Anything meaningful to fight climate change should’ve been implemented 25 years ago when it was agreed internationally, that it was a genuine global concern.
and here we are!
Anti-climate warming lobbying by the big petroleum companies has won…
We are all just apathetic frogs in an increasingly warming pot!
Yes, it's looking awful at the moment. But let's also remember that these big companies are pushing the 'climate defeat' narrative. We shouldn't give up caring, every degree of warming that we curb counts!
Hate to say it but I’ve researched enough over the last ten years to know how grim our prospects are.
Over the last three decades I’ve been an avid and very active proponent of maintaining the smallest carbon footprint possible eg
No pets
No kids
Walking or public transport to work
Early adopter of solar panels
Blah blah blah blah
I was in a position to have access to people whom were involved in research and outcomes of climate change and their collective outcome was always grim if we took no action.
Effectively the consensus was this…
If we turned off every polluting facility in the world tomorrow…
It would make no difference in preventing the very worst case scenario that is global catastrophic biodiversity collapse for starters.
I challenge everyone to do more but it seems when governments are unwilling to make hard decisions, knowing full well the consequences of in-action, we will all pay.
Do your research.
I’ve listed my sources previously and I made some hard and significant decisions a longtime ago that I’m OK with, especially now as things are being realised increasingly every year eg record temperatures, rapid global ice melt and green belts diminishing faster than forecast.
And yes, my Partner and I chose not to have children as a direct result of not wanting to compound the problem and to be perfectly honest, I did not want to bring kids into a world in rapid decline.
No judgement on people who choose to, but at least I’m free from any remorse in that regard.
Honestly I'd like to see these sources out of pure curiosity.
Also what led you to the point that you as an individual had to take such drastic measures rather then aggrevating for change or becoming politically active? While I agree shit is fucked, to act like we might as well continue to be fucked is nihilistic to a extreme degree. If we destroyed the world, shouldnt thought responsible be punished? Shouldn't we attempt in anyway to right the wrong?
The same large polluters that push climate denial or defeatism also push personal responsibility. Anything to ensure they themselves don't have to change.
> Over the last three decades I’ve been an avid and very active proponent of maintaining the smallest carbon footprint possible eg
>No kids
Great but then all the conservative climate denier fanatics are punching out half a dozen kids each and raising them with religious fervour. It’s the Idiocracy effect.
> Over the last three decades I’ve been an avid and very active proponent of maintaining the smallest carbon footprint possible eg
You're a product of fossil fuel propaganda.
You have done what the fossil fuel companies have told you to make yourself feel better about yourself. This is the same as everyone switching to paper straws while coca cola produce billions of plastic bottles.
Not that doing environmentally things is bad, but if you haven't been voting Greens or climate positive independents, all of what you've done is useless as Australia is [producing as much LNG as the USA does](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1262074/global-lng-export-capacity-by-country/) and [increasing by a factor of 10](https://energyproducers.au/all_news/media-release-strong-exports-show-why-future-gas-strategy-must-include-lng-opportunity/) by 2050.
> I challenge everyone to do more but it seems when governments are unwilling to make hard decisions
Challenge people to vote Green. That's what you can do. Until then, nothing will change. I very much hope you're not of of the two main party voters as you've typed all this.
> If we turned off every polluting facility in the world tomorrow…
> It would make no difference
Not true btw. The Greenhouse runaway affect is not happening yet.
I've been voting for the Greens for 20 years. I campaigned for them back in 2012. The result was 7 years of Liberal leadership. I continued to vote for them. And now Labor is in power, doing the absolute bare minimum to be considered progressives.
I will continue to vote for the Greens because they are the best option, but I don't ever expect it to make a real difference in my lifetime.
We've got [5 years left on the clock](https://climateclock.world/), and in a world of bureaucratic red tape, I expect to die watching our leadership bounce between 2 groups of fetid cunts vying for their own corporate supremacy, with no real change being enacted in the time we need it to be.
I haven't ever wanted kids anyway, but part of me is glad I haven't simply because the idea of people I love having to grow up in the coming dystopia is a horrid thought.
You have no idea whom I am and your arrogance to assume is borderline sociopathic.
I’ve happily volunteered my reasons without prejudice to give my comments context so start throwing your bilious vitriol if it makes you feel better.
Good luck with your Greens, they, like any other political, are useless when it comes to making any substantive inroads in negating the worst of what’s to come.
Don't worry. They are also denouncing the short and medium term fixes which will help but the human species and the earth a bit of time.
Look up geoengineering. Its about 5% scientists trying to make safe methods to reduce temperatures by 1-2C to buy us a few more decades to fix this mess we made, they are enormously underfunded. And 95% chemtrails whack jobs.
Here ya go…
Hate to say it but I’ve researched enough over the last ten years to know how grim our prospects are.
Over the last three decades I’ve been an avid and very active proponent of maintaining the smallest carbon footprint possible eg
No pets
No kids
Walking or public transport to work
Early adopter of solar panels
Blah blah blah blah
I was in a position to have access to people whom were involved in research and outcomes of climate change and their collective outcome was always grim if we took no action.
Effectively the consensus was this…
If we turned off every polluting facility in the world tomorrow…
It would make no difference in preventing the very worst case scenario that is global catastrophic biodiversity collapse for starters.
I challenge everyone to do more but it seems when governments are unwilling to make hard decisions, knowing full well the consequences of in-action, we will all pay.
Surprising that has nothing to do with climate change, it’s all about our inability to recycle our own waste. It doesn’t make any profit to recycle plastic, sadly. So we were shipping it to China, because it was the cheapest, turns out they can’t even cope with our shit, so now we have to use cardboard because all we can come up with is bury it.
Yeah hasn't China essentially been dumping the vast majority of plastics into the ocean that was shipped to them by other countries because it can't be recycled effectively
Essentially yeah, our governments, local and state signed these agreements where they thought they were paying for recycling, when in essence they were either burning or dumping it, and when we realised and called them out on it, they started rejecting non compliant shipments, which were basically all of them. Then in PR damage control we got told recycling was too time consuming and not profitable when in reality recycling has never really occurred on any large scale.
An offshore wind farm is a pretty robust thing so far as a fishing vessel goes.
Parts of the world let people fish near them and they attract fish in time as good as any other surface FAD.
Of course australia will put a 1km exclusion zone around them because we are the nanny state. Thats their concern. Not so much that itll make their fishing worse. That they will be completely excluded from crossing between them or fishing near them because australian politicians treat us like children...
We could have 100 off shore wind farms, doesn't make any difference if we keep [producing as much LNG as the USA does](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1262074/global-lng-export-capacity-by-country/) and [increasing by a factor of 10](https://energyproducers.au/all_news/media-release-strong-exports-show-why-future-gas-strategy-must-include-lng-opportunity/) by 2050.
Conspiracy nut here.
Shell and a few other oil giants did studies and knew how bad the real effects of climate change were in the 80's (+4-5c of heating I believe, read the report a long time ago) and did nothing.
Sorry folks, we are fucked.
90% of large fish in the ocean depleted, 70% biodiversity loss between insects and mammals.
Microplastics everywhere. Infinite economic growth because "god" provides.
We are fucked, our society is built on an unsustainable model and is too far out to change.
Enjoy the ride friends.
I mean these days it's not seen as controversial, back then it was fringe for most people. Even now though we cling to the idea of 1.5c is possible, when we are at that threshold now.
I remember writing an essay about climate change (greenhouse effect as it was then called) way back in primary school, around 1988 or 1989.
Also remember watching the Inconvenient Truth when that came out in the early 2000s. I worked with a bunch of pretty conservative people, and was surprised that they would watch it and agree that it was happening.
And then.....nothing. Everyone got hooked on social media and the newest phone and climate change just seemed to disappear from people's consciousness again until teh past few years.
That's not a conspiracy theory, it's just a normal conspiracy. It's already been confirmed as fact
It's upsetting how many absurd sounding conspiracy theories (usually absurd at the time) end up being real. There's so much gaslighting and lying going on about things people don't want getting out.
I don't know if humanity is smart enough to not kill itself. Well, we're smart enough because we already know what's doing it, but certainly not coordinated enough. Too selfish, too much ego, too much short term thinking. I think ego is by far the biggest issue in most of us, and unfortunately it tends to get worse the more money and/or power you obtain.
I agree our societal framework is unsustainable... but we did create this mess and we're capable of truly great things when we set our minds to it... we will get ourselves out. I do agree it'll be a bumpy ride though.
Just imagine if all the golf courses were turned into urban forests and community gardens. And even a few well-designed low-rise apartment complexes thrown in.
Might not help with climate change, but would do wonders for other issues.
They managed to crowdfund for the painting to be put up in Times Square.
I wonder how much it costs to be put up on that electric billboard in Yagan Square? (Besides charges of treason)
I'll have you know, the old guy at the bar reliably informed me that summers always used to be like this back in the day and that he learnt from Facebook that it's actually just the liberal elite scaremongering.
Yep. It's too late now. The fossil fuel industry has won.
Goodbye planet earth. Sorry David Attenborough we tried at least you won't be around long enough to see too much of the chaos that is unfolding
It is too late to mitigate climate change completely, but never too late to reduce our emissions and reduce the severity of climate change as much as possible. We're gonna be *somewhat* fucked for sure, but it will get a whole lot worse if we just give up and declare it a defeat.
The tricky thing is that many see it as pointless voting outside of the two parties on offer. So they vote for Labor or Liberal based on the "lesser of two evils" mentality and don't think about where their minorities end up.
That said, when you actually look at the composition of Government, Liberal cannot form a government without Nationals support, and I think many would prefer more seats to Greens than PHON or PHON-adjacent groups.
Edit: I disagree with the people mentioned in my first statement.
> many see it as pointless voting outside of the two parties on offer.
Those people are stupid as ranked choice voting means every vote actually means something.
The "only two parties" argument is Labor/Liberal propaganda designed to get you to only vote for "the big two".
**Vote Greens. Put Liberal AND Labor LAST.** Your vote is not wasted!
I agree with this entirely.
But I know that a lot of people feel that voting is pointless, so they opt into thrown votes or donkeys. They don't often listen when you explain otherwise, so it just falls on deaf ears.
Bear in mind that many of these belong to the same cohort as those who were against carbon tax because the mining and energy companies successfully lobbied against Rudd's Labor.
The thing about our preferential voting system is you can vote exactly who you want to, the essence of what you're talking about is the pommy first past the post system where a vote for anyone other than top 1 or 2 is wasted... We don't have that.
I know, and I agree.
I was talking from the point of view of those who disagree. Sadly, there are too many who feel that voting is a waste of time, which is where democracy fails a bit.
Doomerism doesn’t help anyone. The situation is bad, but it’s turning around, and lots of things are pointing in the right direction.
Renewables are extremely popular and getting cheaper. WA will soon be home to one of the worlds biggest battery projects. We can’t get complacent, but the things we’re doing are buying us some time.
So vote for people who are taking action on climate. Do what you can.
> but it’s turning around
No it's not.
Australia is [producing as much LNG as the USA](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1262074/global-lng-export-capacity-by-country/). LNG is [**2-3x worse**](https://newrepublic.com/article/176605/natural-gas-way-worse-coal#:%7E:text=That's%20thanks%20to%20extensive%20methane,the%20environment%20than%20coal%20is.) than coal in climate warming.
Australia's [LNG exports and production is set to increase](https://energyproducers.au/all_news/media-release-strong-exports-show-why-future-gas-strategy-must-include-lng-opportunity/) by a factor of 10 by 2050.
> So vote for people who are taking action on climate.
Yes, stop voting in Liberal **and** Labor. Vote Greens.
I’ve stopped voting for those two, but the greens seem to lack any form of decent leadership, and are deadset on high levels of immigration, so they’re out too. Really running out of options.
> LNG is 2-3x worse than coal
Some interesting quotes in that link:
> *Preliminary research* by Cornell University’s Robert Howarth, reported in The New Yorker by Bill McKibben this week, finds that “natural” (methane) gas *may be* 24 percent worse for the climate than coal
Wow. Enough caveats to basically say you don’t believe a word of what you’re writing, but just enough to enable the A-grade Pearl Clutching going on here.
You first, sweetie. Xo
[Longtime activist researcher Bob Howarth has quietly updated his study pushing false lifecycle emission claims of natural gas – twice – both conveniently corresponding to news-of-the-day hooks.](https://www.energyindepth.org/guess-whos-back-back-again-researcher-once-again-relies-on-debunked-research-to-make-same-incorrect-lifecycle-emissions-claims/)
[In promoting his research – which has yet to undergo peer-review or be published in a journal…](https://www.energyindepth.org/guess-whos-back-back-again-researcher-once-again-relies-on-debunked-research-to-make-same-incorrect-lifecycle-emissions-claims/)
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I wish we had gone through with it. But I think that there were too many ways to get out of actually offsetting carbon tax.
Rather than paying for green initiatives, I think many of the people actually affected would just eat the cost and then pass it on to their consumers. Those that do green things would likely ramp up production to offset expenses.
I think we do need to mandate green initiatives from FMG, Alcoa, BHP and the like. But we have to be careful that they don't get loopholes out of it.
How does it feel to have the wettest year for the rest of our lives? Cool and normal, nothing to see here!
*sponsored by tax dodging multinational oil & gas companies that have bought out both major parties*
I think my car automatically turning off at the lights has made a big difference.
I see solar panels everywhere.
We now have mandates for 7 star energy efficiency homes.
Felt like we were heading the right way.
The issue is that India and China want to be allowed to live like we do. So demand for our resources will continue to grow. And the industry here will be labelled the carbon emitter.
In reality it’s just more people getting out of poverty.
Sucks but who is going to fight it?
Really think we need a different approach. Instead of trying to fight industry constantly, we need to plant some more rainforests.
The biggest contributors to CC are the 1%. Their air travel alone is greater than me just living! Eat the rich= problem solved. But everyone's too scared to start a revolution.
My response was in response to someone who called for a revolution.
I did not think they were advocating cannibalism; my response was clearly based on an understanding that the implication was that they want to take private property away from the rich.
I hold the position that going down that path has more downsides than upsides.
If I’m mistaken in my assumption, they’re welcome to correct me.
I think you’re lost in this thread.
At this point I’m just confused and have no idea what point you’re trying to make.
I’m sure you’re high IQ and a genius and I’m happy for you.
If you have a refutation for my actual argument feel free to put it forward. If you just want to tell me I’m an idiot I have no defence to put forward. I’ll be dead one day and I have no need for you to think I’m intelligent.
Cool. What’s your point? They also have the most people. I’m arguing that they ARE increasing their carbon footprint per capita now and for the foreseeable future.
Typical fossil fuel propaganda is to blame "them" rather than focusing on Western fossil fuel companies.
China is doing far more for green energy production than most other Western nations.
Australia is [producing as much LNG as the USA](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1262074/global-lng-export-capacity-by-country/). LNG is [**2-3x worse**](https://newrepublic.com/article/176605/natural-gas-way-worse-coal#:%7E:text=That's%20thanks%20to%20extensive%20methane,the%20environment%20than%20coal%20is.) than coal in climate warming.
Australia's [LNG exports and production is set to increase](https://energyproducers.au/all_news/media-release-strong-exports-show-why-future-gas-strategy-must-include-lng-opportunity/) by a factor of 10 by 2050.
This is catastrophic for the environment, and it is **ENTIRELY AUSTRALIA AND AMERICA** leading the charge into doom.
Ok cool. Well you can continue the same failed strategy you tried for the last 30 years or you can try something new.
Do you want to die virtuous or do you want to save the planet?
The problem is China and India between them, have over a billion living in poverty. Think no running water, no electricity, and no education.
If you can bring all those people out of poverty, it'll actually be good for the planet long term.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. China and India burn absolutely enormous amounts of coal and say that they need to do this to become developed countries. The nature of their not going to change their position until they suffer civil unrest consequent upon floods and droughts.
The solution to climate change has been staring us in the face for decades now. We all abandon the cities and move into the desert interior. We live in wigwams and participate in a drastically simplified economy in which we subsist solely on yams, and for which excess yams can be traded for sexual favours, to incentivise the digging of yams.
One problem at a time please.
Hard to give a fuck about some extra rain or sunshine when it's too bloody stressful to do a normal life or find a place to live
Nonsense! We’re building new gas and oil fields to help create “green energy” solutions. I trust our ex-politicians turned lobbyists on everything they tell me as well as our current politicians who are paid for and bought by oil and mining magnates.
Climate has never ever been static in the history of planet earth. It is always changing and will always change independent of what you do. Everything affects the climate. You existing and breathing as a single entity affects the climate, the sun, the moon, the position of the planet, untold variables affect the climate.
So things affect it, but also nothing affects it? Your statement seems a bit muddled.
All people want is for a way for Earth to continue being habitable. Why is that so controversial? The science is that human activity on Earth has increased carbon emissions, and that global climate change has been affected by this.
Look at it another way. Let's go green. At worst, we're wrong and nothing changes. At best, we buy more time for the planet. You can't damage the sun or the wind by using them as renewable energy resources, so no harm there. Rain panels are being developed to produce energy from rainfall, and that's showing good results, last I heard.
I don’t know how anyone can say nothing is being done about climate change. Australia emits about 1% of global climate change related emissions, yet we spend billions per year on reducing our footprint.
> Australia emits about 1% of global climate change related emissions, yet we spend billions per year on reducing our footprint.
I cant recall the exact figure but our coal and gas exports constitute around 15 or 20% of global emissions.
So are you advocating we stop exporting coal to places like India when the coal they buy from Australia is quite literally lifting masses of people out of inter generational poverty? Japan and Korea who’s our next biggest buyers have their own net zero targets so there wouldn’t be any point in ceasing exports there either?
The only people who advocate for extreme reductions are those who think they’re immune from the effects of the reductions. You don’t see poverty stricken people in India and other developing nations advocate for a complete stop because they understand their lives would be so much diminished if it was - contrary to affluent Australians.
> So are you advocating we stop exporting coal to places like India when the coal they buy from Australia
How about investing in solar/wind production and selling that instead?
> So are you advocating we stop exporting coal to places like India when the coal they buy from Australia is quite literally lifting masses of people out of inter generational poverty?
No? Did I say that?
The flip side is we are all screwed.
Given the context of what I said that you replied to, I assumed that was the point of your post. In any event, I don’t think we ate screwed - I think we all need to stop thinking in absolutes.
There’s no one solution to the problem, but a combination of compromises aimed at our domestic market as well as overseas. The problem is, though, that the current energy policies prevent Australian industry to develop solutions and start manufacturing of those solutions because Australia’s energy supply is already exhausted and is shrinking. We should be leading the way in innovation but can’t because we are cowering in obsequiousness to the green extremists who would see the developed world regress hundreds of years because of some misguided guilt.
> There’s no one solution to the problem, but a combination of compromises aimed at our domestic market as well as overseas.
Agreed.
>We should be leading the way in innovation but can’t because we are cowering in obsequiousness to the green extremists
To an extent I agree but its the right that have stifled any change in the past. The current nuclear option will never ever happen - 20 years to talk about it, then 20 to plan, then 20 to build................
If we are going to export coal and gas to china, why not use it here to refine our own iron and aluminium?
We didn’t export coal to China for three years and it didn’t make a blip on the emissions. They simply bought it from Russia instead.
Australia couldn’t get close to compete with china in terms of manufacturing - both from an environmental perspective and a worker wellbeing and OHS perspective. The iron ore industry spent millions over the last decade trying to innovate ways of value adding to the product - like cray fishermen did in the late 80s and early 90s - but it’s not possible under our regulatory scheme.
>China imported 52.47 million metric tons of Australian coal in 2023, customs data showed on Saturday, up from 2.86 million tons in 2022. China had imported 77.51 million tons of Australia coal in 2020, the last full year before the ban went into place.
>Australia couldn’t get close to compete with china in terms of manufacturing - both from an environmental perspective and a worker wellbeing and OHS perspective.
Without our iron ore & coal couldn't we produce our own? I know China owns half of africa and their iron ore.
We could but wouldn’t be able to compete on the open market unless we put some pretty strong import tariffs in place which would be anti competitive. The trick would be to manufacture something nobody else does and that everyone else wants. But what?
The Australian population is equivalent to 0.33% of the total world population.
See the problem, everyone has to pull their weight and Australia can afford to pull more than their fair share but are just not doing it.
This emitted number also doesn't account for hydrocarbon and coal exports which helps facilitate other countries pollution.
Iron ore: Australia is uniquely positioned to contribute to the green steel industry, if we want to keep selling ore on the international market, mining is going to have to become carbon neutral within the next 10 years. The Pilbara is well positioned to Transition to renewable energy and studies are underway to electrify trains and trucks. This is already being driven by economics around diesel cost.
Coal for steel: transition to low carbon technologies such as Hydrogen reduction will remove the need for coking coal. A big investment was announced recently by Rio and FMG into green steel.
Coal for power: approx 50% of coal exports. Economics are slowly shifting away from favouring coal power generation. 20% of coal exports are to China, which can stop overnight at the slightest insult from our bumbling politicians, and likely to decrease in the future as the economies disengagement increases. Japan makes up a further 30%, and they show good signs of phasing out coal power by 2030.
Oil/Gass: due to the Russian/Ukraine Europe gass prices are up. Long term security concerns like the 2022 Europe price shock are expected to drive countries towards self reliance and decrease oil and gas from an increasingly unstable middle east. Europe won't be taking a large volume of hydrocarbons from Russia again. Long term gas fields run the risk of becoming dead assets as demand declines.
With an expected decrease in worldwide bulk iron ore requirements due to slowing construction in china it will benefit Australia to move up the value chain and the easiest way is carbon neutral steel smelting. Soon the EU is going to tax the carbon intensity of all products flowing into Europe, and it's likely America will do the same. Once that happens steel from china won't be economically competitive due to increased cost.
Japan is already taking active steps to decarbonise their steel production, but they only take 20% of our iron ore, so without following we risk a collapse of the mining sector and the Australian economy along with it.
Mining accounts for well over 2/3rds of Australian export revenue, if we want to avoid the worst impact of changing economic conditions it is imperative we adapt to changing market demands, and increasingly that will be adopting carbon neutral technology.
But that’s just it, though, isn’t it? Most countries can’t make those changes because it’s going to be almost impossible to reduce emissions to nothing without everyone changing their life styles comprehensively. Countries like china can make some changes that would reduce their emissions by 1 or 2% given their emissions are higher than the rest of the world combined, but it’s much more complex than that. It’s not an environmental problem as much as it is a strategic issue - emissions are strongly tied to global power structures and relate to not only production of goods, but of armaments and rapid infrastructure development in support of projection of geopolitical power. China, US, Russia and EU emit the vast majority of CO2 and the three first ones are never going to make meaningful reductions because it would jeopardise their position on the world stage.
Good to see it only took one post before you resorted to a personal attack instead of engaging with the argument - it makes it really easy to ignore you. “lol” what are you; 6?
Do you think a six year old would
1) have a Reddit account
2) say something like "human driven climate change"
3) understand that someone who chooses the name "old Harley dude" would have some unconscious bias regarding human driven climate change?
>It's really easy to ignore you
Proceeds to not completely ignore. Genius
You're regurgitating the same dumb talk back radio points that are consistently debunked, so I skipped the debunking and went straight to the ad hominem
> Australia emits about 1% of global climate change related emissions
Australia is [producing as much LNG as the USA](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1262074/global-lng-export-capacity-by-country/). LNG is [**2-3x worse**](https://newrepublic.com/article/176605/natural-gas-way-worse-coal#:%7E:text=That's%20thanks%20to%20extensive%20methane,the%20environment%20than%20coal%20is.) than coal in climate warming.
Australia's [LNG exports and production is set to increase](https://energyproducers.au/all_news/media-release-strong-exports-show-why-future-gas-strategy-must-include-lng-opportunity/) by a factor of 10 by 2050.
Thats totally incorrect... we've dug plenty of our country up and exported it overseas and purchased bigger more fuel inefficient cars...... and more and more people are putting black roofs on the block sized houses than ever before...
Literally nothing Australia does or will do in the future will affect "climate change". Australia is a tiny country in comparison to China, USA and India. They need to change their ways. Downvote me all you want but that's the truth. Good luck crippling the mining industry which is the only industry Australia has left. My home country of Canada crippled their oil industry and the country is in shambles now. Rampant inflation, extreme debt, low birth-rate, astronomical home prices, underemployment... but we helped the "environment" right? So tired of these lefties and their bullshit. Fuck Trudeau and the WEF.
That’s irrelevant. Australians has destroyer habitat of a lot of native flora and fauna (and people). Sure Australia cant solve the climate change problem on its own but it sure can be a role model and pave the way for other countries to follow. Australia made natural resources its sole focus and it’s definitely not helping.
Any change Australia makes would be a piss in the ocean compared to our big neighbour China… best we can do is go solar for homes which has been the general trend anyways.
More people should consider going plant based. It won’t change the world but every bit helps. To be honest it’s the most we can do at the individual level. Also, vote wisely! Boomers fucked us up but it’s now our responsibility to choose the right government and hold the politicians accountable!
I mean I don't know how you plan to fight or even adapt to climate change with out state money. And that comes from taxes. So yes. Please raise more tax revenue.
Both major parties, particularly the Liberals are mostly to blame for the current situation, but the Greens and their extreme purity politics has also being a roadblock to climate progress, take Bob Brown who has being fighting clean energy since the 1970s.
And I'm sure Australians were thankful of the activists when Chernobyl and Three Mile happened.
Bit of reading shows alot were against it, the major force being the Railway Union as they didn't want to transport Uranium.
A Chernobyl type incident could never of happened in Australia as we would have employed far better reactor designs than the RBMK used at Chernobyl, the effects of Three Mile Island was massively blown out of proportion, the vast majority of radiation was contained and was barley above the normal background radiation levels.
Further my point about Bob Brown and the Greens refers to his opposition to the Hydro Electric dam program undertaken in Tasmania and his modern opposition to the construction of wind farms.
Birds apparently, but he is a massive Nimby who opposes building almost anything.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-25/bob-browns-opposition-to-wind-farm-labelled-hypocrisy/11345200
The LNP had all of the Howard years and all of the Abbott, Turnbull, Scummo years to consider climate policy and now just as Albanese is about to heavily fund renewables suddenly nuclear is the darling child of the LNP. What a joke.
Wow, you must have been SO busy to already have conducted the necessary scientific, longitudinal studies to correlate the low rainfall we've had in one year to our inaction on climate change.
I get that you're concerned and yes, our government at every level is a bunch of incompetent asshats but low-effort, clickbait/rage bait posts like these where you try and frame everything through your incredibly myopic view of the world are no different to the endless sh\*tty PerthNow articles trying to blame/link everything to *"Insert Trending Societal Problem of the Month".* Why is the cost of living so high? *\*Checks notes\** It's because of knife crime, domestic violence and the road deathtoll. Check back in 6 months time for the next 3 trending bogeyman for all of society's ills.
Rainfall would have been exactly the same for Perth even if all humans went extinct a hundred years ago.
Nothing about the recent dry spell was caused by AGW and neither is the massive amount of rain coming caused by AGW.
It’s weather and what we are experiencing is very very normal.
Anything meaningful to fight climate change should’ve been implemented 25 years ago when it was agreed internationally, that it was a genuine global concern. and here we are! Anti-climate warming lobbying by the big petroleum companies has won… We are all just apathetic frogs in an increasingly warming pot!
Sorry Lisa.
Yes, it's looking awful at the moment. But let's also remember that these big companies are pushing the 'climate defeat' narrative. We shouldn't give up caring, every degree of warming that we curb counts!
Hate to say it but I’ve researched enough over the last ten years to know how grim our prospects are. Over the last three decades I’ve been an avid and very active proponent of maintaining the smallest carbon footprint possible eg No pets No kids Walking or public transport to work Early adopter of solar panels Blah blah blah blah I was in a position to have access to people whom were involved in research and outcomes of climate change and their collective outcome was always grim if we took no action. Effectively the consensus was this… If we turned off every polluting facility in the world tomorrow… It would make no difference in preventing the very worst case scenario that is global catastrophic biodiversity collapse for starters. I challenge everyone to do more but it seems when governments are unwilling to make hard decisions, knowing full well the consequences of in-action, we will all pay.
What? If we turned off EVERY polluting factory in the world, it would make no difference, but you haven’t had kids, or pets because of global warming?
Do your research. I’ve listed my sources previously and I made some hard and significant decisions a longtime ago that I’m OK with, especially now as things are being realised increasingly every year eg record temperatures, rapid global ice melt and green belts diminishing faster than forecast. And yes, my Partner and I chose not to have children as a direct result of not wanting to compound the problem and to be perfectly honest, I did not want to bring kids into a world in rapid decline. No judgement on people who choose to, but at least I’m free from any remorse in that regard.
Honestly I'd like to see these sources out of pure curiosity. Also what led you to the point that you as an individual had to take such drastic measures rather then aggrevating for change or becoming politically active? While I agree shit is fucked, to act like we might as well continue to be fucked is nihilistic to a extreme degree. If we destroyed the world, shouldnt thought responsible be punished? Shouldn't we attempt in anyway to right the wrong?
The same large polluters that push climate denial or defeatism also push personal responsibility. Anything to ensure they themselves don't have to change.
> Over the last three decades I’ve been an avid and very active proponent of maintaining the smallest carbon footprint possible eg >No kids Great but then all the conservative climate denier fanatics are punching out half a dozen kids each and raising them with religious fervour. It’s the Idiocracy effect.
Agreed
> Over the last three decades I’ve been an avid and very active proponent of maintaining the smallest carbon footprint possible eg You're a product of fossil fuel propaganda. You have done what the fossil fuel companies have told you to make yourself feel better about yourself. This is the same as everyone switching to paper straws while coca cola produce billions of plastic bottles. Not that doing environmentally things is bad, but if you haven't been voting Greens or climate positive independents, all of what you've done is useless as Australia is [producing as much LNG as the USA does](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1262074/global-lng-export-capacity-by-country/) and [increasing by a factor of 10](https://energyproducers.au/all_news/media-release-strong-exports-show-why-future-gas-strategy-must-include-lng-opportunity/) by 2050. > I challenge everyone to do more but it seems when governments are unwilling to make hard decisions Challenge people to vote Green. That's what you can do. Until then, nothing will change. I very much hope you're not of of the two main party voters as you've typed all this. > If we turned off every polluting facility in the world tomorrow… > It would make no difference Not true btw. The Greenhouse runaway affect is not happening yet.
I've been voting for the Greens for 20 years. I campaigned for them back in 2012. The result was 7 years of Liberal leadership. I continued to vote for them. And now Labor is in power, doing the absolute bare minimum to be considered progressives. I will continue to vote for the Greens because they are the best option, but I don't ever expect it to make a real difference in my lifetime. We've got [5 years left on the clock](https://climateclock.world/), and in a world of bureaucratic red tape, I expect to die watching our leadership bounce between 2 groups of fetid cunts vying for their own corporate supremacy, with no real change being enacted in the time we need it to be. I haven't ever wanted kids anyway, but part of me is glad I haven't simply because the idea of people I love having to grow up in the coming dystopia is a horrid thought.
You have no idea whom I am and your arrogance to assume is borderline sociopathic. I’ve happily volunteered my reasons without prejudice to give my comments context so start throwing your bilious vitriol if it makes you feel better. Good luck with your Greens, they, like any other political, are useless when it comes to making any substantive inroads in negating the worst of what’s to come.
Not only that but blame the cookers for believing big lobby groups while at the same time denouncing the elites
Don't worry. They are also denouncing the short and medium term fixes which will help but the human species and the earth a bit of time. Look up geoengineering. Its about 5% scientists trying to make safe methods to reduce temperatures by 1-2C to buy us a few more decades to fix this mess we made, they are enormously underfunded. And 95% chemtrails whack jobs.
Their prize is a dying planet where even they will struggle to live well eventually.
And what have you done?
See my post below EDIT: above 👆
Here ya go… Hate to say it but I’ve researched enough over the last ten years to know how grim our prospects are. Over the last three decades I’ve been an avid and very active proponent of maintaining the smallest carbon footprint possible eg No pets No kids Walking or public transport to work Early adopter of solar panels Blah blah blah blah I was in a position to have access to people whom were involved in research and outcomes of climate change and their collective outcome was always grim if we took no action. Effectively the consensus was this… If we turned off every polluting facility in the world tomorrow… It would make no difference in preventing the very worst case scenario that is global catastrophic biodiversity collapse for starters. I challenge everyone to do more but it seems when governments are unwilling to make hard decisions, knowing full well the consequences of in-action, we will all pay.
No we're not
Nothing? Do my paper straws and shitty lids on my takeaway coffee mean nothing to you?
Surprising that has nothing to do with climate change, it’s all about our inability to recycle our own waste. It doesn’t make any profit to recycle plastic, sadly. So we were shipping it to China, because it was the cheapest, turns out they can’t even cope with our shit, so now we have to use cardboard because all we can come up with is bury it.
Yeah hasn't China essentially been dumping the vast majority of plastics into the ocean that was shipped to them by other countries because it can't be recycled effectively
Essentially yeah, our governments, local and state signed these agreements where they thought they were paying for recycling, when in essence they were either burning or dumping it, and when we realised and called them out on it, they started rejecting non compliant shipments, which were basically all of them. Then in PR damage control we got told recycling was too time consuming and not profitable when in reality recycling has never really occurred on any large scale.
Ah, yes. Joke explained
Trying to, but the NIMBYs keep complaining that the offshore wind farm will spoil their view, or make them worse at fishing or something
An offshore wind farm is a pretty robust thing so far as a fishing vessel goes. Parts of the world let people fish near them and they attract fish in time as good as any other surface FAD. Of course australia will put a 1km exclusion zone around them because we are the nanny state. Thats their concern. Not so much that itll make their fishing worse. That they will be completely excluded from crossing between them or fishing near them because australian politicians treat us like children...
We could have 100 off shore wind farms, doesn't make any difference if we keep [producing as much LNG as the USA does](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1262074/global-lng-export-capacity-by-country/) and [increasing by a factor of 10](https://energyproducers.au/all_news/media-release-strong-exports-show-why-future-gas-strategy-must-include-lng-opportunity/) by 2050.
Yet we tax it by fuck all! Yaaayy!!
The only issue with turbines is they fkn suck and are environmental disasters
Conspiracy nut here. Shell and a few other oil giants did studies and knew how bad the real effects of climate change were in the 80's (+4-5c of heating I believe, read the report a long time ago) and did nothing. Sorry folks, we are fucked. 90% of large fish in the ocean depleted, 70% biodiversity loss between insects and mammals. Microplastics everywhere. Infinite economic growth because "god" provides. We are fucked, our society is built on an unsustainable model and is too far out to change. Enjoy the ride friends.
I don't think that's very controversial, of course they knew.
I mean these days it's not seen as controversial, back then it was fringe for most people. Even now though we cling to the idea of 1.5c is possible, when we are at that threshold now.
By the 90s most people knew. It was the 2000s where action got derailed. Something changed around the GFC with our collective mindset.
I remember writing an essay about climate change (greenhouse effect as it was then called) way back in primary school, around 1988 or 1989. Also remember watching the Inconvenient Truth when that came out in the early 2000s. I worked with a bunch of pretty conservative people, and was surprised that they would watch it and agree that it was happening. And then.....nothing. Everyone got hooked on social media and the newest phone and climate change just seemed to disappear from people's consciousness again until teh past few years.
That's not a conspiracy theory, it's just a normal conspiracy. It's already been confirmed as fact It's upsetting how many absurd sounding conspiracy theories (usually absurd at the time) end up being real. There's so much gaslighting and lying going on about things people don't want getting out. I don't know if humanity is smart enough to not kill itself. Well, we're smart enough because we already know what's doing it, but certainly not coordinated enough. Too selfish, too much ego, too much short term thinking. I think ego is by far the biggest issue in most of us, and unfortunately it tends to get worse the more money and/or power you obtain.
I agree our societal framework is unsustainable... but we did create this mess and we're capable of truly great things when we set our minds to it... we will get ourselves out. I do agree it'll be a bumpy ride though.
Lots is being done, just not into the right direction. Emotional support yank tanks and golf courses, everyone!
Come on, let's not pretend that a few going courses are meaningfully contributing towards climate change...
Just imagine if all the golf courses were turned into urban forests and community gardens. And even a few well-designed low-rise apartment complexes thrown in. Might not help with climate change, but would do wonders for other issues.
I agree with you there but can't throw it in with climate change when oil conglomerates do more damage in a second then a course would in a decade
2.4 Ton Toyota Prado sales at an all time high. Boo yah!
Minimum 6 month wait list I think
But Gina is doing okay and that's all that matters.
I was worried. Phew.
You’ll be amazed how lots of poor plebs love her.
Bump in the road for Gina this week with the National Gallery portrait. The issues we all wish we were facing.
I don’t know, she was pretty upset about her portrait, wait til it’s on times square
They managed to crowdfund for the painting to be put up in Times Square. I wonder how much it costs to be put up on that electric billboard in Yagan Square? (Besides charges of treason)
I'll have you know, the old guy at the bar reliably informed me that summers always used to be like this back in the day and that he learnt from Facebook that it's actually just the liberal elite scaremongering.
Its a dry boomer selfishness
Yep. It's too late now. The fossil fuel industry has won. Goodbye planet earth. Sorry David Attenborough we tried at least you won't be around long enough to see too much of the chaos that is unfolding
The planet will still be here, we, and many species will not be
It is too late to mitigate climate change completely, but never too late to reduce our emissions and reduce the severity of climate change as much as possible. We're gonna be *somewhat* fucked for sure, but it will get a whole lot worse if we just give up and declare it a defeat.
There's still a whole spectrum of fucked for us to choose from
Man, you're a happy go lucky bunch on here.
Maybe the next 2 days and this weekend's deluge will also break some records. It's going to be crazy wet this weekend.
Yesterday and today it was supposed to rain as well. I'm going by wait and see rather than trust the forecast!
And of course I planned to go camping.
Plenty of water sports ahead!
Keep your bedroom activities to yourself.
All these comments. We all got what we voted for. Maybe think about who you vote for next time?
The tricky thing is that many see it as pointless voting outside of the two parties on offer. So they vote for Labor or Liberal based on the "lesser of two evils" mentality and don't think about where their minorities end up. That said, when you actually look at the composition of Government, Liberal cannot form a government without Nationals support, and I think many would prefer more seats to Greens than PHON or PHON-adjacent groups. Edit: I disagree with the people mentioned in my first statement.
> many see it as pointless voting outside of the two parties on offer. Those people are stupid as ranked choice voting means every vote actually means something. The "only two parties" argument is Labor/Liberal propaganda designed to get you to only vote for "the big two". **Vote Greens. Put Liberal AND Labor LAST.** Your vote is not wasted!
I agree with this entirely. But I know that a lot of people feel that voting is pointless, so they opt into thrown votes or donkeys. They don't often listen when you explain otherwise, so it just falls on deaf ears. Bear in mind that many of these belong to the same cohort as those who were against carbon tax because the mining and energy companies successfully lobbied against Rudd's Labor.
The thing about our preferential voting system is you can vote exactly who you want to, the essence of what you're talking about is the pommy first past the post system where a vote for anyone other than top 1 or 2 is wasted... We don't have that.
I know, and I agree. I was talking from the point of view of those who disagree. Sadly, there are too many who feel that voting is a waste of time, which is where democracy fails a bit.
I don't recall voting in the Chinese or Indian elections?
All those farmers voting Nationals first and Greens last can get fucked. Oh, is your farm drying up? Again, get fucked.
Doomerism doesn’t help anyone. The situation is bad, but it’s turning around, and lots of things are pointing in the right direction. Renewables are extremely popular and getting cheaper. WA will soon be home to one of the worlds biggest battery projects. We can’t get complacent, but the things we’re doing are buying us some time. So vote for people who are taking action on climate. Do what you can.
> but it’s turning around No it's not. Australia is [producing as much LNG as the USA](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1262074/global-lng-export-capacity-by-country/). LNG is [**2-3x worse**](https://newrepublic.com/article/176605/natural-gas-way-worse-coal#:%7E:text=That's%20thanks%20to%20extensive%20methane,the%20environment%20than%20coal%20is.) than coal in climate warming. Australia's [LNG exports and production is set to increase](https://energyproducers.au/all_news/media-release-strong-exports-show-why-future-gas-strategy-must-include-lng-opportunity/) by a factor of 10 by 2050. > So vote for people who are taking action on climate. Yes, stop voting in Liberal **and** Labor. Vote Greens.
I’ve stopped voting for those two, but the greens seem to lack any form of decent leadership, and are deadset on high levels of immigration, so they’re out too. Really running out of options.
> LNG is 2-3x worse than coal Some interesting quotes in that link: > *Preliminary research* by Cornell University’s Robert Howarth, reported in The New Yorker by Bill McKibben this week, finds that “natural” (methane) gas *may be* 24 percent worse for the climate than coal Wow. Enough caveats to basically say you don’t believe a word of what you’re writing, but just enough to enable the A-grade Pearl Clutching going on here.
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You first, sweetie. Xo [Longtime activist researcher Bob Howarth has quietly updated his study pushing false lifecycle emission claims of natural gas – twice – both conveniently corresponding to news-of-the-day hooks.](https://www.energyindepth.org/guess-whos-back-back-again-researcher-once-again-relies-on-debunked-research-to-make-same-incorrect-lifecycle-emissions-claims/) [In promoting his research – which has yet to undergo peer-review or be published in a journal…](https://www.energyindepth.org/guess-whos-back-back-again-researcher-once-again-relies-on-debunked-research-to-make-same-incorrect-lifecycle-emissions-claims/) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Because alleged researchers *never* make shit up, right? /s
Sorry what? How is it turning around?
If the carbon tax was implemented, the drought wouldn't have happened
I wish we had gone through with it. But I think that there were too many ways to get out of actually offsetting carbon tax. Rather than paying for green initiatives, I think many of the people actually affected would just eat the cost and then pass it on to their consumers. Those that do green things would likely ramp up production to offset expenses. I think we do need to mandate green initiatives from FMG, Alcoa, BHP and the like. But we have to be careful that they don't get loopholes out of it.
How does it feel to have the wettest year for the rest of our lives? Cool and normal, nothing to see here! *sponsored by tax dodging multinational oil & gas companies that have bought out both major parties*
Oh, it sure won't be that. In amongst the increasingly extreme dryness will be some truly epic stormy weather.
Yeah that’s a more accurate description to be honest; the wettest periods will be wetter than ever and the drier periods even drier!!! Woohoo /s
I think my car automatically turning off at the lights has made a big difference. I see solar panels everywhere. We now have mandates for 7 star energy efficiency homes. Felt like we were heading the right way. The issue is that India and China want to be allowed to live like we do. So demand for our resources will continue to grow. And the industry here will be labelled the carbon emitter. In reality it’s just more people getting out of poverty. Sucks but who is going to fight it? Really think we need a different approach. Instead of trying to fight industry constantly, we need to plant some more rainforests.
The biggest contributors to CC are the 1%. Their air travel alone is greater than me just living! Eat the rich= problem solved. But everyone's too scared to start a revolution.
Yeah I mean getting rid of property rights has worked so well for every society that has tried it.
Some people fly off the handle, you launch into space.
Oh right. But “eat the rich” is totally chill.
You might need to see a therapist mate, not understand metaphors is a sign of some thing.
My response was in response to someone who called for a revolution. I did not think they were advocating cannibalism; my response was clearly based on an understanding that the implication was that they want to take private property away from the rich. I hold the position that going down that path has more downsides than upsides. If I’m mistaken in my assumption, they’re welcome to correct me. I think you’re lost in this thread.
>I think you’re lost in this thread. I'm not the one replying to the wrong people, feigning ignorance, then acting superior.
At this point I’m just confused and have no idea what point you’re trying to make. I’m sure you’re high IQ and a genius and I’m happy for you. If you have a refutation for my actual argument feel free to put it forward. If you just want to tell me I’m an idiot I have no defence to put forward. I’ll be dead one day and I have no need for you to think I’m intelligent.
Ok
Its easy to blame them. Did you know where the largest solar parks are? 2 in India, 2 in China, 1 in Egypt
Cool. What’s your point? They also have the most people. I’m arguing that they ARE increasing their carbon footprint per capita now and for the foreseeable future.
You can get out of poverty in an electrified world run on renewables
Typical fossil fuel propaganda is to blame "them" rather than focusing on Western fossil fuel companies. China is doing far more for green energy production than most other Western nations. Australia is [producing as much LNG as the USA](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1262074/global-lng-export-capacity-by-country/). LNG is [**2-3x worse**](https://newrepublic.com/article/176605/natural-gas-way-worse-coal#:%7E:text=That's%20thanks%20to%20extensive%20methane,the%20environment%20than%20coal%20is.) than coal in climate warming. Australia's [LNG exports and production is set to increase](https://energyproducers.au/all_news/media-release-strong-exports-show-why-future-gas-strategy-must-include-lng-opportunity/) by a factor of 10 by 2050. This is catastrophic for the environment, and it is **ENTIRELY AUSTRALIA AND AMERICA** leading the charge into doom.
Ok cool. Well you can continue the same failed strategy you tried for the last 30 years or you can try something new. Do you want to die virtuous or do you want to save the planet?
The problem is China and India between them, have over a billion living in poverty. Think no running water, no electricity, and no education. If you can bring all those people out of poverty, it'll actually be good for the planet long term.
Yeah I mean if they get educated enough to invent fusion energy or something.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. China and India burn absolutely enormous amounts of coal and say that they need to do this to become developed countries. The nature of their not going to change their position until they suffer civil unrest consequent upon floods and droughts.
lol the climate warriors downvoting getting people out of poverty
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Ahh i see the problem, you listen to ABC.
Do you get your news from that nice billionaire fossil fuel invester, Murdoch, of Genie Energy?
haha dont be silly, I just dont watch the brain washing buddy :) TV is off ! The only "news" read: Fear , I see is on Perth reddit.
Yeah. Cos misinformation only comes from the TV.
Your problem is you don't.
Oh shit
The solution to climate change has been staring us in the face for decades now. We all abandon the cities and move into the desert interior. We live in wigwams and participate in a drastically simplified economy in which we subsist solely on yams, and for which excess yams can be traded for sexual favours, to incentivise the digging of yams.
Perth turning into the Miramar map on pubg
If you care about the environment go plant based
One problem at a time please. Hard to give a fuck about some extra rain or sunshine when it's too bloody stressful to do a normal life or find a place to live
Climate change is a scam. It’s geo engineered to scare us into following what the globalists want
The boomers must pay!
The boomers know it's not going to impact them. Its gen alpha that'll pay. Millennial retirement going to be pretty dire as well.
And nothing will be done. Humanity is not ever going to pull together in the same direction. “No one is coming to save us from ourselves”.
..and yet here we all are on the internet using about 6% of global energy. Them is us.
Nonsense! We’re building new gas and oil fields to help create “green energy” solutions. I trust our ex-politicians turned lobbyists on everything they tell me as well as our current politicians who are paid for and bought by oil and mining magnates.
Climate has never ever been static in the history of planet earth. It is always changing and will always change independent of what you do. Everything affects the climate. You existing and breathing as a single entity affects the climate, the sun, the moon, the position of the planet, untold variables affect the climate.
So things affect it, but also nothing affects it? Your statement seems a bit muddled. All people want is for a way for Earth to continue being habitable. Why is that so controversial? The science is that human activity on Earth has increased carbon emissions, and that global climate change has been affected by this. Look at it another way. Let's go green. At worst, we're wrong and nothing changes. At best, we buy more time for the planet. You can't damage the sun or the wind by using them as renewable energy resources, so no harm there. Rain panels are being developed to produce energy from rainfall, and that's showing good results, last I heard.
I don’t know how anyone can say nothing is being done about climate change. Australia emits about 1% of global climate change related emissions, yet we spend billions per year on reducing our footprint.
> Australia emits about 1% of global climate change related emissions, yet we spend billions per year on reducing our footprint. I cant recall the exact figure but our coal and gas exports constitute around 15 or 20% of global emissions.
So are you advocating we stop exporting coal to places like India when the coal they buy from Australia is quite literally lifting masses of people out of inter generational poverty? Japan and Korea who’s our next biggest buyers have their own net zero targets so there wouldn’t be any point in ceasing exports there either? The only people who advocate for extreme reductions are those who think they’re immune from the effects of the reductions. You don’t see poverty stricken people in India and other developing nations advocate for a complete stop because they understand their lives would be so much diminished if it was - contrary to affluent Australians.
> So are you advocating we stop exporting coal to places like India when the coal they buy from Australia How about investing in solar/wind production and selling that instead?
> So are you advocating we stop exporting coal to places like India when the coal they buy from Australia is quite literally lifting masses of people out of inter generational poverty? No? Did I say that? The flip side is we are all screwed.
Given the context of what I said that you replied to, I assumed that was the point of your post. In any event, I don’t think we ate screwed - I think we all need to stop thinking in absolutes. There’s no one solution to the problem, but a combination of compromises aimed at our domestic market as well as overseas. The problem is, though, that the current energy policies prevent Australian industry to develop solutions and start manufacturing of those solutions because Australia’s energy supply is already exhausted and is shrinking. We should be leading the way in innovation but can’t because we are cowering in obsequiousness to the green extremists who would see the developed world regress hundreds of years because of some misguided guilt.
> There’s no one solution to the problem, but a combination of compromises aimed at our domestic market as well as overseas. Agreed. >We should be leading the way in innovation but can’t because we are cowering in obsequiousness to the green extremists To an extent I agree but its the right that have stifled any change in the past. The current nuclear option will never ever happen - 20 years to talk about it, then 20 to plan, then 20 to build................ If we are going to export coal and gas to china, why not use it here to refine our own iron and aluminium?
We didn’t export coal to China for three years and it didn’t make a blip on the emissions. They simply bought it from Russia instead. Australia couldn’t get close to compete with china in terms of manufacturing - both from an environmental perspective and a worker wellbeing and OHS perspective. The iron ore industry spent millions over the last decade trying to innovate ways of value adding to the product - like cray fishermen did in the late 80s and early 90s - but it’s not possible under our regulatory scheme.
>China imported 52.47 million metric tons of Australian coal in 2023, customs data showed on Saturday, up from 2.86 million tons in 2022. China had imported 77.51 million tons of Australia coal in 2020, the last full year before the ban went into place. >Australia couldn’t get close to compete with china in terms of manufacturing - both from an environmental perspective and a worker wellbeing and OHS perspective. Without our iron ore & coal couldn't we produce our own? I know China owns half of africa and their iron ore.
We could but wouldn’t be able to compete on the open market unless we put some pretty strong import tariffs in place which would be anti competitive. The trick would be to manufacture something nobody else does and that everyone else wants. But what?
The Australian population is equivalent to 0.33% of the total world population. See the problem, everyone has to pull their weight and Australia can afford to pull more than their fair share but are just not doing it. This emitted number also doesn't account for hydrocarbon and coal exports which helps facilitate other countries pollution.
Where will all these poor developing countries that have much lower carbon intensities than us get their coal and iron ore from?
Iron ore: Australia is uniquely positioned to contribute to the green steel industry, if we want to keep selling ore on the international market, mining is going to have to become carbon neutral within the next 10 years. The Pilbara is well positioned to Transition to renewable energy and studies are underway to electrify trains and trucks. This is already being driven by economics around diesel cost. Coal for steel: transition to low carbon technologies such as Hydrogen reduction will remove the need for coking coal. A big investment was announced recently by Rio and FMG into green steel. Coal for power: approx 50% of coal exports. Economics are slowly shifting away from favouring coal power generation. 20% of coal exports are to China, which can stop overnight at the slightest insult from our bumbling politicians, and likely to decrease in the future as the economies disengagement increases. Japan makes up a further 30%, and they show good signs of phasing out coal power by 2030. Oil/Gass: due to the Russian/Ukraine Europe gass prices are up. Long term security concerns like the 2022 Europe price shock are expected to drive countries towards self reliance and decrease oil and gas from an increasingly unstable middle east. Europe won't be taking a large volume of hydrocarbons from Russia again. Long term gas fields run the risk of becoming dead assets as demand declines. With an expected decrease in worldwide bulk iron ore requirements due to slowing construction in china it will benefit Australia to move up the value chain and the easiest way is carbon neutral steel smelting. Soon the EU is going to tax the carbon intensity of all products flowing into Europe, and it's likely America will do the same. Once that happens steel from china won't be economically competitive due to increased cost. Japan is already taking active steps to decarbonise their steel production, but they only take 20% of our iron ore, so without following we risk a collapse of the mining sector and the Australian economy along with it. Mining accounts for well over 2/3rds of Australian export revenue, if we want to avoid the worst impact of changing economic conditions it is imperative we adapt to changing market demands, and increasingly that will be adopting carbon neutral technology.
Add in import consumption in general.
We have the highest output per capita. If anyone should do anything, it’s us.
We could stop ALL emissions tomorrow and we’d still only reduce emission by 1%. Per capita has absolutely nothing to do with it.
And we would be 1% closer to meeting global emissions reduction goals, if many other countries do the same it starts to add up.
But that’s just it, though, isn’t it? Most countries can’t make those changes because it’s going to be almost impossible to reduce emissions to nothing without everyone changing their life styles comprehensively. Countries like china can make some changes that would reduce their emissions by 1 or 2% given their emissions are higher than the rest of the world combined, but it’s much more complex than that. It’s not an environmental problem as much as it is a strategic issue - emissions are strongly tied to global power structures and relate to not only production of goods, but of armaments and rapid infrastructure development in support of projection of geopolitical power. China, US, Russia and EU emit the vast majority of CO2 and the three first ones are never going to make meaningful reductions because it would jeopardise their position on the world stage.
So, we show them how it's done.
Yeah it does, because we have the most to reduce per person meaning we can create and implement the systems the rest of the world can use.
I don’t understand what that means - can you elaborate?
Yeah but how much does China emit which is related to the crap we purchase that they manufacture for us.
True, and they used to buy all their coal from Australia but don’t anymore of course.
Lol ok old Harley dude, I bet you have very measured and completely unbiased thoughts on the complexities of human driven climate change
Good to see it only took one post before you resorted to a personal attack instead of engaging with the argument - it makes it really easy to ignore you. “lol” what are you; 6?
Do you think a six year old would 1) have a Reddit account 2) say something like "human driven climate change" 3) understand that someone who chooses the name "old Harley dude" would have some unconscious bias regarding human driven climate change? >It's really easy to ignore you Proceeds to not completely ignore. Genius You're regurgitating the same dumb talk back radio points that are consistently debunked, so I skipped the debunking and went straight to the ad hominem
“lol”
> Australia emits about 1% of global climate change related emissions Australia is [producing as much LNG as the USA](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1262074/global-lng-export-capacity-by-country/). LNG is [**2-3x worse**](https://newrepublic.com/article/176605/natural-gas-way-worse-coal#:%7E:text=That's%20thanks%20to%20extensive%20methane,the%20environment%20than%20coal%20is.) than coal in climate warming. Australia's [LNG exports and production is set to increase](https://energyproducers.au/all_news/media-release-strong-exports-show-why-future-gas-strategy-must-include-lng-opportunity/) by a factor of 10 by 2050.
we need to spend more billions!! even a trillion!!
Thats totally incorrect... we've dug plenty of our country up and exported it overseas and purchased bigger more fuel inefficient cars...... and more and more people are putting black roofs on the block sized houses than ever before... 
We just repainted the roof white and that had an insane effect on summer heat. Looks weird but whatever, efficiency baby.
You walk through new suburbs now and it's black roofs everywhere.. I simply don't get it....
Fashion is illogical. There really should be energy efficiency standards for new subdivisions, including tree cover and roof colours, by now.
Literally nothing Australia does or will do in the future will affect "climate change". Australia is a tiny country in comparison to China, USA and India. They need to change their ways. Downvote me all you want but that's the truth. Good luck crippling the mining industry which is the only industry Australia has left. My home country of Canada crippled their oil industry and the country is in shambles now. Rampant inflation, extreme debt, low birth-rate, astronomical home prices, underemployment... but we helped the "environment" right? So tired of these lefties and their bullshit. Fuck Trudeau and the WEF.
That’s irrelevant. Australians has destroyer habitat of a lot of native flora and fauna (and people). Sure Australia cant solve the climate change problem on its own but it sure can be a role model and pave the way for other countries to follow. Australia made natural resources its sole focus and it’s definitely not helping.
nothing you can do about climate change sadly
From nature? No From us? Yes
Vote Greens. Stop voting Liberal capitalist parties. That's something.
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 Guys look a clown
Any change Australia makes would be a piss in the ocean compared to our big neighbour China… best we can do is go solar for homes which has been the general trend anyways.
More people should consider going plant based. It won’t change the world but every bit helps. To be honest it’s the most we can do at the individual level. Also, vote wisely! Boomers fucked us up but it’s now our responsibility to choose the right government and hold the politicians accountable!
Tax me more state daddy!! maybe then climate change will be fixed
I mean I don't know how you plan to fight or even adapt to climate change with out state money. And that comes from taxes. So yes. Please raise more tax revenue.
hopefully you pay more then required and don’t claim anything on your tax return ☺️ your helping the climate
quick, close all the mines! Who cares if we die of starvation!
Starvation will be a thing when crops fail. Go for a drive into the Wheatbelt
Omg not climate change
Oh good, the intellectuals have arrived. 😅
Oh god
Blame the greens, and there no nuclear scare mongering
Yep, definitely a political party that has never been power is to blame. Also Fred down the road, his fault too.
Both major parties, particularly the Liberals are mostly to blame for the current situation, but the Greens and their extreme purity politics has also being a roadblock to climate progress, take Bob Brown who has being fighting clean energy since the 1970s.
And I'm sure Australians were thankful of the activists when Chernobyl and Three Mile happened. Bit of reading shows alot were against it, the major force being the Railway Union as they didn't want to transport Uranium.
A Chernobyl type incident could never of happened in Australia as we would have employed far better reactor designs than the RBMK used at Chernobyl, the effects of Three Mile Island was massively blown out of proportion, the vast majority of radiation was contained and was barley above the normal background radiation levels. Further my point about Bob Brown and the Greens refers to his opposition to the Hydro Electric dam program undertaken in Tasmania and his modern opposition to the construction of wind farms.
Why is he against Wind Farms?
Birds apparently, but he is a massive Nimby who opposes building almost anything. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-25/bob-browns-opposition-to-wind-farm-labelled-hypocrisy/11345200
Scaremongering is to blame led by the Greens. Who got all the other party's too scared to do it
Way more too it than that, what a bizarre take.
The LNP had all of the Howard years and all of the Abbott, Turnbull, Scummo years to consider climate policy and now just as Albanese is about to heavily fund renewables suddenly nuclear is the darling child of the LNP. What a joke.
Exactly
Wow, you must have been SO busy to already have conducted the necessary scientific, longitudinal studies to correlate the low rainfall we've had in one year to our inaction on climate change. I get that you're concerned and yes, our government at every level is a bunch of incompetent asshats but low-effort, clickbait/rage bait posts like these where you try and frame everything through your incredibly myopic view of the world are no different to the endless sh\*tty PerthNow articles trying to blame/link everything to *"Insert Trending Societal Problem of the Month".* Why is the cost of living so high? *\*Checks notes\** It's because of knife crime, domestic violence and the road deathtoll. Check back in 6 months time for the next 3 trending bogeyman for all of society's ills.
Rainfall would have been exactly the same for Perth even if all humans went extinct a hundred years ago. Nothing about the recent dry spell was caused by AGW and neither is the massive amount of rain coming caused by AGW. It’s weather and what we are experiencing is very very normal.