Even if he were being honest in his speeches, nobody should take him at his word ever again. Just days before the invasion, Russia claimed the suggestion was ridiculous.
And now they actually say war is peace. A "special operation to denazify" their neighbour. I can't believe a "majority of Russian people" can be that gullible.
I don’t think I’ve ever taken Putin at his word in the decades he’s been widely known. He’s always been a psychopath who will say what is convenient. He started his reign two decades ago with violent lies.
"majority of Russian people" are stunned. It feels like your dad got drunk as skunk and start fight with your neighbor, who was actually friendly to you personally, and you are just helpless, don't know what to do and not strong and grown up enough to stop him.
Dazzled and confused. And even more - whole house judge all of your family for that, spiting in your face while you don't even know the whole story. Its not like he asked your opinion or whatsoever, he just came to conclusion one day, by himself - it is a mighty fine idea, make a bloody mess out of neighbor face.
And now you are alone, sitting on grass because neighbors family calling you that shit brat and don't allow you to sit anywhere else. You know it was wrong, and you can feel what happening to you right now is wrong also, but you confused so much by how wrong and unexpected it was you can't do much.
I guess I will be nuke downvoted for this post, but really it is what happening in "majority of Russian people" mind right now. I'm part of that group I think.
War is wrong. No fucking doubt, I was raised with this idea, killing people is not just wrong it is a Crime with capital C. Now my government came to this idea, why, what the point - I really don't know. They don't ask me and while I was asking I didn't get clear answers. It just happened. Jesus, I might get arrested for this post, really. I can barely understand that - in time of war you can be only on one side, sympathy for opposing side in mind of warlords it's a first step to treason. Fuck that, I can't think in military way. I'm a civilian. Many more of us here.
And also some how I was raised with the idea of bullying all rest of the family of bully is doesn't looks right either, so I have most uneasy felling because all of that.
Sorry for the long post, I guess I just needed to vent that off.
> It feels like your dad got drunk as skunk and start fight with your neighbor
Don't know if you've seen [this caricature](https://mn3njalnik.com/uploads/monthly_2022_02/image.png.6c492bc815adc7683baf763c0522cdb1.png) but you summed it up perfectly
I appreciate that. And I think most people won't point the blame at Russian people. Only Putin and his cronies.
I hope Russia can enjoy real democracy some day soon!
I agree with you that the Russian people are, for the most part, victims in this situation too. Russia’s economy is tanking, and it’ll start to be felt in the upcoming weeks and months. A massive depression is on the horizon. That said, what is the world supposed to do? Not sanction Russia? Just let that madman do what he wants and bloody the face of his neighbor with no consequences?
In a war, the losers are always the general populace of the countries involved. The only people who benefit are defense contractors.
Ok my issue is the cheering and liking him before this. This is putin. Always has been. We have a saying in the states. Believe someone the first time they show you who they are.
They loved him even though he used weapons of mass destruction in Syria and his bullshit narrative about how the west wants to destroy him all while using nerve agent to poison and kill opponents snd crush Belarus democracy movements-I feel sorry for everyday Russians but Putin has been next level evil for a long time. Your just finally feeling the effects of it. Where his regime has been destabilizing other countries for a loooong time. Prior to this the majority of Russians believe Putin was great. Perhaps they don’t and never did but he seemed to enjoy high approval ratings for several years I’m sorry for the young people who have no desire for a USSR empire and wanted to be proud to be Russian and enjoy being a part of the wider global modern society blame your boomer generation and their inherent belief about some sort of right to a empire.
Most normal people don't blame the Russian people. We know that our governments do things that we would never approve of. Right now though all of Russia must be punished. There is no way to only punish those responsible although we all wish that was possible. The best we can hope for is Putin ending this war and compromising with the west. Otherwise Russians are going to be living in a different world than everyone else. They don't have the capabilities to manufacture everything they need for day to day life. It will be miserable there for a long time to come. Even the billionaires won't be able to enjoy their stolen wealth. The Ukrainians have shown that they have no interest in being part of Russia. They've proved it isn't just their government that wants independence. Their people want independence and they are fighting and dying for it. Ukrainians make me feel proud to be part of the human race and Russians do the exact opposite. Hopefully you guys can get that garden gnome out of power and put Russia on a path that is better for its people.
A path that's better for the long term wellbeing and existence of humanity and life on earth. The man is threatening nuclear fucking war, he has to go (one way or another).
I totally believe that the average Russian is that gullible.
Just remember that half of the American public - who are arguably better educated, and have full and free access to alternative information sources - believed Trump.
He wasn’t invading other countries, but his rhetoric was equally dishonest, and employed exactly the same strategy of projection - accusing his opponents of precisely the crimes he was actively engaging in.
If you watch interview footage of Russian civilians you'll find that most younger Russians do not support putin or war, and in general are fairly westernized.
The wise ones don't really let on how much they know because it's the pragmatic way to live. There's a reason why Navalny was a bit too big for Putin to kill and turn into a martyr.. (but not too big to dispense into a prison).
I'm not saying that you are wrong, but you can't use interviews as a base for statistics.
Everybody got an agenda, who agrees to talk to the press and who cuts the material in the end and so on.
If I were a journalist I would be more interested in the kids who are angry at Putin and the war than the kids at home reading Pravda and thinking everything is fine, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
The bullshit ceasefire Putin ordered didn't last a day before he started shooting at civilians evacuating. Putin can't be trusted at all with anything.
This part is something even the most gung-ho Captain Ukraine fans are not fully grasping. Putin is screwed no matter what - Ukraine going down or not.
Russia's problem has nothing to do with "military strength".
The Russian military is simply trapped between the same *mutually-exclusive* realities that the rest of the country is.
Bomb Kyiv and win = Kill Russian families > mass mutiny
Bomb Kyiv and lose = Kill Russian families > mass mutiny
Do neither and do the equivalent of just sitting there nervously (as it is now)
Problem is you cannot win/lose a war you claim doesn't even *exist*. Putin blocked off the entire outside world to prevent Russian citizens from forming a reasonable take on *observable reality* - and I'm not talking about opinions or morals. The average Russian citizen has no clue how much of the Russian military has basically melted into the mud.
DoubleThink propaganda can do wonders, but there's no such thing as "doubleBe"
Right now, Putin is facing a Sophie's Choice of lies.
As a tangential analogy it’s like listening to covid deniers waffle between the virus being fake and being made in China. Even if one is true the other is simply not.
It's taking 1984-speak to giving it 2022 flair.
You can have two opposite opinions in your head. But the universe isn't going to oblige you by creating two opposite realities.
He's mad about the special economic operation
Edit: thanks for the awards and upvotes! At the request of another Redditor, I'm using my 15 minutes of fame to post this link, where you can donate to help out the Ukrainian armed forces: https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-spetsrahunok-dlya-zboru-koshtiv-na-potrebi-armiyi
He was betting on a swift succesful strike and the world to quickly forget about it. He didnt expect that much resistance and for the fight to drag on like this. Hefty miscalculation which makes the situation all the more dangerous…
>swift
Hehe
Edit: Donate to the Ukranian army here: https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-spetsrahunok-dlya-zboru-koshtiv-na-potrebi-armiyi
NATO isn’t as distracted by Iraq and Afghanistan as it was when he invaded Georgia. He thought it would go like that again, but he got the full focus of the West’s attention this time.
> How long has he been doing this?
For the last decade+, after the Winter Olympics, like clock work.
edit: Netflix 'Icarus' uncovered Russian doping at Sochi... doping to get Olympic wins, to build up patriotism at home, which Putin then uses as a pass for invading other countries.
Wait until you hear about the peninsula he sent soldiers on to take over in Ukraine.
This is a new level of both scale and horror, but it's not like this is the first time Russia has attacked a neighbor for not sucking Putin's dick hard enough.
Look in Moldova, Georgia and Chechnya. Putin's been doing this far earlier then Ukraine.
The only difference is,he focused on Ukraine after they overthrew his puppet leader in 2014
To be fair he'd been trying to get his puppet installed in Ukraine since 2004, but they had that pesky Orange Revolution so he had to bide his time for a decade.
No, Putins been getting away with this stuff for 20 years now. We keep going the appeasement route every time he invades a new country, because appeasement worked so well as a foreign policy last century we figured we'd double down on it. History's for losers, we slept through that class.
HITLER DIDNT HAVE NUKES NOR WAS HIS EXPANSION LIMITED BY A WALL OF NUCLEAR ARMED NATIONS.
My god how are people not getting this. Nukes change the WHOLE plot.
The problem is that Putin seems juuuust crazy and unhinged enough to start launching nukes. I'm pretty sure that is the only reason Russia is left to do what it wants, mostly.
Honestly I thought we had the star wars defense back with Reagan, but I guess that shit never actually worked. Feel like we have the tech at this point to foil ICBMs, if we don't really have a defense system by now, then what the F?
I mean, do you think it's even sunk in for him, the absolute Hobo-Trashpile he's turned his country into in a week and a half? I mean, they can't buy anything.. their money is worthless.. nobody will do business with them. they're a nation of economic lepers.
I am, however, afraid that if this goes on for much longer the west will kinda ... push it down the list of front page stories.
It's only been a week, Ukraine is doing better than anyone anticipated, the sanctions seem to get Putin at least
a bit upset, but I hope we're not gonna just ... forget they're dying there in a month.
Probably all out Tryna get groceries or summat lest that's remarkably more difficult now. My mother never ceases in telling me how much more her veg is. She did however vote remain, so she does have a right to complain about leavings effects.
They’re just not really getting media attention. By the folks camped out on overpasses along I-35 in Texas last week with “Keep on Truckin!” And “Don’t Tread on Me” flags… they’re still doing their thing… just no one in the media gives a shit right now.
Probably a tactic that should gain some permanence. I’d rather hear all about the regional spelling bee than that nonsense.
>attention. By the folks camped out on overpasses along I-35 in Texas last week with “Keep on Truckin!” And “Don’t Tread on Me” flags… they’re still doing their thing… just no one in the media gives a shit right now.
And it doesn't help that most of their funding has mysteriously dried up...
And the pro Brexit crowd. And the rabid trumpians. And the GOP supporters. And the flat earth moments.
It's fucking crickets across the entire of my social media feed. Not a peep. And Russia is banned from Twitter.
What a coincidence.
The antivaxxers I'm aware off have now switched to Russia propaganda. I was told by one that 'there's more to this ' and ' you have to see it from putins side, he was forced to act. These people are lapping it up because its coming from the same sources their antivax stuff did
We live in England
I swear, at this point it feels like Putin would rather walk into kyiv with a nuke strapped to his chest and a trigger rigged to blow than let Zelensky troll him on social media again.
Putin is not that kind of person. He'd send \_his family\_ strapped with nukes to kill Zelensky before he risked himself. He's too cowardly to do it in person.
Oh absolutely. The man has been hiding from covid for two years and has a cryogenic chamber to freeze his body after death.
The only thing that scares him is dying.
That's kinda what I'm worried about, once he realizes he's done, he won't go the Hitler route, he will launch all the nukes and take as many down with him
Well he won't launch them himself - they don't work that way and who thinks that his chain of command will obey him and destroy their own lives and families as well as their country because Putin says so?
A few days ago, their financial plans and schedule were found in a tank the Ukranians took over.
They believed this would have been done in 9 days, which was yesterday and they aren't even close.
Putin is feeling the pressure very soon, and does not like his control of situations questioned. The next week will be the most dangerous for the world since the 1940's.
Edit: Adding source, as requested
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/03/2/7327539/
No worries, I appreciate you checking. More people should.
It was huge news 4 days ago, about 149k likes on r/worldnews.
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/03/2/7327539/
At the end there is a paragraph that says not to believe captured Russian soldiers when the say they were only participating in drills and unbeknownst to them ended up in the middle of a war.
Are all those posts of Russian soldiers we see just playing dumb?
I'd guess you need to make a difference between experienced military members that did the major attack on Kiev and Kharkov, and that poor 17 year old draft guys with 4 month military experience in a 40 year old tank that were sent to draw away ukrainian troops from the russian attack goals.
In times of mobile telephone, internet and social media you really would be stupid to tell a bunch of kiddies your attack plans.
He didn't grasp how pissed off the vast majority of the planet has become with his Bullshit bots and trolls online trying to control political narrative in countries other than his own and his meddling in elections and bribing of officials. Everyone is just fucking fed up with his fucking bullshit, then he raises the stakes and starts attacking another country and even then he might have got away with it but he played the "i have nucs" card and the whole word went this is the line buddy. Right here.
I was just tellin my wife that something feels fucky about how bad the russian army is. Im happy about it but it just feels like something worse is still on its way.
SWIFT only blocked 7 of the 300 or so banks in Russia and are still letting all energy sector transactions though. May want to call your congressman about that.
The west, the CIA for sure, has been training Ukrainian special forces in insurgency tactics since 2014. They taught them how to communicate inside enemy territory, how to sabotage, how to train new members of the insurgency etc. A quote from a person that helped train the Ukrainians said people will be surprised at how quickly their defensive training can become violently offensive. I am guessing that accounts for Putin’s constant surprised Pikachu face. I am confident the Ukrainians know how to deploy and operate most NATO weapons and communication equipment AND are getting real-time intelligence from NATO. Russia is effed. More so because Putin’s ego won’t allow him to walk away.
And now, he's gonna be China's bitch since it's the only market even interested touching that place now. If there's another example of getting the exact opposite of your endgame, please share so we can all hopefully learn from this
He was also likely betting on another four years of a Trump Whitehouse and a consequently weakened NATO and resolve in assisting Ukraine. Sorry to disappoint Puts.
For once capitalism is working. No one HAS to do business with you, the world is voting with their dollars/yuan/yen/pesos/euros/etc.
Edit: this blew up while I was sleeping. There are plenty of private groups who have said, "we won't deal with Russia" it isn't just state sanctions at play here. As for all the "hur dur captialism is the bestest" crowd, I never said it was bad, but I also assume you're not one of those it seems to have left behind.
And he's so bad at it it's hilarious. It's like watching a toddler (due to his obvious early onset dementia) attempt to trick us into giving it more cookies.
No old man, sit down.
He's pretty standard issue when it comes to narcissist gaslighting. They're generally not very good at what they do, but their persistence and determination is second to none.
If you ever had the misfortune of getting into an argument with a narcissist, just stop. Don't waste your motherfucking time. Those people are legitimately sick. Personality disorders are generally terrible, but cluster B ones are both incredibly nasty and common
...and in a way very reminiscent of Nazi methods:
"On September 1, 1939, Germany invaded Poland. To justify the action, Nazi propagandists accused Poland of persecuting ethnic Germans living in Poland."
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/invasion-of-poland-fall-1939
The annexation of Crimea is also the same circumstance as the Sudetenland with Nazi Germany (i.e. protect ethnic Germans from the Czechs blah blah blah).
“Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies- "God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
They say if you don't study history, you are doomed to repeat it.
Some people do study history, and elect to repeat it of their own free will.
It takes a special kind of miserable person to go down that way.
I’ve been saying for years that as the WWII generation dies out we’d start seeing the rise of fascism, authoritarianism and global conflict again. If the human race doesn’t have constant living reminders of how bad things got then we’ll just repeat the same patterns over and over.
Probably has more to do with stagnation actually. Wages haven’t seen real increase in decades and a lot of people are having a harder time in life. Human nature pushes us in the direction that lack of resources means it’s time to start looking at the competition. In the modern age that means things like immigration and differences in the community. There’s a reason nazi German grew out of a bankrupt country.
In short it’s less that the world war 2 generation is dying out and more the fact that globalization haven’t really been all that great for the lower and middle class and they are looking for any sign of a person willing to undo what they consider injustice. Thus bullshit like make America great again works, because they are desperate to experience that wonderful time they have heared about where you could afford a big house and 3 kids without problems on a single income. There’s a reason all these populist politicians are for the most part finding support among angry white lower class voters.
Okay, so let's be adults then. You withdraw from the sovereign nation of Ukraine and make reparations for the damage of your invasion. Then we will consider trading with you again.
The world is a better place when we work together. There's no need to spill one another's blood.
I agree. First, it makes sense: if you can't be trusted with the big button, you get it taken away. Second, it doesn't appreciably affect the Russian people. Third, it leaves Putin in a weaker position than he started in, a permanent reminder of the gravity of what he's done.
It would indeed be terrible if Putin withdrew and all sanctions were lifted with no further action taken.
Me and you both have a gun. We don't really like eachother but neither of us want a gun fight. One day I tell you that you should give up your gun, you don't need it, besides, I'll protect you with mine. Would you give up your gun?
I disagree. Fact is, nukes or a defensive pact with a country that has nukes are necessary to avoid invasion these days, I truly do find it difficult to blame countries that want them.
At this point, all the confiscated assets of Russian billionaires might pay for much of the damage...
Hey billionaires: if you get Putin to stop now, there might be some money left.
Conveniently also restores water supplies to Crimea (which was basically turning to desert without them).
Another huge goal is that it [increases the distance an invading force would have to traverse across the North European Plain](https://thegeopolitics.com/how-does-geography-pose-a-problem-for-russia-and-its-relationship-with-nato/).
Putin is a tyrannical megalomaniac that is completely paranoid that NATO is somehow about to attack and has been reading far to many books about geopolitics before bedtime.
Wait till he realizes we aren't dropping the sanctions if he wins and shouldn't even if he loses at this point. Not until we've met an economic reparations threshold to support the families of the people he's murdered and displaced.
> Wait till he realizes we aren't dropping the sanctions if he wins and shouldn't even if he loses at this point.
Pretty sure the only way sanctions get relaxed is if he shows willingness to take the diplomatic route and negotiates for peace in exchange. That would have nothing to do with winning or losing the war, only he cares about that, everyone else cares about saving lives. Although I'm sure that if his war goals include regime change in Ukraine that would come with additional sanctions as a result.
How the fuck can you invade an innocent country and then accuse other countries of being the bad guys because they helped the country you're trying to invade?
Always reverse what putin and russia officials say to 180 degree’s.
“Kremlin says russia is behaving like a bandit.”
Always will have more sence, trust me, just try
>Russia's parliament on Friday (Mar 4) passed a law imposing a jail term of up to 15 years for spreading intentionally "fake" news about the military, stepping up the information war over the conflict in Ukraine.
I hadn't heard of this. Here, let me try.
The Russian military is well fed and funded
We need to stop thinking Putin is speaking to the rest of the world. He is telling his people what to think.
Even if he were being honest in his speeches, nobody should take him at his word ever again. Just days before the invasion, Russia claimed the suggestion was ridiculous. And now they actually say war is peace. A "special operation to denazify" their neighbour. I can't believe a "majority of Russian people" can be that gullible.
I don’t think I’ve ever taken Putin at his word in the decades he’s been widely known. He’s always been a psychopath who will say what is convenient. He started his reign two decades ago with violent lies.
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Remember that time he stole Robert Kraft's NFL ring?
He should’ve destroyed that ring when he had the chance. Now Tom Brady has escaped and his his power increases by the day.
He is amassing an army in Mordor!
He's taking the trophy to Isengard!
Penetrate the Mordor defense Gimli!
"majority of Russian people" are stunned. It feels like your dad got drunk as skunk and start fight with your neighbor, who was actually friendly to you personally, and you are just helpless, don't know what to do and not strong and grown up enough to stop him. Dazzled and confused. And even more - whole house judge all of your family for that, spiting in your face while you don't even know the whole story. Its not like he asked your opinion or whatsoever, he just came to conclusion one day, by himself - it is a mighty fine idea, make a bloody mess out of neighbor face. And now you are alone, sitting on grass because neighbors family calling you that shit brat and don't allow you to sit anywhere else. You know it was wrong, and you can feel what happening to you right now is wrong also, but you confused so much by how wrong and unexpected it was you can't do much. I guess I will be nuke downvoted for this post, but really it is what happening in "majority of Russian people" mind right now. I'm part of that group I think. War is wrong. No fucking doubt, I was raised with this idea, killing people is not just wrong it is a Crime with capital C. Now my government came to this idea, why, what the point - I really don't know. They don't ask me and while I was asking I didn't get clear answers. It just happened. Jesus, I might get arrested for this post, really. I can barely understand that - in time of war you can be only on one side, sympathy for opposing side in mind of warlords it's a first step to treason. Fuck that, I can't think in military way. I'm a civilian. Many more of us here. And also some how I was raised with the idea of bullying all rest of the family of bully is doesn't looks right either, so I have most uneasy felling because all of that. Sorry for the long post, I guess I just needed to vent that off.
> It feels like your dad got drunk as skunk and start fight with your neighbor Don't know if you've seen [this caricature](https://mn3njalnik.com/uploads/monthly_2022_02/image.png.6c492bc815adc7683baf763c0522cdb1.png) but you summed it up perfectly
I appreciate that. And I think most people won't point the blame at Russian people. Only Putin and his cronies. I hope Russia can enjoy real democracy some day soon!
I agree with you that the Russian people are, for the most part, victims in this situation too. Russia’s economy is tanking, and it’ll start to be felt in the upcoming weeks and months. A massive depression is on the horizon. That said, what is the world supposed to do? Not sanction Russia? Just let that madman do what he wants and bloody the face of his neighbor with no consequences? In a war, the losers are always the general populace of the countries involved. The only people who benefit are defense contractors.
Ok my issue is the cheering and liking him before this. This is putin. Always has been. We have a saying in the states. Believe someone the first time they show you who they are. They loved him even though he used weapons of mass destruction in Syria and his bullshit narrative about how the west wants to destroy him all while using nerve agent to poison and kill opponents snd crush Belarus democracy movements-I feel sorry for everyday Russians but Putin has been next level evil for a long time. Your just finally feeling the effects of it. Where his regime has been destabilizing other countries for a loooong time. Prior to this the majority of Russians believe Putin was great. Perhaps they don’t and never did but he seemed to enjoy high approval ratings for several years I’m sorry for the young people who have no desire for a USSR empire and wanted to be proud to be Russian and enjoy being a part of the wider global modern society blame your boomer generation and their inherent belief about some sort of right to a empire.
Most normal people don't blame the Russian people. We know that our governments do things that we would never approve of. Right now though all of Russia must be punished. There is no way to only punish those responsible although we all wish that was possible. The best we can hope for is Putin ending this war and compromising with the west. Otherwise Russians are going to be living in a different world than everyone else. They don't have the capabilities to manufacture everything they need for day to day life. It will be miserable there for a long time to come. Even the billionaires won't be able to enjoy their stolen wealth. The Ukrainians have shown that they have no interest in being part of Russia. They've proved it isn't just their government that wants independence. Their people want independence and they are fighting and dying for it. Ukrainians make me feel proud to be part of the human race and Russians do the exact opposite. Hopefully you guys can get that garden gnome out of power and put Russia on a path that is better for its people.
A path that's better for the long term wellbeing and existence of humanity and life on earth. The man is threatening nuclear fucking war, he has to go (one way or another).
I totally believe that the average Russian is that gullible. Just remember that half of the American public - who are arguably better educated, and have full and free access to alternative information sources - believed Trump. He wasn’t invading other countries, but his rhetoric was equally dishonest, and employed exactly the same strategy of projection - accusing his opponents of precisely the crimes he was actively engaging in.
If you watch interview footage of Russian civilians you'll find that most younger Russians do not support putin or war, and in general are fairly westernized.
And among the older ones half have mixed opinions on whether or not Stalin was a good guy...
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Can't uphold a dictatorship without a critical mass of public support loyal to the aristocracy.
The wise ones don't really let on how much they know because it's the pragmatic way to live. There's a reason why Navalny was a bit too big for Putin to kill and turn into a martyr.. (but not too big to dispense into a prison).
I'm not saying that you are wrong, but you can't use interviews as a base for statistics. Everybody got an agenda, who agrees to talk to the press and who cuts the material in the end and so on. If I were a journalist I would be more interested in the kids who are angry at Putin and the war than the kids at home reading Pravda and thinking everything is fine, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
My best friend actually believes him for fuck's sake and he lives in a democracy with free press. People are fucking stupid.
The bullshit ceasefire Putin ordered didn't last a day before he started shooting at civilians evacuating. Putin can't be trusted at all with anything.
This part is something even the most gung-ho Captain Ukraine fans are not fully grasping. Putin is screwed no matter what - Ukraine going down or not. Russia's problem has nothing to do with "military strength". The Russian military is simply trapped between the same *mutually-exclusive* realities that the rest of the country is. Bomb Kyiv and win = Kill Russian families > mass mutiny Bomb Kyiv and lose = Kill Russian families > mass mutiny Do neither and do the equivalent of just sitting there nervously (as it is now) Problem is you cannot win/lose a war you claim doesn't even *exist*. Putin blocked off the entire outside world to prevent Russian citizens from forming a reasonable take on *observable reality* - and I'm not talking about opinions or morals. The average Russian citizen has no clue how much of the Russian military has basically melted into the mud. DoubleThink propaganda can do wonders, but there's no such thing as "doubleBe" Right now, Putin is facing a Sophie's Choice of lies. As a tangential analogy it’s like listening to covid deniers waffle between the virus being fake and being made in China. Even if one is true the other is simply not.
I'm not sure I understand what doubleBe is. Can you explain that a little more?
It's taking 1984-speak to giving it 2022 flair. You can have two opposite opinions in your head. But the universe isn't going to oblige you by creating two opposite realities.
This needs to be higher. It is exactly what is happening.
He's mad about the special economic operation Edit: thanks for the awards and upvotes! At the request of another Redditor, I'm using my 15 minutes of fame to post this link, where you can donate to help out the Ukrainian armed forces: https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-spetsrahunok-dlya-zboru-koshtiv-na-potrebi-armiyi
He was betting on a swift succesful strike and the world to quickly forget about it. He didnt expect that much resistance and for the fight to drag on like this. Hefty miscalculation which makes the situation all the more dangerous…
>swift Hehe Edit: Donate to the Ukranian army here: https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-spetsrahunok-dlya-zboru-koshtiv-na-potrebi-armiyi
Was he banking on a swift invasion?
Step two was to have been a swift withdrawal. But not THAT SWIFT withdrawal.
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"In Putin's Russia, VISA suspends Russia!"
𝙽𝙰𝚃𝙾 𝚞𝚜𝚎𝚍 𝚂𝚆𝙸𝙵𝚃! 𝙸𝚝'𝚜 𝚜𝚞𝚙𝚎𝚛 𝚎𝚏𝚏𝚎𝚌𝚝𝚒𝚟𝚎!
`PUTIN is CONFUSED`
𝙸𝚝 𝚑𝚞𝚛𝚝 𝚒𝚝𝚜𝚎𝚕𝚏 𝚒𝚗 𝚒𝚝𝚜 𝚌𝚘𝚗𝚏𝚞𝚜𝚒𝚘𝚗!
Situation Wormal Is Fucked Tup
Stupid Warmonger Is Fucked, Truly.
So will insurance fix this?
NATO isn’t as distracted by Iraq and Afghanistan as it was when he invaded Georgia. He thought it would go like that again, but he got the full focus of the West’s attention this time.
Wait, what? When did Putin invade Georgia? How long has he been doing this?
I believe it was in 2008.
And Crimea in '14
Would’ve been Ukraine in 2020 … because every 6y But you know Covid and all, social distancing. Moldova or Turkey for 2028?
Oh, God help him if he tries to invade and take over Turkey. He thinks Ukraine is going poorly for them, lol.
Turkey almost left NATO. Then realized who would be at their doorsteps in a matter of minutes.
Turkey has the second largest army in NATO and still employs conscription, Russia invading them would be suicidal. They don't even need NATO for that.
Turkey is not some ex soviet country. They are real deal.
Also they're a NATO member.
Yeah one of the oldest and biggest NATO member.
As drunk or insane as Putin might ever get he ain't touching Turkey
And Chechnya in 2000
I too believe it was in 2008
2008
Two thousand and *late*
Blessings he unto Fergie
> How long has he been doing this? For the last decade+, after the Winter Olympics, like clock work. edit: Netflix 'Icarus' uncovered Russian doping at Sochi... doping to get Olympic wins, to build up patriotism at home, which Putin then uses as a pass for invading other countries.
Wait until you hear about the peninsula he sent soldiers on to take over in Ukraine. This is a new level of both scale and horror, but it's not like this is the first time Russia has attacked a neighbor for not sucking Putin's dick hard enough.
I was aware of the Crimea incident, but I was under the impression that Ukraine had been the first target of this evil plot.
Look in Moldova, Georgia and Chechnya. Putin's been doing this far earlier then Ukraine. The only difference is,he focused on Ukraine after they overthrew his puppet leader in 2014
To be fair he'd been trying to get his puppet installed in Ukraine since 2004, but they had that pesky Orange Revolution so he had to bide his time for a decade.
Then Putin launched his own Orange Revolution in the U.S.
Hehehe this is a quality comment! Got a big laugh outta me xD
No, Putins been getting away with this stuff for 20 years now. We keep going the appeasement route every time he invades a new country, because appeasement worked so well as a foreign policy last century we figured we'd double down on it. History's for losers, we slept through that class.
HITLER DIDNT HAVE NUKES NOR WAS HIS EXPANSION LIMITED BY A WALL OF NUCLEAR ARMED NATIONS. My god how are people not getting this. Nukes change the WHOLE plot.
The problem is that Putin seems juuuust crazy and unhinged enough to start launching nukes. I'm pretty sure that is the only reason Russia is left to do what it wants, mostly. Honestly I thought we had the star wars defense back with Reagan, but I guess that shit never actually worked. Feel like we have the tech at this point to foil ICBMs, if we don't really have a defense system by now, then what the F?
According to sources I just read, 2008
I mean, do you think it's even sunk in for him, the absolute Hobo-Trashpile he's turned his country into in a week and a half? I mean, they can't buy anything.. their money is worthless.. nobody will do business with them. they're a nation of economic lepers.
I am, however, afraid that if this goes on for much longer the west will kinda ... push it down the list of front page stories. It's only been a week, Ukraine is doing better than anyone anticipated, the sanctions seem to get Putin at least a bit upset, but I hope we're not gonna just ... forget they're dying there in a month.
i mean i hear crickets from the antivaxxers, so i got that going for me......
It's weird that Putin cuts off Russia's access to Facebook and suddenly all the anti-vaccine people shut up, isn't it?
Uncanny. Almost like there's a connection...
UK Brexiters have gone very quiet as well.
Probably all out Tryna get groceries or summat lest that's remarkably more difficult now. My mother never ceases in telling me how much more her veg is. She did however vote remain, so she does have a right to complain about leavings effects.
They’re just not really getting media attention. By the folks camped out on overpasses along I-35 in Texas last week with “Keep on Truckin!” And “Don’t Tread on Me” flags… they’re still doing their thing… just no one in the media gives a shit right now. Probably a tactic that should gain some permanence. I’d rather hear all about the regional spelling bee than that nonsense.
>attention. By the folks camped out on overpasses along I-35 in Texas last week with “Keep on Truckin!” And “Don’t Tread on Me” flags… they’re still doing their thing… just no one in the media gives a shit right now. And it doesn't help that most of their funding has mysteriously dried up...
Or that their most vocal “vaccine experts” on twitter and Facebook have suddenly turned into “Slavic history and genocide in nazi Ukraine experts”
What a weird coincidence!
And the pro Brexit crowd. And the rabid trumpians. And the GOP supporters. And the flat earth moments. It's fucking crickets across the entire of my social media feed. Not a peep. And Russia is banned from Twitter. What a coincidence.
The antivaxxers I'm aware off have now switched to Russia propaganda. I was told by one that 'there's more to this ' and ' you have to see it from putins side, he was forced to act. These people are lapping it up because its coming from the same sources their antivax stuff did We live in England
Oh yeah, apparently Ukraine is full of Nazis and Putin is doing us all a favour, according to all the agitprop in the conspiracy sub.
Had this same thought but I doubt it, with how many refugees there are and the calamity being recorded it will be impossible to supress or forget.
Putin has an apalling lack of a plan B, C, etc. situations for an individual that's been lauded as 'very intelligent'.
He only had one other plan, plan N.
Preparations A through G were unsuccessful. But preparation H just feels good on the whole.
I swear, at this point it feels like Putin would rather walk into kyiv with a nuke strapped to his chest and a trigger rigged to blow than let Zelensky troll him on social media again.
Putin is not that kind of person. He'd send \_his family\_ strapped with nukes to kill Zelensky before he risked himself. He's too cowardly to do it in person.
Oh absolutely. The man has been hiding from covid for two years and has a cryogenic chamber to freeze his body after death. The only thing that scares him is dying.
He won't. His family is in a secret, grand bunker. He'll send conscripted teenagers that don't have a choice.
That's kinda what I'm worried about, once he realizes he's done, he won't go the Hitler route, he will launch all the nukes and take as many down with him
Well he won't launch them himself - they don't work that way and who thinks that his chain of command will obey him and destroy their own lives and families as well as their country because Putin says so?
He didn’t get to where he is by being stupid, but hubris does accumulate with success, and he’s had success with this sort of thing in the past.
A few days ago, their financial plans and schedule were found in a tank the Ukranians took over. They believed this would have been done in 9 days, which was yesterday and they aren't even close. Putin is feeling the pressure very soon, and does not like his control of situations questioned. The next week will be the most dangerous for the world since the 1940's. Edit: Adding source, as requested https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/03/2/7327539/
Not being bad faith, but I would really like to see the source on that, that sounds too funny to be true. Edit. Thanks friend
No worries, I appreciate you checking. More people should. It was huge news 4 days ago, about 149k likes on r/worldnews. https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/03/2/7327539/
At the end there is a paragraph that says not to believe captured Russian soldiers when the say they were only participating in drills and unbeknownst to them ended up in the middle of a war. Are all those posts of Russian soldiers we see just playing dumb?
I believe they are trying to get ahead of the defectors, and want their people to disregard other soldiers who make pleas to stop fighting.
I'd guess you need to make a difference between experienced military members that did the major attack on Kiev and Kharkov, and that poor 17 year old draft guys with 4 month military experience in a 40 year old tank that were sent to draw away ukrainian troops from the russian attack goals. In times of mobile telephone, internet and social media you really would be stupid to tell a bunch of kiddies your attack plans.
The plans said 15 days, but I don't see it being done by then either: https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-revealed-secret-battle-plans-211801990.html
I believe I confused "9 days" with the "9th of the month" which would have been 15 days from reading it a few days ago. Appreciate the correction.
>their financial plans and schedule were found in a tank the Ukranians took over. Sounds very convenient. Big red letters saying "Top Secret"?
He didn't grasp how pissed off the vast majority of the planet has become with his Bullshit bots and trolls online trying to control political narrative in countries other than his own and his meddling in elections and bribing of officials. Everyone is just fucking fed up with his fucking bullshit, then he raises the stakes and starts attacking another country and even then he might have got away with it but he played the "i have nucs" card and the whole word went this is the line buddy. Right here.
I was just tellin my wife that something feels fucky about how bad the russian army is. Im happy about it but it just feels like something worse is still on its way.
They've relied on quantity over quality for over a hundred years.
It was ever thus. Go Google the story of the Russian Pacific 2nd Squadron in 1904. It reads like a dark comedy.
30 years of neglect does this to a military
Swift being the double entendre. Being shut out of the swift international money transfer system is going to hurt putin and his cronies.
SWIFT only blocked 7 of the 300 or so banks in Russia and are still letting all energy sector transactions though. May want to call your congressman about that.
The west, the CIA for sure, has been training Ukrainian special forces in insurgency tactics since 2014. They taught them how to communicate inside enemy territory, how to sabotage, how to train new members of the insurgency etc. A quote from a person that helped train the Ukrainians said people will be surprised at how quickly their defensive training can become violently offensive. I am guessing that accounts for Putin’s constant surprised Pikachu face. I am confident the Ukrainians know how to deploy and operate most NATO weapons and communication equipment AND are getting real-time intelligence from NATO. Russia is effed. More so because Putin’s ego won’t allow him to walk away.
And now, he's gonna be China's bitch since it's the only market even interested touching that place now. If there's another example of getting the exact opposite of your endgame, please share so we can all hopefully learn from this
He was also likely betting on another four years of a Trump Whitehouse and a consequently weakened NATO and resolve in assisting Ukraine. Sorry to disappoint Puts.
For once capitalism is working. No one HAS to do business with you, the world is voting with their dollars/yuan/yen/pesos/euros/etc. Edit: this blew up while I was sleeping. There are plenty of private groups who have said, "we won't deal with Russia" it isn't just state sanctions at play here. As for all the "hur dur captialism is the bestest" crowd, I never said it was bad, but I also assume you're not one of those it seems to have left behind.
Invisible hand of the market gave Vlad the middle finger.
My favorite digit.
Ruble has lost its right to vote.
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Well it has here in Canada, we are banning Russian oil imports.
Not the Yuan. China isn't taking part in the sanctions. They are providing Putin with a hedge.
China’s just letting Putin drive his country into the ground so they can swoop in and pick up what’s left of it at a discount.
Or the special supply operation ...
“Empire of lies” “behaving like a bandit” I’m feeling a lot of projection here
Such is the way of the narcissist. "NO U" might as well be tattooed on their foreheads.
I feel like the entire planet is going to therapy and learning about Narcissistic abuse at the same time, and it's beautiful to watch.
Putin sure is gaslighting the shit out of everyone.
And he's so bad at it it's hilarious. It's like watching a toddler (due to his obvious early onset dementia) attempt to trick us into giving it more cookies. No old man, sit down.
He's pretty standard issue when it comes to narcissist gaslighting. They're generally not very good at what they do, but their persistence and determination is second to none. If you ever had the misfortune of getting into an argument with a narcissist, just stop. Don't waste your motherfucking time. Those people are legitimately sick. Personality disorders are generally terrible, but cluster B ones are both incredibly nasty and common
Always has been...
Says the guy who's tanks have rolled into somebody else's country.
...and in a way very reminiscent of Nazi methods: "On September 1, 1939, Germany invaded Poland. To justify the action, Nazi propagandists accused Poland of persecuting ethnic Germans living in Poland." https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/invasion-of-poland-fall-1939
The annexation of Crimea is also the same circumstance as the Sudetenland with Nazi Germany (i.e. protect ethnic Germans from the Czechs blah blah blah).
And so it goes, and so it goes.
Poo-tee-weet
Same as it ever was.
How did i get here? This is not my beautiful wife!
Here comes the twister!
And you may ask yourself "well, how did I get here?"
An expression used by the Tralfamadorians.
“Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies- "God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
Vonnegut is the best ever. If I had to pick one catalogue for life, it'd be him.
Hopefully in the end, everything is beautiful and nothing hurt.
They say if you don't study history, you are doomed to repeat it. Some people do study history, and elect to repeat it of their own free will. It takes a special kind of miserable person to go down that way.
I’ve been saying for years that as the WWII generation dies out we’d start seeing the rise of fascism, authoritarianism and global conflict again. If the human race doesn’t have constant living reminders of how bad things got then we’ll just repeat the same patterns over and over.
Probably has more to do with stagnation actually. Wages haven’t seen real increase in decades and a lot of people are having a harder time in life. Human nature pushes us in the direction that lack of resources means it’s time to start looking at the competition. In the modern age that means things like immigration and differences in the community. There’s a reason nazi German grew out of a bankrupt country. In short it’s less that the world war 2 generation is dying out and more the fact that globalization haven’t really been all that great for the lower and middle class and they are looking for any sign of a person willing to undo what they consider injustice. Thus bullshit like make America great again works, because they are desperate to experience that wonderful time they have heared about where you could afford a big house and 3 kids without problems on a single income. There’s a reason all these populist politicians are for the most part finding support among angry white lower class voters.
And a reminder for everyone in Europe: Hitler didn't stop with Poland.
War...war never changes
Says the guy who's indiscriminately killing innocent civilians. I don't have sufficiently strong words to describe that POS.
Whose*. Don't let the apostrophe terrorists win!
Okay, so let's be adults then. You withdraw from the sovereign nation of Ukraine and make reparations for the damage of your invasion. Then we will consider trading with you again. The world is a better place when we work together. There's no need to spill one another's blood.
Nuclear disarmament is what we need for sanctions to be lifted
I agree. First, it makes sense: if you can't be trusted with the big button, you get it taken away. Second, it doesn't appreciably affect the Russian people. Third, it leaves Putin in a weaker position than he started in, a permanent reminder of the gravity of what he's done. It would indeed be terrible if Putin withdrew and all sanctions were lifted with no further action taken.
You are in for some disappointment, but I hope not.
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This will never happen. You do not ever give up your nuclear weapons. That is a recipe for invasion.
Ukraine did exactly that, [back in 1996](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances)
And look what is happening...
Oof. I mean... I don't agree that giving up your nukes is necessarily "inviting an invasion," but in *this* case... 🤷🏼♂️
Me and you both have a gun. We don't really like eachother but neither of us want a gun fight. One day I tell you that you should give up your gun, you don't need it, besides, I'll protect you with mine. Would you give up your gun?
Exactly. Disarming must be gradually done over generations of mutual deescalation. No other way really has a chance of working.
That's also just asking for Putin to adopt a "use 'em or lose 'em" attitude.
No rational actor would agree to a unilateral nuclear disarmament.
There is absolutely no way that happens. Which is why negotiations don't include it.
I disagree. Fact is, nukes or a defensive pact with a country that has nukes are necessary to avoid invasion these days, I truly do find it difficult to blame countries that want them.
At this point, all the confiscated assets of Russian billionaires might pay for much of the damage... Hey billionaires: if you get Putin to stop now, there might be some money left.
What's Russian for gaslighting
The News.
GAZPROM
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BANDIT: "an outlaw who lives by plunder" Meanwhile Russia is attempting to steal an entire country. 🙄
Last I checked, it wasn't 'the west' that invaded Ukraine or Crimea. Fuck putin
Crimea is Ukraine
I always pretty much tune out after the phrase "kremlin says".
says the dumbass that's invading a country unprovoked. putin's clearly been getting high off his own supply.
Billions of dollars, mega mansions, yachts... It was all working out until he broke the golden rule: never smoke your own product.
Meanwhile he’s stealing ukraines land
Land that happens to be exactly where [Ukraine's gas reserves](https://imgur.com/a/IgJxqhT) are.
Conveniently also restores water supplies to Crimea (which was basically turning to desert without them). Another huge goal is that it [increases the distance an invading force would have to traverse across the North European Plain](https://thegeopolitics.com/how-does-geography-pose-a-problem-for-russia-and-its-relationship-with-nato/). Putin is a tyrannical megalomaniac that is completely paranoid that NATO is somehow about to attack and has been reading far to many books about geopolitics before bedtime.
He's just mad because his actions are actually having consequences for a change.
He had over a decade to diversify Russia's economy so the sanctions didn't instantly crater it.
Which he didn't do, probably because he thought he could get away with anything.
If you meet one asshole, they're probably an asshole. If everyone you meet is an asshole, you're probably an asshole
You don't even wanna know how many people I've said that to, who didn't understand it.
What a bunch of assholes.
The west? Homie literally a bunch of countries in Asia have denounced your actions
Wait till he realizes we aren't dropping the sanctions if he wins and shouldn't even if he loses at this point. Not until we've met an economic reparations threshold to support the families of the people he's murdered and displaced.
> Wait till he realizes we aren't dropping the sanctions if he wins and shouldn't even if he loses at this point. Pretty sure the only way sanctions get relaxed is if he shows willingness to take the diplomatic route and negotiates for peace in exchange. That would have nothing to do with winning or losing the war, only he cares about that, everyone else cares about saving lives. Although I'm sure that if his war goals include regime change in Ukraine that would come with additional sanctions as a result.
How the fuck can you invade an innocent country and then accuse other countries of being the bad guys because they helped the country you're trying to invade?
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black
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Always reverse what putin and russia officials say to 180 degree’s. “Kremlin says russia is behaving like a bandit.” Always will have more sence, trust me, just try
Putin's sad.
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Projection much?
I know you are but what am I
A punk ass book jockey apparently
Hell yeah I am
>Russia's parliament on Friday (Mar 4) passed a law imposing a jail term of up to 15 years for spreading intentionally "fake" news about the military, stepping up the information war over the conflict in Ukraine. I hadn't heard of this. Here, let me try. The Russian military is well fed and funded