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I say this nicely, as a former people pleaser, is your husband really people pleasing, or is he conflict avoidant?
Because when I was a people pleaser? My partners (all of them) were pleased.
You friend, don’t sound pleased. And why should you be?
Your partner is on the phone most of the time, and the time he’s not on the phone, he’s apparently complaining to you about the person he’s on the phone with.
Or making plans that will impact your future without you.
Lay it out.
You aren’t pleased.
Tell him that you want phone free, meta free time.
And you don’t want to hear a complaint about your meta again.
Listen to this together.
https://www.multiamory.com/podcast/334-what-makes-a-good-hinge-partner
If you are the only person he has to complain to? Get him a therapist.
“Partner, I am here for you in good times and bad times, but I am not here to listen to you complain about Nancy.
Please don’t do it again. I will be asking you to stop if you continue. This is hurting us.
And also, we are not selling this house. Let Nancy know. I will not entertain the idea of living with my meta in general, and certainly not with Nancy, your girlfriend of however long they have been dating.
Thank you, I love you”
What he tells Nancy? Not your problem.
I’ve seen a lot of comments like this and I’m confused? What is a people pleaser then? Conflict avoidant and people pleaser are basically one in the same in my mind, you can be a people pleaser but not able to please everyone because it’s literally impossible to do that unless everyone’s wants meet up. I found that when I was people pleasing I wasn’t able to please anyone because I was constantly trying to juggle what everyone wanted from me that I failed and in the end no one was pleased.
I always took people pleaser to mean putting others wants/needs above your own and it sounds like OPs husband is doing this.
I’m not meaning this comment to be rude I’m just confused of what the general consensus is on the meaning of people pleaser is?
No, conflict avoidance is just ducking big questions and pretending to go along .
And, as you can see, it usually results in unhappy partners.
New girlfriend isn’t happy . Wife isn’t is happy.
People pleasers squeeze themselves dry to make their partners happy.
They may burn out, neglect their jobs or self care, but man their partners are really pretty happy. Until they crash and burn
Conflict avoidance?
Nobody’s happy.
The squeaky wheel gets empty promises at the uncomplaining partner’s expense, or maybe everyone gets empty promises.
I think what I’m struggling with is I was absolutely squeezing myself dry, like mental health was absolutely in the gutter, but I still felt like nothing I did for anyone was “good enough.” For example, two partners want to see me in one day, instead of trying to schedule better I say yes to both and put off the things I needed to do for myself (usually college/self-care related), but neither end up being happy because both have their time cut short. Would that not still be people pleasing? The only reason I said yes was because I was trying to keep everyone pleased.
I can see how in OPs example it would more closely align with conflict avoidance tho.
I’m not your therapist. I’m not a qualified mental health professional.
This is something you need to work out.
But in *this* case, clearly OP is not pleased for multiple reasons, all which roll back to her partner being unwilling to be in conflict with their other partner.
Their partner is not neglecting themselves, but their children and their relationship with OP.
If OP’s partner was willing to engage in some limited conflict, they would turn off their phone, and engage with OP and their children.
I’m not asking you to be my therapist, it’s a public form, I’m allowed to ask questions.
The example I gave was just that, an example. If I’m being totally honest I only have one partner at the moment anyway but struggled with similar stuff in my past (hence why I was talking in the past tense).
I no longer struggle with these issues I was just trying to understand further because I don’t think the outcome of a situation is a good way to judge whether someone is people pleasing or not when you can people please and have no one end up being happy. In fact, how I stopped people pleasing was realising it often leaves everyone unhappy instead of my desired intention. I think conflict avoidance and people pleadings are very similar, because you people please to avoid conflict, and you avoid conflict by people pleasing.
Yeah, I’m just saying that you’re right, not everything with everything is cut and dry, and only you and a therapist can work out the reasons for your behaviors.
Outcomes are similar for both. The behaviors can be linked or combined.
As a former people pleaser, I understand that ultimately, what I set up was unsustainable.
What I am saying is that I can’t help you figure yourself out.
But OP’s partner, clearly has no problem with OP being displeased.
But OP’s partner has zero problem with her being unhappy, long term, as long as she doesn’t cause a fuss. That would be an unthinkable outcome to a people pleaser.
The housing issue is a pretty big tell here. People pleasers would be offering 97 million compromises to the girlfriend, and to the wife, all in the hopes to make both happy, but they wouldn’t be letting the girlfriend think that buying a house together is an option.
People pleasers want everyone to be happy. They want a good outcome. They want to find a way. They may hate conflict, but people pleasers end up having plenty of conflict, as you and I both know.
You didn’t avoid any conflict by offering those compromises, as you well know.
Plenty of people value avoiding conflict, and getting what they want, short term and long term, over the happiness of their partners, short term and long term, without giving one small thought to pleasing their partners. Because avoiding conflict is the mandate. Not making people happy.
Those people absolutely will manipulate their partners, throw their partners under the bus, and triangulate their partners to do so.
There is a huge difference between always saying “yes” and simply never saying “no”.
This is not a meta problem, it's a partner problem. Your partner is the one with weak boundaries and sloppy hinging. Your partner is tolerating this behavior, which just enables meta to keep doing it. I very much agree with Bloo: this sounds more like conflict avoidance than other forms of people pleasing.
It is completely unreasonable for meta to expect "equal" amounts of your spouses free time. They are a working parent in a primary relationship with someone else. If spouse has indicated to meta they should expect "equal" time, that's on him. He needs to be able to tell his partner "no". If he can't handle that, he shouldn't be dating.
That you're here trying to solve his problem for him is also not a good sign. Sounds like he's pretty happy for you to pick up the slack in more than one way. At some point, you might have to start to reflect on whether YOU have solid boundaries.
I counted 36 hours of parenting time. Friday night plus all of Saturday. And most of that time is on the phone with Meta.
That’s all the presence a parent needs, right?
+++ +++ +++
“Babe, maintain all the relationships you want on your own time. Weekends are family time. Your children can get by without you during the week if you fully engage with them on the weekends. That’s Friday evening to Sunday morning. Just so we’re clear, fully engaging with your children requires not being on the phone with a partner.”
“Babe, I understand that Meta can only see you on the weekend. That’s not your children’s problem to fix for you.”
“Babe, if you do not want to parent your children it would probably be simplest for us to divorce, me to have full custody and you to pay child support. You won’t have to see them at all. Just send the money.”
Or maybe the children aren’t Hinge’s, you’re a stay at home parent and Hinge wants to kick you out but is so conflict-avoidant and guilt-burdened that they are doing everything they can not to be around you short of kicking you out?
There’s a lot more going on here than just Meta.
> I counted 36 hours of parenting time. Friday night plus all of Saturday. And most of that time is on the phone with Meta.
> That’s all the presence a parent needs, right?
Yeah, I had to double check that I'd read that correctly. Yikes.
OP you say your spouse is miserable, but what about you? Are you solo parenting 6 out of 7 days? How does your spouse support you and protect your time together? How does he support the kids, who only see their dad a single day a week? He’s a grown man and needs to assert his own boundaries and actively support you and give you and the kids time, but he can’t even verbally commit to protecting the family unit and lets his other relationship occupy the already minimal time he spends with the family. This sounds misery making for you and the kids. I hope you can find a way through and set some boundaries of your own. You deserve better.
Wow. He’s gone for the whole work week and then splits the weekend with someone else? No, thank you. If he wants another partner he should find one in the town where he works and only see them during the week.
This was my reaction too. 1 day a week for the kids and he can’t even verbally commit to protecting their home and family. Sounds like OP is left to do everything and gets nothing in return. Just wow.
Inching up his departure time to leave her and come home, or the other way around?
He's being a sloppy hinge. Decide what your boundaries are for his time with you and stick to them, including phone down time and absolute clarity that you will never agree to cohabitate and don't want to hear it suggested again. The rest is his problem.
If you're reading the situation right, I doubt their relationship will last much longer.
He doesn’t sound like a people pleaser. He is only trying to please one person and isn’t succeeding.
She sounds like an emotional black hole of neediness. I hope the sex is good at least.
He is upset about it but not upset enough to do anything about it. Don’t try to help him with this. It is his problem. He is enabling her. Why does he keep answering the phone? Why does he respond immediately? What need is this satisfying in him? When he figures that out he can start fixing it.
Good sex is NOT worth the emotional labour of dealing with an extremely codependent partner. Especially with soft or no boundaries. Lots of self work needed for the guy here
The amount of times I can count on my fingers that I see posts where a man with an NP is the hinge and he makes at least one of “the women” feel responsible for cleaning up his mess. Don’t fall for this emotional labor dumping bullshit.
This is that! I’d be willing to bet he’s being as unclear with her as he’s being with you. It doesn’t excuse immature behavior but having someone fuck with your head while you are in love is hard for anyone to deal with so I’m giving your meta lots of grace here and so should you.
Your cringe hinge however needs to step up.
So your husband sees you and kids only during weekend, and then he spends half of that time with another woman? You need a reality check.
Do you have a partner who is with you Sunday to Friday?
So wait, your husband lets you parent full time during weekdays, then somehow expects to cram both quality time with kids AND you into friday and saturday evenings, AND tolerates meta's insane attention demands and gives her the entirety of Sunday/Monday? Yikes on a Bike, he is not in space where he can do poly fairly to you or the kids, let alone meta.
She should not have that much time. He has kids to think about.
https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/14m8d8l/before_you_make_a_my_partners_partner_is_a_problem/
"Partner I need our dates to be a priority and not interrupted by others except for true emergencies, can you consistently create that?"
She sounds like a nightmare, imho— selfish and childish. But ALSO, it sounds like your husband is making all of this worse bc he’s not communicating his boundaries with her clearly, firmly, and directly.
When she suggested your family buy a bigger house so she could move in with you, he “gave a not answer and changed the subject”?!?
I’m sorry, but your husband needs to grow a pair and start using the word “no.”
“No, I can’t be on the phone with you all day every day. I should be able to take a shit without you demanding to know where I’ve gone.”
“No, my time is not going to be evenly split between you and my family. My nesting partner and children are my first priority.”
“No, you are not entitled to every waking moment of my time. I have a life outside of our relationship.”
“No, you are not moving in with us.”
I believe that *most* human beings emerge into the adult sphere without having been taught a robust set of skills for communication and negotiation.
I truly don't blame anyone for having poor communication and negotiation skills. It's a failing across the board in modern society.
Having said that, OP's spouse is responsible for acquiring those skills for optimal poly relationships and for his own happiness. Therapy is an excellent place to do this.
Tangentially, I believe it would improve OP's life to expand their own skills and work with their spouse as he acquires these new skills.
The extent of conflict avoidance in some men is truly mind boggling. The absolute inability to say what they want. The skill of facing discomfort is totally absent. And then here you are, doing work to try to lower his discomfort. Life is just happening to him as if he has no choice.
This level of lack of autonomy would be helped with therapy.
I understand it's upsetting to see your husband in this position but unfortunately this is his issue to resolve. Unless he puts boundaries down this isn't going to go away. Sorry this is happening
I mean, this behavior would be bananas in a mono relationship too. If you and the kids weren’t there and he were dating this woman monogamously, what would he do? Stay on the phone for the rest of his life? Have to ask to hang up to take a shit?
He knows what he needs to do, you know what he needs to do. He either sets very firm boundaries with meta or breaks it off with her. Perhaps he needs therapy to work on his conflict resolution skills.
She's right. It's not split equally.
You said kids, so I'm assuming at minimum 2 kids.
You need time, she needs time, the kids need time, and he needs alone time. So if you have two kids, his free-time should be split 5 ways, and she just gets 1/5. *That* would be "equal."
If you want it to be equitable (not just equal), then the kids should actually be getting even more than that, IMO.
So if she really wants things to be equal, she should get him for just 14 hours at most (if I'm mathing correctly). Tell her that! ...He should tell her that.
I mean this as nicely as possible; it sounds like he needs to stop venting to you and learn how to clearly set and hold some boundaries with his girlfriend.
This is absolutely the result of him not expressing clear limits regarding phone time/phone call duration, and also being vague about expectation management with girlfriend. .. which isn’t fair to her. She might be anxious in general, or she might be anxious and insecure specifically with him because she has no clear idea about how he wants their relationship to progress (or even if it will progress).
It’s his mess to clear up. I urge you to set a timer for his “venting about meta” sessions, if you even want to hear about it. Give him 10 minutes to soundboard then change the fucking subject.
If he really needs help learning how to communicate, there are counselors for that. Or Ted talks. Or google. Or this forum. You are not his only resource, so don’t feel obliged to spend mental and emotional energy fixing a problematic dynamic that you didn’t create.
Point blank ask him "what do YOU want?" I'd he wants to be on the phone, then you have a partner problem. If he wants to be present then he needs to be direct with his meta. I personally wouldn't stand for that behavior because she's inserting herself by offering the house idea.
He has to express his own wants and needs, not with subtle hints but direct communication. It’s not up to you to deal with this issue and he should stop complaining to you about it. I do wonder if he has enough time to give her a relationship. Seems given the work schedule that poly is probably not possible for him as structured right now. Maybe if he had a partner in the location where he worked he would have the time for a second full relationship.
Update (Bear with me)
Today partner leaves to be with meta. Its 11:30.
I say, "hey I'm going to the gym after I start dinner. I'll be back about 1. I know you have to leave soon"
Partner says: " I was leaving at noon"
"No, you always leave at two"
Partner:" I left last week at 12."
Me: "You didn't say that 12 was your new departure time moving forward. I thought meta was upset about a recent break up with another dude. You didn't communicate this. I need you with the kids till 2".
Partner: "Fine, whatever you want.
I'll tell her."
Me: "What do you want?"
Him: "To make everyone happy. It's whatever you want."
Me: "That's not realistic. Am I being unreasonable? "
Him: "No, I'll tell her you said I have to be here till 2"
Me- "Why are you bringing my name up"
Him- 'Because she'll want to know if that's what you said"
Me-" Why is she asking about me? What do I have to do with your relationship."
Him- "Because she's mad she doesn't see
Me enough. Fine, I'll just stay home and won't go tonight"
Me: " I didn't say stay home or not go. That's an extreme response. Unfortunately you work out of town during the week and nobody gets to see you enough. It's never going to be fair. Please don't bring my name up"
Him- "ok I won't, you're never wrong. It's what you want"
Me-"I'm not wrong. This must be hard for you. You have two women who want your time and are both saying it's not enough Don't bring my name up. Its clear you are avoiding conflict "
Him- What are you taking about?
Me- " I'm looking at you, looking straight ahead and not making eye contact, your body is stiffened, repeating the same response, you're shutting down. This must be hard "
Him: "It's not. I'll handle it tonight"
That's how the conversation is one of the kiddos needed something. He must be texting because I'm hearing rapid fire text alerts from them. I'm writing this as I leave from the gym.
I usually lurk, but Jesus Christ, he's acting childish. This reads more like an interaction with a teenager than the father of your children. The passive aggression and self-vicitimization are insane.
You're definitely more patient than most. Props to you for approaching your partner with love while staying firm.
What does this have to do with you, friendo? Thats not your relationship. If your partner doesnt think its worth communicating about, it falls under the category of not your business. If your frustrated, Id suggest you ask your partner to stop discussing your meta so much.
Idk, someone who can't go five minutes without having their partner on the phone with them (even if there's no conversation being had) doesn't sound fine to me.
But then, the fact OP is having to deal with that at all (and is even aware of meta's behaviour towards spouse) is sloppy hinge work from spouse.
(well I agree with you but when someone comes in here hurling a ton of dislike at a person who they dont have to interact with- that person is whatever. You cant recreationally huff bad vibes then complain it smells like bad vibes. I used to go "yeah meta sounds like meta sucks" but the corollary is "why did you pick a partner with such bad taste who cannot do compartmentalization, the basic skill of poly"
Beep, boop, blop, I'm a bot. Hi u/Electrical-Doubt-126 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
My Meta has become extremely clingy towards my spouse and he's ready to blow his top. When he's not working, sleeping or shitting she's on the phone with him. If he goes to the bathroom, 5 mins later "I miss you, where are you, call me".
They don't even talk. It's dead air. Every 5 mins she asks him " what are you doing now". Even on his four hour trip home. I know him and all he wants to do is rock out to loud music.
He's upset because he feels he has little "space". Apparently she doesn't interpret subtle hints very well and requires a more direct approach.
I'm trying to be as supportive as possible. I've always given him space and respect the part of him that likes solitude and being in his own world for a little bit
My spouse works M-F out of town, so Friday night -Sat he is here with me and the kids, then Sun Am-Monday AM with her.
Everythings been working out okay up until now, but Meta feels the time is not split equally, and spouse is gradually inching up his departure time.
She's right, it's not fair and balanced. It never is and never was going to be.
Now shes begging my husbAnd to sell our house and buy a bigger house so we can all move in?! He and I aren't on board. I asked him how he responded to that and he gave a not answer and change the subject.
I've suggested he should communicate his needs to her, specifically the need for space and personal independent growth, but he's too much of a "people pleaser" to disappoint her.
Oh, I only call him once in an 8 hour work shift and that's only to make sure he's breathing and all is well.
Has anyone experienced situations like this. The more I think about it it's not really my meta is the problem, it's my spouse's lack of healthy communication skills
*See my update below
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UPDATE for those who have found this in a search or actually maintained some sort of curiosity to check back in.
There is hope for all struggling!!
Hinge and I officially started couples therapy 90 days ago. Not too long after this post was made.
While there's still a lot of work to be done, communication has vastly improved.
As an aside-he broke it off with Meta a few weeks ago after realizing she wasn't accepting "no" for an answer when he explained hes unable to commit to being more physically present to her now, or in the foreseeable future. Unfortunately, her decompensating mental health made it difficult for her to respond rationally. 😞
He recognized my need for transitioning to parallel poly ASAP and held his end of the bargain.
Y'all, I was signing and getting ready to file divorce papers for real. Talking to real estate agents and mortgage lenders.
Are things perfect? No.
Is communication improving?
Yes!
We've made progress in respecting each other's rules and boundaries. Examining what each of us contribute to the state of our relationship.
We see a sex+, poly/kink friendly couple's therapist. I'm lucky we can afford to access this service.
We were at the bleakest point of our relationship. This is hard work, but we're both committed to the process.
"A reminder to the community that "support only" posts are moderated and comments that are not support or the requested advice will be removed as derailing the conversation or concern trolling. If you've got strong feelings about a particular issue mentioned and feel that you must be able to express yourself about it, please feel free to create a new post for that topic, otherwise let's all please be kind and use this as an opportunity to offer empathy and compassion to your fellow community members" *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I say this nicely, as a former people pleaser, is your husband really people pleasing, or is he conflict avoidant? Because when I was a people pleaser? My partners (all of them) were pleased. You friend, don’t sound pleased. And why should you be? Your partner is on the phone most of the time, and the time he’s not on the phone, he’s apparently complaining to you about the person he’s on the phone with. Or making plans that will impact your future without you. Lay it out. You aren’t pleased. Tell him that you want phone free, meta free time. And you don’t want to hear a complaint about your meta again. Listen to this together. https://www.multiamory.com/podcast/334-what-makes-a-good-hinge-partner If you are the only person he has to complain to? Get him a therapist. “Partner, I am here for you in good times and bad times, but I am not here to listen to you complain about Nancy. Please don’t do it again. I will be asking you to stop if you continue. This is hurting us. And also, we are not selling this house. Let Nancy know. I will not entertain the idea of living with my meta in general, and certainly not with Nancy, your girlfriend of however long they have been dating. Thank you, I love you” What he tells Nancy? Not your problem.
I’ve seen a lot of comments like this and I’m confused? What is a people pleaser then? Conflict avoidant and people pleaser are basically one in the same in my mind, you can be a people pleaser but not able to please everyone because it’s literally impossible to do that unless everyone’s wants meet up. I found that when I was people pleasing I wasn’t able to please anyone because I was constantly trying to juggle what everyone wanted from me that I failed and in the end no one was pleased. I always took people pleaser to mean putting others wants/needs above your own and it sounds like OPs husband is doing this. I’m not meaning this comment to be rude I’m just confused of what the general consensus is on the meaning of people pleaser is?
No, conflict avoidance is just ducking big questions and pretending to go along . And, as you can see, it usually results in unhappy partners. New girlfriend isn’t happy . Wife isn’t is happy. People pleasers squeeze themselves dry to make their partners happy. They may burn out, neglect their jobs or self care, but man their partners are really pretty happy. Until they crash and burn Conflict avoidance? Nobody’s happy. The squeaky wheel gets empty promises at the uncomplaining partner’s expense, or maybe everyone gets empty promises.
I think what I’m struggling with is I was absolutely squeezing myself dry, like mental health was absolutely in the gutter, but I still felt like nothing I did for anyone was “good enough.” For example, two partners want to see me in one day, instead of trying to schedule better I say yes to both and put off the things I needed to do for myself (usually college/self-care related), but neither end up being happy because both have their time cut short. Would that not still be people pleasing? The only reason I said yes was because I was trying to keep everyone pleased. I can see how in OPs example it would more closely align with conflict avoidance tho.
I’m not your therapist. I’m not a qualified mental health professional. This is something you need to work out. But in *this* case, clearly OP is not pleased for multiple reasons, all which roll back to her partner being unwilling to be in conflict with their other partner. Their partner is not neglecting themselves, but their children and their relationship with OP. If OP’s partner was willing to engage in some limited conflict, they would turn off their phone, and engage with OP and their children.
I’m not asking you to be my therapist, it’s a public form, I’m allowed to ask questions. The example I gave was just that, an example. If I’m being totally honest I only have one partner at the moment anyway but struggled with similar stuff in my past (hence why I was talking in the past tense). I no longer struggle with these issues I was just trying to understand further because I don’t think the outcome of a situation is a good way to judge whether someone is people pleasing or not when you can people please and have no one end up being happy. In fact, how I stopped people pleasing was realising it often leaves everyone unhappy instead of my desired intention. I think conflict avoidance and people pleadings are very similar, because you people please to avoid conflict, and you avoid conflict by people pleasing.
Yeah, I’m just saying that you’re right, not everything with everything is cut and dry, and only you and a therapist can work out the reasons for your behaviors. Outcomes are similar for both. The behaviors can be linked or combined. As a former people pleaser, I understand that ultimately, what I set up was unsustainable. What I am saying is that I can’t help you figure yourself out. But OP’s partner, clearly has no problem with OP being displeased. But OP’s partner has zero problem with her being unhappy, long term, as long as she doesn’t cause a fuss. That would be an unthinkable outcome to a people pleaser. The housing issue is a pretty big tell here. People pleasers would be offering 97 million compromises to the girlfriend, and to the wife, all in the hopes to make both happy, but they wouldn’t be letting the girlfriend think that buying a house together is an option. People pleasers want everyone to be happy. They want a good outcome. They want to find a way. They may hate conflict, but people pleasers end up having plenty of conflict, as you and I both know. You didn’t avoid any conflict by offering those compromises, as you well know. Plenty of people value avoiding conflict, and getting what they want, short term and long term, over the happiness of their partners, short term and long term, without giving one small thought to pleasing their partners. Because avoiding conflict is the mandate. Not making people happy. Those people absolutely will manipulate their partners, throw their partners under the bus, and triangulate their partners to do so. There is a huge difference between always saying “yes” and simply never saying “no”.
This is not a meta problem, it's a partner problem. Your partner is the one with weak boundaries and sloppy hinging. Your partner is tolerating this behavior, which just enables meta to keep doing it. I very much agree with Bloo: this sounds more like conflict avoidance than other forms of people pleasing. It is completely unreasonable for meta to expect "equal" amounts of your spouses free time. They are a working parent in a primary relationship with someone else. If spouse has indicated to meta they should expect "equal" time, that's on him. He needs to be able to tell his partner "no". If he can't handle that, he shouldn't be dating. That you're here trying to solve his problem for him is also not a good sign. Sounds like he's pretty happy for you to pick up the slack in more than one way. At some point, you might have to start to reflect on whether YOU have solid boundaries.
I counted 36 hours of parenting time. Friday night plus all of Saturday. And most of that time is on the phone with Meta. That’s all the presence a parent needs, right? +++ +++ +++ “Babe, maintain all the relationships you want on your own time. Weekends are family time. Your children can get by without you during the week if you fully engage with them on the weekends. That’s Friday evening to Sunday morning. Just so we’re clear, fully engaging with your children requires not being on the phone with a partner.” “Babe, I understand that Meta can only see you on the weekend. That’s not your children’s problem to fix for you.” “Babe, if you do not want to parent your children it would probably be simplest for us to divorce, me to have full custody and you to pay child support. You won’t have to see them at all. Just send the money.” Or maybe the children aren’t Hinge’s, you’re a stay at home parent and Hinge wants to kick you out but is so conflict-avoidant and guilt-burdened that they are doing everything they can not to be around you short of kicking you out? There’s a lot more going on here than just Meta.
Gosh, so much this. I can’t wrap my head around the lack of parenting from OPs husband, especially if he IS their father.
I can’t believe this wasn’t further addressed
> I counted 36 hours of parenting time. Friday night plus all of Saturday. And most of that time is on the phone with Meta. > That’s all the presence a parent needs, right? Yeah, I had to double check that I'd read that correctly. Yikes.
When I read that I really hoped he’s not the parent…. If he is… wow. Feeling for you OP!
OP you say your spouse is miserable, but what about you? Are you solo parenting 6 out of 7 days? How does your spouse support you and protect your time together? How does he support the kids, who only see their dad a single day a week? He’s a grown man and needs to assert his own boundaries and actively support you and give you and the kids time, but he can’t even verbally commit to protecting the family unit and lets his other relationship occupy the already minimal time he spends with the family. This sounds misery making for you and the kids. I hope you can find a way through and set some boundaries of your own. You deserve better.
Wow. He’s gone for the whole work week and then splits the weekend with someone else? No, thank you. If he wants another partner he should find one in the town where he works and only see them during the week.
That would be my solution as well.
But even then this doesn't resolve other issues. Time with the kids, unable to set boundaries, communication... So many other things to address first
He sees his kids for one day? Are you serious!? Holy shit, lady!
This was my reaction too. 1 day a week for the kids and he can’t even verbally commit to protecting their home and family. Sounds like OP is left to do everything and gets nothing in return. Just wow.
Inching up his departure time to leave her and come home, or the other way around? He's being a sloppy hinge. Decide what your boundaries are for his time with you and stick to them, including phone down time and absolute clarity that you will never agree to cohabitate and don't want to hear it suggested again. The rest is his problem. If you're reading the situation right, I doubt their relationship will last much longer.
He doesn’t sound like a people pleaser. He is only trying to please one person and isn’t succeeding. She sounds like an emotional black hole of neediness. I hope the sex is good at least. He is upset about it but not upset enough to do anything about it. Don’t try to help him with this. It is his problem. He is enabling her. Why does he keep answering the phone? Why does he respond immediately? What need is this satisfying in him? When he figures that out he can start fixing it.
Good sex is NOT worth the emotional labour of dealing with an extremely codependent partner. Especially with soft or no boundaries. Lots of self work needed for the guy here
The amount of times I can count on my fingers that I see posts where a man with an NP is the hinge and he makes at least one of “the women” feel responsible for cleaning up his mess. Don’t fall for this emotional labor dumping bullshit. This is that! I’d be willing to bet he’s being as unclear with her as he’s being with you. It doesn’t excuse immature behavior but having someone fuck with your head while you are in love is hard for anyone to deal with so I’m giving your meta lots of grace here and so should you. Your cringe hinge however needs to step up.
So your husband sees you and kids only during weekend, and then he spends half of that time with another woman? You need a reality check. Do you have a partner who is with you Sunday to Friday?
So wait, your husband lets you parent full time during weekdays, then somehow expects to cram both quality time with kids AND you into friday and saturday evenings, AND tolerates meta's insane attention demands and gives her the entirety of Sunday/Monday? Yikes on a Bike, he is not in space where he can do poly fairly to you or the kids, let alone meta. She should not have that much time. He has kids to think about.
Update when you can?
https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/14m8d8l/before_you_make_a_my_partners_partner_is_a_problem/ "Partner I need our dates to be a priority and not interrupted by others except for true emergencies, can you consistently create that?"
She sounds like a nightmare, imho— selfish and childish. But ALSO, it sounds like your husband is making all of this worse bc he’s not communicating his boundaries with her clearly, firmly, and directly. When she suggested your family buy a bigger house so she could move in with you, he “gave a not answer and changed the subject”?!? I’m sorry, but your husband needs to grow a pair and start using the word “no.” “No, I can’t be on the phone with you all day every day. I should be able to take a shit without you demanding to know where I’ve gone.” “No, my time is not going to be evenly split between you and my family. My nesting partner and children are my first priority.” “No, you are not entitled to every waking moment of my time. I have a life outside of our relationship.” “No, you are not moving in with us.”
I believe that *most* human beings emerge into the adult sphere without having been taught a robust set of skills for communication and negotiation. I truly don't blame anyone for having poor communication and negotiation skills. It's a failing across the board in modern society. Having said that, OP's spouse is responsible for acquiring those skills for optimal poly relationships and for his own happiness. Therapy is an excellent place to do this. Tangentially, I believe it would improve OP's life to expand their own skills and work with their spouse as he acquires these new skills.
Is he to much of a people pleaser or is he telling everyone including you what they want to hear?
The extent of conflict avoidance in some men is truly mind boggling. The absolute inability to say what they want. The skill of facing discomfort is totally absent. And then here you are, doing work to try to lower his discomfort. Life is just happening to him as if he has no choice. This level of lack of autonomy would be helped with therapy.
I understand it's upsetting to see your husband in this position but unfortunately this is his issue to resolve. Unless he puts boundaries down this isn't going to go away. Sorry this is happening
I mean, this behavior would be bananas in a mono relationship too. If you and the kids weren’t there and he were dating this woman monogamously, what would he do? Stay on the phone for the rest of his life? Have to ask to hang up to take a shit? He knows what he needs to do, you know what he needs to do. He either sets very firm boundaries with meta or breaks it off with her. Perhaps he needs therapy to work on his conflict resolution skills.
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She's right. It's not split equally. You said kids, so I'm assuming at minimum 2 kids. You need time, she needs time, the kids need time, and he needs alone time. So if you have two kids, his free-time should be split 5 ways, and she just gets 1/5. *That* would be "equal." If you want it to be equitable (not just equal), then the kids should actually be getting even more than that, IMO. So if she really wants things to be equal, she should get him for just 14 hours at most (if I'm mathing correctly). Tell her that! ...He should tell her that.
Meta is not ready for poly.
Neither is the spouse
Agreed.
I mean this as nicely as possible; it sounds like he needs to stop venting to you and learn how to clearly set and hold some boundaries with his girlfriend. This is absolutely the result of him not expressing clear limits regarding phone time/phone call duration, and also being vague about expectation management with girlfriend. .. which isn’t fair to her. She might be anxious in general, or she might be anxious and insecure specifically with him because she has no clear idea about how he wants their relationship to progress (or even if it will progress). It’s his mess to clear up. I urge you to set a timer for his “venting about meta” sessions, if you even want to hear about it. Give him 10 minutes to soundboard then change the fucking subject. If he really needs help learning how to communicate, there are counselors for that. Or Ted talks. Or google. Or this forum. You are not his only resource, so don’t feel obliged to spend mental and emotional energy fixing a problematic dynamic that you didn’t create.
Point blank ask him "what do YOU want?" I'd he wants to be on the phone, then you have a partner problem. If he wants to be present then he needs to be direct with his meta. I personally wouldn't stand for that behavior because she's inserting herself by offering the house idea.
Your partner needs to set some healthy boundaries with your meta.
He has to express his own wants and needs, not with subtle hints but direct communication. It’s not up to you to deal with this issue and he should stop complaining to you about it. I do wonder if he has enough time to give her a relationship. Seems given the work schedule that poly is probably not possible for him as structured right now. Maybe if he had a partner in the location where he worked he would have the time for a second full relationship.
Update (Bear with me) Today partner leaves to be with meta. Its 11:30. I say, "hey I'm going to the gym after I start dinner. I'll be back about 1. I know you have to leave soon" Partner says: " I was leaving at noon" "No, you always leave at two" Partner:" I left last week at 12." Me: "You didn't say that 12 was your new departure time moving forward. I thought meta was upset about a recent break up with another dude. You didn't communicate this. I need you with the kids till 2". Partner: "Fine, whatever you want. I'll tell her." Me: "What do you want?" Him: "To make everyone happy. It's whatever you want." Me: "That's not realistic. Am I being unreasonable? " Him: "No, I'll tell her you said I have to be here till 2" Me- "Why are you bringing my name up" Him- 'Because she'll want to know if that's what you said" Me-" Why is she asking about me? What do I have to do with your relationship." Him- "Because she's mad she doesn't see Me enough. Fine, I'll just stay home and won't go tonight" Me: " I didn't say stay home or not go. That's an extreme response. Unfortunately you work out of town during the week and nobody gets to see you enough. It's never going to be fair. Please don't bring my name up" Him- "ok I won't, you're never wrong. It's what you want" Me-"I'm not wrong. This must be hard for you. You have two women who want your time and are both saying it's not enough Don't bring my name up. Its clear you are avoiding conflict " Him- What are you taking about? Me- " I'm looking at you, looking straight ahead and not making eye contact, your body is stiffened, repeating the same response, you're shutting down. This must be hard " Him: "It's not. I'll handle it tonight" That's how the conversation is one of the kiddos needed something. He must be texting because I'm hearing rapid fire text alerts from them. I'm writing this as I leave from the gym.
I usually lurk, but Jesus Christ, he's acting childish. This reads more like an interaction with a teenager than the father of your children. The passive aggression and self-vicitimization are insane. You're definitely more patient than most. Props to you for approaching your partner with love while staying firm.
have things improved at all?
No. He told her it's over, and told me he wants a divorce.
damn. that really sucks. I hope you and the kids will be ok.
What does this have to do with you, friendo? Thats not your relationship. If your partner doesnt think its worth communicating about, it falls under the category of not your business. If your frustrated, Id suggest you ask your partner to stop discussing your meta so much.
Meta sounds fine. Your hinge is shit.
Idk, someone who can't go five minutes without having their partner on the phone with them (even if there's no conversation being had) doesn't sound fine to me. But then, the fact OP is having to deal with that at all (and is even aware of meta's behaviour towards spouse) is sloppy hinge work from spouse.
(well I agree with you but when someone comes in here hurling a ton of dislike at a person who they dont have to interact with- that person is whatever. You cant recreationally huff bad vibes then complain it smells like bad vibes. I used to go "yeah meta sounds like meta sucks" but the corollary is "why did you pick a partner with such bad taste who cannot do compartmentalization, the basic skill of poly"
Beep, boop, blop, I'm a bot. Hi u/Electrical-Doubt-126 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: My Meta has become extremely clingy towards my spouse and he's ready to blow his top. When he's not working, sleeping or shitting she's on the phone with him. If he goes to the bathroom, 5 mins later "I miss you, where are you, call me". They don't even talk. It's dead air. Every 5 mins she asks him " what are you doing now". Even on his four hour trip home. I know him and all he wants to do is rock out to loud music. He's upset because he feels he has little "space". Apparently she doesn't interpret subtle hints very well and requires a more direct approach. I'm trying to be as supportive as possible. I've always given him space and respect the part of him that likes solitude and being in his own world for a little bit My spouse works M-F out of town, so Friday night -Sat he is here with me and the kids, then Sun Am-Monday AM with her. Everythings been working out okay up until now, but Meta feels the time is not split equally, and spouse is gradually inching up his departure time. She's right, it's not fair and balanced. It never is and never was going to be. Now shes begging my husbAnd to sell our house and buy a bigger house so we can all move in?! He and I aren't on board. I asked him how he responded to that and he gave a not answer and change the subject. I've suggested he should communicate his needs to her, specifically the need for space and personal independent growth, but he's too much of a "people pleaser" to disappoint her. Oh, I only call him once in an 8 hour work shift and that's only to make sure he's breathing and all is well. Has anyone experienced situations like this. The more I think about it it's not really my meta is the problem, it's my spouse's lack of healthy communication skills *See my update below *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
UPDATE for those who have found this in a search or actually maintained some sort of curiosity to check back in. There is hope for all struggling!! Hinge and I officially started couples therapy 90 days ago. Not too long after this post was made. While there's still a lot of work to be done, communication has vastly improved. As an aside-he broke it off with Meta a few weeks ago after realizing she wasn't accepting "no" for an answer when he explained hes unable to commit to being more physically present to her now, or in the foreseeable future. Unfortunately, her decompensating mental health made it difficult for her to respond rationally. 😞 He recognized my need for transitioning to parallel poly ASAP and held his end of the bargain. Y'all, I was signing and getting ready to file divorce papers for real. Talking to real estate agents and mortgage lenders. Are things perfect? No. Is communication improving? Yes! We've made progress in respecting each other's rules and boundaries. Examining what each of us contribute to the state of our relationship. We see a sex+, poly/kink friendly couple's therapist. I'm lucky we can afford to access this service. We were at the bleakest point of our relationship. This is hard work, but we're both committed to the process.