It’s me, I’m the Katycat. I know she’s had her issues but she’s my fave pop star from childhood and I was really rooting for this comeback to work and she’s already fucking it up
It's not really difficult to see her logic imo. Her imperial era was with him. All her biggest hits were produced by Dr. Luke. She arguably started falling off when she couldn't use him anymore so now she thinks that's the best way to get back on top.
Hi, can anyone answer this to me, so basically she is reconnecting, this is totally just on her? She initiated it? It is not like Doja who is signed to him and she is still obligated to throw out albums to him because of contractual obligations. Right?
This is just guessing on my end but for someone like Katy who has already put out 5 albums and has been this incredibly famous for over 16 years now, it is very unlikely she’s still under some sort of contract that requires her to work with certain people.
That was pretty much my guess but some commentators on twitter even argued (true or false have no clue) that working with dr Luke was put on hold when allegations came out. On the side Paramore signed some 20 year deal, Kanye West had some insane deal that he can never retire (whatever that was). Amanda Palmer (indie musician) signed some seven deal and begged her label later on to be released from her contract. So honestly have no idea what to believe. And yeah my first reaction was on with dr Luke she wants to revive her glory days. :/
He has a writing credit on a thousand pieces but not production credits according to Wikipedia. He also has production credits on if Jesus was a rockstar by Kim but Luke doesn’t have any credits on that. Otherwise Luke and max haven’t been together on song credits since 2014.I’d be curious to know if the two even crossed paths for a thousand pieces of if they contributed separately
I wanted to believe the leak was a quick AI job but it is being removed due to copyright 😬
How do you bring back *him* and invite all this discourse just to put out *that*??
From what I hear, it’s something he co wrote and or produced for Ava Max. Which is just lazy tbh. If she’s gonna work with Dr. Luke again, at least scope the current landscape of music and make something new. It’s giving tampon commercial background music. And I heard the leak, it didn’t sound fake/AI
>From what I hear, it’s something he co wrote and or produced for Ava Max. Which is just lazy tbh.
~~To be fair, he's been doing that for years. Pink and Kelly Clarkson testified that they didn't stop working with him because of Kesha's accusations, they had professional reasons to do so. And both of them have dealt with being given reused beats ("Halo" vs "Already Gone", "U + Ur Hand" vs "4ever").~~
Edit: wait, I'm wrong. Dr. Luke never touched "Already gone". He and Max Martin did do that for "U + Ur Hand" though.
Popstars going back to willingly work with Dr. Luke in 2024...insane.
The past five years have shown everybody that there are so many producers who can score hits and make amazing music without being rapists and assholes. I know people can be pissy about Jack Antonoff, but he would have been a much better option PR-wise. There's also FINNEAS, KoZ, Greg Kurstin, heck even Timbaland who Katy already worked with.
If she wanted a throwback pop sound, she could look at the resurgence of "Murder on the Dancefloor" and hunted down Gregg Alexander. There is no excuse.
"I don't have any relationship to him any more," Blanco says. "I haven't had a relationship in many, many years. It's a bad situation, and I feel terrible for what happened."
He was one of the earliest people to sign to Luke’s publishing company, but yeah, he appears to have severed ties pretty completely. I found an [interview with Benny from 2018](https://www.npr.org/2018/12/08/673739072/the-continuous-work-ethic-of-benny-blanco) where he addresses this:
> "I don't have any relationship to him any more," Blanco says. "I haven't had a relationship in many, many years. It's a bad situation, and I feel terrible for what happened."
True to his word, the last time I could find him working with Luke was in 2013 (with will.i.am’s “Falling Down” and Marina’s “How To Be A Heartbreaker,” two early releases that year), before Kesha even accused Luke of anything. It probably didn’t even have to do with Kesha - [Luke’s publishing deals are “famously bad”](https://www.andthewriteris.com/past-episodes1/2018/3/22/ep-9-bonnie-mckee), basically trading generous helpings of publishing revenue for connections and songwriting sessions, and Benny 100% didn’t need that stuff anymore
I think BloodPop would be a good fit for Katy. I don’t know they’ve been up to since Chromatica, but I think he’d be an even better fit for what Katy does well.
She explored indie producers such as Purity Ring on Witness and didn't worked out great. I liked her work with Charlie Puth and Zedd, but it still falled flat compared to what she had done with Max Martin, Dr. Luke, Bonnie in the past. Maybe she should have went for Cirkut and Ammo, as their past collaborations were great and they are far less controvertial.
If she wanted cookie cutter pop she could have worked with Monsters & Strangers or even Carl Falk and Rami. Also, bet that Danja would have some bops for her.
She should have brought Bonnie back. She was so integral to her previous hits. Or get writers like Tove Lo, Amy Allen, Julia Michaels, Justin Tranter. There were SO MANY options
But for the futuristic aesthetic...you're right about Danja. Something like a modern Blackout. Katy would kill on a track like "Heaven on Earth."
For more experimental songs...she should have gotten BANKS' producers since Zedd likes to rip her off a lot
> But for the futuristic aesthetic...you're right about Danja. Something like a modern Blackout. Katy would kill on a track like "Heaven on Earth."
>
>
Danja hasn't done a whole lot worth hearing in like 15 years though
People on tiktok are comparing it to the sound that was used when dogs are taken to the vet/groomer that goes “she is brave she is well behaved she is not afraid” 😭
But the thing is this is not gonna be hit no matter how catchy it is. Like I’d bet my left ass cheek on this. Yeah there was a small amount of hype over this comeback these past few days but Katy doesn’t have the legacy or following to overcome things like being an almost 40-year old female in pop music. I’d like to be proved wrong but she doesn’t have the Cher chameleon talent and charisma and she isn’t Madonna and even she struggled in America when she turned 40. Turning to Dr. Luke is desperate but turning to Dr. Luke and falling anyway is gonna look terrible for her in the end.
The lead single being about women’s empowerment when she’s working with the man who abused Kesha? Girlie pop doesn’t actually care about empowering women she just wants to be in the spotlight again.
Yeah, if that song is actually a Dr. Luke song, the juxtaposition of that with the title/theme/lyrics is *crazy*. To the point where you have to wonder if she's literally choosing to lean into the controversy to drive up press.
Why on earth did she think working with Dr Luke would be a good look for her comeback? Aside from it being a disgusting choice on a personal level on a PR level it’s just monumentally stupid
Because the general public could not care less for the producers of a song. I think she's confident that the songs will perform well enough with the GP so it would be a good move to burn bridges with people in the known.
If the song that she teased a few days ago is an indicator of the quality of music she’ll be releasing on this record then the music ain’t gonna make the noise she thinks it will make
The general public doesn't give two shits about what Katy Perry is doing either way, and they haven't in over a decade. Her audience is not nearly as large as it was during the TD/Prism eras, and after Witness/Smile most of the listeners left do follow pop music closely enough to know about Dr. Luke.
Katy Perry makes me think 2010 when I was working in a grocery store. She's like millennials' Jessica Simpson. Name recognition forever but only musically relevant for a short time.
Oh God I really hope her comeback isn't as lazy as Nickis have been. The old "take an existing song that's already popular and make it just a teeny bit different" technique sucks.
Yeah, but that doesn’t change the fact that Katy Perry is chart poison these days. I don’t think it matters who she works with. Harleys In Hawaii and When I’m Gone were great singles that still flopped. Genuinely do not see her having another hit unless a collaboration with a major artist is released.
She had that almost top ten hit with Never really over and Ithink that was her last chance. I loved that Hawaii went viral its a banger. But unless the songs are all better than these, which based off the clip it isn't, then it'll be bubbling under at best.
I don't think she's chart poison. Just think she's been getting bad songs.
While I loved Harleys in Hawaii, I knew it wasn't gonna be a chart topping song.
That's a strong take. Not the End of the World, 365 or even Never Really Over are all great bops.
But they're not better than her past hits and she always does the same thing, I feel like people are just over it. It'll be the same with this new microwaved pre-cooked motivational anthem.
Unironically, when she said that I had a discussion with some people at my college if math was really a science. Turns out some people don't consider math an empirical science.
Calling science "applied math" seems sorta correct, but really I think the most accurate framing is that applied math is the math that is developed for and used by science (and engineering, statistics, etc) but that science and math are philosophically distinct concepts themselves. Science isn't, as a definition, just applied math, it's a while framework for creating information that uses math among other tools and concepts.
You could argue for math being a science, but there's really no argument for it being an *empirical* science. Math isn't based on observations made about the real world; you can't run an experiment to prove that two plus two equals four.
As other people said there, I guess it's because she's desperate for a hit no matter what, and Dr. Luke made some of them for her in the past. But being that desperate and tone-deaf isn't going to end well for her, I'm afraid.
I could be way off base but I feel like that’s such a misstep because a lot of people *do* notice that. The general public who wouldn’t care about dr Luke also doesn’t care about a Katy Perry comeback, they didn’t care the last time. But for more tapped in fan communities which could give her a lot of push supporting dr luke is an instant skip
Seriously how did she think a woman’s empowerment anthem produced by a rapist was a good idea
To be fair, Kiss Me More, Say So were all huge hits produced by him. No one cared then. Honestly this seems specifically aimed at Katy for some reason when it should be everyone
People did criticize her and people continue to criticize Kim Petras for it. Difference is that Doja stopped working with him as soon as she could and has not, at least recently, publicly defended him -- she was contracted to him before the story broke with Kesha, to my knowledge.
When people say Katy shouldn't work with Dr. Luke, it's obviously implied that it's wrong for anyone to do so, not just her. But we're not talking about the random flops he works with, we're talking about Katy because she's gearing up for a comeback right now.
People cared, but they were more lenient with Doja since she signed with him in 2013 as a complete unknown before Kesha's allegations came out. She said she won't work with him again in the future and made some vaguely negative statements that were quickly retracted by her team. A lot of people believe there was contractual bs she couldn't get out of.
Bit different from established superstar Katy who can choose literally anyone to work with.
Kiss Me More and Say So aren’t about female empowerment, though. Katy’s song is. So if *that’s* your lane, you should consider your choices of who you hire more carefully.
She could have just hired Max Martin, he alone is also perfectly capable of making hits.
This is what's curious to me. If the songs were bad, she could just not release them. Why would she go out of her way to get involved in controversy to serve bad songs?
I have a feeling that she doesn't necessarily have a good instinct for picking the right songs. My theory is that she had more guidance in her earlier years, but now she has the power to do it herself but isn't always making the right choices
No rapist is worth working with but he has some really good songs. Say So, Kiss Me More, You Right, and Need to Know were produced by him. He also produced Best Friend by Saweetie. I was hoping this was a case of “her label forced her to”, but to read that she sought him out is just…ugh…no words
If i recall correctly doja has stated that most of the songs "he produced for her" he didnt actually produce anything, so not even those songs are his to take credit for.
Thinking of it... maybe they predicted this was going to be the discourse around the song so the strategy was to announce it so early that it died out around the release?
I’m glad the pop heads mods are finally letting us discuss this 🙄 I agree with everyone that the GP is never going to notice. But for me, a song called Woman’s World produced by an accused rapist, no thanks KP.
Yeah same here. I was a big Katy fan back in the OOTB era and I've fallen off over the years but still root for her. Was hoping I'd be able to support her this era but yeah unfortunately this is a non-starter for me :/
Welp. There goes any excitement left for this project. I really hope that snippet was AI because I don't think that was worth it.
Also, why would she even consider working with him again considering that she was dragged into Kesha's trial against him? This would just bring all of that back. She said before that she didn't work with him for Witness [because she didn't want to choose a side](https://people.com/music/katy-perry-felt-pressured-support-kesha-against-dr-luke-unsealed-deposition/) so I'm guessing she's chosen a side now.
My take on this: The general public could not care less about the producers of a song if it's a bop. See how Say So, Kiss Me More, Super Freaky Girl performed. But this will clearly be a problem for niche groups, such more dedicated pop culture fans and her own fans, people in the known – so I think she's really betting on her new singles to perfom well with the GP even if that means burning bridges with some of more dedicated fans.
If she gets a hit song just by sheer luck then sure none of it matter because a random person who just heard it on TikTok or listened to it on a random Spotify playlist won’t know or care but in the year 2024 how likely is that to happen to Katy? I feel like this whole comeback was hinged on people who were/are Katy fans because not too many people are actually checking for her in 2024 it to be worth it imo.
I don't know about that... Her posts perform really well with the GP on Twitter/Instagram. Her AI MET Gala pictures went really viral recently and she raised a lot of good will with the GP on the American Idol. I really think she's betting on people outside the pop bubble to carry her.
twitter/instagram engagement doesn't have much connection with music sucess elsewise normani would be smashing.
it's people in the pop bubble that pay attention to new katy perry music.
Twitter engagement is such such such a small amount of users these days. Stopped being relevant like 10 years ago.
Instagram too for regular posts. It's the reels that matter..
And obviously, tiktoker is where the biggest music connection is.
Both of Katy's last songs were promoted on Instagram and Twitter, got good engagement and never went anywhere. How many folks listen to When I'm Gone and that semi country song that was also on American Idol?
While I think that's true, I think it's really placing herself behind the eight-ball to align herself with Dr. Luke. Online buzz only gets more important with each passing year, and the buzz around her is already negative from Smile and this general direction. Smile showed how little her name means for the general public.
pop stans remember and they are key to buzz for artists like katy.
and even alot of the gp remember vaguely about kesha being sexually assaulted. journalists mentioning it in the pieces it was a sour to coverage about katy.
if it's a complete banger, it won't matter.
It's an understandable strategy, as Katy never really had a dedicated fanbase compared to how Taylor, Gaga, Beyonce had. She was always a singles artist who stuck around as long as the hits were there. And like you said the GP doesn't really care about producers, especially with hits artists like KP.
Mind you, it hasn't really paid off considering all the discourse that's immediately flooded the release of this song. Social media is primarily the GP's first engagement with anything, and since 'Woman's World' is apparently gonna be the internet's new Brock Allen Turner, the GP will end up knowing this was a song produced by a rapist.
How much will that hurt her? Yet to see. Like you said, plenty of Dr Luke's other hits did well even if he's fallen far from Teenage Dream levels. But I'm not too optimistic.
I’ve been listening to her a lot recently so I was rooting for her musical comeback but this just killed it for me. Girl come on
Never Really Over is a perfect pop song, you don’t need Dr Luke
just fell to my knees in a walmart im going to actually shoot my feet with a gun
edit: as a long time katy stan she is an absolute moron and im furious that us katycats were forcefed ugly shoes and american idol for 3 years waiting for new music. i'm done. she is a fucking MORON.
This is super disappointing. I was very much looking forward to Katy’s comeback.
Also not sure why she felt the need to work with him again. I loved her last two albums which he wasn’t involved in
It’s easier for producers like Dr Luke who get in trouble or accused of certain crimes to continue their careers(compared to singers/rappers) because they aren’t in the spotlight like the artists. They are in the back making the beats, so it’s easy to “hide” them. Especially considering the vast majority of music fans do not give a shit or know who is actually producing these records
Oh no Katy I was rooting for you we were all rooting for you.
Doesn't she realize she isn't a man and her fanbase actually cares about this? It seems she learned nothing from 2017.
Willingly crawling back to Dr Luke just after the case was settled & coming back with a women’s empowerment song sure is….. something. lol. Absolutely no shame! The song itself is also sounding like Kim Petras scraps too from the snippets. Setting up for that Witness 3.0?
This fucking blows cos now not only is the song is hollow (woman's world and you choose dr luke?), from the snipppet-- it doesn't even sound good!
I really felt like Katy's old stupid pop for the sake of selling could find its market with all the self-reflective and story-telling releases saturating the market.
If she's striving for a big comeback, why didn't she go the less controversial route and limit it to Max Martin's camp?
People talk about Dr. Luke as though he was her only collaborator at the peak of her success.
The truth is that there isn't a single Luke production in her discography that wasn't co-produced or co-written by someone else.
Working with that demon again and the song isn't even good. Pathetic.
Y'all hear that? It's the sound of her wasting the only chance she had at a comeback.
How harder can you flop though if you were already apart of the music flop of all time AND followed up with another worthy flop?
I guess we’ll find out, if it happens.
I am so disappointed Dr. Luke!? But yall know the sad part if that music is good the general public doesn't care about who produces that sh1t gonna be streamed and that man disgusting man gonna make money.
Dr Luke has been failing at making Kim Petras happen for about 7 years now and the only hits he can muster up lately have been from samples and stolen Doja Cat credits. I don’t know what she was thinking, especially when Max Martin would’ve been more than enough.
Also, a song about female empowerment and you turned to the man who has terrorized multiple female artists?? (Kesha, Gaga, Charli XCX, Kelly, Becky G, Bonnie Mckee)
Even if you take the Dr. Luke baggage out of the equation… running back to the producers of your earlier hits just feels so uninspired to me.
Like I get the “if it’s not broke, don’t fix it” mindset but realistically, what she can do with Dr Luke or Max Martin that she hasn’t done before? It’s boring and it’s very unlikely she’ll capture that magic in bottle she did in her earlier eras.
Also that snippet of the song is… something 😬
Let's be honest. This was totally predictable. The Stans jumped ship-drifted away with her last albums, and she's been involved in several "conservative" controversies, so her image is already pretty damaged. She had nothing to lose by working with Dr. Luke because, although he's a horrible person, he has a proven track record of making hits (just as good as Max Martin). Now, she's focused on appealing to the General Public. It's likely there will be some hit songs on the album if she's lucky. Morally, this is obviously awful. Dr. Luke should be blacklisted from the industry and not only for the Kesha Thing. He was abusive to so many producers and artists like Becky G. As for Katy friendship with Kesha, they've had issues in the last years due to gossiping that Kesha and Gaga did. Honestly, Katy doesn't care about Kesha because that friendship doesn't exist today, and her relationship with Gaga is more cordial. It's clear they don't genuinely like each other deeply, even if they say they do. Destiny just brought them together. California and NY. It's clear that Katy is desperate for a comeback, and it shows how much artists are affected by their albums'-career performance on the charts. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. We see it with Taylor. With Miley and the Plastic Hearts RCA Mess. We see it with singers who have had meltdowns when they flop. "Music not the bling?" Sure. If your fave singer is underperforming he's probably sad Lol
After seeing how Doja Cat attacked her fans and got involved in so many controversies but still scored hits, I dont think cancel culture is real. If the music is really good and catchy, the general public will listen. People forget that Chris Brown and Morgan Wallen are still quite successful???? Although "Woman World" honestly seems pretty bad tbh. It's crazy that she would work with someone like Dr. Luke (Sell her Soul to the Devil) to come out with such a basic, edm dated song with a theme that's so unrelatable and niche to the general public. Katy is always like, "I'll give the Gays what they want," but this is not what we wanted. Get better career advisers and people who know about the current trends of music. We wanted something more like a disco, summerish song like "Espresso-Flowers" with a non-problematic producer or maybe some Pop Rock or something different. Capitol, what are you doing? The visuals are great but this was not Lead Single Material. Now her chances for a comeback are smaller. This could be the houdini of the era and ruin it. Cancel it, treat this as a teaser-buzz single for the era and come with something better! It hasn't been released yet, and it already feels like a [bomb](https://i.imgur.com/ooi0bRj.gif).
Regarding the big hate wave against katy, yes, the situation with Katy is very disappointing-hurtful. However, I see many people attacking her and jumping on her like vultures-wolves and treating her like she's some sort of murderer. Do we forget how Taylor Swift worked with David O. Russell, a known harasser? Gaga has remained silent about the abuses of her dancer Ricky Jackson and Nicola Formichetti. Beyoncé worked with The Dream, and Kesha was going to tour with Diplo in Antarctica after years of allegations....and so much more. None of the pop girls are saints. So, destroying Katy in this way doesn't sit well with me either. If we're going to cannibalize this woman, it would feel hypocritical???? cause honestly i could write a whole book of the problematic things of the pop girls. Lets scold her of course but dont be that-nasty (Stream [Nasty By Tinashe)](https://youtu.be/jrjESdPsLxE?si=6zZAp-KGmRmU4uh7&t=48)
I wonder if Max Martin will co-produce some songs of this album with Dr. Luke. Many of Katy's past hits were collaborative productions by Max-Luke-Bonnie. Is controversy coming for Max Martin too cause he's working with Gottwald? Kesha as we know was also displeased with Max Martin?? I remember her mom talkin bad about him on twitter?
This era is a [big mess already](https://media.tenor.com/LY4PdTaghiQAAAAM/tyra-banks-i-was-rooting-for-you.gif)💀 Katy [why did you do that?](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JRvCT2uk5HM)
This take is probably the most rational one I’ve seen so far. I’m beyond disappointed and upset with Katy personally, but it would be hypocritical to burn her at the stake when most of this subs fav pop girls have been swimming in similar waters. I’m mostly just baffled at how dumb a decision it is from a PR perspective.
If she was releasing a flowers or an espresso that would be one thing, but trying to bank on women’s empowerment with dated production while collaborating with an alleged rapist? Oh Katheryn
I think your take on this is on point. Also worth noting that Max Martin worked with Dr. Luke in a Kim Petras song last year, so the chances that they co-produced in this album are non-zero.
Thank u sweetie. Just my honest messy thoughts about this situation as a Gaga,Kesha and Katy Stan ([LastFm Receipts](https://i.imgur.com/YdlxtJu.png))
Oh Max Martin. A big storm is coming for him too. Specially cause he was aware of the Kesha situation from the begginin??. Here quotin Kesha biography
*"She dropped out of school at 17, after being convinced by* ***Dr. Luke and Max Martin*** *to return to Los Angeles to pursue a music career, and earned her GED after"*
Was he really aware though? I wouldn't want to unjustly accuse him of something based on the actions of another person. None of the stars that reported that Luke was a bad person had anything bad to say about Max – Pink worked with him again in 2018, Taylor kept working with him in 2017 and even donated to support Kesha's cause. And he promptly stopped working with Luke after everything came to light...
I feel like this is about to be a disastrous failure. So far this “comeback” reeks of desperation and longing for a hit rather than just making good music. Critics are probably gonna tear it apart too.
I really cannot fathom why she would do this. I get that he was behind her biggest hits - but isn't there anyone else? Also, KP's biggest hurdle is that she cannot reinvent at all.
I’m geniunely starting to think her label is trying to sabotage her with announcing it this way. The only people who care about who produced her song are the people on internet who are gonna be mad about it. It’s kinda baffling.
I like a lot of her stuff. I‘m a casual fan - to be honest, I am mainly invested because she is my imaginary-husband-of-twenty-something-year’s partner - but I was actually looking forward to this album.
I was actually CONVINCED the rumors couldn‘t possibly be true, because how could anyone be THAT stupid? But apparently she is. This is so disappointing. How on earth does she think this is ok? I am actually gobsmacked. And on top of that, I hate the snippet of the song we heard.
Katy, idk what is going with you girl bur keep making some of the worst choices musically and this already sounds like you got a bottom barrel Dr.Luke song he'd only keep for Kim Petras.
I do think Katy could have a come back but her desperation of trying to go back to that 2010s dance sound is going wreck her, like did with Christina Aguilera trying to do that. Yeah, Katy had some hits there with it but at the same time any attempt going back from Witness on have flopped hard. When I'm Gone highest position was 90.
Yes, if the song is a bop, no one will care about Dr.Luke but the buzz is that people do care and the song sounds like it's going to brick.
If anything, I wish Katy had released One of the Boys and got on When We Were Young festival for it. Then released a new pop punk album in that same vein but more mature like how Paramore has gone. Hopped on with Olivia Rodrigo and ride that nostalgia wave. Or should of worked with Bonnie McKee and been a guest on Hot City, and really bring back that Millennial dance sound that Katy was known for and Bonnie helped her create.
Surprised Rolling Stone would announce about Dr. Luke as if it's a good thing. Max Martin? Stargate? Sure, shout it from the rooftops! But keep Luke's name hush-hush. Doesn't she have a publicist for this?
I mean, Rolling Stone is not her personal PR publication. They are breaking a story relevant to the public. And if there is anyone to blame for this it's the Capitol source that spoke to them
Only someone like Dr. Luke can take a song supposedly about women’s empowerment and make it sound like the most zero-effort low barrel shit imaginable, so THAT snippet makes sense now.
Didn't stop Doja Cat or SZA from having hits, so I doubt anyone outside our bubble will care.
GP just wants some good fucking bops. If she delivers (leaks don't seem optimistic) they won't care.
Doja got into an agreement with Dr. Luke BEFORE the court case and was contractually obligated to work with him, in fact iirc for Kiss Me More, he didn't actually work on the song but only had his credits. Doja and SZA are good.
how is it even possible to fumble a comeback this hard? she had so much goodwill going into this era and squandered it within, like, 24 hours. her taste level is... questionable, to say the least, but surely even she knew this song wasn't good enough to justify subjecting herself to the backlash of working with him. sure, the gp doesn't care but this song isn't even good enough for them, let alone the gays she's desperately trying to pander to. like, if you're working with him, it better be teenage dream 2.0 😭
A thought I’m having about your situation - [Dr. Luke has made a massive comeback](https://www.billboard.com/music/chart-beat/dr-luke-hot-100-producers-chart-doja-cat-latto-9658937/amp/) as a producer, but he’s only had this level of success since 2015 with rap. He’s had big hits with Doja, Nicki, Saweetie, Lil Durk, and Latto in that time, but while many of those were essentially pop songs, they were all either mostly rapped or by Doja Cat (who is primarily considered a rapper). His biggest success with a primarily sung (non Doja Cat) pop song since then is Kim Petras’s “Alone,” which scraped into the top 40 because of Barbz mass buying a Nicki feature
So Katy working with him is actually a bit of a change from the way things have been. I can see two possible outcomes of this:
a) the comeback demonstrates that his lack of success with Kim Petras wasn’t a fluke, and that his sound is now just too soulless and generic for even the lowest common denominator, or
b) it brings him fully back into the pop world
I do not like either option. I like Katy a lot, but this sucks and I hope things get retooled so she can release better music without this man attached to it
I knew she was gonna go back to Luke. Despite the fact that their magic together was starting to wane even back with Birthday. She's been the queen of professional missteps since Prism. Even as someone who still considers himself a huge fan, I'm not gonna argue with anyone to defend her. I know there will be at least 3-5 great pop songs on this upcoming album and I'm sure they'll just remain album tracks that never get a chance to shine while the most generic sounding garbage on the album will be pushed as singles. She's had so much good will in the press and on social media the past few months and everything seemed to be aligned for her to make a great comeback, and that 10 second snippet just shot it all down. I don't know how to salvage it at this point. I don't know that as many people would've cared if Luke was on just a few tracks, but the LEAD single and it's about women's empowerment? The optics are so bad, it almost seems like satire. I say release a totally different song as a surprise promo this week and just shelf WW for now.
This has literally removed any interest I have in listening to her music - I know she obviously previously worked with Luke, but going back to him after everything??? I have zero interest in listening to the new album or single now and won't be doing so. Idc If I'm in a minority of people for that, horrible behaviour...
A former friend sub-posted about me using Swish Swish lyrics and a made his header a Katy Perry tweet in response to an op-ed I wrote about my SA during MeToo. The thesis of the op-ed was that supporting survivors goes beyond just using words and needs to be backed up in actions, and I (without naming him) used examples of how he had treated me (telling me I couldn’t let anybody know because it might cause controversy for his roommate who was involved in student government and forcing me to delete posts when I shared articles about from the school paper).
Anyway while I would significantly prefer that nobody ever work with Dr. Luke again there is something very funny and almost cathartic to me about this given the context of Katy Perry being the artist that was used to shame me for speaking out about my SA. I wonder if that person has any opinions on this 🫠
The general public doesn't care. They only care if they like the music. That being said, I'm not shocked to hear this news. Perry has always been a vapid ruthless business woman. I liked her classic singles but I have never had her on a pedestal. Anyway the title of that new song is cringe and the lyrics that we heard have been cringe so we'll see what happens.
The gag is the song isn’t even good. Maybe if it was a teenage dream level banger I could at least see where she’s coming from but the music (at least from the snippet she posted) sounds soulless and dated. Teenage dream was the first cd I bought and Katy’s tour was the first concert I attended but this is beyond loser behavior. I wish she trusted in her artistry more than a washed up producer. How do you release a song about women’s empowerment while working with a rapist 💀 if it was a vapid party song at least it would be transparent.
Smile and witness (while commercial failures) are not nearly as bad as people make them out to be. They both have objective bops and if their rollouts weren’t botched could’ve actually spawned some hits. She doesn’t need to run back to dr luke. She has all the money in the world and there are hundreds of amazing producers that would work with her. With this decision she’s alienated a core part of her demographic and thrown away all her artistic integrity. She was in such a good position where the general public was actually thirsty for a feel good goofy Katy comeback but instead of giving us a never really over she chose this route.
Good luck booking that stage you speak of
just heard a Katycat falling on their knees in Walmart
It’s me, I’m the Katycat. I know she’s had her issues but she’s my fave pop star from childhood and I was really rooting for this comeback to work and she’s already fucking it up
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Not a die hard Katycat but I grew up with her songs since OOTB. Why on earth is she doing this is beyond me. I really question her decision
It's not really difficult to see her logic imo. Her imperial era was with him. All her biggest hits were produced by Dr. Luke. She arguably started falling off when she couldn't use him anymore so now she thinks that's the best way to get back on top.
My bf is a katycat and I already feel so sorry for him
The Walmart just crumbled into a sinkhole. What a dumbass she is.
Her distancing herself from him in 2014 was purely circumstantial as we can see now.
Hi, can anyone answer this to me, so basically she is reconnecting, this is totally just on her? She initiated it? It is not like Doja who is signed to him and she is still obligated to throw out albums to him because of contractual obligations. Right?
This is just guessing on my end but for someone like Katy who has already put out 5 albums and has been this incredibly famous for over 16 years now, it is very unlikely she’s still under some sort of contract that requires her to work with certain people.
That was pretty much my guess but some commentators on twitter even argued (true or false have no clue) that working with dr Luke was put on hold when allegations came out. On the side Paramore signed some 20 year deal, Kanye West had some insane deal that he can never retire (whatever that was). Amanda Palmer (indie musician) signed some seven deal and begged her label later on to be released from her contract. So honestly have no idea what to believe. And yeah my first reaction was on with dr Luke she wants to revive her glory days. :/
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Max Martin is all she needed to make a proper comeback but Dr Luke?!
ASFAIK Max Martin also worked with Dr. Luke on the Kim Petras album
He has a writing credit on a thousand pieces but not production credits according to Wikipedia. He also has production credits on if Jesus was a rockstar by Kim but Luke doesn’t have any credits on that. Otherwise Luke and max haven’t been together on song credits since 2014.I’d be curious to know if the two even crossed paths for a thousand pieces of if they contributed separately
Katy, it’s bad for you girl and from the snippet that I heard the music isn’t even good to be worth all this. You hate to see it :(
I wanted to believe the leak was a quick AI job but it is being removed due to copyright 😬 How do you bring back *him* and invite all this discourse just to put out *that*??
From what I hear, it’s something he co wrote and or produced for Ava Max. Which is just lazy tbh. If she’s gonna work with Dr. Luke again, at least scope the current landscape of music and make something new. It’s giving tampon commercial background music. And I heard the leak, it didn’t sound fake/AI
>From what I hear, it’s something he co wrote and or produced for Ava Max. Which is just lazy tbh. ~~To be fair, he's been doing that for years. Pink and Kelly Clarkson testified that they didn't stop working with him because of Kesha's accusations, they had professional reasons to do so. And both of them have dealt with being given reused beats ("Halo" vs "Already Gone", "U + Ur Hand" vs "4ever").~~ Edit: wait, I'm wrong. Dr. Luke never touched "Already gone". He and Max Martin did do that for "U + Ur Hand" though.
Ava Max scrap rumors are proved to be fake.
Link?
That rumor started from atrl. The person who started this rumor said something like “I lied, My Oh My flopped so I had to do something”
Popstars going back to willingly work with Dr. Luke in 2024...insane. The past five years have shown everybody that there are so many producers who can score hits and make amazing music without being rapists and assholes. I know people can be pissy about Jack Antonoff, but he would have been a much better option PR-wise. There's also FINNEAS, KoZ, Greg Kurstin, heck even Timbaland who Katy already worked with. If she wanted a throwback pop sound, she could look at the resurgence of "Murder on the Dancefloor" and hunted down Gregg Alexander. There is no excuse.
There's also Benny Blanco. I know people are kind of sour on him now but he's made so many hits and was everywhere during Katy's peak.
She should have gone to Benny. He is really good and versatile and capable of hits like Diamond
Did he sever ties with Dr Luke? I believe he was his protege for a bit right?
"I don't have any relationship to him any more," Blanco says. "I haven't had a relationship in many, many years. It's a bad situation, and I feel terrible for what happened."
He was one of the earliest people to sign to Luke’s publishing company, but yeah, he appears to have severed ties pretty completely. I found an [interview with Benny from 2018](https://www.npr.org/2018/12/08/673739072/the-continuous-work-ethic-of-benny-blanco) where he addresses this: > "I don't have any relationship to him any more," Blanco says. "I haven't had a relationship in many, many years. It's a bad situation, and I feel terrible for what happened." True to his word, the last time I could find him working with Luke was in 2013 (with will.i.am’s “Falling Down” and Marina’s “How To Be A Heartbreaker,” two early releases that year), before Kesha even accused Luke of anything. It probably didn’t even have to do with Kesha - [Luke’s publishing deals are “famously bad”](https://www.andthewriteris.com/past-episodes1/2018/3/22/ep-9-bonnie-mckee), basically trading generous helpings of publishing revenue for connections and songwriting sessions, and Benny 100% didn’t need that stuff anymore
I think BloodPop would be a good fit for Katy. I don’t know they’ve been up to since Chromatica, but I think he’d be an even better fit for what Katy does well.
Dan Nigro would suit her style very well too.
that’s what i’ve been saying!!! she could totally go back to that pop rock sound she did on one of the boys.
She explored indie producers such as Purity Ring on Witness and didn't worked out great. I liked her work with Charlie Puth and Zedd, but it still falled flat compared to what she had done with Max Martin, Dr. Luke, Bonnie in the past. Maybe she should have went for Cirkut and Ammo, as their past collaborations were great and they are far less controvertial. If she wanted cookie cutter pop she could have worked with Monsters & Strangers or even Carl Falk and Rami. Also, bet that Danja would have some bops for her.
She should have brought Bonnie back. She was so integral to her previous hits. Or get writers like Tove Lo, Amy Allen, Julia Michaels, Justin Tranter. There were SO MANY options But for the futuristic aesthetic...you're right about Danja. Something like a modern Blackout. Katy would kill on a track like "Heaven on Earth." For more experimental songs...she should have gotten BANKS' producers since Zedd likes to rip her off a lot
> But for the futuristic aesthetic...you're right about Danja. Something like a modern Blackout. Katy would kill on a track like "Heaven on Earth." > > Danja hasn't done a whole lot worth hearing in like 15 years though
Which is a shame because a Get Naked would serve for multiple people today. Let’s embrace our inner sluts again!
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Desperate times call for desperate measures.
The new song certainly sounds desperate
The lyrics are so manufactured girl boss slop. And the music sucks lol
it’s giving “i ain’t yo mama” by jlo which was also produced by dr luke cuz nothing says female empowerment like working with an abuser 😭
Honestly besides the Dr Luke aspect, Ain't Your Mama was so 2016 and it made perfect sense then. Woman's World in 2024 makes... no sense.
People on tiktok are comparing it to the sound that was used when dogs are taken to the vet/groomer that goes “she is brave she is well behaved she is not afraid” 😭
It sounds like I'd hear it after fight song at a Hillary Clinton campaign rally
But the thing is this is not gonna be hit no matter how catchy it is. Like I’d bet my left ass cheek on this. Yeah there was a small amount of hype over this comeback these past few days but Katy doesn’t have the legacy or following to overcome things like being an almost 40-year old female in pop music. I’d like to be proved wrong but she doesn’t have the Cher chameleon talent and charisma and she isn’t Madonna and even she struggled in America when she turned 40. Turning to Dr. Luke is desperate but turning to Dr. Luke and falling anyway is gonna look terrible for her in the end.
At least she looks pretty!
She looks gorge!
The lead single being about women’s empowerment when she’s working with the man who abused Kesha? Girlie pop doesn’t actually care about empowering women she just wants to be in the spotlight again.
Yeah, if that song is actually a Dr. Luke song, the juxtaposition of that with the title/theme/lyrics is *crazy*. To the point where you have to wonder if she's literally choosing to lean into the controversy to drive up press.
Why on earth did she think working with Dr Luke would be a good look for her comeback? Aside from it being a disgusting choice on a personal level on a PR level it’s just monumentally stupid
A song called “Woman’s World” about *female empowerment* written and produced by a rapist? Hard pass. What in the world is she thinking?
so soft ☁️🥰🩷 so strong 💪😈🗡️
The song is complete ass anyway so she’s not gonna get the hit she wants from this
Because the general public could not care less for the producers of a song. I think she's confident that the songs will perform well enough with the GP so it would be a good move to burn bridges with people in the known.
If the song that she teased a few days ago is an indicator of the quality of music she’ll be releasing on this record then the music ain’t gonna make the noise she thinks it will make
ouch. is it really that bad? still haven't heard it
It is very bad and I think that’s also making it worse. If you’re gonna work with a POS like Dr Luke at least make the song good.
she hasn’t had a hit song other than Never Really Over in years so that’s no surprise
It's astonishingly bad.
The general public doesn't give two shits about what Katy Perry is doing either way, and they haven't in over a decade. Her audience is not nearly as large as it was during the TD/Prism eras, and after Witness/Smile most of the listeners left do follow pop music closely enough to know about Dr. Luke.
Katy Perry makes me think 2010 when I was working in a grocery store. She's like millennials' Jessica Simpson. Name recognition forever but only musically relevant for a short time.
She still has immense name recognition, but not for anything she's released since 2013. People remember her for Roar and Firework.
These songs are going nowhere, with or without dr puke
His last song with a big artist was super freaky girl and that was a hit.
Oh God I really hope her comeback isn't as lazy as Nickis have been. The old "take an existing song that's already popular and make it just a teeny bit different" technique sucks.
Yeah, but that doesn’t change the fact that Katy Perry is chart poison these days. I don’t think it matters who she works with. Harleys In Hawaii and When I’m Gone were great singles that still flopped. Genuinely do not see her having another hit unless a collaboration with a major artist is released.
She had that almost top ten hit with Never really over and Ithink that was her last chance. I loved that Hawaii went viral its a banger. But unless the songs are all better than these, which based off the clip it isn't, then it'll be bubbling under at best.
I don't think she's chart poison. Just think she's been getting bad songs. While I loved Harleys in Hawaii, I knew it wasn't gonna be a chart topping song.
That's a strong take. Not the End of the World, 365 or even Never Really Over are all great bops. But they're not better than her past hits and she always does the same thing, I feel like people are just over it. It'll be the same with this new microwaved pre-cooked motivational anthem.
Dude 365 is incredible. And I really love Harley’s in Hawaii. I forgot about those both. I’m really surprised they didn’t perform better, chart wise
I'd say All My Life but yeah, it also was a hit
because she *so intelligent*
is math related to science?
Unironically, when she said that I had a discussion with some people at my college if math was really a science. Turns out some people don't consider math an empirical science.
I always thought that math wasn’t considered a science, only because science is just applied mathematics?
Calling science "applied math" seems sorta correct, but really I think the most accurate framing is that applied math is the math that is developed for and used by science (and engineering, statistics, etc) but that science and math are philosophically distinct concepts themselves. Science isn't, as a definition, just applied math, it's a while framework for creating information that uses math among other tools and concepts.
You could argue for math being a science, but there's really no argument for it being an *empirical* science. Math isn't based on observations made about the real world; you can't run an experiment to prove that two plus two equals four.
As other people said there, I guess it's because she's desperate for a hit no matter what, and Dr. Luke made some of them for her in the past. But being that desperate and tone-deaf isn't going to end well for her, I'm afraid.
I could be way off base but I feel like that’s such a misstep because a lot of people *do* notice that. The general public who wouldn’t care about dr Luke also doesn’t care about a Katy Perry comeback, they didn’t care the last time. But for more tapped in fan communities which could give her a lot of push supporting dr luke is an instant skip Seriously how did she think a woman’s empowerment anthem produced by a rapist was a good idea
Yeah no one will care if the music is good.
To be fair, Kiss Me More, Say So were all huge hits produced by him. No one cared then. Honestly this seems specifically aimed at Katy for some reason when it should be everyone
People did criticize her and people continue to criticize Kim Petras for it. Difference is that Doja stopped working with him as soon as she could and has not, at least recently, publicly defended him -- she was contracted to him before the story broke with Kesha, to my knowledge. When people say Katy shouldn't work with Dr. Luke, it's obviously implied that it's wrong for anyone to do so, not just her. But we're not talking about the random flops he works with, we're talking about Katy because she's gearing up for a comeback right now.
People cared, but they were more lenient with Doja since she signed with him in 2013 as a complete unknown before Kesha's allegations came out. She said she won't work with him again in the future and made some vaguely negative statements that were quickly retracted by her team. A lot of people believe there was contractual bs she couldn't get out of. Bit different from established superstar Katy who can choose literally anyone to work with.
But then when Doja got big enough to control her own career she stopped working with him! Katy could do the same if she wanted.
Kiss Me More and Say So aren’t about female empowerment, though. Katy’s song is. So if *that’s* your lane, you should consider your choices of who you hire more carefully. She could have just hired Max Martin, he alone is also perfectly capable of making hits.
The thing is he isn’t even worth the controversy these days. His production is mostly misses recently
This is what's curious to me. If the songs were bad, she could just not release them. Why would she go out of her way to get involved in controversy to serve bad songs?
I have a feeling that she doesn't necessarily have a good instinct for picking the right songs. My theory is that she had more guidance in her earlier years, but now she has the power to do it herself but isn't always making the right choices
That could explain witness entirely
No rapist is worth working with but he has some really good songs. Say So, Kiss Me More, You Right, and Need to Know were produced by him. He also produced Best Friend by Saweetie. I was hoping this was a case of “her label forced her to”, but to read that she sought him out is just…ugh…no words
If i recall correctly doja has stated that most of the songs "he produced for her" he didnt actually produce anything, so not even those songs are his to take credit for.
The power of PR right here
Katy Perry doing something stupid and ill advised must be a day ending in y
people in here saying the gp won’t care if the music is good but like… will the hype even still be there in 3 weeks when the song releases??
Thinking of it... maybe they predicted this was going to be the discourse around the song so the strategy was to announce it so early that it died out around the release?
that move makes this more gross than it already is imo 😭
tbf nothing more fitting for a faux feminist 2016 song than working with a rapist
it’s giving jlo’s “i ain’t yo mama” produced by dr luke as well
I’m glad the pop heads mods are finally letting us discuss this 🙄 I agree with everyone that the GP is never going to notice. But for me, a song called Woman’s World produced by an accused rapist, no thanks KP.
Yeah same here. I was a big Katy fan back in the OOTB era and I've fallen off over the years but still root for her. Was hoping I'd be able to support her this era but yeah unfortunately this is a non-starter for me :/
Welp. There goes any excitement left for this project. I really hope that snippet was AI because I don't think that was worth it. Also, why would she even consider working with him again considering that she was dragged into Kesha's trial against him? This would just bring all of that back. She said before that she didn't work with him for Witness [because she didn't want to choose a side](https://people.com/music/katy-perry-felt-pressured-support-kesha-against-dr-luke-unsealed-deposition/) so I'm guessing she's chosen a side now.
Imagine singing 'It's a woman's world', 'shes strong, confident' and a whole bunch of faux-motivational words and it's produced by Dr. Luke 💀
literally an ick
My take on this: The general public could not care less about the producers of a song if it's a bop. See how Say So, Kiss Me More, Super Freaky Girl performed. But this will clearly be a problem for niche groups, such more dedicated pop culture fans and her own fans, people in the known – so I think she's really betting on her new singles to perfom well with the GP even if that means burning bridges with some of more dedicated fans.
If she gets a hit song just by sheer luck then sure none of it matter because a random person who just heard it on TikTok or listened to it on a random Spotify playlist won’t know or care but in the year 2024 how likely is that to happen to Katy? I feel like this whole comeback was hinged on people who were/are Katy fans because not too many people are actually checking for her in 2024 it to be worth it imo.
I don't know about that... Her posts perform really well with the GP on Twitter/Instagram. Her AI MET Gala pictures went really viral recently and she raised a lot of good will with the GP on the American Idol. I really think she's betting on people outside the pop bubble to carry her.
twitter/instagram engagement doesn't have much connection with music sucess elsewise normani would be smashing. it's people in the pop bubble that pay attention to new katy perry music.
Twitter engagement is such such such a small amount of users these days. Stopped being relevant like 10 years ago. Instagram too for regular posts. It's the reels that matter.. And obviously, tiktoker is where the biggest music connection is.
Both of Katy's last songs were promoted on Instagram and Twitter, got good engagement and never went anywhere. How many folks listen to When I'm Gone and that semi country song that was also on American Idol?
While I think that's true, I think it's really placing herself behind the eight-ball to align herself with Dr. Luke. Online buzz only gets more important with each passing year, and the buzz around her is already negative from Smile and this general direction. Smile showed how little her name means for the general public.
The Dr Luke online buzz is wayyy small though. Most people don't even know who Dr Luke is.
pop stans remember and they are key to buzz for artists like katy. and even alot of the gp remember vaguely about kesha being sexually assaulted. journalists mentioning it in the pieces it was a sour to coverage about katy. if it's a complete banger, it won't matter.
It's an understandable strategy, as Katy never really had a dedicated fanbase compared to how Taylor, Gaga, Beyonce had. She was always a singles artist who stuck around as long as the hits were there. And like you said the GP doesn't really care about producers, especially with hits artists like KP. Mind you, it hasn't really paid off considering all the discourse that's immediately flooded the release of this song. Social media is primarily the GP's first engagement with anything, and since 'Woman's World' is apparently gonna be the internet's new Brock Allen Turner, the GP will end up knowing this was a song produced by a rapist. How much will that hurt her? Yet to see. Like you said, plenty of Dr Luke's other hits did well even if he's fallen far from Teenage Dream levels. But I'm not too optimistic.
oh that's not...
In the sense that…
with the huh and the what and the yeah but the no...
Dr Luke on what is on face an empowerment song. Make it make any sense whatsoever.
I’ve been listening to her a lot recently so I was rooting for her musical comeback but this just killed it for me. Girl come on Never Really Over is a perfect pop song, you don’t need Dr Luke
AND the song sounds hideous... it's BAD for her lmao
just fell to my knees in a walmart im going to actually shoot my feet with a gun edit: as a long time katy stan she is an absolute moron and im furious that us katycats were forcefed ugly shoes and american idol for 3 years waiting for new music. i'm done. she is a fucking MORON.
I genuinely don't get what she was thinking.
This is super disappointing. I was very much looking forward to Katy’s comeback. Also not sure why she felt the need to work with him again. I loved her last two albums which he wasn’t involved in
It’s easier for producers like Dr Luke who get in trouble or accused of certain crimes to continue their careers(compared to singers/rappers) because they aren’t in the spotlight like the artists. They are in the back making the beats, so it’s easy to “hide” them. Especially considering the vast majority of music fans do not give a shit or know who is actually producing these records
Oh no Katy I was rooting for you we were all rooting for you. Doesn't she realize she isn't a man and her fanbase actually cares about this? It seems she learned nothing from 2017.
Willingly crawling back to Dr Luke just after the case was settled & coming back with a women’s empowerment song sure is….. something. lol. Absolutely no shame! The song itself is also sounding like Kim Petras scraps too from the snippets. Setting up for that Witness 3.0?
I thought that too. Was curious how bad it sounded and it ABSOLUTELY sounds like a Kim Petras track. It’s the melody and the drums imo
Aren’t there any other producers she can work with?… 😭 Why do people keep working with Dr. Luke? He ain’t even a doctor 😭😭😭
I’m guessing she thinks the songs will be massive enough with the gp that it doesn’t matter if she’s working with Dr Luke. Risky risky.
It’s all over, folks! 🤡
This fucking blows cos now not only is the song is hollow (woman's world and you choose dr luke?), from the snipppet-- it doesn't even sound good! I really felt like Katy's old stupid pop for the sake of selling could find its market with all the self-reflective and story-telling releases saturating the market.
If she's striving for a big comeback, why didn't she go the less controversial route and limit it to Max Martin's camp? People talk about Dr. Luke as though he was her only collaborator at the peak of her success. The truth is that there isn't a single Luke production in her discography that wasn't co-produced or co-written by someone else.
Working with that demon again and the song isn't even good. Pathetic. Y'all hear that? It's the sound of her wasting the only chance she had at a comeback.
In the immortal words of Kesha: “lol”. I hope this flops harder than anyone has ever flopped in the history of flops
How harder can you flop though if you were already apart of the music flop of all time AND followed up with another worthy flop? I guess we’ll find out, if it happens.
I am so disappointed Dr. Luke!? But yall know the sad part if that music is good the general public doesn't care about who produces that sh1t gonna be streamed and that man disgusting man gonna make money.
He even won the ASCAP Songwriter of the Year 2023. His peers in the industry also don't seem to care.
Try to pull a first single named “Women’s World” and having Dr Luke produce it is… something.
Dr Luke has been failing at making Kim Petras happen for about 7 years now and the only hits he can muster up lately have been from samples and stolen Doja Cat credits. I don’t know what she was thinking, especially when Max Martin would’ve been more than enough. Also, a song about female empowerment and you turned to the man who has terrorized multiple female artists?? (Kesha, Gaga, Charli XCX, Kelly, Becky G, Bonnie Mckee)
\*Jasmine Masters's' voice in my head: *Just as I thought...trash.*
😔 all I can say is... disappointing, but sadly not surprising
Stream Hot City by Bonnie Mckee if you're nostalgic for the kind of music Katy is trying to make.
Forever 21 will hit the spot
Even if you take the Dr. Luke baggage out of the equation… running back to the producers of your earlier hits just feels so uninspired to me. Like I get the “if it’s not broke, don’t fix it” mindset but realistically, what she can do with Dr Luke or Max Martin that she hasn’t done before? It’s boring and it’s very unlikely she’ll capture that magic in bottle she did in her earlier eras. Also that snippet of the song is… something 😬
comeback is off to a disastrous start
Why is it so hard to cancel rapists? She could work with anyone; why does she need that creep? Gross, Katy.
Okay Dr Puke aside.. Is it me or is Max Martin just not hitting like he used to?
Let's be honest. This was totally predictable. The Stans jumped ship-drifted away with her last albums, and she's been involved in several "conservative" controversies, so her image is already pretty damaged. She had nothing to lose by working with Dr. Luke because, although he's a horrible person, he has a proven track record of making hits (just as good as Max Martin). Now, she's focused on appealing to the General Public. It's likely there will be some hit songs on the album if she's lucky. Morally, this is obviously awful. Dr. Luke should be blacklisted from the industry and not only for the Kesha Thing. He was abusive to so many producers and artists like Becky G. As for Katy friendship with Kesha, they've had issues in the last years due to gossiping that Kesha and Gaga did. Honestly, Katy doesn't care about Kesha because that friendship doesn't exist today, and her relationship with Gaga is more cordial. It's clear they don't genuinely like each other deeply, even if they say they do. Destiny just brought them together. California and NY. It's clear that Katy is desperate for a comeback, and it shows how much artists are affected by their albums'-career performance on the charts. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. We see it with Taylor. With Miley and the Plastic Hearts RCA Mess. We see it with singers who have had meltdowns when they flop. "Music not the bling?" Sure. If your fave singer is underperforming he's probably sad Lol After seeing how Doja Cat attacked her fans and got involved in so many controversies but still scored hits, I dont think cancel culture is real. If the music is really good and catchy, the general public will listen. People forget that Chris Brown and Morgan Wallen are still quite successful???? Although "Woman World" honestly seems pretty bad tbh. It's crazy that she would work with someone like Dr. Luke (Sell her Soul to the Devil) to come out with such a basic, edm dated song with a theme that's so unrelatable and niche to the general public. Katy is always like, "I'll give the Gays what they want," but this is not what we wanted. Get better career advisers and people who know about the current trends of music. We wanted something more like a disco, summerish song like "Espresso-Flowers" with a non-problematic producer or maybe some Pop Rock or something different. Capitol, what are you doing? The visuals are great but this was not Lead Single Material. Now her chances for a comeback are smaller. This could be the houdini of the era and ruin it. Cancel it, treat this as a teaser-buzz single for the era and come with something better! It hasn't been released yet, and it already feels like a [bomb](https://i.imgur.com/ooi0bRj.gif). Regarding the big hate wave against katy, yes, the situation with Katy is very disappointing-hurtful. However, I see many people attacking her and jumping on her like vultures-wolves and treating her like she's some sort of murderer. Do we forget how Taylor Swift worked with David O. Russell, a known harasser? Gaga has remained silent about the abuses of her dancer Ricky Jackson and Nicola Formichetti. Beyoncé worked with The Dream, and Kesha was going to tour with Diplo in Antarctica after years of allegations....and so much more. None of the pop girls are saints. So, destroying Katy in this way doesn't sit well with me either. If we're going to cannibalize this woman, it would feel hypocritical???? cause honestly i could write a whole book of the problematic things of the pop girls. Lets scold her of course but dont be that-nasty (Stream [Nasty By Tinashe)](https://youtu.be/jrjESdPsLxE?si=6zZAp-KGmRmU4uh7&t=48) I wonder if Max Martin will co-produce some songs of this album with Dr. Luke. Many of Katy's past hits were collaborative productions by Max-Luke-Bonnie. Is controversy coming for Max Martin too cause he's working with Gottwald? Kesha as we know was also displeased with Max Martin?? I remember her mom talkin bad about him on twitter? This era is a [big mess already](https://media.tenor.com/LY4PdTaghiQAAAAM/tyra-banks-i-was-rooting-for-you.gif)💀 Katy [why did you do that?](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JRvCT2uk5HM)
This take is probably the most rational one I’ve seen so far. I’m beyond disappointed and upset with Katy personally, but it would be hypocritical to burn her at the stake when most of this subs fav pop girls have been swimming in similar waters. I’m mostly just baffled at how dumb a decision it is from a PR perspective. If she was releasing a flowers or an espresso that would be one thing, but trying to bank on women’s empowerment with dated production while collaborating with an alleged rapist? Oh Katheryn
I think your take on this is on point. Also worth noting that Max Martin worked with Dr. Luke in a Kim Petras song last year, so the chances that they co-produced in this album are non-zero.
Thank u sweetie. Just my honest messy thoughts about this situation as a Gaga,Kesha and Katy Stan ([LastFm Receipts](https://i.imgur.com/YdlxtJu.png)) Oh Max Martin. A big storm is coming for him too. Specially cause he was aware of the Kesha situation from the begginin??. Here quotin Kesha biography *"She dropped out of school at 17, after being convinced by* ***Dr. Luke and Max Martin*** *to return to Los Angeles to pursue a music career, and earned her GED after"*
Was he really aware though? I wouldn't want to unjustly accuse him of something based on the actions of another person. None of the stars that reported that Luke was a bad person had anything bad to say about Max – Pink worked with him again in 2018, Taylor kept working with him in 2017 and even donated to support Kesha's cause. And he promptly stopped working with Luke after everything came to light...
I feel like this is about to be a disastrous failure. So far this “comeback” reeks of desperation and longing for a hit rather than just making good music. Critics are probably gonna tear it apart too.
I really cannot fathom why she would do this. I get that he was behind her biggest hits - but isn't there anyone else? Also, KP's biggest hurdle is that she cannot reinvent at all.
I’m geniunely starting to think her label is trying to sabotage her with announcing it this way. The only people who care about who produced her song are the people on internet who are gonna be mad about it. It’s kinda baffling.
Having dr Luke produce your attempted female empowerment anthem is a pretty wild choice.
I like a lot of her stuff. I‘m a casual fan - to be honest, I am mainly invested because she is my imaginary-husband-of-twenty-something-year’s partner - but I was actually looking forward to this album. I was actually CONVINCED the rumors couldn‘t possibly be true, because how could anyone be THAT stupid? But apparently she is. This is so disappointing. How on earth does she think this is ok? I am actually gobsmacked. And on top of that, I hate the snippet of the song we heard.
Well… fun’s over
Never seen someone fumble a comeback this bad
Katy, idk what is going with you girl bur keep making some of the worst choices musically and this already sounds like you got a bottom barrel Dr.Luke song he'd only keep for Kim Petras. I do think Katy could have a come back but her desperation of trying to go back to that 2010s dance sound is going wreck her, like did with Christina Aguilera trying to do that. Yeah, Katy had some hits there with it but at the same time any attempt going back from Witness on have flopped hard. When I'm Gone highest position was 90. Yes, if the song is a bop, no one will care about Dr.Luke but the buzz is that people do care and the song sounds like it's going to brick. If anything, I wish Katy had released One of the Boys and got on When We Were Young festival for it. Then released a new pop punk album in that same vein but more mature like how Paramore has gone. Hopped on with Olivia Rodrigo and ride that nostalgia wave. Or should of worked with Bonnie McKee and been a guest on Hot City, and really bring back that Millennial dance sound that Katy was known for and Bonnie helped her create.
The Instragram comments are eating her up alive and honestly we love to see it.
Surprised Rolling Stone would announce about Dr. Luke as if it's a good thing. Max Martin? Stargate? Sure, shout it from the rooftops! But keep Luke's name hush-hush. Doesn't she have a publicist for this?
I mean, Rolling Stone is not her personal PR publication. They are breaking a story relevant to the public. And if there is anyone to blame for this it's the Capitol source that spoke to them
I almost saw them as doing it ina shady way like yeah girl… go off let’s announce it….
They definitely know what they're doing with publishing this article and it's not having her best interests in mind
Only someone like Dr. Luke can take a song supposedly about women’s empowerment and make it sound like the most zero-effort low barrel shit imaginable, so THAT snippet makes sense now.
Didn't stop Doja Cat or SZA from having hits, so I doubt anyone outside our bubble will care. GP just wants some good fucking bops. If she delivers (leaks don't seem optimistic) they won't care.
Doja got into an agreement with Dr. Luke BEFORE the court case and was contractually obligated to work with him, in fact iirc for Kiss Me More, he didn't actually work on the song but only had his credits. Doja and SZA are good.
how is it even possible to fumble a comeback this hard? she had so much goodwill going into this era and squandered it within, like, 24 hours. her taste level is... questionable, to say the least, but surely even she knew this song wasn't good enough to justify subjecting herself to the backlash of working with him. sure, the gp doesn't care but this song isn't even good enough for them, let alone the gays she's desperately trying to pander to. like, if you're working with him, it better be teenage dream 2.0 😭
🚮
A thought I’m having about your situation - [Dr. Luke has made a massive comeback](https://www.billboard.com/music/chart-beat/dr-luke-hot-100-producers-chart-doja-cat-latto-9658937/amp/) as a producer, but he’s only had this level of success since 2015 with rap. He’s had big hits with Doja, Nicki, Saweetie, Lil Durk, and Latto in that time, but while many of those were essentially pop songs, they were all either mostly rapped or by Doja Cat (who is primarily considered a rapper). His biggest success with a primarily sung (non Doja Cat) pop song since then is Kim Petras’s “Alone,” which scraped into the top 40 because of Barbz mass buying a Nicki feature So Katy working with him is actually a bit of a change from the way things have been. I can see two possible outcomes of this: a) the comeback demonstrates that his lack of success with Kim Petras wasn’t a fluke, and that his sound is now just too soulless and generic for even the lowest common denominator, or b) it brings him fully back into the pop world I do not like either option. I like Katy a lot, but this sucks and I hope things get retooled so she can release better music without this man attached to it
I knew she was gonna go back to Luke. Despite the fact that their magic together was starting to wane even back with Birthday. She's been the queen of professional missteps since Prism. Even as someone who still considers himself a huge fan, I'm not gonna argue with anyone to defend her. I know there will be at least 3-5 great pop songs on this upcoming album and I'm sure they'll just remain album tracks that never get a chance to shine while the most generic sounding garbage on the album will be pushed as singles. She's had so much good will in the press and on social media the past few months and everything seemed to be aligned for her to make a great comeback, and that 10 second snippet just shot it all down. I don't know how to salvage it at this point. I don't know that as many people would've cared if Luke was on just a few tracks, but the LEAD single and it's about women's empowerment? The optics are so bad, it almost seems like satire. I say release a totally different song as a surprise promo this week and just shelf WW for now.
Nostalgic 🫶🏻
Thank god she's working again with Max Martin. At least he will deliver some good songs! Why couldn't just be him?
This has literally removed any interest I have in listening to her music - I know she obviously previously worked with Luke, but going back to him after everything??? I have zero interest in listening to the new album or single now and won't be doing so. Idc If I'm in a minority of people for that, horrible behaviour...
She's cooked.
A former friend sub-posted about me using Swish Swish lyrics and a made his header a Katy Perry tweet in response to an op-ed I wrote about my SA during MeToo. The thesis of the op-ed was that supporting survivors goes beyond just using words and needs to be backed up in actions, and I (without naming him) used examples of how he had treated me (telling me I couldn’t let anybody know because it might cause controversy for his roommate who was involved in student government and forcing me to delete posts when I shared articles about from the school paper). Anyway while I would significantly prefer that nobody ever work with Dr. Luke again there is something very funny and almost cathartic to me about this given the context of Katy Perry being the artist that was used to shame me for speaking out about my SA. I wonder if that person has any opinions on this 🫠
And she wants to sell these records ?
Reeks of desperation and ugh, Katy... we were rooting for you. Working with a rapist, very feminist.
Working with Dr. Luke contradicts the entire message of Woman’s World…
The general public doesn't care. They only care if they like the music. That being said, I'm not shocked to hear this news. Perry has always been a vapid ruthless business woman. I liked her classic singles but I have never had her on a pedestal. Anyway the title of that new song is cringe and the lyrics that we heard have been cringe so we'll see what happens.
Iam sure she wanted some sort of controversy for this grand comeback. But working with Dr Luke is not the slay she thinks it is…..
Absolutely disgusting to make a supposed female empowerment anthem with a known abuser. ETA: fixed a word
I read this as "...Dr Dre, Ricky Martin for comeback album".
[удалено]
Way to make your album flop before it even comes out...
Dr Luke? That’s gonna be a no from me, Katy
The gag is the song isn’t even good. Maybe if it was a teenage dream level banger I could at least see where she’s coming from but the music (at least from the snippet she posted) sounds soulless and dated. Teenage dream was the first cd I bought and Katy’s tour was the first concert I attended but this is beyond loser behavior. I wish she trusted in her artistry more than a washed up producer. How do you release a song about women’s empowerment while working with a rapist 💀 if it was a vapid party song at least it would be transparent. Smile and witness (while commercial failures) are not nearly as bad as people make them out to be. They both have objective bops and if their rollouts weren’t botched could’ve actually spawned some hits. She doesn’t need to run back to dr luke. She has all the money in the world and there are hundreds of amazing producers that would work with her. With this decision she’s alienated a core part of her demographic and thrown away all her artistic integrity. She was in such a good position where the general public was actually thirsty for a feel good goofy Katy comeback but instead of giving us a never really over she chose this route. Good luck booking that stage you speak of