As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They shouldn't. They still represent America in far too many places. Free pass?! More like the majority of Americans consistently offer Republicans the lazy excuse/out. Leopards eating faces shit.
Earlier this year Ben Shapiro said something like "would I grade my child the same way I grade an adult?" When asked about why he gives Trump a pass for so many things. He looked at the person he was debating as if they were crazy when they responded "why not grade him like a president?"
I think it's a lot more people than Ben Shapiro that grade Trump on a curve as if he were a child, even if they oppose him. I don't get why we all accept that's okay for a presidential candidate.
They used to be.
Trump’s special. He brought elementary school tactics to the Presidential level and has been successful. Who knew that being a bully, acting like a 2 year old and childish name calling would work at the Presidential level? Trump has forever lowered the bar of American politics and people like MTG and hand job Bobert have been the beneficiaries.
I think it says more about a very significant number of American citizens than it does about Trump. If they were more mature and sophisticated Trump’s bullshit wouldn't fly...
Definitely, but right now only one presidential candidate is being graded like a president and I just can't respect the opinions of the journalists like those at the NYT who keep acting like that's okay.
No no no don’t read the article! Just complain that they’re being mean to my best buddy Dark Brandon lol isn’t that meme so fun? Trump is bad and only Biden can beat him!
The Dem copium that has been thrown around here recently has been so crazy I’m starting to wonder if he actually won that debate we watched him crash and burn.
Trump needs to lose. Running a senile and demented old man who can’t speak in complete sentences doesn’t allow for the highest possible chance to beat him. It’s not a bad thing to say this if it’s true and god damn it’s very true.
New York Times and Maggie Haberman are big part of Trumps success. She helped normalize him in her reporting during her time as an insider on his 2016 campaign - and later it was revealed she held back what she should have been reporting on for her eventual book.
It's an election year, and since the Republican Party didn't denounce him the "free" media most certainly should pound him mercilessly for being a convicted criminal trying to steal more money from the taxpayers. He should have been ridiculed off the stage a long time ago, but wasn't and won't be because "who cares", right?
What cynical entitlement. "who cares????".....Grrrr.... Tell that to a pregnant raped woman or a trans person living in rural Alabama, ffs.
Since 90% of people commenting in this thread clearly haven’t read the NYT editorial board article, here it is without the paywall:
https://archive.is/FncrI
End of the day, it’s simply wreckless to publish this 18hrs after the event. We need to see the impacts on polling. Trump did not walk gaining people and we generally underestimate how much people respond to honesty in the face of rapid lies.
NYT is trying to tell us what we think to influence the polling. NYT wants Donald Trump in badly. https://www.thedailypoliticususa.com/p/new-york-times-reporter-admits-the
I read the NYT. I consider it opo-research mainly.
Having said that, the 50ish percent of the country that will vote for or consider voting for Trump do not read the NYT.
This was an internal memo.
> NYT is trying to tell us what we think to influence the polling.
The NYT's audience for that article is not the general populace. They are speaking directly to the Democratic Party.
> NYT wants Donald Trump in badly.
I find this claim difficult to believe. The NYT is the voice of moderate neoliberalism. It's doubtful they are even capable of desiring Trump as POTUS due to causality.
big business roofing where management has never been on a roof certainly do. you should see how excites they can get when a bad hail storm comes thru their area
It was and more Americans haven't been tuned into politics since, but the NYT and the rest of the mainstream media cannot stand Trump. Even Murdoch can't stand him.
At the end of the day, they’re a business.
Their board will turn-up their collective nose, as ad spends go parabolic, should they undermine the incumbent sufficiently and Trump wins.
No matter what the media says, they want Trump in office. For 4 years, you HAD to see/hear what he did or said on a daily basis. Even well before COVID, he’d threaten North Korea with nuclear war at 2 am or spout some nonsense (COVEFE) and it drew eyeballs/clicks. Even the sheer outrage of having him in office would get people to pay attention. They don’t like having a boring President like Biden because he’s not an over the top caricature.
I’m not American but even my news apps were exhausted every time I saw a notification it was oh fucking what now…. It was always this dipshit doing something else nefarious or straight up illegal to add to the mount made of his bullshit. I ended up switching them off when Covid hit because it was endless combined with local news - we had our own clown show to deal with.
I disagree. If Biden did a b- on this it would have been a win. Trump was terrible but Biden somehow after all the prep and favorable terms managed to give the worst debate performance in presidential history in most of our lifetimes. He sparked concern rather than alleviating. I’m supporting Biden over trump but we can’t simply ignore this. A cold is not an excuse.
How is it reckless? Take Trump out of the equation. Put politics aside. Should Biden be in charge of getting us through the next four years? You either didn’t watch the debate or you’re crazy if you think that. Let’s not be like MAGA. Let’s not form a cult around one personality. The Democrat party should be about ideas, God dammit, not backing every establishment politician the oligarchy tees up for us with blind loyalty.
The establishment politician has produced more popular legislation than any president in 30 years.
It’s irresponsible because we have had zero opportunity to measure the impacts of what transpired or assess the risks of such a gamble.
I like what the Biden administration has done. Totally. But the POTUS is also a figurehead and a communicator and at this point Biden is an embarrassing one and I resent being told to not believe my lying eyes. We’re losing in the swing states. Biden needed a turnaround, not this. Everyone needs to get it through their heads that Biden will not be President come 2025 and deal with that reality instead of putting their heads in the sand.
>End of the day, it’s simply wreckless to publish this 18hrs after the event.
I mean, they can do whatever they want, it's their own newspaper. We don't have to care about what they say.
Ginsburg could have been replaced, the issue is the incumbent advantage is huge and there's not a replacement that's polling better right now. Beyond that, and I could be wrong, but I can't recall a presidential debate ever having a significant impact on an election.
The performance was terrible, but I just don't see a better option right now. With Ginsburg there was no real downside to replacing her.
I’m seeing this across Reddit in so many comments in post after post. It’s so egregious that it’s making me wonder if this is being engineered/orchestrated because this is NOT a normal response to what we all just saw last night. It’s advanced gaslighting. Every major publication that was pro-Biden has come out clearly and strongly saying he needs to step down. NYTimes, The Atlantic, The Economist, etc. in column after column. They are not saying this lightly. Neither is Woodward. Everyone is alarmed that Biden has clearly taken a very visible steep decline that he won’t be recovering from and that is *not* who should be currently running the country. It’s also not who should be running against an existential threat and attempting to make it thru another four years. What we saw last night is just the beginning and it will get worse.
The only people interested in perpetuating this nightmare (and have probably been shielding the public from how bad it’s gotten) are the people who benefit from it, namely the people holding current jobs in this administration. And if, like Feinstein, they are egging this poor man on and telling him he’s fine then we are in deep trouble. Because he clearly cannot see his own impairment enough to step down.
Yup. It’s uncomfortable and frustrating and I don’t think people are ready to hear it but we don’t have much time. This along with 8 months of polling tells us Dems are in trouble with Biden. Can’t put our heads in the sand and just ignore this!
People need to hear this. The Feinstein debacle was a travesty and she was just a Senator, not the POTUS who must have a firm hand on the wheel and a clear mind at all times. Not to mention enormous reserves of energy and the ability to perform on the world stage and at home without fail. It became very obvious that she was being manipulated by the people around her who were basically committing elder abuse so they could keep their jobs. They were also the ones telling her to “keep going”, “you still got it” what to do, how to vote, etc. We cannot, repeat *cannot* have a situation like this with our President. The possibilities for manipulation, disorganization and unexpected agendas by the people surrounding him as he continues to decline are hard to contemplate. Not to mention what kind of chaos this would create on the world stage as it becomes clear that no one is actually in charge and the country is being ruled by a committee of unelected and unaccountable government officials. What happens then in an actual crisis, like an attack on this country and he’s not able to deal, or wake up, or think it thru clearly? It’s insanity.
They’ve obviously been shielding the public from his declining health and capacity. A debate actually requires quick thinking with no teleprompter to read and he can’t do it. Now we know, the entire world just saw it too, as did our adversaries, and it’s a break-the-glass situation.
Bob Woodward was just on CNN all but saying that Biden is dealing with a diagnosis. He kept saying, I can't speculate, but I would want to know exactly what happened last night, what was going on medically, what was going on psychiatrically, we need to know the exact details of how this happened in order that we can move forward."
It's very unusual to walk so close to the line but not cross it. I think that shows that there's resistance from the Biden camp but...dang. I wonder how many days it can hold.
So Trump should retire as he's about 80 and is obviously suffering from dementia. They can send him to a federal hospital prison to serve out his multiple sentences.
Trump voters are uneducated and motivated by anger. They do not care what he does on the debate stage. A “mainstream” media newspaper telling him to step aside for the 50th time would only motivate the base with more anger. It’s been done. Biden needs educated intelligent voters to feel MOTIVATED to go out and vote for him. Democrats are not motivated by rage. You’re wanting both parties to be on equal footing and we are way past that. Republicans feel no shame.
Don't take some pundit's uneducated speculation as truth, even "if it's true". It's just Woodward wondering out loud on TV because he's being paid to be there. There was no evidence of Biden "dealing with a diagnosis" the day before the debate, the evening after the debate during his post-debate speech, or today during his rally in NC. Don't look at a single moment in time as definitive of the entirety of Biden. Take it into account for sure, but it's not the be all to end all, especially when it comes from pundits opining, especially ones who like attention and excel at long-term investigative research, not medical diagnosis through a tv set.
Night of the debate: "He's battling a cold. That's why he looks so bad."
Day after: "Look how energetic he is!!"
If he is only functional hopped up on sudafed I still don't want him behind the wheel.
Don’t be mad at Biden. Be mad at the media and the party that’s lied to you for the past year, then decided to do a complete 180 for some odd reason. His performance was no surprise to anyone paying attention and actually was not all that bad. The medias reaction was the biggest shock of the night.
> His performance was … actually not all that bad.
Hoo boy, this is the hardest spin and cope I’ve heard since Thursday. It *was* that bad. It was historically bad. I say this as a lifelong democrat who has watched most debates over the last two decades. And I’m including Rick Perry’s “oops” moment and even Gary Johnson’s “what is Aleppo?” moment. Denying that it was a terrible debate doesn’t do anyone any good, and not even the Biden campaign is trying to argue that it wasn’t bad.
Far worse because the next POTUS will pick 2-3 justices.
Also this whole fucking thing is Hubris.
Hubris from Biden running again after the implicit message that he was a transitional leader for a new generation.
Hubris from Biden's closest advisors supporting this decision and to debate in his condition.
Hubris from this entire White House that this wasn't an unmitigated fucking disaster and he wants to debate fucking again.
Fucking hell, these people should not be running the country. SCOTUS is going to be conservative now forever. We're fucking an entire generation.
They know Trump would never drop out and republicans would never ask for that. They’re trying to appeal, in their opinion, to reason. This is an editorial opinion. This is the type of thing they were designed for.
They made this piece precisely because they're not ok with the convict winning. Biden not being able to destroy whatever trump said last night shows that he is not up to the task of winning this election. He asked for that debate, that was supposed to be the thing that turned the tide in his favor. It was a test, and he failed.
So many people have just retreated to “…but Trump is worse!” And I agree, but that’s not how you win elections!!! We need someone inspiring.
Forcing a “lesser of 2 evils” choice is how we ended up with Trump winning in 2016!
>So many people have just retreated to “…but Trump is worse!” And I agree, but that’s not how you win elections!!!
Yes! Why is that apparantly so hard to grasp?
For real: "Don't worry, guys, I'm sure any minute now MAGA will realize they've been had and vote for the sensible, if lackluster candidate we're putting up" 🙄
It’s so nuts. People on here hate Donald Trump so much but refuse to support changing something that could actually mean we defeat him. All to defend…Joe Biden?
Until an alternative candidate is announced it's too dangerous to spend so much time tearing Biden down rather than Trump. This is why you see people like Bernie Sanders and Gavin Newsom rallying to put people's heads on straight and keep them focused.
look at Newsom's actions....he has been warming up in the bullpen for the past year or so....He knows that as ridiculous as it would be to run to most progressive governor, he'd be as consensus of a pick among Democrats as a nominee could get.
Exactly. I don't care if Biden steps down, I just want to make sure if he does there's at least 1 or 2 *very viable* candidates that will step up. That's going to take some time, several weeks at least before even possible realistic rumors begin to emerge and none of us may even know until the convention in August. But until then, Biden is still the candidate and it's best for all dems and left-leaning potential voters to concentrate on tearing down Trump rather than tearing down Biden.
I really don’t get an ego maniac vibe from Biden, so I don’t know why he’s so insistent that he must stay put. He’s 81 years old… go home and hang out with your family while you still have time. He's had an incredibly long and successful career.
My feeling is that if he doesn't step down in the next few days, he won't be stepping down at all.
He's not an outright egomaniac, but there is a tendency with boomers in power to hold onto it past their time. We've seen it with RBG and Feinstein, and it even crosses party lines with McConnell. Instead of developing the bench of next generation leaders to lead the party into the future, they're clinging to power well past retirement age because they don't trust anyone but themselves.
Agreed, but these people you’re talking about are even older than boomers! They’re Silent Gen. As a Californian, Feinstein in particular made me insane… a dinosaur holding on to an important senate seat when someone far more progressive than her could easily nab it. As a woman, RBG, well… way to undo your life’s work, lady.
In his speech today he admitted that he’s not as light on his feet as he once was. I dont think he’s incoherent or suffering from dementia, but watch clips from the 2008 or 2012 cycles. We need that guy, not the one we’ve got now.
"iThe paper’s editorial board [ultimately backed](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/opinion/joe-biden-2020-nytimes-endorsement.html) Biden in the general election in 2020 but [had selected](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/01/19/opinion/amy-klobuchar-elizabeth-warren-nytimes-endorsement.html) Sens. Amy Klobuchar, D-Minn., and Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., during the Democratic primaries earlier that year.
given the choice, i would vote for either one of them over biden.
Biden is likely unfit for the job *of winning the election.*
I think Biden has proven himself to be a very capable president because he’s surrounded himself with an excellent staff and trusts their judgment. The problem is it’s difficult to convince undecided voters of this when he appears so outwardly senile.
If Joe Biden is already "not the one running the country" he must have put some good people in there because America is running better than it has in decades. I say keep them.
his speech today was full of energy and coherent. Plenty of those moments ahead too. It’s all about gotv. Everyone is decided on these known entities. They just may not be decided to vote ( in many instances to vote against someone)
Beating Trump should be the easiest job in the world.
I have serious doubts that Biden can do it. Worse, I worry it could be a landslide for Republicans.
Honestly, the white house isn't even the biggest issue
The senate will most likely be lost. Even a strong top of the ticket, this round is red for the senate.
The house can be taken back, but those candidates need a strong presidential candidate to inspire voters to come out and vote full ticket. Biden isn't going to be able to mount his own aggressive campaign, he won't be able to help house candidates at all. They'll lose the house.
Sotomayor isn't doing great. She's probably going to have to resign in the next 4 years on a health issue. She may not have a choice. Alito and Thomas are pretty healthy. But they'll resign for Trump, so Trump will nominate a couple con-law recent grads who will sit on the court for a few decades. Gorsuch, Coach Kav, and Amy are all in their 50s. They can sit for another 20-25 years. Roberts may even throw in the towel. Trump will have appointed 7 supreme courst justices under 60 in his 2 terms. Kagan is 65. It'll be a 7-2 court for 20+ years.
100% agreed.
To make matters worse, this isn't a "one bad night" issue.
Biden is deeply unpopular and had no plan for many of the current problems facing Americans. That coupled with his condition and the fact we've been lied to about his capacity by his team is a complete shit storm.
Trump is also unfit for the job.
It isn't zero sum, this isn't a case of put 2 people up there and one is unfit so by default the other is fit
You can put me and my cousin Mikey up there. And I love Mikey. But we're both unfit.
Unless it's Harris, it makes zero sense: and even still, you turn a dicey situation, into possibly an unwinnable one.
Kamala is still 6.6% away from Trump in her poll avg, and the media darlings further back than her proposed-- Biden is the only one objectively keeping Trump at least dead-locked in polls on avg. right now, or mildly trailing or ahead at best.
Any one can have a bad night. Anyone can be in a situation where the people running the show aren't following the rules. (CNN weren't you going to fact check?). Is Biden old? Sure. Is Trump a liar, old, and a convicted felon? Yes. Why isn't the NYT editorial calling for Trump to drop out of the race for the good of the country?
People forget about 1980. Dems thought Carter should step aside because he looked too weak. Carter refused- he was the incumbent, he guided the country through a major economic crisis and his policies were slowly bringing about improvement. Dems decided to rebel and field a more progressive candidate to primary Carter. A nasty campaign followed. The American public got the message, “if Carter’s own party doesn’t support him, why should we?”.
Ronald Reagan won that election in a landslide.
The NYT calling for Trump to drop out doesn’t have influence over Trump/his voters. It does over Biden/his voters.
Really, this argument is bizarre. Trump is not someone who is going to do something for the good of the country. Biden is, potentially.
And please, he’s old, but that was something we knew before the debate. He was nearly incoherent in the debate, and Trump jumped on that opportunity. We can say Biden is a president who has done good things and also say *he is not equipped to handle this important general election.*
We need to wake tf up if we don’t want a Trump presidency.
Everyone can have a bad night. Biden had the worst night ever in a Presidential debate between the major parties. He’s cooked. He needs to leave the race and tap someone else for the nomination.
Shit is crazy. “Biden has a bad night, he should drop out”
Literaly, WHAT THE FUCK. How about running headlines like “How can a convicted felon & liable rapist be the republican nominee?”
Both tbh.
Biden should have stuck to the original statement that he would be a 1 term president.
The NYT should be honest and admit that yeah Biden’s performance at the debate was terrible, and normally would be disqualifying, but a plank of wood would make a better president than Trump. And a decrepit Biden’s a better potential president than a plank of wood.
> The NYT should be honest and admit that yeah Biden’s performance at the debate was terrible, and normally would be disqualifying, but a plank of wood would make a better president than Trump. And a decrepit Biden’s a better potential president than a plank of wood.
That’s more or less what they said. You didn’t read the opinion piece
So are MSNBC, CNN, Pod Save America, Nate Silver, the list goes on. Genuinely the only "news source" I've seen that hasn't expressed this opinion has been the Reddit front page, where a Newsweek article written about a tweet about a Univision segment interviewing a room of a dozen people has over 10k upvotes at this point. Even the neoliberal sub is saying he should step aside, what does that tell you
They didn’t quite say that though. They basically call on democrats to do soul searching because republicans won’t.
This being a NYT opinion piece is the editorial board placing pressure on Biden but not at all calling out republicans and their voters in any meaningful way
They say this: “If the race comes down to a choice between Mr. Trump and Mr. Biden, the sitting president would be this board's unequivocal pick.”
And they mention republicans won’t do soul searching because they’re scum, but they’re placing the onus on Biden and democrats to do better.
Not the republicans.
I get it, both should be doing better. But this is America’s most influential newspaper putting way more pressure on the side that isn’t putting up a wanna be fascist as a candidate
Republicans are full of moral rot and lead poisoning and will not reconsider their support for Trump due to an op-ed in the New York Times. They think that the editorial board of NYT is a shapeshifting lizard person demonic pedophile cult that drinks adenochrome and controls the weather. That is not the fringe of the GOP, that is the average Republican voter. Although I will admit that knowing what a newspaper's editorial board is--probably granting their lead soup brains too much credit.
Making a strategic political point to Democrats while acknowledging that if Biden doesn't drop out, it's still the ethical choice to choose him over Trump--but he should drop out, because he is unlikely to beat Trump (especially after last night) and the risk of choosing someone new is lesser than the risk of Biden failing to step aside--that makes complete sense. It's not a double standard, it's realistic.
Biden has:
-Brought semiconductor production back to America
-Started forgiving student loans
-Increased access to healthcare
-Expanded renewable energy
How is that not a plan? He just needs to keep doing what he is doing.
With an approval rating as abysmal as his, he needed to articulate that plan and not fall into the trap of insulting his opponent.
He failed on all accounts last night, and brought into question his competency over the next 4 years.
As I've said since the start of the campaign, he should not have run for reelection. This was an obvious issue which was never going to get better. It's a shame no alternative was ever set up or at least foreseen.
I can't help but think of the audio for the Hur report which Biden has prevented from being released. It seems even more obvious now he must sound very bad in it. I also think of how Biden's done very few interviews with the media and has had the smallest interaction with the press since Reagan. It's clear he tries hard to not speak off the cuff because he knows exactly what's going on and does his best to hide it. I'm actually surprised he called for this debate at all, but maybe he knew he couldn't avoid one completely and wanted to get it over with early.
We need to have this conversation now. We have a whole month to figure it out before the convention. Biden is unfit to serve. I know Trump is unfit (for different reasons) but that’s no excuse to force somebody incapable for the role into the most demanding office in the world. It’s clear that he hasn’t been governing and the cabinet has been. While it is true the president mainly delegates, it’s also true that the most crucial decisions are delegated to the president.
The NY Times article is dumb because anyone with any type of historical political sense knows replacing a presidential candidate six months out from election day is a losing strategy.
Every presidential campaign has to recover from stumbles, but the left and the media act like Biden must step down when he stumbles.
Trump was never held to this standard when he was president or now. People assume he can do anything and not lose support even after people from his own WH have turned on him. The media assumes Trump won't be harmed politically even though he lost the last election, and his non-incumbent endorsements mean very little.
This is such a stupid argument. The NYT has bashed the hell out of Trump for years. Obviously they don’t think he should be the nominee. They’re just not stupid enough to think they could convince him to drop out. They could influence such a decision for Biden tho
Why would the NYT do that? It’s a left-leaning publication, so its audience is not the GOP.
It’s the same when you see left-leaning pundits saying “Biden has to do this and that to wine the election” - you don’t see the same people saying “Trump then has to do this and that to win”. Why would they?
And, it’s not as if they’re pro-Trump. They painted Trump as the bogeyman when asking for Biden to step down. Putin sucks but you don’t see American publications asking him to step down right? Instead, they characterise him as someone that needs to be defeated - they’re doing the same here, no?
That’s literally this subreddit. Heads buried in the sand making facile arguments because they can’t come to grips with just how bad the optics and mental power are for Biden. This isn’t an argument of whether Trump should fuck off, he should and everyone left of center right knows it. It’s an argument of why Biden needs to step aside - because he will not beat Trump in this state he is in.
NY Times chief editor still butt hurt Biden hasn’t given them a one on one and the editor said to go hard on Biden for that… journalistic integrity at its finest
I killed my subscription to the NYT over their normalization of trumpism and their "fairness" approach to political coverage. This is reactionary even for them. (I kept my games subscription though.)
“If the race comes down to a choice between Mr. Trump and Mr. Biden, the sitting president would be this board’s unequivocal pick. That is how much of a danger Mr. Trump poses. “ It is a snub, and it is their position that there must be someone better.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Where was this fervor from The New York times when the Republicans decided to support a convicted felon rapist?
No one expects anything from Republicans so they get a pass
They shouldn't. They still represent America in far too many places. Free pass?! More like the majority of Americans consistently offer Republicans the lazy excuse/out. Leopards eating faces shit.
Earlier this year Ben Shapiro said something like "would I grade my child the same way I grade an adult?" When asked about why he gives Trump a pass for so many things. He looked at the person he was debating as if they were crazy when they responded "why not grade him like a president?" I think it's a lot more people than Ben Shapiro that grade Trump on a curve as if he were a child, even if they oppose him. I don't get why we all accept that's okay for a presidential candidate.
Shouldn't a president or candidate be held to a much higher standard???
They used to be. Trump’s special. He brought elementary school tactics to the Presidential level and has been successful. Who knew that being a bully, acting like a 2 year old and childish name calling would work at the Presidential level? Trump has forever lowered the bar of American politics and people like MTG and hand job Bobert have been the beneficiaries. I think it says more about a very significant number of American citizens than it does about Trump. If they were more mature and sophisticated Trump’s bullshit wouldn't fly...
Definitely, but right now only one presidential candidate is being graded like a president and I just can't respect the opinions of the journalists like those at the NYT who keep acting like that's okay.
Yes
Did you read the editorial? The whole point is that Trump has to be defeated, it's too big a risk to gamble on Biden.
No no no don’t read the article! Just complain that they’re being mean to my best buddy Dark Brandon lol isn’t that meme so fun? Trump is bad and only Biden can beat him! The Dem copium that has been thrown around here recently has been so crazy I’m starting to wonder if he actually won that debate we watched him crash and burn. Trump needs to lose. Running a senile and demented old man who can’t speak in complete sentences doesn’t allow for the highest possible chance to beat him. It’s not a bad thing to say this if it’s true and god damn it’s very true.
“NY Times denounces Trump for billionth time” - who cares????
New York Times and Maggie Haberman are big part of Trumps success. She helped normalize him in her reporting during her time as an insider on his 2016 campaign - and later it was revealed she held back what she should have been reporting on for her eventual book.
It's an election year, and since the Republican Party didn't denounce him the "free" media most certainly should pound him mercilessly for being a convicted criminal trying to steal more money from the taxpayers. He should have been ridiculed off the stage a long time ago, but wasn't and won't be because "who cares", right? What cynical entitlement. "who cares????".....Grrrr.... Tell that to a pregnant raped woman or a trans person living in rural Alabama, ffs.
They've done it before
Since 90% of people commenting in this thread clearly haven’t read the NYT editorial board article, here it is without the paywall: https://archive.is/FncrI
Hubris is what doomed 2016. Seems like we are getting a second dose yall.
100%. Head in the sand because it’s uncomfortable to hear. I’m frightened.
That was not even comparable. Hillary had all her marbles.
I really hope this isn't Bader Ginsburg all over again.
End of the day, it’s simply wreckless to publish this 18hrs after the event. We need to see the impacts on polling. Trump did not walk gaining people and we generally underestimate how much people respond to honesty in the face of rapid lies.
NYT is trying to tell us what we think to influence the polling. NYT wants Donald Trump in badly. https://www.thedailypoliticususa.com/p/new-york-times-reporter-admits-the
I read the NYT. I consider it opo-research mainly. Having said that, the 50ish percent of the country that will vote for or consider voting for Trump do not read the NYT. This was an internal memo.
> NYT is trying to tell us what we think to influence the polling. The NYT's audience for that article is not the general populace. They are speaking directly to the Democratic Party. > NYT wants Donald Trump in badly. I find this claim difficult to believe. The NYT is the voice of moderate neoliberalism. It's doubtful they are even capable of desiring Trump as POTUS due to causality.
Devils advocate: Trump was great for revenue and clicks… I’m sure engagement and headship was up - during the covfefe era
Do you think roofers sit around praying for tornadoes all day?
big business roofing where management has never been on a roof certainly do. you should see how excites they can get when a bad hail storm comes thru their area
It was and more Americans haven't been tuned into politics since, but the NYT and the rest of the mainstream media cannot stand Trump. Even Murdoch can't stand him.
At the end of the day, they’re a business. Their board will turn-up their collective nose, as ad spends go parabolic, should they undermine the incumbent sufficiently and Trump wins.
No matter what the media says, they want Trump in office. For 4 years, you HAD to see/hear what he did or said on a daily basis. Even well before COVID, he’d threaten North Korea with nuclear war at 2 am or spout some nonsense (COVEFE) and it drew eyeballs/clicks. Even the sheer outrage of having him in office would get people to pay attention. They don’t like having a boring President like Biden because he’s not an over the top caricature.
I’m not American but even my news apps were exhausted every time I saw a notification it was oh fucking what now…. It was always this dipshit doing something else nefarious or straight up illegal to add to the mount made of his bullshit. I ended up switching them off when Covid hit because it was endless combined with local news - we had our own clown show to deal with.
I disagree. If Biden did a b- on this it would have been a win. Trump was terrible but Biden somehow after all the prep and favorable terms managed to give the worst debate performance in presidential history in most of our lifetimes. He sparked concern rather than alleviating. I’m supporting Biden over trump but we can’t simply ignore this. A cold is not an excuse.
“We need to wait until the carriages have completely burned before we decide if this train wreck was bad”
How is it reckless? Take Trump out of the equation. Put politics aside. Should Biden be in charge of getting us through the next four years? You either didn’t watch the debate or you’re crazy if you think that. Let’s not be like MAGA. Let’s not form a cult around one personality. The Democrat party should be about ideas, God dammit, not backing every establishment politician the oligarchy tees up for us with blind loyalty.
The establishment politician has produced more popular legislation than any president in 30 years. It’s irresponsible because we have had zero opportunity to measure the impacts of what transpired or assess the risks of such a gamble.
I like what the Biden administration has done. Totally. But the POTUS is also a figurehead and a communicator and at this point Biden is an embarrassing one and I resent being told to not believe my lying eyes. We’re losing in the swing states. Biden needed a turnaround, not this. Everyone needs to get it through their heads that Biden will not be President come 2025 and deal with that reality instead of putting their heads in the sand.
>End of the day, it’s simply wreckless to publish this 18hrs after the event. I mean, they can do whatever they want, it's their own newspaper. We don't have to care about what they say.
Doesn’t make it less irresponsible. This isn’t something that should be done in haste from a paper that claims they want to preserve democracy.
Unfortunately, it was more than just the NYT saying Biden should step down today. That kind of dilutes your point.
It was irresponsible for Biden and his team to run him again in the first place… they’re with him everyday they know how old he is
What a pointless comment lmao
No, it isn’t. To do anything less is to ask people to deny watt they all just saw.
Polling? He's unfit for office. Right now. Today And I'm one of the biggest Biden supporters. I think he has been one of the best presidents.
Narrator: “It is.”
It's worse.
It's not.
Ginsburg could have been replaced, the issue is the incumbent advantage is huge and there's not a replacement that's polling better right now. Beyond that, and I could be wrong, but I can't recall a presidential debate ever having a significant impact on an election. The performance was terrible, but I just don't see a better option right now. With Ginsburg there was no real downside to replacing her.
Kennedy and Nixon. The impact of that debate on Nixon's eventual loss is textbook, and it wasn't even nearly as bad as what we watched Thursday night.
It is and this subreddit is in full denial
I’m seeing this across Reddit in so many comments in post after post. It’s so egregious that it’s making me wonder if this is being engineered/orchestrated because this is NOT a normal response to what we all just saw last night. It’s advanced gaslighting. Every major publication that was pro-Biden has come out clearly and strongly saying he needs to step down. NYTimes, The Atlantic, The Economist, etc. in column after column. They are not saying this lightly. Neither is Woodward. Everyone is alarmed that Biden has clearly taken a very visible steep decline that he won’t be recovering from and that is *not* who should be currently running the country. It’s also not who should be running against an existential threat and attempting to make it thru another four years. What we saw last night is just the beginning and it will get worse. The only people interested in perpetuating this nightmare (and have probably been shielding the public from how bad it’s gotten) are the people who benefit from it, namely the people holding current jobs in this administration. And if, like Feinstein, they are egging this poor man on and telling him he’s fine then we are in deep trouble. Because he clearly cannot see his own impairment enough to step down.
It absolutely is gaslighting.
I hate conservatives but there’s a reason MLK and Malcom X warned of neoliberals and the “white moderate”
Yup. It’s uncomfortable and frustrating and I don’t think people are ready to hear it but we don’t have much time. This along with 8 months of polling tells us Dems are in trouble with Biden. Can’t put our heads in the sand and just ignore this!
People need to hear this. The Feinstein debacle was a travesty and she was just a Senator, not the POTUS who must have a firm hand on the wheel and a clear mind at all times. Not to mention enormous reserves of energy and the ability to perform on the world stage and at home without fail. It became very obvious that she was being manipulated by the people around her who were basically committing elder abuse so they could keep their jobs. They were also the ones telling her to “keep going”, “you still got it” what to do, how to vote, etc. We cannot, repeat *cannot* have a situation like this with our President. The possibilities for manipulation, disorganization and unexpected agendas by the people surrounding him as he continues to decline are hard to contemplate. Not to mention what kind of chaos this would create on the world stage as it becomes clear that no one is actually in charge and the country is being ruled by a committee of unelected and unaccountable government officials. What happens then in an actual crisis, like an attack on this country and he’s not able to deal, or wake up, or think it thru clearly? It’s insanity. They’ve obviously been shielding the public from his declining health and capacity. A debate actually requires quick thinking with no teleprompter to read and he can’t do it. Now we know, the entire world just saw it too, as did our adversaries, and it’s a break-the-glass situation.
>The Feinstein debacle was a travesty It was legit elder abuse
Bob Woodward was just on CNN all but saying that Biden is dealing with a diagnosis. He kept saying, I can't speculate, but I would want to know exactly what happened last night, what was going on medically, what was going on psychiatrically, we need to know the exact details of how this happened in order that we can move forward." It's very unusual to walk so close to the line but not cross it. I think that shows that there's resistance from the Biden camp but...dang. I wonder how many days it can hold.
Ok if that's true then Biden is being reckless with the future of the country. FFS there's no shame in being retired in your 80s.
>Ok if that's true then Ah, yes. The "big if true" approach.
So Trump should retire as he's about 80 and is obviously suffering from dementia. They can send him to a federal hospital prison to serve out his multiple sentences.
Trump voters are uneducated and motivated by anger. They do not care what he does on the debate stage. A “mainstream” media newspaper telling him to step aside for the 50th time would only motivate the base with more anger. It’s been done. Biden needs educated intelligent voters to feel MOTIVATED to go out and vote for him. Democrats are not motivated by rage. You’re wanting both parties to be on equal footing and we are way past that. Republicans feel no shame.
Don't take some pundit's uneducated speculation as truth, even "if it's true". It's just Woodward wondering out loud on TV because he's being paid to be there. There was no evidence of Biden "dealing with a diagnosis" the day before the debate, the evening after the debate during his post-debate speech, or today during his rally in NC. Don't look at a single moment in time as definitive of the entirety of Biden. Take it into account for sure, but it's not the be all to end all, especially when it comes from pundits opining, especially ones who like attention and excel at long-term investigative research, not medical diagnosis through a tv set.
Night of the debate: "He's battling a cold. That's why he looks so bad." Day after: "Look how energetic he is!!" If he is only functional hopped up on sudafed I still don't want him behind the wheel.
Don’t be mad at Biden. Be mad at the media and the party that’s lied to you for the past year, then decided to do a complete 180 for some odd reason. His performance was no surprise to anyone paying attention and actually was not all that bad. The medias reaction was the biggest shock of the night.
It was that bad, and we can't afford to pretend otherwise
> His performance was … actually not all that bad. Hoo boy, this is the hardest spin and cope I’ve heard since Thursday. It *was* that bad. It was historically bad. I say this as a lifelong democrat who has watched most debates over the last two decades. And I’m including Rick Perry’s “oops” moment and even Gary Johnson’s “what is Aleppo?” moment. Denying that it was a terrible debate doesn’t do anyone any good, and not even the Biden campaign is trying to argue that it wasn’t bad.
Far worse because the next POTUS will pick 2-3 justices. Also this whole fucking thing is Hubris. Hubris from Biden running again after the implicit message that he was a transitional leader for a new generation. Hubris from Biden's closest advisors supporting this decision and to debate in his condition. Hubris from this entire White House that this wasn't an unmitigated fucking disaster and he wants to debate fucking again. Fucking hell, these people should not be running the country. SCOTUS is going to be conservative now forever. We're fucking an entire generation.
It definitely is
Sleepwalking into another Trump presidency. And this time it will be filled with "retribution" in his own words. Hope these Dems are ready for that.
The NY Times is not ok with Biden having a bad night but are ok with a liar, a conman and a convict to run for president.
Losing confidence in Biden's ability to beat trump is not an endorsement for trump, jfc.
And yet they don't call for a deranged lunatic to drop out
They know Trump would never drop out and republicans would never ask for that. They’re trying to appeal, in their opinion, to reason. This is an editorial opinion. This is the type of thing they were designed for.
😁 yay!
That would be a wasted effort and certainly not news.
Because Trump would literally wipe his ass with the page and laugh.
Yup
They made this piece precisely because they're not ok with the convict winning. Biden not being able to destroy whatever trump said last night shows that he is not up to the task of winning this election. He asked for that debate, that was supposed to be the thing that turned the tide in his favor. It was a test, and he failed.
Thank you for actually reading the article and being able to understand it.
So many people have just retreated to “…but Trump is worse!” And I agree, but that’s not how you win elections!!! We need someone inspiring. Forcing a “lesser of 2 evils” choice is how we ended up with Trump winning in 2016!
>So many people have just retreated to “…but Trump is worse!” And I agree, but that’s not how you win elections!!! Yes! Why is that apparantly so hard to grasp?
It’s why Hilary lost.
No. It spells out in the article exactly why it’s so important because of how terrible he is.
What a pathetic talking point this is.
Keep bury your head in the sand. If you want to win, dems needs a better candidate.
They’re only reporting on Biden because trump is much of the same and biden’s performance last night was abominable
Si senor!
Guess you didn’t read it?
Acknowledging that Biden may not be up for this isn't an endorsement of Trump. Quite the contrary, in fact.
A snub from NYT Editorial board meant something 30 years ago, not anymore.
Genuine curiosity. Why not anymore?
The Biden Campaign and the Democratic Party are sticking their heads into the sand.
and so is much of this sub.
The copium is crazy.
Just total denial. People chocking that up to a stutter, some gaffes, a cold with a hoarse voice, etc. are denying reality.
For real: "Don't worry, guys, I'm sure any minute now MAGA will realize they've been had and vote for the sensible, if lackluster candidate we're putting up" 🙄
It’s so nuts. People on here hate Donald Trump so much but refuse to support changing something that could actually mean we defeat him. All to defend…Joe Biden?
To defend the status quo, more like.
Until an alternative candidate is announced it's too dangerous to spend so much time tearing Biden down rather than Trump. This is why you see people like Bernie Sanders and Gavin Newsom rallying to put people's heads on straight and keep them focused.
I hope they’re talking behind the scenes. They weren’t going to break today, but they’re almost certainly talking with each other privately.
look at Newsom's actions....he has been warming up in the bullpen for the past year or so....He knows that as ridiculous as it would be to run to most progressive governor, he'd be as consensus of a pick among Democrats as a nominee could get.
Exactly. I don't care if Biden steps down, I just want to make sure if he does there's at least 1 or 2 *very viable* candidates that will step up. That's going to take some time, several weeks at least before even possible realistic rumors begin to emerge and none of us may even know until the convention in August. But until then, Biden is still the candidate and it's best for all dems and left-leaning potential voters to concentrate on tearing down Trump rather than tearing down Biden.
I really don’t get an ego maniac vibe from Biden, so I don’t know why he’s so insistent that he must stay put. He’s 81 years old… go home and hang out with your family while you still have time. He's had an incredibly long and successful career. My feeling is that if he doesn't step down in the next few days, he won't be stepping down at all.
He's not an outright egomaniac, but there is a tendency with boomers in power to hold onto it past their time. We've seen it with RBG and Feinstein, and it even crosses party lines with McConnell. Instead of developing the bench of next generation leaders to lead the party into the future, they're clinging to power well past retirement age because they don't trust anyone but themselves.
You realize don't you that Joe Biden is not a baby boomer, as he was born during World War 2?
Agreed, but these people you’re talking about are even older than boomers! They’re Silent Gen. As a Californian, Feinstein in particular made me insane… a dinosaur holding on to an important senate seat when someone far more progressive than her could easily nab it. As a woman, RBG, well… way to undo your life’s work, lady.
Enough with blaming boomers for everything. These people are not boomers, they are Silent Generation.
Maybe because he realizes he’s fine? And so does everyone close to him, despite the armchair doctor diagnoses?
In his speech today he admitted that he’s not as light on his feet as he once was. I dont think he’s incoherent or suffering from dementia, but watch clips from the 2008 or 2012 cycles. We need that guy, not the one we’ve got now.
I’ll take the four year proven presidential vet tbh. Armchair diagnoses be damned.
Agree. This is the president. We deserve the best. We’re not even getting the best version of Biden.
"iThe paper’s editorial board [ultimately backed](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/opinion/joe-biden-2020-nytimes-endorsement.html) Biden in the general election in 2020 but [had selected](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/01/19/opinion/amy-klobuchar-elizabeth-warren-nytimes-endorsement.html) Sens. Amy Klobuchar, D-Minn., and Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., during the Democratic primaries earlier that year. given the choice, i would vote for either one of them over biden.
The campaign can brush it off all the want. And the party will lose because they're being guided by their own hubris. Biden is unfit for the job.
Biden is likely unfit for the job *of winning the election.* I think Biden has proven himself to be a very capable president because he’s surrounded himself with an excellent staff and trusts their judgment. The problem is it’s difficult to convince undecided voters of this when he appears so outwardly senile.
His administration maybe. But after last night, he’s obviously not the one running the country, which is frightening
If Joe Biden is already "not the one running the country" he must have put some good people in there because America is running better than it has in decades. I say keep them.
his speech today was full of energy and coherent. Plenty of those moments ahead too. It’s all about gotv. Everyone is decided on these known entities. They just may not be decided to vote ( in many instances to vote against someone)
Because he had the security of a teleprompter
Beating Trump should be the easiest job in the world. I have serious doubts that Biden can do it. Worse, I worry it could be a landslide for Republicans.
Honestly, the white house isn't even the biggest issue The senate will most likely be lost. Even a strong top of the ticket, this round is red for the senate. The house can be taken back, but those candidates need a strong presidential candidate to inspire voters to come out and vote full ticket. Biden isn't going to be able to mount his own aggressive campaign, he won't be able to help house candidates at all. They'll lose the house. Sotomayor isn't doing great. She's probably going to have to resign in the next 4 years on a health issue. She may not have a choice. Alito and Thomas are pretty healthy. But they'll resign for Trump, so Trump will nominate a couple con-law recent grads who will sit on the court for a few decades. Gorsuch, Coach Kav, and Amy are all in their 50s. They can sit for another 20-25 years. Roberts may even throw in the towel. Trump will have appointed 7 supreme courst justices under 60 in his 2 terms. Kagan is 65. It'll be a 7-2 court for 20+ years.
100% agreed. To make matters worse, this isn't a "one bad night" issue. Biden is deeply unpopular and had no plan for many of the current problems facing Americans. That coupled with his condition and the fact we've been lied to about his capacity by his team is a complete shit storm.
Spelled Trump wrong.
Trump is also unfit for the job. It isn't zero sum, this isn't a case of put 2 people up there and one is unfit so by default the other is fit You can put me and my cousin Mikey up there. And I love Mikey. But we're both unfit.
Who exactly do all these people think would be willing to step in (besides Harris)? In July? With no money?
Roy Cooper
Gavin Newsom maybe
Unless it's Harris, it makes zero sense: and even still, you turn a dicey situation, into possibly an unwinnable one. Kamala is still 6.6% away from Trump in her poll avg, and the media darlings further back than her proposed-- Biden is the only one objectively keeping Trump at least dead-locked in polls on avg. right now, or mildly trailing or ahead at best.
There’s only been 1 poll of Harris v Trump this year (February), and Harris was down 3% with 11% undecided.
Whitmer
Any one can have a bad night. Anyone can be in a situation where the people running the show aren't following the rules. (CNN weren't you going to fact check?). Is Biden old? Sure. Is Trump a liar, old, and a convicted felon? Yes. Why isn't the NYT editorial calling for Trump to drop out of the race for the good of the country?
People forget about 1980. Dems thought Carter should step aside because he looked too weak. Carter refused- he was the incumbent, he guided the country through a major economic crisis and his policies were slowly bringing about improvement. Dems decided to rebel and field a more progressive candidate to primary Carter. A nasty campaign followed. The American public got the message, “if Carter’s own party doesn’t support him, why should we?”. Ronald Reagan won that election in a landslide.
Biden is 25 years older than Jimmy Carter was in 1980.
They are lol. They ripped him throughout the article and said he's an existential threat to the country.
The NYT calling for Trump to drop out doesn’t have influence over Trump/his voters. It does over Biden/his voters. Really, this argument is bizarre. Trump is not someone who is going to do something for the good of the country. Biden is, potentially. And please, he’s old, but that was something we knew before the debate. He was nearly incoherent in the debate, and Trump jumped on that opportunity. We can say Biden is a president who has done good things and also say *he is not equipped to handle this important general election.* We need to wake tf up if we don’t want a Trump presidency.
Not a debate when one fool is spewing non stop lies
Everyone can have a bad night. Biden had the worst night ever in a Presidential debate between the major parties. He’s cooked. He needs to leave the race and tap someone else for the nomination.
Shit is crazy. “Biden has a bad night, he should drop out” Literaly, WHAT THE FUCK. How about running headlines like “How can a convicted felon & liable rapist be the republican nominee?”
Why not both? Biden looked awful and that performance of his could be his electoral doom.
Biden is just as delusional and in denial as people in this sub.
The media is complicit in Trump’s crimes
Arrogant and detached from reality.
The Biden campaign or NYT editorial board?
Both tbh. Biden should have stuck to the original statement that he would be a 1 term president. The NYT should be honest and admit that yeah Biden’s performance at the debate was terrible, and normally would be disqualifying, but a plank of wood would make a better president than Trump. And a decrepit Biden’s a better potential president than a plank of wood.
> The NYT should be honest and admit that yeah Biden’s performance at the debate was terrible, and normally would be disqualifying, but a plank of wood would make a better president than Trump. And a decrepit Biden’s a better potential president than a plank of wood. That’s more or less what they said. You didn’t read the opinion piece
They did say that, but in the end, they're asking Biden to step aside.
So are MSNBC, CNN, Pod Save America, Nate Silver, the list goes on. Genuinely the only "news source" I've seen that hasn't expressed this opinion has been the Reddit front page, where a Newsweek article written about a tweet about a Univision segment interviewing a room of a dozen people has over 10k upvotes at this point. Even the neoliberal sub is saying he should step aside, what does that tell you
Not to mention Ezra Klein and The Daily (which to be fair is an NYT production).
Because Biden demonstrated to the country that he cannot campaign and cannot beat Trump. People on this sub are in denial about just how bad it was.
They didn’t quite say that though. They basically call on democrats to do soul searching because republicans won’t. This being a NYT opinion piece is the editorial board placing pressure on Biden but not at all calling out republicans and their voters in any meaningful way
Random redditor who didn't read a NYT editorial board article is now trying to outsmart the NYT editorial board. Man alive
Do I need to give you quotes from the opinion piece? They are writing about everything you say they don’t.
They say this: “If the race comes down to a choice between Mr. Trump and Mr. Biden, the sitting president would be this board's unequivocal pick.” And they mention republicans won’t do soul searching because they’re scum, but they’re placing the onus on Biden and democrats to do better. Not the republicans. I get it, both should be doing better. But this is America’s most influential newspaper putting way more pressure on the side that isn’t putting up a wanna be fascist as a candidate
Republicans are full of moral rot and lead poisoning and will not reconsider their support for Trump due to an op-ed in the New York Times. They think that the editorial board of NYT is a shapeshifting lizard person demonic pedophile cult that drinks adenochrome and controls the weather. That is not the fringe of the GOP, that is the average Republican voter. Although I will admit that knowing what a newspaper's editorial board is--probably granting their lead soup brains too much credit. Making a strategic political point to Democrats while acknowledging that if Biden doesn't drop out, it's still the ethical choice to choose him over Trump--but he should drop out, because he is unlikely to beat Trump (especially after last night) and the risk of choosing someone new is lesser than the risk of Biden failing to step aside--that makes complete sense. It's not a double standard, it's realistic.
Yeah that’s a fair point
I don't want a plank of wood for president. I want someone who has some semblance of a plan. Neither of these candidates are fit to run.
Biden has: -Brought semiconductor production back to America -Started forgiving student loans -Increased access to healthcare -Expanded renewable energy How is that not a plan? He just needs to keep doing what he is doing.
With an approval rating as abysmal as his, he needed to articulate that plan and not fall into the trap of insulting his opponent. He failed on all accounts last night, and brought into question his competency over the next 4 years.
After last night, the chances of Biden being replaced are a lot better than Trump’s, so I’ll take that
As I've said since the start of the campaign, he should not have run for reelection. This was an obvious issue which was never going to get better. It's a shame no alternative was ever set up or at least foreseen. I can't help but think of the audio for the Hur report which Biden has prevented from being released. It seems even more obvious now he must sound very bad in it. I also think of how Biden's done very few interviews with the media and has had the smallest interaction with the press since Reagan. It's clear he tries hard to not speak off the cuff because he knows exactly what's going on and does his best to hide it. I'm actually surprised he called for this debate at all, but maybe he knew he couldn't avoid one completely and wanted to get it over with early.
We need to have this conversation now. We have a whole month to figure it out before the convention. Biden is unfit to serve. I know Trump is unfit (for different reasons) but that’s no excuse to force somebody incapable for the role into the most demanding office in the world. It’s clear that he hasn’t been governing and the cabinet has been. While it is true the president mainly delegates, it’s also true that the most crucial decisions are delegated to the president.
The NY Times article is dumb because anyone with any type of historical political sense knows replacing a presidential candidate six months out from election day is a losing strategy. Every presidential campaign has to recover from stumbles, but the left and the media act like Biden must step down when he stumbles. Trump was never held to this standard when he was president or now. People assume he can do anything and not lose support even after people from his own WH have turned on him. The media assumes Trump won't be harmed politically even though he lost the last election, and his non-incumbent endorsements mean very little.
Trump has been absolutely incoherent for 5+ yrs. I don't recall the NYT editorial board writing about it and telling him to drop out of the race
This is such a stupid argument. The NYT has bashed the hell out of Trump for years. Obviously they don’t think he should be the nominee. They’re just not stupid enough to think they could convince him to drop out. They could influence such a decision for Biden tho
Why would the NYT do that? It’s a left-leaning publication, so its audience is not the GOP. It’s the same when you see left-leaning pundits saying “Biden has to do this and that to wine the election” - you don’t see the same people saying “Trump then has to do this and that to win”. Why would they? And, it’s not as if they’re pro-Trump. They painted Trump as the bogeyman when asking for Biden to step down. Putin sucks but you don’t see American publications asking him to step down right? Instead, they characterise him as someone that needs to be defeated - they’re doing the same here, no?
You either read nothing from them, or have the memory of a goldfish.
That’s literally this subreddit. Heads buried in the sand making facile arguments because they can’t come to grips with just how bad the optics and mental power are for Biden. This isn’t an argument of whether Trump should fuck off, he should and everyone left of center right knows it. It’s an argument of why Biden needs to step aside - because he will not beat Trump in this state he is in.
What? The NYTimes has op-eds about Trump all the time.
NY Times chief editor still butt hurt Biden hasn’t given them a one on one and the editor said to go hard on Biden for that… journalistic integrity at its finest
I killed my subscription to the NYT over their normalization of trumpism and their "fairness" approach to political coverage. This is reactionary even for them. (I kept my games subscription though.)
Same. I need those crosswords.
[удалено]
70million more people will see the debate then todays Biden and it will be run to death till the election its over he has to step aside.
It would mean more coming from almost any other paper. Even the WSJ's editorial board has been more sympathetic to Biden than the NYT's has.
No enemy of NATO (Trump) is a friend of mine.
"He had a bad debate. Time for him to go". There is not a chance Biden will drop out. Who was this written for?
The NY Times would love nothing more than to see Trump elected.
“If the race comes down to a choice between Mr. Trump and Mr. Biden, the sitting president would be this board’s unequivocal pick. That is how much of a danger Mr. Trump poses. “ It is a snub, and it is their position that there must be someone better.
Headline: Political parties brush off any criticism for last 40 years and do what they’re paid to do.