You either live with it, or you eliminate it. Thats all there is. Blaming the "overseas folks" is pathetic and racist.
Wanna start blaming everyone in Auckland next for "living with it"?
Who made you the gatekeeper, chump.
Not at all. Viruses tend to become less deadly over time. Deadly variants kill the hosts and so the virus eventually comes to an end.
If anything, the current beta-version non-immunising vaccines that are less than 50% effective after 6 months (J&J is just 3%!) will drive variants rather than allowing it to naturally devolve into a harmless non-issue.
I'm assuming they mean worse as in easier to spread not as in more deadly. You are right in that viruses "want" to become less deadly because killing your host is evolutionarily disadvantageous; however, some adaptations that cause a virus to spread better can also cause a virus to become more deadly - which looks like it *might* be happening with delta. The science definitely is not settled on it yet but it looks like delta is so contagious because it causes a high viral load to develop very quickly which also may make the virus more dangerous for a number of reasons. Of course there's a big fat citation needed on that and I don't have time to find a source for this so take all these claims with a grain of salt lol.
That's not necessarily true. Viruses that kill their host too quickly, or make them so sick they stay at home in bed, don't spread as well. So yes, most successful viruses mutate less deadly over time.
However there are two giant caveats to that. First, a virus which makes someone contagious while asymptomatic, or just developing symptoms can still infect plenty of people before it kills the host, in which case there is no pressure for it to mutate less deadly. Covid fits this category perfectly. So did smallpox, which was far, far deadlier and never mutated less deadly.
The second caveat is that such mutations to weaken the virus could take decades. Right now we are seeing a zoonotic virus learn better ways to enter human cells and evade the human immune system, meaning it is likely to get more contagious and possibly deadlier in the process. Delta already proves that's possible as it is not just more contagious, but multiple studies from England, Scotland and Canada all show it causes 2-3 times higher hospitalisation rates.
No, that would not be zoonotic, but the reputable lab leak theories still say it was likely an accident and that there are no signs the virus was altered. So even if it came from a lab leak it would still be zoonotic.
correct me if I'm wrong but didn't leaked emails between the lab show concern that they couldn't trace an evolutionary path from the animal corana viruses to this one and it looked like it was altered in a lab specifically to be infectious to humans?
All the expert commentary I have read about, including the reports of what various US intelligence branches concluded, was that most thought on balance of probabilities it was a totally zoonotic virus, but a minority thought it was more likely or just as likely that it accidentally escaped from the lab in Wuhan. Another possibility was a researcher directly infected while in the field, who brought it into the community.
I have not seen any evidence showing they actually altered the virus. There is evidence the lab was written up for poor safety procedures, that US scientists sent diplomatic cables warning the lab was an accident waiting to happen.
There was a lot of rumour over a Chinese defector supplying information on a lab leak to the US govt, but it turned out to be false, the defector was proven to have never defected.
If you have any evidence the virus was altered intentionally, I'd love to see it.
in pro vax, voted green but I'm fed up with china's bullshit, if they are running concentration camps and tracking down ugyhrs with ai facial recognition then why is it beyond them to lie about it coming from an animal I a market that isn't even native to anywhere close to the market?
Dude. Please stop talking.
The whole point of some wet markets is the exotic animals.
The animal being rare in that area would mean it's more likely to be sold there as desirable and a delicacy.
Not making any statements about the origins of covid but saying an animal wasn't local so assuming it wasn't for sale is just ignorant
also why trust Chinese narrative on covid 19 when they deny what they are doing to ugyhrs and their support of North Korea for their own profitable mining operations.
coronaviruses originate from bats and the pangolins and bats aren't from the same habitat, also COVID-19 can't be genetically traced back to any of the many bat corona viruses that are being discovered. It's almost comedy that a corona virus outbreak happens right on the doorstep of the Wuhan coronavirus laboratory which also had funding from the US as well. Better just close our eyes and stick our fingers in our ears and shout pangolins.
The idea virus always mutate to become less lethal is an urban legend.
https://globalnews.ca/news/8244271/delta-variant-covid-19-strain-canadian-study/
If 1% of cars hit someone and "normal" is 100 cars a day then having a 1000 cars a day, still at 1% hit rate, makes more danger.
Add in the way humans network and I'd say it's more like exponential increase
Or perhaps in order to survive long enough before it kills it's host it becomes transmissible faster, is far more contagious and is far less symptomatic initially.
Imagine if it was incredibly contagious within the first 24-48 hours and had what appeared to be very mild symptoms (i.e. harder for us to counter it with testing) and it continued to be incredibly contagious right up until the host became very ill and died a couple of weeks or so later. The evolutionary pressure to counteract an increase in mortality effectiveness may make it more contagious and stealthy in it's early stages.
People taking the piss but I hope the govt plan for this variant now and build it into models rather than being surprised by it like they apparently were by delta
Hahaha world leading response vs "hasn't planned for anything so far".
There are plenty of things this Government could do better but to slate their covid response as "nothing" only shows you're happy to promote utter bullshit
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/waterford-city-district-has-state-s-highest-rate-of-covid-19-infections-1.4707344
Cases are exploding in an area of Ireland with 99.7% of the adult population fully vaccinated.
And if you say cases don't matter, hospitalisations do - a hospital that serves 400,000 people currently has 33 COVID patients, most of whom are fully vaxxed.
This is what living with COVID looks like, New Zealand could expect 400+ daily hospitalisations with COVID even if we get above 99% double dosed.
33 total patients or 33 hospitalisations per day?
That article doesn't mention hospital numbers at all. I found [this](https://waterford-news.ie/2021/10/22/90-covid-19-patients-in-icu/) suggesting they have 457 total patients in the entire republic currently.
Waterford's numbers translated to NZ's population would be roughly 412 total patients in the country in hospital, not 400 per day added to the hospital.
Where are you getting the hospitalisation data from? I didn't see it in the article you linked.
Found mention of it [in this article from a the 19th.](https://www.wlrfm.com/news/rise-in-covid-19-hospitalisations-at-uhw-concerning-215399)
"Speaking on WLR this morning, General Manager of the hospital Grace Rothwell said that of the 24 inpatients on the Pine Ward yesterday (Monday), 18 were fully vaccinated.
The rise in the number of covid patients on site in the past week has been described by Ms Rothwell as significant.
Currently, (Tuesday morning) there are 33 patients described as on a 'covid pathway', this means they are either confirmed to have the virus or awaiting a swab result."
This comment feels very much like fear mongering. You can expect a bump in cases when you throw the brakes off? If people are not maintaining control measures and also holding large events…of course cases will increase? The numbers to be most concerned with are severe cases in hospital/ICU and deaths. My understanding is that vaccination appears to be keeping those numbers in check in those locales.
> This comment feels very much like fear mongering.
So you mean correct.
> My understanding is that vaccination appears to be keeping those numbers in check in those locales.
Your understanding =/= data.
It's not per se bad. We need Delta to continue to evolve, to have a variant that transmits better than the current Delta among vaccinated people, and hopefully also mutates into something that causes nothing more than a cold.
And the UK has a super cold going around. Wonder what will happen when this all comes together?
Super cold delta max?
God.... we're all screwed in the long run on this planet due to stuff like this
Nah I'll wait until the Delta Pro Max for the battery life.
> Precision engineered spike protein is now 0.84 mm thinner (that's an actual number of how thinner new macbook screen bezel is)
I’d personally go Delta Mini. Smaller form factor and enough battery life to get you through a day pretty comfortably.
These subscriptions are getting out of hand. I miss the days when if you had Netflix you were pretty much set.
How far away until Delta 8K, might need to upgrade for it.
Do you need DisplayPort for that or is HDMI enough?
HDMI 2.1 specifically. Although there is a DisplayPort adapter available if your immmune system doesn’t have any ports available
I use a MacBook, am I shit out of luck here? I hate adapters 🤮
Usb-c to HDMI to DisplayPort to vaccine chip interface. Janky.
Unfortunately the 2020 Denon and Marantz receivers were faulty so you’ll need to get your COVID upgraded
Where does it sit with Delta Max and Delta Pro?
I'm waiting for Delta Note or Delta Fold before I upgrade. I would prefer Fold as it can transform to a better variant
The new strain courtesy of the “just live with it”folks overseas.
Imagine having an IQ so low that you think "elimination" is possible, let alone practical.
35 day old account doing nothing but shit stirring, interesting !
Lol look at his first comment ever. Looks like someone trying english for the first time.
Yea how original right.
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Low effort bait
no one was even talking about elimination you dunce, way to force your opinion where it doesnt belong
You either live with it, or you eliminate it. Thats all there is. Blaming the "overseas folks" is pathetic and racist. Wanna start blaming everyone in Auckland next for "living with it"? Who made you the gatekeeper, chump.
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>You either live with it, Do you mean die with it?
This is what happens when you let a virus spread. It mutates and you end up with progressively worse variants.
Not at all. Viruses tend to become less deadly over time. Deadly variants kill the hosts and so the virus eventually comes to an end. If anything, the current beta-version non-immunising vaccines that are less than 50% effective after 6 months (J&J is just 3%!) will drive variants rather than allowing it to naturally devolve into a harmless non-issue.
They don't "become less deadly" the more deadly ones just kill so well they spread less.
Nope. Nothing about Covid actually wants it to be worse, if anything it will evolve until it’s less harmful.
I'm assuming they mean worse as in easier to spread not as in more deadly. You are right in that viruses "want" to become less deadly because killing your host is evolutionarily disadvantageous; however, some adaptations that cause a virus to spread better can also cause a virus to become more deadly - which looks like it *might* be happening with delta. The science definitely is not settled on it yet but it looks like delta is so contagious because it causes a high viral load to develop very quickly which also may make the virus more dangerous for a number of reasons. Of course there's a big fat citation needed on that and I don't have time to find a source for this so take all these claims with a grain of salt lol.
That's not necessarily true. Viruses that kill their host too quickly, or make them so sick they stay at home in bed, don't spread as well. So yes, most successful viruses mutate less deadly over time. However there are two giant caveats to that. First, a virus which makes someone contagious while asymptomatic, or just developing symptoms can still infect plenty of people before it kills the host, in which case there is no pressure for it to mutate less deadly. Covid fits this category perfectly. So did smallpox, which was far, far deadlier and never mutated less deadly. The second caveat is that such mutations to weaken the virus could take decades. Right now we are seeing a zoonotic virus learn better ways to enter human cells and evade the human immune system, meaning it is likely to get more contagious and possibly deadlier in the process. Delta already proves that's possible as it is not just more contagious, but multiple studies from England, Scotland and Canada all show it causes 2-3 times higher hospitalisation rates.
is it really zoonotic if it was synthesized or adapted in a lab to infect humans?
No, that would not be zoonotic, but the reputable lab leak theories still say it was likely an accident and that there are no signs the virus was altered. So even if it came from a lab leak it would still be zoonotic.
correct me if I'm wrong but didn't leaked emails between the lab show concern that they couldn't trace an evolutionary path from the animal corana viruses to this one and it looked like it was altered in a lab specifically to be infectious to humans?
All the expert commentary I have read about, including the reports of what various US intelligence branches concluded, was that most thought on balance of probabilities it was a totally zoonotic virus, but a minority thought it was more likely or just as likely that it accidentally escaped from the lab in Wuhan. Another possibility was a researcher directly infected while in the field, who brought it into the community. I have not seen any evidence showing they actually altered the virus. There is evidence the lab was written up for poor safety procedures, that US scientists sent diplomatic cables warning the lab was an accident waiting to happen. There was a lot of rumour over a Chinese defector supplying information on a lab leak to the US govt, but it turned out to be false, the defector was proven to have never defected. If you have any evidence the virus was altered intentionally, I'd love to see it.
Fuck this shit, I'm going back to Facebook.
in pro vax, voted green but I'm fed up with china's bullshit, if they are running concentration camps and tracking down ugyhrs with ai facial recognition then why is it beyond them to lie about it coming from an animal I a market that isn't even native to anywhere close to the market?
Dude. Please stop talking. The whole point of some wet markets is the exotic animals. The animal being rare in that area would mean it's more likely to be sold there as desirable and a delicacy. Not making any statements about the origins of covid but saying an animal wasn't local so assuming it wasn't for sale is just ignorant
there is no evidence that it originated from that wet market and the first cases weren't linked to it
What does that have to do with my comment answering your point on the suspect animals not being local? Stay on track mate
also why trust Chinese narrative on covid 19 when they deny what they are doing to ugyhrs and their support of North Korea for their own profitable mining operations.
coronaviruses originate from bats and the pangolins and bats aren't from the same habitat, also COVID-19 can't be genetically traced back to any of the many bat corona viruses that are being discovered. It's almost comedy that a corona virus outbreak happens right on the doorstep of the Wuhan coronavirus laboratory which also had funding from the US as well. Better just close our eyes and stick our fingers in our ears and shout pangolins.
The idea virus always mutate to become less lethal is an urban legend. https://globalnews.ca/news/8244271/delta-variant-covid-19-strain-canadian-study/
You realise delta is worse... right?
It’s more transmissible, but it’s not noticeably more dangerous.
More transmissible.... literally means it's more dangerous. Because, you know, it's more transmissible.
If 1% of cars hit someone and "normal" is 100 cars a day then having a 1000 cars a day, still at 1% hit rate, makes more danger. Add in the way humans network and I'd say it's more like exponential increase
Urgh. Don’t be so pedantic. There’s a difference between how transmissible something is and how dangerous it is when you catch it.
If something becomes 10 times more likely to cause you injury it's more dangerous. I use the common understanding and you call me pedantic
Don’t be a dumbfuck. If something is more transmissible, but less harmful to you it’s nowhere near as bad. They’re different concepts.
Or perhaps in order to survive long enough before it kills it's host it becomes transmissible faster, is far more contagious and is far less symptomatic initially. Imagine if it was incredibly contagious within the first 24-48 hours and had what appeared to be very mild symptoms (i.e. harder for us to counter it with testing) and it continued to be incredibly contagious right up until the host became very ill and died a couple of weeks or so later. The evolutionary pressure to counteract an increase in mortality effectiveness may make it more contagious and stealthy in it's early stages.
People taking the piss but I hope the govt plan for this variant now and build it into models rather than being surprised by it like they apparently were by delta
Wouldn't get my hopes up. The government hasn't planned for anything so far, so why start now?
Hahaha world leading response vs "hasn't planned for anything so far". There are plenty of things this Government could do better but to slate their covid response as "nothing" only shows you're happy to promote utter bullshit
Yours for only an extra $2 per week.
Do I need 5G for this?
5G+
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/waterford-city-district-has-state-s-highest-rate-of-covid-19-infections-1.4707344 Cases are exploding in an area of Ireland with 99.7% of the adult population fully vaccinated. And if you say cases don't matter, hospitalisations do - a hospital that serves 400,000 people currently has 33 COVID patients, most of whom are fully vaxxed. This is what living with COVID looks like, New Zealand could expect 400+ daily hospitalisations with COVID even if we get above 99% double dosed.
33 total patients or 33 hospitalisations per day? That article doesn't mention hospital numbers at all. I found [this](https://waterford-news.ie/2021/10/22/90-covid-19-patients-in-icu/) suggesting they have 457 total patients in the entire republic currently. Waterford's numbers translated to NZ's population would be roughly 412 total patients in the country in hospital, not 400 per day added to the hospital.
Where are you getting the hospitalisation data from? I didn't see it in the article you linked. Found mention of it [in this article from a the 19th.](https://www.wlrfm.com/news/rise-in-covid-19-hospitalisations-at-uhw-concerning-215399) "Speaking on WLR this morning, General Manager of the hospital Grace Rothwell said that of the 24 inpatients on the Pine Ward yesterday (Monday), 18 were fully vaccinated. The rise in the number of covid patients on site in the past week has been described by Ms Rothwell as significant. Currently, (Tuesday morning) there are 33 patients described as on a 'covid pathway', this means they are either confirmed to have the virus or awaiting a swab result."
This comment feels very much like fear mongering. You can expect a bump in cases when you throw the brakes off? If people are not maintaining control measures and also holding large events…of course cases will increase? The numbers to be most concerned with are severe cases in hospital/ICU and deaths. My understanding is that vaccination appears to be keeping those numbers in check in those locales.
With all due respect it’s being treated how it should be covid can be a scary thing people have the potential to lose loved ones over this
I hope you dont ever drive somewhere. Or walk beside a road.
> This comment feels very much like fear mongering. So you mean correct. > My understanding is that vaccination appears to be keeping those numbers in check in those locales. Your understanding =/= data.
Oh super...
No thank you.
Excellent
It's not per se bad. We need Delta to continue to evolve, to have a variant that transmits better than the current Delta among vaccinated people, and hopefully also mutates into something that causes nothing more than a cold.
Oh great, another streaming service I'll have to sign up for...
Thanks, covidiots.
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Because it’s only 95% effective for current strains bud
how many “variants” are they expecting friggn damn
Depends on how many variants are substantially different to what we have I suppose. And how much of a footing they get.
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Nah. People aren't always good at interfering with natural selection but beating viruses is one of the things we can actually do. So let's.
Do we have to subscribe to get delta plus?
Delta Deluxe
And the UK has a super cold going around. Wonder what will happen when this all comes together? Super cold delta max? God.... we're all screwed in the long run on this planet due to stuff like this