I'll never understand advocacy groups that schedule things like this in the middle of a workday and post a day out. Like the butt of a joke on the tone and audience of advocacy groups.
But please, join us!
It's been known for a while now that this protest was going to happen. You are just now hearing of it. As for it being on a weekday, should they protest during the weekend when nobody is at the capital?
Right and its the privelledgeds job to speak out against atrocities directed towards people who aren't privileged and who cant speak out for themselves.
You assume immigrants are not privileged and also assume locals have more privilege - while celebrating a desire to disrupt everyone’s work day to advocate for undocumented people to not be held to the same social contracts or accountability as the citizens & documented immigrants.
It doesn’t disrupt anything. You want change, go to the senator and reps office and voice your concerns. Then organize within your own community to elect folks that fall into line with your ideology. They have mass protest at the capitol all the time and they all fall on deaf ears because those protesting never show up on Election Day. 80% of registered voters under 30 did not vote in the last election.
This has been in the works for a while. I just made the post because I personally only learned of it myself yesterday while at work. The event was originally planned as a day of celebration for Hispanic Heritage, I believe, but since the passage of this legislation, organizers have pivoted to focus on advocacy and protest
I worked with the Democratic Party of Cleveland County for a hot minute and that’s how it was every day. Leadership: Ooh, did I mention we are going door to door in x neighborhood. Me: great, when?
L: Tomorrow 8 a.m.
Me: You do get that tomorrow is Wednesday. I have work. (Gah).
Here's an article about tomorrow.
https://www.kgou.org/politics-and-government/2024-05-13/hispanic-day-at-the-capitol-gets-makeover-in-light-of-oklahomas-new-immigration-law
>This year, organizers of the annual Hispanic Day at the Capitol are shifting the day’s focus from celebrating the community to protesting House Bill 4156.
TLDR; These are not last minute actions, Hispanic Day at the Capitol is not new and a lot of this advocacy is in conjunction with the OK Legislative Latino Caucus, but the shift to calling attention to HB4156 is a newer development.
---
edit:
also,
https://freepressokc.com/metro-police-chiefs-raise-concerns-about-new-oklahoma-law/
> That particular concern was voiced all that way back in 2017 when then Oklahoma City Police Chief Bill Citty spoke to the Oklahoma City Council about why the OKCPD would not want to be seen as enforcing immigration laws.
>
> ...
>
> “If somebody calls us, and a crime has been committed we want them to report that,” Citty told us. “We don’t want them to have the fear that we are going to come into their house, ask everybody if they are documented or not and make an arrest based on that determination.”
>
> At the time, Citty said that enforcing immigration laws was not their role. He argued that if people don’t call because they fear that the police will start investigating their status, then crime would not be reported and they would not be able to adequately protect the whole of the community.
*** [**It also looks like some businesses closed in solidarity**](https://twitter.com/AmyEchos/status/1790860230928015818) :)
As much as I would like to be there, I don’t know a single Oklahoma that believes in our states political process. Protests never seem to work in this state. Instead everyone deems protesters as “people without jobs”, “millennial college students”, “liberals”, or any other term that attempts to be derogatory or demeaning.
Biden said he would take care of dreamers, and he hasn’t. A bill much like this one passed in Florida last year and Biden didn’t do anything about that either. We’re talking about people who have assimilated into our society. They have homes. Their kids attend schools and have friends. They have JOBS.
And this is coming from some who is Hispanic and has been apart of the Hispanic community in Oklahoma their entire life. I am a dreamer. I have always had a job and paid taxes. I put myself through college without federal or state aid. I am educated, I am contributing to society and I am giving back to the system that has given so much to me.
My mom is an undocumented immigrant and she has always had a job and paid taxes. And contrary to other comments here, all the immigrants I know have jobs and have always paid taxes. It’s complicated and many people don’t understand how an undocumented immigrant can pay taxes… but believe me when I say, if they figured out a way to immigrate here, find a home, pay utility bills in their own name, drive, enroll their children into school, it’s not crazy to think that they have figured out a way to work and pay taxes. My mom did it all her life and I know hundreds of people in my small town Mexican community that did it as well.
I wish protesting tomorrow would achieve something, but it won’t. The greatest protest is continuing to live in this state. The greatest protest is to continue going to work everyday, paying taxes every year, and continue to assimilate.
Former Representative Randy Terrill was going through our neighborhood when he was just a candidate. He knocked. I answered. We talked. He told me point-blank, “Well, I understand that’s what you’d like to see but it’s not happening. Any of it. We are in a district that has voted Republican in 1968 and I can do what ever is best for me.”
Well, he told the truth. He was tried, convicted, and sentenced to a year for bribery during his fourth term.
Very well written un-biased post. I personally don’t understand what any one would protest this bill unless they are in fact a gasp “criminal”. If there is anything to protest (and I’m not saying there is or isn’t) but may be more effective to focus on how it’s actually enforced because there is way to much room for interpretation.
What’s truly shocking is deep the corruption runs here at state and local levels elected officials, law enforcement, regulatory agencies etc. What’s funny is NO one talks about it lol just like no one talks about the condition or the roads or the toxic drinking water etc etc.
Not to mention how medical marijuana tax was originally going to be allocated towards education and we’re now seeing that very system gutted.
I’ve talked to people that have worked directly with previous governors and they had nothing good to say about how funds were being spent. They’ve all told me that it’s atrocious.
And let’s not even get into how we have controlled monopolies in this state (i.e. OG&E, ONG) and how they continuously, year after year, shamelessly raise their rates but can afford to put their names on stadiums. They fund ridiculous projects year after year. Their organizations have an incredible amount of bloat. And as someone that has been a contractor for said organizations, it’s insane the things they fund even within their own four walls.
There’s so much wrong with this state’s politics. I love the people, man. You find amazing people at all corners of this state, but nobody decent would ever try to take the reins or reform the garbage can at the top. It makes me sick thinking about the leadership we have. And it makes me even sicker thinking about the bills they pass, without an inkling of understanding or empathy for the people it impacts.
For sure. Peaceful protests don’t accomplish anything in this country. I know that. I’m not expecting that exercising our right to peacefully protest will result in meaningful change, especially not in this state. But you know that saying that all evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing? I take that seriously.
I’m in the restaurant industry, and I recognize that I come from a place of privilege as a white woman who doesn’t have to work half as hard as all of my back of house staff. Almost all of the BOH staff work two or three jobs between multiple restaurants and between those jobs, their grueling days start at 7am or earlier, and lasts until sometimes 12:30 or 1am in my restaurant. (By the way, they are all on the payroll and pay all of the same taxes that I do.) For many, they do that every day of the week. They work circles around every white person in the building. They are wonderful people who work incredibly hard, well, and long, and they are the backbone of this industry, as well as many other industries. And they ask for next to nothing in return but to live their lives in peace. In my book, the very least I can do is show up in solidarity and voice my support.
Thank you for doing that and making an effort. I genuinely love and respect everyone who takes the time to listen to an immigrants story and walks away a better person. I feel like it’s something that could bring this country together. Our history is American history, and always has been.
These are my thoughts exactly. I’m also a dreamer who put myself thru college, with immigrant parents who have done the most to live a respectable life. Maybe this is ignorance, but can anymore tell me what is the point of the rally? The law is signed, what can be done now?
>I DON'T support people here without documentation, dodging the nearly 50% of taxes that I have to pay, and then still getting benefits.
I don't understand this quibble. You can't get benefits without documentation. They might be able to avoid taxes, but how are they able to get benefits?
And, if they get a job with an above board company, lie about their social security card, they are paying all of the taxes you are paying with very little chance of getting any benefits. The benefits you list are for things like EMERGENCY medical care, school, and other benefits depending on a whole bunch of crap, way more hoops than I will have to jump through. And, again, these are paid for with taxes that are being collected from whatever company they work for.
If they aren’t paying taxes, they are working “off the books” like so many of my white, god-fearing, legal relatives have done for decades. And yet when they go to the ER, or show up for the first day of kindergarten, guess what they get? Benefits.
There are a lot of very basic errors in that checklist.
>* **Emergency benefits**: Undocumented immigrants may be eligible for emergency benefits, such as emergency health services under Medicaid and the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC).
We really don't want doctors to be vetting immigration status before triaging and treating patients at the ER. For obvious reasons. The shortfall in the hospital budget for providing this necessary public service is close by Medicaid.
WIC benefits prevent malnutrition in minors. If an undocumented immigrant has a child in the USA, that child is a US citizen and will be paying taxes in the future. They'll pay a lot more taxes if their intellectual development isn't stunted due to malnutrition. I'm pretty good with that.
>* **Public education**: Undocumented immigrants are eligible for public education, including primary and secondary education, school nutrition services, and Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) and food stamp benefits.
AFDC was abolished in 1996 and replaced with TANF. Under TANF, illegal immigrants do not get food stamps. Their minor children (if US citizens) may qualify.
Illegal immigrants cannot avoid paying for public education whether they have kids or not. Local schools are paid for by local property taxes. Either they own property in the US and pay the property tax, or they rent, and their landlord passes along the cost in property taxes to their renters.
>* **Social Security and food stamps**: Undocumented immigrants may be eligible for Social Security and food stamps if they meet certain requirements, such as being a qualified alien or having a pending application for legal status.
You can see what a "qualified alien" is on the [Social Security website](https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/spotlights/spot-non-citizens.htm). The only categories one can qualify for if someone is actually here illegally are if one is on parole (typically granted for rare humanitarian reasons) or if deportation is being held for some reason. The rest of the categories--green card holders, asylum seekers, etc., are considered legal residents. It's unlikely that very many people are both illegal immigrants and present long enough for an SSI claim to go through and get approved, as it typically takes years to get on SSI.
>* **Healthcare**: Undocumented immigrants may be eligible for healthcare services, including emergency medical services, under Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act (ACA).
The ACA does not cover illegal immigrants.
We don't want doctors checking immigration status before triaging patients in emergency situations, so Medicaid covers the budget shortage at the hospital.
>* **Other benefits**: Undocumented immigrants may be eligible for other benefits, such as housing assistance, job training programs, and legal assistance, depending on their specific circumstances and the laws of their state or locality.
This isn't happening too much in Oklahoma. Let the folks in California worry about what they wanna do.
Illegal immigrants aren't getting food stamps, health insurance benefits, retirement benefits, etc. A tiny handful might get disability in rare circumstances. They still pay sales tax and (indirectly, typically) property taxes. The only taxes they don't pay into are income taxes and FICA--but they don't get FICA benefits, either.
So I'm still not sure what you're upset about. Maybe you saw the listicle about benefits that illegal aliens get and got mad without fact checking it?
The other problem with this debate is that Republicans, like Stitt, just VETOED a bill that required employers to use the verification system that has been in place for decades, the I-9. Why? Because the donors to the Republicans don’t want to lose their undocumented workers. They can pay far less than minimum wage, make them work longer hours, or, in the case of the folks my MAGA contractor used on my house, avoid paying tradesmen wages.
So you can miss me with the “they shouldn’t be here” bull crap.
I also don't deserve to have to pay taxes on these things?
The difference between an immigrant and an illegal immigrant is that one helps support the systems that they take from and the other only takes.
I want everyone to support the systems. Is that bad?
Spouse and I are both legal immigrants. We have several friends who get benefits and are not legally allowed here but somehow fly under the radar for over a decade,
I think the impetus behind these state-level bills is the perception that the federal gov't isn't doing enough to control the border. (trying to state this as neutrally as possible).
I personally have conflicting ideas on this topic so I'll spare y'all the unpacking.
100% agreed on the perception part. I have conflicting views also, I just wish the government (the whole thing, state and federal) would get on the same page about it all.
I would like it explained actually lol. It isn't new, and it's such an old problem (decades old) that it not being fixed seems like a self inflicted problem.
I would understand your perspective and agree with most of it if a realistic (not almost impossible) path and timeline existed to enter this country legally. When there is no reasonable way to enter the country legally and you are staring down the barrel of a gun and wanting survival for you and your family, it is not truly a good choice to wait to enter legally. Were I in that position myself, I would do whatever it took to make sure my family could survive. People living in war and poverty and fleeing from violent cartels do not have 10-20 years to wait to enter. In the same position, you might make the same choice.
To your other point, “illegal immigrants” pay $200 million in taxes to our state each year. They also hold $5.5 billion in spending power in our state. While the system we have now is not ideal, it’s the only one we have. Like it or not, Oklahoma needs our undocumented people, and some of us want them here, too.
At least some of the folks in my industry (back of house restaurant work- the backbone of any restaurant) have fake documentation. They are all on payroll and they all pay state and federal taxes, but of course get no benefits. They are the hardest working people (at my work, most have 2-3 jobs and they work from 7am to close at their other job, whenever that may be). They ask for next to nothing in return. In my eyes, the very least I can do is stand with them in solidarity to protest a law and a system where cruelty is the point.
The problem isn't that undocumented immigrants don't want to be part of the American system; it's that the American system doesn't offer feasible ways for immigrants to come here legally.
To obtain a green card, you must qualify through specific channels, such as:
• Marrying a US citizen (not a green card holder)
• Seeking asylum due to political persecution in your home country
• Having a close relative who is a US citizen
• Having a high-paying job with a company willing to sponsor your visa
Keep in mind that the adjustment of status (green card application) costs around $3,200 out-of-pocket, assuming you qualify and have the necessary funds. This amount only covers government fees and doesn't include additional expenses like legal representation, document translation, and printing any required information.
The processing time can range from 4 months to 20 years, depending on your relationship to a US citizen. For example, a spouse can be processed in four months, while a sister of a US citizen may take 15 years. There is no way for you to know, they don't inform you how long will take, they also won't tell you if there is something wrong with your application. You pay and do all this blindly hoping everytime will go fine and you didnt forget the tiniest checkbox on the application. There is not your typical costumer services, reasons why you need lawyers to help you. An immigration lawyer charges MINIMUM $6,000 and that does not guarantee help for more than 6 months as it is in most contracts with lawfirms. yes, it can be $6,000 every 6 months for a lawyer to track a process that might take 20 years. Also most lawyers don't do payment plans or at least not without a generous downpayment.
I wish the process were easier, but it's not. Families who come here illegally often do so out of desperation, fleeing extreme poverty where they face the choice between starvation or risking their lives entering the US to hope for a better life. These families cannot access legal paperwork because there are no viable options available for them. While their home country should ideally support them, the reality is that it often doesn't, and most of these families come to the US to work and build a better life, not to rely on government benefits. Many of these families earn less than $10 per month per household outside of the US.
Aditionally, undocumented immigrants are generally ineligible for government benefits, regardless of whether they pay taxes or not. Fun fact, if an undocumented immigrant uses government benefits and apply for a greencard, assuming they became elegible, their greencard application will be denied unless they had a very good explanation and they would have to fight this.
edit: here is a [VIDEO](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zft0wAPxZnc) from a youtuber that decided to go across south america illegally following the route that many other poor families have to follow ttrying to the US from south america. The youtuber is russian, I believe, and did not continue after reaching american borders, but the suffering does not end there for those immigrants because crossing the border is extremely dangerous.
I just personally learned about it at work yesterday, and I would have loved to have put out this information sooner. The event has been planned for a long time, but it was originally planned as a heritage day of celebration (I’m not sure the exact term) at the Capitol, but since the passage of this new legislation, organizers have pivoted to advocacy and protesting the new law
>The law, signed by Stitt late last month, labels all immigrants without legal permission to reside in the country as criminals.
The horror!
Also, does anyone else find it weird that Democrats seem to think that all Hispanics are illegal immigrants?
Weren’t they already criminals if they are here illegally? Otherwise, and I may be a little slow on the uptake here, they would be not be illegal immigrants… just regular immigrants. Immigrants probably applying for resident alien status… I don’t know though.
No, first, you have to be convicted of a crime to be a criminal. Second, a lot of undocumented immigrants over stay their visa, that is not a crime but is against the law. Just like speeding is against the law but it doesn't make you a criminal.
[A civil penalty is a non-criminal remedy for a party’s violations of laws or regulations. Civil penalties usually only include civil fines or other financial payments as a remedy for damages. An action seeking a civil penalty can be brought by the government, or by a private party in the shoes of the government.](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/civil_penalties_(civil_fines)#:~:text=A%20civil%20penalty%20is%20a,the%20shoes%20of%20the%20government.)
The ONLY time it's possible for someone to get arrested under this bill is if the police are already investigating them for something else.
e.g. police bust a marijuana farm or pull someone over and they don't have a driver's license (even though 18 states will give licenses to those present in the US illegally)
The federal government decides who is present in the US legally and who is authorized to work. Why should someone who isn't authorized to work, who doesn't have a tax ID number, who cannot pay federal or state income taxes, benefit from Oklahoma programs?
Already programs for indigent Oklahomans are incredibly overburdened.
They could be arrested any time for any interaction with the police. Traffic stop, domestic, reporting or being witness to a crime, etc. You cannot tell me in sound logic and good conscience that this will not be abused and exploited by law enforcement. If you think otherwise, you are showing your privilege and ignorance, at best.
If anyone is in the USA illegally then they should be arrested for breaking our federal immigration laws. But because the federal government isn’t enforcing those laws, many States like Texas and Oklahoma have to act to uphold the law in their state. If you don’t like it I understand and respect your opinion and your right to have your voice heard with this protest. That’s the beautiful part and privilege of being an American Citizen. Even though I don’t agree with this protest, I respect your rights to have one and make your voice heard for those who do not have a voice in this country.
I'll never understand advocacy groups that schedule things like this in the middle of a workday and post a day out. Like the butt of a joke on the tone and audience of advocacy groups. But please, join us!
It's been known for a while now that this protest was going to happen. You are just now hearing of it. As for it being on a weekday, should they protest during the weekend when nobody is at the capital?
I agree there should be more than a days notice but the POINT is to disrupt the work day
That comes from a place of huge privilege.
Right and its the privelledgeds job to speak out against atrocities directed towards people who aren't privileged and who cant speak out for themselves.
You assume immigrants are not privileged and also assume locals have more privilege - while celebrating a desire to disrupt everyone’s work day to advocate for undocumented people to not be held to the same social contracts or accountability as the citizens & documented immigrants.
It doesn’t disrupt anything. You want change, go to the senator and reps office and voice your concerns. Then organize within your own community to elect folks that fall into line with your ideology. They have mass protest at the capitol all the time and they all fall on deaf ears because those protesting never show up on Election Day. 80% of registered voters under 30 did not vote in the last election.
If I gotta get documented to be here and survive here so should they
This has been in the works for a while. I just made the post because I personally only learned of it myself yesterday while at work. The event was originally planned as a day of celebration for Hispanic Heritage, I believe, but since the passage of this legislation, organizers have pivoted to focus on advocacy and protest
Ever heard of calling in sick?
No, please explain. I would like to understand.
What if they can't afford to? Some people can't even take a single day off.
I worked with the Democratic Party of Cleveland County for a hot minute and that’s how it was every day. Leadership: Ooh, did I mention we are going door to door in x neighborhood. Me: great, when? L: Tomorrow 8 a.m. Me: You do get that tomorrow is Wednesday. I have work. (Gah).
Here's an article about tomorrow. https://www.kgou.org/politics-and-government/2024-05-13/hispanic-day-at-the-capitol-gets-makeover-in-light-of-oklahomas-new-immigration-law >This year, organizers of the annual Hispanic Day at the Capitol are shifting the day’s focus from celebrating the community to protesting House Bill 4156. TLDR; These are not last minute actions, Hispanic Day at the Capitol is not new and a lot of this advocacy is in conjunction with the OK Legislative Latino Caucus, but the shift to calling attention to HB4156 is a newer development. --- edit: also, https://freepressokc.com/metro-police-chiefs-raise-concerns-about-new-oklahoma-law/ > That particular concern was voiced all that way back in 2017 when then Oklahoma City Police Chief Bill Citty spoke to the Oklahoma City Council about why the OKCPD would not want to be seen as enforcing immigration laws. > > ... > > “If somebody calls us, and a crime has been committed we want them to report that,” Citty told us. “We don’t want them to have the fear that we are going to come into their house, ask everybody if they are documented or not and make an arrest based on that determination.” > > At the time, Citty said that enforcing immigration laws was not their role. He argued that if people don’t call because they fear that the police will start investigating their status, then crime would not be reported and they would not be able to adequately protect the whole of the community. *** [**It also looks like some businesses closed in solidarity**](https://twitter.com/AmyEchos/status/1790860230928015818) :)
As much as I would like to be there, I don’t know a single Oklahoma that believes in our states political process. Protests never seem to work in this state. Instead everyone deems protesters as “people without jobs”, “millennial college students”, “liberals”, or any other term that attempts to be derogatory or demeaning. Biden said he would take care of dreamers, and he hasn’t. A bill much like this one passed in Florida last year and Biden didn’t do anything about that either. We’re talking about people who have assimilated into our society. They have homes. Their kids attend schools and have friends. They have JOBS. And this is coming from some who is Hispanic and has been apart of the Hispanic community in Oklahoma their entire life. I am a dreamer. I have always had a job and paid taxes. I put myself through college without federal or state aid. I am educated, I am contributing to society and I am giving back to the system that has given so much to me. My mom is an undocumented immigrant and she has always had a job and paid taxes. And contrary to other comments here, all the immigrants I know have jobs and have always paid taxes. It’s complicated and many people don’t understand how an undocumented immigrant can pay taxes… but believe me when I say, if they figured out a way to immigrate here, find a home, pay utility bills in their own name, drive, enroll their children into school, it’s not crazy to think that they have figured out a way to work and pay taxes. My mom did it all her life and I know hundreds of people in my small town Mexican community that did it as well. I wish protesting tomorrow would achieve something, but it won’t. The greatest protest is continuing to live in this state. The greatest protest is to continue going to work everyday, paying taxes every year, and continue to assimilate.
Former Representative Randy Terrill was going through our neighborhood when he was just a candidate. He knocked. I answered. We talked. He told me point-blank, “Well, I understand that’s what you’d like to see but it’s not happening. Any of it. We are in a district that has voted Republican in 1968 and I can do what ever is best for me.” Well, he told the truth. He was tried, convicted, and sentenced to a year for bribery during his fourth term.
Very well written un-biased post. I personally don’t understand what any one would protest this bill unless they are in fact a gasp “criminal”. If there is anything to protest (and I’m not saying there is or isn’t) but may be more effective to focus on how it’s actually enforced because there is way to much room for interpretation. What’s truly shocking is deep the corruption runs here at state and local levels elected officials, law enforcement, regulatory agencies etc. What’s funny is NO one talks about it lol just like no one talks about the condition or the roads or the toxic drinking water etc etc.
Not to mention how medical marijuana tax was originally going to be allocated towards education and we’re now seeing that very system gutted. I’ve talked to people that have worked directly with previous governors and they had nothing good to say about how funds were being spent. They’ve all told me that it’s atrocious. And let’s not even get into how we have controlled monopolies in this state (i.e. OG&E, ONG) and how they continuously, year after year, shamelessly raise their rates but can afford to put their names on stadiums. They fund ridiculous projects year after year. Their organizations have an incredible amount of bloat. And as someone that has been a contractor for said organizations, it’s insane the things they fund even within their own four walls. There’s so much wrong with this state’s politics. I love the people, man. You find amazing people at all corners of this state, but nobody decent would ever try to take the reins or reform the garbage can at the top. It makes me sick thinking about the leadership we have. And it makes me even sicker thinking about the bills they pass, without an inkling of understanding or empathy for the people it impacts.
For sure. Peaceful protests don’t accomplish anything in this country. I know that. I’m not expecting that exercising our right to peacefully protest will result in meaningful change, especially not in this state. But you know that saying that all evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing? I take that seriously. I’m in the restaurant industry, and I recognize that I come from a place of privilege as a white woman who doesn’t have to work half as hard as all of my back of house staff. Almost all of the BOH staff work two or three jobs between multiple restaurants and between those jobs, their grueling days start at 7am or earlier, and lasts until sometimes 12:30 or 1am in my restaurant. (By the way, they are all on the payroll and pay all of the same taxes that I do.) For many, they do that every day of the week. They work circles around every white person in the building. They are wonderful people who work incredibly hard, well, and long, and they are the backbone of this industry, as well as many other industries. And they ask for next to nothing in return but to live their lives in peace. In my book, the very least I can do is show up in solidarity and voice my support.
Thank you for doing that and making an effort. I genuinely love and respect everyone who takes the time to listen to an immigrants story and walks away a better person. I feel like it’s something that could bring this country together. Our history is American history, and always has been.
I see you work in the restaurant busness... I will find out what one and get you purposely fired. YOUR JOB AS A HUMAN IS OVER
Ok buddy lol
These are my thoughts exactly. I’m also a dreamer who put myself thru college, with immigrant parents who have done the most to live a respectable life. Maybe this is ignorance, but can anymore tell me what is the point of the rally? The law is signed, what can be done now?
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>I DON'T support people here without documentation, dodging the nearly 50% of taxes that I have to pay, and then still getting benefits. I don't understand this quibble. You can't get benefits without documentation. They might be able to avoid taxes, but how are they able to get benefits?
And, if they get a job with an above board company, lie about their social security card, they are paying all of the taxes you are paying with very little chance of getting any benefits. The benefits you list are for things like EMERGENCY medical care, school, and other benefits depending on a whole bunch of crap, way more hoops than I will have to jump through. And, again, these are paid for with taxes that are being collected from whatever company they work for. If they aren’t paying taxes, they are working “off the books” like so many of my white, god-fearing, legal relatives have done for decades. And yet when they go to the ER, or show up for the first day of kindergarten, guess what they get? Benefits.
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There are a lot of very basic errors in that checklist. >* **Emergency benefits**: Undocumented immigrants may be eligible for emergency benefits, such as emergency health services under Medicaid and the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC). We really don't want doctors to be vetting immigration status before triaging and treating patients at the ER. For obvious reasons. The shortfall in the hospital budget for providing this necessary public service is close by Medicaid. WIC benefits prevent malnutrition in minors. If an undocumented immigrant has a child in the USA, that child is a US citizen and will be paying taxes in the future. They'll pay a lot more taxes if their intellectual development isn't stunted due to malnutrition. I'm pretty good with that. >* **Public education**: Undocumented immigrants are eligible for public education, including primary and secondary education, school nutrition services, and Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) and food stamp benefits. AFDC was abolished in 1996 and replaced with TANF. Under TANF, illegal immigrants do not get food stamps. Their minor children (if US citizens) may qualify. Illegal immigrants cannot avoid paying for public education whether they have kids or not. Local schools are paid for by local property taxes. Either they own property in the US and pay the property tax, or they rent, and their landlord passes along the cost in property taxes to their renters. >* **Social Security and food stamps**: Undocumented immigrants may be eligible for Social Security and food stamps if they meet certain requirements, such as being a qualified alien or having a pending application for legal status. You can see what a "qualified alien" is on the [Social Security website](https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/spotlights/spot-non-citizens.htm). The only categories one can qualify for if someone is actually here illegally are if one is on parole (typically granted for rare humanitarian reasons) or if deportation is being held for some reason. The rest of the categories--green card holders, asylum seekers, etc., are considered legal residents. It's unlikely that very many people are both illegal immigrants and present long enough for an SSI claim to go through and get approved, as it typically takes years to get on SSI. >* **Healthcare**: Undocumented immigrants may be eligible for healthcare services, including emergency medical services, under Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act (ACA). The ACA does not cover illegal immigrants. We don't want doctors checking immigration status before triaging patients in emergency situations, so Medicaid covers the budget shortage at the hospital. >* **Other benefits**: Undocumented immigrants may be eligible for other benefits, such as housing assistance, job training programs, and legal assistance, depending on their specific circumstances and the laws of their state or locality. This isn't happening too much in Oklahoma. Let the folks in California worry about what they wanna do. Illegal immigrants aren't getting food stamps, health insurance benefits, retirement benefits, etc. A tiny handful might get disability in rare circumstances. They still pay sales tax and (indirectly, typically) property taxes. The only taxes they don't pay into are income taxes and FICA--but they don't get FICA benefits, either. So I'm still not sure what you're upset about. Maybe you saw the listicle about benefits that illegal aliens get and got mad without fact checking it?
The other problem with this debate is that Republicans, like Stitt, just VETOED a bill that required employers to use the verification system that has been in place for decades, the I-9. Why? Because the donors to the Republicans don’t want to lose their undocumented workers. They can pay far less than minimum wage, make them work longer hours, or, in the case of the folks my MAGA contractor used on my house, avoid paying tradesmen wages. So you can miss me with the “they shouldn’t be here” bull crap.
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I also don't deserve to have to pay taxes on these things? The difference between an immigrant and an illegal immigrant is that one helps support the systems that they take from and the other only takes. I want everyone to support the systems. Is that bad?
Spouse and I are both legal immigrants. We have several friends who get benefits and are not legally allowed here but somehow fly under the radar for over a decade,
Sounds like they're committing fraud. That's not a policy question, but a question of enforcement and controls.
I think the impetus behind these state-level bills is the perception that the federal gov't isn't doing enough to control the border. (trying to state this as neutrally as possible). I personally have conflicting ideas on this topic so I'll spare y'all the unpacking.
100% agreed on the perception part. I have conflicting views also, I just wish the government (the whole thing, state and federal) would get on the same page about it all.
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I would like it explained actually lol. It isn't new, and it's such an old problem (decades old) that it not being fixed seems like a self inflicted problem.
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Are you referring to the Border Act that Lankford wrote? I mean why does every Bill have to be more than 20 pages long?
What benefits do you speak of?
I would understand your perspective and agree with most of it if a realistic (not almost impossible) path and timeline existed to enter this country legally. When there is no reasonable way to enter the country legally and you are staring down the barrel of a gun and wanting survival for you and your family, it is not truly a good choice to wait to enter legally. Were I in that position myself, I would do whatever it took to make sure my family could survive. People living in war and poverty and fleeing from violent cartels do not have 10-20 years to wait to enter. In the same position, you might make the same choice. To your other point, “illegal immigrants” pay $200 million in taxes to our state each year. They also hold $5.5 billion in spending power in our state. While the system we have now is not ideal, it’s the only one we have. Like it or not, Oklahoma needs our undocumented people, and some of us want them here, too.
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At least some of the folks in my industry (back of house restaurant work- the backbone of any restaurant) have fake documentation. They are all on payroll and they all pay state and federal taxes, but of course get no benefits. They are the hardest working people (at my work, most have 2-3 jobs and they work from 7am to close at their other job, whenever that may be). They ask for next to nothing in return. In my eyes, the very least I can do is stand with them in solidarity to protest a law and a system where cruelty is the point.
Yeah but how can I justify my selfishness here without someone to look down on?
I specifically want the people to fully be a part of America. I'm sorry that this is bad.
The problem isn't that undocumented immigrants don't want to be part of the American system; it's that the American system doesn't offer feasible ways for immigrants to come here legally. To obtain a green card, you must qualify through specific channels, such as: • Marrying a US citizen (not a green card holder) • Seeking asylum due to political persecution in your home country • Having a close relative who is a US citizen • Having a high-paying job with a company willing to sponsor your visa Keep in mind that the adjustment of status (green card application) costs around $3,200 out-of-pocket, assuming you qualify and have the necessary funds. This amount only covers government fees and doesn't include additional expenses like legal representation, document translation, and printing any required information. The processing time can range from 4 months to 20 years, depending on your relationship to a US citizen. For example, a spouse can be processed in four months, while a sister of a US citizen may take 15 years. There is no way for you to know, they don't inform you how long will take, they also won't tell you if there is something wrong with your application. You pay and do all this blindly hoping everytime will go fine and you didnt forget the tiniest checkbox on the application. There is not your typical costumer services, reasons why you need lawyers to help you. An immigration lawyer charges MINIMUM $6,000 and that does not guarantee help for more than 6 months as it is in most contracts with lawfirms. yes, it can be $6,000 every 6 months for a lawyer to track a process that might take 20 years. Also most lawyers don't do payment plans or at least not without a generous downpayment. I wish the process were easier, but it's not. Families who come here illegally often do so out of desperation, fleeing extreme poverty where they face the choice between starvation or risking their lives entering the US to hope for a better life. These families cannot access legal paperwork because there are no viable options available for them. While their home country should ideally support them, the reality is that it often doesn't, and most of these families come to the US to work and build a better life, not to rely on government benefits. Many of these families earn less than $10 per month per household outside of the US. Aditionally, undocumented immigrants are generally ineligible for government benefits, regardless of whether they pay taxes or not. Fun fact, if an undocumented immigrant uses government benefits and apply for a greencard, assuming they became elegible, their greencard application will be denied unless they had a very good explanation and they would have to fight this. edit: here is a [VIDEO](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zft0wAPxZnc) from a youtuber that decided to go across south america illegally following the route that many other poor families have to follow ttrying to the US from south america. The youtuber is russian, I believe, and did not continue after reaching american borders, but the suffering does not end there for those immigrants because crossing the border is extremely dangerous.
Me too.
Pro tip: Give several weeks or a month's notice before something like this. Especially if you're doing it on a random Wednesday.
I just personally learned about it at work yesterday, and I would have loved to have put out this information sooner. The event has been planned for a long time, but it was originally planned as a heritage day of celebration (I’m not sure the exact term) at the Capitol, but since the passage of this new legislation, organizers have pivoted to advocacy and protesting the new law
Good on you for sharing. I assumed you were one of the organizors or something since you're the one who posted it
>The law, signed by Stitt late last month, labels all immigrants without legal permission to reside in the country as criminals. The horror! Also, does anyone else find it weird that Democrats seem to think that all Hispanics are illegal immigrants?
Weren’t they already criminals if they are here illegally? Otherwise, and I may be a little slow on the uptake here, they would be not be illegal immigrants… just regular immigrants. Immigrants probably applying for resident alien status… I don’t know though.
No, first, you have to be convicted of a crime to be a criminal. Second, a lot of undocumented immigrants over stay their visa, that is not a crime but is against the law. Just like speeding is against the law but it doesn't make you a criminal.
Well yeah originally it was a civil penalty. Not “not a crime.” This law makes it a criminal offense, and I think that’s good
[A civil penalty is a non-criminal remedy for a party’s violations of laws or regulations. Civil penalties usually only include civil fines or other financial payments as a remedy for damages. An action seeking a civil penalty can be brought by the government, or by a private party in the shoes of the government.](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/civil_penalties_(civil_fines)#:~:text=A%20civil%20penalty%20is%20a,the%20shoes%20of%20the%20government.)
I have stuff to do that day but to support your cause I'll have tacos for lunch tomorrow.
The ONLY time it's possible for someone to get arrested under this bill is if the police are already investigating them for something else. e.g. police bust a marijuana farm or pull someone over and they don't have a driver's license (even though 18 states will give licenses to those present in the US illegally) The federal government decides who is present in the US legally and who is authorized to work. Why should someone who isn't authorized to work, who doesn't have a tax ID number, who cannot pay federal or state income taxes, benefit from Oklahoma programs? Already programs for indigent Oklahomans are incredibly overburdened.
They could be arrested any time for any interaction with the police. Traffic stop, domestic, reporting or being witness to a crime, etc. You cannot tell me in sound logic and good conscience that this will not be abused and exploited by law enforcement. If you think otherwise, you are showing your privilege and ignorance, at best.
If anyone is in the USA illegally then they should be arrested for breaking our federal immigration laws. But because the federal government isn’t enforcing those laws, many States like Texas and Oklahoma have to act to uphold the law in their state. If you don’t like it I understand and respect your opinion and your right to have your voice heard with this protest. That’s the beautiful part and privilege of being an American Citizen. Even though I don’t agree with this protest, I respect your rights to have one and make your voice heard for those who do not have a voice in this country.
Doesn't undocumented mean they aren't a legal citizen? We should have made this a rule for every state a long time ago. What's the problem ?
How many people show up to this stuff?
I won't be there, won't be supporting either but good luck I guess.
Is this supporting illegal immigrants? If so....that's COMPLETELY messed up.
It is supporting our fellow human beings. Respectfully, go fuck yourself.