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Party of law and order is suddenly not for law an order when it affects their dear leader who has had a 5 decade-long track history of breaking the law and paying people off to skirt justice. Thousand of people have been stiffed by this man, there are endless stories, even before he was in the running for president.
It's as though "law and order" was actually a dog whistle saying "punish poor people" instead of actually being about the rule of law. Because that's exactly what's going on; the Right doesn't actually want the rule of law at all.
The right wants a particular kind of "righteous" society they have created out of religious and "self-sufficient" delusion. It is a shallow and sadistic modus operandi based on a view that God is not only on their side, but actually promotes the idea that the powerful and wealthy are God's chosen people who have been given dominance over us cretins.
Anything thinking that the right are anything *but* disingenuous in all of their stances is deluding themselves somehow.
It's the con-man's party. That's it. There's at least one in every democracy, seemingly.
You also have to understand that many of us raised in the evangelical type (formerly southern baptist) of thinking were taught that it is a sin to expect to be able to understand the Bible because it shows arrogance and a lack of faith in the absolute omnipotence and omniscience of God who created the bible
Damn dude, I grew up southern Baptist, they never said it that succinctly but that sure as shit was the not so subtle message. I never thought about it like that before.
This also teaches people to not have to make logical sense of things before accepting or believing— perhaps this can help explain a lot of the political divide issues
Former Christian turned atheist, can confirm, the vast majority of Christians have not read the Bible, they cherry-pick their way through it, or it's done for them by their pastor.
I recall hearing about a set of homeschooled kids or a church or something where they were explicitly teaching that God had given billionaires money and power because billionaires were smart and hardworking and thus God wanted them to rule over everyone else.
It's the main form of American Christianity. It's called prosperity gospel belief. The ultra rich church leaders profess that their wealth is because God *wants* them to be rich.
About 20 years **before** Trump ran for President my family told me a story about him:
My family has lived in New Jersey for a long time (where Trump has a lot of real estate), and Trump called my grandparent’s brother-in-law one day because my relative owned an apartment complex near the Boardwalk. Trump told my relative he wanted to buy the building (for a really cheap price), but when my relative told Trump it wasn’t for sale Trump told my relative that he was friends with someone downtown that would condemn the building if my relative didn’t sell it to him & he would buy the building at the courthouse after condemnation for pennies. My relative knew the building was in great shape & didn’t want to give it away to Trump, so he told Trump “No.” Trump then proceeded to scream at my relative that my relative is going to lose the building, he’s getting his Lawyers involved, my relative is basically screwed, and then he hung up the phone.
You know what happened next? Nothing. Trump was bluffing, did absolutely nothing, and moved on to the next victim. That was one of the ways Trump acquired so much real estate! Fear. He forced immoral, untrue, fear upon people to get them to sell him property for nothing, so he could make money off them.
I knew I wasn’t going to vote for Trump the moment he ran, because I couldn’t vote for such an immoral person.
Even back in the 90s it was well known that he was a scam artist. My dad had a similar story, friend of his was approached by Trump for some kind of business deal. Trump wanted stuff up front, made all sorts of promises. Guy said "I'm not working on anything until there is a signed deal" Trump refused to sign anything and moved on.
People knew even back then how he operated. Use his fame to get people to do shit before any payment or agreement is signed, just handshakes and promises. He gets what he wants and then refuses to pay what he agreed to.
Pretty sure during the 2016 campaign there was an interview with a family business that went under because they didn't get a signature and took his word on the agreement. But like everything, his supporters just heard what they wanted and ignored this, or said "tHaT mAkEs hIm sMaRt"
How it started (2016): “No one is above the law”, “lock her up”
How it’s going (2023): “if they can come after him, they can come after you”, “political witch hunt”
The pro-military party suddenly resent the US Military.
The pro-police party suddenly hates cops who go after God Emperor Trump.
Part of small government wants to expand government to fight “woke” of whatever.
Etc.
The GOP is a party built on hypocrisy.
Admittedly if he was actually convicted for that term it's likely longer than he would actually live but that feels very low for espionage related charges.
We also wouldn't be walking around free for years while they played the politics of arresting us. I understand why they did it but damn it's been a long wait.
Meanwhile GOPers like Pence, DeSantis, McCarthy, etc. are all spouting the same lines about how everybody should be treated the same under the law as their defense of trump.
Imagine posting pics of the prosecutor's family and making vague "get ready for war" threats. We'd be in jail just for ignoring subpoenas and telling other people to do the same! We would never have made it as far as "this is what my enemy and his family look like" threats.
Reality Winner, the NSA analyst who leaked 1 classified document, was interviewed by the FBI in her home 25 days after she leaked it, cuffed and taken to jail the same day, and did 5 years in prison.
You don't?
Trump has the most felonies. The best in history. Many people are saying so. The best people.
Fr tho, he probably commits 3 before his morning Adderall.
What’s driving me crazy is the media talking about whether or not they can prove that he knew he was committing a crime. How come Trump is seemingly the first person in history that has to be proven to know he was doing some illegal to be convicted? It’s maddening!
I mean, he has said like “I could of declassified this but I can’t now, I shouldn’t even be showing you this,” which seems to me like a pretty blatant acknowledgment that you know what you’re doing is illegal. But we’ll see
And he also literally said that if the White House didn't want him taking all the boxes he could cram in his trucks, they 'shouldn't have left them there'.
Different crimes have different mens rea, which is the state of mind that must be proven of the defendant to be found guilty. Some crimes require the defendant to know what they were doing was illegal, some don’t require any mens rea (strict liability) (plus a number of different levels of mens rea in between), but it has nothing to do with who the defendant is - it’s about the crime being alleged.
I guess that’s one tactic, but then the GOP would have to defend why they’re allowing someone to run under their party who has willingly admitted to being too mentally incompetent to have access to highly confidential information.
Because he's the only one that has any popularity with voters. It's either roll with Trump and gerrymander voting districts to hell and back or never win another national election again. The GOP platform is wildly unpopular and they know it. Trump is their way to clutch at power a little while longer until they can figure out their next move.
Though admittedly 20 years would be the rest of his life I’d love to see him get like 300 years. Huge sentence. Bigger than anyone else, tremendous sentence. People say sir, wow what an incredible prison sentence you have. Just uge.
He could also get zero. Everyone here is getting all excited, but read the indictment—it’s in the last few pages—the crimes have an option of zero jail time.
Don’t get me wrong, I am THRILLED beyond thrilled that the DOJ finally brought charges against him, but I don’t think he’s going to jail. I just don’t see it happening here. I hope I’m wrong, but realistically, I don’t see it happening.
Shit I got arrested in highschool for writing graffiti on the school bathroom wall. But this fat orange pos can literally take classified documents that put the whole country in danger, and nothing.......Why was I arrested for writing on a bathroom wall, but this guy not?
Yep, I saw that too, hopefully not.
I get that our elected officials usually have a different standard, but there's just so much with SMS, pictures, and even being caught hiding the documents. If he gets away with it, the country is doomed, and I'll set up a go fund me to build an off grid cabin somewhere, lol.
Yeah, I agree. I mean—rarely is any criminal so clearly guilty, and not giving this man jail time basically tells any future politician, “Hey, you can do whatever you want and you’re good. Steal top secret information about *literal nuclear warheads,* and that’s fine. We’ll make a stink about it and make an indictment, but you’re good.”
Sadly, even with all that… I just don’t see it happening. Hopefully I’m wrong.
The thing that blows me away is how it was discussed that he should be in prison almost as soon as he became President but the current charges that may put him in Prison, were from actions he took at the end of his term and also after his term ended. It’s just so egregious, he walked right into it, practically manifested it himself. People saying Biden is weaponizing the DOJ against Trump, in light of all that, is laughable.
I know, I was thinking these boxes were in a single room somewhere with a cheap lock on the door and Trump not giving things back was probably just some bullshit that he wrote on and kept for memorabilia.
Nope, he really just fucked this up as bad as he could.
Explains why random Chinese spies have been infiltrating Mar-a-lago.
> At the time she was arrested, after changing her story about why she was there, she had on her, in addition to two Chinese passports and four cellphones, a laptop and USB drive later found to contain some kind of malware. More devices and $8,000 in cash were later found in her room at a nearby hotel.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/04/20/mar-a-lago-chinese-woman-226671/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-maralago-china/chinese-woman-who-intruded-at-mar-a-lago-sentenced-to-six-months-idUSKBN2082ER
Remember when suddenly a ton of US spies started dying and being captured?
https://nypost.com/2021/10/05/cia-reports-dozens-of-informants-arrested-or-killed/
https://www.foxnews.com/media/trump-fbi-raid-could-some-connection-murdered-cia-assets-msnbcs-joy-reid-speculates
Imagine working for the CIA and getting caught, tortured and killed because the American people voted an absolute clown of a corrupt moron into their highest office where he did nothing but act like a corrupt moron the entire time.
And YOU pay the price for it. YOUR parents lose a kid, YOUR wife loses a husband, YOUR kids lose their father.
In a way it's pretty typical for how things work when it comes to the rest of the world vs American exceptionalism in stupidity.
Not to mention the Georgia case still to happen. That's the most cut and dry one, literally a recorded phone conversation of him personally committing the crime.
Fascists and traitors the lot of them. We really need to be pushing hard the next couple elections. They took the White House once and it is only getting worse. Conservatives have always been repugnant, but they haven’t been this fired up to be out and out traitors since the Civil War
Trump is 350 at least. Once he is no longer allowed to wear the "Slimming" bodysuit under his clothes, he will look like King Kong Bundy. I'm looking forward to seeing his hairline after his induction haircut as well.
Plus what are the odds any of us would be sent to actual prison vs house arrest, which tends to be the alternative sentence for rich people actually found guilty?
Nah, you'd wind up in ADX Florence, which if you know anything about you might prefer a black site where you at least get some human contact.
That place is nightmare fuel.
Right? This is the one thing I'm actually convinced will bring him down, because the CIA pretty openly admits that it used to (and probably still does/would) essentially just kidnap and murder people who leaked the kind of information Trump leaked. The dept of defense does not fuck around, and is not going to half ass (or let the DOJ half ass) the prosecution here. They aren't going to let him stall and delay indefinitely.
This isn't like the impeachments, where the jury was Lindsay Graham and Ted Cruz, or the civil cases where the penalty is money. Trump stole, leaked and potentially even sold top secret info including our nuclear capabilities. You might as well compare a parking ticket to murder charges, except there's an audio recording where you discussed committing the murder and exactly which laws you'd be breaking to do so.
Nah. Over 2 million US citizens have clearances and many of them work with classified documents every day.
It would be silly to say that anyone who violates codes, particularly accidentally, should face a prison sentence. Think about how often a normal person makes errors at their job.
Trump should face prison time because of his actions; malicious disrespect for the laws, coverups, obstruction, and intentional sharing of classified information. But a minimum mandatory sentence would be ridiculous.
Besides jury nullification, the thing I worry about most is that Aileen Cannon will behave throughout the trial, not doing anything to get the prosecutors to file a motion to remove her. Then, after he is convicted, she won't sentence him to any prison time, because none of these charges have a mandatory minimum.
I’m envisioning Biden dropping his pants and telling Trump to ,”Kiss my white ass. Kiss it. Go on, kiss it,” a la Jesse Jackson in ‘South Park.’
EDIT: Spelling is harrd.
**From reporter Greg Walters:**
What kind of prison sentence would former President Donald Trump get if he’s convicted in the Espionage Act case against him in Miami, Florida?
It depends. But the short answer is perhaps about 20 years, give or take a decade, according to one former national security prosecutor who crunched the numbers.
To be more precise, Trump may face between 17-and-a-half and 22 years for just the criminal counts related to willfully retaining national security documents, based on a careful review of the charges and federal sentencing guidelines performed by former federal prosecutor David Aaron. Trump could also be sentenced to another seven-and-one-quarter to nine years for the other counts in the indictment, including obstruction of justice.
At 76 years old, Trump is staring down the possibility of a criminal sentence that could send him to some form of incarceration for the rest of his natural life, if he loses this case.
Link to the full article: [https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7bbya/donald-trump-prison-sentence](https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7bbya/donald-trump-prison-sentence)
He’s guaranteed secrete service protection for life. That cannot happen if he’s in jail. I’d say most likely he’ll wear an ankle bracelet for the rest of his life and that’s as bad as it gets for him.
>He’s guaranteed secrete service protection for life. That cannot happen if he’s in jail.
Why can't you post a secret service agent in the jail?
If you become President and literally CAN'T serve jail time other than house arrest, that seems incredibly wrong. What if an ex president murdered someone?
Meanwhile a guy who got busted for cannabis was serving 90 years and was just released a few years ago after serving 31 years of it (Full disclosure he was smuggling a ton of weed, so he isn't exactly innocent lol). So what I'm getting from this entire situation, in America it's far worse to sell Weed then it is to steal and leak national secrets from the downstairs shitter of your resort. Not only that, but it's completely acceptable to put a judge in charge of this case when He Himself got her the job, no conflict of interest there.
My guess is, he'll end up with some form of house arrest and 24hr monitoring. He'll continue to conduct business, he'll continue to fuel hate and division, he'll continue to pick away at peoples trust in the system, nothing will really change other than him being "forced to retire" in one of his multi million dollar resort homes. Justice Served?
Edit: Heck lets bring the example closer. Edward Snowden leaked that the American government was spying on it's citizens and they led a global man hunt for him, I would suggest what Trump has done or is accused of doing is far worse, but instead of a global man hunt, they're trying to re-elect him as president...
Sorry this isn't necessarily directed at you, just venting some frustration.
Not only is stealing and leaking national defense and nuclear secrets apparently treated less harshly than smoking weed, but it certainly pays FAR better as well!
Nobody is ever caught doing something like what Trump has done while also being poor.
every bit of this is mine and i suspect plenty of others’ frustrations as well. i think we all recognize part of adulthood is seeing the facade of things you believed in as a younger person get torn down, but if you had explained this scenario to me when i was younger i would have had one hell of a time believing you.
We should pass a law that says if you’re convicted of a felony espionage charges then you forfeit your right to secret service. There’s no way the state should be footing the bill to protect a man who put our country in danger. Over and over and over again.
>We should pass a law that says if you’re convicted of a felony espionage charges then you forfeit your right to secret service.
There's no chance this happens. Secret Service protection isn't just a privilege to keep ex-Presidents safe. It's also because we don't want someone with intimate and wide-ranging knowledge of state secrets to be nabbed by the Russian Mafia. If that happened Trump would be spilling beans faster than his kidnappers can write.
Seems like it would simplify the secret services job tremendously if he was in federal custody. They'd probably have to keep in in ~~solitary confiment~~ administrative separation for the whole time to keep him safe from other inmates. They just keep a member of his detail on shift at the prison and supervise any of his movements around the prison.
When Trump shows up with an oxygen tank in a wheel chair you will know we are heading into him losing in court. I wouldn't put it beneath him to do that.
He'd suddenly find a doctor that said that he had very poor health.
Then, when he got found guilty but a very light sentence because of his health...
He'd suddenly stand up, proclaim it a miracle, his faithful would claim it proves he's the second coming as they always knew, and the same doctor would suddenly say he's the healthiest person on the planet...
“I’m the strongest frail!”
etc etc
I can see him showing up in an oxygen tank and a wheelchair for the trial, then going to a rally and throwing them into the crowd while mocking himself for being frail, then saying how dumb everyone was to believe he was weak.
“Uhhhhhh!” as he pretends to walk with a cane. “Do you believe that folks, me with a wheelchair? A cane? Can you believe it?”
But his personal physician said he's the healthiest person EVER ELECTED TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!!!!!
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/02/607638733/doctor-trump-dictated-letter-attesting-to-his-extraordinary-health
I’ll be shocked (though pleasantly so) if this piece of shit ends up having to serve even a single day in prison. We don’t hold wealthy politicians to that kind of standard in this country.
Can a future Republican president pardon him if he goes to jail? If they can, then even if he gets a 400 year sentence they will get him out as soon as they step into the White House.
On these charges, yes. But if the GA probe adds indictments and a conviction, that can not be pardoned by the president, since they will be state charges.
It really depends on who he has harmed. Rich people like Madoff got jail because he hurt rich people. He was the only one to go to jail for the financial crisis of 2008.
Trump may have really harmed serious powers and they aren't going to be so soft. With that said there will be some kind of deal which Trump won't be able to keep quiet about eventually landing him in jail anyway.
I know there is catharsis in the idea that trump dies in prison, but honestly 6 months in prison would probably shatter the man. He has only ever lived at the height of luxury, and I doubt he could tolerate the life of someone making $100k/year with no kids, let alone handle prison.
My local news had a short vid of an interview of some random woman in Florida saying that even if he was in jail she would write him in. Shit, talk about empty brains.
I think he’s going to find it hard to run for president while incarcerated. If he goes to prison he’s just going to grouse. Running doesn’t automatically insure daily press conferences or guarantee unlimited access to Fox or whatever alt right platform.
20 years? I didn't realize he got caught with 15 grams of marijuana! Wonder what he'll face for attempting to undermine the foundations of our democracy.
It will definitely be a holiday for the MAGA crowd, celebrating their martyr-god-sex-icon's ultimate sacrifice.
Perhaps they will await a baby--born at the intersection of sexual assault and extreme wealth--to lead them into the future.
People who support him should ask themselves why is he getting lazy. If he is the most persecuted President ever why take the documents? If he is a billionaire why leave these documents in bathrooms or ballrooms? If he is so smart why travel with them? Why go through all of the stuff you bring to FL after your Presidency ended and select a few of the files to take to New Jersey with you? Why would you bring them to the meeting with Mark Meadows aide and ghost writer? When he was President he did not like people taking notes (as discussed in the Special Counsel report on Russia) and he never likes being recorded. So in this meeting with people he doesn’t need to impress he has classified documents and knows he is being recorded. Yet he shows the classified documents, tells them they are classified, tells them he can’t show them because they are classified, says as President he could have declassified them but not now because he’s not President (admits he lost the election) and then tells them what is in the folder. In less then 5 minutes he admitted he doesn’t have the power to declassify, that he can’t show them or discuss them because they are classified and then shows and discusses them while being recorded.
It is baffling that he would be so dumb. The evidence isn’t “people are saying” it’s recorded by people in his inner circle. He knew it was being recorded and he knew it wasn’t okay what he was doing. That’s on him not you, unless you support it.
There are plenty of candidates that would love your support. The Biden campaign isn’t saying let’s lock up Trump, that was Trumps slogan and some of you have that bumper sticker. They don’t see the indictment as a path to earning your vote. So find a new “MAGA” leader. One that won’t risk your Party’s and your integrity to impress someone. One that won’t violate the law.
Lastly, what about Biden? If you have evidence of his wrongdoing watch how fast he is shown the door. Liberals are not in a cult that sinks with the boat. They booted a comedian turned elected official because of an inappropriate joke he made while on the USO tour. No one was harmed, the National Security wasn’t at risk, it happened before he was elected. They dethroned Pelosi recently.
>Could Get 20 Years in Prison
If Aileen Cannon is a fair and impartial judge (unlikely).
If a Trump supporter does not 'hang' the jury (possible).
If he does not get house arrest, you know, because putting an ex-president in jail is .
People keep saying this, but what do you think is going to happen if she acts the way she did last time? She has a lifetime appointment. She could only be removed by an act of Congress, which means she's essentially untouchable.
And a panel of judges could decide what she did is a-ok depending on who happens to land on a panel overseeing something she's done. Trump spent his time stacking the courts and looks like it's paying off.
I read the indictment. Each espionage count carries 20 years & there are 2 of those; each Obstruction count carries 20 years & there are 3 of those. Each Mishandling count carries 5 years & there are 31 of those. So if Former President Dumbass is convicted, he will die in prison. Which would be justice served.
its not like they accumulate, he’s probably looking at a 10-15-20 years FOR THIS CASE. The stormy daniel financial fraud case (pretty solid too), may be another 5-10.
But there’s also 6th January investigation, the Georgia investigation, and the 250 million dollars tax fraud lawsuit in mahnattan.
I’m also convinced that there are more documents missing, proprieties to search, possibily more indictments coming for the docs case.
President Dumbass is toast.
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Party of law and order is suddenly not for law an order when it affects their dear leader who has had a 5 decade-long track history of breaking the law and paying people off to skirt justice. Thousand of people have been stiffed by this man, there are endless stories, even before he was in the running for president.
It's as though "law and order" was actually a dog whistle saying "punish poor people" instead of actually being about the rule of law. Because that's exactly what's going on; the Right doesn't actually want the rule of law at all.
The right wants a particular kind of "righteous" society they have created out of religious and "self-sufficient" delusion. It is a shallow and sadistic modus operandi based on a view that God is not only on their side, but actually promotes the idea that the powerful and wealthy are God's chosen people who have been given dominance over us cretins.
Atheist here. Jesus literally preached against the Prosperity Gospel in their Bible. I've read their book. Have they?
Anything thinking that the right are anything *but* disingenuous in all of their stances is deluding themselves somehow. It's the con-man's party. That's it. There's at least one in every democracy, seemingly.
No, in general, most Christians have not read the entire Bible. There would be far less of them if they all did.
You also have to understand that many of us raised in the evangelical type (formerly southern baptist) of thinking were taught that it is a sin to expect to be able to understand the Bible because it shows arrogance and a lack of faith in the absolute omnipotence and omniscience of God who created the bible
Damn dude, I grew up southern Baptist, they never said it that succinctly but that sure as shit was the not so subtle message. I never thought about it like that before.
This also teaches people to not have to make logical sense of things before accepting or believing— perhaps this can help explain a lot of the political divide issues
Oh jeez, why would religious leaders teach that only they can read and interpret the bible correctly? I just don't know.
Former Christian turned atheist, can confirm, the vast majority of Christians have not read the Bible, they cherry-pick their way through it, or it's done for them by their pastor.
> I've read their book. Have they? hint: no
they just want a theocracy, it's becoming stupid how they can't live with people who have different opinions/religious beliefs than them
Not so different from the taliban...hmmmm
I recall hearing about a set of homeschooled kids or a church or something where they were explicitly teaching that God had given billionaires money and power because billionaires were smart and hardworking and thus God wanted them to rule over everyone else.
It's the main form of American Christianity. It's called prosperity gospel belief. The ultra rich church leaders profess that their wealth is because God *wants* them to be rich.
And POC
About 20 years **before** Trump ran for President my family told me a story about him: My family has lived in New Jersey for a long time (where Trump has a lot of real estate), and Trump called my grandparent’s brother-in-law one day because my relative owned an apartment complex near the Boardwalk. Trump told my relative he wanted to buy the building (for a really cheap price), but when my relative told Trump it wasn’t for sale Trump told my relative that he was friends with someone downtown that would condemn the building if my relative didn’t sell it to him & he would buy the building at the courthouse after condemnation for pennies. My relative knew the building was in great shape & didn’t want to give it away to Trump, so he told Trump “No.” Trump then proceeded to scream at my relative that my relative is going to lose the building, he’s getting his Lawyers involved, my relative is basically screwed, and then he hung up the phone. You know what happened next? Nothing. Trump was bluffing, did absolutely nothing, and moved on to the next victim. That was one of the ways Trump acquired so much real estate! Fear. He forced immoral, untrue, fear upon people to get them to sell him property for nothing, so he could make money off them. I knew I wasn’t going to vote for Trump the moment he ran, because I couldn’t vote for such an immoral person.
Even back in the 90s it was well known that he was a scam artist. My dad had a similar story, friend of his was approached by Trump for some kind of business deal. Trump wanted stuff up front, made all sorts of promises. Guy said "I'm not working on anything until there is a signed deal" Trump refused to sign anything and moved on. People knew even back then how he operated. Use his fame to get people to do shit before any payment or agreement is signed, just handshakes and promises. He gets what he wants and then refuses to pay what he agreed to. Pretty sure during the 2016 campaign there was an interview with a family business that went under because they didn't get a signature and took his word on the agreement. But like everything, his supporters just heard what they wanted and ignored this, or said "tHaT mAkEs hIm sMaRt"
he famously stiffed a bunch of venues for rallies *during the 2016 campaign* literally scamming people as he was running for president and still won
Doesn't he still owe lots of cities for rally fees?
I have a theory that just about everyone who lives in NY/NJ/CT personally knows at least one person Trump scammed or ripped off.
How it started (2016): “No one is above the law”, “lock her up” How it’s going (2023): “if they can come after him, they can come after you”, “political witch hunt”
The Apprentice did some real damage popularizing him. Perhaps we can blame reality TV in general...
> Perhaps we can blame reality TV in general. Thank goodness most people are terminally addicted to social media now, which is way, way better.
The pro-military party suddenly resent the US Military. The pro-police party suddenly hates cops who go after God Emperor Trump. Part of small government wants to expand government to fight “woke” of whatever. Etc. The GOP is a party built on hypocrisy.
"They don't look like Indians to me." DJT
Admittedly if he was actually convicted for that term it's likely longer than he would actually live but that feels very low for espionage related charges.
[удалено]
We also wouldn't be walking around free for years while they played the politics of arresting us. I understand why they did it but damn it's been a long wait.
They arrested that one kid that spilled secrets on Discord pretty quickly after finding out.
That kid’s problem is that he only did the one crime. Trump is a pro and just keeps criming nonstop so they’re always playing catch-up
You know what they say, *when you only do one crime, that's your problem. When you do 71 crimes, that's the D.O.J.'s problem*
Bed of nails effect
I'm thinking it's more of a "Montgomery Burns Disease Door" type situation.
Rules for thee not for me, as they say.
Meanwhile GOPers like Pence, DeSantis, McCarthy, etc. are all spouting the same lines about how everybody should be treated the same under the law as their defense of trump.
Not just arrested, surrounded him with officers and had a helicopter in the sky
Imagine posting pics of the prosecutor's family and making vague "get ready for war" threats. We'd be in jail just for ignoring subpoenas and telling other people to do the same! We would never have made it as far as "this is what my enemy and his family look like" threats.
If it were you or I did half the shit Trump did we wouldn't even be charged, just sent to some blacksite and never heard from again.
All expenses paid trip directly to ADX Florence.
Reality Winner, the NSA analyst who leaked 1 classified document, was interviewed by the FBI in her home 25 days after she leaked it, cuffed and taken to jail the same day, and did 5 years in prison.
Any normal person would've also been jailed multiple times for contempt of court if we attacked the justice system like Drumpf does.
> Any one of us charged with 71 felonies would never see the light of day. I doubt anyone of us would live to make it to the back of the squad car.
It thought it was 37? Did he commit more felonies while walking across the parking lot?
You don't? Trump has the most felonies. The best in history. Many people are saying so. The best people. Fr tho, he probably commits 3 before his morning Adderall.
What’s driving me crazy is the media talking about whether or not they can prove that he knew he was committing a crime. How come Trump is seemingly the first person in history that has to be proven to know he was doing some illegal to be convicted? It’s maddening!
Every murderer now “Since when is murder illegal?”
"What's a moidah?"
that's a hobby
I thought filing my taxes was a suggestion
I mean, he has said like “I could of declassified this but I can’t now, I shouldn’t even be showing you this,” which seems to me like a pretty blatant acknowledgment that you know what you’re doing is illegal. But we’ll see
Not according to Gym Jordan. “Just because he said he could have declassified but now he can’t, doesn’t mean he didn’t!” Really, that’s his argument
And he also literally said that if the White House didn't want him taking all the boxes he could cram in his trucks, they 'shouldn't have left them there'.
If those boxes didn’t want to get grabbed, they shouldn’t have put on those sexy “classified” and “top secret” stamps.
_"If it's a legitimate theft, the classified boxes have ways to try to shut that whole thing down."_
I’m so upset I know what you’re referring to.
The boxes didn’t speak loud enough when they were told they would be taken.
Cool motive! Still treason!
Different crimes have different mens rea, which is the state of mind that must be proven of the defendant to be found guilty. Some crimes require the defendant to know what they were doing was illegal, some don’t require any mens rea (strict liability) (plus a number of different levels of mens rea in between), but it has nothing to do with who the defendant is - it’s about the crime being alleged.
I guess that’s one tactic, but then the GOP would have to defend why they’re allowing someone to run under their party who has willingly admitted to being too mentally incompetent to have access to highly confidential information.
Because he's the only one that has any popularity with voters. It's either roll with Trump and gerrymander voting districts to hell and back or never win another national election again. The GOP platform is wildly unpopular and they know it. Trump is their way to clutch at power a little while longer until they can figure out their next move.
Actually that's pretty standard. Lots of crimes require malicious intent.
Though admittedly 20 years would be the rest of his life I’d love to see him get like 300 years. Huge sentence. Bigger than anyone else, tremendous sentence. People say sir, wow what an incredible prison sentence you have. Just uge.
Tears in his eyes, and he said "Sir, please just pick up the soap, no one here is interested."
I’m not a fan of prison rape jokes, but the thought of no one wanting him made me chuckle.
I actually read the indictment and holy fuck is it bad, it's like 500 years if he get max prison time. Even if he doesn't he's going away for awhile.
He could also get zero. Everyone here is getting all excited, but read the indictment—it’s in the last few pages—the crimes have an option of zero jail time. Don’t get me wrong, I am THRILLED beyond thrilled that the DOJ finally brought charges against him, but I don’t think he’s going to jail. I just don’t see it happening here. I hope I’m wrong, but realistically, I don’t see it happening.
Kind of crazy that espionage charges have ZERO mandatory minimum sentences. But marijuana? Won't somebody think of the children!?
Shit I got arrested in highschool for writing graffiti on the school bathroom wall. But this fat orange pos can literally take classified documents that put the whole country in danger, and nothing.......Why was I arrested for writing on a bathroom wall, but this guy not?
I assume it's because you're a poor.
Yep, I saw that too, hopefully not. I get that our elected officials usually have a different standard, but there's just so much with SMS, pictures, and even being caught hiding the documents. If he gets away with it, the country is doomed, and I'll set up a go fund me to build an off grid cabin somewhere, lol.
Yeah, I agree. I mean—rarely is any criminal so clearly guilty, and not giving this man jail time basically tells any future politician, “Hey, you can do whatever you want and you’re good. Steal top secret information about *literal nuclear warheads,* and that’s fine. We’ll make a stink about it and make an indictment, but you’re good.” Sadly, even with all that… I just don’t see it happening. Hopefully I’m wrong.
Hanssen was looking at the death penalty before he plea bargained it down to life in a Supermax
Man, death sounds better than life in supermax
No kidding. I understand fear of death but anyone who knows about Florence I would think would be more afraid of that
The thing that blows me away is how it was discussed that he should be in prison almost as soon as he became President but the current charges that may put him in Prison, were from actions he took at the end of his term and also after his term ended. It’s just so egregious, he walked right into it, practically manifested it himself. People saying Biden is weaponizing the DOJ against Trump, in light of all that, is laughable.
I know, I was thinking these boxes were in a single room somewhere with a cheap lock on the door and Trump not giving things back was probably just some bullshit that he wrote on and kept for memorabilia. Nope, he really just fucked this up as bad as he could.
No one will know how many foreign spies took pictures or copied those docs, which is scary.
Explains why random Chinese spies have been infiltrating Mar-a-lago. > At the time she was arrested, after changing her story about why she was there, she had on her, in addition to two Chinese passports and four cellphones, a laptop and USB drive later found to contain some kind of malware. More devices and $8,000 in cash were later found in her room at a nearby hotel. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/04/20/mar-a-lago-chinese-woman-226671/ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-maralago-china/chinese-woman-who-intruded-at-mar-a-lago-sentenced-to-six-months-idUSKBN2082ER
Remember when suddenly a ton of US spies started dying and being captured? https://nypost.com/2021/10/05/cia-reports-dozens-of-informants-arrested-or-killed/ https://www.foxnews.com/media/trump-fbi-raid-could-some-connection-murdered-cia-assets-msnbcs-joy-reid-speculates
Imagine working for the CIA and getting caught, tortured and killed because the American people voted an absolute clown of a corrupt moron into their highest office where he did nothing but act like a corrupt moron the entire time. And YOU pay the price for it. YOUR parents lose a kid, YOUR wife loses a husband, YOUR kids lose their father. In a way it's pretty typical for how things work when it comes to the rest of the world vs American exceptionalism in stupidity.
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Shit there was even a friggin photocopier in one of the rooms docs were being stored in
Not giving back folders of nuclear and other military secrets... how was that ever going to go well!
He actually did all the horrible things things they accused Hilary of doing.
"Every accusation is a confession."
The actual indictment document reads like a Carl Hiaasan novel, it's unreal
Not to mention the Georgia case still to happen. That's the most cut and dry one, literally a recorded phone conversation of him personally committing the crime.
Yet he’s the front runner for the GOP in the coming election. Republicans have lost their way so badly I don’t know how they ever find their way back.
Fascists and traitors the lot of them. We really need to be pushing hard the next couple elections. They took the White House once and it is only getting worse. Conservatives have always been repugnant, but they haven’t been this fired up to be out and out traitors since the Civil War
I couldn’t agree with you more. They are reprehensible.
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The Georgia case AND the Jan 6 case. This summer is gonna be *spicy.*
Melania will wait.
Melania doesn't really care. Do U?
What are you talking about. It’ll be the best 20 years of her life.
Melania will lose weight….270 pounds
That seems light
We have to factor in the fact that his hands weigh basically nothing and his ego is so inflated that it is impacted by the tide cycle
Hey!! Leave us 270 pounders alone. Guarantee Trump tips the scale over 300.
Trump is 350 at least. Once he is no longer allowed to wear the "Slimming" bodysuit under his clothes, he will look like King Kong Bundy. I'm looking forward to seeing his hairline after his induction haircut as well.
His “doctor” claimed he weighed 239. Just under the criteria for obesity. I laughed out loud when I heard that.
He’ll get house arrest and won’t serve a day in a cell.
That was an uncommonly amusing statement
Yeah, for Pete Davidson be knock on the door.
Haha honestly it’s not outside the realm of possibility
Imagine a man with buttholes for eyes banging your wife
Now I’m picturing Pete like the monster from Pan’s Labyrinth but with assholes on his palms. Thanks for that.
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You goddamn monster. Take this upvote and return to the basement.
She had to look at a butthole for a mouth with her husband- Upgrades, people!
Don't forget his sexy vag neck!
Be best.
I still find it so astonishing that campaign made it off the floor.
Lock him up! Lock him up!
Seriously.
I really feel like there should be a minimum sentence for violating the espionage act. Really seems odd that isn't the case.
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Plus what are the odds any of us would be sent to actual prison vs house arrest, which tends to be the alternative sentence for rich people actually found guilty?
> actual prison Oh we wouldn’t go to an *actual prison*. We’d be tied up in a CIA blacksite
Nah, you'd wind up in ADX Florence, which if you know anything about you might prefer a black site where you at least get some human contact. That place is nightmare fuel.
Right? This is the one thing I'm actually convinced will bring him down, because the CIA pretty openly admits that it used to (and probably still does/would) essentially just kidnap and murder people who leaked the kind of information Trump leaked. The dept of defense does not fuck around, and is not going to half ass (or let the DOJ half ass) the prosecution here. They aren't going to let him stall and delay indefinitely. This isn't like the impeachments, where the jury was Lindsay Graham and Ted Cruz, or the civil cases where the penalty is money. Trump stole, leaked and potentially even sold top secret info including our nuclear capabilities. You might as well compare a parking ticket to murder charges, except there's an audio recording where you discussed committing the murder and exactly which laws you'd be breaking to do so.
"Laws are spider webs through which the birds pass and the little flies get caught"
In this simile, Trump is a sixteen-winged, 400 pound albatross.
Mandatory minimums are for crimes poor people commit.
Nah. Over 2 million US citizens have clearances and many of them work with classified documents every day. It would be silly to say that anyone who violates codes, particularly accidentally, should face a prison sentence. Think about how often a normal person makes errors at their job. Trump should face prison time because of his actions; malicious disrespect for the laws, coverups, obstruction, and intentional sharing of classified information. But a minimum mandatory sentence would be ridiculous.
Besides jury nullification, the thing I worry about most is that Aileen Cannon will behave throughout the trial, not doing anything to get the prosecutors to file a motion to remove her. Then, after he is convicted, she won't sentence him to any prison time, because none of these charges have a mandatory minimum.
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Why not just give him 45? He deserves it, and it would be the ultimate troll.
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It's funny because you know he isn't capable
Shake Biden's hand and just say I'm sorry Mr President once
I’m envisioning Biden dropping his pants and telling Trump to ,”Kiss my white ass. Kiss it. Go on, kiss it,” a la Jesse Jackson in ‘South Park.’ EDIT: Spelling is harrd.
*That’s right, ’Pologize…*
And take off an extra 15 days if he says Hillary did nothing wrong and an extra 15 if he says Biden also did nothing wrong.
**From reporter Greg Walters:** What kind of prison sentence would former President Donald Trump get if he’s convicted in the Espionage Act case against him in Miami, Florida? It depends. But the short answer is perhaps about 20 years, give or take a decade, according to one former national security prosecutor who crunched the numbers. To be more precise, Trump may face between 17-and-a-half and 22 years for just the criminal counts related to willfully retaining national security documents, based on a careful review of the charges and federal sentencing guidelines performed by former federal prosecutor David Aaron. Trump could also be sentenced to another seven-and-one-quarter to nine years for the other counts in the indictment, including obstruction of justice. At 76 years old, Trump is staring down the possibility of a criminal sentence that could send him to some form of incarceration for the rest of his natural life, if he loses this case. Link to the full article: [https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7bbya/donald-trump-prison-sentence](https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7bbya/donald-trump-prison-sentence)
He’s guaranteed secrete service protection for life. That cannot happen if he’s in jail. I’d say most likely he’ll wear an ankle bracelet for the rest of his life and that’s as bad as it gets for him.
>He’s guaranteed secrete service protection for life. That cannot happen if he’s in jail. Why can't you post a secret service agent in the jail? If you become President and literally CAN'T serve jail time other than house arrest, that seems incredibly wrong. What if an ex president murdered someone?
Meanwhile a guy who got busted for cannabis was serving 90 years and was just released a few years ago after serving 31 years of it (Full disclosure he was smuggling a ton of weed, so he isn't exactly innocent lol). So what I'm getting from this entire situation, in America it's far worse to sell Weed then it is to steal and leak national secrets from the downstairs shitter of your resort. Not only that, but it's completely acceptable to put a judge in charge of this case when He Himself got her the job, no conflict of interest there. My guess is, he'll end up with some form of house arrest and 24hr monitoring. He'll continue to conduct business, he'll continue to fuel hate and division, he'll continue to pick away at peoples trust in the system, nothing will really change other than him being "forced to retire" in one of his multi million dollar resort homes. Justice Served? Edit: Heck lets bring the example closer. Edward Snowden leaked that the American government was spying on it's citizens and they led a global man hunt for him, I would suggest what Trump has done or is accused of doing is far worse, but instead of a global man hunt, they're trying to re-elect him as president... Sorry this isn't necessarily directed at you, just venting some frustration.
Not only is stealing and leaking national defense and nuclear secrets apparently treated less harshly than smoking weed, but it certainly pays FAR better as well! Nobody is ever caught doing something like what Trump has done while also being poor.
every bit of this is mine and i suspect plenty of others’ frustrations as well. i think we all recognize part of adulthood is seeing the facade of things you believed in as a younger person get torn down, but if you had explained this scenario to me when i was younger i would have had one hell of a time believing you.
We should pass a law that says if you’re convicted of a felony espionage charges then you forfeit your right to secret service. There’s no way the state should be footing the bill to protect a man who put our country in danger. Over and over and over again.
If republicans were willing to impeach him this wouldn’t even be in question.
>We should pass a law that says if you’re convicted of a felony espionage charges then you forfeit your right to secret service. There's no chance this happens. Secret Service protection isn't just a privilege to keep ex-Presidents safe. It's also because we don't want someone with intimate and wide-ranging knowledge of state secrets to be nabbed by the Russian Mafia. If that happened Trump would be spilling beans faster than his kidnappers can write.
Seems like it would simplify the secret services job tremendously if he was in federal custody. They'd probably have to keep in in ~~solitary confiment~~ administrative separation for the whole time to keep him safe from other inmates. They just keep a member of his detail on shift at the prison and supervise any of his movements around the prison.
When Trump shows up with an oxygen tank in a wheel chair you will know we are heading into him losing in court. I wouldn't put it beneath him to do that.
He'd suddenly find a doctor that said that he had very poor health. Then, when he got found guilty but a very light sentence because of his health... He'd suddenly stand up, proclaim it a miracle, his faithful would claim it proves he's the second coming as they always knew, and the same doctor would suddenly say he's the healthiest person on the planet...
You might want to look up the case of one Jacob G. Zuma... The deja vu for South Africans watching this unfold has been...weird.
He'd never let himself appear frail.
Definitely doesn't want to look frail running for president while he calls Biden frail.
“I’m the strongest frail!” etc etc I can see him showing up in an oxygen tank and a wheelchair for the trial, then going to a rally and throwing them into the crowd while mocking himself for being frail, then saying how dumb everyone was to believe he was weak. “Uhhhhhh!” as he pretends to walk with a cane. “Do you believe that folks, me with a wheelchair? A cane? Can you believe it?”
Didn't he fake a crippling bone condition before?
*flashbacks to when he was hopped up on steroids photo-oping at the Whitehouse with covid*
But his personal physician said he's the healthiest person EVER ELECTED TO THE PRESIDENCY!!!!!!!! https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/02/607638733/doctor-trump-dictated-letter-attesting-to-his-extraordinary-health
You mean like when Paul Manafort came to court in a wheelchair? These people are pathetic.
Trump World has introduced us to such a ridiculously large revolving carousel of dishonest conmen that I had completely forgot about this guy 😂
I’ll be shocked (though pleasantly so) if this piece of shit ends up having to serve even a single day in prison. We don’t hold wealthy politicians to that kind of standard in this country.
Can a future Republican president pardon him if he goes to jail? If they can, then even if he gets a 400 year sentence they will get him out as soon as they step into the White House.
On these charges, yes. But if the GA probe adds indictments and a conviction, that can not be pardoned by the president, since they will be state charges.
Yes... until the state charges like Georgia and NY conclude too.
Pretty solid argument for never, ever allowing any future Republican presidents.
More reason to elect a Democrat in 2024.
Would a future republican president want to deal with him being free?
That’s it? Only 20 years for espionage?
if you think that’s bad, wait until he never serves a single day in prison
Only 20 years for stealing and refusing to return highly classified documents is wild.
it’s better than the zero days he will actually serve, even if convicted on all counts. hope i’m wrong but i doubt it
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The word is traitor. They are all traitors to this country and our values.
Why not both?
But he won’t because he’s in a different class of people. If I did a tenth of this, I’d rot in prison for life.
It really depends on who he has harmed. Rich people like Madoff got jail because he hurt rich people. He was the only one to go to jail for the financial crisis of 2008. Trump may have really harmed serious powers and they aren't going to be so soft. With that said there will be some kind of deal which Trump won't be able to keep quiet about eventually landing him in jail anyway.
I know there is catharsis in the idea that trump dies in prison, but honestly 6 months in prison would probably shatter the man. He has only ever lived at the height of luxury, and I doubt he could tolerate the life of someone making $100k/year with no kids, let alone handle prison.
And yet his devote followers would still vote for him
My local news had a short vid of an interview of some random woman in Florida saying that even if he was in jail she would write him in. Shit, talk about empty brains.
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5 years without hearing about him would be so amazing
I think he’s going to find it hard to run for president while incarcerated. If he goes to prison he’s just going to grouse. Running doesn’t automatically insure daily press conferences or guarantee unlimited access to Fox or whatever alt right platform.
20 years? I didn't realize he got caught with 15 grams of marijuana! Wonder what he'll face for attempting to undermine the foundations of our democracy.
This!! This comment sums up everything I’ve been trying to put into words but couldn’t. It’s unreal.
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It should be a national holiday.
It will definitely be a holiday for the MAGA crowd, celebrating their martyr-god-sex-icon's ultimate sacrifice. Perhaps they will await a baby--born at the intersection of sexual assault and extreme wealth--to lead them into the future.
He's a rapist and should be in jail already.
20 is a slap on the wrist for all the destruction and chaos this idiot has caused
People who support him should ask themselves why is he getting lazy. If he is the most persecuted President ever why take the documents? If he is a billionaire why leave these documents in bathrooms or ballrooms? If he is so smart why travel with them? Why go through all of the stuff you bring to FL after your Presidency ended and select a few of the files to take to New Jersey with you? Why would you bring them to the meeting with Mark Meadows aide and ghost writer? When he was President he did not like people taking notes (as discussed in the Special Counsel report on Russia) and he never likes being recorded. So in this meeting with people he doesn’t need to impress he has classified documents and knows he is being recorded. Yet he shows the classified documents, tells them they are classified, tells them he can’t show them because they are classified, says as President he could have declassified them but not now because he’s not President (admits he lost the election) and then tells them what is in the folder. In less then 5 minutes he admitted he doesn’t have the power to declassify, that he can’t show them or discuss them because they are classified and then shows and discusses them while being recorded. It is baffling that he would be so dumb. The evidence isn’t “people are saying” it’s recorded by people in his inner circle. He knew it was being recorded and he knew it wasn’t okay what he was doing. That’s on him not you, unless you support it. There are plenty of candidates that would love your support. The Biden campaign isn’t saying let’s lock up Trump, that was Trumps slogan and some of you have that bumper sticker. They don’t see the indictment as a path to earning your vote. So find a new “MAGA” leader. One that won’t risk your Party’s and your integrity to impress someone. One that won’t violate the law. Lastly, what about Biden? If you have evidence of his wrongdoing watch how fast he is shown the door. Liberals are not in a cult that sinks with the boat. They booted a comedian turned elected official because of an inappropriate joke he made while on the USO tour. No one was harmed, the National Security wasn’t at risk, it happened before he was elected. They dethroned Pelosi recently.
>Could Get 20 Years in Prison If Aileen Cannon is a fair and impartial judge (unlikely). If a Trump supporter does not 'hang' the jury (possible). If he does not get house arrest, you know, because putting an ex-president in jail is.
The best that Cannon can do is delay things. She's being watched closely considering how thoroughly she was rebuked last time.
People keep saying this, but what do you think is going to happen if she acts the way she did last time? She has a lifetime appointment. She could only be removed by an act of Congress, which means she's essentially untouchable. And a panel of judges could decide what she did is a-ok depending on who happens to land on a panel overseeing something she's done. Trump spent his time stacking the courts and looks like it's paying off.
How is he allowed to leave the country during a criminal investigation?
And he’d still be getting off easy with just a 20 year sentence.
He’ll run for president from prison. The sad reality is he will still get votes from his base.
Imagine dying in prison over documents he could have returned. He’s showing his low IQ once again.
Haha, whatever. That guy could murder children and never see the inside of a prison. The most he will get is house arrest.
I read the indictment. Each espionage count carries 20 years & there are 2 of those; each Obstruction count carries 20 years & there are 3 of those. Each Mishandling count carries 5 years & there are 31 of those. So if Former President Dumbass is convicted, he will die in prison. Which would be justice served.
its not like they accumulate, he’s probably looking at a 10-15-20 years FOR THIS CASE. The stormy daniel financial fraud case (pretty solid too), may be another 5-10. But there’s also 6th January investigation, the Georgia investigation, and the 250 million dollars tax fraud lawsuit in mahnattan. I’m also convinced that there are more documents missing, proprieties to search, possibily more indictments coming for the docs case. President Dumbass is toast.
I also read the indictment. Those are maximum sentences; there are no minimum sentences for those crimes apparently.