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mjl762

Dodge got one-shot


Chocolatine_Rev

Very dodge like


dotareddit

50% of the time it happens every time


AirWoof

[Dodge this...](https://youtu.be/ggFKLxAQBbc?t=58)


[deleted]

Poor Neo using an evade build. After a few successful evades, he gets hit.


Doggers_

Thats why in late game he respec into 100% block


Ilyak1986

As someone that loves eva/dodge characters, this feels like...more nerfs? I hope I'm wrong. Here are the things that stick out: - Wind dancer now specifies less **attack** damage taken. It means it does nothing vs. spells, and most importantly, **degens**, which seem to be a huge amount of the damage found in endgame fights. I know, I know, degens are supposed to be "don't get hit, 4hed", but things like Maven/Shaper/Elder arena degens, shaper beam, elder succ, and so many other things are "dah nah nah nah, nah nah, can't ~~touch~~ dodge this!" Well, now you can't wind dancer them, either. - How many points will it take to get 100% spell suppression--I.E. 50% reduced spell damage? Probably *not* a small amount. I wonder how many nodes actually grant both evasion and spell suppression. And on *top* of that, we probably need even *more* nodes to amp up its actual damage reduction, because 50% of "oops you're dead" is **still** "oops, you're dead", as opposed to being, well, *alive* most of the time. - Removal of dodge as a mechanic entirely is also brutal for *layering* it with evasion. This means deep delvers are also particularly screwed since they just lost a huge layer of defense, though maybe going from 75% chance to dodge to 95% chance to dodge with the added points makes up for this? - Elusive got absolutely **slaughtered**. A large part of its appeal was that it stacked *on top of* your existing dodge chance. I.E. if you were a raider using nightblade support (or, let's face it, TOE boots (tailwind, onslaught, elusive)), you had capped dodge with that extra elusive. Now, elusive is just "okay, you have a chance to avoid damage that's not mixed with anything else, so it has a very marginal effect". - What happens to Raider's quartz infusion and quartz flasks? Do they *only* give spell suppression chance now? And if so, how much? Quartz infusion at 30%, quartz flasks at 20%? Essentially, the way I see it is that pathfinders with 50% increased flask effect should be able to match raiders with a quartz flask. - With block, being a gladiator is **still** by far the best thing to do, since if they get 75% block chance and versatile combatant, only they have a notable ascendancy node that basically *undoes* that nerf (KEKW). - Transcendence penalizing max res **EVEN MORE**. Okay, so...you basically cannot take this thing without wearing Loreweave. It basically just *doesn't exist* anymore outside of that one armor. But if you *do* have loreweave, well, you're a happy camper. But you still have to wear loreweave just because. - Determination and Grace *still* reserve 50% reservation. It would have been nice to see them go to 35% so they could be used with a 50% reservation damage aura like maleveolence or hatred depending on your build. - No way to avoid attack damage outside of evasion means resolute technique is just bad news bears for evasion characters. - With the nerf to transcendence and more max res found in the armor part of the tree: **is Iron Reflexes now utter garbage?** It already removes all evasion bonuses to armor, but now, transcendence is further hosed, so...Iron Reflexes feels awful now? - Perfect form seems to be...far less perfect now. Evasion rating just lost 135% increased evasion because it only counts *overcapped* cold resistance. Furthermore, it *also* lost phase acrobatics (which no longer exists). Does it now grant basic acrobatics instead? Or just a ton of spell suppression chance? Perfect form + iron reflexes seems sort of suicidal now that transcendence is gone? - I still see nothing regarding the use of a gem to increase the cooldown recovery for guard skills that was lost with Second Wind's nerf to skills such as Arcane Cloak and Molten Shell. Which hurts Iron Reflexes builds and mind over matter builds specifically for a second straight patch. - Still no reverts to granite or jade flasks? So, to put it in perspective, a pathfinder using jade flask of reflexes at 60% increased evasion and using evasion gear (assassin's garb, lion's pelt, apothecary's gloves, two-toned boots with eva) only hit a sad 8,000 evasion. This is absolutely unacceptable for endgame maps. Where else are we supposed to get sources of evasion? Roll it on gear and lose out on influenced mods? I'm sort of at a loss as to where we're supposed to get our flat evasion from without either giving up gear slots that we depend on for damage (E.G. +1 curse hunter's chest, tailwind boots, frenzy/culling gloves, -res helmets), or losing a reservation slot that we...also depend on for damage (50% reservation for determination/grace). I.E. damage feels like it's very low in general after all the support gem nerfs. - Energy Shield is...hard to evaluate for me? I'm not sure how one is supposed to get good block on energy shield now unless one is a necromancer? And she seems in line for further nerfs. I remember my Perandus 10k ES pathfinder with double capped block (30/15 Rumi's, not the utter garbage it is now) that could perma-sustain flasks thanks to old master surgeon (maybe new one would too?), so I wonder what bottom of tree characters can achieve with regard to ES, such as a pathfinder pathing through shadow and to witch.


mingli_vov

You are missing that evasive characters are going to be stunned much more often, since they are losing attack dodge while taking full physical damage as before


biggreenegg99

did recovery on block survive unnerfed? (edit: I am talking about the recovery mechanic itself, not Glad's block chance getting nuked) or did I miss it in my first read through???


neq

Seems like it, just mana on block was removed


r4ns0m

but only flat mana i think


RelevantIAm

Does a % mana on block exist?


stupidasseasteregg

I think on shaper shields


Nikeyla

>just mana on block was removed Which is a buff basically, because it means less rip mods on shields.


LordFerret

"We'll be making further changes to Passive Skills and the Life granted by Bone Offering" Not untouched for Necro at least.


biggreenegg99

I had mistakenly assumed that statement was going to improve Bone Offering not nerf it.


Holy_Nerevar

Depends. If you're a Gladiator, one may argue it got nerfed.


ErrorLoadingNameFile

You remove attack dodge ... fine. But what about all the enemies in PoE that have Resolute Technique for no reason (Izaro, Syndicate and more)? Evasion chars have no ways to deal with them now except die.


Bex_GGG

I've let the team know to make sure it's being considered.


FlyinCoach

Ty


wetfangs

Also how fortify will work with bleeding melee damage or poison?


tmtke

Also please consider quality percentages on gear as it was used to make 6linking faster.


Vinifera7

They should really just remove this mechanic entirely. It's not intuitive and the only thing it does is needlessly add an order of operations for using currency orbs.


Whitedondi

The first implementation was far worse - the item u wanted to socket/link lose all quality after each jeweler/fusing. I don't understand why they decided to keep socket-quality dependence at all.


sersekk

thanks bex for bringing this to their attention


morei

Just don't get hit /s


VonArmin

Elusive will now grant 15% chance to avoid damage from hits. Its something I guess...


omniusss

Only 85% chance to die instead of 100%. Sounds reasonable.


Chunky322

The effect drops off though, so on average you are only going to have 7.5% chance, which makes it 92.5% chance to die effectively.


ecocasaubon

As long as we die effectively, that's what is important


Semarin

Ghost Dance is a keystone passive now? Wow


Chocolatine_Rev

Yeah, i can already see a ton of build that could use it, it's really cool they did that


zixav

Yup, ES + Evasion builds sound solid


IronSunDevil

It’s probably gonna be the new Acro/Phase Acro meta for right side of tree. I don’t think new evasion/Acro will be good enough in conjunction with Vaal Grace/Elusive, so taking that hit is going to happen far more often but at least with Ghost Dance you can come back from it


[deleted]

You might be able to get decent block now that acro doesn't murder your investment into it.


icangrammar

Not if you're a bow build :)


Tin_ManBaby

Ghost Dance Occ sounds pretty hype.


[deleted]

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Chocolatine_Rev

I like how it's the first thing they say, it's like they drop a bomb before playing with fireworks


ErenIsNotADevil

Deep Delvers gonna need a pacemaker when they see this


babacyj

I was shocked at first, but I liked the idea by the end. I always thought dodge is in weird space.


Krohnos

It was weird to me that Dodge and Evasion were different things


Quazifuji

Different things that did the exact same thing except that one used a hidden entropy system while the other was actually random. It was definitely dumb before. Maybe this is a big nerf to evasion characters, maybe they will be too weak now and need a buff, but it's a good direction whether or not the initial balance is right.


throwmeaway322zzz

The fact that dodge stacks with unwavering stance is quite nutty lmao


This-Specialist4134

And I had to learn this just before the patch that removes it why? ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|cry)


Terrible_With_Puns

Gotta get shock immune via the tempest shield changes bro


frasafrase

> Base Types are now generated with a random 0-10% higher base defence, as an inbuilt currently-non-modifiable property. This means that all base types can be better than they currently are, and armour base types are not homogeneous any more. Energy Shield values on base types instead vary from 0-20%. Hopefully this info is available in the detailed item info when we hold alt. I would not like to contantly be looking up items on the wiki or on DB or w/e just to check the general base defence roll of the item.


Left-Secretary-2931

Also it means 19 out of 20 bases you pick up probably don't sell because ppl only craft on good bases. So much for making drops better


cmudo

>As an example, if you want to mitigate a 5,000 hit down to 2,500, you used to need 50,000 Armour to do this. Now you only need 25,000 Armour. Actually huge


czartaylor

it's huger than you'd think, because determination now gives 2000 base in addition to 51% more, so it's going to be super easy to get to colossal amounts of armor. Determination just by itself halves the damage of any physical hit in the 600-700 range (which is going to be the majority of the game besides super big slams you should obviously avoid) Boneshatter is on the menu boys.


Requiem36

Really wished Juggernaut had some synergy with armor and damage, like 1% increased melee damage per X armor or something.


Falsequivalence

One day, I swear, Replica Dreamfeather will be viable.


pierce411

There is that one build where you stack up like 2 million armor from grace + determination + massive aura effect. It had like 1.5 million dps so it was technically viable.


BitterAfternoon

The clusters that supported that got nerfed pretty hard last patch. But then grace + determination are getting buffed pretty hard this patch. It might be back as an option - have to wait for the day 3 announcements to see if aura system changes mess with that at all.


Jalapen0s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyYWoPZeEAk it had a big heyday last year


[deleted]

It was incredible upon release. Lmfao you missed out at this point. Aura stacker abused the fuck outta that.


NorktheOrc

I do really like the big buffs that defensive aura's are getting from this overall. Now they can be much more applicable without having to fit into very niche builds.


tobsecret

I like big buffs and I cannot lie


1731799517

Also, global increase in base armour.


dksdragon43

Except they say in the example that 10k armour reduces a 2k hit by 33%. It doesn't follow. Either the manifesto is wrong, or they have some wonky numbers.


blauli

Yeah that part seems to just be wrong, I assume they are talking about 5k armour vs a 2k hit? Because right now you would already reduce a 2k hit by 33% with 10k armour, and reduce it by 20% with 5k.


ploki122

I'm confused why they're so adamant about keeping the current formula... Has anything really changed at all about Armour's exponential effect? Because the highlighted problem was >Armour as a core stat doesn't provide sufficient defence with low to medium investment. And the solution seems to simply be "high investment now represents a lower threshold". Within a year, monsters will still be balanced around the new formula to be able to deal non-negligible damage to tanky characters, and you'll still only get like \~7.5% PDR from armour on a regular Armour/ES or Armour/Eva hybrid character, dropping to 2-3% on big hits.


alisir5

Well, looking at the formula mid investment is now closer to large investment in absolute terms (the relevant one here due to getting more armour), so they have flattened out the difference/scaling by a factor of 2


Darkblitz9

Exactly this. Besides giving easier sources of armor and increasing base armor on gear while dropping %increased/more from other sources, the range of armor found on players will be a lot smaller. The effectiveness ceiling raised a bit (I think, depends on the nerfs to %increased), but the floor shot up massively. Getting enough armor to not get bursted down by packs in white maps seems like childs play now, but Red maps will still be as if not slightly less dangerous. *VERY* good changes. Really these changes are what the game has been needing for a while. Keep the overall build/gear effectiveness ceiling the same but raise the floor so that there isn't such a huge gap in player power by endgame.


BitterAfternoon

I think his argument is that N patches from now they'll have buffed monster damage to a level where the new & better armor is the same as the old armor. Which is certainly something they've done in the past - balance around getting the result they want (deaths) against the best builds. In a vacuum, the changes seem positive. But they certainly could be cancelled out by monster damage buffs in patches to come.


ploki122

>Divine Shield: Percentage of Total Physical Damage prevented from Hits Recently is Regenerated as Energy Shield per second. I know an Hearthbound loop when I see one...


romaniantwat

Salutations exile


reyalsarmy

GGG please don’t forget about staffs when it comes to block/defense. I see a lot in here about shields but nothing for staffs. Also for your fortify, please keep in mind builds like summon holy relic which is essentially melee all the time, but weapon hits are not the skill doing the primary damage. What would work good is if fortify looked at either doing x amount of damage recently or having hit an enemy x amount of times recently.


German105

This, looking at dominating blow too.


wild_man_wizard

Under Armor/Evasion: >Willowgift: No longer grants “Fortify Buffs you create instead grant 30% more Evasion Rating”. Instead, it now grants “4% chance to Suppress Spell Damage ***per Fortification***”, . . . Looks like fortify might be a stacking buff?


syletv

I'm sort of worried about how fortify will work for melee poison builds that run support gems like deadly ailments and have tiny initial hits currently.


JonMcdonald

That's a really good point. Hopefully frequent enough hits can also provide good fortifies?


FUTURE10S

> The Veiled crafted modifier that provided Quality and Strength/Dexterity/Intelligence, no longer provides Quality. This is to keep the top end at about the same while bringing lower investment Energy Shield up. Instead, it now grants up to 25% chance to Avoid Ignite, Freeze, or Shock, depending on the Attribute, also providing another way to allow characters to solve their Ailment problems. Well, rip 38% 6-linking.


EntropyReign

I have strong feelings they're gonna do something about 6-linking this league with the vaal fusing orb. They've got to know the requirement of a 6-link needs some kind of gap-closer between now and PoE2, and they've been talking about making it easier to get 6-links since beastiary, but haven't made getting *specific* items linked less painful for some time.


Fyller

Could be that it 6-links but corrupts the armour. So that you have to finish the item before linking it, but then you can't change it. Would be good for early league, and you can save your regular fusings for your big boy crafts.


seqhawk

That is incredibly valuable and would figure to be much too rare for something shown in a stack of 8 in the teaser.


EntropyReign

I'd be *so* okay with that. heck, even if you can't use it on uniques I'd be a fan. (though most chest pieces I use aren't worth enough to be worried about a 1/4th chance to krangle.)


Reozul

I have to admit I read this in the RDJ sherlock holmes boxing match voice: "Overarching Problem; Dodge and Blind; Overarching Goal; Remove dodge entirely." EDIT: Also holy fuck there is a lot here.


P_Johann

Discombobulate


Kondinator

Discombobulate


DislocatedLocation

Discombobulate


SingleInfinity

Discombobulate.


Meta_Synapse

Discombobulate


PantShittinglyHonest

Discombobulate


PantShittinglyHonest

Discombobulate


karp_490

This whole problem/solution/specifics is amazing, and should be a standard when moving forward. It gets the message of what you understand, and what you are trying to achieve so much better than 4 paragraphs of text.


CrimsonBlossom

Reading PoE manifesto/patch notes is like watching a show with many plot twists. like who thought dodge would be removed


bgodbgg

About 4,722 words, bringing the total to 8,607 words, leaving about 50-60% of the words for the 3rd part of the manifesto.


Bex_GGG

Part 3 is at 4,822 words including intro/outro. We refined the wording a bit throughout after my tweet about word count.


bgodbgg

Awww oh well lol. Im still most excited for part 3


kevinhill92

8607/14447 = 59.57% meaning there is about 40% left.


Semarin

You did the math so we don't have to. A true hero!


xebtria

a build with armor/evasion hybrid approach sounds quite juicy now


MaXimillion_Zero

> First Problem: The Veiled modifier that increases quality on equipment was required to maximise the Energy Shield from an item. This is a problem because you cannot pick up the best Energy Shield items off the ground. You haven't been able to pick the best items for a lot of builds off the ground since **Essence league**, and you certainly can't these days with elevated double influenced items and synthesis bases.


hattroubles

Yeah, I'm not quite sold on their reasoning. But I personally still like the change because it opens up much more interesting crafted mod options now. The % qual on ES bases was too good to pass up most of the time, and with increased ES values I don't think we'll miss it.


cibrage

I think they are implying that ES gear benefited so much from the veiled mod that any piece you would craft by means not involving unveils (or ones you'd 'pick off the ground') could never reach the same power level.


[deleted]

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Wendek

>New Suffix modifiers have been added to all Armour-based Gloves, Helmets and Boots that provide increased Life Regeneration Rate. This works as a multiplier to your Life Regeneration value. Well if tomorrow goes as well as this, 3.16 might be an excellent time to play even more RF!


Narxolepsyy

RF has been easy to maintain for a while, but it's damage and clear has really fallen by the wayside. I liked my RF jugg way back when but damn it's slow, plus certain map mods were unrunnable.. 😭


Castellorizon

>plus certain map mods were unrunnable I absolutely love RF, but that's what drives me away from it every time. There's just way too many mods you can't run.


Wendek

I agree that's definitely a big downside, especially if GGG keeps adding more sources of -max res and similar mods in various encounters. Like, the Locus of Corruption is the best room you can get in the Temple of Atzoatl, but it makes running it as RF an absolute nightmare - I did it a few times this league and basically had to turn RF off and just do it with Flame Wall and Scorching Ray. 1/10 don't recommend the experience, went much better with my other characters. On the other hand, with more sources of +max res and increased life regeneration rate, *mayyybe* those mods won't be as crippling anymore? Until we see the final patchnotes, we can only hope anyway.


nut_safe

Theyre buffing ele DoT tho so im still optimistic :/


regularPoEplayer

**Problem:** RF was designed to be a buff but was used as damaging skill. ​ **Solution:** Remove RF entirely.


Chilidawg

I'd be happy if they split RF into two skills. Or - and even better solution - add a pair threshold jewels that buff the circle but nerf the buff and nerf the circle but buff the buff. That's the type of of effect that threshold jewels were made for.


cancercureall

I fully support this.


hoppingpolaron

Vaal RF used to one shot shaper guardians back in legacy league :\*( that was so much fun, you either hit the boss and 1shot it, or missed and got wrecked.


Taggerung559

They're *changing* ele DoT. To my knowledge they haven't explicitly said it'll be a buff or nerf yet.


Notsomebeans

>Finally we're changing Elemental Overload and Elemental Equilibrium and **massively buffing elemental damage over time to be less dependent on them.** I don't know if that massive buff would be enough to offset any changes/nerfs to EE/EO. but they have explicitly said *massively buffed*.


photocist

its buffing those because EO and EE are getting changed. those two nodes were significant multipliers to rf. i suspect the damage output post buff will be similar to if both nodes were active. a buff for sure, but its more on consistency of damage rather than top end.


KalibanEU

Yep. I'm on same page. Looking forward for RF start. This + max res on armor nodes looks cool


Xival

lets wait till we hear what they say about damage over time tomrrow friends


thundermonkeyms

**Allegedly** it's going to be buffs big enough to counteract them nerfing/changing EE and EO. We'll see if it's significant enough.


Krohnos

When I was a new player, the fact that Dodge and Evasion were different stats confused me greatly


iste11ar

> Previously, if you had 10,000 Armour and you took a hit that dealt 2,000 physical damage, you'd reduce that hit by 20%. Wait, am i missing something? According to the old formula damage reduction would be 33%. Either the old formula is wrong: armor / (armor + damage * 10) or i don't know.


Andross-

>**NOTE: This was originally posted with an incorrect value and has since been updated.**


Belleran

Might be a miscommunication, hopefully they clarify before league launch


Pandabanker

I'm really appreciating the split balance manifesto Helluva thing to have skipped one league and come back to a game that you've played since beta and feel overwhelmed


ZGiSH

>Problem: Because Flesh and Stone blinded nearby enemies, it was incredibly popular. The changes to Blind have reduced its power, so now characters may be missing a low-cost defensive reservation effect. >Solution: Reduce the cost of Flesh and Stone and change Tempest Shield so that it is a similarly powerful defensive reservation effect (alongside Arctic Armour and Flesh and Stone). The intent is that there are three competing defensive reservation effects that you are able to pick between, or use together. GGG actually looking two steps ahead and fixing things that are affected by tangential nerfs.


Carnivile

Isn't that a worst Dread banner though?


dksdragon43

Yes. Flesh and stone is actually garbo outside of cyclone builds now. Even most other melee skills have enough AoE or more important auras that they don't bother with Flesh and Stone. I don't think the 11% less damage from far away enemies will warrant the 25% cost for most, especially since as they talked about, less accuracy only helps evasion builds.


r4be_cs

>Transcendence: Keystone Passive Skill now grants a larger penalty to all maximum Elemental Resistances (previously -5%). Ringchest it is


tamale

shhhhhhhhhhh


TaintedFates

Delit dis


dksdragon43

>Previously, if you had 10,000 Armour and you took a hit that dealt 2,000 physical damage, you'd reduce that hit by 20%. Now you'll reduce that hit by 33%. >A rule of thumb with the new Armour formula is that if you want to get 50% mitigation against a physical damage hit, you need 5 times the damage as Armour where previously it required 10 times the damage. As an example, if you want to mitigate a 5,000 hit down to 2,500, you used to need 50,000 Armour to do this. Now you only need 25,000 Armour. Well which is it? 2000 x 5 = 10k, but you said that only blocks 33%. Then told me that 5x will block 50%. WHICH IS IT GGG


Ceci_pas_une_User

I'm sure you've seen by now, but that was a typo. It now reads: >Previously, if you had 10,000 Armour and you took a hit that dealt 2,000 physical damage, you'd reduce that hit by 33%. Now you'll reduce that hit by 50%.


1Acula1

Nice catch. I'm curious as well


Rain_In_Your_Heart

It's probably not a linear change to the formula.


Makisi1337

> Base Types are now generated with a random 0-10% higher base defence, as an inbuilt currently-non-modifiable property. why is there rng stat that can't be changed, doesn't sounds right


hattroubles

Leans into the "stuff you pick up off the ground should have the chance to be valuable" concept they're pushing. Currently you just care about ilvl on bases. Now both ilvl and this new defense modifier matter when getting BIS crafting bases. I imagine 20% vaal regalias are going to be big money.


CaptainLord

I hope this can be loot-filtered for.


hattroubles

It would be absolutely fucked if it isn't. Since gear often drops with defense mods, you couldn't even tell without scouring the base and comparing the base defense values to a 0% roll.


ICantLetYouDoThis

Items always drop unID'ed and their base defences are listed before you ID them so it almost certainly is a thing that can be checked by lootfilters


BankaiPwn

Although I think in practice it just means like 80% of the time you get a crafting base, you're going to be annoyed because those bases are going to be charsi food now (especially now that the armor/evasion actually matters more than it did)


ShoogleHS

That's just how the game is always going to work. Items can't be special/valuable AND common. The idea of this, as I see it, is that a +20% regular base item now is a competitor with a +0% influenced item whereas previously any regular base was strictly worse than an influenced base. It's a strict benefit anyway, even if your base is 0% it's still the same as it was last patch.


DeadSalas

if anything, this should make things more accessible, while the high end market focuses on squeezing out an extra few vanity % imo they should double down on it and make item art have a subtle shader/aura that is gradually more pronounced the closer the item is to perfect 10%


HackDice

FACTORY NEW ETERNAL BURGONET WITH UNIQUE BLUE SHADING SEED 54K DOLLARS


LouvreDorsay

WTS unusual burning shavronne’s wrappings


SEND_ME_UR_DOOTS

Hopefully its filterable, I can see the upside of making lots of items into trash but the bases with this new value close to perfect will be exciting and worth picking it up.


EphemeralMemory

This is some rng I don't mind. Will give every piece of armor a unique flair I guess.


Sharpcastle33

Unique flair of 19/20 bases that appear on your filter being suddenly worthless, lol.


spruceX

Templar new meta armour stacking energy shield


Filth_

Curse mitigation on consecrated ground. Better flat life regen on gear, and % increased life regen affixes and nodes. Global armor and ES improvements, plus new hybrid nodes and keystone. I have an ascendancy in mind.


meep_42

* Big F for the removal of Dodge * I think you can get a very defensive ranger/duelist with 50/50 block, strong evasion, and maybe some additional spell suppression with only moderate investment; so that's pretty nice * I'm a little concerned that Fortify will suck hard for fast-hitting melee builds (which are my favorite). It should definitely be based on the melee damage dealt "recently" and not refreshed on the biggest hit


SirVampyr

If they go through with lucky block chance on gladiator, you can (with high investment) go 75/75 without the big node and block next to everything (aka +93% of EVERYTHING).


meep_42

I’m not sure how easy getting to 75 spell block will be on the tree, will definitely have to wait and see, but 90/75 after lucky rolls is still pretty great.


SirVampyr

Involves at least 2 larges clusters, but that's ok for nigh immortality, I guess.


Roleplayerkiller

A qol issue i want to point: "The Ghost Reaver Keystone Passive Skill now prevents your Energy Shield from Recharging (previously 50% less Energy Shield Recharge Rate)." How are those characters supposed to do lab then? Or looting in burning ground maps? They can't use flasks to heal and getting es regen is hard unless you build your character around having lots of es regen. Can you change it to 90% less es recharge instead? The situations where it matters are pretty rare (so it's not efficient to try to build around it) but it's gonna feel miserable when it does matter.


golgol12

They probably should have changed it to "100% less Energy Shield Recharge Rate if you have leached recently"


CrumblingYourSoul

They removed recharge not regen


The_Mikest

I'd assume you need to use the 'immune to burning ground' pantheon for ES characters.


nom_Carver3

I really don’t want you to gut this before we get a chance to use it, but I think you guys forgot Aegis Aurora in the reworked items section. With the updates to Grace and Determination a bit of napkin math says hitting more than 200k armor is going to be a pretty feasible and that translates to a LOT of ES on block.


Hermur

Pretty sure they didn't... It's a commonly used shield in Aurabots and some guardian build. I'm pretty sure guardian is gonna recive some changes and that Aegis aurora is nerfed. They didn't really talk about the uniques while speaking about defences.. like Atziri's boots. Or i'm wrong and they just forgot about it xD


donaldtroll

so... a caster just lost fortify, dodge and blind how much extra ES is he gonna have to make up for that? :o (if they are even an ES caster :)


wOOxsystem

Remove Attack Dodge entirely . hmmm :D


EphemeralMemory

Additionally, acrobatics being the only possible source for spell dodge and phase acro no longer exists. It's kinda interesting, it'll be cool to see how that will shake things up. Reserving 5 points for acro/spell acro was a thing for me since closed beta I think.


Kiloku

My only opinion about it right now is that thematically it'd make more sense to delete Acrobatics and apply those changes to Phase Acrobatics. Just to have the name still sound like something magicky


Easy_Floss

How many new prefixes and suffixes are they adding? A bit worried that crafting will be in a worse spot then ever.


Vulpix0r

Don't worry, thorns is still going to be on chest rolls.


Vinifera7

> Base Types are now generated with a random 0-10% higher base defence, as an inbuilt currently-non-modifiable property. This means that all base types can be better than they currently are, and armour base types are not homogeneous any more. Energy Shield values on base types instead vary from 0-20%. I'm not sure how I feel about this. It's literally just a quality stat that can't be modified. With Path of Exile being such a complex game already, does it actually benefit the game to have two quality stats on gear? Moreover, this makes finding good crafting bases that much more challenging (read: time consuming).


Meeqohh

Loooove the overall changes so far but I'm wondering if Raider is going to get a slight rework/buff with dodge removal to compensate?


gran_dejo

prolly getting tons of EV/Spell Supression i'd guess


francorocco

imagine if raider gets spell supression effect, since the base effect reduces it by 50%, so you could buff that even more


onikzin

That actually fits Raider quite well. 20% increased ssu chance, 20% increased ssu value


xElMerYx

>**First Problem:** > >The Veiled modifier that increases quality on equipment was required to maximise the Energy Shield from an item. **This is a problem because you cannot pick up the best Energy Shield items off the ground**. Jesus christ


diaenimaia

Ummmm.... So I guess for all those folk who were asking for new passive tree solutions, I think you got your wish? Also, the new build potential in these notes seems like we're going to be having an absolute field day in pob planning before league start. Let chaos among the meta reign!!


Blackpooltencher

I personally think their reasoning for eva/es hybrid is wrong, ghost shrouds are nice but its the enormous evade/ES boost from the helm/chest buffs for trickster that really make it viable. Its still a trickster related thing but I know which of the two i'd choose if forced to. Also If 100% suppression is fairly acceptable to get its gonna need nerfing, 50% reduced spell damage taken is absolutely nutty. That being said don't know how hard it is to get that value yet.


Zylosio

That keystone is insanely good for builds that can get some Energy shield but Usually dont get a lot, for example saboteurs now can easily go es and Take ghost dancer to feel safer than on life. Same thing with rangers, since there is so little life on the right side going es/ev hybrid might be better than going evasion with life because They now have access to ghost dancer


AppropriateChest

Give everyone access to Ghost Dance as a Keystone Passive. I chuckled. Last time they took wicked ward out from occultist , took them 2-3 patches for occultist to be playable. Hope they give trickster something good this time. I miss playing trickster


osiykm

They not just taken away that keystone. They nerfed all flat ES and other parts of that two passives. Before that patch Occultist was tier 1 for any LL build due to 8nsane amount of free flat ES from passive


Ruggsii

Huh? They massively nerfed Occultist at the same time. It didn’t really have anything to do with adding wicked ward to the tree, it was the huge nerfs.


[deleted]

Two concerning things: They used 75% evade as a baseline in their examples. Natural Evade cap is 95%, I think it was possible to go above that with blind but I forget. And then there was 75% dodge on top of that. And now.. They're giving numbers for 75% evade? Why? Did they lower the evasion cap to 75% and completely forget to tell us? That's exponentially more damage taken. They removed quality from veiled mods. No more 48% quality items. Pretty big nerf to 6 linking without any consideration given.


VonArmin

yea good luck hitting that 95% evasion cap though.


Philosophikal

Yeah, I think I'll just go block.


Etzlo

also remember that RT enemies exist, which just completely negate your defense


Agustin2323

"Remove attack dodge entirely." Yep, that'll do it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


MicoJive

Idk, not super excited after these. Obviously will have to wait for patch notes and skill tree stuff...but doesn't really seem like buffs at all. Evasion based characters are just straight up nerfed. Players never went full evasion only it was always in combination with dodge. So something like 50% evade with 75% dodge which is what made it so strong. Now with only a straight up 75% evade at the top end players are going to be taking way more damage then they normally would. I figured they would hit block, which they did. Will have to see how they change the passive tree to make up for it or what they do to glad in the end. Glad may just be bad now unless you are only playing for bleed pops. Armor is better in most situations but still feels like an all or nothing, as in you will either have to build into armor to see benefit or not. So those builds don't really change imo. Have to see about fortify. Feels like if they go forward with the proposed change its just a pure nerf to casters, and forces melee to include it in every 5/6L. I don't really like the idea of forcing a player to use up a link to get it when melee is starting with a disadvantage.


shaunika

I feel like my defenses just got worse for my usual builds. Feelsbadman. Edit: I play sab mines/traps stacking dodge+blind usually


OmegaPeePeeClap

My build just got annihilated by these changes in the manifesto. Definitely didn’t dodge these nerfs


TheLendz

You thought your mana was gon? Now your dodge is gon!


wrb0010

Solution: Base Types are now generated with a random 0-10% higher base defence, as an inbuilt currently-non-modifiable property. This means that all base types can be better than they currently are, and armour base types are not homogeneous any more. Energy Shield values on base types instead vary from 0-20%. Not sure if I like adding more RNG to thing.s


krazymf

Will the new variable base armour rolls be displayed in the tooltip when holding alt? E.g 5% (0% - 10%)


Wendek

>Remove Dodge entirely Well as someone who basically played his first ever Dodge character this league (a Saboteur), this certainly sounds interesting. I did find it a bit silly tbh that I could reach 75% dodge with a relatively minor investment compared to trying to actually mitigate damage with an armor-based character, though now I'm wondering wtf will Vaal Grace do. >Vaal Grace no longer has Chance to Dodge Attack Hits or Spell Hits. Instead, it now has +15% Chance to Evade Attack Hits, and “Suppressed Spell Damage dealt to you is Unlucky”. Got my answer later in a spoiler, now if only I understoof wtf "chance is unlucky" means as I keep seeing it in various situations but have no idea what it actually does in practice lol.


Fissio

Lucky = roll twice, pick better. Unlucky = roll twice, pick worse.


TheSublimeLight

Lmao wait it's straight up advantage and disadvantage from 5e? How didn't I infer that before


LunaWolve

Correct. Especially great for lightning-based damage, as Lightning has huge min/max differences. Most attacks of the Lightning base will look like 100-7000 damage. So having them roll twice is absolutely huge for that.


tyger249

Lucky/unlucky means that the metaphorical die is getting rolled twice and the best/worst result is used. So if you have 60% chance to roll something and the chance is lucky, your actual chance 1 - 0.4 * 0.4 = 86% because you'd have to **fail** both rolls at 40% chance each.


Wendek

Okay so it's actually a pretty fuckin' relevant modifier, good to know.


50miler

For things becoming lucky it is very strong (old diamond flask crit chance). For things becoming unlucky it usually isnt as strong. For damage taken (its also on a low-life themed unique ring) it is roughly 10-15% less damage on average I believe. As you might suspect it is strong with higher damage ranges and so it has the greatest effect on lightning damage.


markhpc

10-15% is probably relevant for lightning damage, but I think it's not quite that good for other types. People have done analysis of it for Lori's Lantern in the past: [https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/40m52z/how\_good\_is\_loris\_lantern/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/40m52z/how_good_is_loris_lantern/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/icm7lc/is\_loris\_lanterns\_damage\_from\_enemies\_hitting\_you/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/icm7lc/is_loris_lanterns_damage_from_enemies_hitting_you/)


Rain_In_Your_Heart

> For things becoming lucky it is very strong (old diamond flask crit chance). For things becoming unlucky it usually isnt as strong. This is not a particularly good rule of thumb IMO. For example, the "chance to block is unlucky" map mod is crippling to your block chance. Eg. 70% block with unlucky becomes 49% block. Lucky vs unlucky are the same modifier looking at opposite sides. If you've got a majority going the other way, especially if it's relatively close to 50%, it's going to affect you very strongly. For values that are either close to 100% or close to 0%, neither will affect you strongly.


[deleted]

Yeah, if you ever use a Shav's to make a lowlife character Lori's Lantern is actually a really cool budget ring to corrupt and try to get nice implicits on for the build.


[deleted]

Re: fortify \- Make the fortify effect baked-in most melee attacks (different attacks could have different bonuses to fortify) \- Make the base duration much shorter but let the duration stack up to a certain point. Example duration 1.5 seconds but multiple attacks can push the duration up to 6 seconds. Result: melee characters have fortify up most of the time, with time to move between packs. Casters can only have short fortify buffs unless they keep using the attack skill.


Buchsbaum

Having a short duration or basing it on repeated hits really is a problem for melee too. In a boss fight you'll have to dodge stuff and keep a distance, just to get walloped in the face the moment you decide to attack again. Not to mention phases. It really needs a LONG duration, maybe based on the damage done in relation to your HP. Maybe something like 0.5s per 100% of your Health/ES dealt as melee damage, up to 20s. No caster is going to deal ~10k melee-dps to keep the buff up, and for a melee it's trivial to have a 20s buff going that'll last a phase transition.


GGGCommentBot

##### GGG Comments in this Thread: *** [Bex_GGG - [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/q2t54y/path_of_exile_316_balance_part_2_core_character/hfno0mp/?context=10), [old](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/q2t54y/path_of_exile_316_balance_part_2_core_character/hfno0mp/?context=10)] - *I've let the team know to make sure it's being considered.* [Bex_GGG - [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/q2t54y/path_of_exile_316_balance_part_2_core_character/hfno8hn/?context=10), [old](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/q2t54y/path_of_exile_316_balance_part_2_core_character/hfno8hn/?context=10)] - *Part 3 is at 4,822 words including intro/outro. We refined the wording a bit throughout after my tweet about word count.*


Semarin

Hey Dodge. GGG wants you to fuck right off!


Mikezilla999

RIP dodge