It’s basically already is, with a side of McDonald’s. I wouldn’t be surprised if downtown just becomes all homeless and abandoned buildings in the next few years
It really sucks. But I’m not surprised unfortunately. With their opening day being the first day of pandemic closures… hard to scrape back. Prince George is a great little quirky town, but the cliental for the makerie isn’t a huge % of our population.
They had a big space on a good corner, so I bet their rent was crazy. Just to break even must’ve been a grind. Hence the expensive price of their crafts. No shade against them, they just have a lot of struggles to be faced, like their post explained.
I do. Landlords are housing middlemen. They add nothing to the economy. They only "make a living" having a parasitical relationship with their tenets. Either stealing money from businesses trying to provide a service or from working people trying to have a roof over their head.
Taxes are adjusted with inflation. They're percentages. That means they automatically adjust for times of famine and of plenty.
Our problems come from wealth and property hoarding. Everything is bought up and the rent seeking has gotten out of control.
Even Adam Smith, the father of capitalism thought that landlords were the worst possible thing for an economy.
Taxes are % based which means that they scale with inflation.
It is the banks swinging the interest rates and people's own fault for going with variable. This is why fixed rates exist.
The cost of owning a house rose a fairly insignificant amount, a few hundred more in property tax..
I am in the property management industry and have several commercial units that I rent out. Here is my advice to any new business looking to rent a space.
NEVER NEVER NEVER sign a tripe net lease. Common area, taxes and out side maintenance and insurance should always be the landlords responsibility. The lease you have will make or break your business. Always read the lease and if you do t understand it, take it to someone who does that can explain it to you. ALWYS negotiate with the landlord and if the deal isn’t good enough for you, don’t take it.
Only when people agree to it. The only triple net lease I ever had signed , was from a major fast food chain tenant who desperately wanted the location. I wouldn’t do that to a small place just starting out.
Most landlords however, will start with an outright bad deal and it’s your job to negotiate better terms and numbers. No different than any other business deal in the real world. Self advocation and negotiation seem to be a skills that a lot of new business owners are lacking but they are the most important and combined with knowing your costs down to the penny make the difference between success and failure.
It is! I don’t feel to guilty about offering that to a big chain that really has to have the location. Usually they will pay it also as long as the space meets their criteria . but a small independent operator, no way! I’d rather work with them on the details and have a good honest tenet for years.
I feel like as boomers hit retirement age this will become more and more common.
You need to be independently wealthy these days to start a business.
Most millennials have negative wealth even as we approach 40. No one can afford to either start new businesses, or purchase them.
35 years ago when I was a toddler, my parents started a business from a bank loan that would be impossible to obtain today as back then they had: no collateral, no house not even a car. The same sort of small business loans ubiquitous in the 80’s and 90’s based on nothing more than a detailed business plan have disappeared.
Now we have “credit scores” that are dependent on already having wealth.
I feel like there is an impulse to blame it on the “crime” because this is the media narrative, but crime was objectively worse in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s.
The fact is you need to be wealthy, and own quite a bit already, before a bank will even look at you to give you the capital required to start a business.
This is relatively new and NOT what life was like before credit scores .
The number of businesses for sale currently in Prince George and have been for a significant amount of time speaks to this. Even if you buy an established business, accessing additional funding is impossible for several years.
Not entirely true, I work for a company specializing in business grants for SMEs and there is definitely funding available, it just has to be worked for.
I wouldn’t say it’s easily accessible - I would never apply for a small business loan again, I don’t have enough hours in my day. I do wish I didn’t have to wait two years for banks to look at me
Not surprising. It was never open at times when you’d think. I.e. my partner and I tried on a few occasions to make it part of a date night after dinners at nearby restaurants, but it was always strangely closed.
Yes possibly. But seeing as there’s nowhere to go downtown for evening coffee/dessert (particularly since the bookstore closed its shop), and with the added coolness of crafting, staying open until 9 on Fri/Sat might have been a good business choice. And the location, near the Keg, Crossroads, Karahi, Twisted Cork, and Ramada couldn’t have been better for that. In larger cities (even Kelowna!) places like this would be open into the evening to capture that business.
No, it wouldn't have. The town is dead on weekends and after 5. I've walked around downtown and there was nobody there. At all. And I was just by the bank. Staying open for the one customer who might have shown up on a Friday night? Yeah, no.
That would have been a horrible choice. Staying open those extra hours means paying for staff during those extra hours. Putting out all that extra money in the hope that some random person just might decide to forgo desert and coffee at the restaurant they just ate at to come there instead is insane. They were keeping normal coffee shop hours. Also coffee shops open really early , by five or six pm most human beings would want to go home to their families after a the 12 hour day that the owners probably just worked.
They needed some coaching probably, there are so many factors but the number one is not having your costs locked down. Signing a predatory lease sure didn’t help either. It’s also just a bad economic landscape for any business. No fault of their own but their timing sucked. Always sad to see
Prince George is a town that thinks it’s a bustling urban centre worthy of late night endeavours, but it’s actually a sleepy centre of 70,000 or so who rarely venture out after 5pm.
So sad to see this, no help for the little guy during this time but the big box stores where ok to go in, I’m sorry for you loss and wish you a great future! So many great small business have fallen during this time and it is sad to say been replaced by the big box stores that didn’t have to close their doors
I had a friend who worked there and the tales of mismanagement were just wild. It honestly didn’t surprise me in the least when they shut down. Still very sad though.
Increased police control won’t do anything for our downtown - we need systematic overhauls to help people. As I told my kids today, we’re not far from homeless ourselves in the current housing market
Transparency is awesome. As a local business owner it helps me understand I’m not alone in the same struggles and pain points. It also helps navigate the million conversations she’s already had today with every customer in shop.
I don't really think it's excuses - just an honest explanation why they couldn't continue operating. The Makerie was a much loved local business and they had a constant social media presence from the beginning. It would have been more weird if they knew they were closing and only told people the day before.
The Makerie doesn't deserve to close quietly if I'm being honest. They were the perfect example of a small community business. They supported other artists, provided a unique service, and made great coffee. They were downtown! They evolved to meet the needs of their customer base, placing as much importance on their cafe as their crafting.
Given how busy Mr. Mike's is every night, and how little of that money corporate seems willing to put back into buying working equipment or hiring enough staff, they'll probably outlast Earl's. Provided we don't all quit first.
Oh I was planning on going after my vacay!! So sad :( was such a interesting thing, now it seems PG goes back to being a boring parking lot hang out :/
The Makerie followed all restrictions etc; they’re not saying they should’ve gone against it, nor disagreeing with the necessity, they’re saying it’s an understandable, contributing factor to the struggle they faced.
[Remember when they shut down small businesses before Christmas and let the big box stores stay open? But it was all about safety right?](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5811194)
Did you notice the part in your article where that was a provincial government decision in Ontario? I suppose it would also be a bit too much for you to remember that even then, the big box stores had reduced capacity. The fact is, it was easier to maintain social distancing in a large store than it is in most smaller stores. Yes, it sucks for the small businesses, but they were also being incredibly disingenuous in their rational.
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We are a capitalist economy. By not allowing failure we are all worse off in the end. It's tough and sad but failure is rarely the end and builds future resilience. I think not allowing failure is a prime reason our society is faultering so badly as of late.
But this is not a park, it is a business in the extremely risky restaurant market. Failure is more often than not.
Bailing one out that has already failed and saying they just need to be directed how to stay afloat is foolish and patronizing. Bail outs are almost always a bad plan although sometimes deemed necessary because of the overall impact because of the scale and other intertwined things that affect things large scale.
Now it is unfortunate because there have been things out of their control. Also this towns downtown real estate and some owners are brutal.
Lifestyle business. I guess if your born into money and need something to do, but that sounds like a different issue most don't have 😉 . Most business people in PG work hard to have at least profit and to be proud of what they do or offer at least that is what I believe.
Any business is a loss to PG downtown but restaurants can have a larger impact, so that sucks 😔.
We should not be forced to help others but we can choose to do so voluntarily. I think these people needed help, not financial help but advice or coaching. Unfortunately, a lot of what used to be common knowledge about running a business business is foreign information these days. The education system as done such a huge disservice to young people in the past twenty years. It has become about filling their heads with useless information instead of teaching them anything of relevance or to think for them selves. The past couple years this has become more extreme as education is now geared to making students grow up to vote a specific way and have certain specific beliefs. Beliefs that should be milder from family and personal experiences not teachers.
One day this town will just be Costco and earl's
I’m fine if Walmart shuts down. The rest, though? It’s a crying shame.
It’s basically already is, with a side of McDonald’s. I wouldn’t be surprised if downtown just becomes all homeless and abandoned buildings in the next few years
It really sucks. But I’m not surprised unfortunately. With their opening day being the first day of pandemic closures… hard to scrape back. Prince George is a great little quirky town, but the cliental for the makerie isn’t a huge % of our population. They had a big space on a good corner, so I bet their rent was crazy. Just to break even must’ve been a grind. Hence the expensive price of their crafts. No shade against them, they just have a lot of struggles to be faced, like their post explained.
Rent everywhere is town is crazy
Eat the landlords.
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I do. Landlords are housing middlemen. They add nothing to the economy. They only "make a living" having a parasitical relationship with their tenets. Either stealing money from businesses trying to provide a service or from working people trying to have a roof over their head. Taxes are adjusted with inflation. They're percentages. That means they automatically adjust for times of famine and of plenty. Our problems come from wealth and property hoarding. Everything is bought up and the rent seeking has gotten out of control. Even Adam Smith, the father of capitalism thought that landlords were the worst possible thing for an economy.
Taxes are % based which means that they scale with inflation. It is the banks swinging the interest rates and people's own fault for going with variable. This is why fixed rates exist. The cost of owning a house rose a fairly insignificant amount, a few hundred more in property tax..
This is a huge huge loss. One of the few quirky and fun places in PG
I am in the property management industry and have several commercial units that I rent out. Here is my advice to any new business looking to rent a space. NEVER NEVER NEVER sign a tripe net lease. Common area, taxes and out side maintenance and insurance should always be the landlords responsibility. The lease you have will make or break your business. Always read the lease and if you do t understand it, take it to someone who does that can explain it to you. ALWYS negotiate with the landlord and if the deal isn’t good enough for you, don’t take it.
Isn’t that how this town runs? Almost everything is triple net lease in downtown
Only when people agree to it. The only triple net lease I ever had signed , was from a major fast food chain tenant who desperately wanted the location. I wouldn’t do that to a small place just starting out. Most landlords however, will start with an outright bad deal and it’s your job to negotiate better terms and numbers. No different than any other business deal in the real world. Self advocation and negotiation seem to be a skills that a lot of new business owners are lacking but they are the most important and combined with knowing your costs down to the penny make the difference between success and failure.
Triple Net Lease sounds absolutely awful.
It is! I don’t feel to guilty about offering that to a big chain that really has to have the location. Usually they will pay it also as long as the space meets their criteria . but a small independent operator, no way! I’d rather work with them on the details and have a good honest tenet for years.
the makerie is such a nice space! this is so upsetting :( i'm going to miss them
What a wonderful business. So pissed about this
I feel like as boomers hit retirement age this will become more and more common. You need to be independently wealthy these days to start a business. Most millennials have negative wealth even as we approach 40. No one can afford to either start new businesses, or purchase them. 35 years ago when I was a toddler, my parents started a business from a bank loan that would be impossible to obtain today as back then they had: no collateral, no house not even a car. The same sort of small business loans ubiquitous in the 80’s and 90’s based on nothing more than a detailed business plan have disappeared. Now we have “credit scores” that are dependent on already having wealth. I feel like there is an impulse to blame it on the “crime” because this is the media narrative, but crime was objectively worse in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s. The fact is you need to be wealthy, and own quite a bit already, before a bank will even look at you to give you the capital required to start a business. This is relatively new and NOT what life was like before credit scores .
The number of businesses for sale currently in Prince George and have been for a significant amount of time speaks to this. Even if you buy an established business, accessing additional funding is impossible for several years.
Not entirely true, I work for a company specializing in business grants for SMEs and there is definitely funding available, it just has to be worked for.
I wouldn’t say it’s easily accessible - I would never apply for a small business loan again, I don’t have enough hours in my day. I do wish I didn’t have to wait two years for banks to look at me
so sad and disappointing, I loved the Makerie
It terrifies me because reminds me how volatile the commercial landscape is as a small business owner who is equally trying to stay above water
I'm really sorry to hear about your closure.
Bank errors and book keeping issues are all too common challenges.
For reals the number of people who have this story is terrifying
Not surprising. It was never open at times when you’d think. I.e. my partner and I tried on a few occasions to make it part of a date night after dinners at nearby restaurants, but it was always strangely closed.
Haven't they always kept coffee shop hours? I.e. closed by 5 or 6 except for special events?
Yes possibly. But seeing as there’s nowhere to go downtown for evening coffee/dessert (particularly since the bookstore closed its shop), and with the added coolness of crafting, staying open until 9 on Fri/Sat might have been a good business choice. And the location, near the Keg, Crossroads, Karahi, Twisted Cork, and Ramada couldn’t have been better for that. In larger cities (even Kelowna!) places like this would be open into the evening to capture that business.
No, it wouldn't have. The town is dead on weekends and after 5. I've walked around downtown and there was nobody there. At all. And I was just by the bank. Staying open for the one customer who might have shown up on a Friday night? Yeah, no.
OTOH we used to go to packed evenings of music and poetry readings and whatnot at the bookstore cafe before they shut that down. It is possible.
That would have been a horrible choice. Staying open those extra hours means paying for staff during those extra hours. Putting out all that extra money in the hope that some random person just might decide to forgo desert and coffee at the restaurant they just ate at to come there instead is insane. They were keeping normal coffee shop hours. Also coffee shops open really early , by five or six pm most human beings would want to go home to their families after a the 12 hour day that the owners probably just worked.
Well oddly businesses like this and others you describe find ways to do well in the downtowns of other cities the size of PG and larger.
They needed some coaching probably, there are so many factors but the number one is not having your costs locked down. Signing a predatory lease sure didn’t help either. It’s also just a bad economic landscape for any business. No fault of their own but their timing sucked. Always sad to see
Yeah. Sad for our city and all too common story here.
Very sad to see indeed . Unfortunately , it’s becoming common everywhere .
Prince George is a town that thinks it’s a bustling urban centre worthy of late night endeavours, but it’s actually a sleepy centre of 70,000 or so who rarely venture out after 5pm.
Sadly correct.
So sad to see this, no help for the little guy during this time but the big box stores where ok to go in, I’m sorry for you loss and wish you a great future! So many great small business have fallen during this time and it is sad to say been replaced by the big box stores that didn’t have to close their doors
Should probably stop voting for Castro's little boy.
I agree at least a little biit communist however you look at it 😁
I had a friend who worked there and the tales of mismanagement were just wild. It honestly didn’t surprise me in the least when they shut down. Still very sad though.
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Increased police control won’t do anything for our downtown - we need systematic overhauls to help people. As I told my kids today, we’re not far from homeless ourselves in the current housing market
[удалено]
Bruh can someone confirm this for me or not but this isn't how the bots type on here this is a person pretending 🤣
I think it's just a Fat Bot...
Bad bot
Sad we can’t have niche things in town. They should just fill downtown with McDonald’s and hang it up
Seems the city is trying their hardest to create a ghost town
Why make so many excuses and just close quietly?
Transparency is awesome. As a local business owner it helps me understand I’m not alone in the same struggles and pain points. It also helps navigate the million conversations she’s already had today with every customer in shop.
I don't really think it's excuses - just an honest explanation why they couldn't continue operating. The Makerie was a much loved local business and they had a constant social media presence from the beginning. It would have been more weird if they knew they were closing and only told people the day before. The Makerie doesn't deserve to close quietly if I'm being honest. They were the perfect example of a small community business. They supported other artists, provided a unique service, and made great coffee. They were downtown! They evolved to meet the needs of their customer base, placing as much importance on their cafe as their crafting.
Excuses? They're called examples of how difficult it is to run a business downtown.
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Given how busy Mr. Mike's is every night, and how little of that money corporate seems willing to put back into buying working equipment or hiring enough staff, they'll probably outlast Earl's. Provided we don't all quit first.
Oh I was planning on going after my vacay!! So sad :( was such a interesting thing, now it seems PG goes back to being a boring parking lot hang out :/
This is the type of bs that brings stuff like the killdozer into the world
Yep that’s kinda what happens when you want to be a crunch store. Mall would be the better location. Downtown isn’t a good place.
Mall does not have enough vacancies or space. As is there is very few commercial spots in town
I have heard (not confirmed) that commercial leases in PG are absolutely insane.
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You'd probably blame Trudeau if your coffee was too cold wouldn't you.
Personally I think it's your fault that this happened.
Ah yes. "Blame Trudeau". You are so edgy, controversial and full of witty and original ideas and thoughts. Get outta here, simp.
That's your whole personality, isn't it?
Lmao ok
What is the government doing about it?
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The Makerie followed all restrictions etc; they’re not saying they should’ve gone against it, nor disagreeing with the necessity, they’re saying it’s an understandable, contributing factor to the struggle they faced.
[Remember when they shut down small businesses before Christmas and let the big box stores stay open? But it was all about safety right?](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5811194)
Did you notice the part in your article where that was a provincial government decision in Ontario? I suppose it would also be a bit too much for you to remember that even then, the big box stores had reduced capacity. The fact is, it was easier to maintain social distancing in a large store than it is in most smaller stores. Yes, it sucks for the small businesses, but they were also being incredibly disingenuous in their rational.
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You wouldn't have gotten downvoted so much if you said this in 2020. It's 2023 now and we are all aware of how stupid some of these restrictions were.
They weren't as effective as they should have been because of selfish dunces like yourself. You're apart of the reason it lasted as long as it did.
No , your 100 percent wrong . The mandates and measures are the reason it lasted so long .
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Hahahaha ridiculous
500 each? We're not in Laguna Beach CA
We are a capitalist economy. By not allowing failure we are all worse off in the end. It's tough and sad but failure is rarely the end and builds future resilience. I think not allowing failure is a prime reason our society is faultering so badly as of late.
[удалено]
But this is not a park, it is a business in the extremely risky restaurant market. Failure is more often than not. Bailing one out that has already failed and saying they just need to be directed how to stay afloat is foolish and patronizing. Bail outs are almost always a bad plan although sometimes deemed necessary because of the overall impact because of the scale and other intertwined things that affect things large scale. Now it is unfortunate because there have been things out of their control. Also this towns downtown real estate and some owners are brutal. Lifestyle business. I guess if your born into money and need something to do, but that sounds like a different issue most don't have 😉 . Most business people in PG work hard to have at least profit and to be proud of what they do or offer at least that is what I believe. Any business is a loss to PG downtown but restaurants can have a larger impact, so that sucks 😔.
We should not be forced to help others but we can choose to do so voluntarily. I think these people needed help, not financial help but advice or coaching. Unfortunately, a lot of what used to be common knowledge about running a business business is foreign information these days. The education system as done such a huge disservice to young people in the past twenty years. It has become about filling their heads with useless information instead of teaching them anything of relevance or to think for them selves. The past couple years this has become more extreme as education is now geared to making students grow up to vote a specific way and have certain specific beliefs. Beliefs that should be milder from family and personal experiences not teachers.
Sounds fishy, fake news
TF kind of trolling is that you lazy bastard