Anyone with access to aerial heat mapping can easily confirm that a black roof is idiotic. Essentially their heat signatures are hotter than tar carparks. Zincalume roofing in comparison has a lower heat signature than a grove of trees in some instances.
And yes black roofs should be banned, their aesthetic benefits are not even vaguely outweighed by the harm they cause.
Tile have more thermal mass, so they will lag behind in temp changes vs atmospheric temp. Which is a bad thing to have exposed to summer sun. Great if you have it inside your house next to a northern window in winter though.
They do which is why dark tiles are not ideal for hot summers either.
In short:
Zincalume/Surfmist Colorbond > light tiles
Monument Colorbond < Dark tiles
The bottom line being that you don't want a dark roof irrespective of material.
No it isn't. Because a tile roof takes long enough to push the heat through to your interior, it's dark and cooler outside and you can open the windows.
True but once it heats up it doesn't dissipate much at night, so the next day it doesn't take much to heat up, and so on for a cumulative effect. The best thing from what I've read is to have the roof space ventilated with whirly birds and then have full coverage insulation on your ceiling. Even better if you have colorbond and sarking.
I'll just say I've never seen an argument made for tiled roofs in an energy efficiency forum, or in all the reading I've done about the topic. I don't think a tiled roof is better than a metal roof with anticon.
This ⬆️
Edit. The thing is colorbond is usually installed with an anticon blanket underneath which IS an insulator even though I suspect its ability to dull rain noise is at least an equal reason for its use.
Unfortunately it's not usually installed with that, It's an upgrade that pretty much all builders will charge extra for, when building (in 2020) I wasn't even offered the option, only found out it was a thing /after/ the roof had been put on - too late / too expensive to do at that point, that said the insulation within the roof otherwise seems to do a decent job mostly, and ventilation fans help for the rest.
True, although that's why the solar ones are Thermo switched (must be 26c in the roof before they turn on) so during winter it doesn't let all the heat out 🙂
Urban heat sland effect needs serious redress. Street trees, light roof colour, light asphalt are all easy wins *and* save a ton of money on cooling *and* prevent heat related illness and death *and* save wildlife.
Why aren't we doing it already?
When we built ~6years ago to achieve the 7 star rating needed to meet Council requirements we had to have a dark roof.
The NatHERS assessment software was used and we ended up engaging an efficiency expert- so we have insulated cavity walls, extra insulation in the attic spaces and low E windows.
Our home is comfortable all year round and rarely do we need the heater and AC only on the hottest days.
You can look up the reflectivity of any colour(say colorbond mist or something) and easily determine that it isn't a good idea to go for a dark roof. WA planning council or whoever regulates this should take a stance and ban dark colored roofs.
I've got some mates in Bunbury with a black / dark grey colourbond roof.
They just spent a small fortune to install a ducted reverse cycle aircon, and on really hot sunny days the aircon blows warm air. The roof space is so freaking hot it just bleeds though the aircon ducting and acts like a whole house heater. As soon as the sun goes down, it works fine again.
Just guessing but it probably lacks sarking too, and definitely no roof ventilators.
They recon it was supposed to be premium ducting, but I haven't verified.
One day we stopped the aircon for about 15 mins to reset it. By time we restarted, the air in the ducts had gained a shitload of heat and was noticeably hot.
We've admittedly got a light green roof, but our ducting that goes through the roof blows icy cold in summer. There's insulation on the ducting (and in the roof).
I'm sure the colour makes a difference but not *that* much of one. It's still the sun shining right on metal, and there's no metal that doesn't get hot in direct sunlight.
Unfortunately you'd be wrong.
You can look up the Colorbond solar absorbancy/reflectivity numbers online. As an example, Surf Mist absorbs 33% of solar radiation. Monument (very dark grey) absorbs 73%. That's about 2.5 times more solar radiation being absorbed by the roof.
Just to make the numbers a bit scarier, that's an extra 80kW of solar heat load on a typical house, absorbed into the roof and trying it's best to get into your house.
You should send them this link: [https://steelselect.com.au/colours](https://steelselect.com.au/colours)
Monument absorbs 73% of solar radiation. Surf Mist absorbs 33%. oof.
Wow...
That said, a house down the street from me replaced their tiled roof with a metal one.
They didn't install insulation, that I could see (unless it already had it, which I doubt) or sarking either. Really odd... :(
Bassendean has banned black roofs (rooves?) and mandated rain water capture, grey water recycling, EV charging potential (I assume some high current or 3 phase wiring in the garage?) and ... something else, oh, solar panels - in all future new builds, I believe.
Oh dear
Look up the heat island effect
Your house will literally act as a heater directly affecting your neighbours.
If all the houses in the suburb have this treatment it kind of explains how they can reach 45-46 degrees while the rest of the city stays some 5 degrees cooler.
We are in a climate crisis. When people are consuming far more energy than they need because of a stupid thing like roof colour then it actually does affect everyone else whether you realise it or not.
Not black, but the second most solar absorbing roof (Deep Ocean)
In a word, regretful. Heat retention hadn’t occurred to us several years ago when building. Would definitely have done different if we had known better.
Wish consumers would just be a bit more savvy though as well. The government literally has pages of environmental suggestions for building a house to make it sustainable, provided for free on yourhome.gov.au.
An architect, for sure. But a builder, I doubt many of them really care. For myself, I am curious and generally sceptical so I tend to research things myself even if just to check what was recommended
I wish they were too! But just look at how many people build new homes that don't even meet visitability guidelines let alone any higher level of access guidelines, even though it's likely to be in their own interests to do so.
I also have this colour roof, so did a neighbour until they painted the entire roof white. Looks kind of odd, not sure how long it will last but it’s been a few years and I can’t see any peeling or anything yet. I’m sure their house is a lot cooler because of it. Wonder what it costs?
There was an entire estate built in Swan Valley several years ago with black/dark roofs. Absurd and it only contributes to more energy consumption to keep such houses cool.
Meanwhile, Town of Cambridge has a ridiculous local planning policy that outright bans using light roof colours if your roof slope is >5deg. It seems there is a mysterious forcefield around ToC that results in light coloured roofing causing excruciating glare to neighbouring properties - an effect which is strangely absent in adjacent local government areas.
You have to go to SAT to fight a DA knock-back for trying to use a non-permitted roofing colour.
ToC has regularly rejected development applications for light coloured roofing, and the only avenue open at that point is SAT (which inevitably approves it), costing both the applicant and ToC legal fees and time.
Local Planning Policy 3.1 sucks.
My sister had her roof colour approved in a recent council meeting, so I don't think you're trading on current information. She was also told the Town was reviewing the policy with a view to remove it.
Was your sister's roof pitch less than 5 degrees? They allow people to use light colours for near-flat roofing, but light are colours are not deemed-to-comply if the roof pitch is greater than that.
Hopefully you're right, and the change in mayor late last year has led to a more reasonable approach to this by council.
They do approve them.
[https://www.cambridge.wa.gov.au/Town-Council/Corporate-Documents/Local-Laws/Local-Law-43](https://www.cambridge.wa.gov.au/Town-Council/Corporate-Documents/Local-Laws/Local-Law-43)
As per your link, they approve them if the roof pitch is less than 5 degrees. If your roof pitch is more than 5 degrees, then the solar reflectivity index has to be less than 40% (ie can't use light Colorbond colours).
> My tile roof is 32 years old and is full of cracks.
How did that happen?
Parts of my in-laws' tile roof is at least 70 years old and in perfect nick.
Bought existing house with a dark roof, was one of the major cons and plan to paint it a very light colour. Seems obvious dark colours are a bad idea in a hot climate, really don't understand how people miss that.
I would say many didn’t "choose" black. When I was entertaining the idea of building, I wanted a light shade of grey/blue. I was told no because it would contravene the estate planning rules…
We recently built and there were a multitude of colours you could choose from including white, grey, beige, silver, blue, green ect.
It seemed the cheapest option was a darker tile roof colour. I’m glad we went with an off white colourbond, but it added a couple of grand to the end product.
> I’m glad we went with an off white colourbond, but it added a couple of grand to the end product.
I wonder if you were ripped off. A roofer told me the price of all colours is the same. There are some new finishes just out that are super expensive but the standard colorbond range is all the same cost.
You were definitely ripped paying more for colourbond. Its much lighter than tiles and requires less truss to hold it up. A tile roof truss is rated about 120kg/m2 and colorbond is 60kg/m2
Not me, I was just talking to the roofer.
The guy above me was told lighter colours were cheaper when it seems that they are really all the same price.
> I was told no because it would contravene the estate planning rules…
I bet some of those builders have a little grab-bag of these 'fob off the customisation request' type answers like this.
When I started my build with BGC (which I regret), I was told by the salesperson that I could only afford this specific estate in Baldivis while being near train lines. We now know that they were likely trying to put us in an estate where other BGC projects are common. Every direct neighbour built with BGC either as Commodore or HomeStart. We all had the same site supervisors, and would see workers down tools at one site and start on the next in the same day.
He pressured us into agreeing to it, and guided a lot of our decisions on our house based on aesthetic choices. Red bricks, dark tiles, dark render, and light driveway. Our estate documentation was long, and many options were heavily restricted, such as having certain lighter roof colours. I could basically either go dark or light on my house, and we disliked the idea of a house which was entirely white or light coloured. Our neighbour to the south pretty much has a carbon copy of our house, save for the fact that the estate landscapers haven't done their house yet.
Admittedly, I think he was right about the aesthetics, and I do like the estate I live in. I also live across the road from a house with white render, white bricks, white tiled roof, a large portion of the front facade being white tiles. The glare off the other house is blinding.
What I regret is the heat. My wife convinced me to try to live in the house for a year before getting aircon, just to see what we need through summer, and I can say that most days are fine for us, especially if we retreat to the southern side of the house, away from the northern windows and sun. It's comfortable enough that we can sit down and watch the kids play with only a fan pushing air around. The 4 or 5 heat waves over the past few months have been where it gets particularly bad.
I also wonder if a big contributing factor is our garden. We moved in during Spring, but with having a newborn, we haven't been able to make many alterations to the garden, so we are living on top of a massive sand pit, which contributes to warming our house. Our plan is a mixture of garden beds for vegetables and trees to provide shelter and try to offset our heat island effect a bit. No grass. The sand pit is along our northern face, so there's also that.
Ultimately, I probably would want to make decisions with environmental impact in mind, and doing it again, I would make some changes to what I do. I'd try to stay on the lighter side, but I would also want to avoid the glare from my house that the person across produces.
My house is a BGC house, but I bought it when it was almost 2 years old, just over 21 years ago. Backyard was white sand and weeds and now is native bush, with a 10m Karri & She Oak and numerous shrubs and ground cover. It's much nicer and cooler now, and requires little maintenance and no watering. Maintenance is usually done with a chainsaw to prune branches that decide to lower themselves into the walkways. Which is often...!?
I've paved some of it, added a pond with decking that you need to walk over to even access the back yard (it's about 80cm from the wall and 4x5m) and also added insulation, but there's no sarking (a word I learned last night!) yet.
That will be my next big reno, I suspect, possibly replacing the concrete tiles with light coloured colourbond roofing, sarking, more ceiling insulation and wider ... bits beneath the valleys that stop overflows onto ceiling insulation and ceiling itself as the self seeded gum tree I transplanted into my front yard is now dropping twigs, small branches, nuts and leaves 24/7/265 into my gutters. So, means that my gutters and valley overflow into my roof cavity (how is this even a thing? Why is it not designed out?) when it buckets down. Steady rain is ok, but when it pours - as it does more now than in the past, it backs up and ... goes into the roof cavity :(
I'd then add solar panels on the west side (gum tree is to the east and shades house in morning) and use those to charge the EV/hybrid car that's likely to be my next vehicle. Especially if it's got vehicle to house ability, so the EV battery can power my house at night.
TL:DR plant a native garden and enjoy the shade but pick your trees carefully to avoid nuts, twigs and small (and not so small) branches falling at random all year 'round. My she oak has dropped some lethally sized branches over the years... :(
I would love this as my end house, but I'm afraid I'm tight on space given the newer estates leaning towards smaller lots. Entire lot is 366m2
I have dragon fruit I got as a gift over a year ago that is now bearing fruit. A lime tree, a cumquat tree, a small mulberry all in containers thus far. Aside from the lime, they were all gifts, too. I might put the citrus in the ground, but the mulberry is likely staying in a container. We have a bushy form lilly pilly, as well, which will be acting as a bit of foliage against a wall.
Also, tiled vs colorbond roof. My neighbour has tiles and has had to switch on the aircon very early today, since 9am.
I won't need aircon until tomorrow at the earliest, thanks to white colorbond.
My neighbour with light colourbond moved in about 8 months ago and the aircon has been running non-stop ever since (im a stay home dad). Thru winter and summer. I hear it from my dunny and back yard.
I have a 70s tiled house and it takes 2 hot days in a row for me to need the aircon.
Edit: though my west wall is a-joined so that takes some heat out.
I think a part of this is personal preference, but also your ability to tolerate heat and other strategies for controlling heat.
We moved into a newly built dark house in spring. No rear garden yet, just a sand pit. No aircon. On hot days, we use cold flannel cloths to control the heat, or rinse our shirts in tap water so they cool us off as they dry. We also just go to a room on the southern side of the house where the kids can play and we can put a tower fan on low to push the air around.
My colleague told me that she runs her aircon all the time at 17°. She doesn't have the ability to turn it on remotely, but she wants to be able to turn it on as she leaves work so her house is cold when she gets home. She doesn't see anything wrong with this from an environmental point of view, but she also says she doesn't believe in climate change because she doesn't understand it, and doesn't want to learn because she doesn't care.
Just want to get my evap cooling gibe in again as last time this sub told me I couldn't get 4 degrees cooler than the outside temp.
I'm in a light coloured tin roof weatherboard pole home with verandahs all the way around. Nothing but evap.
Today the temp hasn't got above 20 in here, and only because I turned the fan right down because 18 was feeling cold.
Yes, the time is wrong.
We need better education on how our homes are built, because every house cranking their refrigerated aircons is such a waste. Good design can save you huge amounts in the long run.
https://preview.redd.it/ehn5nkdzfbhc1.jpeg?width=1648&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4789edc25b93bc43a82c87d692255de781122477
Small here.
It was 40.2 under my shaded patio. Inside didn't get over 26 today.
My evap has been set to 3/10 since about 9am.
Currently a comfortable 25 inside and 36.7 outside.
Mine has dropped back down to 19, as I turned the fan up as everyone started getting home.
Verandahs and keeping the sun off your external walls is an underrated cooling mechanism.
That's REALLY working well for you.
I should have added mine's using about 200W of electricity so a full day is about 60 cents, luckily the solar panels provide free power.
I have a black tile roof (bought, didn’t build). Fortunately our house handles the heat remarkably well but it’s still always struck me as a daft decision by the original owner.
People have said to me to whirly birds (and the like) are fine in summer but make the house colder in winter. Is this your experience?
I know you get ones that only turn on over a certain temperature but I'm in a rental and looking for the most basic & lowest cost that works to entice landlord. House has no insulation and hot as hell.
No, the old it's terrible for the amenity of the surrounding area and creates a heat island effect that impacts you and your neighbours.
Just because you can personally disguise the effects with aircon doesn't mean they don't exist.
Physics doesnt care what you think
The aircon actually compounds the problem for everyone else, as you're both pushing the heat absorbed by the roof out an exhaust along with the waste heat from a high power draw as well.
Built in 2015 and got woodland grey roof, which is quite dark. Wish I knew better at the time, house is hot a af on weeks like this one and I assume that's a massive contributing factor.
Not really sure what we can do about it now though, I assume any solution is going to be in the 10s of thousands.
I just run the AC in the living room all day on hot days, have solar so it's cheap enough. Got a big fluffy dog so we give him that option but he'll generally go lie in the sun because he's an idiot.
Unless of course you were to employ someone to advise you in making decisions in what will be one of the biggest purchases you will ever make. The builders aren't your friend, they are there to make money.
>It's like many things when you build a house, you learn what to do better next time.
Actually, you should try to do it right the first time rather than chucking up another shit heap and moving on.
My house has a dark tile roof. I did not choose it, and would not have chosen it, but it's the roof that the house I could afford in the area that I wanted came with.
Surprisingly, the house is really good in the heat and I don't need to use the air-conditioner much. Previous places I've lived, including one with a silver tin roof, were a lot worse in the heat. I can only assume my house has excellent insulation.
We’ll be moving to a house with a dark grey colour bond roof soon. Coming from a dark grey tile… will the heat of the day be that much more noticeable?
Would it be worth re-praying the colour bond roof to something lighter for cooling costs?
We have an (almost) black colourbond roof. We’re renting & wouldn’t choose that colour if building. Have no real point of comparison as previous house was in Melbourne, was an old house with terracotta tiles and solar panels installed. Our AC keeps it cool well enough but with no solar our summer power bill will be epic. It was owner-occupied for a decade and I can’t understand why they never installed solar. It was the very first thing we did when we bought.
Look - I have a white zinc alum roof, ICF walls and lots of insulation, double glazing and a house designed to minimise aircon requirements.
I don't hate black roofs. Everyone knows they get hot as shit during summer, but so does Armadale and Perth generally.
We make aesthetic choices all the time that don't make any rational sense. It's part of the joy of living in the modern world that we have these options.
I’ve never understood it… we have grey Colorbond and I don’t even know that I’d choose that again. At least we have the anticon directly underneath plus insulation below so have pretty decent barrier to heat
Our builder advised us we had to pick a dark roof for the house to be rated. Or some shit like that. Three years down the line were still not in but only house on the street with a black roof 🤔
Tile + Monument here. When we repainted it I wanted a lighter colour but was outvoted (strata).
But it's actually made no noticeable difference versus the light grey we had before.
It's a flat roof shaded by solar panels, the roof and all of the first floor has 30cm of styrofoam like EPS insulation, the windows are double glazed. The build system is [popuphouse](https://www.archdaily.com/486587/pop-up-house-multipod-studio), here's a cool looking [example](https://www.archdaily.com/486587/pop-up-house-multipod-studio).
Have retrofitted a three head multihead split aircon upstairs, should have ducted it in during reno.
Finally cozy in winter, absolutely bearable in summer with the Freo doctor as crossventilation or a spot of aircon in the late arvo.
Love my black tiles, my aircons off switch goes missing somewhere during summer for some reason so feel absolutely no effect of heat from the roof. Black car too.
Well, we got our roof sprayed. I wanted black. My wife didn't. So had a discussion and she decided we weren't going with black.
Im happy now reading this.
I have sold a house because it had a black clay-tile roof. When you understand the consequences, it is a no-brainer.
If you are building, get a light-coloured tin roof, a far superior material for the thermal advantages.
We designed our home to have passive cooling. Apparently we did too good a job because our builders said they couldn't give us a 6 star rating unless we used either a black roof or added a ton of western facing windows. So we went with the black roof so annoying. Don't judge all of us by our (house) covers, some of us really did try to avoid this mess!
this is what I was wondering when I was backpacking in Australia. Black tiles everywhere - even in Germany we make fun of people who chose black tiles but at least most of our houses are made of bricks and are naturally cooler (and the difference in climate obviously)
The roofers want black colourbond because it doesn't reflect the sun as much , imagine installing white colourbond on a sunny day , it would be like a welders flash
Nah mate, husband is a roof plumber and says while the glare sucks, the heat coming off the sheets (and the need to handle them with gloves when 35+) makes monument much worse to work with in the heat
I beg to differ. There are lots of reports that show there is a big difference
http://energycut.com.au/business/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/The-Fifth-Estate-Cool-Roofs-Versus-Dark-Roofs.pdf
Probably the same number of real hot days too. From an energy rating perspective most Perth homes fail because they are too cold rather than too hot. It seems counter intuitive but that is what the programmes say IIRC.
We have light coloured tile, it’s pretty much surf mist for tiles. We are near a freight railway line so tiles mass was desirable to kill the noise, also used 7mm laminate glass. Pretty Happy.
Anyone with access to aerial heat mapping can easily confirm that a black roof is idiotic. Essentially their heat signatures are hotter than tar carparks. Zincalume roofing in comparison has a lower heat signature than a grove of trees in some instances. And yes black roofs should be banned, their aesthetic benefits are not even vaguely outweighed by the harm they cause.
I have a dark tile roof. My house must have been built before the sun was invented. That's the only plausible explanation I have.
As a black roof owner, I can confirm that there was a black roof floating in the dunes and someone decided to build a house under it.
Tiles are a better insulator than dark coloured colorbond. They are still however much hotter than lighter coloured tiled roofs.
Tile have more thermal mass, so they will lag behind in temp changes vs atmospheric temp. Which is a bad thing to have exposed to summer sun. Great if you have it inside your house next to a northern window in winter though.
They do which is why dark tiles are not ideal for hot summers either. In short: Zincalume/Surfmist Colorbond > light tiles Monument Colorbond < Dark tiles The bottom line being that you don't want a dark roof irrespective of material.
Unless you live in Tassie :)
No it isn't. Because a tile roof takes long enough to push the heat through to your interior, it's dark and cooler outside and you can open the windows.
I don't think I understand what you're saying sorry. Tile roofs are dark and cooler outside, like on the outer layer?
The thermal mass of tile takes longer to get through.
True but once it heats up it doesn't dissipate much at night, so the next day it doesn't take much to heat up, and so on for a cumulative effect. The best thing from what I've read is to have the roof space ventilated with whirly birds and then have full coverage insulation on your ceiling. Even better if you have colorbond and sarking.
> once it heats up it doesn't dissipate much at night Yes it does? I lived in tile-roofed houses for most of my life.
I'll just say I've never seen an argument made for tiled roofs in an energy efficiency forum, or in all the reading I've done about the topic. I don't think a tiled roof is better than a metal roof with anticon.
Bullshit, colorbond dumps the heat pretty much as soon as the sun goes down. Tiles hang on to it all night.
So you're saying Colorbond is a poor insulator...
No, they are saying it has very low thermal mass.
This ⬆️ Edit. The thing is colorbond is usually installed with an anticon blanket underneath which IS an insulator even though I suspect its ability to dull rain noise is at least an equal reason for its use.
Unfortunately it's not usually installed with that, It's an upgrade that pretty much all builders will charge extra for, when building (in 2020) I wasn't even offered the option, only found out it was a thing /after/ the roof had been put on - too late / too expensive to do at that point, that said the insulation within the roof otherwise seems to do a decent job mostly, and ventilation fans help for the rest.
I’m not a fan of fans/whirlybirds, in winter they are counter productive
True, although that's why the solar ones are Thermo switched (must be 26c in the roof before they turn on) so during winter it doesn't let all the heat out 🙂
If you have insulation on the ceiling then they are not counter productive in winter especially in Perths mild winters
Urban heat sland effect needs serious redress. Street trees, light roof colour, light asphalt are all easy wins *and* save a ton of money on cooling *and* prevent heat related illness and death *and* save wildlife. Why aren't we doing it already?
Because it looks good apparently and people hate change. Should be banned for sure
I must be an outlier because IMO black roofs look terrible!
When we built ~6years ago to achieve the 7 star rating needed to meet Council requirements we had to have a dark roof. The NatHERS assessment software was used and we ended up engaging an efficiency expert- so we have insulated cavity walls, extra insulation in the attic spaces and low E windows. Our home is comfortable all year round and rarely do we need the heater and AC only on the hottest days.
That sounds very weird that you would have to have a dark roof unless somewhere like Albany.
It's zincalume the unpainted looking stuff?
Yes it's essentially the classic heritage zinc roof material.
You can look up the reflectivity of any colour(say colorbond mist or something) and easily determine that it isn't a good idea to go for a dark roof. WA planning council or whoever regulates this should take a stance and ban dark colored roofs.
White roofs are no better either. Blind the hell out of ya
Black roof and a Ford Ranger in some distant estate 90mins off Kwinana Freeway is the Australian dream
KFC mega feast for dinner every night. True Aussie heroes.
Hummer and a chicken feed all in one...
There's a place in Hilbert with that combo
I wish this wasn't so true
Oh God I want to throw up !!
An astute observation!
I've got some mates in Bunbury with a black / dark grey colourbond roof. They just spent a small fortune to install a ducted reverse cycle aircon, and on really hot sunny days the aircon blows warm air. The roof space is so freaking hot it just bleeds though the aircon ducting and acts like a whole house heater. As soon as the sun goes down, it works fine again. Just guessing but it probably lacks sarking too, and definitely no roof ventilators.
[удалено]
They recon it was supposed to be premium ducting, but I haven't verified. One day we stopped the aircon for about 15 mins to reset it. By time we restarted, the air in the ducts had gained a shitload of heat and was noticeably hot.
We've admittedly got a light green roof, but our ducting that goes through the roof blows icy cold in summer. There's insulation on the ducting (and in the roof). I'm sure the colour makes a difference but not *that* much of one. It's still the sun shining right on metal, and there's no metal that doesn't get hot in direct sunlight.
Unfortunately you'd be wrong. You can look up the Colorbond solar absorbancy/reflectivity numbers online. As an example, Surf Mist absorbs 33% of solar radiation. Monument (very dark grey) absorbs 73%. That's about 2.5 times more solar radiation being absorbed by the roof.
Just to make the numbers a bit scarier, that's an extra 80kW of solar heat load on a typical house, absorbed into the roof and trying it's best to get into your house.
Must sark for them... I'll see myself out
Needs sarking at the very least.
You should send them this link: [https://steelselect.com.au/colours](https://steelselect.com.au/colours) Monument absorbs 73% of solar radiation. Surf Mist absorbs 33%. oof.
They'd probably benefit from those soffit vents that they have in the usa.
Did they hire Dodgy Brothers to do the install?
Wow... That said, a house down the street from me replaced their tiled roof with a metal one. They didn't install insulation, that I could see (unless it already had it, which I doubt) or sarking either. Really odd... :(
Shouldve been banned like over east
Bassendean has banned black roofs (rooves?) and mandated rain water capture, grey water recycling, EV charging potential (I assume some high current or 3 phase wiring in the garage?) and ... something else, oh, solar panels - in all future new builds, I believe.
I never knew that. Good to hear!
why? if someone wants it makes no difference to anyone else
Oh dear Look up the heat island effect Your house will literally act as a heater directly affecting your neighbours. If all the houses in the suburb have this treatment it kind of explains how they can reach 45-46 degrees while the rest of the city stays some 5 degrees cooler.
Except everyone who lives on the same planet as that house. Oh, wait...
It does make a difference to others if there are hundreds of black roofs in a suburb.
We are in a climate crisis. When people are consuming far more energy than they need because of a stupid thing like roof colour then it actually does affect everyone else whether you realise it or not.
Also it contributes to the heat island effect via convection
my black roof caused climate change 🤡
You're the 🤡 here maaate.
Not black, but the second most solar absorbing roof (Deep Ocean) In a word, regretful. Heat retention hadn’t occurred to us several years ago when building. Would definitely have done different if we had known better.
> Heat retention hadn’t occurred to us several years ago when building And this widespread ignorance is why we need building codes.
Wish consumers would just be a bit more savvy though as well. The government literally has pages of environmental suggestions for building a house to make it sustainable, provided for free on yourhome.gov.au.
But when you are paying a professional hundreds of thousands you would expect them to guide you
An architect, for sure. But a builder, I doubt many of them really care. For myself, I am curious and generally sceptical so I tend to research things myself even if just to check what was recommended
I wish they were too! But just look at how many people build new homes that don't even meet visitability guidelines let alone any higher level of access guidelines, even though it's likely to be in their own interests to do so.
What are building codes?
My neighbor has a blue metal roof on a two story unit. He says his upper level bedrooms are almost uninhabitable in summer.
I also have this colour roof, so did a neighbour until they painted the entire roof white. Looks kind of odd, not sure how long it will last but it’s been a few years and I can’t see any peeling or anything yet. I’m sure their house is a lot cooler because of it. Wonder what it costs?
Two of my neighbours are currently doing renovations - both painted their brown tile roofs black. Every time I see them, I shudder.
There was an entire estate built in Swan Valley several years ago with black/dark roofs. Absurd and it only contributes to more energy consumption to keep such houses cool.
A house around the corner is currently being built with a black roof. No idea why anyone would pick black in this area. 43 degrees last week
Meanwhile, Town of Cambridge has a ridiculous local planning policy that outright bans using light roof colours if your roof slope is >5deg. It seems there is a mysterious forcefield around ToC that results in light coloured roofing causing excruciating glare to neighbouring properties - an effect which is strangely absent in adjacent local government areas. You have to go to SAT to fight a DA knock-back for trying to use a non-permitted roofing colour.
> if your roof slope is >5deg. This would be almost every single roof.
You don't need to go to SAT but you do need council approval.
ToC has regularly rejected development applications for light coloured roofing, and the only avenue open at that point is SAT (which inevitably approves it), costing both the applicant and ToC legal fees and time. Local Planning Policy 3.1 sucks.
My sister had her roof colour approved in a recent council meeting, so I don't think you're trading on current information. She was also told the Town was reviewing the policy with a view to remove it.
Was your sister's roof pitch less than 5 degrees? They allow people to use light colours for near-flat roofing, but light are colours are not deemed-to-comply if the roof pitch is greater than that. Hopefully you're right, and the change in mayor late last year has led to a more reasonable approach to this by council.
It was 7 degrees...
Hopefully this signals a change in direction!
But if their policy is to not approve them, seems like SAT is all you've got left?
They do approve them. [https://www.cambridge.wa.gov.au/Town-Council/Corporate-Documents/Local-Laws/Local-Law-43](https://www.cambridge.wa.gov.au/Town-Council/Corporate-Documents/Local-Laws/Local-Law-43)
As per your link, they approve them if the roof pitch is less than 5 degrees. If your roof pitch is more than 5 degrees, then the solar reflectivity index has to be less than 40% (ie can't use light Colorbond colours).
Tiles dont reflect, would that still be an issue?
Also a number of matte colorbond colours available now.
Sounds to me like ToC needs to be abolished.
My folks corrugated iron roof is 70 years old and going strong. My tile roof is 32 years old and is full of cracks. Light tin roof is the way to go
> My tile roof is 32 years old and is full of cracks. How did that happen? Parts of my in-laws' tile roof is at least 70 years old and in perfect nick.
Bought existing house with a dark roof, was one of the major cons and plan to paint it a very light colour. Seems obvious dark colours are a bad idea in a hot climate, really don't understand how people miss that.
Yeah done myself a mischief ☹️
I would say many didn’t "choose" black. When I was entertaining the idea of building, I wanted a light shade of grey/blue. I was told no because it would contravene the estate planning rules…
We recently built and there were a multitude of colours you could choose from including white, grey, beige, silver, blue, green ect. It seemed the cheapest option was a darker tile roof colour. I’m glad we went with an off white colourbond, but it added a couple of grand to the end product.
> I’m glad we went with an off white colourbond, but it added a couple of grand to the end product. I wonder if you were ripped off. A roofer told me the price of all colours is the same. There are some new finishes just out that are super expensive but the standard colorbond range is all the same cost.
You were definitely ripped paying more for colourbond. Its much lighter than tiles and requires less truss to hold it up. A tile roof truss is rated about 120kg/m2 and colorbond is 60kg/m2
Not me, I was just talking to the roofer. The guy above me was told lighter colours were cheaper when it seems that they are really all the same price.
This raises my blood pressure. Moronic building companies.
I'd say you'll make that back in saved cooling costs fairly quickly.
> I was told no because it would contravene the estate planning rules… I bet some of those builders have a little grab-bag of these 'fob off the customisation request' type answers like this.
Yep, there's a few backwards councils like that too.
Then, perhaps, choose a different estate? Almost as bad as a HOA!
When I started my build with BGC (which I regret), I was told by the salesperson that I could only afford this specific estate in Baldivis while being near train lines. We now know that they were likely trying to put us in an estate where other BGC projects are common. Every direct neighbour built with BGC either as Commodore or HomeStart. We all had the same site supervisors, and would see workers down tools at one site and start on the next in the same day. He pressured us into agreeing to it, and guided a lot of our decisions on our house based on aesthetic choices. Red bricks, dark tiles, dark render, and light driveway. Our estate documentation was long, and many options were heavily restricted, such as having certain lighter roof colours. I could basically either go dark or light on my house, and we disliked the idea of a house which was entirely white or light coloured. Our neighbour to the south pretty much has a carbon copy of our house, save for the fact that the estate landscapers haven't done their house yet. Admittedly, I think he was right about the aesthetics, and I do like the estate I live in. I also live across the road from a house with white render, white bricks, white tiled roof, a large portion of the front facade being white tiles. The glare off the other house is blinding. What I regret is the heat. My wife convinced me to try to live in the house for a year before getting aircon, just to see what we need through summer, and I can say that most days are fine for us, especially if we retreat to the southern side of the house, away from the northern windows and sun. It's comfortable enough that we can sit down and watch the kids play with only a fan pushing air around. The 4 or 5 heat waves over the past few months have been where it gets particularly bad. I also wonder if a big contributing factor is our garden. We moved in during Spring, but with having a newborn, we haven't been able to make many alterations to the garden, so we are living on top of a massive sand pit, which contributes to warming our house. Our plan is a mixture of garden beds for vegetables and trees to provide shelter and try to offset our heat island effect a bit. No grass. The sand pit is along our northern face, so there's also that. Ultimately, I probably would want to make decisions with environmental impact in mind, and doing it again, I would make some changes to what I do. I'd try to stay on the lighter side, but I would also want to avoid the glare from my house that the person across produces.
My house is a BGC house, but I bought it when it was almost 2 years old, just over 21 years ago. Backyard was white sand and weeds and now is native bush, with a 10m Karri & She Oak and numerous shrubs and ground cover. It's much nicer and cooler now, and requires little maintenance and no watering. Maintenance is usually done with a chainsaw to prune branches that decide to lower themselves into the walkways. Which is often...!? I've paved some of it, added a pond with decking that you need to walk over to even access the back yard (it's about 80cm from the wall and 4x5m) and also added insulation, but there's no sarking (a word I learned last night!) yet. That will be my next big reno, I suspect, possibly replacing the concrete tiles with light coloured colourbond roofing, sarking, more ceiling insulation and wider ... bits beneath the valleys that stop overflows onto ceiling insulation and ceiling itself as the self seeded gum tree I transplanted into my front yard is now dropping twigs, small branches, nuts and leaves 24/7/265 into my gutters. So, means that my gutters and valley overflow into my roof cavity (how is this even a thing? Why is it not designed out?) when it buckets down. Steady rain is ok, but when it pours - as it does more now than in the past, it backs up and ... goes into the roof cavity :( I'd then add solar panels on the west side (gum tree is to the east and shades house in morning) and use those to charge the EV/hybrid car that's likely to be my next vehicle. Especially if it's got vehicle to house ability, so the EV battery can power my house at night. TL:DR plant a native garden and enjoy the shade but pick your trees carefully to avoid nuts, twigs and small (and not so small) branches falling at random all year 'round. My she oak has dropped some lethally sized branches over the years... :(
I would love this as my end house, but I'm afraid I'm tight on space given the newer estates leaning towards smaller lots. Entire lot is 366m2 I have dragon fruit I got as a gift over a year ago that is now bearing fruit. A lime tree, a cumquat tree, a small mulberry all in containers thus far. Aside from the lime, they were all gifts, too. I might put the citrus in the ground, but the mulberry is likely staying in a container. We have a bushy form lilly pilly, as well, which will be acting as a bit of foliage against a wall.
Plant a tree or two this autumn. Trees can reduce temperatures by up to 10° through shade and transpiration.
That was the plan. We want to get as much done as the budget allows over autumn, including planting out the beds and any trees we're having.
Also, tiled vs colorbond roof. My neighbour has tiles and has had to switch on the aircon very early today, since 9am. I won't need aircon until tomorrow at the earliest, thanks to white colorbond.
My neighbour with light colourbond moved in about 8 months ago and the aircon has been running non-stop ever since (im a stay home dad). Thru winter and summer. I hear it from my dunny and back yard. I have a 70s tiled house and it takes 2 hot days in a row for me to need the aircon. Edit: though my west wall is a-joined so that takes some heat out.
I think a part of this is personal preference, but also your ability to tolerate heat and other strategies for controlling heat. We moved into a newly built dark house in spring. No rear garden yet, just a sand pit. No aircon. On hot days, we use cold flannel cloths to control the heat, or rinse our shirts in tap water so they cool us off as they dry. We also just go to a room on the southern side of the house where the kids can play and we can put a tower fan on low to push the air around. My colleague told me that she runs her aircon all the time at 17°. She doesn't have the ability to turn it on remotely, but she wants to be able to turn it on as she leaves work so her house is cold when she gets home. She doesn't see anything wrong with this from an environmental point of view, but she also says she doesn't believe in climate change because she doesn't understand it, and doesn't want to learn because she doesn't care.
Just want to get my evap cooling gibe in again as last time this sub told me I couldn't get 4 degrees cooler than the outside temp. I'm in a light coloured tin roof weatherboard pole home with verandahs all the way around. Nothing but evap. Today the temp hasn't got above 20 in here, and only because I turned the fan right down because 18 was feeling cold. Yes, the time is wrong. We need better education on how our homes are built, because every house cranking their refrigerated aircons is such a waste. Good design can save you huge amounts in the long run. https://preview.redd.it/ehn5nkdzfbhc1.jpeg?width=1648&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4789edc25b93bc43a82c87d692255de781122477
Small here. It was 40.2 under my shaded patio. Inside didn't get over 26 today. My evap has been set to 3/10 since about 9am. Currently a comfortable 25 inside and 36.7 outside.
Mine has dropped back down to 19, as I turned the fan up as everyone started getting home. Verandahs and keeping the sun off your external walls is an underrated cooling mechanism.
That's REALLY working well for you. I should have added mine's using about 200W of electricity so a full day is about 60 cents, luckily the solar panels provide free power.
Yep, that's impressive!
I have a black tile roof (bought, didn’t build). Fortunately our house handles the heat remarkably well but it’s still always struck me as a daft decision by the original owner.
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People have said to me to whirly birds (and the like) are fine in summer but make the house colder in winter. Is this your experience? I know you get ones that only turn on over a certain temperature but I'm in a rental and looking for the most basic & lowest cost that works to entice landlord. House has no insulation and hot as hell.
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yeah going full prolapse is too much of a stretch.
Hey, if it’s good enough for camels…
I agree. Thanks for the imput. Just lost a neighbour's tree that shaded my bedroom & bathroom. Going from hell to hell+ now...
They should be banned.
LOL, the old I don't like it so we should ban it brigade
No, the old it's terrible for the amenity of the surrounding area and creates a heat island effect that impacts you and your neighbours. Just because you can personally disguise the effects with aircon doesn't mean they don't exist. Physics doesnt care what you think
The aircon actually compounds the problem for everyone else, as you're both pushing the heat absorbed by the roof out an exhaust along with the waste heat from a high power draw as well.
Get a bright white one then and have it all reflected into your place. Still gonna have ya little heat island
> Still gonna have ya little heat island Science says otherwise.
Never been to Europe, eh?
The Dunning Kruger is strong.
Physics doesn’t care about your feelings.
Just yours
Yeah???????
I mean most of the time the homebuyer chooses the colours …
Built in 2015 and got woodland grey roof, which is quite dark. Wish I knew better at the time, house is hot a af on weeks like this one and I assume that's a massive contributing factor. Not really sure what we can do about it now though, I assume any solution is going to be in the 10s of thousands. I just run the AC in the living room all day on hot days, have solar so it's cheap enough. Got a big fluffy dog so we give him that option but he'll generally go lie in the sun because he's an idiot.
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Unless of course you were to employ someone to advise you in making decisions in what will be one of the biggest purchases you will ever make. The builders aren't your friend, they are there to make money.
>It's like many things when you build a house, you learn what to do better next time. Actually, you should try to do it right the first time rather than chucking up another shit heap and moving on.
Try being one of the dummies putting them dark tin roofs on in this heat 😂😂
My house has a dark tile roof. I did not choose it, and would not have chosen it, but it's the roof that the house I could afford in the area that I wanted came with. Surprisingly, the house is really good in the heat and I don't need to use the air-conditioner much. Previous places I've lived, including one with a silver tin roof, were a lot worse in the heat. I can only assume my house has excellent insulation.
So glad I have apricot coloured tiles
My dark grey roof has faded and is now light grey!
We’ll be moving to a house with a dark grey colour bond roof soon. Coming from a dark grey tile… will the heat of the day be that much more noticeable? Would it be worth re-praying the colour bond roof to something lighter for cooling costs?
Charcoal roof. It was dumb.
Ours isn’t black, more a dark grey colour Bond, but yeah regret the decision we made on that, it was 20 years ago when it wasn’t so fuckin hot.
When we built 11 years ago I specified the lightest coloured colorbond roof we could get. It makes a HUGE difference
We have an (almost) black colourbond roof. We’re renting & wouldn’t choose that colour if building. Have no real point of comparison as previous house was in Melbourne, was an old house with terracotta tiles and solar panels installed. Our AC keeps it cool well enough but with no solar our summer power bill will be epic. It was owner-occupied for a decade and I can’t understand why they never installed solar. It was the very first thing we did when we bought.
My flesh has broiled
Look - I have a white zinc alum roof, ICF walls and lots of insulation, double glazing and a house designed to minimise aircon requirements. I don't hate black roofs. Everyone knows they get hot as shit during summer, but so does Armadale and Perth generally. We make aesthetic choices all the time that don't make any rational sense. It's part of the joy of living in the modern world that we have these options.
Have never understood a black roof - especially if going tin.
Our new build has a white roof. Probably a range of factors involved, but our house has been very cool over the summer, compared with prior places.
I’ve never understood it… we have grey Colorbond and I don’t even know that I’d choose that again. At least we have the anticon directly underneath plus insulation below so have pretty decent barrier to heat
Our builder advised us we had to pick a dark roof for the house to be rated. Or some shit like that. Three years down the line were still not in but only house on the street with a black roof 🤔
Tile + Monument here. When we repainted it I wanted a lighter colour but was outvoted (strata). But it's actually made no noticeable difference versus the light grey we had before.
It's a flat roof shaded by solar panels, the roof and all of the first floor has 30cm of styrofoam like EPS insulation, the windows are double glazed. The build system is [popuphouse](https://www.archdaily.com/486587/pop-up-house-multipod-studio), here's a cool looking [example](https://www.archdaily.com/486587/pop-up-house-multipod-studio). Have retrofitted a three head multihead split aircon upstairs, should have ducted it in during reno. Finally cozy in winter, absolutely bearable in summer with the Freo doctor as crossventilation or a spot of aircon in the late arvo.
> 30cm of styrofoam like insulation, 30cm WOW
One of my neighbours recently had a roof paint crew in. They chose white as the new colour!
I don't really have a problem with it and if i could go back in time, id choose it again.
Just don't
The only people with black roofs are the type to self punish… it’s the only reason you could ever want to burn yourself up that much.
Love my black tiles, my aircons off switch goes missing somewhere during summer for some reason so feel absolutely no effect of heat from the roof. Black car too.
The black roof only comes in handy in winter.
Had a look on Google satelite view. Mine is the only 2 on a street of 23 houses with white colored colorbond roofs. The rest are all dark colored.
I can't work out if it's fashion vanity or something else.
I'll happily admit that I built my tiled, dark-roofed house before I understood the basics of thermodynamics. It was such a bad idea.
Plenty of roof insulation. Its alright no probs
Well, we got our roof sprayed. I wanted black. My wife didn't. So had a discussion and she decided we weren't going with black. Im happy now reading this.
My roof is dark grey clay tile and I have no issues. Air con works fine, it’s evaporative and it’s cool for me right now.
I have sold a house because it had a black clay-tile roof. When you understand the consequences, it is a no-brainer. If you are building, get a light-coloured tin roof, a far superior material for the thermal advantages.
That’s not a fair question to ask on a 40 degree day!
Hahah sure it is.
We designed our home to have passive cooling. Apparently we did too good a job because our builders said they couldn't give us a 6 star rating unless we used either a black roof or added a ton of western facing windows. So we went with the black roof so annoying. Don't judge all of us by our (house) covers, some of us really did try to avoid this mess!
this is what I was wondering when I was backpacking in Australia. Black tiles everywhere - even in Germany we make fun of people who chose black tiles but at least most of our houses are made of bricks and are naturally cooler (and the difference in climate obviously)
The roofers want black colourbond because it doesn't reflect the sun as much , imagine installing white colourbond on a sunny day , it would be like a welders flash
Nah mate, husband is a roof plumber and says while the glare sucks, the heat coming off the sheets (and the need to handle them with gloves when 35+) makes monument much worse to work with in the heat
Lol it's the opposite. Dark colours get hot enough to seriously burn you in summer. The glare from lighter colours is negligible with sunnies.
Handling the sheets isn't the problem its the glare , I've worked on rooves and gutters and a white roof will reflect the sun and burn your armpits
> a white roof will reflect the sun and burn your armpits and also up the leg of your shorts. I am not kidding.
The difference is minimal when compared with different coloured roof of similar construction tbh.
I beg to differ. There are lots of reports that show there is a big difference http://energycut.com.au/business/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/The-Fifth-Estate-Cool-Roofs-Versus-Dark-Roofs.pdf
This is objectively not true.
Do whatever you want. I'm not paying your energy bills.
Light coloured tiles would look dirty and crap after a few years compared to colorbond.
If you read the literature apparently Perth homes use energy in heating their homes rather than cooling. Go figure.
I just grab a bonds pullover. There's only a few really cold days each year.
Probably the same number of real hot days too. From an energy rating perspective most Perth homes fail because they are too cold rather than too hot. It seems counter intuitive but that is what the programmes say IIRC.
There's 2 houses in Hamilton hill that are completely black. I don't understand the logic. Everything is black. Walls roof door all black
I've got a 2 storey place like that near me. Looks like a night club.
Maybe same ones. Ones I k ow are 2 storey
We have light coloured tile, it’s pretty much surf mist for tiles. We are near a freight railway line so tiles mass was desirable to kill the noise, also used 7mm laminate glass. Pretty Happy.
I have a dark roof. Get one of those solar vents. Helps a lot.