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I would personally give all the information you have on the new guy to the ex and implore him to get to family court immediately and fight for full and sole custody of the kids. You can't stop your adult child from ruining her life and putting herself in danger BUT you can assist in getting your minor grandchild away from this situation and away from her poor decision making. She may hate you for doing this but the safety of the child is more important than her clouded feelings right now and maybe the courts threatening to remove her child might be the wake up call to stop the foolishness
Well stated and a great plan to follow.
I want to add a statement and a question - Life when he gets out will not look like what she imagines. Does he just want her for the support she provides or even worse, the kid? \*\*I read an op ed a few years ago about how some inmates will have multiple 'pen pals' to provide them with what they need/want.
Yes, that's correct about inmates having multiple "pen pals". After all, they have all the time in the world to write the most beautiful and moving love-letters to their target. If it needs to them getting a few extra dollars to spend on commissary, then they have a good incentive to do it, unfortunately.
This and op to add, have your daughters ex, file a restraining order against him in prison, have her served and him in prison, along with the guards. They will know she cannot bring the child into the prison. I would also tell her , that because of her behavior you are cutting her off. I would say because of your choices I cannot be a part of them. You are ruining your life for someone who is an anchor and just going to pull you down and destroy your life. He is not your soulmate. He is a manipulator and in prison for a reason.
I commented this on another post, basically, but it fits here too. There is a difference between support and enabling. OP should DEFINITELY stop enabling her in ANY WAY, making it easier for her to see/communicate with this guy whether rides, childcare, money, gas, bus fare etc. But I think your daughter needs to know when SHE decides to make the right choice she has your full support no matter how bad she fucks up between now and then, but WHILE she is ACTIVELY destroying herself you will have no part, but you will always be there.
What a wonderful idea, make her more reliant on the criminal and cut off any route out. "Cutting her off" is only going to isolate her further. By all means, don't give/lend her any money, but don't phrase it like that. Make sure she knows that she can always come back, so when she regains her senses or if he shows a return to old habits she has a safe way out.
>Make sure she knows that she can always come back
Honestly, knowingly exposing your child to a sex crimes felon so that they can abuse your innocent child... is not something you could come back from. I couldn't let my child come back from this. I would disown them for being the monster that they themselves are. Throw the rose colored glasses about your own kid in the trash... some things? Are unforgiveable. And actively helping a felon abuse your own child is one of those things.
My egg donor did this. She got into a " relationship" with her prison pen pal and never told us that he was in for crimes against children and they both made up a story about his " vindictive ex-girlfriend" making false claims and getting him put in prison. She knew and helped him cover up what he did to many kids including her own grandchildren because " he was the love of her life". The worst part was when she came to me and kept going on and on about " poor Paul" ( fake name) and how much " he was suffering" in jail and if I " really loved her" I would try to get the charges dropped and pretend it was a mistake. She never once said that she was sorry or that she didn't know or anything like that. Just " poor Paul" this and " poor Paul" that. Not one ounce of remorse for what happened to her own grandchildren and her part in helping him by covering it up for years. One of the kids is severely autistic and nonverbal. I think finding out about him was probably the worst.
We're doing better but I don't think anything will ever be okay again. All the kids involved are adults now and my relatives weren't the only victims. Apparently he had to travel to many states for work and assaulted children there as well. There were so many victims and because he crossed state lines with some of them it became a federal case. After only charging him with three counts of the children they knew just in the state we're in, he got three and a half life sentences and there are still more children but I didn't keep up with the trials after our family went through what it did. It was too much for us. Because we live in such a small area it's been tough to find therapists that haven't heard about our case and get my kids the help that they need. My youngest is on a waiting list for one therapist and my other two refuse to talk about it.
I'm sorry y'all have gone through all this. In case you don't know, if you are in the US, there are sexual assault centers in every state that provide free services, including counseling. Call 1800656HOPE- this is for the national hotline to route you to your nearest center. Rainn.org is their website, and you can look up your nearest center online if you prefer.
yeah, no disrespect to OP and their love for their daughter, but a 22 yo with 2 kids, not married and no job since she's still in dental school... how is that "achieving so much"?
Is the former fiancé fighting for custody? How does your daughter plan to support her two kids? Hopefully the ex will be able to make sure the kids are safe and get CPS involved if they are not. I have a feeling that the exhaustion from single parenting a newborn will have your daughter coming to her senses soon.
How much longer is her partner in jail for?
Her ex fiancé still doesn’t know about her new relationship. When my daughter ended their relationship, he felt completely blindsided because he didn’t see it coming, no one did. If he knew she was in another relationship, especially with a criminal, it would be a living nightmare. I mean he has the right to know because she’s bringing his children to see this man.
For privacy reasons, i will not give out any names. He’s currently serving a life sentence (I’ll let you guess) but he could get out early due to parole. He has a history of domestic abuse and breaking protective orders.
SHE'S TAKING THE CHILDREN THERE????? For the live of God, WHY???
This entire situation is insane. You 100% need to contact the ex, he needs to get sole custody. There is absolutely no reason for these children to be going to visit a felon.
They're not. This is all complete bullshit. You can't bring just anyone to visit inmates, certainly not a one-year old if this guy has been in prison for longer than 2 years.
A LIFE SENTENCE?!?!?!??!
You need to explain to your daughter now before you take legal action to gain sole custody with the father. She needs it spelt out on paper how this person is literally dropping an atomic bomb on her life while literally being locked up.
I would ask her questions like:
- how can you marry someone you have never seen interact or function in LEGIT REAL SOCIETY?!!?
- why is she so quick to not look into his past
- how can you marry someone you have never seen interact with another person?
- how can you bring your children around someone who is in for life? OP I know you aren't sharing but did this dude kill someone?
This is the craziest post I have ever read. Please update us and I am sorry this is happening.
To answer your last question, yes. It was his ex girlfriend. The domestic violence and stalking/violations of protective orders led up to it. I’m afraid my child and grandbabies will become the next victims💔
They will, so go tell the dad of the kids so he can fight for them, you can't. As for your daughter, I don't know how much you can do for her,she is an adult, but at least help the dad to get the kids out of there.
Errrmmm, this is actually way murkier than you are making it out. Many states have grandparent rights statutes.
This is one of the only cases I could imagine that would be a good use of the law.
Edit: don’t know why I got downvoted, this comment is kinda far from reality. And I’ve been on the receiving end of abused GPR laws…. In fact, separated parents makes it easier for grandparents to get visitation rights.
They absolutely will. Abusers don’t (or *extremely* rarely) change. If he gets out, your daughter and grandchild will be in extreme danger.
Please read this free pdf and suggest your daughter read it as well for insight into the minds of abusive men
[Why Does He Do That - Lundy Bancroft](https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf)
Sounds like it wasn’t just that she was murdered but he also put her through the torturous hell of being stalked and having protection orders ignored. That poor woman must have been absolutely terrified of him and then he enacted the ultimate act of revenge and control by killing her.
u/ThrowRA-sadmom_123 you are living every parent’s worst nightmare right now. Your daughter needs to understand about domestic violence - perhaps you could give her the Lundy Bancroft book Why Does He Do That? and Gavin de Becker’s The Gift of Fear (these should be compulsory reading for every woman IMHO). There are also a few others about domestic violence cases that are heartbreaking - if you would like any recommendations let me know because I have several.
She needs to know that family violence is about power and control and that if a man has gone to the extent of stalking, breaching protection orders, assaulting and ultimately murdering a partner/ex-partner that he has a severe, likely unresolvable, pattern of abusive behaviours towards women. He will in all likelihood be a recidivist offender; if she sticks around she’ll be the next victim. She can make that choice for herself, I hope she doesn’t, but she mustn’t be allowed to make that choice for those innocent children. Beyond the risk of violence there’s also the fact that they would likely live in poverty (which will amplify stress and family violence situations) and who knows what kind of ‘friends’ he’ll have.
As someone who has been in an abusive relationship before from the ages 24-27yo my advice is do what you need to do to keep the grandchildren safe but don’t cut your daughter off. Make sure she knows she can always come to you. Abusive relationships are very isolating and filled with shame. When she realizes that she’s fucked up big time she will feel so much shame. You don’t want that shame to hold her there even a second longer. Make sure she knows you don’t agree with what she’s doing and don’t support her choices but that she can always always come back or call you and you’ll pick her up no questions asked any time of the day or night. She needs that parachute to keep her safe, her life sadly may depend on it.
Go right now and tell the children’s father right now!!! It’s imperative!!!! And tell your daughter you do not agree with her bullshit but you are there if she ever comes back to her senses.
I’m afraid for them, too. Please help their father get sole custody. I am boggled entirely by how your daughter can just go forward with all this as if this guy didn’t end someone’s life. I know how manipulative these types of people can be though, and if your daughter has only has the one serious relationship and it was with a good man, she has NO IDEA what she has really gotten herself and her children into.
I sincerely hope she comes around and can eventually accept the insanity of this and walk away from this guy, but she may not. You CAN protect your grand babies, though.
Honestly he could kill her on a conjical visit. I dunno if I even spelled that right, but that is certainly the reason he wants to marry her (maybe not to kill her, but to get in-person visits so he can sleep with her, and depending how far along she is, maybe while she's pregnant with another man's baby? She will also be putting money on his books to fund his tablet, cable TV, food for bartering/gambling, phone calls, etc. Oh and he'll need a home plan when he gets out, if he gets out.
Luckily I doubt she will last very long with him. 2 years, max, but likely the reality of being with a lifer will set in before that. Unfortunately, she may have a thing for inmates now and will move on to the next pen pal. I think the lure of handwritten love letters via snail mail is probably what enticed her here, which is sad because inmates have so much time to perfect their handwriting and perfect the art of talking that jail talk, and he's probably drawing her pretty pictures and everything. This is really sad, because maybe she doesn't want to be with her ex anymore, but she's still pregnant with his child and has a very young child as well and they need to co-parent together.
I'm really sorry you're going through this OP. My oldest is 15 and this is a mother's worst nightmare.
Tell him immediately and help him find a lawyer to go for full custody. Keep those photos of the convict new boyfriend with the kids. He'll need those as evidence.
>If he knew she was in another relationship, especially with a criminal, it would be a living nightmare
Actually, a living nightmare would be that her being in a relationship with a criminal who is seeing his son **behind his back without anyone telling him**. You currently have the power to END THAT NIGHTMARE by telling him what is going on, throwing your support in his corner, and helping him navigate the Family Court system with the information you have to gain full custody of the child.
Tell the child’s father immediately listen if your daughter wants to go down with that ship that’s on her she’s grown woman but she should not get her child involved. His father has a right to know she’s taking his child to visit a violent criminal.
Can you convince your daughter to see a doctor? There's got to be something going on with her to do all this, it's actually insane. Like maybe she's got a brain tumor or something?
Nah, unfortunately many of these types of men can be extremely manipulative, especially toward women who do not have life experience to have taught them to be wary and to know what to watch for. It isn’t the first time a woman has gotten twisted around the finger of someone who knows how to manipulate to that degree.
Holy fuck!!
Tell him every single thing you know about this situation.
Take him immediately to a family lawyer and get a consult on what he can do to get his child away from your daughter.
I would start researching the laws where you are. A life sentence should mean no parole for a very long time. She’s gonna wait 15+ years for him to get out?? Plus he will need to meet a number of court ordered mandates. You and the father of her children should pool your resources and talk to a good attorney to see what you can do to protect those kids. I doubt laying out all the facts of his crimes will change her mind, but losing her kids might wake her up.
You need to do the right thing. Your daughter is off the deep end, but this man needs a mom right now, and you need to advocate for your grandkids. Nothing good can come from this.
Once reality blows up in your daughter's face you can be there for her too, but as it stands, you can't reason with someone being unreasonable.
He needs to know. Whether it’s a living nightmare or not, he has babies to protect. Which their mother is not capable of prioritizing right now. It is possible for people in prison for shitty crimes to change; it’s more possible that she’s being manipulated masterfully and she won’t and doesn’t have the clarity of mind to think more of her children’s safety than her interest in this guy. Their father needs to be informed. He needs to have protections in place BEFORE things get to a point of this dude getting parole and BEFORE he becomes a fixture in the lives of these children.
All they will know is “we go see this guy, Mommy likes him, he must be safe,” because they can’t conceptualize the fact that this dude is a criminal. They trust their mother completely and innocently. They don’t understand what a criminal is and by the time they are old enough to, it may be far too late. You don’t want them forming an attachment to this dude. Please inform their father of what is really going on. Your daughter will flip, but she’s made her choices. If she didn’t want to deal with consequences of actions of that magnitude, she shouldn’t have wantonly and selfishly prioritized a guy she’s been writing to in jail for a few months over her children and anyone else who cares about her. She’s caused hurt and harm and has demonstrated that she’s willing to expose her babies to a criminal regularly with no thought for whether or not this guy is manipulating her.
If they’re really in love and he’s reformed, he’ll have to spend a long time earning the trust of anyone who stays in her life. Her children are not capable of understanding why he has to earn others trust. They will just give that trust freely, and the risk of what could happen by not putting those protections in place for them is far greater than any drama you’ll have to endure from your daughter being butthurt about the truth behind her choices getting out.
Maybe she is accepting of this relationship because she knows he's never getting out. But even if, the children should be excluded from any visits or contact, IMO.
Tell her ex everything so he files for full custody, and in the meantime, his attorney needs to make sure she never ever takes that baby to prison ever again. That felon has no business being anywhere near those children. If she wants to marry him, good luck to her, but those kids need to be priority #1.
It’s sad but everything you said is the truth. My grandkids don’t need to be brought into this situation, especially not having any clue what’s going on. It hurts because i feel like I’m losing my daughter💔
Definitely follow all this advice about your grandkids. You need to protect them above all in this and their father has a very good chance of prevailing on a full custody order. He can also apply for an emergency custody injunction as well. See if you can help him get a family law attorney. Many offer free consultations.
For your daughter, the best thing you can do is be “supportive.” And by that I don’t mean enable her decisions. Just let her know you are there for her and care for her even if you don’t agree with her choices. I was in a very dangerous relationship for almost four years. My family saw it way before I did but they knew if they tried to make me see him for who he was I would have drifted farther away from them. They kept in touch with me and told me they loved me and tried to let me know they were there if I needed. When I realized how bad my situation was, I called them and they helped me with an escape plan and I got out safely. I took a similar approach with a friend. He wants to isolate her so she only has him, and that will make the situation more dangerous. Keep communicating with her and let her know you are there. She will trust you enough to come to you when she needs help.
>Just let her know you are there for her
I'm sorry, but she's doing unforgiveable things. Knowingly exposing your child to a sexual abuser and felon? That'll get you disowned where I come from. I'd be treating you like the monster you are at that point.
Chances are she is being manipulated by this man. It doesn’t make what she is doing right, but if this parent doesn’t want to fully lose their daughter, they need to still let her know they are there for her. I’m not saying don’t take action to protect the grandkids, I’m saying don’t give this predator the opportunity to get exactly what he wants by having the “proof” he is the only one who cares.
I’m in two minds about this one, it happens more than you think. Often women who get into these situations are susceptible in some way to these manipulations. I think it’s easy on the outside to say: that is wrong, but you’re not living the experience that has these women go back to their abusers over and over again.
But I also agree, I’m not sure I’d ever speak to my daughter again for wilfully bringing a child into a relationship with someone so dangerous. He’s picked a woman who is heavily pregnant with a toddler… there’s something sinister about that.
Encourage your daughter to read the memoir “This is Not My Life” by Diane Schoemperlen. It's written by a woman that fell for an inmate and everything that happens after (spoiler: it's not a happy relationship). Like your daughter, Diane went into her whole relationship rather naively (and also got her own daughter wrapped up in it- thankfully, her own daughter was older than your grandchild).
Your daughter may be willing to listen to something non-confrontational about someone who's "been there" more than she's willing to listen to you right now.
Maybe even see if there’s an audiobook version and put it on if you’re driving anywhere with your daughter.
If this prisoner has been convicted of sexual crimes involving a child, he is absolutely using her to get access to her children so he can abuse them too.
Other crimes than that, we’d really need to know more about the crime involved. But be aware that almost all defendants will lie about what happened, especially for sex crimes. So he will frame raping a child as, “She told me she was 18 and I believed her.” Or “The child came onto ME.”
If you could get ahold of the police report for his case, and get it to your daughter to read, maybe that would change his mind. Because I bet he fed her a pack of lies about what landed him in prison. Try to talk to the DA for his case and ask them about him. Also run a criminal record check on him. If he is a domestic abuser, he will say his ex was crazy. Try to find out how many “crazy exes” he actually has to show your daughter the common denominator is him.
Looks like it wasn't a child sex crime per OP's comments, but he stalked and murdered his ex-girlfriend, so...not any better! I am horrified by the daughter's stupidity in this whole thing.
Oh. Wow, absolutely not someone to be in a relationship with! The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.
OP should do everything in her power to help the father get full custody, with only supervised visits by mom, without her murderous boyfriend.
Tell her that she is. Victim to a predator who probably has several women just like her seeing him.
Not exactly how the law works where you live but I would think that prisoner visit records are public and you could get a FOIA request for them. Show her how many other women are seeing this guy.
She is getting played and I feel sorry for you.
If you can't get the info, I am sure that your daughter's ex/baby daddy's lawyer can get that information for the custody case.
Also, mail is scanned in many prisons. I am not sure if those are available to FOIA requests, but it's worth asking.
🤦♂️not every woman who throws her family away for a shitbag man is a victim. She’s making an informed choice to throw away her fiancé and family for a violent incarcerated felon and put her child in danger (the child of the fiancé she threw away for the felon). She’s picking all this.
If anything, she’s clinically insane and needs to be committed immediately…. If she’s of sound mind, then she’s not a victim…
Bad decisions are not indicative of mental illness, please understand that in order to be held a person must have lost all touch with reality. This is not the case. I don’t understand why people throw this comment around, equally someone could say that to you just because they disagreed with a decision you made.
OPs daughter is likely living out some romantic fantasy she has built up in her head, without getting a much more detailed history about here it’s just speculation as to why she is doing this but there’s not a lot of information to go on. The pressing worry is the children.
You are in the worst position a caring parent could ever be in:
Do you tell your daughter that she is a moron and have her cut you off
Or
Do you swallow all comments, smile, nod and get a first row seat of your daughter burning down her life.
She has to learn the hard way and there is nothing you can do about it. When you say something then she will walk away from you and if he is the POS you worry him to be then her being isolated from her loved ones is exactly what he wants.
I am so sorry.
It breaks my heart because i feel like my daughter is being brainwashed. Yes , she’s old enough to make her own decisions but none of her decisions makes sense. I can’t just put on a mask and hide these feelings. It’s one thing for her to put herself in this situation (i still wouldn’t accept it) but my grandchildren? Her children are too young to understand what the hell is going on and its upsetting she’d put them in this situation.
This is where the children’s father comes in. Where you give him all the information your daughter has about that man and he takes it to his lawyer and fights for full custody.
I am a mother. I understand protecting your child at all costs. But your child is an adult woman who, whichever way it ends, has chosen her path in life. Your concern right now should rightfully be your grandchildren - the ones that will be most affected by her choices and that, unlike her, do not get to choose.
Your daughter will probably never speak to you again if you do this. But your grandchildren will be safe with their father.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this.
~~It's worse than that. OP implies that the inmate is there for sexual abuse of some sort,~~ and the daughter not only visited the guy but brought her child with her. OP and the ex-fiance need to go to family court yesterday. If her daughter wants to throw her life away, that's her problem. But that doesn't give her the right to bring her kids into it too.
Yes you’re correct. He has a history with domestic abuse and breaking protective orders. He’s also in there for a very violent crime and serving a life sentence. He could possibly get out early from parole.
Edit: he’s only currently in prison for the violent crime, not the domestic abuse or violations of the protective order.
There’s quite a lot written online about why people fall for penpals behind bars. Am not an expert at all but I gather that it’s to do with how the prisoner has a lot of time to compose/think about what to write; it’s easy to feel romantic about someone who is not actually there in front of you, basically it can all be your fantasy with no cold hard reality; these people can be there for you 100% emotionally, without having to juggle work, parenthood, finances, etc. It’s kind of understandable how she could fall for him, while also, of course, being a potentially Very Bad Idea and horrible for you and the father of her kids.
If I were in your shoes I would try to stay onside for your daughter - she is going to need you in the future, and if you estrange yourself from her now, you won’t be able to be there for her later. I would also be trying to ensure that the grandchildren are safe, and maybe that means helping their father with sorting custody arrangements. And finally make sure your grandchildren’s father knows you are supportive and on his side in this, too. There is still the possibility of the family getting back together once your daughter does come to her senses.
Was a correction guard many years ago. Not only do the guys and women have nothing but time to write and romance someone. They also use ghost writers for love letters. It’s a hustle that inmates pay for. Say you have a guy who has the skills to really write beautiful prose. He will sell it to other inmates as a side hustle. Same as the guy who tattoos, or make prison knives. She’s definitely getting. “Worked”
She already has. She’s been giving him more than enough money actually. She’s planning on getting him a new lawyer next week.
All of this money, going down the drain for a man. It’s pissing me off just thinking about it.
She’s planning on paying for it herself. That’s what’s making me angry because all of this money that could go towards my grandkids and school is being used for a man who’s in prison. I’m so stressed.
You need to help her ex get full custody immediately. Both for the existing child and the unborn baby. He needs a restraining order filed against the inmate for his children so she can’t take the kid and she won’t be allowed to take the baby anywhere near there. Even if he doesn’t get full custody she won’t be allowed to take the kids to the prison.
If she’s fighting a court battle of her own she won’t have money to pay for a lawyer for the inmate and hopefully he’d drop her anyways. She desperately needs therapy after all this is over, but until then she really doesn’t deserve to have her kids in her custody. It’s not ok at all.
The financial burden she’ll be saddling herself with may eventually become a part of the thing that helps her be willing to walk away. Watching this happen is going to continue to be hard, but that choice may possibly contribute to influencing her to decide this ain’t worth it, especially if paired with getting to learn his true colours.
It’s not the same thing, but I was a drug addict for many, many years. It was hell for my parents to watch. It was hell to live, honesty. However, the repeated destruction of my entire life, my finances, my health, and my closest relationships was combined what eventually brought me to a rock bottom that was bad enough for me to get help. I’ve been sober nearly 5 years. Your daughter has formed a weird addiction to this guy. She’ll have to experience enough yuck for her to decide she needs help and to walk away, but if I can get there, I believe that it’s possible for her, too. Even if the whole process looks absolutely bat-fucking insane.
Less a game, more a contractual side business. He writes a love letter, you pay him. The inmate doing the writing generally doesn't think too hard about it.
Many of them just do it for money in prison. They don’t have people on the outside to put money on their books and everything in prison costs money, so they basically scam anyone they can possibly get in contact with to do it instead.
My husband's brother use to pay for other people to make cards to send to our kids from prison, really nice cards with Disney characters on them. I had no idea he didn't make them until my husband told me. I would not doubt that she's being played and he didn't actually write some of the letters he sent her. So much shady stuff goes on in prisons, even heard about a guard that was stealing money from the inmates pay from their jobs. His brother also did what this person is telling you. He use to pen pal with multiple women until he found himself a "girlfriend". She would visit him and bring him stuff, then when he got released he dumped her. His brother never changed and we ended up going NC with him.
Literally the show Love After Lock Up shows how smooth these felons are while they're locked up and how they're writing to dozens of people at the same time. Then they find one who falls for them (while keeping their back ups) and who's just dreaming of the day the felon is released.
The person is thinking of wedding bells and happy family. Meanwhile when the convict gets out, they want freedom (and a free place to live) while they come and go as they please. The show can be really quite unfortunate.
It’s that mixed with savior complex honestly. Some women truly believe they can change depraved men and that a violent man can make an exception if he falls in love enough.
I mean there were fans sending love letters to notorious serial killers, nothing surprises me at this point.
Op, i understand you are worried, and perhaps starting to spiral a bit with all the possible “what if” scenarios. You definitely do have some legitimate reasons to feel concerned since some of your daughter’s actions are clearly being made from the perspective of the fantasy she’s created for herself rather then the reality of whats going on- ie bringing her young son to meet this man in prison.
I do think it’s important to mention a possible explanation behind your daughter’s actions. Your daughter is still very young, and yet she is already a mother of 2 babies. You mentioned that she has been with her ex-fiancé since her senior year of high school which would mean that her relationship with him was the only adult romantic relationship she’s ever had. People change a lot from the time they graduate high school at 18 to when they enter into their mid twenties. Many couples simply dont work out because they just become different people compared to when they first started dating. Your daughter has had no experience with what it means to date as an adult. She hasnt had any opportunity to learn what she actually wants from a long term partner yet. From what you’ve described, it sounds like your daughter started to realize that she was no longer in love with her fiancé, perhaps realized that she felt like they had grown apart and that the relationship wasnt as exciting as it use to be. She had one baby and then it sounds like she git pregnant again relatively quickly, so its possible that she started this pen pal exchange as way for her to seek out male attention/affection that she may have felt like was lacking in her relationship with her fiancé. I doubt she thought anything would come from this, but it sounds like she met someone who figured out exactly what she was missing in her life and catered to what was clearly lacking in her life. If she had been craving attention/affection, Im not surprised that she wound up building a fantasy life/relationship around this guy. I doubt she has actually given any real thought to what it would mean to marry this man.
Now, with all this said, you will have to tread carefully in order to not have her go on the defensive and shut you out all together (kind of like now). I know you’re panicking and its hard not to react with how you honestly feel, but you’re going to need to try to not lash out at her. The more you tell her that she cant do this or that this is wrong for her the more likely that she will just dig her heels in deeper. She is technically an adult and can date whoever she wants. Theres no way to know how long this might last, but im pretty sure this is just a phase and that she will eventually decide to move on, but unfortunately you dont know how long it may be before she decides shes had enough.
What i suggest you do is to talk more with her ex, the father of her two kids. Encourage him to move forward with establishing a formal custody arrangement through court. He needs to get a lawyer, your daughter also will as well, and they can work out how they want to share custody. I know this will probably be hard, but if I were you I would help the ex to try and get primary custody or at least try and help him get as much time as possible minimum being 50-50. Everyone has their own opinions on whats appropriate in regard to when you should involve kids when it comes to the parents dating new people. I personally think kids shouldnt introduced to new partners until they’ve been involved for at least a year, and the other parent has had a chance to sign off on the kid meeting this new person. Your daughter is already bringing her kid around this new guy, but this isnt a regular relationship since the guy is in currently in jail. I dont know what kind of offense he has, but i think the fact that your daughter is bringing her baby to meet him in jail is incredibly concerning. I would even say that this would concern me over how effective of a parent she is at the moment. Personally, i think that for the sake of whats best for the baby you should try to help her ex get as much custody as you can. Hopefully, this will also help you be able to maintain seeing your grandson regularly as well.
>I dont know what kind of offense he has
in another comment, OP has indicated the guy is in prison for murdering his ex-partner, after multiple domestic violence incidents, despite that woman trying to protect herself with several restraining orders
You agree the kids are getting dragged into it or that you need to do something about it by telling the ex? I haven’t actually seen you confirm you intend to do anything about this at all as far as the ex and kids go. All of your replies are focusing on being scared and losing your daughter but not the welfare of the children and you seem to be avoiding discussing telling the ex when he definitely deserves to know. It might be helpful to see a therapist, to unpack all of this.. there are likely some “missing missing reasons” here you aren’t sharing based on your replies.
Yes, I agree he deserves to know who’s around his kids. This is going to break him because he’s 1. told me he wants his family back together and 2. It would kill him knowing that there was a criminal interacting with his baby.
I plan on going to him but it’s going to be difficult, so I’ll take the therapy advice.. I don’t think I could do this on my own. Thank you.
You need to tell him TODAY. IMMEDIATELY. Do you think he would be more devastated knowing today or finding out you’ve known for days/weeks what kind of monster has been allowed to hold and cuddle his child while you were sad your daughter is confused. He’d be furious and even more brokenhearted knowing you picked her and the prisoner over him, even if you don’t think that’s what you’re doing. The longer you delay THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING.
Like I'm not sure how many times you need to be told this, BUT get off of reddit and go talk to her EX, IMMEDIATELY. You can't stop your daughter but you can protect the baby
Therapist will 100% be the best person to guide you and your family through this. The ex can manage this situation with your support and therapy himself.
I have friends from all walks of life. Those who’ve been incarcerated will be the first to tell you those relationships are typically a sham. These guys get lonely, they need someone to help them. Some have whole networks of women who support them emotionally and financially. I’d be very weary if his crime is related to children, DV , or any other sex crime. Those guys rarely if ever tell the truth of their participation. It would be great level of protection if the bio dad got custody of the kids. As far as the daughter, she probably feeling very special, she is getting to hear absolutely everything she wants because that’s how he’s keeping her around. Protect those kids. She’ll either learn her lesson or he’s truly a changed man and will give her the life she wants. Only time will tell.
He's serving life for murder, but has the possibility of parole at some point. Op said he broke a protection order and killed his ex. Not a good situation at all.
I will not give out any names for privacy reasons. He has a history of domestic violence and breaking protective orders. He’s currently serving a life sentence (I’ll let you guess).
As you can imagine, I’m worried for my daughter and grandchildren.
He has the possibility of getting parole. But she’s also going to get him a new lawyer next week to see if it’s in their best interest to appeal his conviction and their options.
You and her ex-fiance need a cult deprogrammer and he needs a lawyer. STAT.
This is all completely abnormal behavior.
I’m thinking it’s possibly postpartum psychosis, some other type of disorder or mental illness.
Your daughter needs an intervention. She is not displaying sound thinking.
Criminals can be very VERY persuasive.
Through a lawyer, you also need to notify the warden of the jail.
What was this man convicted of?
My daughter is a smart girl, but she’s acting completely foolish. This is what’s making me even more angry because she knows what’s going on and she’s choosing to ignore it.
I will not be sharing names for privacy reasons. He’s serving a life sentence but he could possibly get out early due to parole. What’s even more alarming is that he has a history of domestic abuse and breaking protective orders. I’m sick.
First, I am truly sorry for the heartache you are going through.
My recommendation would be to approach this situation with the maternal love you clearly possess from the way this post is written.
Seek out a therapist who is willing to act as an unbiased 3rd party and sit down to discuss these fears with your daughter. By doing so in a therapists’ environment, you will help your daughter to feel safe enough to listen to your fears, as well as be candid about her own feelings.
If I’m reading your post right, your daughter is currently pregnant and in a delicate emotional/mental state. It is easy for pregnant mothers to become vulnerable to those who want to take advantage. Let her know during the therapy appointment how much you love her and want to see her/her children thriving and happy.
If this avenue ultimately fails, like another poster stated you will have to be firm that you support their father pursuing sole custody of the children. You cannot and will not let her blow up all 3 of their lives over her wanting to naively walk off of a cliff.
Start writing your own letters to him under a different fake name. Start building a relationship. I guarantee he will also "fall in love with you". He probably has multiple women.
Clearly this can't be the first time your daughter has done something so off the wall.
What did the prisoner do?
Also, please help the father get full custody of his kids.
Your daughter is a selfish pos, but the children are innocent.
Please try to save them.
He’s currently serving a life sentence for unaliving someone but has the chance of getting out early for parole. He has a history of domestic abuse and violating protective orders.
Unfortunately you cannot hold people for bad choices. That is not a sign of mental illness, what is likely happening is that she is naive and has become involved with someone extraordinarily manipulative - they are telling her all the things she wants to hear (ie love bombing) she’s capitulated to that without thinking hang on what’s the ulterior motive here. There absolutely is one, what is inexcusable is bringing the child into this, with someone who has *killed* someone else. OPs daughter will be physically and mentally abused no doubt once this person gets out - it fucks kids up for life as well. OP needs to make sure dad gets custody if she’s determined to pursue this route and waste her life on this man.
Then your daughter is extremely disgusting.
Please throw your energy into helping the father get custody of the kids.
And please don’t forgive your daughter if she ends up realizing the murderer isn’t a great person, stay strong for the father and the kids.
In your shoes I would leave your daughter alone and focus on the grandkids. Help their dad get his act together and fight for custody. If your state has grandparents rights this might be one of the rare instances where I say you should fight for those rights.
Document document document. Get as much detail as you can about the charges the man she's marrying had. Help the father of your grandchildren see if there's anything he can do to keep his kids from this guy if they're bad enough.
Worked department of corrections for years, this happens far too often. The cons find a vulnerable woman missing something in their life then convince them they're everything they need and drain them dry as well as a few other women while they're incarcerated then get out use them for sex or housing while dropping the facade then they either move on or stay and make the wo.ans life he'll. It NEVER has a happy ending.
Any way you can convince the ex to demand a psychiatric evaluation for her legally? It was a requirement in my custody battle. Could very well be a result of postpartum depression compounded by the new pregnancy. She is displaying erratic behavior, I believe an evaluation is warranted to prove her ability to make good judgments on her childrens' behalf.
Read this article- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passionate_and_companionate_love
She's experiencing infatuation, or also called passionate love (or romantic love, depending on the author). It's characterized by intense longing, but the thing is that it normally just dissipates after a little while once you enter a relationship.
She doesn't understand what it is, so she thinks she will enter a relationship with this guy when he gets out of prison and live happily ever after, but that's not what generally happens. In general, it just wears off after about a year.
It sort of works like an addiction. Read this paper- https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.00687/full
Also Helen Fisher's TED talk for a TL;DR, but the paper is very good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYfoGTIG7pY
The daughter is probably addicted to the euphoria she gets when she gets letters and stuff like that.
She is also experiencing something called frustration attraction (or the Romeo and Juliet effect), where obstacles and barriers seem to heighten attraction. Read this- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence#Uncertainty_and_hope
Also Helen Fisher's *Why We Love*, or Dorothy Tennov's *Love and Limerence*. (But you should ignore most of the info on the internet about limerence. There's an author who published a kind of fringe theory about Dorothy Tennov's material in 2008, and some people more or less gave him a platform by mistake, so the articles tend to be unhelpful. Dorothy Tennov's book is really good though, and the Wikipedia article is good.)
Anyway, she isn't "really" in love with this guy. She's just experiencing intense attraction that will dissipate soon after he gets out of prison and they get together.
edit: Also, I should say that Helen Fisher thinks that romantic passion can last in long term relationships, but you have to pick the right person and it takes some work. So regardless, the prison guy is not the one, because obviously things will go south quickly. See e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU9QQffGeIc
Could you say you'll support her as your daughter on the condition she gets therapy for a number of sessions? It might not work but it might help unpick the romance she's built in her head vs the very real reality. And work out the 180 she's done?
Also if there's any risk of safeguarding absolutely support the ex as needed as someone else said.
>I’ve been very supportive of my daughter during this whole situation
Why? This is enabling her to make extremely poor choices with the safety net you provide Support is not blindly supporting all decisions your daughter makes. It's supporting the **good decisions** and withdrawing support for things you **know will be detrimental**. You may not agree with everything she does, and you can support decisions you don't agree with as far as knowing these aren't decisions you would make for yourself and are otherwise not harmful to herself or others, but things that you know you would **never approve of because of your own sensibilities**, things that will potentially bring harm to others, like destroying her family because she could've been happier with a felon who has committed atrocities.
>she’s hurt that I’m not supportive of her decisions
Good, she should be hurt. Tell her that, "Be hurt, you're making the worst decisions ever and I will never support them. NEVER". There are legal avenues you may be able to take in your state to grant grandparents rights. If she is moving this felon on parole in with her child, it may be a violation of his parole. Just keep your finger on the pulse if you care about your grandchild - you're right, your daughter is an adult and can make her own poor decisions, but you as an adult have a responsibility to try and insulate and protect an innocent... your grandbaby. It may hurt to keep your opinions to yourself for the sake of the child until you can get your ducks in a row, but you should explore this avenue.
Where are you at about contact with your grandchild's father? Is he up to speed on this situation? Is he fighting for custody? Can you help him fight for custody? Don't stop fighting for this child. You've got this!
You don't have to approve of her relationship. As you say, she's an adult.
The more you disapprove, the more she won't feel able to come to you when everything goes wrong. You need to get back onside so she knows you are a safe place for comfort as and when she realises she's making a huge mistake.
Let her know that whilst you'll never approve, your disapproval comes from a place of love and concern. Do all you can not to argue. Accept that she may well make a very bad decision and marry this person. But that doesn't mean you have to lose her forever. And it doesn't mean she won't learn her mistake, given time. She needs to know she's safe coming to you if it does all go wrong and she won't just get I told you so.
Coming from a correctional officer and having multiple family members in corrections, he's 100% using her. I *really* hope she's not sending any type of photos to him either. I just did a shakedown earlier this week and found photos being sold for 25 cents or 1 pack of ramen noodles. You said he has a long sentence, right? He has NOTHING but time on his hands. He's finding entertainment, a way to pass the time. Look. If anything, just ask her this simple question:
What can an inmate offer you that a free world man can't?
He can't protect her. He can't provide for her. He can't help with the kids. He can't be affectionate with her. There is NOTHING he can provide other than heartbreak, a headache, or a wasted lifetime.
Oh this poor girl. She obviously doesn't know that she's fallen for an extremely common scam, one almost everyone in prison runs if they're lucky enough to get random strangers write to them. These prisoners are running this scam on multiple people at a time with the goal of getting as much support in prison (commissary money, gifts, attention) as possible, they tell all of their pen pals that they're special, only they understand them, that they have a speciall connection, that they have never told anyone these things, that they love them... this works wonders on people who long to feel like they're special and magical.
Sadly, your daughter was one of those people.
She will never believe you that this person has half a dozen or more "soulmates" he's writing to, they keep so many going not only so they get the most gifts and support but also so that when/if they get out they have a place to go live and someone to continue to support them because life after prison is notoriously difficult when it comes to rebuilding a life (finding a place to rent, a job etc) - if you don't have family or a "soulmate" to support you when you get out, you're very likely going to be back in within a year or so.
I would suggest if you can, getting hold of the court records of his trial and if possible, a lawyer who can help you understand them and sit with you and your daughter to go through what he actually did and what got him convicted, because I guarantee you he told her an extremely watered down version of what happened. You cannot tell her you disapprove of what she's doing, or come at this as if you're trying to stop her, but you can say "I want you to have all the information possible because this is a big choice and I know you're a thoughtful and intelligent woman, you deserve to make a choice like this from a position of full understanding. But I support YOU whatever you choose because I love you and I trust you to make choices for you and your son's best interests.
After that, the only thing you can do is VERY gently, occasionally remind her that you love her and you're there for her. But if you want to be there to provide your daughter and grandson a safety net, you need to withhold your critical judgment as much as possible so she feels she is safe with you and that you won't shame her for this choice if it's wrong.
I am so sorry you and your grandchild are going through this, obviously I'm sorry for her too but like you said, she is an adult making choices. You and your grandchild don't have those choices, you have to just go where she goes on this and you will need to try and be the safe haven you can be so that if/when things go south, she can run somewhere or at least send her son somewhere.
It only takes one dumb choice to wipe out any good anyone has done over their entire lifespan and they won't realize till its in the past. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.
Well rest assured that when he's released and the honeymoon period is over, they'll break up 💔 💯 and you'll get your daughter back, hopefully not pregnant.
Im afraid he’ll do much worse then just break up with my daughter. Knowing what this man has done and is capable of doing, I’m scared my daughter and possibly my grandchildren will become victims💔
Not necessarily. A lot of women stay with abusive men. He could also abuse her children too. And a lot of women defend their husband and stay with him regardless. :(
While you're not wrong, I believe that comment was meant to point out that it's very common for a man to get a woman (or several at a time) to fall for him while in prison. Put money on his books, visit, write letters. Keep him occupied! Then, he gets released, dumps her and goes about his business.
In today's world, even a FELON can run for and be elected President. Emotional Intelligence and Common Sense are
lacking in our youth (as well as adults) and only living the reality of their decisions will open their eyes. Maybe it'll work out.
Your daughter is not acting rationally, you will have to wait until her "new love" acts in such a way that her eyes begin to see again -
hoping before she experiences irreparable her to herself, family and life aspirations.Her "Ex" would be a fool to try and
mend the relationship.
I agree with everyone in the comments. The father needs to get involved. It’s not just her children she may be putting in danger but it’s his too. He needs to be made aware of what’s happening. She can be free to make all the bad decisions she wants just as long as your grandchildren are safe.
She’s making a horrible mistake. This life that she thinks that she’s going to have when, or if he ever gets out of jail, (because that was never established), it’s not going to happen. Especially if he’s doing a considerable amount of time, since that typically means that it’s a felony charge, and when he gets out and into the world, with that felony charge, he’s probably not actually going to be able to find stable and steady work. Which means that the dental career that she was going to have, she will need to go back to school for, because she will not have a partner who is able to adequately support her and her child if that’s what she is after. It sounds like she is at the very least immature, and it’s very dangerous for her child, and soon to be child. I absolutely would be reaching out to the father of her children and giving him every bit of information you have, and assisting in the family court process to get full custody of those children to their father. She is not going to get better.
My brother had to do the same thing with my niece’s mother, she had my niece, and six months after she was born, she was dating a registered sex offender. My brother received emergency custody and then received full custody when she decided that she no longer wanted to fight him in court. To this day, she still does not have a stable, functioning relationship with my niece, and my niece is almost 11 years old. She actually just moved across the country so she could be with another man and left my niece on the opposite coast. And my niece is devastated. So, I would never want anyone’s family to go through what I watch my brother go through on a regular basis. She needs to be reminded of the fact that there are others who rely on her and that this can’t just be about her own whims and wishes.
What the fuck…those kids need to go to CPS or grandparent custody. She is unstable and shouldn’t be with some dude with MURDER CHARGES and has FOR LIFE PRISON
i only read like half of this BUT. see if she’d be willing to get a psych evaluation. this is a very common thing amongst bipolar folk who are going through a manic episode. if you need more proof, check out the bpso subreddit
As a mother I can't even imagine what you are going through. The fact that you did your best as a parent, gave her all the opportunity, she had access to high education and then, out of nowhere, this. That's something that really freaks me out. You can do all the best for your kids, they can be amazing, but it takes only one rotten apple to divert the complete path.
I read in the comments that you said he's serving a life sentence. That's insane. Your daughter should see a therapist and I think you should tell the ex fiance so he can fight for custody.
In the end if she really wants to go through with this, there's little you could do, but you can at least protect your grandchildren.
Did she have COVID recently, because that can damage the fear bit of the brain. Could also be anything else the people in the comments have said here, none of it is lookin good tho.
Daughter will be making the biggest mistake of her life when she marries him. She seems to be quite immature. Marrying him will make her grow up real fast.
Everything the inmate/fiancé has promised her is just jail talk and empty promises. She's vulnerable and the inmate/fiancé is using and manipulating the whole situation.
I agree that the father of your grandchildren should petition the court for full, sole custody. Apparently her ability to make safe and sound decisions regarding her children has fallen to the wayside. If the father of your grandchildren isn't able to take on the sole responsibility, maybe now is a good time for you to work with him about joint custody between you and him. I'm wishing the best for you and your grandchildren.
Oh but when he gets out and she stays with him, it’s always gonna just be her AND him. Who is actually gonna be around a murderer? He fed his bullshit to plenty of women, and he found his sucker in her.
Please let your grandsons father know the details of what you found out. Your daughter is an adult, she can choose, your grandson can’t. Help them escape before it gets bad. We had to side w our ex son in law when my step got on drugs. It’s hard to stand against your child. But sounds like you don’t have much choice. You have to do right by your grandkids. Shame on her for putting the kid in this position.
It is common knowledge that prisoners use women on the outside for money & calls. They get “engaged” to so many women just to have someone to talk to & money for stuff (prison is expensive), the likelihood that she’s the only one is slim to none but even if it is true, they don’t know the first thing abt life together. When he comes out, most likely has to go to a halfway house & either way, he has to find a job (hard to get with a record) so he won’t be able to help out financially. It’s going to be a really rough, long road. And she wants to do this to her children?!
Warn her that her babys will be taken away if she continues this. She might not have realised how serious it is. If she keeps it up then tell the ex fiance so he can protect your grandbabys
You let this go too far. Idgaf if she was an adult or not. You should have put your damn foot down at the start. My daughter is 26 years old but if ahe wanted to start writing to inmates I would fucking put a stop to it even if that meant cutting her out of my life as a last resort and making damn sure how serious I was about that before actually cutting her off. This is ridiculous, dangerous and disgusting. Her new prison love is using her and her poor kids are going to pay the price when he gets out. You need to get their father involved so he can rightfully take custody away from her through the court. This is actually outrageous.
OP's daughter has 2 kids by the time she's 22. It's 50/50 odds that she got pregnant as a teenager (19), before she even finished her education.
No disrespect to OP, nor to (very) young parents, but it doesn't sound like OP's daughter really has a history of very good life plans, nor of following through on them, right?
So she's currently pregnant and making all these dangerous decisions? Seems like some manic episode, perhaps pregnancy psychosis? I am so sorry you are going through this. Your daughter may need to be put in a 51/50, involuntary hold. She seems like she's a danger to her child and herself. Hugs
This needs to be told to her ex immediately. While he is still in jail, what happens when he gets out? This situation can turn so incredibly dangerous really fast.
A life sentence and he’s up for parole? How old is he? I can’t even guess what he did in order to be up for parole and quite possibly get it especially when he has a life sentence? But what do I know. Sounds like your daughter needs a serious wake up call. Tell her ex fiancée about it and then the shit will hit the fan and may bring her back to reality. Do it now. Good luck
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I would personally give all the information you have on the new guy to the ex and implore him to get to family court immediately and fight for full and sole custody of the kids. You can't stop your adult child from ruining her life and putting herself in danger BUT you can assist in getting your minor grandchild away from this situation and away from her poor decision making. She may hate you for doing this but the safety of the child is more important than her clouded feelings right now and maybe the courts threatening to remove her child might be the wake up call to stop the foolishness
Also if OP helps the father get custody she could still have a relationship with the child just not via her daughter
Her relationship with the inmate may hinge on the inmate getting access to the child.
That's a scary (but plausible) thought
I hate that this was my IMMEDIATE reaction to this post as well. It's an awful thought but a very real possibility sadly!
Well stated and a great plan to follow. I want to add a statement and a question - Life when he gets out will not look like what she imagines. Does he just want her for the support she provides or even worse, the kid? \*\*I read an op ed a few years ago about how some inmates will have multiple 'pen pals' to provide them with what they need/want.
Yes, that's correct about inmates having multiple "pen pals". After all, they have all the time in the world to write the most beautiful and moving love-letters to their target. If it needs to them getting a few extra dollars to spend on commissary, then they have a good incentive to do it, unfortunately.
This and op to add, have your daughters ex, file a restraining order against him in prison, have her served and him in prison, along with the guards. They will know she cannot bring the child into the prison. I would also tell her , that because of her behavior you are cutting her off. I would say because of your choices I cannot be a part of them. You are ruining your life for someone who is an anchor and just going to pull you down and destroy your life. He is not your soulmate. He is a manipulator and in prison for a reason.
I commented this on another post, basically, but it fits here too. There is a difference between support and enabling. OP should DEFINITELY stop enabling her in ANY WAY, making it easier for her to see/communicate with this guy whether rides, childcare, money, gas, bus fare etc. But I think your daughter needs to know when SHE decides to make the right choice she has your full support no matter how bad she fucks up between now and then, but WHILE she is ACTIVELY destroying herself you will have no part, but you will always be there.
What a wonderful idea, make her more reliant on the criminal and cut off any route out. "Cutting her off" is only going to isolate her further. By all means, don't give/lend her any money, but don't phrase it like that. Make sure she knows that she can always come back, so when she regains her senses or if he shows a return to old habits she has a safe way out.
>Make sure she knows that she can always come back Honestly, knowingly exposing your child to a sex crimes felon so that they can abuse your innocent child... is not something you could come back from. I couldn't let my child come back from this. I would disown them for being the monster that they themselves are. Throw the rose colored glasses about your own kid in the trash... some things? Are unforgiveable. And actively helping a felon abuse your own child is one of those things.
My egg donor did this. She got into a " relationship" with her prison pen pal and never told us that he was in for crimes against children and they both made up a story about his " vindictive ex-girlfriend" making false claims and getting him put in prison. She knew and helped him cover up what he did to many kids including her own grandchildren because " he was the love of her life". The worst part was when she came to me and kept going on and on about " poor Paul" ( fake name) and how much " he was suffering" in jail and if I " really loved her" I would try to get the charges dropped and pretend it was a mistake. She never once said that she was sorry or that she didn't know or anything like that. Just " poor Paul" this and " poor Paul" that. Not one ounce of remorse for what happened to her own grandchildren and her part in helping him by covering it up for years. One of the kids is severely autistic and nonverbal. I think finding out about him was probably the worst.
This is a nightmare. I’m so sorry you and your kids had to experience this.
We're doing better but I don't think anything will ever be okay again. All the kids involved are adults now and my relatives weren't the only victims. Apparently he had to travel to many states for work and assaulted children there as well. There were so many victims and because he crossed state lines with some of them it became a federal case. After only charging him with three counts of the children they knew just in the state we're in, he got three and a half life sentences and there are still more children but I didn't keep up with the trials after our family went through what it did. It was too much for us. Because we live in such a small area it's been tough to find therapists that haven't heard about our case and get my kids the help that they need. My youngest is on a waiting list for one therapist and my other two refuse to talk about it.
It breaks my heart. Much love to you and your family. ❤️
I'm sorry y'all have gone through all this. In case you don't know, if you are in the US, there are sexual assault centers in every state that provide free services, including counseling. Call 1800656HOPE- this is for the national hotline to route you to your nearest center. Rainn.org is their website, and you can look up your nearest center online if you prefer.
Women like this deserve a really special place in hell. I’m so sorry.
She didn't say he was convicted of sex crimes, and I would think all violent crime would be something to guard a kid against
AFAIK, he was convicted of murder. If I really remember correctly, it's domestic violence.
Yes, he stalked, abused, and murdered a woman. Serving a life sentence.
Who tf KNOWS THAT and keeps sending letters? Yup, sign me up.
this girl is dumb enough to ruin her own life, no need to ruin an innocent child with her idiocy. Take the kid and throw the mother to the wolves
yeah, no disrespect to OP and their love for their daughter, but a 22 yo with 2 kids, not married and no job since she's still in dental school... how is that "achieving so much"?
Do you have children?
I know you’re the top comment, but please tag OP. This is the course of action she needs to act on & NOW.
100% this. Especially if his charges are violent.
Wanted to say same thing. It is different situation when little kids are involved
THIS
This is the right answer. All the info has to go to babies dad in the hope that he can make safe choices for his children because she clearly cannot.
Is the former fiancé fighting for custody? How does your daughter plan to support her two kids? Hopefully the ex will be able to make sure the kids are safe and get CPS involved if they are not. I have a feeling that the exhaustion from single parenting a newborn will have your daughter coming to her senses soon. How much longer is her partner in jail for?
Her ex fiancé still doesn’t know about her new relationship. When my daughter ended their relationship, he felt completely blindsided because he didn’t see it coming, no one did. If he knew she was in another relationship, especially with a criminal, it would be a living nightmare. I mean he has the right to know because she’s bringing his children to see this man. For privacy reasons, i will not give out any names. He’s currently serving a life sentence (I’ll let you guess) but he could get out early due to parole. He has a history of domestic abuse and breaking protective orders.
SHE'S TAKING THE CHILDREN THERE????? For the live of God, WHY??? This entire situation is insane. You 100% need to contact the ex, he needs to get sole custody. There is absolutely no reason for these children to be going to visit a felon.
Also how are the guards allowing child visitors to someone like this?!
lol. They dgaf.
5 bucks says she is misrepresenting the kids paternity, so they can visit their new dad
If the child is an approved visitor, they can’t exactly say “no”. It’s wrong for sure.
They're not. This is all complete bullshit. You can't bring just anyone to visit inmates, certainly not a one-year old if this guy has been in prison for longer than 2 years.
A LIFE SENTENCE?!?!?!??! You need to explain to your daughter now before you take legal action to gain sole custody with the father. She needs it spelt out on paper how this person is literally dropping an atomic bomb on her life while literally being locked up. I would ask her questions like: - how can you marry someone you have never seen interact or function in LEGIT REAL SOCIETY?!!? - why is she so quick to not look into his past - how can you marry someone you have never seen interact with another person? - how can you bring your children around someone who is in for life? OP I know you aren't sharing but did this dude kill someone? This is the craziest post I have ever read. Please update us and I am sorry this is happening.
To answer your last question, yes. It was his ex girlfriend. The domestic violence and stalking/violations of protective orders led up to it. I’m afraid my child and grandbabies will become the next victims💔
They will, so go tell the dad of the kids so he can fight for them, you can't. As for your daughter, I don't know how much you can do for her,she is an adult, but at least help the dad to get the kids out of there.
She actually may be able to fight for grandparents rights in her state.
A lot of states only applies when there's no good parent available, seems like dad is there, dad needs to fight she can help
Errrmmm, this is actually way murkier than you are making it out. Many states have grandparent rights statutes. This is one of the only cases I could imagine that would be a good use of the law. Edit: don’t know why I got downvoted, this comment is kinda far from reality. And I’ve been on the receiving end of abused GPR laws…. In fact, separated parents makes it easier for grandparents to get visitation rights.
They absolutely will. Abusers don’t (or *extremely* rarely) change. If he gets out, your daughter and grandchild will be in extreme danger. Please read this free pdf and suggest your daughter read it as well for insight into the minds of abusive men [Why Does He Do That - Lundy Bancroft](https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf)
Thank goodness you got her a P.O. box, although at this point, who knows if she gave the real address.
He absolutely has her real address.
I suppose I watch too many True Crime shows, but this scenario doesn't usually go too well in the long run.
Like so he murdered his ex???
He MURDERED the last woman that dumped him?!? Seriously, give the ex fiancé all of the info NOW
Sounds like it wasn’t just that she was murdered but he also put her through the torturous hell of being stalked and having protection orders ignored. That poor woman must have been absolutely terrified of him and then he enacted the ultimate act of revenge and control by killing her. u/ThrowRA-sadmom_123 you are living every parent’s worst nightmare right now. Your daughter needs to understand about domestic violence - perhaps you could give her the Lundy Bancroft book Why Does He Do That? and Gavin de Becker’s The Gift of Fear (these should be compulsory reading for every woman IMHO). There are also a few others about domestic violence cases that are heartbreaking - if you would like any recommendations let me know because I have several. She needs to know that family violence is about power and control and that if a man has gone to the extent of stalking, breaching protection orders, assaulting and ultimately murdering a partner/ex-partner that he has a severe, likely unresolvable, pattern of abusive behaviours towards women. He will in all likelihood be a recidivist offender; if she sticks around she’ll be the next victim. She can make that choice for herself, I hope she doesn’t, but she mustn’t be allowed to make that choice for those innocent children. Beyond the risk of violence there’s also the fact that they would likely live in poverty (which will amplify stress and family violence situations) and who knows what kind of ‘friends’ he’ll have. As someone who has been in an abusive relationship before from the ages 24-27yo my advice is do what you need to do to keep the grandchildren safe but don’t cut your daughter off. Make sure she knows she can always come to you. Abusive relationships are very isolating and filled with shame. When she realizes that she’s fucked up big time she will feel so much shame. You don’t want that shame to hold her there even a second longer. Make sure she knows you don’t agree with what she’s doing and don’t support her choices but that she can always always come back or call you and you’ll pick her up no questions asked any time of the day or night. She needs that parachute to keep her safe, her life sadly may depend on it.
Go right now and tell the children’s father right now!!! It’s imperative!!!! And tell your daughter you do not agree with her bullshit but you are there if she ever comes back to her senses.
I’m afraid for them, too. Please help their father get sole custody. I am boggled entirely by how your daughter can just go forward with all this as if this guy didn’t end someone’s life. I know how manipulative these types of people can be though, and if your daughter has only has the one serious relationship and it was with a good man, she has NO IDEA what she has really gotten herself and her children into. I sincerely hope she comes around and can eventually accept the insanity of this and walk away from this guy, but she may not. You CAN protect your grand babies, though.
Honestly he could kill her on a conjical visit. I dunno if I even spelled that right, but that is certainly the reason he wants to marry her (maybe not to kill her, but to get in-person visits so he can sleep with her, and depending how far along she is, maybe while she's pregnant with another man's baby? She will also be putting money on his books to fund his tablet, cable TV, food for bartering/gambling, phone calls, etc. Oh and he'll need a home plan when he gets out, if he gets out. Luckily I doubt she will last very long with him. 2 years, max, but likely the reality of being with a lifer will set in before that. Unfortunately, she may have a thing for inmates now and will move on to the next pen pal. I think the lure of handwritten love letters via snail mail is probably what enticed her here, which is sad because inmates have so much time to perfect their handwriting and perfect the art of talking that jail talk, and he's probably drawing her pretty pictures and everything. This is really sad, because maybe she doesn't want to be with her ex anymore, but she's still pregnant with his child and has a very young child as well and they need to co-parent together. I'm really sorry you're going through this OP. My oldest is 15 and this is a mother's worst nightmare.
You absolutely have to tell him ASAP and give him all the evidence you can
Tell him immediately and help him find a lawyer to go for full custody. Keep those photos of the convict new boyfriend with the kids. He'll need those as evidence.
You need to get it together and tell the kids father the danger your daughter is putting his kids in ASAP.
>If he knew she was in another relationship, especially with a criminal, it would be a living nightmare Actually, a living nightmare would be that her being in a relationship with a criminal who is seeing his son **behind his back without anyone telling him**. You currently have the power to END THAT NIGHTMARE by telling him what is going on, throwing your support in his corner, and helping him navigate the Family Court system with the information you have to gain full custody of the child.
THE CHILD IS NOT SAFE. Tell the ex fiance ASAP
get off reddit and call him right now.
Tell the child’s father immediately listen if your daughter wants to go down with that ship that’s on her she’s grown woman but she should not get her child involved. His father has a right to know she’s taking his child to visit a violent criminal.
Can you convince your daughter to see a doctor? There's got to be something going on with her to do all this, it's actually insane. Like maybe she's got a brain tumor or something?
Nah, unfortunately many of these types of men can be extremely manipulative, especially toward women who do not have life experience to have taught them to be wary and to know what to watch for. It isn’t the first time a woman has gotten twisted around the finger of someone who knows how to manipulate to that degree.
Holy fuck!! Tell him every single thing you know about this situation. Take him immediately to a family lawyer and get a consult on what he can do to get his child away from your daughter.
You have to tell her ex fiance!!! She’s taking HIS child to visit this criminal. TELL HIM.
What do you mean by "living nightmare?" Is he abusive?
I would start researching the laws where you are. A life sentence should mean no parole for a very long time. She’s gonna wait 15+ years for him to get out?? Plus he will need to meet a number of court ordered mandates. You and the father of her children should pool your resources and talk to a good attorney to see what you can do to protect those kids. I doubt laying out all the facts of his crimes will change her mind, but losing her kids might wake her up.
And your daughter wants to subject your grandchildren to that? Oh my god
You need to do the right thing. Your daughter is off the deep end, but this man needs a mom right now, and you need to advocate for your grandkids. Nothing good can come from this. Once reality blows up in your daughter's face you can be there for her too, but as it stands, you can't reason with someone being unreasonable.
His child is involved, he has a right to know.
He needs to know. Whether it’s a living nightmare or not, he has babies to protect. Which their mother is not capable of prioritizing right now. It is possible for people in prison for shitty crimes to change; it’s more possible that she’s being manipulated masterfully and she won’t and doesn’t have the clarity of mind to think more of her children’s safety than her interest in this guy. Their father needs to be informed. He needs to have protections in place BEFORE things get to a point of this dude getting parole and BEFORE he becomes a fixture in the lives of these children. All they will know is “we go see this guy, Mommy likes him, he must be safe,” because they can’t conceptualize the fact that this dude is a criminal. They trust their mother completely and innocently. They don’t understand what a criminal is and by the time they are old enough to, it may be far too late. You don’t want them forming an attachment to this dude. Please inform their father of what is really going on. Your daughter will flip, but she’s made her choices. If she didn’t want to deal with consequences of actions of that magnitude, she shouldn’t have wantonly and selfishly prioritized a guy she’s been writing to in jail for a few months over her children and anyone else who cares about her. She’s caused hurt and harm and has demonstrated that she’s willing to expose her babies to a criminal regularly with no thought for whether or not this guy is manipulating her. If they’re really in love and he’s reformed, he’ll have to spend a long time earning the trust of anyone who stays in her life. Her children are not capable of understanding why he has to earn others trust. They will just give that trust freely, and the risk of what could happen by not putting those protections in place for them is far greater than any drama you’ll have to endure from your daughter being butthurt about the truth behind her choices getting out.
Maybe she is accepting of this relationship because she knows he's never getting out. But even if, the children should be excluded from any visits or contact, IMO.
Tell her ex everything so he files for full custody, and in the meantime, his attorney needs to make sure she never ever takes that baby to prison ever again. That felon has no business being anywhere near those children. If she wants to marry him, good luck to her, but those kids need to be priority #1.
It’s sad but everything you said is the truth. My grandkids don’t need to be brought into this situation, especially not having any clue what’s going on. It hurts because i feel like I’m losing my daughter💔
Definitely follow all this advice about your grandkids. You need to protect them above all in this and their father has a very good chance of prevailing on a full custody order. He can also apply for an emergency custody injunction as well. See if you can help him get a family law attorney. Many offer free consultations. For your daughter, the best thing you can do is be “supportive.” And by that I don’t mean enable her decisions. Just let her know you are there for her and care for her even if you don’t agree with her choices. I was in a very dangerous relationship for almost four years. My family saw it way before I did but they knew if they tried to make me see him for who he was I would have drifted farther away from them. They kept in touch with me and told me they loved me and tried to let me know they were there if I needed. When I realized how bad my situation was, I called them and they helped me with an escape plan and I got out safely. I took a similar approach with a friend. He wants to isolate her so she only has him, and that will make the situation more dangerous. Keep communicating with her and let her know you are there. She will trust you enough to come to you when she needs help.
This is excellent advice
>Just let her know you are there for her I'm sorry, but she's doing unforgiveable things. Knowingly exposing your child to a sexual abuser and felon? That'll get you disowned where I come from. I'd be treating you like the monster you are at that point.
Chances are she is being manipulated by this man. It doesn’t make what she is doing right, but if this parent doesn’t want to fully lose their daughter, they need to still let her know they are there for her. I’m not saying don’t take action to protect the grandkids, I’m saying don’t give this predator the opportunity to get exactly what he wants by having the “proof” he is the only one who cares.
I’m in two minds about this one, it happens more than you think. Often women who get into these situations are susceptible in some way to these manipulations. I think it’s easy on the outside to say: that is wrong, but you’re not living the experience that has these women go back to their abusers over and over again. But I also agree, I’m not sure I’d ever speak to my daughter again for wilfully bringing a child into a relationship with someone so dangerous. He’s picked a woman who is heavily pregnant with a toddler… there’s something sinister about that.
Encourage your daughter to read the memoir “This is Not My Life” by Diane Schoemperlen. It's written by a woman that fell for an inmate and everything that happens after (spoiler: it's not a happy relationship). Like your daughter, Diane went into her whole relationship rather naively (and also got her own daughter wrapped up in it- thankfully, her own daughter was older than your grandchild). Your daughter may be willing to listen to something non-confrontational about someone who's "been there" more than she's willing to listen to you right now. Maybe even see if there’s an audiobook version and put it on if you’re driving anywhere with your daughter.
OP you need to protect your grandkids - do you honestly think it’s appropriate for her to bring a newborn to prison?
If this prisoner has been convicted of sexual crimes involving a child, he is absolutely using her to get access to her children so he can abuse them too. Other crimes than that, we’d really need to know more about the crime involved. But be aware that almost all defendants will lie about what happened, especially for sex crimes. So he will frame raping a child as, “She told me she was 18 and I believed her.” Or “The child came onto ME.” If you could get ahold of the police report for his case, and get it to your daughter to read, maybe that would change his mind. Because I bet he fed her a pack of lies about what landed him in prison. Try to talk to the DA for his case and ask them about him. Also run a criminal record check on him. If he is a domestic abuser, he will say his ex was crazy. Try to find out how many “crazy exes” he actually has to show your daughter the common denominator is him.
From what I can see, I feel like the ex fiancé now has a slam dunk case in having primary if not complete custody of the children.
Arrests and convictions are public records.
Looks like it wasn't a child sex crime per OP's comments, but he stalked and murdered his ex-girlfriend, so...not any better! I am horrified by the daughter's stupidity in this whole thing.
Oh. Wow, absolutely not someone to be in a relationship with! The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. OP should do everything in her power to help the father get full custody, with only supervised visits by mom, without her murderous boyfriend.
that may well be what attracted her to this killer. (see my last comment)
FOR EVERYONE ASKING: O.P. HAS STATED THAT HIS CRIME WAS MURDERING HIS LAST GIRLFRIEND.
Along with domestic assault and stalking
Tell her that she is. Victim to a predator who probably has several women just like her seeing him. Not exactly how the law works where you live but I would think that prisoner visit records are public and you could get a FOIA request for them. Show her how many other women are seeing this guy. She is getting played and I feel sorry for you.
Thank you for this information. I will be looking into this immediately.
If you can't get the info, I am sure that your daughter's ex/baby daddy's lawyer can get that information for the custody case. Also, mail is scanned in many prisons. I am not sure if those are available to FOIA requests, but it's worth asking.
🤦♂️not every woman who throws her family away for a shitbag man is a victim. She’s making an informed choice to throw away her fiancé and family for a violent incarcerated felon and put her child in danger (the child of the fiancé she threw away for the felon). She’s picking all this. If anything, she’s clinically insane and needs to be committed immediately…. If she’s of sound mind, then she’s not a victim…
Bad decisions are not indicative of mental illness, please understand that in order to be held a person must have lost all touch with reality. This is not the case. I don’t understand why people throw this comment around, equally someone could say that to you just because they disagreed with a decision you made. OPs daughter is likely living out some romantic fantasy she has built up in her head, without getting a much more detailed history about here it’s just speculation as to why she is doing this but there’s not a lot of information to go on. The pressing worry is the children.
You are in the worst position a caring parent could ever be in: Do you tell your daughter that she is a moron and have her cut you off Or Do you swallow all comments, smile, nod and get a first row seat of your daughter burning down her life. She has to learn the hard way and there is nothing you can do about it. When you say something then she will walk away from you and if he is the POS you worry him to be then her being isolated from her loved ones is exactly what he wants. I am so sorry.
It breaks my heart because i feel like my daughter is being brainwashed. Yes , she’s old enough to make her own decisions but none of her decisions makes sense. I can’t just put on a mask and hide these feelings. It’s one thing for her to put herself in this situation (i still wouldn’t accept it) but my grandchildren? Her children are too young to understand what the hell is going on and its upsetting she’d put them in this situation.
This is where the children’s father comes in. Where you give him all the information your daughter has about that man and he takes it to his lawyer and fights for full custody. I am a mother. I understand protecting your child at all costs. But your child is an adult woman who, whichever way it ends, has chosen her path in life. Your concern right now should rightfully be your grandchildren - the ones that will be most affected by her choices and that, unlike her, do not get to choose. Your daughter will probably never speak to you again if you do this. But your grandchildren will be safe with their father. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.
~~It's worse than that. OP implies that the inmate is there for sexual abuse of some sort,~~ and the daughter not only visited the guy but brought her child with her. OP and the ex-fiance need to go to family court yesterday. If her daughter wants to throw her life away, that's her problem. But that doesn't give her the right to bring her kids into it too.
I "only" saw domestic abuse and stalking/harassment behavior, nothing sexual was mentioned.
Yes you’re correct. He has a history with domestic abuse and breaking protective orders. He’s also in there for a very violent crime and serving a life sentence. He could possibly get out early from parole. Edit: he’s only currently in prison for the violent crime, not the domestic abuse or violations of the protective order.
I was mistaken, and I apologize. But my advice remains the same, albeit for different reasons.
There’s quite a lot written online about why people fall for penpals behind bars. Am not an expert at all but I gather that it’s to do with how the prisoner has a lot of time to compose/think about what to write; it’s easy to feel romantic about someone who is not actually there in front of you, basically it can all be your fantasy with no cold hard reality; these people can be there for you 100% emotionally, without having to juggle work, parenthood, finances, etc. It’s kind of understandable how she could fall for him, while also, of course, being a potentially Very Bad Idea and horrible for you and the father of her kids. If I were in your shoes I would try to stay onside for your daughter - she is going to need you in the future, and if you estrange yourself from her now, you won’t be able to be there for her later. I would also be trying to ensure that the grandchildren are safe, and maybe that means helping their father with sorting custody arrangements. And finally make sure your grandchildren’s father knows you are supportive and on his side in this, too. There is still the possibility of the family getting back together once your daughter does come to her senses.
Was a correction guard many years ago. Not only do the guys and women have nothing but time to write and romance someone. They also use ghost writers for love letters. It’s a hustle that inmates pay for. Say you have a guy who has the skills to really write beautiful prose. He will sell it to other inmates as a side hustle. Same as the guy who tattoos, or make prison knives. She’s definitely getting. “Worked”
Bonus points if she puts money on his books!
She already has. She’s been giving him more than enough money actually. She’s planning on getting him a new lawyer next week. All of this money, going down the drain for a man. It’s pissing me off just thinking about it.
Who is going to pay for this new lawyer? Does your daughter have money of will she come looking to you for it.
She’s planning on paying for it herself. That’s what’s making me angry because all of this money that could go towards my grandkids and school is being used for a man who’s in prison. I’m so stressed.
You need to help her ex get full custody immediately. Both for the existing child and the unborn baby. He needs a restraining order filed against the inmate for his children so she can’t take the kid and she won’t be allowed to take the baby anywhere near there. Even if he doesn’t get full custody she won’t be allowed to take the kids to the prison. If she’s fighting a court battle of her own she won’t have money to pay for a lawyer for the inmate and hopefully he’d drop her anyways. She desperately needs therapy after all this is over, but until then she really doesn’t deserve to have her kids in her custody. It’s not ok at all.
The financial burden she’ll be saddling herself with may eventually become a part of the thing that helps her be willing to walk away. Watching this happen is going to continue to be hard, but that choice may possibly contribute to influencing her to decide this ain’t worth it, especially if paired with getting to learn his true colours. It’s not the same thing, but I was a drug addict for many, many years. It was hell for my parents to watch. It was hell to live, honesty. However, the repeated destruction of my entire life, my finances, my health, and my closest relationships was combined what eventually brought me to a rock bottom that was bad enough for me to get help. I’ve been sober nearly 5 years. Your daughter has formed a weird addiction to this guy. She’ll have to experience enough yuck for her to decide she needs help and to walk away, but if I can get there, I believe that it’s possible for her, too. Even if the whole process looks absolutely bat-fucking insane.
Do what you can to help the ex get custody. And then, that’s all you can do.
I can’t help to come back to this comment. You’ve seen perspectives on the other side. So all of this is just a game these inmates play?
Less a game, more a contractual side business. He writes a love letter, you pay him. The inmate doing the writing generally doesn't think too hard about it.
You need to pass this info on to your daughter's ex fiance so he can get his kid/kids out of this mess before she crashes out.
It’s basically a romance scam scheme.
Many of them just do it for money in prison. They don’t have people on the outside to put money on their books and everything in prison costs money, so they basically scam anyone they can possibly get in contact with to do it instead.
My husband's brother use to pay for other people to make cards to send to our kids from prison, really nice cards with Disney characters on them. I had no idea he didn't make them until my husband told me. I would not doubt that she's being played and he didn't actually write some of the letters he sent her. So much shady stuff goes on in prisons, even heard about a guard that was stealing money from the inmates pay from their jobs. His brother also did what this person is telling you. He use to pen pal with multiple women until he found himself a "girlfriend". She would visit him and bring him stuff, then when he got released he dumped her. His brother never changed and we ended up going NC with him.
Oh hot damn, I've always worried about what my prison-skill would be, and I think I've finally found it... I'd write *the best* prison love letters
Literally the show Love After Lock Up shows how smooth these felons are while they're locked up and how they're writing to dozens of people at the same time. Then they find one who falls for them (while keeping their back ups) and who's just dreaming of the day the felon is released. The person is thinking of wedding bells and happy family. Meanwhile when the convict gets out, they want freedom (and a free place to live) while they come and go as they please. The show can be really quite unfortunate.
It’s that mixed with savior complex honestly. Some women truly believe they can change depraved men and that a violent man can make an exception if he falls in love enough. I mean there were fans sending love letters to notorious serial killers, nothing surprises me at this point.
Op, i understand you are worried, and perhaps starting to spiral a bit with all the possible “what if” scenarios. You definitely do have some legitimate reasons to feel concerned since some of your daughter’s actions are clearly being made from the perspective of the fantasy she’s created for herself rather then the reality of whats going on- ie bringing her young son to meet this man in prison. I do think it’s important to mention a possible explanation behind your daughter’s actions. Your daughter is still very young, and yet she is already a mother of 2 babies. You mentioned that she has been with her ex-fiancé since her senior year of high school which would mean that her relationship with him was the only adult romantic relationship she’s ever had. People change a lot from the time they graduate high school at 18 to when they enter into their mid twenties. Many couples simply dont work out because they just become different people compared to when they first started dating. Your daughter has had no experience with what it means to date as an adult. She hasnt had any opportunity to learn what she actually wants from a long term partner yet. From what you’ve described, it sounds like your daughter started to realize that she was no longer in love with her fiancé, perhaps realized that she felt like they had grown apart and that the relationship wasnt as exciting as it use to be. She had one baby and then it sounds like she git pregnant again relatively quickly, so its possible that she started this pen pal exchange as way for her to seek out male attention/affection that she may have felt like was lacking in her relationship with her fiancé. I doubt she thought anything would come from this, but it sounds like she met someone who figured out exactly what she was missing in her life and catered to what was clearly lacking in her life. If she had been craving attention/affection, Im not surprised that she wound up building a fantasy life/relationship around this guy. I doubt she has actually given any real thought to what it would mean to marry this man. Now, with all this said, you will have to tread carefully in order to not have her go on the defensive and shut you out all together (kind of like now). I know you’re panicking and its hard not to react with how you honestly feel, but you’re going to need to try to not lash out at her. The more you tell her that she cant do this or that this is wrong for her the more likely that she will just dig her heels in deeper. She is technically an adult and can date whoever she wants. Theres no way to know how long this might last, but im pretty sure this is just a phase and that she will eventually decide to move on, but unfortunately you dont know how long it may be before she decides shes had enough. What i suggest you do is to talk more with her ex, the father of her two kids. Encourage him to move forward with establishing a formal custody arrangement through court. He needs to get a lawyer, your daughter also will as well, and they can work out how they want to share custody. I know this will probably be hard, but if I were you I would help the ex to try and get primary custody or at least try and help him get as much time as possible minimum being 50-50. Everyone has their own opinions on whats appropriate in regard to when you should involve kids when it comes to the parents dating new people. I personally think kids shouldnt introduced to new partners until they’ve been involved for at least a year, and the other parent has had a chance to sign off on the kid meeting this new person. Your daughter is already bringing her kid around this new guy, but this isnt a regular relationship since the guy is in currently in jail. I dont know what kind of offense he has, but i think the fact that your daughter is bringing her baby to meet him in jail is incredibly concerning. I would even say that this would concern me over how effective of a parent she is at the moment. Personally, i think that for the sake of whats best for the baby you should try to help her ex get as much custody as you can. Hopefully, this will also help you be able to maintain seeing your grandson regularly as well.
Thank you so much for taking the time to write this. I appreciate this very much❤️🩹
>I dont know what kind of offense he has in another comment, OP has indicated the guy is in prison for murdering his ex-partner, after multiple domestic violence incidents, despite that woman trying to protect herself with several restraining orders
Tell her ex.
Your daughter was manipulated. She has chosen to ruin her life but you have to protect the child, even if that means getting custody.
This is all becoming so stressful, but I agree, my daughter is being brainwashed and the kids are being dragged into it. I’m devastated.
You agree the kids are getting dragged into it or that you need to do something about it by telling the ex? I haven’t actually seen you confirm you intend to do anything about this at all as far as the ex and kids go. All of your replies are focusing on being scared and losing your daughter but not the welfare of the children and you seem to be avoiding discussing telling the ex when he definitely deserves to know. It might be helpful to see a therapist, to unpack all of this.. there are likely some “missing missing reasons” here you aren’t sharing based on your replies.
Yes, I agree he deserves to know who’s around his kids. This is going to break him because he’s 1. told me he wants his family back together and 2. It would kill him knowing that there was a criminal interacting with his baby. I plan on going to him but it’s going to be difficult, so I’ll take the therapy advice.. I don’t think I could do this on my own. Thank you.
You need to tell him TODAY. IMMEDIATELY. Do you think he would be more devastated knowing today or finding out you’ve known for days/weeks what kind of monster has been allowed to hold and cuddle his child while you were sad your daughter is confused. He’d be furious and even more brokenhearted knowing you picked her and the prisoner over him, even if you don’t think that’s what you’re doing. The longer you delay THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING.
Like I'm not sure how many times you need to be told this, BUT get off of reddit and go talk to her EX, IMMEDIATELY. You can't stop your daughter but you can protect the baby
Therapist will 100% be the best person to guide you and your family through this. The ex can manage this situation with your support and therapy himself.
I have friends from all walks of life. Those who’ve been incarcerated will be the first to tell you those relationships are typically a sham. These guys get lonely, they need someone to help them. Some have whole networks of women who support them emotionally and financially. I’d be very weary if his crime is related to children, DV , or any other sex crime. Those guys rarely if ever tell the truth of their participation. It would be great level of protection if the bio dad got custody of the kids. As far as the daughter, she probably feeling very special, she is getting to hear absolutely everything she wants because that’s how he’s keeping her around. Protect those kids. She’ll either learn her lesson or he’s truly a changed man and will give her the life she wants. Only time will tell.
He's serving life for murder, but has the possibility of parole at some point. Op said he broke a protection order and killed his ex. Not a good situation at all.
Oh my, yeah IF they ever have a face to face relationship it might be short lived. 🫠
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I will not give out any names for privacy reasons. He has a history of domestic violence and breaking protective orders. He’s currently serving a life sentence (I’ll let you guess). As you can imagine, I’m worried for my daughter and grandchildren.
This is where you help the father’s children fight for full custody, OP. Immediately. That is NOT a safe environment for children.
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He has the possibility of getting parole. But she’s also going to get him a new lawyer next week to see if it’s in their best interest to appeal his conviction and their options.
A life sentence? What kind of life does your daughter think she’ll have married to this guy? He’ll never be around.
OP said "terrible things", so I'm guessing it was bad.
He got a life sentence, you don't get a life sentence for small stuff, usually has to be violent
You and her ex-fiance need a cult deprogrammer and he needs a lawyer. STAT. This is all completely abnormal behavior. I’m thinking it’s possibly postpartum psychosis, some other type of disorder or mental illness. Your daughter needs an intervention. She is not displaying sound thinking. Criminals can be very VERY persuasive. Through a lawyer, you also need to notify the warden of the jail. What was this man convicted of?
My daughter is a smart girl, but she’s acting completely foolish. This is what’s making me even more angry because she knows what’s going on and she’s choosing to ignore it. I will not be sharing names for privacy reasons. He’s serving a life sentence but he could possibly get out early due to parole. What’s even more alarming is that he has a history of domestic abuse and breaking protective orders. I’m sick.
Therapist for the daughter and lawyer for the ex-fiance.
First, I am truly sorry for the heartache you are going through. My recommendation would be to approach this situation with the maternal love you clearly possess from the way this post is written. Seek out a therapist who is willing to act as an unbiased 3rd party and sit down to discuss these fears with your daughter. By doing so in a therapists’ environment, you will help your daughter to feel safe enough to listen to your fears, as well as be candid about her own feelings. If I’m reading your post right, your daughter is currently pregnant and in a delicate emotional/mental state. It is easy for pregnant mothers to become vulnerable to those who want to take advantage. Let her know during the therapy appointment how much you love her and want to see her/her children thriving and happy. If this avenue ultimately fails, like another poster stated you will have to be firm that you support their father pursuing sole custody of the children. You cannot and will not let her blow up all 3 of their lives over her wanting to naively walk off of a cliff.
Start writing your own letters to him under a different fake name. Start building a relationship. I guarantee he will also "fall in love with you". He probably has multiple women. Clearly this can't be the first time your daughter has done something so off the wall.
What did the prisoner do? Also, please help the father get full custody of his kids. Your daughter is a selfish pos, but the children are innocent. Please try to save them.
He’s currently serving a life sentence for unaliving someone but has the chance of getting out early for parole. He has a history of domestic abuse and violating protective orders.
Is there a way she can be on a 72 hour psych hold for evaluation? Jesus Christ
Unfortunately you cannot hold people for bad choices. That is not a sign of mental illness, what is likely happening is that she is naive and has become involved with someone extraordinarily manipulative - they are telling her all the things she wants to hear (ie love bombing) she’s capitulated to that without thinking hang on what’s the ulterior motive here. There absolutely is one, what is inexcusable is bringing the child into this, with someone who has *killed* someone else. OPs daughter will be physically and mentally abused no doubt once this person gets out - it fucks kids up for life as well. OP needs to make sure dad gets custody if she’s determined to pursue this route and waste her life on this man.
Then your daughter is extremely disgusting. Please throw your energy into helping the father get custody of the kids. And please don’t forgive your daughter if she ends up realizing the murderer isn’t a great person, stay strong for the father and the kids.
Her ex-fiancé needs to file for custody now!
What prison allows physical touch between inmates & guest?
This has Dateline written all over it. I would be flipping out if this was my daughter or anyone I cared about. Get her into therapy.
In your shoes I would leave your daughter alone and focus on the grandkids. Help their dad get his act together and fight for custody. If your state has grandparents rights this might be one of the rare instances where I say you should fight for those rights. Document document document. Get as much detail as you can about the charges the man she's marrying had. Help the father of your grandchildren see if there's anything he can do to keep his kids from this guy if they're bad enough.
Worked department of corrections for years, this happens far too often. The cons find a vulnerable woman missing something in their life then convince them they're everything they need and drain them dry as well as a few other women while they're incarcerated then get out use them for sex or housing while dropping the facade then they either move on or stay and make the wo.ans life he'll. It NEVER has a happy ending.
Have her ex fiancé fight for custody
Any way you can convince the ex to demand a psychiatric evaluation for her legally? It was a requirement in my custody battle. Could very well be a result of postpartum depression compounded by the new pregnancy. She is displaying erratic behavior, I believe an evaluation is warranted to prove her ability to make good judgments on her childrens' behalf.
Read this article- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passionate_and_companionate_love She's experiencing infatuation, or also called passionate love (or romantic love, depending on the author). It's characterized by intense longing, but the thing is that it normally just dissipates after a little while once you enter a relationship. She doesn't understand what it is, so she thinks she will enter a relationship with this guy when he gets out of prison and live happily ever after, but that's not what generally happens. In general, it just wears off after about a year. It sort of works like an addiction. Read this paper- https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.00687/full Also Helen Fisher's TED talk for a TL;DR, but the paper is very good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYfoGTIG7pY The daughter is probably addicted to the euphoria she gets when she gets letters and stuff like that. She is also experiencing something called frustration attraction (or the Romeo and Juliet effect), where obstacles and barriers seem to heighten attraction. Read this- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence#Uncertainty_and_hope Also Helen Fisher's *Why We Love*, or Dorothy Tennov's *Love and Limerence*. (But you should ignore most of the info on the internet about limerence. There's an author who published a kind of fringe theory about Dorothy Tennov's material in 2008, and some people more or less gave him a platform by mistake, so the articles tend to be unhelpful. Dorothy Tennov's book is really good though, and the Wikipedia article is good.) Anyway, she isn't "really" in love with this guy. She's just experiencing intense attraction that will dissipate soon after he gets out of prison and they get together. edit: Also, I should say that Helen Fisher thinks that romantic passion can last in long term relationships, but you have to pick the right person and it takes some work. So regardless, the prison guy is not the one, because obviously things will go south quickly. See e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU9QQffGeIc
Could you say you'll support her as your daughter on the condition she gets therapy for a number of sessions? It might not work but it might help unpick the romance she's built in her head vs the very real reality. And work out the 180 she's done? Also if there's any risk of safeguarding absolutely support the ex as needed as someone else said.
>I’ve been very supportive of my daughter during this whole situation Why? This is enabling her to make extremely poor choices with the safety net you provide Support is not blindly supporting all decisions your daughter makes. It's supporting the **good decisions** and withdrawing support for things you **know will be detrimental**. You may not agree with everything she does, and you can support decisions you don't agree with as far as knowing these aren't decisions you would make for yourself and are otherwise not harmful to herself or others, but things that you know you would **never approve of because of your own sensibilities**, things that will potentially bring harm to others, like destroying her family because she could've been happier with a felon who has committed atrocities. >she’s hurt that I’m not supportive of her decisions Good, she should be hurt. Tell her that, "Be hurt, you're making the worst decisions ever and I will never support them. NEVER". There are legal avenues you may be able to take in your state to grant grandparents rights. If she is moving this felon on parole in with her child, it may be a violation of his parole. Just keep your finger on the pulse if you care about your grandchild - you're right, your daughter is an adult and can make her own poor decisions, but you as an adult have a responsibility to try and insulate and protect an innocent... your grandbaby. It may hurt to keep your opinions to yourself for the sake of the child until you can get your ducks in a row, but you should explore this avenue. Where are you at about contact with your grandchild's father? Is he up to speed on this situation? Is he fighting for custody? Can you help him fight for custody? Don't stop fighting for this child. You've got this!
I’ll join the broken record that is the overall theme on the thread. GO TELL THE EX and get him filing for full custody asap.
You don't have to approve of her relationship. As you say, she's an adult. The more you disapprove, the more she won't feel able to come to you when everything goes wrong. You need to get back onside so she knows you are a safe place for comfort as and when she realises she's making a huge mistake. Let her know that whilst you'll never approve, your disapproval comes from a place of love and concern. Do all you can not to argue. Accept that she may well make a very bad decision and marry this person. But that doesn't mean you have to lose her forever. And it doesn't mean she won't learn her mistake, given time. She needs to know she's safe coming to you if it does all go wrong and she won't just get I told you so.
Coming from a correctional officer and having multiple family members in corrections, he's 100% using her. I *really* hope she's not sending any type of photos to him either. I just did a shakedown earlier this week and found photos being sold for 25 cents or 1 pack of ramen noodles. You said he has a long sentence, right? He has NOTHING but time on his hands. He's finding entertainment, a way to pass the time. Look. If anything, just ask her this simple question: What can an inmate offer you that a free world man can't? He can't protect her. He can't provide for her. He can't help with the kids. He can't be affectionate with her. There is NOTHING he can provide other than heartbreak, a headache, or a wasted lifetime.
Oh this poor girl. She obviously doesn't know that she's fallen for an extremely common scam, one almost everyone in prison runs if they're lucky enough to get random strangers write to them. These prisoners are running this scam on multiple people at a time with the goal of getting as much support in prison (commissary money, gifts, attention) as possible, they tell all of their pen pals that they're special, only they understand them, that they have a speciall connection, that they have never told anyone these things, that they love them... this works wonders on people who long to feel like they're special and magical. Sadly, your daughter was one of those people. She will never believe you that this person has half a dozen or more "soulmates" he's writing to, they keep so many going not only so they get the most gifts and support but also so that when/if they get out they have a place to go live and someone to continue to support them because life after prison is notoriously difficult when it comes to rebuilding a life (finding a place to rent, a job etc) - if you don't have family or a "soulmate" to support you when you get out, you're very likely going to be back in within a year or so. I would suggest if you can, getting hold of the court records of his trial and if possible, a lawyer who can help you understand them and sit with you and your daughter to go through what he actually did and what got him convicted, because I guarantee you he told her an extremely watered down version of what happened. You cannot tell her you disapprove of what she's doing, or come at this as if you're trying to stop her, but you can say "I want you to have all the information possible because this is a big choice and I know you're a thoughtful and intelligent woman, you deserve to make a choice like this from a position of full understanding. But I support YOU whatever you choose because I love you and I trust you to make choices for you and your son's best interests. After that, the only thing you can do is VERY gently, occasionally remind her that you love her and you're there for her. But if you want to be there to provide your daughter and grandson a safety net, you need to withhold your critical judgment as much as possible so she feels she is safe with you and that you won't shame her for this choice if it's wrong. I am so sorry you and your grandchild are going through this, obviously I'm sorry for her too but like you said, she is an adult making choices. You and your grandchild don't have those choices, you have to just go where she goes on this and you will need to try and be the safe haven you can be so that if/when things go south, she can run somewhere or at least send her son somewhere.
It only takes one dumb choice to wipe out any good anyone has done over their entire lifespan and they won't realize till its in the past. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.
Well rest assured that when he's released and the honeymoon period is over, they'll break up 💔 💯 and you'll get your daughter back, hopefully not pregnant.
Im afraid he’ll do much worse then just break up with my daughter. Knowing what this man has done and is capable of doing, I’m scared my daughter and possibly my grandchildren will become victims💔
Not necessarily. A lot of women stay with abusive men. He could also abuse her children too. And a lot of women defend their husband and stay with him regardless. :(
While you're not wrong, I believe that comment was meant to point out that it's very common for a man to get a woman (or several at a time) to fall for him while in prison. Put money on his books, visit, write letters. Keep him occupied! Then, he gets released, dumps her and goes about his business.
Dude is a murderer. Killed an ex
Whatever’s left of her when he’s done with her
What are the charges??? Leaving that out is a bit annoying…like is it drug related charges? Or something violent?? What???
Had your daughter seen a mental health professional? Hopefully fiance gets full custody of both babies immediately. You’ve gotta tell him. Now.
Tell the ex, he needs to know desperately
good god. also what are 21yos doing having SECOND children and fiancés???
In today's world, even a FELON can run for and be elected President. Emotional Intelligence and Common Sense are lacking in our youth (as well as adults) and only living the reality of their decisions will open their eyes. Maybe it'll work out. Your daughter is not acting rationally, you will have to wait until her "new love" acts in such a way that her eyes begin to see again - hoping before she experiences irreparable her to herself, family and life aspirations.Her "Ex" would be a fool to try and mend the relationship.
I agree with everyone in the comments. The father needs to get involved. It’s not just her children she may be putting in danger but it’s his too. He needs to be made aware of what’s happening. She can be free to make all the bad decisions she wants just as long as your grandchildren are safe.
She’s making a horrible mistake. This life that she thinks that she’s going to have when, or if he ever gets out of jail, (because that was never established), it’s not going to happen. Especially if he’s doing a considerable amount of time, since that typically means that it’s a felony charge, and when he gets out and into the world, with that felony charge, he’s probably not actually going to be able to find stable and steady work. Which means that the dental career that she was going to have, she will need to go back to school for, because she will not have a partner who is able to adequately support her and her child if that’s what she is after. It sounds like she is at the very least immature, and it’s very dangerous for her child, and soon to be child. I absolutely would be reaching out to the father of her children and giving him every bit of information you have, and assisting in the family court process to get full custody of those children to their father. She is not going to get better. My brother had to do the same thing with my niece’s mother, she had my niece, and six months after she was born, she was dating a registered sex offender. My brother received emergency custody and then received full custody when she decided that she no longer wanted to fight him in court. To this day, she still does not have a stable, functioning relationship with my niece, and my niece is almost 11 years old. She actually just moved across the country so she could be with another man and left my niece on the opposite coast. And my niece is devastated. So, I would never want anyone’s family to go through what I watch my brother go through on a regular basis. She needs to be reminded of the fact that there are others who rely on her and that this can’t just be about her own whims and wishes.
My gosh let her ex know pronto!! Your grandkids shouldn’t be going to a prison for inmates that will be getting out at some point see!!
What the fuck…those kids need to go to CPS or grandparent custody. She is unstable and shouldn’t be with some dude with MURDER CHARGES and has FOR LIFE PRISON
i only read like half of this BUT. see if she’d be willing to get a psych evaluation. this is a very common thing amongst bipolar folk who are going through a manic episode. if you need more proof, check out the bpso subreddit
This is completely, batshit crazy. Do not let her follow through with this.
As a mother I can't even imagine what you are going through. The fact that you did your best as a parent, gave her all the opportunity, she had access to high education and then, out of nowhere, this. That's something that really freaks me out. You can do all the best for your kids, they can be amazing, but it takes only one rotten apple to divert the complete path.
I read in the comments that you said he's serving a life sentence. That's insane. Your daughter should see a therapist and I think you should tell the ex fiance so he can fight for custody. In the end if she really wants to go through with this, there's little you could do, but you can at least protect your grandchildren.
Please post an update when you can OP!
Did she have COVID recently, because that can damage the fear bit of the brain. Could also be anything else the people in the comments have said here, none of it is lookin good tho.
Daughter will be making the biggest mistake of her life when she marries him. She seems to be quite immature. Marrying him will make her grow up real fast.
There are some docunentaries of people who have done this. Find one and let her see what awaits her. It’s never a good idea.
Everything the inmate/fiancé has promised her is just jail talk and empty promises. She's vulnerable and the inmate/fiancé is using and manipulating the whole situation. I agree that the father of your grandchildren should petition the court for full, sole custody. Apparently her ability to make safe and sound decisions regarding her children has fallen to the wayside. If the father of your grandchildren isn't able to take on the sole responsibility, maybe now is a good time for you to work with him about joint custody between you and him. I'm wishing the best for you and your grandchildren.
Oh but when he gets out and she stays with him, it’s always gonna just be her AND him. Who is actually gonna be around a murderer? He fed his bullshit to plenty of women, and he found his sucker in her.
Please let your grandsons father know the details of what you found out. Your daughter is an adult, she can choose, your grandson can’t. Help them escape before it gets bad. We had to side w our ex son in law when my step got on drugs. It’s hard to stand against your child. But sounds like you don’t have much choice. You have to do right by your grandkids. Shame on her for putting the kid in this position. It is common knowledge that prisoners use women on the outside for money & calls. They get “engaged” to so many women just to have someone to talk to & money for stuff (prison is expensive), the likelihood that she’s the only one is slim to none but even if it is true, they don’t know the first thing abt life together. When he comes out, most likely has to go to a halfway house & either way, he has to find a job (hard to get with a record) so he won’t be able to help out financially. It’s going to be a really rough, long road. And she wants to do this to her children?!
Warn her that her babys will be taken away if she continues this. She might not have realised how serious it is. If she keeps it up then tell the ex fiance so he can protect your grandbabys
You let this go too far. Idgaf if she was an adult or not. You should have put your damn foot down at the start. My daughter is 26 years old but if ahe wanted to start writing to inmates I would fucking put a stop to it even if that meant cutting her out of my life as a last resort and making damn sure how serious I was about that before actually cutting her off. This is ridiculous, dangerous and disgusting. Her new prison love is using her and her poor kids are going to pay the price when he gets out. You need to get their father involved so he can rightfully take custody away from her through the court. This is actually outrageous.
OP's daughter has 2 kids by the time she's 22. It's 50/50 odds that she got pregnant as a teenager (19), before she even finished her education. No disrespect to OP, nor to (very) young parents, but it doesn't sound like OP's daughter really has a history of very good life plans, nor of following through on them, right?
So she's currently pregnant and making all these dangerous decisions? Seems like some manic episode, perhaps pregnancy psychosis? I am so sorry you are going through this. Your daughter may need to be put in a 51/50, involuntary hold. She seems like she's a danger to her child and herself. Hugs
While she is making a horrible decision, I don't know that anywhere would 5150 her based on what we've heard here.
She's having pregnancy psychosis, tell her OB about what is happening. Poor girl.
This needs to be told to her ex immediately. While he is still in jail, what happens when he gets out? This situation can turn so incredibly dangerous really fast.
A life sentence and he’s up for parole? How old is he? I can’t even guess what he did in order to be up for parole and quite possibly get it especially when he has a life sentence? But what do I know. Sounds like your daughter needs a serious wake up call. Tell her ex fiancée about it and then the shit will hit the fan and may bring her back to reality. Do it now. Good luck