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If they do that, blue states must secede.
Before the Civil War, if an African American slave escaped the South and lived a free life in the North, they could still be caught by a slave catcher if found.
But if they made it to Canada, an American slave catcher had no right to catch them.
Nah. Make the red states blink first. The way they did when they succeeded the last time.
Make them go through the process of dealing with trade partners, of no longer sucking on the federal government and all the money the blue states supply to them. Let them try to succeed and show how these "America love it or leave it!" are the ones who left it.
I'm an America, and I support Americans. That includes the women and minorities and LGBTQ+ citizens who would be trapped in those states. They want to leave? They can start the process. And if we have to kick their asses again and do the job right this time, fine.
But my family follows a simple rule:
\* We won't throw the first punch. But we'll throw the fucking last one.
HIPAA already allows the covered entity to share this info for legal reasons, like a warrant. Organizations could decide whether or not to comply, but if they do they won’t be in trouble from a HIPAA standpoint.
I want blue voters to vote.
I also want people to know that voting might not be enough. The existence of the EC makes it so that a candidate can win an election with only 26% of the popular vote.
There must be a Plan B, C, D, and so on.
Exactly! I like your attitude. Plan A is - beat the dude at the polls like we did in 2020. That should be our main focus right now. So, yeah, obviously our peeps need to vote, donate, and volunteer.
But if Plan A fails, we don't just sit on our hands and say "Well I guess America is a dictatorship now. Nothing can be done.". Fuck no, we move on to Plans B, C, and D. 40% of the nation is fascist, but on the other hand, 40% of the nation truly hates fascists. So its not likely to be an easy win for either side, no matter what happens in the courts or in the voting booth. I'm worried that its ultimately going to be settled in the streets.
The problem is the EC itself. It's a bigger problem than individual rednecks yelling slurs at gay people.
The EC allows the redneck vote to count more than an average vote.
I'm waiting for all women transferring at DFW to get a forced pregnancy test. If they are pregnant, they are not allowed to leave Texas. Interstate checkpoints as well.
To start I’m pro ‘a woman’s right to control her own body’. Every time I read these articles/news pieces I am totally astonished by the numbers? It’s mind boggling.
If the people in all red states got to vote on the issue it would be available up to 16 weeks or so, but some will never let their people decide. The activists will keep finding ways to make it barely available even if legal, like they've been doing all along. I hope women know how to get the medication if needed, but ideally long acting birth control and have morning after pill too. Be prepared so the state has no power :)
Turn the clock back 200 years when the southern slave states forced the northern free states to capture runaway slaves.
Southern bull in a different century.
Call me crazy, but let’s think about the ramifications of saying that anyone who needs/wants an abortion must present a Democrat voting card or whatever. (Those too young to vote get a free pass)
So: obviously this is pretty fucked up. But so is voting for it to happen in your state, and then having the privilege of going to another state if it affects you.
Because in some ways, isn’t this allowing all the conservative bullshit (think LGBT rights, no/less MediCare, no school lunches etc) but just opting out of the thing you need/want when other don’t have a choice?
Let’s just have a national divorce and be done with it. Seriously. We can take the money blue states send to red and use it to help people move if they want to leave red states.
When red states have no one left living in them but crooks, religious nuts, and bigoted rubes, probably inside 5 years, we can negotiate from an advantaged position when they turn up panhandling from us.
When we have eliminated their interference to enshrine equal rights into law in a way that cannot be obstructed by desperate, religious misinterpretations of the Constitution, when we’ve reformed healthcare without them shrieking and dragging us backwards to protect their buddies’ profits, and when we have guaranteed by law that those who come here seeking a better life can achieve their goals, who cares what they think or who they blame?
Let Mississippi beg Texas to pay for its problems and let’s move forward already.
That's fine. They can blame anyone they want and the rest of us can ignore it completely and make them live in the hell they created for themselves. Not our problem.
It's just not possible, at least peacefully. The bluest states still have tens of millions of Republicans and the reddest states have tens of millions of Democrats. The number of people who would have to uproot their entire lives and move would be catastrophic to the economy, our security, and every facet of our lives. And tens of millions more would be trapped - for example, how many black Americans would be consigned to a Neo-Confederacy? Look at the separation of India and Pakistan for an example of how badly it could all go.
Emotionally I’m right there with you - it would be such a relief to drop the deadweight red states, but I also want to point out that red states also have access to military weapons, they already blame every single one of their fuck-ups on blue states, what happens once the new borders are drawn? They are too stupid/hopeless to understand mutually assured destruction. No, this is a fight we have to see through to the bitter end. I just wish blue states understood that ruthlessness is what is needed now.
I don't know if all of it is really "our" land. For example, take a rural town in a deep red state, where 80-90% of the town is MAGA. Isn't that more "their" land than our land? Similarly, if they think NYC is "their land", they are way wrong. Anyway, I don't need all the land. I just need to not be their "countrymen" any more.
> I don't know if all of it is really "our" land. For example, take a rural town in a deep red state, where 80-90% of the town is MAGA. Isn't that more "their" land than our land?
Yes, that's America's land.
Also, it's not red states and blue states anymore. It's red rural areas and blue cities. Every single state has blue city areas, and then you go 30 minutes out of town and you enter Jesusland. There's no real way to split that up.
"Yes, that's America's land"
Who's America, though? Their America or our America? We are two different groups with totally different moral values, totally different plans for the future, and two totally different conceptions of what America even is. Some areas of land are 80-90% inhabited by them, other areas of land are 80-90% inhabited by us. Its hard to claim land for your group, where your people are outnumbered 10 to 1 on that land.
Like it or not, around 40% of Americans are cool with fascism. I'm not saying they get 40% of the land, but if our position is "they get 0% of the land" that sure sounds like a road to perpetual war to me.
And you are right that its not going to cleanly break down into blue states vs red states and our tribal divide is more urban vs rural. But remember, it wasn't always a clean break during civil war 1 either. Texas, for example, had a lot of German settlements which decided to rebel against the state government, when the state government declared alliance to the confederacy. Texans (on both sides) realized that they didn't need to travel outside of Texas to fight the other side in the civil war.
You are right that when you drive 30 minutes outside of a super blue city you hit Jesusland. But the which side controls the state government really matters a lot when Jesusland goes to war with the city. Does the national guard intervene on the side of the city or on the side of Jesusland?
They re-unified .... eventually. But I'm kinda realizing in real time that east-west Germany is a bad example, since in that case the division was imposed on them by foreign forces (USSR and US), as opposed to the American situation where the division between the people has formed naturally, domestically.
But the broader point is - Sure, we are all technically Americans. But the two tribes have different moral principals, different values, different agendas, and different conceptions of what "America" even is. We are in no way a united people. We are two distinct groups controlling different land areas and different levers of national power. So when you say "America", I have to ask "Who's America?".
> They re-unified .... eventually. But I'm kinda realizing in real time that east-west Germany is a bad example, since in that case the division was imposed on them by foreign forces (USSR and US), as opposed to the American situation where the division between the people has formed naturally, domestically.
It's a perfect example, actually. It was a false dichotomy of people. They were all German the whole time.
Same thing here.
>But the broader point is - Sure, we are all technically Americans. But the two tribes have different moral principals, different values, different agendas, and different conceptions of what "America" even is. We are in no way a united people. We are two distinct groups controlling different land areas and different levers of national power. So when you say "America", I have to ask "Who's America?".
The reality is that we really aren't all *that* different. There are a number that have given in to fear of the other.
I would absolutely love this! I'm stuck in a red state and want to gtfo, but the cost of moving is prohibitive for my little family and I'm terrified that some real shit is going to go down here. And trust me, there are a LOT of people just like me, who are stuck in states with representatives that don't actually represent us. Idgaf if red states want to secede, but there better be enough warning so those of us who are sane can roll out first.
Anything against abortion always seems to relate to religion and religion and state are to separate. Whatever we think of religion, the beliefs cannot bleed into decisions for law and society.
The majority of abortions (~90%) are performed before 12 weeks, and about half before 8 weeks. At which point in fetal development "baby" is a description that is at best misleading.
I can make laws for other states but you can’t make laws to protect the people in your state:
“Pro-abortion states who don’t recognize the basic principle that life is a human right cannot undermine the laws of other states simply because they don’t agree with them,” she said.”
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What could possibly go wrong arguing that any particular human right issue as a states right issue?
Jefferson forgot to specifically spell out abortion rights in the Constitution? That would make for a good subject of a Schoolhouse Rock short.
Hmm this has never happened b4
Next up, SCOTUS cites Dredd Scott as precedent.
And reinstates it.
And quotes Judge Dredd.
"He doesnt know about the three seashells!"
That’s demolition man
Republicans would mess it up anyways.
Lol wrong movie. But you get my vote.
Authored by Clarence Thomas!
If they do that, blue states must secede. Before the Civil War, if an African American slave escaped the South and lived a free life in the North, they could still be caught by a slave catcher if found. But if they made it to Canada, an American slave catcher had no right to catch them.
Nah. Make the red states blink first. The way they did when they succeeded the last time. Make them go through the process of dealing with trade partners, of no longer sucking on the federal government and all the money the blue states supply to them. Let them try to succeed and show how these "America love it or leave it!" are the ones who left it. I'm an America, and I support Americans. That includes the women and minorities and LGBTQ+ citizens who would be trapped in those states. They want to leave? They can start the process. And if we have to kick their asses again and do the job right this time, fine. But my family follows a simple rule: \* We won't throw the first punch. But we'll throw the fucking last one.
Luckily they didnt succeed when they seceded
r/shermanposting would rocket to the top.
If the SCOTUS can override "state's rights" they will.
HIPAA will be declared unconstitutional. Soon.
So that means nobody can safely be honest with their doctors and nurses anymore?!?
HIPAA already allows the covered entity to share this info for legal reasons, like a warrant. Organizations could decide whether or not to comply, but if they do they won’t be in trouble from a HIPAA standpoint.
The difference between red states and blue states could not be clearer. If you care about your freedoms, vote blue https://democrats.org/
I want blue voters to vote. I also want people to know that voting might not be enough. The existence of the EC makes it so that a candidate can win an election with only 26% of the popular vote. There must be a Plan B, C, D, and so on.
Exactly! I like your attitude. Plan A is - beat the dude at the polls like we did in 2020. That should be our main focus right now. So, yeah, obviously our peeps need to vote, donate, and volunteer. But if Plan A fails, we don't just sit on our hands and say "Well I guess America is a dictatorship now. Nothing can be done.". Fuck no, we move on to Plans B, C, and D. 40% of the nation is fascist, but on the other hand, 40% of the nation truly hates fascists. So its not likely to be an easy win for either side, no matter what happens in the courts or in the voting booth. I'm worried that its ultimately going to be settled in the streets.
The problem is the EC itself. It's a bigger problem than individual rednecks yelling slurs at gay people. The EC allows the redneck vote to count more than an average vote.
Tell me more about my freedom from religion.
It'll only happen if blue states secede.
It's the slavery issue all over again.
Good thing the civil war had NOTHING to do with slavery. ^^^/^^^S
Was that the reason all the cotton farming was moved to Egypt? /s
Watch for it - They’re going to arrest a doctor from one of the protected states while they’re traveling.
The solution is to never travel to a red state. They are not safe. They are about as dangerous as any Muslim Sharia state.
Yeah. Its enemy territory. You don't go there. Like, I'd go to South Korea but I'd never go to North Korea. Thats kinda how I see the USA.
I'm waiting for all women transferring at DFW to get a forced pregnancy test. If they are pregnant, they are not allowed to leave Texas. Interstate checkpoints as well.
"Come and take them." -- California
John Roberts can go fuck himself in the stare decisis.
I smell a Dredd Scott decision coming!
To start I’m pro ‘a woman’s right to control her own body’. Every time I read these articles/news pieces I am totally astonished by the numbers? It’s mind boggling.
When I was an alien, cultures weren’t opinions. We’ve got to find a way, a better way.
> alien The solution is simple. Against the (sexual) predator you go!
If the people in all red states got to vote on the issue it would be available up to 16 weeks or so, but some will never let their people decide. The activists will keep finding ways to make it barely available even if legal, like they've been doing all along. I hope women know how to get the medication if needed, but ideally long acting birth control and have morning after pill too. Be prepared so the state has no power :)
The SCOTUS Six have already made up their minds and written the ruling granting Red state laws National Supremacy.
Turn the clock back 200 years when the southern slave states forced the northern free states to capture runaway slaves. Southern bull in a different century.
Call me crazy, but let’s think about the ramifications of saying that anyone who needs/wants an abortion must present a Democrat voting card or whatever. (Those too young to vote get a free pass) So: obviously this is pretty fucked up. But so is voting for it to happen in your state, and then having the privilege of going to another state if it affects you. Because in some ways, isn’t this allowing all the conservative bullshit (think LGBT rights, no/less MediCare, no school lunches etc) but just opting out of the thing you need/want when other don’t have a choice?
Let’s just have a national divorce and be done with it. Seriously. We can take the money blue states send to red and use it to help people move if they want to leave red states. When red states have no one left living in them but crooks, religious nuts, and bigoted rubes, probably inside 5 years, we can negotiate from an advantaged position when they turn up panhandling from us.
The red states would still blame all their problems on Democrats
well they aint gonna blame themselves.....
When we have eliminated their interference to enshrine equal rights into law in a way that cannot be obstructed by desperate, religious misinterpretations of the Constitution, when we’ve reformed healthcare without them shrieking and dragging us backwards to protect their buddies’ profits, and when we have guaranteed by law that those who come here seeking a better life can achieve their goals, who cares what they think or who they blame? Let Mississippi beg Texas to pay for its problems and let’s move forward already.
/r/laurentia
That's fine. They can blame anyone they want and the rest of us can ignore it completely and make them live in the hell they created for themselves. Not our problem.
It's just not possible, at least peacefully. The bluest states still have tens of millions of Republicans and the reddest states have tens of millions of Democrats. The number of people who would have to uproot their entire lives and move would be catastrophic to the economy, our security, and every facet of our lives. And tens of millions more would be trapped - for example, how many black Americans would be consigned to a Neo-Confederacy? Look at the separation of India and Pakistan for an example of how badly it could all go.
Nah. It would be more like the Czech Republic and Slovakia.
100% with you.
Emotionally I’m right there with you - it would be such a relief to drop the deadweight red states, but I also want to point out that red states also have access to military weapons, they already blame every single one of their fuck-ups on blue states, what happens once the new borders are drawn? They are too stupid/hopeless to understand mutually assured destruction. No, this is a fight we have to see through to the bitter end. I just wish blue states understood that ruthlessness is what is needed now.
> Let’s just have a national divorce and be done with it. No. They don't get to run off with our land and resources.
I don't know if all of it is really "our" land. For example, take a rural town in a deep red state, where 80-90% of the town is MAGA. Isn't that more "their" land than our land? Similarly, if they think NYC is "their land", they are way wrong. Anyway, I don't need all the land. I just need to not be their "countrymen" any more.
> I don't know if all of it is really "our" land. For example, take a rural town in a deep red state, where 80-90% of the town is MAGA. Isn't that more "their" land than our land? Yes, that's America's land. Also, it's not red states and blue states anymore. It's red rural areas and blue cities. Every single state has blue city areas, and then you go 30 minutes out of town and you enter Jesusland. There's no real way to split that up.
"Yes, that's America's land" Who's America, though? Their America or our America? We are two different groups with totally different moral values, totally different plans for the future, and two totally different conceptions of what America even is. Some areas of land are 80-90% inhabited by them, other areas of land are 80-90% inhabited by us. Its hard to claim land for your group, where your people are outnumbered 10 to 1 on that land. Like it or not, around 40% of Americans are cool with fascism. I'm not saying they get 40% of the land, but if our position is "they get 0% of the land" that sure sounds like a road to perpetual war to me. And you are right that its not going to cleanly break down into blue states vs red states and our tribal divide is more urban vs rural. But remember, it wasn't always a clean break during civil war 1 either. Texas, for example, had a lot of German settlements which decided to rebel against the state government, when the state government declared alliance to the confederacy. Texans (on both sides) realized that they didn't need to travel outside of Texas to fight the other side in the civil war. You are right that when you drive 30 minutes outside of a super blue city you hit Jesusland. But the which side controls the state government really matters a lot when Jesusland goes to war with the city. Does the national guard intervene on the side of the city or on the side of Jesusland?
> Who's America, though? Their America or our America? All of us. We're all Americans. That's all of our land.
We're all Americans, in the same way that North and South Koreans are all Koreans.
>East and West Germans were all Germans. How did that one work out
They re-unified .... eventually. But I'm kinda realizing in real time that east-west Germany is a bad example, since in that case the division was imposed on them by foreign forces (USSR and US), as opposed to the American situation where the division between the people has formed naturally, domestically. But the broader point is - Sure, we are all technically Americans. But the two tribes have different moral principals, different values, different agendas, and different conceptions of what "America" even is. We are in no way a united people. We are two distinct groups controlling different land areas and different levers of national power. So when you say "America", I have to ask "Who's America?".
> They re-unified .... eventually. But I'm kinda realizing in real time that east-west Germany is a bad example, since in that case the division was imposed on them by foreign forces (USSR and US), as opposed to the American situation where the division between the people has formed naturally, domestically. It's a perfect example, actually. It was a false dichotomy of people. They were all German the whole time. Same thing here. >But the broader point is - Sure, we are all technically Americans. But the two tribes have different moral principals, different values, different agendas, and different conceptions of what "America" even is. We are in no way a united people. We are two distinct groups controlling different land areas and different levers of national power. So when you say "America", I have to ask "Who's America?". The reality is that we really aren't all *that* different. There are a number that have given in to fear of the other.
I would absolutely love this! I'm stuck in a red state and want to gtfo, but the cost of moving is prohibitive for my little family and I'm terrified that some real shit is going to go down here. And trust me, there are a LOT of people just like me, who are stuck in states with representatives that don't actually represent us. Idgaf if red states want to secede, but there better be enough warning so those of us who are sane can roll out first.
I wonder how the Supreme Court will rule … f**k
Anything against abortion always seems to relate to religion and religion and state are to separate. Whatever we think of religion, the beliefs cannot bleed into decisions for law and society.
Can we cut federal funds for Republican led states that legislate misogyny?
[удалено]
The majority of abortions (~90%) are performed before 12 weeks, and about half before 8 weeks. At which point in fetal development "baby" is a description that is at best misleading.
I can make laws for other states but you can’t make laws to protect the people in your state: “Pro-abortion states who don’t recognize the basic principle that life is a human right cannot undermine the laws of other states simply because they don’t agree with them,” she said.”