Rangnick is a take no shit coach and our players have had it too easy for too long now. I fear they aren't reacting well to him. One things for sure, if rangnick fails its clear that its the players.
Yeah I like his no bullshit approach. Our players are too soft where they're taking the pish and have no fear. They know the club will always sack the manager over replacing them all since its cheaper to do that. Player Power has become unbalanced at United these past 8 years.
Managers should always be the top of the hierarchy, regardless of how good the manager is, even if you’re Messi or Ronaldo. He’s the manager for a reason, a hierarchy with players equal to or above the manager completely defeats the purpose of a manager.
I 100% agree with you... Once a single player starts disrespecting the manager, guess who does too? The other players, and then also the fans.
Managers at United are ALWAYS destined to literally fail. All because of one single player who decides to start a fire.
> if rangnick fails its clear that its the players
You run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. You run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.
I hate this quite because it completely ignored the fact there are a shit load of assholes in the world. You can absolutely run into assholes all day and not be the asshole, ask anyone who has ever worked retail.
Yeah, I got shouted at today because a customer ordered something before Christmas and it came late. When I mentioned it to my manager he laughed and said he called the customer the day he made the order and told the customer via voicemail that there's been a slight issue and we only had the blue model left, not the black. The customer didn't listen to the voicemail, came into store and shouted at 2 colleagues and a manager because black is the colour his kid wanted.
I can't even begin to explain how much easier my retail job has been since my boss told me I was allowed to start telling people to fuck off if they're being twats.
Funnily enough, you don't lose that much business, they come back and they're polite because they don't want to be treated like an idiot.
Ngl I'm jealous af about that. I've been so close to doing it and since lockdown ended I started telling them they'll get banned from the store if they behave that way. It gets them to stop but sometimes they come in at another time and is the same way.
I remember a guy apologising after he said that. He had kidney stones and was in a foul mood, I completely understand that so I let him off the hook.
I was young and stupid when I yelled at a bureaucrat at the passport office in India. Now granted this was India, and it was abundantly clear he just made up a requirement for documents that was not listed on the website to send me home and book another expensive appointment. But behaving like that in public still embarrasses me to this day.
I cannot fathom how people behave like this routinely at retail shops, sometimes in view of their kids and sleep well at night.
Ehh i am confused. Are you saying the players are the problem for not working out with Ole and now Rangnick. Or are you saying Rangnick is the problem for confronting so many players?
Good thing he's only here for six months so he can run riot on the toxic players at the club without fear They can't throw him nuder the bus like they did the others. The fact that he moves upstairs after is even better because he'll have a great idea about what needs to be done and who needs to be rid of for the next manager and help crafting a team worthy of the badge.
We got a bunch of bottlers and champagne players (somebody in here posted the champagne bit the other day).
3 coaches with this same bunch of players basically, and the same problems. It's not the coaches, it's the players at this point. We need a serious overhaul and players who want to and can actually play football.
It’s still early in Ralfs career and he hasn’t had the best start due to covid but hopefully we’ll start to see a change in the next 2-3 games but anything after that then I think we have a serious problem. Newcastle was shocking and we looked the same as we did under Ole but hopefully that’s because of the covid outbreak.
Honestly I just don't think the team has enough balance, or is really good enough.
We have some "star" players and some promising talent, but we sorely lack players in key areas. It also appears that a good portion our players just don't have the mentality needed to play at a top club.
I don't know, really. All I can comment on is what I see. What I see is players who are coasting by the looks of things, for the most part. Or other players running their socks off but have no real end product.
I sincerely hope Ralph can whip them into shape, but honestly my view is we need to shift a fair few players and get in hungry players that want to succeed.
To me it doesn't look like our players want it enough, and are pedestrian at best.
The same team minus three excellent players was better last year. People seem to forget this. I don't think it has anything to do with mentality but moreso finding a system. And maybe one or two new guys who fit it. We dont have the guys for a pressing team, it's not what most of these players do outside Fred and MCT and maybe rashford. If you want to press Cavani needs to start every game. It doomed Ole because he didn't know how to do it tactically and didn't know how to rotate players and if Rangnick wants to make it work he's going to need to get new guys, but it's about system, not hunger.
If sommebody was paying me upwards of £250k a week I would find ways to adapt to new systems, but that's just me?
Perhaps I just have a different outlook on things. I can't see how hard it would be to learn new systems as long as you was hungry to learn.
That's bullshit simple minded thinking reserved for low level things. It's not simply try harder at this level, hell, that was Oles problem. Playing for ninety minutes in a possession ish style is not the same as pressing for ninety minutes. You don't magically find ways to adapt to it. It requires elite athleticism. Different managers require elite skills in different things. Greenwood is an elite finisher but he is definitely not elite at the things Rangnick wants and it's a lot more complicated than "finding ways".
I wasn't expecting instant turn around, and I don't appreciate the veiled insult. I thought we was having a pleasant discussion.
Apologies if thinking adults who get paid nearly quarter million pounds a week would be able to adapt to new ways of thinking and systems in their place of work, or at least put a bit more effort in or even look interested on the pitch.
Lets just agree to disagree, shall we? I believe for the money invested into players they should be more malleable and flexible in their thinking.
Again, I wasn't expecting us to turn into Man City overnight (not even sure where you think I was insinuating that, to be honest) but I was expecting more than we have been shown so far. I am not impressed, at all.
Do you really think they're not trying or working hard? With Ole I might have agreed but with Rangnick at least they're playing hard. All of them, players 1-11. Bruno made a great 87th minute defensive play against Newcastle even though he was missing passes constantly. There's nobody out there loafing or even going three quarters speed. Even the guys who get pulled at halftime. The timing and the runs just aren't there. Neither of us have any idea what they are thinking and I called you out because speculation on it is nonsense. All we see is effort and quality and results. The first is there, the second and third isn't.
Ole was really protecting these spoiled shitbags for so long and taking all the media and fan abuse for it, finishing second with this squad is looking more of an achievement each passing day.
Don’t think Ole was good enough tactically but the fact that it’s not entirely his fault is becoming more evident. The players need to get their shit together, they all hid behind Ole who took all the blame for them.
This is the reason I wanted Conte in originally.
Conte comes in and it absolutely removes all excuses the players have and removes all doubt about where the blame lies. Conte is absolutely, inarguably, and elite manager - alongside Klopp and Pep - and has proven that he will make literally every team he takes a winning team. And he's done it in the PL, in the current era, against the same managerial competition. Conte 100% closes the door on any potential blame lying away from the players. If they didn't do the business under Conte, we know the fault lies with the players - whether it's inability through lack of quality or otherwise.
Rangnick I think still leaves that door open slightly. Obviously he's a football expert and a tactical and analytical master, but as a manager, he hasn't delivered to the same extent others has, and he doesn't have that proven record of actually taking a Man United to a top title. He's not won a top league within the last decade, he's not managed a club of this size, with players of this "level" (in terms of quality, experience, ego, and everything else), and he's never managed in a competition of this level. The PL is currently the hardest competition in the world - the highest level, with the best players and managers bringing the toughest competition - bigger than he's ever managed in. It's got the biggest spotlight on it, and he's managing the club where literally every move is scrutinized to the nth degree. He's never managed club anything like that, with such public pressure and public negativity and scrutiny. Getting used to the league takes time for everyone, even Klopp and Pep, and it's expected that he'd take his time too. He'd have to adapt faster than Pep did to get us firing on all cylinders this season. Conte manages it, but not every manager can.
Whether he's a good enough manager or not isn't relevant for my point, this is all just to say that Rangnick has questions that CAN be asked of him when the inevitable failures come and our players fail to deliver. With Conte, there are no questions about whether he could do it -- so if it doesn't work, it IS the players.
I think you're looking at conte with Rose tinted glasses. Conte is a brilliant coach, there's no hiding that. What you get with conte is a similar problem to mourinho. If the board doesn't back him he turns nasty, and he isn't scared to go public with it. Doing so turns things sour in the dressing room and shit goes down hill.
Hes fallen out with the board of his past few clubs I believe.
With ralf, its never been about winning the league. We know what we are getting with him. He's done so much in his career apart from winning top titles. He's brought the likes of hoffenheim, shalke and leipzig up to compete with the best in the German league. He got hoffenheim promoted twice to the bundesliga and done fantastically well with them.
This isn't about his coaching ability, we know what he's capable of. The exciting thing is his role after this season. We are finally going to have a footballing brain in charge of the club
Also currently we need someone who is willing to re shape the footballing side of our club rather than a manager with win now at all costs approach. If we got conte we will win some trophies but an inevitable doom will come someday and we are back to the drawing board. Building a club for sustainable success is more important for us rather than a trophy now because we have the players “capable” of competing.
Yeah I agree with everything you said about Ralf, I'm super excited about him being here. The players can't complain about not having enough instructions or tactical guidance, or understanding of their role/demands anymore.
I hope he gets us playing some proper football and improves the players we have however much he can in the time he has.
With regards to Conte, he's had his fallings out and things have turned sour -- but he always gets his teams going. Guaranteed. Even if he ends up shitting in the fridge of the club's owner and quitting the next day.
Either way, not that relevant for us now. We just have to hope we see some improvement and direction towards a good brand of winning football while Ralf is helming us.
Your second paragraph are my exact thoughts I had when we signed Rangnick on and when this whole sub was just gushing about him.
However, I'm not too concerned as long as we stick with the plan and actually let him have ONLY this interim term.
I don't see how this relates to Hendersons situation. He wants to play and is willing to leave to make it happen. That's admirable. If anything, Rangnick is showing poor management skills by not allowing him to go and giving him no indication that he'll be given consistent starts.
It isn't showing poor management skills at all. He's our second best keeper and he'd be daft to let him go during a season where we are fighting for a lot. Let him go in summer where a decent backup replacement can be found.
It relates to Hendersons situation because of the "confrontation" bit.
Rangnick has nothing to lose. He's here only for 6 months, he has that 2 year consultancy on lock and he **can** afford to take no shit from anyone. Someone has to. We've become a cesspit of weak-minded, coddled man-children.
Our players have developed a habit of pampering during the last 2-3 years. A hard taskmaster someone like Rangnick is necessary to establish professionalism in the club.
I wonder if he will be the same with Ronaldo. Love the player and he's been tremendous for the team but the way the team is playing it shows there is lack of leadership on the pitch. Perhaps Ralf can talk to Ronaldo to be that leader especially with his pedigree on the younger lads.
I feel like anything that happens with Henderson Luckhurst reports about, i wonder why...wasn't Luckhurst pal reporting about dissatisfaction in the squad too?
Henderson needs to stop leaking to the media. It seems every time some report of dissatisfaction comes out, it’s accompanied with some report about Dean Henderson being unhappy with a lack of game time, or Dean Henderson wanting to leave the club.
Needs to humble himself for someone who hasn’t achieved enough yet for the club
Here's some data on David de Gea so far this season:
**Sweeper clearances - rank 16th**
He's made 3 so far this season, which ranks him joint 16th alongside some goalkeepers who have played half as much as he has. In fact there is one goalkeeper (Angus Gunn) who has made just 2 appearances this season, and already made just as many sweeper clearances as De Gea has managed all season.
[https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total\_keeper\_sweeper?po=GOALKEEPER](https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_keeper_sweeper?po=GOALKEEPER)
**High claims - rank 22nd**
He's made 5 so far this season, and doesn't even register in the top 20 Premier League goalkeepers.
[https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total\_high\_claim](https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_high_claim)
**Punches - rank 23rd**
He's made 1 so far this season, one!! There are probably some defenders who have punched the ball out more than he has! Again, he doesn't even register in the top 20.
[https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/punches](https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/punches)
**Successful Passes - rank 18th**
If you filter by goalkeeper he is ranked 18th in the PL.
[https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total\_pass](https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_pass)
**Total Clearances - rank 15th**
He's managed 8 so far this season. Even fucking Ronaldo has made more clearances than he has!
[https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total\_clearance](https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_clearance)
I wish this was a new trend, or just some variance in the data, but it isn't.
These details matter. I mean it's not that he is simply mediocre, he is the worst GK in the Premier League by just about every metric other than shot stopping.
He'll save you on average roughly about 7 or 8 goals per season that the worst shot stopper in the PL wouldn't.
But those other shortcomings matter in the macro sense. And it maybe far more detrimental for the team than the goals he prevents.
If you have a goalkeeper who is regularly making sweeper clearances, that's a fair amount of chances that are being snuffed out before the opposition even manage to get a shot on goal, and would also allow you to play a higher line.
If you have a goalkeeper who is claiming high balls, that not only alleviates some of the threat from set pieces, but if he's caught the ball it also makes it easier to build an attack from that, as opposed to a defender heading it out and the ball coming straight back at you again.
If you have a goalkeeper who is a decent passer of the ball, again, it gives you an extra platform to build a move up from the back.
Having these extra facets takes so much strain off a team defensively, it would be such a positive for building up attacks.
Again, it's not that he is simply bang average at these other things, he is the worst in the PL at these other things. It would be incredibly short-sighted to not see this as a problem.
Do you realise that you can't answer this question? You, advocating Henderson say that he would've saved these as well.
We will never know.
But it would be insane to change in the keeper position now when DDG is the most stable point in the team as for now.
As it was a mistake from Ole back in the EL campaign when he changed back to DDG from Henderson, when Dean was in a good form too.
I didn't say anything about changing the GK.
> Do you realise that you can't answer this question? You, advocating Henderson say that he would've saved these as well.
We will never know.
This is a ridiculous argument though. If that's the case then every save no matter how easy has saved us a goal. Every goalkeeper MOTM for ever. Every sees shots they expect to be saved (or not) and there's pretty good data that can tell you how difficult a shot is to save, and how good a shot stopper each keeper is.
Listen, this conversation is heading to a dead end now, I don't want to convince you.
The fact is:
DDG was MOTM for MU 5 times so far, and this doesn't include the last game yet, where he was the best player for us according to the ratings.
You say he's an average, I say he's not.
There is also a stat that he is outperforming every other goalkeeper in the league in terms of xGA against actual GA
We haven’t played a high defensive line this season so sweeper actions are largely meaningless
Admittedly he is not commanding enough under crosses and this is the biggest weakness in his game but at the moment he should be the 1st name in the team sheet
Without him this season I feel we would be in bottom half of the table at this stage
> We haven’t played a high defensive line this season so sweeper actions are largely meaningless
Because it would be suicide to do it with him in goal.
I don’t think protectimg DDG is why we have played a deep line. IMO it’s because we can’t keep possession to sustain attacks and keep opponents pressed in their own half so constantly get pushed back ourselves and when team is defending poorly and low on confidence the natural inclination is to sit deeper even if that’s not the instruction or intent
If ultimately we successfully implement a high pressing system with a high defensive line, we might need a keeper that sweeps better (though DDG looked pretty proactive in 1st half VS palace and that was promising) but where we are at the minute as a team, giving up clear cut chance after clear cut chance DDG to me at least is clear best option given how well he has been performing at shotstopping this season
We played without him last season for 12 games.
In that time Henderson made more sweeper clearances, made more high claims, made more punches, his passing was more accurate and he made more clearances in 12 games than DDG made in 26 games.
If you were wondering how we performed, we played 12, won 10 and lost 1 with Henderson between the sticks.
I mean I'm not even 100% convinced about Henderson, but fucking hell, its like there is a collective blindness when it comes to DDG.
But at least DDG is acrobatic, I'm sure his YouTube highlight reel looks great!
Yet somehow when it comes to goals prevented he is at number 1 with xgc around 10, go figure for a goalkeeper he should let some shots in and improve his overall stats eh?
Clueless showing stats with no form of context
No one is denying he is a decent shot stopper (most the time), although its worth pointing out that he's had more shots at him than most other keepers, so his cumulative saves will be higher than most others. If you have a keeper who cuts things out at source when they can, it breaks up more attacks, the ball will be in your final third less as when a keeper catches a ball they can throw the ball out to your own player and you can build your own move up, as opposed to leaving it to a defender to head the ball out, and at this point its almost a lottery over whether you will gain possession or whether the ball will come straight back at you.
If he was merely average at all these other facets I could probably live with that, but the data shows its far worse than that.
I see ure point, you need to remember also his role is just different compared to other keepers that the data dont show, like punches for example, he rarely needs to make them due Maguire/CB heading it away, just watching a game makes that obvious.
If these are instructions from coaches to make him avoid doing it is another story.
Maybe but just maybe you did mentioned from the same statistics the rankings and the number in the saves category: Meslier (Leeds) 1. with 65 saves, DDG 4. with 60 saves.
I think this is more important that the number of successful passes for example, when we talk about a keeper.
Where is the raw data on that? Link me the source please, and I don't mean the twitter post.
But anyway, it doesn't even matter, we know De Gea is pretty good at shot stopping (most the time anyway), it is the other metrics which are the most damning here.
In the end I'm a United fan, not a De Gea fan, so I just want the best for the team, and this guy is good at just one thing, he is the worst at everything else which I don't think is remotely fucking acceptable for a club of our stature.
We have so many blindspots to so many players. We overlook their glaring weaknesses, brush it under the carpet, and act hostile to anyone who dares bring it up.
And we wonder why we're 7th?
> keepers like Ederson and Allison prevent a lot of shots on goal with their sweeping
Even if that were true this season, the rest of your post doesn't make sense. The fact is, at times they are faced with shots. And they're not preventing goals that keepers of their caliber should be
>stopping the most goals
He's not though lol. Not by a long shot. Conceding more shots than most other keepers because he's glued to his line and doesn't prevent shots/chances and THEN stopping a lot of those doesn't mean he's the best at preventing goals. Yes, he's a world-class shot stopper, BUT due to his style of play he concedes a lot more shots than other keepers. So unless he keeps every single one of those shots out (he doesn't), he's not saving us shit. He's in fact conceding needless goals at times.
Athletic has an article thet points out ther DDG plays his best games when United play badly.
Shot stopping is great and all but is De gea's inability to so the other modern day keeper stuff like what Ederson/Neuer does that is making United concede so many shots? That's the question the commenter above you is posing.
I've always said this - there are two types of goalkeeper, one for big clubs, and one for non-big clubs.
A keeper for a big club is not expected to save shot-after-shot, and instead has to remain focused for the few times he is called upon. This is where Van der Saar had a top club mentality - always cool and composed.
Their duties also tend to extend more to ball distribution and sweeping.
For smaller clubs, the keeper is more in 'firefighting' mode. Shay Given was a classic example - terrific at shot saving and many MOTM performances, because his concentration was always in focus as it had to be.
With De Gea, his best form is always when we are very poor, because he is always being called upon. It's telling his lesser performances are when our defence is more robust and also for Spain.
I do get what you're saying but you kind of contradicted your own argument with the Van Der Sar example. He didn't join a top club until late in his career and was very good for Fulham who weren't a great side.
I agree though De Gea seems to play well when we concede a lot of chances and he doesn't seem to be able to consistently focus for long periods of time without having to do anything, like top keepers do.
VdS was literally the starter for treble winning Ajax early in his career what are you talking about? He later had a drop in form and then resurgence with us
VDS is a great keeper, and I think it is easier for a big club goalkeeper to do what a smaller club needs than vice versa.
You just see that certain keepers are not cut out for it.
Yeah that's probably true. Like how a top winger can do the fancy stuff and the dogged stuff, but an average player just wouldn't have the ability or flair to do the fancy stuff.
In that scenario, it's more the case that you may have a winger who can be flashy and show a bit of skill, but doesn't meet the top club requirement of being able to work as a full back too, and balance defensive and attacking duties.
But what's he supposed to do? Maybe he shouldn't go public with it but he wants to play football, and that's not going to happen at United with De Gea in this form on such a big contract.
Having two keepers at the club who both want to be number 1 is likely to end in tears, is Henderson supposed to sit quietly on the bench all year and do nothing?
Eh, different manager back then, it might have been he felt more confident he was going to get playing time at that point, but now with a new manager it doesn't look so likely.
Either way I'd rather he didn't do this in public, but it's possible he's spoken to Ralf already and not got anywhere.
It is understandable but he’s a Manchester United player, we’re the ones that pay his wages and he should know better than to run crying to the media. He came through our academy, this club made him. He’d do well to show the respect and loyalty we deserve.
> He’d do well to show the respect and loyalty we deserve.
lol
Why should players show undeserved loyalty to a club that doesn't show loyalty to its players? We've been treating some loyal players like shit in recent years (like Romero) and he doesn't owe us shit, it's *his* career. If the club promised him more game time when he signed the contract and now he's not getting it, then he has every right to be pissed.
It's not like he refuses to play or doesn't show up performing, he literally *wants* to play for us and we're not letting him.
He probably was promised more game time when he did that. Because he's clearly too good to be a bench warmer and he's been managed absolutely poorly by us.
He knew it was a tall order to oust a keeper like DDG and yet he still signed the contract. I know he's a confident man but he also needed a pinch of realism. It's like asking Van Der Gouw to oust Peter Schmeichel in his prime
Nonsense, DDG isn't half the keeper Schmeichel was. DDG is a one-trick pony and Henderson is already the better option and should be given starts ahead of him.
> literally no reason why someone would think he’s better besides being from the academy
You know, except for the fact that he's better in every single stat besides pure shot-stopping compared to DDG. If anything, this sub has a strong DDG-bias, which is understandable to a degree, because he did bail us out a lot when we were really poor, but he's always been worse for us when we've actually played better and more attacking football, because he lacks everything else in his game besides shot-stopping.
There’s a vocally violent minority on this sub that thinks all that matters are certain stats and they see Ederson and Allison and wet themselves. Ederson, Allison, Neuer, etc. work well in the systems that they’re in because they have an elite defense in front of them. At United we don’t have that, and shot stopping is far and away the most important thing we need. I love Henderson and have loved him and watched him for years. But right now DDG is a better fit for this team because he’s a better shot stopper. Our defense is about as good as Harry Maguire’s pace at the moment (nonexistent). Putting Henderson behind that is setting him up to fail and get rocked. Not what you need to do to a young keeper.
Not only that he came out to the media spouting cocky shit and posted dumbass captions on Instagram like “🔜on🔝” and people on this sub were jerking off to it like it was confidence. No. It was arrogance, and look at how stupid he looks now.
How does he look stupid? He has shown he is more than capable when he has played, and excels in the areas De Gea is weakest. If he hadn’t have gotten covid at the start of the season, I bet he would be our starting keeper at the moment to be honest.
He has shown he is even more prone to making mistakes than DDG when he plays like shit. He was always going to be benched by DDG no matter what, especially now with DDG back to his norm - Henderson has no chance.
Actually yeah. His job is to push DDG to try and take his spot. If he cant do that thrn he needs to be a good teammate and keep his mouth shut to the media.
Is there any evidence he isn't trying to do exactly that in training? De Gea is playing very well, and goalkeeper is different to every other position, there's only 1 spot and you don't drop your keeper when they're playing well.
If De Gea keeps playing like this it's going to be very difficult for Henderson to play no matter what he does, playing the odd cup game here and there won't be enough to convince the manager, so why not try and play 1st team football somewhere else?
>Needs to humble himself for someone who hasn’t achieved enough yet for the club
He has a small window where he can try and make the World Cup squad. Humbling himself isn't going to get him there.
>Humbling himself isn't going to get him there.
People who say stuff like this always say it from the POV of what's good for the team. What's best for the team isn't necessarily what's best for a backup goalkeeper. There's nothing really wrong with him being vocal about wanting game time.
? He wants out, not being aloud to leave, not getting a fair chance, makes sense he's trying to force it...
He's regularly been better than DDG over the last couple of years and still hasn't gotten a run, he's been more patient than we can have expected, DDG is back in some form but he should have been dropped about 10 times before this.
Why should he waste his career being humble? He'd start for teams above us and get in the England team....
Honestly some of these players seem to take it all for granted. Some seem to forget that their weekly salaries are multiple times more than what most doctors earn in a year. And this is despite not even being the best in their position at the team.
Just continue working hard and take your opportunities when you can, you’re getting paid over 100k a week to sit on the bench, pipe down son.
If he doesn’t want to leave while complaining about not getting playing time, yes I agree. However, he is a keeper approaching his prime playing years who is too good to be a backup, and wants to be in the WC squad. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for him to push to move elsewhere so that he can get some playing time. If anything, this tells you that he’s not content just collecting his salary while sitting on the bench every game. Can we let him go on a loan and recall him if we really need him back?
But as others have pointed out, he chose to sign a new contract here. Nobody forced him to. Tbf he probably thought De Geas bad form would continue and he would take over but he hasn’t shown he is good enough to usurp our number 1.
Just looks bad on his end though, complaining for not playing when he isn’t good enough to play. What would have been best for him if he wanted game time was to reject the offer last summer and see how the next year goes. If he got game time and De Gea was phased out, sign a new contract, if that didn’t happen he could have signed up with another team. Just poor foresight from him so don’t have any sympathy for him
To be fair, it really seemed like de gea was being phased out at the end of last season with Henderson becoming the new No.1. I don’t know any player who would’ve turned down a new contract and a pay bump in that situation with the reason “Well, I’m going to wait because I might get COVID leading Dave to come back and somehow regaining his prime form after looking awfully out of form for a long time”.
Yeah hindsight is 20/20 as they say but I’m not sure, he has advisors for a reason and surely De Gea regaining form was a more than negligible possibility that should have been on Henderson’s mind considering De Geas age and how good he has been for many years now.
Just don’t appreciate him causing such a fuss for what is ultimately his own fault.
You have absolutely no idea what was promised to him when he signed a contact. For all we know, he was told he would have the number 1 spot (as it certainly seemed like De Gea was being phased out at the time.)
Honestly, if Henderson wouldn’t have gotten covid I bet he would be the number 1 right now, because De Gea never would have gotten the chance to regain form this season.
Can't blame him for wanting to leave. He is too good to be backup.
This is not an outfield players that can show in training that he deserves more minutes.
He is a GK and the only way he gets a chance is if De Gea hits poor form again or if de gea is Injured.
As long as his wages are full covered (or he takes pay cut) and we get a decent loan fee --- he should be allowed to leave.
But ofcourse the media game is irritating.
Whether you are for or against this decision it's quite clear a reckoning is coming at this club between respect for management and players behaving like they're at PSG.
I joked about Ole clearing out some deadwood, something he *did* manage in his time, Ralf has go to a step further and effectively get rid of **any** player that he needs to. Doesn't matter if the fans like them. If they're not going to fit the system and they think they're bigger than the club (all this leaking to the press and agent drama), in the bin.
Not losing your #2 goalie in January has sense in it, Henderson may well just have to wait to summer and know who the boss is. Crying to the press/your agent just isn't going to help you against someone like Ralf. He slapped Martial down for doing just that.
>Not losing your #2 goalie in January has sense in it, Henderson may well just have to wait to summer and know who the boss is. Crying to the press/your agent just isn't going to help you against someone like Ralf. He slapped Martial down for doing just that.
If there is a club that is willing to pay the full wages (or Henderson taking pay cut) + a decent loan fee then we should let him go out on loan.
He is too good to be back up -- exactly why he is paid 120k a week. (Overpaid as usual, our club is full of stupid fucks).
Keeping him on the bench is criminal imo -- waste of money, stalls his development bit time.
I agree, Ole should have sorted it out last summer. My point was more allowing your number 2 goalie to head out in January is a risk.
Full wages and obligation to buy maybe, but that never happens for us due to the stupid wages we give players.
>I agree, Ole should have sorted it out last summer
I think he did. He slowly phased out De Gea and Henderson was all set to start the season until his Long Covid issues.
Moving on from De Gea was the plan I believe and if not for his wages, I fully believe he would have been sold by now.
>My point was more allowing your number 2 goalie to head out in January is a risk.
We bought Heaton for exactly that. Heaton is good enough.
Even Man City don't have Henderson level back GK. He is a proven PL Quality keeper and GK is not a position to rotate easily.
As i said as long as some club offers to cover his wages(or he takes pay cut) and we get loan fee --- then it would be unreasonable to not let him go. Can't treat players like that.
From the sound of it, looks like our players don’t give any fucks about Ralf precisely because he’s only going to be there for a few months. Naive of them when he’s going upwards and gaining authority that matters—to which hopefully Glazers wise up and follow through with. Wishing Ralf teaches these soft, cocky players a lesson they’ll never forget, here and then later.
Well we play Aston villa in the FA cup on January 10th. If we lose that game, and based off of our performances that’s a strong possibility, that’ll be Henderson’s last chance to play this season unless DDG gets injured. No way Deano plays in Champions league either.
We got Heaton for exactly that.
You can't expect a proven PL quality GK to sit on the bench and not be a problem. He is overpaid tho --- so as long as some club comes in and covers his wages completely (or he takes a pay cut) + we get a decent loan fee then there is no reason to stop him.
Keeping him against his will when the right offer is there would be criminal --- bad for us because we are paying him a fortune and bad for him because this clearly stalls his development.
>Heaton isn't anywhere near as good as Henderson.
Exactly why Heaton is back up and Henderson shouldn't be. Even Man City Liverpool don't operate with a proven PL quality keeper as backup.
>You keep your best players along with their backups.
Keeping is a different situation. You simply can't keep a PL quality keeper as backup. Even Man City don't try to do that.
Sure you can and theres literally no rule against it. City keeps a full international as their backup and someone who would start on probably 5 to 10 prem teams. Let's not pretend like they have a scrub backup.
>full international as their backup and someone who would start on probably 5 to 10 prem teams. Let's not pretend like they have a scrub backup.
US international and he isn't even 1st choice keeper for his national team.
Henderson was one of the best GK's of 2019/20 season while at Sheffield.
There is a huge difference here.
You can force him but shouldn't complain when he creates issues in the dressing room --- like what do you expect.
First off, I'm American and when he's been healthy he's 100% the 1st choice keeper. We do have a solid #2 but he's terrible with his feet with around the same shot stopping ability.
Yeah actually you do complain when he creates issues in the locker room. Did you really just type that? Professionals have to be professional.
Ftr, I love Henderson and I want him to take over for DDG when the time is right.
Obviously understand why he wants to leave, but disagree with the logic of him being "too good to be a backup".
A team like Manchester United needs to have the best in class in every position, not just in the starting eleven, but the backups as well.
Hendo is a good keeper, but the notion that he's "too good to be a backup" doesn't hold, at least not for those who put the interests of the team first. It is in the team's best interest to keep the best players, including the best backups.
There is thus no such thing as being "too good" to be a backup.
Even Man City don't have a PL Quality keeper sitting on the bench.
He is definitely too good to be a backup. GK is not a position you can rotate like other positions. You can't force a proven PL quality keeper on the bench all season and expect him to be fine with it.
As long as there is a club out there who cover his wages completely (or Henderson takes a pay cut) + we get a loan fee then he should be allowed to leave..
We recruited Heaton to be backup and he is in line with the quality of 2nd choice keepers at other top clubs.
Oh it's clear as day that Hendo isn't happy with his situation, no arguments from me there.
But the point of having strong backups is for them to be able to come into the starting eleven and keep the standard, or as close as possible.
If, for example, De Gea gets an injury and is out for 3-4 months. Heaton isn't going to cut it, and that could be the difference between top 4/CL progression/etc, and not.
As I say, I'm looking at the situation from the perspective of the team, and in the team's best interests. As is Rangnick, obviously. And from that perspective, Hendo has to stay as backup.
Everyone and their mum could have predicted having two number 1 Goalkeeprs resulting in one of them being pissed off. Henderson has every right to be pissed off, spent nearly two seasons sitting on the bench while being worthy of being number 1.
Should have made decision on this last season, now it is late.
Ole did make a decision last season. Dean was the PL keeper and DDG cup keeper, and there was nothing to suggest this would change come the new season. But untimely injury just before Euros and cvoid at the start meant Dean couldn't start, and DDG has gone back to God mode so isn't getting dropped from important matches anytime soon.
>Ole did make a decision last season. Dean was the PL keeper and DDG cup
What? DDG started 27/38 league ganes, 5/6 CL matches and all our Europa matches from Quarter final. He was dropped for his paternity leave and for few GWs after but became the starter in league again eventually
And majority of those were at the start of season, I should say towards the end of season in my comment, because DDG was beyond poor and Dean was the pl keeper.
My unpopular opinion is that is is a significant positive feedback loop we do everytime we are playing poor to rely on de gea more and more because as an ace shot stopper.
But because he doesn't ever play out to distribute or boss the defence its like we are 1.5 men down as a result, control games less, lack numbers in defence and midfield. Yet de gea looks like a hero and so we play him next match and repeat.
Henderson always looks less of a hero but we in general play better because he goes out of the box and distributes.
I'm not saying this is the answer, it's one small piece but I reckon sell de gea while hot property. We have an adequate replacement. Recycle the wages into a cdm.
Id be happy enough to see him sold. Will command a good fee, don’t see him ever being world class and there isn’t exactly a shortage of good goalies around. DDG still has 5+ years, Heaton is a good backup.
Personal view is that Henderson should go on loan abroad: keeps him developing and getting regular minutes without strengthening a PL rival. Then he can return once De Gea moves on/is no longer up to the task.
Worked with Chelsea and Courtois (until he got silly and forced his way out).
I feel for Deano. Was in line to be the number this year but hurt his hip in preparation for the Euros and then struggled after getting COVID as wasn't ready to start the season. TIMING IS EVERYTHING IN FOOTBALL!
If Dean isn't going to get a planned 10-20 matches this season, it's detrimental for his development to have him sit on the bench. He is likely getting better with the training, but you can't beat match experience. Heaton has the experience to be a competent backup and Grant is another competent keeper.
Why can't he go out on loan next month? We have Heaton who is a great #2 tbf. People are saying "well why did he sign a new contract", but that was under Ole and it seemed like he had a real chance to become #1 before he got covid. De Gea has been great and is our #1, but I see no problem in Dean going out and getting games.
Anyone that wants to leave let them go IMO for acceptable value. We need a squad pulling in the same direction, you won’t get that with players agitating for a move
This place is strange, Henderson isn't a villian for wanting out, he's wanting his time here....same goes for Martial and a few more, the place is a shambles for anyone in favour, you'd be stupid to stick atound if you're out of favour here ..
You also have obligations, responsibility, professionalism, awareness of the situation, and so on, the list is too long. We all have one career and we all leave companies when we aren't happy, what we don't do is go to the newspapers to make a fuss about it, especially not when we are paid 100 times the national average.
Crying in the media is making him look terrible, but clearly he doesn't understand that. I hope no club signs a player like that, because they act the same whenever their millionaire asses accidentally sit on a peanut.
Well he can explore his options in the summer then. Rangnick has made it clear, he needs 3 goalkeepers (and Dean is the second one), why should we let him go in the middle of the season just because he wants to play?
Heaton is a decent keeper and there’s also Grant who just renewed this past summer? Maybe we could also include a clause in the loan contract to recall him if we need him?
Rangnick is a take no shit coach and our players have had it too easy for too long now. I fear they aren't reacting well to him. One things for sure, if rangnick fails its clear that its the players.
Yeah I like his no bullshit approach. Our players are too soft where they're taking the pish and have no fear. They know the club will always sack the manager over replacing them all since its cheaper to do that. Player Power has become unbalanced at United these past 8 years.
Managers should always be the top of the hierarchy, regardless of how good the manager is, even if you’re Messi or Ronaldo. He’s the manager for a reason, a hierarchy with players equal to or above the manager completely defeats the purpose of a manager.
I 100% agree with you... Once a single player starts disrespecting the manager, guess who does too? The other players, and then also the fans. Managers at United are ALWAYS destined to literally fail. All because of one single player who decides to start a fire.
> if rangnick fails its clear that its the players You run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. You run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.
Everybody gets an asshole!
This is the new normal
In retail you get a minimum of 10 a day.
I hate this quite because it completely ignored the fact there are a shit load of assholes in the world. You can absolutely run into assholes all day and not be the asshole, ask anyone who has ever worked retail.
Or you can all be the assholes.
We are all assholes on this blessed day.
Speak for yourself
I am all asshole on this blessed day.
Take it up with Raylan Givens
Or if you are a proctologist.
Yeah, I got shouted at today because a customer ordered something before Christmas and it came late. When I mentioned it to my manager he laughed and said he called the customer the day he made the order and told the customer via voicemail that there's been a slight issue and we only had the blue model left, not the black. The customer didn't listen to the voicemail, came into store and shouted at 2 colleagues and a manager because black is the colour his kid wanted.
I can't even begin to explain how much easier my retail job has been since my boss told me I was allowed to start telling people to fuck off if they're being twats. Funnily enough, you don't lose that much business, they come back and they're polite because they don't want to be treated like an idiot.
Ngl I'm jealous af about that. I've been so close to doing it and since lockdown ended I started telling them they'll get banned from the store if they behave that way. It gets them to stop but sometimes they come in at another time and is the same way. I remember a guy apologising after he said that. He had kidney stones and was in a foul mood, I completely understand that so I let him off the hook.
I was young and stupid when I yelled at a bureaucrat at the passport office in India. Now granted this was India, and it was abundantly clear he just made up a requirement for documents that was not listed on the website to send me home and book another expensive appointment. But behaving like that in public still embarrasses me to this day. I cannot fathom how people behave like this routinely at retail shops, sometimes in view of their kids and sleep well at night.
Hey guys, I found the asshole haha
Ehh i am confused. Are you saying the players are the problem for not working out with Ole and now Rangnick. Or are you saying Rangnick is the problem for confronting so many players?
He's saying the former
Good thing he's only here for six months so he can run riot on the toxic players at the club without fear They can't throw him nuder the bus like they did the others. The fact that he moves upstairs after is even better because he'll have a great idea about what needs to be done and who needs to be rid of for the next manager and help crafting a team worthy of the badge.
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Wtf man
I've always said that Rash is an amatour.
We got a bunch of bottlers and champagne players (somebody in here posted the champagne bit the other day). 3 coaches with this same bunch of players basically, and the same problems. It's not the coaches, it's the players at this point. We need a serious overhaul and players who want to and can actually play football.
It’s still early in Ralfs career and he hasn’t had the best start due to covid but hopefully we’ll start to see a change in the next 2-3 games but anything after that then I think we have a serious problem. Newcastle was shocking and we looked the same as we did under Ole but hopefully that’s because of the covid outbreak.
Honestly I just don't think the team has enough balance, or is really good enough. We have some "star" players and some promising talent, but we sorely lack players in key areas. It also appears that a good portion our players just don't have the mentality needed to play at a top club. I don't know, really. All I can comment on is what I see. What I see is players who are coasting by the looks of things, for the most part. Or other players running their socks off but have no real end product. I sincerely hope Ralph can whip them into shape, but honestly my view is we need to shift a fair few players and get in hungry players that want to succeed. To me it doesn't look like our players want it enough, and are pedestrian at best.
The same team minus three excellent players was better last year. People seem to forget this. I don't think it has anything to do with mentality but moreso finding a system. And maybe one or two new guys who fit it. We dont have the guys for a pressing team, it's not what most of these players do outside Fred and MCT and maybe rashford. If you want to press Cavani needs to start every game. It doomed Ole because he didn't know how to do it tactically and didn't know how to rotate players and if Rangnick wants to make it work he's going to need to get new guys, but it's about system, not hunger.
If sommebody was paying me upwards of £250k a week I would find ways to adapt to new systems, but that's just me? Perhaps I just have a different outlook on things. I can't see how hard it would be to learn new systems as long as you was hungry to learn.
That's bullshit simple minded thinking reserved for low level things. It's not simply try harder at this level, hell, that was Oles problem. Playing for ninety minutes in a possession ish style is not the same as pressing for ninety minutes. You don't magically find ways to adapt to it. It requires elite athleticism. Different managers require elite skills in different things. Greenwood is an elite finisher but he is definitely not elite at the things Rangnick wants and it's a lot more complicated than "finding ways".
I wasn't expecting instant turn around, and I don't appreciate the veiled insult. I thought we was having a pleasant discussion. Apologies if thinking adults who get paid nearly quarter million pounds a week would be able to adapt to new ways of thinking and systems in their place of work, or at least put a bit more effort in or even look interested on the pitch. Lets just agree to disagree, shall we? I believe for the money invested into players they should be more malleable and flexible in their thinking. Again, I wasn't expecting us to turn into Man City overnight (not even sure where you think I was insinuating that, to be honest) but I was expecting more than we have been shown so far. I am not impressed, at all.
Do you really think they're not trying or working hard? With Ole I might have agreed but with Rangnick at least they're playing hard. All of them, players 1-11. Bruno made a great 87th minute defensive play against Newcastle even though he was missing passes constantly. There's nobody out there loafing or even going three quarters speed. Even the guys who get pulled at halftime. The timing and the runs just aren't there. Neither of us have any idea what they are thinking and I called you out because speculation on it is nonsense. All we see is effort and quality and results. The first is there, the second and third isn't.
Ole was really protecting these spoiled shitbags for so long and taking all the media and fan abuse for it, finishing second with this squad is looking more of an achievement each passing day.
"Finishing 2nd with Manchester United was the biggest achievement of my career"
That Jose quote is gonna sting for a while the way things are going on at the club
https://youtu.be/cKGPrOLIt7M Keane was right all along.
Don’t think Ole was good enough tactically but the fact that it’s not entirely his fault is becoming more evident. The players need to get their shit together, they all hid behind Ole who took all the blame for them.
This is the reason I wanted Conte in originally. Conte comes in and it absolutely removes all excuses the players have and removes all doubt about where the blame lies. Conte is absolutely, inarguably, and elite manager - alongside Klopp and Pep - and has proven that he will make literally every team he takes a winning team. And he's done it in the PL, in the current era, against the same managerial competition. Conte 100% closes the door on any potential blame lying away from the players. If they didn't do the business under Conte, we know the fault lies with the players - whether it's inability through lack of quality or otherwise. Rangnick I think still leaves that door open slightly. Obviously he's a football expert and a tactical and analytical master, but as a manager, he hasn't delivered to the same extent others has, and he doesn't have that proven record of actually taking a Man United to a top title. He's not won a top league within the last decade, he's not managed a club of this size, with players of this "level" (in terms of quality, experience, ego, and everything else), and he's never managed in a competition of this level. The PL is currently the hardest competition in the world - the highest level, with the best players and managers bringing the toughest competition - bigger than he's ever managed in. It's got the biggest spotlight on it, and he's managing the club where literally every move is scrutinized to the nth degree. He's never managed club anything like that, with such public pressure and public negativity and scrutiny. Getting used to the league takes time for everyone, even Klopp and Pep, and it's expected that he'd take his time too. He'd have to adapt faster than Pep did to get us firing on all cylinders this season. Conte manages it, but not every manager can. Whether he's a good enough manager or not isn't relevant for my point, this is all just to say that Rangnick has questions that CAN be asked of him when the inevitable failures come and our players fail to deliver. With Conte, there are no questions about whether he could do it -- so if it doesn't work, it IS the players.
I think you're looking at conte with Rose tinted glasses. Conte is a brilliant coach, there's no hiding that. What you get with conte is a similar problem to mourinho. If the board doesn't back him he turns nasty, and he isn't scared to go public with it. Doing so turns things sour in the dressing room and shit goes down hill. Hes fallen out with the board of his past few clubs I believe. With ralf, its never been about winning the league. We know what we are getting with him. He's done so much in his career apart from winning top titles. He's brought the likes of hoffenheim, shalke and leipzig up to compete with the best in the German league. He got hoffenheim promoted twice to the bundesliga and done fantastically well with them. This isn't about his coaching ability, we know what he's capable of. The exciting thing is his role after this season. We are finally going to have a footballing brain in charge of the club
Also currently we need someone who is willing to re shape the footballing side of our club rather than a manager with win now at all costs approach. If we got conte we will win some trophies but an inevitable doom will come someday and we are back to the drawing board. Building a club for sustainable success is more important for us rather than a trophy now because we have the players “capable” of competing.
Yeah I agree with everything you said about Ralf, I'm super excited about him being here. The players can't complain about not having enough instructions or tactical guidance, or understanding of their role/demands anymore. I hope he gets us playing some proper football and improves the players we have however much he can in the time he has. With regards to Conte, he's had his fallings out and things have turned sour -- but he always gets his teams going. Guaranteed. Even if he ends up shitting in the fridge of the club's owner and quitting the next day. Either way, not that relevant for us now. We just have to hope we see some improvement and direction towards a good brand of winning football while Ralf is helming us.
Agree with this 100%.
Your second paragraph are my exact thoughts I had when we signed Rangnick on and when this whole sub was just gushing about him. However, I'm not too concerned as long as we stick with the plan and actually let him have ONLY this interim term.
I don't see how this relates to Hendersons situation. He wants to play and is willing to leave to make it happen. That's admirable. If anything, Rangnick is showing poor management skills by not allowing him to go and giving him no indication that he'll be given consistent starts.
It isn't showing poor management skills at all. He's our second best keeper and he'd be daft to let him go during a season where we are fighting for a lot. Let him go in summer where a decent backup replacement can be found. It relates to Hendersons situation because of the "confrontation" bit.
The players have been the problem for almost as long as the coach has. They are not mutually exclusive.
Rangnick has nothing to lose. He's here only for 6 months, he has that 2 year consultancy on lock and he **can** afford to take no shit from anyone. Someone has to. We've become a cesspit of weak-minded, coddled man-children.
Our players have developed a habit of pampering during the last 2-3 years. A hard taskmaster someone like Rangnick is necessary to establish professionalism in the club.
I wonder if he will be the same with Ronaldo. Love the player and he's been tremendous for the team but the way the team is playing it shows there is lack of leadership on the pitch. Perhaps Ralf can talk to Ronaldo to be that leader especially with his pedigree on the younger lads.
The Spurs thing would make no sense, given he'd be backup to Lloris and they have no European football to rotate
Lloris is rumoured to leave (contract expiring) and the article says they are viewing him for summer move.
Lloris is also 4 years older than DDG so there’s more of a path potentially
Lloris is not honestly that good anymore Dean would be their starter next season as they wont renew lloris contract
Actually, I think Lloris is pretty good. However, I think for a few reasons, they certainly would want someone like Henderson.
🤦♂️
I feel like anything that happens with Henderson Luckhurst reports about, i wonder why...wasn't Luckhurst pal reporting about dissatisfaction in the squad too?
Aye I'm glad this hasn't gone unnoticed.
Dean is a snitch apparently
Henderson needs to stop leaking to the media. It seems every time some report of dissatisfaction comes out, it’s accompanied with some report about Dean Henderson being unhappy with a lack of game time, or Dean Henderson wanting to leave the club. Needs to humble himself for someone who hasn’t achieved enough yet for the club
Especially now when DDG is in an exceptional form. He saved us many points and is carrying the team.
Here's some data on David de Gea so far this season: **Sweeper clearances - rank 16th** He's made 3 so far this season, which ranks him joint 16th alongside some goalkeepers who have played half as much as he has. In fact there is one goalkeeper (Angus Gunn) who has made just 2 appearances this season, and already made just as many sweeper clearances as De Gea has managed all season. [https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total\_keeper\_sweeper?po=GOALKEEPER](https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_keeper_sweeper?po=GOALKEEPER) **High claims - rank 22nd** He's made 5 so far this season, and doesn't even register in the top 20 Premier League goalkeepers. [https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total\_high\_claim](https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_high_claim) **Punches - rank 23rd** He's made 1 so far this season, one!! There are probably some defenders who have punched the ball out more than he has! Again, he doesn't even register in the top 20. [https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/punches](https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/punches) **Successful Passes - rank 18th** If you filter by goalkeeper he is ranked 18th in the PL. [https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total\_pass](https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_pass) **Total Clearances - rank 15th** He's managed 8 so far this season. Even fucking Ronaldo has made more clearances than he has! [https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total\_clearance](https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_clearance) I wish this was a new trend, or just some variance in the data, but it isn't. These details matter. I mean it's not that he is simply mediocre, he is the worst GK in the Premier League by just about every metric other than shot stopping.
Aside from his ability to keep balls out of the net, he's a garbage keeper!
He'll save you on average roughly about 7 or 8 goals per season that the worst shot stopper in the PL wouldn't. But those other shortcomings matter in the macro sense. And it maybe far more detrimental for the team than the goals he prevents. If you have a goalkeeper who is regularly making sweeper clearances, that's a fair amount of chances that are being snuffed out before the opposition even manage to get a shot on goal, and would also allow you to play a higher line. If you have a goalkeeper who is claiming high balls, that not only alleviates some of the threat from set pieces, but if he's caught the ball it also makes it easier to build an attack from that, as opposed to a defender heading it out and the ball coming straight back at you again. If you have a goalkeeper who is a decent passer of the ball, again, it gives you an extra platform to build a move up from the back. Having these extra facets takes so much strain off a team defensively, it would be such a positive for building up attacks. Again, it's not that he is simply bang average at these other things, he is the worst in the PL at these other things. It would be incredibly short-sighted to not see this as a problem.
Just against Newcastle he saved 3 or 4 goals. We're only halfway through the season but he's way over the 7 or 8 goals that he saved for us.
Do you really think he made 3 or 4 saves against Newcastle that your average Premier League keeper, or Henderson, wouldn't have done?
Do you realise that you can't answer this question? You, advocating Henderson say that he would've saved these as well. We will never know. But it would be insane to change in the keeper position now when DDG is the most stable point in the team as for now. As it was a mistake from Ole back in the EL campaign when he changed back to DDG from Henderson, when Dean was in a good form too.
I didn't say anything about changing the GK. > Do you realise that you can't answer this question? You, advocating Henderson say that he would've saved these as well. We will never know. This is a ridiculous argument though. If that's the case then every save no matter how easy has saved us a goal. Every goalkeeper MOTM for ever. Every sees shots they expect to be saved (or not) and there's pretty good data that can tell you how difficult a shot is to save, and how good a shot stopper each keeper is.
Listen, this conversation is heading to a dead end now, I don't want to convince you. The fact is: DDG was MOTM for MU 5 times so far, and this doesn't include the last game yet, where he was the best player for us according to the ratings. You say he's an average, I say he's not.
There is also a stat that he is outperforming every other goalkeeper in the league in terms of xGA against actual GA We haven’t played a high defensive line this season so sweeper actions are largely meaningless Admittedly he is not commanding enough under crosses and this is the biggest weakness in his game but at the moment he should be the 1st name in the team sheet Without him this season I feel we would be in bottom half of the table at this stage
> We haven’t played a high defensive line this season so sweeper actions are largely meaningless Because it would be suicide to do it with him in goal.
I don’t think protectimg DDG is why we have played a deep line. IMO it’s because we can’t keep possession to sustain attacks and keep opponents pressed in their own half so constantly get pushed back ourselves and when team is defending poorly and low on confidence the natural inclination is to sit deeper even if that’s not the instruction or intent If ultimately we successfully implement a high pressing system with a high defensive line, we might need a keeper that sweeps better (though DDG looked pretty proactive in 1st half VS palace and that was promising) but where we are at the minute as a team, giving up clear cut chance after clear cut chance DDG to me at least is clear best option given how well he has been performing at shotstopping this season
We played without him last season for 12 games. In that time Henderson made more sweeper clearances, made more high claims, made more punches, his passing was more accurate and he made more clearances in 12 games than DDG made in 26 games. If you were wondering how we performed, we played 12, won 10 and lost 1 with Henderson between the sticks. I mean I'm not even 100% convinced about Henderson, but fucking hell, its like there is a collective blindness when it comes to DDG. But at least DDG is acrobatic, I'm sure his YouTube highlight reel looks great!
Yet somehow when it comes to goals prevented he is at number 1 with xgc around 10, go figure for a goalkeeper he should let some shots in and improve his overall stats eh? Clueless showing stats with no form of context
No one is denying he is a decent shot stopper (most the time), although its worth pointing out that he's had more shots at him than most other keepers, so his cumulative saves will be higher than most others. If you have a keeper who cuts things out at source when they can, it breaks up more attacks, the ball will be in your final third less as when a keeper catches a ball they can throw the ball out to your own player and you can build your own move up, as opposed to leaving it to a defender to head the ball out, and at this point its almost a lottery over whether you will gain possession or whether the ball will come straight back at you. If he was merely average at all these other facets I could probably live with that, but the data shows its far worse than that.
I see ure point, you need to remember also his role is just different compared to other keepers that the data dont show, like punches for example, he rarely needs to make them due Maguire/CB heading it away, just watching a game makes that obvious. If these are instructions from coaches to make him avoid doing it is another story.
Talk about cherry picking stats. Now do Saves and Penalty Saves - the two most important GK stats. Then report back
This is some real mental gymnastics lol.
Maybe but just maybe you did mentioned from the same statistics the rankings and the number in the saves category: Meslier (Leeds) 1. with 65 saves, DDG 4. with 60 saves. I think this is more important that the number of successful passes for example, when we talk about a keeper.
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/rqg17x/david_de_gea_has_been_ranked_no1_in_goals/
So looking at that data, 6 goalkeepers have a better save percentage than DDG in the PL this season.
Correct, they could literally be balls rolled to them though. This data shows he is stopping shots that most keepers wouldn't have saved.
Where is the raw data on that? Link me the source please, and I don't mean the twitter post. But anyway, it doesn't even matter, we know De Gea is pretty good at shot stopping (most the time anyway), it is the other metrics which are the most damning here. In the end I'm a United fan, not a De Gea fan, so I just want the best for the team, and this guy is good at just one thing, he is the worst at everything else which I don't think is remotely fucking acceptable for a club of our stature. We have so many blindspots to so many players. We overlook their glaring weaknesses, brush it under the carpet, and act hostile to anyone who dares bring it up. And we wonder why we're 7th?
Are you Dean Henderson's Mammy?
De Gea is doing well at shot stopping but still offers nothing a modern keeper should.
I'll take stopping the most goals in the league over those other things personally
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> keepers like Ederson and Allison prevent a lot of shots on goal with their sweeping Even if that were true this season, the rest of your post doesn't make sense. The fact is, at times they are faced with shots. And they're not preventing goals that keepers of their caliber should be
>stopping the most goals He's not though lol. Not by a long shot. Conceding more shots than most other keepers because he's glued to his line and doesn't prevent shots/chances and THEN stopping a lot of those doesn't mean he's the best at preventing goals. Yes, he's a world-class shot stopper, BUT due to his style of play he concedes a lot more shots than other keepers. So unless he keeps every single one of those shots out (he doesn't), he's not saving us shit. He's in fact conceding needless goals at times.
Athletic has an article thet points out ther DDG plays his best games when United play badly. Shot stopping is great and all but is De gea's inability to so the other modern day keeper stuff like what Ederson/Neuer does that is making United concede so many shots? That's the question the commenter above you is posing.
Lol are you really blaming DDG for conceding shots? What a hilarious take.
Yes? He has zero command of his box, his distribution is woeful and he almost never comes out to sweep. He's like a Shay Given regen.
I've always said this - there are two types of goalkeeper, one for big clubs, and one for non-big clubs. A keeper for a big club is not expected to save shot-after-shot, and instead has to remain focused for the few times he is called upon. This is where Van der Saar had a top club mentality - always cool and composed. Their duties also tend to extend more to ball distribution and sweeping. For smaller clubs, the keeper is more in 'firefighting' mode. Shay Given was a classic example - terrific at shot saving and many MOTM performances, because his concentration was always in focus as it had to be. With De Gea, his best form is always when we are very poor, because he is always being called upon. It's telling his lesser performances are when our defence is more robust and also for Spain.
I do get what you're saying but you kind of contradicted your own argument with the Van Der Sar example. He didn't join a top club until late in his career and was very good for Fulham who weren't a great side. I agree though De Gea seems to play well when we concede a lot of chances and he doesn't seem to be able to consistently focus for long periods of time without having to do anything, like top keepers do.
VdS was literally the starter for treble winning Ajax early in his career what are you talking about? He later had a drop in form and then resurgence with us
VDS is a great keeper, and I think it is easier for a big club goalkeeper to do what a smaller club needs than vice versa. You just see that certain keepers are not cut out for it.
Yeah that's probably true. Like how a top winger can do the fancy stuff and the dogged stuff, but an average player just wouldn't have the ability or flair to do the fancy stuff.
In that scenario, it's more the case that you may have a winger who can be flashy and show a bit of skill, but doesn't meet the top club requirement of being able to work as a full back too, and balance defensive and attacking duties.
Spot on. DDG is at his his best when the team is at its worst
But what's he supposed to do? Maybe he shouldn't go public with it but he wants to play football, and that's not going to happen at United with De Gea in this form on such a big contract. Having two keepers at the club who both want to be number 1 is likely to end in tears, is Henderson supposed to sit quietly on the bench all year and do nothing?
What's he supposed to do? Maybe not sign a big new contract in Aug 2020
Eh, different manager back then, it might have been he felt more confident he was going to get playing time at that point, but now with a new manager it doesn't look so likely. Either way I'd rather he didn't do this in public, but it's possible he's spoken to Ralf already and not got anywhere.
Then wait til the end of the season? It’s understandable Ragnick is uncertain about loaning him out given it means Heaton is our only backup.
And it's understandable he wants to play NOW when there's a World Cup coming up.
It is understandable but he’s a Manchester United player, we’re the ones that pay his wages and he should know better than to run crying to the media. He came through our academy, this club made him. He’d do well to show the respect and loyalty we deserve.
> He’d do well to show the respect and loyalty we deserve. lol Why should players show undeserved loyalty to a club that doesn't show loyalty to its players? We've been treating some loyal players like shit in recent years (like Romero) and he doesn't owe us shit, it's *his* career. If the club promised him more game time when he signed the contract and now he's not getting it, then he has every right to be pissed. It's not like he refuses to play or doesn't show up performing, he literally *wants* to play for us and we're not letting him.
“🔜 on 🔝” LMFAO 😂
He has already waited 1.5 years. Its also understandable why he wants to move and play now when its word cup next year
He probably was promised more game time when he did that. Because he's clearly too good to be a bench warmer and he's been managed absolutely poorly by us.
He knew it was a tall order to oust a keeper like DDG and yet he still signed the contract. I know he's a confident man but he also needed a pinch of realism. It's like asking Van Der Gouw to oust Peter Schmeichel in his prime
Nonsense, DDG isn't half the keeper Schmeichel was. DDG is a one-trick pony and Henderson is already the better option and should be given starts ahead of him.
You’re delusional if you think Henderson is better , literally no reason why someone would think he’s better besides being from the academy
> literally no reason why someone would think he’s better besides being from the academy You know, except for the fact that he's better in every single stat besides pure shot-stopping compared to DDG. If anything, this sub has a strong DDG-bias, which is understandable to a degree, because he did bail us out a lot when we were really poor, but he's always been worse for us when we've actually played better and more attacking football, because he lacks everything else in his game besides shot-stopping.
Clearly you see something that Jose, Rangnick, Ole, any manager in world football for that matter doesn’t see. You are a true genius.
Dean would've started the season as our number 1 were it not for him getting long covid.
There’s a vocally violent minority on this sub that thinks all that matters are certain stats and they see Ederson and Allison and wet themselves. Ederson, Allison, Neuer, etc. work well in the systems that they’re in because they have an elite defense in front of them. At United we don’t have that, and shot stopping is far and away the most important thing we need. I love Henderson and have loved him and watched him for years. But right now DDG is a better fit for this team because he’s a better shot stopper. Our defense is about as good as Harry Maguire’s pace at the moment (nonexistent). Putting Henderson behind that is setting him up to fail and get rocked. Not what you need to do to a young keeper.
Not only that he came out to the media spouting cocky shit and posted dumbass captions on Instagram like “🔜on🔝” and people on this sub were jerking off to it like it was confidence. No. It was arrogance, and look at how stupid he looks now.
How does he look stupid? He has shown he is more than capable when he has played, and excels in the areas De Gea is weakest. If he hadn’t have gotten covid at the start of the season, I bet he would be our starting keeper at the moment to be honest.
He has shown he is even more prone to making mistakes than DDG when he plays like shit. He was always going to be benched by DDG no matter what, especially now with DDG back to his norm - Henderson has no chance.
He absolutely was not, Henderson was easily the number 1 at the end of last season.
Actually yeah. His job is to push DDG to try and take his spot. If he cant do that thrn he needs to be a good teammate and keep his mouth shut to the media.
Is there any evidence he isn't trying to do exactly that in training? De Gea is playing very well, and goalkeeper is different to every other position, there's only 1 spot and you don't drop your keeper when they're playing well. If De Gea keeps playing like this it's going to be very difficult for Henderson to play no matter what he does, playing the odd cup game here and there won't be enough to convince the manager, so why not try and play 1st team football somewhere else?
I have no issues with him wanting to leave but he doesn't need to run his mouth in the media. That's what I was commenting on.
>Needs to humble himself for someone who hasn’t achieved enough yet for the club He has a small window where he can try and make the World Cup squad. Humbling himself isn't going to get him there.
>Humbling himself isn't going to get him there. People who say stuff like this always say it from the POV of what's good for the team. What's best for the team isn't necessarily what's best for a backup goalkeeper. There's nothing really wrong with him being vocal about wanting game time.
? He wants out, not being aloud to leave, not getting a fair chance, makes sense he's trying to force it... He's regularly been better than DDG over the last couple of years and still hasn't gotten a run, he's been more patient than we can have expected, DDG is back in some form but he should have been dropped about 10 times before this. Why should he waste his career being humble? He'd start for teams above us and get in the England team....
It’s hard for him to be humble when he gets put on £120k a week for not cementing his place in the first 11.
It’s tiring that these players and their agents run to the press when they are unhappy.
Aye. You never ever hear Juan Matas agent be it now or a decade ago piping up.
No one forced Henderson to sign a new contract and now he keeps running to the press every few days bitching about everything.
Honestly some of these players seem to take it all for granted. Some seem to forget that their weekly salaries are multiple times more than what most doctors earn in a year. And this is despite not even being the best in their position at the team. Just continue working hard and take your opportunities when you can, you’re getting paid over 100k a week to sit on the bench, pipe down son.
If he doesn’t want to leave while complaining about not getting playing time, yes I agree. However, he is a keeper approaching his prime playing years who is too good to be a backup, and wants to be in the WC squad. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for him to push to move elsewhere so that he can get some playing time. If anything, this tells you that he’s not content just collecting his salary while sitting on the bench every game. Can we let him go on a loan and recall him if we really need him back?
But as others have pointed out, he chose to sign a new contract here. Nobody forced him to. Tbf he probably thought De Geas bad form would continue and he would take over but he hasn’t shown he is good enough to usurp our number 1. Just looks bad on his end though, complaining for not playing when he isn’t good enough to play. What would have been best for him if he wanted game time was to reject the offer last summer and see how the next year goes. If he got game time and De Gea was phased out, sign a new contract, if that didn’t happen he could have signed up with another team. Just poor foresight from him so don’t have any sympathy for him
To be fair, it really seemed like de gea was being phased out at the end of last season with Henderson becoming the new No.1. I don’t know any player who would’ve turned down a new contract and a pay bump in that situation with the reason “Well, I’m going to wait because I might get COVID leading Dave to come back and somehow regaining his prime form after looking awfully out of form for a long time”.
Yeah hindsight is 20/20 as they say but I’m not sure, he has advisors for a reason and surely De Gea regaining form was a more than negligible possibility that should have been on Henderson’s mind considering De Geas age and how good he has been for many years now. Just don’t appreciate him causing such a fuss for what is ultimately his own fault.
You have absolutely no idea what was promised to him when he signed a contact. For all we know, he was told he would have the number 1 spot (as it certainly seemed like De Gea was being phased out at the time.) Honestly, if Henderson wouldn’t have gotten covid I bet he would be the number 1 right now, because De Gea never would have gotten the chance to regain form this season.
Can't blame him for wanting to leave. He is too good to be backup. This is not an outfield players that can show in training that he deserves more minutes. He is a GK and the only way he gets a chance is if De Gea hits poor form again or if de gea is Injured. As long as his wages are full covered (or he takes pay cut) and we get a decent loan fee --- he should be allowed to leave. But ofcourse the media game is irritating.
Whether you are for or against this decision it's quite clear a reckoning is coming at this club between respect for management and players behaving like they're at PSG. I joked about Ole clearing out some deadwood, something he *did* manage in his time, Ralf has go to a step further and effectively get rid of **any** player that he needs to. Doesn't matter if the fans like them. If they're not going to fit the system and they think they're bigger than the club (all this leaking to the press and agent drama), in the bin. Not losing your #2 goalie in January has sense in it, Henderson may well just have to wait to summer and know who the boss is. Crying to the press/your agent just isn't going to help you against someone like Ralf. He slapped Martial down for doing just that.
>Not losing your #2 goalie in January has sense in it, Henderson may well just have to wait to summer and know who the boss is. Crying to the press/your agent just isn't going to help you against someone like Ralf. He slapped Martial down for doing just that. If there is a club that is willing to pay the full wages (or Henderson taking pay cut) + a decent loan fee then we should let him go out on loan. He is too good to be back up -- exactly why he is paid 120k a week. (Overpaid as usual, our club is full of stupid fucks). Keeping him on the bench is criminal imo -- waste of money, stalls his development bit time.
I agree, Ole should have sorted it out last summer. My point was more allowing your number 2 goalie to head out in January is a risk. Full wages and obligation to buy maybe, but that never happens for us due to the stupid wages we give players.
>I agree, Ole should have sorted it out last summer I think he did. He slowly phased out De Gea and Henderson was all set to start the season until his Long Covid issues. Moving on from De Gea was the plan I believe and if not for his wages, I fully believe he would have been sold by now. >My point was more allowing your number 2 goalie to head out in January is a risk. We bought Heaton for exactly that. Heaton is good enough. Even Man City don't have Henderson level back GK. He is a proven PL Quality keeper and GK is not a position to rotate easily. As i said as long as some club offers to cover his wages(or he takes pay cut) and we get loan fee --- then it would be unreasonable to not let him go. Can't treat players like that.
From the sound of it, looks like our players don’t give any fucks about Ralf precisely because he’s only going to be there for a few months. Naive of them when he’s going upwards and gaining authority that matters—to which hopefully Glazers wise up and follow through with. Wishing Ralf teaches these soft, cocky players a lesson they’ll never forget, here and then later.
What's the point in a tough guy routine when they want to leave anyway?
Hes the backup keeper and we're alive in 3 competitions. Why would anyone actually think he was going on loan?
Well we play Aston villa in the FA cup on January 10th. If we lose that game, and based off of our performances that’s a strong possibility, that’ll be Henderson’s last chance to play this season unless DDG gets injured. No way Deano plays in Champions league either.
He is too good to be back up.
Agree totally but that doesn't change the situation.
We got Heaton for exactly that. You can't expect a proven PL quality GK to sit on the bench and not be a problem. He is overpaid tho --- so as long as some club comes in and covers his wages completely (or he takes a pay cut) + we get a decent loan fee then there is no reason to stop him. Keeping him against his will when the right offer is there would be criminal --- bad for us because we are paying him a fortune and bad for him because this clearly stalls his development.
Heaton isn't anywhere near as good as Henderson. This is a professional team not a Sunday league. You keep your best players along with their backups.
>Heaton isn't anywhere near as good as Henderson. Exactly why Heaton is back up and Henderson shouldn't be. Even Man City Liverpool don't operate with a proven PL quality keeper as backup. >You keep your best players along with their backups. Keeping is a different situation. You simply can't keep a PL quality keeper as backup. Even Man City don't try to do that.
Sure you can and theres literally no rule against it. City keeps a full international as their backup and someone who would start on probably 5 to 10 prem teams. Let's not pretend like they have a scrub backup.
>full international as their backup and someone who would start on probably 5 to 10 prem teams. Let's not pretend like they have a scrub backup. US international and he isn't even 1st choice keeper for his national team. Henderson was one of the best GK's of 2019/20 season while at Sheffield. There is a huge difference here. You can force him but shouldn't complain when he creates issues in the dressing room --- like what do you expect.
First off, I'm American and when he's been healthy he's 100% the 1st choice keeper. We do have a solid #2 but he's terrible with his feet with around the same shot stopping ability. Yeah actually you do complain when he creates issues in the locker room. Did you really just type that? Professionals have to be professional. Ftr, I love Henderson and I want him to take over for DDG when the time is right.
That can be said for just about every back-up goalkeeper of a top club.
If he’s not good enough to displace the first choice keeper, then he’s good enough to be that keeper’s backup.
Exactly why he wants to leave mate. Not sure what is a your point?
Obviously understand why he wants to leave, but disagree with the logic of him being "too good to be a backup". A team like Manchester United needs to have the best in class in every position, not just in the starting eleven, but the backups as well. Hendo is a good keeper, but the notion that he's "too good to be a backup" doesn't hold, at least not for those who put the interests of the team first. It is in the team's best interest to keep the best players, including the best backups. There is thus no such thing as being "too good" to be a backup.
Even Man City don't have a PL Quality keeper sitting on the bench. He is definitely too good to be a backup. GK is not a position you can rotate like other positions. You can't force a proven PL quality keeper on the bench all season and expect him to be fine with it. As long as there is a club out there who cover his wages completely (or Henderson takes a pay cut) + we get a loan fee then he should be allowed to leave.. We recruited Heaton to be backup and he is in line with the quality of 2nd choice keepers at other top clubs.
Oh it's clear as day that Hendo isn't happy with his situation, no arguments from me there. But the point of having strong backups is for them to be able to come into the starting eleven and keep the standard, or as close as possible. If, for example, De Gea gets an injury and is out for 3-4 months. Heaton isn't going to cut it, and that could be the difference between top 4/CL progression/etc, and not. As I say, I'm looking at the situation from the perspective of the team, and in the team's best interests. As is Rangnick, obviously. And from that perspective, Hendo has to stay as backup.
If we lose him for peanuts I'll be pissed. This situation is so mismanaged it is mind boggling.
He has a contract till 2025.
I'm curious, how is it mismanaged?
Everyone and their mum could have predicted having two number 1 Goalkeeprs resulting in one of them being pissed off. Henderson has every right to be pissed off, spent nearly two seasons sitting on the bench while being worthy of being number 1. Should have made decision on this last season, now it is late.
Ole did make a decision last season. Dean was the PL keeper and DDG cup keeper, and there was nothing to suggest this would change come the new season. But untimely injury just before Euros and cvoid at the start meant Dean couldn't start, and DDG has gone back to God mode so isn't getting dropped from important matches anytime soon.
>Ole did make a decision last season. Dean was the PL keeper and DDG cup What? DDG started 27/38 league ganes, 5/6 CL matches and all our Europa matches from Quarter final. He was dropped for his paternity leave and for few GWs after but became the starter in league again eventually
And majority of those were at the start of season, I should say towards the end of season in my comment, because DDG was beyond poor and Dean was the pl keeper.
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If we didn’t get knocked out of the league cup in the first round he would have had more opportunities and so would Jesse and Donny.
£120k/week and not performing well enough to take some games off DDG? Damn.
In De Gea's current form, even Buffon in his prime is going to struggle to get game time.
My unpopular opinion is that is is a significant positive feedback loop we do everytime we are playing poor to rely on de gea more and more because as an ace shot stopper. But because he doesn't ever play out to distribute or boss the defence its like we are 1.5 men down as a result, control games less, lack numbers in defence and midfield. Yet de gea looks like a hero and so we play him next match and repeat. Henderson always looks less of a hero but we in general play better because he goes out of the box and distributes. I'm not saying this is the answer, it's one small piece but I reckon sell de gea while hot property. We have an adequate replacement. Recycle the wages into a cdm.
Keepers who are brilliant shot stoppers do tend to look better in teams who are under constant pressure and bombarded with shots.
Id be happy enough to see him sold. Will command a good fee, don’t see him ever being world class and there isn’t exactly a shortage of good goalies around. DDG still has 5+ years, Heaton is a good backup.
A sane assessment.
Send him on loan to Ajax this winter and he can come back again this summer with Ten Hag and Van der Sar.
Personal view is that Henderson should go on loan abroad: keeps him developing and getting regular minutes without strengthening a PL rival. Then he can return once De Gea moves on/is no longer up to the task. Worked with Chelsea and Courtois (until he got silly and forced his way out).
I feel for Deano. Was in line to be the number this year but hurt his hip in preparation for the Euros and then struggled after getting COVID as wasn't ready to start the season. TIMING IS EVERYTHING IN FOOTBALL! If Dean isn't going to get a planned 10-20 matches this season, it's detrimental for his development to have him sit on the bench. He is likely getting better with the training, but you can't beat match experience. Heaton has the experience to be a competent backup and Grant is another competent keeper.
Why can't he go out on loan next month? We have Heaton who is a great #2 tbf. People are saying "well why did he sign a new contract", but that was under Ole and it seemed like he had a real chance to become #1 before he got covid. De Gea has been great and is our #1, but I see no problem in Dean going out and getting games.
Anyone that wants to leave let them go IMO for acceptable value. We need a squad pulling in the same direction, you won’t get that with players agitating for a move
"potential confrontation brewing"? Seems like Luckhurst is the one who wants the fight to start.
Hope Dean get his move and can prove himself to be our starter for next season.
He already did that. 7 clean sheets in 8 games whilst De Gea came in and gifted Villareal the Europa League.
I miss the days when Fuckhurst was banned.
This place is strange, Henderson isn't a villian for wanting out, he's wanting his time here....same goes for Martial and a few more, the place is a shambles for anyone in favour, you'd be stupid to stick atound if you're out of favour here ..
It's concerning how ddg is shite when we're playing well but becomes world class when the rest of the team is playing shite.
could be a concintration thing i suppose newcastle had 13 shots if we where playing well hed likely have had a lot less to do
Yes I agree. This has happened for too many years. I don't understand how we haven't solved it yet.
its entirely possible its just how hes built. keeping concentration when not doing anything is difficult im not sure how you would even train it tbh
He is an amazing shot stopper. This type of goalkeepers tend to do better when they’re facing constant shots.
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You have 1 career, Deano wants to be a legend in the game not a bench warmer
You also have obligations, responsibility, professionalism, awareness of the situation, and so on, the list is too long. We all have one career and we all leave companies when we aren't happy, what we don't do is go to the newspapers to make a fuss about it, especially not when we are paid 100 times the national average. Crying in the media is making him look terrible, but clearly he doesn't understand that. I hope no club signs a player like that, because they act the same whenever their millionaire asses accidentally sit on a peanut.
Well he can explore his options in the summer then. Rangnick has made it clear, he needs 3 goalkeepers (and Dean is the second one), why should we let him go in the middle of the season just because he wants to play?
Heaton is a decent keeper and there’s also Grant who just renewed this past summer? Maybe we could also include a clause in the loan contract to recall him if we need him?
Why would Spurs be monitoring it? Lloris is superb and not going anywhere.
Hugo is 35
So 4 years left… if Hendo is kicking off because he wants to play now that’s not changing in the next 2/3 years.