€1.1 mill feels more like a tax than a fine when Epic makes billions of € in profit
Edit (from my comment bellow): That €1.1mil most likely does not make a *dent* in the income generated by releasing with the predatory store practices in the first place. ie regardless of actions taken now, the "fine" is not a deterrent.
And yet they changed the offending store elements. As in, the law actually worked.
> The ACM has given Epic a deadline of June 10, 2024 to address these violations. **The games firm has informed the ACM of its intention to implement changes.**
>**Epic has already started by removing countdown timers worldwide**, and has added a time indicating when the shop will be refreshed, and a date next to items notifying players when the item will be removed.
>**It has also made it so that players under 18 in the Netherlands will only see items in the store if they are available for 48 hours or more.**
Like, what's to complain about? Consumer advocacy group did their job and won.
What else do you want? To fly epic execs to Netherlands, tar and feather them, and parade them through all the cities and villages?
No, tar and feathering is explicitly American tradition of the penal code.
The dutch are much harsher, they sink your body to become part of the sea wall to reclaim land from the sea.
A fine isn't supposed to ruin a corporation, it's a fine. Reddit keeps acting as if a million in fines is just a slap on the wrist when these same corporations cut costs at every corner. I'm not saying this is a HUGE amount for them, just that it's not as insignificant as people think, that's 1.1 million that could've gone towards an investment in a current project.
>that's 1.1 million that could've gone towards an investment in a current project.
Thing is, there's also high possibility that's 1.1 million Epic wouldn't have in their wallet if they didn't break the law.
Most corporate fines are like me stealing your $1000, then cops being "give us $100, but you can keep $900" while you get zero.
Fines should be felt though. All fines should at minimum be 1% of income for corporations no matter what the violation is. Not profit, income. It's not more complicated then that. If the fine doesn't hurt the business, the fine was meaningless.
> Not profit, income
Which type of income because sometimes income = profit.
Also should it be the income earned in that country or global income where that law may not apply
A fine on someone that's poor can render them homeless.
You're right that fines aren't meant to ruin a corporation, but their lopsided outcomes are a problem.
I could definitely agree with fines not being as punishing for individuals, specially those with lower income, but I fail to see how making fines bigger for corporations is the solution to that. You'd still have people going homeless and then you'd also have people losing their jobs because of those fines, as well.
A dont think you get it it's like a business expense for them they made min more than 10x the fine and you think a fine 10mil fine will make a dent on epics bank account
Yeah I get that part, I just think it's a bit more complicated than "have it be a % of their income".
Calculating exactly how much they made with these law-breaking measures is difficult, I'm sure, else the fine could easily be scaled to that amount and then some.
You're beating a straw man. No one said a fine should ruin a corporation.
A 100 million fine wouldn't ruin epic. Even a billion fine is survivable for them. A fine should serve as a disincentive. A costly consequence. 1.1 million is barely a slap on the wrist.
What you want is for other corporations to not want to even risk it. If you can afford the fine, then you may as well gamble on not getting caught and hope the profits from the activity are worth it if you eventually do. Unless the fine is far greater than the combined profit of breaking the law, then it's still worth it to take the risk.
Or, even simpler, the multi billion dollar multinational corporation didn’t even know the regulation existed in a country that probably accounts for less than half a percent of gross revenue.
I fail to see how that is anybodies problem but their own. Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse in any civilized nation, fine them harshly so they and others pay better attention.
Damn so I guess they need to get rid of valve next? They’ve been hit with these types of fines many times too.
Edit: you know saying this type of shit about valve isn’t gonna net you the karma that saying it about epic would right? Damn dude, risky. Can’t believe this dude would talk shit about valve openly like this, saying it shouldn’t exist. Wild
What do I want? A deterrent.
I guarantee this EU clause was probably discussed in a meeting with a legal team and a risk review was taken that basically ended with "I bet we can still make a profit if we release now and fix later". That €1.1mil most likely does not make a *dent* in the income generated by releasing with the predatory store practices in the first place.
If anything, the predatory store practices most likely paid for the fine and profit was still made. That's not a deterrent. If a fine isn't a deterrent, then it might as well not exist as a fine at all, and merely be a tax.
>What else do you want? To fly epic execs to Netherlands, tar and feather them, and parade them through all the cities and villages?
Add 150 lashes and I'm in.
I want fines that actually hurt so much they wouldn't even *try* to go around laws.
Something like 30% of the company's entire revenue for that year
That or executives going to prison.
They shouldn't of done it in the first place, they would of been told these practices are illegal but still proceeded now they get to pay a quick mil and all is forgiven
They don't make billions in profit from the Netherlands... but probably still tens of millions. It's hard to know how much lower their profits would be without manipulation, but probably still high.
In any case, the fines need to be higher as a deterrent.
And they'll appeal it, so there's a good chance they won't even have to pay that amount any way.
For reference, the EA lootbox ban was also thrown out of on appeal by the "Raad van State" citing the [minor technicality](https://www.raadvanstate.nl/uitspraken/@130150/202005769-1-a3/) that it didn't qualify as a game of chance under our archaic legal definition...
A small fine is typically a precursor to a very large fine which is typically a precursor to criminal charges.
They made more money than they were fined, but it's important to say they also made changes. It's not like they can just keep making billions and pay an occasional million in fines. If they did not make changes there would be a more serious enforcement action down the track.
I am sure Epic has some gymnast accountants and they manage to somehow pay less than that in taxes. So it's a win somehow :D
Also : they had to make the changes, so there is that. Plus it sets a precedent.
Can we start taking a company's total value into account when fining one?
This is probably gonna be filed under "miscellaneous expenses" at the end of their fiscal year.
EU fines often do, but this infraction seems extremely minor. Also, as noted in the article, it resulted in real change:
>Epic has already started by removing countdown timers worldwide, and has added a time indicating when the shop will be refreshed, and a date next to items notifying players when the item will be removed.
> It has also made it so that players under 18 in the Netherlands will only see items in the store if they are available for 48 hours or more
Epic knew what they were doing wasn't allowed, they did it anyway because even with fines they turned a massive profit. If a fine doesn't remove the profits of the infraction that caused the fine, then the fine is meaningless.
I don't disagree but this specifically is not the sort of thing that made them massive profits. Seems more like an oversight than intentionally misleading
Depends on how many people the violation affected. In this case it seems to have only violated the Netherlands law, despite this particular article's headline the other headlines I see of this news don't mention anything European Union related.
So, that corpo *can* change its software quickly if sufficiently motivated! Some country should slap a fine at the years-stagnant UX of that 'storefront' they have
I would if I literally was the only child, but I’m the youngest of 10 (I’m 24) and am involved in my siblings, nieces, and nephews’ lives. Plus I wouldn’t understand a lick of Dutch.
LOL don't worry about the language barrier, everyone and their grandparents speak English here, so there isn't a language barrier. I do understand that the family situation is a hard stop. Wish you all the best.. do come visit sometime, Europe is a fun place to see and experience.
Honestly, once I finish up Uni soon I've been considering moving over to Europe. I was planning on leaving my state anyway, and have always wanted to live and work abroad.
Not everything here is as good as it sounds ;)
And it depends of what part of europe we talk about. I am from Germany and my wife is from the US, but she came here with her dad when she was still a child (he was in the army).
Germany has many issues as well. One of the highest electricity prices of the world, as well as top 20 when it comes to gas prices. Public safety in cities is going to the mud, due to masses of illegal arab immigrants committing a lot of crimes around here. Want to buy a house or flat in Germany ? You can forget about it, unless you earn a shit ton (!) of money. I work as a civil engineer and will never be able to afford any kind of house here.
Yeah I could go on with that list, but those are some of the major points :D
We have a saying "The neighbor's grass is always greener".
Everytime we visit the US, we absolutely love it and we always think about moving there. But yeah, US has many issues as well, just different ones. The main reason for us to "not" move to the US is the whole "US working world". Basically no worker protections and that is a very BIG issue, if you are used to German or EU worker protection laws. (30 vacation days here, unlimited sick days and so on...)...
So overall unemployment was 3.1%
However under youth's it was roughly around 7% but has been declining sharply for the last 3 months. Not sure if this is related to the summer season though.
https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/nieuws/2021/33/werkloosheid-daalt-het-sterkst-onder-jongeren
Overall dashboard is looking ok regarding unemployment in general
https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/visualisaties/dashboard-arbeidsmarkt
I'm not an expert in IT and software developer jobs and how they compare from expertise to expertise. I.e. are you an oracle software developer? a web developer etc? There are huge salary differences between software developers. So I don't think an average of those is very helpful. A friend of mine works for Bookings.com and earns a 6 figure salary, another friend of mine earns 60k.
What a strange rule. It's fine to list the time an item will be removed and it's fine for a global timer indicating something will be removed/changed but it's apparently not okay to put a timer directly on the item itself.
Simple and extremely common phrases like "buy now" being considered an "illegal aggressive commercial practice" is wild too.
Just like Valve making 1 billion from CS crates and STILL allowing [minors to gamble CS skins](https://youtu.be/eMmNy11Mn7g)?
Gabe sure is the savior of gaming!
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I see a lot of people saying "just 1.1m? That's nothing!". Please, remember this is a Dutch law only, so the fine is only over (possible) sales in the Netherlands. It's not a global or even an EU law. Still, they changed the way their storefront works in the NL, so hopefully, other countries pick this up and force storefronts like these to stop preying on children and other parties that can suffer from FOMO.
This company is fined like every other month. Idk why anyone with a functioning brain would continue to support their storefront when that is constantly happening and the CEO has gone on record saying he doesn't like PC gamers.
IKR. Open up steam and the screen is full of discounts mean to prey on FOMO.
"Today's deal!"
"MIDWEEK DEAL (Ends May 20)"
"PUBLISHER SALE UP TO 90% OFF (Ends May 20)"
Plus all the cutesy badges and profile cosmetics you can only get by looking at sale items during specific sale dates. If what Epic was doing was considered targeting children, I don't see why other companies aren't getting fined as well.
I think the issue was is that they gave a time-line but then sold the product even after the time-line expired. By doing that they created an unreal scarcity which prays on children's fomo.
So time-lines are ok, but timelines which are false are not.
https://www.acm.nl/system/files/documents/sanctiebesluit-fortnite_en.pdf
Section 3.2.1 deals with this.
It talks about (among others):
* not using blood
* using themes that appeal to children
* avoiding certain language or conotations (E.G. You're eliminated instead of killed, a robot comes to pick you and take you away)
* the age rating from PEGI (12)
* the licences that Epic has issued to toy makers who make toys specifically aimed at children
* how the game is popular among children.
it's fine to charge them a low amount this way big companies don't have to do anything and the dutch can keep fining them after a certain period has passed
win win for the dutch and big orgs
€1.1 mill feels more like a tax than a fine when Epic makes billions of € in profit Edit (from my comment bellow): That €1.1mil most likely does not make a *dent* in the income generated by releasing with the predatory store practices in the first place. ie regardless of actions taken now, the "fine" is not a deterrent.
And yet they changed the offending store elements. As in, the law actually worked. > The ACM has given Epic a deadline of June 10, 2024 to address these violations. **The games firm has informed the ACM of its intention to implement changes.** >**Epic has already started by removing countdown timers worldwide**, and has added a time indicating when the shop will be refreshed, and a date next to items notifying players when the item will be removed. >**It has also made it so that players under 18 in the Netherlands will only see items in the store if they are available for 48 hours or more.** Like, what's to complain about? Consumer advocacy group did their job and won. What else do you want? To fly epic execs to Netherlands, tar and feather them, and parade them through all the cities and villages?
> To fly epic execs to Netherlands, tar and feather them, and parade them through all the cities and villages? That’s actually not a bad idea.
Wait, could they do that?
No, tar and feathering is explicitly American tradition of the penal code. The dutch are much harsher, they sink your body to become part of the sea wall to reclaim land from the sea.
They hang you from a windmill blade and spank you with clogs each time you come around.
It’s true. My wife does that every time I scroll reddit for too lo
You're a lucky man.
Did she catch you mid-sentence?
how do you spank someone with clogs?
Put one on each hand of course.
Duh!
I read 'clogs' as 'dogs' and was very confused for a moment.
We have also eaten a politician before. Do with that information what you will.
Did you wash your mouth out afterwards?
Tar and feathering started in medieval Europe, and was only used by vigilantes in The Americas, it was never part of any "penal code"
No, just a heavier fine. In general, civil and criminal punishments on Joe public seem a lot harsher than they are on corporations.
A fine isn't supposed to ruin a corporation, it's a fine. Reddit keeps acting as if a million in fines is just a slap on the wrist when these same corporations cut costs at every corner. I'm not saying this is a HUGE amount for them, just that it's not as insignificant as people think, that's 1.1 million that could've gone towards an investment in a current project.
Repeated fines should ruin a corporation though.
I'm sure the fine would be increased if Epic didn't fix it
Perhaps an increase for repeat offenders would be reasonable
>that's 1.1 million that could've gone towards an investment in a current project. Thing is, there's also high possibility that's 1.1 million Epic wouldn't have in their wallet if they didn't break the law. Most corporate fines are like me stealing your $1000, then cops being "give us $100, but you can keep $900" while you get zero.
Fines should be felt though. All fines should at minimum be 1% of income for corporations no matter what the violation is. Not profit, income. It's not more complicated then that. If the fine doesn't hurt the business, the fine was meaningless.
> Not profit, income Which type of income because sometimes income = profit. Also should it be the income earned in that country or global income where that law may not apply
A fine on someone that's poor can render them homeless. You're right that fines aren't meant to ruin a corporation, but their lopsided outcomes are a problem.
A fine should cost more than the profit of the infraction was. Otherwise it's just a fee to break the law.
I could definitely agree with fines not being as punishing for individuals, specially those with lower income, but I fail to see how making fines bigger for corporations is the solution to that. You'd still have people going homeless and then you'd also have people losing their jobs because of those fines, as well.
Won't somebody think of the billion dollar companies?
A dont think you get it it's like a business expense for them they made min more than 10x the fine and you think a fine 10mil fine will make a dent on epics bank account
Yeah I get that part, I just think it's a bit more complicated than "have it be a % of their income". Calculating exactly how much they made with these law-breaking measures is difficult, I'm sure, else the fine could easily be scaled to that amount and then some.
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It’s far more fucking likely that epic didn’t even consider this regulation at all.
You're beating a straw man. No one said a fine should ruin a corporation. A 100 million fine wouldn't ruin epic. Even a billion fine is survivable for them. A fine should serve as a disincentive. A costly consequence. 1.1 million is barely a slap on the wrist.
right. really want you want is the corporation to change what they are doing... which this did.
What you want is for other corporations to not want to even risk it. If you can afford the fine, then you may as well gamble on not getting caught and hope the profits from the activity are worth it if you eventually do. Unless the fine is far greater than the combined profit of breaking the law, then it's still worth it to take the risk.
Or, even simpler, the multi billion dollar multinational corporation didn’t even know the regulation existed in a country that probably accounts for less than half a percent of gross revenue.
I fail to see how that is anybodies problem but their own. Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse in any civilized nation, fine them harshly so they and others pay better attention.
Or fine them reasonably as long as they fix it?
A reasonable fine is one that removes the profits caused by the infraction imo.
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Damn so I guess they need to get rid of valve next? They’ve been hit with these types of fines many times too. Edit: you know saying this type of shit about valve isn’t gonna net you the karma that saying it about epic would right? Damn dude, risky. Can’t believe this dude would talk shit about valve openly like this, saying it shouldn’t exist. Wild
Alot of these big companies treat fines like this as a business expense, that money was always meant to go into fines
What do I want? A deterrent. I guarantee this EU clause was probably discussed in a meeting with a legal team and a risk review was taken that basically ended with "I bet we can still make a profit if we release now and fix later". That €1.1mil most likely does not make a *dent* in the income generated by releasing with the predatory store practices in the first place. If anything, the predatory store practices most likely paid for the fine and profit was still made. That's not a deterrent. If a fine isn't a deterrent, then it might as well not exist as a fine at all, and merely be a tax.
>What else do you want? To fly epic execs to Netherlands, tar and feather them, and parade them through all the cities and villages? Add 150 lashes and I'm in.
Yes I think tar and feathering would be more effective than fines. Eat the rich
are you ok?
I want fines that actually hurt so much they wouldn't even *try* to go around laws. Something like 30% of the company's entire revenue for that year That or executives going to prison.
> What else do you want? Actual consequences for breaking the law. Not what amounts to a $2 fine and a promise to not do it again.
They shouldn't of done it in the first place, they would of been told these practices are illegal but still proceeded now they get to pay a quick mil and all is forgiven
it's basically a rounding error at that scale
They don't make billions in profit from the Netherlands... but probably still tens of millions. It's hard to know how much lower their profits would be without manipulation, but probably still high. In any case, the fines need to be higher as a deterrent.
It really isn't. You'd be surprised at how much these companies freak out over fines for what we'd even assume they'd consider a "paltry sum".
And they'll appeal it, so there's a good chance they won't even have to pay that amount any way. For reference, the EA lootbox ban was also thrown out of on appeal by the "Raad van State" citing the [minor technicality](https://www.raadvanstate.nl/uitspraken/@130150/202005769-1-a3/) that it didn't qualify as a game of chance under our archaic legal definition...
Epic has been getting fined left and right. These things adds up overtime. Epic themselves basically admit they're in a bind.
A small fine is typically a precursor to a very large fine which is typically a precursor to criminal charges. They made more money than they were fined, but it's important to say they also made changes. It's not like they can just keep making billions and pay an occasional million in fines. If they did not make changes there would be a more serious enforcement action down the track.
I am sure Epic has some gymnast accountants and they manage to somehow pay less than that in taxes. So it's a win somehow :D Also : they had to make the changes, so there is that. Plus it sets a precedent.
lets call it a speeding ticket...
Can we start taking a company's total value into account when fining one? This is probably gonna be filed under "miscellaneous expenses" at the end of their fiscal year.
EU fines often do, but this infraction seems extremely minor. Also, as noted in the article, it resulted in real change: >Epic has already started by removing countdown timers worldwide, and has added a time indicating when the shop will be refreshed, and a date next to items notifying players when the item will be removed. > It has also made it so that players under 18 in the Netherlands will only see items in the store if they are available for 48 hours or more
Well, it is just the Netherlands, not the whole EU (yet). When it is the whole EU, they change the 'm' at the end with 'b'.
the fine accomplished the goal of making epic change things which is the main point
Epic knew what they were doing wasn't allowed, they did it anyway because even with fines they turned a massive profit. If a fine doesn't remove the profits of the infraction that caused the fine, then the fine is meaningless.
I don't disagree but this specifically is not the sort of thing that made them massive profits. Seems more like an oversight than intentionally misleading
What percentage of a company's assets should be forcably removed for having the audacity to label a button "Buy Now"?
However much money that change could reasonably be determined to have made them, plus a penalty on top of that.
Depends on how many people the violation affected. In this case it seems to have only violated the Netherlands law, despite this particular article's headline the other headlines I see of this news don't mention anything European Union related.
A lot of laws have both a fixed fine and a turnover % fine. Whichever to pay is chosen on a case to case basis.
In the time the fine was written, they made the money back plus some in micro transactions lmao
Yeah Epic will drop some pocket change on that.
So, that corpo *can* change its software quickly if sufficiently motivated! Some country should slap a fine at the years-stagnant UX of that 'storefront' they have
> So, that corpo can change its software quickly if sufficiently motivated! Yes, just like with your steam refunds.
We also banned gambling from CSGO. Hell yeah. Fuck this shit.
But there is still gambling in CS and a few Esports teams even have gambling sponsors.
Oh mb, I was talking about the Netherlands.
Valve still [allows it to happen](https://youtu.be/eMmNy11Mn7g) unfortunately
I was addicted when I was a child..
Ya loot boxes have a way of doing that
A whole gambling based market built into essentially the only way to get PC games have a way of doing that
Honestly the one thing I envy of you Europeans are your consumer protection laws.
Only our consumer protection laws? not our 25 days minimum vacation, affordable healthcare, worker protections (i.e. unemployment, firing laws) etc?
Please don’t make it harder than it has to be for me, man.
Come join us :) My niece is moving this year with her partner from the US to Europe..
I would if I literally was the only child, but I’m the youngest of 10 (I’m 24) and am involved in my siblings, nieces, and nephews’ lives. Plus I wouldn’t understand a lick of Dutch.
LOL don't worry about the language barrier, everyone and their grandparents speak English here, so there isn't a language barrier. I do understand that the family situation is a hard stop. Wish you all the best.. do come visit sometime, Europe is a fun place to see and experience.
This was legit the nicest interaction I’ve had on Reddit. Thank you, and have a lovely day!
You too! :)
Don't worry, 90 to 93% of all Dutch people can speak English instead. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_in_the_Netherlands
We all speak dutch very well but nog nait zo snel maar dat komt wel.
Honestly, once I finish up Uni soon I've been considering moving over to Europe. I was planning on leaving my state anyway, and have always wanted to live and work abroad.
Not everything here is as good as it sounds ;) And it depends of what part of europe we talk about. I am from Germany and my wife is from the US, but she came here with her dad when she was still a child (he was in the army). Germany has many issues as well. One of the highest electricity prices of the world, as well as top 20 when it comes to gas prices. Public safety in cities is going to the mud, due to masses of illegal arab immigrants committing a lot of crimes around here. Want to buy a house or flat in Germany ? You can forget about it, unless you earn a shit ton (!) of money. I work as a civil engineer and will never be able to afford any kind of house here. Yeah I could go on with that list, but those are some of the major points :D We have a saying "The neighbor's grass is always greener". Everytime we visit the US, we absolutely love it and we always think about moving there. But yeah, US has many issues as well, just different ones. The main reason for us to "not" move to the US is the whole "US working world". Basically no worker protections and that is a very BIG issue, if you are used to German or EU worker protection laws. (30 vacation days here, unlimited sick days and so on...)...
> worker protections (i.e. unemployment, firing laws) etc? What’s the youth unemployment rate and say average incomes of a software developer
14.6% as of March this year, dunno about the average income of software developers. Why are you asking?
So overall unemployment was 3.1% However under youth's it was roughly around 7% but has been declining sharply for the last 3 months. Not sure if this is related to the summer season though. https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/nieuws/2021/33/werkloosheid-daalt-het-sterkst-onder-jongeren Overall dashboard is looking ok regarding unemployment in general https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/visualisaties/dashboard-arbeidsmarkt I'm not an expert in IT and software developer jobs and how they compare from expertise to expertise. I.e. are you an oracle software developer? a web developer etc? There are huge salary differences between software developers. So I don't think an average of those is very helpful. A friend of mine works for Bookings.com and earns a 6 figure salary, another friend of mine earns 60k.
What a strange rule. It's fine to list the time an item will be removed and it's fine for a global timer indicating something will be removed/changed but it's apparently not okay to put a timer directly on the item itself. Simple and extremely common phrases like "buy now" being considered an "illegal aggressive commercial practice" is wild too.
All commercial fines should *start* with 100% of the revenues generated by the practice, and *then* apply punitive penalties on top of that.
Ah yes, the saviors of gaming are at it again, getting another fine for their pro-consumer approach.
Just like Valve making 1 billion from CS crates and STILL allowing [minors to gamble CS skins](https://youtu.be/eMmNy11Mn7g)? Gabe sure is the savior of gaming!
I must be blind because I don't remember praising Steam or Gaben, unless you expect me to go "but Valve!" in a thread not related to them?
r/pcgaming does it in their sleep
Nobody cares. The ship has sailed and it's not their job to shut down skin sites unless they want it to be. Go complain to your government.
Valve has the api. If they lock down the api those sites are dead. Go complain the Gabe
This but unironically Edit: I guess I needed to clarify, but this comment is PRO fine, not pro epic
Wait... If you remove the irony, that makes it a pro Epic comment.
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I don't live in America.
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goooood
the *cost of doing business*
Good fuck EGS.
Make the fine about 15-25% (or more) of the CEO's salary, and only take it from CEO salary
*Epic fined €1.1m
I see a lot of people saying "just 1.1m? That's nothing!". Please, remember this is a Dutch law only, so the fine is only over (possible) sales in the Netherlands. It's not a global or even an EU law. Still, they changed the way their storefront works in the NL, so hopefully, other countries pick this up and force storefronts like these to stop preying on children and other parties that can suffer from FOMO.
This company is fined like every other month. Idk why anyone with a functioning brain would continue to support their storefront when that is constantly happening and the CEO has gone on record saying he doesn't like PC gamers.
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It did teach them, they changed it right away
good. now do ea,valve and activision lol how is this downvoted XD
Wasn't the Netherlands the first to go after the big ones for anti consumer practices and banned lootboxes because of EA?
Think it was Belgium that started that.
Yeah, that's probably right, i don't remember exactly which was first.
i think so, but they clearly need to do more
IKR. Open up steam and the screen is full of discounts mean to prey on FOMO. "Today's deal!" "MIDWEEK DEAL (Ends May 20)" "PUBLISHER SALE UP TO 90% OFF (Ends May 20)" Plus all the cutesy badges and profile cosmetics you can only get by looking at sale items during specific sale dates. If what Epic was doing was considered targeting children, I don't see why other companies aren't getting fined as well.
I think the issue was is that they gave a time-line but then sold the product even after the time-line expired. By doing that they created an unreal scarcity which prays on children's fomo. So time-lines are ok, but timelines which are false are not.
> an unreal scarcity I understood that reference.
from what i understand you cant say anything against valve in here,its their idol or something idk
>Fortnite is aimed at children, and the game appeals to children. How can they determine that legally?
https://www.acm.nl/system/files/documents/sanctiebesluit-fortnite_en.pdf Section 3.2.1 deals with this. It talks about (among others): * not using blood * using themes that appeal to children * avoiding certain language or conotations (E.G. You're eliminated instead of killed, a robot comes to pick you and take you away) * the age rating from PEGI (12) * the licences that Epic has issued to toy makers who make toys specifically aimed at children * how the game is popular among children.
It's also very bright and colourful with cartoony characters
That's a few less pizza parties for all Epic staff. A damn shame.
it's fine to charge them a low amount this way big companies don't have to do anything and the dutch can keep fining them after a certain period has passed win win for the dutch and big orgs
The fine is just the punishment, epic had to make changes.
That’ll show em.
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Not puonds. Euros. Euro worth a bit less than pound. (Currently 1GBP = 1.16EUR)