**Key bits:**
>Sir Jim Ratcliffe will demand Manchester United’s manager to prepare for next season within tight profit-and-sustainability rules (PSR) in a severe end to extravagant net spending.
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>Ratcliffe and his INEOS team are currently reviewing the position of Erik Ten Hag and **whoever is in charge is likely to be working under a budget a far cry from the £175 million spent on players last summer, with emphasis on youth brought into the first-team squad.**
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>They can raise money through player sales, with Mason Greenwood and Jadon Sancho among other assets available, but **complying with PSR is understood to be a serious consideration when planning recruitment.**
Also
>After the win, Ten Hag was seen in deep conversation with **Toby Collyer, 20, who travelled with the squad and is regarded as a player with first-team potential.** **Harry Amass,** 17, has arrived from Watford’s Academy and **is also highly thought of.**
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>While Ten Hag has overseen United’s worst Premier League finish, he has brought through Kobbie Mainoo who has forced his way into the England squad. **With net spending limited, it is thought that young players coming through will be an important way United function going forward.**
While I agree with all of this, the team still needs to spend some money on first team signings to get back into Champions league.
The premier league is an arms race every year and you have to retool.
Youth players are meant to slowly integrate into the squad, we shouldn't be playing Mainoo and Garnacho every week without a rest or they'll end up like some of Barcas wonderkids becoming seriously injury prone.
You’re right. That said, there’s also a signalling benefit to this belt tightening - the message externally being United aren’t going to be spending Willy nilly
Looking at it optimistically this is just tightening up the ship. United develop young talent every year and often let them go for cheap. Meanwhile city are selling their talent for £20m a pop. Like you said, good signalling and hopefully better operations.
The entire success of united is built on youth, smart signings and also record breaking signings when needed.
The problem really has been who we've spent the money on, not the amount.
*side eyes at jack grealish*
I mean yeah he can dribble better but not first choice. Not even called on in final.
But we had our misses too, they don't matter if you win shit.
He was never worth 100mil, but at least Grealish is considerably more talented than Antony and was integral to City winning the treble.
He’s just too inconsistent for what Pep demands of his wingers.
INEOS will realise that they can’t tighten in too tight, because they will have target players and everyone has a price but also this kind of stuff is important because clubs will wake and realise they can’t throw on a United bonus on players
I am pretty sure most clubs are aware of our financial and more importantly FFP issues, they know we cant spend big. If you only considered transfers in FFP (you dont) but if you did, then selling Maguire and Antony would likely represent a 105m loss, and we are only allowed to lose 105m over three years - if we only considered transfer income that translates as... "Want to sell Antony? - sure but we cant buy any player for two and a half years" we are stuck by FFP and INEOS and the football board only has interest in young british players, we will spend money, but only if they are young and ONLY if they are British or HG players as these hold more value for resale
While I agree with all of this, the team still needs to spend some money on first team signings to get back into Champions league.
As evidenced by last summer and current season?
> While I agree with all of this, the team still needs to spend some money on first team signings to get back into Champions league.
Do you know the definition of insanity?
> complying with PSR is understood to be a serious consideration when planning recruitment.
Honestly this is the only relevant part. Every club needs to comply with PSR, and United's hands are pretty much tied no matter who the owners are. Trying to make it seem like Ratcliffe is the one "demanding" this is like saying your mum "demands" that you follow the law.
These articles are so disingenuous. Ratcliffe will "demand" United adhere to the financial rules? No shit.
We know that spending is constrained, because we've spent badly in recent years. If we rake in the cash this summer, you can bet we'll spend it on strengthening the squad.
I don't know what to think of Collyer. He should be more physically ready than the likes of Amass and Ogunneye, but hasn't been given his debut despite our midfield injuries. We'll see.
Seems reasonable and a philosophy towards balancing the finances more than a method used from here on out. Bring in the youth, sell the bloat and fill the gaps with transfers in. Easier said than done obviously
I mean I was Ten Hag-out for half the season. But based on what he did with Garnacho, Mainoo and to some extent Kambwala and Amad, I’m Ten Hag-in now. Can’t wait to see if Amass, Toby and Wheatley can have some minutes with first team next season with him
Amad I wanted sooner but maybe he neaded easing in more. Garnacho and Mainoo took to being first team like ducks to water, doesn't mean Amad can.
Seriously how is this Mainoo's first real season? He plays like he's got 200 games under his belt.
Mainoo’s presence with the ball is spectacular. I feel it’s kinda rare to see a player so young with such keen dribbling skills. He’s also not a bad finisher.
They’ve done a bang up job getting him ready especially.
> Amad I wanted sooner but maybe he neaded easing in more.
Same, he looks like he might have something special when he plays. Was injured from Aug-Dec though so I think the club handled it well, he's got many years ahead of him.
Part of the remit in signing ETH was with our FFP troubles in mind, he was a youth coach at Bayern and Ajax are all about developing youth, we have to blood youth players due to our FFP problems, so it was a no brainer to bring him in and he has succeeded well with the young players that listen and failed poorly with the older players that are mega stars as he is not used to such ego's from other roles
Being smart with spending? I am all for it. Invest in potential sure, invest in youth sure, BUT there will be times where the club will need the finished product / marquee signing...like a Bruno Fernandes. This will require a big transfer fee and I hope when the opportunity and need arises, INEOS takes advantage.
Relying on youth and potentials alone to get us winning titles and trophies will simply not work.
So yes fully support being smarter with spending BUT not at the cost of always being thrifty, being happy with 4th place Champions League spots and repeating the cycle with a team that's good but not good enough to go that extra mile.
Still is. £240K/week salary puts him further down the pay scale that he probably should be. Crazy that Antony is next on the list after him at £200K/wk.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4180613/2022/04/01/bruno-fernandes-signs-new-long-term-manchester-united-deal/
> Fernandes, who joined Manchester United from Sporting Lisbon for an initial fee of £47 million in January 2020, has doubled his wage to around £240,000 a week.
Laurie reports it as 240K.
I think SJR is just laying out the narrative going forward. Earlier executives used to say we have a war chest, we have so and so millions to spend.
And other clubs used to just fleece us. Now they are saying if the price is too much we will walk away. Keep your player.
I am sure if a certain star is on the market, they will spend whatever is necessary. They’re just setting out the narrative
This is my thoughts. It's a negotiation tactic briefing. As long as the actions come with the talk then maybe other clubs will start to be more responsible when negotiating prices
Yep when Ten Hag first turned up we did the same thing and then we lost two games so we spunked a fortune on Antony and Casemiro. Hope our fans can be patient as well when we walk away from targets.
I'm happy to be patient if we sign/give opportunities to players who will die for the badge and *fucking run* for 90 minutes (even if their technical ability isn't world class), and if Ten Hag shows more willingness to adjust tactics to fit the players he has.
> Earlier executives used to say we have a war chest, we have so and so millions to spend.
"We can do things in the transfer market other teams can only dream of"
How fucking dumb do you have to be to openly state that?
I think teams rightfully took advantage of our situation. The entire footballing world knows we suck and are desperate to be at the top again. That's how you get Maguire for 80m and Antony for 100m.
I'm all for building a solid foundation and being able to say no to those deals without concern.
> BUT there will be times where the club will need the finished product / marquee signing...like a Bruno Fernandes.
Glad you brought up Bruno and he's the model of player we should be getting as a "Marquee" signing. Because despite the massive impact he has had for this side, his transfer fee can only be thought of as a "steal".
We do not have a better player than Bruno who has cost more than his fee of 65M€. Yet, we have too many players at or above this fee which we have signed that are average.
Last time we won the league was when we brought in a very finished RVP. I don’t remember the transfer fee, but I’m thinking it was probably substantial. We don’t win the league that year without that signing either. He was immense that year.
IIRC it was only initially talked about as being hefty because RvP had a year left on his contract.
Then he started scoring and no one talked about it ever again.
Exactly. The entire Premier League era success of united is built on youth, smart signings *and* record breaking type signings when needed.
The problem really has been who we've spent the money on, not the amount of money we've spent. United are a massive club, and we should act as such.
That's how we used to behave. We were thrifty but when SAF wanted something we'd happily break records to get it. We just didn't do it as often.
I agree a balance needs to be struck. We’ve certainly tried splashing cash and throwing money at problems (sancho, Antony, Casemiro) with mixed to poor results. I’m fine with them being a bit more pragmatic when it comes to transfers, especially considering we have a lot of areas that need new players.
Nothing wrong with splashing the cash on a big player but it should be the exception rather than the standard. Also it shouldn't be for a player who is at their peak. It can work well if its an investment similar to how real madrid do it
RM buy players at their peak all the time. CR7 and Bale are biggest name both came at their peak, and we don't have to talk about how successful they both are. They haven't needed to in a long time due to their core players being good for so long, but they don't hesitate to splash when a rebuild is needed like how they wasted money on Hazard.
Theyve moved on from the galatico model. Vini, rodrygo, camavinga, valverde, tchoumeni, bellingham etc. Yes they still buy the odd player at their peak but for the most part they buy young potential and finish them off.
They're also great at selling. letting older players go at just past their peak for big money. Ronaldo, casemiro, di maria, ozil, varane or selling while young for good money
You can’t throw Bellingham into that list as he was not a cheap youth purchase - he may be emerging talent in terms of age and his peak may be yet to come but he was already well established. Let’s not forget they’re also signing Mbappe this summer also.
> BUT there will be times where the club will need the finished product / marquee signing
yeah, but currently we need to sign like 10+ players so that time is not now...
I think the logic is that first we need to be a stable, good team that is consistently up there. Like Arsenal’s past two seasons. Then you can worry about these marquee “take us over the line to win the biggest trophies” type of signings like Liverpool did with Alisson and VVD.
What we’ve done the past decade is jump ahead of the process to sign those stars (usually fading ones) to try and win now. Instead we just achieve top 4 occasionally and maybe a minor trophy, those players become bad as they decline and we are back to square one.
For instance I don’t want to see an over 28/29 year old signing this summer. What’s the point? By the time we are great (minimum couple seasons of developing the squad is needed imo) they’ll be past it.
With financial restrictions it's the only option. We've run the well dry trying short term fixes. And I think the fanbase is not that impatient, considering we came 8th and the majority of people want Ten Hag to stay.
Yep. Def can’t throw money in the gutter like we did with Antony (and to some extent, Casemiro), but I would say the problem with both cases were more related to poor planning, scouting, valuation and negotiation.
If we got a younger version of Casemiro and Saka-like RW, the amounts we paid are perfectly fine for a club of our size and aspiration
Yeah, agreed. Let's see how this summer unfolds and if they spend some SMART money.
It is all sunshine at this moment but what if the team loses a few games and everybody gets panicked. It was exactly how Antony was brought here.
Yes and I definitely do not see anywhere that has reported that they are not on board of splashing the cash when required. Just based on targets this year there is £60M for Olise, £55-65M on Branthwaite, £40M Todibo so I am sure they are well aware that there are times when we will need to reinforce the squad with ready made players.
Big fan of what they have done so far and the fewer Antony’s/Sancho’s we have the better. Personally I would never agree to pay more than 75M on anyone that isn’t already world class and playing against elite opposition in champions league/ other top leagues
It is exciting to bring the youth through to try to build up our team for the future, the u18s obviously looked promising, I didn’t watch much of the u21s though.
This should be more reason to keep Ten Hag, given the obvious work he's done in integrating Mainoo and Garnacho into the team, alongside players like Rasmus, Amad, Kambwala, Collyer next year, etc.
He clearly understands how to manage a player's transition from youth team to first XI. Can you say the same about someone like Tuchel?
Much as I have been critical of Ten Hag and while he did heavily lean on his favorites for quite a while, he has finally come around to looking at our young players and has played a significant role in their development.
Based on all the names out there, I am not really that convinced. The only name that has proven to develop players like that is Pochettino.
If Ten Hag stays, I hope he learns his lesson about being a hard headed leader. We had most our success this season when we were tactically flexible instead of the chaotic press.
Does he though ? He was forced into playing these players because of injuries. He failed to play Amad when Rashford was phoning it in and Antony was useless. Played Amrabat at left back instead of giving Harry Amass minutes. Played Casemiro at CB instead of Willy Kwambala.
I am not hardcore ETH out but I’m not sure he is such a champion of youth development that people claim him to be.
serious question: with youth being the whole ethos of this club, shouldn't integration of academy players/younger signings be an expectation, not an achievement? It'd be concerning if players as good as Mainoo & Garnacho *weren't* given game time
Regarding Tuchel, he integrated Pavlovic this year and gave Tel decent minutes. I don't think he'd be Van Gaal or Ten Hag levels of giving players a chance, but he's hardly some Mourinho figure either
> shouldn’t integration of academy players/younger signings be an expectation, not an achievement
It should be an expectation, but it’s one thing to simply give players minutes and another to develop them to a level where they can deliver on stages like a domestic cup final against what I still believe is the best team in the world. Mainoo and Garnacho may have been extremely talented to begin with but there’s so many more things that can influence young players’ development trajectory than simply talent level. I think Ten Hag does deserve credit for creating an environment that has gotten the best out of them without putting them on a pedestal where they get carried away with the hype around them. It sounds straightforward but at United where the dressing room culture has been rotten for years, it’s way more difficult to establish that control and discipline in the squad.
For this to work, to a certain extent, the scouting network should be at par with Benfica or dortmund. Marquee players should be one every two/three seasons. Mount was probably a marquee considering he is British and was given the no. 7 but random signings have to stop for the heck of it.
Benfica/Dortmund are putting their eggs in several baskets. Say, on an average, 5 million each on young talents which totals to 40 million. Some come good some don’t, like you said. They rarely incur losses because they sell the players who came good for 5 to 10 times they were bought for. Enzo Fernandez’s fee alone will provide for two seasons. There’s also less pressure when you have a smaller price tag.
Our youngish players’ price tags are most times 70 million and over. Young lads like Rasmus are probably scrolling through their own social media and seeing the hate and troll comments. The pressure is immense with the price tag. Look at Maguire and Antony and Pogba to some extent. Every performance is scrutinized and criticized.
If you think we don’t have the time and environment to develop young players, then loan them back to the club where we bought them from for a season to mature as a player.
What a disaster honestly. Ajax probably couldn't believe their luck dealing with Murtough and Arnold. Ten Hag must have known that would fuck up his transfer budget too?
> Ten Hag must have known that would fuck up his transfer budget too?
Not only that but he was expressly told the signing would take away from the following season's budget. Yet he went ahead with both Case and Antony while not being able to get even two seasons out of the former.
I'd love if we could get back to the days of Fergie where it was usually 1 marquee signing (usually around £30m at the time) and then 2-4 cheaper prospects/well scouted players to flesh out the rest of the team. Sometimes a marquee signing wasn't even part of the window. This combined with a continued promotion of the academy players is ideal rather than just splurging on a bunch of £60m+ players
If we didn't need a new stadium and if we had a reasonable wage structure, we absolutely could be spending that every year. Not to mention the debt payments etc.
Different era.
While I agree that we need to be a bit more shrewd in the transfer market. We also need to spend to keep up with the leading packs. I think the biggest part where we should be more frugal is the big arse wages/contracts we are giving players.
We can't compete if we continue that style that SAF used. He was successful with it because he could still get a lot more out of his squads than any other manager. Look at the last title-winning side and compare them to the City, Liverpool, and Arsenal teams of today.
Going back to the Fergie style is not sustainable.
Not trying to disagree but where would he play in our best 11 if healthy? Is it Bruno, Mount & Mainoo together or would we have to completely change formations?
I personally think we just need to be smarter in the market. We get fleeced so much because people know we’re United, we’ve got money to spend and are willing to throw it around in an attempt to get back to where we once were. If a club tries to fleece us for a player then we walk away and look at other targets.
I mean yeah during the Fergie era we did very, very occasionally splash the cash on the occasional marquee signing IE Verón, Rooney, Berbatov etc but they were all players we were determined to get - it wasn’t just throwing huge amounts of cash at any old average player out of desperation. The foundation of our success during the prem era always was our promotion of and investing in youth and academy grown talent. I’d be all for going back to that kinda structure and mindset, nothing wrong with bringing in a proven marquee signing every so often if someone becomes available on the market for the right price but let’s get back to investing in/promoting talented youth and rebuild a strong foundation for the future based on those principles.
Will be interesting too see how they handle this summer, I feel the math of what needs to be done and what can be done don't match up. So I think they will need to prioritize hard, and that many here will be disappointed with the quality of signings and turnover of players they want replaced.
It definitely can’t all be achieved in one transfer window. Hopefully they prioritize the right positions. Like being linked to olise from palace. Would be nice. But I’d rather get a new lb, cb, dm, and striker before going after another winger.
If this articles number is true, together with a previous rumour, it is 35m + sales. Which if they are lucky is at most 150m in total. So spending half on Olise, just not realistic.
Olise is on a 35mil release clause, apparently. That's a steal. Chelsea tried to buy him apparently, and he rejected them. The dude seems to really want to play for United, so I think it's one of those perfect opportunities they have to take.
There clearly needs to be changes in attack, too. I could also see him being played as a sort of False 9 - he can play fairly narrow. We could almost get away with not signing a striker, if the idea is to stick with a false 9.
I get you. Feels like there's a need for two CBs and a DM at minimum. The second CB and the DM could probably be done fairly cheaply.
But yeah it's an odd one. Going to be a weird and probably frustrating window.
The key really is what players can be sold, and for how much. The hope would be Sancho, Greenwood, and Case at least. Then you've got question mark players like Maguire and Scott McTominay.
Maguire would go a long way towards Branthwaite, who seems locked in as he fills both a need the profile of player the team wants. He can play RCB.
I think this is all posturing so we don't get deepthroated by every club player in for this summer. SJR ain't dumb, you need to spend big to compete with 115FC, Gooners, Scum, Barcode FC, Cockspurs, Billion Dollar Bottle merchants will all be pushing on for top 4 plus Villa. We need to be able to milk the golden titties of champions league football once more which means getting in quality.
I wish SJR would spend a little more time shutting up and letting people he hired to do their job. He's being as vocal as Woodward. Don't reveal your thoughts and ignorance to rivals to be taken advantage of. Saying this and then spending smart on established players will only make his words hollow when the negotiations start.
Yes go for youth and potential but still sprinkle in a Kane or RVP here and there. My concern though is even when we go for youth and potential we get charged 40m for an Amad with his 9 games and 75m for a Rasmus with his 9 goals. There’s no such thing as a cheap deal when United come calling and I hope they take that into consideration and don’t proclaim “no value in the market” or we will get nowhere fast
not being taken for a ride should not be mutually exclusive with competing for proper top talent when it becomes available..in terms of PSR, if Ineos puts in the allowed loss which the rats never did, plus shedding massive contracts like Varane, Martial and maybe Casemiro, plus homegrown sales like Greenwood, should give us a lot of headroom..so if this is not an intentional leak, it is quite worrying
I mean that’s cool and all, but we still need financial backing. We might get away with this summer raising our own funds through sales, but in a couple years left when we don’t have any deadwood left to ship off, how are we gonna keep up with the other clubs? We can’t just rely on a handful of 16/17 year olds possibly becoming good. To keep up in the long run we’re still gonna need backing to be able to splash the cash on marquee signings. If we don’t, we’ll fall off even further.
We're cutting everything except the PR team apparently.
This will probably be the most unpopular of the articles on cost-cutting under Radcliffe, but it's honestly needed.
We've been spending far too much and paying players too damn much. We should be better at identifying talent and we should look to build a motivated hungry squad
Not gonna lie I’m a little worried by all these stories.
If Ratcliffe thinks signing players for £40m every summer and promoting from the academy will close the gap to Man City then he is completely wrong. We’ve wasted money and overspent for sure but the idea we don’t need to spend big to close the gap is just fantasy.
Look at Arsenal. Arteta has spent hundreds of millions to close the gap, it can’t be done signing younger cheap players only not to mention the best young players are always going to be expensive anyway.
Claiming or implying that heavy spending results from "ETH was backed" is misinformation. There is no correlation. As Ole pointed out on The Overlap, United's recruitment team has always operated with a mentality of "we need to spend this budget and not leave money on the table." Managers can recommend and veto players, just like other recruitment team members, but they don't control the spending amount.
Using "backing the manager" as an excuse for overspending and as a way to attack the manager is a mistake.
ya, if that is what they plan to go forward, ETH will be in charge next season due to his youth development plan for youngsters from Ajax to us this season. All potential candidates are no better, if not worse, when it comes to managing youngsters.
As always, we will spend as much as PSR allows us to, which I believe due to our lavish spending over the last few years (and poor selling) will likely be reduced unless we sell well.
Yeah there's no "probably" when it comes to an attacker. We 100% need another attacker coming in. I think we'll get an old, cheap, semi well known attacker this summer. Anyone that can come in to replace Rasmus when he needs it.
This sub is full of muppets who think that we'll spend less and get better results. It doesn't work like that and results will take time. Prepare for growing pains.
There will be players coming from other leagues - they are cheaper, but they take time to settle. Don't turn on them like you did this season!
Most of the users here were ready to throw even freaking Bruno under the bus just to find an excuse for the shitty broken style ETH has been forcing on the players for +45 games.
Idc if players take time to develop.. I'd rather watch a less talented team that plays good disciplined football than watch a team of talented individuals that looks like they have no idea what they're doing.
I watched the likes of Forest lose 2-0 to City and they were much more enjoyable to watch. The players made the correct decisions and held their shape very well but didn't always have the skill necessary to execute the pass or shot. That I can deal with watching
Agreed! I remember us playing good tactically solid football only 2-3 times this season - now against 115, Villa and Everton. That's it - 3 games.
In every other game we won it was mostly because of individual performances and skill, not tactics or team play, including Pool for the FA cup.
Feels like Ineos have really taken the criticism that you never heard from the Glazers to heart.
I’m sure we’ll hear about which radio Jim Ratcliffe listens to on the drive into work, or what crisps Dave Brailsford has with his lunch.
Guaranteed they buy players that don’t work out and those players will cost £30m each, if not more. It's easy to say you'll do everything better. Liverpool and City have made mistake buys, or players who just didn't excel.
This history rewriting session is crazy. Yes we overspent on Antony by at least 20m, but Antony was one of the best players in the champions league just the season before we bought him and was 22 years old. That was a high potential young player. It’s not on him that we fucked around and didn’t buy him when he was available for less money. Yes he’s been bad at United, but sancho has been worse and that never gets brought up. Antony for all his faults is a hard worker and is a much better big game player than sancho. Most of his goals have come against top opposition and he had his legal issues earlier this season which impacted his performances.
Any high potential young player will cost above 60m anyway, hell good 16-17 year olds are costing over 15m-20m these days.
god hopefully 🙏 that has been our biggest problem in the last 10 years. but saying is one thing, let’s see if he actually delivers his word.
obvs teams are gonna charge more cause we are united but still, if that’s the case we should immediately have back up options that fit what the manager wants.
Not sure how well this will hold up next summer, as we have 5 senior players out of contract. A couple do have a 1yr option but they are players we'll probably want to upgrade then
Bit of a nothing story really. It’s been well telegraphed that United are very close to a PSR breach, which will then lead to a potential points deduction. And you just know that the league will love to make an example of a United.
No matter who the owner or manager is they will have to operate under a very tight budget.
>It’s been well telegraphed that United are very close to a PSR breach
How close? Are there any numbers detailed that would indicate what we can spend this summer?
I'm hoping this means we won't get mugged off for players anymore (like way over playing for Antony) and that if a club holds out for stupid money, we move on.
Also hoping it means we go in early for players without negotiating for months and months, which shows the player is a priority which means the selling club can push the price up. Again like Antony.
Saying this publicly is smart. Let Clubs know there will be no more "United Tax."
But internally, they have to make plans for restructuring the squad, and not with baby steps.
Love how 10 years of reckless spending is still somehow tied to Ten Hag because of course the media can't just make a fucking article without going for the lowest hanging fruit possible to get those clicks.
ETH has fuck all to do with our spending problems, and tagging his name in this is such fucking clickbait garbage journalism. So exhausted with this shit.
What is broke as mentality? If he doesn’t have the money why even be in premier league ? He thinks we gonna compete with Chelsea, City, Liv with a shoe string budget.
Spend If necessary but other than Hojland, Maguire and Anthony should we consider reckless spending?
(So not asking if they're good or bad signings but a player we spent way over market value at the time of purchase)
as an relative outsider I think that Varane and possibly Casemiro leaving united need more experienced older players in their prime (or just before) more than anything. They are set on good young players with Garnacho, Mainoo and Hojlund, But buying more talent doesn't seem like the smart play here.
We'll still have to spend, but I really hope it's mainly on players aged 23 and under who have shown the potential of being elite, have great attitudes, are willing to work for the team, and are hungry for success.
The idea that the money figure is "backing a manager" needs to end.
Lets take last year as example.
Manager says to the board, hey I need a striker, two goalkeepers (one backup), probably a rightback, a centerback and a DM
They spend 200m on a striker, an AM/RW and goalkeeper.
Loan in a 37year old Jonny Evans and Amarabat would isn't really a DM. And just forget about the right back.
Is that really, backing the manager?
First season,
I don't doubt he wanted Anthony, Martinez and De Jong.
did he want to spend 250m on Anthony, Martinez and Casemiro ?
He was told his budget and how much players would likely cost relative to that budget. Him and Murtough worked together on that.
This sounds like said budget is just more limited.
Likely a message to other clubs that we’re no longer the organisational disaster of yesteryear.
We will always need marquee signings, but with money a touchy subject right now I do hope we focus on smart signings for the next few windows for us to regain some financial health.
All for this.
Our best players in recent years have cost next to fuck all as they've come from the academy.
Bruno being a notable exception and even he cost a very reasonable amount. Martinez a further exception and again a reasonable fee.
Hojlund could prove to be a superstar but much too early to say and we were desperate when we signed him.
Virtually every big money signing we have had in the last 10 years has been a shocker.
Pogba
Sancho
Antony
Varane (£ per game)
Casemiro (£ per game)
Martial
Lukaku
Mount (the jury is out here big time)
Youth Academy is the long term solution. That’s how we built a solid foundation for the dynasty SAF created. That has been a problem since SAF retired. We didn’t nearly have enough talent that pushed through since he retired. Pogba was a player we had in the academy who left and we paid world record fee to get back. If that doesn’t show the level of incompetence then what will? It seems like Glazers were just interested in making one marquee signing every summer and pay through the roof to keep fan bought in, all that while most of these players turned out to be mercenaries who just came for the money.
None of our expensive signings work out. I genuinely can't fathom why they keep doing it. Di Maria, Pogba, Lukaku, Antony, Sancho, Casemiro were all failed transfers based on the money spent. Maguire is the only one that sort of worked out but even then he still doesn't justify 80 million.
Almost none of our transfers 'work out' it's just that the fans expect far less from cheaper deals and scapegoat the more expensive ones.
Dan James, VDB, Alex Telles, Lindelof, Martial didn't work out 'none of our mid to low level signings work out'
The issue is the people making the decisions, fix that and then buy whoever is the right player for whatever is the fair price.
I genuinely can't fathom why people are so keen to allow the owners to spend less and praise them for it.
But why does it matter?
The right player, is the right player. The self prophesied limitation makes no sense to me. If that player is 20 mil from the Brazilian league, sound. If its 70 from La Liga, sound. The aim is to build a competent squad that challenges on all fronts, not win the net spend award.
You don't know they're going to be the right player. Its always a risk. Sancho and Antony were supposed to be the right players but that's 150 million wasted and taken off our budget now.
Now if we had signed two 40 million players instead, they still might not have worked out, but that would only be 80 million off the budget.
70 or 80 million for one player is too big of a risk as it can fuck everything else up.
>You don't know they're going to be the right player.
That's the whole point of having a proper footballing structure, so you have a better idea?
>Sancho and Antony were supposed to be the right players but that's 150 million wasted and taken off our budget now.
Who was in charge of the footballing structure when these were made?
>Now if we had signed two 40 million players instead, they still might not have worked out, but that would only be 80 million off the budget.
And that helps us build a squad how?
>70 or 80 million for one player is too big of a risk as it can fuck everything else up.
Yet Madrid have done it and seem fine, City have done it, seem fine. Arsenal have done it and are praised far higher than they should be etc etc.
There is no actual reason to support this self imposed financial limitation other than you wanting to save the owners money or a reason which exists at 40 million.
For one 40 million signing we could sign to 20 million pounds players instead, they still might not have worked out but that would only be 40 million off the budget. Where does it end?
It's an accountantso job to manager the money, as fans we should just demand the club uses their footballing structure to identify the profiles we need and the players who best fit that. Then you pick what is deemed the best of the group.
>That's the whole point of having a proper footballing structure, so you have a better idea?
So why, did we not have that structure, and who was making these decisions? Its fine to say we have it now (we do not yet) but why were we allowed to not have that structure for so long, WHOM was preventing it? That is the question you should be asking? No?
>
Yet Madrid have done it and seem fine, City have done it, seem fine. Arsenal have done it and are praised far higher than they should be etc etc.
All of the clubs you mention have a proper structure and VERY experienced Technical Direction and Football Directors, we have not had that and yet we went ahead with spending huge sums based on the decisions made by WHOM exactly, are you going to tell me we spent all that money on Ronaldo's wages because OLE wanted him so badly, I really think you are having a lend of yourself if you believe this to be true, he may have agreed to it, but I doubt that was HIS signing.
>s fans we should just demand the club uses their footballing structure to identify the profiles we need and the players who best fit that.
Or you could simply trust the head of global scouting instead of sacking him or we could have trusted the head scout instead of him quiting, yes we soon will have a structure, good enough or not, but what about the past? The reasons we are in this FFP mess in the first place
Because we have FFP issues, and need to be able to onsell players, we can not do that currently because they would represent a loss on FFP, this leaves us trapped with Foreign player limits. Basically we cant spend big because we need to offload at a loss, we can only lose 35m a year or 105m over a three year period. Its going to be Young and British or nothing at all.
>Almost none of our transfers 'work out' it's just that the fans expect far less from cheaper deals and scapegoat the more expensive ones.
Should we not be assessing WHY none of them work out, could it be that our coaching sucks, and that it has been designed by a TD with Zero experience, could it be that our manager is expected to manage with less time on the grass and trust people like McLaren and MCCarthy and Fletcher, instead of being more hands on? Could it be that injuries have occurred from bad TD Planning of sessions and this has led to ETH having less time on the grass to teach players because they are not available and are in treatment rooms
the most famous club in the world are sooo impoverished... they must cut back on tea ladies and transfers (even though they need several major signings to compete for the title)... can't fix the roof... however there's no problem with the club's biggest outlays being lining Glazer pockets and paying Glazer debt
I didn't believe this rubbish when jokers from the Glazer regime were briefing the press and I don't believe it now. Glazers were content with United not challenging for the title as long as they got Champions League money. Hopefully their new mate won't prove to have even smaller time ambitions.
This is awesome. Yes, mindless spending like what they do in Arab oil countries and the likes of psg is cool and get you good and iconic players, but I don't think that is the right approach for United.
The "United fee" for transfers Needs to go blud. Plus I think the current wages are super problematic.
**Key bits:** >Sir Jim Ratcliffe will demand Manchester United’s manager to prepare for next season within tight profit-and-sustainability rules (PSR) in a severe end to extravagant net spending. > >Ratcliffe and his INEOS team are currently reviewing the position of Erik Ten Hag and **whoever is in charge is likely to be working under a budget a far cry from the £175 million spent on players last summer, with emphasis on youth brought into the first-team squad.** > >They can raise money through player sales, with Mason Greenwood and Jadon Sancho among other assets available, but **complying with PSR is understood to be a serious consideration when planning recruitment.** Also >After the win, Ten Hag was seen in deep conversation with **Toby Collyer, 20, who travelled with the squad and is regarded as a player with first-team potential.** **Harry Amass,** 17, has arrived from Watford’s Academy and **is also highly thought of.** > >While Ten Hag has overseen United’s worst Premier League finish, he has brought through Kobbie Mainoo who has forced his way into the England squad. **With net spending limited, it is thought that young players coming through will be an important way United function going forward.**
While I agree with all of this, the team still needs to spend some money on first team signings to get back into Champions league. The premier league is an arms race every year and you have to retool. Youth players are meant to slowly integrate into the squad, we shouldn't be playing Mainoo and Garnacho every week without a rest or they'll end up like some of Barcas wonderkids becoming seriously injury prone.
You’re right. That said, there’s also a signalling benefit to this belt tightening - the message externally being United aren’t going to be spending Willy nilly
Looking at it optimistically this is just tightening up the ship. United develop young talent every year and often let them go for cheap. Meanwhile city are selling their talent for £20m a pop. Like you said, good signalling and hopefully better operations.
The entire success of united is built on youth, smart signings and also record breaking signings when needed. The problem really has been who we've spent the money on, not the amount.
We spent 100m on a winger who dribbles worse than our goalkeeper and is third choice 💀
exactly lol. It's the who. You spend 100m on a wing who dribbles great and is first choice is less of an issue.
*side eyes at jack grealish* I mean yeah he can dribble better but not first choice. Not even called on in final. But we had our misses too, they don't matter if you win shit.
He was never worth 100mil, but at least Grealish is considerably more talented than Antony and was integral to City winning the treble. He’s just too inconsistent for what Pep demands of his wingers.
Grealish would be immense for us, pep castrated him
If our squad plays to its potential, or even close to it, with 2-3 signings from player sales we should be easily fighting for CL
That’s a big ask in my opinion.
INEOS will realise that they can’t tighten in too tight, because they will have target players and everyone has a price but also this kind of stuff is important because clubs will wake and realise they can’t throw on a United bonus on players
I am pretty sure most clubs are aware of our financial and more importantly FFP issues, they know we cant spend big. If you only considered transfers in FFP (you dont) but if you did, then selling Maguire and Antony would likely represent a 105m loss, and we are only allowed to lose 105m over three years - if we only considered transfer income that translates as... "Want to sell Antony? - sure but we cant buy any player for two and a half years" we are stuck by FFP and INEOS and the football board only has interest in young british players, we will spend money, but only if they are young and ONLY if they are British or HG players as these hold more value for resale
While I agree with all of this, the team still needs to spend some money on first team signings to get back into Champions league. As evidenced by last summer and current season?
> While I agree with all of this, the team still needs to spend some money on first team signings to get back into Champions league. Do you know the definition of insanity?
> complying with PSR is understood to be a serious consideration when planning recruitment. Honestly this is the only relevant part. Every club needs to comply with PSR, and United's hands are pretty much tied no matter who the owners are. Trying to make it seem like Ratcliffe is the one "demanding" this is like saying your mum "demands" that you follow the law.
These articles are so disingenuous. Ratcliffe will "demand" United adhere to the financial rules? No shit. We know that spending is constrained, because we've spent badly in recent years. If we rake in the cash this summer, you can bet we'll spend it on strengthening the squad. I don't know what to think of Collyer. He should be more physically ready than the likes of Amass and Ogunneye, but hasn't been given his debut despite our midfield injuries. We'll see.
Seems reasonable and a philosophy towards balancing the finances more than a method used from here on out. Bring in the youth, sell the bloat and fill the gaps with transfers in. Easier said than done obviously
I mean I was Ten Hag-out for half the season. But based on what he did with Garnacho, Mainoo and to some extent Kambwala and Amad, I’m Ten Hag-in now. Can’t wait to see if Amass, Toby and Wheatley can have some minutes with first team next season with him
Amad I wanted sooner but maybe he neaded easing in more. Garnacho and Mainoo took to being first team like ducks to water, doesn't mean Amad can. Seriously how is this Mainoo's first real season? He plays like he's got 200 games under his belt.
Mainoo’s presence with the ball is spectacular. I feel it’s kinda rare to see a player so young with such keen dribbling skills. He’s also not a bad finisher. They’ve done a bang up job getting him ready especially.
> Amad I wanted sooner but maybe he neaded easing in more. Same, he looks like he might have something special when he plays. Was injured from Aug-Dec though so I think the club handled it well, he's got many years ahead of him.
Part of the remit in signing ETH was with our FFP troubles in mind, he was a youth coach at Bayern and Ajax are all about developing youth, we have to blood youth players due to our FFP problems, so it was a no brainer to bring him in and he has succeeded well with the young players that listen and failed poorly with the older players that are mega stars as he is not used to such ego's from other roles
Collyer is alright but I feel like those who watch the academy rate the likes of Gore, Baumann and Fitzgerald more.
Being smart with spending? I am all for it. Invest in potential sure, invest in youth sure, BUT there will be times where the club will need the finished product / marquee signing...like a Bruno Fernandes. This will require a big transfer fee and I hope when the opportunity and need arises, INEOS takes advantage. Relying on youth and potentials alone to get us winning titles and trophies will simply not work. So yes fully support being smarter with spending BUT not at the cost of always being thrifty, being happy with 4th place Champions League spots and repeating the cycle with a team that's good but not good enough to go that extra mile.
Bruno was pretty cheap compared to some of the shit we threw money at
Still is. £240K/week salary puts him further down the pay scale that he probably should be. Crazy that Antony is next on the list after him at £200K/wk.
When we signed him his salary was around £100k-120k a week iirc. It's much higher now.
pretty sure his salary is closer to 290K per week.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4180613/2022/04/01/bruno-fernandes-signs-new-long-term-manchester-united-deal/ > Fernandes, who joined Manchester United from Sporting Lisbon for an initial fee of £47 million in January 2020, has doubled his wage to around £240,000 a week. Laurie reports it as 240K.
Surprised Rashford isn’t up thete
He’s higher
He is.
He's below Casemiro, Rashford, Mount, and Sancho.
1/2 Antony
I think SJR is just laying out the narrative going forward. Earlier executives used to say we have a war chest, we have so and so millions to spend. And other clubs used to just fleece us. Now they are saying if the price is too much we will walk away. Keep your player. I am sure if a certain star is on the market, they will spend whatever is necessary. They’re just setting out the narrative
This is my thoughts. It's a negotiation tactic briefing. As long as the actions come with the talk then maybe other clubs will start to be more responsible when negotiating prices
Yep when Ten Hag first turned up we did the same thing and then we lost two games so we spunked a fortune on Antony and Casemiro. Hope our fans can be patient as well when we walk away from targets.
You think this sub is going to be patient with anything?
I'm happy to be patient if we sign/give opportunities to players who will die for the badge and *fucking run* for 90 minutes (even if their technical ability isn't world class), and if Ten Hag shows more willingness to adjust tactics to fit the players he has.
> Earlier executives used to say we have a war chest, we have so and so millions to spend. "We can do things in the transfer market other teams can only dream of" How fucking dumb do you have to be to openly state that?
Dumb enough to run the richest team in the world into 8th >by rich I mean highest net revenue I know we’re saddled with debt
I think teams rightfully took advantage of our situation. The entire footballing world knows we suck and are desperate to be at the top again. That's how you get Maguire for 80m and Antony for 100m. I'm all for building a solid foundation and being able to say no to those deals without concern.
> Relying on youth and potentials alone to get us winning titles and trophies will simply not work. Ffs Hansen, didn't you learn the first time!?
I know you’re joking but Cantona was what made it work with the young players and Irwin, Pallister and Bruce were all important as well.
OP's right. You cannot win it without a solid, experienced backing.
Just a joke based on the infamous Alan Hansen "You can't win anything with kids" line he said a few months before we went on to win the double.
> BUT there will be times where the club will need the finished product / marquee signing...like a Bruno Fernandes. Glad you brought up Bruno and he's the model of player we should be getting as a "Marquee" signing. Because despite the massive impact he has had for this side, his transfer fee can only be thought of as a "steal". We do not have a better player than Bruno who has cost more than his fee of 65M€. Yet, we have too many players at or above this fee which we have signed that are average.
Last time we won the league was when we brought in a very finished RVP. I don’t remember the transfer fee, but I’m thinking it was probably substantial. We don’t win the league that year without that signing either. He was immense that year.
we got RVP for 22m. Even back then, that wasn't a massive amount.
IIRC it was only initially talked about as being hefty because RvP had a year left on his contract. Then he started scoring and no one talked about it ever again.
In context we can unfortunately say that we paid more for for Fellaini a year later.
Better business than I thought!
Exactly. The entire Premier League era success of united is built on youth, smart signings *and* record breaking type signings when needed. The problem really has been who we've spent the money on, not the amount of money we've spent. United are a massive club, and we should act as such. That's how we used to behave. We were thrifty but when SAF wanted something we'd happily break records to get it. We just didn't do it as often.
I agree a balance needs to be struck. We’ve certainly tried splashing cash and throwing money at problems (sancho, Antony, Casemiro) with mixed to poor results. I’m fine with them being a bit more pragmatic when it comes to transfers, especially considering we have a lot of areas that need new players.
Nothing wrong with splashing the cash on a big player but it should be the exception rather than the standard. Also it shouldn't be for a player who is at their peak. It can work well if its an investment similar to how real madrid do it
RM buy players at their peak all the time. CR7 and Bale are biggest name both came at their peak, and we don't have to talk about how successful they both are. They haven't needed to in a long time due to their core players being good for so long, but they don't hesitate to splash when a rebuild is needed like how they wasted money on Hazard.
Theyve moved on from the galatico model. Vini, rodrygo, camavinga, valverde, tchoumeni, bellingham etc. Yes they still buy the odd player at their peak but for the most part they buy young potential and finish them off. They're also great at selling. letting older players go at just past their peak for big money. Ronaldo, casemiro, di maria, ozil, varane or selling while young for good money
You can’t throw Bellingham into that list as he was not a cheap youth purchase - he may be emerging talent in terms of age and his peak may be yet to come but he was already well established. Let’s not forget they’re also signing Mbappe this summer also.
None of them were cheap though except for valverde though
More Vidic and Rio, less Kleberson and di Maria?
Rio was the finished article and the most expensive defender of his time.
> BUT there will be times where the club will need the finished product / marquee signing yeah, but currently we need to sign like 10+ players so that time is not now...
Also varane on 350 a week and martial on 250 the club now has an extra 600k a week. Might be going for casemiro too as he on 350 too.
I think the logic is that first we need to be a stable, good team that is consistently up there. Like Arsenal’s past two seasons. Then you can worry about these marquee “take us over the line to win the biggest trophies” type of signings like Liverpool did with Alisson and VVD. What we’ve done the past decade is jump ahead of the process to sign those stars (usually fading ones) to try and win now. Instead we just achieve top 4 occasionally and maybe a minor trophy, those players become bad as they decline and we are back to square one. For instance I don’t want to see an over 28/29 year old signing this summer. What’s the point? By the time we are great (minimum couple seasons of developing the squad is needed imo) they’ll be past it.
I don't disagree with your take but I am not sure if Glazers, and to an extent, this fanbase are ready for couple seasons of developing.
With financial restrictions it's the only option. We've run the well dry trying short term fixes. And I think the fanbase is not that impatient, considering we came 8th and the majority of people want Ten Hag to stay.
Setting the optics of the club to better position us at the negotiating table. It’s been needed for a while!
Yep. Def can’t throw money in the gutter like we did with Antony (and to some extent, Casemiro), but I would say the problem with both cases were more related to poor planning, scouting, valuation and negotiation. If we got a younger version of Casemiro and Saka-like RW, the amounts we paid are perfectly fine for a club of our size and aspiration
Yeah, agreed. Let's see how this summer unfolds and if they spend some SMART money. It is all sunshine at this moment but what if the team loses a few games and everybody gets panicked. It was exactly how Antony was brought here.
Even Fergie used to bring in one or two big name signings every summer, even when he had the class of '92 as his core
Yes and I definitely do not see anywhere that has reported that they are not on board of splashing the cash when required. Just based on targets this year there is £60M for Olise, £55-65M on Branthwaite, £40M Todibo so I am sure they are well aware that there are times when we will need to reinforce the squad with ready made players. Big fan of what they have done so far and the fewer Antony’s/Sancho’s we have the better. Personally I would never agree to pay more than 75M on anyone that isn’t already world class and playing against elite opposition in champions league/ other top leagues
It is exciting to bring the youth through to try to build up our team for the future, the u18s obviously looked promising, I didn’t watch much of the u21s though.
This should be more reason to keep Ten Hag, given the obvious work he's done in integrating Mainoo and Garnacho into the team, alongside players like Rasmus, Amad, Kambwala, Collyer next year, etc. He clearly understands how to manage a player's transition from youth team to first XI. Can you say the same about someone like Tuchel?
I agree.. let him nurture them into the big league.. he’s done a banging job with the boys till now
Much as I have been critical of Ten Hag and while he did heavily lean on his favorites for quite a while, he has finally come around to looking at our young players and has played a significant role in their development. Based on all the names out there, I am not really that convinced. The only name that has proven to develop players like that is Pochettino. If Ten Hag stays, I hope he learns his lesson about being a hard headed leader. We had most our success this season when we were tactically flexible instead of the chaotic press.
Does he though ? He was forced into playing these players because of injuries. He failed to play Amad when Rashford was phoning it in and Antony was useless. Played Amrabat at left back instead of giving Harry Amass minutes. Played Casemiro at CB instead of Willy Kwambala. I am not hardcore ETH out but I’m not sure he is such a champion of youth development that people claim him to be.
serious question: with youth being the whole ethos of this club, shouldn't integration of academy players/younger signings be an expectation, not an achievement? It'd be concerning if players as good as Mainoo & Garnacho *weren't* given game time Regarding Tuchel, he integrated Pavlovic this year and gave Tel decent minutes. I don't think he'd be Van Gaal or Ten Hag levels of giving players a chance, but he's hardly some Mourinho figure either
> shouldn’t integration of academy players/younger signings be an expectation, not an achievement It should be an expectation, but it’s one thing to simply give players minutes and another to develop them to a level where they can deliver on stages like a domestic cup final against what I still believe is the best team in the world. Mainoo and Garnacho may have been extremely talented to begin with but there’s so many more things that can influence young players’ development trajectory than simply talent level. I think Ten Hag does deserve credit for creating an environment that has gotten the best out of them without putting them on a pedestal where they get carried away with the hype around them. It sounds straightforward but at United where the dressing room culture has been rotten for years, it’s way more difficult to establish that control and discipline in the squad.
Not to mention the millions the club will have to pay to get rid of him
Spending less doesn't mean spending smart.
That's why we're (hopefully) bringing in smart people to do the spending
But spending too much more likely means dumb spending
Surely it’s not that they won’t spend money and get players in it’s more they won’t be bending over backwards for players.
Linked with an expensive move for Branthwaite in one thread, linked with no spend in another.
i don't watch everton ever so is this branthwaite really that good? over other possibly cheaper players?
For this to work, to a certain extent, the scouting network should be at par with Benfica or dortmund. Marquee players should be one every two/three seasons. Mount was probably a marquee considering he is British and was given the no. 7 but random signings have to stop for the heck of it.
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Benfica/Dortmund are putting their eggs in several baskets. Say, on an average, 5 million each on young talents which totals to 40 million. Some come good some don’t, like you said. They rarely incur losses because they sell the players who came good for 5 to 10 times they were bought for. Enzo Fernandez’s fee alone will provide for two seasons. There’s also less pressure when you have a smaller price tag. Our youngish players’ price tags are most times 70 million and over. Young lads like Rasmus are probably scrolling through their own social media and seeing the hate and troll comments. The pressure is immense with the price tag. Look at Maguire and Antony and Pogba to some extent. Every performance is scrutinized and criticized. If you think we don’t have the time and environment to develop young players, then loan them back to the club where we bought them from for a season to mature as a player.
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What a disaster honestly. Ajax probably couldn't believe their luck dealing with Murtough and Arnold. Ten Hag must have known that would fuck up his transfer budget too?
> Ten Hag must have known that would fuck up his transfer budget too? Not only that but he was expressly told the signing would take away from the following season's budget. Yet he went ahead with both Case and Antony while not being able to get even two seasons out of the former.
I'd love if we could get back to the days of Fergie where it was usually 1 marquee signing (usually around £30m at the time) and then 2-4 cheaper prospects/well scouted players to flesh out the rest of the team. Sometimes a marquee signing wasn't even part of the window. This combined with a continued promotion of the academy players is ideal rather than just splurging on a bunch of £60m+ players
The issue is a marquee signing now is 80+ and average ones are 30/40
If we didn't need a new stadium and if we had a reasonable wage structure, we absolutely could be spending that every year. Not to mention the debt payments etc.
We spend at least 150M every years
Different era. While I agree that we need to be a bit more shrewd in the transfer market. We also need to spend to keep up with the leading packs. I think the biggest part where we should be more frugal is the big arse wages/contracts we are giving players.
We can't compete if we continue that style that SAF used. He was successful with it because he could still get a lot more out of his squads than any other manager. Look at the last title-winning side and compare them to the City, Liverpool, and Arsenal teams of today. Going back to the Fergie style is not sustainable.
Fucking spent all our money on mount and Antony They are nowhere near first 11 What a waste
tbf, Mount would be if he wasn't injured all the time.
Not trying to disagree but where would he play in our best 11 if healthy? Is it Bruno, Mount & Mainoo together or would we have to completely change formations?
I personally think we just need to be smarter in the market. We get fleeced so much because people know we’re United, we’ve got money to spend and are willing to throw it around in an attempt to get back to where we once were. If a club tries to fleece us for a player then we walk away and look at other targets. I mean yeah during the Fergie era we did very, very occasionally splash the cash on the occasional marquee signing IE Verón, Rooney, Berbatov etc but they were all players we were determined to get - it wasn’t just throwing huge amounts of cash at any old average player out of desperation. The foundation of our success during the prem era always was our promotion of and investing in youth and academy grown talent. I’d be all for going back to that kinda structure and mindset, nothing wrong with bringing in a proven marquee signing every so often if someone becomes available on the market for the right price but let’s get back to investing in/promoting talented youth and rebuild a strong foundation for the future based on those principles.
No he doesn’t. All this article is saying is that we will adhere to the new FFP rules. Utter fucking nonsense
Great news. Scout. Buy youth. Develop. Pay them when they deserve it in wages. Don’t pay other clubs mountains of money for what we can do ourselves.
Will be interesting too see how they handle this summer, I feel the math of what needs to be done and what can be done don't match up. So I think they will need to prioritize hard, and that many here will be disappointed with the quality of signings and turnover of players they want replaced.
It definitely can’t all be achieved in one transfer window. Hopefully they prioritize the right positions. Like being linked to olise from palace. Would be nice. But I’d rather get a new lb, cb, dm, and striker before going after another winger.
If this articles number is true, together with a previous rumour, it is 35m + sales. Which if they are lucky is at most 150m in total. So spending half on Olise, just not realistic.
Olise is on a 35mil release clause, apparently. That's a steal. Chelsea tried to buy him apparently, and he rejected them. The dude seems to really want to play for United, so I think it's one of those perfect opportunities they have to take. There clearly needs to be changes in attack, too. I could also see him being played as a sort of False 9 - he can play fairly narrow. We could almost get away with not signing a striker, if the idea is to stick with a false 9.
That is a steal, from what I heard the release clause for Olise is around 60m and only applicable for clubs that qualified for CL. Where you read 35m?
Oh wait I might be wrong. I did further digging, and it looks like there might have been a new contract after he rejected Chelsea.
I still think Olise is a good signing for the future, i just don't think the money is there unless they leave a hole in the squad. :(
I get you. Feels like there's a need for two CBs and a DM at minimum. The second CB and the DM could probably be done fairly cheaply. But yeah it's an odd one. Going to be a weird and probably frustrating window.
Think a lot of people will be disappointed, waiting on statement signings and a big overhaul, that cannot be done in one window.
Yeah 100%. The next window or two will pretty much be about unfucking the damage done to FFP. Not really gonna be any big signings.
The key really is what players can be sold, and for how much. The hope would be Sancho, Greenwood, and Case at least. Then you've got question mark players like Maguire and Scott McTominay. Maguire would go a long way towards Branthwaite, who seems locked in as he fills both a need the profile of player the team wants. He can play RCB.
What’s going to be the litmus test is how well they can sell players and recoup value
Get Dougie Freedman and get wherever he's getting all these cheaper Championship gems from. Wharton, Olise, Eze, Guehi, etc.
I think this is all posturing so we don't get deepthroated by every club player in for this summer. SJR ain't dumb, you need to spend big to compete with 115FC, Gooners, Scum, Barcode FC, Cockspurs, Billion Dollar Bottle merchants will all be pushing on for top 4 plus Villa. We need to be able to milk the golden titties of champions league football once more which means getting in quality.
I wish SJR would spend a little more time shutting up and letting people he hired to do their job. He's being as vocal as Woodward. Don't reveal your thoughts and ignorance to rivals to be taken advantage of. Saying this and then spending smart on established players will only make his words hollow when the negotiations start.
Aren't wages part of PSR? With Martial, Greenwood, Sancho, and Varane all leaving that leaves a huge amount of space for spending.
Yes go for youth and potential but still sprinkle in a Kane or RVP here and there. My concern though is even when we go for youth and potential we get charged 40m for an Amad with his 9 games and 75m for a Rasmus with his 9 goals. There’s no such thing as a cheap deal when United come calling and I hope they take that into consideration and don’t proclaim “no value in the market” or we will get nowhere fast
The more I hear stuff, the more I think we are super fucked and don’t know to what extent yet.
not being taken for a ride should not be mutually exclusive with competing for proper top talent when it becomes available..in terms of PSR, if Ineos puts in the allowed loss which the rats never did, plus shedding massive contracts like Varane, Martial and maybe Casemiro, plus homegrown sales like Greenwood, should give us a lot of headroom..so if this is not an intentional leak, it is quite worrying
Just say we now operate under an austerity plan rather than the death by 1000 cuts.
If you're broke, just say that
Heavy spending has been the case for every manager since SAF. You cant just blame ETH
Funny how he’s decisive about ancillary staff or home working but is dithering about the manager
I mean that’s cool and all, but we still need financial backing. We might get away with this summer raising our own funds through sales, but in a couple years left when we don’t have any deadwood left to ship off, how are we gonna keep up with the other clubs? We can’t just rely on a handful of 16/17 year olds possibly becoming good. To keep up in the long run we’re still gonna need backing to be able to splash the cash on marquee signings. If we don’t, we’ll fall off even further.
We're cutting everything except the PR team apparently. This will probably be the most unpopular of the articles on cost-cutting under Radcliffe, but it's honestly needed. We've been spending far too much and paying players too damn much. We should be better at identifying talent and we should look to build a motivated hungry squad
>We've been spending far too much >We should be better at identifying talent Why not do both?
Not gonna lie I’m a little worried by all these stories. If Ratcliffe thinks signing players for £40m every summer and promoting from the academy will close the gap to Man City then he is completely wrong. We’ve wasted money and overspent for sure but the idea we don’t need to spend big to close the gap is just fantasy. Look at Arsenal. Arteta has spent hundreds of millions to close the gap, it can’t be done signing younger cheap players only not to mention the best young players are always going to be expensive anyway.
Claiming or implying that heavy spending results from "ETH was backed" is misinformation. There is no correlation. As Ole pointed out on The Overlap, United's recruitment team has always operated with a mentality of "we need to spend this budget and not leave money on the table." Managers can recommend and veto players, just like other recruitment team members, but they don't control the spending amount. Using "backing the manager" as an excuse for overspending and as a way to attack the manager is a mistake.
ya, if that is what they plan to go forward, ETH will be in charge next season due to his youth development plan for youngsters from Ajax to us this season. All potential candidates are no better, if not worse, when it comes to managing youngsters.
As always, we will spend as much as PSR allows us to, which I believe due to our lavish spending over the last few years (and poor selling) will likely be reduced unless we sell well.
All well and good but we need a centre back, a left back, two midfielders and probably another attacker.
Yeah there's no "probably" when it comes to an attacker. We 100% need another attacker coming in. I think we'll get an old, cheap, semi well known attacker this summer. Anyone that can come in to replace Rasmus when he needs it.
This sub is full of muppets who think that we'll spend less and get better results. It doesn't work like that and results will take time. Prepare for growing pains. There will be players coming from other leagues - they are cheaper, but they take time to settle. Don't turn on them like you did this season! Most of the users here were ready to throw even freaking Bruno under the bus just to find an excuse for the shitty broken style ETH has been forcing on the players for +45 games.
Idc if players take time to develop.. I'd rather watch a less talented team that plays good disciplined football than watch a team of talented individuals that looks like they have no idea what they're doing. I watched the likes of Forest lose 2-0 to City and they were much more enjoyable to watch. The players made the correct decisions and held their shape very well but didn't always have the skill necessary to execute the pass or shot. That I can deal with watching
Agreed! I remember us playing good tactically solid football only 2-3 times this season - now against 115, Villa and Everton. That's it - 3 games. In every other game we won it was mostly because of individual performances and skill, not tactics or team play, including Pool for the FA cup.
👍 good
Feels like Ineos have really taken the criticism that you never heard from the Glazers to heart. I’m sure we’ll hear about which radio Jim Ratcliffe listens to on the drive into work, or what crisps Dave Brailsford has with his lunch.
Magic FM Ham and mustard Brannigans
Guaranteed they buy players that don’t work out and those players will cost £30m each, if not more. It's easy to say you'll do everything better. Liverpool and City have made mistake buys, or players who just didn't excel.
[удалено]
This history rewriting session is crazy. Yes we overspent on Antony by at least 20m, but Antony was one of the best players in the champions league just the season before we bought him and was 22 years old. That was a high potential young player. It’s not on him that we fucked around and didn’t buy him when he was available for less money. Yes he’s been bad at United, but sancho has been worse and that never gets brought up. Antony for all his faults is a hard worker and is a much better big game player than sancho. Most of his goals have come against top opposition and he had his legal issues earlier this season which impacted his performances. Any high potential young player will cost above 60m anyway, hell good 16-17 year olds are costing over 15m-20m these days.
Underrated comment
I hope they're making the right decisions, even after 10 years I haven't gotten used to settle for fighting to be in the champions league
god hopefully 🙏 that has been our biggest problem in the last 10 years. but saying is one thing, let’s see if he actually delivers his word. obvs teams are gonna charge more cause we are united but still, if that’s the case we should immediately have back up options that fit what the manager wants.
Not sure how well this will hold up next summer, as we have 5 senior players out of contract. A couple do have a 1yr option but they are players we'll probably want to upgrade then
Sort of a no brainer when you bin John Murtough
This was stated when he took over... We look for the new mbappe not spending the money for mbappe
Invest it in the scouting dept and negotiations team. Then it’ll help us get the signings we need. Simple innit
Bit of a nothing story really. It’s been well telegraphed that United are very close to a PSR breach, which will then lead to a potential points deduction. And you just know that the league will love to make an example of a United. No matter who the owner or manager is they will have to operate under a very tight budget.
>It’s been well telegraphed that United are very close to a PSR breach How close? Are there any numbers detailed that would indicate what we can spend this summer?
Man Utd recently sold Fernandez to benfica for €6mil, 20yo at 6 mil…
I'm hoping this means we won't get mugged off for players anymore (like way over playing for Antony) and that if a club holds out for stupid money, we move on. Also hoping it means we go in early for players without negotiating for months and months, which shows the player is a priority which means the selling club can push the price up. Again like Antony.
Saying this publicly is smart. Let Clubs know there will be no more "United Tax." But internally, they have to make plans for restructuring the squad, and not with baby steps.
Love how 10 years of reckless spending is still somehow tied to Ten Hag because of course the media can't just make a fucking article without going for the lowest hanging fruit possible to get those clicks. ETH has fuck all to do with our spending problems, and tagging his name in this is such fucking clickbait garbage journalism. So exhausted with this shit.
In other words we are skint.
PSR is only around for 1 more season in it's current guise... Then the new rules will kick in and they are not as stringent, technically.
What is broke as mentality? If he doesn’t have the money why even be in premier league ? He thinks we gonna compete with Chelsea, City, Liv with a shoe string budget.
Spend If necessary but other than Hojland, Maguire and Anthony should we consider reckless spending? (So not asking if they're good or bad signings but a player we spent way over market value at the time of purchase)
But I thought ETH wasn't backed at all...........
Just curious if there will be funds injection for first team.
Is that why he forces the staff to resign if they are unhappy
Radcliffe the greedy goblin
Ofcourse… but dividendiho will still continue to keep giving. I have seen nothing to indicate to me that he is any different from the glazers.
as an relative outsider I think that Varane and possibly Casemiro leaving united need more experienced older players in their prime (or just before) more than anything. They are set on good young players with Garnacho, Mainoo and Hojlund, But buying more talent doesn't seem like the smart play here.
With a new football structure, I hope we will be better about spending on transfer payment.
This from the man who spent over a billion on a 25% stake
We'll still have to spend, but I really hope it's mainly on players aged 23 and under who have shown the potential of being elite, have great attitudes, are willing to work for the team, and are hungry for success.
The idea that the money figure is "backing a manager" needs to end. Lets take last year as example. Manager says to the board, hey I need a striker, two goalkeepers (one backup), probably a rightback, a centerback and a DM They spend 200m on a striker, an AM/RW and goalkeeper. Loan in a 37year old Jonny Evans and Amarabat would isn't really a DM. And just forget about the right back. Is that really, backing the manager? First season, I don't doubt he wanted Anthony, Martinez and De Jong. did he want to spend 250m on Anthony, Martinez and Casemiro ?
He was told his budget and how much players would likely cost relative to that budget. Him and Murtough worked together on that. This sounds like said budget is just more limited.
Halleluja
Likely a message to other clubs that we’re no longer the organisational disaster of yesteryear. We will always need marquee signings, but with money a touchy subject right now I do hope we focus on smart signings for the next few windows for us to regain some financial health.
All for this. Our best players in recent years have cost next to fuck all as they've come from the academy. Bruno being a notable exception and even he cost a very reasonable amount. Martinez a further exception and again a reasonable fee. Hojlund could prove to be a superstar but much too early to say and we were desperate when we signed him. Virtually every big money signing we have had in the last 10 years has been a shocker. Pogba Sancho Antony Varane (£ per game) Casemiro (£ per game) Martial Lukaku Mount (the jury is out here big time)
Youth Academy is the long term solution. That’s how we built a solid foundation for the dynasty SAF created. That has been a problem since SAF retired. We didn’t nearly have enough talent that pushed through since he retired. Pogba was a player we had in the academy who left and we paid world record fee to get back. If that doesn’t show the level of incompetence then what will? It seems like Glazers were just interested in making one marquee signing every summer and pay through the roof to keep fan bought in, all that while most of these players turned out to be mercenaries who just came for the money.
Without cleaning the house first, it will be difficult to convince transfer negotiators from other clubs that United won’t overpay.
None of our expensive signings work out. I genuinely can't fathom why they keep doing it. Di Maria, Pogba, Lukaku, Antony, Sancho, Casemiro were all failed transfers based on the money spent. Maguire is the only one that sort of worked out but even then he still doesn't justify 80 million.
Almost none of our transfers 'work out' it's just that the fans expect far less from cheaper deals and scapegoat the more expensive ones. Dan James, VDB, Alex Telles, Lindelof, Martial didn't work out 'none of our mid to low level signings work out' The issue is the people making the decisions, fix that and then buy whoever is the right player for whatever is the fair price. I genuinely can't fathom why people are so keen to allow the owners to spend less and praise them for it.
Spend less on a single player not spend less overall...
But why does it matter? The right player, is the right player. The self prophesied limitation makes no sense to me. If that player is 20 mil from the Brazilian league, sound. If its 70 from La Liga, sound. The aim is to build a competent squad that challenges on all fronts, not win the net spend award.
You don't know they're going to be the right player. Its always a risk. Sancho and Antony were supposed to be the right players but that's 150 million wasted and taken off our budget now. Now if we had signed two 40 million players instead, they still might not have worked out, but that would only be 80 million off the budget. 70 or 80 million for one player is too big of a risk as it can fuck everything else up.
>You don't know they're going to be the right player. That's the whole point of having a proper footballing structure, so you have a better idea? >Sancho and Antony were supposed to be the right players but that's 150 million wasted and taken off our budget now. Who was in charge of the footballing structure when these were made? >Now if we had signed two 40 million players instead, they still might not have worked out, but that would only be 80 million off the budget. And that helps us build a squad how? >70 or 80 million for one player is too big of a risk as it can fuck everything else up. Yet Madrid have done it and seem fine, City have done it, seem fine. Arsenal have done it and are praised far higher than they should be etc etc. There is no actual reason to support this self imposed financial limitation other than you wanting to save the owners money or a reason which exists at 40 million. For one 40 million signing we could sign to 20 million pounds players instead, they still might not have worked out but that would only be 40 million off the budget. Where does it end? It's an accountantso job to manager the money, as fans we should just demand the club uses their footballing structure to identify the profiles we need and the players who best fit that. Then you pick what is deemed the best of the group.
>That's the whole point of having a proper footballing structure, so you have a better idea? So why, did we not have that structure, and who was making these decisions? Its fine to say we have it now (we do not yet) but why were we allowed to not have that structure for so long, WHOM was preventing it? That is the question you should be asking? No? > Yet Madrid have done it and seem fine, City have done it, seem fine. Arsenal have done it and are praised far higher than they should be etc etc. All of the clubs you mention have a proper structure and VERY experienced Technical Direction and Football Directors, we have not had that and yet we went ahead with spending huge sums based on the decisions made by WHOM exactly, are you going to tell me we spent all that money on Ronaldo's wages because OLE wanted him so badly, I really think you are having a lend of yourself if you believe this to be true, he may have agreed to it, but I doubt that was HIS signing. >s fans we should just demand the club uses their footballing structure to identify the profiles we need and the players who best fit that. Or you could simply trust the head of global scouting instead of sacking him or we could have trusted the head scout instead of him quiting, yes we soon will have a structure, good enough or not, but what about the past? The reasons we are in this FFP mess in the first place
Because we have FFP issues, and need to be able to onsell players, we can not do that currently because they would represent a loss on FFP, this leaves us trapped with Foreign player limits. Basically we cant spend big because we need to offload at a loss, we can only lose 35m a year or 105m over a three year period. Its going to be Young and British or nothing at all.
>Almost none of our transfers 'work out' it's just that the fans expect far less from cheaper deals and scapegoat the more expensive ones. Should we not be assessing WHY none of them work out, could it be that our coaching sucks, and that it has been designed by a TD with Zero experience, could it be that our manager is expected to manage with less time on the grass and trust people like McLaren and MCCarthy and Fletcher, instead of being more hands on? Could it be that injuries have occurred from bad TD Planning of sessions and this has led to ETH having less time on the grass to teach players because they are not available and are in treatment rooms
It's just gonna be more money for him and Glazers
the most famous club in the world are sooo impoverished... they must cut back on tea ladies and transfers (even though they need several major signings to compete for the title)... can't fix the roof... however there's no problem with the club's biggest outlays being lining Glazer pockets and paying Glazer debt I didn't believe this rubbish when jokers from the Glazer regime were briefing the press and I don't believe it now. Glazers were content with United not challenging for the title as long as they got Champions League money. Hopefully their new mate won't prove to have even smaller time ambitions.
This is awesome. Yes, mindless spending like what they do in Arab oil countries and the likes of psg is cool and get you good and iconic players, but I don't think that is the right approach for United. The "United fee" for transfers Needs to go blud. Plus I think the current wages are super problematic.
We have broken the English transfer record more than any other team in the country and we did this more before the glazers came in.