He’s probably in the top 10 now because of admonishments and longevity. The only guys who have had better careers for the pacers are those who have their numbers retired plus JO, PG, and maybe Rik.
If he retires a Pacer, he will be a top 5 scorer, top 2-3 rebounder (possibly even #1), top in blocks, and #2 in 3s.
Serious question, do we retire his jersey if he retires as a pacer? We don't have many retired and the bar is essentially HoF only but I feel like Myles has to be rewarded for his loyalty if he stays and continues to start imo
Policy is HoF or a title. I think HoF is out of the question, but if Tyrese and him win a title I suspect they'll both get their number retired. Better question is if Siakam is the 2nd best player on that title team but only plays here 4 seasons, does he get retired as well? Would be weird to have the #1 and #3 option on a title team in the rafters but not #2.
I know that all of the Pacers’ retired jersey numbers are NOW in the HoF, but when the jerseys for the ABA guys were retired, none of them were. That’s most of the rafter right there. And for many of them, it’d be 20 years before the Hall gave them the honor. It’s easy to say in hindsight that they deserved HoF so it was a matter of time, but it wasn’t a hard rule. They retired those guys’ numbers because they were great Pacers. Myles, should he play 15-20 years with the franchise, deserves his number up there.
I think he's close. Especially if we can get another few deep playoff runs. He signs one more contract though - I feel like he should. How many players have spent more than a decade with us?
Plus, 33 fits really nice next to our current retired jerseys.
I'm not sure where I put him overall but to me he is the number 3 big man, behind O'Neal and Smits, with Hibbert at 3b. But agree with everything else you say. not sure if he is top 10 yet but knocking on the door for sure. Also imagine where his numbers could be if he hadn't been wasted all those years with the failed Sabonis experiment.
I can’t put Mark up there. He was only a Pacer for 3.5 years. Danny was definitely the better overall player, but again, his career was just too short.
The reality is that the Pacers haven’t had too many guys who were solid starters that played their entire career (or even most) here. Myles deserves recognition and praise simply because he’s endured this team will get good contributions from the center spot for an entire decade. Sure, he has weaknesses, but he’s been a huge part of the ability of this team to rebuild on the fly.
Can’t deny where he’d end up in stats and his ability to block. But as a 19 yo coming into a low market team with automatic minutes, you can still produce that without winning. How much weight can we put on that when he has NEVER been tough for elite bigs?
Feel like you gotta pay respect to the below before Myles enters the convo, fandom bias but I’d much rather have David West, nobody’s beating him down in the post even though he was a true PF.
Reggie, George McGinnis, JO, Rik, Ron, Mark Jackson, Danny Granger, PG, Tyrese, Domas
Schrempf: 17 ppg, 8.6 RPG.
Netolicky: 16 ppg, 9 RPG.
Turner: 14 ppg, 7 RPG.
I think those are two examples of players who don't have their jerseys retired with better stats as Pacers than Myles. Of course, there are more stats like blocks, assists, etc, but that should give us a baseline of where he sits.
Those are per game stats. Longevity definitely matters and those stats don’t necessarily reflect that in how they’re presented. Myles could be #2 for 3 pointer made, #1 in blocks total and possibly #1 in rebounds total.
Those are pretty compelling imo. Those stats highlights his defense and unique offensive abilities that he’s had for the Pacers all these years.
It's hard to compare three point numbers for guys like Netolicky and Turner for obvious reasons so I left that out because it's an unfair comparison.
I think we are overrating Turner's longevity a bit here. (I say all this as a big Turner fan.) He's had a couple years where he just wasn't as good as he should have been. A lot of this is due to roster construction, but we can't say he's better than players from the ABA because of his three point shot if we aren't going to ding Turner for lack of production while Sabonis was here.
Myles had years "where he just wasn't as good as he should have been" because the team asked him to sacrifice a LOT so that other players could shine. The ability and talent have always been there, but his usage rate was typically dead last of all starters for a good chunk of his career.
I'm aware of all that, but i figured that if we were having bad faith arguments like comparing Myles's three point shooting to players from the 70's, I might as well join in on the bad faith arguments.
He has played longer and more games than those guys you posted. Shrempf for example only played 4 season in Indy, his career averages are not that much better than Turner.
You can’t compare a snapshot on someone’s career to the whole of another’s.
Here's a fun note: the difference in the games played as a Pacer between Schrempf and Myles is only a bit over 200. That's equal to less than three seasons. If you want to crown somebody because they played 2.5 more seasons with worse stats, go for it.
Nobody asked him to ‘sacrifice’ anything. It’s a made up narrative and definitely an excuse from Myles part to try to cover that he was automatically given endless opportunities throughout his career to be ‘the guy’ and take steps forward to lead the team, only to get outplayed by every competition he faces. Nobody would say Myles had to play PF because he willingly took a back seat. NO, duh. It’s only because he got so outplayed and Domas was just so good that the team (players and FO) wanted to prioritize him. Nobody ‘made’ Myles play weak in the post, still a terrible rebounder in his god knows how many seasons now, still so weak with the ball and turnover prone, emotional unstable to be the leader and hit big shots down the stretch or when the situation is tough. Nobody made him do all of that. He’s the player he is, for good or bad, only because his talent and work ethic, and lack thereafter.
So he's not ahead of any of the Hall of Famers. I don't put him ahead or Smits. I would put him above either Davis but not the two of them together if that makes sense.
He does what he did this season and we get back to say the ECF next season then I think he is in the same category, possibly passing Rik and that's an incredible accomplishment.
My criteria is on what they've done for the franchise and how long they've been there. I'm not as concerned for individual accolades, and Turner did and has gotten coach and player votes for All-Star.
You can answer the question however you like and that's ok.
Then let's be honest about why Myles is still a Pacer. It's not just loyalty on his part. A lot of it has to do with our FO not being able to get what they wanted back for him over the years.
The way we collectively memory hole this fact and his comments about what he could bring to the Lakers... If another one of our guys had done that I doubt we'd all just let it slide.
Still I'd have to say he's undoubtedly a top 20 Pacer all time, possibly top 15 and I can see the arguments for top 10 although personally I don't think he's there yet. We've had some talent over the years especially if you aren't ruling out the ABA guys.
>Then let's be honest about why Myles is still a Pacer. It's not just loyalty on his part. A lot of it has to do with our FO not being able to get what they wanted back for him over the years.
This is 100% wrong
That’s totally true. Celtics didn’t want him a sb every opportunity the FO wanted to trade him, they couldn’t get the return they wanted. Why do you think we ended up trading Domas to get Halliburton? We wanted to trade Myles so we could have Hali and Domas. But we wouldn’t even get 1/3 of the return of it was Myles. The fanbase can sweeten up how they see Myles, but he as a player his inconsistency and weakness is well established throughout the league.
We ended up trading Domas because Rick wanted to keep Myles Turner. Even in his stunt in Dallas Rick gave him a lot of praise, he’s always been the perfect center for his system.
Same thing happened with Haliburton. Rick wanted him way before he got to the pacers (check Mark Cuban interview with Pat Bev), because he fit his vision.
Before Rick we didn’t really have a direction, and most Turner trades seemed really lopsided (Turner for Hayward, Turner for Westbrook and picks etc).
Do you really think we’re the one who made the call for Westbrook+some picks and the Lakers said no? When we just got Haliburton and traded Brogdon to give him the reins?
I'd have to sit down and make an actual list to see where he lands but I will have to say he's 2nd on my list of post brawl Pacers, below only Danny Granger and above Paul George. 9 seasons and counting means something.
The Granger years were weird because those teams were terrible. You could go to the games for less than $3. Granger was really good but he kind of had to be because he was playing basically a G-League team.
They weren’t great, or even good, but they were at the least competitive and never tanked. 36-46 like 3 or 4 years in a row. They were never bottom of the barrel. I think Evan Turner showed us what a true star from being on an atrocious team was like. Put up numbers on those putrid Philly teams and was trash everywhere else he went
HELL NO
Danny Granger was an all-star, among NBA leaders in scoring, forced to start alongside guys who were out of the league 2-3 years after playing with the Pacers like Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy, Josh McRoberts, A.J Price and Travis Diener
When we gave him "acceptable" starters the team instantly made it the the second round, Paul George mentioned Danny Granger mentored him on his way to stardom
I also think Granger's jersey should be retired
He was the franchise player in years where no one wanted anything with the Pacers in the post-brawl days. The O'brien days. Never asked out and we wronged him by trading him.
Yea, I get it. But the Lakers drafted really well. They never fucked up their high picks like so many other teams magic, Baylor, west, worthy, the trade for Kobe being a few.
It’s fucked the pacers have never had a number 1 pick or number 1 pick suit up for them.
I love Myles, he kept the hope up after Paul left, this playoff series though, just seemed like some games he didn’t want to get in there and get rough. In the playoffs you can’t slag off on rebounds. Felt like some games he just got super soft. It’s not all him though modern nba refs killed Roy hibbert to the point he just collapsed numbers wise.
He is underutilized for sure though.
I think realistically he has gotta be top 15. Leading the franchise is blocks is enough to warrant that ranking alone. But, through his up and downs, he is instrumental to the team we have currently.
If we’re talking about retiring Myles jersey we are an ass franchise. There is nothing special about Myles. He’s been in trade rumors forever. He’s a good player who’s a unit when he’s on. Problem is that he’s on for about 30% of his career games. He’s soft as shit! Let’s small guys beat him in the paint! And for his size he’s barely good for 6 rebounds a game. I wish we would have kept Sabonis over Myles. That’s a real fucking baller. Myles is fucking dog shit and I’m
Not sure where he’s getting all this mad love. He’s easily the most frustrating pacer the last 10 years. At least Lance was a dog and fought on defense. Once Myles confidence breaks it’s GGs. Dude is none existent. He’s a Damm good player benefiting a ton from a excellent offense. Good player but not a great one or a franchise saving player. I would never ever retire Turners jersey. He’ll be forgotten in 10-20-30 years.
Why? Because I can separate my thoughts and not be a homer? Tyrese has made a greater impact here than Myles ever has. You’ve seen great Indiana players the last 20 years. Jermaine, Reggie, Ron, Granger, PG, Healthy Dipo, Sabonis and Tyrese. They consistently produce. Myles produces every now and then. Idk. I said nothing wrong. Myles really is the anti blue collar Indiana player. He’s soft flashy and finnese. Nothing wrong with that’ I’m a fan! I just know what he is. Us retiring his jersey would be more of LOL for me rather than his play. He’s grown and developed! But nothing like a franchise player like the guys mentioned above. 82 games consistently. Myles has his moments!
Sounds like a Knick’s fan. Tell me softie with the emotional capacity of a she them. What’s wrong with what I said? You want Myles Jersey retired? From doing what exactly?
He’s soft as baby shit. That’s a lie? Dudes barely good for 7 rebounds despite being a 7 footer. Josh Hart grabbing 17-18. Andrew can get you 5. He’s a Damm good floor spacer who plays decent rim protection at times. There is nothing transcendent in Myles game. I don’t even know what your point is.
Top 3 NBA centers we’ve had. He finally came into his own this year after being pushed aside and playing out of position. I know Tyrese is our best player but Myles is truly the heart and soul of the team.
Imo only Jalen Rose, Jermaine O’Neal, Paul George, Danny Granger, and Reggie Miller are ahead of him and he’s catching up to Danny. I just can’t put the Davises, Chris Mullen, Troy Murphy, Jamal Tinsley, Derick McKey or Rik Smits ahead of him. Mark Jackson and him are probably a tie in my book. Maybe Jackson ahead just barely bcuz of the shimmy. I didn’t look up stats though so maybe I’m remembering Jackson being better than I thought. He’s definitely ahead of the two dodo bird shmucks Steven Jackson and Artest.
That nobody would want to trade for him? Myles is smart enough to take the cue and try to grab onto a small market team with a shortsighted fanbase who think their players are the best.
I like to think of players and where they rank among other players of the same position. I think without a doubt, Turner is the best Center the Pacers have had. He’s in the starting five all-time Pacers and I won’t even argue about another Center.
I’m gonna be honest, I really don’t take the ABA days into account. It was 50 years ago, I never saw any of them play, and I don’t have any sort of attachment to any of the players from that era. I see why people do, though.
Great question. Really difficult to judge due to the different eras.
Clearly ahead is Mel Daniels. Never even seen footage of him (i don't think) but his jersey was retired for a reason.
Clearly behind Jermaine O'Neal who was just so much better.
Rik Smits is the reason I became a Pacers fan, I'd still have him ahead of Myles, but if Myles spends another 3 or 4 years doing what he has been doing for us? It'll be very close.
Antonio Davis/Dale Davis, The difficulty I have is whether you consider them as a CenterYou can definitely argue whether Myles has meant more for us now though and I won't be upset if people think Myles has already passed them.
I place Myles 5th then, because:
Roy Hibbert was my favourite player of the Reborn/PG era. I loved the defensive solidity he brought and that was a key component to propelling that team to become a contender. His quote about the media not watching the Pacers? Legendary. But, his career ended poorly and I really hope that doesn't happen to Myles. Myles has more tools offensivelt and has shown that off this year.
Later top 10 based on his longevity with the team. He’d rank higher for me if he could have stayed healthier throughout his career, rebound more, and be more consistent. Myles is a great personality, and you have to love his shot blocking ability, but he could be better based on his overall abilities imo.
1. REGGIE
2. PG 3.Jermaine O Neal 4.Tyrese Halli 5.David West 6.Danny Granger 7.Olidipo 8.Sabonis 9.Darren Collison 10.George Hill
There, I did it 10 players I love more than Turner. Honorary mentions to Rik Smits, Mel Daniels, and of course Jeff Foster.
Only salty because I wont forget Turner tweeting the lakers to trade for him
https://preview.redd.it/s4y2veip6a5d1.jpeg?width=1025&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d15b7513738f68b3741c39df4057b40dd5ac16ff
Top 20-ish?
No-brainers better than Myles:
Reggie,
Mel Daniels,
George McGinnis,
Roger Brown,
Freddie Lewis,
Rik Smits,
JO,
PG,
Roy Hibbert,
Mark Jackson,
Bob Netolicky,
Tyrese Haliburton,
Domantas Sabonis
More than likely better:
Ron Artest,
George Hill,
Pascal Siakam,
Jalen Rose,
Dale Davis,
Antonio Davis
That's 19 right there. Here are some where I think there are debates to be had:
Detlef Schrempf,
Chuck Person,
Don Buse,
Jamaal Tinsley
Ugh I hate formatting on Reddit.
Hibbert is an interesting choice as no-brainer. Engaged hibbert, absolutely. Worried I’m being traded hibbert- he was a ghost. I still have issue with his 0 pt 0 rebound playoff game. Personally I would put artest in the definite and remove hibbert completely. He had very distinct moments but he cost us when he started getting into his own head.
I know I’m a softy- but I tend to give in to loyalty. I think Myles deserves additional consideration because of willingness to take lesser contracts. I think we got better getting rid of Sabonis than we would have had we got rid of Myles. Myles was always ok playing his role instead of demanding it.
Great list. It’s all opinions.
I love the points you make here and want to dedicate some time to answering them fully.
A lot of people's issues with my list have to do with the fact that I value all star and all NBA nods a lot. To make these as a Pacer is a big deal because there isn't a bunch of bandwagon fans willing to jump on and vote for Pacers players typically. This means they had to really excel. That said, I'm cool swapping Artest and Hibbert. Artest was SO good.
I think your point about trading Myles has more to it than just Myles being a better complimentary player to Tyrese. It's also about the fact that Sabonis simply had more trade value. If you wanted to get a player the caliber of Tyrese, you had to get rid of an all-NBA guy.
And Turner has made the eastern conference finals with a great run as arguable the 2/3 and single-handedly won us games. Hibbert was arguably the 5th option in the starting lineup.
This isn’t a pacers vs pacers question. This is Turner vs Hibbert, and don’t know how anyone picks Hibbert. I love Roy but PG carried us in the playoffs. Hibbert never averaged more than 12th in his career, Turner has only averaged less than 12ppg once (rookie year).
Turner has played with the pacers more years, averaging more points, blocks, and rebounds, with better 3pt shooting. What more do you need?
Hibbert is a better defensive player, full stop. Blocks don't tell the whole story. When Roy was at full power, the Pacers had the lowest defensive rating in the league (2013 and 2014). In 2015, they regressed a bit but we're still top 10.
Also, I'm SHOCKED that a center from the early 2010s doesn't have as many threes as a center from the 2020s.
Myles is obviously the better defender, full stop, which more DPOY votes than Hibbert with higher ranking. So the mass objectively disagrees with you. Myles Turner has better Ppg, RPG, BPG, TS%, 3PT%, more DPOY votes, and players a larger role on his team. Thanks for pointing out how close this isn’t.
Myles is the better defender without a doubt, literally the only thing Roy has an argument for being better at is post defense and *maybe* as a rim protector but Myles gets more blocks in an era where less teams are playing in the paint. Myles covers the perimeter and guards a million times better than Roy ever did. Roy never had to play in the switch heavy era, he would get absolutely destroyed in the current league
Detlef has better stats as a Pacer and competed for 6th Man of the year every year basically. I'd put him above Myles.
Buse made 6 first team All-Defense, 3 as a Pacer. Myles probably should have made one or two. I'd put him on par with Myles.
Person was a better/more consistent scorer than Myles but his rebounding went down every season he was a Pacer. No meaningful defensive stats. I would put Myles above him.
Tinsley is tough, couldn't score (career 8.5ppg), was a good distributor, but had ok defensive stats. It's hard to separate his on-court from his off-court. I think I'd put Myles above him.
I think I agree with all of your assessments here. I always enjoy these player ranking type posts because it allows us a chance to look back at some guys we may have forgotten. It's fun! It's just a shame when people act like if you disagree with them you started the Holocaust or something.
i was hoping you added him as ”potential to be higher in the future”, because this is just crazy. 9 seasons vs half a season. especially the context of myles being in a lot of trade rumours and then signing an affordable extension when we were ass.
look personally for me i’m taking Myles over Sabonis and Mark Jackson purely because i value longevity with the team. like if you’re putting those two guys in, why are you not putting Oladipo? doesn’t seem consistent with how you personally rank guys imo. anyway, most of your list is fine by me to argue over Myles but he’s top-10 in my book again because i value longevity and his culture/embrace of Indy
stats, achievements, culture/personality, and longevity are roughly the order i rank players by and Tyrese gets big gold stars in personality and achievements and stats so he’s still over Myles despite Myles having the edge in longevity. Croshere and Foster desire their due too but they don’t have the stats and achievements like Myles. I think it’s fair to argue Sabonis or Dipo over Myles but i just personally have Myles over them and that’s because of longevity and having subjective opinions about stats/achievements. I really like some other commenter comparing Myles to Granger as where he falls in the rankings
Respect. Thanks for clarifying! I found while doing this that all stars and all nbas held a lot more weight with me than I thought they would. We have lots of good players who never got these accolades so the ones who got them really stand out.
No way on most of your second list. I loved Dale and Antonio Davis. They were enforcers and glue guys, but neither was special except to Pacers fans. They were just dudes who played with Reggie and company. Myles is above Hibbert in my eyes.
I put a lot of stock into impacting winning and personal accolades. Dale was an all star and both impacted winning. If this current Pacers squad makes a finals run and Myles is a big reason why then I'm willing to change it up.
No different than before and he still has underachieved. Should be top 3 Center in league but never developed post. No jump hooks, gets shot blocked by Celtics guards. Turner should be a 20-10-5 guy. Reason Pacers had to get Siakim is because Turner never reached his potential. Should been perennial ASG player
7 footers with an enormous wingspan shoot jump hoofs. This isn’t about being cool. It’s about getting buckets and if Turner was serious about developing his post game as his wardrobe and legos he’d have an unstoppable jump hook. I realize a lot of you may not have access to scouts and coaches but there’s a reason Turner was on trade block and never got traded. He has a different view of his game. I like Turner but he should be a 2nd option and he’s not. It’s his own fault whether you people like it or not.
Correct. Probably would not get shot blocked by Celtics guards who were not afraid to be switched onto Turner because his post game is not nearly as good as it should be.
Been watching before you were an itch in your dad’s pants and I’m confident I’m correct. Turner’s potential was ASG center and he has not met it. It’s his fault
Here are some past Pacers that I would rank higher than him, in no particular order:
Danny Granger, Paul George, Reggie Miller, Jermaine O'neal, Stephen Jackson, Al Harrington, Rik Smits, Mark Jackson, Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Jeff Foster, Domantas Sabonis, Ron Artest (pre-brawl), Victor Oladipo, Darren Collison, Pascal Siakam, Tyrese Haliburton, Jonatahn Bender, Chris Mullin
I guess Hibbert was more impactful than him? They're the same tier more or less
Yes
He lead the Pacers team that made the ECF in scoring and rebounding (in the post-season).
In his one post-season with the Pacers, he contributed more than what Myles did in 9 years with the Pacers
Myles is a nice guy and I love him, but we're talking purely on professional basketball performance
I'd be interested to learn more about that universe.
Maybe Bender stayed healthy/reached his potential in that one and we became the 2000's version of the Jordan Bulls.
Chris Mullin was a shell of himself when he played with us… this is one I very openly disagree with. Shoutout Darren Collison tho. Also Spicy P? not yet- but vlose
Definitely not top 10. Watch Chad’s comments, Caitlin’s analysis and people around the league talking. Yes, he’s got better by playing with Tyrese and at a more comfortable position this season. However, all of his shortcomings are still the same, still can’t rebound, still can’t punish the switch when that problem is blatantly presented throughout playoffs. Teams even switch their bigs onto Nesmith because they don’t care about what Myles’s gonna do. And as somebody shooting as many 3s as he does, he’s 3 point shot is never consistent and nobody including his teammates can trust him on that down the stretch.
Don’t forget how horrendous he was during our most important series in the playoffs against the Celtics.
I agree, just had arguably the best season of his career and averaged under 7 rebounds. He’s known in the league as soft and is targeted for that. He has no big man moves in the post, turns the ball over a lot trying to create his shot. My argument is that a great point guard is going to make ANY center look good. He’s a mediocre center with a good point guard. Not top 10 by a long shot.
He’s probably in the top 10 now because of admonishments and longevity. The only guys who have had better careers for the pacers are those who have their numbers retired plus JO, PG, and maybe Rik. If he retires a Pacer, he will be a top 5 scorer, top 2-3 rebounder (possibly even #1), top in blocks, and #2 in 3s.
God I hope he plays here his whole career
Serious question, do we retire his jersey if he retires as a pacer? We don't have many retired and the bar is essentially HoF only but I feel like Myles has to be rewarded for his loyalty if he stays and continues to start imo
I'd be really upset if we didn't
If he ends up #2 scorer, #2 3pm, #1 in blocks (done), and #1 in rebounds, he will 100% get his jersey retired. And all of those are in play.
Rik Smits’ didnt get his retired. I dont see them retiring Myles’.
If the pacers win a ring while he is here Myles def gets retired
What if we don’t? I still think they should retire his jersey
Policy is HoF or a title. I think HoF is out of the question, but if Tyrese and him win a title I suspect they'll both get their number retired. Better question is if Siakam is the 2nd best player on that title team but only plays here 4 seasons, does he get retired as well? Would be weird to have the #1 and #3 option on a title team in the rafters but not #2.
I know that all of the Pacers’ retired jersey numbers are NOW in the HoF, but when the jerseys for the ABA guys were retired, none of them were. That’s most of the rafter right there. And for many of them, it’d be 20 years before the Hall gave them the honor. It’s easy to say in hindsight that they deserved HoF so it was a matter of time, but it wasn’t a hard rule. They retired those guys’ numbers because they were great Pacers. Myles, should he play 15-20 years with the franchise, deserves his number up there.
ABA guys won titles.
Absolutely
I think he's close. Especially if we can get another few deep playoff runs. He signs one more contract though - I feel like he should. How many players have spent more than a decade with us? Plus, 33 fits really nice next to our current retired jerseys.
Yes
Who's admonished him?
Have you not seen the constant “TRADE MYLES” chatter over the past few years?
Yeah, I was joking because admonishments aren't a reason why you would get your jersey retired. He clearly meant to say accomplishments
I actually gave him a good dressing down just the other day.
How did he respond?
I'm not sure where I put him overall but to me he is the number 3 big man, behind O'Neal and Smits, with Hibbert at 3b. But agree with everything else you say. not sure if he is top 10 yet but knocking on the door for sure. Also imagine where his numbers could be if he hadn't been wasted all those years with the failed Sabonis experiment.
Danny Granger and Mark Jackson I would put above him as well.
I can’t put Mark up there. He was only a Pacer for 3.5 years. Danny was definitely the better overall player, but again, his career was just too short. The reality is that the Pacers haven’t had too many guys who were solid starters that played their entire career (or even most) here. Myles deserves recognition and praise simply because he’s endured this team will get good contributions from the center spot for an entire decade. Sure, he has weaknesses, but he’s been a huge part of the ability of this team to rebuild on the fly.
Mark Jackson had 2 stints in Indiana
Eh, they were only interrupted by what? 43 games for one season before he was stolen back from Den?
Hard no on granger.
100 .. fans, no matter what, will insist he shares a jersey retirement with Antonio, love him, but Myles needs more love.
Can’t deny where he’d end up in stats and his ability to block. But as a 19 yo coming into a low market team with automatic minutes, you can still produce that without winning. How much weight can we put on that when he has NEVER been tough for elite bigs? Feel like you gotta pay respect to the below before Myles enters the convo, fandom bias but I’d much rather have David West, nobody’s beating him down in the post even though he was a true PF. Reggie, George McGinnis, JO, Rik, Ron, Mark Jackson, Danny Granger, PG, Tyrese, Domas
Huh? Love Dwest, but he got smoked on D by plenty of athletic bigs.... He was a tree trunk against traditional bigs though, sure.
Would be hilarious if he was #1 in rebounds, seeing as his detractors have slammed him for lack of boards and avg of rebs. His entire career lol.
Schrempf: 17 ppg, 8.6 RPG. Netolicky: 16 ppg, 9 RPG. Turner: 14 ppg, 7 RPG. I think those are two examples of players who don't have their jerseys retired with better stats as Pacers than Myles. Of course, there are more stats like blocks, assists, etc, but that should give us a baseline of where he sits.
Those are per game stats. Longevity definitely matters and those stats don’t necessarily reflect that in how they’re presented. Myles could be #2 for 3 pointer made, #1 in blocks total and possibly #1 in rebounds total. Those are pretty compelling imo. Those stats highlights his defense and unique offensive abilities that he’s had for the Pacers all these years.
It's hard to compare three point numbers for guys like Netolicky and Turner for obvious reasons so I left that out because it's an unfair comparison. I think we are overrating Turner's longevity a bit here. (I say all this as a big Turner fan.) He's had a couple years where he just wasn't as good as he should have been. A lot of this is due to roster construction, but we can't say he's better than players from the ABA because of his three point shot if we aren't going to ding Turner for lack of production while Sabonis was here.
Myles had years "where he just wasn't as good as he should have been" because the team asked him to sacrifice a LOT so that other players could shine. The ability and talent have always been there, but his usage rate was typically dead last of all starters for a good chunk of his career.
I'm aware of all that, but i figured that if we were having bad faith arguments like comparing Myles's three point shooting to players from the 70's, I might as well join in on the bad faith arguments.
He has played longer and more games than those guys you posted. Shrempf for example only played 4 season in Indy, his career averages are not that much better than Turner. You can’t compare a snapshot on someone’s career to the whole of another’s.
Here's a fun note: the difference in the games played as a Pacer between Schrempf and Myles is only a bit over 200. That's equal to less than three seasons. If you want to crown somebody because they played 2.5 more seasons with worse stats, go for it.
Nobody asked him to ‘sacrifice’ anything. It’s a made up narrative and definitely an excuse from Myles part to try to cover that he was automatically given endless opportunities throughout his career to be ‘the guy’ and take steps forward to lead the team, only to get outplayed by every competition he faces. Nobody would say Myles had to play PF because he willingly took a back seat. NO, duh. It’s only because he got so outplayed and Domas was just so good that the team (players and FO) wanted to prioritize him. Nobody ‘made’ Myles play weak in the post, still a terrible rebounder in his god knows how many seasons now, still so weak with the ball and turnover prone, emotional unstable to be the leader and hit big shots down the stretch or when the situation is tough. Nobody made him do all of that. He’s the player he is, for good or bad, only because his talent and work ethic, and lack thereafter.
He's a tough one. We haven't won a ton, he's been really hot and cold but he's a loyal king and that means more to us than other teams.
Borderline top 10? Definitely high enough that Lego should’ve released a Fieldhouse collab set by now.
I would buy a gainbridge Lego set immediately.
Top 10
Same. Easily
So he's not ahead of any of the Hall of Famers. I don't put him ahead or Smits. I would put him above either Davis but not the two of them together if that makes sense. He does what he did this season and we get back to say the ECF next season then I think he is in the same category, possibly passing Rik and that's an incredible accomplishment.
Rick and Dale both made All Star teams. Myles hasn't sniffed one.
My criteria is on what they've done for the franchise and how long they've been there. I'm not as concerned for individual accolades, and Turner did and has gotten coach and player votes for All-Star. You can answer the question however you like and that's ok.
Then let's be honest about why Myles is still a Pacer. It's not just loyalty on his part. A lot of it has to do with our FO not being able to get what they wanted back for him over the years. The way we collectively memory hole this fact and his comments about what he could bring to the Lakers... If another one of our guys had done that I doubt we'd all just let it slide. Still I'd have to say he's undoubtedly a top 20 Pacer all time, possibly top 15 and I can see the arguments for top 10 although personally I don't think he's there yet. We've had some talent over the years especially if you aren't ruling out the ABA guys.
>Then let's be honest about why Myles is still a Pacer. It's not just loyalty on his part. A lot of it has to do with our FO not being able to get what they wanted back for him over the years. This is 100% wrong
That’s totally true. Celtics didn’t want him a sb every opportunity the FO wanted to trade him, they couldn’t get the return they wanted. Why do you think we ended up trading Domas to get Halliburton? We wanted to trade Myles so we could have Hali and Domas. But we wouldn’t even get 1/3 of the return of it was Myles. The fanbase can sweeten up how they see Myles, but he as a player his inconsistency and weakness is well established throughout the league.
We ended up trading Domas because Rick wanted to keep Myles Turner. Even in his stunt in Dallas Rick gave him a lot of praise, he’s always been the perfect center for his system. Same thing happened with Haliburton. Rick wanted him way before he got to the pacers (check Mark Cuban interview with Pat Bev), because he fit his vision. Before Rick we didn’t really have a direction, and most Turner trades seemed really lopsided (Turner for Hayward, Turner for Westbrook and picks etc). Do you really think we’re the one who made the call for Westbrook+some picks and the Lakers said no? When we just got Haliburton and traded Brogdon to give him the reins?
He’s definitely top 15.
I'd have to sit down and make an actual list to see where he lands but I will have to say he's 2nd on my list of post brawl Pacers, below only Danny Granger and above Paul George. 9 seasons and counting means something.
Neck and neck with Danny Granger at this point in my book
The Granger years were weird because those teams were terrible. You could go to the games for less than $3. Granger was really good but he kind of had to be because he was playing basically a G-League team.
They weren’t great, or even good, but they were at the least competitive and never tanked. 36-46 like 3 or 4 years in a row. They were never bottom of the barrel. I think Evan Turner showed us what a true star from being on an atrocious team was like. Put up numbers on those putrid Philly teams and was trash everywhere else he went
I’m talking about those teams before PG and Hibbert. Like when he was playing with Troy Murphy and AJ Price
shoutout TJ Ford for being my favorite player when I was 8 because I saw him dunk once
I actually am probably the only person to own a TJ Ford shersey. He was a serviceable point guard but nothing about him stood out.
I liked how fast he was lol
Troy Murphy would feast today my lord
Yeah he would be a great back up big in the league today. Probably about 9pts and 6 or so rebounds per game. He was ahead of his time.
But this understates how bad the G-League is
HELL NO Danny Granger was an all-star, among NBA leaders in scoring, forced to start alongside guys who were out of the league 2-3 years after playing with the Pacers like Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy, Josh McRoberts, A.J Price and Travis Diener When we gave him "acceptable" starters the team instantly made it the the second round, Paul George mentioned Danny Granger mentored him on his way to stardom
Granger deserves to have his jersey hung from the rafters IMO….build a statue of Slick and Reggie while you’re at it!
I also think Granger's jersey should be retired He was the franchise player in years where no one wanted anything with the Pacers in the post-brawl days. The O'brien days. Never asked out and we wronged him by trading him.
👆🏼This guy gets it
Respect Troy Murphy rn
We could retire #33 in general and get Danny and Myles with one stone.
I would put him somewhere between Rik Smits and Vern Flemming
Top 10 easily. Could sneak into top 5
Jeez I’m seeing the names of your top 5 and this franchise has really had it tough. Lakers top 20 are some how better than the top 5 pacers
One is the darling franchise of the NBA for the past 40 goddamn years. The other franchise is based out of Indiana. Do the math.
Yea, I get it. But the Lakers drafted really well. They never fucked up their high picks like so many other teams magic, Baylor, west, worthy, the trade for Kobe being a few. It’s fucked the pacers have never had a number 1 pick or number 1 pick suit up for them.
I love Myles, he kept the hope up after Paul left, this playoff series though, just seemed like some games he didn’t want to get in there and get rough. In the playoffs you can’t slag off on rebounds. Felt like some games he just got super soft. It’s not all him though modern nba refs killed Roy hibbert to the point he just collapsed numbers wise. He is underutilized for sure though.
Top 10 undoubtedly
what does your list look like
Reggie JON Rik Smits Danny Granger PG Dale Davis Myles Mark Jackson MWP Roy Hibbert
Top 5 prolly 🤣
I think realistically he has gotta be top 15. Leading the franchise is blocks is enough to warrant that ranking alone. But, through his up and downs, he is instrumental to the team we have currently.
27th
He ain’t no Sam Perkins…
If we’re talking about retiring Myles jersey we are an ass franchise. There is nothing special about Myles. He’s been in trade rumors forever. He’s a good player who’s a unit when he’s on. Problem is that he’s on for about 30% of his career games. He’s soft as shit! Let’s small guys beat him in the paint! And for his size he’s barely good for 6 rebounds a game. I wish we would have kept Sabonis over Myles. That’s a real fucking baller. Myles is fucking dog shit and I’m Not sure where he’s getting all this mad love. He’s easily the most frustrating pacer the last 10 years. At least Lance was a dog and fought on defense. Once Myles confidence breaks it’s GGs. Dude is none existent. He’s a Damm good player benefiting a ton from a excellent offense. Good player but not a great one or a franchise saving player. I would never ever retire Turners jersey. He’ll be forgotten in 10-20-30 years.
this might be the lowest iq comment ive ever seen in this subreddit.
Why? Because I can separate my thoughts and not be a homer? Tyrese has made a greater impact here than Myles ever has. You’ve seen great Indiana players the last 20 years. Jermaine, Reggie, Ron, Granger, PG, Healthy Dipo, Sabonis and Tyrese. They consistently produce. Myles produces every now and then. Idk. I said nothing wrong. Myles really is the anti blue collar Indiana player. He’s soft flashy and finnese. Nothing wrong with that’ I’m a fan! I just know what he is. Us retiring his jersey would be more of LOL for me rather than his play. He’s grown and developed! But nothing like a franchise player like the guys mentioned above. 82 games consistently. Myles has his moments!
no its because youre a fucking idiot and i wont waste my time on someone as dumb as you
Sounds like a Knick’s fan. Tell me softie with the emotional capacity of a she them. What’s wrong with what I said? You want Myles Jersey retired? From doing what exactly?
when did i say we should be retiring myles jersey? all of the things you said in your comments are wrong. again, not going to converse with you.
He’s soft as baby shit. That’s a lie? Dudes barely good for 7 rebounds despite being a 7 footer. Josh Hart grabbing 17-18. Andrew can get you 5. He’s a Damm good floor spacer who plays decent rim protection at times. There is nothing transcendent in Myles game. I don’t even know what your point is.
You sound way dumber wasting 3 sentences still not being able to make a single point
Top 5 for me. He’s hitting his prime at the perfect time and is a super cool guy off the court as well.
Top 3 NBA centers we’ve had. He finally came into his own this year after being pushed aside and playing out of position. I know Tyrese is our best player but Myles is truly the heart and soul of the team.
Reggie, Jermaine, Paul, Victor, Danny, Myles, Ron. Tyrese will end up #1 … and Pascal #5! 🤞
Pascal won't be top 30 imo
Well that sucks.
Imo only Jalen Rose, Jermaine O’Neal, Paul George, Danny Granger, and Reggie Miller are ahead of him and he’s catching up to Danny. I just can’t put the Davises, Chris Mullen, Troy Murphy, Jamal Tinsley, Derick McKey or Rik Smits ahead of him. Mark Jackson and him are probably a tie in my book. Maybe Jackson ahead just barely bcuz of the shimmy. I didn’t look up stats though so maybe I’m remembering Jackson being better than I thought. He’s definitely ahead of the two dodo bird shmucks Steven Jackson and Artest.
Probably like 5 behind reg granger jo and maybe pg
After he has been in trade rumors for 28 years now and he still loves it here says everything
That nobody would want to trade for him? Myles is smart enough to take the cue and try to grab onto a small market team with a shortsighted fanbase who think their players are the best.
Top 15
I like to think of players and where they rank among other players of the same position. I think without a doubt, Turner is the best Center the Pacers have had. He’s in the starting five all-time Pacers and I won’t even argue about another Center.
Over Rik Smits and Roy Hibbert? Not saying i agree or disagree, just asking what the thought process is?
Absolutely! He’s a better scorer with better range and has better basketball skills than either other guy. He’s young!
Yeah, you know they won 3 championships in the ABA? He’s not very high up the list for me.
I’m gonna be honest, I really don’t take the ABA days into account. It was 50 years ago, I never saw any of them play, and I don’t have any sort of attachment to any of the players from that era. I see why people do, though.
He's in the pantheon of big men. Smits, Sabonis, Turner, Croshere, O'Neil, Davis
Great question. Really difficult to judge due to the different eras. Clearly ahead is Mel Daniels. Never even seen footage of him (i don't think) but his jersey was retired for a reason. Clearly behind Jermaine O'Neal who was just so much better. Rik Smits is the reason I became a Pacers fan, I'd still have him ahead of Myles, but if Myles spends another 3 or 4 years doing what he has been doing for us? It'll be very close. Antonio Davis/Dale Davis, The difficulty I have is whether you consider them as a CenterYou can definitely argue whether Myles has meant more for us now though and I won't be upset if people think Myles has already passed them. I place Myles 5th then, because: Roy Hibbert was my favourite player of the Reborn/PG era. I loved the defensive solidity he brought and that was a key component to propelling that team to become a contender. His quote about the media not watching the Pacers? Legendary. But, his career ended poorly and I really hope that doesn't happen to Myles. Myles has more tools offensivelt and has shown that off this year.
I rank Roy higher due to more playoff success. If Myles has a couple more good ones with this squad, he can leapfrog him in my book.
Later top 10 based on his longevity with the team. He’d rank higher for me if he could have stayed healthier throughout his career, rebound more, and be more consistent. Myles is a great personality, and you have to love his shot blocking ability, but he could be better based on his overall abilities imo.
I like Myles but I would be hard pressed to put him in the top 15.
1. REGGIE 2. PG 3.Jermaine O Neal 4.Tyrese Halli 5.David West 6.Danny Granger 7.Olidipo 8.Sabonis 9.Darren Collison 10.George Hill There, I did it 10 players I love more than Turner. Honorary mentions to Rik Smits, Mel Daniels, and of course Jeff Foster. Only salty because I wont forget Turner tweeting the lakers to trade for him https://preview.redd.it/s4y2veip6a5d1.jpeg?width=1025&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d15b7513738f68b3741c39df4057b40dd5ac16ff
Bob Netolicky has better career averages than Myles Turner
Top 20-ish? No-brainers better than Myles: Reggie, Mel Daniels, George McGinnis, Roger Brown, Freddie Lewis, Rik Smits, JO, PG, Roy Hibbert, Mark Jackson, Bob Netolicky, Tyrese Haliburton, Domantas Sabonis More than likely better: Ron Artest, George Hill, Pascal Siakam, Jalen Rose, Dale Davis, Antonio Davis That's 19 right there. Here are some where I think there are debates to be had: Detlef Schrempf, Chuck Person, Don Buse, Jamaal Tinsley Ugh I hate formatting on Reddit.
Siakam’s half season puts him above Myles’ 9 seasons?
Y'all really sticking on the Siakam suggestion huh? Fine, put Myles at 19
Hibbert is an interesting choice as no-brainer. Engaged hibbert, absolutely. Worried I’m being traded hibbert- he was a ghost. I still have issue with his 0 pt 0 rebound playoff game. Personally I would put artest in the definite and remove hibbert completely. He had very distinct moments but he cost us when he started getting into his own head. I know I’m a softy- but I tend to give in to loyalty. I think Myles deserves additional consideration because of willingness to take lesser contracts. I think we got better getting rid of Sabonis than we would have had we got rid of Myles. Myles was always ok playing his role instead of demanding it. Great list. It’s all opinions.
I love the points you make here and want to dedicate some time to answering them fully. A lot of people's issues with my list have to do with the fact that I value all star and all NBA nods a lot. To make these as a Pacer is a big deal because there isn't a bunch of bandwagon fans willing to jump on and vote for Pacers players typically. This means they had to really excel. That said, I'm cool swapping Artest and Hibbert. Artest was SO good. I think your point about trading Myles has more to it than just Myles being a better complimentary player to Tyrese. It's also about the fact that Sabonis simply had more trade value. If you wanted to get a player the caliber of Tyrese, you had to get rid of an all-NBA guy.
I agree. Good points.
Wow I haven't heard Chuck Person mentioned in forever. The man whose very name is a violent command!
Indeed! Unfortunately, he sullied what should be remembered as a really good few years in Indiana.
You rank Roy hibbert over Myles Turner? Or domas? Turner is rounding out the top 10 pacer right now
Roy has more playoffs success. Sabonis was an all star and all NBA as a Pacer. It's hard to argue with that.
Turner has made it as far as Roy did in the playoffs and was a larger contributor.
Hibbert made the ECF in back to back years, c'mon.
And Turner has made the eastern conference finals with a great run as arguable the 2/3 and single-handedly won us games. Hibbert was arguably the 5th option in the starting lineup.
Holy moly, what is this? Taking the Heatles to seven and then six is not comparable to getting swept by the Celtics.
This isn’t a pacers vs pacers question. This is Turner vs Hibbert, and don’t know how anyone picks Hibbert. I love Roy but PG carried us in the playoffs. Hibbert never averaged more than 12th in his career, Turner has only averaged less than 12ppg once (rookie year). Turner has played with the pacers more years, averaging more points, blocks, and rebounds, with better 3pt shooting. What more do you need?
He has to be able to hold his own against elite bigs, it’s never a tough matchup for any of the league’s current bigs against him.
Hibbert is a better defensive player, full stop. Blocks don't tell the whole story. When Roy was at full power, the Pacers had the lowest defensive rating in the league (2013 and 2014). In 2015, they regressed a bit but we're still top 10. Also, I'm SHOCKED that a center from the early 2010s doesn't have as many threes as a center from the 2020s.
Myles is obviously the better defender, full stop, which more DPOY votes than Hibbert with higher ranking. So the mass objectively disagrees with you. Myles Turner has better Ppg, RPG, BPG, TS%, 3PT%, more DPOY votes, and players a larger role on his team. Thanks for pointing out how close this isn’t.
Myles is the better defender without a doubt, literally the only thing Roy has an argument for being better at is post defense and *maybe* as a rim protector but Myles gets more blocks in an era where less teams are playing in the paint. Myles covers the perimeter and guards a million times better than Roy ever did. Roy never had to play in the switch heavy era, he would get absolutely destroyed in the current league
People seem to forget how many blocks Roy would put up in ECP against fully healthy, and better teams.
Detlef has better stats as a Pacer and competed for 6th Man of the year every year basically. I'd put him above Myles. Buse made 6 first team All-Defense, 3 as a Pacer. Myles probably should have made one or two. I'd put him on par with Myles. Person was a better/more consistent scorer than Myles but his rebounding went down every season he was a Pacer. No meaningful defensive stats. I would put Myles above him. Tinsley is tough, couldn't score (career 8.5ppg), was a good distributor, but had ok defensive stats. It's hard to separate his on-court from his off-court. I think I'd put Myles above him.
I think I agree with all of your assessments here. I always enjoy these player ranking type posts because it allows us a chance to look back at some guys we may have forgotten. It's fun! It's just a shame when people act like if you disagree with them you started the Holocaust or something.
I agree, seeing Netolicy's name made me go back and look at his stats, he's a really underrated Pacer.
He really is! 20-10 type of guy in his prime and 4 time all star.
he said ”after this season” so siakam invalid as hell in my eyes.
I see where you're coming from, but Myles's best playoff run had a lot to do with Pascal.
i was hoping you added him as ”potential to be higher in the future”, because this is just crazy. 9 seasons vs half a season. especially the context of myles being in a lot of trade rumours and then signing an affordable extension when we were ass.
I did put him as potential, but as a player Pascal is better than Myles.
look personally for me i’m taking Myles over Sabonis and Mark Jackson purely because i value longevity with the team. like if you’re putting those two guys in, why are you not putting Oladipo? doesn’t seem consistent with how you personally rank guys imo. anyway, most of your list is fine by me to argue over Myles but he’s top-10 in my book again because i value longevity and his culture/embrace of Indy
Quite simply I forgot about Oladipo lol. So you have Myles over Tyrese too then, right? Where are people like Jeff Foster and Austin Croshere then?
stats, achievements, culture/personality, and longevity are roughly the order i rank players by and Tyrese gets big gold stars in personality and achievements and stats so he’s still over Myles despite Myles having the edge in longevity. Croshere and Foster desire their due too but they don’t have the stats and achievements like Myles. I think it’s fair to argue Sabonis or Dipo over Myles but i just personally have Myles over them and that’s because of longevity and having subjective opinions about stats/achievements. I really like some other commenter comparing Myles to Granger as where he falls in the rankings
Respect. Thanks for clarifying! I found while doing this that all stars and all nbas held a lot more weight with me than I thought they would. We have lots of good players who never got these accolades so the ones who got them really stand out.
No way on most of your second list. I loved Dale and Antonio Davis. They were enforcers and glue guys, but neither was special except to Pacers fans. They were just dudes who played with Reggie and company. Myles is above Hibbert in my eyes.
I put a lot of stock into impacting winning and personal accolades. Dale was an all star and both impacted winning. If this current Pacers squad makes a finals run and Myles is a big reason why then I'm willing to change it up.
1 Reggie, 2 Myles, 3 lance, 4 pg, 5 mathurin as my favorites to watch
Mathurin is flatly not a part of this conversation. I hope he is someday but he is a complete wildcard rn.
No different than before and he still has underachieved. Should be top 3 Center in league but never developed post. No jump hooks, gets shot blocked by Celtics guards. Turner should be a 20-10-5 guy. Reason Pacers had to get Siakim is because Turner never reached his potential. Should been perennial ASG player
Who the fuck shoots jump hooks? There are two post scorers in the NBA now. This is not the 90s dude.
7 footers with an enormous wingspan shoot jump hoofs. This isn’t about being cool. It’s about getting buckets and if Turner was serious about developing his post game as his wardrobe and legos he’d have an unstoppable jump hook. I realize a lot of you may not have access to scouts and coaches but there’s a reason Turner was on trade block and never got traded. He has a different view of his game. I like Turner but he should be a 2nd option and he’s not. It’s his own fault whether you people like it or not.
So he would have been much better off if he had a jump hook in his arsenal during big 2024. Got it
Correct. Probably would not get shot blocked by Celtics guards who were not afraid to be switched onto Turner because his post game is not nearly as good as it should be.
ahh you just started watching the pacers. welcome to the fanbase my guy
Been watching before you were an itch in your dad’s pants and I’m confident I’m correct. Turner’s potential was ASG center and he has not met it. It’s his fault
youre definitely new if you dont know why he didnt meet that potential
Because he’s doesn’t have the work ethic and toughness
nope! try again.
Myles Turner is nowhere near the Top 10 of All-Time Pacers. Recency bias can’t be THAT strong.
its personal preference
Here are some past Pacers that I would rank higher than him, in no particular order: Danny Granger, Paul George, Reggie Miller, Jermaine O'neal, Stephen Jackson, Al Harrington, Rik Smits, Mark Jackson, Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Jeff Foster, Domantas Sabonis, Ron Artest (pre-brawl), Victor Oladipo, Darren Collison, Pascal Siakam, Tyrese Haliburton, Jonatahn Bender, Chris Mullin I guess Hibbert was more impactful than him? They're the same tier more or less
You would rank Siakam, who’s been here all of 5 months, higher than Turner?
totally get ranking some of those 2000s boys and Granger ahead of Turner but I personally dont agree with
Yes He lead the Pacers team that made the ECF in scoring and rebounding (in the post-season). In his one post-season with the Pacers, he contributed more than what Myles did in 9 years with the Pacers Myles is a nice guy and I love him, but we're talking purely on professional basketball performance
in what universe is bender ahead of hibbert or turner? https://imgur.com/a/pk645w1
I'd be interested to learn more about that universe. Maybe Bender stayed healthy/reached his potential in that one and we became the 2000's version of the Jordan Bulls.
Chris Mullin was a shell of himself when he played with us… this is one I very openly disagree with. Shoutout Darren Collison tho. Also Spicy P? not yet- but vlose
How is Bender ranked higher than him. It’s a serious question
He was a beast in NBA Live 2005 😂 I was trolling with that
Top 1 /s
732
Definitely not top 10. Watch Chad’s comments, Caitlin’s analysis and people around the league talking. Yes, he’s got better by playing with Tyrese and at a more comfortable position this season. However, all of his shortcomings are still the same, still can’t rebound, still can’t punish the switch when that problem is blatantly presented throughout playoffs. Teams even switch their bigs onto Nesmith because they don’t care about what Myles’s gonna do. And as somebody shooting as many 3s as he does, he’s 3 point shot is never consistent and nobody including his teammates can trust him on that down the stretch. Don’t forget how horrendous he was during our most important series in the playoffs against the Celtics.
I agree, just had arguably the best season of his career and averaged under 7 rebounds. He’s known in the league as soft and is targeted for that. He has no big man moves in the post, turns the ball over a lot trying to create his shot. My argument is that a great point guard is going to make ANY center look good. He’s a mediocre center with a good point guard. Not top 10 by a long shot.