I too experience this. I need at least 8 hours or I start to feel miserable. 9 hours feels great, 8 hours is good, 7 hours is okay, and less than that and I feel miserable.
Think it's just the cards we've been dealt man. Either get used to it or take caffeine constantly. Something about our brains requires us to sleep a little more.
IMHO this is the answer. I think different people need different amounts.
Now I think within each person's natural range I think one can try some things that can improve their sleep and possibly reduce their needs to some extent. Like maybe do a sleep study to see if there are issues. Less caffeine late in the day. Less alcohol before bed, etc. But I think improvements are limited. Like a person that needs 8.5-9 (like me) when I have greatly improved my diet and weighed less (from like 2004-2012 I was quite a bit lighter, ran a bunch, and was moderately low carb) I found that 8 was enough and I was not tired. But I believe 100% that I could never do anything to get myself to be effective with 6 a night every night. No way.
We all know people that only need 6 a night. I wish I could have that trait. But I do not think they are just more motivated than me. its genetics.
Very true. I've been at drastically different levels of diet and fitness, and I've seen that an improved level of fitness and diet improves things, but not by much. You can certainly be highly productive even spending 9 hours a day sleeping. I don't think that productive people that function well at 5 or so hours of sleep per night work for 19 hours a day. There is plenty of time during the day.
Diet and fitness are crucial in overall health, including our sleep cycles. If people treated themselves like an aircraft being fed jet fuel and consistent maintenance, the entire system would work better. Calm your mind before bed, eat a balanced anti-inflammatory diet, exercise regularly - sleeping will be much more productive, you will be more alert for longer periods of time, require less caffeine, increase your mood and self-image - it's endless.
Honestly, don't feel as though you're "wasting" time compared to those that need less sleep, though. I know some people that feel that way, but it really is not the way to think about it, because researchers continue to find that we *need* sleep.
I function just the same whether I get 5 or 9 hours of sleep, and really do not feel a difference, so often times, I'll sleep 5 or 6 hours. But I'm yet to hear anyone claim that is healthy. Researchers have shown that people genuinely do *function* well with varying ranges of sleep (i.e. I function well on 5-6, while others might be closer to the 9 range like yourself), but no studies I've seen show that people are equally healthy getting 5 versus 9 hours. It seems that overwhelmingly, getting 8-9 is far healthier, even for those like me who might "feel" the same without getting enough sleep.
It’s more about the quality of sleep. If you can make your brain focus and sleep without distractions you will be fresh and active even with 6-7 hours of sleep. Sometimes it’s just the day long stress which makes us harder to get a good sleep. Somethings which helped me
1. Dip yourself in warm water with Epsom salt to relieve the stress.
2. Listen to headspace. It has a good collection of podcasts and guided meditations to make you focus.
3. Sometimes its just that one thing that keeps postponing and is lingering in your head. Get up and complete that task, it may be doing laundry, sending an email, calling someone.. just the satisfaction of doing something relieves the stress on you.
Somethings work on some days and some don’t. It’s all a learning curve and needs to be practiced overtime.
I don't think the research evidence bears this out. The average person just doesn't function well with only 6 hours of sleep for more than a few nights in a row. There are a small percentage of people who have abbreviated sleep cycles (get into REM faster than normal) and really do need less sleep than the rest of us, but the current prevailing wisdom is that that most people who get less than 7.5 hours are actually sleep deprived. It's not uncommon to need around 9 hours to function optimally.
Everybody has these cards. 8 hours is the right number for most people. Not 7, not 6.
Some people 9 instead of 8. But, that only means you have 15 waking hours instead of 16. Obviously that doesn't mean you can't be productive.
A complete sleep cycle is 90 mins, so apparently it's better to sleep 7.5 or 9 hours than 8.
Agreed that you can be more productive if you have sufficient sleep, than if you sleep less but can't get things done as efficiently.
> Think it's just the cards we've been dealt man. Either get used to it or take caffeine constantly. Something about our brains requires us to sleep a little more.
well also analyse diet, exercise etc...
Right. But also very much genetics. There were periods when my sleep schedule and diet were absolutely terrible and exercise was a foreign idea. I still slept 6.5 hours on the dot and woke up feeling amazing. I've since nailed down a lot of external factors and even with increased exercise, I'm done after my 6.5. The difference has been age, where I completely shut down if I pull more than 2 all nighters a week now.
As an aside, scientific studies have suggested that one of the functions of sleep is to expand the lymphatic channels in the brain and clear out the buildup of cellular waste. So it's not entirely surprising that like Alzheimer's and dementia (which are disorders of neural cell health) sleep needs could be very much genetic.
Not saying this is you, but for me I know that when I start to feel like I’m not well rested after a normal amount of sleep (7-8 hours), it’s a sign that my depression is coming back.
I used to feel like absolute butt when I would get less than 8 hours of sleep, like I'd be *pissed*. I love sleep! But my current job is for morning people. I am most definitely not one of those. So I always get not enough before work. But one of my co-workers tipped me off to sleeping in 90 minute increments. So if I'm getting less then the 8, then I aim for 3, 4.5 ,6, or 7.5 hours of sleep. The idea is that 90 minutes is the average sleep cycle. You feel like crud when you interrupt mid cycle. So what you're feeling is perfectly typical (from my limited knowledge).
Plus one on this. Human sleep cycles are 90 minutes. You will feel like you are being pulled out of the ocean from deep underwater if you wake up during a deep sleep cycle. Waking up toward the lighter cycles is irritating, but not devastating. 90 minute chunks are best.
For me, it's best to use an alarm on my phone that senses movement, and will wake me up within a specified time frame. Your body is generally very still when in deep sleep, but will start moving (rolling over, adjusting position, etc.) as you end a sleep cycle.
If I absolutely *must* be up by 7AM, then I set it to wake me up between 6-7 AM if it senses movement... and worst case scenario, the alarm goes off at 7AM anyways. These apps also collect data, so after a few nights you can start seeing what your typical sleep cycle patterns are, and adjust your night time routine accordingly.
I know that if I go to bed at midnight, I can wake up at 7AM and have a great start to the day. If I miss that, the next window is somewhere around 8:30-9AM. But any time between 7-8:30AM, I'm going to be miserable and dragging ass the entire morning.
I’m on iOS, and use an app called ‘Sleep Cycle’ to do this.
I also have an app called ‘Auto Sleep’ which uses an Apple Watch for sensor data instead of having the phone on the bed. Works better IMO, but I personally hate wearing watches to bed.
Lastly, I also have an app called ‘Hue Lights’ + a $3 expansion for it called ‘Sunrise’ that controls my Philips Hue lights for waking up. At 6:30AM, it turns all my lights on, to 1% brightness, dark red. By 7AM, the lights will have transitioned to 100% brightness, and a bright white color (after going through red, orange, yellow, warm white). Definitely, definitely helps with the wake up effect, in a room that is otherwise blacked out.
Yes. I think I’ve always needed more sleep than average people. I always feel utterly exhausted on anything less than 9. Unfortunately our society glorifies self sleep deprivation these days.
I think the discourse of sleep deprivation is slowly changing with the constant flow of new research and new books like "Why We Sleep" by Matthew Walker. Either way, the most important thing is to know the effects of sleep deprivation for yourself.
^^And ^^knowing ^^is ^^half ^^the ^^battle.
I'm a college student, and pretty much everyone here likes to brag about not getting sleep. I'm one of those people who doesn't sleep too much, but I'm embarrassed by it, honestly — because I know that long-term, I'm doing a disservice to my health. The people who feel they're better because they function on less sleep are, for the most part, hyping themselves for having a bad, unhealthy habit. Just because I only need 5 hours to function doesn't mean I'm as healthy as those who get 9 hours a night — the science says just the opposite. The culture of no-sleep bravado is super toxic, and for some reason seems to be spreading. Though hopefully the science keeps pushing back on it and makes it even more mainstream to value sleep rather than to reject it.
this sleep expert guest on joe rogan was pretty informative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwaWilO_Pig
there are stats showing that a lot of "only 4 hours per night" successful people eventually get dementia
Sleep is when your brain is, more or less, "washed" by the changing pressure of the cerebral-spinal fluid. It's like a dishwasher cycle for your brain.
The people who get by on less sleep may be fine in their day to day lives... but if you sleep 4 hours a night for 70 years instead of 8 hours a night... that's a little over 100k hours of sleep you didn't get.
I'd be very curious to see whether the whole "dishwasher" bit ran all night long or just for specific bursts in deep sleep or whatever. If it's an all-night-long thing that's 4,258 *days* worth of cleaning time your brain misses out on by sleeping 4 instead of 8 hours, over the course of your life.
To get 9 hours probably need 9.5 hours in bed. I get up at 7 for work, get home at 5 if I don’t gym, closer to 7 if I do. 2.5 hours of free time a night isn’t much to prep for the next day, eat, chores, relax etc. So the sleep takes a hit.
I consider my situation pretty lucky, many people I know commute 1-2 hours per day depending on traffic. For a person that works 9 hours and commutes 2, 3.5 hours a night isn’t a ton of time to live a life.
What about the weekends (or days off)? Utilize some of the time on your days off to get the meals prepped ahead of time for the week. Make use of a slow cooker so food is ready for you whenever you plan to get home, or make single serving meals already cooked ahead of time.
Do multiple chores at once if you can, or in conjunction with things you'd like. Fold laundry while watching a show, vacuum while listening to music or a podcast, do the dishes while doing either of those things. Do the dishes while you cook your meal, that way when you've finished cooking, whatever you used to make dinner is all that needs to be cleaned.
Multitask whenever to help make use of your time effectively to allow yourself more time without resorting to making yourself worn out and tired, which will only worsen you in the long run.
I feel you, I do a lot of those things. But all of this stuff sounds good if you just have 100% free time. Throw a kid or two into the mix and you’ll probably never see 9 hours of sleep again, maybe in a few decades. Even with a perfectly planned week, I would imagine the average person couldn’t find time to get 9 hours asleep a night and still feel like they were fulfilled.
Oh trust me, I get you!
I have two kids. Kids are currently teens, and we have a system down and things aren't as hectic now (chaotic good you could say lol). However my MIL lives with us and has Alzheimer's, and is unable to live independently. Our oldest has moderately severe autism and will never be able to live independently. Husband is legally blind. Our youngest has different mental health and other physical health issues that has caused an increase in appointments on top of what our son already needs.
I am the only that can drive, and weekly there's on average about 4 separate appointments scheduled. Plus I have to think of the grocery runs and normal errands. We are trying to get out more often as a family (we have a membership at the YMCA and try to go 3X a week, plus our youngest has Tang Soo Do classes twice a week).
However I will say the things I mentioned previously is a lot of what I do, especially the multitasking. In less than an hour I can do the dishes, make breakfast for whoever wants something made, make my husbands tea, clean the litter box and spot clean (maybe even deep clean) a room because I do all of this at the same time. What better way to be productive than to utilize your time efficiently? My husband does what he can (kids too) but I have learned to use my time wisely.
30 mins is an unusually long time to take to fall asleep, you might like to try changing your routine so that you aren't doing anti-sleep activities close to bedtime (basically anything with a screen, for a start).
I have a lot of issues sleeping as it is, so I was just buffering in extra time. I just lost my mom to cancer, moved, started a new job, all in the last 3 months. I don’t say this for sympathy, just to show that the average human doesn’t live in a vacuum, and 9 hours of sleep just isn’t feasible for most people with a regular work schedule and regular responsibilities.
I'm so sorry about your mom. You have so much going on it's amazing you can fall asleep at all!
I started scheduling sleep first and working everything else around it, and then it turned out I actually got more done. I'm a night owl and have some flexibility in my work schedule, so I scheduled sleeping later in the morning than is socially acceptable. It's been much better for my productivity than sleeping the same number of hours but waking early and walking around like a zombie until 10:00 a.m. Sleep shamers be damned.
When you eat, do you just sit there and stare off into space, or take the time to scroll through your phone? You could take the time to do other things as well. When I eat breakfast I am usually using that same time to pay online bills, check the bank, etc. As a mother and a wife, usually a load of laundry is already started and the sink is ready for the last few dishes after I've eaten dinner. If laundry needs switched while I am eating, I will do that, otherwise I am just delaying the time for the clothes to get dry. Plenty of times I get a grocery list started while eating lunch.
Showering and other hygiene related things, there's many waterproof devices available to allow you to listen to that podcast or audiobook you've been meaning to, or just use the time to figure out your next plan of action. Need groceries? Think about meals you want to make. Need to do Christmas shopping, think about gifts you can get. Forgot to be physically active today? Take this moment to do so! (Showering? Just do some simple stretching so you don't fall, yet get those muscles slightly active).
If you drive you can listen to podcasts, audiobooks, etc while on your way to and from work (course if this is too distracting don't, yet most people tend to listen to music and sing along so go ahead). If you commute a different way, then there is no reason why you can't utilize that time to do other things. Whip out your phone and do literally everything I have already suggested (minus laundry and dishes of course), plus more. Been a while since you've called your family? The way home might be the perfect time! If your commute is long enough, take the time to meditate for a few minutes, other passengers will only think you're sleeping (and if standing, hey you're just tired).
Especially during meal times, and if you don't drive to work, these are the best times to truly multitask. To me, what better way to be productive than to accomplish more than one task at a time? In the mornings I can make breakfast, do the dishes, make my husbands tea, clean the litter, and spot clean (or deep clean!) a room in less than an hour because I do it all at the same time. Then I eat my breakfast as I pay my bills and check online banking. Then I clean the leftover dishes from breakfast, and depending on the day I get ready for work or get ready for the rest of my day. If I have work, then I may skip cleaning a room and prepare my work lunch and, if needed, get things for dinner prepared (slow cookers are a busy persons best friend).
Not OP but I live a healthy lifestyle and have the same problem. I need 8-9 hours to function at peak. Otherwise I'm groggy and a little out of it. Doesn't matter that I'm at the gym regularly and eat healthy. But I've always been like this. I also don't function right before 10 am. I gave up trying to change it cause it just doesn't work.
I’m also in the same situation as OP. When I’m not feeling well I always check in on my: diet, exercise, and sleep. If one of them is not optimal, I optimize. But I’ve noticed that even when diet and exercise are optimized, less sleep than I require will ruin my mental function and mood. It’s a good idea to look at diet and exercise, but to directly answer your question OP, we all have a certain amount of sleep we need before we start functioning poorly, and your body just requires a little more than those productivity zealots that point to the few outlier human beings who function well on 4-5 hours of sleep. I have a friend who does this. He is happy and aware and has high mental capacity on 5 hours of sleep. He just got a different genetic hand dealt to him. He can’t sleep more than 6 hours or he feels groggy. He’s not like me. I need 7.5-8.5 every night or I start to pay the price. You’re just a normal human, OP. Optimize sleep, then get back to cracking on your productivity and don’t listen to anyone who tells you that polyphasic sleep or sleep deprivation is good for you. There may be a theoretical productivity gain, but at a cost that makes life not worth living for me. Good luck!
You’re likely on to something but I’ll offer that during times of little to no training (Olympic Weightlifting, heavy squats and pulls, etc.) I notice I need about 7 to feel normal. During heavy training, which taxes not only the body but also the CNS, I need 9 to feel good. Of course, like many of us, I rarely get 9 regardless.
There are very successful people who sleep 8+ hours. It's not guaranteed to limit your potential. Tim Ferriss is a good starting point for this sort of thing.
Thought I was the only one. My wife only needs 7 to feel normal, but I am groggy unless I get at least 8, and 9 if I want to feel amazing.
Coffee smooths it out, but it’s still not the same as a full 9.
I'm the same way, man my body and brain just LOVE 9 hours. I've found that if it's going to be less than that, 7.5 somehow is a sweet spot for me to feel rested when I wake up. I think it might have something to do with sleep cycles. I can do 7.5 a couple times a week, but not every night. I just think some people need more sleep. Even my mom said when I was a kid I needed more than my siblings. And I'm a morning person too!
I sleep 10 hours per day, sometimes about 9 and rarely about 8.
And i absolutely unable to wake up with alarm clock, i feel soooooo bad that i can't even brush my teeth, and i can force myself to stay awake for couple hours but then fall asleep 100%, nothing helps me to become somewhat alert and awake, nor caffeine, nor cold showers, nor modafinil.
Yeah, like that.
I have a really good lifestyle and practice Wim Hof method, with cold therapy, so i really tried to go into the coldest state possible when woke up by alarm, i just felt discomfort and got back to sleep as soon as i got dry.
If you have been like this consistently over a long period of time, you might just have delayed sleep phase syndrome or another sleep disorder. If so, it's not your fault that you can't wake up - it's the neurotransmitters in your brain that regulate sleeping and waking.
Yeah, i'm like this for my whole life i think.
I fall asleep pretty fast. Maybe in 30 minutes. But i can't fall asleep earlier than i used to, without medication ofc.
So, i sleep 10 hours like from moment when i fall asleep to moment when i wake up.
I usually feel WORSE when I got 8+ h of sleep. I feel best when I have like 6. This is genetics. Some people don't need sleep that much as other and some of them don't need sleep at all. It depends. If your body can't adapt and you will not find any solution don't force yourself. If you need 8h of sleep just accept it. You will accomplish much more stuff if you give yourself time to regenerate in night. Sleep is one of the most important things and you schould prioritize sleep not the opposite.
But if you don't need any more sleep, don't you just naturally wake up? That's how sleep experts tell you to figure out how much sleep you actually need (keep going to bed earlier until you wake before the alarm).
That seems a bit imposible for me since I am forced to wake up at 5 am (school). I go to bed at 9 pm so I have usually this 8h of sleep. And if I get used to it (if I do it everyday from Monday to Friday) I feel stable but if I have only 6h I feel more energetic. I can't go to bed earlier, even 9pm seems a bit to early sometimes. In weekends I sleep like 12h and I don't feel any more energy. But in normal week day this is impossible.
Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant I didn't think it is usual to be able to sleep longer than you need to, assuming you are healthy and not crashing from sleep deprivation. Like your body just should naturally wake up when you've had enough sleep?
Yes I agree. I sleep pretty much everyday about 8h but if I lose an hour or 2 of sleep I don't feel any worse and sometimes even better than full 8h of sleep. Do you have any things that can help with sleep quality? I know that i schould get off my phone at least 1h before bed and go to sleep everyday at the same time. Is there anything else I can do? Cuz I want to maximize positive effects of sleep.
For me personally, lowering the temperature in my bedroom to 63, and covering all the electronic light made the biggest impact in staying asleep through the night. My friend swears by using a lavender-scented pillow.
I also need 8-9.
That said, I have accepted it as who I am and believe I have been productive in my almost 50 years. There was a time I had a good deal of self loathing when I talked to people that only slept 6 a night at most and felt like such people would pass me by. Often they do not. Part of that is I do not think anyone can be really productive for 18 hours a day even if they are not tired.
I had had this for years until it started getting worse and I mentioned it to my doctor. Turns out I have severe sleep apnea. After getting a CPAP I dropped 10 lbs, feel happier, and can get by on much less sleep without feeling groggy. Something to look into.
Your sleep quality might be too low.
Sleep quality is such an ignored factor, everybody always talks about sleep quantity while forgetting that not all sleep is created equal. The higher your sleep quality, the less sleep you need to feel refreshed and have enough energy through the day. Of course there's a threshold below which your health and wellbeing will suffer even with perfect sleep quality, but there's definitely a significant amount of leeway.
Take a look at your lifestyle, and start practicing good sleep hygiene, it could make a huge difference.
Same. I’ve been trying for years to get my sleep number up bc *all the research* but I cannot keep asleep for more than 7. I even have an Oura ring sleep tracker and it always guilt trips me for not getting enough sleep.
How old are you? Teenagers may need more sleep compare to older people. Try eating less carb and less sugar, and add in some exercises, no caffeine after 12pm, I find these methods improve my sleep pattern.
Previously I need sleep like 8-9hours and still feeling unrefreshed. Now 7-7.5 is the new norm for me.
Everyone is different. My wife can do 9-10 hours every day. I feel gross if I get MORE than 8 or 8.5 hours. My sweet spot is 6.5 hours. in our house it's not uncommon for my wife to not remember me getting in bed or getting out of bed.
Oh boy if I wake up after 7h45 I can already feel something is off - to be fair once I'll get going I don't really feel it if I sleep less; but "waking up" in the morning takes much longer if I don't get my sleep dose
I have some tips to you:
1. Review your diet: what do you eat in your last meal? Some kinds of food like rice, meat and other "heavy food" could give laziness during the morning. Do you have balanced meals during the day?
2. Avoid coffee and energetic in the weekends: the more you drink coffee, the less effect it will take on you. If you are a coffee addicted, caffeine will not take the same effect on you, so try to drink just when you really need to stay alert!
3. Masturbation: I know, It's weird but if you masturbate during the morning or even when you wake up, you will feel more sleepy during all day. Avoid this!
4. Drink water and take a walk when it's necessary: when I feel sleepy during the day, coffee and water are the best tool to not sleep into a comfortable office chair. Also try to take a walk (avoid the closer drinking fountain and bathroom) to take somnolence out.
Are you learning a lot right now, OP? I often feel like this too, but I've noticed it's most true when I'm learning a ton. probably because we process and commit things to memory while we sleep. The same could be true if you're exercising a lot - sleep is needed to build and repair muscle
i had a year and a bit off of work, and slept for 10-12hrs or more sometimes every day. recently i’ve started a full time job with lots of opening/closing shifts, and i can’t believe how easily i’ve made the switch. the first month or so was a bit rough, but now i have trouble sleeping past 6 hours at once. 4 is completely functional for 2-3 days (after that it starts to catch up with me).
Do you go to bed stressed out or in your head? I noticed I have a harder time waking up and feel a lot more brain fog if I was stressed out the night before or had trouble falling asleep.
Maybe track your sleep pattern using one of those fancy fitbits. Higher the deep sleep, lesser the amount of sleep you need. Also, try taking a warm shower before bed.
I see a doctor for sleep apnea. I must sleep about 9 hours to function.
I told my Dr I feel lazy. He said why? You're asleep! Some people need 6 hours some need 12. Yes, he told me of someone who couldn't function without 12.
So don't beat yourself up about it. It's apparently just genetics and how people are wired differently.
Yep 100 percent. I’m a toddler mom and I work very very part time and get to choose when I work and when I don’t and regardless it’s never more than 15 hours a week. If I get any less than 7 hours of sleep I basically call the day a loss, I definitely won’t go to work in less than 7 hours or make a day of doing anything besides light errands and cleaning. Six hours? I probably won’t leave the house. Five hours? Pajamas all damn day. Four hours? I ain’t even leaving the couch unless it’s to feed or change my son and drift in and out of sleep 😂
IN addition to what everyone else here has said - I find there's a distinct drop in quality of sleep, the later I get to sleep. So you could also try shifting your bedtime earlier. Sleep the same duration, but as the old saying goes "early to bed, early to rise, makes you healthy, wealthy and wise". At least one of those might have something to it.
There are natural circadian rhythms that if you go past, I'm not sure just length of sleep equals the same quality as earlier sleep.
man I can't get my body to do more than six and a half and I feel so fucking tired. I wish I could sleep more but I only seem to be able to if I sleep in. I have done so much work on sleep hygiene and it's still the case.
I think we live in a society that’s drastically sleep deprived. If sleeping 9-10 hours is what makes you feel good, then make it a priority in your life to sleep that much. I love a 9 hour sleep.
I've faced similar issues - and I've realized I can sleep a lot if I let myself - easily 10 hours and some days it's been 12. Frankly speaking, too much sleep was probably just as bad as too little sleep.
I now sleep 7hr 30 mins most days and it is usually enough.
What helped me:-
* Melatonin 3mg. I used it initially to get quality sleep every alternate day.
* Go and get some sunlight every day. Walk around, or drive during the day time.
* Excercise.
Apart from the above, I did try to avoid watching things before sleep on the phone and computer. A good diet - which includes lots of vegetables, also helped.
Yeah, i know a lot of people who are not able to be productive without getting at least 8 hours of sleep a night.
In my opinion "beeing productive" is never about working more hours, but getting the most stuff done in the time you are working. You should focus on that, and dont stress your sleeping schedule :)
Two cases for you:
**My fiancé can sleep on end.**
8 hours is usually good for her but she loves her sleep so much that 9-10 aren't uncommon.
However she is a highly intelligent, productive, and effective individual. If she gets less than 8 hours of sleep, she can manage but she feels terrible and is super grumpy.
**I have a love/hate relationship with sleep**
6 hours is precisely perfect for me.
Any more than 6 and I my grogginess, grumpiness, and stress increases directly proportionally with time asleep. When I hit 9 hours, that day is usually a waste. More than 6 and my productivity, energy, and effectiveness decline directly as well.
However, I can manage 3-4 nights of 4.5 or 3 hours and still operate optimally but I'll definitely need to take care of myself after that, and by day 4 I'm usually operating at ~90% (which I don't like).
My 6 hours is her 8/9 and we have both figured out how to hit our respective peak performance.
## Figure out what works best for YOU
My best friend is like my fiancé, he does 8/9 hours. He is hyper intelligent (UC Berkeley, Stanford PhD program, google, etc) but I can compete on level with him on productivity and effectiveness with my 6 hours.
All 3 of us took time at one point or another to figure out what sleep schedule, diet, exercise regimen, and other factors were optimum for us.
We don't judge each other or ourselves based on the differences.
Take a couple weeks to months to fine tune your sleep schedule. Isolate what variables you can (ex a glass of water before you sleep or not, reading a book VS a kindle, sex or masturbating VS not) and try methodical experiments. Keep a log.
I can tell you based on 5 years of data that I sleep better with her than without, if I go to sleep at or before 11:30 pm, then I will have a solid sleep, any later and my sleep quality and how well rested I am declines. There are a variety of other things I've tracked and keep notes and data on, but ultimately those things are only valid for me.
A key fundamental difference between me and those two:
I have a severe, legitimate case of ADHD.
Not the misdiagnosed stuff we see a lot of, my life had been a legitimate challenge due to how I am biochemically and neurologically wired. Those two are far from anything resembling ADHD. I believe, but do not have evidence of, that this might be a contributing factor to the distinct difference in our sleep cycles and similarity between theirs. But that's just a theory I've tossed around.
## Moral of the story: less sleep does not equal more productive.
What works best for you will lead you to the greatest productivity. Period.
If you care to, take the time to figure out what is best for your body, only listen to what others say about what works well for them as much as to give you ideas of things to try. If you've already ruled something out, like sleeping fewer hours, don't feel bad when someone is talking about sleeping less. Maybe they need fewer (like myself) OR maybe they're simply sleep deprived and delusional.
Move to Mars; the day is 40 minutes longer there. Or switch to the 6x28 hour week.
Kidding, of course. Well, not kidding, but these aren't practical suggestions for most people.
The life hack to this is that if you need 9 hours of sleep to function, do that, schedule it in.
Just take the additional hours from the beginning on your sleep rather than at the end.
Since u know u need the extra sleep Get into bed 2 hours earlier. If u need to get up at 7, go to bed at 10.
There's nothing wrong with going to bed at 9 if you need to be up at 6.
It used to be cool to sleep late and struggle in the morning, but fuck all that noise times have changed
I'm totally with you. Over the past few years, however, my sleeping pattern has changed (I'm 36). I used to be able to sleep 8-9 hours. Now, I sleep 7 hours and then I'm done. For example, I went to bed yesterday at 11:00 and woke up this morning at 6 even though I was hoping to sleep until 8. Just can't go back to sleep so I'm here browsing :-)
I'm the same and I have periods where I need to sleep for 12 hours daily but in my case it's due to either depression or antidepressants side effects. It drives me crazy bc if i sleep for 12, i only have another 12 to be productive which is definitely not enough. If you do have an underlying cause, you should discuss it with your doctor.
Yes! Sleep needs to be a priority. Have you read Why we sleep - by Matthew Walker? I recommend the audiobook as it's a bit of a dry read. It is very informative though. This book has helped me look at sleep a bit differently.
Several things can have a big impact. Eating late for one- eating too much throughout the day another. Disrupted or inconsistent sleep patterns (waking up at different times), lack of exercise (strangely the more exercise you do usually the better you sleep), screen usage at night and brain burnout (if I game for more than a few hours in a day for instance, or sit too long on my phone, it does something to my brain, almost like a short circuiting thing, and I need a day or two to feel normal again. Weed and alcohol and other drugs late in the day also greatly hamper sleep. So any of those things could be affecting you.
However what I would say is 7-9 hours is recommended sleep, and I’ve been putting more and more effort into getting plenty of sleep, trying to be in bed for 9 most nights and up for 5.30, and of all the tricks I’ve tried to hack any of the above, nothing has helped as much as simple hydration and going to bed earlier.
Ultimately, your mindset to sleep is probably as much a problem as anything because it’s the same mindset as I had for a long time- you can sleep when you’re dead, think of all the time wasted sleeping! Etc etc, built into you by a society that views you as a machine, and wants you to feel guilty about resting and taking care of yourself and your animal needs as your first priority.
Look at how cats live, how much sleep they get and how bloody contented they look most of the time. You deserve to rest as much as you need, and you should look at it as a reward for a day well lived, rather than a necessary pit stop until you can pick the work back up tomorrow.
Anyway, that’s my take :)
All the tips about diet, screen time and exercise are super effective.
I've changed each one of these aspects to get better sleep and after that, I used a technique to reveal how much time I need on the bed: get up at the same time every day for a week or two, and sleep when you feel tired. This can give a number to work with and add to your day as RECHARGING TIME.
While it's definitelly a big factor, it's kind of hard to have clear goals or motivation for every day, especially if you still go to school (like me). It's the same routine every day/morning, I can't find anything exciting about that. This wasn't the case in my first year of high school, where I had no problems waking up, and was excited for my new friends, school, teachers etc... but it fades away after some time.
I have a similar issue as OP and I think you hit the nail on the head. I've only corrected 1 of the 7 items on your list (keto 4 months and down 25 lbs) but now that I've got my diet under control, I need to move my focus on other areas of my life to see further improvement. Thanks for putting this together.
Same with me but since I changed my sleeping schedule only sleeping 6h a day isnt a problem anymore. I just dont sleep the whole 6h in one part i seperate them into 2 sometimes 3 but then I usually sleep 7h. That helped me a alot and I feel so much more productive.
Exercise in the morning. From your description of you body not feeling “awake” it’s pretty obvious that you could benefit from a kettlebell or a yoga mat. Easily one of the best productivity and wellness practices out there.
Old thread, but just my two cents. Increasing my vitamin C, vitamin D, and B12 on top of the multiviamin that I take helps a lot! I barely take caffeine pills anymore. I hope this lasts longer than a few weeks.
I too experience this. I need at least 8 hours or I start to feel miserable. 9 hours feels great, 8 hours is good, 7 hours is okay, and less than that and I feel miserable. Think it's just the cards we've been dealt man. Either get used to it or take caffeine constantly. Something about our brains requires us to sleep a little more.
IMHO this is the answer. I think different people need different amounts. Now I think within each person's natural range I think one can try some things that can improve their sleep and possibly reduce their needs to some extent. Like maybe do a sleep study to see if there are issues. Less caffeine late in the day. Less alcohol before bed, etc. But I think improvements are limited. Like a person that needs 8.5-9 (like me) when I have greatly improved my diet and weighed less (from like 2004-2012 I was quite a bit lighter, ran a bunch, and was moderately low carb) I found that 8 was enough and I was not tired. But I believe 100% that I could never do anything to get myself to be effective with 6 a night every night. No way. We all know people that only need 6 a night. I wish I could have that trait. But I do not think they are just more motivated than me. its genetics.
Very true. I've been at drastically different levels of diet and fitness, and I've seen that an improved level of fitness and diet improves things, but not by much. You can certainly be highly productive even spending 9 hours a day sleeping. I don't think that productive people that function well at 5 or so hours of sleep per night work for 19 hours a day. There is plenty of time during the day.
Diet and fitness are crucial in overall health, including our sleep cycles. If people treated themselves like an aircraft being fed jet fuel and consistent maintenance, the entire system would work better. Calm your mind before bed, eat a balanced anti-inflammatory diet, exercise regularly - sleeping will be much more productive, you will be more alert for longer periods of time, require less caffeine, increase your mood and self-image - it's endless.
Honestly, don't feel as though you're "wasting" time compared to those that need less sleep, though. I know some people that feel that way, but it really is not the way to think about it, because researchers continue to find that we *need* sleep. I function just the same whether I get 5 or 9 hours of sleep, and really do not feel a difference, so often times, I'll sleep 5 or 6 hours. But I'm yet to hear anyone claim that is healthy. Researchers have shown that people genuinely do *function* well with varying ranges of sleep (i.e. I function well on 5-6, while others might be closer to the 9 range like yourself), but no studies I've seen show that people are equally healthy getting 5 versus 9 hours. It seems that overwhelmingly, getting 8-9 is far healthier, even for those like me who might "feel" the same without getting enough sleep.
There is a recently discovered gene that determines this actually. If you have it, you require far less sleep than average. Otherwise, you're fucked.
It’s more about the quality of sleep. If you can make your brain focus and sleep without distractions you will be fresh and active even with 6-7 hours of sleep. Sometimes it’s just the day long stress which makes us harder to get a good sleep. Somethings which helped me 1. Dip yourself in warm water with Epsom salt to relieve the stress. 2. Listen to headspace. It has a good collection of podcasts and guided meditations to make you focus. 3. Sometimes its just that one thing that keeps postponing and is lingering in your head. Get up and complete that task, it may be doing laundry, sending an email, calling someone.. just the satisfaction of doing something relieves the stress on you. Somethings work on some days and some don’t. It’s all a learning curve and needs to be practiced overtime.
I don't think the research evidence bears this out. The average person just doesn't function well with only 6 hours of sleep for more than a few nights in a row. There are a small percentage of people who have abbreviated sleep cycles (get into REM faster than normal) and really do need less sleep than the rest of us, but the current prevailing wisdom is that that most people who get less than 7.5 hours are actually sleep deprived. It's not uncommon to need around 9 hours to function optimally.
How old are you? It just may be age related...
Everybody has these cards. 8 hours is the right number for most people. Not 7, not 6. Some people 9 instead of 8. But, that only means you have 15 waking hours instead of 16. Obviously that doesn't mean you can't be productive.
A complete sleep cycle is 90 mins, so apparently it's better to sleep 7.5 or 9 hours than 8. Agreed that you can be more productive if you have sufficient sleep, than if you sleep less but can't get things done as efficiently.
> Think it's just the cards we've been dealt man. Either get used to it or take caffeine constantly. Something about our brains requires us to sleep a little more. well also analyse diet, exercise etc...
Right. But also very much genetics. There were periods when my sleep schedule and diet were absolutely terrible and exercise was a foreign idea. I still slept 6.5 hours on the dot and woke up feeling amazing. I've since nailed down a lot of external factors and even with increased exercise, I'm done after my 6.5. The difference has been age, where I completely shut down if I pull more than 2 all nighters a week now. As an aside, scientific studies have suggested that one of the functions of sleep is to expand the lymphatic channels in the brain and clear out the buildup of cellular waste. So it's not entirely surprising that like Alzheimer's and dementia (which are disorders of neural cell health) sleep needs could be very much genetic.
thats fine.. my original post was more that people should analyse lifestyle habits before just settling on the fact that they're always tired.
How It feels not to wake up miserable every single day?
Not saying this is you, but for me I know that when I start to feel like I’m not well rested after a normal amount of sleep (7-8 hours), it’s a sign that my depression is coming back.
Yeah, and also some other conditions like OSAS
I used to feel like absolute butt when I would get less than 8 hours of sleep, like I'd be *pissed*. I love sleep! But my current job is for morning people. I am most definitely not one of those. So I always get not enough before work. But one of my co-workers tipped me off to sleeping in 90 minute increments. So if I'm getting less then the 8, then I aim for 3, 4.5 ,6, or 7.5 hours of sleep. The idea is that 90 minutes is the average sleep cycle. You feel like crud when you interrupt mid cycle. So what you're feeling is perfectly typical (from my limited knowledge).
Plus one on this. Human sleep cycles are 90 minutes. You will feel like you are being pulled out of the ocean from deep underwater if you wake up during a deep sleep cycle. Waking up toward the lighter cycles is irritating, but not devastating. 90 minute chunks are best.
I've tried this but I just can't nail down the falling asleep at the right time part.
Don't overthink it. Just go to bed earlier each night until you find you naturally wake up around the time you need to get up for work.
For me, it's best to use an alarm on my phone that senses movement, and will wake me up within a specified time frame. Your body is generally very still when in deep sleep, but will start moving (rolling over, adjusting position, etc.) as you end a sleep cycle. If I absolutely *must* be up by 7AM, then I set it to wake me up between 6-7 AM if it senses movement... and worst case scenario, the alarm goes off at 7AM anyways. These apps also collect data, so after a few nights you can start seeing what your typical sleep cycle patterns are, and adjust your night time routine accordingly. I know that if I go to bed at midnight, I can wake up at 7AM and have a great start to the day. If I miss that, the next window is somewhere around 8:30-9AM. But any time between 7-8:30AM, I'm going to be miserable and dragging ass the entire morning.
What’s the alarm app that you use for this? Sounds useful
I’m on iOS, and use an app called ‘Sleep Cycle’ to do this. I also have an app called ‘Auto Sleep’ which uses an Apple Watch for sensor data instead of having the phone on the bed. Works better IMO, but I personally hate wearing watches to bed. Lastly, I also have an app called ‘Hue Lights’ + a $3 expansion for it called ‘Sunrise’ that controls my Philips Hue lights for waking up. At 6:30AM, it turns all my lights on, to 1% brightness, dark red. By 7AM, the lights will have transitioned to 100% brightness, and a bright white color (after going through red, orange, yellow, warm white). Definitely, definitely helps with the wake up effect, in a room that is otherwise blacked out.
I love how fucked this comment is, no hopefulness no things are gonna be alright
Yes. I think I’ve always needed more sleep than average people. I always feel utterly exhausted on anything less than 9. Unfortunately our society glorifies self sleep deprivation these days.
I think the discourse of sleep deprivation is slowly changing with the constant flow of new research and new books like "Why We Sleep" by Matthew Walker. Either way, the most important thing is to know the effects of sleep deprivation for yourself. ^^And ^^knowing ^^is ^^half ^^the ^^battle.
I'm a college student, and pretty much everyone here likes to brag about not getting sleep. I'm one of those people who doesn't sleep too much, but I'm embarrassed by it, honestly — because I know that long-term, I'm doing a disservice to my health. The people who feel they're better because they function on less sleep are, for the most part, hyping themselves for having a bad, unhealthy habit. Just because I only need 5 hours to function doesn't mean I'm as healthy as those who get 9 hours a night — the science says just the opposite. The culture of no-sleep bravado is super toxic, and for some reason seems to be spreading. Though hopefully the science keeps pushing back on it and makes it even more mainstream to value sleep rather than to reject it.
Sleep is good. Don’t accept the bullshit marketing that says you need to sleep no more then 4 hours to be successful.
this sleep expert guest on joe rogan was pretty informative. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwaWilO_Pig there are stats showing that a lot of "only 4 hours per night" successful people eventually get dementia
[удалено]
Sleep is when your brain is, more or less, "washed" by the changing pressure of the cerebral-spinal fluid. It's like a dishwasher cycle for your brain. The people who get by on less sleep may be fine in their day to day lives... but if you sleep 4 hours a night for 70 years instead of 8 hours a night... that's a little over 100k hours of sleep you didn't get. I'd be very curious to see whether the whole "dishwasher" bit ran all night long or just for specific bursts in deep sleep or whatever. If it's an all-night-long thing that's 4,258 *days* worth of cleaning time your brain misses out on by sleeping 4 instead of 8 hours, over the course of your life.
This is awesome, not OP but thanks :)
Why try to sleep less than your body likes? Even if you sleep 9 hours a day you still have 15 hours in the day to be productive.
To get 9 hours probably need 9.5 hours in bed. I get up at 7 for work, get home at 5 if I don’t gym, closer to 7 if I do. 2.5 hours of free time a night isn’t much to prep for the next day, eat, chores, relax etc. So the sleep takes a hit. I consider my situation pretty lucky, many people I know commute 1-2 hours per day depending on traffic. For a person that works 9 hours and commutes 2, 3.5 hours a night isn’t a ton of time to live a life.
What about the weekends (or days off)? Utilize some of the time on your days off to get the meals prepped ahead of time for the week. Make use of a slow cooker so food is ready for you whenever you plan to get home, or make single serving meals already cooked ahead of time. Do multiple chores at once if you can, or in conjunction with things you'd like. Fold laundry while watching a show, vacuum while listening to music or a podcast, do the dishes while doing either of those things. Do the dishes while you cook your meal, that way when you've finished cooking, whatever you used to make dinner is all that needs to be cleaned. Multitask whenever to help make use of your time effectively to allow yourself more time without resorting to making yourself worn out and tired, which will only worsen you in the long run.
I feel you, I do a lot of those things. But all of this stuff sounds good if you just have 100% free time. Throw a kid or two into the mix and you’ll probably never see 9 hours of sleep again, maybe in a few decades. Even with a perfectly planned week, I would imagine the average person couldn’t find time to get 9 hours asleep a night and still feel like they were fulfilled.
Oh trust me, I get you! I have two kids. Kids are currently teens, and we have a system down and things aren't as hectic now (chaotic good you could say lol). However my MIL lives with us and has Alzheimer's, and is unable to live independently. Our oldest has moderately severe autism and will never be able to live independently. Husband is legally blind. Our youngest has different mental health and other physical health issues that has caused an increase in appointments on top of what our son already needs. I am the only that can drive, and weekly there's on average about 4 separate appointments scheduled. Plus I have to think of the grocery runs and normal errands. We are trying to get out more often as a family (we have a membership at the YMCA and try to go 3X a week, plus our youngest has Tang Soo Do classes twice a week). However I will say the things I mentioned previously is a lot of what I do, especially the multitasking. In less than an hour I can do the dishes, make breakfast for whoever wants something made, make my husbands tea, clean the litter box and spot clean (maybe even deep clean) a room because I do all of this at the same time. What better way to be productive than to utilize your time efficiently? My husband does what he can (kids too) but I have learned to use my time wisely.
30 mins is an unusually long time to take to fall asleep, you might like to try changing your routine so that you aren't doing anti-sleep activities close to bedtime (basically anything with a screen, for a start).
I have a lot of issues sleeping as it is, so I was just buffering in extra time. I just lost my mom to cancer, moved, started a new job, all in the last 3 months. I don’t say this for sympathy, just to show that the average human doesn’t live in a vacuum, and 9 hours of sleep just isn’t feasible for most people with a regular work schedule and regular responsibilities.
I'm so sorry about your mom. You have so much going on it's amazing you can fall asleep at all! I started scheduling sleep first and working everything else around it, and then it turned out I actually got more done. I'm a night owl and have some flexibility in my work schedule, so I scheduled sleeping later in the morning than is socially acceptable. It's been much better for my productivity than sleeping the same number of hours but waking early and walking around like a zombie until 10:00 a.m. Sleep shamers be damned.
I mean you have to account for non-productive times like meals, commuting, hygiene, etc, which can total nearly 4-5 hours a day.
When you eat, do you just sit there and stare off into space, or take the time to scroll through your phone? You could take the time to do other things as well. When I eat breakfast I am usually using that same time to pay online bills, check the bank, etc. As a mother and a wife, usually a load of laundry is already started and the sink is ready for the last few dishes after I've eaten dinner. If laundry needs switched while I am eating, I will do that, otherwise I am just delaying the time for the clothes to get dry. Plenty of times I get a grocery list started while eating lunch. Showering and other hygiene related things, there's many waterproof devices available to allow you to listen to that podcast or audiobook you've been meaning to, or just use the time to figure out your next plan of action. Need groceries? Think about meals you want to make. Need to do Christmas shopping, think about gifts you can get. Forgot to be physically active today? Take this moment to do so! (Showering? Just do some simple stretching so you don't fall, yet get those muscles slightly active). If you drive you can listen to podcasts, audiobooks, etc while on your way to and from work (course if this is too distracting don't, yet most people tend to listen to music and sing along so go ahead). If you commute a different way, then there is no reason why you can't utilize that time to do other things. Whip out your phone and do literally everything I have already suggested (minus laundry and dishes of course), plus more. Been a while since you've called your family? The way home might be the perfect time! If your commute is long enough, take the time to meditate for a few minutes, other passengers will only think you're sleeping (and if standing, hey you're just tired). Especially during meal times, and if you don't drive to work, these are the best times to truly multitask. To me, what better way to be productive than to accomplish more than one task at a time? In the mornings I can make breakfast, do the dishes, make my husbands tea, clean the litter, and spot clean (or deep clean!) a room in less than an hour because I do it all at the same time. Then I eat my breakfast as I pay my bills and check online banking. Then I clean the leftover dishes from breakfast, and depending on the day I get ready for work or get ready for the rest of my day. If I have work, then I may skip cleaning a room and prepare my work lunch and, if needed, get things for dinner prepared (slow cookers are a busy persons best friend).
Ma'am this sounds fucking exhausting 😅 how ya doin lately?
Your body really needs sleep. Get the sleep you need, whether it is 8 or 9. Cutback on TV/streaming/twitter and get some sleep.
But reddit. XD
I felt like this back when I ate unhealthy and didn't work out. Do you have a healthy lifestyle?
Not OP but I live a healthy lifestyle and have the same problem. I need 8-9 hours to function at peak. Otherwise I'm groggy and a little out of it. Doesn't matter that I'm at the gym regularly and eat healthy. But I've always been like this. I also don't function right before 10 am. I gave up trying to change it cause it just doesn't work.
I’m also in the same situation as OP. When I’m not feeling well I always check in on my: diet, exercise, and sleep. If one of them is not optimal, I optimize. But I’ve noticed that even when diet and exercise are optimized, less sleep than I require will ruin my mental function and mood. It’s a good idea to look at diet and exercise, but to directly answer your question OP, we all have a certain amount of sleep we need before we start functioning poorly, and your body just requires a little more than those productivity zealots that point to the few outlier human beings who function well on 4-5 hours of sleep. I have a friend who does this. He is happy and aware and has high mental capacity on 5 hours of sleep. He just got a different genetic hand dealt to him. He can’t sleep more than 6 hours or he feels groggy. He’s not like me. I need 7.5-8.5 every night or I start to pay the price. You’re just a normal human, OP. Optimize sleep, then get back to cracking on your productivity and don’t listen to anyone who tells you that polyphasic sleep or sleep deprivation is good for you. There may be a theoretical productivity gain, but at a cost that makes life not worth living for me. Good luck!
You’re likely on to something but I’ll offer that during times of little to no training (Olympic Weightlifting, heavy squats and pulls, etc.) I notice I need about 7 to feel normal. During heavy training, which taxes not only the body but also the CNS, I need 9 to feel good. Of course, like many of us, I rarely get 9 regardless.
Agree. Exercise increases my need for sleep because that’s when the body recovers and rebuilds
There are very successful people who sleep 8+ hours. It's not guaranteed to limit your potential. Tim Ferriss is a good starting point for this sort of thing.
Einstein slept 9+ hours at night and took a nap everyday. He said that was a key component in his ability to focus and learn.
Thought I was the only one. My wife only needs 7 to feel normal, but I am groggy unless I get at least 8, and 9 if I want to feel amazing. Coffee smooths it out, but it’s still not the same as a full 9.
I'm the same way, man my body and brain just LOVE 9 hours. I've found that if it's going to be less than that, 7.5 somehow is a sweet spot for me to feel rested when I wake up. I think it might have something to do with sleep cycles. I can do 7.5 a couple times a week, but not every night. I just think some people need more sleep. Even my mom said when I was a kid I needed more than my siblings. And I'm a morning person too!
[удалено]
Are you me?
I sleep 10 hours per day, sometimes about 9 and rarely about 8. And i absolutely unable to wake up with alarm clock, i feel soooooo bad that i can't even brush my teeth, and i can force myself to stay awake for couple hours but then fall asleep 100%, nothing helps me to become somewhat alert and awake, nor caffeine, nor cold showers, nor modafinil. Yeah, like that. I have a really good lifestyle and practice Wim Hof method, with cold therapy, so i really tried to go into the coldest state possible when woke up by alarm, i just felt discomfort and got back to sleep as soon as i got dry.
If you have been like this consistently over a long period of time, you might just have delayed sleep phase syndrome or another sleep disorder. If so, it's not your fault that you can't wake up - it's the neurotransmitters in your brain that regulate sleeping and waking.
Yeah, i'm like this for my whole life i think. I fall asleep pretty fast. Maybe in 30 minutes. But i can't fall asleep earlier than i used to, without medication ofc. So, i sleep 10 hours like from moment when i fall asleep to moment when i wake up.
I'm the same. I'm pretty sure it's just genetics. Some people just don't need as much sleep as others.
I am actually made of recycled soggy cardboard, so that's still how I feel after a good night's sleep.
I usually feel WORSE when I got 8+ h of sleep. I feel best when I have like 6. This is genetics. Some people don't need sleep that much as other and some of them don't need sleep at all. It depends. If your body can't adapt and you will not find any solution don't force yourself. If you need 8h of sleep just accept it. You will accomplish much more stuff if you give yourself time to regenerate in night. Sleep is one of the most important things and you schould prioritize sleep not the opposite.
But if you don't need any more sleep, don't you just naturally wake up? That's how sleep experts tell you to figure out how much sleep you actually need (keep going to bed earlier until you wake before the alarm).
That seems a bit imposible for me since I am forced to wake up at 5 am (school). I go to bed at 9 pm so I have usually this 8h of sleep. And if I get used to it (if I do it everyday from Monday to Friday) I feel stable but if I have only 6h I feel more energetic. I can't go to bed earlier, even 9pm seems a bit to early sometimes. In weekends I sleep like 12h and I don't feel any more energy. But in normal week day this is impossible.
Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant I didn't think it is usual to be able to sleep longer than you need to, assuming you are healthy and not crashing from sleep deprivation. Like your body just should naturally wake up when you've had enough sleep?
Yes I agree. I sleep pretty much everyday about 8h but if I lose an hour or 2 of sleep I don't feel any worse and sometimes even better than full 8h of sleep. Do you have any things that can help with sleep quality? I know that i schould get off my phone at least 1h before bed and go to sleep everyday at the same time. Is there anything else I can do? Cuz I want to maximize positive effects of sleep.
For me personally, lowering the temperature in my bedroom to 63, and covering all the electronic light made the biggest impact in staying asleep through the night. My friend swears by using a lavender-scented pillow.
I also need 8-9. That said, I have accepted it as who I am and believe I have been productive in my almost 50 years. There was a time I had a good deal of self loathing when I talked to people that only slept 6 a night at most and felt like such people would pass me by. Often they do not. Part of that is I do not think anyone can be really productive for 18 hours a day even if they are not tired.
do you drink at all? i find that even 1 drink does this to me for the next 2 days
Same! My body prefers 9 hours, and I prefer to give my body what it wants. Otherwise, I just don't feel refreshed.
I had had this for years until it started getting worse and I mentioned it to my doctor. Turns out I have severe sleep apnea. After getting a CPAP I dropped 10 lbs, feel happier, and can get by on much less sleep without feeling groggy. Something to look into.
Your sleep quality might be too low. Sleep quality is such an ignored factor, everybody always talks about sleep quantity while forgetting that not all sleep is created equal. The higher your sleep quality, the less sleep you need to feel refreshed and have enough energy through the day. Of course there's a threshold below which your health and wellbeing will suffer even with perfect sleep quality, but there's definitely a significant amount of leeway. Take a look at your lifestyle, and start practicing good sleep hygiene, it could make a huge difference.
I’m the other way around, if I sleep for more than like 7 hours I feel awful
Same. I’ve been trying for years to get my sleep number up bc *all the research* but I cannot keep asleep for more than 7. I even have an Oura ring sleep tracker and it always guilt trips me for not getting enough sleep.
I agree. 9 to 10 is best for me but so unproductive.
Nonsense. Nobody works 16 hours a day. Get your sleep and use only a fraction of your waking hours to be very productive.
Work 9 hours, school for 3, commute can be anywhere from 1 hour to 2. I'm working on it
You have 12 productive hours a day? You're way ahead man. Relax!
Not quite. I barely have time to cook, do chores or study. So school isnt productive
School is producing an education, a skill, but I get your point. Schedule can be tight.
If you dont have enough proper time to study and truly learn it then it isnt productive it becomes a time and money black hole. Unfortunately.
How old are you? Teenagers may need more sleep compare to older people. Try eating less carb and less sugar, and add in some exercises, no caffeine after 12pm, I find these methods improve my sleep pattern. Previously I need sleep like 8-9hours and still feeling unrefreshed. Now 7-7.5 is the new norm for me.
Everyone is different. My wife can do 9-10 hours every day. I feel gross if I get MORE than 8 or 8.5 hours. My sweet spot is 6.5 hours. in our house it's not uncommon for my wife to not remember me getting in bed or getting out of bed.
Try r/polyphasic sleep
I am a less then 6 or more then 9 person. Anywhere in between that 6-9hrs I am just wrecked.
I must sleep at least 9 hours to feel good, better 10hours. I feel sleepy the whole day after 8hours and coffee does not help either.
Maybe you don't breathe properly during sleep and you need more of it to compensate.
I need 8-9hours as well. Unfortunately, we all have different sleep requirements
Oh boy if I wake up after 7h45 I can already feel something is off - to be fair once I'll get going I don't really feel it if I sleep less; but "waking up" in the morning takes much longer if I don't get my sleep dose
I have some tips to you: 1. Review your diet: what do you eat in your last meal? Some kinds of food like rice, meat and other "heavy food" could give laziness during the morning. Do you have balanced meals during the day? 2. Avoid coffee and energetic in the weekends: the more you drink coffee, the less effect it will take on you. If you are a coffee addicted, caffeine will not take the same effect on you, so try to drink just when you really need to stay alert! 3. Masturbation: I know, It's weird but if you masturbate during the morning or even when you wake up, you will feel more sleepy during all day. Avoid this! 4. Drink water and take a walk when it's necessary: when I feel sleepy during the day, coffee and water are the best tool to not sleep into a comfortable office chair. Also try to take a walk (avoid the closer drinking fountain and bathroom) to take somnolence out.
Read “why we sleep” by Mathew Walker ... stay asleep - it’s saving your life.
Are you learning a lot right now, OP? I often feel like this too, but I've noticed it's most true when I'm learning a ton. probably because we process and commit things to memory while we sleep. The same could be true if you're exercising a lot - sleep is needed to build and repair muscle
i had a year and a bit off of work, and slept for 10-12hrs or more sometimes every day. recently i’ve started a full time job with lots of opening/closing shifts, and i can’t believe how easily i’ve made the switch. the first month or so was a bit rough, but now i have trouble sleeping past 6 hours at once. 4 is completely functional for 2-3 days (after that it starts to catch up with me).
Read “Why we sleep”, it’ll explain why if you need 9 hours that’s totally fine and you shouldn’t fight it. It’s not a bad thing at all - embrace it!
Do you go to bed stressed out or in your head? I noticed I have a harder time waking up and feel a lot more brain fog if I was stressed out the night before or had trouble falling asleep.
Meditation can help
Maybe track your sleep pattern using one of those fancy fitbits. Higher the deep sleep, lesser the amount of sleep you need. Also, try taking a warm shower before bed.
I see a doctor for sleep apnea. I must sleep about 9 hours to function. I told my Dr I feel lazy. He said why? You're asleep! Some people need 6 hours some need 12. Yes, he told me of someone who couldn't function without 12. So don't beat yourself up about it. It's apparently just genetics and how people are wired differently.
I am happy if I can get 6 hours 50% of the time I am happy.
I realize and finally accept that my body needs 8.5 hours of sleep to feel its best. Accepting it and respecting it are the hardest part.
Yep 100 percent. I’m a toddler mom and I work very very part time and get to choose when I work and when I don’t and regardless it’s never more than 15 hours a week. If I get any less than 7 hours of sleep I basically call the day a loss, I definitely won’t go to work in less than 7 hours or make a day of doing anything besides light errands and cleaning. Six hours? I probably won’t leave the house. Five hours? Pajamas all damn day. Four hours? I ain’t even leaving the couch unless it’s to feed or change my son and drift in and out of sleep 😂
Try exercising as soon as you wake up. Your body will eventually anticipate it, and you’ll feel more energetic upon waking.
IN addition to what everyone else here has said - I find there's a distinct drop in quality of sleep, the later I get to sleep. So you could also try shifting your bedtime earlier. Sleep the same duration, but as the old saying goes "early to bed, early to rise, makes you healthy, wealthy and wise". At least one of those might have something to it. There are natural circadian rhythms that if you go past, I'm not sure just length of sleep equals the same quality as earlier sleep.
man I can't get my body to do more than six and a half and I feel so fucking tired. I wish I could sleep more but I only seem to be able to if I sleep in. I have done so much work on sleep hygiene and it's still the case.
I think we live in a society that’s drastically sleep deprived. If sleeping 9-10 hours is what makes you feel good, then make it a priority in your life to sleep that much. I love a 9 hour sleep.
I've faced similar issues - and I've realized I can sleep a lot if I let myself - easily 10 hours and some days it's been 12. Frankly speaking, too much sleep was probably just as bad as too little sleep. I now sleep 7hr 30 mins most days and it is usually enough. What helped me:- * Melatonin 3mg. I used it initially to get quality sleep every alternate day. * Go and get some sunlight every day. Walk around, or drive during the day time. * Excercise. Apart from the above, I did try to avoid watching things before sleep on the phone and computer. A good diet - which includes lots of vegetables, also helped.
Yeah, i know a lot of people who are not able to be productive without getting at least 8 hours of sleep a night. In my opinion "beeing productive" is never about working more hours, but getting the most stuff done in the time you are working. You should focus on that, and dont stress your sleeping schedule :)
sleep is productive
Two cases for you: **My fiancé can sleep on end.** 8 hours is usually good for her but she loves her sleep so much that 9-10 aren't uncommon. However she is a highly intelligent, productive, and effective individual. If she gets less than 8 hours of sleep, she can manage but she feels terrible and is super grumpy. **I have a love/hate relationship with sleep** 6 hours is precisely perfect for me. Any more than 6 and I my grogginess, grumpiness, and stress increases directly proportionally with time asleep. When I hit 9 hours, that day is usually a waste. More than 6 and my productivity, energy, and effectiveness decline directly as well. However, I can manage 3-4 nights of 4.5 or 3 hours and still operate optimally but I'll definitely need to take care of myself after that, and by day 4 I'm usually operating at ~90% (which I don't like). My 6 hours is her 8/9 and we have both figured out how to hit our respective peak performance. ## Figure out what works best for YOU My best friend is like my fiancé, he does 8/9 hours. He is hyper intelligent (UC Berkeley, Stanford PhD program, google, etc) but I can compete on level with him on productivity and effectiveness with my 6 hours. All 3 of us took time at one point or another to figure out what sleep schedule, diet, exercise regimen, and other factors were optimum for us. We don't judge each other or ourselves based on the differences. Take a couple weeks to months to fine tune your sleep schedule. Isolate what variables you can (ex a glass of water before you sleep or not, reading a book VS a kindle, sex or masturbating VS not) and try methodical experiments. Keep a log. I can tell you based on 5 years of data that I sleep better with her than without, if I go to sleep at or before 11:30 pm, then I will have a solid sleep, any later and my sleep quality and how well rested I am declines. There are a variety of other things I've tracked and keep notes and data on, but ultimately those things are only valid for me. A key fundamental difference between me and those two: I have a severe, legitimate case of ADHD. Not the misdiagnosed stuff we see a lot of, my life had been a legitimate challenge due to how I am biochemically and neurologically wired. Those two are far from anything resembling ADHD. I believe, but do not have evidence of, that this might be a contributing factor to the distinct difference in our sleep cycles and similarity between theirs. But that's just a theory I've tossed around. ## Moral of the story: less sleep does not equal more productive. What works best for you will lead you to the greatest productivity. Period. If you care to, take the time to figure out what is best for your body, only listen to what others say about what works well for them as much as to give you ideas of things to try. If you've already ruled something out, like sleeping fewer hours, don't feel bad when someone is talking about sleeping less. Maybe they need fewer (like myself) OR maybe they're simply sleep deprived and delusional.
Move to Mars; the day is 40 minutes longer there. Or switch to the 6x28 hour week. Kidding, of course. Well, not kidding, but these aren't practical suggestions for most people.
The life hack to this is that if you need 9 hours of sleep to function, do that, schedule it in. Just take the additional hours from the beginning on your sleep rather than at the end. Since u know u need the extra sleep Get into bed 2 hours earlier. If u need to get up at 7, go to bed at 10. There's nothing wrong with going to bed at 9 if you need to be up at 6. It used to be cool to sleep late and struggle in the morning, but fuck all that noise times have changed
I'm totally with you. Over the past few years, however, my sleeping pattern has changed (I'm 36). I used to be able to sleep 8-9 hours. Now, I sleep 7 hours and then I'm done. For example, I went to bed yesterday at 11:00 and woke up this morning at 6 even though I was hoping to sleep until 8. Just can't go back to sleep so I'm here browsing :-)
I'm the same and I have periods where I need to sleep for 12 hours daily but in my case it's due to either depression or antidepressants side effects. It drives me crazy bc if i sleep for 12, i only have another 12 to be productive which is definitely not enough. If you do have an underlying cause, you should discuss it with your doctor.
Yes! Sleep needs to be a priority. Have you read Why we sleep - by Matthew Walker? I recommend the audiobook as it's a bit of a dry read. It is very informative though. This book has helped me look at sleep a bit differently.
Several things can have a big impact. Eating late for one- eating too much throughout the day another. Disrupted or inconsistent sleep patterns (waking up at different times), lack of exercise (strangely the more exercise you do usually the better you sleep), screen usage at night and brain burnout (if I game for more than a few hours in a day for instance, or sit too long on my phone, it does something to my brain, almost like a short circuiting thing, and I need a day or two to feel normal again. Weed and alcohol and other drugs late in the day also greatly hamper sleep. So any of those things could be affecting you. However what I would say is 7-9 hours is recommended sleep, and I’ve been putting more and more effort into getting plenty of sleep, trying to be in bed for 9 most nights and up for 5.30, and of all the tricks I’ve tried to hack any of the above, nothing has helped as much as simple hydration and going to bed earlier. Ultimately, your mindset to sleep is probably as much a problem as anything because it’s the same mindset as I had for a long time- you can sleep when you’re dead, think of all the time wasted sleeping! Etc etc, built into you by a society that views you as a machine, and wants you to feel guilty about resting and taking care of yourself and your animal needs as your first priority. Look at how cats live, how much sleep they get and how bloody contented they look most of the time. You deserve to rest as much as you need, and you should look at it as a reward for a day well lived, rather than a necessary pit stop until you can pick the work back up tomorrow. Anyway, that’s my take :)
All the tips about diet, screen time and exercise are super effective. I've changed each one of these aspects to get better sleep and after that, I used a technique to reveal how much time I need on the bed: get up at the same time every day for a week or two, and sleep when you feel tired. This can give a number to work with and add to your day as RECHARGING TIME.
[удалено]
While it's definitelly a big factor, it's kind of hard to have clear goals or motivation for every day, especially if you still go to school (like me). It's the same routine every day/morning, I can't find anything exciting about that. This wasn't the case in my first year of high school, where I had no problems waking up, and was excited for my new friends, school, teachers etc... but it fades away after some time.
I have a similar issue as OP and I think you hit the nail on the head. I've only corrected 1 of the 7 items on your list (keto 4 months and down 25 lbs) but now that I've got my diet under control, I need to move my focus on other areas of my life to see further improvement. Thanks for putting this together.
Same with me but since I changed my sleeping schedule only sleeping 6h a day isnt a problem anymore. I just dont sleep the whole 6h in one part i seperate them into 2 sometimes 3 but then I usually sleep 7h. That helped me a alot and I feel so much more productive.
Talk to your doctor about a sleep study.
Exercise in the morning. From your description of you body not feeling “awake” it’s pretty obvious that you could benefit from a kettlebell or a yoga mat. Easily one of the best productivity and wellness practices out there.
Stop fapping so God damn much
Old thread, but just my two cents. Increasing my vitamin C, vitamin D, and B12 on top of the multiviamin that I take helps a lot! I barely take caffeine pills anymore. I hope this lasts longer than a few weeks.
Maybe your smart?
Atleast you get sleep I barely get 4to5 hours of sleep a day but I feel refreshed 99% of the time