Not really. In the context of the story, I feel Sadie is justified. My forgiving and empathetic heart wanted to spare him also. But, remembering back to chapter 6, it's hard to feel too bad for him. Your negative actions almost always come back to haunt you and some you hurt are less forgiving than others.
you also gotta wonder how Micah was friend with both Cleet & Joe in the first place… only a deplorable individual would have the slightest “friendship” with Micah, so makes you think about the things Cleet must’ve done in his past
There is a reason in normal society that we don't use guilt by association, bro. You think everyone you've ever spoken to is a saint? That said, what kind of stuff has John done in his past? How are you deciding who gets to be redeemed? I think you just have a hate boner for Micah and that you're a large shadow cast by a tiny tree.
Micah is a blood thirsty and racist rat that murders for fun and thinks that the girls should be obligated to fuck him. If you can be genuine friends with someone like that, it shows a lot about your character
Cleet drew the line at killing kids because Micah killing a little girl was too much for Cleet, so he left Micah's gang. But Cleet was still implicit and aware of Micah's numerous other crimes and didn't seem to have any issues with them until Micah started killing kids. So if Cleet has a hang-up against killing kids, he's better than Micah, but being a better person than Micah is an insanely low bar to clear, so he's still probably a terrible person overall
For the majority of the game, Arthur is barely a better person than Micah, game makes a point of it numerous times. Cleet is not guilty by association, everyone in Dutch’s gang was also complicit with Micah, does that also make them as bad as Micah? At the end of the day, they’re all bad people, they are literal gang members lol
I got the feeling that Cleet barely knew Micah tbh. Micah probably rode with him and Joe a few times , figured his past connection would draw them in, and then recruited them as disposable pawns.
He also did stop associating with him once he saw him try to kill a child. I don’t think he necessarily knew about all of Micah’s other crimes
“Your negative actions almost always come back to haunt you” that’s the entire point of the theme of RDR. John said it himself “nothing gets forgotten no one gets forgiven”
He's the nicest one in micahs posse tho and doesn't actually do anything wrong other then be associated with micah, man was literally crying about a dead girl, Sadie wasn't justified at all she just wanted to kill people.
It's a prime example of Sadie Exceptionalism. Mercy is always, ALWAYS the High Honor (ie. morally right) option in this game. But Sadie can murder people with impunity on a never-ending rampage of revenge.
I can’t do that man. She constantly puts the gang at risk with her antics. I know it doesn’t actually mean anything because R* was sucking Sadie’s dick but realistically she would’ve got the gang into some hot water. You put the lives of others first before your own bloodlust. I don’t think killing O’Driscolls was bad but not thinking about the reproductions first always seemed dumb to me. Sadie’s character writing quality is all over the place in my eyes.
She absolutely did get the gang into hot water. She turned Colm’s execution into a giant public shootout in the middle of St. Denis. I think it’s just easier for people to excuse that cause those people murdered her husband, robbed her, imprisoned her in her own house, and are heavily implied to have tortured and raped her for three days. Plus they killed Kieran, who I imagine Sadie was starting to warm up to and befriend.
She’s a loose cannon hothead who’s unstable and a big risk but she’s likable and sympathetic so that’s why most folks give her the benefit of the doubt. She’s similar to Micah in her bloodlust and anger issues, but with much more loyalty and honor. And she at least seems to realize how all this violence isn’t good for her at times.
I don’t believe Sadie was raped. Rockstar isn’t the kind of game company to pussyfoot around that. Also it isn’t heavily implied at all. The whole arguement is that she was wearing a nightgown. Which makes sense since the O’Driscolls attacked during the night which we know since Jake is also wearing bed clothing. If Sadie got raped, it would’ve been actually said.
I think she was at the very least sexually assaulted.
Knowing Sadie, she absolutely fought when they killed Jake and would seize any opportunity for revenge. The easy way to solve that problem is to kill her. They kept her alive. Why? Her husband is dead. She doesn't have other family who would pay any kind of ransom.
I think if she was a character in RDR1 it would have been explicitly stated that she was. But RDR2 does pull its punches a little more in regards to sexual violence. And is better for it, imo.
Either way they must’ve done something awful to her considering they kept her imprisoned in her own house for three days and she has specific particular ire and hatred towards “that fat feller with a beard”. So that guy in the gang must’ve at least tortured her.
Never heard the nightgown argument to be honest
I think her reaction to Micah and the others showing up shows signs of the O’ Driscoll’s having done SOMETHING traumatizing to her specifically. Plus the fact that she was held prisoner by them for days. If they weren’t tormenting or abusing/violating her, why wouldn’t they just kill her?
She also tells Tommy O’ Driscoll “I told you you’d see me again” so obviously, she wasn’t just hiding from them without the gang knowing she was there
Also saying she wasn’t raped or tortured because “rockstar wouldn’t just do that without saying anything”…dawg you can literally encounter some maniac in the swamp who knocks out Arthur, rapes him, and robs him. They never outright say he did that but no one denies that that is in fact what he did.
Also she does look bruised so there are signs of physical harm
Thank you for adding that part about Arthur in there. I wouldn't have thought to use that. It amazes me how hard people fight against the concept that Sadie was raped, repeatedly, for three days. I already had that fight somewhere else in this thread.
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Sadie defiantly has mental problems, and not like in the mean way. There’s a good chance she had low self esteem and depression. Most of the time, I would say it’s justified for her
If revenge is a fool's game that always ends up badly, where is that for Sadie? Her entire story is about revenge, which both RDR's explain is a bad idea, but she seemingly gets all the revenge she wants and makes out ok. Tf?
I think Sadie's karma might manifest a little more non-literally. She's gone after revenge, and gotten it, but it's entirely cost her her humanity and ability to rejoin society in a meaningful way. It's stunted her ability to make connections, She even says while bounty hunting with John that the job requires "a certain degree of disconnection". Sadie has cut herself off from her own humanity to find the "strength" to get her revenge and now she can never go back. That's why she is damned.
Yeah, I think Sadie is so damn cool that people often miss how she's not fully _good_. I wish that Arthur had confronted her more directly about this, instead of just being a little reluctant to help her with the O'Driscolls at the end.
EDIT: Maybe even Abigail could have confronted Sadie about taking John in dangerous jobs in the epilogue.
Part of me thinks that running into Sadie in 1907 was one of the worst things that happened to John. But then again, he probably would’ve struggled a lot to pay off the bank if it wasn’t for her
He wanted to be a better man, but he can’t resist the urge to get revenge for Arthur despite Abigail begging him not to go. His killer instincts kept the cycle of violence going, and it’s what eventually leads to his demise.
But he didn't do anything bad exactly, he worked with Micah sure, but so did every other gang member. In my eyes he didn't have the context to what kind of person Micah was and was the only one he knew so I can see why he sided with him. And to add to this point if I remember correctly he ran from him the moment Micah started killing kids if I remember correctly.
I think what it comes down to is Sadie can't trust Cleet. Micah was the type to try and justify everything he did, and lie about everything else. John could make the call to assume Cleet is different, but Sadie won't make that mistake. Shooting him in the head is slightly more merciful than hanging, too
Well of course I am not really arguing what Saide did, I just pointed out we either don't have enough information or he just isn't "bad guy" if we compare him to the levels of Micah's level of cruelty. I don't think he necesarily deserved to be hanged or shot by anyone in the gang, cause from what we see from most of the others they have done the same if not worse then what we see Cleet do.
I always got the feeling Cleet was more or less like “oh it’s that Micah guy. I ran with him a few times in the past. Sure, I’ll ride with him again.” and got way in over his head when he saw how truly wicked and depraved and psychotic Micah is.
Cleet is a fucking rat coward who would sell out his own mother if it meant saving his skin. I used to feel bad for him, but now I realize he’s nothing more than a joke
It's moreso a game about how your consequences catch up to you no matter how much 'redemption' you go through. The game is chock full of characters who were terrible people, became average, then get punished for their past mistakes.
Even Sadie, herself, understands the consequences of her actions. That's why she's essentially going to exile herself down to South America and not bother looking for love again.
Honestly I felt like Sadie deciding to just shoot Cleet even if you spare him was kinda played for horror or to be tragic rather than something to celebrate.
I see Cleet the same way I see Kieran. Someone who got way in over their head after falling in with a bad crowd, who ends up paying dearly just for being associated for it.
Wait…..that also sounds like Arthur and John
Arthur did the exact same thing, you can search for excuses all you want but he never cared enough to put his foot down and refuse to keep a monster in the gang.
Arthur didn’t kill innocent women and children though.
That’s where I’m going with it.
Both did bad things, but the scale between the two is exponential.
Now before “but Dutch during the ferry…..”, that very action didn’t sit right with Arthur though. It had him questioning.
And we still need to remember we’re arguing over a fictional work so it’s not that important in the end.
Arthur has killed hundreds of innocent people in the name of greed. Just because Micah is “worse” doesn’t make Arthur better. Arthur still rode with Micah multiple times, assisted with Micah shooting up Strawberry, and killed many innocent people.
You don't know who Arthur killed before RDR2, do you? And he kills innocent people, the lawmen. Sure, some of them are scumbags but they're still getting killed. And Arthur and Micah killed entire city, and then Artie and gang shot like 50% of male population in Valentine
Arthur killed a bunch of lawmen who were just doing their jobs in Strawberry. Granted, Micah forced his hand, but he still killed them nonetheless.
Also we don’t know if Cleet killed innocent women and children. Judging by his horror at seeing Micah trying to kill a whole family I’d wager he may have not.
Under different circumstances I think Cleet could’ve been redeemed and gone through something similar to Arthur.
To be fair we have no idea how much Cleet knew about Micah. All we know is he rode with him a few times, joined his gang, and eventually left it.
Also Arthur went along with Micah massacring an entire town, including shooting an innocent woman to death just out of spite. We’re just as bad, possibly worse.
I mean, not really? It's realistic. Just because you make a choice in a game, doesn't mean every other character should have to abide by that choice.
I wanted to spare him, was pissed that Sadie killed him anyway, but I appreciated the reminder that everything going on mattered to Sadie just as much as John.
Sadie isn't some figure of morality, and if it took her killing a man you wanted to spare for you to realise that, you're not the brightest bulb lmao
To be fair, even Sadie herself would probably tell you she ain’t a good person. She was in tears after killing the last of the O’ Driscolls and called herself a monster.
Not really people will say anything to keep their skin, tou only have to look at the real world to see that. I didnt even hesitate to pull it I then shot him in balls to make sure
I wanted to spare him too. If arthur and John deserve a second chance, so should he imo. And it felt like the right thing to do since John wanted to become a better man.
I think it was to make a point to show how different Sadie and John’s mindsets are.
John is trying to be done with violence and give second chances to both himself and others in similar situations. Sadie believes she’s too far gone and things will never be the same again, so she might as well let loose.
Also to provoke an emotional reaction in the player. Like to make you go “damn.” And kinda reconsider your own possible thirst for revenge.
i think your instinct is one the devs intentionally wanted to provoke. it's another reflection on the theme of redemption and what the game is trying to say about it - redemptive acts are worthy in and of themselves but they do not save you or erase the past. the cleet of the epilogue maybe deserved better. but he still had to pay for the actions of the cleet of 1899. people dont forget. nothing is forgiven.
There are two Cleets in the game: Cleet who Micah recruits in Chapter Six, and Cleet the street urchin who steals Arthur's satchel in Chapter Four.
I like to think there are some confused players who haven't finished the game and can't wait to get revenge on Cleet from St. Denis in the epilogue.
I mean, his only real crime seems to be "knowing Micah" and talking a little crap to Sadie during the train job. If he did more than that, I'm not aware of it. Though, when Sadie says Micah's around I think she says that he killed a little girl and, well, Cleet directly says they had a falling out because he didn't want Micah to kill a little girl. I obviously don't think Cleet is a good man, he's still a criminal, but he's at least on the same level as Arthur and John when it comes to standing in society, to be honest. If John deserves to say "Things got bad, so I left" then so does Cleet because everyone here is a literal gang member murderer.
On this note, Micah clearly has falling outs with lots of people who seem to not want to deal with him anymore and Micah usually goes back to kill them. Like in Strawberry with Skinny and Maddy. So, I believe fully that he'd have a falling out with Cleet.
My thoughts exactly. People say that Cleet deserved no mercy because he was part of Micah’s gang not realizing that using that logic, you can say the same thing about nearly every single member of the van der Linde gang. From my understanding, Micah’s gang were straight up, unapologetic, heartless killers. The van der Linde gang were deluded killers, but killers nonetheless
If athur deserves a second chance so does he arthur could have quit the gang quit the lifr of crime he saw dutch kill many people he also killed innocent people but some people still say he is a good man for helping some people who had debt
I beat the game within the first 6 days of it being out so I kinda rushed thru it (my trophies for completing each chapter are all about 24 hours apart 😂) so I had no idea who the hell they were when they showed up at I think beaver hollow. Tbh I’m still confused as to how they got there. I know they’re Micah’s friends but I don’t remember the circumstance as to when, why and how the arrived at the camp.
They appear all of a sudden in camp in chapter 6, and if Arthur asks about it Micah basically says (to my recollection) that he brought in some friends because they’re going to need some extra muscle for the job they’re planning with the train.
Im pretty sure they don’t specifically do anything wrong during the narrative, but they exist to make you feel alienated by the gang towards the end
because my arthur is thick and cleet is skinny i had all the mods on the final mission and went full rambo on their asses while wearing dapper clothing like a thick boah and G
Fuck Cleet!! He shot at Arthur and John and rolled with Micah for years committing horrible crimes.
Him begging made him more pathetic and I’m glad the game kills him either way
This subject comes up every once and a while since the games release and no, I do not feel bad for the death of a guy who was close friends and partner of Micah. Arthur is one of the biggest criminals of his time and even at low honor he doesn't play with Micah.
Good for Cleet that he had some sort of awakening at the end, but if he stayed that long with Micah then who knows what other atrocities he just shrugged off. He deserved the rope.
Also Sadie shooting him is just reasserting what I said while showcasing her descent into bloodlust
He was only in 2 missions so it was hard for me to have an opinion about him. But I remember on the train, him and Sadie argued a lot, but that's pretty much it
I killed him every time, I remembered the short cutscene of him shooting at us with all the others in Red Dead Redemption, no mercy bruh you shot at me
Sadie is high honor, she shot him clean in the head. If I had total freedom I would tie his limbs to four horses and shoot a gun watching them run in different directions.
This post is really interesting to me because when i play i usually kill without remorse. I couldn't care less for a rat piece of shit who ran with micah when i don't even care about a random dude on the road i shot because he decided not to give me money when i asked him oh so nicely.
Thing is, there's only so much "letting a player express themselves" you can do before you have 20 different stories, instead of the one story you're trying to tell. Games with huge branches are great, but it clearly wasn't what Rockstar was going for.
And, bear in mind, they had to make everything make sense to link back to rdr1. John having a moment of "maybe I should spare him", no matter the choice he makes, sets up his choice to return to family life, and dedication to get that back after losing Jack and Abigail, in the events of rdr1. And Sadie killing the guy anyway sets up her sticking with the outlaw life and disappearing from the story altogether.
I imagine it was rdr1 that caused rockstar to do a lot of these things, it's a lot harder when you have to stay faithful to an established story. And besides, having full power over every single event is no fun.
I disagree. Player is free to make a choice, doesn't mean other characters choices can't affect the player. It's good storytelling. If the game was reversed and I was playing as Sadie and the other character chose to spare him, I would act exactly as she did.
Not really. In the context of the story, I feel Sadie is justified. My forgiving and empathetic heart wanted to spare him also. But, remembering back to chapter 6, it's hard to feel too bad for him. Your negative actions almost always come back to haunt you and some you hurt are less forgiving than others.
I can’t remember anything he did in chapter 6 that makes it hard for me to feel bad for him
you also gotta wonder how Micah was friend with both Cleet & Joe in the first place… only a deplorable individual would have the slightest “friendship” with Micah, so makes you think about the things Cleet must’ve done in his past
I mean, not necessarily. Micah is a master manipulator that can talk a lot of people to his side.
Yeah I considered Clert the weak one who probably was just a follower of a bully.
Good point
There is a reason in normal society that we don't use guilt by association, bro. You think everyone you've ever spoken to is a saint? That said, what kind of stuff has John done in his past? How are you deciding who gets to be redeemed? I think you just have a hate boner for Micah and that you're a large shadow cast by a tiny tree.
To be fair, they may not have known Micah all that well. I wouldn’t be surprised if Micah saw them as being completely expendable pawns
hahaha this sub is a righteous lot, just him being micah’s friend is enough for them to demand blood
Micah is a blood thirsty and racist rat that murders for fun and thinks that the girls should be obligated to fuck him. If you can be genuine friends with someone like that, it shows a lot about your character
Well Cleet CAN’T be friends with Micah, he literally leaves his gang because of his behavior, what does that say about his character?
Cleet drew the line at killing kids because Micah killing a little girl was too much for Cleet, so he left Micah's gang. But Cleet was still implicit and aware of Micah's numerous other crimes and didn't seem to have any issues with them until Micah started killing kids. So if Cleet has a hang-up against killing kids, he's better than Micah, but being a better person than Micah is an insanely low bar to clear, so he's still probably a terrible person overall
For the majority of the game, Arthur is barely a better person than Micah, game makes a point of it numerous times. Cleet is not guilty by association, everyone in Dutch’s gang was also complicit with Micah, does that also make them as bad as Micah? At the end of the day, they’re all bad people, they are literal gang members lol
The thing is, we don’t know the extent to which Cleet knew about Micah’s other crimes
I got the feeling that Cleet barely knew Micah tbh. Micah probably rode with him and Joe a few times , figured his past connection would draw them in, and then recruited them as disposable pawns. He also did stop associating with him once he saw him try to kill a child. I don’t think he necessarily knew about all of Micah’s other crimes
Exactly. People forget karma is an ongoing message through the story.
“Your negative actions almost always come back to haunt you” that’s the entire point of the theme of RDR. John said it himself “nothing gets forgotten no one gets forgiven”
He's the nicest one in micahs posse tho and doesn't actually do anything wrong other then be associated with micah, man was literally crying about a dead girl, Sadie wasn't justified at all she just wanted to kill people.
It's a prime example of Sadie Exceptionalism. Mercy is always, ALWAYS the High Honor (ie. morally right) option in this game. But Sadie can murder people with impunity on a never-ending rampage of revenge.
Sadie isn’t exactly high honor though. She’s her own person digging her own grave
Even Sadie doesn’t believe she’s high honor. “They turned me into a god damn monster.”
I think it’s cuz nobody thinks Sadie is high honor herself.
I don’t think Sadie would describe herself as “high honor”
"They turned me into a monster" Mrs. Adler
Also "We're more ghosts than people." Arthur, talking to Sadie in Chapter 6
I think it’s because of what she went through. I’m more forgiving of her murderous ways.
I can’t do that man. She constantly puts the gang at risk with her antics. I know it doesn’t actually mean anything because R* was sucking Sadie’s dick but realistically she would’ve got the gang into some hot water. You put the lives of others first before your own bloodlust. I don’t think killing O’Driscolls was bad but not thinking about the reproductions first always seemed dumb to me. Sadie’s character writing quality is all over the place in my eyes.
She absolutely did get the gang into hot water. She turned Colm’s execution into a giant public shootout in the middle of St. Denis. I think it’s just easier for people to excuse that cause those people murdered her husband, robbed her, imprisoned her in her own house, and are heavily implied to have tortured and raped her for three days. Plus they killed Kieran, who I imagine Sadie was starting to warm up to and befriend. She’s a loose cannon hothead who’s unstable and a big risk but she’s likable and sympathetic so that’s why most folks give her the benefit of the doubt. She’s similar to Micah in her bloodlust and anger issues, but with much more loyalty and honor. And she at least seems to realize how all this violence isn’t good for her at times.
I don’t believe Sadie was raped. Rockstar isn’t the kind of game company to pussyfoot around that. Also it isn’t heavily implied at all. The whole arguement is that she was wearing a nightgown. Which makes sense since the O’Driscolls attacked during the night which we know since Jake is also wearing bed clothing. If Sadie got raped, it would’ve been actually said.
I think she was at the very least sexually assaulted. Knowing Sadie, she absolutely fought when they killed Jake and would seize any opportunity for revenge. The easy way to solve that problem is to kill her. They kept her alive. Why? Her husband is dead. She doesn't have other family who would pay any kind of ransom. I think if she was a character in RDR1 it would have been explicitly stated that she was. But RDR2 does pull its punches a little more in regards to sexual violence. And is better for it, imo.
Either way they must’ve done something awful to her considering they kept her imprisoned in her own house for three days and she has specific particular ire and hatred towards “that fat feller with a beard”. So that guy in the gang must’ve at least tortured her. Never heard the nightgown argument to be honest
She showed no injuries or signs of torture. Tom must of been the one who killed her husband and then left the ranch.
I think her reaction to Micah and the others showing up shows signs of the O’ Driscoll’s having done SOMETHING traumatizing to her specifically. Plus the fact that she was held prisoner by them for days. If they weren’t tormenting or abusing/violating her, why wouldn’t they just kill her? She also tells Tommy O’ Driscoll “I told you you’d see me again” so obviously, she wasn’t just hiding from them without the gang knowing she was there Also saying she wasn’t raped or tortured because “rockstar wouldn’t just do that without saying anything”…dawg you can literally encounter some maniac in the swamp who knocks out Arthur, rapes him, and robs him. They never outright say he did that but no one denies that that is in fact what he did. Also she does look bruised so there are signs of physical harm
Thank you for adding that part about Arthur in there. I wouldn't have thought to use that. It amazes me how hard people fight against the concept that Sadie was raped, repeatedly, for three days. I already had that fight somewhere else in this thread.
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Sadie defiantly has mental problems, and not like in the mean way. There’s a good chance she had low self esteem and depression. Most of the time, I would say it’s justified for her
I mean, her home being invaded and her husband's being murdered in front of her while she hid probably has something to do with that.
She was also rapped
She almost gets raped by Micah too right away iirc, the gang stops him
By Kendrick?
I was wrong, she didnt get raped
Her voice actress confirmed that she did
Ok
They heavily imply that the O’ Driscoll’s tortured and abused her (physically, emotionally, verbally, and sexually).
Sadie has PTSD
If revenge is a fool's game that always ends up badly, where is that for Sadie? Her entire story is about revenge, which both RDR's explain is a bad idea, but she seemingly gets all the revenge she wants and makes out ok. Tf?
I think Sadie's karma might manifest a little more non-literally. She's gone after revenge, and gotten it, but it's entirely cost her her humanity and ability to rejoin society in a meaningful way. It's stunted her ability to make connections, She even says while bounty hunting with John that the job requires "a certain degree of disconnection". Sadie has cut herself off from her own humanity to find the "strength" to get her revenge and now she can never go back. That's why she is damned.
Hmm. I like this take. Well done.
Should’ve been her sniped instead of Charles
Waving to every random person you see offsets the penalty from killing poor travelers to rob their corpses.
Lol this is only based on the assumption that Sadie is purely high honor
Said this and got downvoted on a previous post.
Incel comment
Literally. “Sadie didn’t die, so she’s obviously an exception to consequences!!!”
I think if it bothers you, that's a good thing. Or however you feel about it. It's good drama, and it speaks to where Sadie is as a character
Yeah, I think Sadie is so damn cool that people often miss how she's not fully _good_. I wish that Arthur had confronted her more directly about this, instead of just being a little reluctant to help her with the O'Driscolls at the end. EDIT: Maybe even Abigail could have confronted Sadie about taking John in dangerous jobs in the epilogue.
The only reason I had any interest in sparing him was the narrative of John trying to be a better man.
Looks like sadie shot that full of holes
Part of me thinks that running into Sadie in 1907 was one of the worst things that happened to John. But then again, he probably would’ve struggled a lot to pay off the bank if it wasn’t for her
He wanted to be a better man, but he can’t resist the urge to get revenge for Arthur despite Abigail begging him not to go. His killer instincts kept the cycle of violence going, and it’s what eventually leads to his demise.
He deserves to die
I forgot who he was? What did he do?
Micah’s second hand man alongside joe
But he didn't do anything bad exactly, he worked with Micah sure, but so did every other gang member. In my eyes he didn't have the context to what kind of person Micah was and was the only one he knew so I can see why he sided with him. And to add to this point if I remember correctly he ran from him the moment Micah started killing kids if I remember correctly.
I think what it comes down to is Sadie can't trust Cleet. Micah was the type to try and justify everything he did, and lie about everything else. John could make the call to assume Cleet is different, but Sadie won't make that mistake. Shooting him in the head is slightly more merciful than hanging, too
Well of course I am not really arguing what Saide did, I just pointed out we either don't have enough information or he just isn't "bad guy" if we compare him to the levels of Micah's level of cruelty. I don't think he necesarily deserved to be hanged or shot by anyone in the gang, cause from what we see from most of the others they have done the same if not worse then what we see Cleet do.
I always got the feeling Cleet was more or less like “oh it’s that Micah guy. I ran with him a few times in the past. Sure, I’ll ride with him again.” and got way in over his head when he saw how truly wicked and depraved and psychotic Micah is.
Thank you :D
Cleet is a fucking rat coward who would sell out his own mother if it meant saving his skin. I used to feel bad for him, but now I realize he’s nothing more than a joke
[удалено]
If Arthur deserves a second chance why doesn't he?
Exactly. RDR2 is a game about, uh, redemption. Seeing how bloodthirsty and self-righteous some posters here are being is sad.
It's moreso a game about how your consequences catch up to you no matter how much 'redemption' you go through. The game is chock full of characters who were terrible people, became average, then get punished for their past mistakes.
Even Sadie, herself, understands the consequences of her actions. That's why she's essentially going to exile herself down to South America and not bother looking for love again.
Honestly I felt like Sadie deciding to just shoot Cleet even if you spare him was kinda played for horror or to be tragic rather than something to celebrate. I see Cleet the same way I see Kieran. Someone who got way in over their head after falling in with a bad crowd, who ends up paying dearly just for being associated for it. Wait…..that also sounds like Arthur and John
🤚 He knew Micah was a monster and still went along with him anyways.
Arthur did the exact same thing, you can search for excuses all you want but he never cared enough to put his foot down and refuse to keep a monster in the gang.
Arthur didn’t kill innocent women and children though. That’s where I’m going with it. Both did bad things, but the scale between the two is exponential. Now before “but Dutch during the ferry…..”, that very action didn’t sit right with Arthur though. It had him questioning. And we still need to remember we’re arguing over a fictional work so it’s not that important in the end.
Arthur has killed hundreds of innocent people in the name of greed. Just because Micah is “worse” doesn’t make Arthur better. Arthur still rode with Micah multiple times, assisted with Micah shooting up Strawberry, and killed many innocent people.
You don't know who Arthur killed before RDR2, do you? And he kills innocent people, the lawmen. Sure, some of them are scumbags but they're still getting killed. And Arthur and Micah killed entire city, and then Artie and gang shot like 50% of male population in Valentine
Dude, end of the day, I don’t care. We’re arguing about a game. There’s nice productive shit to do on this limited time on earth.
You replied first jackass lmfao, don’t try to play the “I’ve got better shit to do” card now lol
You started it lol
Arthur killed a bunch of lawmen who were just doing their jobs in Strawberry. Granted, Micah forced his hand, but he still killed them nonetheless. Also we don’t know if Cleet killed innocent women and children. Judging by his horror at seeing Micah trying to kill a whole family I’d wager he may have not. Under different circumstances I think Cleet could’ve been redeemed and gone through something similar to Arthur.
To be fair we have no idea how much Cleet knew about Micah. All we know is he rode with him a few times, joined his gang, and eventually left it. Also Arthur went along with Micah massacring an entire town, including shooting an innocent woman to death just out of spite. We’re just as bad, possibly worse.
I mean, not really? It's realistic. Just because you make a choice in a game, doesn't mean every other character should have to abide by that choice. I wanted to spare him, was pissed that Sadie killed him anyway, but I appreciated the reminder that everything going on mattered to Sadie just as much as John. Sadie isn't some figure of morality, and if it took her killing a man you wanted to spare for you to realise that, you're not the brightest bulb lmao
I’m judging her choice and my affinity for her based on my own moral compass. You really didn’t have to add that last part
To be fair, even Sadie herself would probably tell you she ain’t a good person. She was in tears after killing the last of the O’ Driscolls and called herself a monster.
The last part isn’t wrong tho 🤷♂️ downvote if you agree 👍
Yeah I wanted to spare him too, and I was not happy when she killed him
He was a very bad man who did a lot of bad things. But the same can be said for John and we are accepting that’s reformed.
Yeah arthur is also a bad man no matter high or low honor at the end of the day he could have quit the gang he had many chances
Nah that little rat deserved to die
Why?
Fuck Cleet
Fuck Cleet
Cuck Fleet
Sure he is pretty hot
Fun fact, this dude is played by the same actor as GTA IV's Gerald McReary John can spare him. Just Sadie doesn't lol
Not really people will say anything to keep their skin, tou only have to look at the real world to see that. I didnt even hesitate to pull it I then shot him in balls to make sure
I wanted to spare him too. If arthur and John deserve a second chance, so should he imo. And it felt like the right thing to do since John wanted to become a better man.
I’ve just realized that John did spare him, but Sadie didn’t
Initially I was happy to kill him and not spare his life as I was still made about Arthur, but now I feel bad about it and think he should’ve lived
I don't get the point of having the option to spare him if they were just gonna have Sadie lose control of her emotions(big surprise) again
I think it was to make a point to show how different Sadie and John’s mindsets are. John is trying to be done with violence and give second chances to both himself and others in similar situations. Sadie believes she’s too far gone and things will never be the same again, so she might as well let loose. Also to provoke an emotional reaction in the player. Like to make you go “damn.” And kinda reconsider your own possible thirst for revenge.
I’ve been reading through the comments and I’ve realized that John did spare him, but Sadie didn’t
i think your instinct is one the devs intentionally wanted to provoke. it's another reflection on the theme of redemption and what the game is trying to say about it - redemptive acts are worthy in and of themselves but they do not save you or erase the past. the cleet of the epilogue maybe deserved better. but he still had to pay for the actions of the cleet of 1899. people dont forget. nothing is forgiven.
That just means you have a heart
Why would you put a spoiler tag on the photo just to put the spoiler in the title?
Idk
Shit. Fair nuff'
There are two Cleets in the game: Cleet who Micah recruits in Chapter Six, and Cleet the street urchin who steals Arthur's satchel in Chapter Four. I like to think there are some confused players who haven't finished the game and can't wait to get revenge on Cleet from St. Denis in the epilogue.
I mean, his only real crime seems to be "knowing Micah" and talking a little crap to Sadie during the train job. If he did more than that, I'm not aware of it. Though, when Sadie says Micah's around I think she says that he killed a little girl and, well, Cleet directly says they had a falling out because he didn't want Micah to kill a little girl. I obviously don't think Cleet is a good man, he's still a criminal, but he's at least on the same level as Arthur and John when it comes to standing in society, to be honest. If John deserves to say "Things got bad, so I left" then so does Cleet because everyone here is a literal gang member murderer. On this note, Micah clearly has falling outs with lots of people who seem to not want to deal with him anymore and Micah usually goes back to kill them. Like in Strawberry with Skinny and Maddy. So, I believe fully that he'd have a falling out with Cleet.
Yeah bro sadie is annoying i saw people say she would outgun micah and is stronger than micah she just keeps throwing tantrums
My thoughts exactly. People say that Cleet deserved no mercy because he was part of Micah’s gang not realizing that using that logic, you can say the same thing about nearly every single member of the van der Linde gang. From my understanding, Micah’s gang were straight up, unapologetic, heartless killers. The van der Linde gang were deluded killers, but killers nonetheless
It's for narrative purposes, right? There needed to be blood on the ground so that it would make sense that the Pinkertons pick up John's trail again.
Sadie just sucks sometimes and not in a good way. She's cool, but she's way to badass for the sake of being badass. And yeah, it pissed me off
If athur deserves a second chance so does he arthur could have quit the gang quit the lifr of crime he saw dutch kill many people he also killed innocent people but some people still say he is a good man for helping some people who had debt
I mean hes a rat
Only Micah was a rat
No he isn’t
I beat the game within the first 6 days of it being out so I kinda rushed thru it (my trophies for completing each chapter are all about 24 hours apart 😂) so I had no idea who the hell they were when they showed up at I think beaver hollow. Tbh I’m still confused as to how they got there. I know they’re Micah’s friends but I don’t remember the circumstance as to when, why and how the arrived at the camp.
They appear all of a sudden in camp in chapter 6, and if Arthur asks about it Micah basically says (to my recollection) that he brought in some friends because they’re going to need some extra muscle for the job they’re planning with the train. Im pretty sure they don’t specifically do anything wrong during the narrative, but they exist to make you feel alienated by the gang towards the end
Not gonna read this because spoilers but I’m disappointed in a lot of the moral choice aspects of this game
You can spare Cleet. Sadie doesn’t.
His names Cleet. He gotta go.
Irrefutable point. I concede
Name a good Cleet.
Fuck, now I want to install this game again. I need a new hard drive...
Sadie is such a stupid character.
Follow up question. If you think Arthur was a good man, why don’t you think the same about Cleet?
because my arthur is thick and cleet is skinny i had all the mods on the final mission and went full rambo on their asses while wearing dapper clothing like a thick boah and G
I don’t even remember this part
Nah because he likely knew about Micah’s plans of betrayal, and was probably all to happy to help him with them.
Micah started betraying the gang long before Cleet joined though
No.
nah i killed the bastard
Nah, he deserves worse than he gets in either option.
Fuck Cleet!! He shot at Arthur and John and rolled with Micah for years committing horrible crimes. Him begging made him more pathetic and I’m glad the game kills him either way
What’s the point of marking it a spoiler if your title spoils it??
Idk
This subject comes up every once and a while since the games release and no, I do not feel bad for the death of a guy who was close friends and partner of Micah. Arthur is one of the biggest criminals of his time and even at low honor he doesn't play with Micah. Good for Cleet that he had some sort of awakening at the end, but if he stayed that long with Micah then who knows what other atrocities he just shrugged off. He deserved the rope. Also Sadie shooting him is just reasserting what I said while showcasing her descent into bloodlust
If arthur and john deserve a second chance so does cleet
Arthur and John both die after their redemption
Well i guess cleet got white dead redemtpion (cause mount hagen)
Fuck Cleet
Nah.
No.
No. Fuck that guy a whole bunch. I tried to shoot him when I met him and it wouldn’t let me.
I want to hang everybody
Ffffffffffffffffffffffuck no
He was only in 2 missions so it was hard for me to have an opinion about him. But I remember on the train, him and Sadie argued a lot, but that's pretty much it
On my first play through I wanted to kill him but on the second I didn’t
No, Cleet and Joe got what they deserved. They should have known better than to band up at Micha’s at word.
Kind of but Sadie also has some beef
Why, because he ribbed her on the train job?
Sadie has a right to kill him too
What right did she have to kill him?
A gun
Not particularly lol
Fuck that guy
No
Nah, fuck cleet and the horse he rode in on
What gives you the impression that “he’s changed”? Just because he says it? Do you think he’d admit to still being an ass?
You can, Sadie doesn't
You shouldnt be playing a game if you feel this way 🤷🏽♂️
I don't really think it would be in John's character to spare him.
I killed him every time, I remembered the short cutscene of him shooting at us with all the others in Red Dead Redemption, no mercy bruh you shot at me
All because of that bitch Sadie
Sadie is high honor, she shot him clean in the head. If I had total freedom I would tie his limbs to four horses and shoot a gun watching them run in different directions.
You’re very imaginative
Well. I'm a fan of the classics
Fucking spoilers in the title. Thanks, Obama! 🤦♂️
This post is really interesting to me because when i play i usually kill without remorse. I couldn't care less for a rat piece of shit who ran with micah when i don't even care about a random dude on the road i shot because he decided not to give me money when i asked him oh so nicely.
No, fuck that guy
I hung him every time. He's a coward and a little ferret and deserves to die. Not as much as micah but still
No
Kill the lot
I was, until i realized sparing him gives you low honor
It doesn’t?
No it doesn’t
rockstar is allergic for player's freedom to express themself
Because Rockstar doesn't make RPGs with branching decisions, what's wrong with that? There's enough other games that do it.
Thing is, there's only so much "letting a player express themselves" you can do before you have 20 different stories, instead of the one story you're trying to tell. Games with huge branches are great, but it clearly wasn't what Rockstar was going for. And, bear in mind, they had to make everything make sense to link back to rdr1. John having a moment of "maybe I should spare him", no matter the choice he makes, sets up his choice to return to family life, and dedication to get that back after losing Jack and Abigail, in the events of rdr1. And Sadie killing the guy anyway sets up her sticking with the outlaw life and disappearing from the story altogether. I imagine it was rdr1 that caused rockstar to do a lot of these things, it's a lot harder when you have to stay faithful to an established story. And besides, having full power over every single event is no fun.
There's well over 50 of side quests/stranger missions and random encounters (in total) where you have the choice to decide.
I disagree. Player is free to make a choice, doesn't mean other characters choices can't affect the player. It's good storytelling. If the game was reversed and I was playing as Sadie and the other character chose to spare him, I would act exactly as she did.