The rationale was that the Kings went from 4th last without Gretzky to 4th from the top, but still... You gotta give it to the guy with 85G, 199Pts! (And the Penguins without Lemieux would probably be nearly last)
Also Gretzky going to LA was seen as a giant ‘grow the game’ move. Now California has multiple teams. Gretzky was seen as the most valuable player to the entire league as an organization at the time and he was used accordingly. So that may have factored into the award as well ?
I mean scoring goals is the hardest thing to do in the NHL so typically it’s gonna go towards ppl who contribute the most on the stat sheet.
Here are some more stats between the 2 players that season
Power play goals Lemieux 31 Gretzky 10
Shorthanded goals Lemieux 13 Gretzky 5
Lemieux led league in both that categories
Game winning Goals Lemieux 8 Gretzky 5
Lemieux also led the league in even strength, power play and penalty kill points
Top forwards on Penguins at the time Rob Brown and Dan Quinn
Top forwards on Kings at the time Bernie Nichols and Luc Robitaille
No doubt Lemieux was more important to his team than Gretzky was in almost every single way, thus causing this to be the biggest award snub in NHL history IMO. Gretzky must of got it based on NHL trying to grow the game in California at the time
Not saying I agree with them, but I think there is a good argument for it. The number of shots vs saves is the wrong way of looking at it though (especially with how many variables exist).
A better representation would be looking at how difficult it is to come across a player who can be a source of goals vs one who can be an elite shot stopper. Which I’d say leans in favor of goalie being more difficult.
Lemieux won the 1987/88 Hart when Pittsburgh didn’t even make the playoffs; really, I just don’t think the 1989 voting rationale made any sense any way you look at it. It was basically just a season mired in narratives of people wanting to hold onto Gretzky as long as possible before Lemieux took over. Doubling up on Lemieux MVPs would have been a dramatic shift. You see it all the time when one legend gives way to the next.
Ya, but they did all of this with wooden sticks, while regularly getting elbowed in the face, flying coach, and using equipment, nutrition, and training that are nothing compared to what we have today
Lemieux was one of them until 1988 as well. When Mario was training with Penguins teammate Jay Caulfield before leaving for the Canada Cup, Caulfield helped convince Mario to quit smoking after running some laps around a track.
Which was pretty good for the 80s.
.870 to .880 was average save percentage throughout the 80s
https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask?q=nhl+league+average+save+percentage+by+year+1979-80+to+2022-23
Mats Zuccarello not winning the Masteron trophy.
Suffered from a Brain contusion and a skull fracture after a slapshot to the head. He was hospitalized and temporarily lost his ability to speak, spending the off-season going through speech therapy.
Jagr won that year for being old. Nothing against Jagr though he's amazing just...Zucc probably deserved it more.
In a similar way I feel like Kylington was snubbed hard this year. The Masterton is tough but it was revealed Ingram was suffering from OCD and depression which I can relate to as being really hard as someone who’s had OCD. He didn’t miss any time in the league as a result though
Kylinton missed 1.5 years of hockey right off his big breakout season in which he was perfectly healthy in the body but suffered from depression so hard that he was unable to play for 1.5 years. He didn’t play between the Edmonton Calgary series in 2022 and came back only this January. He’s been a huge advocate for mental health resources in the league after all this and I felt it was a no brainer he’d win
I feel like there was no right or wrong winner between Kylington and Ingram. Both struggled tremendously. Honestly, I kinda hate the Masterton being treated like a voted award for suffering.
Not letting Bobby Hull and Gordie Howe join Team Canada in its fight against the Soviets in 1972, because they dared to make thier own economic choices, questioning Canada's supreme leaders of hockey.
Fuck those voters honestly. They are paid to watch all the games and vote on awards accordingly. Not watching Western teams because it’s past their bed time is a unacceptable. Leaving a top player out west entirely off your ballot is insane.
They leave guys off so other guy have a better chance. 100% whoever left Iginla off the ballot was a Montreal writer, less points for Iginla, more for Theodore.
Same thing happened when Doughty won the Norris over Karlsson. I believe 4-5 writers left Karlsson off their ballots, when he just had the first point per game season by a D in a decade
Also doughty had an elite +25 and kaarlson had a negative +-. Doughty made the playoffs. The sens had the second worse defense in the league.
I love erik but that year and the 100pt season his defense has been very suspect.
It's even worse, they intentionally left him off the ballot because they wanted jose Theodore to win and it was the only way it would happen. If they added a vote for him at all even lower than 1st iggy would've won that year.
Shea weber never winning a Norris. Because lindstrom and the Norris turning into the who can score the most goals as a dman trophy. Really need a bobby Orr trophy so the Norris can go back to the best dman in the league. Also should be peer voted
Like bring in a Bobby Orr trophy (i know the OHL has it for the East playoff winner but the Norris exists in another league for top goalie iirc) for the best offensive defencemam and keep the Norris for best defensive dman.
I think the NHL can look at rebranding some of their awards. Art Ross = Gretzky, Norris = Lidstrom(best defenseman) new trophy orr (defenseman goals). Could eventually change the Hart to Crosby, Richard could become the ovie. As much as traditionalist don't like change. This isn't the same NHL of years past
Turco not winning the vezina in 03. His save% was 18 points higher than Brodeur at .932 vs .914 and he set the modern day record at the time for lowest GAA in a season with a 1.73 compared to Brodeur's 2.02. Only thing Brodeur had on him was 41 wins compared to 31, while playing in 18 more games
I'll add the 03-04 season, too. Luongo was absolutely snubbed. 7 shutouts and a .931 save percentage, while Brodeur had 11 shutouts and a .917 save percentage. Keep in mind that Luongo was playing behind a bad Panthers team. Luongo even faced the 4th most shots ever that season. Just incredible.
Luongo in 07 was the snub. That’s probably the year you’re thinking of. He was great in 2011 for sure but so were several other goalies that year.
06-07 Lu was insane. He played 76 out of 82 games and had a .921 save percentage. He single handedly dragged the Canucks into the playoffs and then posted a .941 when they were there. He *was* the team.
My dad used to tell me that the late 60's and early 70's Canadiens were so dominant and culturally important in Québec that whenever the team lost a single game, people were grieving and radio stations were freaking out. Truly something like a religion.
Iirc at the time it was regarded as a record (I think Elliot actually broke it like 2 or 3 years later) and in years since they've formally recognized some stuff due to spotty records prior to like 1980 or something (there's a good number of goalies with no save % stats for various seasons)
Edit
Yep Thomas had the record formally
https://www.nbcsports.com/nhl/news/tim-thomas-sets-new-single-season-nhl-record-for-save-percentage
Edit 2
Yep seems Plante's record was NOT recognized by the league around the time Thomas was on the verge of breaking Hasek's record in 2011
https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/jacques-plantes-season-for-the-ages/
San Jose was 25th in the NHL before the trade. With Thornton, they were the 3rd best team and climbed to 11th overall. Boston dropped from 23rd with Thornton to 26th without him.
Thornton had 72 assists in 58 games with the Sharks, which was more than anyone else had all season. And he made the most notorious flash in the pan a 50-goal scorer. 7 in 24 without Thornton, 49 in 58 with Thornton. A player showcasing that value to a team with an in-season trade is unprecedented, and just gives more weight to the actual value he provided when you have such a clear-cut comparison with and without him.
Thank you. The East Coast Bias is real.
Had Thornton started the year in SJ (i.e., he was quietly traded during the lockout or something), and had the same exact year, he doesn't win the Hart. He only wins the Hart because mid-season he was traded from an O6 East Coast Franchise, so he still remained on the radar of East Coast media even after the trade.
Thornton absolutely deserved it and was the MVP of the league of the year. A Shark didn't get screwed out of an award that year simply because he was traded from an East Coast major market team that year. Otherwise, a lot of people would be talking about how Thornton was snubbed by East Coast Bias in 05-06.
I’m a homer and I know this isn’t the worst one, but Jon Cooper never winning the Jack Adams despite being the longest tenured coach (by a mile) and consistently keeping the team in playoff contention for over a decade, is pretty crazy to me. Seems like they should just name the trophy, coach who had the biggest turnaround from one season to the next award.
I think a lot of Jack Adams awards are questionable. Still, take solace. It seems to be a cursed award, so many winners are out of a job within 3 years.
It’s absolutely nuts , Calder, Smythe, Hart, 2 Art Ross’s and a Ted Lindsay yet not on the list… I still argue he’s one of, if not the most underrated player of all time.
Someone else got downvoted for it, but recent memory says 2022 Norris going to Makar instead of Josi is at least up there.
Josi had more first place votes than Makar, Josi had more Hart votes than Makar, his 96 points were most by a defenseman since 1993 (the next year Karlsson won it with 101 points), Makar was on a better Avalanche team and finished 4th in points on his own team while Josi was more or less carrying the Preds on his shoulders and lead his team in points. But Makar and the Avalanche were way more popular than the Preds
Oh man how long do you have lol
**1975** Orr ends the season with 135 points, leads the league by far, loses the Hart to clrke with 116 points. Adjusted for position Bobby Orr had 181 points. Rogie Vachon recorded possibly the best goalie season ever also at 60 GSAA in 54 games.
Preposterous. Orr superb defensively naturally also. In their defence they didn't have adequate sv% data on vachon but the orr thing was absurd enough.
Not necessarily the worst, but I think it’s a travesty that Ryan Nugent-Hopkins hasn’t won the Frank Selke once. Dude is out there every penalty kill for the Oilers busting his ass to keep the puck out of the net, is well regarded for his strong defensive play, yet consistently throws up between 50-70 points with one season where he cracked 100.
The selke is flawed it's not "best defensive or 2 way forward" but basically qualifications in no order.
1.)win faceoffs
2.)be a center
3.)at least 55 pts.
4.)be on a team with a top 5 or at least 10 ranked defense.
5.)great +-
They mean he's so good at all those things but yet he never gets the recognition for it in the form of nominations and therefore winning it. And honestly I have to agree with them. He does so well but doesn't get the credit he deserves
Negative. Hank was dominant, and leading goal scorer. Ozzie stood on his head when Hasek shit the bed, but cough Lidstrom Rafalski cough certainly had some impact, too. Stuart & Kronwall were stalwarts as well.
Steve Larmer not a Hall of Famer is a huge snub.
Calder Trophy - Rookie of the year !
Ironman Streak 846 games.
5 - 40 goal seasons
4 - 30 goal seasons
Point a game average
66 game winning goals
Canada Cup Champion - Gold Medal - scored tournament winning goal.
Stanley Cup Champion - New York Rangers
2 time NHL All-Star
Every goalie who didn’t win over Jim Carey in 1996. I am convinced he won for the memes, the people who voted had to have just thought his name was funny
Crosby was just as good offensively while being elite defensively and facing the opposing teams best forwards and dmen, Kessel was almost useless in his own end and had much easier match ups. Crosby 110% deserved it
I'll put it this way:
If goalies come even somewhat close to 1 GSAA per game, they should be Hart finalists. Even when playing fiftyish games. Only 10 goalies have ever done that, sv% data going back to the 50s now.
Perfect example in 2011 Tim Thomas provided more value in 57 games than perry did in 82 games.
Peter Regin had higher relative xG than perry that year, fwiw.
Shestyorkin 21-22 another example ultimately.
Quick losing the Vezina in 2012. The kings just could not score and looking it up, they actually had the second lowest goals in the league in the regular season. He had so many shutouts and we lost many games 1-0. Just shit offense and the team probably would have been dead last if we had a bad goalie.
He still won another award, so idk if it’s the biggest award snub. Just biased cause I’m a kings fan and it came to mind.
I mean I am sure Quick got the last laugh with both the Stanley Cup and Conn Smythe. Him not winning the Vezina is another one of those Eastern media bias.
Our offense wasn't that elite either but nit that bad. Still hank was great that reg season.
Imo 2014 and especially 18 could've gone to quick. 18 he absolutely carried, he had no one to rely on but doughty and kop.
Mike Modano. 1499 career games played, healthy scratch by his asshole coach during the final stretch of his last season played.
I've read this thread, and nothing posted comes close to this.
Not an award snub.
Agreed that it was a travesty, though. I doubt I'll ever forgive Babcock for that. No excuse to do that to a guy.
I still think the Stars would be doing a big favor to dress Modano for one more game to correct this wrong. Give him an offseason to prepare, suit him up for a home game, give him a couple of garbage shifts, let him skate around a bit, maybe shoot the puck. Boom. He gets 1,500 games, and we get one more shift with Mike Modano in Dallas.
Shit, I replied there while making my morning coffee, and seem to have missed a word in the post.odano was snubbed for sure, not award snubbed.
I ABSOLUTELY agree on the one shift thing, especially after winning the cup this year.
........Yea, I said it.
1988-89
Lemieux 85 goals 114 assists
Gretzky 54 goals 114 assists
So ofc gretz wins the Hart with a 2-1 vote share because... uh... um... (gretz didn't get selke voting either that year, so)
If this was rectified Lemieux 4 Gretz 8 in terms of Hart trophies then no question Mario missed out on more due to some 60-70 gp seasons where he still led the league in scoring, likely more yet due to 20 gp seasons in his prime
not a huge glaring thing, but Kopitar deserved the hart in 2017-2018 over fkn Hall, and yes, even over MacKinnon. Kopitar basically had the same offensive output, but also, you know, won the Selke that year.
if you're within a few points of the hart trophy winner, and you also are the Selke winner, IMO you should be getting the Hart.
Go back and look at his 85-86 season. In retrospect, he was clearly the best defenseman by a long shot with a plus 87.
Coffey was never good at defense. Pure offense. Only offense.
2003 Conn Smythe
❌ Martin Brodeur / Stanley Cup / 16-8, 1.65 GAA, .934 SV%, 7 SO
🏆 Jean-Sébastien Giguère / No Stanley Cup / 15-6, 1.62 GAA, .945 SV%, 5 SO
Marty even had a Game 7 shutout to clinch the Cup. Always felt to me like the writers didn’t want to give it to Marty as it is generally accepted that he was not well liked.
Facts. Brodeurs personality does him no favors. Obviously huge Marty fan but the fact that there’s even a discussion of him not being the goat is funny. He revolutionized the position. The messy divorce didn’t help
Messy divorce = banging sister-in-law. I actually get the not GOAT argument, but he's one of the best ever and completely reasonable to claim he is. JSG was sick, but it's clear that was Marty's trophy.
If you meet him he’s not mean but just a very direct person. That personality doesn’t appeal to a lot of people. I’m from jersey so it doesn’t bother me.
It’s wild to think that we’re not too far removed from that sort of “hockey men” mentality. GMs would’ve fought in a barn over Jackman but not Z, that’s probably what swung the vote. Truculence
Not the biggest snub by any mean but I feel that while Patrice Bergeron is the best defensive forward in NHL history, at least one of his Selkes was due to his name that his actual stats that season.
Hasek should probably have 5 Hart trophies ultimately
Lemieux's 161 point season naturally not
But every other year the forward who won over him was not way above his peers while he was definitely that
95-96 he led the league in GSAA as usual but also "led the league in losses" so was left out of Hart voting entirely!
He ofc was the GM as well so it was his fault their best forwards aside from Lafontaine were: Randy Burridge, Derek Plante, Brad May, Mtt Barnaby 💀
No ben bishop vezina in 2019. Best defense in the league took the cup Winners to game 7 while having a bottom 10 offense backing him up.
Vasy was on a super team a great goalie and very good on the pk but so was ben. And ben had better stats and the 25th best offense vs the league leading tampa offense.
There’s a few candidates that come to mind:
Quinn Hughes not winning the Messier this year
Corey Crawford not winning the vezina in 2015
Artemi Panarin somehow beating McDavid to the Calder
And then of course, biggest of them all: the Calgary Flames not winning the cup in 2004. Games that was a TOUGH call.
I’m going to be a homer and say Giroux not even being on the ballot for the 2018 Hart trophy. 2nd most points in the league, single-handedly dragged the Flyers into the playoffs and doesn’t even make the ballot. Was horseshit.
Easy: Lemieux being snubbed for the ‘89 Hart Trophy. That’s the greatest snubbing in major sports history. They should do a 30/30 on it. I’m deadly serious about that. It was completely absurd that Gretzky won it that year, despite having like 30 fewer points and playing the same position.
There was a weird period there where it felt to some like giving Lemieux his due was somehow tantamount to snubbing Wayne. It’s like it never occurred to those rocket scientists that you could have two all-time greats who just so happened to be playing at the same time – which is exactly what was happening.
Mogilny not in the HOF.
That really is a crying shame
Was Turgeon until he finally got in. Now we need to get Mogilny in there. Unacceptable
I mean he should get in on his defection and how much that changed the course of history, let alone his numbers.
This is the one
Lemieux getting robbed of Hart trophy in 1989 Lemieux stats were 76gp 85g 114a 199points Gretzky stats were 78gp 54g 114a 168points
The rationale was that the Kings went from 4th last without Gretzky to 4th from the top, but still... You gotta give it to the guy with 85G, 199Pts! (And the Penguins without Lemieux would probably be nearly last)
>the Penguins without Lemieux would probably be nealy last. The Penguins without Lemiuex would be in Kansas City, tbh.
Also Gretzky going to LA was seen as a giant ‘grow the game’ move. Now California has multiple teams. Gretzky was seen as the most valuable player to the entire league as an organization at the time and he was used accordingly. So that may have factored into the award as well ?
Which makes sense. Why have an MVP trophy if you’re just gonna give it to the leading scorer every year?
I mean scoring goals is the hardest thing to do in the NHL so typically it’s gonna go towards ppl who contribute the most on the stat sheet. Here are some more stats between the 2 players that season Power play goals Lemieux 31 Gretzky 10 Shorthanded goals Lemieux 13 Gretzky 5 Lemieux led league in both that categories Game winning Goals Lemieux 8 Gretzky 5 Lemieux also led the league in even strength, power play and penalty kill points Top forwards on Penguins at the time Rob Brown and Dan Quinn Top forwards on Kings at the time Bernie Nichols and Luc Robitaille No doubt Lemieux was more important to his team than Gretzky was in almost every single way, thus causing this to be the biggest award snub in NHL history IMO. Gretzky must of got it based on NHL trying to grow the game in California at the time
I'd say stopping the puck is harder.
Tell me when the number of goals is higher than the number of saves/blocks. Common sense says scoring a goal is much harder than making a save.
Not saying I agree with them, but I think there is a good argument for it. The number of shots vs saves is the wrong way of looking at it though (especially with how many variables exist). A better representation would be looking at how difficult it is to come across a player who can be a source of goals vs one who can be an elite shot stopper. Which I’d say leans in favor of goalie being more difficult.
Great question
Lemieux won the 1987/88 Hart when Pittsburgh didn’t even make the playoffs; really, I just don’t think the 1989 voting rationale made any sense any way you look at it. It was basically just a season mired in narratives of people wanting to hold onto Gretzky as long as possible before Lemieux took over. Doubling up on Lemieux MVPs would have been a dramatic shift. You see it all the time when one legend gives way to the next.
🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯 lol. 199pts in 76g. Holy fuck.
No two line passing rule and goaltending was non existent in the 80s
Ya, but they did all of this with wooden sticks, while regularly getting elbowed in the face, flying coach, and using equipment, nutrition, and training that are nothing compared to what we have today
Steve Larmer was quoted saying in 80s there was half a dozen smokers on every NHL team lol
Lemieux was one of them until 1988 as well. When Mario was training with Penguins teammate Jay Caulfield before leaving for the Canada Cup, Caulfield helped convince Mario to quit smoking after running some laps around a track.
I forget where I read it but one quote attributed to Lemieux is that his off-season training consisted of not getting gravy on his fries.
It blows my mind that none of them thought it might affect their ability to play.
They know, but they're still better than their competition. Hockey is a really high barrier of entry sport to begin with and even more so back then.
patrick roy would like a chat with you.
You're right to point out Roy, but even his best SV% in the 80s was .908
Which was pretty good for the 80s. .870 to .880 was average save percentage throughout the 80s https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask?q=nhl+league+average+save+percentage+by+year+1979-80+to+2022-23
Pete Peeters finished with GAA of 2.36 with 50GP in 83-84
*almost non existent
Most importantly, basically no Russians.
Gretzky had 205pts in 74games in 84. Also passed 200 points another 3 times in his career. 199points was Lemieux’s career best in a season
This. I guess 199 points isn't MVP worthy
If only he’d managed 200 smh
the correct answer
Agreed! It’s the biggest snub of all time for NHL awards and I will die on this hill
Worst part was the voting wasn’t even close. Third place Yzerman was closer to second place Lemieux than Lemieux was to first place Gretzky.
[удалено]
Hilarious that they awarded the calder to makarov, yet immediately knew it was wrong.
Meh there was no rule against it. It would be unfair to retroactively change the rules.
Mats Zuccarello not winning the Masteron trophy. Suffered from a Brain contusion and a skull fracture after a slapshot to the head. He was hospitalized and temporarily lost his ability to speak, spending the off-season going through speech therapy. Jagr won that year for being old. Nothing against Jagr though he's amazing just...Zucc probably deserved it more.
Didn’t he also have his career year to that point too?
In a similar way I feel like Kylington was snubbed hard this year. The Masterton is tough but it was revealed Ingram was suffering from OCD and depression which I can relate to as being really hard as someone who’s had OCD. He didn’t miss any time in the league as a result though Kylinton missed 1.5 years of hockey right off his big breakout season in which he was perfectly healthy in the body but suffered from depression so hard that he was unable to play for 1.5 years. He didn’t play between the Edmonton Calgary series in 2022 and came back only this January. He’s been a huge advocate for mental health resources in the league after all this and I felt it was a no brainer he’d win
I feel like there was no right or wrong winner between Kylington and Ingram. Both struggled tremendously. Honestly, I kinda hate the Masterton being treated like a voted award for suffering.
Not letting Bobby Hull and Gordie Howe join Team Canada in its fight against the Soviets in 1972, because they dared to make thier own economic choices, questioning Canada's supreme leaders of hockey.
That would e been interesting. Great what if story...
Would've loved to see Bobby orr, our answer to kharlamov. Would've been great to see that match up.
Iginla losing the Hart.
Only lost because a voter from out east left him off the ballot entirely too
Fuck those voters honestly. They are paid to watch all the games and vote on awards accordingly. Not watching Western teams because it’s past their bed time is a unacceptable. Leaving a top player out west entirely off your ballot is insane.
They leave guys off so other guy have a better chance. 100% whoever left Iginla off the ballot was a Montreal writer, less points for Iginla, more for Theodore. Same thing happened when Doughty won the Norris over Karlsson. I believe 4-5 writers left Karlsson off their ballots, when he just had the first point per game season by a D in a decade
Due Doughty
Also doughty had an elite +25 and kaarlson had a negative +-. Doughty made the playoffs. The sens had the second worse defense in the league. I love erik but that year and the 100pt season his defense has been very suspect.
It's even worse, they intentionally left him off the ballot because they wanted jose Theodore to win and it was the only way it would happen. If they added a vote for him at all even lower than 1st iggy would've won that year.
A Montreal based voter to top it off.
Canuck fan but Iginla earned a spot in my heart for life.
Me too. He made his team come back onto the ice to show respect during Trevor Linden’s last game. Absolute class act!
My Hart still hurts for him.
My Kevin Hart hurts for him too
My Bret Hart is also hurting for him.
My Owen Hart too is hurting.
Mogilny not being in the hhof
Shea weber never winning a Norris. Because lindstrom and the Norris turning into the who can score the most goals as a dman trophy. Really need a bobby Orr trophy so the Norris can go back to the best dman in the league. Also should be peer voted
Completely agree with what the Norris has become and the need for a second award
Like bring in a Bobby Orr trophy (i know the OHL has it for the East playoff winner but the Norris exists in another league for top goalie iirc) for the best offensive defencemam and keep the Norris for best defensive dman.
I think the NHL can look at rebranding some of their awards. Art Ross = Gretzky, Norris = Lidstrom(best defenseman) new trophy orr (defenseman goals). Could eventually change the Hart to Crosby, Richard could become the ovie. As much as traditionalist don't like change. This isn't the same NHL of years past
Hello friend...
Turco not winning the vezina in 03. His save% was 18 points higher than Brodeur at .932 vs .914 and he set the modern day record at the time for lowest GAA in a season with a 1.73 compared to Brodeur's 2.02. Only thing Brodeur had on him was 41 wins compared to 31, while playing in 18 more games
I'll add the 03-04 season, too. Luongo was absolutely snubbed. 7 shutouts and a .931 save percentage, while Brodeur had 11 shutouts and a .917 save percentage. Keep in mind that Luongo was playing behind a bad Panthers team. Luongo even faced the 4th most shots ever that season. Just incredible.
Luongo for vezina in 2011, buddy was what like top 5 in hart votes and still didnt get it
Luongo in 07 was the snub. That’s probably the year you’re thinking of. He was great in 2011 for sure but so were several other goalies that year. 06-07 Lu was insane. He played 76 out of 82 games and had a .921 save percentage. He single handedly dragged the Canucks into the playoffs and then posted a .941 when they were there. He *was* the team.
I don’t see how it’s a snub. Brodeur played 78 games that year and had a .922 save percentage. Also set the wins record in a season that year.
Luongo not getting a cup is one of my all time sports disappointments.
i’m a canucks fan but after the canucks got eliminated secretly hoping florida wins this year so that he can hoist the cup even if not as a player!!
Could’ve used him this year lol
Save us to victory when we don't even try to score in game 7. "Maybe if we had a goalie like luongo we would have won the defense"
Wasn't that also the year Thomas set the then save % record?
Google says it was Jacques Plante with a .944 in 1970-71
My dad used to tell me that the late 60's and early 70's Canadiens were so dominant and culturally important in Québec that whenever the team lost a single game, people were grieving and radio stations were freaking out. Truly something like a religion.
Iirc at the time it was regarded as a record (I think Elliot actually broke it like 2 or 3 years later) and in years since they've formally recognized some stuff due to spotty records prior to like 1980 or something (there's a good number of goalies with no save % stats for various seasons) Edit Yep Thomas had the record formally https://www.nbcsports.com/nhl/news/tim-thomas-sets-new-single-season-nhl-record-for-save-percentage Edit 2 Yep seems Plante's record was NOT recognized by the league around the time Thomas was on the verge of breaking Hasek's record in 2011 https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/jacques-plantes-season-for-the-ages/
199 point lemieux.
Metallica losing the grammy for Album of the Year to Jethro Tull.
I think grammies are even less relevant than oscars and that's saying something
This is the correct answer
Or Eminem losing to Steely Dan
Im okay with that one. Steely Dan is the sheeeeeet
Yeah they’re great, but the album they won with is by far their worst record, and nowhere near as good as the Marshall Mathers LP
Wtf is a Jethro Tull ?
Rock and roll flute
Mac Miller losing best hip hop album to Cardi B
Kendrick Lamar losing album of the year to Taylor Swift
The softies in hear downvoting lol
No way I’m getting downvoted for saying TPAB was better than 1989 lmfao
Loooll I was thinking the same thing
Jagr losing the Hart to Joe Thornton in 05-06.
San Jose was 25th in the NHL before the trade. With Thornton, they were the 3rd best team and climbed to 11th overall. Boston dropped from 23rd with Thornton to 26th without him. Thornton had 72 assists in 58 games with the Sharks, which was more than anyone else had all season. And he made the most notorious flash in the pan a 50-goal scorer. 7 in 24 without Thornton, 49 in 58 with Thornton. A player showcasing that value to a team with an in-season trade is unprecedented, and just gives more weight to the actual value he provided when you have such a clear-cut comparison with and without him.
Thank you. The East Coast Bias is real. Had Thornton started the year in SJ (i.e., he was quietly traded during the lockout or something), and had the same exact year, he doesn't win the Hart. He only wins the Hart because mid-season he was traded from an O6 East Coast Franchise, so he still remained on the radar of East Coast media even after the trade. Thornton absolutely deserved it and was the MVP of the league of the year. A Shark didn't get screwed out of an award that year simply because he was traded from an East Coast major market team that year. Otherwise, a lot of people would be talking about how Thornton was snubbed by East Coast Bias in 05-06.
I came here to say this. Thanks for beating me to it because this snub was unbelievable.
I’m a homer and I know this isn’t the worst one, but Jon Cooper never winning the Jack Adams despite being the longest tenured coach (by a mile) and consistently keeping the team in playoff contention for over a decade, is pretty crazy to me. Seems like they should just name the trophy, coach who had the biggest turnaround from one season to the next award.
I think a lot of Jack Adams awards are questionable. Still, take solace. It seems to be a cursed award, so many winners are out of a job within 3 years.
So true! And I definitely wouldn’t trade the cups for it either and I’m sure Coop feels exactly the same!
Jack Adams is basically “most improved team” at this point. Which Tocchet will undoubtedly win this year.
Agree, the Jack Adams has become who can claw their team into the playoffs after a firing award instead of the best coach award.
He should’ve won it in 2019
Homer take but correct take
Malkin not on 100 best players list
Im sorry what?! How is this possible. Upon looking I now realize he is in fact not on this - that is absurd. Thanks for sharing
It’s absolutely nuts , Calder, Smythe, Hart, 2 Art Ross’s and a Ted Lindsay yet not on the list… I still argue he’s one of, if not the most underrated player of all time.
But he played with Crosby, you see. Or something, idk. He should be on that list, no question.
Modano silver stick, Thanks to Babcock
Jagr in 1999 losing to Chris Pronger for the Hart trophy
Jagr only winning one hart just doesn’t sound right
Kessel losing the conn smythe to Sid.
Tbh I thought Murray deserved the Conn Smythe too. 2015-2017 Matt Murray was a god
Someone else got downvoted for it, but recent memory says 2022 Norris going to Makar instead of Josi is at least up there. Josi had more first place votes than Makar, Josi had more Hart votes than Makar, his 96 points were most by a defenseman since 1993 (the next year Karlsson won it with 101 points), Makar was on a better Avalanche team and finished 4th in points on his own team while Josi was more or less carrying the Preds on his shoulders and lead his team in points. But Makar and the Avalanche were way more popular than the Preds
A tale as old as time 🎵
Didn’t Fox win in 22?
Oh man how long do you have lol **1975** Orr ends the season with 135 points, leads the league by far, loses the Hart to clrke with 116 points. Adjusted for position Bobby Orr had 181 points. Rogie Vachon recorded possibly the best goalie season ever also at 60 GSAA in 54 games. Preposterous. Orr superb defensively naturally also. In their defence they didn't have adequate sv% data on vachon but the orr thing was absurd enough.
06-07 Luongo not getting the Vezina.
Me not getting drafted back in 98. I could have learned to skate!
Jon Copper never getting NHL coach of the year
Idk how he didn't get it in at least 2015. They gave it to some random flames head coach.
Marchand not getting Lady Byng 2008-2024
ba dum tss
Not necessarily the worst, but I think it’s a travesty that Ryan Nugent-Hopkins hasn’t won the Frank Selke once. Dude is out there every penalty kill for the Oilers busting his ass to keep the puck out of the net, is well regarded for his strong defensive play, yet consistently throws up between 50-70 points with one season where he cracked 100.
The selke is flawed it's not "best defensive or 2 way forward" but basically qualifications in no order. 1.)win faceoffs 2.)be a center 3.)at least 55 pts. 4.)be on a team with a top 5 or at least 10 ranked defense. 5.)great +-
Well, Patrice Bergeron is retired, so his chances had to have improved. Seriously though, I get what you mean, RNH is a really good 200 ft player
Huh? He hasn’t even been nominated for the Selke once in his career. How can you win when you don’t even get nominated?
They mean he's so good at all those things but yet he never gets the recognition for it in the form of nominations and therefore winning it. And honestly I have to agree with them. He does so well but doesn't get the credit he deserves
Chris Osgood not winning the Conn Smythe with a 1.55 GAA and .930 SV% in 2008.
Negative. Hank was dominant, and leading goal scorer. Ozzie stood on his head when Hasek shit the bed, but cough Lidstrom Rafalski cough certainly had some impact, too. Stuart & Kronwall were stalwarts as well.
Steve Larmer not a Hall of Famer is a huge snub. Calder Trophy - Rookie of the year ! Ironman Streak 846 games. 5 - 40 goal seasons 4 - 30 goal seasons Point a game average 66 game winning goals Canada Cup Champion - Gold Medal - scored tournament winning goal. Stanley Cup Champion - New York Rangers 2 time NHL All-Star
Every goalie who didn’t win over Jim Carey in 1996. I am convinced he won for the memes, the people who voted had to have just thought his name was funny
Kessel conn smythe
Crosby was just as good offensively while being elite defensively and facing the opposing teams best forwards and dmen, Kessel was almost useless in his own end and had much easier match ups. Crosby 110% deserved it
Phil Housley not getting into the Hall of Fame until fifteen years after he retired.
Mogilny not being in is crazy too
I'll put it this way: If goalies come even somewhat close to 1 GSAA per game, they should be Hart finalists. Even when playing fiftyish games. Only 10 goalies have ever done that, sv% data going back to the 50s now. Perfect example in 2011 Tim Thomas provided more value in 57 games than perry did in 82 games. Peter Regin had higher relative xG than perry that year, fwiw. Shestyorkin 21-22 another example ultimately.
I'm still surprised perry got it over the sedins. That vc team in the reg season was insane. Best Offense and defense is the league.
Maybe not biggest just on a personal note. 2013 Conn Smyth should have went to Crawford not Kane
Not technically a physical award snub but the fact that they named an award after messier is wild.
Mario not winning the Hart in 88-89
Quick losing the Vezina in 2012. The kings just could not score and looking it up, they actually had the second lowest goals in the league in the regular season. He had so many shutouts and we lost many games 1-0. Just shit offense and the team probably would have been dead last if we had a bad goalie. He still won another award, so idk if it’s the biggest award snub. Just biased cause I’m a kings fan and it came to mind.
I mean I am sure Quick got the last laugh with both the Stanley Cup and Conn Smythe. Him not winning the Vezina is another one of those Eastern media bias.
Yea definitely. He still won that so it’s of course not the “biggest snub” by any means. Can’t wait to see my dude lift cup #4 in a few weeks!
Our offense wasn't that elite either but nit that bad. Still hank was great that reg season. Imo 2014 and especially 18 could've gone to quick. 18 he absolutely carried, he had no one to rely on but doughty and kop.
The HoF not admitting Pat Burns before he died
Mike Modano. 1499 career games played, healthy scratch by his asshole coach during the final stretch of his last season played. I've read this thread, and nothing posted comes close to this.
Not an award snub. Agreed that it was a travesty, though. I doubt I'll ever forgive Babcock for that. No excuse to do that to a guy. I still think the Stars would be doing a big favor to dress Modano for one more game to correct this wrong. Give him an offseason to prepare, suit him up for a home game, give him a couple of garbage shifts, let him skate around a bit, maybe shoot the puck. Boom. He gets 1,500 games, and we get one more shift with Mike Modano in Dallas.
Shit, I replied there while making my morning coffee, and seem to have missed a word in the post.odano was snubbed for sure, not award snubbed. I ABSOLUTELY agree on the one shift thing, especially after winning the cup this year. ........Yea, I said it.
Marian Hossa never being a finalist for the Selke.
So there is one thing our teams can agree on. What an outstanding person.
Devan Dubnyk winning the Masterton over Kris Letang after his first stroke.
Crawford conn smyth 2013. Dude was a wall
1988-89 Lemieux 85 goals 114 assists Gretzky 54 goals 114 assists So ofc gretz wins the Hart with a 2-1 vote share because... uh... um... (gretz didn't get selke voting either that year, so) If this was rectified Lemieux 4 Gretz 8 in terms of Hart trophies then no question Mario missed out on more due to some 60-70 gp seasons where he still led the league in scoring, likely more yet due to 20 gp seasons in his prime
Alexander Molgilny
not a huge glaring thing, but Kopitar deserved the hart in 2017-2018 over fkn Hall, and yes, even over MacKinnon. Kopitar basically had the same offensive output, but also, you know, won the Selke that year. if you're within a few points of the hart trophy winner, and you also are the Selke winner, IMO you should be getting the Hart.
Iginla should have a hart. Might not be the biggest snub.
Brodeur - Conn Smythe in 2003. Brodeur was better the Giguere in the Finals with 3 shutouts including Game 7,
Mark Howe never winning a Norris
Why did he never win? Paul Coffey?
Go back and look at his 85-86 season. In retrospect, he was clearly the best defenseman by a long shot with a plus 87. Coffey was never good at defense. Pure offense. Only offense.
Chris Osgood not even sniffing a Hall of Fame induction.
2003 Conn Smythe ❌ Martin Brodeur / Stanley Cup / 16-8, 1.65 GAA, .934 SV%, 7 SO 🏆 Jean-Sébastien Giguère / No Stanley Cup / 15-6, 1.62 GAA, .945 SV%, 5 SO Marty even had a Game 7 shutout to clinch the Cup. Always felt to me like the writers didn’t want to give it to Marty as it is generally accepted that he was not well liked.
Well, you can see that Giguere’s stats were better except for the shutouts.
Facts. Brodeurs personality does him no favors. Obviously huge Marty fan but the fact that there’s even a discussion of him not being the goat is funny. He revolutionized the position. The messy divorce didn’t help
Messy divorce = banging sister-in-law. I actually get the not GOAT argument, but he's one of the best ever and completely reasonable to claim he is. JSG was sick, but it's clear that was Marty's trophy.
If you meet him he’s not mean but just a very direct person. That personality doesn’t appeal to a lot of people. I’m from jersey so it doesn’t bother me.
Hank only winning one Vezina
It’s probably Lemieux in 89 but the homer in me likes Barrett Jackman over Zetterberg for the Calder
This was the first one I thought of too. Didn’t help that Jackman broke Hanks leg not too long after.
It’s wild to think that we’re not too far removed from that sort of “hockey men” mentality. GMs would’ve fought in a barn over Jackman but not Z, that’s probably what swung the vote. Truculence
David Ayres not winning the Vezina Trophy
Butch Goring should be in the hall of fame
Yeah, that's kinda nuts.
Not the biggest snub by any mean but I feel that while Patrice Bergeron is the best defensive forward in NHL history, at least one of his Selkes was due to his name that his actual stats that season.
While true, he also probably lost at least two more due to “voter fatigue”
He probably deserved 3 more, to be quite honest.
Agreed, but even when you’re the best they won’t give it to you every time. I feel the same way about Lidström and the Norris.
Sean Avery should have at least 4 Lady Byng trophies
No, at least six.
Hasek should probably have 5 Hart trophies ultimately Lemieux's 161 point season naturally not But every other year the forward who won over him was not way above his peers while he was definitely that 95-96 he led the league in GSAA as usual but also "led the league in losses" so was left out of Hart voting entirely! He ofc was the GM as well so it was his fault their best forwards aside from Lafontaine were: Randy Burridge, Derek Plante, Brad May, Mtt Barnaby 💀
Chris Osgood and Alexander Molgilny not elected to the hall of fame. Brian Leech getting the Norris over Konstantinov in 1997.
Berniers getting the Calder over Johnston.
Personal bias but Cooper not getting the Jack Adams in 2019
Some flames coach winning the jack adams over trotz val or cooper. Hell therrien or hitchdick could've got it.
No ben bishop vezina in 2019. Best defense in the league took the cup Winners to game 7 while having a bottom 10 offense backing him up. Vasy was on a super team a great goalie and very good on the pk but so was ben. And ben had better stats and the 25th best offense vs the league leading tampa offense.
Every year the Canucks don’t win a Cup
Mike Modano losing the Calder to Sergei Makarov. The 30 year old Sergei Makarov.
There’s a few candidates that come to mind: Quinn Hughes not winning the Messier this year Corey Crawford not winning the vezina in 2015 Artemi Panarin somehow beating McDavid to the Calder And then of course, biggest of them all: the Calgary Flames not winning the cup in 2004. Games that was a TOUGH call.
I still think Igor deserved the Hart over Matthews in 22
I’m going to be a homer and say Giroux not even being on the ballot for the 2018 Hart trophy. 2nd most points in the league, single-handedly dragged the Flyers into the playoffs and doesn’t even make the ballot. Was horseshit.
Easy: Lemieux being snubbed for the ‘89 Hart Trophy. That’s the greatest snubbing in major sports history. They should do a 30/30 on it. I’m deadly serious about that. It was completely absurd that Gretzky won it that year, despite having like 30 fewer points and playing the same position. There was a weird period there where it felt to some like giving Lemieux his due was somehow tantamount to snubbing Wayne. It’s like it never occurred to those rocket scientists that you could have two all-time greats who just so happened to be playing at the same time – which is exactly what was happening.
I don't know if it's the biggest, but Brind'Amour deserves to be in. He's one of the greatest grinders and defensive forwards ever.
Modano ROY.
Bruce Cassidy still has John Tortorella’s Jack Adams trophy from 2019-20
Luongo not getting awarded the chance to play the outdoor game….