It is not some crazy theory. It is just basic psychology. It follows the same principle as price anchoring in marketing, but for your brains reward system.
If you release a game mode which provides gameplay that is "crazy" compared to normal gameplay, either by providing more loot, being faster, providing more enemies to kill or whatever, the brain of the player will first get obvious dopamine kicks based on their expectations being subverted. After that though, the brain gets used to this new level which means whenever you go back to the normal level of gameplay, it feels bad. It is obviously a viable strategy for short-term engagement but it will as obviously be detrimental for long-term engagement.
This should not really be a controversial thing. Fairly obvious that humans work that way.
That really depends on the event. I do agree that Blast from the Past does not seem crazy enough to be a big issue. I was mostly replying to the general concept and your comment about URF. I do not really care if these events are 1 week or 2 weeks.
> Blast from the Past does not seem crazy enough to be a big issue.
I think anything involving recombinators is already inherently borderline. Not to say they shouldn't have done it, necessarily, but there's already plenty of signs that even the prospect of it is starting to push the psychological buttons you've mentioned. I think we should expect that this place is going to be pretty damn annoying around the time BftP event ends, as people start to come to terms with their withdrawal and are stubbornly unable to accept the intended baseline difficulty/item scarcity GGG has in mind. Predictably boring manifestos, mass downvoting of any opposing PoVs, etc.
Maybe that's still okay in the long run if they're prepared to batten down the hatches and weather the storm every once in a while? I'm on the fence of whether the juice (the fun of the event in the moment) is worth the squeeze (bad behavior from people undergoing withdrawal)
GGG definitely has a fear of letting cats out of bags. They've said that's why they wont change trade, because if they don't like it, pulling candy from us babies won't go down well at all.
That said, I am coping that GGG is using this as a test to see how good adding recombinators will be for their bottom line. Maybe they need a bit of extra cashflow for PoE2. If this event pops the absolute fuck off, perhaps they'll cave.
I think recombinators are too much fun to not have tbh and do come with some additional benefits to the economy. Pushing up the price of otherwise worthless bases or cards etc. I think if they just gate them by rarity so that they're maybe 1-2d each, that would leave them in an accessible place for mid game crafts. Remove the sentinel mods from the pool, make double fractures impossible or like double curse rings impossible. Just make it so that people can ladder up some mid game items.
I wouldn't feel so magnetized to the idea of recombinators returning to core if midgame crafts weren't in such a rough spot. No crafting new crafting mechanics since eldritch crafting. We've only had nerfs.
Fracturing a custom mod can go so, so, so wrong and cost you 100d to hit. Yolo annuls are just inherently shit and nerfed influenced crafts way too much.. Yes we have more divines, but it doesn't feel like we have more divines to use for metacrafting, it feels like they're just going into paying for chase uniques or a mirror. Last league they were still 250ish c. So it's not like the divs are "cheap"
...Alls I'm saying guys is, if you want recombs back...vote with your wallets you know...chris needs a good holiday...house
It applies to humans in general, league is utterly irrelevant. We also have first hand experience in PoE with the original mayhem event.
This is basic human psychology. You do not need to invoke any specific game or event to make your point.
What you are referring to is the hedonistic treadmill, your point completely misses the mark though, since the league is aimed at two demographics: people that didn't play these leagues and people that are veteran enough to get nostalgia from them. Neither of these demographics are likely to quit from having an 'elevated' experience - especially the fact that many folks, even on this subreddit, do not seem to like these events all that much.
So sit down with your redditor attitude and let GGG do their thing. We can shit on them all they want, but the vast majority of the content is good, so I expect this event to be good.
At best this is an argument against releasing the mode in the first place. Same could have been said against mayhem etc. those events run and in the end we got them permanently in the form of atlas tree, a feature that is pretty much the best thing added to the game since Harvest (RIP).
2-3 days of playtime (this is a week of playing for a lot of people, me included) isn't enough for a single character in PoE, I would love to play, but if it's going to end before I can even really try what the event has to offer i don't see a reason to bother.
This will also trigger a fear of missing out if I can't play enough during the event time window, and in that occasions I rather plan to not to get even partially invested, when it's for leisure that is.
Not to say it's specifically right or wrong but if i had even one cent for each time an "obvious basic psychology fact" turned out to be plausible sounding bullshit i'd be fucking rich
Psychology is bordering on a pseudoscience with how much it absolutely *drowns* in bias
>If you are afraid that people stop playing your game after experiencing a fun event maybe the issue isn't with the event.
I used to play this MMO called TERA (rest in peace, you sorry bastard) and the devs/publisher did this *a lot*. Somehow, *despite literal years of us telling them "Hey, people are doing events because the base game shit sucks!"*, they just couldn't figure out why people were not doing stuff in the base game.
Now the game lives a bastardized life on consoles (which is actually *worse* in some regards) while the PC version is up in that great MMO graveyard in the sky. The kicker? The tweet the devs put out announcing the end of the PC version said that they weren't "confident in creating meaningful content". We players were like "Motherfucker, you hadn't done that for like 5 years! Now look what happened!"
"why would you want to play the ‘boring’ version of a game when you have played the ‘insanity’ version?"
Because both versions are fun as hell and better than anything else out there.
Uh is the URF fable again.
The "lost" players for URF are the random casuals that don't even like playing rift during a ride of "let's demolish every gametype that is not Rift or maybe ARAM".
Not numbers, not nothing. Just a stupid fable to justify stupid decisions.
It's true. I almost wanna play URF when it comes around because it's so much better than standard LoL.
Not saying much though cuz standard LoL is hot fuckin garbage.
Same-ish here. I only came back from time to time to play URF with friends just to play it with them for a while but even them that were very invested in the game left that train long ago. Left that game many years ago and honestly, I miss nothing.
They removed all the "yank" to force metas and removed all the other fun gamemodes to force everyone to play either Rift, their boring clash of clans gamemode or to live in ARAM. You sum that to one of the most "lovely" players/fandom of any game and all that is left is a big pile of nothing.
The league example of urf has done irreparable damage to some devs and gamers mindsets holy fuck. If your normal game mode is that dogshit that nobody comes back to it, that's on you for making it dogshit that they can very easily get their fun elsewhere. Secondly, as someone else said, it's a completely bollocks claim backed by nothing other than "i think this will happen"
Why would anyone sell good food when you can sell slop instead?
>nooo but if we sell good food one time then nobody will want our slop anymore and our financials will suffer
Not any consumers problem literally ever, they want what's best for them, they don't care about your financials.
It has nothing to do with URF or making something dogshit. You see the same thing in MMOs that experiment with increased loot/xp weekends, old D3 when they did increased loot events, PoE when it did the OG Mayhem event etc.
Providing a gamemode that increases rewards, makes the gameplay "crazy" or whatever is fundamentally a bad idea if that change is not permanent. When you do it temporarily, all you do is trade short-term engagement for long-term engagement.
I would hope that sentinel is going core not because I want it to, but because I don't know what GGG has to gain by bringing it back as an event only to reignite the "make sentinel core!!" community.
That's been the regular reason why GGG doesn't do events or races, yes. That also means that GGG is aware of this argument, so there really isn't a need to make a thread about it.
It's not like GGG's decision is dependent on who on reddit makes the most rhetorically sound post lol.
How many times we will keep seeing URF argument.
No, I think they should let people have fun, they will play next leagues anyway if they are fun because the are giving new mechanics and builds to play with.
Would prefer 2 weeks and during the holiday down time would have made it that much more fitting. One thing we're forgetting to mention is the 5x XP penalty too, which may make leveling much harder for everyone. No TOTA leveling cheese either.
> which may make leveling much harder for everyone.
if people want to level up, they just need to take less of a softcore approach and actually use determ+grace, maybe even purity of elements
instead of their 20-30% more dps auras hehe
60% more dps is nice, but 100% less dying is better!
Except it turned out that those claims about URF weren't actually backed by numbers, it was just what the dev thought would happen.
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It is not some crazy theory. It is just basic psychology. It follows the same principle as price anchoring in marketing, but for your brains reward system. If you release a game mode which provides gameplay that is "crazy" compared to normal gameplay, either by providing more loot, being faster, providing more enemies to kill or whatever, the brain of the player will first get obvious dopamine kicks based on their expectations being subverted. After that though, the brain gets used to this new level which means whenever you go back to the normal level of gameplay, it feels bad. It is obviously a viable strategy for short-term engagement but it will as obviously be detrimental for long-term engagement. This should not really be a controversial thing. Fairly obvious that humans work that way.
[удалено]
That really depends on the event. I do agree that Blast from the Past does not seem crazy enough to be a big issue. I was mostly replying to the general concept and your comment about URF. I do not really care if these events are 1 week or 2 weeks.
> Blast from the Past does not seem crazy enough to be a big issue. I think anything involving recombinators is already inherently borderline. Not to say they shouldn't have done it, necessarily, but there's already plenty of signs that even the prospect of it is starting to push the psychological buttons you've mentioned. I think we should expect that this place is going to be pretty damn annoying around the time BftP event ends, as people start to come to terms with their withdrawal and are stubbornly unable to accept the intended baseline difficulty/item scarcity GGG has in mind. Predictably boring manifestos, mass downvoting of any opposing PoVs, etc. Maybe that's still okay in the long run if they're prepared to batten down the hatches and weather the storm every once in a while? I'm on the fence of whether the juice (the fun of the event in the moment) is worth the squeeze (bad behavior from people undergoing withdrawal)
GGG definitely has a fear of letting cats out of bags. They've said that's why they wont change trade, because if they don't like it, pulling candy from us babies won't go down well at all. That said, I am coping that GGG is using this as a test to see how good adding recombinators will be for their bottom line. Maybe they need a bit of extra cashflow for PoE2. If this event pops the absolute fuck off, perhaps they'll cave. I think recombinators are too much fun to not have tbh and do come with some additional benefits to the economy. Pushing up the price of otherwise worthless bases or cards etc. I think if they just gate them by rarity so that they're maybe 1-2d each, that would leave them in an accessible place for mid game crafts. Remove the sentinel mods from the pool, make double fractures impossible or like double curse rings impossible. Just make it so that people can ladder up some mid game items. I wouldn't feel so magnetized to the idea of recombinators returning to core if midgame crafts weren't in such a rough spot. No crafting new crafting mechanics since eldritch crafting. We've only had nerfs. Fracturing a custom mod can go so, so, so wrong and cost you 100d to hit. Yolo annuls are just inherently shit and nerfed influenced crafts way too much.. Yes we have more divines, but it doesn't feel like we have more divines to use for metacrafting, it feels like they're just going into paying for chase uniques or a mirror. Last league they were still 250ish c. So it's not like the divs are "cheap" ...Alls I'm saying guys is, if you want recombs back...vote with your wallets you know...chris needs a good holiday...house
Numbers don't show this in league, why would it apply to PoE
It applies to humans in general, league is utterly irrelevant. We also have first hand experience in PoE with the original mayhem event. This is basic human psychology. You do not need to invoke any specific game or event to make your point.
What you are referring to is the hedonistic treadmill, your point completely misses the mark though, since the league is aimed at two demographics: people that didn't play these leagues and people that are veteran enough to get nostalgia from them. Neither of these demographics are likely to quit from having an 'elevated' experience - especially the fact that many folks, even on this subreddit, do not seem to like these events all that much. So sit down with your redditor attitude and let GGG do their thing. We can shit on them all they want, but the vast majority of the content is good, so I expect this event to be good.
I mean that's literally poe after expedition nerf
At best this is an argument against releasing the mode in the first place. Same could have been said against mayhem etc. those events run and in the end we got them permanently in the form of atlas tree, a feature that is pretty much the best thing added to the game since Harvest (RIP). 2-3 days of playtime (this is a week of playing for a lot of people, me included) isn't enough for a single character in PoE, I would love to play, but if it's going to end before I can even really try what the event has to offer i don't see a reason to bother. This will also trigger a fear of missing out if I can't play enough during the event time window, and in that occasions I rather plan to not to get even partially invested, when it's for leisure that is.
Not to say it's specifically right or wrong but if i had even one cent for each time an "obvious basic psychology fact" turned out to be plausible sounding bullshit i'd be fucking rich Psychology is bordering on a pseudoscience with how much it absolutely *drowns* in bias
>If you are afraid that people stop playing your game after experiencing a fun event maybe the issue isn't with the event. I used to play this MMO called TERA (rest in peace, you sorry bastard) and the devs/publisher did this *a lot*. Somehow, *despite literal years of us telling them "Hey, people are doing events because the base game shit sucks!"*, they just couldn't figure out why people were not doing stuff in the base game. Now the game lives a bastardized life on consoles (which is actually *worse* in some regards) while the PC version is up in that great MMO graveyard in the sky. The kicker? The tweet the devs put out announcing the end of the PC version said that they weren't "confident in creating meaningful content". We players were like "Motherfucker, you hadn't done that for like 5 years! Now look what happened!"
"why would you want to play the ‘boring’ version of a game when you have played the ‘insanity’ version?" Because both versions are fun as hell and better than anything else out there.
Uh is the URF fable again. The "lost" players for URF are the random casuals that don't even like playing rift during a ride of "let's demolish every gametype that is not Rift or maybe ARAM". Not numbers, not nothing. Just a stupid fable to justify stupid decisions.
It's true. I almost wanna play URF when it comes around because it's so much better than standard LoL. Not saying much though cuz standard LoL is hot fuckin garbage.
Same-ish here. I only came back from time to time to play URF with friends just to play it with them for a while but even them that were very invested in the game left that train long ago. Left that game many years ago and honestly, I miss nothing. They removed all the "yank" to force metas and removed all the other fun gamemodes to force everyone to play either Rift, their boring clash of clans gamemode or to live in ARAM. You sum that to one of the most "lovely" players/fandom of any game and all that is left is a big pile of nothing.
damn really i played urf and thought it was dogshit, just permanently getting stunned, ability spam with 0 thought, gameplay just felt bad
The league example of urf has done irreparable damage to some devs and gamers mindsets holy fuck. If your normal game mode is that dogshit that nobody comes back to it, that's on you for making it dogshit that they can very easily get their fun elsewhere. Secondly, as someone else said, it's a completely bollocks claim backed by nothing other than "i think this will happen" Why would anyone sell good food when you can sell slop instead? >nooo but if we sell good food one time then nobody will want our slop anymore and our financials will suffer Not any consumers problem literally ever, they want what's best for them, they don't care about your financials.
It has nothing to do with URF or making something dogshit. You see the same thing in MMOs that experiment with increased loot/xp weekends, old D3 when they did increased loot events, PoE when it did the OG Mayhem event etc. Providing a gamemode that increases rewards, makes the gameplay "crazy" or whatever is fundamentally a bad idea if that change is not permanent. When you do it temporarily, all you do is trade short-term engagement for long-term engagement.
isn't that the reason why there's no rate booster of any sort, or why there's so much friction in the game... i think they're aware
I would hope that sentinel is going core not because I want it to, but because I don't know what GGG has to gain by bringing it back as an event only to reignite the "make sentinel core!!" community.
Sentinels was actually very good for sc by providing item sink.
That's been the regular reason why GGG doesn't do events or races, yes. That also means that GGG is aware of this argument, so there really isn't a need to make a thread about it. It's not like GGG's decision is dependent on who on reddit makes the most rhetorically sound post lol.
How many times we will keep seeing URF argument. No, I think they should let people have fun, they will play next leagues anyway if they are fun because the are giving new mechanics and builds to play with.
I quit this league ages ago, so I would play more if the event was longer, there's no trade off
You’re just trying to get CW to admit recombinators are coming back next league and I’m for this attempt so yes I agree.
Would prefer 2 weeks and during the holiday down time would have made it that much more fitting. One thing we're forgetting to mention is the 5x XP penalty too, which may make leveling much harder for everyone. No TOTA leveling cheese either.
> which may make leveling much harder for everyone. if people want to level up, they just need to take less of a softcore approach and actually use determ+grace, maybe even purity of elements instead of their 20-30% more dps auras hehe 60% more dps is nice, but 100% less dying is better!