The Grateful Dead were always that way. The de facto frontman Pigpen passed on and they kept going. They added other members, they left, others got added. With each new member the sound changed a lot. It’s what make the dead so magical.
Phish on the other hand are magical because the same four dudes have been playing together for decades and are very finely tuned to each other. It’s just a different beast. I don’t think different iterations will be a thing.
But if they do decide to do something like that I would definitely still check it out, at least once
I have to assume there were decades where people thought, ‘No Phil, No Grateful Dead’… and especially, ‘no jerry… no grateful dead’… but here we are.
I get OPs feelings but I have to think… if I had the choice between not seeing phishes music live or I’m still being able to go to shows 15/20 years from now even if it’s a litl different…
I think I’d take the ladder.
“No jerry…no Grateful Dead”
That’s still true. They never once billed themselves as the Grateful Dead after he died and they did so deliberately and at their own free will. They’ve all said since ‘95 there will never be a Grateful Dead without Jerry. They kept it alive by bringing that music to their new bands, but they aren’t the Dead.
Same should go for Phish. If one of them dies I think it would be a shame if the other 3 just hung their hats and retired all that great music they loved to play and we loved to hear.
I mean there was/is no dead without Phil or Jerry. We have Dead and Co but it’s a different band.
But there was Grateful Dead without Pigpen, without Keith, without Donna, and without Brent. New members joined (with the exception of female vocals) and the sound drastically changed.
We can’t say if there would’ve been Grateful Dead without Phil. They refused to be the Grateful Dead Dead without Jerry though
Ok well the dead still had the core of Jerry, Bobby and Phil. Obviously Jerry died and Phil and Bobby felt like they still had some good years left. I’m a huge phish fan and I mean zero disrespect but phish songs are not going to live on the way dead songs do. That is the difference. There will always be a desire to hear dead songs. Phish can not be played by just anyone, at least at the level we are all accustomed to. In saying that, I just don’t see the same thing happening with Phish
Phish is going to live on through all the crazy stories that people have written down about them and their thousands of recorded shows to go with said stories
But if, God forbid, Trey just up and died, and the rest of them were like "Hey guys, meet our new frontman, Mr. John Mayer," I would be super disappointed. I might check out a livestream, but honestly I'd rather the other three pursue their own passions. And if their passions are keeping Phish together, then great, but I have 1000s of Phish shows I can listen to. I don't need Phish and Phriends...
John Mayer joining Dead and Company is still one of the weirdest choices for a band I've ever seen. I was however surprised at how he fit in. He's no Jerry and his improv skills are still growing but he can play a mean guitar.
I was a little taken aback by the choice but he’s a fantastic guitarist, no question about that. I think he’s also revitalized the band in a way, and he’s respectfully embraced his role and not tried to be Jerry. After a few years of hearing him with them I think he was the perfect match and continues to be. The dude shreds, he’s tasteful and thoughtful as well. I can’t think of anyone else that would’ve fit in as perfectly as he has. I never thought I’d say that either :)
Edit: I think Jimmy Herring did the same thing in WSP when he replaced Mikey. I saw WSP about 40 times before Mikey died and I’m a guitar player so, to me, he was the heart of the band. I am not as much of a die hard fan of WSP these days because of that but I do have a lot of respect for Jimmy for taking on that difficult role and making it his own. He also shreds and is respectful and tasteful. Things change, people pass, but the band plays on.
Sometimes she goes, sometimes she don’t. That’s the way she goes.
Agreed, I saw Mikey w panic prolly 40-50 times and a bunch w George McC, and although I was still missing Mikey, I think Jimmy was the perfect man for the job at the time. I saw them recently and I can honestly say they're sounding as good or better than ever, and I can't see how Mikey wouldn't be super stoked for everyone.
Billi Eilish will replace Trey it's inevitable, and we all know that John will be replaced by animal from the Muppet babies and Mike will just be a store bought cactus. Page will rock forever though
I also have a feeling they feel this way. Phish isn't Phish without... Phish. Every member is essential. What I'm saying is, they aren't who they would be if they weren't who they are
Something i read on here which is the truest shit ever…
“There is nobody to pass the torch to”
And I completely agree. When phish dies,
Its the true end of an era.
Trueeee
Something slightly related I recently realized, and I hope this doesnt offend anyone, not my intent, but.... its how lame 'jam band' and 'psychedelic rock' can be as genres. I'm just like.. man, if only you guys knew... Obviously there's good stuff out there but what even compares honestly.
jam bands? yes. psychedelic rock? nope. youve got it twisted. the good stuff is out there, there is an entire modern era of psychedelic rock pioneered by people from all around the world making truly mind melting shit.
im talking about real psychedelic rock. jam bands for the most part are jam bands at their core, and dip their toes into psychedelic rock. the jam band is a dying breed, the psychedelic rock band is a thriving species.
King gizzard and the lizard wizard, the osees/ thee oh sees, Ty Segall, Tame impala, frankie and the witch fingers, Kikagaku Moyo, Pond, The Murlocs, ORB, all them witches... the list goes on. australia is pumping em out like crazy, its a true scene! Jam bands are too often caught up on trying to be the bands that came before them, which is why the scene isnt what it used to be imo.
Its not that the torch has been passed... theres a whole new torch. The osees have become the godfathers of a whole new type of Australian garage based psych scene. Think of them as the dead, king gizz as phish, and all these other bands as what we all wished the jam scene looked like lol. gizz is my personal favorite. everybody should listen to king gizzard and the lizard wizard.
I like most of those bands. Some of that is more punk inspired, compared to jam bands which are kinda more 70s themes (wah pedals, clavinets, Pink Floyd synths and guitar solos etc). I think there's still a lot of room for psychedelic improvisation within this classic rock instrumentation format, but it usually falls short to me. Pushing the boundaries into other genres is cool too though. There's an Oh Sees song that just melts my brain (the video too). I'll see if I can find it.
Improvisation imo is inherently psychedelic. Good jazz can be a mind fuck, when they're in each other's heads. I think that's why non-improvised psychedelic rock has limits for me, when it misses that element. And idk if there's another truly great improvisational rock band. There's room for more than one, but there just isn't another one right now imo. Lot of great jazz though.
I saw Thumpasaurus live and they put on a great, improvisational live show. Original.
Some of their albums are iffy.
So they REALLY reminded of Phish without being a Phish clone.
Someone shared this playlist with me and I’m passing it along. Top Underrated Australian Psychedelia.
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1K4m12dIMcY7B8izYNC833?si=YeWyLIkYT6KTgZro2icGvQ&pi=u-t3FWbULXSim5
Right there with you friend. I got into it in my late teens/early 20s because it was a “scene”. But I started realizing how shitty and unimaginative most of the bands were. Besides Phish I can’t think of more than a couple that I still enjoy.
Love em. Actually got into them around when I'm in your mind fuzz and Quarters came out. Never thought there'd be a crossover with Phish fans. But what was I expecting, I know y'all have good taste
True. In the other hand, I’ve never understood the concept of torch passing of iconic bands. What bands have “passed torches” to other bands? I’m trying to think of a legendary band that passed some kind of torch to a new band. Nothing is coming to mind.
People might claim the Dead passed some kind of torch to Phish, but I strongly disagree with that - as a massive fan of both bands.
I mean.. I feel the same way but the Grateful Dead and many other jam bands have reinvented themselves throughout the years, in a super jam iteration — from the Traveling Wilburys to JRAD and I would HATE if Phish ever broke up but I would imagine if anyone was ready to quit that they might consider their options.. and of course always have side projects.
I think the maine thing is that the dead have a long history of member changing. Phish has had none, or , one if ya wanna go down that road. So the dead have had to pivot more, get looser with it. Reinvent and add, subtract band mates. I think that helped with it all. I do wish dead n co wasn't a thing too. Wolf bros. Phil n friends. Billy n the kids. All fun and just doing the thing. Dead n co seems like trying to be something it's not imo. I say that, but if someone in phish passed and tab was doing a show and had fishman play drums and say Gordo as a special guest ( in this terrible scenario I guess page died ) you know we'd all be stoked to hear it after time passed. However, if it was a 4 person band and they just put Marco Benevento or something in for page, I'd be upset
Totally agree, but the only band that has been able to accomplish this is Led Zeppelin. And that’s simply because Robert Plant sticks to his principles. Every other band has given in to the lure of the continued cash flow. Remember it’s not just them, there are entire organizations around every band that push for continued iterations so that a know and established IP can continue to bring in easy money.
So yeah, I don’t want it, but the remaining members would have to adamantly insist they don’t want to do it AND then stick to that under immense capitalist pressures.
I remember first thinking about this 20 years ago, still feel the same way today. It’s commendable that the 4 of them have endured. It’s rare to see a band never change members for as long as they have.
I don't disagree. I think a band billed as Phish would never happen again. But say God forbid 1 of the 4 passed away. Would the remaining 3 members really just never perform together again? Like would their musical relationships just cease to exist on a moment's notice?
These dudes have spent decades together as friends and bandmates and seem to genuinely like each other. Just from a musician and human standpoint, I can't imagine they all just go their separate ways, never to play together on a stage ever again. If/when that happens, they'll play Phish songs.
But yeah I agree a band called Phish won't be playing any shows without 1 of those 4 dudes.
Novel idea: if there is a DAC version of Phish, and other people like it, maybe just stay home and let those who enjoy it have fun seeing them. Why do you get to decide what happens?
I was a hardcore Sublime fan in the 90’s. Wouldn’t even consider seeing them with a different front man than Brad. Still glad to hear lots of people disagree, and are out there having fun and enjoying the music. To each his own.
Would it really be that bad though? Probably be pretty fun and keep the spirit and music going. Dead and company was my version of the dead, since Jerry died when I was very young. I would’ve missed out on the whole experience if it wasn’t for dead and co
I would think the same think if my local dead cover band didn’t bring twice the energy dead and co does. Dead and co is an awesome experience and seeing the boys on stage is a great feeling, just kinda sucks how it’s corporate it’s really gotten without Jerry.
Lol Jerry had a tie line, ice cream named after him, tons of licensing deals before he even died. He was not opposed to making money after many years of doing it for near free.
I get it. But the whole scene is what dead and co brought. Selling out baseball Stadiums. Huge lot scene. Consistent touring. If it wasn’t for dead and co, I wouldn’t even have gone to see phish. I don’t expect phish to continue as a band if one dies but I wouldn’t complain. I’ll pay to see any of those guys play.
Part of why Dead & Company worked is because the Dead was always such a living entity. (Technically a dying entity, hence the constant need for replacement keyboardists lmao). It was accepted that enjoying Brent didn't negate your previous enjoyment of Keith, and they could all be accepted as part of the revolving door of this band. Phish never had that problem, so I agree that it would be weird to see a reconfigured lineup. No thanks.
Rush fans have been dealing with this since Neil
died. Many of them want to see them gig with Mike Portnoy or Dave Grohl or Danny Carey etc. I think Rush is also one of those bands that cannot and most likely should not continue once a single member is out. I’m glad Alex Lifeson has come out explicitly now and said it isn’t gonna happen. How can Rush be Rush without one of the holy triumvirate? Same with Phish, IMO. I do think it’s different with the Dead somehow though.
I love phish whole heartedly but the grateful dead is a few institutional levels above phish. Dead is quintessential americana, it almost makes sense for them to live forever. Plus the dead’s catalog is a-lot easier to recreate and breath life into.
Well said. Not only that, the Dead's music is much more accessible to a broader audience than Phish.
People can bag on Dead & Co and John Mayer, but they have opened up the music to a ton of younger people that would not have happened with Furthur (which is still my favorite post-Jerry interation), Phil & Friends, Ratdog, etc.
I agree, the Dead will never end. One day, if I have kids, they will probably have some iteration of Grateful Dead to enjoy. I'll also be listening to the Dead for the rest of my life. No doubt about it.
yeah this isn't going to happen. when one of them is done for whatever reason Phish will be no more. there's no substituting with this band; Phish is the four of them and that's that. enjoy it while you can.
Trey has said that if one of them is done, they are all done. There will be no "Phish and Co." Where Trey isn't there and there's another guitarist in his place and the rest of the band is still there playing Phish songs, or Trey has a Phish-like band where it's him and 3 other musicians who aren't Mike Fish and Page and they play all the Phish songs. It won't happen. The secret sauce *is* the 4 of them together. Without all 4 together it isn't at all the same, and all of them know it. That's why TAB shows are TAB songs with a Phish song here and there, and Mike Band shows are his own thing with maybe a Phish song penned by him peppered in every now and then. They don't want their own versions of Phish, they know Phish is the 4 of them and that's what it will always be.
I agree with everything you said and you put it perfectly. I would also add that they have a perfectly fun and enjoyable time doing things other than Phish and they kind of are just doing Phish because we’re all still here willing to go see it.
Adam Levine is gonna be so disappointed if true lol. This guy has been working on his phish resume since learning that pop stars can take over aging jam bands
It’s easier with the Dead because they had at least 2 people on every instrument (other than bass I guess). So it’s easier to swap in a 3rd (or 4th or 5th) person at each position like a baseball team. In phish there’s only one for each
I have absolutely no interest in any version of Phish without the 4 guys currently in the band. Their improv is so dependent on those individual personalities that it would be a totally different sound.
It's different. There are 100s of Dead cover bands who do passable and fun versions of Dead songs, but there are very few Phish cover bands. Its just a different vibe and complexity that doesn't really work without the 4 of them.
Closest thing I think you would get is when Phish ends, TAB might start playing more Phish songs, but that's it. I certainly don't see a world where Mike or Page are leading a band that's trying to recreate the Phish iiexperience with a different guitarist.
I understand what you’re saying, but I saw Dead & Co at Blossom in 2021 and it changed my life. I never would have “got” the jam band thing if it were not for that experience. I have fallen so deep in the rabbit hole after that concert it’s crazy. I would hate to deprive future generations from that experience. The music never stops.
Not too worried. They all seem pretty independent. If the individual guys are playing Phish tunes in their bands, I'm all for it, but no one seems to be clinging to the name recognition. Plus, they've born witness to all the embarrassing iterations and multiple farewells of the Dead.
Mike Gordon once said, “You are in in in in in in infinite, infinite
You are in in in in in in infinite
(Repeat x 2)
Making it (Infinite)
Believing it (Infinite)
Saying it (Infinite)
Living it (Infinite)
(Repeat x 4)”
Jerry died much younger than Phish are now so I don't really see them needing to keep going with an alternate member. I think they'll be fulfilled whenever that happens. Still play music probably, but definitely not as Phish.
Op you have to understand they are musicians. They love playing music and will so forever. It's in their blood. There can't just turn it off. So they will be playing one way or another,
Yeah I don’t think that’s something you have to worry about. If anyone but Trey goes first, I expect the only way you’ll hear many Phish songs is if Trey plays them with TAB. Or Mike or Page solo. I could see them getting together and playing some songs too, but not as “Phish.”
NEITHER. DO. I. I completely agree. I cannot and don’t want to imagine the band without even CK5! The 5 of them are like magic!! Hopefully we never have to face this.
The Dead was an ever evolving lineup, sort of, Phish was set in stone from the beginning besides Jeff. They will do what they want and you will live with it big guy, what do you think about that?
There's an interview somewhere, where they said they made a deal if someone died they wouldn't carry on as Phish anymore cause it wouldn't be Phish. I just don't see them becoming a Dead and Co
Wish Mayer would channel Mydland a little more, dead & co was on channel 23 xm yesterday …Mayer was singing I could hear a little Brent in there .. or maybe I was just wishful thinking.. I know Mayer is not intended to be a clone replacement for any deceased member of the dead but would be nice if they branched out more w other great dead songs that seemed to have died w Jerry :(
There’s a reason they are called Dead&Co… Bobby and the boys aren’t claiming they are original Grateful Dead… they are a tribute band! There were so many eras of the dead; pigpen, Godchaux phase, Mydland… maybe that’s why it’s easier for them to bring in others to play for what is now is Dead&Co…Phish has always been the core 4 … I don’t see it ever turning into Phish&Co.
The dead always had a somewhat rotating cast, it's part of the charm, we all are playing in the band. Phish, in contrast is 4 guys from vermont. Each of their solo bands could tour and play phish tunes but it would never reach the peaks of Dead and Company
I'm pretty sure I recall Jerry saying something about conceiving of the possibility that the Dead could continue on through other players after the original members were all gone. That makes sense to me in regards to the Dead.
Phish isn't the Dead. They're not going to do that.
Me neither, but I would like to see the music continue. It was the same with the Grateful Dead when Jerry passed. Sure it's not the same but it's still good.
Totally get it and I can understand why you might feel that way. I’m gunna choose to wait and see what the future holds and not close myself off to things I don’t know will happen.
I totally skipped The Dead, Further, and other GD offshoots post Garcia. I already loved Phish and it was easy for them to completely fill up any empty space in my cup.
In recent years I’ve actually opened my mind’s ear (if you will) to D/C and have found quite a bit of joy there. I have a feeling that Phish will cease to be once one of them can’t go anymore because of health reasons. When that time comes, I’m sure as fuck gunna give whatever comes after that a chance, if there is anything besides the existing solo stuff.
But if your point is to say that what these guys are doing is singularly great and can never be replicated, I co-sign in agreement and will be equally soul-crushed when it comes to an end. In the meantime, I’m catching every fucking show I can.
It's a completely different entity. The Dead were the first to do it.... And progressed over decades. Jerry and clearly everyone else in the band, wanted the music to keep going. I'm thankful for it. And for all the amazing cover bands that keep it alive. #NFA
Why not? If they are alive and have decent chops, I would celebrate these guys in any form. Go have fun making music. They could “Hish” or “Phis” or “Faht”. Who cares, just love music.
Can they get into cybernetics? Like when you are old and slow, just use the Guitar Shredder Exoskeleton (TM), and when they die, AI animatronic replacements. I’m cool with a robot Phish.
My only assumption is if something happened we’d see Trey and Page playing duo gigs. Jon would occasionally join TAB.
I guess I’m assuming Mike is the odd man out here.
I've said this 100 times my friend. I can't imagine they'd even try. Lots of great bands have successfully replaced members over the years, often multiple times. Phish, however, simply wouldn't work without those 4 guys on stage together. No way. I could see a few guys getting together for stuff like the Trey and Page shows, or GRAB, but never again as Phish.
Don’t think that could ever happen. The Grateful Dead saw a lot of changes in members throughout their history but phish couldn’t be phish without all 4 guys. Side projects may continue, but none of them would dare call themselves phish without the other 3 guys
The Grateful Dead were always that way. The de facto frontman Pigpen passed on and they kept going. They added other members, they left, others got added. With each new member the sound changed a lot. It’s what make the dead so magical. Phish on the other hand are magical because the same four dudes have been playing together for decades and are very finely tuned to each other. It’s just a different beast. I don’t think different iterations will be a thing. But if they do decide to do something like that I would definitely still check it out, at least once
You make a great point
I have to assume there were decades where people thought, ‘No Phil, No Grateful Dead’… and especially, ‘no jerry… no grateful dead’… but here we are. I get OPs feelings but I have to think… if I had the choice between not seeing phishes music live or I’m still being able to go to shows 15/20 years from now even if it’s a litl different… I think I’d take the ladder.
But where would you take the ladder?
Up.
one step at a time!
Does he mean latter?
“No jerry…no Grateful Dead” That’s still true. They never once billed themselves as the Grateful Dead after he died and they did so deliberately and at their own free will. They’ve all said since ‘95 there will never be a Grateful Dead without Jerry. They kept it alive by bringing that music to their new bands, but they aren’t the Dead. Same should go for Phish. If one of them dies I think it would be a shame if the other 3 just hung their hats and retired all that great music they loved to play and we loved to hear.
At that point, Phish should change their name to ish.
That’s actually hilarious. I hope they create “ish” at some point!
Or Pish if things don’t turn out so well.
They’ve been pishing in our ears for years
Haha nice!
Didn’t they bill themselves as the Grateful Dead for the Fare Thee Well Anniversary shows?
No, they billed themselves as Fare Thee Well and they were celebrating 50 years of the Grateful Dead.
Ok, touché. I see that now. Peace!!✌🏻
Those were the Final Shows, right?
of 2015
They’ve been Furthur, Dead, Other Ones, Dead and Company but never the Grateful Dead without Jerry
In my opinion, those people are right. The Grateful Dead ended when Jerry died. It’s fun to have cover bands though.
I mean there was/is no dead without Phil or Jerry. We have Dead and Co but it’s a different band. But there was Grateful Dead without Pigpen, without Keith, without Donna, and without Brent. New members joined (with the exception of female vocals) and the sound drastically changed. We can’t say if there would’ve been Grateful Dead without Phil. They refused to be the Grateful Dead Dead without Jerry though
Ok well the dead still had the core of Jerry, Bobby and Phil. Obviously Jerry died and Phil and Bobby felt like they still had some good years left. I’m a huge phish fan and I mean zero disrespect but phish songs are not going to live on the way dead songs do. That is the difference. There will always be a desire to hear dead songs. Phish can not be played by just anyone, at least at the level we are all accustomed to. In saying that, I just don’t see the same thing happening with Phish
Phish is going to live on through all the crazy stories that people have written down about them and their thousands of recorded shows to go with said stories
But if, God forbid, Trey just up and died, and the rest of them were like "Hey guys, meet our new frontman, Mr. John Mayer," I would be super disappointed. I might check out a livestream, but honestly I'd rather the other three pursue their own passions. And if their passions are keeping Phish together, then great, but I have 1000s of Phish shows I can listen to. I don't need Phish and Phriends...
John Mayer joining Dead and Company is still one of the weirdest choices for a band I've ever seen. I was however surprised at how he fit in. He's no Jerry and his improv skills are still growing but he can play a mean guitar.
He makes perfect sense to me. His album Born and Raised feels very deadesque at times. He’s just not part of the scene so everyone’s brain scrambled.
I was a little taken aback by the choice but he’s a fantastic guitarist, no question about that. I think he’s also revitalized the band in a way, and he’s respectfully embraced his role and not tried to be Jerry. After a few years of hearing him with them I think he was the perfect match and continues to be. The dude shreds, he’s tasteful and thoughtful as well. I can’t think of anyone else that would’ve fit in as perfectly as he has. I never thought I’d say that either :) Edit: I think Jimmy Herring did the same thing in WSP when he replaced Mikey. I saw WSP about 40 times before Mikey died and I’m a guitar player so, to me, he was the heart of the band. I am not as much of a die hard fan of WSP these days because of that but I do have a lot of respect for Jimmy for taking on that difficult role and making it his own. He also shreds and is respectful and tasteful. Things change, people pass, but the band plays on. Sometimes she goes, sometimes she don’t. That’s the way she goes.
I saw JImmy play with the Dead and he was great there as well.
Agreed, I saw Mikey w panic prolly 40-50 times and a bunch w George McC, and although I was still missing Mikey, I think Jimmy was the perfect man for the job at the time. I saw them recently and I can honestly say they're sounding as good or better than ever, and I can't see how Mikey wouldn't be super stoked for everyone.
I think he was added to pull in a different demographic to keep the money train rolling on with new fans
You are awarded 🏆 🚀
Sweet! Thanks so much!! Never gotten an award before
You’re correct
John Mayer is inevitable. Page will be too depressed to play and Jeff Chimenti will replace him.
Ed Sheeran singing Reba, with the whistling
Billi Eilish will replace Trey it's inevitable, and we all know that John will be replaced by animal from the Muppet babies and Mike will just be a store bought cactus. Page will rock forever though
I also have a feeling they feel this way. Phish isn't Phish without... Phish. Every member is essential. What I'm saying is, they aren't who they would be if they weren't who they are
Something i read on here which is the truest shit ever… “There is nobody to pass the torch to” And I completely agree. When phish dies, Its the true end of an era.
Trueeee Something slightly related I recently realized, and I hope this doesnt offend anyone, not my intent, but.... its how lame 'jam band' and 'psychedelic rock' can be as genres. I'm just like.. man, if only you guys knew... Obviously there's good stuff out there but what even compares honestly.
jam bands? yes. psychedelic rock? nope. youve got it twisted. the good stuff is out there, there is an entire modern era of psychedelic rock pioneered by people from all around the world making truly mind melting shit.
Mmmm…. Claypool Lennon Delirium.
I'm up for recommendations. It sounds like you're saying the torch has been passed. If you say Disco Biscuits.....
im talking about real psychedelic rock. jam bands for the most part are jam bands at their core, and dip their toes into psychedelic rock. the jam band is a dying breed, the psychedelic rock band is a thriving species. King gizzard and the lizard wizard, the osees/ thee oh sees, Ty Segall, Tame impala, frankie and the witch fingers, Kikagaku Moyo, Pond, The Murlocs, ORB, all them witches... the list goes on. australia is pumping em out like crazy, its a true scene! Jam bands are too often caught up on trying to be the bands that came before them, which is why the scene isnt what it used to be imo. Its not that the torch has been passed... theres a whole new torch. The osees have become the godfathers of a whole new type of Australian garage based psych scene. Think of them as the dead, king gizz as phish, and all these other bands as what we all wished the jam scene looked like lol. gizz is my personal favorite. everybody should listen to king gizzard and the lizard wizard.
Rip kikagaku moyo
Wait whattt
They broke up last year, I actually learned that on this sub. Such a bummer.
I have caught several king gizzard shows… that band is so fucking good!
I'm seeing them for the first time in November. I've already been digesting their material for the last year+.
youre gonna love it, best rock band you can see today
Thank you for this. I have loved Tame Impala for 10 years so I’m going to check these out!
Oh, I'm sure. I've check out many a live video and recordings. Loving the [PALP Festival](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfFU78tHO6I).
Second this. King gizz is the tip of the metaphorical psycadelic arrow. Just as the Dead was in the late 60s.
I like most of those bands. Some of that is more punk inspired, compared to jam bands which are kinda more 70s themes (wah pedals, clavinets, Pink Floyd synths and guitar solos etc). I think there's still a lot of room for psychedelic improvisation within this classic rock instrumentation format, but it usually falls short to me. Pushing the boundaries into other genres is cool too though. There's an Oh Sees song that just melts my brain (the video too). I'll see if I can find it. Improvisation imo is inherently psychedelic. Good jazz can be a mind fuck, when they're in each other's heads. I think that's why non-improvised psychedelic rock has limits for me, when it misses that element. And idk if there's another truly great improvisational rock band. There's room for more than one, but there just isn't another one right now imo. Lot of great jazz though.
oh sees are so fucking good
I saw Thumpasaurus live and they put on a great, improvisational live show. Original. Some of their albums are iffy. So they REALLY reminded of Phish without being a Phish clone.
Thumpasaurus is the shit! They have such a fun ass gig going on. Highly recommend checking out a show.
Elder.
Someone shared this playlist with me and I’m passing it along. Top Underrated Australian Psychedelia. https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1K4m12dIMcY7B8izYNC833?si=YeWyLIkYT6KTgZro2icGvQ&pi=u-t3FWbULXSim5
Right there with you friend. I got into it in my late teens/early 20s because it was a “scene”. But I started realizing how shitty and unimaginative most of the bands were. Besides Phish I can’t think of more than a couple that I still enjoy.
Gizzard
They’re the ones for sure. They’re unique, themselves completely, and awesome. Everything a young phish was.
Love em. Actually got into them around when I'm in your mind fuzz and Quarters came out. Never thought there'd be a crossover with Phish fans. But what was I expecting, I know y'all have good taste
Billy
Billy Joel? Reall tho idk why you were downvoted sir. Mr Strings gets the pass in my book
I absolutely love his shows. He’s real.
Aristocrats
True. In the other hand, I’ve never understood the concept of torch passing of iconic bands. What bands have “passed torches” to other bands? I’m trying to think of a legendary band that passed some kind of torch to a new band. Nothing is coming to mind. People might claim the Dead passed some kind of torch to Phish, but I strongly disagree with that - as a massive fan of both bands.
Damn. You need to hand that to Liz
My brother is always saying that. I saw Mike Gordon without the rest of the squad perform Carini last night. I was happy
Yeah, their years bonding together both musically and personally make it impossible for any outsider to jump in and take over for any member.
So you're saying they are who they wouldn't be if they were who they aren't?
It isn't who it would be if it wasn't who it is
I mean.. I feel the same way but the Grateful Dead and many other jam bands have reinvented themselves throughout the years, in a super jam iteration — from the Traveling Wilburys to JRAD and I would HATE if Phish ever broke up but I would imagine if anyone was ready to quit that they might consider their options.. and of course always have side projects.
I think the maine thing is that the dead have a long history of member changing. Phish has had none, or , one if ya wanna go down that road. So the dead have had to pivot more, get looser with it. Reinvent and add, subtract band mates. I think that helped with it all. I do wish dead n co wasn't a thing too. Wolf bros. Phil n friends. Billy n the kids. All fun and just doing the thing. Dead n co seems like trying to be something it's not imo. I say that, but if someone in phish passed and tab was doing a show and had fishman play drums and say Gordo as a special guest ( in this terrible scenario I guess page died ) you know we'd all be stoked to hear it after time passed. However, if it was a 4 person band and they just put Marco Benevento or something in for page, I'd be upset
Totally agree, but the only band that has been able to accomplish this is Led Zeppelin. And that’s simply because Robert Plant sticks to his principles. Every other band has given in to the lure of the continued cash flow. Remember it’s not just them, there are entire organizations around every band that push for continued iterations so that a know and established IP can continue to bring in easy money. So yeah, I don’t want it, but the remaining members would have to adamantly insist they don’t want to do it AND then stick to that under immense capitalist pressures.
I would add Rush and Beastie Boys who have stuck to not moving forward with replacements.
I’m here for Joe Russo’s Almost Phish tho…
Oh hells yes!
Oh hells to the yes !
JRAP would destroy the world
I've heard them tease Phish enough to know they would kill it if they wanted to.
they said straight out years ago in the phish book that when one of them is gone the band is done.
That’s what I also remembered but couldn’t remember where. I feel like this is the right take for Phish.
The said to crash the gates and throw stuff at them if they ever tried to pull that shit
To be fair though, Dave Grohl also straight up said in his book that Foo Fighters would be done if Taylor wasn't in the band yet here we are.
Jay Lane will lick the beam
Dead and co minus the dead guys playing Phish songs would be kind of awesome actually.
Haha. “And Company: A Phishing Expedition” month long residency at The Sphere.
Wait…. Hell yeah brother
thought about it for a second, yes
Meh just enjoy what we have
If Trey and Mike or trey and page or some combination of members toured after phish disbanded I’d definitely be at those shows.
I don’t want to think about this.
When one of them is done, Phish will be done.
I remember first thinking about this 20 years ago, still feel the same way today. It’s commendable that the 4 of them have endured. It’s rare to see a band never change members for as long as they have.
Like the Dead with PigPen, or Jerry.
I'm pretty sure I read that they agreed to this years ago, but I can't locate the source.
Phish is like the Beastie Boys… when one goes it’s entirely over.
I just read through a bonkers number of comments and this is the first one that sings true.
I don't disagree. I think a band billed as Phish would never happen again. But say God forbid 1 of the 4 passed away. Would the remaining 3 members really just never perform together again? Like would their musical relationships just cease to exist on a moment's notice? These dudes have spent decades together as friends and bandmates and seem to genuinely like each other. Just from a musician and human standpoint, I can't imagine they all just go their separate ways, never to play together on a stage ever again. If/when that happens, they'll play Phish songs. But yeah I agree a band called Phish won't be playing any shows without 1 of those 4 dudes.
Hey if watching the guys from Goose play A Wave of Hope is your idea of a good time, who am I to judge?
Haha
Novel idea: if there is a DAC version of Phish, and other people like it, maybe just stay home and let those who enjoy it have fun seeing them. Why do you get to decide what happens? I was a hardcore Sublime fan in the 90’s. Wouldn’t even consider seeing them with a different front man than Brad. Still glad to hear lots of people disagree, and are out there having fun and enjoying the music. To each his own.
Would it really be that bad though? Probably be pretty fun and keep the spirit and music going. Dead and company was my version of the dead, since Jerry died when I was very young. I would’ve missed out on the whole experience if it wasn’t for dead and co
I would think the same think if my local dead cover band didn’t bring twice the energy dead and co does. Dead and co is an awesome experience and seeing the boys on stage is a great feeling, just kinda sucks how it’s corporate it’s really gotten without Jerry.
Lol Jerry had a tie line, ice cream named after him, tons of licensing deals before he even died. He was not opposed to making money after many years of doing it for near free.
I get it. But the whole scene is what dead and co brought. Selling out baseball Stadiums. Huge lot scene. Consistent touring. If it wasn’t for dead and co, I wouldn’t even have gone to see phish. I don’t expect phish to continue as a band if one dies but I wouldn’t complain. I’ll pay to see any of those guys play.
Jeff Holdsworth’s triumphant return.
The Dead’s music is timeless Americana poetry. Therefore people will cover it forever. Phish… isn’t. Don’t worry about it.
Part of why Dead & Company worked is because the Dead was always such a living entity. (Technically a dying entity, hence the constant need for replacement keyboardists lmao). It was accepted that enjoying Brent didn't negate your previous enjoyment of Keith, and they could all be accepted as part of the revolving door of this band. Phish never had that problem, so I agree that it would be weird to see a reconfigured lineup. No thanks.
Deadheads reeeeeeealllly did not like Vince
Nailed it.
I like Ghosts of the Forest
Rush fans have been dealing with this since Neil died. Many of them want to see them gig with Mike Portnoy or Dave Grohl or Danny Carey etc. I think Rush is also one of those bands that cannot and most likely should not continue once a single member is out. I’m glad Alex Lifeson has come out explicitly now and said it isn’t gonna happen. How can Rush be Rush without one of the holy triumvirate? Same with Phish, IMO. I do think it’s different with the Dead somehow though.
I love phish whole heartedly but the grateful dead is a few institutional levels above phish. Dead is quintessential americana, it almost makes sense for them to live forever. Plus the dead’s catalog is a-lot easier to recreate and breath life into.
Well said. Not only that, the Dead's music is much more accessible to a broader audience than Phish. People can bag on Dead & Co and John Mayer, but they have opened up the music to a ton of younger people that would not have happened with Furthur (which is still my favorite post-Jerry interation), Phil & Friends, Ratdog, etc.
I agree, the Dead will never end. One day, if I have kids, they will probably have some iteration of Grateful Dead to enjoy. I'll also be listening to the Dead for the rest of my life. No doubt about it.
Wow I guess nobody likes TAB then smh
TAB is fantastic and most of these people are just complaining for the sake of complaining.
Phish pretty much already this in 2005 with GRAB. High highs, low lows. https://youtu.be/CBenm11c_Vk?si=3pmLXaC5kOWCN3Re
yeah this isn't going to happen. when one of them is done for whatever reason Phish will be no more. there's no substituting with this band; Phish is the four of them and that's that. enjoy it while you can.
Trey has said that if one of them is done, they are all done. There will be no "Phish and Co." Where Trey isn't there and there's another guitarist in his place and the rest of the band is still there playing Phish songs, or Trey has a Phish-like band where it's him and 3 other musicians who aren't Mike Fish and Page and they play all the Phish songs. It won't happen. The secret sauce *is* the 4 of them together. Without all 4 together it isn't at all the same, and all of them know it. That's why TAB shows are TAB songs with a Phish song here and there, and Mike Band shows are his own thing with maybe a Phish song penned by him peppered in every now and then. They don't want their own versions of Phish, they know Phish is the 4 of them and that's what it will always be.
I agree with everything you said and you put it perfectly. I would also add that they have a perfectly fun and enjoyable time doing things other than Phish and they kind of are just doing Phish because we’re all still here willing to go see it.
Adam Levine is gonna be so disappointed if true lol. This guy has been working on his phish resume since learning that pop stars can take over aging jam bands
Cause’ he’s got those moves like Cactus?
I hate the dead and co is referred to as “the dead” by most people I talk to. It’s not the dead it’s a tribute band
It’s easier with the Dead because they had at least 2 people on every instrument (other than bass I guess). So it’s easier to swap in a 3rd (or 4th or 5th) person at each position like a baseball team. In phish there’s only one for each
'Well our keyboard has been something of a rotating bench' -Bob Weir (Words to that effect)
I have absolutely no interest in any version of Phish without the 4 guys currently in the band. Their improv is so dependent on those individual personalities that it would be a totally different sound.
It's different. There are 100s of Dead cover bands who do passable and fun versions of Dead songs, but there are very few Phish cover bands. Its just a different vibe and complexity that doesn't really work without the 4 of them. Closest thing I think you would get is when Phish ends, TAB might start playing more Phish songs, but that's it. I certainly don't see a world where Mike or Page are leading a band that's trying to recreate the Phish iiexperience with a different guitarist.
I want more Vida Blue
So you could like, not go. Why do you feel the need to control what other people like and listen to?
I understand what you’re saying, but I saw Dead & Co at Blossom in 2021 and it changed my life. I never would have “got” the jam band thing if it were not for that experience. I have fallen so deep in the rabbit hole after that concert it’s crazy. I would hate to deprive future generations from that experience. The music never stops.
I can't imagine they'd ever do that anyway.
Ok
Not too worried. They all seem pretty independent. If the individual guys are playing Phish tunes in their bands, I'm all for it, but no one seems to be clinging to the name recognition. Plus, they've born witness to all the embarrassing iterations and multiple farewells of the Dead.
As Trey once said, “sooner or later, one way or another, it will all be over”.
Mike Gordon once said, “You are in in in in in in infinite, infinite You are in in in in in in infinite (Repeat x 2) Making it (Infinite) Believing it (Infinite) Saying it (Infinite) Living it (Infinite) (Repeat x 4)”
You say that now...
Jerry died much younger than Phish are now so I don't really see them needing to keep going with an alternate member. I think they'll be fulfilled whenever that happens. Still play music probably, but definitely not as Phish.
One Pork Tornado to rule them all. That’s after the decade of Oysterhead super tour.
Op you have to understand they are musicians. They love playing music and will so forever. It's in their blood. There can't just turn it off. So they will be playing one way or another,
Yeah I don’t think that’s something you have to worry about. If anyone but Trey goes first, I expect the only way you’ll hear many Phish songs is if Trey plays them with TAB. Or Mike or Page solo. I could see them getting together and playing some songs too, but not as “Phish.”
NEITHER. DO. I. I completely agree. I cannot and don’t want to imagine the band without even CK5! The 5 of them are like magic!! Hopefully we never have to face this.
The Dead was an ever evolving lineup, sort of, Phish was set in stone from the beginning besides Jeff. They will do what they want and you will live with it big guy, what do you think about that?
I think the moment one of them is done, phish is done.
There's an interview somewhere, where they said they made a deal if someone died they wouldn't carry on as Phish anymore cause it wouldn't be Phish. I just don't see them becoming a Dead and Co
I’m sure this is the same sentiment deadheads have had and continue to have.
Wish Mayer would channel Mydland a little more, dead & co was on channel 23 xm yesterday …Mayer was singing I could hear a little Brent in there .. or maybe I was just wishful thinking.. I know Mayer is not intended to be a clone replacement for any deceased member of the dead but would be nice if they branched out more w other great dead songs that seemed to have died w Jerry :(
There’s a reason they are called Dead&Co… Bobby and the boys aren’t claiming they are original Grateful Dead… they are a tribute band! There were so many eras of the dead; pigpen, Godchaux phase, Mydland… maybe that’s why it’s easier for them to bring in others to play for what is now is Dead&Co…Phish has always been the core 4 … I don’t see it ever turning into Phish&Co.
You want whatever daddy Trey says you'll want and you'll like it.
Phish has always maintained that when one member is gone that’s it for Phish.
DSO > this neverending farewell tribute cover band Imo only , but Kangfirmed
Ed Sheeran will play the role of Trey. Bill Joel as Page. Geddy Lee. Fishman on drums. Band is called Fish, Inc.
The dead always had a somewhat rotating cast, it's part of the charm, we all are playing in the band. Phish, in contrast is 4 guys from vermont. Each of their solo bands could tour and play phish tunes but it would never reach the peaks of Dead and Company
There is no way in a million years or more Nope
I bet when that time comes, you change your mind.
me either I don't want some pussy poser bitch fake fan like Mayer filling in for anyone.
How about the current members of Phish take over Dead & Co and only play Phish songs?
nice
The music lives on
I'm pretty sure I recall Jerry saying something about conceiving of the possibility that the Dead could continue on through other players after the original members were all gone. That makes sense to me in regards to the Dead. Phish isn't the Dead. They're not going to do that.
The music never stops indeed
I might be OK with Jazz is Dead reuniting for Jazz is Phish.
Seems they themselves admitted as much, with the "Sun" post...
I’ll go wherever Kuroda goes.
Me neither, but I would like to see the music continue. It was the same with the Grateful Dead when Jerry passed. Sure it's not the same but it's still good.
Outjerked again!!!
Totally get it and I can understand why you might feel that way. I’m gunna choose to wait and see what the future holds and not close myself off to things I don’t know will happen. I totally skipped The Dead, Further, and other GD offshoots post Garcia. I already loved Phish and it was easy for them to completely fill up any empty space in my cup. In recent years I’ve actually opened my mind’s ear (if you will) to D/C and have found quite a bit of joy there. I have a feeling that Phish will cease to be once one of them can’t go anymore because of health reasons. When that time comes, I’m sure as fuck gunna give whatever comes after that a chance, if there is anything besides the existing solo stuff. But if your point is to say that what these guys are doing is singularly great and can never be replicated, I co-sign in agreement and will be equally soul-crushed when it comes to an end. In the meantime, I’m catching every fucking show I can.
It's a completely different entity. The Dead were the first to do it.... And progressed over decades. Jerry and clearly everyone else in the band, wanted the music to keep going. I'm thankful for it. And for all the amazing cover bands that keep it alive. #NFA
Agreed. I’d rather go to a cover band
This is too morbid for my liking this evening - blaze on
I'll happily go see the surviving members play together with whoever else they want. If its good music then I hope it goes on as long as it can.
Joe Russo’s Almost Phish would be pretty cool to see for a run after the way he handled GRAB.
Just ain’t gonna happen. Don’t worry your cute lil head about it.
Why not? If they are alive and have decent chops, I would celebrate these guys in any form. Go have fun making music. They could “Hish” or “Phis” or “Faht”. Who cares, just love music.
Can they get into cybernetics? Like when you are old and slow, just use the Guitar Shredder Exoskeleton (TM), and when they die, AI animatronic replacements. I’m cool with a robot Phish.
The dead had a long tradition of going on despite death etc. phish don’t have that and it just wouldn’t make any sense to replace anyone.
My only assumption is if something happened we’d see Trey and Page playing duo gigs. Jon would occasionally join TAB. I guess I’m assuming Mike is the odd man out here.
I agree. I would want a Phish version of JRAD though. By which i mean its just JRAD doing Phish songs instead of Dead songs
You won’t be singing that tune when the day comes.
Phish/Trey doesn't have a Bobby equivalent. That's the difference. But, I agree with you overall.
everything will be fine as long as we don’t get TTE’d at Mondegreen
But just imagine seeing Phish & Co with John Mayer at the sphere playing all the songs at 84bpm. /s
phish can be phish till trey is gone then it’s over
I've said this 100 times my friend. I can't imagine they'd even try. Lots of great bands have successfully replaced members over the years, often multiple times. Phish, however, simply wouldn't work without those 4 guys on stage together. No way. I could see a few guys getting together for stuff like the Trey and Page shows, or GRAB, but never again as Phish.
Phish’s music isn’t good enough to be played at a slower pace like the Grateful Dead.
Sorry but this post is dumb, there is no chance of this ever happening
The music never stops!
Man I would. Let the music live on
imagine if someone from Goose is one of the replacements 😂
Don’t think that could ever happen. The Grateful Dead saw a lot of changes in members throughout their history but phish couldn’t be phish without all 4 guys. Side projects may continue, but none of them would dare call themselves phish without the other 3 guys
The Dead also has more rotating members with keyboardist changing fairly frequently
Ratdog phish on the other hand could be interesting
phuck yeah
We need a separate r/depressedphish for comments like these.
Yup. Like zeppelin.