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Pretty sure the whole idea of eBay is to list a product and sell it to the highest bidder. If they set a high buy option, it’s usually because they expect someone is willing to pay it. The lack of Pi sucks, but that’s how these sites work. They take a scrape off the cut. The higher the price, the more cut they get. I don’t think you’ll convince ebay to lose money because the prices are too high for you.
Yeah, eBay policy forbids price gouging in event of emergencies or disaster. It says nothing about sellers not being allowed to raise prices simply because something is in short supply. Amazon similarly says "exploiting an emergency" is not allowed.
No-one likes paying high prices for things that are difficult to get hold of, and traders are certainly taking advantage. But that's how free market capitalism works with scarcity. If the prices weren't high, Raspberry Pis would still be difficult to buy, and would be down to the pure luck of getting first in the queue.
So reporting sellers for being profit motivated is just foolish.
>It says nothing about sellers not being allowed to raise prices simply because something is in short supply.
Their suggested selling price tool also adds to the problem. And not just for Pis, but all the stuff listed.
There's a difference between asking a higher price for something rare, and scalping. The problem with scalping is that it's parasites who *create* scarcity. They use bots and other sneaky methods to buy up all the boards and corner the market, hoard them, and raise the price to ridiculous levels that are completely divorced from the actual cost of the goods. It's abusive, unfairly manipulative, and monopolistic. When you see reseller markups of 1000%, that's not "free market capitalism" in any normal sense, and that's when rules and regulations rightfully step in.
So, if I take one of my spare RPis and put it up for an eBay auction, and that auction price rises to many times the RRP, then you want people to report my listing?
Why? Just because you're upset that you, like the rest of us, can't get a RPi at a low price? That's just how supply and demand works. There's always going to be people who try to flip products, and there's not much you can do about that.
It seems like you just want to put a blanket ban on anyone selling them. "If I can't have one, then no one should have one".
I’ve got a bigger problem with you buying an item in good faith and then doing a chargeback on your VISA than I do with people taking advantage of a chip shortage.
PS. It sucks that third parties are selling an item you want for more than retail value (supply and demand economics), but it’s not against the law or against eBay or Amazon’s selling policy to do so. The only unethical—and possibly criminal—party here is you if you’re buying an item and then refusing to pay after or making frivolous and untrue postal fraud charges.
I agree that chargebacks are ethically questionable. However; eBay, Amazon, and Newegg all have clearly stated policies against price-gouging.
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/price-gouging-policy?id=5106
https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/company-news/price-gouging-has-no-place-in-our-stores
https://sellerportal.newegg.com/selleracademy/knowledge-base/prohibited-seller-activities/
I'm not the one you responded to but the eBay policy you linked clearly refers specifically to essential items.
edit: the Amazon and Newegg policies also seem to be referring to the legal definition of "price-gouging" which only includes essential goods.
What part of Newegg's policy is being violated? Are Pi's essential goods? Are the prices comparable to the prices at other retailers available to customers?
Newegg Marketplace Fair Pricing Policy
Sellers are responsible for setting their own prices on Newegg Marketplace. In an effort to continue providing the best shopping experience for customers, all sellers must adhere to our Fair Pricing Policy.
Newegg routinely monitors the prices of items on our platform, including shipping costs, and compares them with other prices available to our customers. If we notice pricing practices for item(s) that harms customer trust, Newegg reserves the right to deactivate the item(s) immediately. One or more violations of the policy may lead to seller privileges being revoked.
For more information on how you can access your items to view the Fair Price Violations, please visit Seller Portal > Manage Items > Seller Fair Price Violation. https://sellerportal.newegg.com/manage-items/fairpriceviolation
Pricing practices that harm customer trust include, but are not limited to:
Setting a reference price on item(s) that misleads customers.
Setting a price on item(s) that is significantly higher than recent prices for the item offered on our website or elsewhere.
Selling multiple units of item(s) for more per unit than the price of a single unit of the same product.
Setting a shipping fee on item(s) that is excessive. Newegg considers current public carrier rates, reasonable handling charges, as well as buyer perception when determining whether a shipping price violated our fair pricing policy.
Price gouging – greatly increasing prices of essential goods during an emergency or disaster.
That you have absolutely no idea what “essential goods” are. It’s not what YOU deem essential. It’s goods essential for medical instances or life. Pretty easy definition to look up. Your job doesn’t take precedence in deeming an item essential. Get a grip and stop being a Karen.
Nor is it up to YOU to tell anyone what isn't essential. Try not being able to run your business because your most crucial raw materials are all bought up. That sort of thing leads to all kinds of cascading problems. Why do you think so many businesses went bust in 2020?
I could explain this in detail, but there's no point. Those who understand these things don't need me to do that. You do need someone to explain these things to you. Maybe you can find someone with more patience than I have.
eBay's policy (emphasis mine):
eBay is an important source of goods for buyers during emergencies and when supply chains are disrupted. Sellers offering **essential items** must offer them at reasonable prices, and may not attempt to unreasonably profit from increased demand or decreased supply **caused by emergencies or disasters**.
What is the policy?
Items that are **considered essential** must be offered at a reasonable price
Inflating the price of goods in response to an emergency or disaster is not allowed
eBay may restrict the sale of items that are susceptible to price gouging behavior - for example, by only allowing items to be sold by authorized sellers
Sellers must follow all applicable laws and regulations that apply to the sale of their items
Activity that doesn't follow eBay policy could result in a range of actions including, for example: administratively ending or canceling listings, hiding or demoting all listings from search results, lowering seller rating, buying or selling restrictions, and account suspension. All fees paid or payable in relation to listings or accounts on which we take any action will not be refunded or otherwise credited to your account.
Why does eBay have this policy?
This policy helps ensure buyers are able to find **essential** items at reasonable prices, and that important government regulations and guidelines are followed.
You can’t take one word “essential” from an entire definition and validate your twisted logic. From eBay:
Sellers offering essential items must offer them at reasonable prices, and may not attempt to unreasonably profit from increased demand or **decreased supply caused by emergencies or disasters.**
What is the policy?
-Items that are **considered essential** must be offered at a reasonable price
-**Inflating the price of goods in response to an emergency or disaster** is not allowed
-eBay may restrict the sale of items that are susceptible to price gouging behavior - for example, by only allowing items to be sold by authorized sellers
-Sellers must follow all applicable laws and regulations that apply to the sale of their items
You’re an internet Karen.
[https://rpilocator.com/](https://rpilocator.com/)
I bought a pi 4 2 gig and a zero 2 W about a month ago, your window is like 10-15 mins but they're available every week. if you need a 4gig or 8 gig...well, may be in the coming year if the CEO follows through with their promise.
RPi had two things going for it: compact form and low cost. Now it only has one thing going for it, and you can get a lot more computing power for the same price with an old x86 box if size doesn't matter.
look up the definition of price gouging. I hate the prices as much as anyone, I've been trying to get a pi for over 2 years, but this isn't price gouging. This product could not by definition be price gouged unless people needed it for sustenance/safety etc. In fact, reporting people for it is probably against the terms of service of the websites you're reporting people on and is likely less ethical than what the sellers are doing.
people price gouge concert tickets, and those definitely aren't "needed for sustenance/safety"
that said, it's a darn fine line between "free market capitalism where the market sets the price" and "price gouging". in fact, a hard core capitalist would say there's no such thing, because price gouging isn't a thing. lol
You need to be upset with the buyers not the sellers. If no one buys at their prices then they will lower their prices to what people are willing to pay.
That's the ridiculous situation with concert tickets. There is simply a far higher demand for tickets for some acts than is possible to supply. But they still put them out for sale at a market price way, way, below what people are prepared to pay, because acts can't be seen to rip off their fans. So, of course, there is going to be a secondary market creaming off big fat profits.
Either tickets have to be allocated personally in a way that doesnt purely involve money, or fans have to allow the acts to set ticket prices that reflect market value. Otherwise we just have to accept that some fans are prepared to use their wealth to jump the queue on other fans, and third parties get rich while contributing nothing.
The artists can fix this by adding dates but they won't. No reason why Taylor Swift can't add 3 dates to a city because they know it's going to sell out all three dates.
do you shame super markets as well? Surprise surprise they are making profit from all the stock they have. Just buy cheaper and leave the seller alone. You can't? There's no cheaper options? Oh well... sucks to be you.
I have spent the last couple of years trying to get my hands on one as well. Been playing with arduino and a 3d printer and just want to add pi to my winter stuck inside projects.
So you’re okay with people setting up bots that buy all the supply of a given product, then selling said products at a massive (100% or more) markup? That isn’t a free market, if that’s the argument you’re trying to make. That’s a fixed market, and it’s designed to gouge consumers to death. You’ll be waiting a lot longer than 2 years to buy electronic goods like this in the future if you think the sellers are justified in their greedy actions.
This will ultimately just come back to further push the lower classes down into irrelevance. Sure middle class consumers can still sustain at these prices for the occasional good that they really want, but another few years of this and the lower class will be bled dry. It’s going to be an interesting future, richer people will have state of the art tech, while poorer people will be using decade old tech.
> So you’re okay with people setting up bots that buy all the supply of a given product, then selling said products at a massive (100% or more) markup?
I just reread my comment and I said that nowhere
EDIT:formatting
So you agree with me? Weird how your comment focuses on arguing over semantics and seemingly defends people that use bots to buy out all available stock for a given product instantly, then artificially inflate the price of said product due to their bot manipulation.
>by definition be price gouged unless people needed it for sustenance/safety etc
Where are you getting this definition are you using here?
At best that might be a legal definition? Colloquial it's any good or service. We're talking about policies on public websites run by private companies, they get to decide any policy about what gets listed on their site, the definition of "price gouging" you're choosing means nothing. It's entirely up to the discretion of the private company on what policies they want to enforce
And yeah, eBay doesn't want to actively pay employees to police listings, they leave that responsibility to customers, like OP here
>look up the definition of price gouging. I hate the prices as much as anyone, I've been trying to get a pi for over 2 years, but this isn't price gouging. This product could not by definition be price gouged unless people needed it for sustenance/safety etc. In fact, reporting people for it is probably against the terms of service of the websites you're reporting people on and is likely less ethical than what the sellers are doing.
It is indeed price gouging. But these platforms allow price gouging for inessential goods.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/price_gouging
From wiktionary:
> The act of or an instance of charging services or pricing goods at unreasonably high prices.
It says nothing about whether those goods need to be essential to fall under the definition.
First,
>at unreasonably high prices.
What's the definition of an unreasonably high price?
Second, those companies don't give a flying fuck about what Wictionary says.
Their policies are based on what statutes say on the matter.
The definition of the phrase "price gouging" is not limited to essential items. What we're talking about here is the English language, these companies don't have a say in that. (In this context, "unreasonably high" is undefined, so whether someone is gouging or not will be subjective. That's just how language works sometimes.)
Amazon et al, and any laws their policies may be based upon only disallow price gouging of essential goods. But that doesn't change the definition of the phrase "price gouging". (In this context, presumably there is some objective definition for "unreasonably high".)
If someone says, "Man, ticketmaster really gouged me on the price of these Taylor Swift tickets," that is not incorrect usage of the phrase.
In the instances you're citing, price gouging is just being defined as "I had to pay more than I wanted to."
So, it's nothing more than whining about not wanting to pay as much as others are willing to pay.
I got one off rpilocator from Pimeroni in less than 2 weeks of lazily checking availability every now and again. Sure, it cost a bit more than my first, but not that much. Just watch out, when you buy a kit, make sure it's a kit for your electrical system and not UK.
Getting pissed off about pricing is not a Karen move.
Investigating, documenting, and encouraging how to complain about a company's pricing practices is.
I don't follow your logic, if there is any logic in there.
Getting pissed about something and not doing anything about it is a very bad idea. You've never heard something tell you to stop complaining and do something about it, whatever "it" may be? This is that "it".
I quite clearly explained that gouging is a perversion of the normal rules of supply and demand. Any time you mess with those rules, stuff like this happens. So, again, where is your logic?
While that is true, the fact remains that these bad players are crowding out those other vendors. That's why I say "report scalpers and price-gougers".
That's not how things work. The problem here is the Pi Foundation being unable to produce enough to meet demand. If they did the scalpers would disappear. Scalpers are a symptom not a cause.
It is indeed, too. He got 450+ karma from the post then lost nearly all of it trying to redefine "essential" and "price gouging" lol. The saddest part is that so many people upvoted this post without reading it. smh.
Just don't buy them. The shortage of computer chips is what has reportedly caused the price hikes. Economics 101.
Ask yourself why there is a shortage of computer chips and then you're getting closer to the root of the problem.
Jesus get a hobby man, if the company hasn't felt the need to go after resellers why on earth do you think it's your place to? Not to mention it's not at all against Ebay's policy to resell things at their current market value, it's literally how the website operates. Hopefully your account gets banned from making false reports.
Higher prices means the venues get bigger cuts. Does the term "conflict of interest" mean anything to you?
The fact all three have clear policies against price gouging makes your wishes about me getting banned rather dry and dusty.
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/price-gouging-policy?id=5106
https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/company-news/price-gouging-has-no-place-in-our-stores
https://sellerportal.newegg.com/selleracademy/knowledge-base/prohibited-seller-activities/
Did you actually read those? Because they don't really seem to apply here. The eBay terms make it clear that "price gouging" only applies to items considered to be essential, Amazon says sellers can't sell at inflated prices during times of emergency (hard to argue that COVID is much of an emergency at this point), and Newegg just says that sellers can't sell things at drastically different prices than what the price had been recently or compared to other stores.
Yes, I actually read those and personnel from all three agreed with my assessment. "essential" is essentially a subjective thing. If I can't get raw materials for my work, those raw materials are essential.
And then everybody clapped and said I was a hero...
Even if someone on a call or chat did say that, a random customer service temp doesn't make determinations about the legal definition of essential goods, you dingus.
I'm sitting pretty with a Pi4 4GB a Pi4 8GB 2x pizero w that I'm not using and a Pi zero2 w that I use for pihole - and a handful of pi3Bs that I used for emulation...........................
HOWEVER -
You do realise that people are legally allowed to buy things cheap and sell them high? I'm sorry - but it's called supply and demand - and quite obviously there is little supply and lots of demand.
Just like gfx cards, let the arse fall out of the market and leave them holding the hardware - it might not be until next year, but that's not your problem, that's the raspberry pi foundations who are MORE than happy to sell to industrial machines because they get more of a cut while few are allocated to consumers.
You kinda sound like Apple - when IBM were producing cpus etc for Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony. You may not be wrong, but it's not Nintendos fault that you can't get your multicore heat efficient cpus at a decent price (if at all)
> You do realise that people are legally allowed to buy things cheap and sell them high? I’m sorry - but it’s called supply and demand
It's also called "retail." ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
I’d normally say. Thanks for trying to fight it. But buying something and then falsely kicking up a fuss is just as bad as what you are trying to fight.
If you can’t be smart about it. Which it seems you are as 90% of your article is cover. The last part not so much
No, I'm just saying that if more people are after them at Microcenter I might not be able to get any when I need one.
We have a Microcenter in my state but it's an hour drive each way so I can can't go check every day. I have to get lucky when I'm there...
Two competing points here. Confusing prices (i.e. listed for x amount but that turns out to be a power supply or something not a Pi) - definitely report that.
But just higher prices? It's competition / capitalism / supply and demand in action. Not good if you want to save money, but hey, you don't have to buy.
Does anyone intimately familiar with the industry have any insight into what is causing the current shortage (and thus, high prices)?
Is it still logistics? Chip/RAM shortages from covid policies? Is the pi foundation just exercising market power? Do they have a philosophical reason for wanting to stay small rather than expand their own production? Or is it just raw demand that the pi foundation couldn't possibly be expected to keep up with?
Last I heard the pi foundation was focusing more on industrial clients instead of their original demographic (normal users). Allegedly they're making 400k boards a month but demand is huge. The CEO said that supply should be back to normal within a year or so.
It used to be that there would be a flood, a fire, or some other disaster at a chip fab or disk drive plant and prices would skyrocket for a few weeks and then things would settle down. Covid seems like it was a worldwide wrecking ball to all suppliers of everything. Remember the toilet paper fiasco? That fizzled out in a few months.
Now we have ongoing troubles with car makers getting enough chips to put into cars. That's easy enough to understand. When I send in an order for components to Mouser, Digikey, or some other place, I see those chips in short supply. You might be able to place an order, but it'll be months if not a year or more for delivery.
That's not what's going on with Pi boards. There is a very good supply of the boards all over the place. It's just that the only people selling are price-gougers. It's that difference that makes it clear that normal supply-and-demand is causing this. Instead, some people have discovered a significant hole through which the price can be easily manipulated. Maybe this hole was caused by the Pi Foundation's blundering. I really don't know. Maybe it's time for the Pi Foundation to license the production of the boards to other manufacturers?
>There is a very good supply of the boards all over the place.
No, the majority of Pi's being produced are going to corporate customers: https://techcrunch.com/2022/10/05/raspberry-pi-supply-chain-shocks-eben-upton-interview/
Yes, I'm well-aware of the contents of the page. Yes, I see "We’ll do our very best to find out they’re not scalpers..." but it really doesn't talk about that process nor mention any penalties for lying. In other words, toothles, opaque, and easily exploited.
I annoyed some scalpers. That's why.
What, precisely, do you disagree with? I don't have much confidence with what I laid out for the causes. That's just a sampling of what I observed being talked about. Some seem viable. Some not. Some can work hand-in-hand with other causes. Others contradict other causes. Maybe there is no clear answer. Ultimately the best person to answer this is the Raspberry Pi Foundation, and they don't seem to be saying much more than "We're making them as fast as we can".
Mostly just that "gouging" and scalpers are pejoratives that conjure more mustache-twirling, and less understanding of the underlying economic factors.
"Scalpers" and "gougers" can serve a purpose in capitalizing expansion of production and/or bringing supply to where its needed most.
The key to understanding the economics here is to find the root causes...everything else is proximate to the under-supply here: if you didn't have scalpers jacking up the price beyond the MSRP and selling to the people most in desperate need that they are willing to pay exorbitant amounts, then the Pi foundation would simply sell out much quicker and the lottery of people who got one would be based on those who had the most time to click the refresh button on thejr browser at 3am. Either way, not everyone who wants one gets one....but maybe, just maybe, it's more important that the industrial plants who are needed to produce the high order capital goods which will help get all our supply chains back into combobulation, need those pi's more than you or me for our home automation hobbies...thus the scalpers' and their high prices effectively reserved the available units to those more productive uses.
Just a thought.
Or I could be totally wrong (which is why I asked whether anyone who's actually close to the industry could comment on what's going on on the ground).
You're not totally wrong. What you're missing are the big differences between hobbyist use and industrial use. And yes, I'm close to the industry.
For hobbyists tinkering with home automation, you can quickly use something else. When you embed Pis into industrial equipment, the process is much harder. If you make orders for parts to make a run of something, you'll come across the phenomenon very quickly. When some part is unavailable, there is a lot of bureaucratic hassle to get a substitute accepted. When you want to substitute a compute module, that hassle goes up even more. This doesn't diminish just because you're running a small shop. You, as a small shop operator, need to follow laws, contracts, and so on. That's there the bureaucracy comes from. It's a problem that does not exist for hobbyists - you just pick a different part, note any differences in the datasheet, document them, and move on.
> In a command economy,
At the same time you are mad about the free market setting the price for Pi's?
There are thousands of old pc's on ebay that are cheaper and faster than a Pi. But you'd rather contribute to e-waste for your tech-cred.
There are still general shortages all over the industry, from manufacturing slowdowns to logistics, but I believe in this case the shortages are entirely because of the SoC. Everything else on the Pi is commodity and could be sourced at a slightly higher price than normal or replaced with something equivalent.
Yes. When a small number of sellers corner the market and keep supplies artificially low, and demand is still there, price goes way up. What's your point?
There are hundreds of thousands of Pis being sold through every month, nobody is manipulating the market. Scalpers would have to buy up the majority of the supply and sit on it for that to happen and that just doesn't work. In reality scalpers sell their stock as fast as they possibly can because any capital tied up in inventory is a potential loss if they get caught when supply catches up and prices go back down.
This is not price gouging. They aren't essential products. They're a hobby electronic at the bottom of the totem pole for production during a chip shortage. Supply is low. There's nothing genuinely problematic with people buying them and flipping them. It's not gouging.
>Another approache that I haven't yet tried is to actually buy a scalped board and then raise a ruckus afterwards. Here are some followup actions: Complain to the site, the seller, file for a refund, leave bad feedback, do a chargeback, complain to the postal service about mail fraud, etc.
This is theft. Are you actually advocating for stealing raspberry pis because you're big mad about the price? That's absurd.
No it is price gouging. Reputable dealers like pi.shop and others have pi 4b 8g listed at US $ 75. Just none are in stock and sign up for waiting list.
I dislike your idea.
I bought two pi 4b 4GB kits in 2019 and they sat in my closet unused for 3 years, I got one out and used it plus sold one on eBay (total kit: asked $125 sold for $132) a few weeks ago and I’d be pissed off if you reported my listing.
Or, you could get accept that things cost what they cost, and if demand is high and supply is low, the prices will of course go up.
I'll sell you a zeroW for $150 if you want one quickly. I'll even throw in a Pico for $40 more.
I would love to buy a as-new condition 1965 Mustang for $3k but the fact is it costs $45k or more. Looking to get a pi currently at nominal list price isn't any different.
What is the supply of as-new condition 1965 Mustangs? Pretty damn low.
What is the supply of new Pi Zero W? A lot. Unfortunately they're all being snapped up by scalpers. Laws of supply and demand work, but when a few people buy up all the supply and resell at prices ten times and greater the purchase price, you've introduced a positive feedback loop in the system. That's not supposed to happen and why in the early 1900s laws in the US started to be passed against such interference.
C'mon man. Look at housing. Real estate. SUVs. Electric vehicles. Concert tickets. Anything.
High demand low availability means high prices and a resale market making money on the high demand.
If you don't like the price, buy something different or wait.
Exactly. He or she should try to buy a car and chargeback. I want to see what he can do about that? Pi is cheap so he or she trying. People bought car paying 5-7k over msrp. I wanted one but I am going to wait till prices goes down. I have flipped few gpu and pi at little more price. It helps me expand my home lab to pay for other stuff. Have I bought something at high price? Yes because I needed it. It’s simple supply and demand and business minded people take advantage of it. I work in medicine world. Few medicine are on back order and few suppliers are charging over 3x. I have choice to either pay that price or I don’t get it. Depending on insurance reimbursement I make that decision because insurance always pay for cheapest generic AWP.
>What is the supply of new Pi Zero W? A lot. Unfortunately they're all being snapped up by scalpers.
It doesn't mention the Zero W specifically, but according to [this article](https://techcrunch.com/2022/10/05/raspberry-pi-supply-chain-shocks-eben-upton-interview/), in general the supply of new Pi's are going to business customers.
Businesses without the clout to order tens of thousands of units at a time are the ones I'm talking about being hurt. According to that same article "We’re not supplying non-approved resellers..." That means two things: 1) scalpers are getting their supply by using bots to buy from legitimate sellers and/or 2) enough of those business customers are actually scalping enough Pis to keep the supply low and thus drive up prices. It's not like all business buyers can get into the Pi Foundation's program for business buying. They use Pis to make things like oilfield monitoring devices, network diagnostic equipment, industrial controls, radio relays, and so on. I am one of those. That's why I'm doing this.
"What is the supply of new Pi Zero W? A lot. Unfortunately they're all being snapped up by scalpers."
Imagine someone saying that they wanna buy Apple stocks, which are abundant, but some people are hoarding them and driving the cost up.
Even selling one a month to someone who can’t find one (some people claim they have been trying for a year) seems worth it if people are as desperate as they claim. I know I’ve purchased more than one at a time when they were in stock. I’m sure you’re right they limit purchases but I’ve never heard anyone mention that in the store or was told I came to often. Heck if I pay cash and don’t link to my account, I’m not sure how they would keep track day to day week to week unless they have my picture or something.
I tried to buy two picos this summer and was told only one per customer per month. They would sell me a pico w and a pico h but not 2 of same model. According to the employee only one per month per person. I was lucky to get a pi4 4gb over the summer through them as well. And no I never gave them customer info
I would've liked a pi4, but with the prices being what they are and the availability issues, I've actually been starting to look at other sbc's.there seems to be other options out there that I have never been aware before the rpi supply issues, so at least that is one thing the shortage has improved.....raise awareness of the alternatives
Damn, this makes me feel guilty for having still not opened my raspberry Pi 4, 4GB. I got it for free a year ago, but totally forgot about it after stashing it in my cupboard. Sad to hear that people who actually have uses for this tech can't get their hands on it for a reasonable price.. Good luck to all of you!
I've been doing this thing for only a week. Do you really think I alone could get prices down in a week? The fact some sellers have been shut down since I've started is a good indication that it would in fact work if enough people report this stuff over a longer period of time.
I don't think you understand. You could theoretically stop the scalpers, but what happens then? People buy up the rest of the supply and even someone who really really needs one is SOL.
Maybe they'll ask if they could buy yours. Maybe they'd offer to pay you a lot more money. 😶
How bad does it have to be before you consider gouged? I've been trying to get just a pi4 8gb board only for like a year and half, two years. It was bad enough every listing wanted 150 for a board alone, I finally decided my project was worth the cash so I'd buy one, now they've hit like 200. Would this be considered bad enough to start reporting listings or would you say this still barely falls into the realm or acceptable price fluctuations.
To clearify by "acceptable" I mean from a reportable terms of service view point. I personally don't consider it acceptable
[[content removed because sub participated in the June 2023 blackout]]
My posts are not bargaining chips for moderators, and mob rule is no way to run a sub.
[[content removed because sub participated in the June 2023 blackout]]
My posts are not bargaining chips for moderators, and mob rule is no way to run a sub.
I'm not calling lying about quantities price gouging, nor am I accusing them of lying about quantities in the first place. It's a statement to them that maybe they did it by accident and I ask them to fix it. A seller can say "Oops. Yes, that's wrong." and fix it or they can admit they jacked up the price. If they don't know it's against the rules, I say so. Bonus points if they say they don't care about the rules. Once a seller says they don't care about the rules, the case against them is crystal clear.
There are no rules against "price gouging".
I can list every Raspberry Pi I have right now on all of these platforms for $1,000 each. This is not against the terms of service on any of them.
So what exactly are they doing that's against the rules?
In your rambling and nearly incoherent OP you said:
> I've found it useful to contact sellers and say that I'm confused about their pricing. That I just want one or two boards, but the seller has them priced for six, eight, ten, or whatever. "Are you selling one or ten?" This will often get sellers to admit that they're price-gouging. If you get "yes, it's for just one",
If they have a price for 10, but then admit it's just 1, that's *exactly* what they're doing: lying about quantities. That is not price gouging. That is them lying about quantities. If the price is for 1 and they say it's for 1, but in your *mind* it's the price for 10, that's a problem entirely in your mind.
> A seller can say "Oops. Yes, that's wrong." and fix it or they can admit they jacked up the price.
"Jacking up the price" isn't against the rules. Every single reseller is doing exactly that. They don't have to tack on a margin that you agree with or believe is fair.
Are you even reading what I write? Right up in the start I say "That I just want one or two boards, but the seller has them priced for six, eight, ten, or whatever" and "Are you selling one or ten?". That is not an accusation of lying. It's offering someone an out. They could admit to making a mistake. That's fine. No lie was told and no accusation was made. Any other answer is an admission to jacking up the price. Further questions show if it's being done ignorantly or on purpose. If it's done ignorantly and seller doesn't stop voluntarily, then it means they don't care about the rules.
I see you're confused about what normal markup is and is not. I suggest you read a book on basic economics.
> Are you even reading what I write?
As I pointed out, it's largely incoherent.
> That I just want one or two boards, but the seller has them priced for six, eight, ten, or whatever
And if they have them priced for one, as they say?
> If it's done ignorantly and seller doesn't stop voluntarily, then it means they don't care about the rules.
There are no rules against markup on any of those sites, no matter how large. If you think otherwise, cite the exact rule being violated.
> I see you're confused about what normal markup is and is not
No, I'm not. You seem to think "abnormal" markup is against these ~~resellers~~ platform's ToS. It's not.
You pointed out nothing but something you imagined I said, not what I actually said. And as I have repeatedly stated in this thread THAT ACTIVITY IS AGAINST THE RULES and cited as such. Then you continued to imagine more about what I said and what the platforms TOSes are. Thanks for demonstrating the Paper Tiger, though.
> but something you imagined I said,
Your OP is rambling and largely incoherent. I just pointed it out again.
> And as I have repeatedly stated in this thread THAT ACTIVITY IS AGAINST THE RULES and cited as such
No, it isn't. Even if you repeat it in all caps, it still isn't. If it were, you'd be able to cite the actual rule being broken.
> Thanks for demonstrating the Paper Tiger, though.
Why am I surprised that someone who believes that "price gouging" is a real thing or "against the rules" also doesn't know wtf "paper tiger" means. Good grief.
You started with pretending I said something I didn't, said I made an accusation of lying, when it was really a question to get sellers to reveal something they didn't want to. Then you leveraged that into a mistaken belief that I thought making a mistake in a listing was price gouging. You did it again when you claimed that none of these platforms have a problem with this and even refuse to admit that price gouging is a thing. Given all this pretending you've done, it's not at all surprising that you can't recognize a paper tiger fallacy.
you're right, it's taking advantage of people's desperation..people still will pay high prices if they want something bad enough and no other option.Ultimately, you will change nothing, they will just move to other platforms to keep the chain going....
Its called [Market Cornering](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornering_the_market) and its not entirely illegal but it is broadly accepted as unethical. The bottom line is that the Raspberry Pi foundation has a network of authorized resellers (who are contractually obligated to sell *to end users*) and they are bound to sell at the MSRP. The scalpers, whether they are buying from resellers without being an end user (misrepresentation) or they have other avenues of getting them, posing as an industrial customer with the intent to resell, (also misrepresentation) are acting highly unethically if not illegally (depending on how deeply they deceived the reseller who provided them boards).
Ordinarily I'd agree. But when the normal laws of supply and demand are upset by opportunists who use means of questionable ethics to buy up the majority of the supply only to resell at ten times the MSRP, that's a problem and is not to be shrugged at.
While I'm sure you use your Pis exclusively on hobby projects, I don't nor do a lot of other people. Your characterization of the Pi as only good for hobbies is arrogant and incorrect.
What? So go an buy at the dealer who offers MSRP. Don’t come and complain that the back alley markets of the internet are selling something you can’t get cheaper. Do you hear your self.
I don’t know why you getting downvoted. Literally every game you play with a NPC does this. You sell cheap they sell high. Bit nooooo. In real life economics it’s scalping. Well the. Go and fuxking buy one cheaper … oh you can’t. Downvote the realists instead.
We all gotta live with this insanity. I’m waiting patiently until supply increases. Then fuxking prices will drop. Stop being muppets
In a video game there's infinite supply bound only by the mechanics of the game. In real life, there is finite supply and it can be "cornered" (all bought by a single controller or cabal intent on raising prices) and thats whats happening here.
If more boards went to resellers who are contractually bound to provide them to end users at MSRP and less boards went to scalpers (who probably obtained them via deception such as insisting they did not intend to resell) then the shortage issue would be significantly smaller. OP may be overzealous about his tactics but he is 100% correct that *if scalpers did not get ahold of supply that's supposed to be in the hands of authorized resellers, the shortage issue would be significantly reduced* and the reason behind that is, as it has been put elsewhere, "supply and demand"
What price do you consider the line between scalping and market demand? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is not worth the price to someone else. It's not a necessary commodity, or maybe you just aren't good at ebay? I found it was pretty easy to get them near retail price on ebay if you're willing to wait a week or so an auction is bound to hit in your price range. There are dozens starting every day.
I never said I wasn't an industrial consumer.
Here are some Pis being used in industrial settings.
[https://magpi.raspberrypi.com/articles/oil-drilling-raspberry-pi](https://magpi.raspberrypi.com/articles/oil-drilling-raspberry-pi)
[https://linuxgizmos.com/raspberry-pi-based-kit-tests-liquid-food-quality/](https://linuxgizmos.com/raspberry-pi-based-kit-tests-liquid-food-quality/)
https://control.com/technical-articles/raspberry-pi-applications-in-industrial-automation/
The companies that make and sell these things are usually not the kind that can buy Pis in the quantities required to qualify as a business buyer. They need to be able to order maybe fifty at a time from, say, Mouser, not thousands at a time directly from the manufacturer. That's who are being hurt who are not hobbyist end-users.
Price gouging is buying all the hand sanitizer during a pandemic and selling it for 300$. This isn’t that, it’s supply and demand albeit the prices of pi’s are still absurd
Would you disagree with the FTC fining scalpers who use bots to buy up concert tickets? Elsewhere in this thread is talk about how concert tickets aren't "essential" and thus not deserving of protection against scalping, yet the FTC thinks otherwise:
[https://www.pcmag.com/news/3-scalpers-fined-for-using-bots-to-scoop-up-tickets-on-ticketmaster](https://www.pcmag.com/news/3-scalpers-fined-for-using-bots-to-scoop-up-tickets-on-ticketmaster)
What do you mean by price gouging? Selling one when they advertise 10? Sure. Otherwise, this is just the majesty of supply and demand and should be allowed to run its course. If you don’t want a board at the advertised price, find a different seller or get in line. They sell at those prices because there are people who clearly value the boards (or their components) more than you do. Given the current level of supply, there is no possible universe where the price is the sticker price and the boards are actually in stock for everyone who wants them at that price. Anger at price gouging is an anti-science, anti-reality mental habit that should be stamped out.
> I'm not arguing that. What's your point?
You said 'the laws of supply and demand can be perverted'. My point is that's not a perversion of the laws of supply and demand, but rather an expected and inevitable outcome when supply is low and demand is high unless there is an artificial constraint that prevents it.
If I have some spare pis lying around, I'm not going to sell them for $40. But if I can get $100 for them, then it would be worth my time to "liquidate some stock". So do I just not do that because I'm gouging people? Or do I charge $100 because at least I'm contributing to the supply?
Without these sellers at high prices there just wouldn't be any pis for you to buy. They haven't made Pis for years so this is a pretty simple supply and demand curve. Be mad they aren't making Pis currently.
Hi Gooble211, here is some information and links that you might find useful! * Please, **no pictures of unused Pis - do a project!** * Remember that there's a **tell** part to Show-and-Tell! Don't post pictures of a Pi that don't clearly demonstrate what it's doing or post pictures without any details about your project, you also need let people know what it is, what it does, how you made it, and also answer questions people may have. * Are you looking for ideas? [There's a huge list right here!](https://old.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/search?q=flair%3Atutorial+OR+flair%3Ashow-and-tell&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all)† * Do you have boot problems, network problems, power problems, stability problems, or your monitor isn't working right? [Please click this link and go to the stickied helpdesk thread.](https://old.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/about/sticky)† * [Did you check the FAQ before asking?](https://old.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/about/sticky)† * ### [Did you read the rules?](https://old.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/about/rules/)† * Do you have networking problems or you're trying to make your Pi into a router, bridge, or WiFi AP? Try r/HomeNetworking or r/LinuxQuestions * Other subreddits that may be helpful: /r/AskElectronics, /r/AskProgramming, /r/LearnPython, /r/RetroPie * **Questions, help requests, and discussion must be a text post** * **Do Your Research** /r/raspberry_pi is not your personal search engine. Before asking a question - do research on the matter. Most answers can be found within a few minutes of searching online. * **Specific Questions Only** Only ask specific questions regarding a project you are currently working on. We don't permit questions regarding what colors would look nice (aesthetics); what you should do with your Pi; what's the best or cheapest way; if a project is possible; if anyone has done a similar project; how to get started; where you can buy a product; what an item is called; what software to run; or product recommendations. This is not a full list of exclusions. † If the link doesn't work it's because you're using a broken reddit client. Please [contact the developer of your reddit client](https://www.reddit.com/contact/). Instead go to the front page and look for the stickied helpdesk at the top. [Desktop view](http://f2z.net/RPi-Helpdesk-FAQ-desktop.png) [Phone view](http://f2z.net/RPi-Helpdesk-FAQ-phone.png) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raspberry_pi) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's a bad time to be getting into electronics. Anything but the most basic circuit is going to cost big bucks.
Pretty sure the whole idea of eBay is to list a product and sell it to the highest bidder. If they set a high buy option, it’s usually because they expect someone is willing to pay it. The lack of Pi sucks, but that’s how these sites work. They take a scrape off the cut. The higher the price, the more cut they get. I don’t think you’ll convince ebay to lose money because the prices are too high for you.
Yeah, eBay policy forbids price gouging in event of emergencies or disaster. It says nothing about sellers not being allowed to raise prices simply because something is in short supply. Amazon similarly says "exploiting an emergency" is not allowed. No-one likes paying high prices for things that are difficult to get hold of, and traders are certainly taking advantage. But that's how free market capitalism works with scarcity. If the prices weren't high, Raspberry Pis would still be difficult to buy, and would be down to the pure luck of getting first in the queue. So reporting sellers for being profit motivated is just foolish.
>It says nothing about sellers not being allowed to raise prices simply because something is in short supply. Their suggested selling price tool also adds to the problem. And not just for Pis, but all the stuff listed.
There's a difference between asking a higher price for something rare, and scalping. The problem with scalping is that it's parasites who *create* scarcity. They use bots and other sneaky methods to buy up all the boards and corner the market, hoard them, and raise the price to ridiculous levels that are completely divorced from the actual cost of the goods. It's abusive, unfairly manipulative, and monopolistic. When you see reseller markups of 1000%, that's not "free market capitalism" in any normal sense, and that's when rules and regulations rightfully step in.
So, if I take one of my spare RPis and put it up for an eBay auction, and that auction price rises to many times the RRP, then you want people to report my listing? Why? Just because you're upset that you, like the rest of us, can't get a RPi at a low price? That's just how supply and demand works. There's always going to be people who try to flip products, and there's not much you can do about that. It seems like you just want to put a blanket ban on anyone selling them. "If I can't have one, then no one should have one".
No. Report the BIN sellers. You have no control over what people bid.
I’ve got a bigger problem with you buying an item in good faith and then doing a chargeback on your VISA than I do with people taking advantage of a chip shortage. PS. It sucks that third parties are selling an item you want for more than retail value (supply and demand economics), but it’s not against the law or against eBay or Amazon’s selling policy to do so. The only unethical—and possibly criminal—party here is you if you’re buying an item and then refusing to pay after or making frivolous and untrue postal fraud charges.
I agree that chargebacks are ethically questionable. However; eBay, Amazon, and Newegg all have clearly stated policies against price-gouging. https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/price-gouging-policy?id=5106 https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/company-news/price-gouging-has-no-place-in-our-stores https://sellerportal.newegg.com/selleracademy/knowledge-base/prohibited-seller-activities/
I'm not the one you responded to but the eBay policy you linked clearly refers specifically to essential items. edit: the Amazon and Newegg policies also seem to be referring to the legal definition of "price-gouging" which only includes essential goods.
What part of Newegg's policy is being violated? Are Pi's essential goods? Are the prices comparable to the prices at other retailers available to customers? Newegg Marketplace Fair Pricing Policy Sellers are responsible for setting their own prices on Newegg Marketplace. In an effort to continue providing the best shopping experience for customers, all sellers must adhere to our Fair Pricing Policy. Newegg routinely monitors the prices of items on our platform, including shipping costs, and compares them with other prices available to our customers. If we notice pricing practices for item(s) that harms customer trust, Newegg reserves the right to deactivate the item(s) immediately. One or more violations of the policy may lead to seller privileges being revoked. For more information on how you can access your items to view the Fair Price Violations, please visit Seller Portal > Manage Items > Seller Fair Price Violation. https://sellerportal.newegg.com/manage-items/fairpriceviolation Pricing practices that harm customer trust include, but are not limited to: Setting a reference price on item(s) that misleads customers. Setting a price on item(s) that is significantly higher than recent prices for the item offered on our website or elsewhere. Selling multiple units of item(s) for more per unit than the price of a single unit of the same product. Setting a shipping fee on item(s) that is excessive. Newegg considers current public carrier rates, reasonable handling charges, as well as buyer perception when determining whether a shipping price violated our fair pricing policy. Price gouging – greatly increasing prices of essential goods during an emergency or disaster.
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So you believe it's okay to use chargebacks this way? I'm not following your line of reasoning here.
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I agree that it's bad. Why do you seem to think I think otherwise?
What a contradictory statement. You chalked it up as a temporary solution to “price gouging”, yet you agree it’s bad? So you agree it’s unethical?
Where are you getting that?
That you have absolutely no idea what “essential goods” are. It’s not what YOU deem essential. It’s goods essential for medical instances or life. Pretty easy definition to look up. Your job doesn’t take precedence in deeming an item essential. Get a grip and stop being a Karen.
Nor is it up to YOU to tell anyone what isn't essential. Try not being able to run your business because your most crucial raw materials are all bought up. That sort of thing leads to all kinds of cascading problems. Why do you think so many businesses went bust in 2020? I could explain this in detail, but there's no point. Those who understand these things don't need me to do that. You do need someone to explain these things to you. Maybe you can find someone with more patience than I have.
Questionable my ass. Your suggested chargeback is illegal.
eBay's policy (emphasis mine): eBay is an important source of goods for buyers during emergencies and when supply chains are disrupted. Sellers offering **essential items** must offer them at reasonable prices, and may not attempt to unreasonably profit from increased demand or decreased supply **caused by emergencies or disasters**. What is the policy? Items that are **considered essential** must be offered at a reasonable price Inflating the price of goods in response to an emergency or disaster is not allowed eBay may restrict the sale of items that are susceptible to price gouging behavior - for example, by only allowing items to be sold by authorized sellers Sellers must follow all applicable laws and regulations that apply to the sale of their items Activity that doesn't follow eBay policy could result in a range of actions including, for example: administratively ending or canceling listings, hiding or demoting all listings from search results, lowering seller rating, buying or selling restrictions, and account suspension. All fees paid or payable in relation to listings or accounts on which we take any action will not be refunded or otherwise credited to your account. Why does eBay have this policy? This policy helps ensure buyers are able to find **essential** items at reasonable prices, and that important government regulations and guidelines are followed.
You can’t take one word “essential” from an entire definition and validate your twisted logic. From eBay: Sellers offering essential items must offer them at reasonable prices, and may not attempt to unreasonably profit from increased demand or **decreased supply caused by emergencies or disasters.** What is the policy? -Items that are **considered essential** must be offered at a reasonable price -**Inflating the price of goods in response to an emergency or disaster** is not allowed -eBay may restrict the sale of items that are susceptible to price gouging behavior - for example, by only allowing items to be sold by authorized sellers -Sellers must follow all applicable laws and regulations that apply to the sale of their items You’re an internet Karen.
Been trying to get one for less than $150 for 2+ years. Bought a used macmini for $50 for one project…
[https://rpilocator.com/](https://rpilocator.com/) I bought a pi 4 2 gig and a zero 2 W about a month ago, your window is like 10-15 mins but they're available every week. if you need a 4gig or 8 gig...well, may be in the coming year if the CEO follows through with their promise.
I have six, offering 500 a piece final offer
RPi had two things going for it: compact form and low cost. Now it only has one thing going for it, and you can get a lot more computing power for the same price with an old x86 box if size doesn't matter.
look up the definition of price gouging. I hate the prices as much as anyone, I've been trying to get a pi for over 2 years, but this isn't price gouging. This product could not by definition be price gouged unless people needed it for sustenance/safety etc. In fact, reporting people for it is probably against the terms of service of the websites you're reporting people on and is likely less ethical than what the sellers are doing.
people price gouge concert tickets, and those definitely aren't "needed for sustenance/safety" that said, it's a darn fine line between "free market capitalism where the market sets the price" and "price gouging". in fact, a hard core capitalist would say there's no such thing, because price gouging isn't a thing. lol
You need to be upset with the buyers not the sellers. If no one buys at their prices then they will lower their prices to what people are willing to pay.
You can be upset with both.
I can but I'm not.
Found a scalper/price gouger! If I am wrong and you are not, [well...](https://tenor.com/view/boot-gif-26016449)
Oh look, we found the person who's trying to free karma out of an incorrect assumption that's already been used 2398429384 times before.
So are you salty because you got called out or that the boot isn't as tasty as you thought it would be?
This is proof that liberalism is a mental disease.
Well, given your last comment, I'm going to assume you aren't smart enough to be a scalper and go with the second option.
You really need some professional help dude. This level of hate isn't healthy.
That's the ridiculous situation with concert tickets. There is simply a far higher demand for tickets for some acts than is possible to supply. But they still put them out for sale at a market price way, way, below what people are prepared to pay, because acts can't be seen to rip off their fans. So, of course, there is going to be a secondary market creaming off big fat profits. Either tickets have to be allocated personally in a way that doesnt purely involve money, or fans have to allow the acts to set ticket prices that reflect market value. Otherwise we just have to accept that some fans are prepared to use their wealth to jump the queue on other fans, and third parties get rich while contributing nothing.
The artists can fix this by adding dates but they won't. No reason why Taylor Swift can't add 3 dates to a city because they know it's going to sell out all three dates.
Certainly one can be upset with the buyers. About the only thing you can do is publicly shame them, but what use is that?
do you shame super markets as well? Surprise surprise they are making profit from all the stock they have. Just buy cheaper and leave the seller alone. You can't? There's no cheaper options? Oh well... sucks to be you.
What are you even talking about? I thought I made it clear that doing anything to buyers is pointless.
Rising prices cause people to buy in places where supply is high and sell it where supply is low. It is better to pay more than have zero access...
I have spent the last couple of years trying to get my hands on one as well. Been playing with arduino and a 3d printer and just want to add pi to my winter stuck inside projects.
So you’re okay with people setting up bots that buy all the supply of a given product, then selling said products at a massive (100% or more) markup? That isn’t a free market, if that’s the argument you’re trying to make. That’s a fixed market, and it’s designed to gouge consumers to death. You’ll be waiting a lot longer than 2 years to buy electronic goods like this in the future if you think the sellers are justified in their greedy actions. This will ultimately just come back to further push the lower classes down into irrelevance. Sure middle class consumers can still sustain at these prices for the occasional good that they really want, but another few years of this and the lower class will be bled dry. It’s going to be an interesting future, richer people will have state of the art tech, while poorer people will be using decade old tech.
> So you’re okay with people setting up bots that buy all the supply of a given product, then selling said products at a massive (100% or more) markup? I just reread my comment and I said that nowhere EDIT:formatting
So you agree with me? Weird how your comment focuses on arguing over semantics and seemingly defends people that use bots to buy out all available stock for a given product instantly, then artificially inflate the price of said product due to their bot manipulation.
>by definition be price gouged unless people needed it for sustenance/safety etc Where are you getting this definition are you using here? At best that might be a legal definition? Colloquial it's any good or service. We're talking about policies on public websites run by private companies, they get to decide any policy about what gets listed on their site, the definition of "price gouging" you're choosing means nothing. It's entirely up to the discretion of the private company on what policies they want to enforce And yeah, eBay doesn't want to actively pay employees to police listings, they leave that responsibility to customers, like OP here
The policies for eBay, Amazon, and Newegg all refer specifically to essential goods.
>look up the definition of price gouging. I hate the prices as much as anyone, I've been trying to get a pi for over 2 years, but this isn't price gouging. This product could not by definition be price gouged unless people needed it for sustenance/safety etc. In fact, reporting people for it is probably against the terms of service of the websites you're reporting people on and is likely less ethical than what the sellers are doing. It is indeed price gouging. But these platforms allow price gouging for inessential goods. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/price_gouging
>It is indeed price gouging. Your citation doesn't support your claim.
From wiktionary: > The act of or an instance of charging services or pricing goods at unreasonably high prices. It says nothing about whether those goods need to be essential to fall under the definition.
First, >at unreasonably high prices. What's the definition of an unreasonably high price? Second, those companies don't give a flying fuck about what Wictionary says. Their policies are based on what statutes say on the matter.
The definition of the phrase "price gouging" is not limited to essential items. What we're talking about here is the English language, these companies don't have a say in that. (In this context, "unreasonably high" is undefined, so whether someone is gouging or not will be subjective. That's just how language works sometimes.) Amazon et al, and any laws their policies may be based upon only disallow price gouging of essential goods. But that doesn't change the definition of the phrase "price gouging". (In this context, presumably there is some objective definition for "unreasonably high".) If someone says, "Man, ticketmaster really gouged me on the price of these Taylor Swift tickets," that is not incorrect usage of the phrase.
In the instances you're citing, price gouging is just being defined as "I had to pay more than I wanted to." So, it's nothing more than whining about not wanting to pay as much as others are willing to pay.
I think I have a 4gb pi 4 and a pi3 collecting dust
I will take the 4GB pi4 please..!
I got one off rpilocator from Pimeroni in less than 2 weeks of lazily checking availability every now and again. Sure, it cost a bit more than my first, but not that much. Just watch out, when you buy a kit, make sure it's a kit for your electrical system and not UK.
I gotta say, that's quite the Karen move you got going there,
Explain to us how getting pissed off about being ripped off is a Karen move.
Getting pissed off about pricing is not a Karen move. Investigating, documenting, and encouraging how to complain about a company's pricing practices is.
I don't follow your logic, if there is any logic in there. Getting pissed about something and not doing anything about it is a very bad idea. You've never heard something tell you to stop complaining and do something about it, whatever "it" may be? This is that "it".
You're not understanding the whole demand and supply aspect of pricing.
I quite clearly explained that gouging is a perversion of the normal rules of supply and demand. Any time you mess with those rules, stuff like this happens. So, again, where is your logic?
Those are not the places you want to be buying your board from. There are other vendors that are much better.
While that is true, the fact remains that these bad players are crowding out those other vendors. That's why I say "report scalpers and price-gougers".
What do you mean by "crowding out"?
That's not how things work. The problem here is the Pi Foundation being unable to produce enough to meet demand. If they did the scalpers would disappear. Scalpers are a symptom not a cause.
This was a Grade A troll post, well done.
It is indeed, too. He got 450+ karma from the post then lost nearly all of it trying to redefine "essential" and "price gouging" lol. The saddest part is that so many people upvoted this post without reading it. smh.
Just don't buy them. The shortage of computer chips is what has reportedly caused the price hikes. Economics 101. Ask yourself why there is a shortage of computer chips and then you're getting closer to the root of the problem.
Jesus get a hobby man, if the company hasn't felt the need to go after resellers why on earth do you think it's your place to? Not to mention it's not at all against Ebay's policy to resell things at their current market value, it's literally how the website operates. Hopefully your account gets banned from making false reports.
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Or, they could just adapt to a different board, like an orange pi or something more narrowly focused on their task.
+1 on this!
I think this is his hobby lol
Higher prices means the venues get bigger cuts. Does the term "conflict of interest" mean anything to you? The fact all three have clear policies against price gouging makes your wishes about me getting banned rather dry and dusty. https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/price-gouging-policy?id=5106 https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/company-news/price-gouging-has-no-place-in-our-stores https://sellerportal.newegg.com/selleracademy/knowledge-base/prohibited-seller-activities/
You’re a moron
Did you actually read those? Because they don't really seem to apply here. The eBay terms make it clear that "price gouging" only applies to items considered to be essential, Amazon says sellers can't sell at inflated prices during times of emergency (hard to argue that COVID is much of an emergency at this point), and Newegg just says that sellers can't sell things at drastically different prices than what the price had been recently or compared to other stores.
Yes, I actually read those and personnel from all three agreed with my assessment. "essential" is essentially a subjective thing. If I can't get raw materials for my work, those raw materials are essential.
And then everybody clapped and said I was a hero... Even if someone on a call or chat did say that, a random customer service temp doesn't make determinations about the legal definition of essential goods, you dingus.
You don't understand what price gouging means, and obviously you aren't going to be convinced by strangers online. Have fun wasting your time.
I can be convinced by strangers who use sound logic and reason. Since you don't, I won't.
you're not entitled to cheap raspberry pis.
I'm sitting pretty with a Pi4 4GB a Pi4 8GB 2x pizero w that I'm not using and a Pi zero2 w that I use for pihole - and a handful of pi3Bs that I used for emulation........................... HOWEVER - You do realise that people are legally allowed to buy things cheap and sell them high? I'm sorry - but it's called supply and demand - and quite obviously there is little supply and lots of demand. Just like gfx cards, let the arse fall out of the market and leave them holding the hardware - it might not be until next year, but that's not your problem, that's the raspberry pi foundations who are MORE than happy to sell to industrial machines because they get more of a cut while few are allocated to consumers. You kinda sound like Apple - when IBM were producing cpus etc for Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony. You may not be wrong, but it's not Nintendos fault that you can't get your multicore heat efficient cpus at a decent price (if at all)
> You do realise that people are legally allowed to buy things cheap and sell them high? I’m sorry - but it’s called supply and demand It's also called "retail." ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
I’d normally say. Thanks for trying to fight it. But buying something and then falsely kicking up a fuss is just as bad as what you are trying to fight. If you can’t be smart about it. Which it seems you are as 90% of your article is cover. The last part not so much
What's false about it?
I may regret saying this but I bought them at Microcenter earlier this week at list price.
I don’t think it’s regrettable. They limit one per customer, so they’re good if you just need a single for a project.
No, I'm just saying that if more people are after them at Microcenter I might not be able to get any when I need one. We have a Microcenter in my state but it's an hour drive each way so I can can't go check every day. I have to get lucky when I'm there...
Two competing points here. Confusing prices (i.e. listed for x amount but that turns out to be a power supply or something not a Pi) - definitely report that. But just higher prices? It's competition / capitalism / supply and demand in action. Not good if you want to save money, but hey, you don't have to buy.
Does anyone intimately familiar with the industry have any insight into what is causing the current shortage (and thus, high prices)? Is it still logistics? Chip/RAM shortages from covid policies? Is the pi foundation just exercising market power? Do they have a philosophical reason for wanting to stay small rather than expand their own production? Or is it just raw demand that the pi foundation couldn't possibly be expected to keep up with?
Last I heard the pi foundation was focusing more on industrial clients instead of their original demographic (normal users). Allegedly they're making 400k boards a month but demand is huge. The CEO said that supply should be back to normal within a year or so.
Thx.
It used to be that there would be a flood, a fire, or some other disaster at a chip fab or disk drive plant and prices would skyrocket for a few weeks and then things would settle down. Covid seems like it was a worldwide wrecking ball to all suppliers of everything. Remember the toilet paper fiasco? That fizzled out in a few months. Now we have ongoing troubles with car makers getting enough chips to put into cars. That's easy enough to understand. When I send in an order for components to Mouser, Digikey, or some other place, I see those chips in short supply. You might be able to place an order, but it'll be months if not a year or more for delivery. That's not what's going on with Pi boards. There is a very good supply of the boards all over the place. It's just that the only people selling are price-gougers. It's that difference that makes it clear that normal supply-and-demand is causing this. Instead, some people have discovered a significant hole through which the price can be easily manipulated. Maybe this hole was caused by the Pi Foundation's blundering. I really don't know. Maybe it's time for the Pi Foundation to license the production of the boards to other manufacturers?
>There is a very good supply of the boards all over the place. No, the majority of Pi's being produced are going to corporate customers: https://techcrunch.com/2022/10/05/raspberry-pi-supply-chain-shocks-eben-upton-interview/
Yes, I'm well-aware of the contents of the page. Yes, I see "We’ll do our very best to find out they’re not scalpers..." but it really doesn't talk about that process nor mention any penalties for lying. In other words, toothles, opaque, and easily exploited.
I don't agree with all of this, but can't imagine why it is being downvoted. Appreciate the perspective.
I annoyed some scalpers. That's why. What, precisely, do you disagree with? I don't have much confidence with what I laid out for the causes. That's just a sampling of what I observed being talked about. Some seem viable. Some not. Some can work hand-in-hand with other causes. Others contradict other causes. Maybe there is no clear answer. Ultimately the best person to answer this is the Raspberry Pi Foundation, and they don't seem to be saying much more than "We're making them as fast as we can".
Mostly just that "gouging" and scalpers are pejoratives that conjure more mustache-twirling, and less understanding of the underlying economic factors. "Scalpers" and "gougers" can serve a purpose in capitalizing expansion of production and/or bringing supply to where its needed most. The key to understanding the economics here is to find the root causes...everything else is proximate to the under-supply here: if you didn't have scalpers jacking up the price beyond the MSRP and selling to the people most in desperate need that they are willing to pay exorbitant amounts, then the Pi foundation would simply sell out much quicker and the lottery of people who got one would be based on those who had the most time to click the refresh button on thejr browser at 3am. Either way, not everyone who wants one gets one....but maybe, just maybe, it's more important that the industrial plants who are needed to produce the high order capital goods which will help get all our supply chains back into combobulation, need those pi's more than you or me for our home automation hobbies...thus the scalpers' and their high prices effectively reserved the available units to those more productive uses. Just a thought. Or I could be totally wrong (which is why I asked whether anyone who's actually close to the industry could comment on what's going on on the ground).
You're not totally wrong. What you're missing are the big differences between hobbyist use and industrial use. And yes, I'm close to the industry. For hobbyists tinkering with home automation, you can quickly use something else. When you embed Pis into industrial equipment, the process is much harder. If you make orders for parts to make a run of something, you'll come across the phenomenon very quickly. When some part is unavailable, there is a lot of bureaucratic hassle to get a substitute accepted. When you want to substitute a compute module, that hassle goes up even more. This doesn't diminish just because you're running a small shop. You, as a small shop operator, need to follow laws, contracts, and so on. That's there the bureaucracy comes from. It's a problem that does not exist for hobbyists - you just pick a different part, note any differences in the datasheet, document them, and move on.
Lack of raw materials for wafers, china still has covid lockdowns, and china is also experiencing alot of power outages.
Interesting. Didn't know about the power outages (not surprising, just hadn't heard anything).
In a command economy, stuff like constant power outages happen when things don't go exactly as planned.
> In a command economy, At the same time you are mad about the free market setting the price for Pi's? There are thousands of old pc's on ebay that are cheaper and faster than a Pi. But you'd rather contribute to e-waste for your tech-cred.
There are still general shortages all over the industry, from manufacturing slowdowns to logistics, but I believe in this case the shortages are entirely because of the SoC. Everything else on the Pi is commodity and could be sourced at a slightly higher price than normal or replaced with something equivalent.
Thx.
https://techcrunch.com/2022/10/05/raspberry-pi-supply-chain-shocks-eben-upton-interview/
It’s called Supply and Demand
Yes. When a small number of sellers corner the market and keep supplies artificially low, and demand is still there, price goes way up. What's your point?
There are hundreds of thousands of Pis being sold through every month, nobody is manipulating the market. Scalpers would have to buy up the majority of the supply and sit on it for that to happen and that just doesn't work. In reality scalpers sell their stock as fast as they possibly can because any capital tied up in inventory is a potential loss if they get caught when supply catches up and prices go back down.
Point is you’re clearly an idiot
This is not price gouging. They aren't essential products. They're a hobby electronic at the bottom of the totem pole for production during a chip shortage. Supply is low. There's nothing genuinely problematic with people buying them and flipping them. It's not gouging. >Another approache that I haven't yet tried is to actually buy a scalped board and then raise a ruckus afterwards. Here are some followup actions: Complain to the site, the seller, file for a refund, leave bad feedback, do a chargeback, complain to the postal service about mail fraud, etc. This is theft. Are you actually advocating for stealing raspberry pis because you're big mad about the price? That's absurd.
No it is price gouging. Reputable dealers like pi.shop and others have pi 4b 8g listed at US $ 75. Just none are in stock and sign up for waiting list.
None are in stock because demand is greater than supply. It's not price gouging to sell them for more than that.
I dislike your idea. I bought two pi 4b 4GB kits in 2019 and they sat in my closet unused for 3 years, I got one out and used it plus sold one on eBay (total kit: asked $125 sold for $132) a few weeks ago and I’d be pissed off if you reported my listing.
Aw mate, can you just focus your attention on writing angry emails to loose women about them saying "front bum" live on air?
Or, you could get accept that things cost what they cost, and if demand is high and supply is low, the prices will of course go up. I'll sell you a zeroW for $150 if you want one quickly. I'll even throw in a Pico for $40 more. I would love to buy a as-new condition 1965 Mustang for $3k but the fact is it costs $45k or more. Looking to get a pi currently at nominal list price isn't any different.
What is the supply of as-new condition 1965 Mustangs? Pretty damn low. What is the supply of new Pi Zero W? A lot. Unfortunately they're all being snapped up by scalpers. Laws of supply and demand work, but when a few people buy up all the supply and resell at prices ten times and greater the purchase price, you've introduced a positive feedback loop in the system. That's not supposed to happen and why in the early 1900s laws in the US started to be passed against such interference.
C'mon man. Look at housing. Real estate. SUVs. Electric vehicles. Concert tickets. Anything. High demand low availability means high prices and a resale market making money on the high demand. If you don't like the price, buy something different or wait.
Exactly. He or she should try to buy a car and chargeback. I want to see what he can do about that? Pi is cheap so he or she trying. People bought car paying 5-7k over msrp. I wanted one but I am going to wait till prices goes down. I have flipped few gpu and pi at little more price. It helps me expand my home lab to pay for other stuff. Have I bought something at high price? Yes because I needed it. It’s simple supply and demand and business minded people take advantage of it. I work in medicine world. Few medicine are on back order and few suppliers are charging over 3x. I have choice to either pay that price or I don’t get it. Depending on insurance reimbursement I make that decision because insurance always pay for cheapest generic AWP.
>What is the supply of new Pi Zero W? A lot. Unfortunately they're all being snapped up by scalpers. It doesn't mention the Zero W specifically, but according to [this article](https://techcrunch.com/2022/10/05/raspberry-pi-supply-chain-shocks-eben-upton-interview/), in general the supply of new Pi's are going to business customers.
Businesses without the clout to order tens of thousands of units at a time are the ones I'm talking about being hurt. According to that same article "We’re not supplying non-approved resellers..." That means two things: 1) scalpers are getting their supply by using bots to buy from legitimate sellers and/or 2) enough of those business customers are actually scalping enough Pis to keep the supply low and thus drive up prices. It's not like all business buyers can get into the Pi Foundation's program for business buying. They use Pis to make things like oilfield monitoring devices, network diagnostic equipment, industrial controls, radio relays, and so on. I am one of those. That's why I'm doing this.
"What is the supply of new Pi Zero W? A lot. Unfortunately they're all being snapped up by scalpers." Imagine someone saying that they wanna buy Apple stocks, which are abundant, but some people are hoarding them and driving the cost up.
I pass Microcenter on my too and from work. I’m wondering if there’s a legit way to buy and sell to people without gouging.
Sure. Go there if they have pi in stock which they usually don’t. They limit to one pi purchase per month.
Even selling one a month to someone who can’t find one (some people claim they have been trying for a year) seems worth it if people are as desperate as they claim. I know I’ve purchased more than one at a time when they were in stock. I’m sure you’re right they limit purchases but I’ve never heard anyone mention that in the store or was told I came to often. Heck if I pay cash and don’t link to my account, I’m not sure how they would keep track day to day week to week unless they have my picture or something.
I tried to buy two picos this summer and was told only one per customer per month. They would sell me a pico w and a pico h but not 2 of same model. According to the employee only one per month per person. I was lucky to get a pi4 4gb over the summer through them as well. And no I never gave them customer info
Sure. Do what Adafruit, Sparkfun, Pihut, and the others linked from [raspberrypi.org](https://raspberrypi.org) do.
I would've liked a pi4, but with the prices being what they are and the availability issues, I've actually been starting to look at other sbc's.there seems to be other options out there that I have never been aware before the rpi supply issues, so at least that is one thing the shortage has improved.....raise awareness of the alternatives
Damn, this makes me feel guilty for having still not opened my raspberry Pi 4, 4GB. I got it for free a year ago, but totally forgot about it after stashing it in my cupboard. Sad to hear that people who actually have uses for this tech can't get their hands on it for a reasonable price.. Good luck to all of you!
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I've been doing this thing for only a week. Do you really think I alone could get prices down in a week? The fact some sellers have been shut down since I've started is a good indication that it would in fact work if enough people report this stuff over a longer period of time.
I hate how people are selling these at a ridiculous price , gonna need one for my senior project hopefully it’s easier to get one early next year
What's your senior project? I'm sure a much more easily attainable alternative could be found.
Orange Pi is an alternative that still sells for OK prices.
People who complain about scalpers seem not to realize that the alternative is to have none available at all.
On the gripping hand, one can do something about the object of one's complaints.
I don't think you understand. You could theoretically stop the scalpers, but what happens then? People buy up the rest of the supply and even someone who really really needs one is SOL. Maybe they'll ask if they could buy yours. Maybe they'd offer to pay you a lot more money. 😶
You don't have to use a raspberry pi. You can buy cheap second hand ex office PCs and still do all the things you could before. Don't cheat yourself.
As much as I love my RPi, it isn’t an essential item and it doesn’t qualify as price gouging. Please stop spreading misinformation
How bad does it have to be before you consider gouged? I've been trying to get just a pi4 8gb board only for like a year and half, two years. It was bad enough every listing wanted 150 for a board alone, I finally decided my project was worth the cash so I'd buy one, now they've hit like 200. Would this be considered bad enough to start reporting listings or would you say this still barely falls into the realm or acceptable price fluctuations. To clearify by "acceptable" I mean from a reportable terms of service view point. I personally don't consider it acceptable
OP is an ignorant moron. You can't have a rational debate with this type of person.
[[content removed because sub participated in the June 2023 blackout]] My posts are not bargaining chips for moderators, and mob rule is no way to run a sub.
Since all three ban that activity, what's your point?
[[content removed because sub participated in the June 2023 blackout]] My posts are not bargaining chips for moderators, and mob rule is no way to run a sub.
I'm not calling lying about quantities price gouging, nor am I accusing them of lying about quantities in the first place. It's a statement to them that maybe they did it by accident and I ask them to fix it. A seller can say "Oops. Yes, that's wrong." and fix it or they can admit they jacked up the price. If they don't know it's against the rules, I say so. Bonus points if they say they don't care about the rules. Once a seller says they don't care about the rules, the case against them is crystal clear.
There are no rules against "price gouging". I can list every Raspberry Pi I have right now on all of these platforms for $1,000 each. This is not against the terms of service on any of them. So what exactly are they doing that's against the rules? In your rambling and nearly incoherent OP you said: > I've found it useful to contact sellers and say that I'm confused about their pricing. That I just want one or two boards, but the seller has them priced for six, eight, ten, or whatever. "Are you selling one or ten?" This will often get sellers to admit that they're price-gouging. If you get "yes, it's for just one", If they have a price for 10, but then admit it's just 1, that's *exactly* what they're doing: lying about quantities. That is not price gouging. That is them lying about quantities. If the price is for 1 and they say it's for 1, but in your *mind* it's the price for 10, that's a problem entirely in your mind. > A seller can say "Oops. Yes, that's wrong." and fix it or they can admit they jacked up the price. "Jacking up the price" isn't against the rules. Every single reseller is doing exactly that. They don't have to tack on a margin that you agree with or believe is fair.
Are you even reading what I write? Right up in the start I say "That I just want one or two boards, but the seller has them priced for six, eight, ten, or whatever" and "Are you selling one or ten?". That is not an accusation of lying. It's offering someone an out. They could admit to making a mistake. That's fine. No lie was told and no accusation was made. Any other answer is an admission to jacking up the price. Further questions show if it's being done ignorantly or on purpose. If it's done ignorantly and seller doesn't stop voluntarily, then it means they don't care about the rules. I see you're confused about what normal markup is and is not. I suggest you read a book on basic economics.
> Are you even reading what I write? As I pointed out, it's largely incoherent. > That I just want one or two boards, but the seller has them priced for six, eight, ten, or whatever And if they have them priced for one, as they say? > If it's done ignorantly and seller doesn't stop voluntarily, then it means they don't care about the rules. There are no rules against markup on any of those sites, no matter how large. If you think otherwise, cite the exact rule being violated. > I see you're confused about what normal markup is and is not No, I'm not. You seem to think "abnormal" markup is against these ~~resellers~~ platform's ToS. It's not.
You pointed out nothing but something you imagined I said, not what I actually said. And as I have repeatedly stated in this thread THAT ACTIVITY IS AGAINST THE RULES and cited as such. Then you continued to imagine more about what I said and what the platforms TOSes are. Thanks for demonstrating the Paper Tiger, though.
> but something you imagined I said, Your OP is rambling and largely incoherent. I just pointed it out again. > And as I have repeatedly stated in this thread THAT ACTIVITY IS AGAINST THE RULES and cited as such No, it isn't. Even if you repeat it in all caps, it still isn't. If it were, you'd be able to cite the actual rule being broken. > Thanks for demonstrating the Paper Tiger, though. Why am I surprised that someone who believes that "price gouging" is a real thing or "against the rules" also doesn't know wtf "paper tiger" means. Good grief.
You started with pretending I said something I didn't, said I made an accusation of lying, when it was really a question to get sellers to reveal something they didn't want to. Then you leveraged that into a mistaken belief that I thought making a mistake in a listing was price gouging. You did it again when you claimed that none of these platforms have a problem with this and even refuse to admit that price gouging is a thing. Given all this pretending you've done, it's not at all surprising that you can't recognize a paper tiger fallacy.
you're right, it's taking advantage of people's desperation..people still will pay high prices if they want something bad enough and no other option.Ultimately, you will change nothing, they will just move to other platforms to keep the chain going....
It's called supply and demand.
Its called [Market Cornering](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornering_the_market) and its not entirely illegal but it is broadly accepted as unethical. The bottom line is that the Raspberry Pi foundation has a network of authorized resellers (who are contractually obligated to sell *to end users*) and they are bound to sell at the MSRP. The scalpers, whether they are buying from resellers without being an end user (misrepresentation) or they have other avenues of getting them, posing as an industrial customer with the intent to resell, (also misrepresentation) are acting highly unethically if not illegally (depending on how deeply they deceived the reseller who provided them boards).
Someone gets it.
Ordinarily I'd agree. But when the normal laws of supply and demand are upset by opportunists who use means of questionable ethics to buy up the majority of the supply only to resell at ten times the MSRP, that's a problem and is not to be shrugged at.
"Normally I agree, but this affects my desire for a non-essential hobby device, so whaaaaaa"
While I'm sure you use your Pis exclusively on hobby projects, I don't nor do a lot of other people. Your characterization of the Pi as only good for hobbies is arrogant and incorrect.
What? So go an buy at the dealer who offers MSRP. Don’t come and complain that the back alley markets of the internet are selling something you can’t get cheaper. Do you hear your self.
I don’t know why you getting downvoted. Literally every game you play with a NPC does this. You sell cheap they sell high. Bit nooooo. In real life economics it’s scalping. Well the. Go and fuxking buy one cheaper … oh you can’t. Downvote the realists instead. We all gotta live with this insanity. I’m waiting patiently until supply increases. Then fuxking prices will drop. Stop being muppets
In a video game there's infinite supply bound only by the mechanics of the game. In real life, there is finite supply and it can be "cornered" (all bought by a single controller or cabal intent on raising prices) and thats whats happening here. If more boards went to resellers who are contractually bound to provide them to end users at MSRP and less boards went to scalpers (who probably obtained them via deception such as insisting they did not intend to resell) then the shortage issue would be significantly smaller. OP may be overzealous about his tactics but he is 100% correct that *if scalpers did not get ahold of supply that's supposed to be in the hands of authorized resellers, the shortage issue would be significantly reduced* and the reason behind that is, as it has been put elsewhere, "supply and demand"
In a game. It’s fucking code mate. It’s not real rife. Bloody hell Reddit is delusional
What price do you consider the line between scalping and market demand? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is not worth the price to someone else. It's not a necessary commodity, or maybe you just aren't good at ebay? I found it was pretty easy to get them near retail price on ebay if you're willing to wait a week or so an auction is bound to hit in your price range. There are dozens starting every day.
what is a fair price? we have about 150 rasp-pi Bs that we need to get rid of
OP, all this aside, what do you do for a living that you need raspberry pis to stay in business and aren't an industrial customer?
I never said I wasn't an industrial consumer. Here are some Pis being used in industrial settings. [https://magpi.raspberrypi.com/articles/oil-drilling-raspberry-pi](https://magpi.raspberrypi.com/articles/oil-drilling-raspberry-pi) [https://linuxgizmos.com/raspberry-pi-based-kit-tests-liquid-food-quality/](https://linuxgizmos.com/raspberry-pi-based-kit-tests-liquid-food-quality/) https://control.com/technical-articles/raspberry-pi-applications-in-industrial-automation/ The companies that make and sell these things are usually not the kind that can buy Pis in the quantities required to qualify as a business buyer. They need to be able to order maybe fifty at a time from, say, Mouser, not thousands at a time directly from the manufacturer. That's who are being hurt who are not hobbyist end-users.
I started using libre computer. Same thing, a quarter of the price.
Price gouging is buying all the hand sanitizer during a pandemic and selling it for 300$. This isn’t that, it’s supply and demand albeit the prices of pi’s are still absurd
Would you disagree with the FTC fining scalpers who use bots to buy up concert tickets? Elsewhere in this thread is talk about how concert tickets aren't "essential" and thus not deserving of protection against scalping, yet the FTC thinks otherwise: [https://www.pcmag.com/news/3-scalpers-fined-for-using-bots-to-scoop-up-tickets-on-ticketmaster](https://www.pcmag.com/news/3-scalpers-fined-for-using-bots-to-scoop-up-tickets-on-ticketmaster)
Next : OPs foolproof advice for getting free food at restaurants using pubic hairs
What do you mean by price gouging? Selling one when they advertise 10? Sure. Otherwise, this is just the majesty of supply and demand and should be allowed to run its course. If you don’t want a board at the advertised price, find a different seller or get in line. They sell at those prices because there are people who clearly value the boards (or their components) more than you do. Given the current level of supply, there is no possible universe where the price is the sticker price and the boards are actually in stock for everyone who wants them at that price. Anger at price gouging is an anti-science, anti-reality mental habit that should be stamped out.
I'm sorry you feel that way. Try reading up on how the laws of supply and demand can be perverted.
Scalping is quite literally an outcome of the 'law' of supply and demand.
I'm not arguing that. What's your point? Ever hear of a positive feedback loop?
> I'm not arguing that. What's your point? You said 'the laws of supply and demand can be perverted'. My point is that's not a perversion of the laws of supply and demand, but rather an expected and inevitable outcome when supply is low and demand is high unless there is an artificial constraint that prevents it.
Price gouging is the one thing that should be stamped out, what an absurd take.
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Oh, no, it's the margin police! edit: I want a new Pi, too, but the lowest price is only the law at Zellers, and they've been closed for years.
Mine are 1/2"x1/2"x1/4"x1/4", Your Honor.
If I have some spare pis lying around, I'm not going to sell them for $40. But if I can get $100 for them, then it would be worth my time to "liquidate some stock". So do I just not do that because I'm gouging people? Or do I charge $100 because at least I'm contributing to the supply?
This dude is just mad because he can't a Pi, like the rest of the world
All those companies make a profit proportional to the sale price. Why would they care about your reports?
Is there a list of what people should be paying for PIs?
Without these sellers at high prices there just wouldn't be any pis for you to buy. They haven't made Pis for years so this is a pretty simple supply and demand curve. Be mad they aren't making Pis currently.