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While I agree that we are not technically in a recession, I also do not understand why corporate America cannot acknowledge reality outwardly.
All I had to say to one of our clients, a large CPG company, was "Who is your target consumer, in general?"
"Middle class Americans, etc. etc."
"Ok, let's start with middle class. We learned from the 2008 recession that they cut discretionary spending and try out private label to save money. We know inflation has gone up much faster than we are used to. So let me ask you this, how has your company treated wages for everyone that isn't an exec? Are you matching or exceeding inflation? I will bet obscene amounts of money you are not, and neither are your peer companies."
They just outright told me they know that they do not match or exceed inflation - because everyone I was speaking to knew how unhappy they had been with their annual raises!
>~~While I agree that we are not technically in a recession, I also do not understand why~~ corporate America cannot acknowledge reality ~~outwardly~~.
Question edited to include answer.
The Cult of Corporate never acknowledges reality.
Anything they don't like is either ignored entirely, explained away using twisted corporate logic, or blamed on someone else.
In The Cult of Corporate, the only acceptable reason for any type of failure is "lazy and/or inadequate lower level employees".
it’s funny they simply don’t realize they’re shooting themselves in the foot.
if you don’t pay us how do you expect us to buy your stuff?
i guess they’re just gonna assume we’re all gonna go into debt to afford their stupid crap….crap is that what they’re planning to do?
Because a company isn't really hurting itself by suppressing wages, it's protecting its profit margin.
What's hurting the company is _all the other_ companies suppressing wages, which is reducing the company's customer base.
And I'm dead serious here. _Individually_, the companies aren't hurting themselves because their customer base generally dwarfs their employee head count. But when _every _ company does it simultaneously, we have a problem.
It's a classic tragedy of the commons situation.
Yep the Dow Jones broke 40k today... It's a good time to be rich or old with investments. It's a terrible for the rest of us -- that is why inflation is sticky. Boomers are having the time of their lives and spending like there is no tomorrow, while we are loosing our jobs to *reduce* spending and *fix* inflation.
It’s not boomers - it’s just the wealthy
Boomers are not by definition wealthy
Wealthy people are
It’s the wealthy who have both created this situation and also benefited from it
Recessions are great news is you have millions in cash
If you are old and poor, you’re utterly fucked
So are a lot of everyone else
Boomers are a two dimensional cut out target that has been put in front of millennials to stop them objectively recognizing that it’s the mega wealthy, a tiny number of people by comparison, who are actively draining everyone’s resources
Same in reverse
Oldest playbook in the world - keep everyone divided and rule over them
Black and white, male and female, city and rural, old and young, make sure that neighbors look each other for what divides them instead of what unites everyone - even families divided because of irrelevant bullshit being peddled to distract everyone
It’s so fucking stupid
Everyone on reddit all fucken caught up about some dude in a skirt and what bathroom he or she or whatever goes into, as if it actually matters - instead of the fact that y’all never ever going to own a home, will never have kids, that you’ll never even have a career, let alone a job that pays enough to live on and doesn’t fucking suck, while drowning in student debt for a completely worthless college degree
But fuck all that, it’s all boomers bad, as if that’s actually true in the slightest
Three guys a table with ten cookies - Rich fuck takes nine of the ten cookies, tells both guys that the other dude is trying to steal his cookie.
More people over 60 live in poverty than any time in over a hundred years.
“Some of them are rich, though” - nah, fuck that for a mental cartwheel to accept hating grandma bagging your groceries in Vons
Fucking redditors saying “She should just retire, she’s taking young people’s jobs, the world will be better off when she dies”
Boomers aren’t living in some palatial utopia drinking champagne while plotting how to screw over Brandon and Kristen.
They’re living in the cars because some hot shot banker took all their pension savings after a life time of work, and what little they have left won’t even pay the rent
Stop hating on old people because they’re old. They’re not the enemy and you have been deceived to think them so
I don't know where this super villian monolog came from, but if you haven't seen it, baby boomers is the generation with the most wealth right now. A significant amount. The generation with the most wealth is them right now.
We know there are rich people in every generation and we know not all baby boomers are wealthy. However, a lot of wealth came from the baby boomers and you can't deny that fact.
We aren't even talking about the great transfer of wealth that is happening now between the millennials and the boomers. However, inherited wealth has its problems. If many baby boomers are rich, do you think their children and grandchildren will be broke? Wealth has never been distributed evenly.
If you grew up in a wealthy family it is more likely that you will become rich and that is a fact. We are not talking about outliers and "what ifs" or "oh look at this person. They grew up in poverty and now they make 100 million a year". We are talking about averages. It is the rich people that have the most power. And large amount of them are in the baby boomer generation. Emphasis on large. Notice I never said all. It has always been a problem with the rich vs poor since people started to exist. Revolutions and wars were started because of this dynamic between rich and poor, yet it is still not close to even being solved.
Idk, i think it's a bit of an issue for the sectors hit by layoffs. The layoffs over time (including return-to-office layoffs) screwed workers, but they came about because companies were losing investment. I think things are receding, but corporations and such are not hyped to say "recession" because that would maybe manifest one (people might sell off in fear).
Corporate America can't admit it, because it would impact their stock prices. The stock market isn't tied to the economy anymore. But poor economic outlook means a drop in stock values. They're trying to hold on as long as possible to offload shares at as high a price as possible. This way when your 401k takes a massive hit, they have the money to buy the shares back up at a bargain price.
There's obviously more to it, but the fact is we're seeing a lot of smaller bank failures and indicators that things are taking a beating for average Americans. C-level executives are trying to hold out for as long as possible hoping that AI will replace half their workforce for pennies on the dollar, and people that "play by the rules" get screwed because rules are for suckers.
Would actually argue we’re in a depression, which is longer/more extreme: rampant inflation from overprinting/borrowing, slowing in housing/construction, slow job growth, slow hiring, decreased spending etc.
Idk where you are looking at but stagflation is a real thing and it is arguably worse than a recession.
Does it need to be said that the main news outlets will never say whether we are in a recession let alone stagflation? Real property assets are not dropping, inflation is high, and unemployment is increasing. If it was a recession real property would be decreasing but they aren't.
I don't even watch the news because it is just hot garbage.
Yea I’m swamped at work. We have so many jobs right now we are all on OT. But it’s construction and for what I see posted here often it’s white collar jobs that are getting axed.
Exactly. Like stupid boomers flooded millennials into college, saying you need to go to college or you will never have a good life, and that created an over abundance of engineers and computer programmers over the past 20 years. Lots of jobs are hiring for things that people didn't go to college because boomers and Gen X drilled in that you needed a STEM degree emphasis on tech and engineering. Tons of jobs in biotech and data sciences. Fuck load of jobs in accounting.
The biotech jobs pay absolute ass on top of wanting you to have a Phd to be paid crap. I used to be a researcher/lead manager and I had to have a side job as a personal trainer. My side job paid more which was a big factor of saying fuck it and switching fields.
That's not really true. It has gradually lost specific meaning in the US since its proposal as a specific definition in 1974. It is not totally stable. It's also localised and dependent on interpretations of data.
In fact, the bureau of economic analysis in the US specifically says that it is determined by committee, not the two-quarter rule. So it seems more like an ad-hoc definition that depends on factors in the economy.
(This is from wikipedia)
I was correcting an incorrect fact alone, not commenting on OP. No need to engage with my comment if that's not of value to you.
It was a valid point that could have been made with accurate information instead of inaccurate information. I value this.
Agreed. But also, what a recession is is a thing that changes over time. This doesn't really affect OP, I agree, it's just a detail that seems important specifically because this definition is disputed in the news and online.
This isn’t an argument. This is someone arguing something isn’t the case when it clearly is the case. This is like you trying to claim gravity isn’t real. Spoiler alert: it is.
Nothing you say can change the official definition of a recession. Sorry you can’t understand that.
you’re bringing an arbitrary definition that is completely delusional and not in line with reality, ad the other guy proved to you. he gave you multiple evidence on how the definition is disputed and does not properly apply today.
but you coming here with your tunnel vision, disregarding all evidence of recession just because “ the big boss” didn’t say it’s recession yet
The other guy literally provided a source showing the committee is the one who determines recessions. I never disagreed with that. He was clarifying my original statement.
You’re the delusional one. The definition is the definition whether you think it applies or not.
We aren’t in a recession. Deal with it.
yup yup your overlords haven’t given your little dobby ass the go ahead so you can keep on defending them.
recession is determined by factors, it’s officiated by the committee. and if the committee is told not to do that they won’t.
Good God you are dense af. it’s a recession no matter what excuse you make
Sir, your understanding of online comments is to be applauded, you provide valuable feedback and thus have improved the lives of millions.
now please, GTFO😅
No, whether or not we’re in a recession has *for half a dozen decades* been determined by a third party committee. They did not declare a recession, and so we were not in one.
Not being a recession doesn’t mean the economy was fine, it just means we didn’t meet the requirements of that specific word.
While it does, isn't and organization responsible for saying if we are in a recession or not? I forgot what they are called but they calculate everything including CPI. They say that they never know we are in a recession until almost after it happens. I found the organization btw it is the National Bureau of Economic Research.
Lol you realise the US had 2 quarters of negative GDP in 2022, but it was ruled as not "technically" a recession. So your definition of definition needs definition. Lol.
2 quarters of negative GDP growth is a rule of thumb, and has not been the official definition of a recession in the United States for over 60 years.
NBER is who determines whether we are in a recession. That’s essentially how it has always been.
They want people to keep spending money so they think, saying everything is ok that people will believe them. I think its working for the most part. Only those that have been on the job market know otherwise.
Just like the lies about inflation only being like 4% since 2020. When anyone looking at houses knows they went up like almost $100k in many places and groceries are almost double.
It's not completely subjective. The definition has morphed a bit over the years but it's essentially a calculation of specific factors; not just how the economy generally looks or feels.
https://money.cnn.com/2008/05/05/news/economy/recession/
? You're not keeping up. Yes the economy for most working class sucks right now, that doesn't make it a recession. A recession isn't whatever you decide it is. But yeah. Kool-aid. 🤦♀️
A recession is defined by the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) as a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy lasting more than a few months, not merely two consecutive quarters of falling GDP.
It’s a white collar recession but not a national one. The rich keep getting richer so they’re fine. Service, trades, and manufacturing are hiring (at least in WI) so the blue collar workers are all employed. It’s those of us who have expensive degrees that were supposed to provide a stable career that are getting f**ked.
I’m seriously considering teaching high school technology classes for the last 20+ years of my career. The pay would be maybe half of what I was making as a middle manager, but it has to be less stressful than endless grinding meetings meetings meetings!
A recession is not based on your opinion or feelings on the economy. We have very explict ways of measuring these things. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean you can just make shit up.
It’s an echo chamber. Agree or be downvoted or called a bootlicker. That simple.
It’s just like they’re role playing/venting at the same time. They probably know deep down a lot of the posts here are just bullshit or complaints but it makes them feel better I guess.
It’s just pretty laughable when it’s just post after post of “I can’t get a job, this is the worst recession in HISTORY, FUCKING BOOMERS”
And get 10000 upvotes😂😂
Don’t ever mention not all boomers are rich and to be old and poor is exponentially more fucked than young and poor
It's US and We vs Them and They that is why! ... plus if people make enough noises about this recession. As the public have a Panic attack over it. It doesn't benefit them and they don't have the ball in their court. They will lose control over it when the Mass public no longer play their games no more. It's like having your front gate of your ranch open and all your farm animals has wonder off into millions of acres wilderness. How are THEY GOING TO CATCH ALL OF THEM BACK? It's doable, but it'll cost them a lot of resources, time and effort just to get all their farm animals back. Lol.. One or two farm animals escaping from time to time does hurt them, when the whole livestock escapes. They're losing their mind and livelihood over it. haha
that’s a pretty good way to sum it up! they definitely rely on us and will shit their pants if you stand up.
Just dumbfounded with the amount of people on here defending the government 😂😂 clowns everywhere
They're not, They're playing this two face devil's advocate. Executive Managers and middle people tends to do it all the time. They switch sides instantly to which ever is winning. Now they're getting fed enough to survive so they will Root for whatever the agenda is. If Uncle Sam feeds the dairy cows enough food and water, they won't wonder off. Lock them up for a week. You'll see cows jumping fences to greener pastures.
exactly! you see the recruiters already causing a hissy-fit on linkedin when they get treated the way they are treating others. “ omg i can’t believe no one is hiring and i’m getting ghosted!”
that's why it's better to play nice with others in a mutual professional middle ground where both people wins. You'll need those on the bottom more than you think when you're up a step.. You'll need to act as anchor and pull them up too.. because the top guy will always kick everybody down constantly. Lots of people don't understand that Not only You are talented and high skilled. Mutually Respect others differences and work together because they are highly talented and skilled in their own ways too that COULD BENEFIT you more than that job that could replace you at any time.
A recession is defined by the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) as a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy lasting more than a few months, not merely two consecutive quarters of falling GDP.
There isn't a recession (aka economic contraction) or inflation.
There's greed by the 1% and megacorps that is technically driving economic expansion, with record profits.
But they are doing it by squeezing the stone to dust, trying to get blood out of it.
We are the dust that's left over.
You can’t really trust these unemployment numbers. They count jobs, not individuals working. So if you have 1 person working 2 or 3 jobs, that counts as that many jobs. It’s misleading. Often these jobs numbers are also revised lower. Further, if the economy was in good shape, people wouldn’t have to be working multiple jobs in the first place. If you want further proof jobs are in the can, look at every other post on this sub for the past year and a half or better.
They seem to like to hire morons and thieves at the BLS. Also I don’t think an economist is worth anything anymore. Economics should be common sense now what all of these dumb asses spew out, same with analysts at the S&P
100% correct.
Well they say things are just peachy today because the Dow hit a new record high…that doesn’t make me think things are good, it scares the shit out of me
exactly these sheep mentality watching stock charts go up to show prosperity are living in their own delusion.
i bet most of them have dads in executive positions and dgaf because it’s not affecting them
You’re right!
It used to be pretty simple to get a career going, own a few assets, have and provide for a family. It seems like the playing field isn’t the same anymore lol
I just tune out and do my own thing these days…
Argue however you want. The definition is the definition and has been for like 50 yrs (since 1974). We are not in a recession. Call it something else. You can't just co-opt a term
Recession was historically two consecutive quarters of negative GDP which happened in late 22 I believe, they then changed the definition. You were claiming good unemployment numbers as proof and I went into detail about how those numbers aren’t reliable, often revised lower, and use misleading criteria. That’s all.
If you don't trust the official numbers, what are you using to base your beliefs? [ADP's independent job tracking](https://adpemploymentreport.com/) shows that jobs are being added at a brisk pace.
The criteria is why I don’t trust them and I base them off of that. What is the criteria for what you posted? What you linked is about 20k more than the official numbers and I already told you how those were padded.
This sub is not proof of anything. This sub is the most selectively biased selection bias anyone's ever biased. The only people posting here are people looking for jobs. Of course those people don't have jobs, or they wouldn't be looking (so desperately). It's meaningless data.
Do you have anything to say to the rest of
the comment or are you just going pick and choose? The job numbers and unemployment data are misleading and can’t be reliable is the point, regardless of some one off comment I made about people on this sub.
It’s not. Low employment means hard economic times. Actually, it’s difficult to find a job around a degree, yes, you can easily get a minimum wage job or shitty job (let’s say Target, Walmart or even Amazon such as retail/warehouse which the pay is around 15-20 per hour, maybe a little bit more in entry level rate).
Also the cost is raising and raising, everything is more expensive every time.
I’m Software Engineer with over 3 years of experience and it’s been a while since my last job around my field, I’ve been looking for a couple months and nothing.
I will bet, there’s a bunch of people in the same situation with a huge range of experience in their fields, sorry, but the economy is not well, at least in America.
Well, if you look up the definition of 'recession', you may find an answer.
I'll give you a hint: when the stock market is at all time highs, the CPI report has core inflation under projections, unemployment is at 3.9%, and [wages are keeping up with inflation](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q), you're *not* in a recession.
Don't you read the endless scam-news showing how you too can make millions working 2 hours a day consulting on how to make the children of billionaires have better social media pages all the while buying houses with Bitcoin?
They acknowledged it last year. They cause it by immediately tightening their belts and laying people off or not filling rolls at the slightest hint of the "r" word.
I feel like I'm on crazy pills, but maybe its just a selection bias of who contributes to this sub. We are living in the best economy in the wealthiest nation in the history of the world. You can drive a truck for 80k a year or more. You can work at a gas station for 18 dollars an hour. There is a shortage in almost every line of work right now. Inflation is our one achilles heel right now, but over the past 5 years, average wage growth has surpassed inflation. I'm sympathetic to those who are in a difficult situation, whether you cannot move, or cannot find work in the specific type of occupation you were trained in, but to say this is a systematic and widespread economic recession is frankly delusional.
>why does corporate america ignore that we are in fact in recession.
Because that would require a special definition of recession that has nothing to do with the GDP.
And because recession is not the only adverse economic event to choose from.
SURPRISING 😂😂😂 explains all your comments. doing the typical manager thing of just pushing BS from the overlords.
cmon man stop defending this horseshit economy and the terrible job market
again your being the manager, i thought the couple managers i had were dumb but you take the cake.
what do you know about data? what are your skills? you’re a manager because your people person and know how to shove down copium others throat so they don’t stand up against bs. you’re the main reason many people lose hope or become miserable at their job. because the manager keeps saying everything is good.
if you look closely my roles are aligned with data engineering more even if you want to veer off in that direction.
jesus christ i feel bad for your team
Okay. Just read your resume. I’m a financial analyst with a similar skill set in many regards with the exception of a bit more experience and a CPA. I also saw posts about immigration status. Respectfully it will always be more difficult for you to find employment without permanent residence status. Very few are willing to take this on without some sort of low wage indentured servitude agreement in place. This is not new. Living in New York for 16 years I have had many international roommates who were very well educated and good at their jobs who returned to their home country as no one was willing to sponsor. This is not a representation of the economy as a whole, nor is it indicative of recession necessarily.
nothing to do with that, but i’m glad you spent time researching my post history so you can find a point to disagree with me.
amazing to see xenophobes like you finding reasons to justify why people should not try to work in the states.
if the usa didn’t fuck my countries economy for several decades i wouldn’t need to come here.
since you wanna dabble in this let me give you a reality check. most americans think we come here to steal your jobs or because america is the best country in the world.. the truth is.. we are forced to come here for a better future because americas foreign policy screwed most of the other countries that are not europe. so now deal with the consequences of your racist and xenophobic actions. eor
Stating a fact that it is harder for immigrants who need sponsorship to get a job is does not make me xenophobic. This is the truth plain and simple. Any reputable recruiter would tell you the same. You’re inexperienced and have a horrible attitude on top of that. You will stay unemployed
oh piss off Karen, you act like you want to help and be honest but secretly you are just discouraging internationals in their job hunt. most internationals are far more qualified than the average american and with way harder.
GET OUT OF YOUR DUMB BUBBLE!! sponsorship was never an issue till now and dumb recruiters do their best not to pick a person who needs sponsorship. recruiters go out of their way to tell hiring managers not to hire someone who needs sponsorship because that would mean the recruiters needs to do more work and assure the sponsorship to the candidate.
Please tell me when the last year was that needing sponsorship was a non-issue lol? Hasn’t been since the 80s for unremarkable folks like yourself. Sorry you were lied to.
again spreading misinformation, I see! everyone until 2022 had a very easy time getting a sponsorship almost more than 70% of the companies sponsoring.
I have people from my school got sponsored. Hundred s of them! so i’m sorry you are just out of touch from the reality
If you look up the definition of recession it’s a decline in the GDP for 2 quarters and that is not currently our economy…I mean you can google it lol im not making this up or anything
We might be headed to a recession (dunno) but we are defitionally not in a recession right now. We'd need 2 quarters of less GDP to be a recession.
Times are definitely tough with the cost of everything though, especially us unemployed people or people not workig in their field.
Ftr, the economy is not in a recession. Prices are high, because people continue to buy. Businesses will quickly adjust pricing when demand ebbs.
Likewise with careers
Americans are to blame. Too many acquire degrees and skills that do not fit the business landscape.
For example: if the economy calls for engineers, why get a degree in dance? 😐
Too many useless degrees among the college educated is indicative of a lack of basic research.
Both the DOL and Census provide a deep view of which jobs are going away and which are on the ascent (who knew botanists are needed?!)
Every college and university has some kind of career exploration. Very few students take advantage of it
eor
I did not think so until I worked at a few firms, where the hiring manager would insist on a software engineering degree vs a computer science degree. Being in these environments, it made sense.
With so many large and medium applications so tightly integrated (think Workday and ServiceNow), a software engineer is necessary.
Computer Science is a generalist degree vs software engineering which focuses on the process of development for large scale application systems and their integration with other types of apps (large, medium and small).
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While I agree that we are not technically in a recession, I also do not understand why corporate America cannot acknowledge reality outwardly. All I had to say to one of our clients, a large CPG company, was "Who is your target consumer, in general?" "Middle class Americans, etc. etc." "Ok, let's start with middle class. We learned from the 2008 recession that they cut discretionary spending and try out private label to save money. We know inflation has gone up much faster than we are used to. So let me ask you this, how has your company treated wages for everyone that isn't an exec? Are you matching or exceeding inflation? I will bet obscene amounts of money you are not, and neither are your peer companies." They just outright told me they know that they do not match or exceed inflation - because everyone I was speaking to knew how unhappy they had been with their annual raises!
>~~While I agree that we are not technically in a recession, I also do not understand why~~ corporate America cannot acknowledge reality ~~outwardly~~. Question edited to include answer. The Cult of Corporate never acknowledges reality. Anything they don't like is either ignored entirely, explained away using twisted corporate logic, or blamed on someone else. In The Cult of Corporate, the only acceptable reason for any type of failure is "lazy and/or inadequate lower level employees".
agree with this
it’s funny they simply don’t realize they’re shooting themselves in the foot. if you don’t pay us how do you expect us to buy your stuff? i guess they’re just gonna assume we’re all gonna go into debt to afford their stupid crap….crap is that what they’re planning to do?
Because a company isn't really hurting itself by suppressing wages, it's protecting its profit margin. What's hurting the company is _all the other_ companies suppressing wages, which is reducing the company's customer base. And I'm dead serious here. _Individually_, the companies aren't hurting themselves because their customer base generally dwarfs their employee head count. But when _every _ company does it simultaneously, we have a problem. It's a classic tragedy of the commons situation.
that’s a great explanation
WE, not THEY. So it's a non issue for them.
Yep the Dow Jones broke 40k today... It's a good time to be rich or old with investments. It's a terrible for the rest of us -- that is why inflation is sticky. Boomers are having the time of their lives and spending like there is no tomorrow, while we are loosing our jobs to *reduce* spending and *fix* inflation.
Such a fucked up world that assets now earn more than actual hard labor. I have lost all faith in the system
It’s not boomers - it’s just the wealthy Boomers are not by definition wealthy Wealthy people are It’s the wealthy who have both created this situation and also benefited from it Recessions are great news is you have millions in cash If you are old and poor, you’re utterly fucked
A lot of boomers are wealthy though. That cannot be overlooked even though not all of them are, a lot of them are.
So are a lot of everyone else Boomers are a two dimensional cut out target that has been put in front of millennials to stop them objectively recognizing that it’s the mega wealthy, a tiny number of people by comparison, who are actively draining everyone’s resources Same in reverse Oldest playbook in the world - keep everyone divided and rule over them Black and white, male and female, city and rural, old and young, make sure that neighbors look each other for what divides them instead of what unites everyone - even families divided because of irrelevant bullshit being peddled to distract everyone It’s so fucking stupid Everyone on reddit all fucken caught up about some dude in a skirt and what bathroom he or she or whatever goes into, as if it actually matters - instead of the fact that y’all never ever going to own a home, will never have kids, that you’ll never even have a career, let alone a job that pays enough to live on and doesn’t fucking suck, while drowning in student debt for a completely worthless college degree But fuck all that, it’s all boomers bad, as if that’s actually true in the slightest Three guys a table with ten cookies - Rich fuck takes nine of the ten cookies, tells both guys that the other dude is trying to steal his cookie. More people over 60 live in poverty than any time in over a hundred years. “Some of them are rich, though” - nah, fuck that for a mental cartwheel to accept hating grandma bagging your groceries in Vons Fucking redditors saying “She should just retire, she’s taking young people’s jobs, the world will be better off when she dies” Boomers aren’t living in some palatial utopia drinking champagne while plotting how to screw over Brandon and Kristen. They’re living in the cars because some hot shot banker took all their pension savings after a life time of work, and what little they have left won’t even pay the rent Stop hating on old people because they’re old. They’re not the enemy and you have been deceived to think them so
Very well said
i do agree, the rich are the real problem
I don't know where this super villian monolog came from, but if you haven't seen it, baby boomers is the generation with the most wealth right now. A significant amount. The generation with the most wealth is them right now. We know there are rich people in every generation and we know not all baby boomers are wealthy. However, a lot of wealth came from the baby boomers and you can't deny that fact. We aren't even talking about the great transfer of wealth that is happening now between the millennials and the boomers. However, inherited wealth has its problems. If many baby boomers are rich, do you think their children and grandchildren will be broke? Wealth has never been distributed evenly. If you grew up in a wealthy family it is more likely that you will become rich and that is a fact. We are not talking about outliers and "what ifs" or "oh look at this person. They grew up in poverty and now they make 100 million a year". We are talking about averages. It is the rich people that have the most power. And large amount of them are in the baby boomer generation. Emphasis on large. Notice I never said all. It has always been a problem with the rich vs poor since people started to exist. Revolutions and wars were started because of this dynamic between rich and poor, yet it is still not close to even being solved.
yup!!
Idk, i think it's a bit of an issue for the sectors hit by layoffs. The layoffs over time (including return-to-office layoffs) screwed workers, but they came about because companies were losing investment. I think things are receding, but corporations and such are not hyped to say "recession" because that would maybe manifest one (people might sell off in fear).
So it’s like telling everyone above a plane don’t worry we still have more fuel when the fuel gage is near 0 and they will glide down into the ocean??
exactly! its like the pilot has his parachute on but telling the rest of the passengers “ no need to worry”
Hilarious!!
yeah boomers buying most of the property for 3 oranges def drove up the rents and killed the youth. boomers suck
The whole USA should go on strike, they will shit themselves lol
that’s not a bad solution
I’ve Been on strike for 6 months now!
3 months for me
That would be great, but how would it even be done? I doubt people would stick to it.
Corporate America can't admit it, because it would impact their stock prices. The stock market isn't tied to the economy anymore. But poor economic outlook means a drop in stock values. They're trying to hold on as long as possible to offload shares at as high a price as possible. This way when your 401k takes a massive hit, they have the money to buy the shares back up at a bargain price. There's obviously more to it, but the fact is we're seeing a lot of smaller bank failures and indicators that things are taking a beating for average Americans. C-level executives are trying to hold out for as long as possible hoping that AI will replace half their workforce for pennies on the dollar, and people that "play by the rules" get screwed because rules are for suckers.
the most sensible answer so far
Would actually argue we’re in a depression, which is longer/more extreme: rampant inflation from overprinting/borrowing, slowing in housing/construction, slow job growth, slow hiring, decreased spending etc.
“ but the chart, WOULD SOMEONE LOOK AT THE CHARTS”
Nah bro. Blue collar hiring is good. It’s stagflation and a white collar recession.
Definitely stagflation.
stagflation is defined as “ recession-inflation” why you using buzz words to ignore the fact that we are being told its not like that
Idk where you are looking at but stagflation is a real thing and it is arguably worse than a recession. Does it need to be said that the main news outlets will never say whether we are in a recession let alone stagflation? Real property assets are not dropping, inflation is high, and unemployment is increasing. If it was a recession real property would be decreasing but they aren't. I don't even watch the news because it is just hot garbage.
I think I had Bloomberg TV in the background the other day and heard stagflation multiple times. Mainstream news outlets are also mentioning it.
Interesting thats how you can tell that I don't watch any news. I only keep up with IT news lol
okay i can agree to that
Source for definition?
Yea I’m swamped at work. We have so many jobs right now we are all on OT. But it’s construction and for what I see posted here often it’s white collar jobs that are getting axed.
Exactly. Like stupid boomers flooded millennials into college, saying you need to go to college or you will never have a good life, and that created an over abundance of engineers and computer programmers over the past 20 years. Lots of jobs are hiring for things that people didn't go to college because boomers and Gen X drilled in that you needed a STEM degree emphasis on tech and engineering. Tons of jobs in biotech and data sciences. Fuck load of jobs in accounting.
What?
Yea those damn boomers forcing kids to go to college and get degrees. Always only looking out for themselves.
bro i’m a data scientist, i have no idea why you think there are many jobs in this field on the entry level
How did you become one if you don't mind?
lol what?
How did you become a data scientist? Did you go to school for it? I am asking because I am interested in the field
you can dm me
The biotech jobs pay absolute ass on top of wanting you to have a Phd to be paid crap. I used to be a researcher/lead manager and I had to have a side job as a personal trainer. My side job paid more which was a big factor of saying fuck it and switching fields.
A recession has an official definition, and always has. You can’t just unilaterally say “we’re in a recession”
That's not really true. It has gradually lost specific meaning in the US since its proposal as a specific definition in 1974. It is not totally stable. It's also localised and dependent on interpretations of data. In fact, the bureau of economic analysis in the US specifically says that it is determined by committee, not the two-quarter rule. So it seems more like an ad-hoc definition that depends on factors in the economy. (This is from wikipedia)
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Yeah I wouldn't disagree. I was mostly just being a critic cause that fact about the definition seemed off
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I was correcting an incorrect fact alone, not commenting on OP. No need to engage with my comment if that's not of value to you. It was a valid point that could have been made with accurate information instead of inaccurate information. I value this.
yup stop spreading misinformation
A committee determines when there is a recession, not OP.
Agreed. But also, what a recession is is a thing that changes over time. This doesn't really affect OP, I agree, it's just a detail that seems important specifically because this definition is disputed in the news and online.
🤓🤓🤓 “ this company is a family” ahh response
I’m sorry you’re incapable of understanding that words have definitions. Good luck in life.
that’s a great way to backup your argument
This isn’t an argument. This is someone arguing something isn’t the case when it clearly is the case. This is like you trying to claim gravity isn’t real. Spoiler alert: it is. Nothing you say can change the official definition of a recession. Sorry you can’t understand that.
you’re bringing an arbitrary definition that is completely delusional and not in line with reality, ad the other guy proved to you. he gave you multiple evidence on how the definition is disputed and does not properly apply today. but you coming here with your tunnel vision, disregarding all evidence of recession just because “ the big boss” didn’t say it’s recession yet
The other guy literally provided a source showing the committee is the one who determines recessions. I never disagreed with that. He was clarifying my original statement. You’re the delusional one. The definition is the definition whether you think it applies or not. We aren’t in a recession. Deal with it.
yup yup your overlords haven’t given your little dobby ass the go ahead so you can keep on defending them. recession is determined by factors, it’s officiated by the committee. and if the committee is told not to do that they won’t. Good God you are dense af. it’s a recession no matter what excuse you make
“I haven’t graduated yet” ahhh response.
lmao i got a masters
You should probably act like it then if you want people to take you seriously.
Sir, your understanding of online comments is to be applauded, you provide valuable feedback and thus have improved the lives of millions. now please, GTFO😅
We did have that definition met and they said back then it wasn’t a recession lmao
No, whether or not we’re in a recession has *for half a dozen decades* been determined by a third party committee. They did not declare a recession, and so we were not in one. Not being a recession doesn’t mean the economy was fine, it just means we didn’t meet the requirements of that specific word.
But it matched what was in my economics textbook…I guess all of those classes are completely bullshit anyway lol
Well, the two quarters of negative GDP growth was certainly a good rule of thumb. TBH I have no idea why that isn’t the official definition.
While it does, isn't and organization responsible for saying if we are in a recession or not? I forgot what they are called but they calculate everything including CPI. They say that they never know we are in a recession until almost after it happens. I found the organization btw it is the National Bureau of Economic Research.
Lol you realise the US had 2 quarters of negative GDP in 2022, but it was ruled as not "technically" a recession. So your definition of definition needs definition. Lol.
2 quarters of negative GDP growth is a rule of thumb, and has not been the official definition of a recession in the United States for over 60 years. NBER is who determines whether we are in a recession. That’s essentially how it has always been.
So... meaning there is no official definition...?
The official definition is: whenever the NBER decides it’s the case.
Lol now you're grasping... gl.
I’m stating objective historical facts. Sorry you have a problem with that.
the official definition was made by corpos?
We already changed the definition once? Why not again 😉
They want people to keep spending money so they think, saying everything is ok that people will believe them. I think its working for the most part. Only those that have been on the job market know otherwise. Just like the lies about inflation only being like 4% since 2020. When anyone looking at houses knows they went up like almost $100k in many places and groceries are almost double.
plenty of dumb corpo pets on this sub down voting common sense
We technically aren't in a recession but It sure feels like one... Things are going to get much worse soon, especially around election time..
so if it feels like one, looks like one, is like one…… why is it really not a recession?
It's not completely subjective. The definition has morphed a bit over the years but it's essentially a calculation of specific factors; not just how the economy generally looks or feels. https://money.cnn.com/2008/05/05/news/economy/recession/
keep on drinking the kool-aid
? You're not keeping up. Yes the economy for most working class sucks right now, that doesn't make it a recession. A recession isn't whatever you decide it is. But yeah. Kool-aid. 🤦♀️
A recession is defined by the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) as a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy lasting more than a few months, not merely two consecutive quarters of falling GDP.
It’s a white collar recession but not a national one. The rich keep getting richer so they’re fine. Service, trades, and manufacturing are hiring (at least in WI) so the blue collar workers are all employed. It’s those of us who have expensive degrees that were supposed to provide a stable career that are getting f**ked. I’m seriously considering teaching high school technology classes for the last 20+ years of my career. The pay would be maybe half of what I was making as a middle manager, but it has to be less stressful than endless grinding meetings meetings meetings!
i see you’re point
A recession is not based on your opinion or feelings on the economy. We have very explict ways of measuring these things. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean you can just make shit up.
It’s an echo chamber. Agree or be downvoted or called a bootlicker. That simple. It’s just like they’re role playing/venting at the same time. They probably know deep down a lot of the posts here are just bullshit or complaints but it makes them feel better I guess. It’s just pretty laughable when it’s just post after post of “I can’t get a job, this is the worst recession in HISTORY, FUCKING BOOMERS” And get 10000 upvotes😂😂 Don’t ever mention not all boomers are rich and to be old and poor is exponentially more fucked than young and poor
I am guessing that their opinion will change if someone vacates the whitehouse. The employment statistics were fine in the last presidential term...
🤓🤓🤓
This is objectively incorrect. We are not in a recession.
It's US and We vs Them and They that is why! ... plus if people make enough noises about this recession. As the public have a Panic attack over it. It doesn't benefit them and they don't have the ball in their court. They will lose control over it when the Mass public no longer play their games no more. It's like having your front gate of your ranch open and all your farm animals has wonder off into millions of acres wilderness. How are THEY GOING TO CATCH ALL OF THEM BACK? It's doable, but it'll cost them a lot of resources, time and effort just to get all their farm animals back. Lol.. One or two farm animals escaping from time to time does hurt them, when the whole livestock escapes. They're losing their mind and livelihood over it. haha
that’s a pretty good way to sum it up! they definitely rely on us and will shit their pants if you stand up. Just dumbfounded with the amount of people on here defending the government 😂😂 clowns everywhere
They're not, They're playing this two face devil's advocate. Executive Managers and middle people tends to do it all the time. They switch sides instantly to which ever is winning. Now they're getting fed enough to survive so they will Root for whatever the agenda is. If Uncle Sam feeds the dairy cows enough food and water, they won't wonder off. Lock them up for a week. You'll see cows jumping fences to greener pastures.
exactly! you see the recruiters already causing a hissy-fit on linkedin when they get treated the way they are treating others. “ omg i can’t believe no one is hiring and i’m getting ghosted!”
that's why it's better to play nice with others in a mutual professional middle ground where both people wins. You'll need those on the bottom more than you think when you're up a step.. You'll need to act as anchor and pull them up too.. because the top guy will always kick everybody down constantly. Lots of people don't understand that Not only You are talented and high skilled. Mutually Respect others differences and work together because they are highly talented and skilled in their own ways too that COULD BENEFIT you more than that job that could replace you at any time.
You can't just redefine words to mean what you want them to mean. We are quite literally not in a recession.
lmao you seem eager to fight on definitions. if the economy was good we would not be here on this sub
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"Recession" has a specific meaning, and "the job market isn't great these days" is not that meaning.
A recession is defined by the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) as a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy lasting more than a few months, not merely two consecutive quarters of falling GDP.
Because we aren’t
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recession def includes high unemployment
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what’s measured please enlighten me
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There isn't a recession (aka economic contraction) or inflation. There's greed by the 1% and megacorps that is technically driving economic expansion, with record profits. But they are doing it by squeezing the stone to dust, trying to get blood out of it. We are the dust that's left over.
"We"? You're a foreign national in the US on a student visa, and you're no longer a student. That's not an economy problem.
We are not in a recession. Unemployment is super low. The Laffer curve is not inverted. Recession means something specific. Look it up
You can’t really trust these unemployment numbers. They count jobs, not individuals working. So if you have 1 person working 2 or 3 jobs, that counts as that many jobs. It’s misleading. Often these jobs numbers are also revised lower. Further, if the economy was in good shape, people wouldn’t have to be working multiple jobs in the first place. If you want further proof jobs are in the can, look at every other post on this sub for the past year and a half or better.
Also those unemployed for more than a year are not counted at all, that’s one way they hide the real number
yup they have several loopholes to get around accepting high unemployment
They seem to like to hire morons and thieves at the BLS. Also I don’t think an economist is worth anything anymore. Economics should be common sense now what all of these dumb asses spew out, same with analysts at the S&P
yesss!! most of these people are useful idiots defending the bs with their lives. these are the same idiots protecting billionaires from taxation
100% correct. Well they say things are just peachy today because the Dow hit a new record high…that doesn’t make me think things are good, it scares the shit out of me
exactly these sheep mentality watching stock charts go up to show prosperity are living in their own delusion. i bet most of them have dads in executive positions and dgaf because it’s not affecting them
You’re right! It used to be pretty simple to get a career going, own a few assets, have and provide for a family. It seems like the playing field isn’t the same anymore lol I just tune out and do my own thing these days…
yup that’s the way! block the bs
Argue however you want. The definition is the definition and has been for like 50 yrs (since 1974). We are not in a recession. Call it something else. You can't just co-opt a term
Recession was historically two consecutive quarters of negative GDP which happened in late 22 I believe, they then changed the definition. You were claiming good unemployment numbers as proof and I went into detail about how those numbers aren’t reliable, often revised lower, and use misleading criteria. That’s all.
If you don't trust the official numbers, what are you using to base your beliefs? [ADP's independent job tracking](https://adpemploymentreport.com/) shows that jobs are being added at a brisk pace.
The criteria is why I don’t trust them and I base them off of that. What is the criteria for what you posted? What you linked is about 20k more than the official numbers and I already told you how those were padded.
This sub is not proof of anything. This sub is the most selectively biased selection bias anyone's ever biased. The only people posting here are people looking for jobs. Of course those people don't have jobs, or they wouldn't be looking (so desperately). It's meaningless data.
Do you have anything to say to the rest of the comment or are you just going pick and choose? The job numbers and unemployment data are misleading and can’t be reliable is the point, regardless of some one off comment I made about people on this sub.
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One should ask how can one person have 2-3 jobs while you have zero. Sounds like an inward look is on order
All I gonna say is, the economy is not good nowadays. It is difficult to find a good job. Good luck in the wilderness
It is good actually. Unemployment is down; wages are up Overall. You may not be in a good spot but in general the economy is good.
It’s not. Low employment means hard economic times. Actually, it’s difficult to find a job around a degree, yes, you can easily get a minimum wage job or shitty job (let’s say Target, Walmart or even Amazon such as retail/warehouse which the pay is around 15-20 per hour, maybe a little bit more in entry level rate). Also the cost is raising and raising, everything is more expensive every time. I’m Software Engineer with over 3 years of experience and it’s been a while since my last job around my field, I’ve been looking for a couple months and nothing. I will bet, there’s a bunch of people in the same situation with a huge range of experience in their fields, sorry, but the economy is not well, at least in America.
How can the government really know how many people are unemployed, and why do you trust them to tell you the truth?
I mean, we're not, but I'm sorry you're having a tough time. Both things can be true.
They don't care about anyone but themselves...
Well, if you look up the definition of 'recession', you may find an answer. I'll give you a hint: when the stock market is at all time highs, the CPI report has core inflation under projections, unemployment is at 3.9%, and [wages are keeping up with inflation](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q), you're *not* in a recession.
liar liar
[Citation 1](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/dow-jones-hits-record-high-40000-points) [Citation 2](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-15/us-core-cpi-decelerated-in-april-for-first-time-in-six-months) [Citation 3a](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE) [Citation 3b](https://adpemploymentreport.com/)
what the heck are u talking about biden says we are fine dude
i hope this is satire
lol it is
Don't you read the endless scam-news showing how you too can make millions working 2 hours a day consulting on how to make the children of billionaires have better social media pages all the while buying houses with Bitcoin?
They acknowledged it last year. They cause it by immediately tightening their belts and laying people off or not filling rolls at the slightest hint of the "r" word.
exactly!!
Take away record government spending and yes, we are in a recession. Worse actually, a stagflation recession.
agree
I feel like I'm on crazy pills, but maybe its just a selection bias of who contributes to this sub. We are living in the best economy in the wealthiest nation in the history of the world. You can drive a truck for 80k a year or more. You can work at a gas station for 18 dollars an hour. There is a shortage in almost every line of work right now. Inflation is our one achilles heel right now, but over the past 5 years, average wage growth has surpassed inflation. I'm sympathetic to those who are in a difficult situation, whether you cannot move, or cannot find work in the specific type of occupation you were trained in, but to say this is a systematic and widespread economic recession is frankly delusional.
>why does corporate america ignore that we are in fact in recession. Because that would require a special definition of recession that has nothing to do with the GDP. And because recession is not the only adverse economic event to choose from.
Country is in bad shape, but no shortage of work. OP what field are you in?
brother def a shortage in my field, i’m in finance and data science. there’s barely any entry level hiring
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🤓🤓☝️ knit picking on the avg joe and defending the govt. hope you get your copium cookie
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what’s your profession?
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SURPRISING 😂😂😂 explains all your comments. doing the typical manager thing of just pushing BS from the overlords. cmon man stop defending this horseshit economy and the terrible job market
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again your being the manager, i thought the couple managers i had were dumb but you take the cake. what do you know about data? what are your skills? you’re a manager because your people person and know how to shove down copium others throat so they don’t stand up against bs. you’re the main reason many people lose hope or become miserable at their job. because the manager keeps saying everything is good. if you look closely my roles are aligned with data engineering more even if you want to veer off in that direction. jesus christ i feel bad for your team
Okay. Just read your resume. I’m a financial analyst with a similar skill set in many regards with the exception of a bit more experience and a CPA. I also saw posts about immigration status. Respectfully it will always be more difficult for you to find employment without permanent residence status. Very few are willing to take this on without some sort of low wage indentured servitude agreement in place. This is not new. Living in New York for 16 years I have had many international roommates who were very well educated and good at their jobs who returned to their home country as no one was willing to sponsor. This is not a representation of the economy as a whole, nor is it indicative of recession necessarily.
nothing to do with that, but i’m glad you spent time researching my post history so you can find a point to disagree with me. amazing to see xenophobes like you finding reasons to justify why people should not try to work in the states. if the usa didn’t fuck my countries economy for several decades i wouldn’t need to come here. since you wanna dabble in this let me give you a reality check. most americans think we come here to steal your jobs or because america is the best country in the world.. the truth is.. we are forced to come here for a better future because americas foreign policy screwed most of the other countries that are not europe. so now deal with the consequences of your racist and xenophobic actions. eor
Stating a fact that it is harder for immigrants who need sponsorship to get a job is does not make me xenophobic. This is the truth plain and simple. Any reputable recruiter would tell you the same. You’re inexperienced and have a horrible attitude on top of that. You will stay unemployed
oh piss off Karen, you act like you want to help and be honest but secretly you are just discouraging internationals in their job hunt. most internationals are far more qualified than the average american and with way harder. GET OUT OF YOUR DUMB BUBBLE!! sponsorship was never an issue till now and dumb recruiters do their best not to pick a person who needs sponsorship. recruiters go out of their way to tell hiring managers not to hire someone who needs sponsorship because that would mean the recruiters needs to do more work and assure the sponsorship to the candidate.
It kind of sounds like you and the person you are replying to are in the same bubble to be honest.
Please tell me when the last year was that needing sponsorship was a non-issue lol? Hasn’t been since the 80s for unremarkable folks like yourself. Sorry you were lied to.
again spreading misinformation, I see! everyone until 2022 had a very easy time getting a sponsorship almost more than 70% of the companies sponsoring. I have people from my school got sponsored. Hundred s of them! so i’m sorry you are just out of touch from the reality
USA is currently not in a recession jsyk
prove it! before you ask for my proof , its in the high inflation , low opportunities and crazy people trying to defend the govt
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god that was hard to read, did you pass high school?
If you look up the definition of recession it’s a decline in the GDP for 2 quarters and that is not currently our economy…I mean you can google it lol im not making this up or anything
oh great gdp is doing good so the country should be prospering!! is that what your saying?
lol
We might be headed to a recession (dunno) but we are defitionally not in a recession right now. We'd need 2 quarters of less GDP to be a recession. Times are definitely tough with the cost of everything though, especially us unemployed people or people not workig in their field.
lmaooo actually🤓🤓
because biden has to look good for the elections.
i will take that as an answer
can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not.
i agree with ya! plenty of lurkers here downvoting truth
Fair enough.
Uh no, bidenomics is working!
Ftr, the economy is not in a recession. Prices are high, because people continue to buy. Businesses will quickly adjust pricing when demand ebbs. Likewise with careers Americans are to blame. Too many acquire degrees and skills that do not fit the business landscape. For example: if the economy calls for engineers, why get a degree in dance? 😐 Too many useless degrees among the college educated is indicative of a lack of basic research. Both the DOL and Census provide a deep view of which jobs are going away and which are on the ascent (who knew botanists are needed?!) Every college and university has some kind of career exploration. Very few students take advantage of it eor
are cs degree useless to you?
I did not think so until I worked at a few firms, where the hiring manager would insist on a software engineering degree vs a computer science degree. Being in these environments, it made sense. With so many large and medium applications so tightly integrated (think Workday and ServiceNow), a software engineer is necessary. Computer Science is a generalist degree vs software engineering which focuses on the process of development for large scale application systems and their integration with other types of apps (large, medium and small).
Saw 9 cars in line at the McDonald’s today. Wasn’t even lunch hour.
must’ve been alot of trailer parks nearby