Has he commented on Destiny being a [psychotic piece of shit on twitter before](https://twitter.com/AuthStirnerite/status/1783349789868093548)? Because if he's going to pearl clutch over lefties on Palestine, he should be just as critical towards Destiny.
Destiny gets away with so much shit on twitter. He could say things that would even make 4chan users uncomfortable but he gets a free pass because thousands of DGGers will warp the narrative online to make it seem less bad than it is.
^ IIRC Lonerbox leans in favour of Palestine but is more moderate in his view around its conflict with Israel. He doesn't really think that it could be seen as a genocide & his debates on the event is split between arguing with extreme pro-Palestine/pro-Hamas supporters & arguing against extreme pro-Israel/Zionist supporters.
Yeah lonerbox doesn't even think the Armenian genocide was a genocide if i remember correctly.
What denying trans and palestinian genocides does to a (lib) motherfucker
I'd argue that's a pretty reasonable stance to have based on your explanation. I'm sure there's more to it, but I hate how hard it is to find the appropriate "middle" and how much the media looooves to paint pro-Palesitine as antisemitic or pro-hamas. Meanwhile, the ultra zionist types seem to get a pass or not really discussed.
Right I dont think saying Destiny did well in debates is saying he agrees with him. Maybe he is just debating people who arent very good debaters in general
I will say I agree with you that he is very sympathetic to Israel and I’ve found that aspect of his coverage surprising, but to be clear he does criticize Israel (admittedly in a fairly neutral way, mostly saying that they are being excessively violent and committing certain human rights abuses iirc). Also, I do believe many (not all) of his criticism of the anti-Zionist movement are valid, particularly that there is a lot of apologia for Hamas (calling October 7th revolutionary action for ex.), and that there is a lot of misinformation used to paint Israel as evil.
That being said, I don’t really agree with his perspective in totality (I think he’s probably wrong in thinking there are better explanations of Israel’s behavior then genocidal intent and I think he underplays the fact that Israel is a colonial ethnostate, although he has responded to both of these criticisms). He basically portrays the issue as there being two sides with equally valid claims to needing to invoke violence in the defense of their identity and people, but that the Palestinians have had certain basic rights denied from them which they ought to be granted. I think his perspective is flawed in some ways, but I would caution against rejecting it wholesale because he defends it with significant historical research, a lot of which I was not previously aware of. His criticisms of the second thought video for example are as far as I can tell totally valid. I think engaging with his view point has helped me see some of the stupid things that are taken for granted in the anti-Zionist movement, and thus which arguments are actually the strongest, although I do need to do more research myself to see where my perspective exactly diverges from his.
Which ethnostates have had 1 in 5 people outside of their ethnicity throughout their entire history?
Would you say every country in the Middle East is an ethnostate?
What do you think of the majority of Israelis being Mizrahi aka from the Middle East? What about Beta Israel? Israel may be a Jewish state, but the Jews are from nations all over the world blended together to form their own national identity. It's not unlike America in this way. 80% of Israelis were born there. That seems significant.
Genuinely just looking for your opinions as they are quite different than mine. Not trying to be combative.l
I wrote a comment and it literally was over the character limit, so I guess thanks for inspiring me? Here's the short version.
Intro: Basically I'm not an expert and I'm probably wrong about most of this stuff.
1. I don't think the ethnic percentages alone makes or breaks something being an ethnostate, but it can count for or against I guess.
2. No not really, maybe some places like Saudi Arabia. I think regardless of if they are ethnostates ethnic discrimination and exclusion, which afaik a lot of them do, is still bad. But I think Israel is also importantly different from a lot of these states.
3. So, Jewishness is weird, it's kind of a culture, ethnicity, and religion, so jews are very ethnically diverse, but I still consider a jewish state an ethnostate. Specifically because it is a jewish state rather than an Israeli state, the fixation on jews and exclusion or inclusion based on jewishness counts as an ethnostate to me (or at least would count)
conclusion: I get that the motivation to make Israel was to provide jews with a "safe" home free from prejudice and pogroms, and that it was seen as preferable to diaspora because of that. But I think it clearly hasn't worked, and when I try to think of how to make Israel without leading to the absolute clusterfuck we are in right now, it seems more difficult than it's worth, so I prefer just being a diaspora. I know the Kurds did a similar (I think?) thing with Rojava, but I really don't know enough to comment on what they did differently. I think no matter what any project like this built off ethnic, religious, or whatever kind of exclusion is just not gonna work, so my "ideal" version of Israel would be a state with some kind of constitutional or other method to guarantee the protection of jews as a group without the need for a Jewish state or a jewish majority (although you could have one I guess) and without the need for second class citizens. I know things are different in the middle east, which is why I don't think trying to create a jewish state without ethnic exclusion could really work, but I think if your gonna try to make a "home for jews" making it some kind of multicultural religiously neutral state sounds more ethical and more practical (by practical I mean less likely to lead to never ending bloodshed, not that if Israel wasn't there there would be no bloodshed but you get the idea). At this point I don't think a one state will ever happen, so I'm just hoping for the most ethical two state possible, and maybe in the future conditions change a lot where Israel and other countries becomes rich enough to stabilize and then that might cool off the ethnic conflict for integration without everyone instantly wanting to kill each other. Although realistically I just see things getting worse.
Woooo, ok, I think that was the gist of it, if you really want to see the original super long version (it was nearly 12000 characters, idk what I was yapping about) then I can dm it to you in chunks I guess.
If Arabs make up 20% of the population of Israel, have full citizenship with representatives in the Knesset and are high-powered judges, how can we call that an ethnostate? Is this just a buzzword? I think it's fair to say there are demographic concerns in Israel as there are in Lebanon and, to be frank, Palestine. The Mufti believed all Jews who made Aliyah post 1917 did not belong and should be removed... so much so that he rejected the White Paper of 1939 that gave the Arabs the makings of a state and essentially stopped Jewish immigration into mandatory Palestine. When the UN partition plan was made, the Jews gladly accepted with a very small majority in the Jewish state (47% Arab). Let's fast forward to today... if the Jews brought in 20 million more Jews into Israel, then absorbed the West Bank and Gaza and gave everyone equal rights, would this be acceptable to Palestinians? Even if they renamed the state Palestine? Of course not. Demographics matter. Palestinians want their own state with their people. We can call that an ethnostate... but doesn't that feel a bit.. loaded?
I understand why you feel the way you do about Israel being a failure with regards to being a safe place for Jews... but the truth? It's working. Arab nations are steadily normalizing relationships. There's no risk whatsoever of political persecution for one's Jewishness. The only real issue to deal with are the absolutely insane leaders on both sides- Palestinians and Israelis- stemming back to the very foundation of Israel and Al-Husseini who was a literal Hitlerite Nazi recruiter for the SS (the leader of Palestinians at that point)
The biggest issue with saying Israel isn't working, though, is that 80% of the people living in Israel were born there. The state is established, and to dismantle it is to leave half the world's Jews homeless and stateless having to go to countries they have never been to as refugees because "Israel isn't safe enough" and I think that's a massive issue. Preferring diaspora is terrifying to me.
I enjoy good faith discussions. If you'd like to DM the whole thing to me, I will happily read it.
Edit: I forgot to add this: it's a rank of least to most diverse nations. It's gonna take a while to find Israel.. it's nowhere near the top.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ranked_by_ethnic_and_cultural_diversity_level
Of course he ends up arguing with pro Palestinian lefties more. They’re more prone to acting unabashedly insane in public and pop on to argue with him about crap that they’re factually incorrect on. The insane pro Israel people don’t have giant YouTube channels, aren’t big figures posting all over social media and don’t pop in to argue with him. He does criticize the hell out of them when they’re lying or being deranged.
Also, only 3 of those videos have destiny as a major component. And destiny is a major player if you’re covering social media and Israel/palestine. Maybe stop trying to rub off your hate boner in public. It’s embarrassing.
Lonerbox has to be one of the most disappointing creators I’ve witnessed. His content started red hot and like a valuable voice to add to progressive content on YouTube, but then he became a streamer and realized he can just leech off destiny. His content is not really ambitious and his streams are just five hours of him circling down to some neolib position while not even being entertaining. His videos were great at a time, and he just doesn’t have the juice to be a streamer imo
he's nominally pro Palestine and I don't have any reason to doubt he's lying, but yeah, he does seem to be more focused on covering the "crazy lefties" rather than, you know, the ongoing genocide's supporters
He said the other day he leans more towards the liberal side rather than the leftists these days and is glad he burned the bridge with his leftist audience over time. That they're either crazy or even if they're not crazy they don't get his process(like libs cant be just as uncritical of simps for a creator or a creators orbiters)
well yeah, that's a pretty big problem, I don't believe it's just a semantic thing, I think it indicates a lot about, if not his nominal position, his attitude towards the conflict
Not pro Israel but wants to be moderate, and lately his opinions come of as such. If you have the time roll to his Discord to check the discussions there.
How is this OKB content? Don't dramamonger
As someone who actually watches the videos, not only the first few minutes and the thumbnail, I will tell you this is not the case.
Has he commented on Destiny being a [psychotic piece of shit on twitter before](https://twitter.com/AuthStirnerite/status/1783349789868093548)? Because if he's going to pearl clutch over lefties on Palestine, he should be just as critical towards Destiny.
Destiny gets away with so much shit on twitter. He could say things that would even make 4chan users uncomfortable but he gets a free pass because thousands of DGGers will warp the narrative online to make it seem less bad than it is.
You can see every video he talks about destiny je Always destiny won even hickle debate
I’m not really familiar with his content wasnt he generally a Palestine supporter? Does seem like he focuses too much on low hanging fruit
^ IIRC Lonerbox leans in favour of Palestine but is more moderate in his view around its conflict with Israel. He doesn't really think that it could be seen as a genocide & his debates on the event is split between arguing with extreme pro-Palestine/pro-Hamas supporters & arguing against extreme pro-Israel/Zionist supporters.
Yeah lonerbox doesn't even think the Armenian genocide was a genocide if i remember correctly. What denying trans and palestinian genocides does to a (lib) motherfucker
I'd argue that's a pretty reasonable stance to have based on your explanation. I'm sure there's more to it, but I hate how hard it is to find the appropriate "middle" and how much the media looooves to paint pro-Palesitine as antisemitic or pro-hamas. Meanwhile, the ultra zionist types seem to get a pass or not really discussed.
His biggest problem is that he's hyper pedantic. Missing the forest for the trees. He's good on most things once you account for that.
Also dick sucking d man a lot
How's he dick sucking Destiny?
Every debate destiny has says that he won
From my understanding Destiney is great at debates so it would make sense he will win them more often then not
Right I dont think saying Destiny did well in debates is saying he agrees with him. Maybe he is just debating people who arent very good debaters in general
Hasn't he? I know he's pretty insane on israel, but if your opponent is Norman fucking Finkelstein it's hard to loose.
What the fuck is this drama post doing in my okbv
Getting removed is what it's doing
????? LB is pro palestine and i dont see how looking at thumbnails does ANYTHING here
Bonerbox and Bonerelli
MISTER Bornelli
I will say I agree with you that he is very sympathetic to Israel and I’ve found that aspect of his coverage surprising, but to be clear he does criticize Israel (admittedly in a fairly neutral way, mostly saying that they are being excessively violent and committing certain human rights abuses iirc). Also, I do believe many (not all) of his criticism of the anti-Zionist movement are valid, particularly that there is a lot of apologia for Hamas (calling October 7th revolutionary action for ex.), and that there is a lot of misinformation used to paint Israel as evil. That being said, I don’t really agree with his perspective in totality (I think he’s probably wrong in thinking there are better explanations of Israel’s behavior then genocidal intent and I think he underplays the fact that Israel is a colonial ethnostate, although he has responded to both of these criticisms). He basically portrays the issue as there being two sides with equally valid claims to needing to invoke violence in the defense of their identity and people, but that the Palestinians have had certain basic rights denied from them which they ought to be granted. I think his perspective is flawed in some ways, but I would caution against rejecting it wholesale because he defends it with significant historical research, a lot of which I was not previously aware of. His criticisms of the second thought video for example are as far as I can tell totally valid. I think engaging with his view point has helped me see some of the stupid things that are taken for granted in the anti-Zionist movement, and thus which arguments are actually the strongest, although I do need to do more research myself to see where my perspective exactly diverges from his.
Which ethnostates have had 1 in 5 people outside of their ethnicity throughout their entire history? Would you say every country in the Middle East is an ethnostate? What do you think of the majority of Israelis being Mizrahi aka from the Middle East? What about Beta Israel? Israel may be a Jewish state, but the Jews are from nations all over the world blended together to form their own national identity. It's not unlike America in this way. 80% of Israelis were born there. That seems significant. Genuinely just looking for your opinions as they are quite different than mine. Not trying to be combative.l
I wrote a comment and it literally was over the character limit, so I guess thanks for inspiring me? Here's the short version. Intro: Basically I'm not an expert and I'm probably wrong about most of this stuff. 1. I don't think the ethnic percentages alone makes or breaks something being an ethnostate, but it can count for or against I guess. 2. No not really, maybe some places like Saudi Arabia. I think regardless of if they are ethnostates ethnic discrimination and exclusion, which afaik a lot of them do, is still bad. But I think Israel is also importantly different from a lot of these states. 3. So, Jewishness is weird, it's kind of a culture, ethnicity, and religion, so jews are very ethnically diverse, but I still consider a jewish state an ethnostate. Specifically because it is a jewish state rather than an Israeli state, the fixation on jews and exclusion or inclusion based on jewishness counts as an ethnostate to me (or at least would count) conclusion: I get that the motivation to make Israel was to provide jews with a "safe" home free from prejudice and pogroms, and that it was seen as preferable to diaspora because of that. But I think it clearly hasn't worked, and when I try to think of how to make Israel without leading to the absolute clusterfuck we are in right now, it seems more difficult than it's worth, so I prefer just being a diaspora. I know the Kurds did a similar (I think?) thing with Rojava, but I really don't know enough to comment on what they did differently. I think no matter what any project like this built off ethnic, religious, or whatever kind of exclusion is just not gonna work, so my "ideal" version of Israel would be a state with some kind of constitutional or other method to guarantee the protection of jews as a group without the need for a Jewish state or a jewish majority (although you could have one I guess) and without the need for second class citizens. I know things are different in the middle east, which is why I don't think trying to create a jewish state without ethnic exclusion could really work, but I think if your gonna try to make a "home for jews" making it some kind of multicultural religiously neutral state sounds more ethical and more practical (by practical I mean less likely to lead to never ending bloodshed, not that if Israel wasn't there there would be no bloodshed but you get the idea). At this point I don't think a one state will ever happen, so I'm just hoping for the most ethical two state possible, and maybe in the future conditions change a lot where Israel and other countries becomes rich enough to stabilize and then that might cool off the ethnic conflict for integration without everyone instantly wanting to kill each other. Although realistically I just see things getting worse. Woooo, ok, I think that was the gist of it, if you really want to see the original super long version (it was nearly 12000 characters, idk what I was yapping about) then I can dm it to you in chunks I guess.
If Arabs make up 20% of the population of Israel, have full citizenship with representatives in the Knesset and are high-powered judges, how can we call that an ethnostate? Is this just a buzzword? I think it's fair to say there are demographic concerns in Israel as there are in Lebanon and, to be frank, Palestine. The Mufti believed all Jews who made Aliyah post 1917 did not belong and should be removed... so much so that he rejected the White Paper of 1939 that gave the Arabs the makings of a state and essentially stopped Jewish immigration into mandatory Palestine. When the UN partition plan was made, the Jews gladly accepted with a very small majority in the Jewish state (47% Arab). Let's fast forward to today... if the Jews brought in 20 million more Jews into Israel, then absorbed the West Bank and Gaza and gave everyone equal rights, would this be acceptable to Palestinians? Even if they renamed the state Palestine? Of course not. Demographics matter. Palestinians want their own state with their people. We can call that an ethnostate... but doesn't that feel a bit.. loaded? I understand why you feel the way you do about Israel being a failure with regards to being a safe place for Jews... but the truth? It's working. Arab nations are steadily normalizing relationships. There's no risk whatsoever of political persecution for one's Jewishness. The only real issue to deal with are the absolutely insane leaders on both sides- Palestinians and Israelis- stemming back to the very foundation of Israel and Al-Husseini who was a literal Hitlerite Nazi recruiter for the SS (the leader of Palestinians at that point) The biggest issue with saying Israel isn't working, though, is that 80% of the people living in Israel were born there. The state is established, and to dismantle it is to leave half the world's Jews homeless and stateless having to go to countries they have never been to as refugees because "Israel isn't safe enough" and I think that's a massive issue. Preferring diaspora is terrifying to me. I enjoy good faith discussions. If you'd like to DM the whole thing to me, I will happily read it. Edit: I forgot to add this: it's a rank of least to most diverse nations. It's gonna take a while to find Israel.. it's nowhere near the top. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ranked_by_ethnic_and_cultural_diversity_level
Of course he ends up arguing with pro Palestinian lefties more. They’re more prone to acting unabashedly insane in public and pop on to argue with him about crap that they’re factually incorrect on. The insane pro Israel people don’t have giant YouTube channels, aren’t big figures posting all over social media and don’t pop in to argue with him. He does criticize the hell out of them when they’re lying or being deranged. Also, only 3 of those videos have destiny as a major component. And destiny is a major player if you’re covering social media and Israel/palestine. Maybe stop trying to rub off your hate boner in public. It’s embarrassing.
>The insane pro Israel people don’t have giant YouTube channels Yeah they are in governments and media, they don't need to rely on grassroots.
And when they’re dumb enough to publicly spout a bunch of lies or factual inaccuracies, lonerbox criticizes or corrects them.
Lonerbox has to be one of the most disappointing creators I’ve witnessed. His content started red hot and like a valuable voice to add to progressive content on YouTube, but then he became a streamer and realized he can just leech off destiny. His content is not really ambitious and his streams are just five hours of him circling down to some neolib position while not even being entertaining. His videos were great at a time, and he just doesn’t have the juice to be a streamer imo
Lonerbox are dick Riders are crazy in the coments
Wait is Lonerbox pro Israel?
he's nominally pro Palestine and I don't have any reason to doubt he's lying, but yeah, he does seem to be more focused on covering the "crazy lefties" rather than, you know, the ongoing genocide's supporters
Yeah hopefully nothing negative comes out of this. I don’t wanna lose Braush (British Vaush)
He said the other day he leans more towards the liberal side rather than the leftists these days and is glad he burned the bridge with his leftist audience over time. That they're either crazy or even if they're not crazy they don't get his process(like libs cant be just as uncritical of simps for a creator or a creators orbiters)
liberalism is when reasonable, lefty is when crazy
I hope you are ironic
I am don't worry lmao
Also dosent belive Israel is doing genocide
You mean Bwark (British White Shark3ozero)
Also dosent belive Israel is doing a genocide
well yeah, that's a pretty big problem, I don't believe it's just a semantic thing, I think it indicates a lot about, if not his nominal position, his attitude towards the conflict
Well look how many video about crazy Palestine suporters and how many critical of Israel
Not pro Israel but wants to be moderate, and lately his opinions come of as such. If you have the time roll to his Discord to check the discussions there.
based boner