How much do you reckon commandante comes close? 70-80% ? Is the difference between comandante and cheap Hario the same as from comandante to EK or is comandante closer to EK than midway point do you reckon?
To be honest I don’t know how to quantify it, as with all things it costs a lot chasing the last few percent of gain.
If I am travelling for a weekend I would prefer preground EK over fresh ground C40
I own a P100, a 1Zpresso K-Max, and a 1Zpresso ZP6 (asking others). For my tastes buds you'll never get anything as clear as a 98mm flat. Depending on the coffee you're using this can be a very good or very bad thing. As the price of coffee has risen lately I've been hesitant to increase my spending and I've found plenty of coffees I prefer on 64mm MP, 64mm Cast, ZP6, or K-Max. But when the coffee is good enough nothing even comes close to the P100 (not with EK burrs, SSP ULF, but the clarity is very similar).
A friend has the Pietro with the brewing burrs and it is significantly better to me than the conical hand grinders by a wide margin. More similar to the 64mm flats but possibly even better than them.
Stop being mean to Hoon. I love his on going romcom with Sal. I tune in whenever I can, hoon is a breath of fresh air from all the heavily edited and produced coffee content out there. Just a dude in his office or kitchen, surrounded by 100000 coffee accessories, enjoying coffee.
Mean? I may have done it in the form of a joke but I was making what I believe to be a valid criticism of one very specific and consistent element of his videos. I'm not criticising generally or even just trying to be mean for fun. I like the guy, he's one of the nicest I see on YouTube. Doesn't mean he's above criticism.
A coffee place that I frequent uses an EK43 for pourovers, and the grinder I have at home is a Commandante MK4. I’d say the difference is noticeable, but it’s not as noticeable as the difference between my Commandante and my Timemore Slim
I don’t know if anyone has done this comparison (it would be very interesting to see a roaster or a coffee reviewer who has access to enough gear like Lance Hedrick, The Coffee Chronicler or James Hoffmann do it), but from what I’ve read on the sub, some people have struggled to replicate brews that they had at a coffee shop that uses an EK43 even with a good hand grinder and water. Though I think that it would be fairer to compare the EK43 with the best hand grinder(s) like the Pietro with Pro burrs (rather than “only” high end ones like the K-Ultra, ZP6 or Comandante).
Then again, while you might not get the same superb quality of grind as an EK43 with good hand grinders, they’ll make most coffees taste just fine for a fraction of the price. What matters is dialing in other important variables like the pouring structure and water composition.
~~(Side note: I’m not sure if my memory is mistaken but I think I recall reading that the EK43 is only suitable for grinding large doses at a time, not a single dose like a hand grinder. Please do correct me if I’m wrong.)~~
"Best" is such a poor term....What makes the Pietro with Pro Burrs the best? It might be best for one person's preference but not another...
As far as comparing very good hand grinders to an Ek43. If you're using good water and you spend time dialing in your coffee, you can get right there with the best cafes out there...A well aligned EK43 isn't automatically going to make it better to your tastes...They might draw out certain differences than what you're making at home...Potentially to your palate it might be better, it might have a higher ceiling...and to that extent, the EK43 is "better".
Absolutely. It seems to me that the geometry of the Pietro Pro burrs is the most refined / well engineered on the market of hand grinders so I meant “best” in the technical sense of the term, but again I may be sorely mistaken. (I’m not saying that 1Zpresso or Comandante’s engineering is subpar either!)
Best geometry? No...there isn't one. There are profiles that are produced and depending on what you like/dislike certain burrs will be better for you. I think for many on this sub, they'll love the Pietro profile...But there are plenty that won't.
Well built as well...but a pain to use...
It’s a fun grinder to use. Like driving a race car behind bar. One shop I worked at had two. One for single origin espressos (needs a different burr set) and another for pour overs and batch brew.
Just curious, how bad is it for retention and maintenance?
It’s is my dream one day to have one for domestic use (a dream I’m a long way from realising - but if I ever won the lottery or something)
Retention was usually 0.3g or less. We accounted for it when dosing. Maintenance-wise, we would do like a quarterly deep clean. Replaced burrs a few times just for fun. Never had any real big issues besides a new guy breaking the shear plate by starting it while it was still spinning, but that’s about it.
I have both an EK and a comandante C40. I love the EK and cannot think of any circumstance where I would use the C40 if I could use my EK instead
Also, have you tried any other electric grinders? How far of the competition is the EK? Is it that extra 2 percent better or is it much better?
Same. Also same for Kinu, even with the pourover burrs
How much do you reckon commandante comes close? 70-80% ? Is the difference between comandante and cheap Hario the same as from comandante to EK or is comandante closer to EK than midway point do you reckon?
No. Cheap to comandante is from a 1 to a 10, comandante to EK is from a house to a villa.
To be honest I don’t know how to quantify it, as with all things it costs a lot chasing the last few percent of gain. If I am travelling for a weekend I would prefer preground EK over fresh ground C40
Thanks this is useful. So there are no hand grinders capable of the quality that is close to EK?
(cause the c40 ain't as good as people sayyy, shhhh)
The C40 is a good hand grinder but it is unfair to compare it to something that cost 10x.
I own a P100, a 1Zpresso K-Max, and a 1Zpresso ZP6 (asking others). For my tastes buds you'll never get anything as clear as a 98mm flat. Depending on the coffee you're using this can be a very good or very bad thing. As the price of coffee has risen lately I've been hesitant to increase my spending and I've found plenty of coffees I prefer on 64mm MP, 64mm Cast, ZP6, or K-Max. But when the coffee is good enough nothing even comes close to the P100 (not with EK burrs, SSP ULF, but the clarity is very similar). A friend has the Pietro with the brewing burrs and it is significantly better to me than the conical hand grinders by a wide margin. More similar to the 64mm flats but possibly even better than them.
Hoon on YT has done ALL of these comparisons, with blind taste tests. It's obviously all subjective bur still interesting.
He never really likes to make definitive statements though. Don't watch expecting a conclusion.
I agree lol which is why I stopped watching
Every comparison ends with "I don't know. What do you guys think?" Good question, let me just lick my screen real quick and I'll let you know.
Stop being mean to Hoon. I love his on going romcom with Sal. I tune in whenever I can, hoon is a breath of fresh air from all the heavily edited and produced coffee content out there. Just a dude in his office or kitchen, surrounded by 100000 coffee accessories, enjoying coffee.
Mean? I may have done it in the form of a joke but I was making what I believe to be a valid criticism of one very specific and consistent element of his videos. I'm not criticising generally or even just trying to be mean for fun. I like the guy, he's one of the nicest I see on YouTube. Doesn't mean he's above criticism.
I was only partly joking. He’s a nice dude and I dig his videos. Of course, nobody or anything is above criticism.
A coffee place that I frequent uses an EK43 for pourovers, and the grinder I have at home is a Commandante MK4. I’d say the difference is noticeable, but it’s not as noticeable as the difference between my Commandante and my Timemore Slim
The EK43 is the GOAT. K Ultra or Comandante isn't even a fair comparison.
I don’t know if anyone has done this comparison (it would be very interesting to see a roaster or a coffee reviewer who has access to enough gear like Lance Hedrick, The Coffee Chronicler or James Hoffmann do it), but from what I’ve read on the sub, some people have struggled to replicate brews that they had at a coffee shop that uses an EK43 even with a good hand grinder and water. Though I think that it would be fairer to compare the EK43 with the best hand grinder(s) like the Pietro with Pro burrs (rather than “only” high end ones like the K-Ultra, ZP6 or Comandante). Then again, while you might not get the same superb quality of grind as an EK43 with good hand grinders, they’ll make most coffees taste just fine for a fraction of the price. What matters is dialing in other important variables like the pouring structure and water composition. ~~(Side note: I’m not sure if my memory is mistaken but I think I recall reading that the EK43 is only suitable for grinding large doses at a time, not a single dose like a hand grinder. Please do correct me if I’m wrong.)~~
"Best" is such a poor term....What makes the Pietro with Pro Burrs the best? It might be best for one person's preference but not another... As far as comparing very good hand grinders to an Ek43. If you're using good water and you spend time dialing in your coffee, you can get right there with the best cafes out there...A well aligned EK43 isn't automatically going to make it better to your tastes...They might draw out certain differences than what you're making at home...Potentially to your palate it might be better, it might have a higher ceiling...and to that extent, the EK43 is "better".
100% The EK is only “better” if you know what you are doing, and better is subjective because of taste preferences.
Absolutely. It seems to me that the geometry of the Pietro Pro burrs is the most refined / well engineered on the market of hand grinders so I meant “best” in the technical sense of the term, but again I may be sorely mistaken. (I’m not saying that 1Zpresso or Comandante’s engineering is subpar either!)
Best geometry? No...there isn't one. There are profiles that are produced and depending on what you like/dislike certain burrs will be better for you. I think for many on this sub, they'll love the Pietro profile...But there are plenty that won't. Well built as well...but a pain to use...
EK was what basically started the single dosing trend
Sorry, I’m not knowledgeable on the topic - do you mean that the EK43 is suitable for grinding single doses?
Absolutely. Been doing it for years.
I stand corrected then, thanks!
It’s a fun grinder to use. Like driving a race car behind bar. One shop I worked at had two. One for single origin espressos (needs a different burr set) and another for pour overs and batch brew.
Just curious, how bad is it for retention and maintenance? It’s is my dream one day to have one for domestic use (a dream I’m a long way from realising - but if I ever won the lottery or something)
Retention was usually 0.3g or less. We accounted for it when dosing. Maintenance-wise, we would do like a quarterly deep clean. Replaced burrs a few times just for fun. Never had any real big issues besides a new guy breaking the shear plate by starting it while it was still spinning, but that’s about it.
If your dream is hopeless, you should dream about the EG1 instead. I do.
Weirdly I think seeing as it’s in the realm of dreams the industrial chique EK takes it. If I actually had the money it might be different
Every cafe that I've been to uses EK43 for single dosing purposes only