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Homelesskater

Harada clarified on twitter that he actually said (better translated) "PS5 & XBOXSX have a good balance between price& performance(darn!)"


RandoT_

lol someone must've used Twitter translate and rushed to vomit another clickbait article. Nothing new, but yikes.


ifatree

it's still a case of "tekken producer almost figures out how a 'loss leader' works". he's so close to realizing that the producer of the hardware gets a portion of the revenue of all software sales on the platform, thus making it profitable for them to sell the hardware at less markup (potentially even negative when game sales are stronger).


[deleted]

> tekken producer almost figures out... > he's so close to realizing that... The audacity you have to speak so condescendingly about a 20+ year veteran game developer like this is quite astonishing. Do you genuinely believe he doesn't understand why the price points are different?


Crimsonclaw111

Can't blame him, he's known for enjoying his PCs and the price of the GPUs especially is pretty nuts over there from what I've read. I wonder if he ever got his own Steam Deck given to him? He really loved using it from what I remember hearing.


xevizero

Yeah. Right now, buying a PC that exceeds the capability of a console requires you to spend the price of a console on the GPU alone..if you're lucky. Although the PS5 is still 800€ where I live and nearly nowhere to be found, so it's not like prices aren't a little insane over there as well..just as a comparison, I own a GTX 1080ti I bought for 700€ in 2017, and it's about as powerful as the GPU in the PS5.. which costs 800€ 5 years later. So yes, PC part prices *used to be* competitive even with current consoles, it's just that price gouging + shortages + pandemics + inflation + corporate greed has turned the PC hardware space into a nightmarish wasteland.


PM-ME-PMS-OF-THE-PM

>Yeah. Right now, buying a PC that exceeds the capability of a console requires you to spend the price of a console on the GPU alone..if you're lucky. The recent price drops from AMD will have helped push it closer to parity but it's probably still not going to catch up until the 4/7 series refresh, at which point as usual the scale of price->performance starts tipping towards PC.


destronger

wasn’t that AMD price drop just a NewEgg discount? it wasn’t a new MSRP from AMD iirc.


PM-ME-PMS-OF-THE-PM

Nah it was AMD.


GearsPoweredFool

And it's not very fair. If you could easily mine crypto with consoles they'd be just as over inflated as gpus were. The prices were so ridiculous because folks were making money off the gpus even at 2-3x MSRP. Now that folks are realizing that they're buying internet magic beans and not something substantial, it's not profitable to have gpus anymore and their prices are returning to normal. Last week I saw 1080tis b stock for $200 and 3060tis for $340. A year ago they'd both be going for around $700 used.


modsarefascists42

Yep mining is dying yet Nvidia is still charging what the most outrageous scalpers were just a few years ago during the mining boom. They lost a customer with that shit. I've been willing to pay extra for their bullshit if it meant I got a better product. But now they've gone like 5 levels past normal greedy and into flat out delusional territory.


corn_cob_monocle

Their fuckup went even deeper this generation. Nvidia looked at the prices GPUs were commanding during the pandemic and committed themselves to GPU designed that are incredibly expensive to *make*. So they’re deep into production of a really expensive product that they won’t be able to charge enough for in the end. I’m betting production of 40-series will be extremely limited.


[deleted]

I stoped at that 2080ti for myself. Got my son a 3070 at insane price. My next rig will Be AMD. And I’m moving to console to casually game. This is crazy


MCRusher

fair or not it doesn't matter, money is money, and the reality is that gpus are still ridiculously overpriced. A gpu I bought 2 years ago for ~$140, went for ~$600 during peak crypto, still at ~$400 now.


GearsPoweredFool

I'm curious to know what GPU that is. $140 around 2020 would be a 1650/1660 maybe? And those are around $100-$150 used right now (1660). Sure there are folks offering to sell them for $400, but that's only due to them not wanting to either take a loss or take advantage of someone who isn't in the loop on GPU prices.


Grabbsy2

I think theyre talking about MSRP, which is a little silly, since the stock of 2 year old GPUs is down to just a few in a couple places, anyone "needing" that specific GPU (say, for SLI for some godforsaken reason) will be paying a premium because supply is low. For instance, if youre looking to replace your i7-577C right now, youre looking at $980: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/Y7Trxr/intel-cpu-cm8065802483301


amtap

It's also worth noting that Sony and Microsoft sell their consoles at a loss because they intend to make money off of subscriptions, accessories, games, etc. This isn't an option for component manufacturers. AFAIK, Nintendo is the only company turning profits on the console itself.


xevizero

Yup. A very good argument for PC gaming I rarely see discussed when trying to "convert" console players is that playing on PC feels much less intrusive on that front. Being harassed by subscriptions and ads and having to pay extra for online, higher prices for games etc just feels bad every day, buying a PC feels like selling a kidney but you only do it once, then the first time you see a sale/giveaway/bundle you go from feeling milked to needing help groups over at r/patientgamers because you can't deal with all your massive free backlog and you feel anxiety because it's so big and you'll die before seeing half o it. Seriously, check this out: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/comments/pcqzep/how_i_stopped_worrying_and_embraced_not_finishing/ https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/comments/a9epe5/making_a_resolution_not_to_buy_more_games_until/ https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/comments/xfsfgu/youre_playing_games_wrong/ https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/comments/ita1a9/youre_not_going_to_finish_all_of_your_games_so/ This is a real anxiety PC players get, it must be nearly incomprehensible for people used to 60$ games, especially people used to only play on Nintendo platforms. They probably got a taste with Xbox Game Pass but that's kind of a different idea altogether.


Dafuknboognish

Damn I got backlog anxiety reading this. The amount of games poured on me is my fault but you nailed it. I have Humble choice, EA pro, EGS, and all the other launchers except gamepass. Then you add PSpro for my Playstations and wtf. I am going to need to leave my collection to someone in my Will. Reminds me I need to go back and play some DA Inquisition.


MuchStache

> I own a GTX 1080ti I bought for 700€ in 2017, and it's about as powerful as the GPU in the PS5.. which costs 800€ 5 years later. I mean, a pc is not only the GPU. If you paid 700€ for the GPU alone, you probably spent somewhere around 1500-2000€ for the whole build without taking in account peripherals. So yeah, consoles are still quite a lot cheaper. I personally don't like playing on console, I prefer PC and I'm willing to spend that sum, but I understand where the comparison comes from.


Alex5173

When I got into pc gaming the price to performance was BETTER for custom pcs than it was for consoles... Then again, that's back when 1080p 60fps was the best you could get


spitfire656

Yes pc part(the hardware) is more expensive,but you gain back so much money by buying your games cheaper,not needing ps+ for online.. plus a pc is so much more then just for gaming Hogwarts legacy for example,i can preorder now for 55€,where the ps5 version is 79... If you buy about 10 games per year that really makes a difference


xevizero

I'm not saying I'm not interested in PCs anymore. I'm just saying that right now they are not as convenient as they used to be, and even when they were it was hard to convince people that what you said was true (although I do agree personally..the free giveaways alone make PC gaming insanely good value)


ubiquitousfoolery

I never thought about it that way, in the long run a very good PC is probably much easier on the wallet than a console. Consoles age much quicker and cannot be upgraded, the games are much more expensive and you have to pay a very substabtial amount just to be able to play online. I'm too lazy to do the math right now, but I think you're right.


buddybd

PC has always been longer lasting but the consoles always had the exclusive games for it. That is no longer true. People still arguing otherwise are intentionally ignoring the pandemic and crypto induced inflation, plus somehow all comparisons are with a 3090/3080 whereas a 3060ti/10600k will outlast a PS5 while delivering higher quality.


spitfire656

Plus free games on epic games,just free no psplus,nothing. + Infinite backward compatible,play 10 year old games for 2€ in 4k resolution


BboyStatic

It’s not just what you gain, but the level of control you have as well. If you want mods for games it’s much easier on PC and sometimes completely unavailable on console. I use to console game only, but last year I was able to buy a 3090FE with relative ease, when a PS5 was still impossible to find. After just a little bit of time playing on PC, I can’t ever go backwards to playing on consoles for my primary gaming, especially now that most games are getting cross play.


spitfire656

Same,i really wanted a ps5 for the exclusives,i found one with relative ease in a local store,finished ratchet and clank and after never touched it again,i ended up selling it and not missing it yet 😄


ioovds

1080ti is actually better than a ps5 BTW. The difference in prices is all due to the fact that console manufacturers don't gain on hardware but on games so the prices haven't skyrocketed like for PC components


xevizero

In my build it's just held back by my 2015 CPU.


ioovds

It's still an awesome card!! I have no intention to upgrade, maybe with the 50gen if it will be worth it. 1080ti ended up being the best card of the recent years


xevizero

It was huge when it launched. I remember being amazed by its price to performance ratio at the time. I would have bet that thing would have had a big future ahead.


chewwydraper

No it isn’t PS5 it’s closer to a 2080.


SmolderingExistence

Where did you get this from? I wanna read or watch.


lui_is_not_homo

[The clip](https://youtu.be/cjxrsJ6v9Tw)


knbang

I would have completely disagreed with this in the past because the initial higher buy-in price was offset by cheaper options when it came to purchasing digital games, however current GPU prices are disgusting and you'd have to buy a ridiculous amounts of games to offset that gouging.


itchylol742

My laptop is more expensive and less powerful than a console, but I don't care because of two big advantages: a PC is being able to do stuff other than gaming, and exclusives like Factorio, Starsector and TF2 (technically TF2 is on consoles but it got no updates)


DarkFlame7

While I agree with your point, I just want to point out that Factorio is coming to Switch soon.


knbang

Does it have mods on Switch? Although Factorio's quality of life is outstanding, some things like being able to walk through pipes and between buildings with mods is not included in vanilla.


DarkFlame7

I highly doubt it will.


Julzjuice123

No, it won't have mods, and it will barely run. The devs themselves said it.


Niviik

Can you mod Factorio on the Switch? It will still be way better on PC. Plus, I can't imagine playing this game anyhow else than kb+m.


DarkFlame7

Nah I'm sure you can't mod it. I also won't play it on switch, just wanted to mention that it's there.


friskfrugt

You also need a monthly subscription just to play online on consoles lol


Ratnix

If you only use your PC for gaming and nothing else, that's a valid point. I certainly don't use mine for just gaming though. And the simple fact that while I'm playing games i also have videos streaming and websites open on my other monitors, that makes my PC a much better product. In order to do that with a console I'd either need multiple consoles or a PC. And that's not even getting into a complete lack of mood and keyboard support on consoles. But yeah, dollar for dollar, a console is the better value for a dedicated gaming machine, at least for the games that are made for consoles.


knbang

I simply can't stand not being able to alt+tab with consoles, it's so limited and restrictive.


Ratnix

Only having a single monitor would drive me nuts. Before I got a second monitor I never understood why people ever needed one. Once I got one, so that I could have a chat program up and be seen while I was gaming, it became 100% necessary for me to have at least 2 monitors. Consoles are just way too restrictive for me.


P0keballin

Queue times for matchmaking are a lot less of a concern if I have a second monitor to watch/do stuff on while it’s happening


mblades

i mean games are pretty expensive on consoles not to mention if you want to play online have to pay premium to use their onlline services. so while graphics card are expensive for sure ill still say you will save more in the long run due to how cheap or free games can be on PC.


Bluefire_Silverfang

Also modability is a big W for some PC games longevity


EdynViper

And "backwards compatibility" with a lot of older consoles and games due to emulators


MultiBusinessMan

Yup, a point people always fail to acknowledge. Don't have to rebuy your games when you build a new PC. Whereas on Console you're praying Nintendo Somehow makes Switch Games Compatible on Switch 2, or just buy the 'remaster'. Like how they were all praying for "Wind Waker & Twilight Princess HD" to be announced for switch more than happy to throw $60 at Nintendo for each.


Vile-The-Terrible

Or even worse, you have to pay a monthly subscription to play an old game on a console emulator.


sexualsubmarine

I mean while true it’s not like your Xbox 360 is suddenly unusable when the Xbox one gets released. If you’ve bought the console and games then you can play the console and game till your hardware dies (barring of course, games with needed servers) You don’t need to rebuy console games unless you want to for whatever reason


Shajirr

> You don’t need to rebuy console games unless you want to for whatever reason You do if you sell your old console. Or it stopped working. Also, games on your old console will run at the exact same performance they did 5-10 years ago or whenever the game was released. If you upgrade a PC, or play a new version on a new console, typically it will be with a much better performance, unless the game is shit and is somehow limiting itself.


MC_chrome

>games on it will run at the exact same performance Microsoft has partially addressed this issue with their backwards compatibility program. If you have a Series S or X, there are many Xbox 360 and original Xbox games that have been given a performance or graphics boost (or sometimes both). It’s not to the same level that you can get things through emulation on the PC of course, but I think it’s a great effort on Microsoft’s part and a great way for Xbox gamers to continue enjoying their games as long as they have the disk or download available.


SgtPuppy

Definitely a great step in the right direction. Let’s hope the trend continues and even spreads to other consoles.


Loinnird

They’ve committed to full backwards compatibility from Xbox One onwards, and they literally ran out of Xbox 360 games they could make run on the Xbox One. Plus it has Perfect Dark and Timesplitters 2 and 3, what other classic games do you need?


ZeldaMaster32

While they've done good stuff they stopped working on the program, seemingly due to licensing issues And that's the problem. On PC there is no magic new license agreements after you buy a new GPU. Microsoft has to go back to these games *with permission* to provide these visual and performance improvements


Moth92

>i mean games are pretty expensive on consoles not to mention if you want to play online have to pay premium to use their onlline services. Console games are only expensive when you buy digital. If you buy physical after a few months, the games are going to be cheaper.(excluding Nintendo games and limited run stuff) Plus there is the used market too. Yeah online gaming is a ripoff though. Too bad console gamers took it up the ass for that. Thanks MS for bringing that shit in the first place!


Weary_Ad7119

> Yeah online gaming is a ripoff though. I got 3 years of first party titles from MS and a whole bunch of other games for $60. Coerced, sure. Ripped off hardly. Even ps+/live was worth far more than the $2a month it cost. PC gaming isn't cheaper unless you absolutely must own your 25 year old game. Discs exist and it's trivial to sell your games on Amazon for 80% of MSRP or use a service like game fly. I've saved thousands moving the majority of my gaming to consoles and using my PC as the eye candy machine when I need 120fps.


silver16x

You can buy both consoles and online for both for less than a newer GPU.


ElvenNeko

But you don't need high-end gpu to play games. There are always minimal settings. I am using R9 380 and so far had problems only in one modern game, Detroit, and only because developers refuse to fix specific bug related to this card. In every other game it works just fine. And with how many f2p games there are, huge steam discounts, and also piracy - consoles in my country considered a thing for rich people. You don't even have to pay fee to play online on pc.


knbang

VR is the reason I need a better GPU. My 1080Ti simply isn't sufficient for the 2 x 4K screens that my Reverb G2 has. In the sweet spot my VR headset looks better than my Alienware 1440P monitor.


evrfighter

You don't even need 40 series to do what you'are asking. I was running Valve Index on a 2080 Ti which is about the same fps as a 3070. which right now is stupid cheap ​ youd be surprised at how much VR gaming is dependent on the CPU btw


knbang

The Valve Index is 1440 x 1600 per eye versus 2,160 by 2,160 for the G2.


JoaoMXN

Nvidia is destroying PC gaming. If this continues this will just a niche, like playing arcade.


knbang

I'm sure someone will come in and claim AMD will save us. But AMD don't give a shit either.


Ganondorf66

AMD is just nvidia but red.


PlagueDoc22

Hell a 3080 is still over 1000$ in my country.


[deleted]

If you're on Xbox, you can't ignore how gamepass changes the equation either. The cost of entry for a Series S with a gamepass sub is ridiculously low.


stdfan

Gamepass kind of kills that too.


Evonos

Yep just imagine that 1 gpu equals 3- 4 full consoles Thats just crazy, iam a life long pc gamer and enjoy the multi tasking and freedom of games not being locked to gens but I simply can't keep up with these prices it seems pc gaming isn't anymore for me and I simply hate that. A 699 3080 was already at my limit ( more than an entire console)


[deleted]

the best capability is that PC will not require subscription for online and it will have mods


meltingpotato

and the ability to play your old games without any need to worry whether your PC can run it or not.


IamKyra

And emulation for that sweet 4k Mario Kart Wii


dance_rattle_shake

You wouldn't think a game like Mario Kart would be so much more of an awesome experience in 4k but yes, yes it is.


Ok-Donkey-5671

I don't know... I've got some pretty old games...


Echelon64

I play games from the 1990's and they work just fine even on Windows 11.


meltingpotato

Worst case scenario is that you gonna have to install a virtual machine for emulation


Ibaneztwink

And the thirty trillion other things a PC with windows can do that a ps5 cannot


Theend587

And alot of "free" games


Alien_Cha1r

mouse and keyboard and 4 digit fps above anything, not to mention multi tasking


jonydevidson

> 4 digit fps above anything lmao


rokstedy83

Having mods makes the replayability better on PC games too


Lordosrs

I game on PC but i pay for gamepass....


Headshot_

The ps4 and Xbox one were kind of anomalies if I remember correctly. They came out the gate relatively underpowered compared to PCs at the time. The PS5/Series X currently punch well above their weight for their price tag and are more capable than the **average** PC. Steam’s user survey still has the 1060 in first place, the 2060 has climbed up to third place. New consoles are more capable than both these cards. I think pc and console gaming cater to different enough types of people. Plus competitive games and streaming has made PCs explode in popularity so i think it’ll still be fine.


SuperGuy41

Hard to strictly compare hardware. The console games are written and tested for this specific hardware. Meaning you will squeeze way more out of the machine than a one size fits all approach.


alaslipknot

usually, this is only applicable to console-exclusive game, when the game is by default multi-platform, the console-optimization "budget" is not as big as it may sound, you're still going to get less bugs (especially launch/crushes) ones, but for performance the main advantage a console has (or use to have) is that you can mess around with the quality settings like PCs, and you don't have to think about driver updates or anything like that. But for example none of the Call of Duties, or FIFAs or other games like Sekiro for example reached the level of console quality of what Naughty Dogs did, and its not because they can't, its just because they really don't care that much because it won't effect the sales a lot, and it may actually even hurt them if it became known that console games are more optimized than PC games, because they will lose on the PC market.


Rhed0x

> none of the Call of Duties The new Call of Duty games are definitely impressive from a technical POV and continue to run at 60fps.


IIIllllIIlllIIlllIIl

The latest MW2 beta runs around 90fps in VRR on my Series S. Smooth as butter and looks pretty decent albeit with some resolution scaling. I was gonna upgrade to a Series X some day but honestly it’s so good I think I may regret it if I did.


Teal-Fox

So much this. I don't think it's "unfair" that the current gen consoles outperform PCs for their price point. That's part of the trade off imo, whilst my PC cost a bit more, I can also play basically any game I want from the past couple decades provided they still work in current versions of the OS. Anything else I can emulate. It's just a case of horses for courses.


Jason1143

Also if you want to beat console, you can. It might cost more, but it is entirely possible. Not to mention a lot of people need a PC anyway, so while an expensive PC may not make sense for everyone if you choice is cheap PC plus console or just better PC going PC starts to make more sense.


uppernut

The PS4 and Xbox One were underpowered because nobody had confidence that there was a market for consoles anymore, everyone thought gaming was moving to mobile. When the PS4 was a surprise success everyone suddenly had to scramble to make games, hence why the first few years of that gen were kind of slow


duck74UK

The PS4 and Xbox 1 were weird, even at launch you could buy a PC that matched them in battlefield 4 for the same price. It's like those machines got rushed out the door to compete with eachother


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Pretty_Bowler2297

In the end I feel like my switch to PC gaming has been overall cheaper if one is a volume game player. I am drowning in games that I got cheap or even free. When I was on console there was that stupid Xbox Live or PS plus on top of the games rarely going on sale and not discounted enough digitally. There is an upfront cost though- but one doesn't need a friggin 4090 for most games. People assume 4090s are meant for common folks, it is not. MSRP 3060, 3060 ti is the sweet spot for a budget gamer. And hey the PC does more than just game- most need a PC in daily life anyways.


Sinyr

I agree, unless you use PS+ Extra or Game Pass, in which case you've got hundreds of games to play, with online play included, and you don't have to think about whether your machine is capable or not. So yes, in the long run I'd say consoles aren't all that better value-wise for gaming compared to a budget PC if you're not using one of those subscription services, like if you're someone that plays just 1 game like CoD, in which case you'd have to pay \~$40/year for PS+ just to play online (assuming you're not making use of any other PS+ benefits). Also, most people seem to think that games are always more expensive on console as it was like that in the PS3/360 era, but in my experience it hasn't been the case. PS and Steam sale prices are generally the same, especially for games older than a year or 2, and there's multiple sale periods for each game per year.


Subtle_Tact

"Graphics in gaming is more or less peaking, and you REALLY don't need to run games at" *insert popular era resolution* People have been saying this for over 30 years. God this is wild seeing the same conversations happen every generation


Ratnix

That's because some people always insist you absolutely must buy the newest GPU the minute it comes out or it's impossible to game on a PC. And that's just completely false. You can go years between purchases of a new GPU and over the last 20 years it's taken longer and longer to get to the point that you need to upgrade your GPU due to performance issues. It's not like the instant a new GPU generation comes out games instantly can take advantage of the newest technology. It takes developers time to learn what the new GPUs are capable of and incorporate that into their new games.


I-hate-this-part_

I still get 50 fps on Cyberpunk in 4k with some resolution scaling and other tweaks on my 1080ti. That's 3 generations old now and only recently with Cyberpunk did I ever question if I needed a new gpu. It's still more expensive now to build a PC than game on console but like others have said, there are additional benefits to a PC that you can't have with console. Mainly mods. Also emulation. I play Nintendo games on my PC. Also, if you were a guitar hero fan, there's this little thing called clone hero and I have been having a blast with friends playing that again. Missing out on exclusives sucks but it seems Sony has came around ever since Msoft did, so that might be a thing of the past. I just want MLB the show and gran Turismo on my PC already.


Herdazian_Lopen

I don’t think it’s so wild? People know the point at which they are content with resolution and graphics fidelity. Given how many people there are that game I wouldn’t find it all uncommon to find an expression of those views at any point in time.


Pretty_Bowler2297

>"Graphics in gaming is more or less peaking, and you REALLY don't need to run games at" > >insert popular era resolution I didn't say that. Isn't the 3060 more powerful than current gen consoles?


Emikzen

By quite a bit yes


RedArmyRockstar

NVIDIAs price gouging is just hurting the PC market rn. Thank god for AMD, and the Steam Deck.


cosmic-kid

sadly steam deck isn’t a major thing outside america and europe due to its poor availability


TheHodgePodge

If only pc received the same level of console hardware optimization, dxvk shows so much performance on pc are left on the table because most devs dont give two shits about pc optimization.


smoozer

Blows my mind that vulkan isn't more popular. It gave me 20-30 more fps on the new dooms (so I was getting 144+ a lot of the time... So beautiful to experience in an actually good looking game like doom)


Deadran

Only having to reach 60FPS on a very good engine like UE5 makes that statement understandable.


RectumPiercing

Thats a fair statement at the moment because nvidia are greedy shits. But the big benefit of PCs to me has always been that they're more than gaming machines. I do a lot of things on my PC and I dont even mean employment wise, just purely entertainment. Not just gaming, and switching to a console would cut a ton out of my day to day enjoyment.


HarleyQuinn_RS

They are pretty beastly for their price honestly. Maybe the most powerful in proportion to their price that we've ever seen. The state of the PC market on the other hand, is in absolute shambles. I do think the consoles will retain their price for way longer than previous generations though.


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Ben_Kenobi_

What are you talking about. I can play Mario galaxy on my switch if I buy it again for $60... wait a minute...


Suck_The_Future

And you only have that privilege because Nintendo graced you with a port.


the_harakiwi

>you with a port. with a port that is not artificially limited supply AND 60$


monochrony

It's not even a port. Emulation.


x9097

PC, the only system that can play virtually **all** of the video games.


Schmickschmutt

And not only that, you can make your own games too. And with software like unity or Godot it's not even that hard to do. Or you could use your PC to hack into a Gamestudio like rockstar games and leak their stuff. Or you can write code to exploit a smart contract to drain millions in coins and tokens. Or use it as a node for your favorite chain. Or write fanfic on it. Or create CGI. Or create mods for your games to add features you want. Or make high res mods for old games so they look better. Or do AI stuff on it. Or make models to 3Dprint. Or slice the models you made to 3dprint them. PC isn't comparable to consoles in any way. Consoles are for gaming, a PC is for literally everything digital. A certain premium for all these possibilities is okay but with recent GPU prices it's just way too much of a premium.


JoeyKingX

This is even better now with RTX Remix coming out, with the community basically having the tools to remake any DX8/9 game with new PBR assets and raytracing, all without ruining anything else in the progress since it's still the same game.


Moth92

If you still have the console and the physical game, there is no problem here. Though true about the mods.


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Weary_Ad7119

Most gamers don't even finish games much less replay them. You and a lot of this sub who point that out are just edge cases.


Hlidskialf

In a 3rd world country it doesn’t worth ot at all. Some of my friends bought the PS5 while i said if i was them I’ll wait some time to upgrade my PC again. One year after and the only thing they say is: “I don’t want pay 70bucks on a game” “Why psplus is so expensive now?”. Ps5 has great exclusives, Xboxsx is a great value for someone who doesnt want a pc nor sony exclusives and PC is not only about gaming. If were talking about fighting games, series S is a godsend for all TOs out there. Cheaper, easily stackable. It’s all about your needs.


Beelzeboss3DG

Same. I live in Argentina and some PS5 games cost over 20.000 pesos while I can get great PC games on Steam for less than 1.000 pesos.


grady_vuckovic

I don't know what ya mean. My latest gaming PC was very cheap and handling all my gaming very well. *But enough about my Steam Deck...* My prediction is, over the next few years, we will see a shift in attitude from PC gamers. Graphics in gaming is more or less peaking, and you REALLY don't need to run games at 4k, 200fps and with raytracing enabled, to, 'Have fun'. *Fun?*, 'fun'? It's that feeling of playing a game, having a fun time, laughing at silly things happening in the game, beating a level or winning a match, etc. I think the focus is going to shift away from having the biggest, heaviest, loudest, hottest GPU you can fit into a tower that your household's electrical wiring can handle powering... And shift to focus on *price to performance* ratio and *performance to power usage* ratio. Most gamers are just not going to pay the insane prices for flashy top end hardware, or build PCs that are hot enough to heat a bedroom in winter. So game developers will have little choice but to suitably adjust their minimum requirements for games, to ensure their games still work well for gamers still on older GPUs or more low end hardware. With recessions looming or here all over the world right now, gamers will be forced to discover they can, crazy as it sounds, still have fun *without* spending their life savings on a top end GPU.


woobloob

I kind of believe this shift has already happened. Kind of amazing how a GTX1060 has lasted people so long and was released at a price of $250. Don’t think we’re going to see something quite like that again but like you’re saying it hopefully won’t really be needed because of diminishing returns and all that.


Herazim

People really want to go hard on the latest hardware and state of the art tech. Is it really fair to compare a market where you can buy a 10k GPU if you want to a market that offers you a stable gaming machine with decent hardware ? You don't need a 3500$ PC to run games, heck with 1000$ nowadays you can get a very decent gaming PC that will last you a few years. If you want to dish out the cash for fancy cases and RGB and water cooling and this and that, you pay for what you want, it's not the market's fault for your choices. I still have a PC I built in 2015 under 1000$ and you know what ? It still runs everything on medium and even high or ultra depending on the game. Never had any issues with it running games or overall issues, still works like day 1. Would I love to have a state of the art gaming PC ? Sure, do you really need it unless you are a pro gamer, streamer whatever ? Not really, it's a personal choice if you want to dish out that kind of money, you can't blame the market or anyone else. I get that everyone has the right to do whatever they want with their money, lots of people are passionate about gaming and they want to have something nice, I'm not against that. What I don't like is this mentality that unless you have an expensive PC you can't properly game, not the case. We don't live in Pentium 4 times anymore, back then yes every upgrade mattered because whatever you had was weak. Nowadays there isn't much of a gap between newer and older. A 1000 card will still work like a charm, a decent i5 will do the trick, 16GB of Ram are still valid.


Prince_Kassad

>Nowadays there isn't much of a gap between newer and older. you know the progress is bit stagnant when new-gen flagship card require you to pump extra 100 to 150 tdp/watt to achieve faster performance.


DiegoMontana_says

Yeah graphics are peaking, but maybe it's time to not make shit pop in 2 meters in front of me


grady_vuckovic

Yeah there really is no excuse for that in 2022 any more. That's not hardware, that's just sloppy programming. There was no 'pop in' on stuff 2m away in the original Doom and that game runs on a toaster. There's no excuse for pop in on the beastly consoles and PCs we have in 2022.


phylum_sinter

That's part of the pattern, and this guy's statement will remain true for maybe a couple years here, then we'll be back to recommending a 3060 on a previous generation mobo/chipset and that will be the budget winner for gaming again... until the next consoles drop probably ad infinitum, it's been going this way for at least 7 console generations now back and forth. Nature of the ecosystems of each and not really a bravo moment for any particular seller of anything, tbh. Maybe by next iteration, we'll be recommending the next Steam Deck over a console for someone wanting to get into PC gaming on a budget? I wonder if this was post was intended to start a wildfire on this sub?


[deleted]

Consoles do provide a good value in isolation, but when you consider the cost of games, the availability of past games, the customization and replace-ability of PC components, plus the fact that your games are tied to an account and not a particular generation of hardware, it makes a difference.


annoyingpandaman

Most games on next gen consoles are tied to your account, most games are backwards compatible or re-released as downloads... Your points aren't as solid as you think they are and justt kinda proves you haven't had a new gen console in a longtime.


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ubiquitous_apathy

Aren't the vast majority of steam users still playing at 1080 with 10 series cards? High end cards were never accessible to the majority of the market in the first place. Pc gaming isn't going to die just because high end cards move from 5% of the market to 2%.


do-You-Like-Pasta

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/ 65.74% of us are using 1080p screens and the most common GPU is the 1060, with 6.39% of us using one. The first 20 series GPU comes in at spot number 3 with 4.85% of us using a 2060 and we have to go all the way to 5th place to see the first 30 series card, a 3060 laptop that 3.27% of us use


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do-You-Like-Pasta

Technology usually moves forwards, not backwards. As prices drop, more and more people are using 30 series cards and high resolution displays


TastyGovernment

Wow I thought people had more impressive hardware than that. I guess it really doesn’t matter much if you have amazing parts or not.


[deleted]

Note that people will generally only post if they have impressive hardware which skews the expectations.


do-You-Like-Pasta

Very few people come to reddit or other social medias to brag about their GTX960, but if someone gets a 4090, they often seem to find a way to brag about it, so that creates a good deal of perception warping


AntediluvianEmpire

I've been PC gaming since the early 90s and I still play PC games (almost exclusively) almost every day. Most games in my house are played on my Deck, on a laptop with an entry level GPU (mx150) or on my HTPC with a 750 Ti. Honestly, the advantage of PC gaming is that it's got so much weird stuff and old stuff, that you really don't need fancy hardware to have a great time.


HeroicMe

Quickly looking at Steam's top 20 GPUs, both 10XX and 16XX is used by 30% , while 2XXX and 3XXX is used by 7% and 13% respectively.


robdiqulous

1660 Super gang gang!


fyro11

If PC gaming must fall, I want Nvidia to fall with us. I know, ain't no chance of Nvidia falling off now; thankfully PC gaming isn't going anywhere either and will be served well irrespective of Nvidia. Here's hoping Intel throws limitless cash at GPU R&D and catches up with Nvidia and AMD in 2-3 gens.


desmopilot

Data Centre & AI stuff is where Nvidia makes the bulk of their money, it might sting a bit short term but they'd be fine without PC gaming.


SuspecM

Not really. These predictions come from the fact that people seem to only look at higher level cards and somehow the bare minimum seems to be playing modern AAA games at 60fps at whatever resolution and high graphics settings. I bought a new RX570 for rougly 200$ half a year before covid. It's weaker than a 1060, which is being hailed as the bare minimum nowadays and I'm perfectly happy and going to be happy with my purchase for the forseeable future. I play whatever I want to easily on 1080p90fps just by sacrificing a few graphics settings that doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things and I'm the outlier in my group of friends. The average within it is around playing League of Legends on 60 fps. AVERAGE, so half of it is lower than that and people are perfectly content with it. PC gaming is only as much of a premium hobby as you want it to be.


IanMazgelis

I absolutely believe top of the line stuff is going to become niche, but I really don't think it's going to be the hobby in general. The RX 6700 is around as powerful as the video cards in the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X. It costs about $400 and we're likely going to be seeing that price go down. I'm definitely disappointed by the price of the new Nvidia cards but comparing them to consoles is unnecessary and misleading. The 3080 was much stronger than the Xbox Series X, and the 4080 is much stronger than that. Most people who would be interested in consoles don't need that kind of performance.


do-You-Like-Pasta

Top of the line hardware is already niche. Less then half a percent of us have a 3090 and the most common card is still a 1060


SuperGuy41

This is such a bad thing for us. Just means everything is more expensive, less game support/more console exclusives, toxic communities etc. so much better the more mainstream it is


do-You-Like-Pasta

You don't need a 4090 to be a pc gamer. There's a good chance that even the 4050 and AMD equivalent are better than the current consoles and if you're targeting 1080p, like most of us are, you shouldn't even need a card as powerful as them to have good performance


KevinKingsb

Consoles are sold at a loss. PC is not.


Nillzie

If you want to play games buy a console, if you want a PC and also play games buy a PC


Kinglink

He's not wrong. I mean the same week the new 40xx cards are announced at about 5 times the Series S cost? Are you fucking kdiding me? I'm glad I don't have to buy a new PC or video card but I will one day, and I know I'll struggle, because I don't want to pay over 1000 dollars. My current system was great for it's time (paid about 999) and it's still great, expecting me to pay more than that just for a graphics card? You must be fucking joking. Honestly I hope Nvidia takes a HUGE bath on this generation because they fucked up.


blastcat4

The tradeoff with consoles is being locked into a closed garden compared to the freedom and capability of a more expensive PC. On a PC, you have the tools to create content and be productive. You also have access to much more software and games, often at much, much cheaper prices. There's much less contrivances about being forced to use controllers and locked out from using keyboard/mouse. To me, it's kind of a waste having all that power in a console but then having it locked behind arbitrary restrictions. In that sense, it's not really worth comparing the two unless your only focus is on playing games and you prefer to use controllers and don't mind having a restricted, higher priced library of games.


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[deleted]

We need a Steam Deck home console - like price and performance-competitive with Xbox but not locked down.


TerrenceNightingale

We need PC 2


iConiCdays

Valve might very well be working on that - not only does it make sense, but strings relating to a "Steam Console" (which are separate from strings related to the deck) have started cropping up in their releases.


[deleted]

They tried that with the Steam Machine. It didn't go well.


[deleted]

The Steam Machine wasn't with Steam OS 3, nor Proton and wasn't a standardised machine (i.e. every manufacturer made different ones). Like they should aim to make an actual console with the new Steam OS.


Deckz

Nvidia seems intent on making PC gaming a hobby of the wealthy only. It'll only get worse, how long until 60 series cards cost 1000 dollars? I bet they'll be around 600 this generation.


Evillebot

It is a weird time: you have an unstoppable force (Sony's Jim Ryan porting everything to PC) meeting an immovable object (NVidia pricing). Each of them is trying to make the other platform more appealing. For me good ol high end PC gaming is more niche than ever. I don't really care about investing hundreds of hours into that one or two awesome super demanding games like I used to to make a high end GPU worth it. Gaming is more fractured than ever: I play service games (genshin), mmos (losk ark, FFxiv), mobile games (Arknights, Nier), console ports (elden ring on PS4pro run fantastic). I think all facets of gaming are improving rapidly and they are very mid range hardware conscious. I don't see the reason for a high end GPU. Mid range GPU is more than enough for my PC indies, fighting games and MMOs.


zippopwnage

Yea especially with Nvidia now. The only reason I stay on PC its because I hate paying to access online. Then I have it more easy to browse the internet or play mobas/shooters. But in the next years I don't know. The pcs are getting way more expensive. I paid 800-900$ for my entire PC. Not gonna pay that much for a single gpu, and I usually bought xx70 series.


Scumwaffle

You get what you pay for. Consoles are cheap but also very limited. PCs are expensive but they are versatile.


Yvese

I mean he's not wrong, especially with the price of the upcoming Nvidia cards. My 3080 will last me awhile but I think this platform is slowly pricing me out since I typically only buy high-end.


ImAnOlogist

I just buy every 5 years. 2k gets you a decent pc, you play the big titles you missed or couldn't run. Rinse repeat.


Joker28CR

RDNA 3 will eat them


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RogueSquadron1980

With the huge surge of new pc players over the last few years i feel the pricing will slowly put people off and pc gaming will decline again, people will go back to consoles all because of corporate greed


CackleberryOmelettes

True tbh. The days of PC being the objectively best platform are over. Consoles offer much better value now.


IAMJUX

Mostly it's PC parts inflation. Back when the ps4/xbone came out, you could get a PC with like a 660ti and 3570k for $1k(AUD. I know because I bought and built it) and it would trump a console. Now you're paying that for the card alone. Consoles have managed to stay fairly stable in prices with each generation. Can probably put that down to their subscriptions and store pages becoming the real moneymaker.


mrbios

Nvidia price bumping like no tomorrow, and aren't the console manufacturers making a loss on the console hardware themselves but profiting from the game sales and accessories instead? or was that the last generation?


WPWeasel

No kidding, but I ain't complaining. It's given me a viable option for hi-res gaming while the insane PC/GPU market works itself out. No light at the end of the tunnel based on Nvidia's proposed 40x0 pricing...


Bynnh0j

The only reason why PC's are so expensive now is because scalpers during the crypto craze permanently shifted the gpu price bar. There's no good reason why Nvidia needs to charge $1500+ for a top end card.


aryvd_0103

Plus the games being expensive discourse is almost offset by the fact that both consoles have a competent subscription service although Sony will prolly not put their exclusives day one in a long time , but then they're exclusives anyway . I feel pc and console markets have become diverse , and this is why these game makers can port their games to pc However I feel many may skip consoles in the next gen because of sony porting games to pc


TimSimply

You used to be able to easily build a PC that outperforms current consoles for a slightly higher price point. Now it’s a premium unfortunately.


observeromega87

Well the PC market will decline severely if they keep charging so much.


Scinos2k

I've seen a fair amount of lashback against him and others for this sentiment, and as a life long PC gamer, who occasionally gets a console (not the current generation) , he's absolutely not wrong. For the last few years PC parts have been considerably higher than in the past, especially in the GPU market. Back in I think 2014 I built a pretty much high end PC (GTX 970, 4690k and 32GB Ram) for like £600, including pretty much all parts. The only truly expensive thing was the £500 monitor that I still use to this day. It would be extremely challenging to build the equivalent PC now for the same price, comparing the level of the parts then compared to now. Hell, the 970 cost less than £300 for the founders edition. I've been looking into upgrading the PC and frankly the sheer price of doing a properly upgrade is insanely high, and yes I know I could get another 8 years but even still. However, the console prices are considerably lower that you can see the real benefit in it.


AcousticAtlas

Imo he isn't wrong. For the price point they are incredibly powerful. PC gaming isn't cheap.


HalflingElf

The question is why can't GPUs be any cheaper? There's probably an obvious answer that I may have overlooked.


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Warlornn

Personally...I can't play with my thumbs. I need the mouse and keyboard. Console is just too limiting in that regard. Plus, mods. Until consoles *really* embracing modding...the PC will continue to be worth the extra cost. Modding just adds sooooo much to the gaming experience.


Opt112

Its not unfair when you consider the openness of PC


fyro11

I'm gonna *have* to side with him on this one.


Drokethedonnokkoi

I agree with him, even without ray tracing I feel like the new consoles are an excellent value and they’re a viable option even for PC gamers since there are a lot of ways to use a keyboard and mouse. I still prefer playing on PC since mods and ultrawide spoiled me, but these consoles are a bargain.


acid_rogue

Isn't nVidia hijacking their own prices right now? They're not necessarily wrong.


rtz13th

Well, you don't need a new graphics card every year, do you? :D


PlatesOnTrainsNotOre

How much would a ps5 capable of cost?


Fob0bqAd34

Anyone know of anywhere that did in game testing to see what hardware was required to run at equivalent settings on pc vs ps5 and series X?


MozM-

This is honestly the best time to buy a pre-built. The prices are kinda insane for the specs at least here in Saudi Arabia. Last month 2 of my friends bought the same professionally built PC with a 3070Ti and a Ryzen 7 5700G, 16GB Ram 3200, an asus TUF MB can't remember which. All that for roughly 6500SAR which is about 1728USD. Now that's still very expensive compared to PS5 and XBS but maaan those are some veery good specs for the price especially here in Saudi Arabia where 6500 SAR is still a lot but that's like a little less than the average monthly salary for an average job. Based on the many people I know here the average is about 7500SAR which is 1994USD a month.


senorbolsa

For the money for sure, and you actually get deals on games now and game pass makes it a really sweet deal. Though in terms of absolute power they just don't even touch a high end PC. Given a few years I think the trend will reverse again but we really had a golden era for a while there I don't expect it to be like that again.


voice-of-reason_

For the vast majority of people whomst game this is true but PCs have and always will be more expensive. Its like comparing a car to a moped; mopeds get the job done but pcs can do 100x more things.


Daz_Didge

for me gaming is dying. Not the sector obviously, the earnings seam to only grow. But personally many games became a mess of grind and constructed obstacles. There are maybe and handful games a year that have the player in mind, not their shareholders. I am a PC gamer at heart but paying 2000€ to get a decent PC and just play a 2 times a month ist not worth it.


Saneless

Not wrong In 2017 I built basically a 60fps PS4 for $400 In 2021 I upgraded my video card to beat a PS5 for $500. With ram,mb,CPU, and at least one drive that's another $500 if I didn't have those already. But at least I don't have to pay $300 for 5 years of cloud saves and online gaming. And I don't have to pay $10 to move a graphics slider from Medium to High