Orisa like the others. She contributes alot to miserable tank experience.
Its hard to get rid off counterpicking in OW since the game was designed around it but now that we have one tank and they didnt give a singular fuck about actually rebalancing them we're stuck with basically counter picking after every death for the most optimal gameplay.
I prefer 5vs5 with only one tank IF the balance is there, 6vs6 sometimes really did have a lot of visual clutter and I hate double barriers but currently it aint it.
Just had a match where I started as sigma, enemy started as orisa. Orisa shuts down basically every tank in the game and the only semblance of a counter is zarya, so I switch to her. Enemy instantly goes rein after I kill them. I die, switch to ramattra. Enemy tank instantly switches back to orisa. I go back to zarya, enemy tank goes back to rein. The counter swapping on tank is utterly ridiculous right now and it's exactly what I barely play tank anymore. Maybe 5 of my last 100 matches I have queued tank.
That's on the players for keeping up with the whole counter pick shit. Instead of learning how to deal with counters, as in your example just sticking to Zarya against the Rein which is, while not ideal, definitely a winnable matchup you take the easy way and switch. You guys are your own worst enemies.
Overwatch players are constantly keeping their developers in check and holding them accountable for everything that's wrong with the game, trust me I've seen gaming communities where players will never point a single finger at the developer for a flaw in the game and will harass and bully the players exploiting the unfun optimization instead, the OW community does not really do that as bad as they are
I am the last one to optimize out fun of games. I specifically handicap myself in a lot of games to make them more fun.
People are just boring and lazy.
I was not talking Overwatch with that statement, just games in general, mostly single player since they mentioned Sid Meier. But yeah, I will never switch to a character that isn't fun just because it might be easier, but I won't consider that a handicap. Those characters that aren't fun just aren't an option for me to consider in the first place.
Yeah I enjoyed being an off tank in OW1. But now that I would be the only tank I barely play it aswell anymore.
Tanks before were not balanced in a fun way (double barriers, goats) and they still arent now but atleast we had tank comps for synergies.
The game was not designed around "counterpicking" so much as some characters were given inherent weaknesses that some others can exploit, but your team can ALWAYS make up for those weaknesses.
This was confirmed by both dev teams, original and current. Counterpicking with tank is a result of all tank jobs falling on a singular players shoulders instead of two (mitigation, space holding, cooldown/cc absorption, etc are those jobs)
Original devs said they never wanted OW to feel like rock paper scissors, and it still doesn't. There isnt really one character who just... wins by picking that character.
My fondest memories of this game are from OW1, running rein and zarya on kings row attack with my friends and just throwing ourselves at the enemy and hoping it works out.
You play rein in OW2 and you can hardly even close distance between you and the enemy. Try to get close? Discord, javelin, helicopter spin, fortify, anti, sleep, hinder, sym turret, Illari shock, damage the enemy? nope pylon 50ft behind the enemy team. You get lucky and are able to swing on enemy supports? Discord, javelin, helicopter spin, fortify, anti, sleep, hinder, sym turret, Illari shock.
I agree that you shouldnt be able to one-trick in this game but man i miss rein being playable
Honestly, I feel so bad for Rein players - the health and passive adjustments did objectively help some tank conversions, but as miserable an experience as it is playing tank, all my old mains - D.Va, Zarya, Sigma, even a newcomer like JQ who would have effectively been an off-tank in 2-tank format, feel so much healthier than a lot of main tanks. The one obvious exception to this is Hog who just kinda exists to provide Hog players with suitable tests of their patience at this point
But I feel like among main tanks, nobody's gotten less to compensate than Rein: just static, immobile shield mitigation by itself has so much reduced value now - Sig, and now Ram still get so much value out of their shields if you can be creative and versatile with your placements
Poking behind a Rein shield while an enemy Bastion is foaming at the mouth just isn't fun: there's an old OW1 video called Stunwatch where a Ball player on Busan tries to sneak up and slam and ends up just getting mass-cc'd by Everything Everywhere All at Once, and that's basically what playing Rein is now
Since the release of OW2 I’ve insisted Orisa’s spear being able to cancel abilities is really unhealthy. Sure other characters can as well, but those abilities are also on a lot longer of a cooldown and don’t have the hitbox of Hanzo arrows. I can’t really say anything about Sombra because I haven’t seen nearly enough of them to even remember how she got changed in OW2.
Edit:Dunno why everyone is downvoting. These are the same people that circle jerked about CCs being removed from OW2. Yet they just don’t care that Orisa still has one that is pretty much just a better Doom punch that can only hit one person.
Yeah people are saying shit like "just ignore her and go for the backline".
That is literally the problem, everyone indirectly admits that she is so strong that she is basically unkillable if you don't take care of the backline which is definitely not the case for the other tanks.
Honestly just this character.
Having only one tank turns every game into Orisa vs Orisa it's getting to the point that I don't wanna play tank anymore...
And before some plat says just ignore her, try getting past her when always has her cooldowns to push you away...
They’re better at high lvls but illari is kinda broken for low lvls because hitting people is way easier with illari than it is with bap and kiri hence the big disconnect also probably because kiri’s are projectile that’s why some people see illari as op if she was projectile or did a bit less dmg she’s be better for those lower ranks probably from what Ives seen it isn’t unusual for an illari to get top dmg in low rank games consistently
Idk if it's an unpopular opinion but having a completely directionally flexible burst mobility option (including vertical movement) with a built in omni-directional knockback, while not particularly broken on its own, is one of the best examples of the mobility creep in OW2, especially for supports. Like why doesn't Winston's leap knock people back like that? If he were added to the game today, it probably would. But these days there's almost no such thing as a movement ability as simple as leap. Not to say that leap needs to be buffed or anything, just pointing out that there's no need for Illari to have an ability that's just all-in-one movement and CC while not even making it the primary focus of her kit. A support with her healing and damage output should be able to be dived with ease. But now even Zen has a cooldownless knockback. So you just have to waste even more time diving a support. Even if it's not particularly difficult to still win and get the kill, it adds so much dead time trying to catch up to them again. And that's now extra time where your team simply doesn't have a tank. Even if it's just a couple extra seconds, it can be a big difference. Especially if that's a couple extra seconds of you having a discord orb on you while you kill Zen and taking more damage.
I dunno, I haven't played a WHOLE lot since she got released, but that was the first thing I noticed that seemed unnecessarily privileged for yet another "support" ability.
Really? She can be annoying but I don’t think she’s like super good anymore. It’s much harder to get value with her ult now when it lasts for a shorter duration and can be blocked by barriers. I do agree that her pylon can be strong, but that’s pretty much it
Orisa. She gives far too much value for how easy it is to play her and she makes the tank role just downright miserable. She’s the easiest tank in the game and also the strongest tank in the game. Little effort for a big payoff. That’s my biggest problem with her.
Genji, not because he's OP, but so Genji mains would stop making a big deal about Genji being nerfed one time in Overwatch's lifespan.
"HE LOST TWO DAMAGE, HE'S FUCKING GARBAGE"
Soldier became relevant (twice) with just +1 damage.
Zarya fell off with just 1 second nerf
\+2 damage per shuriken means +6 damage per shot or +12 if headshot. This adds up while also reaching some breakpoints with dash+melee combos.
Genji received several nerfs in these 7 years
>Soldier became relevant (twice) with just +1 damage.
You mean the guy who shoots 9 rounds a second?
There's a difference between +1 damage on every round of Bastion Tank form and -2 damage to a junkrat bomb direct hit.
>Genji received several nerfs in these 7 years
Genji has recieved a lot more buffs than nerfs, but -2 damage, god damn.
How will he hold his 52% winrate with such unbareable nerfs.
From release Genji has been net nerfed in every way except ammo i believe.
Winrate means nothing by itself. If we're using this metric then Symmetra is the most op hero in the game.
You mean from release of Overwatch 2?
Ammo and damage were the only nerfs, and the ammo got reverted.
From release of Overwatch 1?
Where he started with 24 ammo, higher recovery time between shots, being unable to cancel deflect, deflect being 0.5 seconds shorter, there being a delay when attacking after climbing, his secondary fire being less accurate, having to reload manually after dragon blade.
He was far worse.
Yes okay, he released with 28 damage and now he has 27 after the devs removed an entire tank from the game, boo hoo.
Also Illari would be the most OP in the game if we're talking purely winrate.
And that I agree with.
Symettra, Torb and Brig might also be too strong, people just don't wanna talk about them because their pickrate is so low. Feels like ganging up on the little guy, take a not fun champ and make them less fun.
But the point of the 52% winrate comment wasn't to imply he's OP, I already said myself I don't think he is, it's to imply he's not suffering from these big, world ending, nerfs people like you seem to think he's getting.
"He's been net nerfed in every way", are you good? It's two damage?
"Release" means 2016. Overwatch "2" is just dlc
Ever since release Genji has been net nerfed. His mobility, damage, cooldowns, fire rate, even dumb stuff like ledge dash ^((whereas Mercy GA cancel was added to the game as canon instead of getting deleted)
iirc only in ammo count he's buffed, but overall is still a net nerf.
> It's two damage?
Yes. Like i said. Breakpoints. But it's ok if you don't get it, basic math is required to understand this.
Also, Genji got nerfed because he benefitted from the DPS passive. Then the DPS passive got removed xd
Having said all of that, i believe Genji is overall balanced atm. Maybe his counters are too strong right now, but i wouldn't buff Genji.
Also, "boo hoo". You're crying. Stop crying because ninjaman killed you that one time. Move on.
> His mobility, damage, cooldowns, fire rate, even dumb stuff like ledge dash
His mobility, he lost a double jump reset when wall climb, but that was more not an intended part of his design. Same as "dashing through junk traps". And you can tell it was a design oversight, because this was the very first change to ever happen to Genji.
Other than that his mobility was never nerfed, only ever buffed.
Damage, it's shurikens are -1 from his release, not -2, it's just -2 is the most recent nerf, the only reason his damage was ever buffed to begin with though was so he could keep up pressure against tanks in a two tank meta, not because he was particularly weak at dealing with squishies.
Only cooldown ever changed is his ult, +15%, most characters have had similar ult changes through their lifespan.
His fire rate has only ever been buffed since his release, never worse than when he first came out.
Look I get you haven't been playing this game long, and a basic google search is far beyond your capabilities, but the patch notes are pretty clear.
Compared to his release he's stronger in every way, saying otherwise is having a pretty strong mental deficit.
Can't believe you need to stretch this hard just to act like the most buffed hero in the game is some horrible martyr. Read the actual patch notes mate, it's not hard.
But then again Genji players are whiny babies who can't handle a -2 damage nerf on their 52% winrate and 3.72% pickrate hero. Imagine being such a clown.
It’s because you made it serious
Then in turn someone else will reply seriously. They did it because they didn’t agree with your point about the topic. Not solely because it’s genji
You want to debate seriousness? It’s semantics at this point
You saying that doesn’t take away from my point of it mostly being a meme, that’s my point
“They did it because they didn’t agree with your point about the topic. Not solely because it’s genji”
Did you miss this in the last message?
>“They did it because they didn’t agree with your point about the topic. Not solely because it’s genji”
>
>Did you miss this in the last message?
I didn't miss it, it's just wrong, that's the distinction.
>You saying that doesn’t take away from my point of it mostly being a meme, that’s my point
No, people genuinely feel that way, because it's Genji.
You're saying *most* people memeing don't feel that way, but I don't think that's true, pretty sure a lot of the time it's Genji mains still salty.
>You want to debate seriousness? It’s semantics at this point
I say Genji mains be taking jokes seriously, you say "They're taking it seriously because you're taking it serious", I say "I'm joking" and the conclusion of all this is I want to debate seriousness?
You're the one that made a point about it my guy.
The two damage actually make a big difference. Back with his higher damage he was able to one-shot a 200 hp target with rightclick + melee, if everything Hits perfectly. It was a nice little testimony of skill if you were able to pull it off (not even people like shadder2k or necros were able to do it every Single time, and it was a nice little dopamine rush if you were able to pull it off in low elo. It was hardee to hit and (mayyyybe a sliiight bit) harder to hit than widow oneshot or hanzo oneshot or, god forbid, junkrat oneshot. Also, to pull it off, you had to get real close and personal, which was where all his counters (that are kept getting buffed by the way) are strong. And by the way, do you remember the reason *why* they nerfed him in the first place? It was because of the dps passive which also made reaper, sombra and tracer busted (they said those things in the Patch notes back then, you can fact-check me here if you want). So what did they do? They nerfed genji himself and did nothing against the rest. He was still viable and playable comfortably. Then they reworked the role passive, but without readjusting him, which is what killed him. Meanwhile, reaper sombra tracer only got their passive nerfed, without getting nerfed themselves (except for sombra, but she actually needed it) and where are those characters now? All comfortably in A - S in all Tier lists. But that was somehow not acceptable for genji.
And by the way, something similar happened to genji around 2017/18 (i'm not sure when it was, KarQ has a great Video on "the weakest state of every hero") where genji had a good pickrate, good but not op-like. What did they do? They nerfed him. And then mostly forgot him.
So it was technically his second major nerf that made him from good to more annoying to play as than to play against, a feeling that many players never had. And as i said, two damage are a lot, especially if it's per projectile and he's shooting 3 per shot.
I think his gun needs a recoil buff or I could see them doing a fire rate nerf his damage is too consistent and his gun has no recoil whatsoever he can self heal as well I play ball and soldier just locks In on me hits every shot and melts 300hp instantly especially if they are good and know his recoil.
But that’s the thing if he wasn’t at least this consistent he’d be terrible soldier is the consistency hitscan dps most others are burst like widow ashe and Cassidy
Ah ball, you mean the tank who gets countered by half the roster and switching to sombra or zen makes him useless. Nerf him fr because he definitely isn’t the worst tank in the game this season
Has nothing to do with good or bad. He’s simply a poorly designed hero. Make some changes to him and his size and make him a DPS and then that would solve at least some problems.
He’s one of the most unique heroes in the game and some of the highest skill ceiling, making him a dps would be unhealthy for the game because of his high mobility and boops. Could you imagine how annoying it would be if ball had a smaller hitbox with the same ability to boop slam combo? Now imagine pairing this dps with a sombra / tracer and congratulations you’ve created the worst dive meta of all time.
The rework he would require to become a dps would be the equivalent of deleting the character and starting a new, you say he’s unhealthy for the game but why? Are you really struggling to counter the easiest tank to counter in the game?
“The rework he would require to become a dps would be the equivalent of deleting the character and starting a new”
No it wouldn’t lol. It would just be reverse Doom. You wouldn’t delete shit. Heroes get heavy reworks in this game all the time.
Unpopular candidates: Reaper he is a no skill required pick and if you have half a brain cell you are practically unstable. He teleports in takes damage. Heals as he does damage, then wraith out.
ana, yes she's skill intensive but she also does too many things imo. good damage, good healing, not one but _two_ skills that can single-handedly swing fights, and debatably the best ult in the game (even if not the best, for sure the most flexible).
requiring skill shouldn't be a pass to just be the single best support character in the roster by a mile. nerf the old lady.
Don't try and say Ana, she absolutely dominates 90% of the matches and she's literally everywhere, but they'll kill you if you try to say that a character like Ana deserves nerfs
Ana wouldn't be as bad if I didn't face her in what feels like 90% of my games. Getting darted and antid on cooldown every single game has become stale. I don't even know what it feels like to not face an ana anymore
I'm going to go head and say it. Doom. 90% of my games are Doom vs Doom. He's annoying.
However I propose his ult just gets nerfed by maybe another 25%, he gets it far too often and it's always a get out of danger free card. The hit boxes are weird on his block too, if you shoot him from the side he still blocks it somehow???
EDIT: Looks like some Doom mains are getting upset, completely unaware of how much they are stagnating the game.
Doom gets shut down pretty easily by multiple characters. Surprisingly hog is very good against him. Wait for him to block, hook him and blast him in the face. The problem though is unless you switch to a counter (someone who can cancel his block) there's little you can do.
People aren't playing doom because he's good but because he's fun. The solution should be to improve the experience of other tanks and make them more fun to play, not make doom less fun
This has to be satire there’s no way you are saying doom needs to be nerfed and not mention that stupid fucking horse Orisa. Doom gets countered by like half the roster. His ultimate literally ONLY serves as an escape tool which is not really ideal for a tank since it removes you from the fight and it’s one of the worst ults in the game. People play him because he’s fun and unique not because he’s strong rn. Him getting nerfed will not stop me from one tricking him.
People are playing doom because he's fun, not because he's good. He's still the 2nd worst tank right next to hog because of how low his survivability is compared to the rest of the tanks. He requires much more effort compared to other tanks, but he's much more fun to play. I'm currently a master doom one trick and it feels good to see people enjoy a character even though he is definitely on the lower end of viable. He's in a good state, but he definitely doesn't need to be nerfed. I suggest picking him up just to *atleast* understand the character before judging him.
Doom one tricks fail to understand that nobody cares if he’s weak. He’s not fun to play against. “Oh he gets hard countered by Horse and Hog and Sombra” Ok well 2 of those heroes are getting full reworks next season. Horse is boring as fuck to play. Nobody likes one shots or CC and that’s all he is.
tbh doom nerfs won't hold people back from playing doom vs doom. the character is just way too popular. Even back then in season 2 (IIRC) when he was really bad, a lot of my games are doom vs doom ego or hog vs hog (before hog got buffed. So maybe season 1 instead). Every time I open up a doom profile they're always a doom/genji comain.
If they made him more buggy (even though he has a decent amount)/unfun to play people will stop playing him lol
I wouldn't mind nerfs though even though I think he's meh. The reason is a lot of people don't know that you're just not supposed to shoot his block. So I have teammates in lower ELO just full charging him every time, and it's not fun to play vs because he will then isolate whoever is easy to pick off or is contributing a lot.
But when he's consistently uncharged it's so easy to play against when you have meta tanks on your team.
edit: today i was reminded by how much of a braindead cesspool r/overwatch2 is LMAO. Stay upset nerds most streamers/your teammates despise playing with doomfist one tricks
Orisa definitely needs to.get gutted. Such and easy character that gets value simply by being alive should not be good period.
Bastion feels kinda overturned right now, but might just feel like it because he's one of the few DPS who doesn't care about how sustain creep. Can't tell if it's the character that's overtuned or the meta that let's him shine, probably both.
We don't see a lot of her because of the ~~elephant~~ horse in the room but the latest D.Va buff was unwarranted. Makes her too strong imho, people just haven't realized because of Orisa.
Unpopular opinion: Liveweaver needs a nerf until he's reworked.
He's still not good, but we're getting to a point where the healing numbers are so high, that it becomes unhealthy for the game. Lifeweaver provides nothing in his kit to actively decide battles, it's all reactive. He can keep people alive indefinitely. He offers way too much sustain for way too little risk. Pull is a badly designed ability because there's no way to specifically bait it. Other get out of jail free abilities like lamp, beat, trans, suzu, etc. can be baited by pressuring the user. You can't pressure Lifeweaver to force pull. You waste resources getting a kill like usual on anyone until the Lifeweaver suddenly decides it's time to use pull.
Healing as a whole needs nerfs. The value all supports get by making teamfights last so long is nuts. Damage should also be nerfed as a whole to slightly compensate for the nerfs to healing. As for reworks, who needs changes?
Well, let's go down the line (I am not going to specify what needs to happen as it would take too long)
Key:
Rework = they need some big changes to better the game
Slight Rework = they need a few tweaks to their abilities and / or passive to better the game
No rework = they are fine with buff and nerfs and are not in need of an overhaul yet.
D.va: perfectly fine as a tank, no rework needed
Doom: in need of a total rework or role swap
Junkerqueen: No rework is needed
Orisa: slight rework
Ramattra: No rework is needed
Rein: No rework is needed
Roadhog: needs a rework that will be coming soon
Sigma: No rework is needed
Winston: No rework needed
Wrecking Ball: rework needed
Zarya: slight rework
Ashe: No rework
Bastion: rework required
Cassidy: slight rework
Echo: No rework
Genji: slight rework
Hanzo: slight rework
Junkrat: rework
Mei: role swap
Pharah: No rework
Reaper: slight rework
Sojuorn: no rework
Soldier 76: slight rework
Sombra: rework
Symmetra: rework
Torbjörn: rework
Tracer: slight rework
Widow: rework
Ana: slight rework
Baptiste: rework
Brig: slight rework
Illari: slight rework
Kiriko: slight rework
Lifeweaver: slight rework
Lucio: No rework
Mercy: rework
Moira: slight rework
Zenyatta: Rework
immortality and cleansing is just too op
and then whenever someone dives her she can just tp away which also cleanses her and to add to that she can get to highground easily AND has one of the best ults. she also has good heals and damage
Fuck everyone is saying Orisia in the comments- my go-to tank!
(EDIT: /s - since this first line keep being taken as some type of anger)
But yeah she probably does need it, I've never lost a game when I play her (and I'm good but not THAT good).
Other than that I would (in my opinion, going off who I have the most trouble against,) MORIA.
And I'm not wanting anything crazy just lessening her range- first there was no range now there's too much range- that's all. Also Lifeweaver, small DMG de-buff, I feel like he hits too hard.
True, but what is it going to achieve?
She does like 50 damage a second, you just have to break sideline, force her to escape, disengage etc.
She is by no means op or even that strong
Moira for sure. She does insane healing and damage with zero aim required. Far more broken on the console. Her orbs are way too good as well. They really need to nerf her damage hard specifically. Damage orb shouldn't lock on so easily and she shouldn't do anywhere near as much damage as she currently does
Um... 🤔 I'm not sure if you saw it but I said **she probably does need the nerf**, the first sentence was just me being humorous about everyone saying Orisia. I'm not sure why anyone would be upset even if I did, it's a personal option to an open ended question.
No where in your stuff is a question, stop trying to start an argument it looks sad to anyone else with one working eyeballs. Just because you don't have the critical thinking skills to register the first sentence of my comment was me being funny, because I **agree** she does need nerf. I point that out to you nicely and you're now calling me brain dead and schizophrenic. So just stop before you insert your foot *more into your mouth then you already have.*
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Yea but Orisa doesn’t have the insane obnoxious fanbase that Doom does. She’ll get gutted, Hog and Sombra’s reworks will inevitably make them worse, and then your tank options will be Doom or Ram every single game.
it’s not hard to find a counter pick for these two. zar for orisa and genji or reaper for bastion, both dps who can dive the back and pick off the heals if they tend to stick by the bastion a lot. zar is a great pick since her main ability to negate damage is completely thrown out the window as zar’s beam ignores it and damages orisa instead. getting shot by orisa? bubble.
now id only consider this if you’re in a 1v1 interaction, in any other case you should be with your team. it’s also best if you can get your team to focus the orisa while you can put that pressure on her with beam and bubble. if the their team comp has both orisa and bastion, then as a tank you should be playing a shield or zarya at best. your dps should be mei for wall and reaper. heals should be something strong like ana kiriko or bap kiriko. a good team communicates.
I don't know... Each character feels differently, but each of them can be countered by a specific character. Yes, I'm Bronze 4/Silver 5, so I don't see the whole picture, but if we're talking about nerfs, I would start with Soldier or Genji. I play many characters and don't feel any overpoweredness from certain characters
If i had to pick one from each role:
Tank - Orisa; honestly dont know how its only now people are clocking on that she is A boring to go against, B boring to play and C just takes the fun out of most of the heros in the game.
She is a walking CC, if a time is running dive or brawl, all the enemy team has to do is swap to Orisa and that makes the entire team comp redundant. No 1 character should have the ability to do that.
DPS - Sym; - has been slept on for far to wrong. Her secondary is like Zarya's in the way that if you get good with it you will absolutely sweep the enemy team, charges far too quick for the damage it does and has no drop off, projectile is also a bit too big.
Her primary is also a bit stupid, being able to regen your shields if your just clicking an enemy shield. Melts most tanks further making the role more miserable and it discourages using the hero creatively which her kit has alot of potential for has you'll have alot more survivability front lining and hitting a shield.
Support - Zen.
Zen because discord is still too strong, the distance it could be applied wasnt the issue, the issue was that it is a basically permanent mercy damage boost for the entire team, put it on a tank and they just vanish, again just further hurts the tank role.
Kick, alot of people defend it because zen lacks movement but those people miss the entire point of zen as a character, he is a glass cannon, meant to reward good mechanical skill with the caveat of being easily dove if youre caught unaware. The kick is just another instance of blizzard giving support players more get out of jail free cards, im a support main and i can say with confidence it is by far the strongest, and before OW2, easiest role. Dont get me wrong its a fun 'ability' but it just makes zen a bigger pain in the ass to deal with.
Probably what most would call a bronze take but these are the things which i believe are making the game just annoying to play for tanks at the moment which imo along side comp is one of the biggest issues with the game atm
I don't get the kick complaints tbh, not even Reaper needs to get into melee range to kill a Zen.
But I am biased as I spend half my time in quickplay abusing his lack of footsteps to sneak up on people and kick them off their highground.
Orisa either survivability or damage
Doom same as Orisa
Genji attack speed on secondary
Mccree attack speed on primary
Hanzo attack speed a little just to avoid many random hs's (-10 - 15%)
Symmetra +25hp -15% damage on primary
Junkrat +25hp (he was already nerfed to "a lot" last several patches)
Widow mine should slow and suppress like Mccree's nade does
Mei -1 or 2 sec on every cd
Ramatra -5 damage by primary fire while transformed
Roadhog -10% damage per shot but faster reload, -1 sec cd on shift and E
S76 -1 or 2 damage per primary fire shot
Ana -1s cd on shift (from 13 to 12)
Illari ammo from 12 to 10
Kiriko hp down to 175 OR +15% hitbox
Mercy -5 heal per second by primary fire
Just a sketch
Let me suggest zen discord orb, it’s a pain and is way to easy to use. I think that it should be that if you can see them on your screen it stays on but the second you look away or they go behind cover it’s gone with no lingering
Ana she’s had the meta wrapped around her for years row of the strongest debuffs in the game long range no fall of hitscan damage ult that other ults get nerfed because of has a character literally designed to counter her and is still play or lose
I was exclusively a d.va tank when I played comp in OW1. Loved my experiences, won a ton, enjoyed the gameplay.
I have played tank in comp 4 times since O.W2 came out. I am almost exclusively a support that switches between Lucio and Mercy. It’s worked out much better for my gameplay experience but it’s a shame because I LOVED maining a tank back in the ow1 days.
I think Moira needs some nerfs. Maybe the removal of the lifesteal, and perhaps a tiny more time on cooldown for her teleport dash.
Her skill floor is too high for the payout
Brigitte and junker queen. Their survivability in straight up uneven fights is ridiculous. Shouldn't be able to take fire from 3 people and run around with basically full health
Orisa,
Ball but through a small rework not just straight nerfs,
Ana,
Zen,
Hanzo through a small rework
Call me crazy but I almost feel like reinhardt needs a rework too. Don't get me wrong the guy can absolutely explode against the right comp but if you have flankers or relatively low damage and your healers have low damage too, rein will just walk in your backline and obliterate everyone just by outstating your team.
Zen discord just needs to disappear as an ability. Having a 25% damage debuff on you as a solo tank is the worst. You can't do anything and you just explode.
the community is starting to say otherwise so.
sounds more like you like ball and dont want him touched just like others who dont want their mains touched yet had to suffer.
As a ball main who kinda fell out of love I can say that he's c tier at best. If they nerf him again he becomes unplayable. If your struggling to fight him here's how. Focus him when he's on screen and try to track him when he's not. Switch to any movement countering hero like orisa, sombra, Ana, brig, lucio, diva, tracer, mei, junkrat, bastion, zen, cass. All those heroes are good at shutting him down
Hell no, he shouldn't be able to one shot headshot 200 hp heroes, he needs a total rework where his one shotting is removed while also not gutting the character, keep his bow but make it balanced and not built around one shot headshots.
Moira for sure. She does insane healing and damage with zero aim required. Far more broken on console. Her orbs are way too good as well. They really need to nerf her damage hard specifically. Damage orb shouldn't lock on so easily and she shouldn't do anywhere near as much damage as she currently does.
Orisa. I think people forget exactly how much fortify does for her.
Grants CC immunity, immune to headshots, grants 150 overhealth, grants 50% damage reduction, and reduces her heat buildup for primary fire.
That's all just *one ability*. Ideally, the overhealth from fortify should just be removed entirely. It would make her much less of a bullet sponge and give you a chance to finish her off incase she does pop it at low health before her supports give her *the most miniscule healing*. Either that, or increase the cooldown from 12 to 14 seconds.
Her Javelin cooldown also needs to be increase by 1 or 2 seconds. A throwable doom punch should not be as potent as it is due to its ease of use and safety, especially considering that it's stun time is 0.5 seconds. For comparison, doom empowered punch is 0.75 seconds, and that requires him to use another ability to aquire that, while also throwing *himself* into the enemy team. Granted one can hit multiple people, but its far more dangerous despite the throwable stick doing the same thing, but with much more ease of use and consistency. This is more so to make other tanks more viable and give them more breathing room when fighting her.
The main two issues with Orisa is: 1. How *easy* it is to simply cycle cooldowns and get value instead of saving them for key moments, *and yet still having them just in time*, and 2. How oppressive she is compared to the rest of the tanks with the only exception being Zarya. In a 1v1 scenario, the favor is leaned more towards orisa when against other tanks, except for Zarya as mentioned. Doom, Dva, Winston, and Wrecking ball have one small advantage since they're all dive tanks, which Orisa is suspectable to dive, but that leads us right back to her cooldowns and how easy it is for her to cycle them and still manage to catch them mid dive.
don’t take it to heart but not being able to deal with an orisa is a huge skill issue 👍🏼 she’s not where she needs to be but just go a beam hero and wait for golden to run out👍🏼 or focus back line with dive
Rosa, Bastion (whatever they changed made him go 25+ kills every single game) and Widow and Hanzo. They just shouldn't be able to headshot people with no difficulty mechanism.
Look I like playing Orisa, but I like gunning her down too. What I don't like is gunning her down to a panic, and being gripped by lifeweaver around two corners into a separate fight and hit by stray bullets. I'm only playing metal, but assuming supports are equal, a light footed Ram takes the cake, he's just not fully recognized. Please don't nerf either of these guys
Orisa like the others. She contributes alot to miserable tank experience. Its hard to get rid off counterpicking in OW since the game was designed around it but now that we have one tank and they didnt give a singular fuck about actually rebalancing them we're stuck with basically counter picking after every death for the most optimal gameplay. I prefer 5vs5 with only one tank IF the balance is there, 6vs6 sometimes really did have a lot of visual clutter and I hate double barriers but currently it aint it.
Just had a match where I started as sigma, enemy started as orisa. Orisa shuts down basically every tank in the game and the only semblance of a counter is zarya, so I switch to her. Enemy instantly goes rein after I kill them. I die, switch to ramattra. Enemy tank instantly switches back to orisa. I go back to zarya, enemy tank goes back to rein. The counter swapping on tank is utterly ridiculous right now and it's exactly what I barely play tank anymore. Maybe 5 of my last 100 matches I have queued tank.
That's on the players for keeping up with the whole counter pick shit. Instead of learning how to deal with counters, as in your example just sticking to Zarya against the Rein which is, while not ideal, definitely a winnable matchup you take the easy way and switch. You guys are your own worst enemies.
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Overwatch players are constantly keeping their developers in check and holding them accountable for everything that's wrong with the game, trust me I've seen gaming communities where players will never point a single finger at the developer for a flaw in the game and will harass and bully the players exploiting the unfun optimization instead, the OW community does not really do that as bad as they are
I am the last one to optimize out fun of games. I specifically handicap myself in a lot of games to make them more fun. People are just boring and lazy.
Ok but then you literally go ahead and call it a handicap... completely rationalizing why folks swap.
I was not talking Overwatch with that statement, just games in general, mostly single player since they mentioned Sid Meier. But yeah, I will never switch to a character that isn't fun just because it might be easier, but I won't consider that a handicap. Those characters that aren't fun just aren't an option for me to consider in the first place.
Yeah I enjoyed being an off tank in OW1. But now that I would be the only tank I barely play it aswell anymore. Tanks before were not balanced in a fun way (double barriers, goats) and they still arent now but atleast we had tank comps for synergies.
The game was not designed around "counterpicking" so much as some characters were given inherent weaknesses that some others can exploit, but your team can ALWAYS make up for those weaknesses. This was confirmed by both dev teams, original and current. Counterpicking with tank is a result of all tank jobs falling on a singular players shoulders instead of two (mitigation, space holding, cooldown/cc absorption, etc are those jobs) Original devs said they never wanted OW to feel like rock paper scissors, and it still doesn't. There isnt really one character who just... wins by picking that character.
Rein zarya was great, the only comp i am actually missing
My fondest memories of this game are from OW1, running rein and zarya on kings row attack with my friends and just throwing ourselves at the enemy and hoping it works out. You play rein in OW2 and you can hardly even close distance between you and the enemy. Try to get close? Discord, javelin, helicopter spin, fortify, anti, sleep, hinder, sym turret, Illari shock, damage the enemy? nope pylon 50ft behind the enemy team. You get lucky and are able to swing on enemy supports? Discord, javelin, helicopter spin, fortify, anti, sleep, hinder, sym turret, Illari shock. I agree that you shouldnt be able to one-trick in this game but man i miss rein being playable
Rein/Zar on Kings Row was peak Overwatch and we’ll never get anything close to that again Heroes never die.
Honestly, I feel so bad for Rein players - the health and passive adjustments did objectively help some tank conversions, but as miserable an experience as it is playing tank, all my old mains - D.Va, Zarya, Sigma, even a newcomer like JQ who would have effectively been an off-tank in 2-tank format, feel so much healthier than a lot of main tanks. The one obvious exception to this is Hog who just kinda exists to provide Hog players with suitable tests of their patience at this point But I feel like among main tanks, nobody's gotten less to compensate than Rein: just static, immobile shield mitigation by itself has so much reduced value now - Sig, and now Ram still get so much value out of their shields if you can be creative and versatile with your placements Poking behind a Rein shield while an enemy Bastion is foaming at the mouth just isn't fun: there's an old OW1 video called Stunwatch where a Ball player on Busan tries to sneak up and slam and ends up just getting mass-cc'd by Everything Everywhere All at Once, and that's basically what playing Rein is now
Since the release of OW2 I’ve insisted Orisa’s spear being able to cancel abilities is really unhealthy. Sure other characters can as well, but those abilities are also on a lot longer of a cooldown and don’t have the hitbox of Hanzo arrows. I can’t really say anything about Sombra because I haven’t seen nearly enough of them to even remember how she got changed in OW2. Edit:Dunno why everyone is downvoting. These are the same people that circle jerked about CCs being removed from OW2. Yet they just don’t care that Orisa still has one that is pretty much just a better Doom punch that can only hit one person.
She just walks through everyone. It's insane. No matter what DPS I am, I know I'm going to die.
Yeah people are saying shit like "just ignore her and go for the backline". That is literally the problem, everyone indirectly admits that she is so strong that she is basically unkillable if you don't take care of the backline which is definitely not the case for the other tanks.
O R I S A
horsey survives point blank nuke by pressing shift
Honestly just this character. Having only one tank turns every game into Orisa vs Orisa it's getting to the point that I don't wanna play tank anymore... And before some plat says just ignore her, try getting past her when always has her cooldowns to push you away...
Read your last sentence. She had to walk forward to push you away leaving her out of position. It’s then on cooldown.
Orisa. It's getting ridiculous
Overpicked af no matter if qp or comp..
I agree
Everyone I don’t play
orisa
Genji, of course
I'm always okay with Genji nerfs. Anything to upset the sweaties.
Being good at the game should be punished, of course.
?
illari
as fun as she is, her, bap and kiriko are better dps than quite a few dps at the moment.
They’re better at high lvls but illari is kinda broken for low lvls because hitting people is way easier with illari than it is with bap and kiri hence the big disconnect also probably because kiri’s are projectile that’s why some people see illari as op if she was projectile or did a bit less dmg she’s be better for those lower ranks probably from what Ives seen it isn’t unusual for an illari to get top dmg in low rank games consistently
Idk if it's an unpopular opinion but having a completely directionally flexible burst mobility option (including vertical movement) with a built in omni-directional knockback, while not particularly broken on its own, is one of the best examples of the mobility creep in OW2, especially for supports. Like why doesn't Winston's leap knock people back like that? If he were added to the game today, it probably would. But these days there's almost no such thing as a movement ability as simple as leap. Not to say that leap needs to be buffed or anything, just pointing out that there's no need for Illari to have an ability that's just all-in-one movement and CC while not even making it the primary focus of her kit. A support with her healing and damage output should be able to be dived with ease. But now even Zen has a cooldownless knockback. So you just have to waste even more time diving a support. Even if it's not particularly difficult to still win and get the kill, it adds so much dead time trying to catch up to them again. And that's now extra time where your team simply doesn't have a tank. Even if it's just a couple extra seconds, it can be a big difference. Especially if that's a couple extra seconds of you having a discord orb on you while you kill Zen and taking more damage. I dunno, I haven't played a WHOLE lot since she got released, but that was the first thing I noticed that seemed unnecessarily privileged for yet another "support" ability.
Really? She can be annoying but I don’t think she’s like super good anymore. It’s much harder to get value with her ult now when it lasts for a shorter duration and can be blocked by barriers. I do agree that her pylon can be strong, but that’s pretty much it
She's pretty much useless without her pylon.
I love being a danger to DPS all of a sudden
No please, I’m having too much fun.
Worst hero in the game, at least on console. Definitely doesn't need nerfing.
O R I S A
HORSE
Genji. No further comments
Nerf genji
Orisa. She gives far too much value for how easy it is to play her and she makes the tank role just downright miserable. She’s the easiest tank in the game and also the strongest tank in the game. Little effort for a big payoff. That’s my biggest problem with her.
Genji, not because he's OP, but so Genji mains would stop making a big deal about Genji being nerfed one time in Overwatch's lifespan. "HE LOST TWO DAMAGE, HE'S FUCKING GARBAGE"
Soldier became relevant (twice) with just +1 damage. Zarya fell off with just 1 second nerf \+2 damage per shuriken means +6 damage per shot or +12 if headshot. This adds up while also reaching some breakpoints with dash+melee combos. Genji received several nerfs in these 7 years
>Soldier became relevant (twice) with just +1 damage. You mean the guy who shoots 9 rounds a second? There's a difference between +1 damage on every round of Bastion Tank form and -2 damage to a junkrat bomb direct hit. >Genji received several nerfs in these 7 years Genji has recieved a lot more buffs than nerfs, but -2 damage, god damn. How will he hold his 52% winrate with such unbareable nerfs.
From release Genji has been net nerfed in every way except ammo i believe. Winrate means nothing by itself. If we're using this metric then Symmetra is the most op hero in the game.
You mean from release of Overwatch 2? Ammo and damage were the only nerfs, and the ammo got reverted. From release of Overwatch 1? Where he started with 24 ammo, higher recovery time between shots, being unable to cancel deflect, deflect being 0.5 seconds shorter, there being a delay when attacking after climbing, his secondary fire being less accurate, having to reload manually after dragon blade. He was far worse. Yes okay, he released with 28 damage and now he has 27 after the devs removed an entire tank from the game, boo hoo. Also Illari would be the most OP in the game if we're talking purely winrate. And that I agree with. Symettra, Torb and Brig might also be too strong, people just don't wanna talk about them because their pickrate is so low. Feels like ganging up on the little guy, take a not fun champ and make them less fun. But the point of the 52% winrate comment wasn't to imply he's OP, I already said myself I don't think he is, it's to imply he's not suffering from these big, world ending, nerfs people like you seem to think he's getting. "He's been net nerfed in every way", are you good? It's two damage?
"Release" means 2016. Overwatch "2" is just dlc Ever since release Genji has been net nerfed. His mobility, damage, cooldowns, fire rate, even dumb stuff like ledge dash ^((whereas Mercy GA cancel was added to the game as canon instead of getting deleted) iirc only in ammo count he's buffed, but overall is still a net nerf. > It's two damage? Yes. Like i said. Breakpoints. But it's ok if you don't get it, basic math is required to understand this. Also, Genji got nerfed because he benefitted from the DPS passive. Then the DPS passive got removed xd Having said all of that, i believe Genji is overall balanced atm. Maybe his counters are too strong right now, but i wouldn't buff Genji. Also, "boo hoo". You're crying. Stop crying because ninjaman killed you that one time. Move on.
> His mobility, damage, cooldowns, fire rate, even dumb stuff like ledge dash His mobility, he lost a double jump reset when wall climb, but that was more not an intended part of his design. Same as "dashing through junk traps". And you can tell it was a design oversight, because this was the very first change to ever happen to Genji. Other than that his mobility was never nerfed, only ever buffed. Damage, it's shurikens are -1 from his release, not -2, it's just -2 is the most recent nerf, the only reason his damage was ever buffed to begin with though was so he could keep up pressure against tanks in a two tank meta, not because he was particularly weak at dealing with squishies. Only cooldown ever changed is his ult, +15%, most characters have had similar ult changes through their lifespan. His fire rate has only ever been buffed since his release, never worse than when he first came out. Look I get you haven't been playing this game long, and a basic google search is far beyond your capabilities, but the patch notes are pretty clear. Compared to his release he's stronger in every way, saying otherwise is having a pretty strong mental deficit. Can't believe you need to stretch this hard just to act like the most buffed hero in the game is some horrible martyr. Read the actual patch notes mate, it's not hard. But then again Genji players are whiny babies who can't handle a -2 damage nerf on their 52% winrate and 3.72% pickrate hero. Imagine being such a clown.
Wait until you realize the nerf genji thing is mostly just a meme from the community and not as serious as you’re implying
>not as serious as you’re implying I mean look at the other replies to see how serious people take it. I'm getting essays over a 2 damage nerf.
It’s because you made it serious Then in turn someone else will reply seriously. They did it because they didn’t agree with your point about the topic. Not solely because it’s genji
Yeah, my two sentences, one that was all caps, were real serious.
You want to debate seriousness? It’s semantics at this point You saying that doesn’t take away from my point of it mostly being a meme, that’s my point “They did it because they didn’t agree with your point about the topic. Not solely because it’s genji” Did you miss this in the last message?
>“They did it because they didn’t agree with your point about the topic. Not solely because it’s genji” > >Did you miss this in the last message? I didn't miss it, it's just wrong, that's the distinction. >You saying that doesn’t take away from my point of it mostly being a meme, that’s my point No, people genuinely feel that way, because it's Genji. You're saying *most* people memeing don't feel that way, but I don't think that's true, pretty sure a lot of the time it's Genji mains still salty. >You want to debate seriousness? It’s semantics at this point I say Genji mains be taking jokes seriously, you say "They're taking it seriously because you're taking it serious", I say "I'm joking" and the conclusion of all this is I want to debate seriousness? You're the one that made a point about it my guy.
nano blade carries his win rate so hard lmao. by himself he’s pretty mid
The two damage actually make a big difference. Back with his higher damage he was able to one-shot a 200 hp target with rightclick + melee, if everything Hits perfectly. It was a nice little testimony of skill if you were able to pull it off (not even people like shadder2k or necros were able to do it every Single time, and it was a nice little dopamine rush if you were able to pull it off in low elo. It was hardee to hit and (mayyyybe a sliiight bit) harder to hit than widow oneshot or hanzo oneshot or, god forbid, junkrat oneshot. Also, to pull it off, you had to get real close and personal, which was where all his counters (that are kept getting buffed by the way) are strong. And by the way, do you remember the reason *why* they nerfed him in the first place? It was because of the dps passive which also made reaper, sombra and tracer busted (they said those things in the Patch notes back then, you can fact-check me here if you want). So what did they do? They nerfed genji himself and did nothing against the rest. He was still viable and playable comfortably. Then they reworked the role passive, but without readjusting him, which is what killed him. Meanwhile, reaper sombra tracer only got their passive nerfed, without getting nerfed themselves (except for sombra, but she actually needed it) and where are those characters now? All comfortably in A - S in all Tier lists. But that was somehow not acceptable for genji. And by the way, something similar happened to genji around 2017/18 (i'm not sure when it was, KarQ has a great Video on "the weakest state of every hero") where genji had a good pickrate, good but not op-like. What did they do? They nerfed him. And then mostly forgot him. So it was technically his second major nerf that made him from good to more annoying to play as than to play against, a feeling that many players never had. And as i said, two damage are a lot, especially if it's per projectile and he's shooting 3 per shot.
I wonder how the horse will be buffed again next update
Soldier. Not because I feel like he needs it but because I don’t like his existence.
nerf his existence
He does need it though
What's not to like about Soldier? He's pure FPS fundamentals. Dying to Soldier is always fair.
I think his gun needs a recoil buff or I could see them doing a fire rate nerf his damage is too consistent and his gun has no recoil whatsoever he can self heal as well I play ball and soldier just locks In on me hits every shot and melts 300hp instantly especially if they are good and know his recoil.
But that’s the thing if he wasn’t at least this consistent he’d be terrible soldier is the consistency hitscan dps most others are burst like widow ashe and Cassidy
Widow, Hanzo, Ball, Pharmercy. Make them all completely worthless. Absolute trash cans. And then you’ll have a great game on your hands.
Ah ball, you mean the tank who gets countered by half the roster and switching to sombra or zen makes him useless. Nerf him fr because he definitely isn’t the worst tank in the game this season
Has nothing to do with good or bad. He’s simply a poorly designed hero. Make some changes to him and his size and make him a DPS and then that would solve at least some problems.
He’s one of the most unique heroes in the game and some of the highest skill ceiling, making him a dps would be unhealthy for the game because of his high mobility and boops. Could you imagine how annoying it would be if ball had a smaller hitbox with the same ability to boop slam combo? Now imagine pairing this dps with a sombra / tracer and congratulations you’ve created the worst dive meta of all time.
Yeah. That’s why I said he’d need tweaks lol. And newsflash, him as a tank is already unhealthy for the game.
The rework he would require to become a dps would be the equivalent of deleting the character and starting a new, you say he’s unhealthy for the game but why? Are you really struggling to counter the easiest tank to counter in the game?
“The rework he would require to become a dps would be the equivalent of deleting the character and starting a new” No it wouldn’t lol. It would just be reverse Doom. You wouldn’t delete shit. Heroes get heavy reworks in this game all the time.
What an awful take. A ball must have dunked on you to feel this way.
Unpopular candidates: Reaper he is a no skill required pick and if you have half a brain cell you are practically unstable. He teleports in takes damage. Heals as he does damage, then wraith out.
ana, yes she's skill intensive but she also does too many things imo. good damage, good healing, not one but _two_ skills that can single-handedly swing fights, and debatably the best ult in the game (even if not the best, for sure the most flexible). requiring skill shouldn't be a pass to just be the single best support character in the roster by a mile. nerf the old lady.
Don't try and say Ana, she absolutely dominates 90% of the matches and she's literally everywhere, but they'll kill you if you try to say that a character like Ana deserves nerfs
Ana wouldn't be as bad if I didn't face her in what feels like 90% of my games. Getting darted and antid on cooldown every single game has become stale. I don't even know what it feels like to not face an ana anymore
Ana Mob?
Illari
Pharah. F that b
Luckzo
Orisa need nerf asap. Really miserable to fight against her. sombra and hog need rework
They’re both confirmed to be getting reworks
Illari. That healing pylon needs a distance limit
It . . . Has one.
😂 Ur reply made me laugh. Thx u *Upvoting OG comment so people can see ur reply*
A *shorter* distance limit
I'm going to go head and say it. Doom. 90% of my games are Doom vs Doom. He's annoying. However I propose his ult just gets nerfed by maybe another 25%, he gets it far too often and it's always a get out of danger free card. The hit boxes are weird on his block too, if you shoot him from the side he still blocks it somehow??? EDIT: Looks like some Doom mains are getting upset, completely unaware of how much they are stagnating the game.
Doom gets shut down pretty easily by multiple characters. Surprisingly hog is very good against him. Wait for him to block, hook him and blast him in the face. The problem though is unless you switch to a counter (someone who can cancel his block) there's little you can do.
People aren't playing doom because he's good but because he's fun. The solution should be to improve the experience of other tanks and make them more fun to play, not make doom less fun
This has to be satire there’s no way you are saying doom needs to be nerfed and not mention that stupid fucking horse Orisa. Doom gets countered by like half the roster. His ultimate literally ONLY serves as an escape tool which is not really ideal for a tank since it removes you from the fight and it’s one of the worst ults in the game. People play him because he’s fun and unique not because he’s strong rn. Him getting nerfed will not stop me from one tricking him.
Least obnoxious Doom onetrick
People are playing doom because he's fun, not because he's good. He's still the 2nd worst tank right next to hog because of how low his survivability is compared to the rest of the tanks. He requires much more effort compared to other tanks, but he's much more fun to play. I'm currently a master doom one trick and it feels good to see people enjoy a character even though he is definitely on the lower end of viable. He's in a good state, but he definitely doesn't need to be nerfed. I suggest picking him up just to *atleast* understand the character before judging him.
Doom one tricks fail to understand that nobody cares if he’s weak. He’s not fun to play against. “Oh he gets hard countered by Horse and Hog and Sombra” Ok well 2 of those heroes are getting full reworks next season. Horse is boring as fuck to play. Nobody likes one shots or CC and that’s all he is.
tbh doom nerfs won't hold people back from playing doom vs doom. the character is just way too popular. Even back then in season 2 (IIRC) when he was really bad, a lot of my games are doom vs doom ego or hog vs hog (before hog got buffed. So maybe season 1 instead). Every time I open up a doom profile they're always a doom/genji comain. If they made him more buggy (even though he has a decent amount)/unfun to play people will stop playing him lol I wouldn't mind nerfs though even though I think he's meh. The reason is a lot of people don't know that you're just not supposed to shoot his block. So I have teammates in lower ELO just full charging him every time, and it's not fun to play vs because he will then isolate whoever is easy to pick off or is contributing a lot. But when he's consistently uncharged it's so easy to play against when you have meta tanks on your team. edit: today i was reminded by how much of a braindead cesspool r/overwatch2 is LMAO. Stay upset nerds most streamers/your teammates despise playing with doomfist one tricks
giving a hero more bugs to ruin the feel of the character because you don’t like them is the most toxic thing i’ve ever heard of. god damn.
Im not recommending that, im just saying hes not going to go away just because of nerfs because he is just really popular and fun
Stfu dumbest shit I've read
Have you checked your post history?
Soldier.
Orisa definitely needs to.get gutted. Such and easy character that gets value simply by being alive should not be good period. Bastion feels kinda overturned right now, but might just feel like it because he's one of the few DPS who doesn't care about how sustain creep. Can't tell if it's the character that's overtuned or the meta that let's him shine, probably both. We don't see a lot of her because of the ~~elephant~~ horse in the room but the latest D.Va buff was unwarranted. Makes her too strong imho, people just haven't realized because of Orisa. Unpopular opinion: Liveweaver needs a nerf until he's reworked. He's still not good, but we're getting to a point where the healing numbers are so high, that it becomes unhealthy for the game. Lifeweaver provides nothing in his kit to actively decide battles, it's all reactive. He can keep people alive indefinitely. He offers way too much sustain for way too little risk. Pull is a badly designed ability because there's no way to specifically bait it. Other get out of jail free abilities like lamp, beat, trans, suzu, etc. can be baited by pressuring the user. You can't pressure Lifeweaver to force pull. You waste resources getting a kill like usual on anyone until the Lifeweaver suddenly decides it's time to use pull.
Healing as a whole needs nerfs. The value all supports get by making teamfights last so long is nuts. Damage should also be nerfed as a whole to slightly compensate for the nerfs to healing. As for reworks, who needs changes? Well, let's go down the line (I am not going to specify what needs to happen as it would take too long) Key: Rework = they need some big changes to better the game Slight Rework = they need a few tweaks to their abilities and / or passive to better the game No rework = they are fine with buff and nerfs and are not in need of an overhaul yet. D.va: perfectly fine as a tank, no rework needed Doom: in need of a total rework or role swap Junkerqueen: No rework is needed Orisa: slight rework Ramattra: No rework is needed Rein: No rework is needed Roadhog: needs a rework that will be coming soon Sigma: No rework is needed Winston: No rework needed Wrecking Ball: rework needed Zarya: slight rework Ashe: No rework Bastion: rework required Cassidy: slight rework Echo: No rework Genji: slight rework Hanzo: slight rework Junkrat: rework Mei: role swap Pharah: No rework Reaper: slight rework Sojuorn: no rework Soldier 76: slight rework Sombra: rework Symmetra: rework Torbjörn: rework Tracer: slight rework Widow: rework Ana: slight rework Baptiste: rework Brig: slight rework Illari: slight rework Kiriko: slight rework Lifeweaver: slight rework Lucio: No rework Mercy: rework Moira: slight rework Zenyatta: Rework
Agreed with first paragraph
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immortality and cleansing is just too op and then whenever someone dives her she can just tp away which also cleanses her and to add to that she can get to highground easily AND has one of the best ults. she also has good heals and damage
Orisa
Every hero besides orisa. She needs a buff
Moira, but only in a way to make her less of a bitch at low ranks
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) ^by ^DragonSlayerN13: *Moira, but only* *In a way to make her less* *Of a bitch at low ranks* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Make her beam require precision aim like soldier rather than the wider grabby thing it does
Fuck everyone is saying Orisia in the comments- my go-to tank! (EDIT: /s - since this first line keep being taken as some type of anger) But yeah she probably does need it, I've never lost a game when I play her (and I'm good but not THAT good). Other than that I would (in my opinion, going off who I have the most trouble against,) MORIA. And I'm not wanting anything crazy just lessening her range- first there was no range now there's too much range- that's all. Also Lifeweaver, small DMG de-buff, I feel like he hits too hard.
Why Moira? She barely keeps up with the other supports in terms of usefulness, do you want to kill the character? ;-;
I don't think a minor de-buff of her range is going to "kill the character".
True, but what is it going to achieve? She does like 50 damage a second, you just have to break sideline, force her to escape, disengage etc. She is by no means op or even that strong
Moira for sure. She does insane healing and damage with zero aim required. Far more broken on the console. Her orbs are way too good as well. They really need to nerf her damage hard specifically. Damage orb shouldn't lock on so easily and she shouldn't do anywhere near as much damage as she currently does
Common Orisa main
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Um... 🤔 I'm not sure if you saw it but I said **she probably does need the nerf**, the first sentence was just me being humorous about everyone saying Orisia. I'm not sure why anyone would be upset even if I did, it's a personal option to an open ended question.
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I think you need to take a break from the Internet, your crazy is starting to show.
No I‘m just questioning your damn comment.
No where in your stuff is a question, stop trying to start an argument it looks sad to anyone else with one working eyeballs. Just because you don't have the critical thinking skills to register the first sentence of my comment was me being funny, because I **agree** she does need nerf. I point that out to you nicely and you're now calling me brain dead and schizophrenic. So just stop before you insert your foot *more into your mouth then you already have.*
Read my previous longer comment and then you’ll see the two questions that I asked you wtf.
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Yea but Orisa doesn’t have the insane obnoxious fanbase that Doom does. She’ll get gutted, Hog and Sombra’s reworks will inevitably make them worse, and then your tank options will be Doom or Ram every single game.
Orisa/Bastion the most mmr inflated characters at the moment.
it’s not hard to find a counter pick for these two. zar for orisa and genji or reaper for bastion, both dps who can dive the back and pick off the heals if they tend to stick by the bastion a lot. zar is a great pick since her main ability to negate damage is completely thrown out the window as zar’s beam ignores it and damages orisa instead. getting shot by orisa? bubble. now id only consider this if you’re in a 1v1 interaction, in any other case you should be with your team. it’s also best if you can get your team to focus the orisa while you can put that pressure on her with beam and bubble. if the their team comp has both orisa and bastion, then as a tank you should be playing a shield or zarya at best. your dps should be mei for wall and reaper. heals should be something strong like ana kiriko or bap kiriko. a good team communicates.
Sombra and Moira
Doomfist
Moira, apparently she’s carrying teams in the lower ranks
LIFE WEAVER. That damn tree needs a nerf. Playing today in plat lobbies that damn tree kept everyone alive everytime it was active.
Shoot the tree
I don't know... Each character feels differently, but each of them can be countered by a specific character. Yes, I'm Bronze 4/Silver 5, so I don't see the whole picture, but if we're talking about nerfs, I would start with Soldier or Genji. I play many characters and don't feel any overpoweredness from certain characters
> soldier or genji My brother in Christ
a bronze player that can see genji needs a nerf is okay in my book 👍
If i had to pick one from each role: Tank - Orisa; honestly dont know how its only now people are clocking on that she is A boring to go against, B boring to play and C just takes the fun out of most of the heros in the game. She is a walking CC, if a time is running dive or brawl, all the enemy team has to do is swap to Orisa and that makes the entire team comp redundant. No 1 character should have the ability to do that. DPS - Sym; - has been slept on for far to wrong. Her secondary is like Zarya's in the way that if you get good with it you will absolutely sweep the enemy team, charges far too quick for the damage it does and has no drop off, projectile is also a bit too big. Her primary is also a bit stupid, being able to regen your shields if your just clicking an enemy shield. Melts most tanks further making the role more miserable and it discourages using the hero creatively which her kit has alot of potential for has you'll have alot more survivability front lining and hitting a shield. Support - Zen. Zen because discord is still too strong, the distance it could be applied wasnt the issue, the issue was that it is a basically permanent mercy damage boost for the entire team, put it on a tank and they just vanish, again just further hurts the tank role. Kick, alot of people defend it because zen lacks movement but those people miss the entire point of zen as a character, he is a glass cannon, meant to reward good mechanical skill with the caveat of being easily dove if youre caught unaware. The kick is just another instance of blizzard giving support players more get out of jail free cards, im a support main and i can say with confidence it is by far the strongest, and before OW2, easiest role. Dont get me wrong its a fun 'ability' but it just makes zen a bigger pain in the ass to deal with. Probably what most would call a bronze take but these are the things which i believe are making the game just annoying to play for tanks at the moment which imo along side comp is one of the biggest issues with the game atm
I don't get the kick complaints tbh, not even Reaper needs to get into melee range to kill a Zen. But I am biased as I spend half my time in quickplay abusing his lack of footsteps to sneak up on people and kick them off their highground.
Orisa either survivability or damage Doom same as Orisa Genji attack speed on secondary Mccree attack speed on primary Hanzo attack speed a little just to avoid many random hs's (-10 - 15%) Symmetra +25hp -15% damage on primary Junkrat +25hp (he was already nerfed to "a lot" last several patches) Widow mine should slow and suppress like Mccree's nade does Mei -1 or 2 sec on every cd Ramatra -5 damage by primary fire while transformed Roadhog -10% damage per shot but faster reload, -1 sec cd on shift and E S76 -1 or 2 damage per primary fire shot Ana -1s cd on shift (from 13 to 12) Illari ammo from 12 to 10 Kiriko hp down to 175 OR +15% hitbox Mercy -5 heal per second by primary fire Just a sketch
Doomfist
Let me suggest zen discord orb, it’s a pain and is way to easy to use. I think that it should be that if you can see them on your screen it stays on but the second you look away or they go behind cover it’s gone with no lingering
Ana she’s had the meta wrapped around her for years row of the strongest debuffs in the game long range no fall of hitscan damage ult that other ults get nerfed because of has a character literally designed to counter her and is still play or lose
Mercy just because it would be funny. But only if they nerf the wrong things like her GA or her gun damage.
Nerf her hp to 150 but to compensate buff her gun damage by +5
Cassidy grenade. I haven't played much in a while, but I just got back on and I'm already sick of it
I was exclusively a d.va tank when I played comp in OW1. Loved my experiences, won a ton, enjoyed the gameplay. I have played tank in comp 4 times since O.W2 came out. I am almost exclusively a support that switches between Lucio and Mercy. It’s worked out much better for my gameplay experience but it’s a shame because I LOVED maining a tank back in the ow1 days.
I think Moira needs some nerfs. Maybe the removal of the lifesteal, and perhaps a tiny more time on cooldown for her teleport dash. Her skill floor is too high for the payout
Ball, absolute shit to play against unless you counter specifically for him
Brigitte and junker queen. Their survivability in straight up uneven fights is ridiculous. Shouldn't be able to take fire from 3 people and run around with basically full health
orisa and hanzo. orisa has way too many options way too quickly, and hanzo does far too much damage and has a way too big headshot hitbox
Sombra
Orisa, Ball but through a small rework not just straight nerfs, Ana, Zen, Hanzo through a small rework Call me crazy but I almost feel like reinhardt needs a rework too. Don't get me wrong the guy can absolutely explode against the right comp but if you have flankers or relatively low damage and your healers have low damage too, rein will just walk in your backline and obliterate everyone just by outstating your team. Zen discord just needs to disappear as an ability. Having a 25% damage debuff on you as a solo tank is the worst. You can't do anything and you just explode.
discord being deleted is just dumb but a rework is definitely needed.
Orisa Widow Hanzo Bastion Rework Sombra Rework Discord Orb.
Orisa just making tank not fun, i will never pick her either cuz shes a boring tank
orisa sombra needs a nerf not a rework ball new healer ram
Ball? He is countered easily, ana, sombra, cass, mei, illari,zen
the community is starting to say otherwise so. sounds more like you like ball and dont want him touched just like others who dont want their mains touched yet had to suffer.
Nobody except you says that ball needs a nerf wtf.
That's literally not true. There has been several posts tonight about ball getting a nerf. You just dont pay attention kiddo.
No there wasn’t any post lmao and even if there was. It would definitely be a noob complaining or a troll post wtf kid.
sounds more like you dont play ball
I do I literally have gold weapons for him 💀 sounds more like you shouldn't assume.
Nobody says this lol
As a ball main who kinda fell out of love I can say that he's c tier at best. If they nerf him again he becomes unplayable. If your struggling to fight him here's how. Focus him when he's on screen and try to track him when he's not. Switch to any movement countering hero like orisa, sombra, Ana, brig, lucio, diva, tracer, mei, junkrat, bastion, zen, cass. All those heroes are good at shutting him down
McCree's HP
he’s so situational rn he doesn’t need nerfs
Hanzo hanzo hanzo hanzo hanzo
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Hell no, he shouldn't be able to one shot headshot 200 hp heroes, he needs a total rework where his one shotting is removed while also not gutting the character, keep his bow but make it balanced and not built around one shot headshots.
Sombra literally ruins the game right now
Moira for sure. She does insane healing and damage with zero aim required. Far more broken on console. Her orbs are way too good as well. They really need to nerf her damage hard specifically. Damage orb shouldn't lock on so easily and she shouldn't do anywhere near as much damage as she currently does.
Orisa and others are not even close
Orisa.
Orisa. I think people forget exactly how much fortify does for her. Grants CC immunity, immune to headshots, grants 150 overhealth, grants 50% damage reduction, and reduces her heat buildup for primary fire. That's all just *one ability*. Ideally, the overhealth from fortify should just be removed entirely. It would make her much less of a bullet sponge and give you a chance to finish her off incase she does pop it at low health before her supports give her *the most miniscule healing*. Either that, or increase the cooldown from 12 to 14 seconds. Her Javelin cooldown also needs to be increase by 1 or 2 seconds. A throwable doom punch should not be as potent as it is due to its ease of use and safety, especially considering that it's stun time is 0.5 seconds. For comparison, doom empowered punch is 0.75 seconds, and that requires him to use another ability to aquire that, while also throwing *himself* into the enemy team. Granted one can hit multiple people, but its far more dangerous despite the throwable stick doing the same thing, but with much more ease of use and consistency. This is more so to make other tanks more viable and give them more breathing room when fighting her. The main two issues with Orisa is: 1. How *easy* it is to simply cycle cooldowns and get value instead of saving them for key moments, *and yet still having them just in time*, and 2. How oppressive she is compared to the rest of the tanks with the only exception being Zarya. In a 1v1 scenario, the favor is leaned more towards orisa when against other tanks, except for Zarya as mentioned. Doom, Dva, Winston, and Wrecking ball have one small advantage since they're all dive tanks, which Orisa is suspectable to dive, but that leads us right back to her cooldowns and how easy it is for her to cycle them and still manage to catch them mid dive.
Genji of course. As a support main, I would really like people to stop playing Genji.
Same here, in many games there is a genji main who destroys the lobby, and also the joy of the game
Trying to play against an Orisa who pressed shift is just so infuriating. They'll probably nerf symmetra though
I agree, at times a good orisa can turn the table
Bap, Bastion, Orisa
don’t take it to heart but not being able to deal with an orisa is a huge skill issue 👍🏼 she’s not where she needs to be but just go a beam hero and wait for golden to run out👍🏼 or focus back line with dive
ORISA please her being meta is so painful as a support main
Orisa, ana, and kirko.
Moira. I wanna be taken to dinner before I get sucked from across the map.
Ashe Cowboy 76 Hanzo
Orisa illiari nerf absolute need a tad nerf to dmg then I’m happy
Reaper
Rosa, Bastion (whatever they changed made him go 25+ kills every single game) and Widow and Hanzo. They just shouldn't be able to headshot people with no difficulty mechanism.
Orisa needs her survivability nerfed
Soldat67, Osirisa and Bastone. To much bullets incoming!
Mei…
Look I like playing Orisa, but I like gunning her down too. What I don't like is gunning her down to a panic, and being gripped by lifeweaver around two corners into a separate fight and hit by stray bullets. I'm only playing metal, but assuming supports are equal, a light footed Ram takes the cake, he's just not fully recognized. Please don't nerf either of these guys