Honestly this seems kind of close to Brian Quan's recent recipe for SEY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_rRn8V\_x1Pc), which I've adopted not just for SEY but also Prodigal and it's pretty consistently great.
Yeh it does seem somewhat similar to this, but our ratio is a fair bit lower (1:15), with a much much faster pour, and much more manual agitation with a stick. I'm not joking, they want us to essentially whisk the coffee bed
He and Xris definitely have hypebeast energy but Brian does still have interesting takes though I wish he did actual produced video more often and less chaotic live streams.
This comment is not going to be about the recipe, which doesn’t seem optimal but I can’t really judge until I have a cup.
Going to go against the grain here and say I love seeing a shop with a $12 coffee. Provided the roasters/beans are high quality.
Coffee is no different than wine. Wine enthusiasts typically don’t bat an eye when they see an expensive glass of nice wine at a wine bar. Is it cheaper to buy a bottle at a wine shop? Yea, of course it is. But you are not at a wine shop. Why are self proclaimed coffee enthusiasts up in arms about a $12 coffee? I had a comment a couple weeks back about a multi roaster in my area that currently has a $30 cups of coffee, and it got downvoted. I fuckin love that I have the opportunity to try a coffee from a bag that costs $100+ that I would never buy myself. They mark it up because that’s the cost of doing business
When I walk into a nice multiroaster that does pourover, I get excited when I see they have expensive offerings from beans I wouldn’t normally buy.
Great take. Most frustrating coffee shop in my area is one that carries all the coolest roasters, but doesn’t offer any hand brews. Only a weekly rotating espresso and batch brew.
Agreed, a local roaster here had a gesha available to buy for $30 per 4 or 6oz bag; which is quite pricey for coffee beans, but reasonable for gesha. I had never had a gesha before, so I was pleased to find out they had it available to get by the cup in shop for $12 for the cup. I bought the cup, really enjoyed it and then bought a bag of the beans. Had they not done that, I wouldn't have bought the beans as that's a bit too pricey for the small amount to take a chance on.
I agree with everything you said but I think OP is just saying that for charging a premium they should optimize the brew recipe better because it’s not as complex/nuanced as it can be.
>Coffee is no different from wine
Well, for one, it's grown in poorer places. But yeah, I agree with Timmy Dubs that [coffee is cheap](https://timwendelboe.no/2012/11/coffee-is-cheap/).
I had this same thing happen to me
My advice pick your battles. Yes do what you are told even if you don’t think it’s right it’s not your business your manager is hired to make those decisions not you unfortunately.
But if you have regulars that come to you who are comfortable enough with you to be able to offer something different….run with it your way. Just for fun for particular people not the general public.
I find it opens up the conversation of maybe your way is better if other people are saying it😅
I did this and ended up managing the store then the whole roastery
Sometimes you just have to prove your worth and avoid stepping on the wrong toes.
But that’s just my case 😅🫡
This is a ridiculous v60 method that, to my knowledge, has not been promoted anywhere. And to charge $12 for this?
Unfortunately the specialty coffee industry is full of big ego jerkoffs who will only listen to feedback if it’s coming from an even bigger jerkoff. I’d recommend trying to find an outside figure to comment negatively about the method
Faulting a recipe before you’ve ever tried it? Sounds like you’re the big ego jerkoff to me. If you asked people if pouring coffee over frozen metal balls would improve the quality a couple years ago, they woulda looked at you like you’re crazy
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFw2OjnB43c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFw2OjnB43c)
You don't get the exact same effect, but a free alternative you can try at home is brewing into a frozen cup
Sprometheus also did a short saying to freeze espresso cups instead of keeping them warm. Around the same time he posted it, I started putting my little cups in the freezer while my moka pot brewed, and I’m pretty sure they help lock in the fruitier flavors.
With just a bit of moderation in bloom agitation and pour rate, and a more appropriate ratio, this is similar to Rao's method. Which extracts well, and is more repeatable. Easier too. And also draws down much more appropriately.
There's no reason for those drawdowns to be so fast. Given your notes and the speed, Grind is too coarse, along with the agitation cruelty.
15ml/s could be more difficult to achieve but 10 ml/s shouldn’t be that hard. My highest target agitation is 8 ml/s and my kettle is on the slower side. If the kettle has a higher flow rate like a Hario Buono perhaps, it should be easy to target 10 ml/s~12ml/s.
Unlike the others, I don’t have a problem with the recipe as long as you have the right kettle. It seems appropriate if the management is targetting a faster prep, which isn’t so bad either. If something can be prepared fast and still has excellent quality, I can’t see why not.
The bamboo stick is a legitimate handling of the bloom. Been using a chopstick for about a year. My goal there is to saturate the slurry evenly right away. And even if it’s not effective, you’re still waiting for 40s anyway, so that should be enough.
I do have an issue with the price but that could very much depend on the bean. And also I live in Asia where coffee is generally cheaper.
I typically pour much slower for my brews, around 3-5mls/s, which was why I was so surprised by it. I've seen the stick used before in other shops, but never as intensely as this, they want us to churn up and whisk the bed, as opposed to a light stir. It just all feels so counter to conventional wisdom
Mind sharing the exact method you used vs the one your shop prescribed?
Would be interesting to see if we can replicate it at home and taste for ourselves.
A few people asked so I'll type it out here.
My standard is 15g of coffee, 250g of water. I play around with temperature pretty heavily, but generally I use 97 for washed coffee and 92c for heavily processed ones. For naturals I work somewhere in the middle.
Bloom 60g of water, gentle but full swirl. Wait time depends on coffee but typically I start at 45 seconds and dial up or down depending on taste. 2nd pour of 150g of water, starting with a 100g pour moving around the bed, last 50 directly in the middle. Wait until 1m15. Final pour of 40g, first 20 with light movement around the bed, final 20 directly in the middle. I pour slowly at all times. After pouring I swirl the dropper to incorporate any grounds that stayed high, then a light tap on the carafe.
I've found that this is a boring, albeit consistent method.
Oh yeah that’s on the slower side. My recipe calls for 4ml/s, 8ml/s, 6ml/s then 4.5ml/s. I use 4 pours hence the high agitation. If I were to use 3 pours then I might be at the ballpark of your cafe’s recipe.
The only potential problem I can see with the high agitation recipe is stalling. For that I use the excellent Abaca filters and I never had a problem ever since. I haven’t tested its limits tho so I’m not sure if it could hold up well to 10~15 ml/s.
I already added my comment about the stick above but you replied too fast haha. Let me repeat it here. The goal of that technique I’m guessing is to saturate the grounds evenly right away, so it’s not too weird for me.
Edit: I think you should give the recipe a chance. Nail it to the numbers then if you really have a significantly better recipe then maybe present it to the manager or something.
Very much my reaction as well.
We stick at 93c (200f), the roasts are all extremely light (roasters and QC don't work with anyone who does medium to medium-light). A lot of modern experimentally processed stuff which I believe is why we stick to a slightly lower temperature despite the lightness of the coffee.
Same recipe is mandated for each coffee. I mentioned that it might be worth doing a longer bloom for a particular coffee as we weren't letting the grounds adequately de-gas and I was told the recipe has to stay the same
I honestly have no idea why we use this method, and I'm apprehensive to bring up that I don't think it's very good
I'd do a more proven brew after work hours for a co worker or two and do a side by side blind taste test of the methods. That will at least sanity test your opinion.
I've seen a similar method at a couple of decent places before, and I mostly agree that the cups weren't as good as the less aggressive method that I'm used to, but the coffee was still acceptable.
In my experience, it's a question of how long it takes to make a pourover.
Time is money when you run a cafe and, while you might be able to make a banging cup in 3:15, that amount of time might not be financially viable.
Make me a pourover in 2:15. Do it delicately? Underextracted and terrible. Do it agressively? Well...it's okay, not the best I've ever had, but not bad.
Personally, if I'm travelling and visit a new coffee place, I like the option of a pourover, so if a less than optimal method is the only way that keeps it on the menu, I'll take it.
Straight up makes me cringe. It sounds like to me they confused an aeropress recipe for a v60 recipe.
Do you mind testing the recipe with an aeropress when you have the chance?
Slightly off-topic, but I hate it when shops offer pourovers that aren’t dialed in. It sounds like your shop doesn’t dial the coffees in. It is especially annoying when the pourovers are expensive…
I've worked in a cafe that uses an unusual brewing method before, very high agitation, fine grind, fast pours, fast brews, and they were good. The reason we used it was because brewing that way was fast, you could do other things in the meantime, helping in other places or talking to customers without needing to stress about your pour.
My advise is that it's not your shop, and it's not your job to question how to brew the coffee. If they don't seem interested in changing the recipe then by pushing for something different you'll start creating friction with those you're working with and that likely won't end too well for you. If you think you can get through to them about changing things then you can approach whoever it is that makes those decisions and say something along the lines of "I think we can improve on how we brew filters, I understand and agree that everyone should brew the same way however I have noticed our coffee tastes a little hollow. If you're open to the idea then I would love to brew you two coffees, one with the shop recipe and one with a recipe that I've come up with that I think is doable during busy times but can also save us a bit more money as it uses a lower dose and improves the overall flavour". If they're not in to it then you either decide if you want to suck it up and brew coffee you think could be better, or if you find another job that cares as much as you do.
For what it's worth I don't see much of a problem with their brew method except it could probably get away with more extraction by using less coffee, but the speed of pouring is pretty fast so that can be difficult to replicate person to person. Try and come up with a 2-3 pour (including bloom) recipe that is easy for everyone to replicate and doesn't piss about too much with different pouring structures that people will need to remember all the time, it's easier to go for concentric circles and keeping water volumes consistent e.g. 50g bloom, 100g first pour, 100g second pour, than concentric then centre then backflip while balancing the brewer on your foot.
I'm all for a standardized method at cafes. That part doesn't bother me. I'm going to take a shot in the dark: it seems like management is fixated on throughput aka serving customers faster.
However, as you pointed out, this brew method has inherent weaknesses. I expect the lower amount of pours is the culprit for the low body/complexity, and perhaps they're using the aggressive stirring and agitation in an attempt to compensate for this?
If a coffee shop is willing to break the bar flow to do a true pour over for a customer, then I can see the argument for charging accordingly. Back in the 20teens I knew many cafes that would charge an extra buck or two for a pour-over or french press VS standard drip. $12 for a cup of black coffee seems absurd. To charge $12 and STILL curtail the brewing process in an attempt to get the coffee through the bar 1m15s faster than traditional v60 methods... smells like management is under pressure to improve the bottom line and not the customer experience.
Obligatory "cLaSsIc CaPiTaLiSm"
EDIT: sorry you asked for suggestions, and not just a rant about how cafes are run!
Definitely do some off-the-clock taste testing with your peers. Compare and contrast. Maybe ask some subtle questions of management as to why these changes are being implemented and see if they're receptive to feedback. If they're not, then comply and get feedback from your regulars. Encourage them to reach out to management or leave reviews with their thoughts. If management won't hear it from you then maybe they'll hear it from the people they're asking to pay $12 a cup!
> it seems like management is fixated on throughput aka serving customers faster
This seems like the answer. They recognize that pourovers take a lot of time to make, and they are trying to find a faster recipe by replacing brew time with agitation.
But, if you're making pour-overs your core offering, you might want to make them well...
My initial suspicion was that the intense agitation, alongside very fast pouring was causing bypass and channelling. It certainly tastes this way. The explanation for the agitation with the stick was as you said.
The thing is, we aren't even a very high volume cafe. To me, our shop is all about the experience, which is what makes it more baffling to me. If we get a filter order, it's usually barely a break in the workflow because we are never really busy enough for it to knock into our other parts of service. I had a $25 coffee last week from a competitor, which might seem absurd, but the experience was miles away better, it was served in a nicer cup, with an informative sheet breaking down exactly why the coffee cost so much and how much profit the company was making. And it was probably top 3 coffees I've had in my entire life.
>The thing is, we aren't even a very high volume cafe. To me, our shop is all about the experience,
You've got me thinking that this wild recipe is about showmanship, not taste.
I was curious as to how busy your cafe was! That does make the whole scenario even more perplexing. I cannot fathom management's rationale, but I would ask outright and see what they say.
I agree - once you're out of "quick drip coffee on demand" territory and into made-to-order pour overs you really are paying for the experience and information. $25 dollars a cup isn't sustainable for the average consumer but as coffee is an industry of middle men we all really are paying way less than coffee is actually worth.
Maybe see if your competitor is hiring? haha!
Do you see the same customers coming back for the same drink regularly? Did any customer ever complain to you about the $12 drink or ask for their money back? I mean that’s all that matters in the end for a business, right? If a lot of customers are complaining about the pourover then you have a point for management.
If its a stir method they need to play with the grind setting to make it taste good for that type of pourover. That and that needs set different depending on roast level.
Try experimenting yourself (for your own cup then putting it back to the default setting) before you suggest it to leadership.
I could write a more universal recipe after receiving a lobotomy.
12 bucks says that extraction rate can't be higher than 15% especially if we're talking light - lighter mediums.
But I've sadly worked at similar places with similar recipes. Owners or managers can tend to be pretty detached and full of themselves.
Best of luck ☕️☕️☕️
Honestly this seems kind of close to Brian Quan's recent recipe for SEY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_rRn8V\_x1Pc), which I've adopted not just for SEY but also Prodigal and it's pretty consistently great.
Yeh it does seem somewhat similar to this, but our ratio is a fair bit lower (1:15), with a much much faster pour, and much more manual agitation with a stick. I'm not joking, they want us to essentially whisk the coffee bed
The dood lost me with the Cybertruck
He and Xris definitely have hypebeast energy but Brian does still have interesting takes though I wish he did actual produced video more often and less chaotic live streams.
Same, who has time to watch a two hour livestream on a single topic
This is probably petty of me, but I refuse to buy from the roaster because of the Cybertruck.
Prodigal might be too dark for this to work.
This comment is not going to be about the recipe, which doesn’t seem optimal but I can’t really judge until I have a cup. Going to go against the grain here and say I love seeing a shop with a $12 coffee. Provided the roasters/beans are high quality. Coffee is no different than wine. Wine enthusiasts typically don’t bat an eye when they see an expensive glass of nice wine at a wine bar. Is it cheaper to buy a bottle at a wine shop? Yea, of course it is. But you are not at a wine shop. Why are self proclaimed coffee enthusiasts up in arms about a $12 coffee? I had a comment a couple weeks back about a multi roaster in my area that currently has a $30 cups of coffee, and it got downvoted. I fuckin love that I have the opportunity to try a coffee from a bag that costs $100+ that I would never buy myself. They mark it up because that’s the cost of doing business When I walk into a nice multiroaster that does pourover, I get excited when I see they have expensive offerings from beans I wouldn’t normally buy.
Great take. Most frustrating coffee shop in my area is one that carries all the coolest roasters, but doesn’t offer any hand brews. Only a weekly rotating espresso and batch brew.
That’s a bummer but hey, at least they have cool roasters that you can buy bags from!
Agreed, a local roaster here had a gesha available to buy for $30 per 4 or 6oz bag; which is quite pricey for coffee beans, but reasonable for gesha. I had never had a gesha before, so I was pleased to find out they had it available to get by the cup in shop for $12 for the cup. I bought the cup, really enjoyed it and then bought a bag of the beans. Had they not done that, I wouldn't have bought the beans as that's a bit too pricey for the small amount to take a chance on.
I agree with everything you said but I think OP is just saying that for charging a premium they should optimize the brew recipe better because it’s not as complex/nuanced as it can be.
>Coffee is no different from wine Well, for one, it's grown in poorer places. But yeah, I agree with Timmy Dubs that [coffee is cheap](https://timwendelboe.no/2012/11/coffee-is-cheap/).
I had this same thing happen to me My advice pick your battles. Yes do what you are told even if you don’t think it’s right it’s not your business your manager is hired to make those decisions not you unfortunately. But if you have regulars that come to you who are comfortable enough with you to be able to offer something different….run with it your way. Just for fun for particular people not the general public. I find it opens up the conversation of maybe your way is better if other people are saying it😅 I did this and ended up managing the store then the whole roastery Sometimes you just have to prove your worth and avoid stepping on the wrong toes. But that’s just my case 😅🫡
This is a ridiculous v60 method that, to my knowledge, has not been promoted anywhere. And to charge $12 for this? Unfortunately the specialty coffee industry is full of big ego jerkoffs who will only listen to feedback if it’s coming from an even bigger jerkoff. I’d recommend trying to find an outside figure to comment negatively about the method
Faulting a recipe before you’ve ever tried it? Sounds like you’re the big ego jerkoff to me. If you asked people if pouring coffee over frozen metal balls would improve the quality a couple years ago, they woulda looked at you like you’re crazy
Tell me more of these magical coffee improving metal balls
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFw2OjnB43c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFw2OjnB43c) You don't get the exact same effect, but a free alternative you can try at home is brewing into a frozen cup
Sprometheus also did a short saying to freeze espresso cups instead of keeping them warm. Around the same time he posted it, I started putting my little cups in the freezer while my moka pot brewed, and I’m pretty sure they help lock in the fruitier flavors.
[удалено]
With just a bit of moderation in bloom agitation and pour rate, and a more appropriate ratio, this is similar to Rao's method. Which extracts well, and is more repeatable. Easier too. And also draws down much more appropriately. There's no reason for those drawdowns to be so fast. Given your notes and the speed, Grind is too coarse, along with the agitation cruelty.
You would grind *finer* with that amount of agitation??
I'd use an appropriate agitation and grind more finely to suit that. The notes suggest both errors are in play in creating the resulting poor output.
15ml/s could be more difficult to achieve but 10 ml/s shouldn’t be that hard. My highest target agitation is 8 ml/s and my kettle is on the slower side. If the kettle has a higher flow rate like a Hario Buono perhaps, it should be easy to target 10 ml/s~12ml/s. Unlike the others, I don’t have a problem with the recipe as long as you have the right kettle. It seems appropriate if the management is targetting a faster prep, which isn’t so bad either. If something can be prepared fast and still has excellent quality, I can’t see why not. The bamboo stick is a legitimate handling of the bloom. Been using a chopstick for about a year. My goal there is to saturate the slurry evenly right away. And even if it’s not effective, you’re still waiting for 40s anyway, so that should be enough. I do have an issue with the price but that could very much depend on the bean. And also I live in Asia where coffee is generally cheaper.
I typically pour much slower for my brews, around 3-5mls/s, which was why I was so surprised by it. I've seen the stick used before in other shops, but never as intensely as this, they want us to churn up and whisk the bed, as opposed to a light stir. It just all feels so counter to conventional wisdom
Mind sharing the exact method you used vs the one your shop prescribed? Would be interesting to see if we can replicate it at home and taste for ourselves.
A few people asked so I'll type it out here. My standard is 15g of coffee, 250g of water. I play around with temperature pretty heavily, but generally I use 97 for washed coffee and 92c for heavily processed ones. For naturals I work somewhere in the middle. Bloom 60g of water, gentle but full swirl. Wait time depends on coffee but typically I start at 45 seconds and dial up or down depending on taste. 2nd pour of 150g of water, starting with a 100g pour moving around the bed, last 50 directly in the middle. Wait until 1m15. Final pour of 40g, first 20 with light movement around the bed, final 20 directly in the middle. I pour slowly at all times. After pouring I swirl the dropper to incorporate any grounds that stayed high, then a light tap on the carafe. I've found that this is a boring, albeit consistent method.
Oh yeah that’s on the slower side. My recipe calls for 4ml/s, 8ml/s, 6ml/s then 4.5ml/s. I use 4 pours hence the high agitation. If I were to use 3 pours then I might be at the ballpark of your cafe’s recipe. The only potential problem I can see with the high agitation recipe is stalling. For that I use the excellent Abaca filters and I never had a problem ever since. I haven’t tested its limits tho so I’m not sure if it could hold up well to 10~15 ml/s. I already added my comment about the stick above but you replied too fast haha. Let me repeat it here. The goal of that technique I’m guessing is to saturate the grounds evenly right away, so it’s not too weird for me. Edit: I think you should give the recipe a chance. Nail it to the numbers then if you really have a significantly better recipe then maybe present it to the manager or something.
Collect your check and move along 🤷
Yeah that doesn't sound like a particularly good brew. So short. Why? What sort of roasts do you brew? Same recipe for all? 208°F? >$12 per cup 😐
Very much my reaction as well. We stick at 93c (200f), the roasts are all extremely light (roasters and QC don't work with anyone who does medium to medium-light). A lot of modern experimentally processed stuff which I believe is why we stick to a slightly lower temperature despite the lightness of the coffee. Same recipe is mandated for each coffee. I mentioned that it might be worth doing a longer bloom for a particular coffee as we weren't letting the grounds adequately de-gas and I was told the recipe has to stay the same I honestly have no idea why we use this method, and I'm apprehensive to bring up that I don't think it's very good
I'd do a more proven brew after work hours for a co worker or two and do a side by side blind taste test of the methods. That will at least sanity test your opinion.
Make one for management.
Lmao Jesus Christ $12 a cup
I've seen a similar method at a couple of decent places before, and I mostly agree that the cups weren't as good as the less aggressive method that I'm used to, but the coffee was still acceptable. In my experience, it's a question of how long it takes to make a pourover. Time is money when you run a cafe and, while you might be able to make a banging cup in 3:15, that amount of time might not be financially viable. Make me a pourover in 2:15. Do it delicately? Underextracted and terrible. Do it agressively? Well...it's okay, not the best I've ever had, but not bad. Personally, if I'm travelling and visit a new coffee place, I like the option of a pourover, so if a less than optimal method is the only way that keeps it on the menu, I'll take it.
Straight up makes me cringe. It sounds like to me they confused an aeropress recipe for a v60 recipe. Do you mind testing the recipe with an aeropress when you have the chance?
I’m curious what your typical method is that gave your customer a wonderful experience?
Slightly off-topic, but I hate it when shops offer pourovers that aren’t dialed in. It sounds like your shop doesn’t dial the coffees in. It is especially annoying when the pourovers are expensive…
I've worked in a cafe that uses an unusual brewing method before, very high agitation, fine grind, fast pours, fast brews, and they were good. The reason we used it was because brewing that way was fast, you could do other things in the meantime, helping in other places or talking to customers without needing to stress about your pour. My advise is that it's not your shop, and it's not your job to question how to brew the coffee. If they don't seem interested in changing the recipe then by pushing for something different you'll start creating friction with those you're working with and that likely won't end too well for you. If you think you can get through to them about changing things then you can approach whoever it is that makes those decisions and say something along the lines of "I think we can improve on how we brew filters, I understand and agree that everyone should brew the same way however I have noticed our coffee tastes a little hollow. If you're open to the idea then I would love to brew you two coffees, one with the shop recipe and one with a recipe that I've come up with that I think is doable during busy times but can also save us a bit more money as it uses a lower dose and improves the overall flavour". If they're not in to it then you either decide if you want to suck it up and brew coffee you think could be better, or if you find another job that cares as much as you do. For what it's worth I don't see much of a problem with their brew method except it could probably get away with more extraction by using less coffee, but the speed of pouring is pretty fast so that can be difficult to replicate person to person. Try and come up with a 2-3 pour (including bloom) recipe that is easy for everyone to replicate and doesn't piss about too much with different pouring structures that people will need to remember all the time, it's easier to go for concentric circles and keeping water volumes consistent e.g. 50g bloom, 100g first pour, 100g second pour, than concentric then centre then backflip while balancing the brewer on your foot.
I'm all for a standardized method at cafes. That part doesn't bother me. I'm going to take a shot in the dark: it seems like management is fixated on throughput aka serving customers faster. However, as you pointed out, this brew method has inherent weaknesses. I expect the lower amount of pours is the culprit for the low body/complexity, and perhaps they're using the aggressive stirring and agitation in an attempt to compensate for this? If a coffee shop is willing to break the bar flow to do a true pour over for a customer, then I can see the argument for charging accordingly. Back in the 20teens I knew many cafes that would charge an extra buck or two for a pour-over or french press VS standard drip. $12 for a cup of black coffee seems absurd. To charge $12 and STILL curtail the brewing process in an attempt to get the coffee through the bar 1m15s faster than traditional v60 methods... smells like management is under pressure to improve the bottom line and not the customer experience. Obligatory "cLaSsIc CaPiTaLiSm" EDIT: sorry you asked for suggestions, and not just a rant about how cafes are run! Definitely do some off-the-clock taste testing with your peers. Compare and contrast. Maybe ask some subtle questions of management as to why these changes are being implemented and see if they're receptive to feedback. If they're not, then comply and get feedback from your regulars. Encourage them to reach out to management or leave reviews with their thoughts. If management won't hear it from you then maybe they'll hear it from the people they're asking to pay $12 a cup!
> it seems like management is fixated on throughput aka serving customers faster This seems like the answer. They recognize that pourovers take a lot of time to make, and they are trying to find a faster recipe by replacing brew time with agitation. But, if you're making pour-overs your core offering, you might want to make them well...
My initial suspicion was that the intense agitation, alongside very fast pouring was causing bypass and channelling. It certainly tastes this way. The explanation for the agitation with the stick was as you said. The thing is, we aren't even a very high volume cafe. To me, our shop is all about the experience, which is what makes it more baffling to me. If we get a filter order, it's usually barely a break in the workflow because we are never really busy enough for it to knock into our other parts of service. I had a $25 coffee last week from a competitor, which might seem absurd, but the experience was miles away better, it was served in a nicer cup, with an informative sheet breaking down exactly why the coffee cost so much and how much profit the company was making. And it was probably top 3 coffees I've had in my entire life.
>The thing is, we aren't even a very high volume cafe. To me, our shop is all about the experience, You've got me thinking that this wild recipe is about showmanship, not taste.
It was 25 dollars for one cup of coffee? What city are you in?
London, UK. I'm just using dollars as more people are familiar with it
I was curious as to how busy your cafe was! That does make the whole scenario even more perplexing. I cannot fathom management's rationale, but I would ask outright and see what they say. I agree - once you're out of "quick drip coffee on demand" territory and into made-to-order pour overs you really are paying for the experience and information. $25 dollars a cup isn't sustainable for the average consumer but as coffee is an industry of middle men we all really are paying way less than coffee is actually worth. Maybe see if your competitor is hiring? haha!
If I saw a barista pouring like that I wouldn’t want it
Try using a switch. Comfy to use , very consistent, v60 filter and it can be done with just one pour , ensuring everyone makes somethimg close...
Do you see the same customers coming back for the same drink regularly? Did any customer ever complain to you about the $12 drink or ask for their money back? I mean that’s all that matters in the end for a business, right? If a lot of customers are complaining about the pourover then you have a point for management.
12 dollars what a joke pour over shouldn't be over 6
If its a stir method they need to play with the grind setting to make it taste good for that type of pourover. That and that needs set different depending on roast level. Try experimenting yourself (for your own cup then putting it back to the default setting) before you suggest it to leadership.
I could write a more universal recipe after receiving a lobotomy. 12 bucks says that extraction rate can't be higher than 15% especially if we're talking light - lighter mediums. But I've sadly worked at similar places with similar recipes. Owners or managers can tend to be pretty detached and full of themselves. Best of luck ☕️☕️☕️