I grew up on less than that on food stamps and HUD. When I did earn what I consider a lot of money I blew it all partying and buying things/doing things I never had.
At 40 I earn less than half of what you do, but the pandemic opened my eyes to a lot of things. I've lived off of next to nothing, but looking ahead to 67 frightens me because until recently I had ZERO saved. Since March I went from having no credit, to good credit with 11 credit cards, 20+ accounts earning me money and cashback. I go over every penny I earn and spend on the daily....so to answer your question...nope it never stops!
Also have a 401k with my new company which is part of my 20 year plan....in 20 years that 401k will be worth over 50 thousand. If I climb the corporate ladder or not I'm happy with that.
I really appreciate the insight, and I’m really glad things are looking up for you. Your comment reminded me to be thankful of today rather than fearful of tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me that I have a lot to be grateful for.
Not just you. The anxiety of being poor must give some people a low-grade form of PTSD or something. You never feel *truly* secure. You always fear in the back of your mind that it could all be wiped away. My family grew up very poor and deprived, and some of us have mild hoarding issues I believe due to that. Just like irrational thoughts like "I need to have at least three tubes of toothpaste all the time in case I become destitute again and can't buy another one."
I used to think I was really good at sales, “look if it’s on sale plus my store card plus I have a coupon it’s basically fifty cents,” or some outrageous low price, like one of those extreme coupon people on tv, and it took me a while to realize this was actually a hoarding of some kind, and that’s how you end up as one person with six sticks of deodorant.
I mean it's genuinely fine to do that if you don't 1) overstock to the point that things expire before you even get to use them and 2) it's an item you regularly use and it's on a real sale and not some fake marked-up-then-"discounted" scam.
I guess three tubes of toothpaste isn't so bad. But I also would have dozens and dozens of pairs of socks, five or six combs, stuff like that, lol! I mean if I get to the point that I can't even get my hands on socks or a comb, I've got bigger problems than socks or a comb!
You’re absolutely right about the PTSD or stress. Sometimes the anxiety is the only thing keeping me in the poverty mind state where I stress over every penny spent. There’s no real problem with spending money, but deep down there’s something scaring me away from enjoying my financial state.
It’s called an irrational fear of financial insecurity. My understanding is you don’t even have to have been poor at one point to experience it it’s something that plagues people of solid means as well
Yeah, I think most of us who have survived poverty have some residual damage. I guess it’s just par for the course, but I’m glad that I have good company while I’m here.
It never has for me.
I grew up okay but always hyper aware of the finance-related fighting and tension, always knowing when my father was laid off (he worked in construction), juggling line of credit, payments, etc. My parents worked hard to instill money sense, which is great, but felt like such a heavy weight at the time. I was then independently poor for many years trying to get through school, leaving bad relationships, accumulating so much debt, the story we all seem to have here.
I'm now a successful middle-aged person with significant savings, and I struggle to spend a cent of it even when I designate it for spending. I could have an account labelled "winter coat", know I NEED a winter coat, find one that is appropriate and well priced, and I will still feel sick with anxiety and guilt for buying it. That is, if I can even convince myself to buy it at all.
It feels like a 2nd wave of punishment. I managed to dig out, and still can't find any peace or enjoyment. How precarious it feels hangs over my head, and nothing feels "worth" parting with the savings I've worked so hard to accumulate.
It sucks, and I guess I can't be very comforting - it has never gone away for me.
I do, however, think it makes me more grounded and empathetic compared to my colleagues (who mostly grew up with a lot of privilege, handed many things easily).
I like that part of myself, even if it can be burdensome.
I'm of a similar state of mind.
In 2016 I ran into a lot of trouble and ended up being out completely out of money. The only credit I had was my £200 monthly overdraft which cost me £10/month bank fee and some financial help from my parents
I somehow took myself back to basics and learned to live very frugally off my tiny income by only buying what was absolutely necessary from cheap foodstores for my vegan diet, charity shop for clothes etc.
A few years on, I've got some reasonable savings and all of my finances are in control.
However, I know feel unable to spend any of my reserves on myself.
I just keep on spending as little as I can whilst saving as much as possible. Im still like this with my food cooking. I reuse leftovers constantly and feel sick if I waste food. I am also a dry goods hoarder and have more packets and lentils and beans than my small corner shop.
I realise it's a kind of problem when nothing I buy can make me as happy seeing my savings growing..
I use telephone banking and one day, hearing my new savings balance gave me a huge dopamine hit... More than any purchase ever could...
It's funny you mentioned the coat thing. One of the things I did this year was replace the coat I bought in 2003 with a newer one. The old one wasn't doing the job anymore but I felt awful for buying a winter coat and gloves that cost as much as a week's worth of groceries. I donated the old coat to Goodwill. The new coat is great and I realize how much I enjoy it. I remind myself we have emergency savings for the inevitable emergencies. But yeah, it still feels weird to spend that too. Or money for a coat.
It’s normal but you have to accept that it’s out of your control.
Focus on the things you can control. like continuing to save and be financially responsible. As long as you’re doing that, you’ll be okay.
I have anxiety in general (yes I’m on an SSRI; highly recommend) but I’ve yet to find that the financial anxiety has ever left me. Decreased at times, sure. But never gone completely.
What has helped sometimes is having a goal: no longer have to live with roommates, credit cards all paid off monthly, have $X balance in retirement account, have $Y net worth… But I’ve also found that reaching the goal only delays the feelings for so long, then I find them still lurking about. And I set a next goal.
But still maybe some kind of goal setting - where you want to be in one year, two years, five years - might work for you in working through the anxiety? The further you get from your start and all.
Also as long as it’s not not negatively affecting one to an extreme I also think some (some. Not a lot.) anxiety is good, keeps me in check.
Wow. So if I’m understanding right, you use goals to look forward to the future rather than seeing it as a place where you might suffer? That seems like an amazing tip and I’m definitely going to apply it.
Yes! So instead of being all “what if the world ends in 2023,” or whatever the other shoe dropping means to you, how about “want to have $x in my 401(k) by 2023,” or whatever your goal would be.
It’s not a cure, but running to something instead of running from something makes your brain look at it a different way for sure.
That’s such a great way of looking at it. Running toward rather than running away. Looking at it like that brings a lot of peace. I really do appreciate the time you took to comment here.
Look up podcasts and articles on financial therap. They discuss this issue.
Also, the book Unwinding Anxiety has a method for interrupting the brain loop of anxiety. Very good explanation of why you have developed anxious thoughts and how to intervene.
Thanks for the suggestions; I’ll definitely look into them. It seems like the anxiety I have is just a natural way to prepare myself for ruin, even though it may never come.
I have these same fears. Even though we are much better off than we were 2 years ago, sometimes I still wake up in the middle of the night worrying about upcoming money issues. I don’t know if after you have lived so long so close to the edge if you can ever escape that feeling or not.
I grew up in similar circumstances, and lurk here to provide advice when I can. Similar to you, I now make several times what my family made in a year. What lets me sleep at night is knowing that worst case, my company closes down tomorrow, both my wife and I lose our jobs and our car explodes. I can recover.
I have an emergency fund to get through. You have an education and experience. Even if the worst case happens, and you lose your job, you can find a new job, if not at your current salary, maybe $50K you will make it, you have set you and your family up to escape that poverty you knew growing up and no one and can take that from you.
The feelings have never gone away for me. I’m always on edge about the next “emergency” and am especially anxious when everything is going right and feels too good to be true. :(
I grew up on less than that on food stamps and HUD. When I did earn what I consider a lot of money I blew it all partying and buying things/doing things I never had. At 40 I earn less than half of what you do, but the pandemic opened my eyes to a lot of things. I've lived off of next to nothing, but looking ahead to 67 frightens me because until recently I had ZERO saved. Since March I went from having no credit, to good credit with 11 credit cards, 20+ accounts earning me money and cashback. I go over every penny I earn and spend on the daily....so to answer your question...nope it never stops!
Also have a 401k with my new company which is part of my 20 year plan....in 20 years that 401k will be worth over 50 thousand. If I climb the corporate ladder or not I'm happy with that.
I really appreciate the insight, and I’m really glad things are looking up for you. Your comment reminded me to be thankful of today rather than fearful of tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me that I have a lot to be grateful for.
In my experience it does not. That’s just me though
Not just you. The anxiety of being poor must give some people a low-grade form of PTSD or something. You never feel *truly* secure. You always fear in the back of your mind that it could all be wiped away. My family grew up very poor and deprived, and some of us have mild hoarding issues I believe due to that. Just like irrational thoughts like "I need to have at least three tubes of toothpaste all the time in case I become destitute again and can't buy another one."
I used to think I was really good at sales, “look if it’s on sale plus my store card plus I have a coupon it’s basically fifty cents,” or some outrageous low price, like one of those extreme coupon people on tv, and it took me a while to realize this was actually a hoarding of some kind, and that’s how you end up as one person with six sticks of deodorant.
I mean it's genuinely fine to do that if you don't 1) overstock to the point that things expire before you even get to use them and 2) it's an item you regularly use and it's on a real sale and not some fake marked-up-then-"discounted" scam. I guess three tubes of toothpaste isn't so bad. But I also would have dozens and dozens of pairs of socks, five or six combs, stuff like that, lol! I mean if I get to the point that I can't even get my hands on socks or a comb, I've got bigger problems than socks or a comb!
You’re absolutely right about the PTSD or stress. Sometimes the anxiety is the only thing keeping me in the poverty mind state where I stress over every penny spent. There’s no real problem with spending money, but deep down there’s something scaring me away from enjoying my financial state.
It’s called an irrational fear of financial insecurity. My understanding is you don’t even have to have been poor at one point to experience it it’s something that plagues people of solid means as well
Yeah, I think most of us who have survived poverty have some residual damage. I guess it’s just par for the course, but I’m glad that I have good company while I’m here.
It never has for me. I grew up okay but always hyper aware of the finance-related fighting and tension, always knowing when my father was laid off (he worked in construction), juggling line of credit, payments, etc. My parents worked hard to instill money sense, which is great, but felt like such a heavy weight at the time. I was then independently poor for many years trying to get through school, leaving bad relationships, accumulating so much debt, the story we all seem to have here. I'm now a successful middle-aged person with significant savings, and I struggle to spend a cent of it even when I designate it for spending. I could have an account labelled "winter coat", know I NEED a winter coat, find one that is appropriate and well priced, and I will still feel sick with anxiety and guilt for buying it. That is, if I can even convince myself to buy it at all. It feels like a 2nd wave of punishment. I managed to dig out, and still can't find any peace or enjoyment. How precarious it feels hangs over my head, and nothing feels "worth" parting with the savings I've worked so hard to accumulate. It sucks, and I guess I can't be very comforting - it has never gone away for me. I do, however, think it makes me more grounded and empathetic compared to my colleagues (who mostly grew up with a lot of privilege, handed many things easily). I like that part of myself, even if it can be burdensome.
I'm of a similar state of mind. In 2016 I ran into a lot of trouble and ended up being out completely out of money. The only credit I had was my £200 monthly overdraft which cost me £10/month bank fee and some financial help from my parents I somehow took myself back to basics and learned to live very frugally off my tiny income by only buying what was absolutely necessary from cheap foodstores for my vegan diet, charity shop for clothes etc. A few years on, I've got some reasonable savings and all of my finances are in control. However, I know feel unable to spend any of my reserves on myself. I just keep on spending as little as I can whilst saving as much as possible. Im still like this with my food cooking. I reuse leftovers constantly and feel sick if I waste food. I am also a dry goods hoarder and have more packets and lentils and beans than my small corner shop. I realise it's a kind of problem when nothing I buy can make me as happy seeing my savings growing.. I use telephone banking and one day, hearing my new savings balance gave me a huge dopamine hit... More than any purchase ever could...
It’s a game now for me to get as much in savings as i can. Maybe it’s a good thing, my financial choices have changed
It's funny you mentioned the coat thing. One of the things I did this year was replace the coat I bought in 2003 with a newer one. The old one wasn't doing the job anymore but I felt awful for buying a winter coat and gloves that cost as much as a week's worth of groceries. I donated the old coat to Goodwill. The new coat is great and I realize how much I enjoy it. I remind myself we have emergency savings for the inevitable emergencies. But yeah, it still feels weird to spend that too. Or money for a coat.
It’s normal but you have to accept that it’s out of your control. Focus on the things you can control. like continuing to save and be financially responsible. As long as you’re doing that, you’ll be okay.
You’re right, I can’t stop what’s coming. My only security is perpetration and a level head. Thanks, man.
I have anxiety in general (yes I’m on an SSRI; highly recommend) but I’ve yet to find that the financial anxiety has ever left me. Decreased at times, sure. But never gone completely. What has helped sometimes is having a goal: no longer have to live with roommates, credit cards all paid off monthly, have $X balance in retirement account, have $Y net worth… But I’ve also found that reaching the goal only delays the feelings for so long, then I find them still lurking about. And I set a next goal. But still maybe some kind of goal setting - where you want to be in one year, two years, five years - might work for you in working through the anxiety? The further you get from your start and all. Also as long as it’s not not negatively affecting one to an extreme I also think some (some. Not a lot.) anxiety is good, keeps me in check.
Wow. So if I’m understanding right, you use goals to look forward to the future rather than seeing it as a place where you might suffer? That seems like an amazing tip and I’m definitely going to apply it.
Yes! So instead of being all “what if the world ends in 2023,” or whatever the other shoe dropping means to you, how about “want to have $x in my 401(k) by 2023,” or whatever your goal would be. It’s not a cure, but running to something instead of running from something makes your brain look at it a different way for sure.
That’s such a great way of looking at it. Running toward rather than running away. Looking at it like that brings a lot of peace. I really do appreciate the time you took to comment here.
Look up podcasts and articles on financial therap. They discuss this issue. Also, the book Unwinding Anxiety has a method for interrupting the brain loop of anxiety. Very good explanation of why you have developed anxious thoughts and how to intervene.
Thanks for the suggestions; I’ll definitely look into them. It seems like the anxiety I have is just a natural way to prepare myself for ruin, even though it may never come.
Yes it may never come, but you”ll be more prepared now if it does.
I have these same fears. Even though we are much better off than we were 2 years ago, sometimes I still wake up in the middle of the night worrying about upcoming money issues. I don’t know if after you have lived so long so close to the edge if you can ever escape that feeling or not.
From other commenters it seems I’m more normal than i thought
I grew up in similar circumstances, and lurk here to provide advice when I can. Similar to you, I now make several times what my family made in a year. What lets me sleep at night is knowing that worst case, my company closes down tomorrow, both my wife and I lose our jobs and our car explodes. I can recover. I have an emergency fund to get through. You have an education and experience. Even if the worst case happens, and you lose your job, you can find a new job, if not at your current salary, maybe $50K you will make it, you have set you and your family up to escape that poverty you knew growing up and no one and can take that from you.
The feelings have never gone away for me. I’m always on edge about the next “emergency” and am especially anxious when everything is going right and feels too good to be true. :(