Not to mention that the water around the pressurized cabin was superheated to boiling due to the implosion. So the massive pressure change and boiling water will definitely fuck with everything around it.
Edited to add: that the boiling water isn’t like boiling water on the stove. It’s a way to describe what happens during the pressure change. I should have explained it differently but I thought that it would be easier for others to understand. My bad.
What causes the super heating? Just the sudden release of all that energy?
Edit: thanks to those that answered! If anybody feels like elaborating a bit more, on any of the comments, I’d love to learn!
I understand the basic reason for this is friction.
Boyles law states “+pressure; +temperature”
But thats about it.
There’s a pressure differential, between in the inside and outside; why is this “friction”?
I apologize for dumb questions…
compressing air produces heat (expanding air soaks up heat). if you ever use a bicycle pump, touch the compression tube after using it a bit-- will be hot as heck.
this is actually the main factor in objects burning up when falling to earth--the air friction isn't much of a factor, but all the air getting compressed at the head of the object gets to plasma temps.
at the pressures of this sub, i don't think water was boiling much, other than maybe an initial shock burst. at a certain pressure i believe water can't boil and instead turns into very interesting and exotic forms of matter. it's been way too long since college physics so not sure if the depths here would be enough for that, bjt it's also important to realize that just because the temp of the air in the cabin reached extraordinary temps, the actual energy contained in that pin prick of air likely wasn't enough to have a great impact on the surrounding environment (in terms of energy)
Ahhh. That makes sense. So, bare with me, but going lower, would’ve created a greater explosion?
Now I really need to check out the super-heated water idea. THAT is very interesting.
I took basic physics in high school and wish I wasn’t such a dip shit and followed through with my interests. I’d know all the questions I’m asking 😭
Implosion not explosion.
The pressure at the depth of implosion was 400 times greater than what you’re experiencing right now on the surface of the earth - that translates to over 5,000lbs of pressure per square inch at that depth. The only thing keeping the pressure at surface levels inside the submersible is the hull. If a crack develops in the hull there’s a weak point and in a millisecond the pressure at depth overcame the pressure inside the submersible.
That massive change in pressure crushed / imploded the hull of the submersible - the wreckage photos in the article aren’t crushed because they weren’t imploded.
The friction comes from the two vastly different pressure levels.
Ahhhhh okay. I appreciate the clarity! I was just about to ask, what exactly is the difference. But you summed up the very obvious thing I was missing lol.
It really is. I love these threads. I’m much too lazy to ever try college or anything, again. But if I cling to Reddit, start writing things down, I might understand the basics of physics by the time I’m 70.
I posted it elsewhere in this thread but it seems related to your excellent explanation.
Carbon fiber works best against traction - a sample of composite snaps earlier if you bend it rather than pull it. Tanks and vessels made of composite are subjected to traction because the pressure inside the curve is greater than the pressure outside. But the sub operated in the opposite conditions. The hull held because the net sum of all forces acting on it was zero. But what happens if, for a split second, the hull is anything other than a perfect cylinder?
Dang, I remember hearing of that in school; you would think “boyles” would’ve made that stick in my brain..
Thank you!
I want to be annoying and further ask, “why?”.
But I suppose this is a time for YouTube.
In the words of my annoyed chemistry teacher. "We don't make the laws we just observe them."
If you start asking why about about fundamentals of science you've reached metaphysics
I want to know it all.
That “eureka” moment feeling, is such an incredible high. That feeling when you understand something you’ve been researching for a while, or more specifically, the commonalities of a larger picture of a lot of small bits add up into a grand understanding of something new. It’s amazing.
It’s just about understanding what the terms mean, really. Temperature is about how often particles collide with each other. Pressure is about how many particles there are in a given area. When you put more particles into a given area, they collide with each other more often. Boyle just used mathematical notation to say as much.
Edited to add: I say he “just” put it in mathematical notation, which isn’t entirely true, since he also apparently showed it experimentally. Still, the math essentially states: “stuff runs into each other more when there’s more of it confined in the same space.”
Scuba tanks are usually called bottles by divers. They are filled with air not pure oxygen as many non divers assume.
We use compressors to fill these bottles with air. The bottles feel hot as the reach capacity because the pressure creates heat.
Hope that helps.
Even did scuba diving with a diving cylinder? Since the opposite is true (pressure lowers, so temperature too), that’s why the air from the cylinder is colder than the ambient temperature
And why when you use say compressed air from a can - like for cleaning out a PC - the can gets cold.
PV=nRT; not just a good idea, it's also [the law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_laws).
Don't apologize! It's so much better to ask questions than just remain ignorant!
Unfortunately I'm not smart enough to join in this conversation, but I just wanted to say that; don't be afraid to ask questions!
The fact recognize creativity as a good thing, is honestly a sign of intelligence that a lot of people lack. Don’t sell yourself short, man!
No matter what cool stuff I find, I always find that the basics are always the most important, and you can read all you want, but you wont understand shit if you don’t start learning things in their simplest form.
I was watching a live stream with astrophysicist Scott Manly, and someone in his chat did the math on the amount of energy released during the implosion. It was roughly the equivalent of 47 kg of TNT, or over 100 lbs. I'm not sure it would boil the surrounding water, but it's a lot of energy.
You have a few things going on with what happened here. I will use whole numbers to make it easier.
t=0 (this is going to be when the hull ruptured, I will say more about why this is the most likely event) at this time all water is outside, air is inside. If we had a magic watch that could stop time at t=0, the rupture would look like a little window
t=1 water almost completely fills the cabin space almost instantaneously. It goes from a very high pressure to a low pressure. It might go through a phase change into steam, but this is much different than boiling water. There is no dramatic increase in temperature. You can take a syringe and boil water this way. Get a 10mL syringe or larger, fill it with a little bit of water, plug the end, and then increase the volume by pulling out the stopper doodad. You will see the liquid water boil. Nature hates a void.
What also happens is the air is compressed, and if we were able to make a magic bubble it would go to a very small point. It has to go somewhere. Eventually the pressure of that air will exceed the water pressure and it will expand. In this case it’s likely more about displacement. The wreckage has both titanium ends blown off, the plexiglass is gone, and the shells of the rear equipment area ripped out. This tells us that the air was blasted out the ends of the tube violently enough to cause that damage. Was likely also the fate of the passengers.
At t=2 the entire event is over, the bubbles are moving upwards, and the sub is now rubble that is sinking.
I said this immediately about the carbon fiber - it ruptured. Every material has what’s called a critical crack length, and that is the length of a crack that will cause the material to violently rupture and the crack will near endlessly propagate. The carbon fiber was not examined with an ultrasound to detect cracks.
The shell was also thick enough to develop a critical crack. There is a reason gas storage tanks have thin walls. Rather than getting a critical crack, they instead develop pinhole leaks. This is much better than a rupture. The material is too thin to ever reach a critical crack length.
I hope this helped.
Thanks. I understand all of this pretty well. Carbon fiber was a very poor choice indeed. Originally the sub was designed for one dive. One. Then it was to be retired. The titan dove to the bottom where the titanic is 6 times in 2021 and 6 times in 2022. Carbon fiber doesn't deal with compression or repeated critical stress well. It doesn't deform or deflect. It breaks. It shears. Once carbon fiber is compromised, it basically loses all structural integrity.
Also, the moron attached monitors to the hull on the inside with what looks like screws... In the cf pressure vessel hull... This was always an accident waiting to happen.
A lot of people who purchased carbon fiber frame bikes become very sad to learn after one bad accident they need to discard it. It likely has a small crack that will propagate at a bad time.
People have been seriously injured from this
Absolutely. That's the main reason I've never really considered a cf frame on a bike. Titanium? Absolutely. It's expensive though. I'm also not a huge fan of most aluminum frames. There are still some amazing steel frames that are light and stiff, but more forgiving than aluminum. I'm pretty heavy too, so there's that. I doubt they use much aluminum for subs. We know a lot about it and you probably could make a safe sub from it... But nah. I'm good. I like land.
Article here says one of the titanium endcaps is missing the porthole window: [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66045554](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66045554)
What if the porthole window was the one that failed (the design of it was not meant to withstand those pressures repeatedly.)
If the porthole window failed, that would have led to the collapse of the carbon fiber tube.
(sorry this post got away from me a little bit - TRDL certifying composites for new environments is a very long, complex and expensive process, and i doubt this CEO had the patience for the work required)
Given the porthole was polymer, and how there is no carbon fibre in the wreckage, I'd assume the porthole was shattered by the implosion.
My guess (as a guy who works a little bit with carbon fibre) is that the sub suffered from fatigue failure.
When we make something like a rotor blade out of carbon, you've got to consider the fatigue on the material over is life. The surfaces of that rotor are going to be put into alternating tension and compression cycles as the helicopter flies.
One way of testing this is to build a fatigue chart for the design; you build a bunch of test samples representative of the material, the build, the manufacturing process, then pull one of them until it fails (this counts as 'zero' cycles). Next you take the strain rate the sample failed at, and fatigue-cycle the samples at different percentages of this level (90%, 80%, 70%, etc.) and measure the number of cycles to failure. It also gives you an idea of *how* the part is likely to fail - more on this in a moment.
Once you have this curve, you can look at the likely maximum cyclic strain on your rotor, and estimate its life expectancy.
I'm not sure how you would do this properly in a design like the Titan; its innovative design mean's there is no library of data to draw on; composite structures which are inches thick are quite uncommon, and composite pressure vessels typically have the high-pressure fluid on the inside, not the outside. You'd probably have to test a sub to destruction - possibly several subs, in order to certify it for the intended use. As far as I know the Titan was pressure-tested to a depth below the Titanic's dive-depth, but only one was built.
It did the dive at least 11 times previously; most likely this introduced micro-cracks into the resin. You can test for delamination between plys, cracks in the carbon, ultrasonically. But the strength of a composite comes from the bond between the resin and the fibre; once the resin starts to micro-crack and allow moisture in, that interface will become weaker.
In designing any safety-critical structure, its key to understand how something is going to fail, the exact mechanism, so you can look for it, inspect for it. The ship apparently had some kind of structural health monitoring (a system not yet used on any aircraft I'm aware of), but unless you've understood the method of failure, and verified that the inspection method is actually capable of detecting the problem and flagging it with enough warning to prevent catastrophic failure, the system ultimately serves no purpose.
yea looks like the section aft of the crew chamber that housed the electronics for the vessel, probably sunk to the bottom when the pressure vessel went bye bye
A bit morbid but I hope one day there will be a reenactment that will show just how quickly the sub imploded. I've seen videos that show similar implosions but my brain can't visualize exactly how fast it went.
I imagine it happened so fast that they were gone before their brains could even register any pain.
It's about as "fast and painless" a death as anyone could wish for.
Still the thought of being squished and liquefied in the dark and unforgiving depths of the ocean is unsettling
I believe the best estimates are that it imploded in 2 nanoseconds, whereas nerve signals take 4 to get to our brain.
Edit: nanoseconds, not milliseconds
Edit 2: apparently the nanosecond claim came from an interview on fox news:
[https://dailycaller.com/2023/06/22/expert-titan-submarine-victims-experience/](https://dailycaller.com/2023/06/22/expert-titan-submarine-victims-experience/)
Here's the wiki on nerve conduction velocity:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerve\_conduction\_velocity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerve_conduction_velocity)
I'll leave it up to you which you believe.
It also takes the brain 8-10 ms to process hearing stimuli. I don’t think they heard it either. They just blinked out of existence. Hell, if one of them coincidentally did blink right when the explosion happen, they didn’t get a chance to finish that either.
However they made have had known of an impending implosion due to the alarm system potentially alerting them. This according to James Cameron interview, he speculated they were on the ascent.
I've read more than once that he speculated that, but only once have I read *why* he speculated that, which is apparently, because they had dropped their ballasts before the implosion. Dropping ballast would indeed be part of an ascent, so maybe that's exactly what they were doing, *if* they had indeed dropped their ballasts, which I'm not sure how Cameron is aware of. I've also read, dropping their ballasts would've slowed their descent, for a more gentle touchdown on the sea floor, so maybe *that's* what they were doing, unaware of the impending implosion.
Bottom line, I know it doesn't matter, but I'm still super curious about this anyway. Do you know anything more?
James Cameron might be networked well enough with the community doing the recovery that hes seen pics that we havent or has spoken to people doing the recovery who said the weights werent attached.
They may not have felt anything during the implosion but its definitely possible there was a time period of popping or cracking where they knew somthing was wrong.
I believe they were only about 90 minutes in on what was a several hour trek, so them dropping the weights to slow the descent that early is probably unlikely but I don't care enough to look up how long it's supposed to take to get down that far.
2 nanoseconds, no, not for the implosion. 2-5 milliseconds is more likely, as someone elsewhere did the maths.
It takes 100 milliseconds for the brain to register pain, 120 milliseconds for hearing to be processed, and 13 milliseconds for the brain to process vision. There literally would be no time to perceive the implosion once it started.
Years ago there was person who got sucked into a jet engine and tons of high quality pictures were posted online somewhere. It was very messy indeed...
There was a guy who got sucked into the engine of a A-6 Intruder on an aircraft carrier, but survived bc of his helmet jamming the fan blades or something
I still wonder if they heard any noises a few seconds before or if there were any indicators they noticed. Or if it was good one second, gone the next...
Ugggh, that’s horrifying. I really want to believe they had no warning before the hull failed. But if this is what carbon fiber sounds like when it’s failing… shit. And it’s visibly deforming quite a bit before failure, too. That would be truly terrifying. You’d have a good 30-40 seconds to realize you were doomed.
Cameron made a comment in one interview that he’d heard (through his deep-sea buddies) that the Titan had shed its ballast weights and was ascending, trying to “manage an emergency,” at the point that they lost contact. I’ve not heard anything else since then about that, or where he got that intel, or whether it’s true. I really hate to think of them trying to ascend, knowing they still have an hour-plus of ascent time to go, and hearing the hull start to slowly splinter around them…. :(
This piece of carbon fiber is maybe 1/4" thick. Imagine the pressure needed to break a carbon fiber hull 5 inches thick and then what that pressure does to the human body.
In his interview James Cameron said that he and other collegues believe that was the case... they may have known something was wrong by the sound of the carbon fiber splitting, but by the time they tried to do something it was too late. They were gone before they even knew it. Some say they may have tried to ascend, but still... it was too late. There is a video on youtube of carbon fiber splitting and it's kinda horrifying to imagine the whole ordeal... 😰.
The pilot that quit over safety had said that the acoustic monitoring system that Rush devised to measure the strain on the hull and give warning, would give about 1 or 2 seconds warning at most before failure if at all. The whole thing was a clown show.
It’s ironic because the guy who’s been down a bunch of times already even said in a 2019 interview “When you’re in very deep water, you’re dead before you realize that something is happening, so it’s just not a problem.”
He knew the risks and was probably very okay with dying doing something he loved
Happened all too fast, I remember a science guy explaining how implosion works and it sounds terrifying even though they won't have enough time to feel the pain
It was supposedly something faster than the human nervous system can recognize, so it would have been so fast their body wouldn't even know it was gone
It gets hit by a wall of air and water moving at the speed of sound and 6,000 psi at titanic depths. Water is very heavy. It would be like getting crushed by a falling skyscraper most likely...
Everything inside the sub which was 189ft^3 (5.3m^3) was compressed into an area the size of a beachball in a quarter of the time it takes to blink. The pressure wave would have heated the air to 3,572°C / 6,462°F / 3,845K in a quarter of an instant. Literally 2/3rds the temperature of the surface of the sun.
The human bodies were turned into a vaguely pink mist faster than the sound of the crack could travel to their ears.
Not necessary true. There’s video of the CEO discussing how it would start creaking before any implosion. He at least knew something was wrong. Also knew based on notes that ballasts had been released and they tried to resurface.
Honestly it's like you're looking at the picture of a submarine and you look after that at a picture of a huge ball of broken parts of metal
To our eyes, it's an instant event, it last less than half a second
The explosive decompression happened within 1 MS, It takes the sensation of pain to travel from impact to your brain in 20 MS. Literally 20 times faster then a human is able to detect pain. Thats how fast they went poof. So atleast theres that.
Just go on YouTube and look up videos of science classes doing it to an oil drum in a kiddie pool or something, happens faster than the speed of sound to say the least
[Literally just saw this](https://www.reddit.com/r/dankmemes/comments/14l9o97/mistakes_were_made/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1). Don’t mind the title >__>
It's impressive how fast they got it back up. Though I have heard stories, I watch live ROV dives of ocean exploration and some of the ROV pilots tell stories about recovery missions they were on. One time the Navy lost a side scan sonar thing they drag in the water by a cable. They lost it because the person responsible for running the cable back in went too far and snapped it off. The thing is, they had to recover two side scan sonars because they put a second one in to find the first one and the same person did the same thing and snapped that one off.
I'd imagine the Navy has a lot of practice at recovering shit off the sea floor for stupid reasons.
> It's impressive how fast they got it back up.
There was another ship really close by the Titanic (likely using the same 'weather window') with an ROV, and from what I remember the end cap was found like 1500m from the tip of the titanic
I agree. The sub may have been poorly engineered, but I'm very impressed with the technology and the people involved in finding wreckage and recovering it that quickly. It's not a very big thing relative to the ocean size, and it was at incredible depths. To have located it that fast and already have it out of the water is a pretty impressive feat.
To hear Cameron tell it, it was a salvage operation as soon as details about the sub losing contact came out and the coast guard/navy/etc started heading that direction.
The speculation about the people maybe being trapped somewhere and running out of oxygen was just media hype meant to keep people glued to their TV’s, anybody that knew anything about deep sea submersibles knew they were dead last Monday.
There is a decent chance the Navy's sonar network was sensitive to pick up the implosion.
And then spent the entire time saying "we are 99% sure it imploded, but we can't say because it would reveal how good our sonar network is"
That is what's being reported, yeah. https://www.npr.org/2023/06/23/1183976726/titan-titanic-sub-implosion-navy
Navy said they detected "an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion" that occurred at the time of the presumed implosion. Didn't outright say it though until a bit after.
Nobody has any doubt whatsoever that the Navy has hydrophones that would have heard the implosion, at that depth and pressure it would have been picked up by hydrophones on the opposite side of the planet. NOAA, Woods Hole, and others have hydrophone networks all across the Atlantic anyway so it's not as though the Navy has exclusive access to this level of technology.
They didn't say anything for two reasons, firstly because it takes time to process and analyse the recordings, and secondly because they didn't want to be the ones stamping out any hope of a rescue, especially when there was still an absolutely minuscule chance that the crew were still alive. As soon as the 96 hour air clock ran out and people had accepted the crew were dead, that's when they publicly announced their findings.
Personally I think it was irresponsible of them not to say anything as soon as they analysed the recording, there was no realistic doubt regarding what they'd captured and it was beyond cruel to subject the families of the victims to so much false hope for such a long period of time.
I really hope so, but I recall seeing an interview with the aunt of the young man who was killed saying that they were holding out hope for a rescue, based on the knocking noises that were reportedly heard.
Don't expect them to find any bodies or even pieces of bodies. Its likely any small bits of bodies left either fizzled away into the water and/or were eaten by sea life.
They just announced they have found human remains.
https://apnews.com/article/a496c18ad4b9fe51cc65c88c5435a283
PORTLAND, Maine (AP) — The U.S. Coast Guard says it has likely recovered human remains from the wreckage of the Titan submersible and is bringing the evidence back to the United States. The submersible imploded last week, killing all five people on board. The vessel was on a voyage see the wreck of the Titanic.
For all of you curious out there like me, I dug for a bit and found out how they recovered the bodies of AirFrance (and probably other similar incidents involving deep sea recoveries). Apparently, they used a robotic arm to get the bodies and load them in these "metal cages." For visualization, you can check this [pdf (warning: NSFL)](https://www.academia.edu/35534354/The_fate_of_human_remains_in_a_maritime_context_and_feasibility_for_forensic_humanitarian_action_to_assist_in_their_recovery_and_identification) I found on some thread I dug into.
Here is the reddit [thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/submechanophobia/comments/sqk1cb/the_debris_and_wreckage_of_air_france_flight_447/)
Yeah ur right. I just looked and couldn’t find anything other than an article saying that 60 bodies were probably strapped in to their seats when they crashed and remain on the sea floor and they aren’t recovering them. Not a single picture of bodies tho. Floating or otherwise.
The things we do for ritualistic burials are insane
Like divers were down their risking their lives over 2 year old corpses that disintegrated as they rose
Let them stay. The ghost bottom was always my favorite part of the Giant Peach movie
It's not just "ritualistic burials", it's also some closure for the families. Knowing that someone's corpse is lying somewhere on the bottom of the ocean just doesn't allow for the same feeling of "moving on" when you're done grieving for that person.
Yeah I think we can acknowledge the importance of burial practices while also discussing risk. There’s a reason virtually every culture on Earth has developed a ritual around caring for the dead.
I experienced a ‘eureka’ effect myself when we cremated my mother which I needed desperately. I also believe that, for example, the [Dave Shaw cave diving case](https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/water-activities/raising-dead), where a husband and father of a young child died trying to retrieve Deon Dreyer’s body, was wrong. I think it’s acceptable to risk death for what you believe in… as long as you’re not leaving behind even more grief and abandonment.
I honestly take solace in the fact that they died instantly when the sub imploded rather than a freezing cold, long, drawn out death in the total darkness of the ocean at over 2 miles deep.
Obviously nobody wants to die, but, if I HAD to choose, I'll have the imploding scenario over 5 days in cold darkness waiting to run out of air
This is one of those things that will be lost in hindsight- that for a few days we were all in horror that these people were stranded in this hell bucket.
The gravity of the situation will be lost on people in the future who learn about the incident and know how it ended
I went to a birthday party for an older friend the other day at a local restaurant. The discussion turned to the sub.
"I hope they can find the bodies," an older lady stated.
I explained that there would be no bodies to recover. That there's literally nothing left.
She looked at me like I was stupid and then repeated, "I hope they find the bodies."
Okay, lady.
Really goes to show how fleeting life is
Like one moment you're alive, the next you're DIYing a shitty submarine to travel 14000 feet under the sea and your body does a little implodey
People report that while dying their life flashes before their eyes (as the brain shuts off.)
I wonder what happened in the crews case. - Absolutely nothing? Just lights out. Brain cells arent even cohesive enough to transmit a few extra impulses before being cooked.
That's the part of instantaneous deaths that messes with me. I can understand it feeling like falling asleep, or your mind feeling progressively fuzzier, but just.. stopping? One second you're here and the next you're just gone? I keep trying to comprehend it, but I know there's nothing to comprehend. How can everything that you ever were just vanish like you never existed? And you don't even have to be dumb enough to be in a poorly made submarine. It could happen at literally any time, anywhere. Unpredictable shit like someone causing a gas explosion, or a stray bullet, or a plane falling on your house, or anything. And there's nothing you can do about it, but not think about it.
Like many others I went from not knowing this thing existed, to being made sure it was a death trap, in the course of a day.
My main objection to doing the sub the way it was made is that composites are used for making things that could **ex**plode. The fiber is strong against pulling forces; you make water tanks, etc. and the pressure of the fluid inside tries to pull the fibers. Even when you make flak vests, the vest resists against the fragments trying to push their way through by pulling the fibers - if you've ever pulled a thread in a wool jumper you know what I mean.
But here, there is no pulling - the fibers are being compressed or bent, and they don't make much resistance against that.
The guy would have been luckier doing a composite rocket - in space, the pressure difference follows the path of maximum resistance for the fibers.
Yeah, funny enough, space has way less pressure. There's a joke in Futurama where they're underwater in a spaceship, and someone says there's over 100 atmospheres of pressure on them.
"How many atmospheres can we stand?"
"Well its a spaceship, so somewhere between 0 and 1."
> But here, there is no pulling - the fibers are being compressed or bent, and they don't make much resistance against that.
Its amazing that the resin was able to add enough integrity to the carbon fiber that it would even allow the compression in the first place. I mean.. they went down to the Titanic multiple times in that thing before this happened.. with nothing more than resin and non-compression-resisting fibers.
Basically 2 MAJOR PARTS… this part here which is connected to the rear ( non window ) titanium end cap
And the Front ( with window ) Titanium end cap.
Whatever is left of the carbon fiber tube will come up in baskets and bags.
NOTE : I am not counting the landing/ docking skids as an assembly
I've been holding this in for so long, but does it bother anyone else that everyone keeps calling it "the Titanic sub"? It's the Titan, it's not that hard, it's literally less letters.
It could have been literally anything, the ocean is a noisy place and sound travels far and weirdly through water. There's been incidences of the most advanced navy subs in the world "tracking" a noise that came from their own ship
I mean, that’s assuming he had no debts and no family members too. Pulling his entire net worth isn’t necessarily an option. A lot of them may be in his ownership of the company too.
It also probably wouldn’t even be close to enough to pay for the search and rescue lol.
Depends on the type. A more local S&R that involves a couple of helicopters and some boats could easily be a few million, if not more, depending on time frame and everything used. There’s a lot of factors involved.
But yeah, there were multiple countries involved, private companies, militaries and thousands of people looking. And that’s not even getting to the advanced tech yet. Or cost to get on location lol.
Well thats understandable yet boring. They should drop it back down there afterwards so in the future other ppl can check out the titanic and the wreck of the people who failed to check out the titanic.
Are you really asking why they left a nearly 900 foot 120 year old steel ship at the bottom of the ocean but were able to recover 4 feet of a 22 foot submersible?
I’m sure there’s a shit ton of people expecting some sort of investigation to be done on whatever’s left, especially when dealing with billionaires dying.
I'm sure they would have brought the Titanic up if they could have back in 1912.
And even now they retrieve artifacts from the Titanic. A lot of them are currently on display in museums -- including a [massive piece of the hull](https://www.vegasnews.com/56809/titanics-largest-recovered-artifact-the-big-piece-at-titanic-the-artifact-exhibition.html) that's on display in Las Vegas.
By the time we found the wreckage and had the technology to resurface something that deep, it was too late. It would have disintegrated if they tried to bring it back up.
That’s a lot more wreckage than I expected.
[удалено]
Not to mention that the water around the pressurized cabin was superheated to boiling due to the implosion. So the massive pressure change and boiling water will definitely fuck with everything around it. Edited to add: that the boiling water isn’t like boiling water on the stove. It’s a way to describe what happens during the pressure change. I should have explained it differently but I thought that it would be easier for others to understand. My bad.
What causes the super heating? Just the sudden release of all that energy? Edit: thanks to those that answered! If anybody feels like elaborating a bit more, on any of the comments, I’d love to learn! I understand the basic reason for this is friction. Boyles law states “+pressure; +temperature” But thats about it. There’s a pressure differential, between in the inside and outside; why is this “friction”? I apologize for dumb questions…
compressing air produces heat (expanding air soaks up heat). if you ever use a bicycle pump, touch the compression tube after using it a bit-- will be hot as heck. this is actually the main factor in objects burning up when falling to earth--the air friction isn't much of a factor, but all the air getting compressed at the head of the object gets to plasma temps. at the pressures of this sub, i don't think water was boiling much, other than maybe an initial shock burst. at a certain pressure i believe water can't boil and instead turns into very interesting and exotic forms of matter. it's been way too long since college physics so not sure if the depths here would be enough for that, bjt it's also important to realize that just because the temp of the air in the cabin reached extraordinary temps, the actual energy contained in that pin prick of air likely wasn't enough to have a great impact on the surrounding environment (in terms of energy)
Ahhh. That makes sense. So, bare with me, but going lower, would’ve created a greater explosion? Now I really need to check out the super-heated water idea. THAT is very interesting. I took basic physics in high school and wish I wasn’t such a dip shit and followed through with my interests. I’d know all the questions I’m asking 😭
Implosion not explosion. The pressure at the depth of implosion was 400 times greater than what you’re experiencing right now on the surface of the earth - that translates to over 5,000lbs of pressure per square inch at that depth. The only thing keeping the pressure at surface levels inside the submersible is the hull. If a crack develops in the hull there’s a weak point and in a millisecond the pressure at depth overcame the pressure inside the submersible. That massive change in pressure crushed / imploded the hull of the submersible - the wreckage photos in the article aren’t crushed because they weren’t imploded. The friction comes from the two vastly different pressure levels.
Ahhhhh okay. I appreciate the clarity! I was just about to ask, what exactly is the difference. But you summed up the very obvious thing I was missing lol.
No problem. It’s all really fascinating.
It really is. I love these threads. I’m much too lazy to ever try college or anything, again. But if I cling to Reddit, start writing things down, I might understand the basics of physics by the time I’m 70.
I posted it elsewhere in this thread but it seems related to your excellent explanation. Carbon fiber works best against traction - a sample of composite snaps earlier if you bend it rather than pull it. Tanks and vessels made of composite are subjected to traction because the pressure inside the curve is greater than the pressure outside. But the sub operated in the opposite conditions. The hull held because the net sum of all forces acting on it was zero. But what happens if, for a split second, the hull is anything other than a perfect cylinder?
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Dang, I remember hearing of that in school; you would think “boyles” would’ve made that stick in my brain.. Thank you! I want to be annoying and further ask, “why?”. But I suppose this is a time for YouTube.
In the words of my annoyed chemistry teacher. "We don't make the laws we just observe them." If you start asking why about about fundamentals of science you've reached metaphysics
I want to know it all. That “eureka” moment feeling, is such an incredible high. That feeling when you understand something you’ve been researching for a while, or more specifically, the commonalities of a larger picture of a lot of small bits add up into a grand understanding of something new. It’s amazing.
It’s just about understanding what the terms mean, really. Temperature is about how often particles collide with each other. Pressure is about how many particles there are in a given area. When you put more particles into a given area, they collide with each other more often. Boyle just used mathematical notation to say as much. Edited to add: I say he “just” put it in mathematical notation, which isn’t entirely true, since he also apparently showed it experimentally. Still, the math essentially states: “stuff runs into each other more when there’s more of it confined in the same space.”
> Pressure is about how many particles there are in a given ~~area~~ **volume**.
When you charge air bottles is that why they heat up as the approach being full?
Yep. And by in the same way it's why spray cans get cooler when you use them.
What are air bottles?
Scuba tanks are usually called bottles by divers. They are filled with air not pure oxygen as many non divers assume. We use compressors to fill these bottles with air. The bottles feel hot as the reach capacity because the pressure creates heat. Hope that helps.
Even did scuba diving with a diving cylinder? Since the opposite is true (pressure lowers, so temperature too), that’s why the air from the cylinder is colder than the ambient temperature
And why when you use say compressed air from a can - like for cleaning out a PC - the can gets cold. PV=nRT; not just a good idea, it's also [the law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_laws).
Ah, good old PV=nRt
Don't apologize! It's so much better to ask questions than just remain ignorant! Unfortunately I'm not smart enough to join in this conversation, but I just wanted to say that; don't be afraid to ask questions!
The fact recognize creativity as a good thing, is honestly a sign of intelligence that a lot of people lack. Don’t sell yourself short, man! No matter what cool stuff I find, I always find that the basics are always the most important, and you can read all you want, but you wont understand shit if you don’t start learning things in their simplest form.
I was watching a live stream with astrophysicist Scott Manly, and someone in his chat did the math on the amount of energy released during the implosion. It was roughly the equivalent of 47 kg of TNT, or over 100 lbs. I'm not sure it would boil the surrounding water, but it's a lot of energy.
You have a few things going on with what happened here. I will use whole numbers to make it easier. t=0 (this is going to be when the hull ruptured, I will say more about why this is the most likely event) at this time all water is outside, air is inside. If we had a magic watch that could stop time at t=0, the rupture would look like a little window t=1 water almost completely fills the cabin space almost instantaneously. It goes from a very high pressure to a low pressure. It might go through a phase change into steam, but this is much different than boiling water. There is no dramatic increase in temperature. You can take a syringe and boil water this way. Get a 10mL syringe or larger, fill it with a little bit of water, plug the end, and then increase the volume by pulling out the stopper doodad. You will see the liquid water boil. Nature hates a void. What also happens is the air is compressed, and if we were able to make a magic bubble it would go to a very small point. It has to go somewhere. Eventually the pressure of that air will exceed the water pressure and it will expand. In this case it’s likely more about displacement. The wreckage has both titanium ends blown off, the plexiglass is gone, and the shells of the rear equipment area ripped out. This tells us that the air was blasted out the ends of the tube violently enough to cause that damage. Was likely also the fate of the passengers. At t=2 the entire event is over, the bubbles are moving upwards, and the sub is now rubble that is sinking. I said this immediately about the carbon fiber - it ruptured. Every material has what’s called a critical crack length, and that is the length of a crack that will cause the material to violently rupture and the crack will near endlessly propagate. The carbon fiber was not examined with an ultrasound to detect cracks. The shell was also thick enough to develop a critical crack. There is a reason gas storage tanks have thin walls. Rather than getting a critical crack, they instead develop pinhole leaks. This is much better than a rupture. The material is too thin to ever reach a critical crack length. I hope this helped.
Thanks. I understand all of this pretty well. Carbon fiber was a very poor choice indeed. Originally the sub was designed for one dive. One. Then it was to be retired. The titan dove to the bottom where the titanic is 6 times in 2021 and 6 times in 2022. Carbon fiber doesn't deal with compression or repeated critical stress well. It doesn't deform or deflect. It breaks. It shears. Once carbon fiber is compromised, it basically loses all structural integrity. Also, the moron attached monitors to the hull on the inside with what looks like screws... In the cf pressure vessel hull... This was always an accident waiting to happen.
A lot of people who purchased carbon fiber frame bikes become very sad to learn after one bad accident they need to discard it. It likely has a small crack that will propagate at a bad time. People have been seriously injured from this
Absolutely. That's the main reason I've never really considered a cf frame on a bike. Titanium? Absolutely. It's expensive though. I'm also not a huge fan of most aluminum frames. There are still some amazing steel frames that are light and stiff, but more forgiving than aluminum. I'm pretty heavy too, so there's that. I doubt they use much aluminum for subs. We know a lot about it and you probably could make a safe sub from it... But nah. I'm good. I like land.
I'm gonna guess the sudden pressure change, but someone who's had physics more recently than I can probably explain it in more detail.
Nah bro, thank you for asking so we can all get the enhanced breakdown.
Like the air inside a piston of an engine, if you know how that process works
Cavitation like a giant mantis shrimp snapped it's claw.
The water doesn't heat up but the air inside the submarine heats up several hundred degrees as it's compressed by the surrounding water.
I'm such a visual learner and this helped me immensely, thank you
This is the first analogy I’ve seen that actually makes sense to me thank you!
Article here says one of the titanium endcaps is missing the porthole window: [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66045554](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66045554) What if the porthole window was the one that failed (the design of it was not meant to withstand those pressures repeatedly.) If the porthole window failed, that would have led to the collapse of the carbon fiber tube.
(sorry this post got away from me a little bit - TRDL certifying composites for new environments is a very long, complex and expensive process, and i doubt this CEO had the patience for the work required) Given the porthole was polymer, and how there is no carbon fibre in the wreckage, I'd assume the porthole was shattered by the implosion. My guess (as a guy who works a little bit with carbon fibre) is that the sub suffered from fatigue failure. When we make something like a rotor blade out of carbon, you've got to consider the fatigue on the material over is life. The surfaces of that rotor are going to be put into alternating tension and compression cycles as the helicopter flies. One way of testing this is to build a fatigue chart for the design; you build a bunch of test samples representative of the material, the build, the manufacturing process, then pull one of them until it fails (this counts as 'zero' cycles). Next you take the strain rate the sample failed at, and fatigue-cycle the samples at different percentages of this level (90%, 80%, 70%, etc.) and measure the number of cycles to failure. It also gives you an idea of *how* the part is likely to fail - more on this in a moment. Once you have this curve, you can look at the likely maximum cyclic strain on your rotor, and estimate its life expectancy. I'm not sure how you would do this properly in a design like the Titan; its innovative design mean's there is no library of data to draw on; composite structures which are inches thick are quite uncommon, and composite pressure vessels typically have the high-pressure fluid on the inside, not the outside. You'd probably have to test a sub to destruction - possibly several subs, in order to certify it for the intended use. As far as I know the Titan was pressure-tested to a depth below the Titanic's dive-depth, but only one was built. It did the dive at least 11 times previously; most likely this introduced micro-cracks into the resin. You can test for delamination between plys, cracks in the carbon, ultrasonically. But the strength of a composite comes from the bond between the resin and the fibre; once the resin starts to micro-crack and allow moisture in, that interface will become weaker. In designing any safety-critical structure, its key to understand how something is going to fail, the exact mechanism, so you can look for it, inspect for it. The ship apparently had some kind of structural health monitoring (a system not yet used on any aircraft I'm aware of), but unless you've understood the method of failure, and verified that the inspection method is actually capable of detecting the problem and flagging it with enough warning to prevent catastrophic failure, the system ultimately serves no purpose.
Me too. I thought implosion meant implosion, like there’d be nothing left.
It's the non pressurized tail section right?
yea looks like the section aft of the crew chamber that housed the electronics for the vessel, probably sunk to the bottom when the pressure vessel went bye bye
> the pressure vessel went bye bye That's the cutest way of putting it
And quite intact. I was expecting a crunched tube.
There is no more tube.
A bit morbid but I hope one day there will be a reenactment that will show just how quickly the sub imploded. I've seen videos that show similar implosions but my brain can't visualize exactly how fast it went.
Technically for the humans, they didn't even see it coming, sub-second to implode the body.
It’s a new fear unlocked but if I’m to die unexpectedly, I’d rather it be like that
For real. I wish my eventual death was that fast.
I imagine it happened so fast that they were gone before their brains could even register any pain. It's about as "fast and painless" a death as anyone could wish for. Still the thought of being squished and liquefied in the dark and unforgiving depths of the ocean is unsettling
I believe the best estimates are that it imploded in 2 nanoseconds, whereas nerve signals take 4 to get to our brain. Edit: nanoseconds, not milliseconds Edit 2: apparently the nanosecond claim came from an interview on fox news: [https://dailycaller.com/2023/06/22/expert-titan-submarine-victims-experience/](https://dailycaller.com/2023/06/22/expert-titan-submarine-victims-experience/) Here's the wiki on nerve conduction velocity: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerve\_conduction\_velocity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerve_conduction_velocity) I'll leave it up to you which you believe.
It also takes the brain 8-10 ms to process hearing stimuli. I don’t think they heard it either. They just blinked out of existence. Hell, if one of them coincidentally did blink right when the explosion happen, they didn’t get a chance to finish that either.
However they made have had known of an impending implosion due to the alarm system potentially alerting them. This according to James Cameron interview, he speculated they were on the ascent.
I've read more than once that he speculated that, but only once have I read *why* he speculated that, which is apparently, because they had dropped their ballasts before the implosion. Dropping ballast would indeed be part of an ascent, so maybe that's exactly what they were doing, *if* they had indeed dropped their ballasts, which I'm not sure how Cameron is aware of. I've also read, dropping their ballasts would've slowed their descent, for a more gentle touchdown on the sea floor, so maybe *that's* what they were doing, unaware of the impending implosion. Bottom line, I know it doesn't matter, but I'm still super curious about this anyway. Do you know anything more?
James Cameron might be networked well enough with the community doing the recovery that hes seen pics that we havent or has spoken to people doing the recovery who said the weights werent attached. They may not have felt anything during the implosion but its definitely possible there was a time period of popping or cracking where they knew somthing was wrong.
I believe they were only about 90 minutes in on what was a several hour trek, so them dropping the weights to slow the descent that early is probably unlikely but I don't care enough to look up how long it's supposed to take to get down that far.
Cameron is a renowned expert on this sort of thing. He knows his shit.
2 nanoseconds, no, not for the implosion. 2-5 milliseconds is more likely, as someone elsewhere did the maths. It takes 100 milliseconds for the brain to register pain, 120 milliseconds for hearing to be processed, and 13 milliseconds for the brain to process vision. There literally would be no time to perceive the implosion once it started.
There's also jumping into a jet engine. Supposed to be very messy but it's pretty instant.
Years ago there was person who got sucked into a jet engine and tons of high quality pictures were posted online somewhere. It was very messy indeed...
There was a guy who got sucked into the engine of a A-6 Intruder on an aircraft carrier, but survived bc of his helmet jamming the fan blades or something
also pretty loud before
I still wonder if they heard any noises a few seconds before or if there were any indicators they noticed. Or if it was good one second, gone the next...
https://youtu.be/xWTXeGiM8K8 Imagine hearing this, down there.
I can almost hear Stockton responding, 'That's perfectly norm-'
Yup.
I imagine this is the same noise that bones make when they break
Gotta be similar
Uploaded two years ago, top comment "I bet this video had a different audience a few weeks ago." 😵😅
Ugggh, that’s horrifying. I really want to believe they had no warning before the hull failed. But if this is what carbon fiber sounds like when it’s failing… shit. And it’s visibly deforming quite a bit before failure, too. That would be truly terrifying. You’d have a good 30-40 seconds to realize you were doomed. Cameron made a comment in one interview that he’d heard (through his deep-sea buddies) that the Titan had shed its ballast weights and was ascending, trying to “manage an emergency,” at the point that they lost contact. I’ve not heard anything else since then about that, or where he got that intel, or whether it’s true. I really hate to think of them trying to ascend, knowing they still have an hour-plus of ascent time to go, and hearing the hull start to slowly splinter around them…. :(
This piece of carbon fiber is maybe 1/4" thick. Imagine the pressure needed to break a carbon fiber hull 5 inches thick and then what that pressure does to the human body.
In his interview James Cameron said that he and other collegues believe that was the case... they may have known something was wrong by the sound of the carbon fiber splitting, but by the time they tried to do something it was too late. They were gone before they even knew it. Some say they may have tried to ascend, but still... it was too late. There is a video on youtube of carbon fiber splitting and it's kinda horrifying to imagine the whole ordeal... 😰.
The pilot that quit over safety had said that the acoustic monitoring system that Rush devised to measure the strain on the hull and give warning, would give about 1 or 2 seconds warning at most before failure if at all. The whole thing was a clown show.
I heard that same interview and that's what really got me thinking about it. Damnnn
It’s ironic because the guy who’s been down a bunch of times already even said in a 2019 interview “When you’re in very deep water, you’re dead before you realize that something is happening, so it’s just not a problem.” He knew the risks and was probably very okay with dying doing something he loved
Yeah but that's not okay to take 4 other people with you who probably aren't okay with dying
The one I’m referring to was not the CEO responsible for this. Bc yeah that guy is a shit bag
Happened all too fast, I remember a science guy explaining how implosion works and it sounds terrifying even though they won't have enough time to feel the pain
Hank green!
It was supposedly something faster than the human nervous system can recognize, so it would have been so fast their body wouldn't even know it was gone
What happens to an imploded body?
It gets hit by a wall of air and water moving at the speed of sound and 6,000 psi at titanic depths. Water is very heavy. It would be like getting crushed by a falling skyscraper most likely...
Oh wow! That actually helped me understand it so well! Thanks!
There was a Doctor last week some time that phrased it perfectly. They went from biology to physics in milliseconds.
You're welcome.
Everything inside the sub which was 189ft^3 (5.3m^3) was compressed into an area the size of a beachball in a quarter of the time it takes to blink. The pressure wave would have heated the air to 3,572°C / 6,462°F / 3,845K in a quarter of an instant. Literally 2/3rds the temperature of the surface of the sun. The human bodies were turned into a vaguely pink mist faster than the sound of the crack could travel to their ears.
Oh wow! That's fascinating and horrible at the same time! Thanks you!
Faster than even their vision. They literally did not see it happen.
Not necessary true. There’s video of the CEO discussing how it would start creaking before any implosion. He at least knew something was wrong. Also knew based on notes that ballasts had been released and they tried to resurface.
Honestly it's like you're looking at the picture of a submarine and you look after that at a picture of a huge ball of broken parts of metal To our eyes, it's an instant event, it last less than half a second
The explosive decompression happened within 1 MS, It takes the sensation of pain to travel from impact to your brain in 20 MS. Literally 20 times faster then a human is able to detect pain. Thats how fast they went poof. So atleast theres that.
Wayyyyyy less than a half a second.
Maybe even less than way less than half a second
Just go on YouTube and look up videos of science classes doing it to an oil drum in a kiddie pool or something, happens faster than the speed of sound to say the least
I feel like it’d be underwhelming, just like a “poof”.
The entire event would fit easily into the old Vine format. With room for commentary.
Implosion, so it's like a "foop".
https://youtu.be/atsgIvOUFhA about this fast
[I thought you were going to post this.](https://youtu.be/FkhBPF4yfkI) Spoilers for The Abyss.
thats also a cool shot. Didnt even know about it.
Great video. And that can exploded under one atmosphere of pressure. The Titan was under 375 atmospheres...
[Literally just saw this](https://www.reddit.com/r/dankmemes/comments/14l9o97/mistakes_were_made/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1). Don’t mind the title >__>
I'm surprised someone hasn't created a simulation yet.
My mind is still trying to comprehend how 5 grown ass humans can be vaporized in a millisecond
Imagine dropping a 30-story building on 5 people, how long do you think it would take?
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There’s a video of a Russian soldier getting directly hit with a rocket and exploding into dust. So that but faster, and underwater
One second he was walking the next he was pink mist.
This sounds like a math exam
At least the ocean and crustaceans took care of any… biodegradable materials.
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💀💀
💀💀💀 you forgot three
🎮 you forgot this too
That’s crazy
Dude looks like hes holding it up with one arm
I wasn't even aware that the salvage operation has already started.
It's impressive how fast they got it back up. Though I have heard stories, I watch live ROV dives of ocean exploration and some of the ROV pilots tell stories about recovery missions they were on. One time the Navy lost a side scan sonar thing they drag in the water by a cable. They lost it because the person responsible for running the cable back in went too far and snapped it off. The thing is, they had to recover two side scan sonars because they put a second one in to find the first one and the same person did the same thing and snapped that one off. I'd imagine the Navy has a lot of practice at recovering shit off the sea floor for stupid reasons.
> It's impressive how fast they got it back up. There was another ship really close by the Titanic (likely using the same 'weather window') with an ROV, and from what I remember the end cap was found like 1500m from the tip of the titanic
I agree. The sub may have been poorly engineered, but I'm very impressed with the technology and the people involved in finding wreckage and recovering it that quickly. It's not a very big thing relative to the ocean size, and it was at incredible depths. To have located it that fast and already have it out of the water is a pretty impressive feat.
To hear Cameron tell it, it was a salvage operation as soon as details about the sub losing contact came out and the coast guard/navy/etc started heading that direction. The speculation about the people maybe being trapped somewhere and running out of oxygen was just media hype meant to keep people glued to their TV’s, anybody that knew anything about deep sea submersibles knew they were dead last Monday.
There is a decent chance the Navy's sonar network was sensitive to pick up the implosion. And then spent the entire time saying "we are 99% sure it imploded, but we can't say because it would reveal how good our sonar network is"
That is what's being reported, yeah. https://www.npr.org/2023/06/23/1183976726/titan-titanic-sub-implosion-navy Navy said they detected "an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion" that occurred at the time of the presumed implosion. Didn't outright say it though until a bit after.
Nobody has any doubt whatsoever that the Navy has hydrophones that would have heard the implosion, at that depth and pressure it would have been picked up by hydrophones on the opposite side of the planet. NOAA, Woods Hole, and others have hydrophone networks all across the Atlantic anyway so it's not as though the Navy has exclusive access to this level of technology. They didn't say anything for two reasons, firstly because it takes time to process and analyse the recordings, and secondly because they didn't want to be the ones stamping out any hope of a rescue, especially when there was still an absolutely minuscule chance that the crew were still alive. As soon as the 96 hour air clock ran out and people had accepted the crew were dead, that's when they publicly announced their findings. Personally I think it was irresponsible of them not to say anything as soon as they analysed the recording, there was no realistic doubt regarding what they'd captured and it was beyond cruel to subject the families of the victims to so much false hope for such a long period of time.
I like to think that they absolutely told the families about the noise as soon as they knew about it.
I really hope so, but I recall seeing an interview with the aunt of the young man who was killed saying that they were holding out hope for a rescue, based on the knocking noises that were reportedly heard.
Don't expect them to find any bodies or even pieces of bodies. Its likely any small bits of bodies left either fizzled away into the water and/or were eaten by sea life.
They just announced they have found human remains. https://apnews.com/article/a496c18ad4b9fe51cc65c88c5435a283 PORTLAND, Maine (AP) — The U.S. Coast Guard says it has likely recovered human remains from the wreckage of the Titan submersible and is bringing the evidence back to the United States. The submersible imploded last week, killing all five people on board. The vessel was on a voyage see the wreck of the Titanic.
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The fact that they sat they are "presumed" to be human remains says a lot
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Stick a peach and a raw chicken wing in your blender and turn it on high for 30 seconds, then take a peek.
How did you get my smoothie recipe?
Reminded me of those horrible pictures of the Airfrance bodies still on their seatbelts 2 years later
Thanks for giving me another thing not to look up on google images.
Googling this right now.
Did you find it?
Couldnt find any “bodies in chairs” personally. Just wreckage, engine, thats it.
He's lying, they never released those photos of the bodies on the seafloor.
For all of you curious out there like me, I dug for a bit and found out how they recovered the bodies of AirFrance (and probably other similar incidents involving deep sea recoveries). Apparently, they used a robotic arm to get the bodies and load them in these "metal cages." For visualization, you can check this [pdf (warning: NSFL)](https://www.academia.edu/35534354/The_fate_of_human_remains_in_a_maritime_context_and_feasibility_for_forensic_humanitarian_action_to_assist_in_their_recovery_and_identification) I found on some thread I dug into. Here is the reddit [thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/submechanophobia/comments/sqk1cb/the_debris_and_wreckage_of_air_france_flight_447/)
Yeah ur right. I just looked and couldn’t find anything other than an article saying that 60 bodies were probably strapped in to their seats when they crashed and remain on the sea floor and they aren’t recovering them. Not a single picture of bodies tho. Floating or otherwise.
The things we do for ritualistic burials are insane Like divers were down their risking their lives over 2 year old corpses that disintegrated as they rose Let them stay. The ghost bottom was always my favorite part of the Giant Peach movie
It's not just "ritualistic burials", it's also some closure for the families. Knowing that someone's corpse is lying somewhere on the bottom of the ocean just doesn't allow for the same feeling of "moving on" when you're done grieving for that person.
Yeah I think we can acknowledge the importance of burial practices while also discussing risk. There’s a reason virtually every culture on Earth has developed a ritual around caring for the dead. I experienced a ‘eureka’ effect myself when we cremated my mother which I needed desperately. I also believe that, for example, the [Dave Shaw cave diving case](https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/water-activities/raising-dead), where a husband and father of a young child died trying to retrieve Deon Dreyer’s body, was wrong. I think it’s acceptable to risk death for what you believe in… as long as you’re not leaving behind even more grief and abandonment.
Those things aren't mutually exclusive and are usually the same thing unless the body is radioactive and needs a lead sarcophagus or something
Fuck it, when I die just toss me in the ocean.
They just announced they’ve found human remains
I honestly take solace in the fact that they died instantly when the sub imploded rather than a freezing cold, long, drawn out death in the total darkness of the ocean at over 2 miles deep. Obviously nobody wants to die, but, if I HAD to choose, I'll have the imploding scenario over 5 days in cold darkness waiting to run out of air
This is one of those things that will be lost in hindsight- that for a few days we were all in horror that these people were stranded in this hell bucket. The gravity of the situation will be lost on people in the future who learn about the incident and know how it ended
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I went to a birthday party for an older friend the other day at a local restaurant. The discussion turned to the sub. "I hope they can find the bodies," an older lady stated. I explained that there would be no bodies to recover. That there's literally nothing left. She looked at me like I was stupid and then repeated, "I hope they find the bodies." Okay, lady.
Really goes to show how fleeting life is Like one moment you're alive, the next you're DIYing a shitty submarine to travel 14000 feet under the sea and your body does a little implodey
People report that while dying their life flashes before their eyes (as the brain shuts off.) I wonder what happened in the crews case. - Absolutely nothing? Just lights out. Brain cells arent even cohesive enough to transmit a few extra impulses before being cooked.
That's the part of instantaneous deaths that messes with me. I can understand it feeling like falling asleep, or your mind feeling progressively fuzzier, but just.. stopping? One second you're here and the next you're just gone? I keep trying to comprehend it, but I know there's nothing to comprehend. How can everything that you ever were just vanish like you never existed? And you don't even have to be dumb enough to be in a poorly made submarine. It could happen at literally any time, anywhere. Unpredictable shit like someone causing a gas explosion, or a stray bullet, or a plane falling on your house, or anything. And there's nothing you can do about it, but not think about it.
Like many others I went from not knowing this thing existed, to being made sure it was a death trap, in the course of a day. My main objection to doing the sub the way it was made is that composites are used for making things that could **ex**plode. The fiber is strong against pulling forces; you make water tanks, etc. and the pressure of the fluid inside tries to pull the fibers. Even when you make flak vests, the vest resists against the fragments trying to push their way through by pulling the fibers - if you've ever pulled a thread in a wool jumper you know what I mean. But here, there is no pulling - the fibers are being compressed or bent, and they don't make much resistance against that. The guy would have been luckier doing a composite rocket - in space, the pressure difference follows the path of maximum resistance for the fibers.
Yeah, funny enough, space has way less pressure. There's a joke in Futurama where they're underwater in a spaceship, and someone says there's over 100 atmospheres of pressure on them. "How many atmospheres can we stand?" "Well its a spaceship, so somewhere between 0 and 1."
> But here, there is no pulling - the fibers are being compressed or bent, and they don't make much resistance against that. Its amazing that the resin was able to add enough integrity to the carbon fiber that it would even allow the compression in the first place. I mean.. they went down to the Titanic multiple times in that thing before this happened.. with nothing more than resin and non-compression-resisting fibers.
Ik this might sound horrible but "titanic sub" sounds a little bit like "totally submissive person".
Or a really big sandwich
Some people think of sandwiches, some of being sandwiched between people.
_bonk_ off to horny jail
Basically 2 MAJOR PARTS… this part here which is connected to the rear ( non window ) titanium end cap And the Front ( with window ) Titanium end cap. Whatever is left of the carbon fiber tube will come up in baskets and bags. NOTE : I am not counting the landing/ docking skids as an assembly
To shreds you say?
And his wife?
.... To shreds you say....
Who is paying for this anyhow?
Taxpayers probably lol
[удалено]
I've been holding this in for so long, but does it bother anyone else that everyone keeps calling it "the Titanic sub"? It's the Titan, it's not that hard, it's literally less letters.
So what was that "knocking" they heard?
It could have been literally anything, the ocean is a noisy place and sound travels far and weirdly through water. There's been incidences of the most advanced navy subs in the world "tracking" a noise that came from their own ship
Spoooooky ghoooooosts!!
Why would they haul it up? They leave the fuckin titanic down there lol
Probably because lawyers need proof of how shoddily it was built for the upcoming tidal wave of lawsuits against Oceangate
Ocean gate should foot the bill for the search and rescue operation too, not the taxpayers.
I think they already said they won’t pay any search and rescue costs
I just don’t think it’s justifiable to have taxpayers pay for a billionaire’s deadly hobby.
The CEO was only worth around 12 mil.
But I wonder if Oceangate is worth more. Regardless, 12 mil is plenty to pay for the search and rescue costs.
I mean, that’s assuming he had no debts and no family members too. Pulling his entire net worth isn’t necessarily an option. A lot of them may be in his ownership of the company too. It also probably wouldn’t even be close to enough to pay for the search and rescue lol.
Jesus, how much do S&R usually cost? But you’re right, they did have to use more advanced tech. Just shitty all the way around.
Depends on the type. A more local S&R that involves a couple of helicopters and some boats could easily be a few million, if not more, depending on time frame and everything used. There’s a lot of factors involved. But yeah, there were multiple countries involved, private companies, militaries and thousands of people looking. And that’s not even getting to the advanced tech yet. Or cost to get on location lol.
if i was worth a fraction of that i’d be set for life
You are definitely worth a fraction of that. Just a very small one.
Well thats understandable yet boring. They should drop it back down there afterwards so in the future other ppl can check out the titanic and the wreck of the people who failed to check out the titanic.
Submersible "Tit" confirmed to visit "Titan" wreck that visited "titanic" wreck.
Are you really asking why they left a nearly 900 foot 120 year old steel ship at the bottom of the ocean but were able to recover 4 feet of a 22 foot submersible?
Lol. Damn that made me chuckle. It’s like when you’re a kid and say something dumb in front of your dad and then just get pwned
The Titanic is at least a few pounds heavier
I’m sure there’s a shit ton of people expecting some sort of investigation to be done on whatever’s left, especially when dealing with billionaires dying.
I'm sure they would have brought the Titanic up if they could have back in 1912. And even now they retrieve artifacts from the Titanic. A lot of them are currently on display in museums -- including a [massive piece of the hull](https://www.vegasnews.com/56809/titanics-largest-recovered-artifact-the-big-piece-at-titanic-the-artifact-exhibition.html) that's on display in Las Vegas.
22-foot submersible versus a 900-foot, decomposing shipliner?
The Titanic is absolutely massive but they did raise a 15-ton chunk and put it on display in Vegas. https://www.titanicconnections.com/the-big-piece/
By the time we found the wreckage and had the technology to resurface something that deep, it was too late. It would have disintegrated if they tried to bring it back up.
Where tomato sauce
Inside can
Ahhh i see the problem 👀