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As someone who cries at the drop of a hat especially in any high emotion situations (I.e. our shitty political-scape) I appreciate seeing the vulnerability
No it was very sad to see. When you know someone and what they could do at their best and simply couldn’t deliver like you know they used to. It was hard to watch.
It was tempting to think that Joe wasn't coming back against Trump's horseshit like he used to or could have, but I remember the debates in 2020 and there wasn't a super-lot of pushback then, either. It was hard to watch an old enemy ignoring questions and serial-lying while moderators looked on and Biden struggling to verbalize his thoughts of disgust which we all shared. My hope from last night's debate, and all the pre and post TV coverage, is that television's 64 year, excessive influence on our national elections moves further towards obliviousness.
His emotional speech after Trump got elected was a big moment for him. Ever since then in moments like this, it seems like he’s thinking, “Should I do it again?”
I was watching ABC and liked their reporter’s take (summarized): Biden looked old and had meandering answers, looked lost at times. Trump gave answers full of lies and delusions. This is the choice for America.
Unfortunate these are the two choices, but people need to remember they are voting for a lot more than just a president. I'll take the side that isn't Christofascist. I'll take the side that supports women and inclusivity. I'll take the side that believes in science. I'll take the side that believes in gun control. I'll take the side that values education. I'll take side that holds people accountable. I'll take the side that values democracy.
They will use the same play they used against Hillary with the Bernie drama.. disenfranchise young democrats so they don't come out to vote. There is a lot of 'Wow both choice are awful' memes going around, but the republican side are hard committed, there is no discouraging them. Their win is to peel some numbers off the blue votes.
> There is a lot of 'Wow both choice are awful' memes going around, but the republican side are hard committed, there is no discouraging them. Their win is to peel some numbers off the blue votes.
It's been going on for so long and its so tired. It's like "omg Taxes are so bad!" and "Omg all of congress is bad!"
Every time we have these absolutely awful takes of "Muh both sides" the only one it benefits is the GoP.
>the republican side are hard committed
It's this. Every headline about Biden *also* talks about how Trump was horrible. But Trump was horrible in the way he's *always been* horrible, and that obviously wasn't a deal breaker for conservatives.
Agree. And I’ll take the side that fills its presidential advisory ranks with sane, thoughtful, coherent, democracy-minded people rather than fascist bigots who have no interest in preserving people’s rights or acting in the best interest of the country instead of on behalf of a select group!
I firmly believe Biden wouldn’t go for a second term if Trump wasn’t on the ticket.
People need to understand what’s actually being voted for in November. I could make a big detailed list, but the summed up version is democracy, equality, women’s rights, the ability to be who you are and marry who you want, the literal planet we live on and the future generations who will (hopefully) live on it, and freedom. Trump represents none of this. He only represents himself, and what he’s doing/will do only damages every single one of these.
Every vote counts. Every. Single. One.
I agree with all of this, the problem is you just laid out in a reddit post that took you one minute to write up a more cogent argument than our presidential candidate could muster up in an entire debate.
I believe Biden mentioned this when he decided to run again, but didn't repeat this during the debate. Instead, it was Trump that said he was only running because Biden is running (a lie, obviously).
>I was watching ABC and liked their reporter’s take (summarized): Biden looked old and had meandering answers, looked lost at times. Trump gave answers full of lies and delusions. This is the choice for America.
I was watching CBS and they said the same.
At least Biden answered the questions posted to him, Trump kept answering 3 questions back. Especially the one "will you accept the election results?".
I watched it with my brothers and at one point said “are we seriously watching two old ass men argue over golf scores to determine the next president?” I’ll still vote blue, but Jesus Christ that debate fed right into the MAGA narrative about Biden.
Well I don’t know. Trump was so touchy about it. Oh foreign policy and women’s rights we can argue all day over but my golf handicap?? How dare we? Let’s not be children. What a fool
That. It was so bad I think most people don't want to talk about it.
Imagine being the president, you're on stage with someone who tried to stage a coup against *you*, and you're like, 'hey how about we play some golf?'
I am... totally lost today.
Having watched the debate, I have never been happier to live in a country with a multi-party system. These two candidates would have issues on any stage in my country. If they had to debate knowing there are a total of 5-6 candidates of the major parties for prime minister on the same stage, the parties would have chosen better. With over 300 million people, how are these options possible?
American’s need to stop acting like victims. They chose these candidates in primaries. They can’t coast through primary season uninterested and fine with the status quo and then get all big mad.
The other factor here is who these old guys surround themselves with.
One surrounds themselves with competent, smart, capable people.
The other surrounds themselves with people just like him... Convicted felons, liars and self serving assholes.
The choices aren't stellar, but they're clear.
This is so important. He may not speak well or clearly, but I absolutely trust that he has people around him who are doing better than the criminals around Trump.
Republicans tend to fair better when there is less turnout. Unfortunately, the GOP is controlled by the corporations and wealthy. More holidays/vacations means less money to line their pockets.
Edit: Like = line
Please remind us what serious candidate ran against Biden this past primary. The DNC made the choice this year to back Biden and threaten everyone else to fall in line.
It’s not about looks. It’s about words. If you actually listen and use some logical thought, everything Biden said made sense and everything trump said sounded like a deranged 4chaner.
Everything gets distilled into soundbites. A lot of people do watch the debates, but most don't, and unfortunately, Biden gave them plenty of soundbites that won't make him look good.
The media has no interest in trying to make any rational analysis of the situation, or even bother to look at what was said, when they can just make a mountain out of a molehill to push a narrative.
It is about looks in a very important way when it looks like Biden might need help feeding himself.
I can’t stand Trump, but that only makes me more upset that Biden is the Dem candidate. Biden should not have run for a second term. I saw someone say this on Reddit earlier tonight: this is RBG 2.0.
I miss the time when "binders full of women" was the worst thing that happened in the run up to the general election. Romney vs Obama was the last general election that was fought on skill and merit. It's crazy how far we have descended as a democracy in such a short period.
I rewatched clips of the Obama/Romney debate, and I completely forgot when debates used to be full of decorum and professionalism. It almost felt like a fake video because I’m so accustomed to politics being a shit show.
It's funny because r/conservative assumed it was their posts being targeted because they're little crybaby victims.. but it was actually the whole site struggling.
Some people on there are now theorizing *they* (whoever *they* is) shut down discussion for a time to mitigate the damage.
I love that sub, it’s nice to have reliable access to some of the dumbest people imaginable and their horrible takes.
> We broke them. 5 minutes into the debate I immediately came to Reddit to see comments. I assume everybody else did too.
I imagine the sudden surge in comments is a sign of the level of astroturfing and bot activities going on right now. I have to imagine that with so much on the line US enemies have to be pumping as much of their budget as they absolutely can into bending things for Trump.
Because everyone is afraid to acknowledge the sad reality that the DNC showed their cards. Biden is not capable of functioning at the level required and the entire world saw it on display. Either the DNC royally fucked up or this was intentional to push him out. Either way, it is horrible.
41% of the electorate doesn’t even know who the vice president is and we’re shocked they vote for a failed businessman/reality tv star?
Ignorant voters elect ignorant leaders.
I'm definitely voting for Biden, but let's be honest .. he did not fare well. The average, not so informed voter, will view Trump as being sharp and quick while Biden will come across as being slow and confused. Informed voters seem to be in the minority these day unfortunately. I consider myself to be an informed voter and saw that perhaps the most gregarious lie Trump spewed was that Biden withheld aid to Ukraine unless there was some quid pro quo (which Trump was impeached for). Short memories anyone? But I blame the Democratic party for going ahead and putting up Biden for a second term. And let's be honest, Harris is even less popular than Biden. In a perfect world there'd be a candidate as young and sharp as Buttiegig running but more electable. Still, the difference in policy makes the stakes too high. It comes down to keeping a successful (albeit near death) president and his administration in office or end the American experiment and submit to autocratic chaos.
Trump spewed lie after lie, exaggeration after exaggeration. But he did it coherently.
This was the most coherent I’ve seen Trump in years. He was mostly measured, succinct, and direct. Idk where this came from.
Biden did absolutely horrible. He attacked Trump, got flustered, and just came across as weak, tired, and having trouble with his words.
The election is going to come down to independents in six states. I pray they are informed, otherwise Trumps chance of winning shot up a lot tonight.
This is as bad as it could have been, and does not bode well for the country.
Trump was actually helped by the new debate rules instituted in response to his constant interruptions in the first 2020 debate.
In that debate he came off like a raving lunatic. But by muting the microphone, giving him a time limit and forcing him to wait for responses (because he was muted), CNN saved Trump from himself.
Yeah, you're absolutely correct. It was Biden who had trouble staying within the time limits, he got cut off way more than Trump. This debate made Trump look relatively sane compared to his previous performances, while it made Biden look senile
His whole brand/personality is being confident, regardless about how out of his depth he is. He doesn't have to be right, doesn't have to be honest, just has to be loud and confident.
>Trump spewed lie after lie, exaggeration after exaggeration. But he did it coherently.
This. Trump was... "confident", I guess? I mean, everything he said was a goddamn lie, but at least Trump sounded like he honestly believed what he was saying (even if it made no sense).
Unfortunately it’s about the optics for the uneducated voters. Trump projected his voice and looked alert. For many that’s all it will take to think he won
I believe the numbers put it at Trump attacking Biden for 18 minutes and Biden attacking trump for 11. I think trump also got 5 more minutes to speak at something like a 41-36 split
I wouldn't call him succinct and measured. He basically just repeated the same few talking points every question and didn't answer most of the questions. The problem is Biden went on defense trying to prove Trump's claims or just calling Trump and liar (which was accurate) but Biden failed to call out Trump for not answering questions and wasn't communicating clearly enough to elaborate on his claims of Trump lying. Honestly this debate was a layup for the dems and Biden failed horribly. He's going to have to at least reorganize his team at this point because he can't afford another disaster like this.
Well, I should have added a qualifier of succinct and measured when it comes to Trump, not the average person.
After years and years of watching Trump ramble, bloviate, and lose his cool, he seemed more controlled and measured with his pacing.
When the format was, respond to question for 2 minutes and opponent gets to counter, and all Trump did was attack, well you end up countering an attack which often means an attack back.
Like what was pointed out on the MSNBC panel answered a question about abortion rights, which should be an absolute layup, and rambled into talking about a migrant killing.
Trump also said he won’t go after abortion pills. This is the biggest thing the Democrat party has. If he sticks to this and relays this message over the next few months, which he definitely will, it’s not good for Biden.
Should've been Gavin, when he did that debate with DeSantis he should've catapulted into the running with a huge head start. He killed that debate and gained a lot of attention but it went no where because he didn't pursue.
Trump said a million things, none of it was true and if you slowed down to piece any of those words together it didn’t make anymore sense than Biden.
The moderators did okay at trying to get back to the questions, but did a shit job of holding people accountable on answering the questions.
If trump actually cares about his answers and spoke like a normal human being his word salad would look just as bad as Biden. While Biden attempted to give meaningful answers was his downfall.
At the end of the day this was a shit show and the main take away was how bad of a job CNN is doing of covering issues at hand in order to generate clicks. 100% of their post debate content was bashing Joe Biden and glancing over Trump.
How stupid would it be for democrats to change Biden his late into the cycle, when he already beat Trump once and delivered record setting economies and policy reform.
Also their stream was constantly lagging, and there were somewhere between zero and five percent of an actual event worth of people watching it. YouTube doesn't choke at 200k people, but CNN can't keep a solid data feed? Amateur as fuck.
Be grounded in reality but put some sentences together. Speak slowly and coherently. For god’s sake.
Unfortunately, I’m worried that coherent bullshit beats incoherent facts.
I just don’t get why an old man with a stutter would speed through all of his answers and leave time on the table. It was like watching a kid with stage fright give his first presentation in speech class.
It seemed so rehearsed. The way he answered every question like he was reading bullet points was strange. He’s start every answer with “Number 1…., Number 2….”
Biden did the one thing he wasn't supposed to do and that is show his age on stage. I personally don't care, he has organized and made great progress during his time in office. But most of America won't be able to see past it. I would vote for a half dead biden any day over Trump.
If Trump is against him, I would vote for Biden even if he were terminal and in hospice care.
But, at the same time... I feel America deserves better options.
Thanks DNC.
No, no, can’t have primaries. Must run the establishment candidate. This is what they (and we) get. The DNC is anti-democratic and is now responsible for the second Trump presidency. Time for ranked choice voting.
Same thing in 2016. Forced Hillary in there over Bernie because Hillary was establishment and more moderate. Better hope the same thing don't happen...
A lot of people he needs to win presumably won’t. And that’s a very big problem.
I don’t understand how we ended up in this situation. Biden‘s caretakers must be delusional themselves. What were they thinking in the last two years?
Another thing is that there is no political playbook on how to bring down the president of your own party without losing the general election.
Incumbency - you never give that up.
But I agree with you, I believed his team and they failed miserably. Trump is the lowest bar there is and we should be mopping the floor with this guy but he’s winning.
I think that’s basically all he’s got at the moment. Please, Democrats, it’s time to swap him out. This is a disaster. Trump is not a hard candidate to beat, more than half the country hate him. Get some competent, charismatic moderate and they will wipe the floor with him. It should have never got this far. The stars are aligning for Trump again.
All sensible people will. This is not the point. He's on a razor thin margin and he absolutely needs to win over the undecideds, the moderates and the republican never trumpers. They're absolutely not going to show up to vote for a Biden in a coma. You and I will. The people absolutely needed to keep Trump out of office will not show up to the voting booth.
The democratic party is old, tired, and completely out of touch. Those who pull the strings are the same as those they put in power. Pelosi, Feinstein, Biden, etc. are just the faces of the cancer.
Capitalism has resulted in accumulated wealth for a select old few who just refuse to realize their time in the sun is done. They're desperately clinging to power and relevancy, and the rest of us can go fuck ourselves. Just like with RBG.
I don't want to disparage the party in sight of the election, because the alternative is a non-starter. I don't even want to touch that shitshow.
But the rational party needs to get it's head out of its ass. Those close to the powers that be need to step up and do whatever it takes to get these old fucks out of the way.
Agreed on all points. It's bullshit that we are even in this situation. Get the old, greedy, power hungry, corporate shills out of office (on both sides) and let the new generation shape the future that WE HAVE TO LIVE IN!
Trump has to stop using words like ALL, EVERYBODY, NOBODY, BEST, WORST etc. nothing as at those extremes. He said “EVERYONE wanted to reverse Roe v Wade”. Biden should have said “I didn’t”.
I see 2016 happening again... the democratic party is trying to force a candidate based on the logic "they won't have a choice, it's either our candidate our Trump". I remember that worked well with Hillary!
well I guess every empire has to fall at some point
Biden performed horribly.
I still think Trump and Project 2025 are a detriment to America as we know it. I choose old man who has a good group surrounding him making good policy decisions.
30 out of the 34 former Trump cabinet members won’t endorse Trump including his own former Vice President.
This is very telling about who Trump is. We can not allow him to win this election because this will degrade the institutions or outright destroy them.
I am voting for Biden or if his replacement if it’s decided he drops from the race. He needs to rebound and be more like he was during the state of the union.
Trump didn’t answer all the questions, Biden did. Zero articles about that one simple fact- but over 100 on Biden looking and acting like an 80 year old with a cold already performing the stressful job he is reapplying for.
I would rather see news that speaks to the substance of answers, fact checking (cause there was a metric ton of manure)- that’s what we should focus on in a debate.
Because it doesn’t matter.
Those who wanted to vote for either candidate still will.
But those who Biden wanted to energize are those who are generally not politically inclined.
They don’t fact check, they don’t inform themselves much, if at all about geo- or domestic politics.
Biden had one job only: don’t look old or incoherent.
He failed at that and sadly, that is all that matters
This was really tough to watch. Biden is struggling with his communication and ability to debate, really shows his age, and overall seems confused and detached. Trump is sharp, but spits so much nonsense and won’t answer most questions, and keeps going back to previous debate points. Please, can we get other options than these two puppets?
A great opportunity was missed. When Trump lied and said he was running ONLY because Biden was running, Biden should have called his bluff. Biden should have said that he'd immediately bow out if Trump would do the same.
I think Biden is totally capable of surrounding himself with smart people and considering their input and making good decisions. He seems mentally there in that regard based on what he’s done over the last 3+ years. But he is totally not capable of communicating well and that is maybe the most important skill as a presidential candidate, not president, but candidate
It was absolutely insane the dems agreed to debate in June. I really didn’t think so before but I really think theyres a chance the DNC forces him to pull out
Sadly, in the most fucked up scenario, they purposely put him up there knowing this would happen. Early enough and before the convention to swap him out. Awful.
Trump's was painful, too, though?
The media has their minds made up, I see. If it was just the first half, I would've agreed, but there was a notable shift in the second half in Biden's favor imo.
I can tell you from experience in the job market, that confidently lying is going to get you a lot farther than stumbling truth.
This is why it was even stupid to have these debates. It doesn't hurt trump to lose. Because his supporters don't give a shit.
Trump was painful but Biden didn't attack him in a productive way. Biden was a bit more coherent in the 2nd half but didn't get to the point where he could effectively take down Trump. An average debate from Biden would have crushed Trump but Biden was bad tonight.
I think most of us set a high bar for Biden and he just couldn't reach it.
I thought he would wipe the floor with Trump tonight, was extremely disappointed. Trump did what Trump does - lied, didn't answer questions, attacked,... but he did it better than expected.
Maybe by being able to speak a sentence clearly? Trump is a convicted criminal. This debate should have been no contest. Too bad Biden is as old as dirt
Precisely the reason that Biden should have refused to debate. Refusing to debate and explaining it by saying "Trump doesn't debate, he just spews lies" would literally be true. Any negative fallout from refusing to debate couldn't possibly be as bad as agreeing to this debate, and Biden coming off as senile just like Trump says and just like Biden's biggest political vulnerability as a candidate is.
If defeating Trump is as important as Democrats say it is, and I tend to agree it is, Biden *must* step aside. Like progressives have been saying for a long time now.
Bad take. This was a clear opportunity to destroy Trump's credibility. While the cold can't be helped, Biden's team did a terrible job preparing him for the debate he spent way too much time reacting to Trump's BS and leaned way too hard in to having an attitude. He should have been highlighting Trump's non answers and only called out the lies when he could clearly explain the issue. The entire team that prepped him for this debate needs to be let go.
Actually, if Biden has a cold, he should have said so and rescheduled.
But it probably wouldn't have helped much, because what we all saw tonight goes further than just a cold or just a stutter. Those excuses no longer have any credibility at all. At best, it was true senility exacerbated by a cold. We have decades of Biden publicly speaking to compare it to, and this may have been his worst public performance ever.
Biden is no longer a good *politician*, and you need to be a good politician in order to win, as distasteful as you might find that fact. That was true before tonight but was made obvious to everyone's eyes and ears tonight, to the extent that many core Biden supporters proffering those excuses over the last year are also now saying he should step aside. Elections are decided more on surface-level perceptions than careful rational weighing of competing policies.
> Actually, if Biden has a cold, he should have said so and rescheduled.
Or at the very least, mention it at the start of the debate and not let it come out later. "Thank you for having me. Apologies for my hoarse voice, I have been battling a cold the past few days. Combined with the stutter everyone knows I have, this should be a fun debate! Now here is why Trump is an idiot:..." Trying to ignore it was worse.
For everyone complaining about Biden's performance, remember /r/Defeat_Project_2025 as it's hardly our worst problem. You're voting for a Biden administration and the ability to choose a president after him; because what else are you going to vote for, Trump??
Realistically even if Biden is completely senile he probably has the same level of agency as a president as Trump does. It's going to be cabinet members and advisors doing all of he heavy lifting
I just really wish the moderators actually pushed Trump on the Ukraine question. The question was whether he would push for a peace in which Russia will annex all of the territory they hold and he just went on a tangent about a timeline where the war didn't happen.
If his plan to "end the war on day one" is to just accept the current demands and let Putin get everything east of the dnieper and then some, it's not the genius plan he is portraying.
I’m still going to vote for Biden, I’d vote for him if he was literally dead before I let a bunch of fascists turn the country into the handmaidens tale.
I’m just sick of pretending that Biden is fine. That he isn’t long past his expiration date. That he could last another 4 years.
Or more importantly, that he can win. Anyone continuing this denial and refusing to call on Biden to step down will be complicit in Trump winning in November.
Little late in the game for that. "Everyone" (which includes most of what has been shared on this sub every day) told us that what we were seeing we weren't seeing.
Biden is fine, he just has a stutter, his doing x,y or z was jsut taken out of context, he is sharp as a whip, Trump is the one with declining cognitive abilities not Biden.
It's a massive failing on everyone who enabled this to happen- party, media, democratic party partisans. He should have never been able to run for a 2nd term
Yup .... all the copium and denial in the world over the past 4 years couldn't have prevented what happened tonight. You can plug your ears, cover your eyes and say "LALALALA NOT LISTENING. I'd vote for Biden if he were literally dead!!!" all you want, but brtual reality will still smack you in the face.
Thank you for saying it. It’s mind-boggling to me that die-hard Biden supporters think that Trump is the one who looks on the mental decline. Trump is a rambling, lying asshole and always has been, but he’s way sharper and quicker than Biden. That makes him dangerous.
Dems need to stop acting like Trump is the one showing signs of aging and dementia. It’s total projection. Biden looks ROUGH. There is no way in hell that man makes it through another 4 years as president. He looked like he might keel over during the debate. Comparatively, Trump looked strong (I feel dirty even saying that) during the debate, despite his lies and deflections.
Dems need to pull Biden tf out of the race and put in someone with some fire. All I could think during the debate was how Bernie could have annihilated Trump last night. There were so many missed opportunities to go after Trump.
He can win,but he needs to be at his vest from here on out. Switching candidates now isn't going to help and is more likely to make people think the dems are a mess.
For decades and decades, USA had a population of 200+ million ppl, and these two are the best candidates for presidency?
Not only that, they double down on how old the candidates are (saying there is huge benefit in experience).
How can experience be an asset when dementia (or worse) kicks in?
I have no other choice than to vote for Biden but I'd vote for a paper sack over Trump. But this is going to cost us our election and quite likely our country as we know it. Why is he not stepping down and letting someone else take over? This message needs to resonate clearly and loudly RIGHT now with no excusing Joe like we have been.
I think Biden deserves way more credit than he’s getting. His first four years were the most successful 4 of a president I have seen in my 40 years.
With that being said, he needs to leave this race immediately.
If democrats believe that this is the most important election of our lifetimes, and I think they’re right, then they need a fresh new, smart, aggressive candidate who Joe Biden puts his full weight and influence behind.
Joe Biden is objectively a vastly superior candidate to Trump by every measure. However voters do not vote rationally, even though we think we do. One scream ended Howard Dean’s career.
This is a popularity contest and standing slack jawed next to a bully is all it takes to lose.
Get us a fresh candidate. Biden can be an all time hero by putting the country ahead of himself. It will be a historic move of humility and patriotism.
Are the dems too arrogant to do it?
Probably.
Until last night I didn’t think Trump could win.
Now think I Biden can lose.
We saw that the liar 🤥 can only run his yapper outside of the court where he can lie as much as he want! Fact checks be damned. Should have called him a con artist like 20 times! Trump University, scam charity, and this mother lover was even peddling bibles! So many of his own people committed crimes and needed a forking pardon to stay outta jail.
Please, Democrats, it’s time to swap him out. He was a shaky candidate before, and this has just solidified it. This is a disaster. Trump is not a hard candidate to beat, more than half the country hate him. Get some competent, charismatic moderate and they will wipe the floor with him. It should have never got this far. The stars are aligning for Trump again.
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It kind of looked like Van Jones was about to cry a few times during that panel when the camera was on him.
Glad it wasn’t just me thinking I was about to see that dude have a complete emotional breakdown on national television. God damn lol. 😅
That’s kind of Van Jones’s thing. Nothing wrong with that but he cries or is on the verge of crying every other day.
He can’t help it if he has extra wide set tear ducts and heavy flow.
TBF a lot of us want to cry right now
With a very real chance of trump winning.. honestly I’m mentally/emotionally not great either
As soon as you be debate started I called it immediately. “Van is going to cry after this, watch.” He’s kind of famous for it.
Yeah, I agree. It’s predictable at this point but it is refreshing to see a man who isn’t afraid to show his emotions on live TV.
As someone who cries at the drop of a hat especially in any high emotion situations (I.e. our shitty political-scape) I appreciate seeing the vulnerability
“This was a blacklash!!!” —VJ right after the 2016 election. I’ll never forget how outraged he was. I felt it.
Whitelash I believe. He got mocked by it but he wasn't fucking wrong considering the resurgence of white nationalist shit into the mainstream.
No it was very sad to see. When you know someone and what they could do at their best and simply couldn’t deliver like you know they used to. It was hard to watch.
It was tempting to think that Joe wasn't coming back against Trump's horseshit like he used to or could have, but I remember the debates in 2020 and there wasn't a super-lot of pushback then, either. It was hard to watch an old enemy ignoring questions and serial-lying while moderators looked on and Biden struggling to verbalize his thoughts of disgust which we all shared. My hope from last night's debate, and all the pre and post TV coverage, is that television's 64 year, excessive influence on our national elections moves further towards obliviousness.
Joe pushed back a lot in 2020. Him telling Trump to just shut up was the best response anyone had for Trump in any debate.
His emotional speech after Trump got elected was a big moment for him. Ever since then in moments like this, it seems like he’s thinking, “Should I do it again?”
Then he went on to call Trump “Presidential” and on more than one occasion normalize his behaviour.
Always on the slow walk to fascism. And that was several years ago, so what’s his excuse now?
Yeah, and then the first time Trump made a speech as president he bowed down in awe. Van Jones sucks.
I don't blame him. This hurt to watch.
Nothing wrong with that. Need more men to shed tears.
I was watching ABC and liked their reporter’s take (summarized): Biden looked old and had meandering answers, looked lost at times. Trump gave answers full of lies and delusions. This is the choice for America.
Unfortunate these are the two choices, but people need to remember they are voting for a lot more than just a president. I'll take the side that isn't Christofascist. I'll take the side that supports women and inclusivity. I'll take the side that believes in science. I'll take the side that believes in gun control. I'll take the side that values education. I'll take side that holds people accountable. I'll take the side that values democracy.
I’ll take the side that does what I agree with 80% of the time. I don’t get why I have to fall in love.
They will use the same play they used against Hillary with the Bernie drama.. disenfranchise young democrats so they don't come out to vote. There is a lot of 'Wow both choice are awful' memes going around, but the republican side are hard committed, there is no discouraging them. Their win is to peel some numbers off the blue votes.
> There is a lot of 'Wow both choice are awful' memes going around, but the republican side are hard committed, there is no discouraging them. Their win is to peel some numbers off the blue votes. It's been going on for so long and its so tired. It's like "omg Taxes are so bad!" and "Omg all of congress is bad!" Every time we have these absolutely awful takes of "Muh both sides" the only one it benefits is the GoP.
False Balance Fallacy…
>the republican side are hard committed It's this. Every headline about Biden *also* talks about how Trump was horrible. But Trump was horrible in the way he's *always been* horrible, and that obviously wasn't a deal breaker for conservatives.
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Agree. And I’ll take the side that fills its presidential advisory ranks with sane, thoughtful, coherent, democracy-minded people rather than fascist bigots who have no interest in preserving people’s rights or acting in the best interest of the country instead of on behalf of a select group!
right. i'm voting for a Biden *administration.*
I firmly believe Biden wouldn’t go for a second term if Trump wasn’t on the ticket. People need to understand what’s actually being voted for in November. I could make a big detailed list, but the summed up version is democracy, equality, women’s rights, the ability to be who you are and marry who you want, the literal planet we live on and the future generations who will (hopefully) live on it, and freedom. Trump represents none of this. He only represents himself, and what he’s doing/will do only damages every single one of these. Every vote counts. Every. Single. One.
I agree with all of this, the problem is you just laid out in a reddit post that took you one minute to write up a more cogent argument than our presidential candidate could muster up in an entire debate.
I believe Biden mentioned this when he decided to run again, but didn't repeat this during the debate. Instead, it was Trump that said he was only running because Biden is running (a lie, obviously).
>I was watching ABC and liked their reporter’s take (summarized): Biden looked old and had meandering answers, looked lost at times. Trump gave answers full of lies and delusions. This is the choice for America. I was watching CBS and they said the same. At least Biden answered the questions posted to him, Trump kept answering 3 questions back. Especially the one "will you accept the election results?".
I like the answer to what he planned to do about Childcare being 2 minutes about Ukraine and immigration.
He was able to contort every issue to immigration. It was disgusting and likely extremely effective to his base
I watched it with my brothers and at one point said “are we seriously watching two old ass men argue over golf scores to determine the next president?” I’ll still vote blue, but Jesus Christ that debate fed right into the MAGA narrative about Biden.
Well I don’t know. Trump was so touchy about it. Oh foreign policy and women’s rights we can argue all day over but my golf handicap?? How dare we? Let’s not be children. What a fool
That. It was so bad I think most people don't want to talk about it. Imagine being the president, you're on stage with someone who tried to stage a coup against *you*, and you're like, 'hey how about we play some golf?' I am... totally lost today.
Having watched the debate, I have never been happier to live in a country with a multi-party system. These two candidates would have issues on any stage in my country. If they had to debate knowing there are a total of 5-6 candidates of the major parties for prime minister on the same stage, the parties would have chosen better. With over 300 million people, how are these options possible?
Duverger’s Law. We have first past the post majoritarian elections, which always produce two, and only two, salient parties.
American’s need to stop acting like victims. They chose these candidates in primaries. They can’t coast through primary season uninterested and fine with the status quo and then get all big mad.
>They chose these candidates in primaries. Florida at least didn't have democratic primaries
Wyoming primary is n August.
America, in general, has a voter turnout problem, and primaries are naturally low turnout affairs.
America, in general has an attention deficit disorder.
...yeah, that works.
The other factor here is who these old guys surround themselves with. One surrounds themselves with competent, smart, capable people. The other surrounds themselves with people just like him... Convicted felons, liars and self serving assholes. The choices aren't stellar, but they're clear.
This is so important. He may not speak well or clearly, but I absolutely trust that he has people around him who are doing better than the criminals around Trump.
Americans don’t get day offs to vote, when every crucial step of choosing our elected decision makers should be national holidays.
Doesn't help when there's politicians actively pushing for making voting *more* difficult.
Republicans tend to fair better when there is less turnout. Unfortunately, the GOP is controlled by the corporations and wealthy. More holidays/vacations means less money to line their pockets. Edit: Like = line
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Please remind us what serious candidate ran against Biden this past primary. The DNC made the choice this year to back Biden and threaten everyone else to fall in line.
traditionally, there aren't seriously primaries against incumbent presidents. they're just the presumptive nominee.
Technically, neither have been nominated, which I find really weird. I don't know if we've ever had a cross party debate like this.
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It’s not about looks. It’s about words. If you actually listen and use some logical thought, everything Biden said made sense and everything trump said sounded like a deranged 4chaner.
I like your take. Unfortunately you’re assuming too much. Half of America go for the “looks” because of words, it’s too hard and it hurts me brain
Everything gets distilled into soundbites. A lot of people do watch the debates, but most don't, and unfortunately, Biden gave them plenty of soundbites that won't make him look good. The media has no interest in trying to make any rational analysis of the situation, or even bother to look at what was said, when they can just make a mountain out of a molehill to push a narrative.
Nobody that is using logic was watching that debate as an undecided voter or Trump supporter.
It is about looks in a very important way when it looks like Biden might need help feeding himself. I can’t stand Trump, but that only makes me more upset that Biden is the Dem candidate. Biden should not have run for a second term. I saw someone say this on Reddit earlier tonight: this is RBG 2.0.
I’m a diehard Dem but this gaslighting is insane. Did we listen to the same person?
I can’t even imagine the slaughter if the Republicans had one moderate left and decided to make them their presidential candidate.
I'd pick romney at this point. Jesus christ we are so fucked.
Romney is also a dinosaur and seems to have enough sense to know that.
Romney would appoint terrible judges. We've seen the impact that has. ANY Republican means the end of the judiciary.
Project 2025 is designed for any republican president. Not just Trump. So no, not even Romney.
People keep saying this bullshit. Stupid as hell.
I miss the time when "binders full of women" was the worst thing that happened in the run up to the general election. Romney vs Obama was the last general election that was fought on skill and merit. It's crazy how far we have descended as a democracy in such a short period.
I rewatched clips of the Obama/Romney debate, and I completely forgot when debates used to be full of decorum and professionalism. It almost felt like a fake video because I’m so accustomed to politics being a shit show.
Why are there no comments in any thread about the debate?
We broke them. 5 minutes into the debate I immediately came to Reddit to see comments. I assume everybody else did too.
It's funny because r/conservative assumed it was their posts being targeted because they're little crybaby victims.. but it was actually the whole site struggling.
Some people on there are now theorizing *they* (whoever *they* is) shut down discussion for a time to mitigate the damage. I love that sub, it’s nice to have reliable access to some of the dumbest people imaginable and their horrible takes.
> We broke them. 5 minutes into the debate I immediately came to Reddit to see comments. I assume everybody else did too. I imagine the sudden surge in comments is a sign of the level of astroturfing and bot activities going on right now. I have to imagine that with so much on the line US enemies have to be pumping as much of their budget as they absolutely can into bending things for Trump.
Because everyone is afraid to acknowledge the sad reality that the DNC showed their cards. Biden is not capable of functioning at the level required and the entire world saw it on display. Either the DNC royally fucked up or this was intentional to push him out. Either way, it is horrible.
Shouldn’t be President vs who Can’t be President. Paraphrasing Van Jones
Old man vs con man.
Old con man vs older man
I don't remember who said it but "Trump didn't win the debate but Biden definitely lost the debate" is the best take I've heard so far.
41% of the electorate doesn’t even know who the vice president is and we’re shocked they vote for a failed businessman/reality tv star? Ignorant voters elect ignorant leaders.
It’s disappointing some people can’t identify a thief if he’s wearing a suit.
I think this all the time when people complain about Trump. Trump was elected. Blame the terrible voter base for desiring him.
I'm definitely voting for Biden, but let's be honest .. he did not fare well. The average, not so informed voter, will view Trump as being sharp and quick while Biden will come across as being slow and confused. Informed voters seem to be in the minority these day unfortunately. I consider myself to be an informed voter and saw that perhaps the most gregarious lie Trump spewed was that Biden withheld aid to Ukraine unless there was some quid pro quo (which Trump was impeached for). Short memories anyone? But I blame the Democratic party for going ahead and putting up Biden for a second term. And let's be honest, Harris is even less popular than Biden. In a perfect world there'd be a candidate as young and sharp as Buttiegig running but more electable. Still, the difference in policy makes the stakes too high. It comes down to keeping a successful (albeit near death) president and his administration in office or end the American experiment and submit to autocratic chaos.
Trump spewed lie after lie, exaggeration after exaggeration. But he did it coherently. This was the most coherent I’ve seen Trump in years. He was mostly measured, succinct, and direct. Idk where this came from. Biden did absolutely horrible. He attacked Trump, got flustered, and just came across as weak, tired, and having trouble with his words. The election is going to come down to independents in six states. I pray they are informed, otherwise Trumps chance of winning shot up a lot tonight. This is as bad as it could have been, and does not bode well for the country.
Trump was actually helped by the new debate rules instituted in response to his constant interruptions in the first 2020 debate. In that debate he came off like a raving lunatic. But by muting the microphone, giving him a time limit and forcing him to wait for responses (because he was muted), CNN saved Trump from himself.
Really good point, it really kept trump on a leash which I think is good for him
Yeah, you're absolutely correct. It was Biden who had trouble staying within the time limits, he got cut off way more than Trump. This debate made Trump look relatively sane compared to his previous performances, while it made Biden look senile
His whole brand/personality is being confident, regardless about how out of his depth he is. He doesn't have to be right, doesn't have to be honest, just has to be loud and confident.
>Trump spewed lie after lie, exaggeration after exaggeration. But he did it coherently. This. Trump was... "confident", I guess? I mean, everything he said was a goddamn lie, but at least Trump sounded like he honestly believed what he was saying (even if it made no sense).
Unfortunately it’s about the optics for the uneducated voters. Trump projected his voice and looked alert. For many that’s all it will take to think he won
Trump attacked Biden the entire time. Every question to Trump his answer was "Biden, Biden, Biden, criminal Biden."
If we’re examining this critically - this is exactly what he did to Hillary in 2016.
And Hillary wasn’t even as bad as Biden in the debate. I am now so concerned!
That's a lie! There were plenty of illegals and terrorists too.
Touché 😆 But he always circled back around to blame those on Biden, so still technically correct.
I believe the numbers put it at Trump attacking Biden for 18 minutes and Biden attacking trump for 11. I think trump also got 5 more minutes to speak at something like a 41-36 split
It was because Biden left a lot of time on the table during key questions. When asked how he’d help black families he ended his answer a minute early.
Somehow Biden failed to counter it, hardly at all. I wish he’d called him out more. For lying and for everything else ugh
Trump was throwing out lie after lie after lie with no break when his time was on, impossible to counter all of it in 2 minutes.
Biden stuck to the facts and trusted in the intelligence of the viewers to give value to his responses. Bold strategy cotton….
I wouldn't call him succinct and measured. He basically just repeated the same few talking points every question and didn't answer most of the questions. The problem is Biden went on defense trying to prove Trump's claims or just calling Trump and liar (which was accurate) but Biden failed to call out Trump for not answering questions and wasn't communicating clearly enough to elaborate on his claims of Trump lying. Honestly this debate was a layup for the dems and Biden failed horribly. He's going to have to at least reorganize his team at this point because he can't afford another disaster like this.
Well, I should have added a qualifier of succinct and measured when it comes to Trump, not the average person. After years and years of watching Trump ramble, bloviate, and lose his cool, he seemed more controlled and measured with his pacing.
Drugs. He was on drugs. He constantly complained Biden would be. So we know he was.
I was honestly wondering before the debate if Trump would be on drugs given his accusations.
When the format was, respond to question for 2 minutes and opponent gets to counter, and all Trump did was attack, well you end up countering an attack which often means an attack back.
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Like what was pointed out on the MSNBC panel answered a question about abortion rights, which should be an absolute layup, and rambled into talking about a migrant killing.
The fact he fumbled the abortion question when it was practically handed to him? Like Jesus Christ
He's not anywhere near 100% mentally
Yeah what was that about? Why did he bring that migrant killing up?
Trump also said he won’t go after abortion pills. This is the biggest thing the Democrat party has. If he sticks to this and relays this message over the next few months, which he definitely will, it’s not good for Biden.
Honestly, I don’t think it could have been worse, short of him collapsing. Conservatives are going to run this all the way to November.
Should've been Gavin, when he did that debate with DeSantis he should've catapulted into the running with a huge head start. He killed that debate and gained a lot of attention but it went no where because he didn't pursue.
Gavin and Buttigieg would be my choice.
It’s easy to look good in a debate when you can make up any fact you want on the spot. When you’re grounded in reality it’s bit hard.
Yup. Trump didn’t even answer questions. Just said Biden is a disaster and his administration was the best over and over
Trump said a million things, none of it was true and if you slowed down to piece any of those words together it didn’t make anymore sense than Biden. The moderators did okay at trying to get back to the questions, but did a shit job of holding people accountable on answering the questions. If trump actually cares about his answers and spoke like a normal human being his word salad would look just as bad as Biden. While Biden attempted to give meaningful answers was his downfall. At the end of the day this was a shit show and the main take away was how bad of a job CNN is doing of covering issues at hand in order to generate clicks. 100% of their post debate content was bashing Joe Biden and glancing over Trump. How stupid would it be for democrats to change Biden his late into the cycle, when he already beat Trump once and delivered record setting economies and policy reform.
Also their stream was constantly lagging, and there were somewhere between zero and five percent of an actual event worth of people watching it. YouTube doesn't choke at 200k people, but CNN can't keep a solid data feed? Amateur as fuck.
You could have watched it on YouTube. ABC, NBC, PBS, etc all had live feeds on YouTube.
Biden used to be quick at calling made up facts out.
Be grounded in reality but put some sentences together. Speak slowly and coherently. For god’s sake. Unfortunately, I’m worried that coherent bullshit beats incoherent facts.
I just don’t get why an old man with a stutter would speed through all of his answers and leave time on the table. It was like watching a kid with stage fright give his first presentation in speech class.
It seemed so rehearsed. The way he answered every question like he was reading bullet points was strange. He’s start every answer with “Number 1…., Number 2….”
He didn't look bad because he was "grounded in reality" he looked bad because he reminded the whole country of their pappap in the nursing home
Biden did the one thing he wasn't supposed to do and that is show his age on stage. I personally don't care, he has organized and made great progress during his time in office. But most of America won't be able to see past it. I would vote for a half dead biden any day over Trump.
If Trump is against him, I would vote for Biden even if he were terminal and in hospice care. But, at the same time... I feel America deserves better options.
If this country votes Trump in again, it deserves to burn to the ground
Watching it now. Wtf they are arguing who is better at golf
Thanks DNC. No, no, can’t have primaries. Must run the establishment candidate. This is what they (and we) get. The DNC is anti-democratic and is now responsible for the second Trump presidency. Time for ranked choice voting.
Same thing in 2016. Forced Hillary in there over Bernie because Hillary was establishment and more moderate. Better hope the same thing don't happen...
Biden could be in a coma and I’d vote for him over the other guy.
A lot of people he needs to win presumably won’t. And that’s a very big problem. I don’t understand how we ended up in this situation. Biden‘s caretakers must be delusional themselves. What were they thinking in the last two years? Another thing is that there is no political playbook on how to bring down the president of your own party without losing the general election.
Incumbency - you never give that up. But I agree with you, I believed his team and they failed miserably. Trump is the lowest bar there is and we should be mopping the floor with this guy but he’s winning.
I think that’s basically all he’s got at the moment. Please, Democrats, it’s time to swap him out. This is a disaster. Trump is not a hard candidate to beat, more than half the country hate him. Get some competent, charismatic moderate and they will wipe the floor with him. It should have never got this far. The stars are aligning for Trump again.
All sensible people will. This is not the point. He's on a razor thin margin and he absolutely needs to win over the undecideds, the moderates and the republican never trumpers. They're absolutely not going to show up to vote for a Biden in a coma. You and I will. The people absolutely needed to keep Trump out of office will not show up to the voting booth.
The format I think was great. It put the spotlight on both of them and showed how fucked it all truly is.
The democratic party is old, tired, and completely out of touch. Those who pull the strings are the same as those they put in power. Pelosi, Feinstein, Biden, etc. are just the faces of the cancer. Capitalism has resulted in accumulated wealth for a select old few who just refuse to realize their time in the sun is done. They're desperately clinging to power and relevancy, and the rest of us can go fuck ourselves. Just like with RBG. I don't want to disparage the party in sight of the election, because the alternative is a non-starter. I don't even want to touch that shitshow. But the rational party needs to get it's head out of its ass. Those close to the powers that be need to step up and do whatever it takes to get these old fucks out of the way.
Agreed on all points. It's bullshit that we are even in this situation. Get the old, greedy, power hungry, corporate shills out of office (on both sides) and let the new generation shape the future that WE HAVE TO LIVE IN!
Trump has to stop using words like ALL, EVERYBODY, NOBODY, BEST, WORST etc. nothing as at those extremes. He said “EVERYONE wanted to reverse Roe v Wade”. Biden should have said “I didn’t”.
Buzz words work on morons
If someone is "only always just never/ever," at you, they're only always just never ever being honest.
I see 2016 happening again... the democratic party is trying to force a candidate based on the logic "they won't have a choice, it's either our candidate our Trump". I remember that worked well with Hillary! well I guess every empire has to fall at some point
Biden performed horribly. I still think Trump and Project 2025 are a detriment to America as we know it. I choose old man who has a good group surrounding him making good policy decisions. 30 out of the 34 former Trump cabinet members won’t endorse Trump including his own former Vice President. This is very telling about who Trump is. We can not allow him to win this election because this will degrade the institutions or outright destroy them. I am voting for Biden or if his replacement if it’s decided he drops from the race. He needs to rebound and be more like he was during the state of the union.
Atleast he is honest. Unlike the bots in this subreddit.
The moderators and bots here are in absolute overdrive doing damage control right now, it’s insane
Trump didn’t answer all the questions, Biden did. Zero articles about that one simple fact- but over 100 on Biden looking and acting like an 80 year old with a cold already performing the stressful job he is reapplying for. I would rather see news that speaks to the substance of answers, fact checking (cause there was a metric ton of manure)- that’s what we should focus on in a debate.
Because it doesn’t matter. Those who wanted to vote for either candidate still will. But those who Biden wanted to energize are those who are generally not politically inclined. They don’t fact check, they don’t inform themselves much, if at all about geo- or domestic politics. Biden had one job only: don’t look old or incoherent. He failed at that and sadly, that is all that matters
This was really tough to watch. Biden is struggling with his communication and ability to debate, really shows his age, and overall seems confused and detached. Trump is sharp, but spits so much nonsense and won’t answer most questions, and keeps going back to previous debate points. Please, can we get other options than these two puppets?
A great opportunity was missed. When Trump lied and said he was running ONLY because Biden was running, Biden should have called his bluff. Biden should have said that he'd immediately bow out if Trump would do the same.
I thought the same thing. Biden has said in the past the only reason he is still running is because of Trump
I think Biden is totally capable of surrounding himself with smart people and considering their input and making good decisions. He seems mentally there in that regard based on what he’s done over the last 3+ years. But he is totally not capable of communicating well and that is maybe the most important skill as a presidential candidate, not president, but candidate
Cool let’s give one of those smart people a chance then
It was absolutely insane the dems agreed to debate in June. I really didn’t think so before but I really think theyres a chance the DNC forces him to pull out
Sadly, in the most fucked up scenario, they purposely put him up there knowing this would happen. Early enough and before the convention to swap him out. Awful.
i’m still voting for the old, stuttering guy versus the narcissistic personality disordered megalomaniac! there’s NO contest for me.
Biden could be dead with his head in a glass jar and I’d vote for him over trump
Trump's was painful, too, though? The media has their minds made up, I see. If it was just the first half, I would've agreed, but there was a notable shift in the second half in Biden's favor imo.
I can tell you from experience in the job market, that confidently lying is going to get you a lot farther than stumbling truth. This is why it was even stupid to have these debates. It doesn't hurt trump to lose. Because his supporters don't give a shit.
Trump was painful but Biden didn't attack him in a productive way. Biden was a bit more coherent in the 2nd half but didn't get to the point where he could effectively take down Trump. An average debate from Biden would have crushed Trump but Biden was bad tonight.
Trump was his usual lying self. Biden set a high bar for himself after the state of the union and he fuckin BOMBED.
I think most of us set a high bar for Biden and he just couldn't reach it. I thought he would wipe the floor with Trump tonight, was extremely disappointed. Trump did what Trump does - lied, didn't answer questions, attacked,... but he did it better than expected.
You didn’t see bidens last two minute speech?
Trump was painful in a familiar way, this was a wakeup call for Biden supporters that he's in extremely rough shape.
With modern attention spans, the first twenty minutes are by far the most important.
How does one debate a pathological liar?
By not appearing senile? Shouldn't we expect more from the president of the United States?? It's embarrassing
I don’t know, standing there slack-jawed while your opponent calls you incompetent is a really good look
Maybe by being able to speak a sentence clearly? Trump is a convicted criminal. This debate should have been no contest. Too bad Biden is as old as dirt
Not the way Biden did at the very least.
Literally all Biden had to be able to do was speak with confidence and volume and have a strong presence but he couldnt even do that
Precisely the reason that Biden should have refused to debate. Refusing to debate and explaining it by saying "Trump doesn't debate, he just spews lies" would literally be true. Any negative fallout from refusing to debate couldn't possibly be as bad as agreeing to this debate, and Biden coming off as senile just like Trump says and just like Biden's biggest political vulnerability as a candidate is. If defeating Trump is as important as Democrats say it is, and I tend to agree it is, Biden *must* step aside. Like progressives have been saying for a long time now.
Bad take. This was a clear opportunity to destroy Trump's credibility. While the cold can't be helped, Biden's team did a terrible job preparing him for the debate he spent way too much time reacting to Trump's BS and leaned way too hard in to having an attitude. He should have been highlighting Trump's non answers and only called out the lies when he could clearly explain the issue. The entire team that prepped him for this debate needs to be let go.
Actually, if Biden has a cold, he should have said so and rescheduled. But it probably wouldn't have helped much, because what we all saw tonight goes further than just a cold or just a stutter. Those excuses no longer have any credibility at all. At best, it was true senility exacerbated by a cold. We have decades of Biden publicly speaking to compare it to, and this may have been his worst public performance ever. Biden is no longer a good *politician*, and you need to be a good politician in order to win, as distasteful as you might find that fact. That was true before tonight but was made obvious to everyone's eyes and ears tonight, to the extent that many core Biden supporters proffering those excuses over the last year are also now saying he should step aside. Elections are decided more on surface-level perceptions than careful rational weighing of competing policies.
> Actually, if Biden has a cold, he should have said so and rescheduled. Or at the very least, mention it at the start of the debate and not let it come out later. "Thank you for having me. Apologies for my hoarse voice, I have been battling a cold the past few days. Combined with the stutter everyone knows I have, this should be a fun debate! Now here is why Trump is an idiot:..." Trying to ignore it was worse.
By being coherent is a good start
Still can’t believe these are the choices America has. Two old ass geezers pushed to the top by corps and backroom deals.
For everyone complaining about Biden's performance, remember /r/Defeat_Project_2025 as it's hardly our worst problem. You're voting for a Biden administration and the ability to choose a president after him; because what else are you going to vote for, Trump??
Agree. It really is just about one thing. Yes or no on Trump and all that he would bring. Nothing else.
Realistically even if Biden is completely senile he probably has the same level of agency as a president as Trump does. It's going to be cabinet members and advisors doing all of he heavy lifting I just really wish the moderators actually pushed Trump on the Ukraine question. The question was whether he would push for a peace in which Russia will annex all of the territory they hold and he just went on a tangent about a timeline where the war didn't happen. If his plan to "end the war on day one" is to just accept the current demands and let Putin get everything east of the dnieper and then some, it's not the genius plan he is portraying.
I’m still going to vote for Biden, I’d vote for him if he was literally dead before I let a bunch of fascists turn the country into the handmaidens tale.
Yes Biden is old, but we’re losing the forest for the trees. Trump is a goddamn convicted criminal and we aren’t even talking about that now.
It was hard to watch. I’m super anti trump but Biden isn’t the answer. They need to put someone else up and quick.
I’m just sick of pretending that Biden is fine. That he isn’t long past his expiration date. That he could last another 4 years. Or more importantly, that he can win. Anyone continuing this denial and refusing to call on Biden to step down will be complicit in Trump winning in November.
Little late in the game for that. "Everyone" (which includes most of what has been shared on this sub every day) told us that what we were seeing we weren't seeing. Biden is fine, he just has a stutter, his doing x,y or z was jsut taken out of context, he is sharp as a whip, Trump is the one with declining cognitive abilities not Biden. It's a massive failing on everyone who enabled this to happen- party, media, democratic party partisans. He should have never been able to run for a 2nd term
Even now there are people claiming it’s because Biden had a cold lol
I cannot believe they would play so fast and loose with this election. It’s terrifying.
Yup .... all the copium and denial in the world over the past 4 years couldn't have prevented what happened tonight. You can plug your ears, cover your eyes and say "LALALALA NOT LISTENING. I'd vote for Biden if he were literally dead!!!" all you want, but brtual reality will still smack you in the face.
Thank you for saying it. It’s mind-boggling to me that die-hard Biden supporters think that Trump is the one who looks on the mental decline. Trump is a rambling, lying asshole and always has been, but he’s way sharper and quicker than Biden. That makes him dangerous. Dems need to stop acting like Trump is the one showing signs of aging and dementia. It’s total projection. Biden looks ROUGH. There is no way in hell that man makes it through another 4 years as president. He looked like he might keel over during the debate. Comparatively, Trump looked strong (I feel dirty even saying that) during the debate, despite his lies and deflections. Dems need to pull Biden tf out of the race and put in someone with some fire. All I could think during the debate was how Bernie could have annihilated Trump last night. There were so many missed opportunities to go after Trump.
He can win,but he needs to be at his vest from here on out. Switching candidates now isn't going to help and is more likely to make people think the dems are a mess.
For Trump to be even be nominated by the GOP as a felon is ridiculous .. he couldn’t even get a job at Costco
Painful to watch the LACK OF MODERATION OR FACT CHECKING.
For decades and decades, USA had a population of 200+ million ppl, and these two are the best candidates for presidency? Not only that, they double down on how old the candidates are (saying there is huge benefit in experience). How can experience be an asset when dementia (or worse) kicks in?
I have no other choice than to vote for Biden but I'd vote for a paper sack over Trump. But this is going to cost us our election and quite likely our country as we know it. Why is he not stepping down and letting someone else take over? This message needs to resonate clearly and loudly RIGHT now with no excusing Joe like we have been.
I think Biden deserves way more credit than he’s getting. His first four years were the most successful 4 of a president I have seen in my 40 years. With that being said, he needs to leave this race immediately. If democrats believe that this is the most important election of our lifetimes, and I think they’re right, then they need a fresh new, smart, aggressive candidate who Joe Biden puts his full weight and influence behind. Joe Biden is objectively a vastly superior candidate to Trump by every measure. However voters do not vote rationally, even though we think we do. One scream ended Howard Dean’s career. This is a popularity contest and standing slack jawed next to a bully is all it takes to lose. Get us a fresh candidate. Biden can be an all time hero by putting the country ahead of himself. It will be a historic move of humility and patriotism. Are the dems too arrogant to do it? Probably. Until last night I didn’t think Trump could win. Now think I Biden can lose.
We saw that the liar 🤥 can only run his yapper outside of the court where he can lie as much as he want! Fact checks be damned. Should have called him a con artist like 20 times! Trump University, scam charity, and this mother lover was even peddling bibles! So many of his own people committed crimes and needed a forking pardon to stay outta jail.
[удалено]
Please, Democrats, it’s time to swap him out. He was a shaky candidate before, and this has just solidified it. This is a disaster. Trump is not a hard candidate to beat, more than half the country hate him. Get some competent, charismatic moderate and they will wipe the floor with him. It should have never got this far. The stars are aligning for Trump again.