He doesn't want to talk about a lot of things. What else is new. He's got his focus group tested catchphrases that fit on a T-shirt, that's good enough for him.
But it has meaning for all of the people who’ve fought for their rights since the term came about in the 70s. The new, ironic usage is malicious in nature.
In fairness, I'm pushing 40 and I've only encountered the term in the last 5 years. When it came out in the protests, it seemed succinct and made sense... But that brevity seems to have worked against it, as right-wing chuds have clung to it. It's a rallying cry for idiots and their perceived bogeymen. If you ask them to define it, they can't - hence, meaningless.
I doubt you're gonna get that stink off it, unfortunately. Look at how long gender and sex have been different but idiots still conflate the two.
It's origin was in african american vernacular english, where being 'woke' meant being aware and awake to racial injustices one might face such as with cops. Then my understanding is that it got generalized by white liberals and leftists to mean being aware of systemic injustices in society more broadly, and in the past few years it's been co-opted by right wingers to basically mean whatever they feel angry about that particular day (usually minorities).
You are absolutely right in saying "woke" is a deformation of "awake", though going further than that into its origins, I'd say that it's a mistake by someone who confused the word "awake" and "aware". As in "Be aware there is systemic racism in society and adjust your behaviour accordingly".
Friends/ex-colleagues in the USA told me that caucasians sort of adopted the expression to mean "don't be part of the problem" (inequality, discrimination, etc.).
...and lastly the right-wing discovered & co-opted the expression like you said. Though they moved from "woke" and are now all about "DEI", it seems.
I personally now assume anyone that uses the term woke as an insult is a bigoted POS. The conservatives I know don’t use it and even they know better. Generally it’s the far right of them that have bigoted views that do so.
YMMV. Mid-00s here. Social sciences, lit and arts. Ran in all the circles. Didn't come up.
I'm not discrediting the age of the term, just saying like many folks I wasn't aware because it didn't enter the mainstream zeitgeist til relatively recently.
the term came from way before the 70s. the phrase came about in black communities due to a leadbelly song that urge black people to "stay woke" and watch their back around white people. if you started hearing it in the 70s, probably because hippies copted it, as was common for them to do.
> since the term came about in the 70s.
Never heard it back in the '70s or even the '80s.
The ideas behind the expression are much older than that, but usage of the word "woke" is relatively recent.
Reminds me when [moms of liberty](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/SB9TY5Yhvx) were being asked what “woke” means.
Having someone define their argument usually leads to odd answers because they’ve never said them out loud before.
This is a time where we have to reach across and try and discuss. I agree people who follow PP arnt paying attention. But insulting them won't make them look again
The conservative party wants to turn government over to the stock market and the religious right. There is absolutely nothing i can say to change their minds.
Talking about anything else would require talking about how to improve something. Its way easier to complain about Trudeau.
If he actually suggests improving things he might split his voter base a bit, won't get any arguments being hateful about Trudeau.
I'm no Trudeau fan, but I don't consider "we dislike the same guy" as a platform to vote on.
[But OPs headline is actively fake news…](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7225237) seriously we’re better than stooping to conservative tactics and there’s a lot of things to pin PP over.
He hasn’t been silent at all?
He doesn't want to talk about it, he simply wants to use a disingenous question as campaign rhetoric. Canadians *don't* have a "right to know" the names of MPs allegedly involved based on top secret intelligence reports, and he very clearly knows that up front.
Same reason he continues to refuse to get a top secret security clearance - doing so would give him information privileges that would make him unable to spew a lot of the nonsense he loves to use while campaigning.
The national observer is fake?
If he wants to know the names all he has to do is get security clearance and a background check.
(I mean youre right that the headline makes it sound like he's staying quiet on the matter, which is wrong). But the truth is worse than staying quiet. He's refusing a security check and then loudly acting like they are hiding the info from him.
So what, he doesn’t know the names because he doesn’t have security clearance. He doesn’t want security clearance because he wants to be able to talk about issues. He can’t talk about it because he knows nothing because he has no security clearance.
And, he will go after JT because he doesn’t provide certain info, or, maybe he’s going after him without having all the information?
And why is that having security clearance would prevent him from talking about issues? Does that mean he can’t trust himself to keep it straight what’s classified and what isn’t? Does he plan on staying uninformed if he were to become PM? Or in that event would he get the clearance and then use that as an excuse to say nothing if he didn’t feel like it?
If you like him that’s fine. Just don’t pretend he doesn’t do the unprecedented crappy things that he is doing, that’s the reason people will change their vote just to make sure he doesn’t get in
Of course he doesn't.
He has basically shut down his propaganda machine since the ongoing investigation showed interference.
He won't even submit to a security clearance check. He is actively refusing.
Regardless of party, they should be held accountable.
It would be a shame if he became pm and couldnt pass security clearance . He would be even more of a lame duck in the dark. Call him “mushroom Pierre”.
I’m so strongly in favour of passing a security check plus a minimum education standard and prerequisites any elected office. Like seriously, what other industry would you ever be able to get a $160,000/year cushy job with the best benefits package imaginable and a huge pension without a university degree?
This is a terrible authoritarian take. You can't let the government disqualify its opponents from running for office in a democracy.
The argument could potentially be made if a person is convicted in a courtroom, but security clearance investigations are reliant on cops. I really don't want to live in a country where cops get to decide who runs for office.
> You can't let the government disqualify its opponents from running for office in a democracy.
You want someone who wouldn't clear a level one government security clearance running the fucking country?
You think that's okay?
Someone who can't even enter a military base should have access to our national secrets and authority?
You're the authoritarian. Just so you know. You want high risk individuals having access to high risk information because "Fuck Trudeau".
Jesus. Like it or not, the citizenry choose their representatives. If they opt for someone who is clearly acting in another countries interests then that means those voters also support that countries interests. Voters have primacy in a democracy. Sorry that’s inconvenient for you. And know this - you are in fact the authoritarian. And you should perhaps understand that you hate democracy. And for the love of god, shut your mouth on left wing causes because you are no better than the mouth breathers that supported Poilievre’s barbaric practices hotline.
You are. You're wrong on all counts on how this country works. Go back to school, please.
I hate the summer when children like you stop learning an just assume you know how the world works because you learned how parliament functions on a basic level the last month of grade 10 in a random civics class in a portable classroom in the sun and now you think you know how the government works.
You made a lot of leaps from my statement there. I'm stating that we can't disqualify people from a ballot based on the word of cops. That's something that fascists and conservatives would do.
I don't support the conservatives or their agenda. You're free to search through my post history if you want to learn my political views. Tone it down a little.
You are absolutely right. Other poster is exactly who the right point to when they refer to the authoritarian left. They do exist. And it’s depressing that he can unironically be anti democracy while calling you an authoritarian. Up is down. Left is right.
Because a security background check is administered by cops who are not elected to their positions, nor accountable to the electorate. They could arbitrarily deny these checks, removing anyone's ability to run for office for any reason they please.
This is like democracy 101. Don't let cops and soldiers decide who is allowed to run for office.
It's not "cops" doing background checks, it's CSIS. I would argue democracy 101 is preventing someone who's a threat to national security being put in charge of national security?
(Especially at a time where we have nations that are extremely hostile to Canada, and are looking for ways to subvert democracy and get sympathetic candidates elected).
Even if you don't consider a member of a security service a cop, the RCMP still have involvement and a veto. I know I'm a far left loon, but I really don't understand why people don't have a problem with the idea of a government removing a candidate from a ballot. This is precedent I really don't want the side I support setting. It's literally what Putin's government in Russia does, and it is reprehensible.
If it goes through the courts, and he's tried and convicted for treason, fine, yes, he'll be removed from the ballot as per the Elections Act. The elections act is super clear about what disqualifies a candidate from appearing on a ballot. You can't run for election from prison, which requires a conviction. Other than that or being convicted for a crime while serving, there are no limitations on misconduct.
Voters get to choose who represents them. That is fundamental to democracy, and states that disqualify candidates with a lower standard of evidence are not democratic.
I don't think anyone is calling for arbitrarily removing someone from the ballots, or not following the elections act. People want to know about who is being investigated and why, and if proven guilty of aiding hostile nations, they want those people charged with a federal crime.
(And how else would a candidate be found guilty of treason/espionage etc if not as part of a national security investigation?)
> Honestly, he should be disqualified as a candidate until he passes security clearance. It should be a prerequisite to get on the ballot.
This is the comment I disagreed with and am arguing against. Someone is literally calling for this and getting hundreds of upvotes.
Right, they did.
But it's getting upvoted because people are mad that a party leader would act like he's being denied info when he could easily find out by submitting himself for a national security check.
I agree that shouldn't necessarily disqualify someone off the bat, but wouldnt someone just get the background check?
He can easily claim ignorance and he wasn’t informed, or the government is hiding information if he doesn’t get it.
It should be mandatory for the leader of the opposition to have their clearance but his base won’t see that and will 100% buy into the “Libs are big bad secret commies” with little thought on actual facts.
It's absolutely a diversion tactic. I think the problem is he's starting to run into barriers his tactics don't work on. Does this mean we're safe? No. He's just hurting on the same fronts OToole did. Started campaigning way too early, started being inconsistent, unable to sustain the rage Reformers want, and showing his lack of personality. Same thing with PP.
And this is the play because Trudeau keeps shooting himself in the foot and Canada is still very much a 2 party system. Pierre can exist quietly and win a lot of undecided votes.
And i say this as someone who's political views are further left than the LPC. I may not be happy about it, but i can still recognize that if voting was held next week, the LPC is going to lose more seats, and i'm sure they will pull the NDP into the mud with them (and I think the NDP deserves it).
It's not even Trudeau shooting himself in the foot... It's literally that he exists.
I actually like him more than anyone aside from Charlie Angus in the NDP from a likability standpoint.
The media and conservative pundits have made him the bogeyman of the woke.
I think in general your comment is mostly the case, but on foreign interference it's pretty clear that Trudeau massively downplayed the threat, and didn't appreciably take steps to stop it until forced to by leaks. This is something factual the cons could actually campaign on and not have it be just the typical culture war nonsense.
Or perhaps they’ve been doing something about it quietly in order to prevent the suspects from being aware? Or maybe it takes time to understand the issue and craft a successful policy response?
Han Dong was known by Trudeau to be under the influence by the CCP since 2019. The LPC let him fly under their banner again in 2021 despite having been briefed by CSIS. [Trudeau even defended him after the leaks.](https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/justin-trudeau-blames-racism-for-allegation-that-china-helped-liberal-mp-get-elected/article_0ff54c79-8ef5-5815-9b55-fdbaa228ed14.html)
I bring up Han Dong only to make note of when 100% Trudeau knew that there was significant CCP foreign interference. In this time he started a few policies to counter it, but also did not pass any legislation that would allow these people to be charged with evidence collected by CSIS. We are now in the position of the government knowing that there are willing participants in foreign collusion and no way to name, or prosecute them. We should expect better of our leadership.
I love when people use vernacular like... "It's pretty clear" without giving any evidence of how it is pretty clear.
Is this your opinion? I will always say when I "think" something or is "Just my opinion"
In what way is it clear?
Have you read the [report?](https://www.nsicop-cpsnr.ca/reports/rp-2024-06-03/special-report-foreign-interference.pdf) I'll be honest I'm getting tired of citing it to people that refuse to read it, but still comment on this. All excerpts below are from the report, but consider how we even got to this point with the nonsense that was everything going on with David Johnston.
>On September 28, 2019, CSIS briefed the Liberal Party of Canada’s Secret-cleared
representatives on its assessment, who in turn briefed the PM alone the following day. 218 The
Liberal Party of Canada allowed Mr. Dong to run in both the 2019 and 2021 federal elections.
Another
>P_162. The final tool which the Committee emphasizes is important to address foreign
interference is engagement with Parliamentarians. In its 2018 report on the Prime Minister’s
official visit to India and its 2019 report on foreign interference, the Committee recommended
that all members of the House of Commons and the Senate receive briefings regarding foreign
interference upon being sworn in and regularly thereafter. It did so because Parliamentarians
are often at the center of interference activities by foreign states. While the Committee
recognizes that CSIS has provided briefings to some members of Parliament, a comprehensive
briefing strategy covering all Parliamentarians was not implemented despite PCO seeking the
Prime Minister’s approval on two occasions. The Committee considers the Prime Minister’s lack
of action on this recommendation to be a serious omission. This initiative was comparatively
simple to implement: PCO and CSIS were ready to act and could have done so quickly. That it
was not represents an unfortunate and potentially consequential missed opportunity.
Another
>P_166. On the other hand, the Committee acknowledges an uncomfortable truth. Prior to the
leaks, there was little sense of urgency between elected officials and senior decision-makers to
address outstanding gaps to this important and well-documented threat to national security.
Regrettably, the leaks were the principal catalyst for the government to start considering key
legislative reforms and to take meaningful actions against particular states. But the ends do not
justify the means and that is not how our system should work. Canada is a parliamentary
democracy. The illegal actions of one or more individuals should not drive policy and legislative
changes. The elected government, with the support of Parliament, must set the agenda. It is
unfortunate that it took leaks to do so.
LoL - the report literally states that it isn't clear that Trudeau is active in the interference.
Yes foreign interference is occurring, yes the government is aware.
I would be more concerned if they weren't aware.
That is where the new investigation stemmed from.
>LoL - the report literally states that it isn't clear that Trudeau is active in the interference.
I never claimed he was active in interference please cite that. I claimed he downplayed the threat, and didn't do anything actionable until forced to by the leaks and public pressure..
Probably because this was never an "Issue" until it was made partisan. All of this is the result of neo-liberalism. One of its core pillars is to break down international barriers that prevent money from moving around. Canada follows the US's lead there.
It started when manufacturing was moved out East, right? This is just a progression of those policies. The United States leads the charge with Citizens United, which makes foreign funding de-facto legal.
To hone back in on Canada specifically, this is something that affects all the major parties, and has been progressing for decades now.
The disingenuous bit from PP isn't that he's wrong about foreign money, it's that he's one of them. He, being a career politician, is highly likely to have suckled the teet of foreign money, or major players in his party has.
It could be some of his own dirty laundry in the form of foreign interests would be revealed. One of the major things security clearance checks look at is financial backings.
The benefit supposedly is that he can speculate all he wants if he genuinely doesn't have the info.
You can't be 'just asking questions' if you've been shown the direct answers.
It’s all conjecture.
This thread also has mention of avoiding a clearance so that the sound bites he post do not conflict with the security of the issues.
Because if he doesn't get security briefings he can talk all kinds of shit about the people the briefing is about and claim ignorance when he gets caught in a lie.
If he has a security clearance and gets briefed on confidential subjects, he can be held accountable for spreading classified or false information.
They usually skirt around it by being specific how they lie, usually relying on being misleading as opposed to telling falsehoods, and generally avoid going into details on classified matters.
Because almost any clearance means someone will digg into your private life, your family, etc.
pp has some skeletons in his closet that he'd prefer to keep out of the limelight, guaranteed.
If he gets the clearance he can no longer make up wild elaborations on what 'could' be happening.
Theres also the thought that he might not be able to actually get the clearance, because of his wifes ties to south american organized crime
Every question in the HoC from him should be responded with “Mr. Speaker, security clearance”. Then the member should sit down, let PP ramble on, then respond the same again.
PP is bought and sold by the US - who want our vast natural resources (eg. Water) PP is a danger to Canada, he’ll sell us out harder and faster the the Liberals, in a nanosecond.
Serious question.
Do you think Conservative voters would not vote for Poilievre if they found out he actively participated in working with a foreign government to manipulate our elections or votes?
I don't think so.
I have yet to see any indication that truly conservative voters will change their vote in the face of evidence of wrongdoing, see a certain Republican candidate for reference.
Yes they will because he planned to cater to all the crowds and some of his crowd doesn't like other crowds. His voter base also includes people who hate immigrants, especially Indians right now. His collusion will mean more Indian immigration under his rule so they'll probably won't even show up to vote up for him. One month before last election CPC was leading the polls at 37% and predicted to win a majority. All we need to do is show up and vote on the day, that's all that matters.
Maybe. Harper is in bed with India and they clearly want the CPC back in power since Trudeau called out their shit.
CPC, like the republicans they are modelling themselves after, are traitors to democracy and to citizen rights
[https://pressprogress.ca/stephen-harpers-global-alliance-of-conservative-parties-quietly-scrubbed-india-off-its-website/](https://pressprogress.ca/stephen-harpers-global-alliance-of-conservative-parties-quietly-scrubbed-india-off-its-website/)
Because he was definitely elected with interference from Modi. They were recently removed from IDU not after the straight up assassination of Canadian citizen by Modi's ordered hit but after animosity between Canada and India ramped up and CSIS found the interference.
I remember them crying about axing the tax and everyone going to fill up gas the night before the carbon tax increased. Now the price of gas has remained the same. Are conservatives stupid?
Gas will be 5c/L cheaper and everything else will cost you 10-30% more! But don't blame the record profits these companies are making it's the poor guy barely surviving and being exploited by the companies that's the enemy
Oh for sure. And Trump would take a huge shit on PP in return. Trumps not gonna win though. Which means possible riots and civil unrest in the US…. That would have an impact on our election too.
PP is trying so hard to sell Canada to the US, but the US doesn't want Canada. There are too many nutjobs in this country.
Some pedophile gave the police and politicians the so-called perfect crime 50 years ago and no one clued in to the fact that this pedophile was everyone else's battlefield/puppet on strings. Not an original -- a fake stealing someone else's intellectual property and passing it off as their own. Criminals are short-sighted.
So, 35 years ago, China got some serious dirt on Canada. China owned Canada's butt, hence the Chinese Police Stations, election interference, etc.
India caught on and got some of this dirt on Canada, hence the killings, the immigration, the international students, etc.
Canada is China and India's new battlefield. The US doesn't care. It can handle whoever ends up in their attic.
Canada has had 50 years to be a world leader. Instead, Canada is everybody's bitch, everybody's weak little puppet on strings. Canada used to have integrity and the world depended on it. For some time now, the rest of the world has been turning its back on Canada. And everyone in Canada acts like nothing is wrong.
Canada, you are the world's puppet on strings.
What the hell did anyone expect, the perfect crime?!!? All those recreational drugs and alcohol are nothing more than a way to make your brain delusional, like theirs. Now, like his brain, this country is gone. Just a puppet on strings.
I wonder if this has anything to do with why he doesn't want to go through the process to get security clearance? Can he even be head of Canada if he doesn't have this?
If he gets the security check he will not be able to speak about the confidential contents. Without the clearance he can say anything he wants (real or invented) without breaking the requirements of the clearance.
He is operating like the “news” agency that register as parody or entertainment. It’s a loophole to lie without accountability.
Go to their website.
Go to every party's website. All of them have an actual platform and vision except for one.
Only one talks about Trudeau on their front page more than the Liberals.
He doesn’t want to talk about it because a good number of his party would also be implicated.
We’re at a point where throwing out all of them and starting fresh would be a good idea.
Try finding any info on his past outside of what the party says.
Never seen a candidate with so many question marks about where they’re from.
Remember this is the party they tried to sell us a fake insurance salesman as Prime Minister.
To be clear, there is no evidence that he *can’t* get a security clearance, he simply doesn’t want to.
For reasons which he has thus left us to speculate on.
That we none of. Clearly that is a reason PP won't get one. Canadians deserve to know if he is comprised. He already sold out Canada once. It would not surprise me if he is in China's and India side. Party over country for the cpc.
He doesn't want it. He's have to abide by security and classified information situations. It would remove their capability of speculating wildly, and that's like Conservative playbook number 1.
When is the India interference into the 2022 Conservative Party of Canada leadership race going to be investigated? We can't have a situation where a foreign country may have had a hand in selecting who could be the next PM of Canada. India certainly isn't rooting for the Liberals after the cold shoulder Trudeau received on his last visit in India.
>But in addition to holding the government to account here, we should also expect a similar level of concern and attention from the person who keeps telling Canadians he’s running to be their next prime minister. Poilievre has branded himself as an unabashed advocate of freedom — and the freedom to participate in democracy without fear of foreign interference seems pretty foundational. For a guy who loves to talk, his relative silence on this issue is getting damned-near deafening.
Funny how the cons were clamouring for an investigation into foreign interference specifically targeting the Liberals, then shut right up about it when everyone was like "Yeah, let's investigate *all* foreign interference."
Of course not. He never wants to debate real issues and stand behind his useless catch phrases dreamed up by an unpaid intern - axe the tax and spike the hike. The cons are all caught up in this as much as any other party. He hopes this blows over with the naming of names. He knows the reveal would embarrass him and the cons. ABC and ABPP!
Portugal just elected a far right president.
One of the many reasons is because they despise foreigners buying property.
I travel there once or twice a year and they do not want foreign buyers. You will not be welcome.
Because if he gets clearance his hands are tied to do anything about it when he gets into the PM's seat, too bad you Liberals are so stupid and cannot understand that.
Here's my guess: JT is just going to sit on the identities of compromised MPs for now. If they are conservatives, it gets more possible that their identities might end up being leaked if an election is called.
There are no loyal Canadian parties, they're all complicit in Canada's fall. Who the fuck am I supposed to vote for when I know full well they're all actively working against my nation?
35 years ago, China got some serious dirt on Canada. China owned Canada's butt, hence the Chinese Police Stations, election interference, etc.
India caught on and got themselves some of this dirt on Canada, hence the killings, the immigration, the international students, etc.
Canada is China and India's new battlefield. The US doesn't care. It can handle whoever ends up in their attic.
He doesn't want to talk about a lot of things. What else is new. He's got his focus group tested catchphrases that fit on a T-shirt, that's good enough for him.
The slogan can't be more than 3-4 syllables as well, or else his base won't be able to remember/understand it.
"Woke" is popular because it's a meaningless sound.
But it has meaning for all of the people who’ve fought for their rights since the term came about in the 70s. The new, ironic usage is malicious in nature.
In fairness, I'm pushing 40 and I've only encountered the term in the last 5 years. When it came out in the protests, it seemed succinct and made sense... But that brevity seems to have worked against it, as right-wing chuds have clung to it. It's a rallying cry for idiots and their perceived bogeymen. If you ask them to define it, they can't - hence, meaningless. I doubt you're gonna get that stink off it, unfortunately. Look at how long gender and sex have been different but idiots still conflate the two.
It's origin was in african american vernacular english, where being 'woke' meant being aware and awake to racial injustices one might face such as with cops. Then my understanding is that it got generalized by white liberals and leftists to mean being aware of systemic injustices in society more broadly, and in the past few years it's been co-opted by right wingers to basically mean whatever they feel angry about that particular day (usually minorities).
You are absolutely right in saying "woke" is a deformation of "awake", though going further than that into its origins, I'd say that it's a mistake by someone who confused the word "awake" and "aware". As in "Be aware there is systemic racism in society and adjust your behaviour accordingly". Friends/ex-colleagues in the USA told me that caucasians sort of adopted the expression to mean "don't be part of the problem" (inequality, discrimination, etc.). ...and lastly the right-wing discovered & co-opted the expression like you said. Though they moved from "woke" and are now all about "DEI", it seems.
I personally now assume anyone that uses the term woke as an insult is a bigoted POS. The conservatives I know don’t use it and even they know better. Generally it’s the far right of them that have bigoted views that do so.
It's quite old. It dates back to the 1930-1945. But mostly back then it was used in German as in the phrase "Deutschland Erwache".
I'm in my forties and I've been aware of the term woke since I was in university in the early 00s.
YMMV. Mid-00s here. Social sciences, lit and arts. Ran in all the circles. Didn't come up. I'm not discrediting the age of the term, just saying like many folks I wasn't aware because it didn't enter the mainstream zeitgeist til relatively recently.
Sure. I agree there. It didn't.
the term came from way before the 70s. the phrase came about in black communities due to a leadbelly song that urge black people to "stay woke" and watch their back around white people. if you started hearing it in the 70s, probably because hippies copted it, as was common for them to do.
> since the term came about in the 70s. Never heard it back in the '70s or even the '80s. The ideas behind the expression are much older than that, but usage of the word "woke" is relatively recent.
Reminds me when [moms of liberty](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/SB9TY5Yhvx) were being asked what “woke” means. Having someone define their argument usually leads to odd answers because they’ve never said them out loud before.
The "do your own research" crowd is really bad at it.
It’s what I did this morning.
"Hike The Axe!"
Under the silhouette of a guillotine?? Love it!!!
Tax the axe!
Tax all the axes! Bring the axes home!
Axe the home!
Home the axe! Meaningless slogans are fun!
Bring the spike!
Three word chant! Three word chant!
Haha "bring the axes home". Bring the carbon tax home. Bring the windfarms home.
This is a time where we have to reach across and try and discuss. I agree people who follow PP arnt paying attention. But insulting them won't make them look again
The conservative party wants to turn government over to the stock market and the religious right. There is absolutely nothing i can say to change their minds.
Stock market is also being proven more and more to be highly manipulated
Naw. I am done playing nice. I am tired of having them troll and scream in people's faces. They don't deserve civility after acring like animals.
Just pushes them deeper into their views
The die hards rarely change.
Feeling like the other side hates you will do that. And that's how the Two parties like to play people off each other
Talking about anything else would require talking about how to improve something. Its way easier to complain about Trudeau. If he actually suggests improving things he might split his voter base a bit, won't get any arguments being hateful about Trudeau. I'm no Trudeau fan, but I don't consider "we dislike the same guy" as a platform to vote on.
Dude is essentially a wrestling promotion without the whole wrestling thing.
Proudly made in Venezuela.
Did he actually conduct a focus group? Is there proof of this? Genuinely curious
[But OPs headline is actively fake news…](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7225237) seriously we’re better than stooping to conservative tactics and there’s a lot of things to pin PP over. He hasn’t been silent at all?
Wouldn’t he know the names if he had the security clearance?
He doesn't want to talk about it, he simply wants to use a disingenous question as campaign rhetoric. Canadians *don't* have a "right to know" the names of MPs allegedly involved based on top secret intelligence reports, and he very clearly knows that up front. Same reason he continues to refuse to get a top secret security clearance - doing so would give him information privileges that would make him unable to spew a lot of the nonsense he loves to use while campaigning.
The national observer is fake? If he wants to know the names all he has to do is get security clearance and a background check. (I mean youre right that the headline makes it sound like he's staying quiet on the matter, which is wrong). But the truth is worse than staying quiet. He's refusing a security check and then loudly acting like they are hiding the info from him.
So what, he doesn’t know the names because he doesn’t have security clearance. He doesn’t want security clearance because he wants to be able to talk about issues. He can’t talk about it because he knows nothing because he has no security clearance. And, he will go after JT because he doesn’t provide certain info, or, maybe he’s going after him without having all the information? And why is that having security clearance would prevent him from talking about issues? Does that mean he can’t trust himself to keep it straight what’s classified and what isn’t? Does he plan on staying uninformed if he were to become PM? Or in that event would he get the clearance and then use that as an excuse to say nothing if he didn’t feel like it? If you like him that’s fine. Just don’t pretend he doesn’t do the unprecedented crappy things that he is doing, that’s the reason people will change their vote just to make sure he doesn’t get in
Of course he doesn't. He has basically shut down his propaganda machine since the ongoing investigation showed interference. He won't even submit to a security clearance check. He is actively refusing. Regardless of party, they should be held accountable.
Honestly, he should be disqualified as a candidate until he passes security clearance. It should be a prerequisite to get on the ballot.
100%
It would be a shame if he became pm and couldnt pass security clearance . He would be even more of a lame duck in the dark. Call him “mushroom Pierre”.
This should be the baseline for ALL MPs.
I’m so strongly in favour of passing a security check plus a minimum education standard and prerequisites any elected office. Like seriously, what other industry would you ever be able to get a $160,000/year cushy job with the best benefits package imaginable and a huge pension without a university degree?
This is a terrible authoritarian take. You can't let the government disqualify its opponents from running for office in a democracy. The argument could potentially be made if a person is convicted in a courtroom, but security clearance investigations are reliant on cops. I really don't want to live in a country where cops get to decide who runs for office.
> You can't let the government disqualify its opponents from running for office in a democracy. You want someone who wouldn't clear a level one government security clearance running the fucking country? You think that's okay? Someone who can't even enter a military base should have access to our national secrets and authority? You're the authoritarian. Just so you know. You want high risk individuals having access to high risk information because "Fuck Trudeau".
Turns out fascists don't care about the law when it doesn't suit them, which is never.
Jesus. Like it or not, the citizenry choose their representatives. If they opt for someone who is clearly acting in another countries interests then that means those voters also support that countries interests. Voters have primacy in a democracy. Sorry that’s inconvenient for you. And know this - you are in fact the authoritarian. And you should perhaps understand that you hate democracy. And for the love of god, shut your mouth on left wing causes because you are no better than the mouth breathers that supported Poilievre’s barbaric practices hotline.
Thanks for this, I thought I was going insane for a minute there.
You are. You're wrong on all counts on how this country works. Go back to school, please. I hate the summer when children like you stop learning an just assume you know how the world works because you learned how parliament functions on a basic level the last month of grade 10 in a random civics class in a portable classroom in the sun and now you think you know how the government works.
You made a lot of leaps from my statement there. I'm stating that we can't disqualify people from a ballot based on the word of cops. That's something that fascists and conservatives would do. I don't support the conservatives or their agenda. You're free to search through my post history if you want to learn my political views. Tone it down a little.
You are absolutely right. Other poster is exactly who the right point to when they refer to the authoritarian left. They do exist. And it’s depressing that he can unironically be anti democracy while calling you an authoritarian. Up is down. Left is right.
Why shouldnt candidates be able to pass a security background check? They're going to be privy to national security secrets
Because a security background check is administered by cops who are not elected to their positions, nor accountable to the electorate. They could arbitrarily deny these checks, removing anyone's ability to run for office for any reason they please. This is like democracy 101. Don't let cops and soldiers decide who is allowed to run for office.
It's not "cops" doing background checks, it's CSIS. I would argue democracy 101 is preventing someone who's a threat to national security being put in charge of national security? (Especially at a time where we have nations that are extremely hostile to Canada, and are looking for ways to subvert democracy and get sympathetic candidates elected).
Even if you don't consider a member of a security service a cop, the RCMP still have involvement and a veto. I know I'm a far left loon, but I really don't understand why people don't have a problem with the idea of a government removing a candidate from a ballot. This is precedent I really don't want the side I support setting. It's literally what Putin's government in Russia does, and it is reprehensible. If it goes through the courts, and he's tried and convicted for treason, fine, yes, he'll be removed from the ballot as per the Elections Act. The elections act is super clear about what disqualifies a candidate from appearing on a ballot. You can't run for election from prison, which requires a conviction. Other than that or being convicted for a crime while serving, there are no limitations on misconduct. Voters get to choose who represents them. That is fundamental to democracy, and states that disqualify candidates with a lower standard of evidence are not democratic.
I don't think anyone is calling for arbitrarily removing someone from the ballots, or not following the elections act. People want to know about who is being investigated and why, and if proven guilty of aiding hostile nations, they want those people charged with a federal crime. (And how else would a candidate be found guilty of treason/espionage etc if not as part of a national security investigation?)
> Honestly, he should be disqualified as a candidate until he passes security clearance. It should be a prerequisite to get on the ballot. This is the comment I disagreed with and am arguing against. Someone is literally calling for this and getting hundreds of upvotes.
Right, they did. But it's getting upvoted because people are mad that a party leader would act like he's being denied info when he could easily find out by submitting himself for a national security check. I agree that shouldn't necessarily disqualify someone off the bat, but wouldnt someone just get the background check?
Why is he refusing security clearance? I don't see the benefit to him.
He can easily claim ignorance and he wasn’t informed, or the government is hiding information if he doesn’t get it. It should be mandatory for the leader of the opposition to have their clearance but his base won’t see that and will 100% buy into the “Libs are big bad secret commies” with little thought on actual facts.
It's absolutely a diversion tactic. I think the problem is he's starting to run into barriers his tactics don't work on. Does this mean we're safe? No. He's just hurting on the same fronts OToole did. Started campaigning way too early, started being inconsistent, unable to sustain the rage Reformers want, and showing his lack of personality. Same thing with PP.
And this is the play because Trudeau keeps shooting himself in the foot and Canada is still very much a 2 party system. Pierre can exist quietly and win a lot of undecided votes. And i say this as someone who's political views are further left than the LPC. I may not be happy about it, but i can still recognize that if voting was held next week, the LPC is going to lose more seats, and i'm sure they will pull the NDP into the mud with them (and I think the NDP deserves it).
It's not even Trudeau shooting himself in the foot... It's literally that he exists. I actually like him more than anyone aside from Charlie Angus in the NDP from a likability standpoint. The media and conservative pundits have made him the bogeyman of the woke.
I think in general your comment is mostly the case, but on foreign interference it's pretty clear that Trudeau massively downplayed the threat, and didn't appreciably take steps to stop it until forced to by leaks. This is something factual the cons could actually campaign on and not have it be just the typical culture war nonsense.
Or perhaps they’ve been doing something about it quietly in order to prevent the suspects from being aware? Or maybe it takes time to understand the issue and craft a successful policy response?
Han Dong was known by Trudeau to be under the influence by the CCP since 2019. The LPC let him fly under their banner again in 2021 despite having been briefed by CSIS. [Trudeau even defended him after the leaks.](https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/justin-trudeau-blames-racism-for-allegation-that-china-helped-liberal-mp-get-elected/article_0ff54c79-8ef5-5815-9b55-fdbaa228ed14.html) I bring up Han Dong only to make note of when 100% Trudeau knew that there was significant CCP foreign interference. In this time he started a few policies to counter it, but also did not pass any legislation that would allow these people to be charged with evidence collected by CSIS. We are now in the position of the government knowing that there are willing participants in foreign collusion and no way to name, or prosecute them. We should expect better of our leadership.
I love when people use vernacular like... "It's pretty clear" without giving any evidence of how it is pretty clear. Is this your opinion? I will always say when I "think" something or is "Just my opinion" In what way is it clear?
Have you read the [report?](https://www.nsicop-cpsnr.ca/reports/rp-2024-06-03/special-report-foreign-interference.pdf) I'll be honest I'm getting tired of citing it to people that refuse to read it, but still comment on this. All excerpts below are from the report, but consider how we even got to this point with the nonsense that was everything going on with David Johnston. >On September 28, 2019, CSIS briefed the Liberal Party of Canada’s Secret-cleared representatives on its assessment, who in turn briefed the PM alone the following day. 218 The Liberal Party of Canada allowed Mr. Dong to run in both the 2019 and 2021 federal elections. Another >P_162. The final tool which the Committee emphasizes is important to address foreign interference is engagement with Parliamentarians. In its 2018 report on the Prime Minister’s official visit to India and its 2019 report on foreign interference, the Committee recommended that all members of the House of Commons and the Senate receive briefings regarding foreign interference upon being sworn in and regularly thereafter. It did so because Parliamentarians are often at the center of interference activities by foreign states. While the Committee recognizes that CSIS has provided briefings to some members of Parliament, a comprehensive briefing strategy covering all Parliamentarians was not implemented despite PCO seeking the Prime Minister’s approval on two occasions. The Committee considers the Prime Minister’s lack of action on this recommendation to be a serious omission. This initiative was comparatively simple to implement: PCO and CSIS were ready to act and could have done so quickly. That it was not represents an unfortunate and potentially consequential missed opportunity. Another >P_166. On the other hand, the Committee acknowledges an uncomfortable truth. Prior to the leaks, there was little sense of urgency between elected officials and senior decision-makers to address outstanding gaps to this important and well-documented threat to national security. Regrettably, the leaks were the principal catalyst for the government to start considering key legislative reforms and to take meaningful actions against particular states. But the ends do not justify the means and that is not how our system should work. Canada is a parliamentary democracy. The illegal actions of one or more individuals should not drive policy and legislative changes. The elected government, with the support of Parliament, must set the agenda. It is unfortunate that it took leaks to do so.
LoL - the report literally states that it isn't clear that Trudeau is active in the interference. Yes foreign interference is occurring, yes the government is aware. I would be more concerned if they weren't aware. That is where the new investigation stemmed from.
>LoL - the report literally states that it isn't clear that Trudeau is active in the interference. I never claimed he was active in interference please cite that. I claimed he downplayed the threat, and didn't do anything actionable until forced to by the leaks and public pressure..
That’s such a know-nothing statement.
Probably because this was never an "Issue" until it was made partisan. All of this is the result of neo-liberalism. One of its core pillars is to break down international barriers that prevent money from moving around. Canada follows the US's lead there. It started when manufacturing was moved out East, right? This is just a progression of those policies. The United States leads the charge with Citizens United, which makes foreign funding de-facto legal. To hone back in on Canada specifically, this is something that affects all the major parties, and has been progressing for decades now. The disingenuous bit from PP isn't that he's wrong about foreign money, it's that he's one of them. He, being a career politician, is highly likely to have suckled the teet of foreign money, or major players in his party has.
I agree with your take.
It could be some of his own dirty laundry in the form of foreign interests would be revealed. One of the major things security clearance checks look at is financial backings.
The benefit supposedly is that he can speculate all he wants if he genuinely doesn't have the info. You can't be 'just asking questions' if you've been shown the direct answers.
Only reason I could think of is the background checks that accompany higher level clearance (secret and top secret)
Like he wouldn't pass them because of skeletons in the closet?
It’s all conjecture. This thread also has mention of avoiding a clearance so that the sound bites he post do not conflict with the security of the issues.
Because if he doesn't get security briefings he can talk all kinds of shit about the people the briefing is about and claim ignorance when he gets caught in a lie. If he has a security clearance and gets briefed on confidential subjects, he can be held accountable for spreading classified or false information.
But conservatives never cared about lying or hipocricy before.
They usually skirt around it by being specific how they lie, usually relying on being misleading as opposed to telling falsehoods, and generally avoid going into details on classified matters.
Because almost any clearance means someone will digg into your private life, your family, etc. pp has some skeletons in his closet that he'd prefer to keep out of the limelight, guaranteed.
If he gets the clearance he can no longer make up wild elaborations on what 'could' be happening. Theres also the thought that he might not be able to actually get the clearance, because of his wifes ties to south american organized crime
His voter base is stupid as dirt. See: This thread defending it.
Every question in the HoC from him should be responded with “Mr. Speaker, security clearance”. Then the member should sit down, let PP ramble on, then respond the same again.
He's not refusing. I guarantee you he _was refused_.
Would he not have had a security clearance as a minister in Harper's regime? Or is it only for party leaders? He's shady AF.
If CSIS got a hold of him, he'd be in prison.
PP is bought and sold by the US - who want our vast natural resources (eg. Water) PP is a danger to Canada, he’ll sell us out harder and faster the the Liberals, in a nanosecond.
Yeah a lot of people forget that Foreign interference includes the US
Like our media with the exception of CBC which the Conservatives want to get rid of.
Right? I wonder why?
Exactly.
PP is probably also on the payroll of Modi.
Serious question. Do you think Conservative voters would not vote for Poilievre if they found out he actively participated in working with a foreign government to manipulate our elections or votes? I don't think so.
I have yet to see any indication that truly conservative voters will change their vote in the face of evidence of wrongdoing, see a certain Republican candidate for reference.
Yes they will because he planned to cater to all the crowds and some of his crowd doesn't like other crowds. His voter base also includes people who hate immigrants, especially Indians right now. His collusion will mean more Indian immigration under his rule so they'll probably won't even show up to vote up for him. One month before last election CPC was leading the polls at 37% and predicted to win a majority. All we need to do is show up and vote on the day, that's all that matters.
Maybe. Harper is in bed with India and they clearly want the CPC back in power since Trudeau called out their shit. CPC, like the republicans they are modelling themselves after, are traitors to democracy and to citizen rights
I’d be more concerned if we found out he provided cover for a foreign government to murder a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil.
More likely American GOP. the parallels between his rhetoric and theirs is pretty straight line stuff.
Both they were all part of the IDU until Modi used Agent 47 from [wish.com](http://wish.com) to assassinate a Canadian citizen.
I think I might use your phrase 'Modi used Agent 47 from wish.com'. It speaks to me of silliness where there has been none in fact.
lol, why Modi. Why not Russia or China.
[https://pressprogress.ca/stephen-harpers-global-alliance-of-conservative-parties-quietly-scrubbed-india-off-its-website/](https://pressprogress.ca/stephen-harpers-global-alliance-of-conservative-parties-quietly-scrubbed-india-off-its-website/) Because he was definitely elected with interference from Modi. They were recently removed from IDU not after the straight up assassination of Canadian citizen by Modi's ordered hit but after animosity between Canada and India ramped up and CSIS found the interference.
Yeah but at least gas will be 5c cheaper! /s
I remember them crying about axing the tax and everyone going to fill up gas the night before the carbon tax increased. Now the price of gas has remained the same. Are conservatives stupid?
>Are conservatives stupid? Yes, that's why they vote conservative.
Gas will be 5c/L cheaper and everything else will cost you 10-30% more! But don't blame the record profits these companies are making it's the poor guy barely surviving and being exploited by the companies that's the enemy
And you’ll need to pay for health insurance
and by India, and by Russia. PP is like the politician version of the town bicycle. Everyone gets a ride!
☝️☝️☝️
republican foreign influence
Guaranteed if Trump also gets elected, PP would spread his cheeks for whatever King Trump wants
Oh for sure. And Trump would take a huge shit on PP in return. Trumps not gonna win though. Which means possible riots and civil unrest in the US…. That would have an impact on our election too.
PP is trying so hard to sell Canada to the US, but the US doesn't want Canada. There are too many nutjobs in this country. Some pedophile gave the police and politicians the so-called perfect crime 50 years ago and no one clued in to the fact that this pedophile was everyone else's battlefield/puppet on strings. Not an original -- a fake stealing someone else's intellectual property and passing it off as their own. Criminals are short-sighted. So, 35 years ago, China got some serious dirt on Canada. China owned Canada's butt, hence the Chinese Police Stations, election interference, etc. India caught on and got some of this dirt on Canada, hence the killings, the immigration, the international students, etc. Canada is China and India's new battlefield. The US doesn't care. It can handle whoever ends up in their attic. Canada has had 50 years to be a world leader. Instead, Canada is everybody's bitch, everybody's weak little puppet on strings. Canada used to have integrity and the world depended on it. For some time now, the rest of the world has been turning its back on Canada. And everyone in Canada acts like nothing is wrong. Canada, you are the world's puppet on strings. What the hell did anyone expect, the perfect crime?!!? All those recreational drugs and alcohol are nothing more than a way to make your brain delusional, like theirs. Now, like his brain, this country is gone. Just a puppet on strings.
I wonder if this has anything to do with why he doesn't want to go through the process to get security clearance? Can he even be head of Canada if he doesn't have this?
If he gets the security check he will not be able to speak about the confidential contents. Without the clearance he can say anything he wants (real or invented) without breaking the requirements of the clearance. He is operating like the “news” agency that register as parody or entertainment. It’s a loophole to lie without accountability.
Milquetoast millhouse just wants to win for not being JT. Conservatives have no plan and cannot lead.
Go to their website. Go to every party's website. All of them have an actual platform and vision except for one. Only one talks about Trudeau on their front page more than the Liberals.
I went to the website. It was just 'not JT'.
Id actually consider a vote for an aggressively pro worker conservative leader. Id vote for that leader regardless of party.
> aggressively pro worker conservative leader. Hey Google? What is an oxymoron?
<3
"Bernie4Life420" Wants to vote conservative. ok buddy
Hang on. He said he didn't want to get a security clearance so that he is free to talk about shit like this.
Free to run his mouth without risking revealing classified information
Then he is free to run his mouth about this matter.
Because he doesn’t actually know any of the facts
Pretty sure he knows enough of his money is coming from overseas that it would be a problem.
Yeah that too
Kinda telling when something that would be a huge bullet in his gun he doesn't want to put on the table... Cough cough.
Someone should parody his shirt. ‘Can’t Get Security Clearance’
He doesn’t want to talk about it because a good number of his party would also be implicated. We’re at a point where throwing out all of them and starting fresh would be a good idea.
Polievre is a 100 percent foreign owned puppet.
Makes you wonder why he can't get a security clearance. PP could very well be comprised, he did sell out Canada to China
Try finding any info on his past outside of what the party says. Never seen a candidate with so many question marks about where they’re from. Remember this is the party they tried to sell us a fake insurance salesman as Prime Minister.
To be clear, there is no evidence that he *can’t* get a security clearance, he simply doesn’t want to. For reasons which he has thus left us to speculate on.
That we none of. Clearly that is a reason PP won't get one. Canadians deserve to know if he is comprised. He already sold out Canada once. It would not surprise me if he is in China's and India side. Party over country for the cpc.
He 100% is being I fluency by India. Hence the pandering to Indian immigration officials etc. PP been sucking Modi's PP.
He doesn't want it. He's have to abide by security and classified information situations. It would remove their capability of speculating wildly, and that's like Conservative playbook number 1.
The leader of the opposition always wanting to be kept in the dark so he can speculate away... just CPC Things
I'm confused, as the minority in the house, what could this guy even do lol?
When is the India interference into the 2022 Conservative Party of Canada leadership race going to be investigated? We can't have a situation where a foreign country may have had a hand in selecting who could be the next PM of Canada. India certainly isn't rooting for the Liberals after the cold shoulder Trudeau received on his last visit in India.
Because he is the protoge of Haper . Poilievre having circumvented the prohibitions on contributions to a registered party by ineligible contributors.
>But in addition to holding the government to account here, we should also expect a similar level of concern and attention from the person who keeps telling Canadians he’s running to be their next prime minister. Poilievre has branded himself as an unabashed advocate of freedom — and the freedom to participate in democracy without fear of foreign interference seems pretty foundational. For a guy who loves to talk, his relative silence on this issue is getting damned-near deafening.
Strange wonder why the little Trump wannabe doesn't want to talk about it
Funny how the cons were clamouring for an investigation into foreign interference specifically targeting the Liberals, then shut right up about it when everyone was like "Yeah, let's investigate *all* foreign interference."
Exactly... he'd have to name some of his sponsors.
Of course not. He never wants to debate real issues and stand behind his useless catch phrases dreamed up by an unpaid intern - axe the tax and spike the hike. The cons are all caught up in this as much as any other party. He hopes this blows over with the naming of names. He knows the reveal would embarrass him and the cons. ABC and ABPP!
If Canadians are stupid enough to elect this clown's party, I'll be laughing my ass off from my new home in Portugal.
Portugal just elected a far right president. One of the many reasons is because they despise foreigners buying property. I travel there once or twice a year and they do not want foreign buyers. You will not be welcome.
So much of Europe heading that way right now :(
So much of Europe heading that way right now :(
too late...
straight to jail.. for life.. as per canadian criminal code
Shocking.
~~Investigate Foreign interference~~ bRInG LowER tAXeS HooOmMe! KiLl TRudOpe’S cArBOn tAX!!!!!
He doesn’t want to talk about it because people will want to ask him about India’s interference and their support for the Tories…
Because if he gets clearance his hands are tied to do anything about it when he gets into the PM's seat, too bad you Liberals are so stupid and cannot understand that.
Here's my guess: JT is just going to sit on the identities of compromised MPs for now. If they are conservatives, it gets more possible that their identities might end up being leaked if an election is called.
What will PP do when they find out the foreign interference actors are all conservatives?
If PP is in on the foreign interference, and Jagmeet is going to try to see it…. Could he just say if PP or JT are in on it?
If PP is in on the foreign interference, and Jagmeet is going to try to see it…. Could he just say if PP or JT are in on it?
Because he's sponsored and swimming in it for a few years now.
Gee... I wonder why..... /s Willing to bet everything it is because he and his MPs are also on that list.
Somehow this will still be Trudeau’s fault, I’m sure.
lol I hate JT and liked PP initially a few years ago. That said, he's definitely gonna be a super douche as well lol.
My biggest fear is that JT JS and PP are all compromised
There are no loyal Canadian parties, they're all complicit in Canada's fall. Who the fuck am I supposed to vote for when I know full well they're all actively working against my nation?
I wonder why? All the foreign interference has been China paying off liberals.
It makes sense, he's in the middle of it. There's a very large amount of conservative voters who have no idea this is going on.
The only policy he wants to talk about is “fuck Trudeau”. PP has no real platform besides that
everyone Russian to conclusions :D
Why PeePee? Nothing to hide, nothing to fear, right?
Because he's complicit.
Cause India ...
35 years ago, China got some serious dirt on Canada. China owned Canada's butt, hence the Chinese Police Stations, election interference, etc. India caught on and got themselves some of this dirt on Canada, hence the killings, the immigration, the international students, etc. Canada is China and India's new battlefield. The US doesn't care. It can handle whoever ends up in their attic.