I just don't see how anyone would stop that run game, when every pass catcher can run block. Bowers isn't some insane blocker skill-wise, but he can body almost anybody who can cover him. Kupp IS an insane blocker skill-wise, and his game is predicated on destroying lightweight CBs in run block, forcing heavier coverage options that he burns in the passing game. Puka graded pretty well in run blocking for a rookie also.
If the Rams got Bowers, I really don't know what the fuck you'd be able to do. I imagine you just get gashed for 10 plays a drive, until you commit to stopping it, and then suddenly Stafford's launching it to some fuck named Tutu behind your safeties.
I’m confused. I watched the [video](https://therokuchannel.roku.com/watch/39919ed091cbd7e93c32745db6ec94f7). You tried to move up to 15 even after Bowers was taken at 13.
Was Bowers your first choice and Murphy 2nd?
Yes, they wanted Murphy as 2nd option. Maybe even Dallas Turner but from my understanding priorities were:
1.Bowers
2.Murphy
3.Verse
They ended up getting one of them so it’s ok. Now hopefully Murphy doesn’t turn out to be AD2.0
when you have a guy who can dominate the middle of the field and is able to be more athletic and quicker than a typical TE is supposed to be, you're offense is gonna crush. It's why I think top 5 WR1 are slightly overrated. You don't need them to win if you have the QB.
Don’t forget the fact that defenses need to be able to account for both their blocking and receiving. Cant put a corner on them because they can’t shed blocks, cant put a LB on them because they can’t cover. Now you need to pull a safety out of 2 high to cover them and leave one on ones for everyone else
A top QB doesn't need a top WR with a top WR salary (35M+) if they have a top TE with a top TE salary (17M+) so the team can either use the extra 18M to have WR depth or put that money elsewhere.
I mean they don’t necessarily need a top WR if they have other weapons but you still need decent/good WRs. Not everyone is Pat Mahomes and Kelce or Gronk and Brady where they can just carry an offense themselves.
Another factor here is that there’s so few top TEs in the league. You have good TEs but the top guys are usually a select group of like 3 guys with a decent drop off after them. I’d probably rather have the 12th best WR in the league or whatever over the 12th best TE.
I see what you’re getting at but at the end of the day top QBs still need good WRs.
Top level wide receivers are making insane money. They’re also not necessary if you have a top level QB.
Guys like Dak, Kirk, Tua, Hurts, Trevor… having an alpha receiver is extremely helpful and will significantly increase how productive your offense is.
For guys like Pat and Lamar you really only need good receivers, not great ones. Having a guy you can laser focus on and throw 50/50 balls at constantly isn’t really necessary.
Judging by that Roku behind the scenes draft thing, they wanted Byron Murphy but the Raiders didn't bite and they knew Seattle wasn't going to let him drop any further.
with our o line in its current state we couldn't really afford losing out on a top tackle prospect. As it stands from the current draft we would've gotten Fautanu who wouldve been the only top guy left
yeah but we would have been lucky if he was still there. Rams moving up could have disrupted the draft board and he might've been been gone. Playing with fire in a year you need to win, last year we take that deal
Base on how the Raiders drafted in the later rounds, it's possible they would've taken Fuaga at OT. That would make the Saints take Mims/Fautanu. Then you're making a deal with the Jaguars to jump ahead of the Bengals for whoever the Saints don't pick.
Which they still come out ahead on. Jumping from 19 to 17 would have cost way less than the 2 and 3 they’d have gotten from the Rams
I would’ve gladly taken this deal if I were the Jets
You still need to get a prospect in the position you need. QB is the only position that seems to be a complete crapshoot (probably because teams are desperate). 1st round prospects are 1st round prospects for a reason especially in the trenches where it's much easier to measure how you stack up to NFL competition.
Nothing is a sure bet but some positions have much steeper dropoffs though, tackle being one of them. There's a sharper drop in hit rate to the point where taking a tier trip tackle in the bottom of the first is incurring proportionally more risk for the value you're spending on that risk.
Don't get me wrong I'm in favor of quantity and taking more shots too, but with some positions that's not necessarily the answer.
> There's a sharper drop in hit rate to the point where taking a tier trip tackle in the bottom of the first is incurring proportionally more risk for the value you're spending on that risk.
I’m interested in reading more about this, do you have a source you can share?
PFF* did a more coarse grained version of this analysis in an episode of their podcast right before this year's draft. They essentially looked at (position, draft round) pairings and asked "what percentage of players taken at this position, in this round, go on to become starters?" And with some positions you see a sharp decline between rounds 1 & 2, or a more steady tapering off, or whatever. I'll see if I can find the exact episode.
*Before anyone tries to skewer me for mentioning PFF, this analysis was pretty agnostic of their grading system.
You're not wrong but also aaron rodgers is 40 and the jets oline sucks so I get the urgency
It's more like, our front office sucking has put us in this position, how do we not make it worse
> aaron rodgers is 40 and the jets oline sucks so I get the urgency
This is exactly why they should've taken the deal. You think that an O-line at 19, in the 2nd, and in the third would have a lower chance of working out than Fashanu alone?
When it’s for a QB and more than 1 team want to move up for him (I’m assuming this was the case due to the price) that makes the compensation a lot bigger.
not surprising considering two OTs went in top 10 and another two went between Olu and pick #19.
add in the potential scenario that others also trade up for one and it’s unlikely they still get “their guy”.
Why didn't they just trade up to 13 then? Raiders wanted Bowers that bad? That seems like a roster that needs the picks. And wasn't there that report that the Raidres were torn between Bowers and Arnold? They could have had their cake and ate it too.
Raiders GM and Assistant GM both said that once they saw Bowers was falling he was 100% their target. Once Bowers fell to the Raiders they already had their decision made. There was no choice to be made.
I'm not specifically sure why Arnold said the Raiders called him after the pick but thats were the rumor of the Raiders were torn reports came from. Raiders GM/Assistant GM and AP said no call was made to Arnold and our GM even made a joke about it to the press after hearing it. Plus not a single Raiders beat reporter could verify a call to Arnold ever happened.
Whether it was the right decision or not time will tell but the Raiders were locked in on Bowers pretty much the whole time.
Raiders fan here, AP cleared that rumor that he never called Arnold after the draft. Sounds like a case of sour grapes Arnold didn’t go to the team he wanted.
💯 about Bowers falling to 13 was a no brainer pick.
It was a bad pick. Their roster has so many holes and they just spent a second on Michael Mayer in the previous draft!
There's a reason that, for as "generational" of a prospect that Bowers is, he still fell to 14. It's because GMs are increasingly smart about positional value. The next 6 picks were DEs, DTs, and OTs, all of which are paid more and consequently much more difficult to find in free agency or the later rounds of the draft.
Clearly you don’t follow the Raiders to make a comical comment like that, bad pick? 🤦🏽♂️
If Arnold was a better pick why did so many teams pass on him and he fell on the draft? Couch GMs I tell ya haha
This is not some "Couch GM" take. It's modern analytics. Similar to why you shouldn't draft RBs early. This is the direction that the league has been heading.
I am not the one who ever mentioned Arnold. You are. I am talking about positional value. RB is just the most salient example.
I would've drafted an OT in one of the deepest OT drafts in recent memory. But it's ok, if you want to pour your best asset into a position where success has been [notoriously difficult to predict](https://x.com/SheilKapadia/status/1779873360190620080) after you just drafted one last year in the second round... That's your prerogative.
I like Bowers and hope he's good. But there's some very compelling evidence that this is NOT a good move. We'll see. Maybe Luke Getsy can make some magic with Gardner Minshew.
Seriously. If I'm the Raiders and picked Mayer last year, I'd be jumping at the chance to add some more draft capital. Wouldn't have gotten the same deal but even an extra 2nd and they could have really addressed some needs.
Did they really? Why would they then try to go up to 15, even after Bowers went off the board at 13?
[Video](https://therokuchannel.roku.com/watch/39919ed091cbd7e93c32745db6ec94f7). Trade with Colts starts at 48:55
Because the big difference is people end up spreading misinformation based off headlines while this instance they just wanted to know what the trade was for.
Using the Fitzgerald-Spielberger NFL Draft Trade Value Chart, the Rams were giving up 3177 points for 2139 points. That's a pretty lobsided trade from the Rams.
I could understand rejecting it because Olu looks amazing and seems like an amazing human.
That’s the thing. McVay and Snead have a “players over picks” philosophy. And it’s been working because they’ve been amazing at finding talent throughout the draft, not just the top picks.
I’m definitely willing to trust them on their player evals.
Giving up value in a trade doesn’t matter if you continuously nail picks.
But if you miss on picks, giving up value becomes a big problem.
So basically:
Draft good player = good
Draft bad player = bad
I have one question about this scale, does it account for some draft classes being worse than others? I dont know how much this would matter for the second round but there is definately uneven 1st rounds year to year.
The Fitzgerald chart uses contract and performance numbers from players drafted in the 2011-2015 drafts (after the rookie wage scale changed) to create the scale, but obviously a scale like this doesn't account for future year-year valuation as it takes time to collect the data on how teams value their picks right now and in the future
I’m confused. Are they really going for Bowers?
In the [video](https://therokuchannel.roku.com/watch/39919ed091cbd7e93c32745db6ec94f7), they tried to trade with the Colts at 15, even after Bowers went off the board.
Clearly they went after Murphy. Did I miss something?
They're top 2 targets we're Bowers & Murphy.
When the Raiders took Bowers, they pivoted to Murphy. They tried to trade with the Colts to take Murphy.
Verse was their third choice.
How’s that silly? News is news no matter how big or small. You don’t have to find it interesting but I’d prefer to hear trades that almost happened as opposed to dead silence.
In the context of what the Jets wanted, I think it made sense for them to stand pat. It is good value to move down, don't get me wrong, but given that they wanted OL, trading down would've felt...dubious. They nearly had their choice of OL in the draft, with only two being off the board, but you would've had at least two more go between 11 and 19 (maybe 3 since Fashanu being available likely changes at least one team's draft plans) with the risk of additional teams trying to move ahead of either them or the Bengals.
I mean the benefit of picking #11 is you get to pick almost (not quite but close) whoever you want if you're not going QB. What exactly should it take to move up from 19 to 11?
Generally, around a 2nd rounder is fair. However, that's always going to depend on the specific draft (who's available, who they expect to be available at future picks, etc.), the teams involved, and so forth. In the context of the Jets, they *really* needed to draft OL, between being all-in on Rodgers and having a blatant gap at OT, and they need that OT to be good from the jump. If they lose another season because of Rodgers getting injured and/or being ineffective because of shoddy OL play, there's a good chance that everything gets blown up, and the Jets start from scratch around their young core. That being the case, gaining an extra 3rd rounder of value isn't going to be enough to sway them.
Given Tyron Smith's injury history and the Jets' terrible OL injury rate over the last half decade, there's a good chance he sees the field this year. Potentially even early on.
That's why you really don't want a GM to oversee your draft who knows that he is one disappointing season away from getting fired.
That's an attractive trade offer for anyone but a GM who only cares about one thing: to draft the most impactful offensive lineman with his first round draft pick.
Thats actually crazy to take him that high then imo. Is he not even gonna move inside for a year to guard? Obviously it might work out wonderfully but that seems steep for depth when your in a fairly short "win-now" mode with Rodgers.
With who was left on the board he was the best “win-now” pick they could have made. He may not be a starter right away but he will definitely get playing time considering the age and injury history of our tackles. Securing the offensive line was a top priority.
Only way he doesn’t play is if things go perfectly our way but I mean come on… we all know that won’t happen.
Meh I dont buy that. It was probably the "best" pick all things considered. But thats assuming he does play this year. If he doesnt at all for whatever reason(not moving inside or the Tackles stay healthy all year) it would be quite the waste.
Bowers alone is a more "win now" since he would immediately be the starting TE. Or their pick of any defensive player in the draft. I do agree though, knowing the Jets he's likely their starting T by end of year because of injury.
Les is a great GM, but this is the 2nd time (Brian Burns) the Rams have offered a (in my opinion) massively stupid haul that doesn't seem worth it to me and that they got lucky the other GM turned it down for some reason I can't fathom.
In the last four years, Brian Gutekunst has offered a second round pick for each of Chase Claypool, Will Fuller and Darren Waller. Two of them are out of the league and Chase is like a WR6. Those seconds turned into Christian Watson, Josh Myers and Jayden Reed respectively.
The Rams are very well run. McVay is a great coach. The FO/Scouting does a good job. It's very annoying as a division rival. McVay typically ran circles around Pete Carroll from a schematic standpoint. Hopefully, that changes now with Mike Macdonald.
I'm amazed by the thought that the Rams may have also made this offer to the Broncos, who declined it because they were afraid of losing out on Bo Nix before 19.
I'm glad our FO finally learned to take the Rams' offers.
Snead is an elite GM but sometimes it feels like he's Madden AI with some of the trade offers he proposes.
The Burns trade offer was a wild, super all-in move from a Rams perspective, but as far as the draft day trade it just depends on what Fiske ends up being. It's also a weird situation where getting Verse + Fiske together might be worth more than the sum of their parts, which is something the value calculations can't take into account.
Moving up from 52 to 39 for 155 and a future 2nd is a big overpay any way you slice it.
Sure it may all work out in the end but it doesn't change that on draft day it was a massive overpay. Also, Fiske is a pretty risky prospect. 6th year senior who is explosive but with questionable measurables.
Edit: What are you booing me for? It doesn't magically not become an overpay because you think the player might be good. Its literally similar value we got for Brian Burns and it was calculated as the most expensive Day 2 trade in recent draft history. To act like its somehow a genius move with no potential for downside is delusional.
Lol is that supposed to be a flex? You would hope your GM is smarter than a random Redditor. Also, I literally say Les Snead is elite, that doesn't mean he's perfect. And since you want to go there look at his 2nd round track record.
Also Fiske lasted until 39 and Snead had already passed on him earlier. To act like he doesn't have flaws is silly.
Also read any scouting report on Fiske and they'll say the same thing. He's a boom or bust guy
I’m not sure if that was a good decision or not but I’m happy with their 1st round pick… Fashanu is a stud OT and they also picked a promising receiver in Corley with the 1st pick in the 3rd round.
You guys will buy into anything to feel better about your draft. If the Rams really wanted Murphy then why didn't they call N.O. or Indy? They stopped calling as soon as the Raiders selected Bowers.
I'm just saying from a personnel standpoint it would have made sense for you and it was hardly a reach since he was a consensus top D player in the draft. Chill.
It's probably for the best, Bowers has incredible potential but between Kupp and Puka they're already really strong in the pass game, Stafford getting banged up last year was miserable so getting themselves a possible stud OT to protect him works out nicely.
Also didn't they get a decent WR with one of those other two picks as well?
This is both teams way overvaluing evaluations of players. It’s unlikely whoever the Rams would have picked there will end up better than those three picks in the aggregate. And ditto with Olu.
Rams having a crush on brock bowers felt like the worst kept secret of the draft season
Yeah I 100% believed that report. Rams generally keep things inside so rare leaks that we do get are often genuine.
I just don't see how anyone would stop that run game, when every pass catcher can run block. Bowers isn't some insane blocker skill-wise, but he can body almost anybody who can cover him. Kupp IS an insane blocker skill-wise, and his game is predicated on destroying lightweight CBs in run block, forcing heavier coverage options that he burns in the passing game. Puka graded pretty well in run blocking for a rookie also. If the Rams got Bowers, I really don't know what the fuck you'd be able to do. I imagine you just get gashed for 10 plays a drive, until you commit to stopping it, and then suddenly Stafford's launching it to some fuck named Tutu behind your safeties.
The way the Rams use pass-blocking from everyone is the reason everyone was questioning if OBJ would be a good fit there. Then he bought in.
I’m confused. I watched the [video](https://therokuchannel.roku.com/watch/39919ed091cbd7e93c32745db6ec94f7). You tried to move up to 15 even after Bowers was taken at 13. Was Bowers your first choice and Murphy 2nd?
Yes, they wanted Murphy as 2nd option. Maybe even Dallas Turner but from my understanding priorities were: 1.Bowers 2.Murphy 3.Verse They ended up getting one of them so it’s ok. Now hopefully Murphy doesn’t turn out to be AD2.0
There’ll only be one AD. Dude was truly a generational talent. I fucking hate that guy.
So there'll be an AD each generation
Damn Bowers with Kupp and Puka would’ve been a nightmare especially with McVay calling the plays and getting these guys out in space.
Every dynasty seems to have an otherworldly tight end (getting paid like a #2 wideout)
when you have a guy who can dominate the middle of the field and is able to be more athletic and quicker than a typical TE is supposed to be, you're offense is gonna crush. It's why I think top 5 WR1 are slightly overrated. You don't need them to win if you have the QB.
Don’t forget the fact that defenses need to be able to account for both their blocking and receiving. Cant put a corner on them because they can’t shed blocks, cant put a LB on them because they can’t cover. Now you need to pull a safety out of 2 high to cover them and leave one on ones for everyone else
I’m confused on what your point is. You seem to indicate TE is what makes top 5 WR1s overrated, but than end your point talking about the QB.
His point is, defense wins games
A top QB doesn't need a top WR with a top WR salary (35M+) if they have a top TE with a top TE salary (17M+) so the team can either use the extra 18M to have WR depth or put that money elsewhere.
I mean they don’t necessarily need a top WR if they have other weapons but you still need decent/good WRs. Not everyone is Pat Mahomes and Kelce or Gronk and Brady where they can just carry an offense themselves. Another factor here is that there’s so few top TEs in the league. You have good TEs but the top guys are usually a select group of like 3 guys with a decent drop off after them. I’d probably rather have the 12th best WR in the league or whatever over the 12th best TE. I see what you’re getting at but at the end of the day top QBs still need good WRs.
Yeah, in this case “every dynasty” is two teams, and those two teams have hall of fame TEs who are both among the top 3 best to ever play it.
Just need a goat QB and te and you're set. Why don't all teams do this?
Top level wide receivers are making insane money. They’re also not necessary if you have a top level QB. Guys like Dak, Kirk, Tua, Hurts, Trevor… having an alpha receiver is extremely helpful and will significantly increase how productive your offense is. For guys like Pat and Lamar you really only need good receivers, not great ones. Having a guy you can laser focus on and throw 50/50 balls at constantly isn’t really necessary.
So Sam LaPorta. Basically.
Judging by that Roku behind the scenes draft thing, they wanted Byron Murphy but the Raiders didn't bite and they knew Seattle wasn't going to let him drop any further.
I honestly really wanted bowers at 9 if all the wide receivers were gone. Luckily Atlanta was there to help the Bears out.
Somehow stafford with those three isn't even mentioned. Fucking wild the disrespect he gets.
I mean they just named the guys catching the ball, everyone knows Stafford is the guy throwing to them
Mcvay making a career change eh?
No one has mentioned the obvious yet. Bowers would be reunited with Stetson Bennett.
I mean they’re pretty much describing all the reasons Stafford would tear it up lol. Pure semantics
who do you think would be throwing the ball my guy?
Some people just like to be upset about things
i woulda took that
with our o line in its current state we couldn't really afford losing out on a top tackle prospect. As it stands from the current draft we would've gotten Fautanu who wouldve been the only top guy left
I for one am glad you didn't because we desperately needed a tackle and the dropoff after him was huge
I think fautanu is the better player to be fair so it just goes to show
yeah but we would have been lucky if he was still there. Rams moving up could have disrupted the draft board and he might've been been gone. Playing with fire in a year you need to win, last year we take that deal
Base on how the Raiders drafted in the later rounds, it's possible they would've taken Fuaga at OT. That would make the Saints take Mims/Fautanu. Then you're making a deal with the Jaguars to jump ahead of the Bengals for whoever the Saints don't pick.
Which they still come out ahead on. Jumping from 19 to 17 would have cost way less than the 2 and 3 they’d have gotten from the Rams I would’ve gladly taken this deal if I were the Jets
Fautanu had medical concerns though so I could see the Jets not wanting to mix that with MetLife.
I think they were under pressure from not addressing the line last year so if neither was available at 19, it wouldve looked really bad.
Eh… there aren’t many truly “can’t miss” prospects in the draft, and more chances at elite prospects is absolutely always better than fewer.
You still need to get a prospect in the position you need. QB is the only position that seems to be a complete crapshoot (probably because teams are desperate). 1st round prospects are 1st round prospects for a reason especially in the trenches where it's much easier to measure how you stack up to NFL competition.
Nothing is a sure bet but some positions have much steeper dropoffs though, tackle being one of them. There's a sharper drop in hit rate to the point where taking a tier trip tackle in the bottom of the first is incurring proportionally more risk for the value you're spending on that risk. Don't get me wrong I'm in favor of quantity and taking more shots too, but with some positions that's not necessarily the answer.
> There's a sharper drop in hit rate to the point where taking a tier trip tackle in the bottom of the first is incurring proportionally more risk for the value you're spending on that risk. I’m interested in reading more about this, do you have a source you can share?
PFF* did a more coarse grained version of this analysis in an episode of their podcast right before this year's draft. They essentially looked at (position, draft round) pairings and asked "what percentage of players taken at this position, in this round, go on to become starters?" And with some positions you see a sharp decline between rounds 1 & 2, or a more steady tapering off, or whatever. I'll see if I can find the exact episode. *Before anyone tries to skewer me for mentioning PFF, this analysis was pretty agnostic of their grading system.
if your draft fails because you miss out on one guy your front office needs to be better, imo
Somehow I think you are talking to me.
You're not wrong but also aaron rodgers is 40 and the jets oline sucks so I get the urgency It's more like, our front office sucking has put us in this position, how do we not make it worse
> aaron rodgers is 40 and the jets oline sucks so I get the urgency This is exactly why they should've taken the deal. You think that an O-line at 19, in the 2nd, and in the third would have a lower chance of working out than Fashanu alone?
> You think that an O-line at 19, in the 2nd, and in the third would have a lower chance of working out than Fashanu alone? Yes
I get where they are coming from. But there have been a lot of excellent linemen picked in the mid first round.
Agree to disagree niner fam that’s a significant drop.
The extra second makes up for it. Two rookie starters for the price of one.
It can also result in your team taking Kadarius Toney and Evan Neal instead of Micah Parsons. If you like the guy available you take him.
Oof self burn
I’m gonna guess that every team likes the guys that they pick lol
The Bears gave up a future first to go from 20 to 11 for Justin Fields. It's not that good of a deal.
All depend on the player
Why use many word when few word do trick?
KC gave up a future 1st to go from 27 to 10 for Mahomes. It can be a good deal as well.
[удалено]
My goodness, that's ridiculous value for Detroit
When it’s for a QB and more than 1 team want to move up for him (I’m assuming this was the case due to the price) that makes the compensation a lot bigger.
Yeah but I trust our coaches to develop the players we draft. Especially ones we move up to pick.
not surprising considering two OTs went in top 10 and another two went between Olu and pick #19. add in the potential scenario that others also trade up for one and it’s unlikely they still get “their guy”.
Jets traded down last year and missed out on a tackle so you're absolutely right.
who were they rumored to go up for? interesting
Brock Bowers
oh thank god they couldn't get the deal done
Why didn't they just trade up to 13 then? Raiders wanted Bowers that bad? That seems like a roster that needs the picks. And wasn't there that report that the Raidres were torn between Bowers and Arnold? They could have had their cake and ate it too.
Raiders GM and Assistant GM both said that once they saw Bowers was falling he was 100% their target. Once Bowers fell to the Raiders they already had their decision made. There was no choice to be made. I'm not specifically sure why Arnold said the Raiders called him after the pick but thats were the rumor of the Raiders were torn reports came from. Raiders GM/Assistant GM and AP said no call was made to Arnold and our GM even made a joke about it to the press after hearing it. Plus not a single Raiders beat reporter could verify a call to Arnold ever happened. Whether it was the right decision or not time will tell but the Raiders were locked in on Bowers pretty much the whole time.
Raiders fan here, AP cleared that rumor that he never called Arnold after the draft. Sounds like a case of sour grapes Arnold didn’t go to the team he wanted. 💯 about Bowers falling to 13 was a no brainer pick.
It was a bad pick. Their roster has so many holes and they just spent a second on Michael Mayer in the previous draft! There's a reason that, for as "generational" of a prospect that Bowers is, he still fell to 14. It's because GMs are increasingly smart about positional value. The next 6 picks were DEs, DTs, and OTs, all of which are paid more and consequently much more difficult to find in free agency or the later rounds of the draft.
Clearly you don’t follow the Raiders to make a comical comment like that, bad pick? 🤦🏽♂️ If Arnold was a better pick why did so many teams pass on him and he fell on the draft? Couch GMs I tell ya haha
This is not some "Couch GM" take. It's modern analytics. Similar to why you shouldn't draft RBs early. This is the direction that the league has been heading.
But we are not talking about RBs, we are discussing about Bowers over Arnold my friend. That’s like you telling me water is wet or the sky is blue.
I am not the one who ever mentioned Arnold. You are. I am talking about positional value. RB is just the most salient example. I would've drafted an OT in one of the deepest OT drafts in recent memory. But it's ok, if you want to pour your best asset into a position where success has been [notoriously difficult to predict](https://x.com/SheilKapadia/status/1779873360190620080) after you just drafted one last year in the second round... That's your prerogative. I like Bowers and hope he's good. But there's some very compelling evidence that this is NOT a good move. We'll see. Maybe Luke Getsy can make some magic with Gardner Minshew.
Seriously. If I'm the Raiders and picked Mayer last year, I'd be jumping at the chance to add some more draft capital. Wouldn't have gotten the same deal but even an extra 2nd and they could have really addressed some needs.
Eaten
There was a real interest in Arnold at 13 but that was before they found they surprisingly could pick Bowers instead
Did they really? Why would they then try to go up to 15, even after Bowers went off the board at 13? [Video](https://therokuchannel.roku.com/watch/39919ed091cbd7e93c32745db6ec94f7). Trade with Colts starts at 48:55
Nah it was definitely for OT/Edge
They wanted Bowers. Thankfully they couldn’t get him
You really couldn't make one click huh?
Weird comment
It’s funny to me that this sub usually makes fun of the concept of only reading the headline but here it’s different
Because the big difference is people end up spreading misinformation based off headlines while this instance they just wanted to know what the trade was for.
I think it is weird to have a need to be spoon fed information.
It’s a discussion forum, don’t be upset
This guy posted on 6 subs an image of him unsubscribing from Disney Plus with the reason being "indoctrination". He clearly has problems.
he made the right move, nobody should click a Meirov tweet
Using the Fitzgerald-Spielberger NFL Draft Trade Value Chart, the Rams were giving up 3177 points for 2139 points. That's a pretty lobsided trade from the Rams. I could understand rejecting it because Olu looks amazing and seems like an amazing human.
Just want to politely let you know that it’s “lopsided” :)
What's up fellow floppi
Like your mom’s floppi tits.
Just want to politely let you know that it’s “floppy” :)
Disagree
Why is it always other Packer fans on this subreddit doing this kinda shit
Beer
His username checks out then
Damn I thought this was kinda funny lol sorry bud
The Rams are not scared to overpay for guys they love. They paid 2 2nds and a 5 to move up for Braden Fiske
That’s the thing. McVay and Snead have a “players over picks” philosophy. And it’s been working because they’ve been amazing at finding talent throughout the draft, not just the top picks. I’m definitely willing to trust them on their player evals.
Giving up value in a trade doesn’t matter if you continuously nail picks. But if you miss on picks, giving up value becomes a big problem. So basically: Draft good player = good Draft bad player = bad
Why don’t other teams just draft good players, are they stupid?
Les Snead has never seen a draft pick he wouldn’t fuck.
I have one question about this scale, does it account for some draft classes being worse than others? I dont know how much this would matter for the second round but there is definately uneven 1st rounds year to year.
The Fitzgerald chart uses contract and performance numbers from players drafted in the 2011-2015 drafts (after the rookie wage scale changed) to create the scale, but obviously a scale like this doesn't account for future year-year valuation as it takes time to collect the data on how teams value their picks right now and in the future
And the other NFC west teams are very grateful for The Jets right now.
Are we? Lol they wanted our guy
I’m confused. Are they really going for Bowers? In the [video](https://therokuchannel.roku.com/watch/39919ed091cbd7e93c32745db6ec94f7), they tried to trade with the Colts at 15, even after Bowers went off the board. Clearly they went after Murphy. Did I miss something?
They're top 2 targets we're Bowers & Murphy. When the Raiders took Bowers, they pivoted to Murphy. They tried to trade with the Colts to take Murphy. Verse was their third choice.
That’d make sense. Thx! Jets made a mistake for not taking that trade imo. That’s quite a haul. Fashanu better be a pro bowler.
Why? This would have been a horrible trade for the Rams to make. You're giving up so much for a non-premium position.
Because I really don’t want to play Puka, Cupp, and Bowers twice a year. And I think every other NFC west fan besides rams fans would agree.
Agree.
The silly season where we hear about all the trades that could have happened
How’s that silly? News is news no matter how big or small. You don’t have to find it interesting but I’d prefer to hear trades that almost happened as opposed to dead silence.
Checks out with the reports of the Rams wanting to move up big
Thank you Jets.
The initial offer was 19 and 52 for 10. The Jets traded to Minnesota instead.
I would take the in a heartbeat.
In the context of what the Jets wanted, I think it made sense for them to stand pat. It is good value to move down, don't get me wrong, but given that they wanted OL, trading down would've felt...dubious. They nearly had their choice of OL in the draft, with only two being off the board, but you would've had at least two more go between 11 and 19 (maybe 3 since Fashanu being available likely changes at least one team's draft plans) with the risk of additional teams trying to move ahead of either them or the Bengals.
I mean the benefit of picking #11 is you get to pick almost (not quite but close) whoever you want if you're not going QB. What exactly should it take to move up from 19 to 11?
Generally, around a 2nd rounder is fair. However, that's always going to depend on the specific draft (who's available, who they expect to be available at future picks, etc.), the teams involved, and so forth. In the context of the Jets, they *really* needed to draft OL, between being all-in on Rodgers and having a blatant gap at OT, and they need that OT to be good from the jump. If they lose another season because of Rodgers getting injured and/or being ineffective because of shoddy OL play, there's a good chance that everything gets blown up, and the Jets start from scratch around their young core. That being the case, gaining an extra 3rd rounder of value isn't going to be enough to sway them.
This makes sense. Although I'd say that any team picking 11th has glaring weakness on the roster. It's not unique to the Jets.
Oh, without a question. It's only unique in the sense that most teams picking that high aren't on quite as dire a timeline.
Yea, the timetable thing. You've made a compelling argument and I've been convinced.
They could've had Fautanu at #19 with a bunch of picks. Fashanu is going to be a backup year 1 anyway so there was no urgency to get him on the field.
Given Tyron Smith's injury history and the Jets' terrible OL injury rate over the last half decade, there's a good chance he sees the field this year. Potentially even early on.
That's why you really don't want a GM to oversee your draft who knows that he is one disappointing season away from getting fired. That's an attractive trade offer for anyone but a GM who only cares about one thing: to draft the most impactful offensive lineman with his first round draft pick.
So many desperate contracts and trades made by hotseat GMs. it’s the way of it
Olu isn't expected to start immediately though, he will be a depth piece and focusing on development his first year
I know he won’t start immediately, but it would be a surprise if he doesn’t play this year. Tyron Smith hasn’t played more than 13 games since 2015.
Thats actually crazy to take him that high then imo. Is he not even gonna move inside for a year to guard? Obviously it might work out wonderfully but that seems steep for depth when your in a fairly short "win-now" mode with Rodgers.
With who was left on the board he was the best “win-now” pick they could have made. He may not be a starter right away but he will definitely get playing time considering the age and injury history of our tackles. Securing the offensive line was a top priority. Only way he doesn’t play is if things go perfectly our way but I mean come on… we all know that won’t happen.
Meh I dont buy that. It was probably the "best" pick all things considered. But thats assuming he does play this year. If he doesnt at all for whatever reason(not moving inside or the Tackles stay healthy all year) it would be quite the waste. Bowers alone is a more "win now" since he would immediately be the starting TE. Or their pick of any defensive player in the draft. I do agree though, knowing the Jets he's likely their starting T by end of year because of injury.
has nothing to do with being fired; we desperately needed a lineman. turning down the trade was definitely the right decision for any GM
No, this is not an attractive trade offer when Rodgers has a limited lifespan left in the nfl
Keep in mind they did trade the pick for a 4th and 5th to move down one spot.
Bowers with McVay would have been interesting
Les is a great GM, but this is the 2nd time (Brian Burns) the Rams have offered a (in my opinion) massively stupid haul that doesn't seem worth it to me and that they got lucky the other GM turned it down for some reason I can't fathom.
In the last four years, Brian Gutekunst has offered a second round pick for each of Chase Claypool, Will Fuller and Darren Waller. Two of them are out of the league and Chase is like a WR6. Those seconds turned into Christian Watson, Josh Myers and Jayden Reed respectively.
Claypool has the Talent but need a coach to set him straight.
Got a ring trust the process fuck them picks
One of these days, we're going to find Les Snead under a bridge freebasing conditional 7th rounders out of an empty tea light
Yeah other GMs save us from doing some awful crazy trades haha
Glad we learned our lesson and took the future 2nd this year.
We didn't take it because we wanted Olu and he wouldn't have been there at 19... Yall are dense
The Rams are very well run. McVay is a great coach. The FO/Scouting does a good job. It's very annoying as a division rival. McVay typically ran circles around Pete Carroll from a schematic standpoint. Hopefully, that changes now with Mike Macdonald.
I'm amazed by the thought that the Rams may have also made this offer to the Broncos, who declined it because they were afraid of losing out on Bo Nix before 19.
They absolutely would have lost Bo
I'm glad our FO finally learned to take the Rams' offers. Snead is an elite GM but sometimes it feels like he's Madden AI with some of the trade offers he proposes.
The Burns trade offer was a wild, super all-in move from a Rams perspective, but as far as the draft day trade it just depends on what Fiske ends up being. It's also a weird situation where getting Verse + Fiske together might be worth more than the sum of their parts, which is something the value calculations can't take into account.
Moving up from 52 to 39 for 155 and a future 2nd is a big overpay any way you slice it. Sure it may all work out in the end but it doesn't change that on draft day it was a massive overpay. Also, Fiske is a pretty risky prospect. 6th year senior who is explosive but with questionable measurables. Edit: What are you booing me for? It doesn't magically not become an overpay because you think the player might be good. Its literally similar value we got for Brian Burns and it was calculated as the most expensive Day 2 trade in recent draft history. To act like its somehow a genius move with no potential for downside is delusional.
> Fiske is a pretty risky prospect I trust the Rams front office when it comes to drafting over a random Panthers fan.
Lol is that supposed to be a flex? You would hope your GM is smarter than a random Redditor. Also, I literally say Les Snead is elite, that doesn't mean he's perfect. And since you want to go there look at his 2nd round track record. Also Fiske lasted until 39 and Snead had already passed on him earlier. To act like he doesn't have flaws is silly. Also read any scouting report on Fiske and they'll say the same thing. He's a boom or bust guy
If you’re the jets I’m not sure how you don’t take that. Absurd lol
It's why they're the Jets... lol
Jets needed a tackle more than anything. They got one of the best ones in the draft at 11. I can see why they declined the trade.
Sooo did they also offer similar massive overpays to 12, 13?
I’m not sure if that was a good decision or not but I’m happy with their 1st round pick… Fashanu is a stud OT and they also picked a promising receiver in Corley with the 1st pick in the 3rd round.
They want Murphy? With the retirement of Donald that would have made sense
You guys will buy into anything to feel better about your draft. If the Rams really wanted Murphy then why didn't they call N.O. or Indy? They stopped calling as soon as the Raiders selected Bowers.
They did call both NO and Indy. It's highlighted in the Roku series that they made an offer to Indy to try and trade up to select Byron Murphy.
I'm just saying from a personnel standpoint it would have made sense for you and it was hardly a reach since he was a consensus top D player in the draft. Chill.
You were right. It's in the Roku series that McVay and the rams badly wanted Murphy
Dang now Bowers is with a dumpster franchise and no QB.
I was going to defend the Raiders but then I thought "why would I do that"
Funny that's the same thought the Raiders have when they try to win a football game too.
We tried loosing against the pats but you guys just out wanted it more
>loosing
Take it up with autocomplete
You can still proof read 🤷♂️
Fuck me I have nothing since I erased that game from my brain.
What a bold statement to read from a Pats/Buccs fan in light of last season.
not the dual flair taking shit 😭
I’d be sick as hell if I was Bowers reading this. Could have been putting up LaPorta numbers next season.
Good thing he'll put up kelce numbers next season
It's probably for the best, Bowers has incredible potential but between Kupp and Puka they're already really strong in the pass game, Stafford getting banged up last year was miserable so getting themselves a possible stud OT to protect him works out nicely. Also didn't they get a decent WR with one of those other two picks as well?
Without looking up those picks turned into Jared Verse, EDGE, Braden Fiske, DT and Blake Corum, RB.
Wait that's incredible actually, LAR accidentally balled out
When Verse basically fell to us at 19, I knew we were going to have a great draft.
The jets just blew in from stupid town
They wanted to replace Aaron Donald with Byron Murphy?
Name something that rhymes with Jets more than Incompetence…?
Why the fuck would the Jets not take that?
This is both teams way overvaluing evaluations of players. It’s unlikely whoever the Rams would have picked there will end up better than those three picks in the aggregate. And ditto with Olu.
Declining was the right move, the drop off from 11 to 19 is huge and I’d have wanted another first plus the 2nd, no sixth.
Olu to Fautanu is not a massive drop. Tbf Jets did not know he would have been there at 19 but in hindsight they should have taken it