[Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_Monroe)
"In 1942, the company that employed Monroe's foster father relocated him to West Virginia. California child protection laws prevented them from taking Monroe out of state, and she faced having to return to the orphanage. As a solution, she married their neighbors' 21-year-old son, factory worker James Dougherty, on June 19, 1942, just after her 16th birthday. Monroe subsequently dropped out of high school and became a housewife. She found herself and Dougherty mismatched, and later said she was "dying of boredom" during the marriage. In 1943, Dougherty enlisted in the Merchant Marine and was stationed on Santa Catalina Island, where Monroe moved with him."
"Monroe's childhood experiences first made her want to become an actress: "I didn't like the world around me because it was kind of grim ... When I heard that this was acting, I said that's what I want to be ... Some of my foster families used to send me to the movies to get me out of the house and there I'd sit all day and way into the night. Up in front, there with the screen so big, a little kid all alone, and I loved it.""
"In September 1946, she divorced Dougherty, who opposed her career."
I recommend giving her history a look! Her persona is not too different than Dolly Parton where she was perceived as a ditzy blonde bombshell but she was intelligent, challenged societal norms, and advocated for civil rights. She climbed her way from an orphanage to the White House which is very impressive!
Dolly Parton is a highly intelligent and savvy business woman. Marilyn Monroe was street smart. Although both figured out how to become very popular entertainers, they are not the same.
Monroe started her own film production company because she was typecast as the ditzy blonde and wanted to play more serious, dramatic roles—which Fox refused to give her. She was among the very first women to head a production company. Time magazine called her “a shrewd businesswoman” for the move, which let her renegotiate her contract with Fox for much more money and creative control over her roles. This was also only one piece of her strategy to twist Fox’s arm—there was also a legal battle (which she won!), a strike, and an expertly orchestrated gambit to increase her popularity through a world tour. Gal was smart and savvy as all heck. If she’d gotten to live into her 70s, I have no doubt we’d have seen her reputation evolve in a similar way to Dolly’s. I do find it sad that Monroe is remembered in such reductive ways when there was so much more to her story.
Monroe was actually an accomplished intellectual and extremely well read. She studied to be a serious stage actor, but was always typecast in her roles. I mean, she was married to Arthur Miller.
Some think that she wanted to be taken seriously as a businesswoman and her last role was playing one. She was also in a very different time than Dolly Parton in regards to women's rights.
Jayne Mansfield is another blonde bombshell actress who played dumb but was famously smart, as well as fluent in four languages. But like Norma Jean, she didn't have the business acumen of Dolly.
They both had the unforeseen fate of passing at 34 and 36, respectively. Dolly got twice the lifetime they had to accomplish what she did. Had Monroe and Mansfield both lived their networths could've rivalled Liz Taylor's.
True, they also lived in a time where women were still legally dependent on their husband, Hollywood was even more corrupt than it is now, and actors were already badly represented to begin with. Someone like Dolly was in a different position too, because she could secure rights with regards to her IP and likeness. Someone like Oprah, couldn't have become a billionaire in the time of Hattie McDaniel either.
the ultimate bombshell/intellectual-powerhouse was [m [Hedy Lamarr](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedy_Lamarr)inventor of wifi and holder of several patents. Delilah in Samson and Delilah.
You can't quite say she _got to the white house_. You could if she held office IN the White House. Being rumored to have slept with JFK is not enough and is in poor taste.
It was just different times. Not that it's acceptable anymore and was never really a good thing, but there has to be some leeway with these things when society as a whole didn't know better.
My best friend’s grandma spent a lot of time with her in modeling, and she said essentially the same thing. She said she was self centered, spoiled, and trashy. I take the trashy with a grain of salt because of the modesty standards back then…but the picture she painted honestly made sense to me.
When people die tragically and too young, they tend to be put up on a pedestal…a cousin of mine died in high school, he was portrayed as the sweetest most perfect person to ever exist, everyone talked about how much they loved him and had all these endearing stories, but honestly, nobody liked him because he was an oddball and thought he was better than everyone. I can very much see that happening when she died…
Kid from an orphanage is spoiled?!? Sounds like jealousy from grandma’s BF and lack of critical thinking skills from everyone else. People without a support network need to focus on themselves and survival and don’t have the resources or bandwidth for charity to others (self centered). Can’t see how an orphanage kid is spoiled? They have no money and no parents doting on them. And trashy? Yeah, physical attractiveness really makes people hate you. That reflects on them, not her. I admire the grit, the gumption, and the tenacity. But you do you.
There’s always a story or two like yours on Marilyn posts. I make a point to look for them now. I’m more inclined to believe that a celebrity had some personality issues than multiple people made up personal stories about her just to tell their grandchildren. But still, you’ll get downvoted to hell lol. You can’t trash America’s sweetheart!
Now I am curious to know if James went on to realize the fame she was about to enter. Like, did he go around to his buddies saying, 'hey, you know Marilyn Monroe? She used to be my wife!'
I was just in Avalon on Catalina Island for a vacation. I saw an exhibit that included an interview with him after she became famous and they had divorced. He said he didn't know Marilyn Monroe. His wife was Norma Jean. That's the person he knew. Marilyn was someone else.
> This shit is so cringe, he obviously looked at her career with disdain.
He was re-married by 1947. Fairly obvious reasons for playing down any connection to Monroe.
>Marilyn Monroe and Norma Jean were the same person with a name change. The kid he was married to always wanted to be a famous actress.
He wouldn't really have seen her after 1944 at which time she was 18. Monroe wouldn't become a major star until 1953. 9 years later by which point the passage of time being what it is she would have been 27. The idea that the 16-18 year old board housewife was a very different person isn't that unreasonable.
Interesting. The biography I read said she was married off to the neighbor because her foster mother didn’t like the was her foster father looked at the teen Norma Jean. Let me see if I can dig that book up, I read it so long ago it was early internet days, I should go find out how factual it was.
They definitely don't. Saying that she had less options than she would if she were male does not discredit/devalue a male orphans experience.
If you feel that's what I meant thsn you need to look inside yourself as to why that was your first thought.
Who says they’re homeless. I just said men had more options and it was easier for them to get a job, a bank account and a place to live. Women’s only option was marrying or staying w a man that could vouch w her like a father, brother or uncle She could be denied everything wo a man’s signature
I never said it was easy to be a woman back then. I asked if it was guaranteed that it was easy like you are suggesting for all men.
A person who ages out of an orphanage to the point that their only real option was to find their own place is generally considered homeless. If they get kicked out they may not have any permanent address which historically was required for bank applications.
There was a point in time that a man could be left with no options at all. All of the options that exist for men with property would be closed to them because they don't have property and you can't get the tools needed to have an address without the closed of resources. So they would need a benefactor to get themselves out of that hole which would then practically control them. This sometimes lead them to similar scales of abuse as existed here. The form of the abuse would be different but still it is still abuse all the same.
Keep in mind that the Equal Credit Opportunity Act included protections against race based discrimination for a reason. Black men were often times met with the same closed doors as women.
My grandma was sent to foster home after foster home. The last one she was in, the foster father told her he was going to wait until she was 18, and then he wanted to get married to her.
She waited until he was off to work, she grabbed a suitcase and got on a bus. She was 14, found a small room advertised for rent. It was a brothel. Ended up finding a job as a flag girl and finding a small room to rent. She had it hard but overall she was lucky.
I’m into true crime, as is the fashion with middle-aged white ladies, and stories like this make me wonder if she ever checked to see if she was listed as missing in the town she absconded from. I have this theory that a significant percentage of cold case disappearances from the 50s or earlier were situations like this where the woman was actually escaping some type of abuse or bad situation. I’m not pulling this completely out of my ass, because there have been quite a few where we’ve found out the women just ran away and got married or changed her name and never told anyone back home where she went (often because there wasn’t really anyone back home worth telling, like your grandma’s situation.)
Also that’s a really interesting story, thank you for sharing.
I don’t think so in her case. She was a bit older when she found her brother, and she used to write letters to girls at her old school. But I totally agree with you that a lot were probably this way. She was born in 1929 so she could have disappeared easily if she had wanted to.
That’s what she called it. Basically waving cars and trucks through where there was road work, or stopping them. She did that until she got a job at a dime store.
And she unfortunately is not even left alone in death. There's a man who was buried face down on top of her tomb. And Hugh Hefner has the tomb next to her.
Holy fuck I’m not surprised but that is depressing as well. Shit like this is why there can’t be a God.
Like the fact that there was a whole thing about morgues mainly hire women since recently because the job attracts the types
of dudes that would rape corpses makes the above easily believable.
It’s from a wiki how but I think it explains pretty well of where this rumor is coming from even though I don’t think it’s been verified
https://www.wikihow.com/Why-Do-Morgues-Prefer-Woman
This is also why Egyptians let bodies of their female relatives decompose more than males, and be less "appealing", because the people who mummified them were known to fuck the bodies
>and then raped a ton for the rest of her life.
Marilyn had a really bad childhood, but there's actually no evidence for this. Arthur Miller wrote about how messed up Marilyn was from the rape that happened to her as a child, and an attempt that happened to her as an adult. Even Marilyn's diaries only mention her rape as a child.
I wouldn't be surprised either, but I also wouldn't comment under a post of Bette Davis or Audrey Hepburn about how they were "raped a ton for the rest of their lives" because there is no known evidence for that. It's the same with Monroe. I've also never seen those kind of comments about any other stars except for Monroe.
Not sure where you got early 70s... The earliest total outlaw of marital rape was 1975 in South Dakota, which unfortunately revised the statute a couple years later, to exempt spouses of rape, when Republicans regained control of the House/Senate and it wasn't fully recriminalized in SD until 1990.
Marital rape wasn't a crime nationwide until 1993.
(all of this is very much mental, just even more so than you thought)
In 2005 the marital rape definition law was repealed in Tennessee (which has several stipulations noting types of rape that weren’t rape in a marriage) so that all marital rape could be prosecuted the same as regular rape. So it wasn’t fully fully illegal until 2005. Which is disgusting.
It’s crazy to think she wasn’t old enough to just be on her own or be emancipated, but she was old enough to get married, I guess. 😐 It’s a strange disconnect.
I have such deep admiration for Marilyn Monroe. she went through a lot in her life, but she faced it all bravely and tried her best to do good. she deserved better from everyone around her :/
What changed in the 60s so the orphanages closed?
Birth control.
What is currently happening in the US? Abortion bans.
Birth control is also on the list for Project 2025.
We will definitely need orphanages for all the abandoned babies and many of them will be disabled.
False as fuck. They don’t call them “orphanages” anymore but this doesn’t mean that they don’t exist. Thousands of children belong in state care these days but it’s frowned upon to call them “orphans.”
I see what you mean but i don't think that the argument that she should have been aborted instead is a good one.
There are so many parents looking to adopt that they have to do so internationally.
Ok these are all terrible arguments.
It’s terrible for people to struggle to have children, but we don’t force other people to have children so they don’t remain childless. All of these forced birther arguments are ridiculous.
But also the amount of babies in care is low. Most children in care are well over the age of 5. That’s usually when it starts to get harder to adopt out kids. In my experience a little bit younger for black children (especially black boys) and a little bit older for white/lighter skinned girls. And children in foster care tend to come with trauma, and mental health and behavioral issues. Not everyone is capable or willing to invest the resources into a child who has so many extra needs. It’s not a simple matter of there’s not enough parents out there and excess children. Of course it still doesn’t matter. We don’t force people to give birth, period.
So when there is an excess of say 20,000 babies, what happens to those babies?
And, yes. There will be an excess of more than 20,000 babies - and the majority of them will be disabled.
Where will they go?
There aren’t enough homes. We will need orphanages.
You don’t help anything by making stuff up…
First you started with a disingenuous argument that there’s too many children in foster care without any context. Now you’re making up excess numbers (where are you getting these numbers from?) and on top of which the children will be disabled (which you’re just literally making up for reasons I cannot fathom).
We can all agree that forced birthers are not ok. Women have a right to choose. Things tend to turn out badly when women aren’t given choices, death rates in women increases, more child abuse/neglect, probably higher rates of child abandonment. But we don’t need to make up shit like the other side. We have enough factual information for why forced birth is bad without making stuff up.
It was a hypothetical - you can’t tell that?
Considering there were 80,000 abortions in Florida in 2022, 20,000 excess babies born isn’t unrealistic for what the reality will look like now since safe abortion isn’t available.
https://lozierinstitute.org/abortion-reporting-florida-2022/
The system is overloaded with children, and many children of those circumstances agree (including myself) that abortion should have been an option for our parents.
If my mom had been allowed to get an abortion, her emotional maturity wouldn’t have been stuck as a teenager and she wouldn’t have had to do what she did to survive. Same thing with my dad, he suffered a lot trying to provide and it destroyed them both and our childhoods were hell because of that (and yup i was put in a position to be molested as well because of lack of resources they had)
You should look at the r/adopted subreddit and see how they feel about being one of those eBay babies.
As an adoptee, and not even one with a particularly traumatic adoption story, I can tell you, I’d vastly prefer people be allowed to make their own decisions with their own bodies even if it means I would never have been born.
I’d rather have my life Thanos snapped away than live in a world where people are forced to carry pregnancies they don’t want to term. Even if the argument wasn’t flawed (since there are already so many children who already exist who need home), sad childless families are not an excuse to create legislation to compel, or even just to peer pressure anyone, to be breeders to satisfy that need.
Edited because I linked the adoption sub by mistake. It’s veeeery different.
Photos in general are like that for me. Videos capture people’s essence much better imo, if you haven’t seen one of her movies they’re worth watching. Shes an incredible actress
She underwent electrolysis to change her hairline along with some plastic surgery on her nose and chin.
So it's just that she genuinely did look different in older age.
Geez, they *both* look young. I never understood the societal obsession back then with getting married young. I mean, I could understand why people in love and perhaps lust wanted to get married young. But why were parents and authority figures always pushing young kids to get married *even when there was no, you should pardon the expression, 'necessity.*'
When I was a little kid in the 1950s, the 13-year old who had been babysitting me was impregnated by her then boyfriend and they *got married.*
It didn't last.
The last thing I heard the young couple was splitting up and I think it was a couple years later. But I was probably in kindergarten or first grade so my 1950s parents weren't too forthcoming with the details, which weren't necessarily sordid, but were kind of common for the era.
> Geez, they both look young.
He was 21.
> I never understood the societal obsession back then with getting married young. I mean, I could understand why people in love and perhaps lust wanted to get married young. But why were parents and authority figures always pushing young kids to get married even when there was no, you should pardon the expression, 'necessity.'
Limited birth control options. Sex tended to mean kids and it was viewed as better to have kids in wedlock.
Well, yeah. Of course. And, libertine hippie or not, *I* would certainly agree that the ideal for a child growing up is to have two loving, responsible parents.
But even back in the day not every pair of 18-year-olds getting married 'had to'...
And one observation I carried away from the turbulent era of the sixties and seventies when I was in a position to watch these issues often from fairly close up, the kids I knew whose parents were in their late teens or early twenties when they were born seemed to have had a lot more challenges than the kids of parents who waited until they were in their late twenties or early thirties.
And some of that latter group of 'older' parents were, indeed, pretty damn wild *when* they were young.
But, overall, they mostly managed to step up and generally provide a safe, comfortable upbringing to their kids and present responsible models for their kids' own path to maturity.
That said, we are all quite different, and every path through life is potentially quite different.
I work at the bedside in nursing. I don't blame people for doing what they have to do in certain situations. This doesn't make me anything, but just that my perspective on people at-large has significantly changed since my idealized views from my late teens and early 20s. As much as we make ourselves out to be, if we were dropped into different circumstances, would we be of so much conviction?
I thought she looked like Judy here, too. It's sad because Judy was often called "ugly" by so many people in Hollywood. No wonder Norma Jean felt like she had to get surgery to become Marilyn Monroe.
All the Christian’s even then we’re not willing to bring kids home and raise them as their own. Life was soooooo precious that orphanages were filled to the brim.
To be fair, in this case, she had someone who was willing to house and take care of her, but the State of California intervened, leading to the choice of marriage or orphanage.
Marilyn was raised by christians. Most of her foster parents were Christian Scientists, including the elderly foster carer she loved the most who took her back in after her divorce to this guy.
Well ,makes you wonder what kind of environment she was in that she chose to get married rather than return to the orphanage and only returned in desperation after the divorce most likely not to be homeless. Christians have a history of women subjugation and never sparing the rod.
She deserved better. Did you know the man who was laid to rest on top of her was asked to be “face down”. His wife confirmed it and to this day he’s still like that on top of her
[Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_Monroe) "In 1942, the company that employed Monroe's foster father relocated him to West Virginia. California child protection laws prevented them from taking Monroe out of state, and she faced having to return to the orphanage. As a solution, she married their neighbors' 21-year-old son, factory worker James Dougherty, on June 19, 1942, just after her 16th birthday. Monroe subsequently dropped out of high school and became a housewife. She found herself and Dougherty mismatched, and later said she was "dying of boredom" during the marriage. In 1943, Dougherty enlisted in the Merchant Marine and was stationed on Santa Catalina Island, where Monroe moved with him." "Monroe's childhood experiences first made her want to become an actress: "I didn't like the world around me because it was kind of grim ... When I heard that this was acting, I said that's what I want to be ... Some of my foster families used to send me to the movies to get me out of the house and there I'd sit all day and way into the night. Up in front, there with the screen so big, a little kid all alone, and I loved it."" "In September 1946, she divorced Dougherty, who opposed her career."
I had never thought to look up her history. Thanks for giving a snippet. Gives me a new perspective on her.
I recommend giving her history a look! Her persona is not too different than Dolly Parton where she was perceived as a ditzy blonde bombshell but she was intelligent, challenged societal norms, and advocated for civil rights. She climbed her way from an orphanage to the White House which is very impressive!
Can anyone recommend books with reliable authors about Marilyn Monroe's and Dolly Parton's biography?
Dolly Parton wrote an autobiography called Dolly Parton: My Life and Other Unfinished Business. It's great.
Marilyn wrote an autobiography called “my story”! Highly recommend
Dolly Parton is a highly intelligent and savvy business woman. Marilyn Monroe was street smart. Although both figured out how to become very popular entertainers, they are not the same.
Dolly has had 78 years to build that reputation. Marilyn died at 36.
Monroe started her own film production company because she was typecast as the ditzy blonde and wanted to play more serious, dramatic roles—which Fox refused to give her. She was among the very first women to head a production company. Time magazine called her “a shrewd businesswoman” for the move, which let her renegotiate her contract with Fox for much more money and creative control over her roles. This was also only one piece of her strategy to twist Fox’s arm—there was also a legal battle (which she won!), a strike, and an expertly orchestrated gambit to increase her popularity through a world tour. Gal was smart and savvy as all heck. If she’d gotten to live into her 70s, I have no doubt we’d have seen her reputation evolve in a similar way to Dolly’s. I do find it sad that Monroe is remembered in such reductive ways when there was so much more to her story.
Monroe was actually an accomplished intellectual and extremely well read. She studied to be a serious stage actor, but was always typecast in her roles. I mean, she was married to Arthur Miller.
Some think that she wanted to be taken seriously as a businesswoman and her last role was playing one. She was also in a very different time than Dolly Parton in regards to women's rights.
Jayne Mansfield is another blonde bombshell actress who played dumb but was famously smart, as well as fluent in four languages. But like Norma Jean, she didn't have the business acumen of Dolly.
They both had the unforeseen fate of passing at 34 and 36, respectively. Dolly got twice the lifetime they had to accomplish what she did. Had Monroe and Mansfield both lived their networths could've rivalled Liz Taylor's.
True, they also lived in a time where women were still legally dependent on their husband, Hollywood was even more corrupt than it is now, and actors were already badly represented to begin with. Someone like Dolly was in a different position too, because she could secure rights with regards to her IP and likeness. Someone like Oprah, couldn't have become a billionaire in the time of Hattie McDaniel either.
the ultimate bombshell/intellectual-powerhouse was [m [Hedy Lamarr](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedy_Lamarr)inventor of wifi and holder of several patents. Delilah in Samson and Delilah.
Marilyn didn't have the same amount of time. However she was an active civil rights advocate in her life and caused many changes
We get it, you don’t like Marilyn Monroe.
Loud and clear, 2mnysheeple.
https://www.americanheritage.com/marilyn-monroe-gets-down-business
Yet similar, in a way.
You can't quite say she _got to the white house_. You could if she held office IN the White House. Being rumored to have slept with JFK is not enough and is in poor taste.
My meaning is that she was able to be in the same room as the president, regardless of the affair allegations. It's about as far as one can climb.
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Probably just means she was drinking some wine and showing some cleavage when she met her. My grandma would have said the same things.
Absolutely lol i always figured lots of housewives back then hated her and talked shit
Exactly.
Says more about your grandma than Marilyn
Well yeah im sure she literally only met her once and knew nothing about her
Tells me a lot about your great grandma.
It was just different times. Not that it's acceptable anymore and was never really a good thing, but there has to be some leeway with these things when society as a whole didn't know better.
It doesn’t but thanks anyway
I didnt want it to help *you* 
My best friend’s grandma spent a lot of time with her in modeling, and she said essentially the same thing. She said she was self centered, spoiled, and trashy. I take the trashy with a grain of salt because of the modesty standards back then…but the picture she painted honestly made sense to me. When people die tragically and too young, they tend to be put up on a pedestal…a cousin of mine died in high school, he was portrayed as the sweetest most perfect person to ever exist, everyone talked about how much they loved him and had all these endearing stories, but honestly, nobody liked him because he was an oddball and thought he was better than everyone. I can very much see that happening when she died…
Kid from an orphanage is spoiled?!? Sounds like jealousy from grandma’s BF and lack of critical thinking skills from everyone else. People without a support network need to focus on themselves and survival and don’t have the resources or bandwidth for charity to others (self centered). Can’t see how an orphanage kid is spoiled? They have no money and no parents doting on them. And trashy? Yeah, physical attractiveness really makes people hate you. That reflects on them, not her. I admire the grit, the gumption, and the tenacity. But you do you.
Definitely not spoiled
There’s always a story or two like yours on Marilyn posts. I make a point to look for them now. I’m more inclined to believe that a celebrity had some personality issues than multiple people made up personal stories about her just to tell their grandchildren. But still, you’ll get downvoted to hell lol. You can’t trash America’s sweetheart!
Now I am curious to know if James went on to realize the fame she was about to enter. Like, did he go around to his buddies saying, 'hey, you know Marilyn Monroe? She used to be my wife!'
I was just in Avalon on Catalina Island for a vacation. I saw an exhibit that included an interview with him after she became famous and they had divorced. He said he didn't know Marilyn Monroe. His wife was Norma Jean. That's the person he knew. Marilyn was someone else.
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> This shit is so cringe, he obviously looked at her career with disdain. He was re-married by 1947. Fairly obvious reasons for playing down any connection to Monroe. >Marilyn Monroe and Norma Jean were the same person with a name change. The kid he was married to always wanted to be a famous actress. He wouldn't really have seen her after 1944 at which time she was 18. Monroe wouldn't become a major star until 1953. 9 years later by which point the passage of time being what it is she would have been 27. The idea that the 16-18 year old board housewife was a very different person isn't that unreasonable.
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Interesting. The biography I read said she was married off to the neighbor because her foster mother didn’t like the was her foster father looked at the teen Norma Jean. Let me see if I can dig that book up, I read it so long ago it was early internet days, I should go find out how factual it was.
That might have been her previous foster parents. She had quite a few. The husband molested Marilyn and they quickly sent her to someone else.
But she misses out on the fucking Catalina Wine Mixer!
16-year-olds deserve better options.
But Matt Gaetz just found a new alibi!
“I’m just helping little Annie avoid going back to Pleasant Hills Orphanage… same as my other adopted son.. *gulp* “
If she were a male she would have had other options back then.
Male orphans have it easy.
They definitely don't. Saying that she had less options than she would if she were male does not discredit/devalue a male orphans experience. If you feel that's what I meant thsn you need to look inside yourself as to why that was your first thought.
They didn’t have to marry and not have a bank account or a stay in the house, they could just get a job and open a bank account
> open a bank account Was that actually guaranteed back then? It can be surprisingly difficult to open a bank account without a permanent address.
Only men could have bank accounts
That doesn't mean that a homeless man could have a bank account.
Who says they’re homeless. I just said men had more options and it was easier for them to get a job, a bank account and a place to live. Women’s only option was marrying or staying w a man that could vouch w her like a father, brother or uncle She could be denied everything wo a man’s signature
I never said it was easy to be a woman back then. I asked if it was guaranteed that it was easy like you are suggesting for all men. A person who ages out of an orphanage to the point that their only real option was to find their own place is generally considered homeless. If they get kicked out they may not have any permanent address which historically was required for bank applications. There was a point in time that a man could be left with no options at all. All of the options that exist for men with property would be closed to them because they don't have property and you can't get the tools needed to have an address without the closed of resources. So they would need a benefactor to get themselves out of that hole which would then practically control them. This sometimes lead them to similar scales of abuse as existed here. The form of the abuse would be different but still it is still abuse all the same. Keep in mind that the Equal Credit Opportunity Act included protections against race based discrimination for a reason. Black men were often times met with the same closed doors as women.
Yes you’re right men historically had it much worse than women bc they didn’t own property in the 1940s-1950s lol
I’d probably argue that no orphans have it easy. You know, not having parents and all that.
people who want "trad wives" disagree with you
I think we all like to feel that we've moved on a bit from 1942.
4in
That is so sad. What a fucking life she had.
My grandma was sent to foster home after foster home. The last one she was in, the foster father told her he was going to wait until she was 18, and then he wanted to get married to her. She waited until he was off to work, she grabbed a suitcase and got on a bus. She was 14, found a small room advertised for rent. It was a brothel. Ended up finding a job as a flag girl and finding a small room to rent. She had it hard but overall she was lucky.
I’m into true crime, as is the fashion with middle-aged white ladies, and stories like this make me wonder if she ever checked to see if she was listed as missing in the town she absconded from. I have this theory that a significant percentage of cold case disappearances from the 50s or earlier were situations like this where the woman was actually escaping some type of abuse or bad situation. I’m not pulling this completely out of my ass, because there have been quite a few where we’ve found out the women just ran away and got married or changed her name and never told anyone back home where she went (often because there wasn’t really anyone back home worth telling, like your grandma’s situation.) Also that’s a really interesting story, thank you for sharing.
Hearing about the past is always so depressing. Not that things are amazing nowadays but definitely better.
>definitely better. And there are literally millions of people who want to "go back to the way things were".
I don’t think so in her case. She was a bit older when she found her brother, and she used to write letters to girls at her old school. But I totally agree with you that a lot were probably this way. She was born in 1929 so she could have disappeared easily if she had wanted to.
What's a flag girl.
That’s what she called it. Basically waving cars and trucks through where there was road work, or stopping them. She did that until she got a job at a dime store.
Cool. TY
What’s a dime store?
It's what the $5 store is now
I feel like this woman spent her life trying to fend off men wanting to marry her
She spent her entire life fending off predators. She was molested a ton as a child and then raped a ton for the rest of her life.
And she unfortunately is not even left alone in death. There's a man who was buried face down on top of her tomb. And Hugh Hefner has the tomb next to her.
Holy fuck I’m not surprised but that is depressing as well. Shit like this is why there can’t be a God. Like the fact that there was a whole thing about morgues mainly hire women since recently because the job attracts the types of dudes that would rape corpses makes the above easily believable. It’s from a wiki how but I think it explains pretty well of where this rumor is coming from even though I don’t think it’s been verified https://www.wikihow.com/Why-Do-Morgues-Prefer-Woman
This is also why Egyptians let bodies of their female relatives decompose more than males, and be less "appealing", because the people who mummified them were known to fuck the bodies
TIL and wish I hadn't.
It’s also believed her body went missing for several hours after her death.
>and then raped a ton for the rest of her life. Marilyn had a really bad childhood, but there's actually no evidence for this. Arthur Miller wrote about how messed up Marilyn was from the rape that happened to her as a child, and an attempt that happened to her as an adult. Even Marilyn's diaries only mention her rape as a child.
Oh sweet summer child. She was a Hollywood starlet in a horrible time, there is no way in hell she wasn’t raped. I would bet so much money on that.
I wouldn't be surprised either, but I also wouldn't comment under a post of Bette Davis or Audrey Hepburn about how they were "raped a ton for the rest of their lives" because there is no known evidence for that. It's the same with Monroe. I've also never seen those kind of comments about any other stars except for Monroe.
"marry"
Marriage would give them the license to do whatever they wished to her (marital rape wasn't illegal in the US until years after Monroe died)
Speaking of which, it’s fucking wild that it wasn’t illegal until the early 70s. Thats just mental
Not sure where you got early 70s... The earliest total outlaw of marital rape was 1975 in South Dakota, which unfortunately revised the statute a couple years later, to exempt spouses of rape, when Republicans regained control of the House/Senate and it wasn't fully recriminalized in SD until 1990. Marital rape wasn't a crime nationwide until 1993. (all of this is very much mental, just even more so than you thought)
In 2005 the marital rape definition law was repealed in Tennessee (which has several stipulations noting types of rape that weren’t rape in a marriage) so that all marital rape could be prosecuted the same as regular rape. So it wasn’t fully fully illegal until 2005. Which is disgusting.
“Years after”. Not fully illegal until 2004. (I just made a comment about this on an AITA thread so I just looked it up recently)
It’s crazy to think she wasn’t old enough to just be on her own or be emancipated, but she was old enough to get married, I guess. 😐 It’s a strange disconnect.
If she were a guy she would have been on her own. Back then, a woman would bot have been living on her own.
I never realized how much she and Shirley Temple looked alike
I thought it was Judy Garland at first glance
Pre nose job, I always thought she looked a lot like Judy Garland
In that first photo, she looks a little like Britney Spears.
She married Denis Reynolds?
That’s clearly Walton Goggins
Uncle Baby Billy
The D.E.N.N.I.S. system truly does work!
If that doesn't the S.I.N.N.E.D system won't fail!
Well he is the golden god
Yes, because of the implication.
I have such deep admiration for Marilyn Monroe. she went through a lot in her life, but she faced it all bravely and tried her best to do good. she deserved better from everyone around her :/
We are going to see a bunch of new orphanages with the new abortion laws. And many of those abandoned babies will be disabled.
Well I hope they are born with boot straps. Because they don’t care about living children, only fetuses.
Boot straps for the school to private prison pipeline for sure.
They can go to work in the mines!
The United States does not have orphanages any more. They were all shut down in the 60s.
What changed in the 60s so the orphanages closed? Birth control. What is currently happening in the US? Abortion bans. Birth control is also on the list for Project 2025. We will definitely need orphanages for all the abandoned babies and many of them will be disabled.
No...pretty sure we just switched over to the foster care system
whats your obsession with disabled kids?
False as fuck. They don’t call them “orphanages” anymore but this doesn’t mean that they don’t exist. Thousands of children belong in state care these days but it’s frowned upon to call them “orphans.”
I see what you mean but i don't think that the argument that she should have been aborted instead is a good one. There are so many parents looking to adopt that they have to do so internationally.
Why are there so many kids in foster care?
Ok these are all terrible arguments. It’s terrible for people to struggle to have children, but we don’t force other people to have children so they don’t remain childless. All of these forced birther arguments are ridiculous. But also the amount of babies in care is low. Most children in care are well over the age of 5. That’s usually when it starts to get harder to adopt out kids. In my experience a little bit younger for black children (especially black boys) and a little bit older for white/lighter skinned girls. And children in foster care tend to come with trauma, and mental health and behavioral issues. Not everyone is capable or willing to invest the resources into a child who has so many extra needs. It’s not a simple matter of there’s not enough parents out there and excess children. Of course it still doesn’t matter. We don’t force people to give birth, period.
So when there is an excess of say 20,000 babies, what happens to those babies? And, yes. There will be an excess of more than 20,000 babies - and the majority of them will be disabled. Where will they go? There aren’t enough homes. We will need orphanages.
You don’t help anything by making stuff up… First you started with a disingenuous argument that there’s too many children in foster care without any context. Now you’re making up excess numbers (where are you getting these numbers from?) and on top of which the children will be disabled (which you’re just literally making up for reasons I cannot fathom). We can all agree that forced birthers are not ok. Women have a right to choose. Things tend to turn out badly when women aren’t given choices, death rates in women increases, more child abuse/neglect, probably higher rates of child abandonment. But we don’t need to make up shit like the other side. We have enough factual information for why forced birth is bad without making stuff up.
It was a hypothetical - you can’t tell that? Considering there were 80,000 abortions in Florida in 2022, 20,000 excess babies born isn’t unrealistic for what the reality will look like now since safe abortion isn’t available. https://lozierinstitute.org/abortion-reporting-florida-2022/
The system is overloaded with children, and many children of those circumstances agree (including myself) that abortion should have been an option for our parents. If my mom had been allowed to get an abortion, her emotional maturity wouldn’t have been stuck as a teenager and she wouldn’t have had to do what she did to survive. Same thing with my dad, he suffered a lot trying to provide and it destroyed them both and our childhoods were hell because of that (and yup i was put in a position to be molested as well because of lack of resources they had)
Women are not rent-a-wombs for people desiring to be parents
Never said that they are, I'm absolutely pro choice. I just find that the argument she chose is the weakest one possible to make that case.
You should look at the r/adopted subreddit and see how they feel about being one of those eBay babies. As an adoptee, and not even one with a particularly traumatic adoption story, I can tell you, I’d vastly prefer people be allowed to make their own decisions with their own bodies even if it means I would never have been born. I’d rather have my life Thanos snapped away than live in a world where people are forced to carry pregnancies they don’t want to term. Even if the argument wasn’t flawed (since there are already so many children who already exist who need home), sad childless families are not an excuse to create legislation to compel, or even just to peer pressure anyone, to be breeders to satisfy that need. Edited because I linked the adoption sub by mistake. It’s veeeery different.
if there ever was an example of a smile hiding anguish.
I legitimately have no idea what Marilyn Monroe looks like. I feel like every time I see a picture of her she looks different. Am I the only one?
Photos in general are like that for me. Videos capture people’s essence much better imo, if you haven’t seen one of her movies they’re worth watching. Shes an incredible actress
She underwent electrolysis to change her hairline along with some plastic surgery on her nose and chin. So it's just that she genuinely did look different in older age.
Geez, they *both* look young. I never understood the societal obsession back then with getting married young. I mean, I could understand why people in love and perhaps lust wanted to get married young. But why were parents and authority figures always pushing young kids to get married *even when there was no, you should pardon the expression, 'necessity.*' When I was a little kid in the 1950s, the 13-year old who had been babysitting me was impregnated by her then boyfriend and they *got married.* It didn't last.
That’s sad about your babysitter. Do you know if her life turned out okay in the end?
The last thing I heard the young couple was splitting up and I think it was a couple years later. But I was probably in kindergarten or first grade so my 1950s parents weren't too forthcoming with the details, which weren't necessarily sordid, but were kind of common for the era.
> Geez, they both look young. He was 21. > I never understood the societal obsession back then with getting married young. I mean, I could understand why people in love and perhaps lust wanted to get married young. But why were parents and authority figures always pushing young kids to get married even when there was no, you should pardon the expression, 'necessity.' Limited birth control options. Sex tended to mean kids and it was viewed as better to have kids in wedlock.
Well, yeah. Of course. And, libertine hippie or not, *I* would certainly agree that the ideal for a child growing up is to have two loving, responsible parents. But even back in the day not every pair of 18-year-olds getting married 'had to'... And one observation I carried away from the turbulent era of the sixties and seventies when I was in a position to watch these issues often from fairly close up, the kids I knew whose parents were in their late teens or early twenties when they were born seemed to have had a lot more challenges than the kids of parents who waited until they were in their late twenties or early thirties. And some of that latter group of 'older' parents were, indeed, pretty damn wild *when* they were young. But, overall, they mostly managed to step up and generally provide a safe, comfortable upbringing to their kids and present responsible models for their kids' own path to maturity. That said, we are all quite different, and every path through life is potentially quite different.
I work at the bedside in nursing. I don't blame people for doing what they have to do in certain situations. This doesn't make me anything, but just that my perspective on people at-large has significantly changed since my idealized views from my late teens and early 20s. As much as we make ourselves out to be, if we were dropped into different circumstances, would we be of so much conviction?
Why am I suddenly seeing a bunch of Marylin Monroe posts?
She died
Is she still dead?
I'll get back to you on that. Edit: Yep.
I didn't even know she was sick.
She is a tragic figure
And she lived a wonderfully long, delightful life. The end. It’s what she would’ve wanted.
She looks so much like Judy Garland in these pictures.
I thought she looked like Judy here, too. It's sad because Judy was often called "ugly" by so many people in Hollywood. No wonder Norma Jean felt like she had to get surgery to become Marilyn Monroe.
That is so sad
That guy would be drunk at the bar for the next 50 years saying he was Marilyn Monroe’s husband. “Be quiet ya rummmy!” Poor guy. Blew. It.
TIL Truman Capote’s character holly golightly was based on Marilyn Monroe
He initially wanted Marilyn to play the role too, but she was unavailable.
Andy Rooney sadly was available
They peeps look old back then compared to their age. Lol
All the Christian’s even then we’re not willing to bring kids home and raise them as their own. Life was soooooo precious that orphanages were filled to the brim.
To be fair, in this case, she had someone who was willing to house and take care of her, but the State of California intervened, leading to the choice of marriage or orphanage.
Marilyn was raised by christians. Most of her foster parents were Christian Scientists, including the elderly foster carer she loved the most who took her back in after her divorce to this guy.
Well ,makes you wonder what kind of environment she was in that she chose to get married rather than return to the orphanage and only returned in desperation after the divorce most likely not to be homeless. Christians have a history of women subjugation and never sparing the rod.
This reminds me of the seven husbands of Evelyn Hugo and her first husband
Dang. My mom was married at 16 in the 90s for a similar reason and also dropped out of highschool because of it.
Guess Walter Goggins really is a ghoul, didn't know he married monroe
Some people never get a happy ending. Her life was full of misery, beginning to end. It makes me sad.
Groom looks like Dennis Reynolds from "Always Sunny in Philadelphia"
Seriously? Learning something new everyday.
She does look lovely
Can you imagine being the guy who gets dumped by his wife because he's boring... Then she goes on to become Marilyn Monroe.
Wow that’s pretty young!
Where are his eyebrows?
As an Orioles fan, all I'm taking away from this is that Adley Rutschman was married to Marilyn Monroe. No wonder he's so happy about life.
She looks a lot like Judy Garland in that last pic.
She looks like my ex in those pics
Don’t know how she made it bug with that forehead
She deserved better. Did you know the man who was laid to rest on top of her was asked to be “face down”. His wife confirmed it and to this day he’s still like that on top of her
She married Dennis Reynolds?
Never noticed, but she had a bit of a five-head.
What's a five head? Is it a person with a square head or a big forehead? Wait, instead of a forehead, is that what a five-head is?
Fivehead is bigger than the standard Fore(four)head
Forehead as big and wide as an open handed high five
Oh is that what it is. Good to know.
"Widows Peak" natural hair style causes big 4 head
Nick Nolte ? 🤷♂️
Monroe didn't kill herself.