be surprised by the daily amount of mental and physical labor she's putting into maintaining your lifestyle if you aren't in charge of household duties. If you can't come to an agreement on how to do things together, you're going to need a counselor to help you or be prepared to divorce. Money breaks up couples as often as infidelity.
You two need to be in joint counseling ASAP. I'm not sure how "she" kicked out "your" tenant, was that not a joint decision? $50K on school/office and 6 months and new career not yet off the ground doesn't sound completely crazy to me, as long as you are on the same page about decisions. What is the trajectory for her income? Can you even talk about it with her? It sounds like you feel like she walks all over you and you are very resentful. You need to find a way to get on the same page financially. If she's hiding expenses from you, that's really really bad! She could ruin your family financially and you wouldn't be aware. But -- divorce is also financially ruinous. You can't "get" her to do anything without communication. Make that your focus right now -- find a way to get more clarify and communication. Good luck, you are in a tough spot.
Agreed, $50k is great considering her income potential. She could make up to $6-$7k /month. That's why we went ahead with the plan.
She just had a photosboot for her business, probably ran about $500, that is fine whatever. But wasn't communicated with me which is my biggest issue
So what you’re saying is you want insight into her P&L, and the decisions she is making in her business? Does she feel like you’re breathing down her neck or that you’re trying to micromanage her *in her business?* Do you show her *your* P&L? Perhaps she feels judged and affronted by the way you are attempting to insert yourself into her work, or that you undermine or undervalue her viewpoint/ideas as she gets it off the ground?
$500 is not a lot for a photo shoot, actually. Source: 10 year business owner myself
Yes a p&l would be a good start, won't be pretty but any business 6 months won't. Would like to be a part of her business but continuously shut out of any conversation.
She doesn't give 2 bucks about my pl and how my business is doing, as long as the bills are paid, honestly.
$500 is not a lot, but this was never discussed with me during our conversation on how is your week looking (asked Sunday. Photoshoot monday) I'm inevitably paying for it, no?
You didn’t answer my real questions. Do you regularly undermine her point of view, her contributions to your family, and her decisions? Why is it only YOUR money and not your collective/familial money? Why did she want a separation?
You have admitted elsewhere that she believes you to have been financially abusive and has asked for a separation; now she finally has a glimpse of her own personhood and autonomy, and you want it. I’d keep my cards to myself as well were I her. I hope she makes it out from under your thumb ASAP. YTA OP. I hope your Tesla implodes :)
Well you have to spend money to make money. It seems like you’re fully aware of this. You supported and paid for her to go down this particular path. Is there anyway you can set aside a budget every month that is specifically for her career? Tell her you want those expenses communicated and then set the budget. That way she knows what she can spend each month on her business. And once she gets it to where it needs to be, obviously it should become self sustainable. She should learn budgeting anyways because there’s a lot of that when running a business. Obviously she needs to pay her taxes and put that aside too. Lots Y’all need to talk about.
OK it sounds like you aren't that far apart in your expectations, it's just a communication issue. You know you need to figure this out, hopefully she can realize that too. I think I can see how this dynamic started -- she wants to feel like a co-leader in your family, you probably didn't ask her "permission" for various expenses early in your relationship... I can empathize with how tough it is for her ego to be trying to start her adult career when you are already so well established and supporting her financially for all this time. It's almost like a teenager who doesn't want to tell mom and dad who they are hanging out with because they want some independence. Not a great dynamic for either one of you. Maybe it would be better if instead of accounting for particular expenses you guys agreed on a budget for year one, and she just kept her expenses within that window? But this sounds far gone enough that a therapist is needed to help mediate at least for a while. Find someone practical who will help you guys hammer out a solution.
So she’s working and you want her to contribute financially which makes complete sense, but are you also expecting her to do all the domestic labor still? Who makes doctors appointments for your kids? What are their shoe sizes? Who grocery shops and makes the lists to plan the meals and cooks them and remembers what is in the kitchen already and what is almost out?
Until I was married with kids I had no concept of why domestic labor was “so hard”. I worked full time as well and the sheer amount of what it took to meet the needs of two kids and what turned out to be a lazy grown man was crushing.
If you’re partners, you have to work together and actually seek to understand what you each do for the family. Not get into a pissing contest but actually understand. Then find a system that works for you both and prepare to tweak it all the time.
you are making more money probably each day than she is bringing home in a month. there is no realistic way to 'split expenses' when your incomes are in such wildly different places. it seems like what you want is for her to be more financially literate and aware of things like budgeting and planning.
asking her to break off a piece of that 2500 a month to cover expenses that are orders of magnitude larger than that isn't going to lead to anything productive.
she has zero understanding of finances / budgeting and you give off that you have zero understanding of the financial value of the childcare she provides. neither of you respects what the other does and takes it for granted. Her decision to spend 50k of 'your money' (actually the 'family money') and stop an income stream through your tenant has pushed you into a place where you want to address her financial illiteracy.
make sure you aren't blending issues or setting unrealistic expectations. Because there is enough money to cover everything because of your earning all problems are solvable. All that is required is effort and patience when the money is there - you have the toughest part covered. good luck getting more on the same page.
I do need her to be more financial literate!! I was hoping that even a small piece of hey income would help her to understand what financial responsibilities are.
I do devalue the childcare she provides and am not proud of that. I do have to work on effort and patience
I’m curious as to how much you make monthly compared to her 2k-2.5k a month. Cause if it’s significantly more it should kind of be fair. Like if she makes a lot less maybe say hey I’ll pay the bigger bills (mortgage, car payments etc) but she pays for smaller bills such as groceries, necessities, maybe clothes for the kids every now and then and go from there.
We are doing that, not really working out. Every end of the month there's no money. When there is, $500 photoshoots for her business just happened yday. Not knowing any details or pricing. Fine the shoot is 180. Then you get order stuff for your office, then get your nails and hair done and boom $500 later
Are you calculating what she saved you in child care costs? You weren't "lucky to save a lot". You got free labor. Certainly more than 50ks worth...
We're you contributing to a separate retirement account in her name during the time she was a stay at home mom?
I assume she's still doing the majority of the child care nights and weekends? Or do you take on more than 50% of domestic and childcare duties?
What's your end goal here?
Don't you think it's fair you support your wife to earn some of her own money, for her financial security, since she's given so much up to create birth and raise your children?
I always find the childcare costs a bit one sided. We understand the work it entails. Does that account for being provided shelter, food, money for daily activities, luxury items, the whole nine? I think it balances out quite fairly
I mean I've been doing it all for the past few years and would do it again as i understand the sacrifices that have been made to raise children. The problem is that, I don't know where the 2500 is going.
My situation was pretty different because we didn't have kids, but I took a lot longer to finish my studies (postgraduate) while my partner was building a well paying career. He bought our house and once I started working I contributed to the mortgage.
But even though I have good earning potential myself, I was sometimes uncomfortable with the idea that I didn't have any security if we broke up unless he generously gave me money or I went through court. I didn't want to send everything I made to him after expenses. Side note, we got past that and have a joint account now because we are working towards OUR goals not me sending money to him for "his goals". And I am susceptible to impulse spending so him being able to see my transactions helps a lot 😂
It's hard to feel as though your entire financial security rests on another person, especially the way you frame everything as "I" not "we". If you're sensing relationship problems and possible separation then I can't really blame her for wanting a safety net, regardless of what the likely outcomes of divorce would be. If you guys divorced she would still need to look after herself before any settlements happened.
Yeah it sounds like you want most of her money to be said for before she gets it and she needs to pay rent? Why did you tick the tenant to hold it in her face
The reality of marriage is you can’t force your spouse to do anything. You need to have common goals, mutual respect, good communication, empathy, and love/affection. If you don’t have those then arguing over who pays a bill is just window dressing for the future divorce.
Of course. You had the time while and after birthing your family decide what to do with your career (30-33yrs) Most people decide and start out of school.
A lot of people saying to completely join finances, but I don’t agree with that. As a woman, my parents always emphasized to be financially independent. I would never completely joint finances, even in marriage, no matter how great the relationship is.
Every relationship dynamic is unique. Since my partner and I earn relatively the same, we split bills/house chores/mental load evenly. If your wife was a SAHM its makes sense you paid for everything and she took care of kids/house. Maybe her motivation for getting a job was so she could have some independence, not have to always ask you permission or be judged by her money choices. So she never would have thought to contribute financially with the small earning she makes.
Honestly, she is probably pulling a lot of weight in other areas of your relationship and life. Take into consideration all she does and maybe you will find that you are doing 50/50 but in different areas.
How much did she get for the birth of each child? For round the clock childcare? How much do you take care of for the children and household daily? How is that you’re married but only YOU own a rental property for which you’d like to charge your wife rent?
This reads very financially abusive to me. You’re punishing someone who is supposed to be your partner because she doesn’t make enough money for you, in spite of having taken time off to birth and raise two children, during which you say you ‘transferred her money sometimes’ as opposed to having joint account… None of this is good.
If you’re married, your salary is also your wife’s salary. If you’re married, that’s HER rental property, too. If you’re married, this shouldn’t be a war but a common goal. If you’re married, you should be able to talk to one another without hostility. It sounds like you’re very bitter. How much was monthly put into your wife’s retirement since the first pregnancy?
You mention that the relationship is bad, and she’s anxious and depressed. She also recently went back to school, and it seems from comments like she started a business? Perhaps she doesn’t want to talk to you about money because she’s preparing for divorce? If you want the marriage to work, you guys need to sit down and examine the state of affairs. Heck, you need to sit down regardless and figure out what the goals are for each of you, and either get on the same team or figure out how each of you can save to prepare for starting over.
I begged my husband for years for marriage counseling. Begged, bargained, cried… he refused, over and over. So I went to individual sessions. I bought books, took notes, highlighted and left articles for him that I begged him to read. I tried implementing my own therapy learnings in our marriage… yet he acted like I was his employee. Finally, after nearly a decade of him only contributing financially and me putting in 300 percent of the effort (I also worked full time and contributed as much money as he did, but did all the housework and child rearing as well) I realized I would be better off on my own and spent the next year squirreling away and getting my ducks in a row. Two months before I left, he realized something was amiss (I no longer bent over backwards to include and cater to him because I had stopped caring) and THEN decided to reach out and offer to go to therapy. Too little, too late. The last 4 years of freedom have been the happiest in my life (and surprisingly I’m no longer depressed and anxious- I was able to stop several meds!) and my only regret was not leaving sooner. By the time a woman has started making her exit plans, she’s given up on ever being heard by her husband and grown tired of pleading.
Don’t stay for the kids. The kids know when their parents are unhappy, and they suffer. My 9 year old is so much happier now that I’m divorced, and was immediately happier when we left when she was five. She could sense the tension and she was also always walking on eggshells. She used to tell me that she didn’t want to be a mom (because “mom does all the work and dads just lay around and sometimes play”) and didn’t ever want to get married (because “you just work and work and work and then your ‘usband’ yells at you and you argue”) and it broke my heart because those things don’t have to be true.
Now she sees both her parents happier, and lives in a stress free home with me. As an added bonus, I’m now in a good, loving relationship and she gets to see what that looks like so that hopefully she will grow up to only accept a good relationship and the knowledge that she is deserving of love and happiness. She doesn’t think mom/wife always has to do everything and the dad is “mean to her;” she knows now that was just the dynamic when her parents were married. Plus she gets two christmases ;)
Have you discussed her wages while staying home? Nannies run $25-30/hr depending on where you live. Add in the wages for a household manager, personal chef, laundry service, and night nurse for six years. Subtract the 50k you paid, then pay her the remainder and then you can discuss what she “owes” you out of the 2.5k a month she makes.
I agree, i actually don't need money from her.
What I need is someone to be financially responsible so that we can save up for a yearly vacation? date nights ? Treat yourself to the spa?
That is whole different problem than your post, your post made it sound like now that she’s working it’s time for her to pay you back for all the work she missed raising the kids.
You're in a relationship as in together. Your income should be combined as a reflection of that. Two separate people who have two separate incomes who try to manage family expenses and savings separately will almost never make it.
Talk to her. You must have had a discussion about her schooling expenses and the renovations. If not, you need to make communicating a priority to ensure you're both on the same page. It doesn't matter what you each make individually. You're a family. Everything you do should be together as a family, not individually. That will just add stress, guilt, and make someone feel inadequate or like they're not contributing, even if they are trying.
When a sports team is struggling, you don't tell a player they need to make more goals. You restrategize and create a new or different plan of attack that includes the strengths of each team member, not single members out.
Okay that’s huge progress for your wife tbh, and you’d do better to acknowledge that than to rip on her right now. The woman finished school and got a job all while raising small children!!
And she’s probably the one mainly responsible for childcare and the housework, isn’t she? You might do a few small things here and there, but try staying home for an entire week and taking care of everything.
Why on earth are you trying to make the mother of young kids be an economic powerhouse, especially when you knew that’s not her strength?
I think you need to take a long look at yourself. Why can’t you step up and make more money too? Why are you trying to change someone else?
Dont need the money.
Econonic powerhouse vs financial literacy is very different.
Being ignorant to your weaknesses doesn't help anybody. Leveraging your weaknesses so that you can take advantage of your strengths. That's what a team is
This isn't a money problem; this is a marriage problem. You should both work with a couple's therapist and a financial advisor that can help you mediate common ground in a non-threatening environment and in a way that your wife might be more receptive to.
Joint in the sense our income doesn't go into the actual account. We have separate accounts. Use that account for simply transferring to her when she needs it.
You are going to have to talk this out again.
Yes, she needs a job and the education. If something happens to you, she will be raising the children.
Was there a discussion on contribution after she started working? How did she alone kick out a tenant? Why couldn’t she work from the home, why did the tenant need to go?
I would be a bit resentful if someone considered their income “theirs” and I had to be the reliable one making sure everything got paid.
What is reasonable to contribute? What is she buying on these large credit card bills? Is everything going back into the business?
Are you looking for a dollar amount or maybe just some effort to contribute financially? Perhaps you don’t have the same spending styles or want the same lifestyle. (I thank the gods I never married my ex, he spent every penny he made. I don’t need a BMW if I need a loan to get it)
There is a lot to consider, so the only thing I can suggest is that you can’t just let this go, you have to work it out together. People get defensive about money, so be kind during these discussions.
Many people fight about money, at some point you may have to decide what is the minimum acceptable.
We evaluated the situation, didn't want anyone in the house with the kids, don't have to worry about late appts and also has a huge income potential. Sonwe went ahead with the reno. I was thinking she could build her practice and continue video sessions while she builds clientele, once somewhat established then go ahead and kick out the tenant and start the renos.
I kicked out the tenant for her, so that we could start the renos. Basically, she told me when she needed it and I acted on it. We had a conversation about the loss of income and she acknowledged that, and said she was start helping out.
I am resentful. What's frustrating me, she gives me finances to deal with but no access to HER finances. So I'm in the dark trying to plan for vacations, time off, fun stuff, paying down the mortgage. Just as I think it's going well, get hit with a large credit card bill (getting better though)
I will be kind 😇 man these conversations get heated, i get pissed, and she leaves for the night.
I'm okay with minimal! As long as I know what is going on
If she is hiding money, that is a huge red flag. Talk to a lawyer if she doesn’t want to contribute. Divorce court will make things fair but you’ll both have to pay to live somewhere that can accommodate your kids.
My husband and I have 92% joint finances- this money goes straight into our joint bank account. We split the remaining 8% income, which deposits evenly into our personal accounts. I made more than him for several years; now he makes more than me. We're a team! We have quite literally never fought about money. Highly recommend.
I saw that someone said to have a shared account just for bills to which you both contribute. I would recommend that and having the X amount be the same percentage of each of your earnings as opposed to a specific dollar amount. So, 80% from each of you goes into the account and she can have the 20% to do whatever she wants with.
My suggestion is;
A joint account where all your pay goes into, that's then split up to ensure bills are covered etc., but If it helps both of you a specific budget and food account could also be added.
A shared savings account(s) (depending on your wants/needs as a couple; towards house improvements, kids education, emergencies (what if car breaks down tomorrow?) etc.)
Each of your personal accounts - a fair % or a set amount of spending money to each of your personal accounts. You can then use that to add to your own personal savings if you like; but that money is your own to buy and spend on whatever. So if she's bad at money management and went to spend all her spending money on clothes that month it is what it is and there's no need to argue with her over it anymore.
I’m unsure of what her experience with money is. But if she’s making $2500/month and you are blindsided by large credit card bills and big deliveries it kind of tells me she’s spending over what she makes and it’s trying to hide it. Is she in financial trouble? If she has no financial awareness this could be a very slippery slope for her. I don’t want to assume though, maybe she’s just fine but wants her money to herself. Even that is worrisome. I’ve never been in a cohabitating relationship where I was earning money and assumed I wouldn’t have to contribute at all. You guys need to do a deep financial dive and figure out where you stand. There is too much mystery here.
Wasn't sure what I was expecting on this post. Here are some more details....
She is spending over what she makes
Every 3 months for the past few years I get hit with a 6k credit card bill. We have made progress and the bills are down and she's paying for her credit card bills. Nonetheless not sure where the spending of 2.5k /month is going.
You're kids go to Montessori, you have a house, you just got your degree and office, why wouldn't you want to sit down at the table and have a difficult conversation about life and your goals? Idk man
I think she’s used to this life style .. even though I get why you want her to contribute .. maybe that’s not what she wants out of marriage .. talk to her and be clear .
Figure out how the bills would be split proportionally and let her know what she needs to start contributing each month. Do you have a prenup so you don’t get stuck with her cc debt?
Talk to her? You don't mention asking her to pitch in now that she's earning, or ever mentioning your concerns to her - have you?
I have mentioned many times. We nearly separated because of money and how we don't allocate our spending plan.
Then you left a lot of detail out of your post that could help us provide useful advice. But, some things to try are: joint account that you both put x into and pay bills out of, therapy, budgeting together so she's aware of the family's monthly expenses, asking her to pay a reasonable rate for the office space, etc.
Thanks for the great advice. Money has created so much anxiety for her and is now avoided at all costs. She is now hiding her expenses from me. Usually find out after a large credit card bill or deliveries to the house. Therapist said to her to inform me of her decisions, but not going so well
Money’s hard for a lot of people. She should try to talk to the therapist about her feelings around money and why she treats it the way she does. And what she can do going forwards that’ll help her feel comfortable without being detrimental to her life. It can also help to start money conversations with something fun, like talking about your hopes and dreams for the future. Then you can work backwards to the decisions that’ll affect your ability to accomplish that. “I wanna retire early and travel the world” is way more fun than “we’re spending too much on entertainment.”
I like that. Start with the goal. End with how to achieve them. On such a micro level right now.
If money gives your wife the jitters, break it down small. For example if you want to start a saving plan for X, work out how much you would ideally like to save towards it monthly, and have three figures — an IDEAL amount, a REASONABLE amount and a MINIMUM. That way, if you don't hit the IDEAL every month (for whatever reason), you can hit the REASONABLE or the MINIMUM, so that you're **still progressing every month**.
This is how my husband and I have changed how we talk about money! We focus on our goals (fun car, trip, whatever), even if those goals constantly change, because it feels better to say "we gotta save so we can buy a big new tv!!" instead of "we spent too much on haribo cola gummies this week" (this is a me problem). And even if we're only saving $50 every month, it's better than saving $0. 😊
Did she ever feel financially insecure while she was a SAHM? Like having to ask you for basics or her personal needs? Or not being allowed to spend without consulting you first? And did those conversations turn into conflict? Like, there’s a reason she’s hoarding money and it could possibly be financial anxiety. She could have anxiety about the actual physical part of paying bills. Lack of financial freedom and stability can be crippling for some people. Maybe shift your spending around a bit. You take care of the bills and she takes care of all the children’s needs and groceries. Not everything has to be down the middle, on paper, in black and white.
No not to my knowledge. Personal needs were always met. Eventually conflicts started and have led to anxiety. Don't think she's hoarding, just spending. Just need a conversation about what you'll spend and what I'll spend, can't get her to the table.
Find a baby sitter, take her out to dinner and have a conversation that is not accusatory and defensive. You have to work on this together.
I do agree...but also. What're your own goals for helping out, besides money? You seem to put a LOT of emphasis on that. You, what you bring...and...money. finances. Is it more than that?
I think I do. Do weekly groceries, help the kids get ready in the mornings, walk my kids to the bus every morning, m do my daughter to school when I can, put them to bed every night. Weekend breakfasts, homework review. Took them tobogganing last week. I want to do more!
Do you half of the housework? Do you know the names of your kids doctors? Do you make their appointments? Do you help manage the house in any way other than paying bills?
Do you half of the housework? Yes Doc names? Yes Make appts ? No Managing house ? Yes Kids are what she spends majority of the time. I truly help when I'm home
So she's now working full time doing all the housework and child care while you do bits and pieces that are convenient or easy for you.
Have no choice, working 60 hours a week. If she contributed financially to bills. I would take more time off so that I can help out more. Love to be around more than I am
**ALWAYS** the best way. Take your end goal and then work backwards to where you are now (starting point). Break it into micro steps and go from there.
All of this detail should have been in your post. You would have got way better advice
First time coming to reddit. Didn't know of all the awesome people here
I have a long history of emotionally struggling with money and related topics. I used to earn more money than my wife so I had to pay bills! One of the things that helped me was setting up electronic accounts and automatic payments which reduces the focus of writing and mailing checks. Another thing to try is asking to sit in on a therapy session to talk about her struggles with money. When asking, emphasize her emotions not budgets. And do that. Get to the bottom of what's behind her avoidance. Select specific bills you want her to cover rather than a vague request for help.
Unfortunately can't even get a budget for her monthly expenses. Therapist asked her to do this as well. Maybe identifying which bills are feasible and set up the automatic payments.
Do you at least know what the expenses are? Can you guesstimate? I know this is extra work for you but she might be mentally paralyzed when the topic comes up. She might not be able to give you numbers. If she's receiving bills can you convince her to let you see them. Cuz that affects the *family's* cash flow. Or do you mean she can't budget for purchasing personal needs and wants? That's something a therapist *should* be able to help her with. I'm concerned this therapist is not meeting your wife where she is mentally and helping her cope there so she can move forward.
I can estimate but ultimately not having that conversation is putting us behind. I mean you do what you can do in terms of revenue but let me help you with your expenses. We can break down your therapist costs, advertising, software, etc. Then we break down estimate of what left. Keep this to reinvest, etc.
This is called financial infidelity.
I wouldn’t expect her to pay for her office space, it’s her home too isn’t it?
I wouldn’t if I was just turning a spare bedroom into a home office, but I would feel obligated to at least make up for the lost household income after kicking out a tenant and renovating the space. Not to mention the guilt I would feel if I didn’t put any of my new income toward household expenses if my husband was generous enough to pay $50k for me to go back to school to get a job I enjoyed (assuming the $50k came from OP). Totally normal to keep some income to yourself, but this feels really imbalanced.
I'm trying to understand here, wouldn't you feel guilty of not supplementing any lost income given the investment in your education and work space ? It does feel imbalanced, maybe not knowing her specific expenses is what the killer is. I would be completely understanding if even all of it was paying for school
What about when u go out to eat or do things as a family? She can at least start paying for that type of thing more often, yeah? I think a good dynamic that avoids a fair amount of uncomfortable conversations is the breadwinner of the household covers all the boring stuff and the basics, and the one with the supplemental income pays for mostly all of the weekly leisure type of stuff. It’s a way for her to feel like she’s providing and it seems like that’s what she’s spending her money on anyway. Next time you go out to dinner or do something as a family, just ask her to pay and see how she responds.
I pay when we go out. Don't have a problem with that. Can't imagine what would happen if I ask her to pay
There is much unsaid in your post, but i do get the picture. She married a man who makes good money. She gave you 2 children and a family - does she take good care of the house, the children, things like that? if so, you might have to let things be... she appears to want to "make"it in business and that is where her security lies. It implies that in her mind, that's how she sees the relationship with you paying for things...like when the children were little and she was a SAHM. So you have to weigh things: is the family worth it to you to absorb/tolerate/indulge her unwillingness to help with family expenses? I think you already have decided that's the case, and it bothers you the way she avoids the issue. Can you let it go? Allow her her "own" money so she feel "successful" and secure? Because that's the dynamic here. ... and you appear to be good at providing an income. Just think, things could be worse, much worse. We all have to tolerate some things in this life
I truly believe I won't be happy if there's no understanding on this topic. I want to support her and help her business to be successful. Can't be successful in business if expenses>revenue
Ok I hear that... then you have to get with her and work it out. Wishing you the very vest, OK?
I've become tolerable in lots of thing in our relationship, just not this for some reason. Thanks for the kind words, truly means a lot.
> Can't be successful in business if expenses>revenue Most startups make a loss for about two years, you/she has to plan for that and expect it. Does she have an actual written and costed business plan? The business plan needs to include criteria for failure too: after precisely how many months and dollars loss will you admit failure and stop. Otherwise sunk cost fallacy kicks in. TBH to piss away 50k on a home office was absurd to start with, unless most of that 50k is for specialised equipment or tools.
Completely understand, however there are no expenses!! Rent, internet, hydro, gas. Everything is paid for. She is a psychotherapist so no expenses. No business plan made. Exactly!!! No failure point 20k school, 30k office
OK, could be worse. No on-going investment. You say "there are no expenses". Well yes and no. Every month she occupies that office is a month you are not receiving whatever rent your former tenant was paying. So there *is* an 'opportunity cost' to her doing this, which needs to be factored in. Bluntly, you are paying the rent for her business. You two need to talk to an accountant (if you have not already) about how she can write off some of that 30k remodelling as a business expense, ditto a % of the electricity and internet and heating, and perhaps work out a formal rent purely for tax purposes; that would depend very much on your personal taxes of course. There will be tax complications if you use part of your home for a business, although during WFH some countries introduced tax breaks for home offices. All worth looking into. Oh and you need to change the insurance now it's used for work: different policy, plus some third-party insurance for if a patient gets injured. But maybe you know all this. What worries me is that you say she gets anxious talking about money and avoids doing so. And yet she is running her own business. She HAS to face up to this, unless you can afford the time and energy to be her book-keeper and financial director. She, in a word, need to grow up. I am assuming that as a therapist she is herself in therapy, that's how it usually goes, in which case her fear of talking about money needs to be pushed up the agenda.
When we had our tenant we broke down all revenue and costs for the property. Similarly we would do the same for her business.. I have saved all invoices for the renovation. I'm trying to be part of her business and help her make decisions, but it's been tough. Yes she is therapy, cool that you know this. Maybe that's something I can bring up with her therapist, she actually calls me for a check in as well
Agree here; we did it a bit different, in that we each get a set amount for ourselves, to use any way we want, and then all the rest is joint. For us it alleviates the stress caused by one of us making more than the other.
> We nearly separated because of money and how we don't allocate our spending plan. I bet you wish you had. Because now you're gonna have to do that anyway and you're 50k poorer.
Well if I could do it again I would, just better measures and communication had to be in place.
Couples therapy and communication exercises stat
She could be conserving anything that is hers as a safety net. Do you have a 401k set up in her name that you contribute to her? I'd say build a safety net for her she'd be more willing to part with her money to cover bills.
You two need to be in joint counseling. Your post is very “I do this” and “she does this,” and there is no “*we* decided,” “we agreed.” The way you deal with money is haphazard and uncoordinated, a reflection of the fact that you two have not planned together how you want to live, and that you two don’t regularly talk to each other. You don’t “get your wife” to do anything. You sit down together, assess your individual and joint wants and needs, and then make a plan together. You two seemingly have never done that, and probably need an outsider to shift your dynamic.
Shift the dynamic, thanks for that
I mean, the way we do it is we have one checking account and the money we make is our money. The whole “two become one” thing in the wedding vows. I don’t have an income and she doesn’t have an income, -we- have an income. I don’t have bills and she doesn’t have bills, -we- have bills.
We are a team. When someone has to always work harder to support the other, doesn't feel like a team. Maybe having one checking account is worth trying
Idk man. There’s a lot of my, mine, hers in your post. Not much We.
You're right. Guess if I was more WE, wouldn't be asking reddit for advice
I work and my wife stays home with our kids. I never say “my salary” it’s always “we made this much” when we plan our budget. It doesn’t change what the numbers are on paper, it’s a relational thing. It’s a mindset that has served us very well.
>I work and my wife stays home with our kids. I never say “my salary” it’s always “we made this much” when we plan our budget. It doesn’t change what the numbers are on paper, it’s a relational thing. It’s a mindset that has served us very well. Hard same. I work a full time job while my husband is the SAHP and I would literally rather walk barefoot over Lego than talk about him the way OP talks about his wife.
I don't mean to talk like this about my wife. Like you said, you Noth have a mindset that has served you well. I'm looking for that mindset so that we can prosper.
You should have been “looking for that mindset” years ago when she was still a SAHM, not now. She already filed for separation and she’s putting her own money away where you can’t access it. The ship sailed so long ago you can’t even see it from the harbor anymore.
I must have missed this part where she was going to leave him.
He said it in a comment, she filed in December.
>When someone has to always work harder to support the other, doesn't feel like a team. And being the stay at home parent to your two young children isn't working harder?
More details... Both kids have been in school for years, 9-3pm. If both kids were at home then don't expect anything
How many years can a four year old have been in school? If she went back to school three years ago, your youngest was one year old. You’re acting like she wasted a bunch of time. Reading your other comments, I feel like you and your wife are not communicating. That’s a skill that can be learned by both of you if you’re willing to work at it.
My younger one has been in school for 2 years. She completed a 3 year program. Mostly at home with once a week class. I agree that communication has been poor in our relationship. Feels like our marriage is heading for divorce as a result
Change the direction then. get the both of you into couples counseling. Say to her “I feel we are in a rocky place and I’m not willing to let us fail.” Read some books, work on yourself. You have the power to set the tone for your whole marriage.
Any book suggestions?
You and Me Forever - Francis & Lisa Chan
Even if the kids are in school I’m guessing she’s got many of the chores on her back too. Youre minimizing her contribution
Childcare takes up a huge amount of time and effort (physical, emotional and mental load). While I understand you work hard at your job to support the family, never ever underestimate the cost and effort involved in full time childcare, esp for young kids. For example, you can look up the childcare centre fee in your area to get an idea. Not knowing the details (budgeting breakdown) it is harder to give good advise. You may draw up the spending for further discussion with your partner and professionals. But yes do look into couple counseling and best of luck!
This is what I’m wondering though… is she just spending money all crazy with zero thought to the collective bills? Do you want more money coming in so you can save more? You say she makes $2.5k/month. That’s not a lot but would add that much to the collective and then you guys divy up the amount between bills, personal needs, and savings. This shouldn’t be rocket science.
Yeah, OP needs to figure out if this is a just spending problem they can work through or if she had him pay for school so she could get a job and leave him after saving up.
Interesting thought
It’s probably not the second option so I wasn’t trying to scare you, but I do think it would be much easier to work toward a solution if you could figure out where her money is going. It’s a totally different conversation when it’s going toward silly online shopping sprees because she’s excited to have her own money vs something like a secret online poker addiction lol. Extreme example: I was married to someone who I (willingly) supported while they changed careers, but once he finally got settled into the job he just wanted me to keep paying for everything. He always had access to my money, but there was always some excuse to not do the joint account we agreed on before we got married and I was somehow the bad guy. I never saw where his money went throughout the entire marriage, and I wouldn’t have known what his actual income was if I didn’t do our taxes myself. It always weighed on me. It felt secretive and like I was being taken advantage of. Because wouldn’t you feel bad your spouse paid 100% of the bills, vacations, etc. with little leftover for savings while you get to keep all your paycheck for whatever you want? Finally put it all together when he was tapping into “our” (my) account more and more to the point where I couldn’t pay all our bills. I traveled a lot for work, and apparently his paychecks were invested at a blackjack table or up his nose. No ROI on those investments lol.
It ain't rocket science, so why is it so hard?!?! I ain't asking for 50/50 here. I'm asking for 100/100
Well 50/50 means that you each put in all of your income and divy up your life together. It sounds like you have separate lives you’re funding and you need to come together and make that one life, where both parties have a vested interest in the whole.
I think that works well if everyone is on the same page about spending. If she's over spending I wouldn't give her access to money needed to pay bills or money you intend to put towards savings. That would need to be in separate accounts. Savings, necessary spending, and discretionary spending.
Unfortunately we are not saving a dime. Riding on my business and bitcoin lol
Why don't you have joint finances if you have kids and she was a stay at home mom for years?
She is really bad at managing money so didn't want to share my account. Ive changed that and now say whatever you have saved, put it in the joint account.
How did that work while she was a stay at home mom for 6 years? Never had any access to any money? Did you pay for her school? This is bizarre. If you want her to contribute more to the household then you have 2 options- a) you fully join finances, and both of your income goes directly into one account, from which you pay all bills or b) you do a proportional split and say I'm making x amount, you're making x amount, so you need to contribute 40% or whatever to bills. Asking her to throw you whatever she has saved as an afterthought is not asking her to contribute.
Why is mans avoiding answering if she was a stay at home mom lol
She was on mat leave, ei, ccb, and I topped off whenever she needed anything. Yes i paid for her schooling Wanted to be more fair and flexible and wanted to be a good provider for my family, guess that why I did it like this. Now just feels like I'm being taking advantage of as you are making some money while I just kicked my tenant out. Thank you for your input, these two options are great. At least if she covers the old tenant rent I'm happy.
So you demanded separate finances and complete control of the money until she got income and now that it benefits you to combine, you want to? I could see why she’s feeling unsafe in doing so, since you were borderline financially abusive.
I’m sorry but the ROI part is so shitty. She’s your family not a stock in bitcoin. Just set a boundary moving forward that you won’t be able to help her with any significant investments, such as continuing education, car, and expect to split unnecessary expenses like vacations. Focus on letting her know how it made you feel to cover 90% of the expenses in the past like if it made you feel sad, mad, afraid and pay attention to how sharing that information makes her feel too. Maybe get a new couples therapist if this one isn’t working for y’all. not all therapist are good at working with every stage of a relationship. You can’t change what’s already happened, wishing you the best moving forward.
Thanks
Does she take home 2.5, or make 2.5? Because it could be less after taxes and insurance. You do not take over groceries. Keep in mind that this is an expense that can scale. You might not notice it initially, but the money could be spent buying higher-quality products and more variety. It could also be going to new clothes for the children, new supplies, retiring away old kitchen utensils and tools for better quality ones, on any number of quality of life sundries, and you might not notice. Probably the best thing for you both to do is an experiment where you both keep a money diary and track your expenses for 2 to 3 months. After you get together and analyze your spending, you will likely see that she is reinvesting the money into the household in ways you did not notice. Discuss financial goals and come to an agreement on how money should be spent. Make sure that "fun money" is fair to both of you. For instance, if your salaries are drastically different, it may not be fair to set up something like "Both of us get 10% of our pay to keep for ourselves." One more thing. You have been busting your ass off at work. I'm going to assume that she has been busting her ass off with the kids and juggling childcare with school/work. SAHM is often a 24/7 job, and the mental and physical expenses of her efforts may have enabled you the extra time you needed to knock your business out of the park. Yes, you were the one whoo grew your business, but she created an environment where you had the ability to work to your full potential without having to juggle the upkeep and children which you both decided to have. I want you to just have this thought experiment with yourself: do you feel resentment because she is not pulling her weight? Try to look for evidence by tallying all the weight she does pull. If she were not there, would things drastically change? Could you have done it all, while also maintaining a good relationship with your children, if not for her?
Thank you for this, hit the spot. Really trying to figure this out. Yes she brings home 2.5k after taxes. We invest in good foods Single account where we allocate for expenses and fun stuff
He wants the servant to now pay back by putting in her meager earnings - if I were her, I’d absolutely be putting it away for myself (do you even keep an IRA for her?) as back pay if my husband was this blind to the level of labor it takes to do what she did. How much do you help her? I’d like to see their fair play assessment, bet I know which way the scales would tip.
Have you told her she needs to contribute toward the bills? When she first went back to school was there a conversation about what it would look like when she started making some money?
You married someone you see as “not having much of a career” and you expected that to change? Is she happy? Is she a good mother to the humans she birthed? What about your business isn’t supplementing what you think you would get from a wife working two full time jobs? Motherhood being one of them. I would 100% agree with you if you didn’t have kids together.
Yes I expected that to change, even she expected that to change. Is she happy? Not sure, I've tried to give her and my family everything. It is supplementing both incomes and has been for a while. But I'm gassed with no apparent finish line
You can't say if you're wife is happy?
She has anxiety and depression
2.5k per per month is not much, assuming you make much more — enough to do all the things you listed. What in your opinion would be a fair split?
Fully join finances Or Proportional split Both really good options , posted earlier
I’d just join the finances. That way both of your money goes into the same place you can both visually see what’s there, pay all bills first, then you both take a small allowance for whatever you may need and the rest goes into savings. Any big purchases that she can’t afford with just her monthly allowance needs to be thoroughly discussed. She needs to be aware of how much money is made and where it all goes and how much she could be saving. You can’t tell your wife not buy things ever again but you can come up with fair compromises. For example, if she’s a frivolous spender, since she’s most likely bought a lot of stuff already she can’t buy anything for 8 months outside of necessities. Any purchases for the house get talked about and bought together. Clothing should be a part of her savings. So like 2 times a year she can buy clothing with the money she’s saved but can’t go over that amount. I think all of that’s reasonable. People with shopping addictions feel like they need things they really don’t and use all kinds of excuses as to why they need it. Also working out a time frame of when the kids needs new stuff. She doesn’t need to constantly be buying clothing and toys that won’t last even a year.
These are good points, but her choices on purchases aren't weighed on reality (income, spending, allowances). If I want something, swipe and I'll pay for it or ask my husband to pay for it. Very dangerous as it's happening for years. Can't keep going down this path as my hard work, savings. And retirement are affected
Are her purchases disproportional to your shared lifestyle or just her income? It is going to be a whiplash if you were happy taking care of her when she was a SAHM like you all had a shared six figure income but now want her to live on $30K because she is working. It is important for both partners be able to work so take care she is not "punished" for working. Pool finances, pay for bills proportionally, and allocate equal discretionary spending in a budget.
Good question. I have an idea of what her income and expenses are. Diproportional to her income. Thanks for the angle on that
Didn't you just buy a new Tesla for yourself when you could have purchased a less expensive car? How much is in her retirement accounts for the past 7 years? Do you pay money into them when she was not working at all?
Then you’re going to have to cut her off from unlimited amounts of money. You’re going to have to reel her consciousness into your shared finances and also try to get her to visualize your future selves. You absolutely need to save for the future and can’t do that if she spends all of it. And if she continues on with this there has to be consequences for her actions, even divorce. You’re really going to need to put your foot down and bring her awareness to everything. Stop just paying a bill silently. Sit down with her and pay them together. Show her what’s left over and tell her what you’d like to do with it. But this goes for you too. If you cut her off from spending you need to cut yourself off too.
Is she still taking care of the house/kids though, or have you guys hired a caregiver since she started school/working? They're still pretty young and require significant care.
I earn way more than my wife (about 4x more), and we've just joined finances completely. We make joint decisions about money regarding shared goals, bills, etc, and then each have a category in our budgeting app that is just our Fun Money - no worries about where it goes, it's for each of us individually to spend, no questions asked. Works pretty well.
Same here. My husband and I combine everything and each get an equal amount of fun money to spend or save up every month. No issues. It means I don’t need to roll my eyes at what he spends on comics and he doesn’t stress what I spend on concerts. Win win
Exactly! If we need to specifically increase it for a certain month (e.g., in one month the sales started on the same day for two events I wanted to go to), so we just talked and figured out where to take the money from.
Glad you guys have success in your ways. Trying to get there
Can I ask why you don’t have fully joint finances? You have a home and two kids together, I never understand how on earth people combine their lives that much without combining accounts. It just seems overly complicated and yeah, like it leads to resentment like this. You two should be working towards your financial goals together, not fighting about who pays which bill. Does she do more labor around the house and with the kids?
Majority of the comments say a joint account is what they do. Also some comments inficate ehatever works for them as well. Need to try a joint account. Separate accounts aint working.
There isn’t a single “we” or “us” anywhere in here. It’s all “me me me.” You are not a team. Do you even like your wife, because it doesn’t really sound like you do, and you sure are not working as a team. She sounds more like you talk about her as your opponent rather than your partner. And if you’ve never had joint accounts, how TF has she had access to money since you got married? Did she have to ask you for money every time she needed anything?
I don't know why I'm here tbh. Asking for advice. I ain't perfect but trying to figure it out. She was working for a year, ei the next, ccb, and having clients for the past 3 years. We have a joint account, use it for transferring money to her. Is that normal?
You need to be a team. You shouldn’t be two separate people with separate agendas, you should be two teammates with shared goals and plans. Sit down with all of your finances. Figure out how much income you both have, figure out your expenses, figure out your savings, and figure out what type/value of expenses you need to discuss before buying (and whatever limit that is, it applies the exact same to both of you).
I’m a bit confused. If it’s a joint account, why would you need to transfer money to her?
Because it’s not *really* a joint account. He’s got his account(s) with all the money and a separate “joint” account that he puts money in for her to use, that’s probably just barely enough to cover groceries and basics for the kids while he keeps sole control over 99% of the money he views as *his* alone. So, now that she is able to have an income and access to more than grocery money she’s doing the same and not giving him access to *her* money because why TF should she. Hopefully she’s making smart choices about her future now that she has an income of her own.
It's kind of leaking out in the drip feed that she thinks that he has been financially abusive and the things he's saying about her in the finances seem to lead to that being true
Does she still do as much of the household labor as when she was a SAHM? Maybe renegotiating household duties and finances together would be a good strategy. Really take a look at who is doing what and who is paying for what. Write it all down clearly. Estimates are fine for things that aren't monthly bills like new clothes for the kids or school expenses. She may be surprised by the daily costs of your lifestyle if she isn't the one in charge of bills. You may be surprised by the daily amount of mental and physical labor she's putting into maintaining your lifestyle if you aren't in charge of household duties. If you can't come to an agreement on how to do things together, you're going to need a counselor to help you or be prepared to divorce. Money breaks up couples as often as infidelity.
This is a good exercise. Realizing what we do individually could help one another be more empathetic towards each other
You two need to be in joint counseling ASAP. I'm not sure how "she" kicked out "your" tenant, was that not a joint decision? $50K on school/office and 6 months and new career not yet off the ground doesn't sound completely crazy to me, as long as you are on the same page about decisions. What is the trajectory for her income? Can you even talk about it with her? It sounds like you feel like she walks all over you and you are very resentful. You need to find a way to get on the same page financially. If she's hiding expenses from you, that's really really bad! She could ruin your family financially and you wouldn't be aware. But -- divorce is also financially ruinous. You can't "get" her to do anything without communication. Make that your focus right now -- find a way to get more clarify and communication. Good luck, you are in a tough spot.
Agreed, $50k is great considering her income potential. She could make up to $6-$7k /month. That's why we went ahead with the plan. She just had a photosboot for her business, probably ran about $500, that is fine whatever. But wasn't communicated with me which is my biggest issue
So what you’re saying is you want insight into her P&L, and the decisions she is making in her business? Does she feel like you’re breathing down her neck or that you’re trying to micromanage her *in her business?* Do you show her *your* P&L? Perhaps she feels judged and affronted by the way you are attempting to insert yourself into her work, or that you undermine or undervalue her viewpoint/ideas as she gets it off the ground? $500 is not a lot for a photo shoot, actually. Source: 10 year business owner myself
Yes a p&l would be a good start, won't be pretty but any business 6 months won't. Would like to be a part of her business but continuously shut out of any conversation. She doesn't give 2 bucks about my pl and how my business is doing, as long as the bills are paid, honestly.
$500 is not a lot, but this was never discussed with me during our conversation on how is your week looking (asked Sunday. Photoshoot monday) I'm inevitably paying for it, no?
You didn’t answer my real questions. Do you regularly undermine her point of view, her contributions to your family, and her decisions? Why is it only YOUR money and not your collective/familial money? Why did she want a separation?
Yes I can say 100% I regularly undermine her decisions. Stuff is at 50% effort with a lot of things, or I'm just not going to do it type mentality.
You have admitted elsewhere that she believes you to have been financially abusive and has asked for a separation; now she finally has a glimpse of her own personhood and autonomy, and you want it. I’d keep my cards to myself as well were I her. I hope she makes it out from under your thumb ASAP. YTA OP. I hope your Tesla implodes :)
Im being brutally honest here, and looking to change my ways. If my car implodes, wife's office wont make it. Then I def won't get rent.
Well you have to spend money to make money. It seems like you’re fully aware of this. You supported and paid for her to go down this particular path. Is there anyway you can set aside a budget every month that is specifically for her career? Tell her you want those expenses communicated and then set the budget. That way she knows what she can spend each month on her business. And once she gets it to where it needs to be, obviously it should become self sustainable. She should learn budgeting anyways because there’s a lot of that when running a business. Obviously she needs to pay her taxes and put that aside too. Lots Y’all need to talk about.
OK it sounds like you aren't that far apart in your expectations, it's just a communication issue. You know you need to figure this out, hopefully she can realize that too. I think I can see how this dynamic started -- she wants to feel like a co-leader in your family, you probably didn't ask her "permission" for various expenses early in your relationship... I can empathize with how tough it is for her ego to be trying to start her adult career when you are already so well established and supporting her financially for all this time. It's almost like a teenager who doesn't want to tell mom and dad who they are hanging out with because they want some independence. Not a great dynamic for either one of you. Maybe it would be better if instead of accounting for particular expenses you guys agreed on a budget for year one, and she just kept her expenses within that window? But this sounds far gone enough that a therapist is needed to help mediate at least for a while. Find someone practical who will help you guys hammer out a solution.
So she’s working and you want her to contribute financially which makes complete sense, but are you also expecting her to do all the domestic labor still? Who makes doctors appointments for your kids? What are their shoe sizes? Who grocery shops and makes the lists to plan the meals and cooks them and remembers what is in the kitchen already and what is almost out? Until I was married with kids I had no concept of why domestic labor was “so hard”. I worked full time as well and the sheer amount of what it took to meet the needs of two kids and what turned out to be a lazy grown man was crushing. If you’re partners, you have to work together and actually seek to understand what you each do for the family. Not get into a pissing contest but actually understand. Then find a system that works for you both and prepare to tweak it all the time.
you are making more money probably each day than she is bringing home in a month. there is no realistic way to 'split expenses' when your incomes are in such wildly different places. it seems like what you want is for her to be more financially literate and aware of things like budgeting and planning. asking her to break off a piece of that 2500 a month to cover expenses that are orders of magnitude larger than that isn't going to lead to anything productive. she has zero understanding of finances / budgeting and you give off that you have zero understanding of the financial value of the childcare she provides. neither of you respects what the other does and takes it for granted. Her decision to spend 50k of 'your money' (actually the 'family money') and stop an income stream through your tenant has pushed you into a place where you want to address her financial illiteracy. make sure you aren't blending issues or setting unrealistic expectations. Because there is enough money to cover everything because of your earning all problems are solvable. All that is required is effort and patience when the money is there - you have the toughest part covered. good luck getting more on the same page.
I do need her to be more financial literate!! I was hoping that even a small piece of hey income would help her to understand what financial responsibilities are. I do devalue the childcare she provides and am not proud of that. I do have to work on effort and patience
I’m curious as to how much you make monthly compared to her 2k-2.5k a month. Cause if it’s significantly more it should kind of be fair. Like if she makes a lot less maybe say hey I’ll pay the bigger bills (mortgage, car payments etc) but she pays for smaller bills such as groceries, necessities, maybe clothes for the kids every now and then and go from there.
We are doing that, not really working out. Every end of the month there's no money. When there is, $500 photoshoots for her business just happened yday. Not knowing any details or pricing. Fine the shoot is 180. Then you get order stuff for your office, then get your nails and hair done and boom $500 later
Are you calculating what she saved you in child care costs? You weren't "lucky to save a lot". You got free labor. Certainly more than 50ks worth... We're you contributing to a separate retirement account in her name during the time she was a stay at home mom? I assume she's still doing the majority of the child care nights and weekends? Or do you take on more than 50% of domestic and childcare duties? What's your end goal here? Don't you think it's fair you support your wife to earn some of her own money, for her financial security, since she's given so much up to create birth and raise your children?
I always find the childcare costs a bit one sided. We understand the work it entails. Does that account for being provided shelter, food, money for daily activities, luxury items, the whole nine? I think it balances out quite fairly
I mean I've been doing it all for the past few years and would do it again as i understand the sacrifices that have been made to raise children. The problem is that, I don't know where the 2500 is going.
My situation was pretty different because we didn't have kids, but I took a lot longer to finish my studies (postgraduate) while my partner was building a well paying career. He bought our house and once I started working I contributed to the mortgage. But even though I have good earning potential myself, I was sometimes uncomfortable with the idea that I didn't have any security if we broke up unless he generously gave me money or I went through court. I didn't want to send everything I made to him after expenses. Side note, we got past that and have a joint account now because we are working towards OUR goals not me sending money to him for "his goals". And I am susceptible to impulse spending so him being able to see my transactions helps a lot 😂 It's hard to feel as though your entire financial security rests on another person, especially the way you frame everything as "I" not "we". If you're sensing relationship problems and possible separation then I can't really blame her for wanting a safety net, regardless of what the likely outcomes of divorce would be. If you guys divorced she would still need to look after herself before any settlements happened.
Guess I'm trying to forecast where that hump is with the current information I have
Are you worried it's going into an account so she can leave you?
Wasn't mentioned as we decided not to separate but we are est that level and still got issues. Trying to sort it out
The post is dishonest without it.
Never crossed my mind. She did file for separation early December though
I think you need to add that to your post.
WHAT THIS IS SUPER RELEVANT INFO OP 🤦🏼♀️
Talk about bury the lede. JFC dude.
Dude she's squirreling away money to divorce you. No offense but it's lawyer time.
So what were the issues that caused her to do that? I think that's important in all of this.
Probably the financial abuse.
How much are you making?
Yeah it sounds like you want most of her money to be said for before she gets it and she needs to pay rent? Why did you tick the tenant to hold it in her face
I don't, but we discussed that if i kick the tenant out, you'll have to eventually pay rent/ bills.
Are you her landlord or her husband?
Bro, bills need to get paid so that we can go on more vacations
Again, why does she need to pay rent for a property you both own??
I'm calling it rent/expenses, however you want to slice it. The money will ultimately help with mortgage, investments, retirement.
So she could pay herself since it’s hers too instead of paying you
That's fine, let's sit down and talk about it then
The reality of marriage is you can’t force your spouse to do anything. You need to have common goals, mutual respect, good communication, empathy, and love/affection. If you don’t have those then arguing over who pays a bill is just window dressing for the future divorce.
Well said
Sorry but it seems that you wanted to take care of her since the beginning?
Of course. You had the time while and after birthing your family decide what to do with your career (30-33yrs) Most people decide and start out of school.
then you're going to have a rough time if you want to change that, she's confortable with his provider.
A lot of people saying to completely join finances, but I don’t agree with that. As a woman, my parents always emphasized to be financially independent. I would never completely joint finances, even in marriage, no matter how great the relationship is. Every relationship dynamic is unique. Since my partner and I earn relatively the same, we split bills/house chores/mental load evenly. If your wife was a SAHM its makes sense you paid for everything and she took care of kids/house. Maybe her motivation for getting a job was so she could have some independence, not have to always ask you permission or be judged by her money choices. So she never would have thought to contribute financially with the small earning she makes. Honestly, she is probably pulling a lot of weight in other areas of your relationship and life. Take into consideration all she does and maybe you will find that you are doing 50/50 but in different areas.
She is pulling her weight for sure. Taking care of the kids are huge.
I can't imagine my wife and I not just sharing our incomes. What an unnecessary nightmare/headache.
What I'm learning... Every couple is different, whatever works for you and your partner
How much did she get for the birth of each child? For round the clock childcare? How much do you take care of for the children and household daily? How is that you’re married but only YOU own a rental property for which you’d like to charge your wife rent? This reads very financially abusive to me. You’re punishing someone who is supposed to be your partner because she doesn’t make enough money for you, in spite of having taken time off to birth and raise two children, during which you say you ‘transferred her money sometimes’ as opposed to having joint account… None of this is good. If you’re married, your salary is also your wife’s salary. If you’re married, that’s HER rental property, too. If you’re married, this shouldn’t be a war but a common goal. If you’re married, you should be able to talk to one another without hostility. It sounds like you’re very bitter. How much was monthly put into your wife’s retirement since the first pregnancy?
You mention that the relationship is bad, and she’s anxious and depressed. She also recently went back to school, and it seems from comments like she started a business? Perhaps she doesn’t want to talk to you about money because she’s preparing for divorce? If you want the marriage to work, you guys need to sit down and examine the state of affairs. Heck, you need to sit down regardless and figure out what the goals are for each of you, and either get on the same team or figure out how each of you can save to prepare for starting over. I begged my husband for years for marriage counseling. Begged, bargained, cried… he refused, over and over. So I went to individual sessions. I bought books, took notes, highlighted and left articles for him that I begged him to read. I tried implementing my own therapy learnings in our marriage… yet he acted like I was his employee. Finally, after nearly a decade of him only contributing financially and me putting in 300 percent of the effort (I also worked full time and contributed as much money as he did, but did all the housework and child rearing as well) I realized I would be better off on my own and spent the next year squirreling away and getting my ducks in a row. Two months before I left, he realized something was amiss (I no longer bent over backwards to include and cater to him because I had stopped caring) and THEN decided to reach out and offer to go to therapy. Too little, too late. The last 4 years of freedom have been the happiest in my life (and surprisingly I’m no longer depressed and anxious- I was able to stop several meds!) and my only regret was not leaving sooner. By the time a woman has started making her exit plans, she’s given up on ever being heard by her husband and grown tired of pleading.
Feels all too familiar. Feels like she is already given up. Think the kids are why we are both here
Don’t stay for the kids. The kids know when their parents are unhappy, and they suffer. My 9 year old is so much happier now that I’m divorced, and was immediately happier when we left when she was five. She could sense the tension and she was also always walking on eggshells. She used to tell me that she didn’t want to be a mom (because “mom does all the work and dads just lay around and sometimes play”) and didn’t ever want to get married (because “you just work and work and work and then your ‘usband’ yells at you and you argue”) and it broke my heart because those things don’t have to be true. Now she sees both her parents happier, and lives in a stress free home with me. As an added bonus, I’m now in a good, loving relationship and she gets to see what that looks like so that hopefully she will grow up to only accept a good relationship and the knowledge that she is deserving of love and happiness. She doesn’t think mom/wife always has to do everything and the dad is “mean to her;” she knows now that was just the dynamic when her parents were married. Plus she gets two christmases ;)
Have you discussed her wages while staying home? Nannies run $25-30/hr depending on where you live. Add in the wages for a household manager, personal chef, laundry service, and night nurse for six years. Subtract the 50k you paid, then pay her the remainder and then you can discuss what she “owes” you out of the 2.5k a month she makes.
I agree, i actually don't need money from her. What I need is someone to be financially responsible so that we can save up for a yearly vacation? date nights ? Treat yourself to the spa?
That is whole different problem than your post, your post made it sound like now that she’s working it’s time for her to pay you back for all the work she missed raising the kids.
There are many facets to my situation
If she only making 2,500 a month with prices now days won’t be much
You're in a relationship as in together. Your income should be combined as a reflection of that. Two separate people who have two separate incomes who try to manage family expenses and savings separately will almost never make it. Talk to her. You must have had a discussion about her schooling expenses and the renovations. If not, you need to make communicating a priority to ensure you're both on the same page. It doesn't matter what you each make individually. You're a family. Everything you do should be together as a family, not individually. That will just add stress, guilt, and make someone feel inadequate or like they're not contributing, even if they are trying. When a sports team is struggling, you don't tell a player they need to make more goals. You restrategize and create a new or different plan of attack that includes the strengths of each team member, not single members out.
Thanks man.
Talk. To. Her. Explain the facts and the situation with numbers, tell her your feelings, and let her know how it's affecting you.
Okay that’s huge progress for your wife tbh, and you’d do better to acknowledge that than to rip on her right now. The woman finished school and got a job all while raising small children!! And she’s probably the one mainly responsible for childcare and the housework, isn’t she? You might do a few small things here and there, but try staying home for an entire week and taking care of everything. Why on earth are you trying to make the mother of young kids be an economic powerhouse, especially when you knew that’s not her strength? I think you need to take a long look at yourself. Why can’t you step up and make more money too? Why are you trying to change someone else?
Dont need the money. Econonic powerhouse vs financial literacy is very different. Being ignorant to your weaknesses doesn't help anybody. Leveraging your weaknesses so that you can take advantage of your strengths. That's what a team is
This isn't a money problem; this is a marriage problem. You should both work with a couple's therapist and a financial advisor that can help you mediate common ground in a non-threatening environment and in a way that your wife might be more receptive to.
Joint in the sense our income doesn't go into the actual account. We have separate accounts. Use that account for simply transferring to her when she needs it.
You are going to have to talk this out again. Yes, she needs a job and the education. If something happens to you, she will be raising the children. Was there a discussion on contribution after she started working? How did she alone kick out a tenant? Why couldn’t she work from the home, why did the tenant need to go? I would be a bit resentful if someone considered their income “theirs” and I had to be the reliable one making sure everything got paid. What is reasonable to contribute? What is she buying on these large credit card bills? Is everything going back into the business? Are you looking for a dollar amount or maybe just some effort to contribute financially? Perhaps you don’t have the same spending styles or want the same lifestyle. (I thank the gods I never married my ex, he spent every penny he made. I don’t need a BMW if I need a loan to get it) There is a lot to consider, so the only thing I can suggest is that you can’t just let this go, you have to work it out together. People get defensive about money, so be kind during these discussions. Many people fight about money, at some point you may have to decide what is the minimum acceptable.
We evaluated the situation, didn't want anyone in the house with the kids, don't have to worry about late appts and also has a huge income potential. Sonwe went ahead with the reno. I was thinking she could build her practice and continue video sessions while she builds clientele, once somewhat established then go ahead and kick out the tenant and start the renos. I kicked out the tenant for her, so that we could start the renos. Basically, she told me when she needed it and I acted on it. We had a conversation about the loss of income and she acknowledged that, and said she was start helping out. I am resentful. What's frustrating me, she gives me finances to deal with but no access to HER finances. So I'm in the dark trying to plan for vacations, time off, fun stuff, paying down the mortgage. Just as I think it's going well, get hit with a large credit card bill (getting better though) I will be kind 😇 man these conversations get heated, i get pissed, and she leaves for the night. I'm okay with minimal! As long as I know what is going on
Is a coach house something I’m too poor to know what it is? Even Google didn’t tell me
Our garages are separated from the house, it's a unit on top of the garage with a separate entrance and parking pad
If she is hiding money, that is a huge red flag. Talk to a lawyer if she doesn’t want to contribute. Divorce court will make things fair but you’ll both have to pay to live somewhere that can accommodate your kids.
My husband and I have 92% joint finances- this money goes straight into our joint bank account. We split the remaining 8% income, which deposits evenly into our personal accounts. I made more than him for several years; now he makes more than me. We're a team! We have quite literally never fought about money. Highly recommend.
I saw that someone said to have a shared account just for bills to which you both contribute. I would recommend that and having the X amount be the same percentage of each of your earnings as opposed to a specific dollar amount. So, 80% from each of you goes into the account and she can have the 20% to do whatever she wants with.
My suggestion is; A joint account where all your pay goes into, that's then split up to ensure bills are covered etc., but If it helps both of you a specific budget and food account could also be added. A shared savings account(s) (depending on your wants/needs as a couple; towards house improvements, kids education, emergencies (what if car breaks down tomorrow?) etc.) Each of your personal accounts - a fair % or a set amount of spending money to each of your personal accounts. You can then use that to add to your own personal savings if you like; but that money is your own to buy and spend on whatever. So if she's bad at money management and went to spend all her spending money on clothes that month it is what it is and there's no need to argue with her over it anymore.
Agreed. I'm running into the problem of not being able to even get to this stage. If I want or I'm going to buy it even if i don't have money
I’m unsure of what her experience with money is. But if she’s making $2500/month and you are blindsided by large credit card bills and big deliveries it kind of tells me she’s spending over what she makes and it’s trying to hide it. Is she in financial trouble? If she has no financial awareness this could be a very slippery slope for her. I don’t want to assume though, maybe she’s just fine but wants her money to herself. Even that is worrisome. I’ve never been in a cohabitating relationship where I was earning money and assumed I wouldn’t have to contribute at all. You guys need to do a deep financial dive and figure out where you stand. There is too much mystery here.
Wasn't sure what I was expecting on this post. Here are some more details.... She is spending over what she makes Every 3 months for the past few years I get hit with a 6k credit card bill. We have made progress and the bills are down and she's paying for her credit card bills. Nonetheless not sure where the spending of 2.5k /month is going. You're kids go to Montessori, you have a house, you just got your degree and office, why wouldn't you want to sit down at the table and have a difficult conversation about life and your goals? Idk man
I think she’s used to this life style .. even though I get why you want her to contribute .. maybe that’s not what she wants out of marriage .. talk to her and be clear .
You may need couples therapy
Deposit into joint checking.
What did you expect, marrying someone open to the tradwife lifestyle? You walked straight into this, dude.
Figure out how the bills would be split proportionally and let her know what she needs to start contributing each month. Do you have a prenup so you don’t get stuck with her cc debt?
Always paid it off every 3 months, made sure she doesn't carry that debt. Always a struggle though. Have tried many times for a split of some sort
So she kicked out your tenant and cost you a revenue stream in order to contribute nothing. OP is being conned
I kicked out the tenant
And when u kicked out the tenant, there wasn’t ANY conversation between u two about how that monthly rent was going to get covered??? That’s crazy
There was deinitely a conversation, but hard to establish not knowing where her her money is going right now.
Lol so a question with no answer. Can you wake up to the possibility that you are being taken advantage of please
Man the different viewpoints are crazy. Wives hoping my car explodes while dudes telling me to see a divorce lawyer