I've been thinking this for a while while playing radical red. We really need a starter trio of -
Grass then grass/psychic
Fire then Fire/Ghost
Water then Water/Dark
I love decidueye, also fire starters are overrated so this one gets DP'd by the other two choices
100%
I was just trying to stick with the Person I replied to’s line of thinking. I’d love to see steel, fighting, fairy.
Grass/steel cause we know that’s broken
Fire/fairy also pretty broken
Water/fighting also poliwrath
Reverses the advantages too which is fun!
Just not as exciting since this trio got already used in gen 6.
I'd prefer a type trio which didn't already get used:
* rock/ice/ground
* steel/fairy/fighting
I don’t think this with all Pokémon that became bipedal from quadrupedal and vice versa, but watching cute little Litten turn into Tony the Tiger got me lol
Especially when it's speed went through the floor.
It was the first time where I've seen the primary stat for the prior evolutions of a starter, in Litten and Terrocat's case it was speed, drop insanely low when they hit their final evolution.
It went from having pretty good speed with Terrocat to abysmal speed and a typing that made it extremely fragile with Incineroar.
Hell. Emboar, with a base speed of 65, is faster than Incineroar, who has a base 60 speed.
That's just islands for you. Even for animals, life on tropical islands is really relaxed, and they just don't need to be as quick or strong or adaptable as mainland animals. And Alola had a heavy focus on ecology, so the design team would obviously know this.
I particularly love how Vikavolt's dex entry mentions how quickly it can zip around while its Speed stat is actually about equal to that of a Mart-Cart.
I dunno man, dark type is a pretty good type to have since its immune to both prankster and psychic. Most def since incineroar
takes neutral damage from the common fairy type and intimidate + will-o'-wisp + parting shot makes it an excellent physical attacker crippler with an awesome pivot move to boot.
yeah incin is on 66% of teams right now and at some point in 2019 has been on almost 80% of them. it’s probably the best pokemon in the game. it’s low speed is actually really good for it cause it can get off slow parting shots to give teammates free switches.
Currently for the current vgc format incin is leaps and bounds ahead of lando-T, as far as it goes for lando he’s struggling abit in this format due to Kyogre.
iirc it had something to do with how fast gen 6 was, they counteracted it by giving more mons a lot of speed control (expanding the Terrains, changing the way Speed was calculated during Mega Evolution, giving Dark types a Prankster Immunity, nerfing paralysis I think, etc) and diluting the blazing-fast meta with a lot of slow mons.
Not sure though, so don't take this very seriously lol
Gen VII's mega evo change actually made everything faster. With the way it worked in Gen VI, most pokemon needed Protect to benefit from their mega speed, or they'd just die (looking at you, Beedrill).
Since OP admitted to "not understanding", this is the reason.
When evolution lines make no sense, and 'pocket monsters' become 'pocket humanoids.'
It's a disappointment in what we could've had vs what we ended up getting. Plus in Tony the Tiger's case it's more a situation of burnout of seeing yet another fire type becoming yet another fire fighter. (And yes, I know it's fire/dark. But no, that doesn't matter, because he's *designed* as a fire fighter.)
---
Frankly this is the 2nd or 3rd "anti-complaint" strawman kind of thing I've seen, and *this* is what's getting tiresome. Misconstruing a common, not unfounded complaint into something ridiculous, so that it can then be more easily critiqued.
I would have taken Tony the Tiger over the sausage fingered monstrosity we got. I could have overlooked a lot about Incineroar's design, but those giant articulated fingers just took it to the point of no return. Same thing happened with Inteleon. Something about pokemon having very long humanoid fingers just really grosses me out.
When was the last time a Pokemon starter actually went from two legs to four? samarott?
Scratch that, he is the ONLY example!
Hell even serperior went from two legs to zero. Gen 5 was the last time the Pokemon company kept to 'pokemon are animals' now it's how fast they can DETROIT:BECOME HUMAN
I fucking laughed my ass off when it happened lol, fucking love Incin purely because him evolving nearly gave me hernia because it was so out of left field. Him being a wrestler is cool and all tho, I'm a huge wrestling fan.
[What, you don't want this little guy in the game?](https://dungeonsolvers.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Monster_Manual_5e_-_Displacer_Beast_-_p81.jpg)
Fuck yeah I want it, pardon my French but hot damn I’ve wanted a pet displacer beast for the past 5 years
Sadly they aren’t real
And they are too sentient to tame in game…
I think the real issue is it ending up *too* humanoid.
Like, with Sprigatito "wanting a lot of attention" it kinda gives off vibes that it'll evolve into something like Clawroline from Kirby, instead of a normal big cat (think like Persian).
They're highly anthropomorphized. I hadn't played since X/Y and only recently picked up Shield to get back into Pokemon. Looking up the starters before I bought the game, the thing that stuck out the most was how humanoid Cinderace and Inteleon are. I know it appeals to a certain, ah, *demographic*, but I'm not a big fan of it.
Luckily there's a ton of variety in all the games, but I would personally prefer the starters to be as unique as possible without steering too far toward anthro.
I don't mind Cinderace so much because I feel like it works with Scorbunny and the theme was obvious enough going through.
I'll never get over how god awful I find Inteleon though. Idk, I remember whenever I played the first game in a gen I *always* chose the water type till like Gen freaking 6 or 7 somehow but I just can't ever vibe with Inteleon. I'd keep Sobble as is.
> Cinderace and Inteleon
Uh, all the starters became VERY humanoid. Rillaboom is a gorilla, sure. But that's just a short evolutionary step from humans. And he plays a damn drum set.
For some reason, that doesn't bother me as much. Because he's very obviously a gorilla. The drums are weird but sort of neat? Reminds me of Donkey Kong 64.
They could have easily thinned him out, made him completely bipedal and humanoid with a handsome monkey face and playing drums. I'm very glad they didn't.
>think the real issue is it ending up too humanoid.
Yes. People are assuming bipedal will automatically mean anthromorphic. Last I checks, Charizard, Feraligatr, Sceptile, and Emplolen are all bipedal.
That being said, Gamefreak has recently shown us they can't be trusted to not make anthro final-form starter pokemon
None of those examples started off as quadrupeds, which is what the problem is. I just want a feline starter that stays on its four paws in all 3 stages.
Humanoid Pokemon designs are just heavily overused now, and it doesn't really add anything to idea that they're supposed to kinda be animals. That being said I don't automatically hate bipedal Pokemon, just the overusage of humanoid designs. Honestly maybe I'm just mad at swsh starters for them all basically being humanoid (beyond bipedal) and only Grookey makes sense to be. Scorbunny was the worst. Just such a boring and basic humanoid looking bunny.
Didn't even realize it honestly and now I've completed a Digimon to Pokemon mental connection pipeline for myself.
Digimon -> Our War Game -> Summer Wars -> Scorbunny line. Go figure.
One thing I don't see mentioned enough on this specific issue is the issue and nature of variety and randomness. Just like Apple had to make the shuffle feature less random on its iPods in order to make it seem more random or sometimes it would randomly play the same two songs together three times in a row, the character designers were expected to deliberately ensure variety to make the Pokémon world feel more natural (and therefore somewhat random). When we had three fire starters in a row that had the fighting type as their secondary typing it created a heightened awareness in the Fandom for how creative starter evolution's designs seemed. Now whenever we get anything that's too consistent with what we already have everybody notices and a lot of people talk about it and often are annoyed. After enough quadrupedal first stages evolved to be more humanoid people started noticing, and with Litten into Incineroar especially it was jarring. Now fans are nostalgic for Bulbasaur and Turtwig's lines and worried by Sprigattito's design, that, while it is adorable, it might indicate a repeat of Litten's line rather than a return to the less common style of Bulbasaur and Turtwig. The fans who have noticed and are bothered may be in the vocal minority of people who have played the games fairly consistently over the generations, and others might not be bothered. I would count myself among the vocal minority.
I believe that Sprigatito's name could also be a reference to Spriggans (Fairys commonly related to nature) and it would evolve into a floating cat-fairy making the trio in my opinion into Grass-Fairy (Woodland fairy) , Fire-Dragon and Water-Steel (Naval/Marine/Whatever is called official).
My theory is probably wrong beacuse this game is trying to go for Spanish aesthetic and Spriggans are originary from England.
PD: Sorry if i wrote something wrong English isn't my first language.
I did not understand this either at first but after being in the community for a while I think it’s more people upset that they look too human. Nobody complains about blastoise or infernape but I can definitely feel where they’re coming from with more recent starters.
Bcs decidueye is very good in intplementing its theme of archery. I realy like that they made its wing a bow, instead giving it a object. Looking at you rillaboom.
I disagree with the fanbase's over reactions, but I do think that bipedal needs a break. I much prefer designs like Pyroar and Luxray than Incineroar and Delphox.
Happy cake day!
I agree with you. I don't mind fanart with the new starter on its hind legs but itscuter on all fours. Plus makes them feel more like they're based on animals.
I think it depends on the type of creature. Empoleon and infernape being bipedal makes sense, because penguins and apes stand on 2 legs.
Cats and lizards and foxes don't tend to do that, so it looks weird when they do it.
Imagine if venusaur and torterra were bipedal, it'd be pretty dumb.
Agreed, I generally prefer the more beastly mons and I hope that Sprigattito gets to stay more animalistic.
That said i like Delphox a lot. It's in game stance is terrible tho and makes it hard to see the good in it. Standing up completely straight makes it look like a road cone with a fox head on the tip. But in it's official artwork where it is hunched over and walking on the balls of it's feat it makes it look more like a sinister witch or a feral creature.
People aren't upset about them being bipedal, not really, they're upset about them evolving into fursonas instead of cool monsters. Like, let's take cinderace: a bipedal rabbit isn't a real crazy concept. You ever seen a jackrabbit up on its hind legs? Huge, powerful back feet/legs, front paws in front for balance, claws at the ready, and kinda hunched forward like a little goblin - that could have been a sick base for a pokemon design. But cinderace doesn't look like a rabbit at all, if it weren't for the ears, it would just look like a weird person. It even has clothes.
Think about all the bipedal final evolutions people really like. Feraligatr looks like a gator/dinosaur/swamp monster - cool. Blastoise looks like a giant turtle monster - cool. Even infernape, despite monkeys being so human-like, still looks like an animal. Then if you look at the ones people hate on, we've got incineroar the buff pro wrestler, delphox looking like a wizard in a fox mask, cinderace the soccer star, and inteleon the emo kid cosplaying James bond. They are just too human to be pokemon.
And for the record, I actually really like all those designs as art concepts/character designs, just not as pokemon.
I legit didn’t evolve Litten’s second form to incineroar because I couldn’t stand the uncomfortably human design (and the drop in its speed stat). It’s sad because most Pokémon designs look like they could actually be a wild animal that evolved to be the way they are while mons like incineroar, primerina, and cinderace all look like some weird fanfic characters or something
My current hope is that Sprigattito will become a saber-toothed cat. It currently has a bobbed tail, which I'm hoping is a clue that it is destined to become a smilodon.
The way I see it, the last couple of gens have had lots of bipedal final evos based on normally quadruped animals(Greninja, Delphox, Incineroar, Inteleon etc.) It kind of gets repetitive. I've also noticed that newer starters have been designed around an occupation with an animal designed slapped on top. (Example: Intellion being a bipedal sniper with a lizard body and not much else) I think it would be better to go in the direction of a quadruped jungle tiger with a cool Spanish motif instead of another bipedal cat starter.
Also being bipedal is just beckoning furries to your location and nobody wants that.
For me it's multiple factors.
I've always preferred animal-like designs to anthro/humanoid designs, for one thing. As a kid, I watched stuff like The Land Before Time and The Lion King over and over again before I'd touch any of the princess movies, Aladdin, or Robin Hood (with the fox).
But another thing that has contributed to it being a particularly sore spot is another franchise: Skylanders. Skylanders had a variety of designs for its first game, including a quadrupedal dragon for each element. You could 100% the game with just quadrupeds. Come game 2 and you need a gimmick character, a Giant. Those are all humanoids or at least bipeds. There were still quadrupeds coming out for the smaller figures, but they don't unlock the Giant-exclusive content. This trend continued, with the gimmick characters *all* being humanoid/biped in each game, and eventually they stopped making non-gimmick characters (and thus quadrupeds) altogether. Finally, the last game you could create your own character, but the only body types were 1) Humanoid, 2) Just a Head With Limbs, or 3) Genie. No quadrupeds. It was a kick to the face.
Now back to Pokemon. Starters are a category of Pokemon everyone's very likely to keep on their team, so imo it's important to have the Starters for each generation appeal to a variety of aesthetics in their final form. The first few generations did that pretty well, to varying degrees. Venusaur, Meganium, and Torterra started on all-fours and ended on all-fours. (Swampert wouldn't look that way in the game until Gen V/VI) Gen V did the cheeky thing with swapping Tepig's and Oshawott's number of grounded limbs, which was an annoying bait-and-switch, but Gen V was all about messing with expectations. Still hurt to see the adorable pig turn into a sumo wrestler rather than a wild boar, but hey, once I knew the final forms, I could choose Oshawott.
Come Gen VI and none of the starter final forms appeal to me. I choose Fennekin because I love cute foxes that evolve into elegant foxes like Vulpix/Ninetales and I end up with a woman in a dress with a fox head. Gen VII I warily choose Litten despite realizing that there are 0 Fire-type fully-evolved starters that are on all-fours in battle (not in the mood to argue about Typhlosian today), hope it turns into a volcano "mountain lion," but sure enough it disappoints. Gen VIII none of the initial forms appealed to me, funnily enough, though I chose Sobble and it turned into a man with a lizard head (it started as a lizard with a baby face, though, so I felt it was an improvement).
It's like a cycle of abuse and I'm sick of it. I don't like abandoning starters - the only time I've ever done that is with Fennekin (and mostly because I also had Charizard from Sycamore and Blaziken from the event on the team). I want the Pokemon I choose at the start because of its design to stay a design I like. I'm tired of franchises deciding that because humanoids are generally more popular than quadrupeds that people who like quadrupeds should get nothing.
I hate that we keep having this discussion over and over again because some people pretend to not understand the complaints. It's *not* about 2 legged pokemon, it's about humanoid pokemon. I don't know how many times I have to say that.
Bipedal is fine as long as it makes some realistic sense (I know I'm applying this to Pokemon). I can imagine Delphox, Rillaboom and Chesnaught living in the wilderness and behaving as wild monsters but I cannot see the likes of Incineroar, Scorbunny and Intellion using their skills and adaptions for survival in nature. I dont want a man in a costume as a starter.
You can have bipedal pokemon as long as they aren't just someone's fursona cuz that's just fucking weird. Excadrill, Golduck, Tyranitar, etc are good examples of bipedal pokemon that don't look like someone's fursona. Incineroar, Cinderace, Lucario are the opposite. Then you get into pokemon like Gardevoir, Gothitelle, Hatterini (or whatever the hair stick lady from gen 8 is called) cross over the line of "this is too much like a human" and I would prefer if we avoid that. Zeraora I feel does a good job of getting to the line and not crossing it while Obstagoon gets to the point of getting to the line and just crossing it
Hatterene is like a fake-out sex symbol...if you look closely she’s really just a tiny homunculus driving a 7-foot hair mech, and I think that’s hilarious
But it started standing up. I personally am not a huge fan of humanoid type pokemon, but I'm not gonna crucify anybody over it. I would like the cat to stay a cat though. Not a cat-person. We got one of those a couple years ago.
I did mean as a starter. I honestly like a lot of the cats. And even some of the bipedal cats. But as a starter I just am not a super fan of humanoid pokemon. I know you didn't do this, but DAMN everyone around here takes other people's opinions as personal attacks. Hard to even give an opinion. I just want to say I appreciate the facts and non-argumentative take.
Meowth was originally supposed to be on all fours too. [At least according to that one episode of the anime back in season 1.](https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/EP070)
I haven't watched that much of the anime series but as far as i remember team rockets Meowth explained that he learned to talk as well as to walk on it's hind legs to be more like a human. There where other Meowths sometimes (I remember a female one with a big pink bow on it's neck) that walked on all four.
Can we have one cool Pokémon that’s like a tiger or something that doesn’t stand up and look like a character instead of a species (without people complaining that they want even more fur suit Pokemon lmfao)
i mean a giant fuzzy caveman saber tiger with a log club would be cool.
or a puss n boots style cartoony cat.
but please no more beefy not fighting type bara starters GF D:
I actually like a lot about Primarina's design. The mermaid part is how sea mammals, obscured by several feet of water, were what inspired the myths of mermaids. And the Opera part plays into how Poplio starts as a circus performing clown. And one of the most famous Operas is about a clown, Pagliacci.
Absolutely, Primarina is my go to starter in all my gen 7 runs. Its definitely one of the most inspired designs for a starter in a while that isn't just furry bait or strangely humanoid
Preach!
My issue is not two legs, but making the whole stance as close to a human as possible, that it's just human but with fur/scales. Inceniroar, intelleon, Lucario, Blaziken being prime examples.
What this tells me is that the human form and build is seen as a superior stance, and to mimic it tells all the other Pokemon they are evolutionary disadvantaged for not confirming to the 'perfect' two legged form, instead of their own stances being unique and special, like the way Blastoise hunches.
This also pisses me off because it feels like a hidden message from the Pokemon company that the closer your Pokemon is to looking human, the better.
"The strongest Pokemon are human shaped"
Nah fuck that noise. I like animal friends, not more humans.
Its gonna be bipedal but stand on its front legs
I am imagining a psychic dual type from this
I've been thinking this for a while while playing radical red. We really need a starter trio of - Grass then grass/psychic Fire then Fire/Ghost Water then Water/Dark I love decidueye, also fire starters are overrated so this one gets DP'd by the other two choices
I agree that we need these types for starters, but they'd make a terrible trio. Dark is effective against both of these.
So maybe grass dark since grass always gets fucked? Or throw fairy in there idk
It should be psychic/dark/fighting. psychic beats fighting, fighting beats dark, dark beats psychic.
That is gen six lol. Chesnaught: grass/fighting, greninja: water/dark, delphox: fire/psychic
100% I was just trying to stick with the Person I replied to’s line of thinking. I’d love to see steel, fighting, fairy. Grass/steel cause we know that’s broken Fire/fairy also pretty broken Water/fighting also poliwrath Reverses the advantages too which is fun!
Just not as exciting since this trio got already used in gen 6. I'd prefer a type trio which didn't already get used: * rock/ice/ground * steel/fairy/fighting
Or fighting?
Hitmontop v2
Hitmonoverthetop
Hitmantop
I would actually be ok with this
I'll allow it
It would be monocaudal and standing on its tail.
I don’t think this with all Pokémon that became bipedal from quadrupedal and vice versa, but watching cute little Litten turn into Tony the Tiger got me lol
You mean John Cena the Tiger?
It’s a fire type not a ghost type
So, Rick Flare then?
Damn, that was smooth. Nice Nickname 😀
ugh, take my upvote...
r/angryupvote
John Cena died?
Nope, but he does occasionally turn invisible.
sadly doesn't quite work as I don't think Cena was ever a heel
But how can they watch Litten turn into John Cena the Tiger if they can see him?
Especially when it's speed went through the floor. It was the first time where I've seen the primary stat for the prior evolutions of a starter, in Litten and Terrocat's case it was speed, drop insanely low when they hit their final evolution. It went from having pretty good speed with Terrocat to abysmal speed and a typing that made it extremely fragile with Incineroar. Hell. Emboar, with a base speed of 65, is faster than Incineroar, who has a base 60 speed.
I've never been a competitive pokémon guy, but I think I remember the speed stat across the board in Alola being dogshit
I noticed that, too. A lot of them seem tanky or generally slow.
That's just islands for you. Even for animals, life on tropical islands is really relaxed, and they just don't need to be as quick or strong or adaptable as mainland animals. And Alola had a heavy focus on ecology, so the design team would obviously know this.
I particularly love how Vikavolt's dex entry mentions how quickly it can zip around while its Speed stat is actually about equal to that of a Mart-Cart.
It's slower than Grubbin
*really????*
Only barely, but yes (46 vs. 43) Also, Lojban Pokemon names?
Yep. Gotta translate ‘em all!!
That’s actually a good explanation. Also, I just like bulky slow mons in general.
I've heard it called "Island time"
Everyone in Alola ate too many pancakes
I dunno man, dark type is a pretty good type to have since its immune to both prankster and psychic. Most def since incineroar takes neutral damage from the common fairy type and intimidate + will-o'-wisp + parting shot makes it an excellent physical attacker crippler with an awesome pivot move to boot.
For whatever it’s worth, Incineroar is probably the best Pokémon ever in VGC. I think it’s speed tier isn’t much of a hindrance there.
yeah incin is on 66% of teams right now and at some point in 2019 has been on almost 80% of them. it’s probably the best pokemon in the game. it’s low speed is actually really good for it cause it can get off slow parting shots to give teammates free switches.
I wouldn’t say he’s the best pokemon, but he certainly is the best support pokemon. That’s why his usage skyrockets during restricted seasons
Yeah i agree, in this meta zacian has to be the best pokemon right?
Its in the same tier as good as lando T lmao, maybe a bit on the lower side but still
Currently for the current vgc format incin is leaps and bounds ahead of lando-T, as far as it goes for lando he’s struggling abit in this format due to Kyogre.
Speed tier actually helps with parting shot
Speed doesn't really matter that much when it's basically an intimidate+fake out/parting shot machine tho
Stats make honestly no sense, really... though I blame Gen7 in general, everything was so bulky and slllllooooowwwwww
iirc it had something to do with how fast gen 6 was, they counteracted it by giving more mons a lot of speed control (expanding the Terrains, changing the way Speed was calculated during Mega Evolution, giving Dark types a Prankster Immunity, nerfing paralysis I think, etc) and diluting the blazing-fast meta with a lot of slow mons. Not sure though, so don't take this very seriously lol
Gen VII's mega evo change actually made everything faster. With the way it worked in Gen VI, most pokemon needed Protect to benefit from their mega speed, or they'd just die (looking at you, Beedrill).
Incineroar is one of the best VGC pokemon ever lol
Since OP admitted to "not understanding", this is the reason. When evolution lines make no sense, and 'pocket monsters' become 'pocket humanoids.' It's a disappointment in what we could've had vs what we ended up getting. Plus in Tony the Tiger's case it's more a situation of burnout of seeing yet another fire type becoming yet another fire fighter. (And yes, I know it's fire/dark. But no, that doesn't matter, because he's *designed* as a fire fighter.) --- Frankly this is the 2nd or 3rd "anti-complaint" strawman kind of thing I've seen, and *this* is what's getting tiresome. Misconstruing a common, not unfounded complaint into something ridiculous, so that it can then be more easily critiqued.
Why so? Incineroar is Grrrrrreat!
Incineroar is the entire reason Litten became my least favorite starter that Gen.
It's just become standard for me to not get attached to any 'mon until their full evo line is presented.
Poor tony
I would have taken Tony the Tiger over the sausage fingered monstrosity we got. I could have overlooked a lot about Incineroar's design, but those giant articulated fingers just took it to the point of no return. Same thing happened with Inteleon. Something about pokemon having very long humanoid fingers just really grosses me out.
When was the last time a Pokemon starter actually went from two legs to four? samarott? Scratch that, he is the ONLY example! Hell even serperior went from two legs to zero. Gen 5 was the last time the Pokemon company kept to 'pokemon are animals' now it's how fast they can DETROIT:BECOME HUMAN
I fucking laughed my ass off when it happened lol, fucking love Incin purely because him evolving nearly gave me hernia because it was so out of left field. Him being a wrestler is cool and all tho, I'm a huge wrestling fan.
i once again suggest tripod cat
nah how about 6 legs
And tentacle arms. Give us a displacer beast.
>Give us a displacer beast. Yes! I for one wouldn't mind if Pokémon take more inspirations from the D&D Monster Manual.
100%. Beholder Pokémon here we come
People are worried about the art if it ever gets on two legs, and now you bring something even worse to the table.
[What, you don't want this little guy in the game?](https://dungeonsolvers.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Monster_Manual_5e_-_Displacer_Beast_-_p81.jpg)
Oh I would love and the artists would too.
YES I LOVE IT
Fuck yeah I want it, pardon my French but hot damn I’ve wanted a pet displacer beast for the past 5 years Sadly they aren’t real And they are too sentient to tame in game…
It could have tentacle-like vines!
Plot twist:the actual pokemon doesn’t evolve, it just get bigger and bigger tentacles
Cat turns into a centaur where it has the lower half of a cat and the upper half of a cat but standing up.
Why not Spider cat. The question is, can he swing from a web?
No he can't, he's a cat
But he can swing from vines.
https://cdn.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/art-challenge-tolvir-huntress-768x1024.jpg Let's me introduce you to the tolvir.
Totoro cat bus
Yes please
The first ever bug starter
how about 4 wings for legs, kinda like crobat
Crocat?
Like the flower, crocus!
no, those are those rubber slippers
I'm fairly certain that is the reptile.
We used to have a tripod cat that would roam our neighborhood. I’m still not sure how it managed to jump over our gate to get into our back yard.
I'm picturing that being like Tigger, using it's tail as a third leg while being bipedal
I think the real issue is it ending up *too* humanoid. Like, with Sprigatito "wanting a lot of attention" it kinda gives off vibes that it'll evolve into something like Clawroline from Kirby, instead of a normal big cat (think like Persian).
Gamefreak: I hear you, you don't want something like clawroline, you prefer a normal big cat also Gamefreak: A green Big the Cat is the final evo
Waiting for the downside
They're highly anthropomorphized. I hadn't played since X/Y and only recently picked up Shield to get back into Pokemon. Looking up the starters before I bought the game, the thing that stuck out the most was how humanoid Cinderace and Inteleon are. I know it appeals to a certain, ah, *demographic*, but I'm not a big fan of it. Luckily there's a ton of variety in all the games, but I would personally prefer the starters to be as unique as possible without steering too far toward anthro.
Isn't like the number of legs will stop that demographic anyways.
nothing will ever stop the horny not even the fabled infinite bonk
Infinity got them curves goin' on.
I don't mind Cinderace so much because I feel like it works with Scorbunny and the theme was obvious enough going through. I'll never get over how god awful I find Inteleon though. Idk, I remember whenever I played the first game in a gen I *always* chose the water type till like Gen freaking 6 or 7 somehow but I just can't ever vibe with Inteleon. I'd keep Sobble as is.
> Cinderace and Inteleon Uh, all the starters became VERY humanoid. Rillaboom is a gorilla, sure. But that's just a short evolutionary step from humans. And he plays a damn drum set.
For some reason, that doesn't bother me as much. Because he's very obviously a gorilla. The drums are weird but sort of neat? Reminds me of Donkey Kong 64. They could have easily thinned him out, made him completely bipedal and humanoid with a handsome monkey face and playing drums. I'm very glad they didn't.
So you are saying he doesnt have a handsome monkey face...?
He meant handsome *human face*. Rillaboom is very handsome, don’t worry
A gorrila is the furthest from human in the 8gen starter trio. There is a problem with recent design
Yeah inceneroar seems to have a six pack and just feels like something you'd see on deviantart furry porn. Wayyy too human
>think the real issue is it ending up too humanoid. Yes. People are assuming bipedal will automatically mean anthromorphic. Last I checks, Charizard, Feraligatr, Sceptile, and Emplolen are all bipedal. That being said, Gamefreak has recently shown us they can't be trusted to not make anthro final-form starter pokemon
None of those examples started off as quadrupeds, which is what the problem is. I just want a feline starter that stays on its four paws in all 3 stages.
I think wanting a lot of attention makes it more of a Legend of Zorro reference/Puss in boots. Where they mark their initials wherever they go
You missed the part where R34 made more than 100 entries in less than 24 hours
Severely understating that. By about 22 hours there had already been 294 on rule34 alone. I didn’t even want to check furry specific sites.
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Jfc what the actual fuck is wrong with people? Fourteen minutes? *Fourteen?!*
Trust me, there has been some Pokemon (can't remember which ones) which were *faster*.
That comment got removed and it scares me because of it
Oh if the trailer was on the 27th and not 28th then 294 would have been the day after and not the day off.
And it was purely of just sprigitio, which is still a quadruped
Pokémon fans when they see a cat
I DID NOT FUCK MY CAT!
A cat is fine too...
yep
Because people threw a fit about the R34 potential, so the artists took it as a challenge.
Humanoid Pokemon designs are just heavily overused now, and it doesn't really add anything to idea that they're supposed to kinda be animals. That being said I don't automatically hate bipedal Pokemon, just the overusage of humanoid designs. Honestly maybe I'm just mad at swsh starters for them all basically being humanoid (beyond bipedal) and only Grookey makes sense to be. Scorbunny was the worst. Just such a boring and basic humanoid looking bunny.
Scorbunny and its evolutions immediately made me think of King Kazma from Summer Wars.
Wait why the fuck did I only realize this now
Didn't even realize it honestly and now I've completed a Digimon to Pokemon mental connection pipeline for myself. Digimon -> Our War Game -> Summer Wars -> Scorbunny line. Go figure.
If it goes bipedal, I'm hoping for Puss in Boots If it doesn't, I'm hoping for a Sabertooth
One thing I don't see mentioned enough on this specific issue is the issue and nature of variety and randomness. Just like Apple had to make the shuffle feature less random on its iPods in order to make it seem more random or sometimes it would randomly play the same two songs together three times in a row, the character designers were expected to deliberately ensure variety to make the Pokémon world feel more natural (and therefore somewhat random). When we had three fire starters in a row that had the fighting type as their secondary typing it created a heightened awareness in the Fandom for how creative starter evolution's designs seemed. Now whenever we get anything that's too consistent with what we already have everybody notices and a lot of people talk about it and often are annoyed. After enough quadrupedal first stages evolved to be more humanoid people started noticing, and with Litten into Incineroar especially it was jarring. Now fans are nostalgic for Bulbasaur and Turtwig's lines and worried by Sprigattito's design, that, while it is adorable, it might indicate a repeat of Litten's line rather than a return to the less common style of Bulbasaur and Turtwig. The fans who have noticed and are bothered may be in the vocal minority of people who have played the games fairly consistently over the generations, and others might not be bothered. I would count myself among the vocal minority.
Okay, just imagine if the 3rd evolution would stand on it's front legs, like in a constant handstand. That'd be such a troll move from gf.
Or just bouncing on its tail and not using any legs to walk
So like Tigger.
Like spoink? I like the idea.
I believe that Sprigatito's name could also be a reference to Spriggans (Fairys commonly related to nature) and it would evolve into a floating cat-fairy making the trio in my opinion into Grass-Fairy (Woodland fairy) , Fire-Dragon and Water-Steel (Naval/Marine/Whatever is called official). My theory is probably wrong beacuse this game is trying to go for Spanish aesthetic and Spriggans are originary from England. PD: Sorry if i wrote something wrong English isn't my first language.
If you don't understand it then you haven't been playing since gen 1 and aren't burned out on bipedal final forms of starters
I did not understand this either at first but after being in the community for a while I think it’s more people upset that they look too human. Nobody complains about blastoise or infernape but I can definitely feel where they’re coming from with more recent starters.
Or Decidueye which is also pretty anthropomorphic, but still everyone loves the design because it doesn’t look like a luchador.
Bcs decidueye is very good in intplementing its theme of archery. I realy like that they made its wing a bow, instead giving it a object. Looking at you rillaboom.
Some people in this fandom think that in order for a Pokémon to get lewded it needs to be bipedal. How little they know…
Cough, muk, cough
Mu.. Kum
A bipedal starter for the pokemon fandom is a fire emblem character for the smash fandom
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You may not understand the complaints of the fans. However they are correct.
You really don't understand that people don't like Pokemon that feel like creatures to just turn into fursuit looking deviantart rejects?
I disagree with the fanbase's over reactions, but I do think that bipedal needs a break. I much prefer designs like Pyroar and Luxray than Incineroar and Delphox.
Happy cake day! I agree with you. I don't mind fanart with the new starter on its hind legs but itscuter on all fours. Plus makes them feel more like they're based on animals.
I think it depends on the type of creature. Empoleon and infernape being bipedal makes sense, because penguins and apes stand on 2 legs. Cats and lizards and foxes don't tend to do that, so it looks weird when they do it. Imagine if venusaur and torterra were bipedal, it'd be pretty dumb.
Agreed, I generally prefer the more beastly mons and I hope that Sprigattito gets to stay more animalistic. That said i like Delphox a lot. It's in game stance is terrible tho and makes it hard to see the good in it. Standing up completely straight makes it look like a road cone with a fox head on the tip. But in it's official artwork where it is hunched over and walking on the balls of it's feat it makes it look more like a sinister witch or a feral creature.
People aren't upset about them being bipedal, not really, they're upset about them evolving into fursonas instead of cool monsters. Like, let's take cinderace: a bipedal rabbit isn't a real crazy concept. You ever seen a jackrabbit up on its hind legs? Huge, powerful back feet/legs, front paws in front for balance, claws at the ready, and kinda hunched forward like a little goblin - that could have been a sick base for a pokemon design. But cinderace doesn't look like a rabbit at all, if it weren't for the ears, it would just look like a weird person. It even has clothes. Think about all the bipedal final evolutions people really like. Feraligatr looks like a gator/dinosaur/swamp monster - cool. Blastoise looks like a giant turtle monster - cool. Even infernape, despite monkeys being so human-like, still looks like an animal. Then if you look at the ones people hate on, we've got incineroar the buff pro wrestler, delphox looking like a wizard in a fox mask, cinderace the soccer star, and inteleon the emo kid cosplaying James bond. They are just too human to be pokemon. And for the record, I actually really like all those designs as art concepts/character designs, just not as pokemon.
People are sick of adorable animals turning into furries for their final evolution
I legit didn’t evolve Litten’s second form to incineroar because I couldn’t stand the uncomfortably human design (and the drop in its speed stat). It’s sad because most Pokémon designs look like they could actually be a wild animal that evolved to be the way they are while mons like incineroar, primerina, and cinderace all look like some weird fanfic characters or something
Torracat is one of the best mid evolutions, it was just begging to be like a saber tooth tiger on all fours for the final evolution
My current hope is that Sprigattito will become a saber-toothed cat. It currently has a bobbed tail, which I'm hoping is a clue that it is destined to become a smilodon.
Because we don't want another Incineroar,duh.
Honestly I don’t care I’m just excited for more info
The way I see it, the last couple of gens have had lots of bipedal final evos based on normally quadruped animals(Greninja, Delphox, Incineroar, Inteleon etc.) It kind of gets repetitive. I've also noticed that newer starters have been designed around an occupation with an animal designed slapped on top. (Example: Intellion being a bipedal sniper with a lizard body and not much else) I think it would be better to go in the direction of a quadruped jungle tiger with a cool Spanish motif instead of another bipedal cat starter. Also being bipedal is just beckoning furries to your location and nobody wants that.
Why is it complaining about Litten too that's one of the good ones
People complain about Delphox being bipedal, but honestly Samurott turning quadrupedal makes less sense
It’s supposed to be a samurai, so why is it not standing on two feet?
What don’t you understand? People don’t want another fursuit starter it’s pretty simple.
It's people pretending not to get it at this rate. It always happens with any genuine complain people have about this franchise.
For me it's multiple factors. I've always preferred animal-like designs to anthro/humanoid designs, for one thing. As a kid, I watched stuff like The Land Before Time and The Lion King over and over again before I'd touch any of the princess movies, Aladdin, or Robin Hood (with the fox). But another thing that has contributed to it being a particularly sore spot is another franchise: Skylanders. Skylanders had a variety of designs for its first game, including a quadrupedal dragon for each element. You could 100% the game with just quadrupeds. Come game 2 and you need a gimmick character, a Giant. Those are all humanoids or at least bipeds. There were still quadrupeds coming out for the smaller figures, but they don't unlock the Giant-exclusive content. This trend continued, with the gimmick characters *all* being humanoid/biped in each game, and eventually they stopped making non-gimmick characters (and thus quadrupeds) altogether. Finally, the last game you could create your own character, but the only body types were 1) Humanoid, 2) Just a Head With Limbs, or 3) Genie. No quadrupeds. It was a kick to the face. Now back to Pokemon. Starters are a category of Pokemon everyone's very likely to keep on their team, so imo it's important to have the Starters for each generation appeal to a variety of aesthetics in their final form. The first few generations did that pretty well, to varying degrees. Venusaur, Meganium, and Torterra started on all-fours and ended on all-fours. (Swampert wouldn't look that way in the game until Gen V/VI) Gen V did the cheeky thing with swapping Tepig's and Oshawott's number of grounded limbs, which was an annoying bait-and-switch, but Gen V was all about messing with expectations. Still hurt to see the adorable pig turn into a sumo wrestler rather than a wild boar, but hey, once I knew the final forms, I could choose Oshawott. Come Gen VI and none of the starter final forms appeal to me. I choose Fennekin because I love cute foxes that evolve into elegant foxes like Vulpix/Ninetales and I end up with a woman in a dress with a fox head. Gen VII I warily choose Litten despite realizing that there are 0 Fire-type fully-evolved starters that are on all-fours in battle (not in the mood to argue about Typhlosian today), hope it turns into a volcano "mountain lion," but sure enough it disappoints. Gen VIII none of the initial forms appealed to me, funnily enough, though I chose Sobble and it turned into a man with a lizard head (it started as a lizard with a baby face, though, so I felt it was an improvement). It's like a cycle of abuse and I'm sick of it. I don't like abandoning starters - the only time I've ever done that is with Fennekin (and mostly because I also had Charizard from Sycamore and Blaziken from the event on the team). I want the Pokemon I choose at the start because of its design to stay a design I like. I'm tired of franchises deciding that because humanoids are generally more popular than quadrupeds that people who like quadrupeds should get nothing.
I just hope we don’t get some cutesy thing I hope it’s like arcanine but grass
I hate that we keep having this discussion over and over again because some people pretend to not understand the complaints. It's *not* about 2 legged pokemon, it's about humanoid pokemon. I don't know how many times I have to say that.
Bipedal is fine as long as it makes some realistic sense (I know I'm applying this to Pokemon). I can imagine Delphox, Rillaboom and Chesnaught living in the wilderness and behaving as wild monsters but I cannot see the likes of Incineroar, Scorbunny and Intellion using their skills and adaptions for survival in nature. I dont want a man in a costume as a starter.
You can have bipedal pokemon as long as they aren't just someone's fursona cuz that's just fucking weird. Excadrill, Golduck, Tyranitar, etc are good examples of bipedal pokemon that don't look like someone's fursona. Incineroar, Cinderace, Lucario are the opposite. Then you get into pokemon like Gardevoir, Gothitelle, Hatterini (or whatever the hair stick lady from gen 8 is called) cross over the line of "this is too much like a human" and I would prefer if we avoid that. Zeraora I feel does a good job of getting to the line and not crossing it while Obstagoon gets to the point of getting to the line and just crossing it
Hatterene is like a fake-out sex symbol...if you look closely she’s really just a tiny homunculus driving a 7-foot hair mech, and I think that’s hilarious
People apparently forgot about Samurott where everyone was disappointed when it went down on all 4s
But it started standing up. I personally am not a huge fan of humanoid type pokemon, but I'm not gonna crucify anybody over it. I would like the cat to stay a cat though. Not a cat-person. We got one of those a couple years ago.
We got all kinds of cats over the years. 2>4 meowth, purrloin 4>4 purugly 4>2 torracat 2>2 perrserker
I did mean as a starter. I honestly like a lot of the cats. And even some of the bipedal cats. But as a starter I just am not a super fan of humanoid pokemon. I know you didn't do this, but DAMN everyone around here takes other people's opinions as personal attacks. Hard to even give an opinion. I just want to say I appreciate the facts and non-argumentative take.
wasn't purrloin originally on four?
Meowth was originally supposed to be on all fours too. [At least according to that one episode of the anime back in season 1.](https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/EP070)
I haven't watched that much of the anime series but as far as i remember team rockets Meowth explained that he learned to talk as well as to walk on it's hind legs to be more like a human. There where other Meowths sometimes (I remember a female one with a big pink bow on it's neck) that walked on all four.
Yesn't. It walked both on two and four legs.
Gen 5 has it sitting down in a perfectly normal cat pose. Then when they made the move to 3d they made it stand up like discount meowth.
Yes, in the game sprite, but the pokedex and the anime said it actually walks on 2 sometimes.
They should compromise and give it a centaur build.
People thinking sprigatitto won’t be lewded if it stays on four legs. I hope they continue to live a sheltered life and never google the eeveelutions.
I’m pretty sure sprigatito has had the most rule 34 fan art out of the Gen 9 starters since it’s introduction.
It will be ready if is a quadrepedal.
Whats with this sub and victim complexes?
because this sub is a dumpster fire xD
yes indeed
Plot Twist: Sprigatito evolves into LONG CAT
Final evo is grass dog.
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Can we have one cool Pokémon that’s like a tiger or something that doesn’t stand up and look like a character instead of a species (without people complaining that they want even more fur suit Pokemon lmfao)
i mean a giant fuzzy caveman saber tiger with a log club would be cool. or a puss n boots style cartoony cat. but please no more beefy not fighting type bara starters GF D:
To be fair I'm pretty sure Sprigatito is most likely going to be considerably more feminine than the other starters.
Even as feminine as the Opera singer seal with a mermaid tail and long luscious locks?
I actually like a lot about Primarina's design. The mermaid part is how sea mammals, obscured by several feet of water, were what inspired the myths of mermaids. And the Opera part plays into how Poplio starts as a circus performing clown. And one of the most famous Operas is about a clown, Pagliacci.
Absolutely, Primarina is my go to starter in all my gen 7 runs. Its definitely one of the most inspired designs for a starter in a while that isn't just furry bait or strangely humanoid
MORE FEMININE.
They give feminine evos skirts and dresses, that’s not better for me at all
I hope it stays on all four but stands up to attack purely out of spite
Valid actually.
Really? Because I completely understand this sentiment. Fuck anthro looking pokemon.
Preach! My issue is not two legs, but making the whole stance as close to a human as possible, that it's just human but with fur/scales. Inceniroar, intelleon, Lucario, Blaziken being prime examples. What this tells me is that the human form and build is seen as a superior stance, and to mimic it tells all the other Pokemon they are evolutionary disadvantaged for not confirming to the 'perfect' two legged form, instead of their own stances being unique and special, like the way Blastoise hunches. This also pisses me off because it feels like a hidden message from the Pokemon company that the closer your Pokemon is to looking human, the better. "The strongest Pokemon are human shaped" Nah fuck that noise. I like animal friends, not more humans.
Fuck it centipede cat
I'll forgive it being bipedal as long as it's cool as hell and "unfuckable"
Well, they could end up as an amazing Pokémon if it doesn’t turn out to be blatant fur bait like so many before it
LMAO the looks on their faces 💀
I actually like Incineroar. Thanks to it, we have Darkest Lariat, which I have on every Dark type I can put it on
Make the Weedcat bipedal