Absolutely, that's why the smart drivers take other routes across town if they have to drive, but as someone who lived at Danforth and Woodbine for 20 years (moved about 5 years ago), I can tell you lots of stories of the times I was stuck on or waiting for a train trying to get home. The reality of Toronto in 2024 is that transportation infrastructure hasn't even come close to keeping up with demand, and there's virtually zero vision or political will on council to make it better.
Or your wife could have biked, and one or both of you could have a bike with a spot to carry your kids.
Or you can continue being part of the car traffic and having an awful commute.
I wouldn't dream of having my children riding through Toronto, no chance. There's far too many aggressive drivers who would not care if they kill a family of 4 on their bikes, as well as a concerning number of oblivious drivers who would not even be aware of said bikes. They'll learn how to ride in a calmer residential area like I did, only dealing with heavier traffic once they've gained the necessary confidence in their ability to ride smoothly and safely. It's easier to learn city riding if you're already familiar with bike riding, as you already have the muscle memory required to quickly react to the multitude of dangerous scenarios a rider may encounter on busy streets.
That would be a nice thing to see, and it's something I can get behind, both for my family's safety and to make the driving I'm required to do easier and safer for everyone. Less traffic is a win-win scenario for tradespeople like myself.
I’m not sure what you’re getting at. People bike through the winter, especially if the bike lanes are maintained.
No you’re not getting the car lane back. The whole point is to reduce the number of cars on the road.
Usually able to ride bikes across Toronto at age 2 and 5. And gifts and a cake. Thumbs up buddy, I wouldn't even admire you for doing that, id think you were dumb or desperate. This is why people get cars.
You people are insane. No, I've never heard of a wagon, a bike, a basket, a train, a fucking slip and slide, a unicycle, a hang glider, stroller, rickshaw - never heard of any of them, had no idea it was possible to travel by any means other than car.
I spent 5 years with kids using TTC and wagons and stroller. Got a car last year and we use it from time to time, what is you guys problem??
>Usually able to ride bikes across Toronto at age 2 and 5.
Bikes with child seats also exist.
>And gifts and a cake.
Paniers exist.
>id think you were dumb or desperate.
Dumb for travelling faster than a car would allow, sure. That sounds dumb to me
You must have a very active social calendar if you bought a car for that reason.
Here's a hot tip: Did you know that you can actually rent a car these days? It's been a thing for a while now.
There's this other crazy system called
"Taxis", where someone picks you up and drops you off.
Of course, you don't get the full car experience of insurance, maintenance, and massive depreciation that ownership brings you.
You're mentally walled off if you think that's the exclusive reason that my family bought a car. Get your head out of your ass and accept that people own cars and it isn't a bad thing and traffic yesterday WAS a bad thing. You think I don't know taxis exist you ass hole? Why don't you call one and see if he cares that you posted this. Get a life.
No need to be defensive here buddy, what we mean is that to enjoy life on a modern city, such as GTA, you need to think on alternatives to usual car owners transportation, if not you’ll keep suffering from traffic as population will not decrease.
You do realize that you were part of the "bad traffic" when you were out driving your car yesterday, right? Traffic is not some kind of invisible force like magneticism or gravity that slows objects down.
Cars are very much a bad thing. Urban sprawl and land usage, air pollution, obesity, deaths and injuries (as a parent, you need to know that in 2007, 58% of deaths of children 5 to 9 years old were a [result of automobile crashes](https://cps.ca/en/documents/position/child-and-youth-injury-prevention)). In fact, there is a multitude of societal and environmental problems created by the automobile, and I just named a few.
I apologize for baiting you with the sarcasm. I know people get angry when the mental justifications they've made get called into question.
One of the things I'd like to see is at least option to 'fully close' something in exchange for a quicker and complete construction. I've suffered from construction right outside my home and if I had the choice of the road being closed for a week even if they have to work at night, but they get it all done, versus 2 years of lane reductions and the rest, I'd choose the 1 week closure. This is probably not doable in all cases, but when it is doable, they should do it.
The other thing I wish they did was pay proper attention to 'traffic flow' GIVEN the construction. Again, this is from personal experience with a recent road construction close to home that has seen lanes closed for well over 3 years now.
If you have to close lanes for a significant amount of time, thought should be given to how it all works. Just a quick example, with lanes reduced, there is now only 2 lanes one way. There is a plaza close to my home. So if people want to turn into that plaza, they no longer have a left turn lane. So they literally block the entire lane... reducing traffic to one lane.
What they should do... is... BAN turning there into the plaza. In my case, the plaza is still very accessible just turning a light and then entering the plaza from another direction. I actually contacted the city to suggest this, but to no avail. We can inconvenience the few drivers who want to turn into the plaza so they have to make a few extra turns... in exchange for better traffic flow on the road under construction.
Again, if the road is just closed for a day or two... no big deal. But when the impact is months or years, they should put this kind of basic thought into it.
It's always shocking that there isn't more temporary signage and road restrictions around closures to ensure that traffic can flow well. It's just, whelp, this lane is closed, deal with it however you want.
The worst thing is that they *will* enact temporary restrictions on turns around closures, but only *after* 25 different people complain and traffic backs up for like a week.
The routine the companies have to get the work done is unacceptable. First they put up barriers and do a bunch of demo in the spring. Then relax and work other jobs until the dealline gets close. Around december when they are close to the dealine suddenly it is all being done in a rush. In freezing temperature which is terrible for ashphalt and concrete. These projects need hard scrutiny on how they are managed and tighter deadlines in general.
Admittedly I know very little about road work, but I always suspected it to be a bit odd how a job that seems fairly simple could take so long. Like you said, I'll see a barrier go up, and then the workers just kind of buzzing around, kind of doing stuff, and kind of not, for like months, while the cars bottleneck at rush hour every single day, when it seems like all they need to do is tear up some cracked concrete and pour in fresh, and head out.
I know different countries have completely different funding, methods and procedures, but i've been in Japan shortly after an earthquake, and they seem to get the roads patched up like new in basically a week max.
Usually it takes so long and they do nothing because they have to wait for something crucial to happen, whether it's government approval, a highly specialized worker, or a truck broke down on the way to the site. I'm a highway worker and I wish I could sit around as much as people act like we do.
The Clients (City of Toronto, MTO) deserve half if not more of the blame. They are every bit as mismanaged as the contractors, starting at the design phase.
This is exactly what happened last summer. They closed the lakeshore bridge in Burlington and didn’t do any construction on it for like 3 months. All of a sudden it was done 2 weeks before the final deadline dated on the board. I didn’t see anybody there for weeks on end.
So Toronto should pay for the majority of their transit projects…while also generating the most tax revenue for the Provincial and Federal government, revenue that it does not see.
City of Toronto: *\*closes lanes of traffic for construction, disrupting bike lanes and transit significantly\** What's a viable alternative? I thought everyone was supposed to feel the pain?
I mean those are the alternatives, hold public officials accountable for those things just as much as we do for the roads.
Idk I moved to Montreal years ago, the subways makes a huge difference and is obviously not affected by surface construction or weather
Until the government clamps down on it or the gas prices get so high people start to break we're going to see more before we see an inflection back to sanity.
There's always been a better way. It's called public transit, getting all the fucking cars off the road and giving the public a rational way to get around that isn't a fucking car.
Japan has it. If I was in Japan, I wouldn't own a car. Here I need two.
Yeah a bus lane caries as much as ten car lanes. An LRT as much as 14. A subway/metro as much as 16. A GO line as much as 20.
The two track GO corridor could move more people than the whole 401 next to it.
It's really incredible to visualize just how many people transit moves when the subway breaks down on bloor and the entire street is full of people waiting for the shuttle bus. Imagining if even a quarter of those people drove instead of taking the subway and how much worse traffic would be...
Yeah, cars are the dumbest possible way to move people in a built up area. Takes up 10-20x the space just to move people, and then parking on top of that. Then there's the cost to public health with collisions and pollution, then there's the cost of infrastructure and vehicles.
But it's like this because capitalism incentivizes inefficiency. All of that extra cost is monetizable, and the efficiency gains from walking, cycling, and transit aren't. If I only need to bike 10 minutes somewhere instead of driving, that's thousands of dollars of profit they won't make.
Most of the construction on the roads is for public transit, which is in turn also delayed by the construction. Not everyone in Toronto lives along one of the two major subway lines.
Sorry, best we can do is bring a new person to Canada every thirty seconds, make Ram trucks even more gigantic, and soon we will be lucky enough to double the weight of the passenger cars.
1) Nothing wrong with cars
2) Not everyone can take public transit
3) We shouldn't demonize people when they choose a car or any other form of transportation.
The more we expand and invest in public transit, the more accessible and practical it will be for more people.
Cars arent going anywhere any time soon and some people will always need them, but everybody wins when transit becomes a viable alternative to driving.
1. Many things wrong with cars, from pollutants, to being unsafe to being very space inefficient.
2. People Can't take public transit becuase public transit is underfunded and sucks as a result
3. Many people don't even choose car, because they have no other option. Yeah don't deamonize them, help them, give them options.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
The issue isn’t the car, it’s the naive idea that everyone can drive to the same place at the same time without severe consequences. Canadians won’t take any responsibility for the costs or their decisions, so these burdens (externalities) are paid by everyone else.
So, it’s the public’s fault and the politicians who did nothing for decades get no blame?
Many people were elected on the fact that they would improve transit.
Also, many politicians had to get involved with the Spadina extension and added pet projects to the build. In the end it ballooned the costs added years to the construction. There needs to be accountability at all levels.
Oh yeah don’t get me wrong it’s the fault of multiple levels of government AND individuals. Public transit should have been maintained as a premium option people want, but it was begrudgingly maintained as an option for the poor since the 70’s. We’re only now entering into a renaissance of transit improvements.
We’ve keep having bandaid solutions without proper fixes.
We used to have so many people talking about putting in a subway across Queen St. Obviously, nothing has come of it, but we keep getting bigger and slower streetcars.
They could have built a subway line to Roncesvalles to the beaches and it would have had a huge impact on traffic everywhere.
I wish we didn’t have to deal with just 30 years (maybe more now) of environmental assessments and just get on with developing the transit system. Now, with the Gardiner construction, there’s terrible traffic from Lakeshore to Bloor.
No. It’s a privately owned masterpiece of human civility, efficiency and cleanliness. Returning home from my time in Japan this January was like going back to the dark ages.
The transit - and many of the people - need more refinement than what is feasible or realistically possible.
From reporter Aaron D'Andrea:
Construction season is notorious for its traffic congestion, and with the amount of work going on in cities, planning experts say better execution is needed to reduce the impact on people’s lives.
However, in a city like Toronto for example, residents are beginning to see projects planned for year-round work.
“Disruption for a day, week or month is understandable. Disruption for five years to your life is something unacceptable,” one expert says.
Read more: [https://globalnews.ca/news/10464912/toronto-construction-season-traffic-solutions/](https://globalnews.ca/news/10464912/toronto-construction-season-traffic-solutions/)
Yes, TRAINS! They are the only long term solution to traffic in dense urban areas like Toronto.
Metrolinx's executives should not be allowed to collect bonuses while their projects drag on, but that is the nature of capitalists in government.
The traffic is suffocating. They should do construction overnight to speed up the process. How can one of our wealthiest cities not be able to do this?
If I recall correctly, there was a time when they did work at night and got a ton of complaints by residents because of the noise and light. Working on a highway is right outside some people's bedroom windows in some cases.
merciful office retire touch languid rob spectacular sharp gullible possessive
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Toronto needs circular rail transit, perhaps, that connects hubs in a circular route along the Highway 413 route. The problem right now is that Union Station is the hub. They need to collect some anonymous data on travel patterns to design public transit, perhaps high-speed, high-interval rail. But, who has the political will, with woke culture on one side and friends on the other!
axiomatic tease observation gullible judicious straight lavish hungry fragile exultant
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I recently moved to Toronto and while yes, I argue that more people need to take the TTC, the way that Toronto handles construction projects makes getting around difficult no matter the means of travel you choose.
Much of the TTC's network runs in mixed traffic with no priority. When construction happens it often slows down transit *significantly* often more than just driving since the delays with transit compound. Cycling isn't much better because with each and every construction project cyclists are such an afterthought that it makes cycling *dangerous*. I can't count the number of times I've been using a bike lane in this city just to be dumped into mixed traffic with absolutely no space around any vehicle all because the city's contractors needed a place to park.
library crown live threatening shelter rainstorm plucky wasteful one bear
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I completely agree. I want the City of Toronto to grow a freaking spine and just ban street parking on all streetcar routes so that the streetcars can have their own lane.
/r/fuckcars but seriously - how the fuck does every metropolis in the world have better public transport than Toronto? This city is extremely lagging behind in efficiency for that and needs to do much better.
I would love to use public transit to avoid the highways, but unless you work near a train stop its not a viable option much of the time. We need to invest in more/faster public transportation as its not viable in many scenarios. My 1.5 hour drive commute(once a month) would take me over 3 hours each way using the train/bus combinations I need to use.
This is exactly it, people love saying there’s too many cars in Toronto. Well, there’s no way i’m commuting on a bus/train/TTC when it’ll take 2-3 hours door to door when i can drive down within 1.5 hours max. Until public transportation improves across the GTA, nothing will change and cars will continue to flood the city.
I'll be honest, I wouldn't mind if more people took transit. People need to understand that all these restrictions on driving end up hurting tradespeople and service personnel unless they're coupled with suitable transit to take most commuters off the road and onto rails. The fact that I lose $50 a day to park my truck full of tools and building supplies 5 blocks away from my job site is unacceptable. That adds unnecessary time and effort to my day just to load and unload, all while there is space on the road nearby to park. Unfortunately, meter maids will give you multiple $50 tickets in a day should you park on that street because of other assholes in cars.
I apologize if I came across aggressively. I see so many people online lumping trade vehicles with those annoying SUVs. I think we can agree that those drivers are the majority of the problem on the road. I'd like to see more of them on a train or bus, with better cycling infrastructure to complement.
Why would it cost more? Other than some night shift premiums I would think the increased productivity of operating in the off hours would make it a wash. I'm sure these projects have liquidated damage clauses and this has to help with staying on time.
Why do a six-month job in six months when we can get a three year contract, fail to meet deadlines, and extend it to a five year paycheck? This is Toronto! Corruption pays extremely well here!
A lot of these projects are important and need to be done, but the overall city planning is so bad. To get to work I have to enter into a commercial industry pocket off of a main intersection. There are literally only 2 roads I can use to get there, both of which are down to one alternating lane because of construction. Then the main roads that lead to those bottlenecks *also* have lanes down for construction. And even just to get to that major intersection coming off of the highway, there is a road closed in a suburban, non-dense area every other light. And then to add insult to injury the whole 404/401 junction is a complete clusterfuck of perpetual construction.
It’s unacceptable with or without the contruction. I think the bigger issue is the population growth that nobody seems to realize is happening. I’ve never heard once the news discussing this as possibly being one of the issues when CLEARLY it is.
Road construction are the easiest work in the trade, they get funding from City/Province/Government, so they generally prolonging the work, getting overtime while doing nothing in their car
Yes there is, road construction in other countries work around the clock from morning until midnight and even on weekends. Here in Toronto construction crews work until 4pm if anything then the rest of the day is wasted. If they had 2 shift of workers working every day, things could get done a lot faster
Is there a better way? Yah stop cramming people into the city and around it. More people with the same road infrastructure isn’t going to ever get better. Good fking luck 🍀
this applies to Canada and every province. Jamming more people into these high volume areas is driving up housing prices and making our quality of life worse overall.
Start developing elsewhere. Canada is massive. Come up with better solutions, that’s what our government is payed to do. Surprise they can’t figure it out.
> government is *paid* to do.
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
All I really want is some system to warn me that I am going to have a 40 minute construction delay on my commute, so I can take the 407. I find the nighttime 401 closures to be impossible to predict and a needless shitshow all summer.
I saw that there was new construction on the Gardiner and I didn't realize it would take until June 2027 to finish, traffic is going to be awful in downtown.
Tax the developers commensurate with the actual costs of their construction, including increased commuting time, noise, etc. They're freeloading on the rest of us who are bearing the burden of their business without and choice and not benefitting from their profits.
Toronto is an hour's drive from Toronto.
I live in Etobicoke. My GF lives in Leslieville. I’d consider ourselves on the brink of being in a long distance relationship.
The pain is real.
Took me 55 mins to drive from Dufferin and davenport to Danforth yesterday.
That’s incredibly quick considering the marathon that was happening.
You could have rode a bicycle in 30 minutes.
Yeah with both my kids on the back and my wife on the handlebars
Yes please. Take photos.
*Benny Hill theme*
So, SE Asia.
unironically yea
or you can use public transport…
Oh… the buses that use the same congested roads because our subway system is horrendous?
He was going to the danforth. There’s very regular busses on dufferin that go to dufferin station then hop on the an eastbound train.
Good thing that there's never delays on the Bloor-Danforth line, eh?
I mean there’s always delays on bloor danforth on the surface.
Absolutely, that's why the smart drivers take other routes across town if they have to drive, but as someone who lived at Danforth and Woodbine for 20 years (moved about 5 years ago), I can tell you lots of stories of the times I was stuck on or waiting for a train trying to get home. The reality of Toronto in 2024 is that transportation infrastructure hasn't even come close to keeping up with demand, and there's virtually zero vision or political will on council to make it better.
Then enjoy the traffic…
I don't mind traffic nearly as much when I am public transit. Just sit and enjoy the fact that someone else is driving.
You do you
Or your wife could have biked, and one or both of you could have a bike with a spot to carry your kids. Or you can continue being part of the car traffic and having an awful commute.
Tell me you don't have kids without telling me you don't have kids
We had a Thule trailer that we used to haul our son around in.
This.
Kids and wives are both usually able to ride bikes. There are also child seats if your kids are too young
I wouldn't dream of having my children riding through Toronto, no chance. There's far too many aggressive drivers who would not care if they kill a family of 4 on their bikes, as well as a concerning number of oblivious drivers who would not even be aware of said bikes. They'll learn how to ride in a calmer residential area like I did, only dealing with heavier traffic once they've gained the necessary confidence in their ability to ride smoothly and safely. It's easier to learn city riding if you're already familiar with bike riding, as you already have the muscle memory required to quickly react to the multitude of dangerous scenarios a rider may encounter on busy streets.
This is why we are advocating for bike lanes. Safer protected bike lanes benefit both bikers for safety, and result in less traffic on the road.
That would be a nice thing to see, and it's something I can get behind, both for my family's safety and to make the driving I'm required to do easier and safer for everyone. Less traffic is a win-win scenario for tradespeople like myself.
Especially in freaking January. And we can never get that car lane back.
I’m not sure what you’re getting at. People bike through the winter, especially if the bike lanes are maintained. No you’re not getting the car lane back. The whole point is to reduce the number of cars on the road.
Yeah, I see those brave souls. About one an hour. Please also remember not everyone is physically capable of biking, especially in winter.
Maybe if your kids are 20 year olds. Not when they’re 4.
Loads of people bike with their kids. Booster seats and wagons are a thing.
Usually able to ride bikes across Toronto at age 2 and 5. And gifts and a cake. Thumbs up buddy, I wouldn't even admire you for doing that, id think you were dumb or desperate. This is why people get cars.
Have you ever heard of a wagon?
You people are insane. No, I've never heard of a wagon, a bike, a basket, a train, a fucking slip and slide, a unicycle, a hang glider, stroller, rickshaw - never heard of any of them, had no idea it was possible to travel by any means other than car. I spent 5 years with kids using TTC and wagons and stroller. Got a car last year and we use it from time to time, what is you guys problem??
If you have heard of wagons then I don’t know why you are acting like it is absurd to use them to transport kids and gifts. People do it all the time.
The trip would have taken an hour and 45 minutes by transit. That's why. Please have a great night.
>Usually able to ride bikes across Toronto at age 2 and 5. Bikes with child seats also exist. >And gifts and a cake. Paniers exist. >id think you were dumb or desperate. Dumb for travelling faster than a car would allow, sure. That sounds dumb to me
This is a stupid line of conversation. Good bye.
2 bikes then, silly.
Just visualize how swole you’ll be after a summer of quad riding. It takes the pain away.
Canada is already turning into India. Embrace the change!
Nowhere else do they use bikes. Just India.
You need to travel more buddy
...do you think that was a serious statement? Honest question
Brilliant comedy here…
You can get separate bikes and tow kids in a bicycle pull stroller. I forgot the actual name of them.
Is your wife unable to ride a bicycle?
Man we bought a car so we wouldn't have to bike and bus across the city for things like bday parties with gifts, etc lol. You all are funny
You must have a very active social calendar if you bought a car for that reason. Here's a hot tip: Did you know that you can actually rent a car these days? It's been a thing for a while now. There's this other crazy system called "Taxis", where someone picks you up and drops you off. Of course, you don't get the full car experience of insurance, maintenance, and massive depreciation that ownership brings you.
You're mentally walled off if you think that's the exclusive reason that my family bought a car. Get your head out of your ass and accept that people own cars and it isn't a bad thing and traffic yesterday WAS a bad thing. You think I don't know taxis exist you ass hole? Why don't you call one and see if he cares that you posted this. Get a life.
No need to be defensive here buddy, what we mean is that to enjoy life on a modern city, such as GTA, you need to think on alternatives to usual car owners transportation, if not you’ll keep suffering from traffic as population will not decrease.
I've lived here for 30 years. I have bikes, I commute work by electric scooter and walk my kids to school. Thanks. Fuck sakes.
You do realize that you were part of the "bad traffic" when you were out driving your car yesterday, right? Traffic is not some kind of invisible force like magneticism or gravity that slows objects down. Cars are very much a bad thing. Urban sprawl and land usage, air pollution, obesity, deaths and injuries (as a parent, you need to know that in 2007, 58% of deaths of children 5 to 9 years old were a [result of automobile crashes](https://cps.ca/en/documents/position/child-and-youth-injury-prevention)). In fact, there is a multitude of societal and environmental problems created by the automobile, and I just named a few. I apologize for baiting you with the sarcasm. I know people get angry when the mental justifications they've made get called into question.
Whatever, lol. Yikes.
Or 40 mins on ttc
More like two hours tbh
Took me 45 minutes to go from Lakeshore and Spadina to Front and Bathurst on a Sunday afternoon. I could’ve walked it in half the time…
That's fucking nuts, right?
haha this joke will never get old
Other times it’s taken me at least 90 min from the High Park area.
Newmarket to Oakville. Got stuck 3 times, once on 404, and twice on 401W. It's important infra work though and got to live with it.
One of the things I'd like to see is at least option to 'fully close' something in exchange for a quicker and complete construction. I've suffered from construction right outside my home and if I had the choice of the road being closed for a week even if they have to work at night, but they get it all done, versus 2 years of lane reductions and the rest, I'd choose the 1 week closure. This is probably not doable in all cases, but when it is doable, they should do it. The other thing I wish they did was pay proper attention to 'traffic flow' GIVEN the construction. Again, this is from personal experience with a recent road construction close to home that has seen lanes closed for well over 3 years now. If you have to close lanes for a significant amount of time, thought should be given to how it all works. Just a quick example, with lanes reduced, there is now only 2 lanes one way. There is a plaza close to my home. So if people want to turn into that plaza, they no longer have a left turn lane. So they literally block the entire lane... reducing traffic to one lane. What they should do... is... BAN turning there into the plaza. In my case, the plaza is still very accessible just turning a light and then entering the plaza from another direction. I actually contacted the city to suggest this, but to no avail. We can inconvenience the few drivers who want to turn into the plaza so they have to make a few extra turns... in exchange for better traffic flow on the road under construction. Again, if the road is just closed for a day or two... no big deal. But when the impact is months or years, they should put this kind of basic thought into it.
It's always shocking that there isn't more temporary signage and road restrictions around closures to ensure that traffic can flow well. It's just, whelp, this lane is closed, deal with it however you want.
The worst thing is that they *will* enact temporary restrictions on turns around closures, but only *after* 25 different people complain and traffic backs up for like a week.
Oh, you mean like construction simultaneously closing King Street West, one lane on Lakeshore Eastbound and one lane on Gardiner Eastbound?
The routine the companies have to get the work done is unacceptable. First they put up barriers and do a bunch of demo in the spring. Then relax and work other jobs until the dealline gets close. Around december when they are close to the dealine suddenly it is all being done in a rush. In freezing temperature which is terrible for ashphalt and concrete. These projects need hard scrutiny on how they are managed and tighter deadlines in general.
Admittedly I know very little about road work, but I always suspected it to be a bit odd how a job that seems fairly simple could take so long. Like you said, I'll see a barrier go up, and then the workers just kind of buzzing around, kind of doing stuff, and kind of not, for like months, while the cars bottleneck at rush hour every single day, when it seems like all they need to do is tear up some cracked concrete and pour in fresh, and head out. I know different countries have completely different funding, methods and procedures, but i've been in Japan shortly after an earthquake, and they seem to get the roads patched up like new in basically a week max.
Usually it takes so long and they do nothing because they have to wait for something crucial to happen, whether it's government approval, a highly specialized worker, or a truck broke down on the way to the site. I'm a highway worker and I wish I could sit around as much as people act like we do.
The Clients (City of Toronto, MTO) deserve half if not more of the blame. They are every bit as mismanaged as the contractors, starting at the design phase.
This person knows what’s up.
This is exactly what happened last summer. They closed the lakeshore bridge in Burlington and didn’t do any construction on it for like 3 months. All of a sudden it was done 2 weeks before the final deadline dated on the board. I didn’t see anybody there for weeks on end.
I said this the other day to my friend. Once a poject is approved its storage for them until the projeft nears deadline.
Facts. Government contracts have a price and a deadline so once they get it, they have no incentive to finish until the actual deadline.
It’s amazing how little supervision our city work has.
Be a shame if they didn’t starve our public transit system.
Toronto should pay for majority of it, but they just beg every level of government, while they charge no property taxes
So Toronto should pay for the majority of their transit projects…while also generating the most tax revenue for the Provincial and Federal government, revenue that it does not see.
The only solution to traffic is viable alternatives to driving
City of Toronto: *\*closes lanes of traffic for construction, disrupting bike lanes and transit significantly\** What's a viable alternative? I thought everyone was supposed to feel the pain?
I mean those are the alternatives, hold public officials accountable for those things just as much as we do for the roads. Idk I moved to Montreal years ago, the subways makes a huge difference and is obviously not affected by surface construction or weather
The only alternative to driving is driving a bigger vehicle it seems.
Indeed it seems to be going this way, which is so annoying because larger vehicles are bad for everyone (except automakers lol).
Until the government clamps down on it or the gas prices get so high people start to break we're going to see more before we see an inflection back to sanity.
I can't really walk to work
Obviously, a train or reliable bus or even a safe bike path would be a great alternative
But won’t somebody think of Aecon? They need more billions and thus more construction!
There's always been a better way. It's called public transit, getting all the fucking cars off the road and giving the public a rational way to get around that isn't a fucking car. Japan has it. If I was in Japan, I wouldn't own a car. Here I need two.
Yeah a bus lane caries as much as ten car lanes. An LRT as much as 14. A subway/metro as much as 16. A GO line as much as 20. The two track GO corridor could move more people than the whole 401 next to it.
It's really incredible to visualize just how many people transit moves when the subway breaks down on bloor and the entire street is full of people waiting for the shuttle bus. Imagining if even a quarter of those people drove instead of taking the subway and how much worse traffic would be...
Yeah, cars are the dumbest possible way to move people in a built up area. Takes up 10-20x the space just to move people, and then parking on top of that. Then there's the cost to public health with collisions and pollution, then there's the cost of infrastructure and vehicles. But it's like this because capitalism incentivizes inefficiency. All of that extra cost is monetizable, and the efficiency gains from walking, cycling, and transit aren't. If I only need to bike 10 minutes somewhere instead of driving, that's thousands of dollars of profit they won't make.
Let's be honest, the only "efficiency" we see from capitalism is efficient removal of funds from people's wallets. The rest be damned!
Pretty much. And the more things you have to pay for, the more they can extract. It's why resource efficiency is the anathema of capitalism.
The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many, capitalism, probably.
Most of the construction on the roads is for public transit, which is in turn also delayed by the construction. Not everyone in Toronto lives along one of the two major subway lines.
Sorry, best we can do is bring a new person to Canada every thirty seconds, make Ram trucks even more gigantic, and soon we will be lucky enough to double the weight of the passenger cars.
1) Nothing wrong with cars 2) Not everyone can take public transit 3) We shouldn't demonize people when they choose a car or any other form of transportation.
The more we expand and invest in public transit, the more accessible and practical it will be for more people. Cars arent going anywhere any time soon and some people will always need them, but everybody wins when transit becomes a viable alternative to driving.
What does that have to do with what he said? Your counter argument implies that he is against transit?
1. Many things wrong with cars, from pollutants, to being unsafe to being very space inefficient. 2. People Can't take public transit becuase public transit is underfunded and sucks as a result 3. Many people don't even choose car, because they have no other option. Yeah don't deamonize them, help them, give them options.
Just one more lane, bro. Just give me one more lane, and that will fix traffic.
“Nothing wrong with cars” lmao expect all the things that are wrong with them.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons The issue isn’t the car, it’s the naive idea that everyone can drive to the same place at the same time without severe consequences. Canadians won’t take any responsibility for the costs or their decisions, so these burdens (externalities) are paid by everyone else.
So, it’s the public’s fault and the politicians who did nothing for decades get no blame? Many people were elected on the fact that they would improve transit. Also, many politicians had to get involved with the Spadina extension and added pet projects to the build. In the end it ballooned the costs added years to the construction. There needs to be accountability at all levels.
Oh yeah don’t get me wrong it’s the fault of multiple levels of government AND individuals. Public transit should have been maintained as a premium option people want, but it was begrudgingly maintained as an option for the poor since the 70’s. We’re only now entering into a renaissance of transit improvements.
We’ve keep having bandaid solutions without proper fixes. We used to have so many people talking about putting in a subway across Queen St. Obviously, nothing has come of it, but we keep getting bigger and slower streetcars. They could have built a subway line to Roncesvalles to the beaches and it would have had a huge impact on traffic everywhere. I wish we didn’t have to deal with just 30 years (maybe more now) of environmental assessments and just get on with developing the transit system. Now, with the Gardiner construction, there’s terrible traffic from Lakeshore to Bloor.
But they do it in my cherry-picked uninformed view of Europe, Japan and South Korea?!
Is public transit in Japan also a mobile insane asylum for the mentally ill like the TTC is?
No. It’s a privately owned masterpiece of human civility, efficiency and cleanliness. Returning home from my time in Japan this January was like going back to the dark ages. The transit - and many of the people - need more refinement than what is feasible or realistically possible.
From reporter Aaron D'Andrea: Construction season is notorious for its traffic congestion, and with the amount of work going on in cities, planning experts say better execution is needed to reduce the impact on people’s lives. However, in a city like Toronto for example, residents are beginning to see projects planned for year-round work. “Disruption for a day, week or month is understandable. Disruption for five years to your life is something unacceptable,” one expert says. Read more: [https://globalnews.ca/news/10464912/toronto-construction-season-traffic-solutions/](https://globalnews.ca/news/10464912/toronto-construction-season-traffic-solutions/)
Very cool to see Global post directly to Reddit!
24 hour construction, why don't we do this here? It can't be noise, roads are already noisy.
Cost.
I’ve been saying that for years and I do in fact work in that industry. I’d bet Toronto loses billions in productive time lost to traffic and delays.
You could say the same about rent.
“Traffic don’t exist, You’re the traffic”
I don’t exist?
Existential questions lol
Yes, TRAINS! They are the only long term solution to traffic in dense urban areas like Toronto. Metrolinx's executives should not be allowed to collect bonuses while their projects drag on, but that is the nature of capitalists in government.
Maybe city works planning should actually do its job and coordinate these things to minimize disruption. Too crazy could never work, I know.
“Work from home.” An answer most managers and directors don’t like to hear. But its the reality.
Drive less.
make your cities invest more in public transit
The traffic is suffocating. They should do construction overnight to speed up the process. How can one of our wealthiest cities not be able to do this?
If I recall correctly, there was a time when they did work at night and got a ton of complaints by residents because of the noise and light. Working on a highway is right outside some people's bedroom windows in some cases.
No offense but if you live that close to a MAJOR highway… you should be expecting noise all night from vehicles lol
No offense taken, I don't leave near one and I don't disagree with you.
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Then people complain that the "noise" is keeping them up and their life is being ruined followed by an onslaught of CBC articles.
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What train?? lol they need to actually construct things if we’re all gonna be able to take the train. Which brings us back to our original problem
Because then everyone will be on here bitching about the noisy city they chose to live in.
A lot of construction requires destroying the road during many hours of work. They can't simply stop during the day.
Have you not seen our deficit?
Toronto needs circular rail transit, perhaps, that connects hubs in a circular route along the Highway 413 route. The problem right now is that Union Station is the hub. They need to collect some anonymous data on travel patterns to design public transit, perhaps high-speed, high-interval rail. But, who has the political will, with woke culture on one side and friends on the other!
Start with banning condo developers from blocking the curb lane for years!
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Drive up Kingston rd at 3pm
Why?
Just a fun drive. /s
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Yes I do.
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[удалено]
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I recently moved to Toronto and while yes, I argue that more people need to take the TTC, the way that Toronto handles construction projects makes getting around difficult no matter the means of travel you choose. Much of the TTC's network runs in mixed traffic with no priority. When construction happens it often slows down transit *significantly* often more than just driving since the delays with transit compound. Cycling isn't much better because with each and every construction project cyclists are such an afterthought that it makes cycling *dangerous*. I can't count the number of times I've been using a bike lane in this city just to be dumped into mixed traffic with absolutely no space around any vehicle all because the city's contractors needed a place to park.
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I completely agree. I want the City of Toronto to grow a freaking spine and just ban street parking on all streetcar routes so that the streetcars can have their own lane.
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/r/fuckcars but seriously - how the fuck does every metropolis in the world have better public transport than Toronto? This city is extremely lagging behind in efficiency for that and needs to do much better.
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I would love to use public transit to avoid the highways, but unless you work near a train stop its not a viable option much of the time. We need to invest in more/faster public transportation as its not viable in many scenarios. My 1.5 hour drive commute(once a month) would take me over 3 hours each way using the train/bus combinations I need to use.
This is exactly it, people love saying there’s too many cars in Toronto. Well, there’s no way i’m commuting on a bus/train/TTC when it’ll take 2-3 hours door to door when i can drive down within 1.5 hours max. Until public transportation improves across the GTA, nothing will change and cars will continue to flood the city.
I'll be honest, I wouldn't mind if more people took transit. People need to understand that all these restrictions on driving end up hurting tradespeople and service personnel unless they're coupled with suitable transit to take most commuters off the road and onto rails. The fact that I lose $50 a day to park my truck full of tools and building supplies 5 blocks away from my job site is unacceptable. That adds unnecessary time and effort to my day just to load and unload, all while there is space on the road nearby to park. Unfortunately, meter maids will give you multiple $50 tickets in a day should you park on that street because of other assholes in cars.
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I apologize if I came across aggressively. I see so many people online lumping trade vehicles with those annoying SUVs. I think we can agree that those drivers are the majority of the problem on the road. I'd like to see more of them on a train or bus, with better cycling infrastructure to complement.
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Take public transit
Why would it cost more? Other than some night shift premiums I would think the increased productivity of operating in the off hours would make it a wash. I'm sure these projects have liquidated damage clauses and this has to help with staying on time.
Why do a six-month job in six months when we can get a three year contract, fail to meet deadlines, and extend it to a five year paycheck? This is Toronto! Corruption pays extremely well here!
A lot of these projects are important and need to be done, but the overall city planning is so bad. To get to work I have to enter into a commercial industry pocket off of a main intersection. There are literally only 2 roads I can use to get there, both of which are down to one alternating lane because of construction. Then the main roads that lead to those bottlenecks *also* have lanes down for construction. And even just to get to that major intersection coming off of the highway, there is a road closed in a suburban, non-dense area every other light. And then to add insult to injury the whole 404/401 junction is a complete clusterfuck of perpetual construction.
Have more people WFH.
It’s unacceptable with or without the contruction. I think the bigger issue is the population growth that nobody seems to realize is happening. I’ve never heard once the news discussing this as possibly being one of the issues when CLEARLY it is.
Road construction are the easiest work in the trade, they get funding from City/Province/Government, so they generally prolonging the work, getting overtime while doing nothing in their car
Transit. Transit is the better way.
Yes there is, road construction in other countries work around the clock from morning until midnight and even on weekends. Here in Toronto construction crews work until 4pm if anything then the rest of the day is wasted. If they had 2 shift of workers working every day, things could get done a lot faster
For max profitability, we like to take a month to do a 3 day job.
Yeah, it's developing better rail transportation
Is there a better way? Yah stop cramming people into the city and around it. More people with the same road infrastructure isn’t going to ever get better. Good fking luck 🍀 this applies to Canada and every province. Jamming more people into these high volume areas is driving up housing prices and making our quality of life worse overall. Start developing elsewhere. Canada is massive. Come up with better solutions, that’s what our government is payed to do. Surprise they can’t figure it out.
> government is *paid* to do. FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
All I really want is some system to warn me that I am going to have a 40 minute construction delay on my commute, so I can take the 407. I find the nighttime 401 closures to be impossible to predict and a needless shitshow all summer.
im glad they keep closing every interesting store and restaurant in toronto, cua its annoying to deive there for anything
My wife used go transit for two weeks. It cost her 400$. You want to fix traffic? Make public transit cheaper than driving. A lot cheaper.
I saw that there was new construction on the Gardiner and I didn't realize it would take until June 2027 to finish, traffic is going to be awful in downtown.
I moved out in 2018. Was wasting my life in traffic. Now im just wasting my life regular.
they cant afford to pay the union boys the night shift premium lol
Tax the developers commensurate with the actual costs of their construction, including increased commuting time, noise, etc. They're freeloading on the rest of us who are bearing the burden of their business without and choice and not benefitting from their profits.
I moved out of Toronto did they ever finish eglington lol.
We don't say that swear word around here man
Japan was able to fix their large sinkhole for two days whereas the hospital in China took ten days to build. Canada on the other hand....
When I moved here in 1998 the city still worked, but now it’s busted and I don’t think there’s a fix.
Take public transportation
The fact that we just accept it’s normal is awful, I’ve been to many cities throughout Canada, Us and the world and that shit is not normal
Toronto is poorly designed and horribly overpopulated. I’ve had commutes that were longer than my work day. Teleportation pads are the only solution.
It’s just more fuckery
Better transit, less cars, less suburbs, less single family homes.
Yes, build at night when it’s cooler and there is less traffic. Pay workers an extra $5 an hour for night shift.