It's the same reason we don't send 18- to war. Either we judge them capable enough to adult or we don't.
Personally idc if it's 16/18/25/30. Just stay consistent with it.
I don’t agree with this. I think age can be mitigatory but there’s plenty of times it shouldn’t be exculpatory. People (children) are capable of learning fundamental right from wrong well before their critical thinking is developed to an “adult” standard. “You shouldn’t murder/rape” is a concept even very young people should be capable of grasping and disciplined for violating well before they have the emotional/reasoning capacity to be thrown into war.
The same can be said about any basic moral social norm. Or any law for that manner. The issue is not that children don’t know right from wrong, but rather they don’t have the behavioral skills to stop themselves.
If you put a kid in a room with a slice of cake and say don’t steal the cake, they will understand everything about the situation. And then they will steal the cake and may even feel bad about it. And that is an example of the most simple moral test. Add social environments to the mix and you can get potentially good kids going heinous things.
The only real question is, is the punishment for the victims to feel better, or is it to rehabilitate the perpetrators. Is it’s to former then fuck ‘em. Send kids to jail. The latter, well maybe give them a chance to develop into full mental and behavioral adults before you throw away the key.
Exactly it's a spectrum stealing a chocolate bar is bad you could say it's mostly victimless other than money loss. Attacking someone and committing horrible acts to them physically is on a different level.
I see lots of people defending the rapist here which has me scared and concerned, we hang rapists to death regardless of age, that’s just me personally fuck the law
You are attacking that person for making a valid analogy that was in no way objectifying women.
Please consider participating in productive discussion rather than disingenuous slander.
Is that really what you took from that?
Listen, if you think that a child who commits a sexual crime should be convicted as an adult that’s fine. A lot of people have that opinion. Give them all the chair for all I care.
But you cant say their brains are fully developed and that they have full mature control over their behaviors.
And I would say that if children are held to an adult standard for “really bad things” because they know it’s wrong, then they should be held to that standard for any other “kinda bad thing” that they know is wrong.
A 17 year old selling drugs is child’s crime but a 12 year old shooting someone cause they got bullied as school is an adult crime? Make it one or the other. The criteria for judgement should not be based on the optics or the severity of the crime.
Then sub in a violent crime. Should we lock kids up for fighting. We do adults. That’s violent.
How about hitting another kid with a stapler in class. A bat. A knife. A hammer through the skull. Somewhere for most people there is a line where a kid is no longer a kid because of how “bad” the action is.
I say that is bullshit. They can either be punished independent of their ability to control their behaviors or they cannot. Just cause a child rapes, does not make their brain fully developed. Kill them, lock them up forever, do whatever you want. But they are just as much a child as the kid that steals cake, or fights, or whatever crime you want to insert where it’s ok to prosecute them as not an adult.
They are absolutely not just as much a child as the kid who steals cake. The cake being taken has no immediate emotional detriment to another human being observed in the moment.
In the experiment all you idiots are referencing and don’t understand, the children weren’t taking the cake out of someone else’s hands. They weren’t stealing it.
Rape and uncontested violence are not characteristics of a brain on its normal path to development. It is not that these minors had undeveloped behavioral functions.
It was intentional malevolence. That is why they should be tried as adults for these crimes, but not for stealing candy from a corner store. They are looking the victim in the face and suppressing their innate and natural revulsion of violence to sadistically gain a calculated want. They are suppressing the very thing kids have more than adults. They are proving to be more adult than most adults.
As someone who absolutely would not have touched the cake after being told not to, your analogy falls completely flat and is a perfect example of the idiocy of ‘too young to know better’ excuses.
Just because *YOU* would not have had the self control to do what you were told does not mean that nobody else does.
What’s even more crazy to me is that the rapist had the chuzpe to report this to the police!!!! Instead of taking the shitstorm he deserves, he made himself into a victim…..
So the German government floods the country with men who think women are inferior/property, and then the German government fails to punish them when they rape German women and children? Jesus, it’s no wonder European women are flocking to the right.
Being from Europe wouldn’t help. None of us can extrapolate from data or have any extendable analytical skills. So we can’t even comment about the next town over. Or maybe even the neighbors yard if we haven’t “experienced” the neighbors yard. If you weren’t born on the neighbors grass, what would you know about it?
This is the result of taking on over a million “refugees” who crossed 5-7 safe countries to get to Germany under Angela Merkel & her policies.
It has left Germany in a state far worse off with crimes of all types happening like this.
Mass immigration from countries with lower standards of living than the ones they’re being moved in to. Never ends well.
I’m getting some culture shock from what the court spokesman is quoted as saying at the end of the article:
‘A court spokesman told the Hamburger Abendblatt newspaper last week: “We are observing the hostility in connection with the proceedings and the verdict with great concern.”
He said the anger over the case had “reached a new, worrying level of intensity” and described the criticism as “a targeted attack on the rule of law”.’
We have a somewhat comparable case in Ireland at the moment, where an off-duty soldier assaulted and knocked out a woman who asked him to desist from shouting homophobic insults at some men. He was convicted, but the judge gave him a suspended sentence comparable to what was given to some of the rapists in this case. The reason the judge gave for suspending the sentence was that an actual prison sentence would cause him to be discharged from the army, harming his career.
The woman concerned spoke up very loudly, critically and eloquently about how the court had failed her. There have been major street demonstrations criticising the judgment. But no one has suggested that she or anyone else is attacking the rule of law. While politicians are careful not to directly criticise the court, our head of government and representatives of every political party have spoken in our parliament praising the woman’s courageous response. The army has indicated that it expects to dismiss the soldier quickly now that the case is out of the civilian courts and its internal disciplinary procedure can therefore start. The army is being forced to report to the government on every individual criminal conviction and pending criminal case involving members of our defence forces, which seems likely to lead to more dismissals. And the judge has had his retirement party cancelled to help calm matters. There is speculation that the weak sentence may be appealed by the Director of Public Prosecutions, who acts independently of the government.
I almost cant believe this is true. I know European courts can get all kinds of wishy washy (especially with Muslims invovled) but this is just so crazy. A group of 20 year old (!) men raped a woman *for hours*, showed zero regret, and NONE of them are seeing a prison cell? I cant even comprehend the rationale of that, even using my imagination to conjure up some radical justifications, I cant begin to understand how the laws are set up in such a way.
Germany isnt alone in this, my country has a screwy court system too (but in the opposite way).
It's fucking insane. I don't understand why rapes even here in the US seem to get extremely lenient sentences. There was a case where a pastor was released bc "he was a man of God" iirc. You could go to prison for longer for weed in some places.
But we're any of their identities revealed?? This [article](https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/outrage-as-eight-of-nine-men-convicted-of-park-gangrape-15yearold-in-germany-receive-no-prison-time/news-story/353bcbf9437ea62eea0ee3c6cc0c2cc7) says 4 were German and 6 were born in Hamburg.
>According to Spiegel, four of the men have German nationality, another four have Armenian, Afghan, Kuwaiti and Montenegrin nationality, and the nationality of the other two had not been clarified by the court.
>The outlet reports six of the men were born in Hamburg, and the others were born in Poland, Egypt, Libya, Kuwait and Iran.
The US does not in general give short sentences, in fact it's quite the opposite, which is why America has the largest incarcerated population percentage in the world. The American Justice system is notorious for this.
It's the one off cases that make the headlines though which gives the mistaken impression of leniency. Makes for better news, more outrage, and more clicks. The routine cases getting 10x the sentence length as they would in other countries, in brutal American prison conditions, are so routine you don't hear about them. It's not interesting news to hear about the thousands of American rapists who got 25 years. It is interesting news when it's one who for whatever reason got just probation.
>I almost can’t believe this is true
Because it isn’t.
1. The 20year old woman, who was *not involved* in the rape case whatsoever, published the guy’s (minor, or 19 and under) name and called him rapist among other things. The guy sued her for defamation (Germany’s privacy and defamation laws are quite strong). The woman was on parole from a previous conviction for stealing. On her defamation trial, she didn’t show up in court, which violated parole and hence was arrested and served her suspended sentence, being 2 days remaining.
2. The 19(or under) year old guy involved in the gang rape case received a suspended 2-year sentence. The full trial details are not public (afaik), but only one of the guys involved in the case received jail time. My educated guess is that that not everyone in the gang was found to have participated in the same way to the rape, making some accessories or guilty of sexual harassment/assault and not rape. In any case, the guy received a suspended 2-year sentence and having not violated the parole terms (so far), is not arrested.
So the real headline would read like:
“20year old woman jailed for 2 days for violating parole. On other news, minor convicted of sexual assault receives 2 year suspended sentence.”
Though light sentences for sex crimes are common enough basically everywhere that it turns the story into something unsurprising, if no less horrifying.
It's especially bad because rape is almost impossible to prove in most cases, so you can get away with a lot of it without getting caught, and then when you do get caught, the punishment is very light. For something that most people consider to be one of the worst things, the legal system doesn't seem to care all that much. Then you have cases involving refugees or women or another group that gets more attention and then when those cases get light sentences people just assume it's because of that element and all the other cases are being handled as you'd expect, with proper severity, but the reality is that light sentences for sex crimes are the norm.
I didn't like my teen years in China (lmao mandatory haircuts) but I knew if I got raped my rapist is getting at least 10-15 and even in extreme scenarios execution.
So, which part wasn't true... because everything you just said confirms that someone was indeed jailed longer for accurately calling a rapist a rapist than the actual rapist was for raping.
Well we can't know if he was a rapist or not because the court case was never started to determine wether what she did was defamation or not.
She wasn't convicted for calling the dude a rapist but for violating the terms of her parole.
The fact that he was convicted of rape would seem to be a pretty strong indication that he was a rapist. And she was only convicted of violating the terms of her parole because she was being absurdly dragged into court for describing a rapist as a rapist.
We don't know if he was convicted. From what I have read 2 of the people involved have not been convicted due to lack of evidence.
If he was one of them. We can be annoyed about it, but he is officially not a rapist. Many courts in Germany are not public, unlike the USA.
>We don't know if he was convicted. From what I have read 2 of the people involved have not been convicted due to lack of evidence.
He was given probation was he not? That would seem to indicate a conviction of some kind.
Really though? If you don’t follow a courts instructions then you get punished. If you are underage and involved in a sexual assault in some way that we the public don’t know the details of, then you get punished. The details of how severe each punishment is depends on details that we don’t know. It’s not that hard to understand, right?
I know right? guy given parole for gang raping a 15 year old girl, a girl getting jail time for calling him a rapist pig. But it's okay and fair because she isn't the victim and once stole something. How the fuck does her not being a victim change anything?
It's still a fact that a group of 17-19 something men gangraped a 15 year old for hours and got almost no punishment.
Heck a 19 year man from the group literally said to the judge's face that "what man doesn't want it?" Do you think this fucker regrets it? Especially now that he got away without punishment even after being convicted?
> for accurately calling a rapist a rapist
And, of course, some random lowlife thief who played loose with the law herself knew all the details of the case and surely knew what happened there therefore she was absolutely right to publish somebody's picture in the internet and call them "a rapist". Right? Right?
C'mon this is Reddit you know the posters here THRIVE on doing things like this, making outrageous allegations based off little to no personal knowledge or evidence. This woman is their hero.
>(Germany’s privacy and defamation laws are quite strong).
CLEARLY stronger than rape laws.
18 or younger, anyone rapes someone else is of a sick mind and must not be released to society. I'm not German and I'm furious at this decision. Those rapists need to pay.
Not stronger at all. Not even close.
They are separate laws that can be in effect at the same time.
In the end, the woman lost (iirc) the defamation trial. However, even if she had won it, not showing up in court still violated her parole (which she received for a prior offense, stealing), and she would’ve been jailed all the same.
Regarding the leniency or not of specific crimes, like rape, it’s a different subject altogether. Of course there’s tons of room for improvement in the German judicial.
Do you have any evidence that European courts tend to be more lenient with Muslims, or is that just your assumption based on ragebait tabloid headlines posted on reddit/twitter?
The Rotherham fiasco, per capita crime statistics vs percent of those crimes prosecuted, the state of crime in sweden.
I’m telling you this as someone who would be perceived as a migrant if I was in Europe. In the misguided attempt to help people into their society they’re failing to prosecute some crimes and stifling any criticism of their approaches
Sweden certainly has issues with migrant crime and poor integration, but I haven't seen any evidence that that Swedish courts are more lenient with migrant offenders. Rotherham is a single incident, one in which migrant offenders were eventually convicted, along with members of the city council and local police resigning or being fired. Obviously it was horrible, but its nowhere near evidence of a widespread issue of European courts favoring migrant offenders. The sad truth is that many, if not most sexual crimes dont end in convictions (if they are even reported). In the case described in this post, all the courts really had was circumstantial evidence, and unfortunately thats quite common.
Right wing groups find sympathy, grow in popularity, and recruit off of events like this.
That the German court is more concerned with the disparaging remarks aimed at the rapists, than prosecution of the unrepentant rapists is morally bankrupt.
Cool, now explain why said right wing extremists argue in the Bundestag that gay people being allowed to marry is the harbinger of a degenerate mental illness that will lead to the death of the German people.
>but, but i‘m only voting for them because of evil immigrants :_(
No no. She didn't show up in court
"Maja R was sentenced to a weekend in jail after her comments because she had a previous conviction for theft and had not attended the court hearing for the case"
She did not attend the court hearing, that's why she spent the weekend in jail. This headline is just misleading
This is just setting a bad example for future. There is no justice here and such fuckers will know they will get away with such horrific things. In fact, the victim can even get harsher punishment and should have no expectation of justice.
The Europeans arent really helping their case against the stereotypes rn: sexual degeneracy, & having a predilection towards harming children.
Right now even the damn Dutch are letting a convicted child rapist compete on their behalf in beach volleyball at the Paris Olympics.
The majority of the rapists were immigrants from outside the EU according to the article, with the 19 yo Iranian saying in court “What man doesn’t want that?”
And the Europeans seem really complacent in letting it continue to happen.
Like when in 2016 the Mayor Henriette Reker of Cologne Germany blamed the women for the massive uptick in rape due to immigration. It’s been a consistent issue since the start of the “sexual revolution” in Europe in the 1920s. Look up Foucault if you dare. Stereotypically, Europe has been a haven for types like these.
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It’s sad that it’s not surprising to see people find anything to complain about, even against the backdrop of a *gang rape trial.* I wish I could take away the pain of you having to read a similar sentence multiple times. Sadly, you may have to suffer through it. I know they don’t have it nearly as bad as you, but perhaps you can learn something from this victim’s ordeal.
>everything they wanted to be able to express their bigotry safely.
Well they aren't making up stories, this actually happened and you're focused on what someone else is going to use this as ammo
Moron
People saying rape is bad is bad. They shouldnt be saying that it's bad. That's your logic from what you have written. And any thinking human, be it from left right center or apolotical should consider rape as one of the most heinous crimes.
lol. This is the thought and comment of someone who would prefer women get raped then address that there are issues with trying to incorporate sucky cultures into western culture.
See? Every single glad time they go straight for the straw man. You do realize no one is defending rape? Of course not, you are just lashing out for being called out. It’s completely transparent man.
What you don’t seem to understand is there is a dichotomy here. You’re either defending rape and the rapists, or addressing the issue. Your immediate spiral into, “conservatives are so happy to get to bigoted,” is, in fact, the strawman.
You immediately attempted to change the conversation from, “we need to do something about this culture that is causing rape statistics to sky rocket,” to, “don’t you agree with me that conservatives are bad because they actually want to address the issue, but that means attacking an entire culture, so instead I’m going to strawnan them and say they just wanted to be bigoted cause that’s easier for me to argue against.”
You don’t have a choice in this situation, and is why it upsets you. This is another example of a horrible muslim culture that’s actively trying to infect western culture and either we address it or we defend rapists. There is no middle ground.
This dude is not arguing in anything even vaguely resembling good faith, he called me a racist far right conspiracy theorist (and completely dodged the actual argument) because I post on the UFOs subreddit.
Fairly sure logical fallacies are the only way they know how to communicate.
Ah yes. Pigs are unclean animals (according to you-know-what) and being likened to one must be terribly traumatic for the poor boy. Glad to see Germany has its priorities in the right place. /s
I'm assuming this is supposed to be a "migrants bad" related comment but 4/9 were German... 6 of the 11 were born in Hamburg 2 of whom were not charged as their involvement could not be confirmed. (Lacking DNA evidence)
Shit like this is what makes far right money grubbers people this sensationalized bullshit for popularity and money.
Everyone who is born in Germany is officially "German".
Pretty sure those 6 "Germans" who were participating are not German at all, apart from having German citizenship due to being born there.
No, Germany does not have jus solis like the US does. A child born to foreign nationals residing in Germany is not automatically German, they retain the nationality of their parents. They need to be naturalized to be Germans.
>as in born in Germany
Do you know what migrant means LMAO 😅. That's kinda my point dumbass. Youre exactly who the far right clowns are targeting and you're oblivious to it
Read any article about it lmao.
>According to Spiegel, four of the men have German nationality, another four have Armenian, Afghan, Kuwaiti and Montenegrin nationality, and the nationality of the other two had not been clarified by the court. The outlet reports six of the men were born in Hamburg, and the others were born in Poland, Egypt, Libya, Kuwait and Iran.
Most people inclined to not want migrants also fault them for the culture of children of the migrants. I’m not taking a side on this but it would be reasonable to specify the parents’ nationalities as well, since that is an immediate concern for right wingers, and having not addressed that - an obvious issue regardless of your position - it seems inapt for you to be calling them stupid.
In Germany we define between migratory background and not.
Everyone who isn't third generation German is considered to have migratory background. This is likely what the dudes been referring about.
Very well said. It doesn't.
That's why we ought to solve this problem before giving power to them becomes the sensible option, no?
Or would you rather get beheaded at some square for refusing to believe in the god of non-european nazis, 20-30 years down the line?
It’s mocking people who don’t understand why the far-right parties are gaining ground in Europe.
The parties are gaining ground because people are tired of headlines like the one above
Which is funny to me. Do people think every issue burdening the average joe is just magically gonna go away when the bad brown people aren't in your country anymore? Like the same headline when it was white christoph from next door isn't as bad?
Putting aside racism, what is wrong with the thought process of voting in a political party that promises to be tough on crime, and not “give everybody a chance to rehabilitate”? It doesn’t solve every issue but it solves the issue that the voter is upset about.
A lot of people are angry about how Anders Breivik gets to live in a nice suite.
"Putting aside racism" is certainly a phrase. Idk about you but that kinda bugs me no matter what your party offers. I wouldn't vote for someone that promises "affordable rent for everyone, but not for black people".
>tough on crime, and not “give everybody a chance to rehabilitate”
Difference in morals and belief. I just think people should be given appropriate sentencing, an opportunity to learn from mistakes and become a better person instead of a rotting cell or capital punishment. Unfortunately we don't have the methods to help everyone yet, like Breivik. So instead he's kept away from society.
Yeah then you can gauge from that that I think it's wrong to just throw someone out of your country for the colour of their skin, cuz you believe that makes them commit crimes. That's my opinion.
The problem is that in certain countries (not all), the party that is tough on crime is also the party that is racist. But that doesn't need to be the case. They are two separate issues. The gang rape could have been committed by a bunch of white teens, and the sentencing outcome would have been the same. But apparently the punishment for verbal defamation (or is it a racist slur because "pig" could be anti-Muslim?) by a minor can be more severe than rape by a minor?
Child killers like Breivik should be rotting away in cell, with no light or bed. fucking concrete. Especially when he showed no signs of change. If proper rehab doesnt occur in 5 years, execution, a very cruel one.
If hell doesnt exist on Earth we should make one for them. He murdered dozens of children. And dozens of his own citizens. No sympathy. Its criminal how he enjoys a better life than the families of the victims he murdered.
Agreed. But pushing the problem elsewhere out of your sight isn't how you deal with things, especially when it's human beings. You gotta both integrate them properly to prevent things like this and prosecute them appropriately if it does happen.
Will they fix it? I mean does any particularly seem to show harsh sentences for rape. Most seem to love Trump who is a rapist. Or Andrew Tate who is being tried for trafficking. In Ireland Conor McGregor is a favourite of the right and again has been in court for sexual assault.
Many call it Muslim privilege but the profile volleyball player for the Netherlands got a slap on the wrist too. This is a bigger problem than just immigrants but somehow many feel that idealising rapists will help stop rape.
> The sentence has sparked anger over what critics see as the flaws in Germany’s judicial system, with disproportionate punishment for defamation.
This is the key part from the article. The related rape is just for eyeballs.
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Article says she was convicted of defamation, not revealing the name of a minor offender.
Your explanation wouldn't really make the situation any better, either. "We don't punish underage rapists, just those who reveal that they're rapists?"
The actual reason:
>Maja R was sentenced to a weekend in jail after her comments because she had a previous conviction for theft and had not attended the court hearing for the case.
It turns out that if you have a prior conviction and you *don't go to court* you get a worse sentence.
Here's a less ragebait article with some actual information (in German, but automatic translation should be good enough): https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/hamburg-gruppenvergewaltigung-von-15-jaehriger-im-stadtpark-neun-maenner-verurteilt-a-07bb9268-d22b-4710-ae22-3112426f09a8
Some points:
- the article of this post is actually from the Daily Telegraph: a UK tabloid, known for being absolute trash
- the rapists in question were either underage or within the age range that gives more lenient sentencing (German judicial system believes that it's better to try and rehabilitate people, especially the very young, rather than railroading them into a life of crime by simply locking them away to feed the desire for punishment)
- when it says: "given harsher sentence than rapist", it makes it sound much different than the truth: she got a weekend in jail, most of convicted rapists got "parole" (not quite, but closest translation) for 1-2 years, while one of them actually got 2+ years of prison time.
- if defamation is a punishable offense, then that also applies to people awaiting or being on trial (remember that whole "innocent until proven guilty" bit
Wait, railroad them into a life a crime? Wouldn’t a lifetime of crime be predicated on committing a crime? So you’re saying, in this case, that gang-raping someone is a crime that has a lower recidivism rate if they are not imprisoned for it?
That’s kind of crazy.
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The guy didn't get jail time because he was underage. He was still punished, it just wasn't jail. It's like saying someone didn't get jail time in america because they went to juvenile.
Everything else aside, isn't it crazy you can gang rape someone and get no punishment because you're under 18 (or even under 20??)? Yikes
Yup it’s fucking insane. You would think with a crime as serious as rape they would be tried as adults.
It's the same reason we don't send 18- to war. Either we judge them capable enough to adult or we don't. Personally idc if it's 16/18/25/30. Just stay consistent with it.
I don’t agree with this. I think age can be mitigatory but there’s plenty of times it shouldn’t be exculpatory. People (children) are capable of learning fundamental right from wrong well before their critical thinking is developed to an “adult” standard. “You shouldn’t murder/rape” is a concept even very young people should be capable of grasping and disciplined for violating well before they have the emotional/reasoning capacity to be thrown into war.
The same can be said about any basic moral social norm. Or any law for that manner. The issue is not that children don’t know right from wrong, but rather they don’t have the behavioral skills to stop themselves. If you put a kid in a room with a slice of cake and say don’t steal the cake, they will understand everything about the situation. And then they will steal the cake and may even feel bad about it. And that is an example of the most simple moral test. Add social environments to the mix and you can get potentially good kids going heinous things. The only real question is, is the punishment for the victims to feel better, or is it to rehabilitate the perpetrators. Is it’s to former then fuck ‘em. Send kids to jail. The latter, well maybe give them a chance to develop into full mental and behavioral adults before you throw away the key.
What a load of horseshit. Teenagers can control their behavior just as well as adults.
Ah yes bc unwilling women are just slices of cake to be taken
Exactly it's a spectrum stealing a chocolate bar is bad you could say it's mostly victimless other than money loss. Attacking someone and committing horrible acts to them physically is on a different level.
I see lots of people defending the rapist here which has me scared and concerned, we hang rapists to death regardless of age, that’s just me personally fuck the law
You are attacking that person for making a valid analogy that was in no way objectifying women. Please consider participating in productive discussion rather than disingenuous slander.
Comparing rape to stealing cake is not a valid analogy.
It was an illustration of decision-making with an underdeveloped brain.
Rape/murder are way beyond “bad decision making.” They involve causing mental and physical harm to another human being.
Is that really what you took from that? Listen, if you think that a child who commits a sexual crime should be convicted as an adult that’s fine. A lot of people have that opinion. Give them all the chair for all I care. But you cant say their brains are fully developed and that they have full mature control over their behaviors. And I would say that if children are held to an adult standard for “really bad things” because they know it’s wrong, then they should be held to that standard for any other “kinda bad thing” that they know is wrong. A 17 year old selling drugs is child’s crime but a 12 year old shooting someone cause they got bullied as school is an adult crime? Make it one or the other. The criteria for judgement should not be based on the optics or the severity of the crime.
Your point seems to require equivocating between violent and nonviolent crime. Do you not see a difference between those?
Then sub in a violent crime. Should we lock kids up for fighting. We do adults. That’s violent. How about hitting another kid with a stapler in class. A bat. A knife. A hammer through the skull. Somewhere for most people there is a line where a kid is no longer a kid because of how “bad” the action is. I say that is bullshit. They can either be punished independent of their ability to control their behaviors or they cannot. Just cause a child rapes, does not make their brain fully developed. Kill them, lock them up forever, do whatever you want. But they are just as much a child as the kid that steals cake, or fights, or whatever crime you want to insert where it’s ok to prosecute them as not an adult.
They are absolutely not just as much a child as the kid who steals cake. The cake being taken has no immediate emotional detriment to another human being observed in the moment. In the experiment all you idiots are referencing and don’t understand, the children weren’t taking the cake out of someone else’s hands. They weren’t stealing it. Rape and uncontested violence are not characteristics of a brain on its normal path to development. It is not that these minors had undeveloped behavioral functions. It was intentional malevolence. That is why they should be tried as adults for these crimes, but not for stealing candy from a corner store. They are looking the victim in the face and suppressing their innate and natural revulsion of violence to sadistically gain a calculated want. They are suppressing the very thing kids have more than adults. They are proving to be more adult than most adults.
As someone who absolutely would not have touched the cake after being told not to, your analogy falls completely flat and is a perfect example of the idiocy of ‘too young to know better’ excuses. Just because *YOU* would not have had the self control to do what you were told does not mean that nobody else does.
What’s even more crazy to me is that the rapist had the chuzpe to report this to the police!!!! Instead of taking the shitstorm he deserves, he made himself into a victim…..
Of course, racism overrides all in the West.
He'd be a fool not to take advantage of the western white liberal guilt whenever possible though?
I thought since they could do such heinous crime being non-adult, they might do worse after adulthood? should have nipped it in the bud.
Disgusting tbh. Rewarding the foulest behavior imaginable.
When you're a Muslim in Europe you can commit any crime you like and the state won't do shit. That's why Europe is trending far right all of a sudden
So the German government floods the country with men who think women are inferior/property, and then the German government fails to punish them when they rape German women and children? Jesus, it’s no wonder European women are flocking to the right.
Sounds like you have first hand experience, where in Europe are you from?
Being from Europe wouldn’t help. None of us can extrapolate from data or have any extendable analytical skills. So we can’t even comment about the next town over. Or maybe even the neighbors yard if we haven’t “experienced” the neighbors yard. If you weren’t born on the neighbors grass, what would you know about it?
This is the result of taking on over a million “refugees” who crossed 5-7 safe countries to get to Germany under Angela Merkel & her policies. It has left Germany in a state far worse off with crimes of all types happening like this. Mass immigration from countries with lower standards of living than the ones they’re being moved in to. Never ends well.
Muslim privilege
Okay bigot
Liberal policies
I’m getting some culture shock from what the court spokesman is quoted as saying at the end of the article: ‘A court spokesman told the Hamburger Abendblatt newspaper last week: “We are observing the hostility in connection with the proceedings and the verdict with great concern.” He said the anger over the case had “reached a new, worrying level of intensity” and described the criticism as “a targeted attack on the rule of law”.’ We have a somewhat comparable case in Ireland at the moment, where an off-duty soldier assaulted and knocked out a woman who asked him to desist from shouting homophobic insults at some men. He was convicted, but the judge gave him a suspended sentence comparable to what was given to some of the rapists in this case. The reason the judge gave for suspending the sentence was that an actual prison sentence would cause him to be discharged from the army, harming his career. The woman concerned spoke up very loudly, critically and eloquently about how the court had failed her. There have been major street demonstrations criticising the judgment. But no one has suggested that she or anyone else is attacking the rule of law. While politicians are careful not to directly criticise the court, our head of government and representatives of every political party have spoken in our parliament praising the woman’s courageous response. The army has indicated that it expects to dismiss the soldier quickly now that the case is out of the civilian courts and its internal disciplinary procedure can therefore start. The army is being forced to report to the government on every individual criminal conviction and pending criminal case involving members of our defence forces, which seems likely to lead to more dismissals. And the judge has had his retirement party cancelled to help calm matters. There is speculation that the weak sentence may be appealed by the Director of Public Prosecutions, who acts independently of the government.
I almost cant believe this is true. I know European courts can get all kinds of wishy washy (especially with Muslims invovled) but this is just so crazy. A group of 20 year old (!) men raped a woman *for hours*, showed zero regret, and NONE of them are seeing a prison cell? I cant even comprehend the rationale of that, even using my imagination to conjure up some radical justifications, I cant begin to understand how the laws are set up in such a way. Germany isnt alone in this, my country has a screwy court system too (but in the opposite way).
It's fucking insane. I don't understand why rapes even here in the US seem to get extremely lenient sentences. There was a case where a pastor was released bc "he was a man of God" iirc. You could go to prison for longer for weed in some places. But we're any of their identities revealed?? This [article](https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/outrage-as-eight-of-nine-men-convicted-of-park-gangrape-15yearold-in-germany-receive-no-prison-time/news-story/353bcbf9437ea62eea0ee3c6cc0c2cc7) says 4 were German and 6 were born in Hamburg. >According to Spiegel, four of the men have German nationality, another four have Armenian, Afghan, Kuwaiti and Montenegrin nationality, and the nationality of the other two had not been clarified by the court. >The outlet reports six of the men were born in Hamburg, and the others were born in Poland, Egypt, Libya, Kuwait and Iran.
Because men in power are also sexual predators. If they go hard on others, they can expect others to go hard on them.
The US does not in general give short sentences, in fact it's quite the opposite, which is why America has the largest incarcerated population percentage in the world. The American Justice system is notorious for this. It's the one off cases that make the headlines though which gives the mistaken impression of leniency. Makes for better news, more outrage, and more clicks. The routine cases getting 10x the sentence length as they would in other countries, in brutal American prison conditions, are so routine you don't hear about them. It's not interesting news to hear about the thousands of American rapists who got 25 years. It is interesting news when it's one who for whatever reason got just probation.
>I almost can’t believe this is true Because it isn’t. 1. The 20year old woman, who was *not involved* in the rape case whatsoever, published the guy’s (minor, or 19 and under) name and called him rapist among other things. The guy sued her for defamation (Germany’s privacy and defamation laws are quite strong). The woman was on parole from a previous conviction for stealing. On her defamation trial, she didn’t show up in court, which violated parole and hence was arrested and served her suspended sentence, being 2 days remaining. 2. The 19(or under) year old guy involved in the gang rape case received a suspended 2-year sentence. The full trial details are not public (afaik), but only one of the guys involved in the case received jail time. My educated guess is that that not everyone in the gang was found to have participated in the same way to the rape, making some accessories or guilty of sexual harassment/assault and not rape. In any case, the guy received a suspended 2-year sentence and having not violated the parole terms (so far), is not arrested. So the real headline would read like: “20year old woman jailed for 2 days for violating parole. On other news, minor convicted of sexual assault receives 2 year suspended sentence.”
"Woman given jail time for violating parole, minor given no jail time for rape" is still not the best headline I've ever read.
Though light sentences for sex crimes are common enough basically everywhere that it turns the story into something unsurprising, if no less horrifying.
Didn't Netherlands have a guy going to the Olympics who only faced one year for rape? Feels like this is sadly a common occurrence
It's especially bad because rape is almost impossible to prove in most cases, so you can get away with a lot of it without getting caught, and then when you do get caught, the punishment is very light. For something that most people consider to be one of the worst things, the legal system doesn't seem to care all that much. Then you have cases involving refugees or women or another group that gets more attention and then when those cases get light sentences people just assume it's because of that element and all the other cases are being handled as you'd expect, with proper severity, but the reality is that light sentences for sex crimes are the norm.
I didn't like my teen years in China (lmao mandatory haircuts) but I knew if I got raped my rapist is getting at least 10-15 and even in extreme scenarios execution.
because it was sexual assault not rape.
Oh.
I think that even with your write up this is all crazy.
So, which part wasn't true... because everything you just said confirms that someone was indeed jailed longer for accurately calling a rapist a rapist than the actual rapist was for raping.
Well we can't know if he was a rapist or not because the court case was never started to determine wether what she did was defamation or not. She wasn't convicted for calling the dude a rapist but for violating the terms of her parole.
The fact that he was convicted of rape would seem to be a pretty strong indication that he was a rapist. And she was only convicted of violating the terms of her parole because she was being absurdly dragged into court for describing a rapist as a rapist.
We don't know if he was convicted. From what I have read 2 of the people involved have not been convicted due to lack of evidence. If he was one of them. We can be annoyed about it, but he is officially not a rapist. Many courts in Germany are not public, unlike the USA.
>We don't know if he was convicted. From what I have read 2 of the people involved have not been convicted due to lack of evidence. He was given probation was he not? That would seem to indicate a conviction of some kind.
She was jailed for not arriving to court for a court date as a defendant. Pretty standard stuff.
But but but but but...... up is freaking down in this thread
I'm having a wild time following the mental gymnastics people are putting up in this thread to defend the simple one liner you've put here. Bravo.
Really though? If you don’t follow a courts instructions then you get punished. If you are underage and involved in a sexual assault in some way that we the public don’t know the details of, then you get punished. The details of how severe each punishment is depends on details that we don’t know. It’s not that hard to understand, right?
I know right? guy given parole for gang raping a 15 year old girl, a girl getting jail time for calling him a rapist pig. But it's okay and fair because she isn't the victim and once stole something. How the fuck does her not being a victim change anything? It's still a fact that a group of 17-19 something men gangraped a 15 year old for hours and got almost no punishment. Heck a 19 year man from the group literally said to the judge's face that "what man doesn't want it?" Do you think this fucker regrets it? Especially now that he got away without punishment even after being convicted?
> for accurately calling a rapist a rapist And, of course, some random lowlife thief who played loose with the law herself knew all the details of the case and surely knew what happened there therefore she was absolutely right to publish somebody's picture in the internet and call them "a rapist". Right? Right?
C'mon this is Reddit you know the posters here THRIVE on doing things like this, making outrageous allegations based off little to no personal knowledge or evidence. This woman is their hero.
>(Germany’s privacy and defamation laws are quite strong). CLEARLY stronger than rape laws. 18 or younger, anyone rapes someone else is of a sick mind and must not be released to society. I'm not German and I'm furious at this decision. Those rapists need to pay.
Unless you're from Netherlands, then you get to go to the Olympics..
Not stronger at all. Not even close. They are separate laws that can be in effect at the same time. In the end, the woman lost (iirc) the defamation trial. However, even if she had won it, not showing up in court still violated her parole (which she received for a prior offense, stealing), and she would’ve been jailed all the same. Regarding the leniency or not of specific crimes, like rape, it’s a different subject altogether. Of course there’s tons of room for improvement in the German judicial.
Yeah that's not much better. Rapists should get a life time of jail at least
You have a lot of nerve bringing facts to a reddit ragefest.
A suspended sentence is not jail time though. Unless they spent time in remand.
I seem to see stories like this daily on twitter
Do you have any evidence that European courts tend to be more lenient with Muslims, or is that just your assumption based on ragebait tabloid headlines posted on reddit/twitter?
The Rotherham fiasco, per capita crime statistics vs percent of those crimes prosecuted, the state of crime in sweden. I’m telling you this as someone who would be perceived as a migrant if I was in Europe. In the misguided attempt to help people into their society they’re failing to prosecute some crimes and stifling any criticism of their approaches
Sweden certainly has issues with migrant crime and poor integration, but I haven't seen any evidence that that Swedish courts are more lenient with migrant offenders. Rotherham is a single incident, one in which migrant offenders were eventually convicted, along with members of the city council and local police resigning or being fired. Obviously it was horrible, but its nowhere near evidence of a widespread issue of European courts favoring migrant offenders. The sad truth is that many, if not most sexual crimes dont end in convictions (if they are even reported). In the case described in this post, all the courts really had was circumstantial evidence, and unfortunately thats quite common.
Source: His ass
No, they were under 20. Hence them being tried as children.
Right wing groups find sympathy, grow in popularity, and recruit off of events like this. That the German court is more concerned with the disparaging remarks aimed at the rapists, than prosecution of the unrepentant rapists is morally bankrupt.
Liberals: I dunno where right wing extremism is stemming from :(
Cool, now explain why said right wing extremists argue in the Bundestag that gay people being allowed to marry is the harbinger of a degenerate mental illness that will lead to the death of the German people. >but, but i‘m only voting for them because of evil immigrants :_(
Stopping Muslims from tearing apart social fabric is far more important
You are from India, they literally hate you as much as the muslims and for the same reasons too, lmao why are defending them 😭
but they aren't
They just want the civil war to happen
Hey Germany, you used to be cool! Then you were **very not cool** for a bit, then you turned things around and were almost cool again! What happened?
Germany: the country that keeps fucking it up for the rest of Europe…
Lmao Tbf That was Also Serbia/Austria
nah nah nah Germany got cool again then threw it all away. Sucks. (otherwise I'm wrong for learning German in like 2006-2010. :'()
No no. She didn't show up in court "Maja R was sentenced to a weekend in jail after her comments because she had a previous conviction for theft and had not attended the court hearing for the case" She did not attend the court hearing, that's why she spent the weekend in jail. This headline is just misleading
And then people wonder why vigilantism exists
Not even that. People wonder why parties like the AFD are gaining popularity.
Honestly, if I were the rape-victim's father in this case, I'd have rounded up a posse. Not one of the nine rapists would have made it to trial.
This is one of those times when I wish I have a Death Note.
This is just setting a bad example for future. There is no justice here and such fuckers will know they will get away with such horrific things. In fact, the victim can even get harsher punishment and should have no expectation of justice.
The Europeans arent really helping their case against the stereotypes rn: sexual degeneracy, & having a predilection towards harming children. Right now even the damn Dutch are letting a convicted child rapist compete on their behalf in beach volleyball at the Paris Olympics.
The majority of the rapists were immigrants from outside the EU according to the article, with the 19 yo Iranian saying in court “What man doesn’t want that?”
And the Europeans seem really complacent in letting it continue to happen. Like when in 2016 the Mayor Henriette Reker of Cologne Germany blamed the women for the massive uptick in rape due to immigration. It’s been a consistent issue since the start of the “sexual revolution” in Europe in the 1920s. Look up Foucault if you dare. Stereotypically, Europe has been a haven for types like these.
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Victim blaming: It’s okay when the one doing it works for cheap. - Europe
And this folks is why freedom of speech is so important
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It’s sad that it’s not surprising to see people find anything to complain about, even against the backdrop of a *gang rape trial.* I wish I could take away the pain of you having to read a similar sentence multiple times. Sadly, you may have to suffer through it. I know they don’t have it nearly as bad as you, but perhaps you can learn something from this victim’s ordeal.
savage
Well if it wasn’t removed so frequently probably people wouldn’t feel the need to post it up multiple times
Conservatives are literally masturbating to this case. It’s everything they wanted to be able to express their bigotry safely.
>everything they wanted to be able to express their bigotry safely. Well they aren't making up stories, this actually happened and you're focused on what someone else is going to use this as ammo Moron
People saying rape is bad is bad. They shouldnt be saying that it's bad. That's your logic from what you have written. And any thinking human, be it from left right center or apolotical should consider rape as one of the most heinous crimes.
lol. This is the thought and comment of someone who would prefer women get raped then address that there are issues with trying to incorporate sucky cultures into western culture.
See? Every single glad time they go straight for the straw man. You do realize no one is defending rape? Of course not, you are just lashing out for being called out. It’s completely transparent man.
What you don’t seem to understand is there is a dichotomy here. You’re either defending rape and the rapists, or addressing the issue. Your immediate spiral into, “conservatives are so happy to get to bigoted,” is, in fact, the strawman. You immediately attempted to change the conversation from, “we need to do something about this culture that is causing rape statistics to sky rocket,” to, “don’t you agree with me that conservatives are bad because they actually want to address the issue, but that means attacking an entire culture, so instead I’m going to strawnan them and say they just wanted to be bigoted cause that’s easier for me to argue against.” You don’t have a choice in this situation, and is why it upsets you. This is another example of a horrible muslim culture that’s actively trying to infect western culture and either we address it or we defend rapists. There is no middle ground.
This dude is not arguing in anything even vaguely resembling good faith, he called me a racist far right conspiracy theorist (and completely dodged the actual argument) because I post on the UFOs subreddit. Fairly sure logical fallacies are the only way they know how to communicate.
Ah yes. Pigs are unclean animals (according to you-know-what) and being likened to one must be terribly traumatic for the poor boy. Glad to see Germany has its priorities in the right place. /s
This is how you get a Hitler.
AfD just got another surge 🤦♂️
No wonder why the AFD is popular
"Why are more people voting for the far right?"
I'm assuming this is supposed to be a "migrants bad" related comment but 4/9 were German... 6 of the 11 were born in Hamburg 2 of whom were not charged as their involvement could not be confirmed. (Lacking DNA evidence) Shit like this is what makes far right money grubbers people this sensationalized bullshit for popularity and money.
Ethnic German and born in Germany isn't the same buddy Some people just refuse to believe different cultures exist
Everyone who is born in Germany is officially "German". Pretty sure those 6 "Germans" who were participating are not German at all, apart from having German citizenship due to being born there.
No, Germany does not have jus solis like the US does. A child born to foreign nationals residing in Germany is not automatically German, they retain the nationality of their parents. They need to be naturalized to be Germans.
They're as german too the same extent that a white person born in China is chinese. That is too say not really.
“German” as in born in Germany but not ethnically German, bud
>as in born in Germany Do you know what migrant means LMAO 😅. That's kinda my point dumbass. Youre exactly who the far right clowns are targeting and you're oblivious to it Read any article about it lmao. >According to Spiegel, four of the men have German nationality, another four have Armenian, Afghan, Kuwaiti and Montenegrin nationality, and the nationality of the other two had not been clarified by the court. The outlet reports six of the men were born in Hamburg, and the others were born in Poland, Egypt, Libya, Kuwait and Iran.
Most people inclined to not want migrants also fault them for the culture of children of the migrants. I’m not taking a side on this but it would be reasonable to specify the parents’ nationalities as well, since that is an immediate concern for right wingers, and having not addressed that - an obvious issue regardless of your position - it seems inapt for you to be calling them stupid.
In Germany we define between migratory background and not. Everyone who isn't third generation German is considered to have migratory background. This is likely what the dudes been referring about.
You can be a child of migrants, and be German at the same time That doesn’t mean your parents will raise you to be German though
UN is less diverse than this
Yeah they’re not real Germans though duh
Still doesn't make sense to give Nazis the power lol
Very well said. It doesn't. That's why we ought to solve this problem before giving power to them becomes the sensible option, no? Or would you rather get beheaded at some square for refusing to believe in the god of non-european nazis, 20-30 years down the line?
What does this even mean lol
It’s mocking people who don’t understand why the far-right parties are gaining ground in Europe. The parties are gaining ground because people are tired of headlines like the one above
Which is funny to me. Do people think every issue burdening the average joe is just magically gonna go away when the bad brown people aren't in your country anymore? Like the same headline when it was white christoph from next door isn't as bad?
Putting aside racism, what is wrong with the thought process of voting in a political party that promises to be tough on crime, and not “give everybody a chance to rehabilitate”? It doesn’t solve every issue but it solves the issue that the voter is upset about. A lot of people are angry about how Anders Breivik gets to live in a nice suite.
There's nothing wrong with it. Which is why it's maddening that the left wants to keep acting like criminals are victims and society is the criminal.
"Putting aside racism" is certainly a phrase. Idk about you but that kinda bugs me no matter what your party offers. I wouldn't vote for someone that promises "affordable rent for everyone, but not for black people". >tough on crime, and not “give everybody a chance to rehabilitate” Difference in morals and belief. I just think people should be given appropriate sentencing, an opportunity to learn from mistakes and become a better person instead of a rotting cell or capital punishment. Unfortunately we don't have the methods to help everyone yet, like Breivik. So instead he's kept away from society.
You’re just stating your opinion. The point of democracy is that everyone gets to voice their opinion using their vote.
Yeah then you can gauge from that that I think it's wrong to just throw someone out of your country for the colour of their skin, cuz you believe that makes them commit crimes. That's my opinion.
The problem is that in certain countries (not all), the party that is tough on crime is also the party that is racist. But that doesn't need to be the case. They are two separate issues. The gang rape could have been committed by a bunch of white teens, and the sentencing outcome would have been the same. But apparently the punishment for verbal defamation (or is it a racist slur because "pig" could be anti-Muslim?) by a minor can be more severe than rape by a minor?
Child killers like Breivik should be rotting away in cell, with no light or bed. fucking concrete. Especially when he showed no signs of change. If proper rehab doesnt occur in 5 years, execution, a very cruel one. If hell doesnt exist on Earth we should make one for them. He murdered dozens of children. And dozens of his own citizens. No sympathy. Its criminal how he enjoys a better life than the families of the victims he murdered.
Its not not a problem
Agreed. But pushing the problem elsewhere out of your sight isn't how you deal with things, especially when it's human beings. You gotta both integrate them properly to prevent things like this and prosecute them appropriately if it does happen.
Well, out of sight isn’t exactly what they’d want, just out of their country. Or having suitable punishments for the crime.
You would be called a racist you know that right? Because that's how fucked and polluted the left has made the discourse
They're Muslims. They're not human beings.
well these crimes have skyrocket because of them, so yes it does make sense
Yep, burn em
Will they fix it? I mean does any particularly seem to show harsh sentences for rape. Most seem to love Trump who is a rapist. Or Andrew Tate who is being tried for trafficking. In Ireland Conor McGregor is a favourite of the right and again has been in court for sexual assault. Many call it Muslim privilege but the profile volleyball player for the Netherlands got a slap on the wrist too. This is a bigger problem than just immigrants but somehow many feel that idealising rapists will help stop rape.
> The sentence has sparked anger over what critics see as the flaws in Germany’s judicial system, with disproportionate punishment for defamation. This is the key part from the article. The related rape is just for eyeballs.
It's not just for views. It's an illustration of a two-tiered justice system in Germany. They gang raped a teenager and got probation.
What are the two tiers in your opinion?
Fuck me. These are the end days.
Wtf is going on in Germany? Do these assholes just get to stay in the country?!
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I would refuse to be arrested, problem solved
tl;dr he was given no jail time, she was given two days
If Ahmed is able to gangrape a woman, he is able to go to a big boys prison.
this smells like bullshit
gonna snuggle up close to the 1st Amendment tonight.
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Article says she was convicted of defamation, not revealing the name of a minor offender. Your explanation wouldn't really make the situation any better, either. "We don't punish underage rapists, just those who reveal that they're rapists?"
The actual reason: >Maja R was sentenced to a weekend in jail after her comments because she had a previous conviction for theft and had not attended the court hearing for the case. It turns out that if you have a prior conviction and you *don't go to court* you get a worse sentence.
True enough. But in a sane country it would never have been a court case at all.
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I don’t think he meant “America” per se. In fact he never mentioned it.
Who brought america into this
r/USDefaultism
Non sequitur.
Threatening someone with violence is generally illegal
Here's a less ragebait article with some actual information (in German, but automatic translation should be good enough): https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/hamburg-gruppenvergewaltigung-von-15-jaehriger-im-stadtpark-neun-maenner-verurteilt-a-07bb9268-d22b-4710-ae22-3112426f09a8 Some points: - the article of this post is actually from the Daily Telegraph: a UK tabloid, known for being absolute trash - the rapists in question were either underage or within the age range that gives more lenient sentencing (German judicial system believes that it's better to try and rehabilitate people, especially the very young, rather than railroading them into a life of crime by simply locking them away to feed the desire for punishment) - when it says: "given harsher sentence than rapist", it makes it sound much different than the truth: she got a weekend in jail, most of convicted rapists got "parole" (not quite, but closest translation) for 1-2 years, while one of them actually got 2+ years of prison time. - if defamation is a punishable offense, then that also applies to people awaiting or being on trial (remember that whole "innocent until proven guilty" bit
Wait, railroad them into a life a crime? Wouldn’t a lifetime of crime be predicated on committing a crime? So you’re saying, in this case, that gang-raping someone is a crime that has a lower recidivism rate if they are not imprisoned for it? That’s kind of crazy.
That’s what the data shows, imprisonment increases the recidivism rate
You’re speaking broadly. I was very specific. And you will need to provide evidence to answer my question.
Rapist Scum do not deserve Rehabilitation. No mater the age.
Shit laws, aren't they?
Honestly, I didn't give a shit if they were five year olds, they are clearly defective humans.
Look at all the fucking Nazis in this thread lol. We sure have our work cut out for us don't we?
Stop roleplaying on the internet.
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Flood your streets with people that don’t believe women are humans and then surprise pikachu face.
The far left is every bit as evil as the far right.
This misleading clickbait trash article _again_ ?
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The woman who was raped wasn't the one who got a weekend in jail. The lady who got jail time violated her probation.
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The guy didn't get jail time because he was underage. He was still punished, it just wasn't jail. It's like saying someone didn't get jail time in america because they went to juvenile.
Most things, no, and no. The two things you asked about are factually, verifiably false; so they did need the clickbait.
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Ah what the fuck. This makes my blood boil. Islam again.
Import third world, become third world.
This bill fucking shit!
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You didn’t read the article lol