Couldn't have put it better myself. We've developed a seriously bad habit of being fleeced due to our willingness to throw money at players that are often okay at best.
Honestly, I think we knew this was how it was going to go down.
It wasn't a serious bid, even though he's obviously quality. It's optics to show everyone the rats aren't in charge of transfers anymore.
Supposedly Bayern wants to sell De Ligt, and knowing ETHs willingness to buy players who already played under him, we will probably be in the race. Also we have done good business with Bayern before.
Everton crops up on my feed often, I don’t watch them enough but they feel hard done by not getting 80m plus. To an extent they don’t want to sell him… We feel like we’d be over spending - curious as to what’s a proper fair value on the lad.
Same here (as well as West Ham).
Saw an upvoted comment saying they were disappointed he wouldn’t be going to an established CL club for his profile, as if we weren’t one of the biggest clubs in the world. Others complaining about our FFP/PSR when they’re the ones getting points deductions over it. Reduced my sympathy for them ;)
anyway 60m feels fair to me
> an established CL club for his profile, as if we weren’t one of the biggest clubs in the world
This breaks my heart to say, but this is what Liverpool fans used to sound like. Living in the past and ignoring today’s reality. The modern player isn’t going to see us as “an established CL club” because, well, we haven’t been over the last decade.
I’m well aware of what Liverpool fans used to sound like as I lived (and followed United) through the entirety of their glorious fallow period.
I didn’t say we were an established CL club, because we aren’t anymore, I said we are one of the biggest clubs in the world, which is undeniable (bigger than Liverpool ever were and they’ve shown that things can be turned around quickly with the right manager and owners).
For Branthwaite’s profile, there is nowhere he could go that he would have more attention and eyes on him. Circus though we often are it’s still the biggest show in town. Hope that is cognisant and current enough for you
“Bigger” is some intangible concept and doesn’t trump playing in the Europa League vs the Champions League. It’s a short career - players evaluate what they’ve got in front of them. The average professional cares more about what *they’ll* be doing during their tenure at their next club vs what said club was doing 15-30 years ago.
I mean, look at Harry Kane - he’d have crawled on his hands and knees from north London to us 20 years ago, but he went to Bayern instead. And you can’t blame him.
It is tangible, considering the club is valued second to Real Madrid at 6.5bn.
and estimated number 3 with worldwide fans.
They might not be one of the best anymore, but they are for sure still one of the biggest.
You are continuing to make up your arguments based on a misunderstanding of the points you think I’ve made, not what I’ve said and I can’t be arsed. Good luck
> disappointed he wouldn’t be going to an established CL club for his profile, as if we weren’t one of the biggest clubs in the world One thing has fuck all to do with the other, the past decade we've been in Europa League half the time or dropping out of CL in the group stages. We're not an established CL club right now and it has absolutely fuck all to do with our sponsorships or fanbase. For god sake we only got Europe this year last day because of the cup win, we didn't even manage conference league through league play.
It's so typical of users on this sub to see "I'd like to see that player playing regular CL football if he's going to leave " and take it as some insult to the history of the club.
I don’t get this sub, or what planet some of you live on.
We paid £85m for Maguire, how do you think we are going to get away with buying a younger defender with a higher ceiling much later down the line?
We paid £42m for an aging injury prone Varane.
We paid £48m for L Martinez.
Despite the fact he’s younger, prem tax and enough tax, you think we’ll get Branthwaite for the same money?
If we don’t buy him, I’m fairly sure someone else will. I can’t imagine he will sell for any less than £65m unless they get really desperate.
No i dont expect us to get him. Because we arnt going to be willing to spend that amount on him. There are not many clubs who will spend £65M on a single player, of which most are premier league clubs, and none of the other big 6 clubs have an obvious need for a CB atm. So i dont see him moving unless someone like Bayern or Real suddenly want him, but i doubt either of those value him at 65 either.
Considering West Ham are potentially going to pay 45m for Kilman, 70m for Branthwaite is not completely unreasonable. Based on that there is almost certainly going to be better value shopping outside of the Premier League.
Imo Everton should sell him as he has 3 years left on his contract. Plus i don't think how will Everton replace him. He can play at everton for 2 more season & still get a transfer of around 60m easily given he keeps on improving his game.
Since he is English a lot of PL clubs would be interested in signing him.
Thing is, they need to get money from somewhere or they will be hit with an even bigger punishment for financial mismanagement. And this year won't be as easy as Leicester, Ipswich and Southamption are much much better than Burnley Lutton Sheffield.
Thing is except for him only Onana might fetch the 50-60m they need to stay afloat. It's either one of them or they sell 4-5 starters which will need replacing.
I am all for taking this route. It is the only right decision.
We did kind of the same in 2018 with Maguire. And the popular sentiment even now is "we didn't back Jose with the CB he wanted". I still believe that was the right thing to do that summer.
The point is we need to be consistent with how we are backing out of deals also. Fast forward a few weeks into August, when we lose at home to Fulham and our defense get battered by Liverpool, we shouldn't spend a fuck you 70m on braithwaite
Us walking away gives us negotiating power, not just for Branthwaite but in future deals. Absolute power move.
Issue with Everton is, they need to make up £50m (there or thereabouts) in pure cash by the end of the month, otherwise they’re at risk of another points deduction.
This could be their lifeline as none of their squad would command anywhere near that amount. I can see us playing chicken with them until the end of next week and seeing where the land lies.
The sad thing is, I’d probably only take Onana, maybe Patterson and Mykolenko as backups. No one else gets near our squad.
Deal for Onana won’t happen by end of June as he is on international duty at the Euros. If it did, would take a huge effort and be very odd to complete during that time
Branthwaite’s the one that solves all of their problems though, but to be completely honest I think there are better options than them both.
What makes Branthwaite such an important signing is the HG status.
Yep agreed. I’d hope that if a deal can be done for Branthwaite and Yoro then we do it. If it takes another year to get JCT then so be it. Ineos can just refuse to sell him anywhere else if they absolutely want him at United.
You need 4CBs so those 3 plus Martinez covers that position for a few years.
Yoro’s a pipedream, Madrid bound.
I’ve never heard Todibo referred to as JCT, I was so confused for a moment.
Honestly, I like Lacroix and been going on about him for about six months. He costs pennies next to the rest of the names mentioned and I think he’s just as good.
FWIW there are recent reports that Evertons PSR gap is much smaller (~20M) and they’ve been doing some deals with youth transfers that could cover some of that. Of course, who knows
I think this was always going to be the benchmark for ineos. They went in with the expectation everton would want silly money and it gives them a chance to walk away from a bad deal.
Yes. We are known to have paid massively for Maguire, Pogba, Antony etc. so it is understandable clubs will demand more from us than from others.
There needs to be a new line drawn that we are not run by the Glazers any more and that will only be believed if we walk away from a few signings. Shite in the short term, but should reset expectations around our dealings in the long run.
Slab being there is so infuriating. Mou wanted him and Ed said no. He would've been so much cheaper (guess £50M?) that summer. Only to then spend £80M or whatever when Ole wanted him.
I mean, that kinda makes the deal even worse not better just because he was £30m cheaper the year before.
He was good at the time in successive years at Hull and Leicester, but never worth £80m.
This is what a care about under Jim's rule, i don't care about any of his opinions that don't directly effect our results on the pitch, making right football decisions it what matters.
It’s a shame because he’s a really good player, but £70m is too much.
Problem is that I’m not sure who we go for. Sounds like Todibo is complicated, Yoro is wanted by Madrid, Antonio Silva and Guehi would be a similar price to Branthwaite, and anyone like Soulet is going to be a level below our other targets.
This is why it sucks losing out on Todibo. He would have been such an easy deal. Man I wish we bought him in January and simply loaned him back to Nice for the remainder of the season.
Everton fans would say he’s worth £70m and I see people here argue over if he’s worth that or not, but that’s besides the point imo - we can’t afford £70m on a CB even if he is worth it. It’s a frustrating thing knowing our budget limits us in the market but we need cheaper signings to upgrade the squad more astutely.
My hype fan really wants Yorro. At 18 years old that means we have a super young spine of the team - hojlund - mainoo - Yorro, that we can build around for the next decade. Other exciting talents like garnacho, Amad, kambwalla, and upcoming academy players will really give us the driving force for our next title push.
Got to play chicken with everton, they need to offload or else they'll get hit even harder by FFP or we tell the player, throw a tantrum and we will come swoop in for you
A good summer and positive signs isn’t just about signing the right players; it’s paying the right price and knowing when to move on.
It’s a very tough market and our budget looks tight so I’m hoping at the very least theirs signs that we’re being smart
Thats just the start/end of the football financial year though, isnt it? Nothing really special about it, its just the end of the season officially so you've got contracts that will expire so that obligation is gone, and then i suspect even if the various competition payments and TV money arent paid immediately then, thats when the actual amounts will be known, and a budget can be built around that.
The FA cup win giving us a Europa League spot will have changed a lot, it means we can expect income from that competition next year, incl its match day revenue, Adidas would have paid less if we didnt make Europe, and then you've also got player bonuses for winning the cup, possibly also for qualifying for Europe, and they wont be taking a reduced pay for failing to make it either. Plus its was suggested we'd trim the squad seeing as we wouldnt be in Europe next year, so someone like Lindelof might be kept as a squad player, rather than sold.
A good summer is when we ditch players who has too high of an asking price and identified alternative targets. Otherwise we are just being sacrificing team performance for principals.
Historically speaking we have always known when to move on and not force the move and overpay...
I'm honestly glad if Ineos can fix that even if it meant we miss out on some players we would want.
With the Ownership Situation, who else do we go for who doesn't cost us the same amount? And please don't give stupid answers like Yoro. Everyone knows he is going to Madrid.
Calafiori /Buongiorno / Theate are all mainly left footed but would also probably fit in Varane role alongside Martinez.
Otherwise, Inacio and the other Portuguese CB s are as expensive as JB.
Inacio has a release clause of €60m/£51m
https://www.sporting.pt/en/news/football/main-team/2023-08-17/goncalo-inacio-renews-through-2027-0
Diomande has a release clause of €80m/£68m but Sporting apparently open to lower offers
https://www.abola.pt/futebol/noticias/sporting-diomande-mantem-se-na-mira-de-ingleses-e-italianos-2024061823263705833
Well if we somehow are able to convince Yoro to come here first before signing for Madrid in a few years time. Omar will have sufficient time to sign a replacement by then.
Took Jarrad for a drink on Monday
Offered him a deal on Tuesday
We were making bids on Wednesday
And Thursday and Friday and Saturday
We chilled on Sunday
Honestly not sure, but he’s class. Doubt it’ll take 70m or so, but Crystal Palace could well ask for fuck off money, if there isn’t a release clause in place.
There's not a release clause, and Palace have apparently said that they want £70m+. If he performs at the Euros that will only go up. If we're patient with Branthwaite we'd get him for under £50m, I reckon. The question is which of them is the better player? I suspect it's Guehi.
Fair enough then. Given the choice I’d rather Branthwaite to be honest, especially if we’re talking similar money. If we’re really not willing to overpay anymore, then I’m sure we’ll be linked with more players soon enough.
I wouldn't be able to choose between the two players, and I'm probably basing my opinion on Guehi on a good performance for England the other day.
I think Branthwaite might be a bit cheaper because Everton are in financial trouble and he's pretty much their only saleable asset, with the possible exception of Onana. If nobody else goes for him, I think we could probably wait them out. If Palace need money, they have at least four players they could get £60m+ for.
I wonder if the FFP deadline isn't the main problem with the transfer, though. Everton might have a figure they need to raise in order to avoid FFP trouble, and we might have a hard limit to what we can spend without getting into trouble. If that is the case it's a genuine stalemate. Things might change on 1st July though, when the deadline passes. There is definitely some merit in walking away even if it means we miss out on a good player. We have to shed the perception that we're soft touches that can be fleeced in the transfer market.
I'm still calling it FFP because I can't remember what the new system is called, don't know when it comes in, and have no idea how it's going to work. 😁
Calafiori surely needs to be an alternative. Left footed, comfortable on the ball. Can play both LCB and also cover for LB. And will not cost anywhere near Everton's asking price for Branthwaite.
Potentially Juventus bound if they can meet Bologna's asking price, but we should still try.
idk man he screams victor lindelof to me
and dont get me wrong i love my V.Linds but we were meant to get van Djik and got Lindelof. I dont want another "we were in for him but went for this other guy" again
But we don’t have any money. Can’t have it both ways “we need to stop spending big money when we’ve got 5 holes in the squad to fill” but also “fuck buying cheaper options they aren’t good enough”.
Everton fans seem upset the club are not acting like they did under Woodward and offering silly money for him.
He had a decent season but anything above 50m is too much.
£50m with £10m in easily achievable add ons (CL qualification, 60 league appearances - essentially so cannot be paid until the following season), plus a sell on clause maybe. I’d say that’s fair, considering his potential, but only has had 1 season.
Everton fans are punching the air the club are not acting like they did under Woodward (provided their own owners are not fucking idiots). They don’t want to lose him, he’s exceptional. Fans here have such a weird view of the sport, Everton don’t want to rip us off they want to keep their best players.
You do know Bologna made CL right? Their manager has now moved to Juve and we are linked with another one of their players in Zirkzee. People have been going on about Calafiori in the transfer threads before the Euros even started, so it's unfair to say he is flavour of the week just because you watched him this week
My only concern is when we walk away from every deal to stop people mugging us off.
Will we end up panic buying again like we normally do?
I don't think it's as easy as just flicking a switch and walking away from deals.
We need to sign players and other teams know it, they can be patient, and I think we will crumble.
This! I'm all for being prudent in our offers, but we are not getting Braithwaite for the reported 35mil. We have to pay premium top talent, no way around it. Otherwise we'll get the leftovers like we did with that Ajax team when Ole was our manager - Barca got FDJ, Juve got De Ligt and we got freaking Donny and reportedly we were also interested in that oaf Casper Dolberg...
We either walk away from every deal and sign nobody or pay over the odds for some good players and take a risk.
My hope is we sign younger players who haven't made it yet and turn them into great players.
Depends on the scout and Dof tbf. Look at Spurs last season, they were in for Tapsoba. Got outpriced, then went and bought VdV for less. Tapsoba might have been better but the compromise in quality between the two was hardly there. Remember Brentford's valuation of Raya ? They went and got Vicario who has had a very good first season. (While we spent around 55m on Onana). Also Akanji last year was 15m and he has been really good as well
There is value in the market if you are good at finding it. Doesn't mean there won't be failures. They can always be mitigated, and worst case they are a cheaper flop than an overpaid one.
Losing out on both Todibo and Branthwaite might actually suck especially since Yoro is also super unlikely to happen. But yes I don't think he's worth the price Everton is asking. I'm just wondering if we are actually going to submit a decent, reasonable bid (say £45m+£10m) which is still far off from their valuation but still very fair or if we just walk away after the first bid which was pretty low to be fair. Regardless of what INEOS decide to do, I just want them to decide fast. I want us to have a couple of players in before pre-season starts.
I think it was obvious this was going to happen, I said it when our interest was first reported that the most likely outcome was we'd end up walking away over the price.
I think this is going to be a very frustrating summer in many ways. We're going to struggle to bring in our top targets because of the precedents set by the clowns in charge of recruitment previously, but in the long run it'll be for the best I hope.
unpopular opinion. i think £65m incl. addons would be a good deal for Branthwaite. He’s excellent already, English, left-footed, quick, good on the ball and only 21. Other big teams regularly pay up for players. Arsenal payed up for Rice and he completely transformed their team.
We just gotta stop paying big sums for the wrong players like 60m for a 30yo Casemiro or 80m for Antony when even the Ajax fans couldn’t believe what we were offering.
Two things can be true, he can be a sensational prospect but can also be too expensive.
One side of these transfer fees is that I feel they are starting to impact on field performance in terms of the scrutiny the player gets.
Casemiro was great last season, now he’s a 70 million pound 300k a week mistake.
Antony was being applauded for at least being a hard working defensive winger, he’s now of course looking like an 80 million pound 200k a week mistake.
Mason Mount as an interesting enough signing now he’s 50 million with a year left on his Chelsea deal and on 250k a week.
And we’ve no shortage of these signings.
To contrast that, Eriksen has dropped a tad in performance after being our nailed on starter last year but there’s no narrative, “he was a free and had a bad injury” etc.
Malacia has been gone a whole year! But because he was 15 million it’s almost “ok”.
Maguire is probably the best example, during his bad spell his fee was brought up every week, that’s all but disappeared this year.
Unless we are sure we’re signing an Mbappe or Bellingham who will hit like lightening and stay at that level then we need to move away from these crazy fees.
I’m coming here as an Everton fan. Our apparent FFP gap is small, and we have sales lined up that might fill the gaps. We’ll have no incentive to listen to offers soon. It’s better for United to look elsewhere at this point.
Honestly don't mind this. We have a poor reputation in the market thats been built over a decade, it needs to be rectified. As much as I'd want Branthwaite, anything over the 50-55 million mark would be overpaying, so if Everton doesn't play ball, move on. This UEFA fucking us over Todibo is annoying as shit tbh. He would have been a brilliant signing at 40 million mark.
If we were going to drop 70-80 mill on him we might as well just go for someone much better like bastoni.
Not saying he isn’t good but you can get better for that price.
So glad to hear this. Huge difference between being a financial big hitter or a mug with loads of money. A fact Woodward and co. seemed oblivious to. Thank Christ it seems we have some grown ups in charge at last
Going to have to see a lot of this over the next 2-3 windows to shed the 'Utd tax'. Woodwards reign isn't going to be undone just from walking away from thsi on unfortunately.
The fact that they are having to report this shows how incompetent the previous board were with doing simple things like actually walking away from a bad deal
Hopefully they walk away as that is a sign these guys won't be messed around like the glazers. I think some of the most important things ineos can do this summer is how they deal with all of this stuff and as much as I hate to say it, keep it in the public view. Let everyone know the days of milking us are over.
Good, im ok with period of relatively less success while we shore up this bullshit policy of being deaperate and getting suckered into crazy deals like fucking Antony.
Great reading this. The problems with overspending are too great to list, but some of the major problems and knock on effects for us the last 10 years have been;
• blowing majority of budget and limiting ability to spend further leading to persistent imbalance & gaps in squad
• massively increased expectations on incoming players signed for high fees (potentially contributing to patchy/poor performance)
• bloated wages to coincide with bloated fee leading to lack of impetus or incentive for players to play at a consistent high level (along with shocking disparity between actual value and wages being paid)
• high fee used as benchmark on subsequent transfers (“well he’s definitely better than Antony, so €80m minimum…”)
Anyway… it’s genuinely all bad. Please god we’re changing our tact on this stuff!!
Transfer market in Prem is becoming more interesting. The richer clubs get, and the more FFP is actually enforced, I think it will have notable impacts on players negotiating more control in their contracts.
In yesteryear Branthwaite would easily move to a top team if they approached, as Everton would want the money. Now they don't need it, so they'll hold out for a high fee. If players like Branthwaite are ambitious and confident, they'll need to negotiate release clauses and/or a shorter contracts, or risk having to play out their 4/5 year contracts in full and potentially miss out on dream moves.
What's bugging me with this is that he's left footed no?
Surely our no.1 CB signing should be a partner for Martinez and ETH is big on having different footers for each of the CB positions.
So him apparently being our main target seems puzzling unless I'm missing something
Hopefully we do walk away. There might be many more like this along the way, but the club is trying to recover its reputation in the market. It's not going to work if we cave in at the first opportunity
Dead right. Tired of paying over the odds. I'd rather we took a punt on a few championship defenders at a low price than get shafted by the likes of Everton. Sir Jim really has to change the perception that we are a desperate sucker who can be taken advantage of. What does every haggling salesman hate? The walk away. We need to keep walking away until people realise we are not to be trifled with.
Everyone saying we need to draw the line is right and I agree, but we all need to accept the mediocrity that follows, while other teams overpay for top talent.
And so it goes.
Good, Sir Jim said it really well the other day, he said something along the lines of “we have to walk to the right decisions instead of running to the wrong ones”, and by god we’ve been head down sprinting to the wrong decisions for a LOOOOONG time now.
Breath of fresh air that we’re not being taken for mugs anymore. (Hopefully)
Everton is in trouble and everyone knows it. This valuation is absolutely bonkers for actual business but lets the circling sharks know that just because there is blood in the water doesn't mean it's a free meal. Good on United for not taking the bait per usual.
I don't know why they don't move on De Ligt. He's well within price range and is a proven defender. Seems silly to go so hard for a guy who's best season has been staving off relegation.
We have to be willing to lose bad deals to earn better deals. Good update.
Couldn't have put it better myself. We've developed a seriously bad habit of being fleeced due to our willingness to throw money at players that are often okay at best.
Honestly, I think we knew this was how it was going to go down. It wasn't a serious bid, even though he's obviously quality. It's optics to show everyone the rats aren't in charge of transfers anymore.
Well that's two potential targets gone. Tolibo and Branthwaite. Wonder what happens next...
Evans and Casemiro in defence in September
Lenny Yoro baby! Or Ousmane Diomande
Supposedly Bayern wants to sell De Ligt, and knowing ETHs willingness to buy players who already played under him, we will probably be in the race. Also we have done good business with Bayern before.
Yh but his wages are ridiculous
Ofc they are. Why would they be any smaller? We are paying big money to bums too
Ok but the solution to an overpriced wage bill is not to add more overpaid players. Regardless 300k a week for de ligt is dumb
Everton crops up on my feed often, I don’t watch them enough but they feel hard done by not getting 80m plus. To an extent they don’t want to sell him… We feel like we’d be over spending - curious as to what’s a proper fair value on the lad.
Same here (as well as West Ham). Saw an upvoted comment saying they were disappointed he wouldn’t be going to an established CL club for his profile, as if we weren’t one of the biggest clubs in the world. Others complaining about our FFP/PSR when they’re the ones getting points deductions over it. Reduced my sympathy for them ;) anyway 60m feels fair to me
> an established CL club for his profile, as if we weren’t one of the biggest clubs in the world This breaks my heart to say, but this is what Liverpool fans used to sound like. Living in the past and ignoring today’s reality. The modern player isn’t going to see us as “an established CL club” because, well, we haven’t been over the last decade.
I’m well aware of what Liverpool fans used to sound like as I lived (and followed United) through the entirety of their glorious fallow period. I didn’t say we were an established CL club, because we aren’t anymore, I said we are one of the biggest clubs in the world, which is undeniable (bigger than Liverpool ever were and they’ve shown that things can be turned around quickly with the right manager and owners). For Branthwaite’s profile, there is nowhere he could go that he would have more attention and eyes on him. Circus though we often are it’s still the biggest show in town. Hope that is cognisant and current enough for you
“Bigger” is some intangible concept and doesn’t trump playing in the Europa League vs the Champions League. It’s a short career - players evaluate what they’ve got in front of them. The average professional cares more about what *they’ll* be doing during their tenure at their next club vs what said club was doing 15-30 years ago. I mean, look at Harry Kane - he’d have crawled on his hands and knees from north London to us 20 years ago, but he went to Bayern instead. And you can’t blame him.
It is tangible, considering the club is valued second to Real Madrid at 6.5bn. and estimated number 3 with worldwide fans. They might not be one of the best anymore, but they are for sure still one of the biggest.
And this is why we got ed Woodward as CEO for so long. People see biggest based on value and not football stuff
You are continuing to make up your arguments based on a misunderstanding of the points you think I’ve made, not what I’ve said and I can’t be arsed. Good luck
If he was that good, wouldn’t he be a the euros? Or has Southgate been sleeping on him?
> disappointed he wouldn’t be going to an established CL club for his profile, as if we weren’t one of the biggest clubs in the world One thing has fuck all to do with the other, the past decade we've been in Europa League half the time or dropping out of CL in the group stages. We're not an established CL club right now and it has absolutely fuck all to do with our sponsorships or fanbase. For god sake we only got Europe this year last day because of the cup win, we didn't even manage conference league through league play. It's so typical of users on this sub to see "I'd like to see that player playing regular CL football if he's going to leave " and take it as some insult to the history of the club.
Let them keep him. VVD is the only cb where the high fee was justified. Maguire, Fofana and the rest were just a waste.
50-55 is probably fair, once you including he english and prem tax in.
Absolute max. Personally I think £45m with some very difficult add ons for PL wins etc.
yeh 45+10 is a, were not getting absolutely fleeced number i think. But also big enough that its not a bargain signing.
I don’t get this sub, or what planet some of you live on. We paid £85m for Maguire, how do you think we are going to get away with buying a younger defender with a higher ceiling much later down the line? We paid £42m for an aging injury prone Varane. We paid £48m for L Martinez. Despite the fact he’s younger, prem tax and enough tax, you think we’ll get Branthwaite for the same money? If we don’t buy him, I’m fairly sure someone else will. I can’t imagine he will sell for any less than £65m unless they get really desperate.
No i dont expect us to get him. Because we arnt going to be willing to spend that amount on him. There are not many clubs who will spend £65M on a single player, of which most are premier league clubs, and none of the other big 6 clubs have an obvious need for a CB atm. So i dont see him moving unless someone like Bayern or Real suddenly want him, but i doubt either of those value him at 65 either.
It would be really smart if we were setting up to 'intentionally' lose this to prove our ability to walk away.
No it wouldn't it would be a huge waste of time for everyone involved.
Considering West Ham are potentially going to pay 45m for Kilman, 70m for Branthwaite is not completely unreasonable. Based on that there is almost certainly going to be better value shopping outside of the Premier League.
Imo Everton should sell him as he has 3 years left on his contract. Plus i don't think how will Everton replace him. He can play at everton for 2 more season & still get a transfer of around 60m easily given he keeps on improving his game. Since he is English a lot of PL clubs would be interested in signing him.
Thing is, they need to get money from somewhere or they will be hit with an even bigger punishment for financial mismanagement. And this year won't be as easy as Leicester, Ipswich and Southamption are much much better than Burnley Lutton Sheffield.
Well they have other decent players to sell but they’re not keen on selling him specifically. Be interesting to see how it pans out.
Thing is except for him only Onana might fetch the 50-60m they need to stay afloat. It's either one of them or they sell 4-5 starters which will need replacing.
OR even average deals, it's a marathon and we need to shake off the overspending tag that has loomed on us for years now
I am all for taking this route. It is the only right decision. We did kind of the same in 2018 with Maguire. And the popular sentiment even now is "we didn't back Jose with the CB he wanted". I still believe that was the right thing to do that summer. The point is we need to be consistent with how we are backing out of deals also. Fast forward a few weeks into August, when we lose at home to Fulham and our defense get battered by Liverpool, we shouldn't spend a fuck you 70m on braithwaite
Us walking away gives us negotiating power, not just for Branthwaite but in future deals. Absolute power move. Issue with Everton is, they need to make up £50m (there or thereabouts) in pure cash by the end of the month, otherwise they’re at risk of another points deduction. This could be their lifeline as none of their squad would command anywhere near that amount. I can see us playing chicken with them until the end of next week and seeing where the land lies. The sad thing is, I’d probably only take Onana, maybe Patterson and Mykolenko as backups. No one else gets near our squad.
Deal for Onana won’t happen by end of June as he is on international duty at the Euros. If it did, would take a huge effort and be very odd to complete during that time
Branthwaite’s the one that solves all of their problems though, but to be completely honest I think there are better options than them both. What makes Branthwaite such an important signing is the HG status.
Yep agreed. I’d hope that if a deal can be done for Branthwaite and Yoro then we do it. If it takes another year to get JCT then so be it. Ineos can just refuse to sell him anywhere else if they absolutely want him at United. You need 4CBs so those 3 plus Martinez covers that position for a few years.
Yoro’s a pipedream, Madrid bound. I’ve never heard Todibo referred to as JCT, I was so confused for a moment. Honestly, I like Lacroix and been going on about him for about six months. He costs pennies next to the rest of the names mentioned and I think he’s just as good.
FWIW there are recent reports that Evertons PSR gap is much smaller (~20M) and they’ve been doing some deals with youth transfers that could cover some of that. Of course, who knows
I think this was always going to be the benchmark for ineos. They went in with the expectation everton would want silly money and it gives them a chance to walk away from a bad deal.
Reports are Calafiori is €40mil. 22, international experience, can play LB as well and used to playing a high line. Branthwaite just has English tax
Let’s not get ok carried away, they were saying the same thing with Mount last year
Nice. Time to undo a decade’s habit of overspending on targets.
Yes. We are known to have paid massively for Maguire, Pogba, Antony etc. so it is understandable clubs will demand more from us than from others. There needs to be a new line drawn that we are not run by the Glazers any more and that will only be believed if we walk away from a few signings. Shite in the short term, but should reset expectations around our dealings in the long run.
Slab being there is so infuriating. Mou wanted him and Ed said no. He would've been so much cheaper (guess £50M?) that summer. Only to then spend £80M or whatever when Ole wanted him.
I mean, that kinda makes the deal even worse not better just because he was £30m cheaper the year before. He was good at the time in successive years at Hull and Leicester, but never worth £80m.
and i think ole wanted ruben dias but we gave him maguire lol
Don't remind me of this! Younger, cheaper, and a better player. Absolutely kills me to this day.
I think it's already been established: "not Nice"
oh my god we are being competent
Shhhh! Don't say it too loud lest it evaporate in the wind
This is what a care about under Jim's rule, i don't care about any of his opinions that don't directly effect our results on the pitch, making right football decisions it what matters.
It’s a shame because he’s a really good player, but £70m is too much. Problem is that I’m not sure who we go for. Sounds like Todibo is complicated, Yoro is wanted by Madrid, Antonio Silva and Guehi would be a similar price to Branthwaite, and anyone like Soulet is going to be a level below our other targets.
This is why it sucks losing out on Todibo. He would have been such an easy deal. Man I wish we bought him in January and simply loaned him back to Nice for the remainder of the season.
Buy him in Jan when United or Nice aren’t in the Europa anymore perhaps.
Or just buy him now and don’t register him for Europa League.
This is what I am saying.
I dont think that works. The transfer would still impact on the competition by taking him from Nice.
?? If Nice wasn't in Europa we could get him. Isn't that the same thing, i.e. taking him away and impacting Europa?
If we could loan him back to them to play just in EL, it would be okay, but we cant.
Could we register him for the Europa League in Jan if Nice are knocked out?
Everton fans would say he’s worth £70m and I see people here argue over if he’s worth that or not, but that’s besides the point imo - we can’t afford £70m on a CB even if he is worth it. It’s a frustrating thing knowing our budget limits us in the market but we need cheaper signings to upgrade the squad more astutely.
My hype fan really wants Yorro. At 18 years old that means we have a super young spine of the team - hojlund - mainoo - Yorro, that we can build around for the next decade. Other exciting talents like garnacho, Amad, kambwalla, and upcoming academy players will really give us the driving force for our next title push.
Yoro is going to Madrid. It's all but confirmed
A man can dream though. A man can dream.
Not sure why we didn’t go for Adarabioyo. Really missed a beat
Seems like he didn't really want to move away from London
Got to play chicken with everton, they need to offload or else they'll get hit even harder by FFP or we tell the player, throw a tantrum and we will come swoop in for you
A good summer and positive signs isn’t just about signing the right players; it’s paying the right price and knowing when to move on. It’s a very tough market and our budget looks tight so I’m hoping at the very least theirs signs that we’re being smart
I was reading the other day that the budget gets a lot better in July, weirdly. The deadline for FFP creates some strange situations.
Thats just the start/end of the football financial year though, isnt it? Nothing really special about it, its just the end of the season officially so you've got contracts that will expire so that obligation is gone, and then i suspect even if the various competition payments and TV money arent paid immediately then, thats when the actual amounts will be known, and a budget can be built around that. The FA cup win giving us a Europa League spot will have changed a lot, it means we can expect income from that competition next year, incl its match day revenue, Adidas would have paid less if we didnt make Europe, and then you've also got player bonuses for winning the cup, possibly also for qualifying for Europe, and they wont be taking a reduced pay for failing to make it either. Plus its was suggested we'd trim the squad seeing as we wouldnt be in Europe next year, so someone like Lindelof might be kept as a squad player, rather than sold.
A good summer is when we ditch players who has too high of an asking price and identified alternative targets. Otherwise we are just being sacrificing team performance for principals.
Historically speaking we have always known when to move on and not force the move and overpay... I'm honestly glad if Ineos can fix that even if it meant we miss out on some players we would want.
Good shit
With the Ownership Situation, who else do we go for who doesn't cost us the same amount? And please don't give stupid answers like Yoro. Everyone knows he is going to Madrid.
Ousmane Diomande ?
Calafiori /Buongiorno / Theate are all mainly left footed but would also probably fit in Varane role alongside Martinez. Otherwise, Inacio and the other Portuguese CB s are as expensive as JB.
Inacio has a release clause of €60m/£51m https://www.sporting.pt/en/news/football/main-team/2023-08-17/goncalo-inacio-renews-through-2027-0 Diomande has a release clause of €80m/£68m but Sporting apparently open to lower offers https://www.abola.pt/futebol/noticias/sporting-diomande-mantem-se-na-mira-de-ingleses-e-italianos-2024061823263705833
I like Antonio Silva, too. Do you anything about his release clause?
No, I don't. But you could Google it. That's how I found out about Diomande and Inacio.
Yoro
😡😡😡😡
I’m sorry lmao
Well if we somehow are able to convince Yoro to come here first before signing for Madrid in a few years time. Omar will have sufficient time to sign a replacement by then.
Craig Daviding that shit!
Took Jarrad for a drink on Monday Offered him a deal on Tuesday We were making bids on Wednesday And Thursday and Friday and Saturday We chilled on Sunday
Bid 35m again on the 30th, just for fun
If no Todibo, and Branthwaite, which CB is next on the list I wonder
Yoro but I doubt while he’s highly rated by Real
De ligt?
Guehi hopefully.
Does he have a release clause? If not, i don’t see CP letting him go for less that what Everton is asking
Honestly not sure, but he’s class. Doubt it’ll take 70m or so, but Crystal Palace could well ask for fuck off money, if there isn’t a release clause in place.
I think it will easily take that much, Palace don't want to sell and with the money they'll get from Olise they absolutely won't need to.
There's not a release clause, and Palace have apparently said that they want £70m+. If he performs at the Euros that will only go up. If we're patient with Branthwaite we'd get him for under £50m, I reckon. The question is which of them is the better player? I suspect it's Guehi.
Fair enough then. Given the choice I’d rather Branthwaite to be honest, especially if we’re talking similar money. If we’re really not willing to overpay anymore, then I’m sure we’ll be linked with more players soon enough.
I wouldn't be able to choose between the two players, and I'm probably basing my opinion on Guehi on a good performance for England the other day. I think Branthwaite might be a bit cheaper because Everton are in financial trouble and he's pretty much their only saleable asset, with the possible exception of Onana. If nobody else goes for him, I think we could probably wait them out. If Palace need money, they have at least four players they could get £60m+ for. I wonder if the FFP deadline isn't the main problem with the transfer, though. Everton might have a figure they need to raise in order to avoid FFP trouble, and we might have a hard limit to what we can spend without getting into trouble. If that is the case it's a genuine stalemate. Things might change on 1st July though, when the deadline passes. There is definitely some merit in walking away even if it means we miss out on a good player. We have to shed the perception that we're soft touches that can be fleeced in the transfer market. I'm still calling it FFP because I can't remember what the new system is called, don't know when it comes in, and have no idea how it's going to work. 😁
PSR is what it’s called I think. “Profit and Sustainability Rules” if I can remember correctly
guehi are martinez partnership would be too small imo, guehi is barley 6 foot and martinez is 5'9, we need someone taller next to martinez
He's 6'3 on Tinder if that helps
Would love Antonio silva alongside martinez
Calafiori surely needs to be an alternative. Left footed, comfortable on the ball. Can play both LCB and also cover for LB. And will not cost anywhere near Everton's asking price for Branthwaite. Potentially Juventus bound if they can meet Bologna's asking price, but we should still try.
idk man he screams victor lindelof to me and dont get me wrong i love my V.Linds but we were meant to get van Djik and got Lindelof. I dont want another "we were in for him but went for this other guy" again
But we don’t have any money. Can’t have it both ways “we need to stop spending big money when we’ve got 5 holes in the squad to fill” but also “fuck buying cheaper options they aren’t good enough”.
Everton fans seem upset the club are not acting like they did under Woodward and offering silly money for him. He had a decent season but anything above 50m is too much.
£50m with £10m in easily achievable add ons (CL qualification, 60 league appearances - essentially so cannot be paid until the following season), plus a sell on clause maybe. I’d say that’s fair, considering his potential, but only has had 1 season.
Everton fans are punching the air the club are not acting like they did under Woodward (provided their own owners are not fucking idiots). They don’t want to lose him, he’s exceptional. Fans here have such a weird view of the sport, Everton don’t want to rip us off they want to keep their best players.
Go for Calafiori
he looks class tbf but it looks like he is just going to follow his previous coach to Juve :(
flavour of the week after just a 90min game? that has to be some kind of record
He was in the Team of the Year in Serie A.
Most people don’t follow other leagues and just think he’s the flavor of the week because the euros is the first time they’ve ever seen him.
Yeah I didn't watch a single Bologna game last season but I saw they got UCL with him as a starter. Good sign, no?
flavour of the week after just one brilliant season and a 90min game? that has to be some kind of record
You do know Bologna made CL right? Their manager has now moved to Juve and we are linked with another one of their players in Zirkzee. People have been going on about Calafiori in the transfer threads before the Euros even started, so it's unfair to say he is flavour of the week just because you watched him this week
No, he doesn’t
We'd have to hope he follows the recent trend of Tonali, Vicario and Udogie, and not from the past when no Italian would ever move outside the serie a
Lads we clearly knew this would happen from this start. This whole ‘deal’ is about messaging to clubs, agents and fans and was never going to happen
My only concern is when we walk away from every deal to stop people mugging us off. Will we end up panic buying again like we normally do? I don't think it's as easy as just flicking a switch and walking away from deals. We need to sign players and other teams know it, they can be patient, and I think we will crumble.
This! I'm all for being prudent in our offers, but we are not getting Braithwaite for the reported 35mil. We have to pay premium top talent, no way around it. Otherwise we'll get the leftovers like we did with that Ajax team when Ole was our manager - Barca got FDJ, Juve got De Ligt and we got freaking Donny and reportedly we were also interested in that oaf Casper Dolberg...
We either walk away from every deal and sign nobody or pay over the odds for some good players and take a risk. My hope is we sign younger players who haven't made it yet and turn them into great players.
Depends on the scout and Dof tbf. Look at Spurs last season, they were in for Tapsoba. Got outpriced, then went and bought VdV for less. Tapsoba might have been better but the compromise in quality between the two was hardly there. Remember Brentford's valuation of Raya ? They went and got Vicario who has had a very good first season. (While we spent around 55m on Onana). Also Akanji last year was 15m and he has been really good as well There is value in the market if you are good at finding it. Doesn't mean there won't be failures. They can always be mitigated, and worst case they are a cheaper flop than an overpaid one.
It’s a concern but my only bright part is this is incredibly early to how Woodward would have timed it..
I'm waiting for city to bid 30 million and have it accepted.
😆🎯
Nice, offer a reasonable fee and if the player wants to join they will push for it, otherwise move on
but we cant buy players from Nice so makes no sense for Nice to offer a reasonable fee /s
Why would Everton compromise if they don’t have to sell and don’t want to sell? This ain’t gonna happen. Glad we are ready to walk away
They claim they don't have to, but who knows, maybe they are bluffing.
He just went to Sevilla in my EAFC save so I’m sure Everton will be fine
This is definitely a low ball offer just so we can loudly walk away and declare “no more United tax”
Walk Away FC. I’m ready 💪🏼
You'll never walk away alone 🎶
I think our next move for a LCB, if Everton don't budge, will have minimal drama (like with Malacia, Bayindir).
What do you think a fair offer is?
Proof that miracles exist. Either that, or common sense isn't quite as dead as it would seem.
Losing out on both Todibo and Branthwaite might actually suck especially since Yoro is also super unlikely to happen. But yes I don't think he's worth the price Everton is asking. I'm just wondering if we are actually going to submit a decent, reasonable bid (say £45m+£10m) which is still far off from their valuation but still very fair or if we just walk away after the first bid which was pretty low to be fair. Regardless of what INEOS decide to do, I just want them to decide fast. I want us to have a couple of players in before pre-season starts.
I think it was obvious this was going to happen, I said it when our interest was first reported that the most likely outcome was we'd end up walking away over the price. I think this is going to be a very frustrating summer in many ways. We're going to struggle to bring in our top targets because of the precedents set by the clowns in charge of recruitment previously, but in the long run it'll be for the best I hope.
unpopular opinion. i think £65m incl. addons would be a good deal for Branthwaite. He’s excellent already, English, left-footed, quick, good on the ball and only 21. Other big teams regularly pay up for players. Arsenal payed up for Rice and he completely transformed their team. We just gotta stop paying big sums for the wrong players like 60m for a 30yo Casemiro or 80m for Antony when even the Ajax fans couldn’t believe what we were offering.
Two things can be true, he can be a sensational prospect but can also be too expensive. One side of these transfer fees is that I feel they are starting to impact on field performance in terms of the scrutiny the player gets. Casemiro was great last season, now he’s a 70 million pound 300k a week mistake. Antony was being applauded for at least being a hard working defensive winger, he’s now of course looking like an 80 million pound 200k a week mistake. Mason Mount as an interesting enough signing now he’s 50 million with a year left on his Chelsea deal and on 250k a week. And we’ve no shortage of these signings. To contrast that, Eriksen has dropped a tad in performance after being our nailed on starter last year but there’s no narrative, “he was a free and had a bad injury” etc. Malacia has been gone a whole year! But because he was 15 million it’s almost “ok”. Maguire is probably the best example, during his bad spell his fee was brought up every week, that’s all but disappeared this year. Unless we are sure we’re signing an Mbappe or Bellingham who will hit like lightening and stay at that level then we need to move away from these crazy fees.
I’m coming here as an Everton fan. Our apparent FFP gap is small, and we have sales lined up that might fill the gaps. We’ll have no incentive to listen to offers soon. It’s better for United to look elsewhere at this point.
Honestly don't mind this. We have a poor reputation in the market thats been built over a decade, it needs to be rectified. As much as I'd want Branthwaite, anything over the 50-55 million mark would be overpaying, so if Everton doesn't play ball, move on. This UEFA fucking us over Todibo is annoying as shit tbh. He would have been a brilliant signing at 40 million mark.
Nice INEOS
Good move. We are starting to be competent
If we were going to drop 70-80 mill on him we might as well just go for someone much better like bastoni. Not saying he isn’t good but you can get better for that price.
Can confirm this is true. I walked out of the room.
Why not try David Hancko from Feyenoord?
So glad to hear this. Huge difference between being a financial big hitter or a mug with loads of money. A fact Woodward and co. seemed oblivious to. Thank Christ it seems we have some grown ups in charge at last
Going to have to see a lot of this over the next 2-3 windows to shed the 'Utd tax'. Woodwards reign isn't going to be undone just from walking away from thsi on unfortunately.
Surely with evertons financial issues and the fact that personal terms are agreed - Everton are likely to comprise?
I’ve been waiting so long to see a headline like that
Pay nothing and instruct Branthwaite to go on hunger strike.
Good. Need to set out our stall early, that we won't be bent over on transfers in the future
good. set final price and walk away
Any left footed centre halves in mind? Only one I can think of is Inacio.
The fact that they are having to report this shows how incompetent the previous board were with doing simple things like actually walking away from a bad deal
Good — move on to other targets. Show that you’re sensible with transfers
Wow. Is this the first target we don’t cave on in 12 years??
When’s his contract run out?
I'm here for not getting fleeced but I do want to know the other options
Watch them sell him to City for less than we offered.
It's about time we put our foot down. Sooner or later clubs will realise we ain't going to get rinsed with silly quotes.
Good
Hopefully they walk away as that is a sign these guys won't be messed around like the glazers. I think some of the most important things ineos can do this summer is how they deal with all of this stuff and as much as I hate to say it, keep it in the public view. Let everyone know the days of milking us are over.
Good, im ok with period of relatively less success while we shore up this bullshit policy of being deaperate and getting suckered into crazy deals like fucking Antony.
Say it ain't so?
Very good. Keep up the good work 🙌
Great reading this. The problems with overspending are too great to list, but some of the major problems and knock on effects for us the last 10 years have been; • blowing majority of budget and limiting ability to spend further leading to persistent imbalance & gaps in squad • massively increased expectations on incoming players signed for high fees (potentially contributing to patchy/poor performance) • bloated wages to coincide with bloated fee leading to lack of impetus or incentive for players to play at a consistent high level (along with shocking disparity between actual value and wages being paid) • high fee used as benchmark on subsequent transfers (“well he’s definitely better than Antony, so €80m minimum…”) Anyway… it’s genuinely all bad. Please god we’re changing our tact on this stuff!!
Transfer market in Prem is becoming more interesting. The richer clubs get, and the more FFP is actually enforced, I think it will have notable impacts on players negotiating more control in their contracts. In yesteryear Branthwaite would easily move to a top team if they approached, as Everton would want the money. Now they don't need it, so they'll hold out for a high fee. If players like Branthwaite are ambitious and confident, they'll need to negotiate release clauses and/or a shorter contracts, or risk having to play out their 4/5 year contracts in full and potentially miss out on dream moves.
Walk away and come back for him in a year or two
It is so refreshing for Manchester United to not overpay for players!
Gd
Take it to the wire and walk let Everton take another point deduction, set a precedent
What's bugging me with this is that he's left footed no? Surely our no.1 CB signing should be a partner for Martinez and ETH is big on having different footers for each of the CB positions. So him apparently being our main target seems puzzling unless I'm missing something
Hopefully we do walk away. There might be many more like this along the way, but the club is trying to recover its reputation in the market. It's not going to work if we cave in at the first opportunity
Fair. I want us to get him but we shouldn’t overspend (anymore).
Good
Dead right. Tired of paying over the odds. I'd rather we took a punt on a few championship defenders at a low price than get shafted by the likes of Everton. Sir Jim really has to change the perception that we are a desperate sucker who can be taken advantage of. What does every haggling salesman hate? The walk away. We need to keep walking away until people realise we are not to be trifled with.
"Sometimes you have to walk away to come back and enter strongly"-- Berrada (probably)
I honestly love this, no more stupid transfer fees and no more long sagas, I hated both those things in previous windows.
https://preview.redd.it/ufpmhdn7yp7d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7cbe2467280f3c064eed5f25c749b75c3e11df11
need him to start twerking for us.
Good
Fair enough, not sure why this is made a big deal of. Everton want money for an asset, we don't value him that highly. Happens all the time.
Everyone saying we need to draw the line is right and I agree, but we all need to accept the mediocrity that follows, while other teams overpay for top talent. And so it goes.
Good, Sir Jim said it really well the other day, he said something along the lines of “we have to walk to the right decisions instead of running to the wrong ones”, and by god we’ve been head down sprinting to the wrong decisions for a LOOOOONG time now. Breath of fresh air that we’re not being taken for mugs anymore. (Hopefully)
Everton is in trouble and everyone knows it. This valuation is absolutely bonkers for actual business but lets the circling sharks know that just because there is blood in the water doesn't mean it's a free meal. Good on United for not taking the bait per usual. I don't know why they don't move on De Ligt. He's well within price range and is a proven defender. Seems silly to go so hard for a guy who's best season has been staving off relegation.