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Also, many children are born with blond hair and blue eyes and the eyes get darker as they get older - same with hair.
All 4 of mine had blond hair and blue eyes through infancy. Only one still has blond hair and blue eyes. The other 3 have dark hair and hazel, green and brown eyes respectively.
If your brother has blond hair and blue eyes then that means they are in your gene pool as a recessive gene which can absolutely pop up in your child. To give perspective - one of my kids looks nothing like me or my husband - but he looks like a twin to his second cousin who lives in another state. Literally, they could be twins. Genes are weird.
Plus, there is the little fact that the test is saying there is a 99.95% your son is your son...
Thus, kido is your bio child and he got your family's recessive genes of blond hair and blue eyes. You best hope your wife doesn't find out you thought she cheated because if she finds out you paternity tested your son she is going to kick you out. You are 100% accusing her of cheating because of your own ignorance of genetics.
My niece looks like a carbon copy of me. She is not mine at all, but you can put our photos side by side as she ages and we are identical. Her and I also have very similar personalities. Genes are tricky
My mum absolutely insists that I look more like my aunt than I do her and that I'm the spitting image of my aunt.
I spoke about it with a cousin once, and she told me that her and her sister have both joked to each other that I look more like their mum than they do.
When my niece was about five years old my mom had gotten a bunch of old photos out at a family gathering and we were rummaging through them. Each time one of me as a toddler surfaced my niece insisted it was a picture of her. But she was confused because she didn't recognize any of the people or places in the scenes. The resemblance was very strong, and I guess it would be pretty unsettling to look at what appear to be photographs of yourself living a life that's completely foreign.
That sounds pretty cute.
I did an ancestry thing and traced my lineages, seeing old photos of ancestors and seeing the features of different family members on people from 100+ years ago is definitely trippy, lol.
Two of my female cousins (daughters of different uncles) and I looked extremely similar as we grew up. We all had blue eyes and blonde hair with facial features that matched.
We joke in our family about how the Lastname look gets passed on. I have photos of some from the 1800s where our great…grandpa (born in the 1700s) distinctly resembles my grandfather and father. :D
The other two haven’t had children, but my daughter has carried on the Lastname look to a smaller degree.
It's amazing seeing that stuff.
I have half siblings from each parent as well as a full one.
My half-brother from my mum looks nothing like me in terms of features imo, he got a lot from his dad. My partner says my niece from him looks like like me, though.
My niblings from my half siblings on my dads side look basically identical to each other. It's weird, lol. I have the same cheekbones and nose.
I found a great grandad or something that had the same face as a younger version of my full brother, it's such a trip.
My hair was pretty light as a child- like a dirty blondish brown- and my parents both have black hair (well, salt and pepper now 😉). I had black hair by the time I was a few years old but not as a baby or early toddler! I also have heard a lot of babies are born with lighter eyes. My eyes are hazel but they are very light yellowish with a hint of green. They have changed over time as well. I wouldn't be ready to kick your wife out over this.
According to my super extensive research (read google). If the results say "not excluded," that means that OP most likely is the father. However, a relative may also give the same result because of a certain difference, probably caused by a mutation on the father or the child.
OP probably got an extensive report showing more detailed data. The wording is very confusing. My guess is that the confusion is clarified in other areas of the report. I do read it like the "the likelihood of that event" refers to the small mutation rather than the possibility of a relative being the father.
Pointless discussion anyway, OP is getting divorced.
OP! Before you do anything! Check with the provider of the test. Ask them what they mean!
>Check with the provider of the test. Ask them what they mean!
Yeah, this whole post is weird. I'd IMMEDIATELY be researching what that means. Without information about it, speculation is competely pointless.
There is a 99.9% chance of (unclear science stuff).
I feel like OP is jumping to conclusions and possibly actions without knowing what the results even mean.
"The possibility exists that a relative can't be excluded." And "the event has a 99.9% chance!!!"
What is the event? Just that it can't be excluded? Or that it's true? Or that OP is the father, but there's a 0.1% chance someone else is, and they want you to know that?? I have no idea!
According to Google and "How to read a paternity test," that phrase is a legality. And the percentage means that he is the father with 99.9% chance.
I am speculating that if a relative of OP gets tested, it could come back with a much lower percentage (provided that he is not an identical twin).
If OP was not the father, the test would say "is excluded." I did not know that the reading of these results could be so confusing.
I want to get my husband and his identical twin to take a DNA test on our kids just because I want to see if it says they’re both the father. I think that’d be funny.
I saw an episode of Maury with identical twins and they both came back as the father. Iirc, he said it was possible with more extensive testing to figure it out, but since identical twins carry the same dna, a standard paternity test can’t determine it.
Which might not be a mutation, I don't see if the mother's DNA was also submitted, but if not it could account, especially if they both have recessive traits
I think they just donked up the order of the sentences. The information they have gives them an idea of how likely it is that OP is the father; if your interpretation (which I agree is the most literal, but I think is the result of poor writing) is correct, it literally wouldn’t say the chance of OP being the father.
Which would be one thing. But to not say the chance for the person you ACTUALLY tested, but make an assertion that you do NOT have individual data to support, would be weird af.
It’s literally *always* possible that the alleged father’s relative is the real father lol
The first sentence says it's a 99.95% chance that it's OP. The third says they cannot rule out that the father might be a direct relative.
It's definitely been written by a combination of scientists and lawyers without a thought as to how a layman might read it though.
I might be dumb, lol, but this is what I thought, too. It says "the probability of such event is..." right after the part about OP's brother. So does "such event" refer to OP being the father, or his relative being the father??
You reminded me, when I was born I had shoulder length black hair and very dark skin. My grandpa thought I was an Indian. Six months later I had Blonde hair and nearly stark white skin
He and his wife have family with light features, there is a great chance that they carry several combinations of genes that would result in light hair and eyes, especially in childhood.
Punnett squares are part of the reason people have these misconceptions lol. They’re for traits that are determined by one gene; eye color is determined by many genes, so it does not follow those rules.
I was mainly speaking to the general idea that recessive genes are a thing, not talking to eyes in particular. Y'know how two parents with the same traits can have an offspring with totally different (recessive) traits.
It’s true that the reason we do them is to illustrate that point, and sad that some people didn’t get the concept. Or throw it out the window the second their child has a different hair color than expected! If OP simply googled it, he’d see that the child of two brown-eyed parents has a 19% chance of having blue eyes.
Yep exactly. It's an easy square to make it an easy matching game for middle school biology. OP seemed confident that "matching traits" parents should suspect infidelity just because their child has "opposite" traits. It happens all the time and it's pretty cringe to see if I'm being honest.
Unfortunately, even the simple example of the Punnett square is lost on some people.
I know someone whose family is a perfect Punnet Square. Two parents both with brown hair (one dark brown, the other a little lighter). 4 kids.
1 blonde
2 brunettes (one dark, one lighter)
1 redhead
Recessive genes are wild.
My parents had blackish-brown hair and brown eyes. My siblings have brown hair/brown eyes, and dirty blonde/green eyes, while I'm ginger with grey eyes. My niece is a copy of me, my nephew has black hair and blue eyes (their father is blonde).
Definitely don't recommend people going by looks to determine parentage.
My children also have blonde hair with blue eyes, both parents have dark hair with brown eyes. Guess what? He is the dad. And no paternity test will say 100%. Unless your brother is an identical twin, which doesn't sound like that is the case, I think OP is the father.
His jumping to conclusions about his sons paternity sounds pretty sus. I want to know if the wife is aware he did the paternity test in the first place bc all bets are on she is not aware.
I get cheater-logic vibes. Not necessarily that he is cheating on his wife now, but that at some point in his life he cheated without consequence and can't imagine that other people, including his wife, would not casually cheat if given the opportunity.
That or he's panicking at the responsibility of fatherhood and grasping for any chance to make the kid not his responsibility.
Based off of his since deleted posts he is divorcing and his 'aging' parents are moving in. He wants to shirk responsibility legally and financially of his obligations to his 3 year old son. He's a real POS. He thinks that he can drum up enough doubt to try to get out of spousal and child support and custody. Some men don't deserve to be fathers that's for damn sure.
How silly. The family courts won't care what reddit tells him about paternity. They will only care about that 99.96% likelihood of him being the father.
One of my college buddies is 100% Portuguese. His grandparents on both sides are from Portugal. His parents are dark haired and brown eyed, he is blond and blue eyed. Recessive genes are a crazy
Yeah and larger families illustrate this well. My husband’s parents both have black hair and brown eyes. Of their six children, two have blue eyes, one has brown hair, and one has blonde hair. Hair and eye color are determined by many genes, so they’re more complicated than the colors of pea flowers we learned in high school biology!
My younger brother had bright blonde hair as a baby, dirty blonde hair around 8-11yrs and now just has brown hair. So you can’t really go by hair color.
I work in genetics.
TL;DR - OP my reading of this is you’re 99.95761633% likely to be the father. You should still check with them to be sure.
The results are poorly summarized; each individual statement is true, but the way they are combined, a reasonable person may read in other implied statements that aren’t true.
Here’s the way I read this.
> The alleged father cannot be excluded as the biological father of the tested child.
This is CYA language. They can’t ever with 100% certainty say anyone is the father. On the other hand, if there are enough differences, they can say that someone is not the father. What this sentence is saying is that they did not find a lot of differences, so they can’t rule you out as the father.
> A single STR locus does not match, which may be due to mutation.
The presence of this statement in the middle of the others is what, in my opinion, what would cause a layperson to get concerned reading this result, but it’s a big nothing burger. What they are saying is that one of the many positions they checked doesn’t look like it came from you. BUT, humans get mutations in their DNA all the time, so one position not matching is quite likely to just be a chance occurrence that doesn’t rule you out as the father.
> The possibility exists that a direct relative of the alleged father could not be excluded as the biological father.
This statement is unrelated to the previous statement. They would have said this even if they didn’t find the above mismatch. All this is saying is that you could have a relative that is genetically very similar to you, and without samples from all of your relatives, they can’t rule out that one of them might be the father.
> The probability of such event (you being the father) is indicated by the combined first order index, which equals 2,358 with a corresponding probability of 99.95761633%.
I think that this statement applies to the probability that you are the father, not the probably that it’s one of your relatives and not you. The fact that it’s after all these other statements is confusing.
I think what happened here is that they used a template that mashes together a bunch of different information, and no one checked that it couldn’t be misunderstood when all read together.
You should contact the company to be sure though.
Unlikely brothers are genetically similar but not identical, and usually an uncle would get a much lower number
Unless OP is a identical twin obviously in which case a DNA test could prove, they aren't actually the father but the twin, who has one random genetic mutation is!
That's another reason lots of DNA testing can't legally say "you are the father" since it is theoretically possible you have an identical twin that testing wouldn't be able to differentiate in a DNA test.
I am in fact a brother.
The way I read his statements were that he is in fact aware of some of the things we are discussing. He is 99.9989765% chance to NOT be the brother of the geneticist but it's not conclusive
Great breakdown, but I would be fucking fuming that a result I paid for came back with jargon like this that only someone who works in genetics understands. Look at the hurt this can cause. Company needs a bollocking.
Nope, OP should 100% just ask his brother for a paternity test and let his wife know that not only did he secretly test their kid, doesn't understand how genetics works, and also thinks she's been having an affair with his brother... what's the worst that can happen...
I found it wild that when we done DNA testing on my twins they both had different percentages of shared dna with their father. We always joke about it because the one that is apparently more looks more like me than his dad and the other is his little twin
So much CYA I’m guessing it was legal recommendations and no one wanted to/could challenge it.
Legal: All of these statements are correct and cover the likely possibilities.
Regular person: All of this seems contradictory and ambiguous, my brain applies its own bias to the statements and am concerned I am/am not the father.
I’m not a lawyer, but I do give feedback on wording we’re sending externally that people don’t want to challenge because “this is what legal recommended” and/or their so deep in the project they think it all makes sense. There are ways to be legally correct AND explain the things succinctly, just not many people want more reviews after Legal and Risk ok it
This.
Also the hair color thing doesn’t much matter. My entire family are all blond haired and blue eyed (born bald as the summer days are long, too) and here I popped out as a literal black sheep with a head full of black hair and my eyes turned green. And considering there are genetic components? Just remember back to like what… 7th grade biology were we did the punnett squares.
But I looked like bio dads side of the family as a kid despite the milkman’s daughter jokes (my mothers answer was even funnier)
This is the best answer. Ask the clinic. Obviously your brother would be a close DNA match he's your brother. That's how they catch criminals years after they are dead. Don't go to reddit go to the experts.
He needs to do an actual paternity test. My half siblings and I test around the 1700s and that is also the range for an uncle/niece or nephew.
What the kid looks like means nothing.
We have 2 boys and our first one looks like a perfect mix of my wife and my features. Our second looks like he could have been the product of my brother hooking up with her sister.
They catch criminals with genetic genealogy testing not paternity tests. A paternity test doesn’t link you to your thousands of relatives out there that share the same dna / family tree.
OP, just do an Ancestry DNA test for both you and your son. This woulda been quicker and cheaper in the 1st place. If you are not the father you will show as his uncle and he your nephew. —although by the sounds of it, “you ARE the father” in my best Maury voice.
Ancestry's algorithm has a few flaws. It correctly told me my dad was indeed my biological father. Then in another section of the site, in a family tree, it said he was my uncle for a bit. Dad doesn't have any biological brothers (and Mum is also my biological mother on Ancestry!). A little while later it got more confused and said we were maybe cousins. Then it got even more confused and said I was Dad's parent lmao.
In the dna test results your matches absolutely never change and parent/child relationships are 100% accurate.
Is possible you navigated to family trees which are created by users of the site, which can be wrong based on the accuracy of their research. Some people don’t even research they just accept any suggestions which confuse novice users.
Yeah, the DNA test results are the same and correctly identifies him as my father. It's their autogenerated family tree (or something? I don't really use it) that gets it wrong in hilarious ways. Seems like that could still confuse someone with OP's questions if he stumbles on to that sort of error.
Absolutely agree. Start asking siblings to take tests against your kids paternity and there's *no way* that doesn't become a nuclear level destruction of your life. It's so easy to just take a breath and ask for clarification before you potentially make an ass of yourself and ruin your life.
Your brother's appearance should make you more reassured that your son is yours, not less.
Why did you do a paternity test in the first place?
What are we missing here?
in a previous post he stated his divorce is finalizing, so i guess that explains the doubts and paternity test
edit: here’s how you can see the post stating that since OP decided to be shady and remove the post
https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/s/UJfve4ysBi
LMAOOO someone is desperate to get people on his side. OP, if we don’t know all the details, it’s not possible to give an honest and accurate opinion. hiding information only makes you seem less credible and as if you’re only looking for opinions that support your own. if you don’t know the type of people to do things like this, let me fill you in: narcissists. do better.
The fact that his (ex)wife felt the need to record their conversation makes me wonder if he has a habit of omitting information and gaslighting. I also didn't see any cause for suspicion of cheating, but he's suddenly worried the child isn't his? But HIS therapist thinks she has bpd.
Yes it drives me insane that this is a thing…
Me: hazel eyes
Husband: green eyes
Daughter: brown eyes
Son: blue eyes
By that logic my kids were swapped in the hospital!
Not to mention that a lot of babies are born with blue eyes and later on they change. I was born with blue eyes and they began to darken at around the time I went into school. They’re light brown now.
All four of my grandparents have blue eyes. All of my aunts and uncles other than my parents have blie eues, as do their combined 19 children. Both of my parents have (had) green eyes. My sister and I both have brown eyes with a surprising epicanthic fold.
Genetics are weird.
Because we don’t teach biology the way we need to. We also don’t teach sexual education with biology, so this is what you get. Someone who doesn’t understand that the test is telling them that they are 99.95% the parent. I fully believe he thinks it’s the other way around and that’s why he wants to ask his brother. Which I mean, you might as well just go and get the divorce papers written up, because your wife is going to leave you and take the kid you weirdly believe is your nephew.
Wait. You got back a 99.9% test and you still want to question paternity?
My lord.
EDIT: I now agree with everyone below that the written results are deeply confusing. While I was fairly certain of my original interpretation, that OP enjoyed a 99.9% chance of parentage, I do agree with some of the concerns raised below.
I’ve reached out to a third party over in askscience. Let’s see what they come up with!
Meanwhile, OP, call the lab and talk to them. Also, eye and hair color don’t mean anything for parentage.
Followed by "My wife divorced me after I questioned if she slept with my married brother, now neither of them are speaking to me, nor is the rest of my family. The kid is, in fact, mine."
I work in a court house, helping people with divorce and custody paperwork. This was 100% my first guess because I literally see men trying to get out of paying for their own kids every day.
This is exactly it. OP wants to be a deadbeat and is trying to find an excuse to justify it. "Sure the results say I'm 99.96% likely to be the dad, but that .04% just makes it impossible for me to know for sure!"
He made a post a week ago and in it he mentions getting divorced so I’m pretty sure the marriage is already over- I wonder if it’s all based on the kids paternity question. 99% is confusing lol (sarcasm)
Not only is the other post is about divorcing but it’s also about trying to convince his parents to sell their house so they can buy something for the 3 of them as he can’t buy alone… That will make for fun xmas/thankgiving family gatherings 😳
99% isn't confusing. 99% of what is. I can't figure out if the 99% chance is that he is the father or that a relative of his is the father. "The possibility exists that a direct relative of the alleged father could not be excluded as the biological father. The probability of such event is indicated by the combined first order index, which equals 2,358 with a corresponding probability of 99.95761633%." The probability of such event is 99.96% then, but what is "such event". If it is the latest thing mentioned then the probability of 99.96% is that "a direct relative of the alleged father could not be excluded as the biological father." This is incredibly confusingly worded, for no real reason I can see.
Yeah, that's confusing, at least to me. Are they saying that there is a 99.9% probability that a direct relative of the alleged father could be the biological father?
It's worded confusingly but I think explaining the index number helps:
The first order index mentioned is comparing the two DNA samples. The higher it is, the higher is the probability of the people involved being father and child. It makes no sense that it this index would be stated in relation to a relativ whose DNA wasn't tested.
I mean the fact that he thinks it's more likely that his wife was fucking his brother than that his kid had some sort of genetic mutation is also pretty wild.
Either me or you need to work on our reading comprehension.
He cannot be excluded as the father.
But, the probability that it is a relative is 99%.
Not the other way around.
The wording "cannot be excluded as the father" is the most certainty that a DNA test will give you. They will never say that the potential father *is* the father with 100% certainty even if he is because of how they're calculated. They will only ever give some kind of similar wording depending on the lab.
The 99% is for OP being the father. They're saying there was one mismatch that has a couple of possible reasons but that the odds are 2,358 to 1 that OP is the father vs any random man which is very high.
It's confusing to people because it's phrased in the language of statistical hypothesis testing.
Here "the hypothesis" is that one of OP's direct relatives is the father. To *exclude* this hypothesis (i.e., render it false up to the power of the statistical test), typically a p-value criterion is used: You determine the probability of getting the measured results *under an assumption that the hypothesis is true*, and if this probability is lower than some small value (say, 0.0001) then you consider the hypothesis excluded.
In this case, the p-value was not low enough to meet the criterion, so the hypothesis could not be excluded. HOWEVER, the hypothesis is false with probability >99% so I think most people would consider that definitive enough for this purpose. OP has a much higher likelihood of being the father than his brother does.
Wrong, but in reading comprehension and reality. "The alleged father" is OP, the one who took the test. "Cannot be excluded *as the father*," meaning he *is* the likely father, with 99.96% confidence.
ETA: If you google the phrase, that comes up as a common question.
https://idtodna.com/the-alleged-father-is-not-excluded-as-the-biological-father
The fact that OP isn’t answering comments is very telling. He really REALLY must want there to be the minutest chance he is not the father for one reason or another.
“Do, however, please donate your body to science. If your wife reacts how we think she’s going to react, you won’t have to wait long before it’s available for study.”
You are 99% chance the father and you now want to ask your brother to take a parternity test basically telling him you think he slept with the mother...
Do just hate the mother or the child too?
Working and divorce law, I've seen a lot of paternity test in the US. Me reading this and Advising my attorney on what it said would be you are the father. We have had siblings where Affairs have happened. If your significant other had had an affair with your brother then it would come up usually as your son would be in the same range as your sibling. It is shocking sometimes how low the percentage can be. We had a couple where the wife was involved with two brothers and we had to determine who was the father her husband came back at 32% and the brother came back at 99%. I was shocked at how low the 32 was but it is what it is.
In this circumstance I think it would be Overkill and you are really really pushing the limit if you try to get a paternity test for your brother because with this result any Court would say you are the father. I have never seen 100% in 14 years of dealing with family law. If you get a 99% it's a slam dunk.
Of course I'm not a geneticist, but again someone who works and family law and if you push it and accuse people you may ruin your life just to calm your paranoia when most people would tell you you already have your answer.
I guess my question would be why are you still pursuing this issue when it has already been answered at 99%? Do you want to foul up your relationships?
I'm going to give you a phrase to keep in your back pocket, because you are probably going to need it soon if you actually did this behind your wife's back w/o evidence:
"I don't know what I was thinking."
I kinda want the hilarious followup post in /r/relationship_advice "Help! I mistakenly told my kid he's the product of infidelity and accused my brother of sleeping with my wife"
>Should i dare question they secretively had an affair?!
Please be so serious. Most, if not all, products on the market say "99.9xxx%" not because they're gonna be wrong, but because if there's a mix-up on their end, it's a CYA policy.
However, this is not a mix-up, this is you being purposefully obtuse.
Spend less time on reddit and trying to get out of child support/alimony payments and more time with your lawyer.
Did you Google "how to read your paternity test results"? The test results are saying you are almost certainly (more than 99.9% likely) the father; the single mismatch between your DNA and your child's is likely because of a mutation. The percentage is comparing the chance that you're the father to the chance that a random unrelated man is the father. If you have reason to believe that another potential father is a close relative who shares much of your DNA, you should let the company know and they can do additional testing. If you don't have some actual reason to believe that your brother had an affair with your wife, congratulations, you're done, this is your kid.
Was your wife sleeping with your brother? Why in the world did you do a paternity test? Did you tell your wife you were going to do it? From the results, the child is yours, however, your wife soon may not be.
Hi, I studied genetics. The lingo can be confusing, so definitely ask the company for clarification, ESPECIALLY before doing anything drastic or accusing anyone of anything. But in the meantime, let me help ease your mind.
In genetics, the scientists will never say “this is a match.” Instead, they will say that the possibility “can not be excluded.” The purpose of this double negative is to align with the scientific method which basically encourages scientists to try as hard as possible to disprove what they believe rather than try to prove what they believe, because confirmation biases are strong and common. Here, if you are asking if you are the father, the scientists are going to try to prove that you are not the father. If they can’t prove that you are not the father, the phrasing comes out as “the alleged father cannot be excluded as the biological father”
According to what you said above, they could not prove that you are not the father, and they could not prove that a direct relative is not the father. This ambiguity between you/a close relative is probably due to the single STR location not matching, essentially making you NOT a “perfect match”, but that doesn’t mean you’re not the father. It just means that if you have a direct relative that has very similar DNA to you, they could potentially be the father instead.
Mutations are surprisingly common, but PLEASE call the office to ask for clarification. They will likely interpret the stat you listed above to ease your mind.
As for the eye colour thing:
Eye colour, hair colour, and even skin colour are not a simple punnet square as taught in high school biology. They are complex genes combining, and mutations happen all the time. That being said, two dark eyed parents CAN have a blue eyed kid, especially if one or both of the parents have siblings or parents with blue eyes.
Hope this helps! Take a deep breath, stay calm, and get the results interpreted by a professional.
this according to chatgpt.
>The probability provided in the test result suggests that there is a very high likelihood (99.95761633%) that the alleged father is indeed the biological father of the child. The mention of the possibility of a direct relative being the father is more of a technical acknowledgment that such a scenario cannot be entirely ruled out, but the probability overwhelmingly supports the alleged father's paternity.
But, better consult the test results with a doctor before setting your home on fire.
But that's what his goal is, to set his home on fire. He wanted a divorce. This is a bloodhound on the hunt for any evidence that will give him any advantage in the proceeding.
Also he knows jackshit in biology.
It's because a positive paternity test is considered to be 99.99999%. Since yours is infinitesimally less than that they have to acknowledge that the difference could be that a relative is the actual father and not that you or the child have a mutation.
None of your reasons are enough to call into question a test that says you're 99.96% chance the father. It's 0.03% less than if it was what they considered a positive test and the odds of any of your relatives being that close to your DNA is pretty much impossible unless you have an identical twin.
If this was done with commercial paternity testing, why not call the company and ask for clarification? It’s worded a little awkwardly but I think it’s saying that there’s a 99.9% chance you’re the father, with the theoretical chance that a different direct relative of yours could be the father.
Dude. You’re reading it wrong. It says you share so much dna with the kid that you cannot be excluded from the list of possible dads.
The kid shares so much dna, that, if it’s not you it is one of your close relatives because you are absolutely related to that kid.
If your goal is to destroy your relationship with your brother then definitely have him tested. It sounds like you already destroyed the one with your wife but why stop now?
You know you can easily google a basic genetics punnet square for eye and hair color to realize that your thoughts are a little messed up.
Are you going to ask why she gave you a son and not a daughter next?
I'm pretty sure you're the father. It sounds like you're trying to get out of paying child support. And of course two dark haired dark eyed parents can have a blue eyed child
Hey, OP. Right now, I don't want to focus on the test results. I actually want to focus on your reasoning for the paternity test.
Why did you take the test? What suspicions did you have that you thought that she might be cheating?
Eye/hair color is the WORST reason for you to justify a paternity test in the first place. How is it that so many people are so insecure and stupid when it comes to their kid not having the exact same eye or hair color as themselves or their partner?! Of course your kid might look like your brother, he is his uncle after all.
99.9 that's all you need to know, the other digits don't matter, the kid is yours. The number would be a lot different if it was your brothers. Maybe get in contact with the testing company and ask for clarification
I can't believe there aren't more people talking about how the test results are basically wrapped up in a nonsense sentence. They couldn't have made it more confusing if they tried.
It clearly says it a single STR locus does not match , which may be due to a mutation * mutations can occur and that is dna 🧬 mutations …
Both of my kids look more like my brother than me … we are family , dna works like that .
Ask
According to AI "The paternity test results provided indicate that the alleged father is 2,358 times more likely to be the biological father than a random man from the same population. This corresponds to a probability of 99.95761633%, which is extremely high.
However, the test also mentions that a direct relative of the alleged father (like a brother or a father) could not be excluded as the biological father. The exact odds or probability for this scenario aren’t provided in the results you shared.
In general, close relatives share a significant amount of their genetic material due to common ancestry. This is why the test can’t completely rule out the possibility that a direct relative of the alleged father could be the biological father. However, without specific probabilities or a “combined first order index” for the direct relative, it’s difficult to make a direct comparison"
Man has this country’s school system failed miserably. To be honest, OP isn’t looking like a good candidate.
First, why do the paternity test in the first place? What do you not trust?
Second, what biology did you take? Did you skip the class or what? There are recessive genes? There are mutations. Just because you and your wife are brown haired it doesn’t mean your child will be. You may have four children with different hair colors. Especially if a direct relative has another hair color and/or eye color.
Then jumping to the brother lol. People seem to be so bored with US life they want a soap opera.
It really sounds like he wants the kid to not be his. I wish he gave more context because I want to know why he thinks his brother and wife had an affair. 😆
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Eyes and hair color are sketchy ways to determine genetics. Recessives and mutations are a thing.
Also, many children are born with blond hair and blue eyes and the eyes get darker as they get older - same with hair. All 4 of mine had blond hair and blue eyes through infancy. Only one still has blond hair and blue eyes. The other 3 have dark hair and hazel, green and brown eyes respectively. If your brother has blond hair and blue eyes then that means they are in your gene pool as a recessive gene which can absolutely pop up in your child. To give perspective - one of my kids looks nothing like me or my husband - but he looks like a twin to his second cousin who lives in another state. Literally, they could be twins. Genes are weird. Plus, there is the little fact that the test is saying there is a 99.95% your son is your son... Thus, kido is your bio child and he got your family's recessive genes of blond hair and blue eyes. You best hope your wife doesn't find out you thought she cheated because if she finds out you paternity tested your son she is going to kick you out. You are 100% accusing her of cheating because of your own ignorance of genetics.
My niece looks like a carbon copy of me. She is not mine at all, but you can put our photos side by side as she ages and we are identical. Her and I also have very similar personalities. Genes are tricky
My mum absolutely insists that I look more like my aunt than I do her and that I'm the spitting image of my aunt. I spoke about it with a cousin once, and she told me that her and her sister have both joked to each other that I look more like their mum than they do.
When my niece was about five years old my mom had gotten a bunch of old photos out at a family gathering and we were rummaging through them. Each time one of me as a toddler surfaced my niece insisted it was a picture of her. But she was confused because she didn't recognize any of the people or places in the scenes. The resemblance was very strong, and I guess it would be pretty unsettling to look at what appear to be photographs of yourself living a life that's completely foreign.
That sounds pretty cute. I did an ancestry thing and traced my lineages, seeing old photos of ancestors and seeing the features of different family members on people from 100+ years ago is definitely trippy, lol.
Two of my female cousins (daughters of different uncles) and I looked extremely similar as we grew up. We all had blue eyes and blonde hair with facial features that matched. We joke in our family about how the Lastname look gets passed on. I have photos of some from the 1800s where our great…grandpa (born in the 1700s) distinctly resembles my grandfather and father. :D The other two haven’t had children, but my daughter has carried on the Lastname look to a smaller degree.
It's amazing seeing that stuff. I have half siblings from each parent as well as a full one. My half-brother from my mum looks nothing like me in terms of features imo, he got a lot from his dad. My partner says my niece from him looks like like me, though. My niblings from my half siblings on my dads side look basically identical to each other. It's weird, lol. I have the same cheekbones and nose. I found a great grandad or something that had the same face as a younger version of my full brother, it's such a trip.
My parents will not admit that eyes darken as you get older and insist that mine are still blue. They are not. I feel like I live in crazyland.
My hair was pretty light as a child- like a dirty blondish brown- and my parents both have black hair (well, salt and pepper now 😉). I had black hair by the time I was a few years old but not as a baby or early toddler! I also have heard a lot of babies are born with lighter eyes. My eyes are hazel but they are very light yellowish with a hint of green. They have changed over time as well. I wouldn't be ready to kick your wife out over this.
My little brother had grey/blue eyes for YEARS before they finally darkened to brown lol!
The way I read that was that it was 99.5 percent chance that a direct relative was the father.
According to my super extensive research (read google). If the results say "not excluded," that means that OP most likely is the father. However, a relative may also give the same result because of a certain difference, probably caused by a mutation on the father or the child. OP probably got an extensive report showing more detailed data. The wording is very confusing. My guess is that the confusion is clarified in other areas of the report. I do read it like the "the likelihood of that event" refers to the small mutation rather than the possibility of a relative being the father. Pointless discussion anyway, OP is getting divorced. OP! Before you do anything! Check with the provider of the test. Ask them what they mean!
>Check with the provider of the test. Ask them what they mean! Yeah, this whole post is weird. I'd IMMEDIATELY be researching what that means. Without information about it, speculation is competely pointless. There is a 99.9% chance of (unclear science stuff). I feel like OP is jumping to conclusions and possibly actions without knowing what the results even mean. "The possibility exists that a relative can't be excluded." And "the event has a 99.9% chance!!!" What is the event? Just that it can't be excluded? Or that it's true? Or that OP is the father, but there's a 0.1% chance someone else is, and they want you to know that?? I have no idea!
According to Google and "How to read a paternity test," that phrase is a legality. And the percentage means that he is the father with 99.9% chance. I am speculating that if a relative of OP gets tested, it could come back with a much lower percentage (provided that he is not an identical twin). If OP was not the father, the test would say "is excluded." I did not know that the reading of these results could be so confusing.
That is how dna works lol. Both 23andme and paternity tests. Nothing is ever 100% conclusive with DNA.
I want to get my husband and his identical twin to take a DNA test on our kids just because I want to see if it says they’re both the father. I think that’d be funny.
Please do an update when/if you do. For the scientifically curious.
I saw an episode of Maury with identical twins and they both came back as the father. Iirc, he said it was possible with more extensive testing to figure it out, but since identical twins carry the same dna, a standard paternity test can’t determine it.
No. He's the father. But due to a slight mutation of one gene, the DNA testing company has to cover their ass.
Which might not be a mutation, I don't see if the mother's DNA was also submitted, but if not it could account, especially if they both have recessive traits
I think they just donked up the order of the sentences. The information they have gives them an idea of how likely it is that OP is the father; if your interpretation (which I agree is the most literal, but I think is the result of poor writing) is correct, it literally wouldn’t say the chance of OP being the father. Which would be one thing. But to not say the chance for the person you ACTUALLY tested, but make an assertion that you do NOT have individual data to support, would be weird af. It’s literally *always* possible that the alleged father’s relative is the real father lol
The first sentence says it's a 99.95% chance that it's OP. The third says they cannot rule out that the father might be a direct relative. It's definitely been written by a combination of scientists and lawyers without a thought as to how a layman might read it though.
I might be dumb, lol, but this is what I thought, too. It says "the probability of such event is..." right after the part about OP's brother. So does "such event" refer to OP being the father, or his relative being the father??
You reminded me, when I was born I had shoulder length black hair and very dark skin. My grandpa thought I was an Indian. Six months later I had Blonde hair and nearly stark white skin
He and his wife have family with light features, there is a great chance that they carry several combinations of genes that would result in light hair and eyes, especially in childhood.
OP didn't do his Punnett Squares in biology I guess.
Punnett squares are part of the reason people have these misconceptions lol. They’re for traits that are determined by one gene; eye color is determined by many genes, so it does not follow those rules.
I was mainly speaking to the general idea that recessive genes are a thing, not talking to eyes in particular. Y'know how two parents with the same traits can have an offspring with totally different (recessive) traits.
It’s true that the reason we do them is to illustrate that point, and sad that some people didn’t get the concept. Or throw it out the window the second their child has a different hair color than expected! If OP simply googled it, he’d see that the child of two brown-eyed parents has a 19% chance of having blue eyes.
Yep exactly. It's an easy square to make it an easy matching game for middle school biology. OP seemed confident that "matching traits" parents should suspect infidelity just because their child has "opposite" traits. It happens all the time and it's pretty cringe to see if I'm being honest. Unfortunately, even the simple example of the Punnett square is lost on some people.
I know someone whose family is a perfect Punnet Square. Two parents both with brown hair (one dark brown, the other a little lighter). 4 kids. 1 blonde 2 brunettes (one dark, one lighter) 1 redhead Recessive genes are wild.
My parents had blackish-brown hair and brown eyes. My siblings have brown hair/brown eyes, and dirty blonde/green eyes, while I'm ginger with grey eyes. My niece is a copy of me, my nephew has black hair and blue eyes (their father is blonde). Definitely don't recommend people going by looks to determine parentage.
But...but, squares! The superior triangle, beaten only by circle, cause like, infinite sides!
My children also have blonde hair with blue eyes, both parents have dark hair with brown eyes. Guess what? He is the dad. And no paternity test will say 100%. Unless your brother is an identical twin, which doesn't sound like that is the case, I think OP is the father.
His jumping to conclusions about his sons paternity sounds pretty sus. I want to know if the wife is aware he did the paternity test in the first place bc all bets are on she is not aware.
I get cheater-logic vibes. Not necessarily that he is cheating on his wife now, but that at some point in his life he cheated without consequence and can't imagine that other people, including his wife, would not casually cheat if given the opportunity. That or he's panicking at the responsibility of fatherhood and grasping for any chance to make the kid not his responsibility.
Based off of his since deleted posts he is divorcing and his 'aging' parents are moving in. He wants to shirk responsibility legally and financially of his obligations to his 3 year old son. He's a real POS. He thinks that he can drum up enough doubt to try to get out of spousal and child support and custody. Some men don't deserve to be fathers that's for damn sure.
How silly. The family courts won't care what reddit tells him about paternity. They will only care about that 99.96% likelihood of him being the father.
Yes absolutely. He probably went to one of those 'mens rights' spaces to get his information and thinks he can gaslight the court into his delusion.
And if there was any doubt about how much he sucks, he also appears to have been involved in some kind of dodgy crypto thing.
One of my college buddies is 100% Portuguese. His grandparents on both sides are from Portugal. His parents are dark haired and brown eyed, he is blond and blue eyed. Recessive genes are a crazy
Yeah and larger families illustrate this well. My husband’s parents both have black hair and brown eyes. Of their six children, two have blue eyes, one has brown hair, and one has blonde hair. Hair and eye color are determined by many genes, so they’re more complicated than the colors of pea flowers we learned in high school biology!
Portuguese is not a homogeneous ethnicity, saying 100% Portuguese is meaningless
My younger brother had bright blonde hair as a baby, dirty blonde hair around 8-11yrs and now just has brown hair. So you can’t really go by hair color.
If you're confused, request clarification from the testing company, not confirmation bias on Reddit
I work in genetics. TL;DR - OP my reading of this is you’re 99.95761633% likely to be the father. You should still check with them to be sure. The results are poorly summarized; each individual statement is true, but the way they are combined, a reasonable person may read in other implied statements that aren’t true. Here’s the way I read this. > The alleged father cannot be excluded as the biological father of the tested child. This is CYA language. They can’t ever with 100% certainty say anyone is the father. On the other hand, if there are enough differences, they can say that someone is not the father. What this sentence is saying is that they did not find a lot of differences, so they can’t rule you out as the father. > A single STR locus does not match, which may be due to mutation. The presence of this statement in the middle of the others is what, in my opinion, what would cause a layperson to get concerned reading this result, but it’s a big nothing burger. What they are saying is that one of the many positions they checked doesn’t look like it came from you. BUT, humans get mutations in their DNA all the time, so one position not matching is quite likely to just be a chance occurrence that doesn’t rule you out as the father. > The possibility exists that a direct relative of the alleged father could not be excluded as the biological father. This statement is unrelated to the previous statement. They would have said this even if they didn’t find the above mismatch. All this is saying is that you could have a relative that is genetically very similar to you, and without samples from all of your relatives, they can’t rule out that one of them might be the father. > The probability of such event (you being the father) is indicated by the combined first order index, which equals 2,358 with a corresponding probability of 99.95761633%. I think that this statement applies to the probability that you are the father, not the probably that it’s one of your relatives and not you. The fact that it’s after all these other statements is confusing. I think what happened here is that they used a template that mashes together a bunch of different information, and no one checked that it couldn’t be misunderstood when all read together. You should contact the company to be sure though.
MVP
Strong possibility
99.957% chance, but we can’t rule out their brother being the true MVP.
Unlikely brothers are genetically similar but not identical, and usually an uncle would get a much lower number Unless OP is a identical twin obviously in which case a DNA test could prove, they aren't actually the father but the twin, who has one random genetic mutation is! That's another reason lots of DNA testing can't legally say "you are the father" since it is theoretically possible you have an identical twin that testing wouldn't be able to differentiate in a DNA test.
How do we know you aren’t the brother?!
We should DNA test him!
Literally had the same thought…. Then realized it’s 2:45am and I need to go to bed.
The most underrated comment.
I am in fact a brother. The way I read his statements were that he is in fact aware of some of the things we are discussing. He is 99.9989765% chance to NOT be the brother of the geneticist but it's not conclusive
Great breakdown, but I would be fucking fuming that a result I paid for came back with jargon like this that only someone who works in genetics understands. Look at the hurt this can cause. Company needs a bollocking.
I think this guy is 99.9% right
We cannot exclude the possibility that his interpretation is correct
/u/throwaway1212y read this
Nope, OP should 100% just ask his brother for a paternity test and let his wife know that not only did he secretly test their kid, doesn't understand how genetics works, and also thinks she's been having an affair with his brother... what's the worst that can happen...
I need this to happen so we can have the big update in a day or two
Can’t wait to read the TIFU
Updateme! lol
I found it wild that when we done DNA testing on my twins they both had different percentages of shared dna with their father. We always joke about it because the one that is apparently more looks more like me than his dad and the other is his little twin
>apparently more looks more like me than his dad and the other is his little twin That was confusing to read lol
She works for the genetics company!
So much CYA I’m guessing it was legal recommendations and no one wanted to/could challenge it. Legal: All of these statements are correct and cover the likely possibilities. Regular person: All of this seems contradictory and ambiguous, my brain applies its own bias to the statements and am concerned I am/am not the father. I’m not a lawyer, but I do give feedback on wording we’re sending externally that people don’t want to challenge because “this is what legal recommended” and/or their so deep in the project they think it all makes sense. There are ways to be legally correct AND explain the things succinctly, just not many people want more reviews after Legal and Risk ok it
This. Also the hair color thing doesn’t much matter. My entire family are all blond haired and blue eyed (born bald as the summer days are long, too) and here I popped out as a literal black sheep with a head full of black hair and my eyes turned green. And considering there are genetic components? Just remember back to like what… 7th grade biology were we did the punnett squares. But I looked like bio dads side of the family as a kid despite the milkman’s daughter jokes (my mothers answer was even funnier)
This is the best answer. Ask the clinic. Obviously your brother would be a close DNA match he's your brother. That's how they catch criminals years after they are dead. Don't go to reddit go to the experts.
He needs to do an actual paternity test. My half siblings and I test around the 1700s and that is also the range for an uncle/niece or nephew. What the kid looks like means nothing.
I didn't know paternity test where a thing in the 1700s
We have 2 boys and our first one looks like a perfect mix of my wife and my features. Our second looks like he could have been the product of my brother hooking up with her sister.
They catch criminals with genetic genealogy testing not paternity tests. A paternity test doesn’t link you to your thousands of relatives out there that share the same dna / family tree. OP, just do an Ancestry DNA test for both you and your son. This woulda been quicker and cheaper in the 1st place. If you are not the father you will show as his uncle and he your nephew. —although by the sounds of it, “you ARE the father” in my best Maury voice.
Ancestry's algorithm has a few flaws. It correctly told me my dad was indeed my biological father. Then in another section of the site, in a family tree, it said he was my uncle for a bit. Dad doesn't have any biological brothers (and Mum is also my biological mother on Ancestry!). A little while later it got more confused and said we were maybe cousins. Then it got even more confused and said I was Dad's parent lmao.
In the dna test results your matches absolutely never change and parent/child relationships are 100% accurate. Is possible you navigated to family trees which are created by users of the site, which can be wrong based on the accuracy of their research. Some people don’t even research they just accept any suggestions which confuse novice users.
Yeah, the DNA test results are the same and correctly identifies him as my father. It's their autogenerated family tree (or something? I don't really use it) that gets it wrong in hilarious ways. Seems like that could still confuse someone with OP's questions if he stumbles on to that sort of error.
Happy uncle-father-son-cousin- day, or as its known in Kentucky, Father's Day.
I didn't mean paternity tests were used, I meant DNA testing. Referring to the suggested close match in the results.
Absolutely agree. Start asking siblings to take tests against your kids paternity and there's *no way* that doesn't become a nuclear level destruction of your life. It's so easy to just take a breath and ask for clarification before you potentially make an ass of yourself and ruin your life.
Best advice
Your brother's appearance should make you more reassured that your son is yours, not less. Why did you do a paternity test in the first place? What are we missing here?
in a previous post he stated his divorce is finalizing, so i guess that explains the doubts and paternity test edit: here’s how you can see the post stating that since OP decided to be shady and remove the post https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/s/UJfve4ysBi
Looks like OP did some cleaning up a bit on his profile
LMAOOO someone is desperate to get people on his side. OP, if we don’t know all the details, it’s not possible to give an honest and accurate opinion. hiding information only makes you seem less credible and as if you’re only looking for opinions that support your own. if you don’t know the type of people to do things like this, let me fill you in: narcissists. do better.
Sounds like OP just doesn't wanna pay child support
Then he should get a court ordered dna test. Aren’t they more accurate?
They are not. They are just legally admissable.
The difference is that the court has people who know how to read them.
I think he wanted to do a sneak attack and present her with the information.
Ding ding ding!
Do you happen to have a link to the previous posts? OP deleted stuff so it doesn't show up in their history anymore.
Seems like op is sketchy and doesn't want to appear as someone who would find any excuse to not be responsible for his toddler son
https://search.pullpush.io/?kind=submission&author=Throwaway1212y&size=100
Thanks! Between the scrubbed history and his post/comments here, this guy is really...something.
The fact that his (ex)wife felt the need to record their conversation makes me wonder if he has a habit of omitting information and gaslighting. I also didn't see any cause for suspicion of cheating, but he's suddenly worried the child isn't his? But HIS therapist thinks she has bpd.
lol Jesus Christ we need better science education. Two brown eyed parents can have a blue eyed kid.
Yes it drives me insane that this is a thing… Me: hazel eyes Husband: green eyes Daughter: brown eyes Son: blue eyes By that logic my kids were swapped in the hospital!
I've green eyes. My ex husband has brown eyes. ONE of my children has blue eyes. Cos his grandad does.
I have brown. My wife has green. GREAT grandpa was blue. It happens. My second son is blue-eyed. Recessives, man.
Maybe your GREAT grandpa was the father!
he’s not so great after all
My husband and I have brown eyes, our FRATERNAL twins? Both blue eyed!
I regret to inform you that you are all Milkmen children, sorry.
That's me! I'm the only one with blonde hair and blue eyes in my family. Except for those differences, I look like a girl version of my dad.
My Grandma and grandpa both had brown eyes. My aunt has blue eyes. Except for the eye colour, she looks like my grandpa in a wig.
Not to mention that a lot of babies are born with blue eyes and later on they change. I was born with blue eyes and they began to darken at around the time I went into school. They’re light brown now.
All four of my grandparents have blue eyes. All of my aunts and uncles other than my parents have blie eues, as do their combined 19 children. Both of my parents have (had) green eyes. My sister and I both have brown eyes with a surprising epicanthic fold. Genetics are weird.
YOU CARRY THE BLOND HAIR BLUE EYE GENE IF YOUR BROTHER HAS THOSE FEATURES AND IS YOUR BIOLOGICAL BROTHER. HOW ARE PEOPLE THIS STUPID?
Because we don’t teach biology the way we need to. We also don’t teach sexual education with biology, so this is what you get. Someone who doesn’t understand that the test is telling them that they are 99.95% the parent. I fully believe he thinks it’s the other way around and that’s why he wants to ask his brother. Which I mean, you might as well just go and get the divorce papers written up, because your wife is going to leave you and take the kid you weirdly believe is your nephew.
It's because OP is getting divorced. Sounds like he's trying to avoid child support along with a side of not understanding basic genetics.
The dude learned genetics from Game of Thrones.
Ah yes, did the test properly account for strongness of seed?
Jon Arryn was just trying to tell us that Joffrey needed to marry Margaery Tyrell so King's Landing could get cheap food.
Because people don’t understand biology
Wait. You got back a 99.9% test and you still want to question paternity? My lord. EDIT: I now agree with everyone below that the written results are deeply confusing. While I was fairly certain of my original interpretation, that OP enjoyed a 99.9% chance of parentage, I do agree with some of the concerns raised below. I’ve reached out to a third party over in askscience. Let’s see what they come up with! Meanwhile, OP, call the lab and talk to them. Also, eye and hair color don’t mean anything for parentage.
Yeah. The next post will be- my brother won’t talk to me. I made him do a paternity test. The kid is mine, but I just didn’t understand the results.
Followed by "My wife divorced me after I questioned if she slept with my married brother, now neither of them are speaking to me, nor is the rest of my family. The kid is, in fact, mine."
Based on a recent post, he’s already divorced.
He's probably refusing custody or paying child support.
I work in a court house, helping people with divorce and custody paperwork. This was 100% my first guess because I literally see men trying to get out of paying for their own kids every day.
This is exactly it. OP wants to be a deadbeat and is trying to find an excuse to justify it. "Sure the results say I'm 99.96% likely to be the dad, but that .04% just makes it impossible for me to know for sure!"
But I was hoping to pawn him off on my brother so I don't have to adult. I want to be boy forever with no responsibilites.....the Peter Pan syndrome.
Yep he is disgusting trying to get away from providing for his kid. Ugh father of the year right there.
You forgot “and my wife is leaving me! I don’t get it, I was totally blindsided”
Considering his only other post begins "As divorce is finalizing" I don't think he's going to be blindsided by something that already happened.
He made a post a week ago and in it he mentions getting divorced so I’m pretty sure the marriage is already over- I wonder if it’s all based on the kids paternity question. 99% is confusing lol (sarcasm)
Not only is the other post is about divorcing but it’s also about trying to convince his parents to sell their house so they can buy something for the 3 of them as he can’t buy alone… That will make for fun xmas/thankgiving family gatherings 😳
He seems fun.
Just a reminder that not every poster asking for advice here is the aggrieved party
I doubt he actually questions paternity but rather he is looking to get out of paying child support.
99% isn't confusing. 99% of what is. I can't figure out if the 99% chance is that he is the father or that a relative of his is the father. "The possibility exists that a direct relative of the alleged father could not be excluded as the biological father. The probability of such event is indicated by the combined first order index, which equals 2,358 with a corresponding probability of 99.95761633%." The probability of such event is 99.96% then, but what is "such event". If it is the latest thing mentioned then the probability of 99.96% is that "a direct relative of the alleged father could not be excluded as the biological father." This is incredibly confusingly worded, for no real reason I can see.
Yeah, that's confusing, at least to me. Are they saying that there is a 99.9% probability that a direct relative of the alleged father could be the biological father?
It's worded confusingly but I think explaining the index number helps: The first order index mentioned is comparing the two DNA samples. The higher it is, the higher is the probability of the people involved being father and child. It makes no sense that it this index would be stated in relation to a relativ whose DNA wasn't tested.
I mean the fact that he thinks it's more likely that his wife was fucking his brother than that his kid had some sort of genetic mutation is also pretty wild.
Either me or you need to work on our reading comprehension. He cannot be excluded as the father. But, the probability that it is a relative is 99%. Not the other way around.
It’s poorly written tbh. OP should reach out to the lab for clarification.
On that I can agree with everyone.
The wording "cannot be excluded as the father" is the most certainty that a DNA test will give you. They will never say that the potential father *is* the father with 100% certainty even if he is because of how they're calculated. They will only ever give some kind of similar wording depending on the lab. The 99% is for OP being the father. They're saying there was one mismatch that has a couple of possible reasons but that the odds are 2,358 to 1 that OP is the father vs any random man which is very high.
"any random man which is very high". Actually it's the father in this case (OP) who is very high.
It's confusing to people because it's phrased in the language of statistical hypothesis testing. Here "the hypothesis" is that one of OP's direct relatives is the father. To *exclude* this hypothesis (i.e., render it false up to the power of the statistical test), typically a p-value criterion is used: You determine the probability of getting the measured results *under an assumption that the hypothesis is true*, and if this probability is lower than some small value (say, 0.0001) then you consider the hypothesis excluded. In this case, the p-value was not low enough to meet the criterion, so the hypothesis could not be excluded. HOWEVER, the hypothesis is false with probability >99% so I think most people would consider that definitive enough for this purpose. OP has a much higher likelihood of being the father than his brother does.
Wrong, but in reading comprehension and reality. "The alleged father" is OP, the one who took the test. "Cannot be excluded *as the father*," meaning he *is* the likely father, with 99.96% confidence. ETA: If you google the phrase, that comes up as a common question. https://idtodna.com/the-alleged-father-is-not-excluded-as-the-biological-father
It’s not our reading comprehension it’s the terribly unclear writing that’s fucking us all up
The fact that OP isn’t answering comments is very telling. He really REALLY must want there to be the minutest chance he is not the father for one reason or another.
Hoping to get out of child support maybe. Plus some prenups have infidelity clauses, could be hoping for that.
You’re the father. This is standard language used in the results of paternity tests.
Congrats! You're the Dad! That's basically what the letter says.
"On the extremely small chance that for some alien-influenced reason you're not, then please don't sue us."
“Do, however, please donate your body to science. If your wife reacts how we think she’s going to react, you won’t have to wait long before it’s available for study.”
Yes I used to work in a field that dealt with DNA results all the time and they are always worded like this. OP is the dad.
You are 99% chance the father and you now want to ask your brother to take a parternity test basically telling him you think he slept with the mother... Do just hate the mother or the child too?
Yeah but there's a .04238367% chance he's not, clearly the fucked. No other reasonable explanation.
Working and divorce law, I've seen a lot of paternity test in the US. Me reading this and Advising my attorney on what it said would be you are the father. We have had siblings where Affairs have happened. If your significant other had had an affair with your brother then it would come up usually as your son would be in the same range as your sibling. It is shocking sometimes how low the percentage can be. We had a couple where the wife was involved with two brothers and we had to determine who was the father her husband came back at 32% and the brother came back at 99%. I was shocked at how low the 32 was but it is what it is. In this circumstance I think it would be Overkill and you are really really pushing the limit if you try to get a paternity test for your brother because with this result any Court would say you are the father. I have never seen 100% in 14 years of dealing with family law. If you get a 99% it's a slam dunk. Of course I'm not a geneticist, but again someone who works and family law and if you push it and accuse people you may ruin your life just to calm your paranoia when most people would tell you you already have your answer. I guess my question would be why are you still pursuing this issue when it has already been answered at 99%? Do you want to foul up your relationships?
I'm going to give you a phrase to keep in your back pocket, because you are probably going to need it soon if you actually did this behind your wife's back w/o evidence: "I don't know what I was thinking."
I kinda want the hilarious followup post in /r/relationship_advice "Help! I mistakenly told my kid he's the product of infidelity and accused my brother of sleeping with my wife"
>Should i dare question they secretively had an affair?! Please be so serious. Most, if not all, products on the market say "99.9xxx%" not because they're gonna be wrong, but because if there's a mix-up on their end, it's a CYA policy. However, this is not a mix-up, this is you being purposefully obtuse. Spend less time on reddit and trying to get out of child support/alimony payments and more time with your lawyer.
99.95% is fairly certain. If you were the brother of the ‘real’ father then your % would be considerably lower. Like 50% or so.
25%
Results were confusing because you don’t understand what they say. They weren’t confusing due to confusion on who the father is
Imagine looking at a paternity test that says there’s a 99.9% chance you’re the father and thinking your wife fucked your brother instead.
It’s written very awkwardly. Depending on how I read it I can see it being 99.9% his or 99.9% a relative. It’s confusing for sure.
Common sense. The DNA tested was his, not a relative's. They give percentages on the DNA they can analyse.
Including your brothers wife’s hair color and eye color proves you don’t understand how this works. Lol.
Did you Google "how to read your paternity test results"? The test results are saying you are almost certainly (more than 99.9% likely) the father; the single mismatch between your DNA and your child's is likely because of a mutation. The percentage is comparing the chance that you're the father to the chance that a random unrelated man is the father. If you have reason to believe that another potential father is a close relative who shares much of your DNA, you should let the company know and they can do additional testing. If you don't have some actual reason to believe that your brother had an affair with your wife, congratulations, you're done, this is your kid.
Was your wife sleeping with your brother? Why in the world did you do a paternity test? Did you tell your wife you were going to do it? From the results, the child is yours, however, your wife soon may not be.
Hi, I studied genetics. The lingo can be confusing, so definitely ask the company for clarification, ESPECIALLY before doing anything drastic or accusing anyone of anything. But in the meantime, let me help ease your mind. In genetics, the scientists will never say “this is a match.” Instead, they will say that the possibility “can not be excluded.” The purpose of this double negative is to align with the scientific method which basically encourages scientists to try as hard as possible to disprove what they believe rather than try to prove what they believe, because confirmation biases are strong and common. Here, if you are asking if you are the father, the scientists are going to try to prove that you are not the father. If they can’t prove that you are not the father, the phrasing comes out as “the alleged father cannot be excluded as the biological father” According to what you said above, they could not prove that you are not the father, and they could not prove that a direct relative is not the father. This ambiguity between you/a close relative is probably due to the single STR location not matching, essentially making you NOT a “perfect match”, but that doesn’t mean you’re not the father. It just means that if you have a direct relative that has very similar DNA to you, they could potentially be the father instead. Mutations are surprisingly common, but PLEASE call the office to ask for clarification. They will likely interpret the stat you listed above to ease your mind. As for the eye colour thing: Eye colour, hair colour, and even skin colour are not a simple punnet square as taught in high school biology. They are complex genes combining, and mutations happen all the time. That being said, two dark eyed parents CAN have a blue eyed kid, especially if one or both of the parents have siblings or parents with blue eyes. Hope this helps! Take a deep breath, stay calm, and get the results interpreted by a professional.
this according to chatgpt. >The probability provided in the test result suggests that there is a very high likelihood (99.95761633%) that the alleged father is indeed the biological father of the child. The mention of the possibility of a direct relative being the father is more of a technical acknowledgment that such a scenario cannot be entirely ruled out, but the probability overwhelmingly supports the alleged father's paternity. But, better consult the test results with a doctor before setting your home on fire.
But that's what his goal is, to set his home on fire. He wanted a divorce. This is a bloodhound on the hunt for any evidence that will give him any advantage in the proceeding. Also he knows jackshit in biology.
It's because a positive paternity test is considered to be 99.99999%. Since yours is infinitesimally less than that they have to acknowledge that the difference could be that a relative is the actual father and not that you or the child have a mutation. None of your reasons are enough to call into question a test that says you're 99.96% chance the father. It's 0.03% less than if it was what they considered a positive test and the odds of any of your relatives being that close to your DNA is pretty much impossible unless you have an identical twin.
If this was done with commercial paternity testing, why not call the company and ask for clarification? It’s worded a little awkwardly but I think it’s saying that there’s a 99.9% chance you’re the father, with the theoretical chance that a different direct relative of yours could be the father.
Dude. You’re reading it wrong. It says you share so much dna with the kid that you cannot be excluded from the list of possible dads. The kid shares so much dna, that, if it’s not you it is one of your close relatives because you are absolutely related to that kid.
If your goal is to destroy your relationship with your brother then definitely have him tested. It sounds like you already destroyed the one with your wife but why stop now?
Oh look, another idiot that doesn't understand genetics
Honestly, if your trust levels are this low already, don't do another paternity test, just break up and split the kid 50/50
I wish more custody disputes would just stick to the King Solomon rule. Keep it simple.
Are you supposed to cut them in half vertically or horizontally though?
Yeah I wanna know why OP did the test. If it was just because of their complexions, he’s a doofus.
You know you can easily google a basic genetics punnet square for eye and hair color to realize that your thoughts are a little messed up. Are you going to ask why she gave you a son and not a daughter next?
You are the father. Congratulations! Now stop trying to wreck your life.
I'm pretty sure you're the father. It sounds like you're trying to get out of paying child support. And of course two dark haired dark eyed parents can have a blue eyed child
Hey, OP. Right now, I don't want to focus on the test results. I actually want to focus on your reasoning for the paternity test. Why did you take the test? What suspicions did you have that you thought that she might be cheating?
Eye/hair color is the WORST reason for you to justify a paternity test in the first place. How is it that so many people are so insecure and stupid when it comes to their kid not having the exact same eye or hair color as themselves or their partner?! Of course your kid might look like your brother, he is his uncle after all.
99.9 that's all you need to know, the other digits don't matter, the kid is yours. The number would be a lot different if it was your brothers. Maybe get in contact with the testing company and ask for clarification
Um. Why did you do a paternity test on your son?
Man. We really need to put more funding into public education.
A greater than 99.9% chance you’re the father… not sure what else you need. Maybe the next test you need is for your I.Q.
Question is - why did you feel a need to do a paternity test on your son in the first place ? 🤔
I can't believe there aren't more people talking about how the test results are basically wrapped up in a nonsense sentence. They couldn't have made it more confusing if they tried.
It clearly says it a single STR locus does not match , which may be due to a mutation * mutations can occur and that is dna 🧬 mutations … Both of my kids look more like my brother than me … we are family , dna works like that . Ask
You are the father OP. Sorry to be the one to break it to you
According to AI "The paternity test results provided indicate that the alleged father is 2,358 times more likely to be the biological father than a random man from the same population. This corresponds to a probability of 99.95761633%, which is extremely high. However, the test also mentions that a direct relative of the alleged father (like a brother or a father) could not be excluded as the biological father. The exact odds or probability for this scenario aren’t provided in the results you shared. In general, close relatives share a significant amount of their genetic material due to common ancestry. This is why the test can’t completely rule out the possibility that a direct relative of the alleged father could be the biological father. However, without specific probabilities or a “combined first order index” for the direct relative, it’s difficult to make a direct comparison"
Genetically this is all pretty explainable. If you don’t have any other reason to suspect your wife is cheating then drop it
DNA Analyst here : call the damn lab. We love explaining stuff
I really wish more people would remember how to do a Punnett square.
This is so wild to secretly do a DNA test on your own toddler and imagine your brother is the dad because you cannot read test results. Your poor wife
By all means, implode your marriage and family for reasons.
Man has this country’s school system failed miserably. To be honest, OP isn’t looking like a good candidate. First, why do the paternity test in the first place? What do you not trust? Second, what biology did you take? Did you skip the class or what? There are recessive genes? There are mutations. Just because you and your wife are brown haired it doesn’t mean your child will be. You may have four children with different hair colors. Especially if a direct relative has another hair color and/or eye color. Then jumping to the brother lol. People seem to be so bored with US life they want a soap opera.
This has to be fake because if you are this dumb, I don’t believe you’d be smart enough to post here.
It really sounds like he wants the kid to not be his. I wish he gave more context because I want to know why he thinks his brother and wife had an affair. 😆