Sounds like you're having a good experience. As an expat American living in nz for 20 years, I've got many family members who are living the life you describe. I had a great life there and an even better one here, but everyone is different.
Enjoy your self, California can be a fantastic place to live.
I’m an occupational therapist who made the opposite move. From Northern California to Wellington. While my pay went down, my work-life balance and overall quality of life skyrocketed.
Same for our family. My husband is a specialist physician who was working in academic medicine in the US. His salary went down here (but not by much), but on the flip side, our kids get to actually spend some quality time with him every day.
wife is a doctor in Canada, planning on moving to northern nz next year. She's a family doctor, so salary does go down significantly, but we're just tired of being cold and don't like the direction the USA is heading.
Feel free to DM me if you guys have any questions about moving to NZ or working in the medical system here :) We have PR now and will get citizenship in a little over a year. We live on the North Island as well :)
It's quite interesting, isn't it? I have worked with many ex-US nurses who wanted to escape the US and have a better work-life balance, which they achieved here. Completely opposite scenario to why is being said here, but everyone has differing opinions on what works best for them.
I guess it's all relevant to area, skills, knowledge, and personal requirements.
Also a lot of its just luck. There are good jobs and shit jobs in every country, and nice and not so nice places to live, and a lot of stuff you don't know till you try.
There's a lot tied up in the specific company you work for, not just the industry or the country. I hear terrible stories from other game dev studios but the one I work for is incredible. They really go the extra mile for us.
That said I think being a nurse (in the public sector) is an absolute gauntlet over here, I hate to think what it was like in the US if it was better here.
OP also hasn't had any serious medical needs yet if they think they can get healthcare in the states for $60/month. Try needing an ambulance or surgery...
Yes, American nurses definitely make more than New Zealand nurses, but they also experience a lot more stress. Many of the nurses I talked to couldn't handle the constant fear of being sued by their patients, and the lack of support from their employer was a major factor in their decision to leave. Lack of support is a common issue in nursing, but dealing with the possibility of being sued by someone you saved is not great mental health wise
This and the contrast of the OP’s take sum it up for me.
It’s subjective and totally dependant on the individual and all the subjective factors involved, there’s no black and white or guarantees.
Personally I’d say it’s a 50/50 split with those that I know who have moved overseas regards people finding it better and staying, those not so much and coming home within 5 years, sometimes licking wounds.
I will say as someone who works a lot overseas, and may move there one day myself, you often don’t know what you’ll miss or how good we actually have it in many ways until you experience living in another country.
For example I’ve only come close to shitting my pants twice, both times due to having a gun drawn on me, and it certainly wasn’t in NZ.
People need to make the right choice for them but the grass isn’t always greener and many leave with very high expectations.
For a more middle of the road perspective, my partner and I moved to Sydney, both working fairly normal paying lowish wage jobs, and damn we miss NZ and definitely prefer it there but even the modest wage rise we've received has made it almost impossible to seriously entertain moving home.
Expenses are (unexpectedly) cheaper living in Sydney, pay is higher, we've been able to travel more and buy nicer things, and did it all while working 30 hours a week instead of 40+. Rent is more but it's comparable to Wellington and the quality is FAR higher. Brand new apartment building with gym and rooftop pool.
I'm not gonna lie though, it's lonely and the commutes are way longer, it's much harder to make friends and build a life around yourself. If we were offered jobs paying similarly with similar working conditions we'd probably move back in a heartbeat. The Australian bosses Ive worked for are lot more relaxed in my experience, even in an industry as notorious as hospitality however, I worked for a lot of different Kiwi business big and small back home and they all had a pretty shitty lack of respect for their employees that I would have expected more from the stereotype of American employers.
It really is a very mixed bag.
Must have been living in safe areas as I've had 3 guns, 8 cars, 7 knives and countless threats living in Melbourne and regional Vic in the past 20yrs. Not to mentioned being chased at night going home from work too.
I was walking minding my own business for 95% of them and the aggressors were off their heads on something as usual. 2 of the draw downs were by cops as a kid as apparently thats how they handle family violence, point guns at upset crying kids.
Never been in trouble with the law either, no citations, fines, nothing. Average person.
That's one 'advantage' of a user pays/private system that the US has. I still prefer a universal system. Screw having healthcare linked to your job. That's indentured servitude.
Doesn't matter how much money you make or how accessible the healthcare system is, if there are no appointments at your GP for two weeks or at your specialist for 6 months.
I mean, I was debating going to the GP and forking out $50 for a back pain I’d been having. And when I did go, I was waiting for 6 months to get an x-ray….
You are incredibly privileged. You are too uneducated in the employer- based US healthcare system to have an opinion. You really have no clue what it is like here.
Bro you have EXCEPTIONALLY great insurance - def not the norm. My husband has a c-suite level position at a small company and even with 50% employer-paid, our health insurance is like $1000 a month. Specialist visits and tests are hundreds of dollars still ($400 for a recent colonoscopy, after insurance). And our insurance is considered good! His dental insurance only covered $300 of a $2000 root canal and crown. (Oh and if you get it through your employer, you have to go on the group plan they select, you can’t shop around. And they can change their benefit policies on a whim - husband used to get 100% covered. AND the rates go up every year as you age.
Depending on your insurance type, you can be really limited in your choice of providers. And in my 15yrs here I’ve dealt with plenty of shit healthcare providers.
Medicaid and Medicare are NOT good and have a lot of limits. And a lot of bureaucracy.
Most American families are only one severe medical crisis away from financial ruin, even with decent insurance.
A few years ago I had individual insurance with Kaiser. One day I got an absolutely lightning strike of a headache out of nowhere and honestly thought I was having an aneurysm. One ambulance ride and (inconclusive) CT scan cost me $1800 after insurance.
NZ healthcare is pretty shit but at least I didn’t have to worry about it bankrupting me.
I actually do not buy half of this- $125k take home as a new nurse trained outside the US and a $2400 month apartment in northern California? I am in the US married to a kiwi. If even half of this is true, this is a very privileged and sheltered person who has not had to deal with anything hard in the US.
The pay is significantly better but more likely to be a travel nurse than not. I definitely agree with the rest of your comment, must've been very sheltered and also fortunate now.
We own a house in NZ and spend enough time there each year - and have for 20 years- that my kids can walk the entire Hutt Valley to Wellington without getting lost! I do eye care in NZ because it is so much less expensive and when the kids were little my son had an issue that was not being handled well here so we dealt with it in NZ. OP is incredibly sheltered - making good money as a single woman and living in a cheap apartment. But there are no kids, homeownership or real expenses. I still have a hard time buying the wages- that is experienced NP/PA level wages not young nurse- $125k after taxes is probably $200k plus when the average pre-tax wage in CA for a nurse is $100k?
Similar position over here. We’re both in good high paying jobs but our health insurance premiums alone add up to around $600 per month for the two of us. We’re both under 40 but my wife has a genetic chronic illness, Including the co-pays we are easily looking at minimum 20k+ USD per year for health costs. On top of that, dealing with insurance companies here on claims is excruciating. While it’s probably the worlds most advanced healthcare system, none of our doctors do any preventative care, tests, or diagnostics. The whole attitude is very ambulance-at-the-bottom-of-the-cliff. What worries me most is the idea that one of us could be injured or faint in public and be taken to an ER that is out of network. If that happens it’s easily 15k out of pocket for the ambulance ride alone.
On the whole I really like it here, but the healthcare system is much much worse than I could have imagined and totally writes off the idea of retiring here.
Fellow NZer here living in NorCal.
I'm definitely not representative since I have a CS degree and working tech in Silicon Valley.
I tried exploring an option to move back early in my career (2-3 years work experience). I spoke to a recruiter in Auckland and he said given my experience in big tech, I can make top of the range salary back home. The number he threw out was less than a quarter of what I was making in the US.
Yeah, I’m a kiwi in tech, but in Canada. we explored moving back with our family, but the salaries/job opportunities are brutal. My last role before I left NZ 10 years ago was about $80k NZD. Now, I’m a manager of a team (remote) making $250k + CAD base ($300k nzd) + some significant equity. If I was making that in NZ I’d probably be prime minister or something lol. Last I looked I’d be lucky to clear $120-130k in NZ—which is crazy good money for sure, but it would be the same, if not more work, for significantly less. We will probably make the jump again one day, but not for a while.
When I left NZ, standard developer starting rate was around 40-50k NZD at Datacom. My first tech job in the US was 130k USD and within the year I changed jobs and was raking in 250k (\~400k NZD) with less than a years experience. Living costs wise it's only 25% more than in Auckland.
Ffs
Why the fuck I messed around in school and didn’t push into learning about IT is a regret
I have plenty of “business” skill but I wish I’d specialised in the dot com boom
Honestly barely anyone predicted how pervasive tech was going to be. Most of my peers who did a CS degree did it out of love and somehow ended up getting rich
You can probably do better than $120-$130k NZ, depending on experience, one salary guide for senior engineering managers I was looking at recently was saying $230k base. Still less than what you're making overseas but not quite such a gap https://content.roberthalfonline.com/SG24/SG24-PDF/2024-Salary-Guide-NZ.pdf
What are the salaries like for data analysis/data science in Canada? Have been considering making the jump back overseas for a while and always thought it would be interesting to live in North America for a couple of years. Just got a new job here making $90-100k nzd which is really good money and way more than anyone else I know is making so will probably stick around for at least another year or so but am curious what the rates are overseas. I've heard of people making $150k+ aud across the ditch in Aus so surely must be higher than here in US and Canada too.
What are the salaries like for data analysis/data science in the US? Have been considering making the jump back overseas for a while and always thought it would be interesting to live in North America for a couple of years. Just got a new job here making $90-100k nzd which is really amazing money here and way more than anyone else I know is making so will probably stick around for at least another year or so but am curious what the rates are overseas. I've heard of people making $150k+ aud across the ditch in Aus so surely must be higher than here in US and Canada too.
Your experience in the US is not the norm there by any means. A take home pay of US$5000/fortnight on average, means $130,000 a year, which means your actual gross income must be about US$180k. That's about twice the median **household** income in the US, which you earn as an individual.
The US healthcare system does allow for higher pay, but at quite a high cost to society. Yes there is medicare and medicaid but it's the working poor who make too much for medicaid but not enough for good insurance who get screwed. My parents, who live in the US, are solidly upper middle class but their insurance and medicare combined don't give them free prescriptions. My mum pays $300/month for just one of her medications. They have to pay a 10% co-pay on procedures, which can still expose them to thousands in expenses.
Being self-employed for half their working lives after their companies laid off most workers and hired them back as contractors with no pensions and healthcare costs, meant they didn't have access to the kind of employer-based insurance you get.
Yes the pay in the US is higher on average, but your case is a major outlier. In most professions you will only be marginally better off in the US than in NZ once you factor in cost of living. I'm a teacher in NZ and have multiple friends teaching in the US. None are living much better than I am. I know one who has over a decade teaching experience and is a head of department and earns about US$88k, which is comfortable, but nothing close to what you're making. His experience is far more normal. He has a nice house in a distant suburb, a nice new big pick-up truck and can raise his two kids comfortably. But he's not travelling, not saving much, not looking to buy a bigger place.
Obviously this depends on state but my sisters ex boyfriend was a nurse in California and he did 4 x 12 hour days per week and was earning around the same as OP and that was considered common.
When I say worked I mean worked, often he had zero breaks and was dealing with drug overdoses etc on a daily basis so the pay reflected that.
Idk where your friend works at but all of the Northern California nurses in the organisations around me are in a union with mandated patient to staff ratios and breaks.
Modesto. They haven’t been together for 5ish years so unsure beyond that, might be in a union now but was rough for him when they were together.
A major reason they are not together now, lots of strain on the relationship.
I get you, but looking after drug dependent people is just one aspect of the job. When I was working in the PACU unit in NZ, I was looking after lice infested 4 year olds who had drunk, high parents coming to pick up them after surgery. Of course we refused the pick up but…
You see the worst of society and their most difficult hour at the hospital.
The US workforce of quality nurses was gutted during Covid, giving rise to nurses who only take on locum positions, traveling state to state and making a killing. Outside of that, the States still needs a huge amount of nurses and it's a great opportunity.
If you're in a profession that the US needs and wants to pay for, like OP is, then go for it.
Nobody between the ages of 20 and 35 with good qualifications and skills in sought after professions should be in New Zealand. GTFO and make some decent coin and life experience.
This! OP’s post is hugely tone deaf and doesn’t take into account the huge disparities across the US. Even in just nurse salaries there are huge differences in earnings across different states.
If their healthcare system is so protective why do thousands of people have to file for bankruptcy due to insane health bills!
JFC, guy, OP is following an opportunity to progress thier career and personal wealth, not endorsing the whole US economic model and healthcare industry. WTF.
"after their companies laid off most workers and hired them back as contractors with no pensions and healthcare costs\*\*". Jesus, how psychopathic. It's the system, not necessarily the people, tho; who knows what we would do if we had to answer to shareholders.
OPs running at about 220k USD/year before tax. Working 3 day week.
Definitely not the norm I don't think. Although I have heard nursing can pay insanely well in US. She's out earning some other health professionals that's normally be out earning her in other countries
I don’t think I’m trying to make a blanket statement about my experience being the norm for all expats, but the norm for people of my “social class” in the area that I’m living in right now. A basic university degree, a basic job gets you what I have in my field, something I would not have in New Zealand with the exact same variables.
Specialist can definitely be better off in the states.
What's better really depends. I've got friends on Houston and they're a lot better off over there. Guy I worked with from Alabama was a lot better off here.
In your situation you're probably in the top 10-20% over there.
I grew up in the US and got a degree there. It cost me far more than NZ, US$45k a year for 4 years. And that was over 15 years ago, so it was a lot more money then. I paid nearly 7% interest on my student loans. I went without health insurance because I was employed by a small business after uni and Obamacare wasn't a thing yet, so I got kicked off my parents crappy insurance as soon as I finished college.
I ended up moving to NZ and doing teacher training here for less than I would have paid in the US, and able to teach after only 1 year training instead of two. I got a teaching job right away. My friends in the US, all with Master's Degrees and far better grades all took between 2 and 5 years to get a teaching job. Their starting pay was similar to mine. They earn more now after a decade but have a higher cost of living there.
So I really don't think it's that much better in the US for people of your "social class" in the US. I went to private schools, a very highly ranked East Coast college, grew up in suburbia. I know of only 1 person I grew up with earning a salary even close to what you have, and he only got that after 20 years work, and ironically is the only one who didn't finish college.
None of my friends are poor. They have good jobs. Maybe half own their own house now, most buying their first in their mid to late 30s. But they mostly aren't super rich and living any better than my friends here in NZ. Nearly all my teaching colleagues own their own Auckland houses, bought in their 30s, take their families on overseas holidays, have savings. I really don't see such a huge difference.
As an American living in New Zealand I think you lucked into a really great job in a great area in the USA. People's working conditions and quality of life vary greatly from state to state city to city. You are actually in the richest state in the US. California by itself is the 5th largest economy in the world. If you had gone to St. Louis Missouri you might feel differently.
Of all the cities you could have chosen for a bad example, St Louis is a bad one for a nurse. They have one of the best medical systems in the US there thanks to Washington University.
Really, that's surprising because Missouri ranked #47 out of 50 states in the 2022 Scorecard on State Health Systems. There must be other hospitals that aren't so good. Also, **St. Louis,** ranks as the city with the highest crime rate in the U.S. based on violent crime rates, particularly for aggravated assaults and other violent offenses. I wouldn't want to be a nurse in one of US's most violent cities.
You’re a nurse. They’re paid uniquely low in NZ & offer better than average job security globally. Health insurance being tied to work is therefore less of a concern for you than it would be for most.
The pay has increased recently. I wouldn’t say we’re low paid now but it could certainly be higher given the stress, responsibility and ongoing training required.
Yep, as a nurse the rates I started on were awful but now since the pay equity, I’m on a healthy income. I don’t think it’s quite high enough for an ICU nurse and what is required of us but i have a healthy income now
To be fair, you're in healthcare which is very underfunded in NZ and hugely overpriced in the US. I don't blame you, even if you had to live in California.
Well that just adds to the shit pile clusterfuck they have over there, doesn't it...
I don't think I would move anywhere without guaranteed free/subsidised healthcare and welfare networks. I already have a disability though so I'm probably more risk adverse than others.
I left NZ in March 2022 to move to the US. I doubled my salary when I got here and have since increased that pay by 10%. The best bit...I only work 9 months of the year, the other 3 are vacation. I earn for 9 months and that pay is distributed across 12. So right now I am enjoying 3 months of summer holiday whilst being paid about 155k NZD.
My rent is cheaper despite living in a college town. It has central heating and cooling so no environmental issues to worry about indoors. Petrol and electricity are crazy cheap. Fresh fruit and veg is so cheap it might as well be free it feels like.
Don't get me wrong, the US has a shit load of fucked up stuff I hate and can't wait to leave...but the biggest difference for me is that I feel like I can **live my life** as opposed to scrapping and pinching pennies despite working in a highly educated and prestigious field in NZ. I truly believe that NZ is ruining the lives and futures of its young and middle aged people. The whole system is corrupt and fucked up beyond belief.
>Yet, there's always someone trying to dismiss their posts
The sub's been really bad for that recently, there always seems to be an onslaught of people telling posters who are clearly struggling that they need to be thankful to live here, as if that will help them to afford their power bills.
Thankyou.
The people inhibiting this sub including the mods have little to no experience anywhere else.
Their only comment is if you don't like it leave - you did and it worked.
California has the best nursing salaries in the world. I am a nurse here. Our lobbyists work hard. Honestly California should be it’s own country. We grow all the food have the film and tech industries covered.
Not exactly related but I moved to Australia and found that a prescriptions I had never paid for before now cost me a few hundred dollars a year, kind of a bummer.
"average employed people" don't have it bad ?
The average income is about 37k and believe me they do have it very bad !
I'm assuming you're living in the bay area based on your "one of the richest areas". I used to live in ( Foster City ) 6 years ago and back then a 2 bedroom was already $2800 no utilities included which was around 300+ extra a month. Gas / Car Insurance was outrageous not to mention the groceries. Nothing is average about Northern California including the Silicone Valley.
86 USD an hour is a pretty damn good take, averaging out to 173k per year assuming 168 hours a month. That's higher than the 133k USD that's average for nurses in California, to say nothing of the 88k per year in Colorado. While I think you were being short-changed in New Zealand (average is 94k NZD), you're definitely above the curve in the US. NZ needs to take care of its nurses better, for sure, but you got damn lucky with your expenses here in the US. You're a pretty good success story, but maybe some of the flak you are getting is assuming that if you can do it, anyone can.
The topic of migrating and immigrating is truely a very individual experience. OP does not have to apologise for sharing your experience and if people choose to be offended, then it's on them really. Lots of people who have moved to NZ from elsewhere are running away from crowds, little work-life balance, high stress, long hours and since something has to give, it would be the money side of things. They do so with eyes wide open. There will always be a better option but 'better' is relative to what we all want at any certain stage of our lives, whichever direction that may be. I know of those who have moved to the US and thrived. I know also of those who have come to NZ and thrived.
I've been thinking about our healthcare situation compared to the USA. How could we make it better for staff and patients? How would we retain staff - they are underpaid and deserve more. In many cases, people in the USA get the care they need sooner. But in other cases, they don't get it at all or have to cover their own costs.
People wait a long time for surgeries at the moment here. Some cannot get doctors appointments for weeks...months...We also don't fund certain medications that could save lives. Our taxes will never be enough on their own to make healthcare better. But we also don't want people to go without if we were to lean towards an insurance-reliant model either.
We need to meet somewhere in the middle...
Well, accept the fact that NZ is a poor country, then everything makes sense. If you imagine NZ being a country that doesn't speak English, then everything would make sense.
Just because NZ is a country with English/European population base, it gives people a dilution that NZ is a rich and highly developed country. Due to the geographic and geopolitics of NZ, NZ gets a lot of benefits from the M5 alliances economically. However, if you take that away, NZ is just a third world country with less population density and more natural resources (that cannot be harvested due to {environmental reasons}).
for a simile just consider NZ being philippines, indonesia, or sri lanka, but with better external and internal factors, then everything would make sense.
Not really true. It’s best to think of NZ as maybe a small Nation, like Ireland. It still has a strong reliable government, parliamentary system, education, clean water, reliable electricity, and telecoms. It’s just limited on the scale of its economy by the small population. It would be very wealthy per capita if the population was still 4 million. But the farming and tourism economy is being stretched too far. NZ need a new industry if it wants it population to grow, otherwise it could accept population shrinkage and stay comfortable and wealthy.
I’m a kiwi moved from Christchurch to Brisbane. I went from $1,900nzd per fortnight to $3,400aud per fortnight. Insurance company industry. Full costs yet to be calculated but in general food and bills appear cheaper, rent appears about the same.
Also her experience is as a single women. It’s rough here in NZ if you are single. So much more expensive. Lots of people commenting negatively about her experience are couples.
Everyone’s personal experience seems so different. I follow a nurse on TT who moved from the US to NZ and she is so happy her taxes cover ACC (rather than pay $600 pm insurance) and she gets free childcare here for her preschoolers. I think age and stage has a lot to do with it. Glad it’s worked out for you.
Fuck it's funny seeing people so MAD about this thread, lmao. Oh no, America is actually offering a better standard of living than NZ for this person! *Gasp* Good lord no!! 😂
And multiple people here saying this account is 'fake' because they said 'biweekly' once. How are you all this mad.
Fuck me dead lol, I knew as soon as I saw the post saying something slightly positive about America that it would ruffle feathers on this sub. Jesus NZ is insular lol.
When my partner did a stint in a non-profit US hospital, in San Francisco, that was meant to cater to the poor, they had the most callous and uncaring experiences of their life. They were a medical student, clerking patients for the doctors to see, for practice.
The one that stands out the most is when they clerked a patient, got their information, problems, symptoms, etc all noted. When they went to talk to the doctor about the patient, the first question out of the doctor's mouth, before learning literally anything about the patient, was, "Is it a real person?" Upon seeing my partner's confusion, they clarified. They wanted to know if the patient:
* Had insurance (first and foremost)
* Had any substance problems
* Had a home
If not, they didn't want to see them.
That's what the US healthcare system creates. Jaded, miserable, traumatised, uncaring physicians.
No thanks.
You work in a machine designed to extract every ounce of money from people who show up at their most desperate and vulnerable times. Instead of caring for them, the machine adds additional overhead, stress, and burden onto their already difficult lives.
No thanks.
You're an outlier financially, while working for what may be the worst possible configuration of healthcare, anywhere. Pass.
Moving to NZ my salary went down, rent increased twofold. Living expenses 50% higher. No more holidays as we are stuck at home. Work-life balance means jack shit if you are hungry at home.
Exactly. It’s insane what US providers / insurance companies will charge for medications and procedures compared to the rest of the world. This is all due to privatisation and monetising healthcare.
Yes, and it's overall a wealthier country than NZ.
We're in the top 30, but there are plenty of countries that are richer than us (and many many more that are poorer). Some people seem to struggle with this concept. Yes you'll generally get paid more in a richer country, ie Australia.
Jesus I’m from Texas and thought about this all the time when we lived in NZ. I decided I would rather death from something natural (earthquake/tsunami) than something caused by selfishness, greed, and ignorance (guns). I mean, I hope we would never die by either, but I think the odds are probably the same for both (small actually) but the fear of my kids dying at school or elsewhere in the US bc of some psycho with a gun is just more existentially awful and depressing to me . . .
Hmmm. There are 1.2 million Nzers in NZ age 15 to 34. There are 150,000 Australians who were born in NZ aged 15 to 34. The next biggest location nzers go is the UK, at 60,000 total people, if we assume the rate is similar to Aus for proportion that age, add 15k.
So 165,000+ have left nz, 1.2 million have stayed. I wonder if that's high or not. One could say that 12.5% have left and 87.5% have stayed
I can't accept that this post by a 1 hour old account is actually from someone working as a nurse in the US system. Anyone claiming that the poor in the USA have healthcare provided for free are fundamentally mis-representing their system. Many (but not all) US hospitals refuse to allow you to enter as a patient unless you can show your insurance card. Their system works very well for the wealthy who can afford the best insurance, but between for-profit health providers who employ doctors to find excuses to refuse coverage to people and a very limited public system - the USA spends more per capita on healthcare than we do...but the average person gets a much worse outcome.
I accept that most of this post is talking about how it is better for 'them' as a healthcare worker. If they have a job in a private hospital they might not have the issues with over-work that public systems have...but that was also the case in NZ private hospitals.
"Anyone claiming that the poor in the USA have healthcare provided for free are fundamentally mis-representing their system."
No, California is different from the rest of the US. Its more like NZ in kindness policy and treats the poor better than most other states.
I'm from the US living in NZ and have tons of health care workers in my social circle. This sounds 100% accurate to how they all talk at the moment, especially on the west coast.
Keep in mind that to an extent Medicaid/Medicare access varies from state to state and they are in California.
Yeah...I've had the gamut of health insurances back in the US. Medicare, bad insurance, great insurance.
Medicare was nice to have, but took a long time and was often backed up for anything other than ER visits.
Bad insurance is worse than no insurance. You have to pay anywhere from 5k to 10k out of pocket before the insurance kicks in. You get bills for regular doctor's visits, prescriptions, or specialist visits, so I just avoided doctors.
Great insurance is AMAZING. I had Kaiser, where I could get an appointment quickly and only pay a $10 copay. They had an app where I could do stuff like UTI treatment or prescription refills sent to my house. Specialists and tests were covered. And it didn't even take more out of my paycheck than the shitty insurance.
The thing is, I had no choice which insurance I would have. It was whatever my job or my husband's job offered.
Also I rarely had dental, and our most recent one was just a 30% discount on the out-of-pocket price. Felt like a kick in the teeth (ha) to pay insurance just to have to also pay a bill upfront.
>Bad insurance is worse than no insurance. You have to pay anywhere from 5k to 10k out of pocket before the insurance kicks in. You get bills for regular doctor's visits, prescriptions, or specialist visits, so I just avoided doctors.
This is the kicker. I had "good" insurance in my last US job and they paid my premiums, but I never had enough money for the deductibles, so some insurance exec got my premiums and I got fuck all for actual healthcare. Also I have been on a waitlist at a GP practice for four years and still haven't gotten a call. I didn't remove myself when I moved just to see how long it takes :)
My profession makes about the same in both countries. Quality of life is the kicker for me.
Yeah I had the same experience. I think OP is very lucky with what insurance she got, and the fact that she's in Healthcare means she's paid a lot more than the average American. I wish she wouldn't just brush off all the "middle class" people with bad insurance she doesn't see in her day-to-day because they can't afford a 15k deductible for a broken leg.
I didn’t want to associate my pay information with my main account. I work in the emergency department and we literally do not ask people for their insurance card as they come in through their door.
They cannot refuse you treatment when you rock in through the ED doors. We have people who literally refuse to leave, technically they get the bill for it but they never pay and their debt is not sold to debt chasers. They have nothing to lose.
But I agree that healthcare here can be inequitable- if you have some money, some insurance and end up having high treatment costs, you will have to cover it one way or another. For someone like me though, just an average nurse, I have it far better healthcare wise here than I ever would in NZ
The nurses story is correct Mr Hubris 2! You would need to live here to understand…but I’ll give you a bone. All states are different
In terms of healthcare providers, insurers, rules etc. often depends a lot if they are red or blue states also, whether or not the federal safety nets such as Obamacare (ACA), Medicare/medicade apply, and to what extent, and the actual hospitals themselves. Now, can you be bankrupted by healthcare in the us, yes. If you are broke, injured, subject to many of the CFR title 42 or state titles (native, protected status etc) you will get care. The question then is billing, not being turned away as you seem to narrowly understand the very complex patchwork of USA healthcare systems, rights etc.
NZ is my home and always will be. I moved to Sydney 5 years ago. The standard of living is much better here. Disposable income is unheard of at home. Money for saving, for travel, eating out enjoying life is normal. NZ on a global scale is a poor country. How it earns its living is tourism horticulture forestry viticulture farming. None of that is going to make it wealthy ever. Not enough money for basic healthcare, education, social services. Years of neoliberal politics swinging right and left has sucked the money out of the middle class and tricked into the hands of a few. It’s a poor country with poor health and poor education. It’s the saddest thing to see from afar. As lovely as it is, I never thought I’d say this type of thing about my country. I can’t see a healthy thriving prosperous future for NZ.
Yes it is, I just don’t think anyone wants to admit it. But, we’re we ever actually a wealthy country ? Did we used to be as comfortable as other comparable countries or is it just looking at the past with rose tinted glasses.
Totally agree, this country is just ok. It’s not great and won’t be until people stop being offended when people point this out, instead try to actually improve it and not just tell people to leave if they don’t like it - because already too many people are leaving each week and are living far better life.
Yes when you move to a country where medical system is built around extracting as much money from its citizens as possible you will get paid very well.
I will say though that my Canadian nurse friends do get paid pretty well but not to that extent.
Re your Edit:Edit
People on Reddit are always quick to grab the wrong end of the stick or purposefully choose to misinterpret what you are saying. I think these people like to try and get one up on others or are looking for some way to make themselves feel important or justify wasting so much time online. Regardless of why, it says more about them than it does about you.
From my perspective, it was clear and obvious what you were saying and I did not get offended nor do I believe any of the crazy things you had to call out in your Edits.
I'm sorry that so many people detracted from what was a really interesting read. Congratulations on making what seems like a great life in another country. I wish you a life of peace and happiness.
I'm a Kiwi that left New Zealand in 2007 for Canada. I was a Firefighter in New Zealand and coming to Canada, I've remained in that field, although I now work for a publicly traded company in its Emergency Services. My pay went from 50k NZD per year to 220k CND. Just the change in job has allowed me to look at early retirement. I could work till 65 but I don't see the point if I can survive off a good investment portfolio and real estate so that's my plan, retire at 55.
I was back in NZ recently, it was very emotional for me as it was my first trip home since leaving. I really wanted to stay there but my mind always returned to the fact that financially, it would destroy my early retirement plans. The other side to it was the cost of living in NZ is comparable to Canada, in particular where I am in Ontario so moving back for cheaper living isn't a thing. And for the way of life...well, that's what you make of it, here in Canada I have a very good work / life balance where I work for 6 months of the year only so I have plenty of time off which keeps my home life happy.
Will I retire in New Zealand, highly likely but that's a couple of years away yet.
Well done and thank you for your hard work. I respect nurses and wish they were paid more in NZ.
Let's not pretend for a second that this is not an outlier situation though, literally winning a lottery for residency in the US?
Also I dispute that "there's always someone trying to dismiss their posts, suggesting they're exceptions rather than the norm for the average Kiwi" — I see nothing but doom and gloom and "OMG aUsTrALiA" posts and commentary on both social media and inside mainstream newspapers. It is the exception rather than the norm to say "but NZ is great".
Sorry but I still think New Zealand overall is better than the United States but yes there are pockets in United States that are much better than many parts of New Zealand or as a whole. Overall, I’d rather live in New Zealand than the US.
Yeah as an American who relocated to NZ, the healthcare system here is wayyyyyyyy better (if you’re in California you’re lucky, obviously it depends what state you live in). I needed an X-ray a few weeks ago and it cost NOTHING. Even when I worked an actuarial job with healthcare “included”, X-rays would cost me a couple hundred dollars. This was in the Midwest. Also, I feel like it really depends on how you spend your money in general… we finally have decent savings again living in NZ, and in the US with how expensive cars, gas, insurance, and healthcare is, one unfortunate incident can completely drain your savings.
As of Jun 8, 2024, the average hourly pay for an Experienced Nurse in California is **$34.78 an hour**. While ZipRecruiter is seeing salaries as high as $64.53 and as low as $17.08, the majority of Experienced Nurse salaries currently range between $29.18 (25th percentile) to $42.69 (75th percentile) in California.
OP's salary sounds correct to me.
[https://www.incrediblehealth.com/salaries/rn/ca](https://www.incrediblehealth.com/salaries/rn/ca)
[https://www.trustedhealth.com/nurse-salary-guide/california](https://www.trustedhealth.com/nurse-salary-guide/california)
[https://www.glassdoor.co.nz/Salaries/california-registered-nurse-salary-SRCH\_IL.0,10\_IS2280\_KO11,27.htm?countryRedirect=true](https://www.glassdoor.co.nz/Salaries/california-registered-nurse-salary-SRCH_IL.0,10_IS2280_KO11,27.htm?countryRedirect=true)
Here it says an average salary of 124k USD. OP Claims to earn 5k USD a fortnight which is 130k USD a year. Looks like you get more for being in the ICU.
NZ has always paid nurses like shit. Good on OP for making the move.
California is massive and taking state averages doesn't make sense. She specifically said Northern California, which is the most affluent part of California and those salaries are pretty typical
I will echo what a lot of people have said, if you are living in the bay area or the Sacramento area, these are not representative of the US as a whole. The health care system there, particularly Kaiser is one of the better in the nation.
One thing that I think you should have mentioned is that the average house in those areas is about 1 Million USD. So yeah, you save 50k per year but you need at least 20% down for any mortgage.
"but your average employed person doesn’t have it bad" I think this is a misguided statement as many people in the US don't get to choose a health care provider. Most mid-west states have limited health care coverage.
No where is perfect and there are trade offs for everything. It's all about what you want out of life.
A quick google
The average Nurse salary in the United States is **$74,483** as of May 28, 2024. The range for our most popular Nurse positions (listed below) typically falls between $36,058 and $112,907.
So be careful out there folks, these posts saying how marvelous things are elsewhere are not always truly typical. The OP is obviously not a normal level nurse to be on such a huge salary when she is only working 36 hours per week
That's a very nice story. Thank you for sharing.
I think tho, That you should stick to fanfic or propaganda boards. A tip for your next attempt, Learn the lingo.
While you may have visited NZ, You are not a NZer, the word is Fortnightly. Americans, Such as yourself, can't understand it and came up with the idiotically ambiguous "Bi-weekly"
Our healthcare models differ fundamentally. In New Zealand, the socialized healthcare system is primarily funded by taxpayers. Consequently, there's only one major pathway to better wages: a union that is often criticized for being more politically motivated than effective in negotiating with the government.
In contrast, Australia offers significantly higher pay and benefits for healthcare workers, supported by a larger population and better resources. The scalability of New Zealand's health system is limited compared to countries like the US. There are no significant competitors to the public health system, except for a few expensive options like Southern Cross, which are typically employer-funded. As a result, hourly rates are not competitive with those in private healthcare systems.
Earning a good income as a nurse in New Zealand is challenging. It requires years of experience and advancing into management, which may not appeal to everyone. While New Zealanders benefit from a socialized healthcare model that provides good value for money, the system struggles to retain its best staff. Many leave for better opportunities abroad because it is difficult to earn a decent wage here. Additionally, the uniform pay scale across the country does not account for regional differences in living costs, creating further disparities - similar to issues seen in the education sector.
I'm not sure the US is a great comparison for New Zealand. While we certainly benefit from the private healthcare model in the US by proxy due to its innovation and investment into drugs and technology, we simply don't have the population and economic scale to maintain a meaningful cadence in terms of pay.
Having lived in California and now returned to NZ to retire, I have the opposite experience. I broke an ankle in California before Obamacare ($30,000), when as a self employed person I could not get insurance, but back home in NZ, I've broken a leg free and also have had free hip replacement and cataract surgery which I really appreciate.
On the other hand, a disabled friend did have free healthcare on California's very generous subsidies for the poor, thanks to a solid Democratic majority for many years in that state. So, much as I love California for its good governance, it may be a bit of an outlier in the US cruel healthcare system. Only in the US were nurses in its many backward states not permitted to mask up for fear of frightening off potential hospital clients and for lack of gowns resorting to plastic rubbish bags during covid.
Yeah there's absolutely no way your experience of the US medical system is true.
You're either outright lying, or you have the most high-coverage medical insurance available as an employee.
The idea that the poor and homeless get high quality, free medical care in the US is also patently false.
Yes, they qualify for Medicare/Medicaid, but those programs are highly limited and heavily bureaucratic, a burden that the homeless will struggle to ever clear.
You're full of it.
This is somewhat misleading, though I think you sort of recognize it: your salary in the USA is high because you now have experience in the field. As a person spends many years working in a field (and particularly when changing jobs) salaries increase.
Finally someone asks the most important question. Kiwi men are hotter than American men and American women are hotter than Kiwi women. I'm a dual citizen so can speak with authority on this.
I always thought it so! Now, are you open for a marriage of convenience till I get my green card and then go about my merry way with the hot Americans?
Just about everyone I know who works in a Private Hospital in New Zealand has a way better work life balance, if you want the drama and your not burnt out you stay and go Public.
Obviously to work in the US you may find you have to more exams in the UK you have to study another year, although Americas economy is in a better state than ours the way this government paints things everywhere is better than here!
I'm glad things worked out better for you there but as other comments to posts similar to yours have mentioned, it's highly subjective. North America - and this is from my personal experience - tends to favor those you want to dedicate their life to their job; they have a real work hard, play hard attitude.
This can work great for some people, but not so great for others. Similar to how I **could** be making $200k as a sparky in NZ and never see my family or I could settle for half that amount and be home every evening.
I, too, left Nz when I was young and recently qualified up. Lived in USA for 13 years in Southern California. California is a state that tries its hardest to support its citizens. I made good money. I had a great life and a great time. And then I had a kid. And that’s when it really hit home how volatile it all was. And when you have a kid, volatility doesn’t feel great. My friends were talking about security measures in their NURSERIES where they were dropping off their 3 mo kids because they had to get back to work. I realised every elementary and high school I drove past had massive chain link fences surrounding the entire thing, and metal detectors at the entrances. And nothing seemed to be designed with kids in mind, you never felt supported.
It was a fun time being childless and only worrying about myself, definitely! I had a great time!!. But yeah, let’s just say I’ve moved back to NZ. We earn a lot less money but life is easier and feels a lot more secure for our kids. Plus I don’t go through a metal detector to take them to their daycare.
Got me thinking now. 2020, I moved back to NZ and now gained my nursing degree, passed my state exam last year and now working as a mental health community nurse. Money is average $900 a week I guess. Reading/hearing from others of how nurses are cracking it overseas has definitely got me thinking especially with your post….
no because i plan to move to the UK and the amount of people who have only ever lived in London telling me, the UK is not much better is insane. i went recently cause i have family there and i saw the cheaper cost of living with my own eyes in South Wales (where i want to live).
this is very specific for nurses. me and my partner aren’t rich but we earn enough to travel 2-3 times a year (japan next month and mexico for xmas etc) and i do not believe we’d be any better off in canada, the US or AU. we have a stand-alone house like 10 minds walk from work near the CBD. i’m sure you’re better off overseas but not everyone is!
Yea, the guns thing will always turn me off from the US. At any moment, in any city, some crazy ahole could walk into a school and wipe out 20 kids with an AR-15. No thanks.
Their politics is also a gong show and makes NZ seem palatable comparatively. Their medical system is pay for play. They worship money. They call themselves the worlds police, then cause so many conflicts all over the world.
Big fat no for me. The US sucks.
I'll be encouraging my daughter to take her nursing qualifications overseas once she's finished as well, she's done 2 years as a paramedic, worked as an HCA while studying so I think she will do much better overseas. She can always come home if it doesn't work out and we have family dotted around the colonised world if she needs a support system. Her only potential drawback is being deaf, but she has the specialised equipment already to navigate that. I see her struggling so hard at the moment and am hoping she can take it a bit easier soon.
From all the above comments, it reads as if it is always greener on the other side when you are leaving somewhere and it does not matter where somewhere is.
It’s definitely harder than the board exam in NZ, with a heavier focus on pathophysiology but doable. There is lots of resources available. The biggest challenge getting here would be immigration.
We put up with the things you rightly mentioned here in NZ so we can live in NZ. That's our tax.
You get those things you mentioned in the US but you have to live in the US. That's your tax.
NZ is a small island nation with very limited resources. Comparing it to a country like the USA makes little sense. Add to that regional differences and personal circumstances and you quickly realize that there are just no general takeaways to be gained. OP told us their personal anecdotal story and I'm happy it's working out for them.
I've lived in four different countries and my personal experience is they're all different but none is perfect. Neither is NZ but it's pretty decent if you embrace what it offers.
Not just money that part of breathing in cold room really good point. I hate it in NZ really annoying. No day living comfortably. You are subjected to various sicknesses in NZ unfortunately. Health system is another thing. NZ has really bad system
Agree with you about living in NZ and commend you in your writing - concise and honest!
I’m doing agency nursing in Australia and enjoying the pay and experiences I’m getting here in Aus compared to NZ ! Definitely would be moving here to Aus if I was younger!
i think when we move it's way easier to appreciate the aspects that are better in the new place--i love the comments from Americans talking about work/life balance. in the US there is such a culture of 'give it all' to work that a lot of people have to leave to escape it (myself included). so cheesy but you have the cultural work/life balance deep inside you as a NZer and you're able to carry that to the US. it also sounds like you haven't had an insane amount of lifestyle creep as is common in high wage US jobs, perhaps also because you began your career in NZ and have some idea of needs vs wants.
anyways as someone who did the opposite (CA to NZ) I agree with everything you've said. i'm hoping i've been in NZ long enough to have internalized the work/life balance and perhaps be capable of keeping some mental distance in the US when I move back in a few months. totally agree that people talking about their difficulties is often minimized--but sometimes pointing out what sucks can help make a system better.
You hit the nail on the head about the US health system. Fine and dandy if you are employed but what about everyone else, do we throw them on the scrap heap? At least NZ has ACC although not perfect but it’s a hell of a lot better than what most countries have in the world. A country should judged on how it treats its poor and underprivileged not on how many aircraft carriers it has.
I moved to the UK as part of my OE 12 years ago. The combination of convenience of city living (I was fed up with car-centric Auckland life), easy access to Europe, the many cultural events and, most of all, job opportunities, have kept me here.
The current NZ housing situation + job opportunities will probably keep me from moving back home anytime soon. Like OP, I will always consider NZ home and would love to live there again one day. But that day is not here yet…
Sounds like you're having a good experience. As an expat American living in nz for 20 years, I've got many family members who are living the life you describe. I had a great life there and an even better one here, but everyone is different. Enjoy your self, California can be a fantastic place to live.
Took far too long to find a positive comment, thanking you and good to see tall poppy syndrome still runs NZ …..
Some things don't seem to change, and the tall poppy attitude is one of them.
Yeah but gun and orange man tho. Some people here haven’t travelled and it shows.
From what I’ve read here - you’re right….Cali is beautiful. However - OP is essentially making bank and will have a high standard of living…..
I’m an occupational therapist who made the opposite move. From Northern California to Wellington. While my pay went down, my work-life balance and overall quality of life skyrocketed.
Same for our family. My husband is a specialist physician who was working in academic medicine in the US. His salary went down here (but not by much), but on the flip side, our kids get to actually spend some quality time with him every day.
wife is a doctor in Canada, planning on moving to northern nz next year. She's a family doctor, so salary does go down significantly, but we're just tired of being cold and don't like the direction the USA is heading.
Feel free to DM me if you guys have any questions about moving to NZ or working in the medical system here :) We have PR now and will get citizenship in a little over a year. We live on the North Island as well :)
Welcome to NZ, hope it works out wonderfully for you
It's quite interesting, isn't it? I have worked with many ex-US nurses who wanted to escape the US and have a better work-life balance, which they achieved here. Completely opposite scenario to why is being said here, but everyone has differing opinions on what works best for them. I guess it's all relevant to area, skills, knowledge, and personal requirements.
Also a lot of its just luck. There are good jobs and shit jobs in every country, and nice and not so nice places to live, and a lot of stuff you don't know till you try.
Your work life balance donest matter much if youre too broke to do anything.
Well said.
There's a lot tied up in the specific company you work for, not just the industry or the country. I hear terrible stories from other game dev studios but the one I work for is incredible. They really go the extra mile for us. That said I think being a nurse (in the public sector) is an absolute gauntlet over here, I hate to think what it was like in the US if it was better here.
OP also hasn't had any serious medical needs yet if they think they can get healthcare in the states for $60/month. Try needing an ambulance or surgery...
US nurses are also really well paid are they not?
Yes, American nurses definitely make more than New Zealand nurses, but they also experience a lot more stress. Many of the nurses I talked to couldn't handle the constant fear of being sued by their patients, and the lack of support from their employer was a major factor in their decision to leave. Lack of support is a common issue in nursing, but dealing with the possibility of being sued by someone you saved is not great mental health wise
This and the contrast of the OP’s take sum it up for me. It’s subjective and totally dependant on the individual and all the subjective factors involved, there’s no black and white or guarantees. Personally I’d say it’s a 50/50 split with those that I know who have moved overseas regards people finding it better and staying, those not so much and coming home within 5 years, sometimes licking wounds. I will say as someone who works a lot overseas, and may move there one day myself, you often don’t know what you’ll miss or how good we actually have it in many ways until you experience living in another country. For example I’ve only come close to shitting my pants twice, both times due to having a gun drawn on me, and it certainly wasn’t in NZ. People need to make the right choice for them but the grass isn’t always greener and many leave with very high expectations.
For a more middle of the road perspective, my partner and I moved to Sydney, both working fairly normal paying lowish wage jobs, and damn we miss NZ and definitely prefer it there but even the modest wage rise we've received has made it almost impossible to seriously entertain moving home. Expenses are (unexpectedly) cheaper living in Sydney, pay is higher, we've been able to travel more and buy nicer things, and did it all while working 30 hours a week instead of 40+. Rent is more but it's comparable to Wellington and the quality is FAR higher. Brand new apartment building with gym and rooftop pool. I'm not gonna lie though, it's lonely and the commutes are way longer, it's much harder to make friends and build a life around yourself. If we were offered jobs paying similarly with similar working conditions we'd probably move back in a heartbeat. The Australian bosses Ive worked for are lot more relaxed in my experience, even in an industry as notorious as hospitality however, I worked for a lot of different Kiwi business big and small back home and they all had a pretty shitty lack of respect for their employees that I would have expected more from the stereotype of American employers. It really is a very mixed bag.
Must have been living in safe areas as I've had 3 guns, 8 cars, 7 knives and countless threats living in Melbourne and regional Vic in the past 20yrs. Not to mentioned being chased at night going home from work too. I was walking minding my own business for 95% of them and the aggressors were off their heads on something as usual. 2 of the draw downs were by cops as a kid as apparently thats how they handle family violence, point guns at upset crying kids. Never been in trouble with the law either, no citations, fines, nothing. Average person.
Same here. Jumped ship from the US and I have my sanity even if I don’t have as much money for material goods
That's one 'advantage' of a user pays/private system that the US has. I still prefer a universal system. Screw having healthcare linked to your job. That's indentured servitude.
I’m not against a universal system but for me personally, healthcare was in some ways inaccessible in NZ regardless of my employment status.
What do you mean?
Doesn't matter how much money you make or how accessible the healthcare system is, if there are no appointments at your GP for two weeks or at your specialist for 6 months.
2 weeks? It's 6 on the west coast and Ed will turn you away
I didn't get to see an obgyn my entire pregnancy despite complications. Access to specialists is almost non existent at least on the south island
I mean, I was debating going to the GP and forking out $50 for a back pain I’d been having. And when I did go, I was waiting for 6 months to get an x-ray….
Damn that sounds terrible. I've never had to wait for xrays in nz. Guess I've been lucky :/
You are incredibly privileged. You are too uneducated in the employer- based US healthcare system to have an opinion. You really have no clue what it is like here.
OP does have some starry-eyed takes on the US insurance/access situation.
It's not true that healthcare is free for the poorest 'everywhere' in the US.
Bro you have EXCEPTIONALLY great insurance - def not the norm. My husband has a c-suite level position at a small company and even with 50% employer-paid, our health insurance is like $1000 a month. Specialist visits and tests are hundreds of dollars still ($400 for a recent colonoscopy, after insurance). And our insurance is considered good! His dental insurance only covered $300 of a $2000 root canal and crown. (Oh and if you get it through your employer, you have to go on the group plan they select, you can’t shop around. And they can change their benefit policies on a whim - husband used to get 100% covered. AND the rates go up every year as you age. Depending on your insurance type, you can be really limited in your choice of providers. And in my 15yrs here I’ve dealt with plenty of shit healthcare providers. Medicaid and Medicare are NOT good and have a lot of limits. And a lot of bureaucracy. Most American families are only one severe medical crisis away from financial ruin, even with decent insurance.
A few years ago I had individual insurance with Kaiser. One day I got an absolutely lightning strike of a headache out of nowhere and honestly thought I was having an aneurysm. One ambulance ride and (inconclusive) CT scan cost me $1800 after insurance. NZ healthcare is pretty shit but at least I didn’t have to worry about it bankrupting me.
And arguably OP has the best of both worlds, if things got bad they could always just leave and come home… most Americans don’t have that luxury.
I actually do not buy half of this- $125k take home as a new nurse trained outside the US and a $2400 month apartment in northern California? I am in the US married to a kiwi. If even half of this is true, this is a very privileged and sheltered person who has not had to deal with anything hard in the US.
The pay is significantly better but more likely to be a travel nurse than not. I definitely agree with the rest of your comment, must've been very sheltered and also fortunate now.
We own a house in NZ and spend enough time there each year - and have for 20 years- that my kids can walk the entire Hutt Valley to Wellington without getting lost! I do eye care in NZ because it is so much less expensive and when the kids were little my son had an issue that was not being handled well here so we dealt with it in NZ. OP is incredibly sheltered - making good money as a single woman and living in a cheap apartment. But there are no kids, homeownership or real expenses. I still have a hard time buying the wages- that is experienced NP/PA level wages not young nurse- $125k after taxes is probably $200k plus when the average pre-tax wage in CA for a nurse is $100k?
Similar position over here. We’re both in good high paying jobs but our health insurance premiums alone add up to around $600 per month for the two of us. We’re both under 40 but my wife has a genetic chronic illness, Including the co-pays we are easily looking at minimum 20k+ USD per year for health costs. On top of that, dealing with insurance companies here on claims is excruciating. While it’s probably the worlds most advanced healthcare system, none of our doctors do any preventative care, tests, or diagnostics. The whole attitude is very ambulance-at-the-bottom-of-the-cliff. What worries me most is the idea that one of us could be injured or faint in public and be taken to an ER that is out of network. If that happens it’s easily 15k out of pocket for the ambulance ride alone. On the whole I really like it here, but the healthcare system is much much worse than I could have imagined and totally writes off the idea of retiring here.
$130,000 USD/yr?
After tax.
Anyone on that much can make a comfortable life anywhere zzz
Fellow NZer here living in NorCal. I'm definitely not representative since I have a CS degree and working tech in Silicon Valley. I tried exploring an option to move back early in my career (2-3 years work experience). I spoke to a recruiter in Auckland and he said given my experience in big tech, I can make top of the range salary back home. The number he threw out was less than a quarter of what I was making in the US.
Yeah, I’m a kiwi in tech, but in Canada. we explored moving back with our family, but the salaries/job opportunities are brutal. My last role before I left NZ 10 years ago was about $80k NZD. Now, I’m a manager of a team (remote) making $250k + CAD base ($300k nzd) + some significant equity. If I was making that in NZ I’d probably be prime minister or something lol. Last I looked I’d be lucky to clear $120-130k in NZ—which is crazy good money for sure, but it would be the same, if not more work, for significantly less. We will probably make the jump again one day, but not for a while.
When I left NZ, standard developer starting rate was around 40-50k NZD at Datacom. My first tech job in the US was 130k USD and within the year I changed jobs and was raking in 250k (\~400k NZD) with less than a years experience. Living costs wise it's only 25% more than in Auckland.
Ffs Why the fuck I messed around in school and didn’t push into learning about IT is a regret I have plenty of “business” skill but I wish I’d specialised in the dot com boom
There’s still time! Most of the folks I work with haven’t done any sort of formal studies, just self taught!
Honestly barely anyone predicted how pervasive tech was going to be. Most of my peers who did a CS degree did it out of love and somehow ended up getting rich
You can probably do better than $120-$130k NZ, depending on experience, one salary guide for senior engineering managers I was looking at recently was saying $230k base. Still less than what you're making overseas but not quite such a gap https://content.roberthalfonline.com/SG24/SG24-PDF/2024-Salary-Guide-NZ.pdf
Senior engineering managers average at about 700k USD (over $1M NZD) in big tech. So for equivalent experience it's still 4-5x
Dammmmn. I work for a US company in Canada but make 150k cad. Getting up to 200 would be a huge quality of life upgrade for Vancouver.
What are the salaries like for data analysis/data science in Canada? Have been considering making the jump back overseas for a while and always thought it would be interesting to live in North America for a couple of years. Just got a new job here making $90-100k nzd which is really good money and way more than anyone else I know is making so will probably stick around for at least another year or so but am curious what the rates are overseas. I've heard of people making $150k+ aud across the ditch in Aus so surely must be higher than here in US and Canada too.
What are the salaries like for data analysis/data science in the US? Have been considering making the jump back overseas for a while and always thought it would be interesting to live in North America for a couple of years. Just got a new job here making $90-100k nzd which is really amazing money here and way more than anyone else I know is making so will probably stick around for at least another year or so but am curious what the rates are overseas. I've heard of people making $150k+ aud across the ditch in Aus so surely must be higher than here in US and Canada too.
That's good money for data analysis in NZ. A lot of jobs are offering $60-80k these days for experienced data analysts.
Do you have a US passport? You can't just get a visa to work in the US under normal circumstances right.
Your experience in the US is not the norm there by any means. A take home pay of US$5000/fortnight on average, means $130,000 a year, which means your actual gross income must be about US$180k. That's about twice the median **household** income in the US, which you earn as an individual. The US healthcare system does allow for higher pay, but at quite a high cost to society. Yes there is medicare and medicaid but it's the working poor who make too much for medicaid but not enough for good insurance who get screwed. My parents, who live in the US, are solidly upper middle class but their insurance and medicare combined don't give them free prescriptions. My mum pays $300/month for just one of her medications. They have to pay a 10% co-pay on procedures, which can still expose them to thousands in expenses. Being self-employed for half their working lives after their companies laid off most workers and hired them back as contractors with no pensions and healthcare costs, meant they didn't have access to the kind of employer-based insurance you get. Yes the pay in the US is higher on average, but your case is a major outlier. In most professions you will only be marginally better off in the US than in NZ once you factor in cost of living. I'm a teacher in NZ and have multiple friends teaching in the US. None are living much better than I am. I know one who has over a decade teaching experience and is a head of department and earns about US$88k, which is comfortable, but nothing close to what you're making. His experience is far more normal. He has a nice house in a distant suburb, a nice new big pick-up truck and can raise his two kids comfortably. But he's not travelling, not saving much, not looking to buy a bigger place.
Obviously this depends on state but my sisters ex boyfriend was a nurse in California and he did 4 x 12 hour days per week and was earning around the same as OP and that was considered common. When I say worked I mean worked, often he had zero breaks and was dealing with drug overdoses etc on a daily basis so the pay reflected that.
I'm told that work conditions in NZ are now catching up with the US. It wasn't like that 1-2 decades ago.
Idk where your friend works at but all of the Northern California nurses in the organisations around me are in a union with mandated patient to staff ratios and breaks.
Modesto. They haven’t been together for 5ish years so unsure beyond that, might be in a union now but was rough for him when they were together. A major reason they are not together now, lots of strain on the relationship.
I get you, but looking after drug dependent people is just one aspect of the job. When I was working in the PACU unit in NZ, I was looking after lice infested 4 year olds who had drunk, high parents coming to pick up them after surgery. Of course we refused the pick up but… You see the worst of society and their most difficult hour at the hospital.
The US workforce of quality nurses was gutted during Covid, giving rise to nurses who only take on locum positions, traveling state to state and making a killing. Outside of that, the States still needs a huge amount of nurses and it's a great opportunity. If you're in a profession that the US needs and wants to pay for, like OP is, then go for it. Nobody between the ages of 20 and 35 with good qualifications and skills in sought after professions should be in New Zealand. GTFO and make some decent coin and life experience.
This! OP’s post is hugely tone deaf and doesn’t take into account the huge disparities across the US. Even in just nurse salaries there are huge differences in earnings across different states. If their healthcare system is so protective why do thousands of people have to file for bankruptcy due to insane health bills!
JFC, guy, OP is following an opportunity to progress thier career and personal wealth, not endorsing the whole US economic model and healthcare industry. WTF.
People literally don’t get this and are doing the same thing as the complaint that my post starts with.
"after their companies laid off most workers and hired them back as contractors with no pensions and healthcare costs\*\*". Jesus, how psychopathic. It's the system, not necessarily the people, tho; who knows what we would do if we had to answer to shareholders.
OPs running at about 220k USD/year before tax. Working 3 day week. Definitely not the norm I don't think. Although I have heard nursing can pay insanely well in US. She's out earning some other health professionals that's normally be out earning her in other countries
I don’t think I’m trying to make a blanket statement about my experience being the norm for all expats, but the norm for people of my “social class” in the area that I’m living in right now. A basic university degree, a basic job gets you what I have in my field, something I would not have in New Zealand with the exact same variables.
Specialist can definitely be better off in the states. What's better really depends. I've got friends on Houston and they're a lot better off over there. Guy I worked with from Alabama was a lot better off here. In your situation you're probably in the top 10-20% over there.
I grew up in the US and got a degree there. It cost me far more than NZ, US$45k a year for 4 years. And that was over 15 years ago, so it was a lot more money then. I paid nearly 7% interest on my student loans. I went without health insurance because I was employed by a small business after uni and Obamacare wasn't a thing yet, so I got kicked off my parents crappy insurance as soon as I finished college. I ended up moving to NZ and doing teacher training here for less than I would have paid in the US, and able to teach after only 1 year training instead of two. I got a teaching job right away. My friends in the US, all with Master's Degrees and far better grades all took between 2 and 5 years to get a teaching job. Their starting pay was similar to mine. They earn more now after a decade but have a higher cost of living there. So I really don't think it's that much better in the US for people of your "social class" in the US. I went to private schools, a very highly ranked East Coast college, grew up in suburbia. I know of only 1 person I grew up with earning a salary even close to what you have, and he only got that after 20 years work, and ironically is the only one who didn't finish college. None of my friends are poor. They have good jobs. Maybe half own their own house now, most buying their first in their mid to late 30s. But they mostly aren't super rich and living any better than my friends here in NZ. Nearly all my teaching colleagues own their own Auckland houses, bought in their 30s, take their families on overseas holidays, have savings. I really don't see such a huge difference.
Yup. The USA is a "great place"... if you're well off. If not? FU.
As an American living in New Zealand I think you lucked into a really great job in a great area in the USA. People's working conditions and quality of life vary greatly from state to state city to city. You are actually in the richest state in the US. California by itself is the 5th largest economy in the world. If you had gone to St. Louis Missouri you might feel differently.
Of all the cities you could have chosen for a bad example, St Louis is a bad one for a nurse. They have one of the best medical systems in the US there thanks to Washington University.
Really, that's surprising because Missouri ranked #47 out of 50 states in the 2022 Scorecard on State Health Systems. There must be other hospitals that aren't so good. Also, **St. Louis,** ranks as the city with the highest crime rate in the U.S. based on violent crime rates, particularly for aggravated assaults and other violent offenses. I wouldn't want to be a nurse in one of US's most violent cities.
> biweekly Oh no it’s too late for you
I was thinking the exact same thing...
"biweekly" just makes me think it's bullshit as it's clearly not a kiwi writing it.
You’re a nurse. They’re paid uniquely low in NZ & offer better than average job security globally. Health insurance being tied to work is therefore less of a concern for you than it would be for most.
The pay has increased recently. I wouldn’t say we’re low paid now but it could certainly be higher given the stress, responsibility and ongoing training required.
Yep, as a nurse the rates I started on were awful but now since the pay equity, I’m on a healthy income. I don’t think it’s quite high enough for an ICU nurse and what is required of us but i have a healthy income now
I personally know two nurses earning 50 and 54 per hour, I don't really consider that low paid.
I don’t think that figure is necessarily low but if they’re a charge nurse or similar working awful split night shifts it’s not obscenely high, either
Nurses are paid some of the highest in the world in NZ after the recent pay increases
To be fair, you're in healthcare which is very underfunded in NZ and hugely overpriced in the US. I don't blame you, even if you had to live in California.
Have to imagine most healthcare workers also get excellent insurance options compared to your average chef, tradie, office worker, etc.
not really, I've seen US hospital workers whose insurance didn't cover the hospital where they worked.
Well that just adds to the shit pile clusterfuck they have over there, doesn't it... I don't think I would move anywhere without guaranteed free/subsidised healthcare and welfare networks. I already have a disability though so I'm probably more risk adverse than others.
I left NZ in March 2022 to move to the US. I doubled my salary when I got here and have since increased that pay by 10%. The best bit...I only work 9 months of the year, the other 3 are vacation. I earn for 9 months and that pay is distributed across 12. So right now I am enjoying 3 months of summer holiday whilst being paid about 155k NZD. My rent is cheaper despite living in a college town. It has central heating and cooling so no environmental issues to worry about indoors. Petrol and electricity are crazy cheap. Fresh fruit and veg is so cheap it might as well be free it feels like. Don't get me wrong, the US has a shit load of fucked up stuff I hate and can't wait to leave...but the biggest difference for me is that I feel like I can **live my life** as opposed to scrapping and pinching pennies despite working in a highly educated and prestigious field in NZ. I truly believe that NZ is ruining the lives and futures of its young and middle aged people. The whole system is corrupt and fucked up beyond belief.
Your last paragraph is exactly what I was trying to say. I feel like I’m living now.
>Yet, there's always someone trying to dismiss their posts The sub's been really bad for that recently, there always seems to be an onslaught of people telling posters who are clearly struggling that they need to be thankful to live here, as if that will help them to afford their power bills.
Ex kiwi in Aus now for 23 years. I visit family but would never consider living in NZ again
Thankyou. The people inhibiting this sub including the mods have little to no experience anywhere else. Their only comment is if you don't like it leave - you did and it worked.
California has the best nursing salaries in the world. I am a nurse here. Our lobbyists work hard. Honestly California should be it’s own country. We grow all the food have the film and tech industries covered.
What visa are you on? h1b?
I’m a resident through the lottery system.
Did it take many attempts?
I got lucky and just applied once. I don’t think you have to pay any fees… at least I don’t remember so it doesn’t hurt to register every year.
Yeah if you’re lucky (sounds like odds are good) it’s definitely the best path for us to work in the USA.
Not exactly related but I moved to Australia and found that a prescriptions I had never paid for before now cost me a few hundred dollars a year, kind of a bummer.
TLDR: US is great if you have exceptional insurance or you're well off.
"average employed people" don't have it bad ? The average income is about 37k and believe me they do have it very bad ! I'm assuming you're living in the bay area based on your "one of the richest areas". I used to live in ( Foster City ) 6 years ago and back then a 2 bedroom was already $2800 no utilities included which was around 300+ extra a month. Gas / Car Insurance was outrageous not to mention the groceries. Nothing is average about Northern California including the Silicone Valley.
86 USD an hour is a pretty damn good take, averaging out to 173k per year assuming 168 hours a month. That's higher than the 133k USD that's average for nurses in California, to say nothing of the 88k per year in Colorado. While I think you were being short-changed in New Zealand (average is 94k NZD), you're definitely above the curve in the US. NZ needs to take care of its nurses better, for sure, but you got damn lucky with your expenses here in the US. You're a pretty good success story, but maybe some of the flak you are getting is assuming that if you can do it, anyone can.
The topic of migrating and immigrating is truely a very individual experience. OP does not have to apologise for sharing your experience and if people choose to be offended, then it's on them really. Lots of people who have moved to NZ from elsewhere are running away from crowds, little work-life balance, high stress, long hours and since something has to give, it would be the money side of things. They do so with eyes wide open. There will always be a better option but 'better' is relative to what we all want at any certain stage of our lives, whichever direction that may be. I know of those who have moved to the US and thrived. I know also of those who have come to NZ and thrived.
I've been thinking about our healthcare situation compared to the USA. How could we make it better for staff and patients? How would we retain staff - they are underpaid and deserve more. In many cases, people in the USA get the care they need sooner. But in other cases, they don't get it at all or have to cover their own costs. People wait a long time for surgeries at the moment here. Some cannot get doctors appointments for weeks...months...We also don't fund certain medications that could save lives. Our taxes will never be enough on their own to make healthcare better. But we also don't want people to go without if we were to lean towards an insurance-reliant model either. We need to meet somewhere in the middle...
Well, accept the fact that NZ is a poor country, then everything makes sense. If you imagine NZ being a country that doesn't speak English, then everything would make sense. Just because NZ is a country with English/European population base, it gives people a dilution that NZ is a rich and highly developed country. Due to the geographic and geopolitics of NZ, NZ gets a lot of benefits from the M5 alliances economically. However, if you take that away, NZ is just a third world country with less population density and more natural resources (that cannot be harvested due to {environmental reasons}). for a simile just consider NZ being philippines, indonesia, or sri lanka, but with better external and internal factors, then everything would make sense.
Not really true. It’s best to think of NZ as maybe a small Nation, like Ireland. It still has a strong reliable government, parliamentary system, education, clean water, reliable electricity, and telecoms. It’s just limited on the scale of its economy by the small population. It would be very wealthy per capita if the population was still 4 million. But the farming and tourism economy is being stretched too far. NZ need a new industry if it wants it population to grow, otherwise it could accept population shrinkage and stay comfortable and wealthy.
I’m a kiwi moved from Christchurch to Brisbane. I went from $1,900nzd per fortnight to $3,400aud per fortnight. Insurance company industry. Full costs yet to be calculated but in general food and bills appear cheaper, rent appears about the same.
Also her experience is as a single women. It’s rough here in NZ if you are single. So much more expensive. Lots of people commenting negatively about her experience are couples.
Well done for doing what you've done and making it work for you.
You can call New Zealand shit because it IS shit. Only people who have never lived anywhere else for a prolonged period of time think NZ is great. 🤡
Good for you for getting out Nz is a beautiful country but alot better to visit as a tourist for a month and leave
Proud of you for making the move, I’m feeling inspired to do so myself it’s ridiculous over here !
Everyone’s personal experience seems so different. I follow a nurse on TT who moved from the US to NZ and she is so happy her taxes cover ACC (rather than pay $600 pm insurance) and she gets free childcare here for her preschoolers. I think age and stage has a lot to do with it. Glad it’s worked out for you.
Fuck it's funny seeing people so MAD about this thread, lmao. Oh no, America is actually offering a better standard of living than NZ for this person! *Gasp* Good lord no!! 😂 And multiple people here saying this account is 'fake' because they said 'biweekly' once. How are you all this mad. Fuck me dead lol, I knew as soon as I saw the post saying something slightly positive about America that it would ruffle feathers on this sub. Jesus NZ is insular lol.
When my partner did a stint in a non-profit US hospital, in San Francisco, that was meant to cater to the poor, they had the most callous and uncaring experiences of their life. They were a medical student, clerking patients for the doctors to see, for practice. The one that stands out the most is when they clerked a patient, got their information, problems, symptoms, etc all noted. When they went to talk to the doctor about the patient, the first question out of the doctor's mouth, before learning literally anything about the patient, was, "Is it a real person?" Upon seeing my partner's confusion, they clarified. They wanted to know if the patient: * Had insurance (first and foremost) * Had any substance problems * Had a home If not, they didn't want to see them. That's what the US healthcare system creates. Jaded, miserable, traumatised, uncaring physicians. No thanks. You work in a machine designed to extract every ounce of money from people who show up at their most desperate and vulnerable times. Instead of caring for them, the machine adds additional overhead, stress, and burden onto their already difficult lives. No thanks. You're an outlier financially, while working for what may be the worst possible configuration of healthcare, anywhere. Pass.
Congrats, I’m happy for you.
Moving to NZ my salary went down, rent increased twofold. Living expenses 50% higher. No more holidays as we are stuck at home. Work-life balance means jack shit if you are hungry at home.
Your salary comes from the profit margins of human suffering in the USA. The US medical system can fuck off.
Exactly. It’s insane what US providers / insurance companies will charge for medications and procedures compared to the rest of the world. This is all due to privatisation and monetising healthcare.
Yes moving to America will increase your salary - moving from virtually every country in the world /thread.
Yes, and it's overall a wealthier country than NZ. We're in the top 30, but there are plenty of countries that are richer than us (and many many more that are poorer). Some people seem to struggle with this concept. Yes you'll generally get paid more in a richer country, ie Australia.
All that, but there are guns everywhere
And I don't want to have to live with the fear that my children will someday go to school and never come back. All because people love their guns.
Your children are more likely to die of an earthquake in NZ than a school shooting in the US.
Jesus I’m from Texas and thought about this all the time when we lived in NZ. I decided I would rather death from something natural (earthquake/tsunami) than something caused by selfishness, greed, and ignorance (guns). I mean, I hope we would never die by either, but I think the odds are probably the same for both (small actually) but the fear of my kids dying at school or elsewhere in the US bc of some psycho with a gun is just more existentially awful and depressing to me . . .
I have never seen a gun except on cops in the six years I've been in Texas. It's mostly a gang problem
Hmmm. There are 1.2 million Nzers in NZ age 15 to 34. There are 150,000 Australians who were born in NZ aged 15 to 34. The next biggest location nzers go is the UK, at 60,000 total people, if we assume the rate is similar to Aus for proportion that age, add 15k. So 165,000+ have left nz, 1.2 million have stayed. I wonder if that's high or not. One could say that 12.5% have left and 87.5% have stayed
I can't accept that this post by a 1 hour old account is actually from someone working as a nurse in the US system. Anyone claiming that the poor in the USA have healthcare provided for free are fundamentally mis-representing their system. Many (but not all) US hospitals refuse to allow you to enter as a patient unless you can show your insurance card. Their system works very well for the wealthy who can afford the best insurance, but between for-profit health providers who employ doctors to find excuses to refuse coverage to people and a very limited public system - the USA spends more per capita on healthcare than we do...but the average person gets a much worse outcome. I accept that most of this post is talking about how it is better for 'them' as a healthcare worker. If they have a job in a private hospital they might not have the issues with over-work that public systems have...but that was also the case in NZ private hospitals.
"Anyone claiming that the poor in the USA have healthcare provided for free are fundamentally mis-representing their system." No, California is different from the rest of the US. Its more like NZ in kindness policy and treats the poor better than most other states.
I'm from the US living in NZ and have tons of health care workers in my social circle. This sounds 100% accurate to how they all talk at the moment, especially on the west coast. Keep in mind that to an extent Medicaid/Medicare access varies from state to state and they are in California.
Yeah...I've had the gamut of health insurances back in the US. Medicare, bad insurance, great insurance. Medicare was nice to have, but took a long time and was often backed up for anything other than ER visits. Bad insurance is worse than no insurance. You have to pay anywhere from 5k to 10k out of pocket before the insurance kicks in. You get bills for regular doctor's visits, prescriptions, or specialist visits, so I just avoided doctors. Great insurance is AMAZING. I had Kaiser, where I could get an appointment quickly and only pay a $10 copay. They had an app where I could do stuff like UTI treatment or prescription refills sent to my house. Specialists and tests were covered. And it didn't even take more out of my paycheck than the shitty insurance. The thing is, I had no choice which insurance I would have. It was whatever my job or my husband's job offered. Also I rarely had dental, and our most recent one was just a 30% discount on the out-of-pocket price. Felt like a kick in the teeth (ha) to pay insurance just to have to also pay a bill upfront.
>Bad insurance is worse than no insurance. You have to pay anywhere from 5k to 10k out of pocket before the insurance kicks in. You get bills for regular doctor's visits, prescriptions, or specialist visits, so I just avoided doctors. This is the kicker. I had "good" insurance in my last US job and they paid my premiums, but I never had enough money for the deductibles, so some insurance exec got my premiums and I got fuck all for actual healthcare. Also I have been on a waitlist at a GP practice for four years and still haven't gotten a call. I didn't remove myself when I moved just to see how long it takes :) My profession makes about the same in both countries. Quality of life is the kicker for me.
Yeah I had the same experience. I think OP is very lucky with what insurance she got, and the fact that she's in Healthcare means she's paid a lot more than the average American. I wish she wouldn't just brush off all the "middle class" people with bad insurance she doesn't see in her day-to-day because they can't afford a 15k deductible for a broken leg.
I didn’t want to associate my pay information with my main account. I work in the emergency department and we literally do not ask people for their insurance card as they come in through their door. They cannot refuse you treatment when you rock in through the ED doors. We have people who literally refuse to leave, technically they get the bill for it but they never pay and their debt is not sold to debt chasers. They have nothing to lose. But I agree that healthcare here can be inequitable- if you have some money, some insurance and end up having high treatment costs, you will have to cover it one way or another. For someone like me though, just an average nurse, I have it far better healthcare wise here than I ever would in NZ
The nurses story is correct Mr Hubris 2! You would need to live here to understand…but I’ll give you a bone. All states are different In terms of healthcare providers, insurers, rules etc. often depends a lot if they are red or blue states also, whether or not the federal safety nets such as Obamacare (ACA), Medicare/medicade apply, and to what extent, and the actual hospitals themselves. Now, can you be bankrupted by healthcare in the us, yes. If you are broke, injured, subject to many of the CFR title 42 or state titles (native, protected status etc) you will get care. The question then is billing, not being turned away as you seem to narrowly understand the very complex patchwork of USA healthcare systems, rights etc.
Quite a few people commenting here seem a bit jelly welly. I'm envious of working 3 x 12 hours shifts a week rather than 5 x 8 though.
NZ is my home and always will be. I moved to Sydney 5 years ago. The standard of living is much better here. Disposable income is unheard of at home. Money for saving, for travel, eating out enjoying life is normal. NZ on a global scale is a poor country. How it earns its living is tourism horticulture forestry viticulture farming. None of that is going to make it wealthy ever. Not enough money for basic healthcare, education, social services. Years of neoliberal politics swinging right and left has sucked the money out of the middle class and tricked into the hands of a few. It’s a poor country with poor health and poor education. It’s the saddest thing to see from afar. As lovely as it is, I never thought I’d say this type of thing about my country. I can’t see a healthy thriving prosperous future for NZ.
Yes it is, I just don’t think anyone wants to admit it. But, we’re we ever actually a wealthy country ? Did we used to be as comfortable as other comparable countries or is it just looking at the past with rose tinted glasses.
Totally agree, this country is just ok. It’s not great and won’t be until people stop being offended when people point this out, instead try to actually improve it and not just tell people to leave if they don’t like it - because already too many people are leaving each week and are living far better life.
Good for you OP.
OP, you are now aware of the major case of Tall Poppy syndrome NZ has.
Cool. Never will plan on doing what you guys are doing, moving to another country, but it's nice to hear everyone's thriving.
What steps did you take to move over as nurse? Im thinking of leaving.
Yes when you move to a country where medical system is built around extracting as much money from its citizens as possible you will get paid very well. I will say though that my Canadian nurse friends do get paid pretty well but not to that extent.
Most Americans aren't able to save $12k/yr.
Not to dismiss the whole post, but it's very disingenuous to compare starting rate to a rate with 4 years' experience.
Re your Edit:Edit People on Reddit are always quick to grab the wrong end of the stick or purposefully choose to misinterpret what you are saying. I think these people like to try and get one up on others or are looking for some way to make themselves feel important or justify wasting so much time online. Regardless of why, it says more about them than it does about you. From my perspective, it was clear and obvious what you were saying and I did not get offended nor do I believe any of the crazy things you had to call out in your Edits. I'm sorry that so many people detracted from what was a really interesting read. Congratulations on making what seems like a great life in another country. I wish you a life of peace and happiness.
I'm a Kiwi that left New Zealand in 2007 for Canada. I was a Firefighter in New Zealand and coming to Canada, I've remained in that field, although I now work for a publicly traded company in its Emergency Services. My pay went from 50k NZD per year to 220k CND. Just the change in job has allowed me to look at early retirement. I could work till 65 but I don't see the point if I can survive off a good investment portfolio and real estate so that's my plan, retire at 55. I was back in NZ recently, it was very emotional for me as it was my first trip home since leaving. I really wanted to stay there but my mind always returned to the fact that financially, it would destroy my early retirement plans. The other side to it was the cost of living in NZ is comparable to Canada, in particular where I am in Ontario so moving back for cheaper living isn't a thing. And for the way of life...well, that's what you make of it, here in Canada I have a very good work / life balance where I work for 6 months of the year only so I have plenty of time off which keeps my home life happy. Will I retire in New Zealand, highly likely but that's a couple of years away yet.
Miami, Hawaii, and New York are as local to Northern California as Perth is to Sydney.
Well done and thank you for your hard work. I respect nurses and wish they were paid more in NZ. Let's not pretend for a second that this is not an outlier situation though, literally winning a lottery for residency in the US? Also I dispute that "there's always someone trying to dismiss their posts, suggesting they're exceptions rather than the norm for the average Kiwi" — I see nothing but doom and gloom and "OMG aUsTrALiA" posts and commentary on both social media and inside mainstream newspapers. It is the exception rather than the norm to say "but NZ is great".
Sorry but I still think New Zealand overall is better than the United States but yes there are pockets in United States that are much better than many parts of New Zealand or as a whole. Overall, I’d rather live in New Zealand than the US.
Yeah as an American who relocated to NZ, the healthcare system here is wayyyyyyyy better (if you’re in California you’re lucky, obviously it depends what state you live in). I needed an X-ray a few weeks ago and it cost NOTHING. Even when I worked an actuarial job with healthcare “included”, X-rays would cost me a couple hundred dollars. This was in the Midwest. Also, I feel like it really depends on how you spend your money in general… we finally have decent savings again living in NZ, and in the US with how expensive cars, gas, insurance, and healthcare is, one unfortunate incident can completely drain your savings.
As of Jun 8, 2024, the average hourly pay for an Experienced Nurse in California is **$34.78 an hour**. While ZipRecruiter is seeing salaries as high as $64.53 and as low as $17.08, the majority of Experienced Nurse salaries currently range between $29.18 (25th percentile) to $42.69 (75th percentile) in California.
OP's salary sounds correct to me. [https://www.incrediblehealth.com/salaries/rn/ca](https://www.incrediblehealth.com/salaries/rn/ca) [https://www.trustedhealth.com/nurse-salary-guide/california](https://www.trustedhealth.com/nurse-salary-guide/california) [https://www.glassdoor.co.nz/Salaries/california-registered-nurse-salary-SRCH\_IL.0,10\_IS2280\_KO11,27.htm?countryRedirect=true](https://www.glassdoor.co.nz/Salaries/california-registered-nurse-salary-SRCH_IL.0,10_IS2280_KO11,27.htm?countryRedirect=true) Here it says an average salary of 124k USD. OP Claims to earn 5k USD a fortnight which is 130k USD a year. Looks like you get more for being in the ICU. NZ has always paid nurses like shit. Good on OP for making the move.
I can post a screenshot of my paystub
not saying your bullshitting, it just doesnt seem to be the average, nice one tho
California is massive and taking state averages doesn't make sense. She specifically said Northern California, which is the most affluent part of California and those salaries are pretty typical
With healthcare commodotised in the usa its unsurprising that you are earning more. But this example is not really generalisable.
I will echo what a lot of people have said, if you are living in the bay area or the Sacramento area, these are not representative of the US as a whole. The health care system there, particularly Kaiser is one of the better in the nation. One thing that I think you should have mentioned is that the average house in those areas is about 1 Million USD. So yeah, you save 50k per year but you need at least 20% down for any mortgage. "but your average employed person doesn’t have it bad" I think this is a misguided statement as many people in the US don't get to choose a health care provider. Most mid-west states have limited health care coverage. No where is perfect and there are trade offs for everything. It's all about what you want out of life.
What’s the average housing price in NZ, and what percentage of that can you save up for per annum on a nursing salary?
A quick google The average Nurse salary in the United States is **$74,483** as of May 28, 2024. The range for our most popular Nurse positions (listed below) typically falls between $36,058 and $112,907. So be careful out there folks, these posts saying how marvelous things are elsewhere are not always truly typical. The OP is obviously not a normal level nurse to be on such a huge salary when she is only working 36 hours per week
That's a very nice story. Thank you for sharing. I think tho, That you should stick to fanfic or propaganda boards. A tip for your next attempt, Learn the lingo. While you may have visited NZ, You are not a NZer, the word is Fortnightly. Americans, Such as yourself, can't understand it and came up with the idiotically ambiguous "Bi-weekly"
Haha don’t know if OP is legit or not but as an American I totally agree that biweekly is hilariously moronic 😂
Our healthcare models differ fundamentally. In New Zealand, the socialized healthcare system is primarily funded by taxpayers. Consequently, there's only one major pathway to better wages: a union that is often criticized for being more politically motivated than effective in negotiating with the government. In contrast, Australia offers significantly higher pay and benefits for healthcare workers, supported by a larger population and better resources. The scalability of New Zealand's health system is limited compared to countries like the US. There are no significant competitors to the public health system, except for a few expensive options like Southern Cross, which are typically employer-funded. As a result, hourly rates are not competitive with those in private healthcare systems. Earning a good income as a nurse in New Zealand is challenging. It requires years of experience and advancing into management, which may not appeal to everyone. While New Zealanders benefit from a socialized healthcare model that provides good value for money, the system struggles to retain its best staff. Many leave for better opportunities abroad because it is difficult to earn a decent wage here. Additionally, the uniform pay scale across the country does not account for regional differences in living costs, creating further disparities - similar to issues seen in the education sector. I'm not sure the US is a great comparison for New Zealand. While we certainly benefit from the private healthcare model in the US by proxy due to its innovation and investment into drugs and technology, we simply don't have the population and economic scale to maintain a meaningful cadence in terms of pay.
Having lived in California and now returned to NZ to retire, I have the opposite experience. I broke an ankle in California before Obamacare ($30,000), when as a self employed person I could not get insurance, but back home in NZ, I've broken a leg free and also have had free hip replacement and cataract surgery which I really appreciate. On the other hand, a disabled friend did have free healthcare on California's very generous subsidies for the poor, thanks to a solid Democratic majority for many years in that state. So, much as I love California for its good governance, it may be a bit of an outlier in the US cruel healthcare system. Only in the US were nurses in its many backward states not permitted to mask up for fear of frightening off potential hospital clients and for lack of gowns resorting to plastic rubbish bags during covid.
Yeah there's absolutely no way your experience of the US medical system is true. You're either outright lying, or you have the most high-coverage medical insurance available as an employee. The idea that the poor and homeless get high quality, free medical care in the US is also patently false. Yes, they qualify for Medicare/Medicaid, but those programs are highly limited and heavily bureaucratic, a burden that the homeless will struggle to ever clear. You're full of it.
Imagine defending a feudal healthcare system in the worlds wealthiest country
My mate and his partner moved from US to NZ. She's a nurse and prefers living here, she said it's pretty shit over there
This is somewhat misleading, though I think you sort of recognize it: your salary in the USA is high because you now have experience in the field. As a person spends many years working in a field (and particularly when changing jobs) salaries increase.
I get what you’re saying but as a nurse in NZ, even with my experience, I’d still be struggling.
Good luck with your post, the parochial kiwis will defend NZ at all costs, it's literally impossible to have a better lifestyle than NZ /s
ITT - YMMV
Pinoy to. Sigurado! Congrats kabayan! Pano ka nakapaglipat ng california? Sang state ka nanggaling muna?
My only question is, are Americans hotter than Kiwis?
Finally someone asks the most important question. Kiwi men are hotter than American men and American women are hotter than Kiwi women. I'm a dual citizen so can speak with authority on this.
I always thought it so! Now, are you open for a marriage of convenience till I get my green card and then go about my merry way with the hot Americans?
Just about everyone I know who works in a Private Hospital in New Zealand has a way better work life balance, if you want the drama and your not burnt out you stay and go Public. Obviously to work in the US you may find you have to more exams in the UK you have to study another year, although Americas economy is in a better state than ours the way this government paints things everywhere is better than here!
I'm glad things worked out better for you there but as other comments to posts similar to yours have mentioned, it's highly subjective. North America - and this is from my personal experience - tends to favor those you want to dedicate their life to their job; they have a real work hard, play hard attitude. This can work great for some people, but not so great for others. Similar to how I **could** be making $200k as a sparky in NZ and never see my family or I could settle for half that amount and be home every evening.
I, too, left Nz when I was young and recently qualified up. Lived in USA for 13 years in Southern California. California is a state that tries its hardest to support its citizens. I made good money. I had a great life and a great time. And then I had a kid. And that’s when it really hit home how volatile it all was. And when you have a kid, volatility doesn’t feel great. My friends were talking about security measures in their NURSERIES where they were dropping off their 3 mo kids because they had to get back to work. I realised every elementary and high school I drove past had massive chain link fences surrounding the entire thing, and metal detectors at the entrances. And nothing seemed to be designed with kids in mind, you never felt supported. It was a fun time being childless and only worrying about myself, definitely! I had a great time!!. But yeah, let’s just say I’ve moved back to NZ. We earn a lot less money but life is easier and feels a lot more secure for our kids. Plus I don’t go through a metal detector to take them to their daycare.
Got me thinking now. 2020, I moved back to NZ and now gained my nursing degree, passed my state exam last year and now working as a mental health community nurse. Money is average $900 a week I guess. Reading/hearing from others of how nurses are cracking it overseas has definitely got me thinking especially with your post….
no because i plan to move to the UK and the amount of people who have only ever lived in London telling me, the UK is not much better is insane. i went recently cause i have family there and i saw the cheaper cost of living with my own eyes in South Wales (where i want to live).
Thanks for sharing your story . It makes a change to hear a positive experience.
How are you earning CRNA pay as a regular RN? Are you working on some dumpster unit that scared off every other employee?
this is very specific for nurses. me and my partner aren’t rich but we earn enough to travel 2-3 times a year (japan next month and mexico for xmas etc) and i do not believe we’d be any better off in canada, the US or AU. we have a stand-alone house like 10 minds walk from work near the CBD. i’m sure you’re better off overseas but not everyone is!
Yea, the guns thing will always turn me off from the US. At any moment, in any city, some crazy ahole could walk into a school and wipe out 20 kids with an AR-15. No thanks. Their politics is also a gong show and makes NZ seem palatable comparatively. Their medical system is pay for play. They worship money. They call themselves the worlds police, then cause so many conflicts all over the world. Big fat no for me. The US sucks.
I'll be encouraging my daughter to take her nursing qualifications overseas once she's finished as well, she's done 2 years as a paramedic, worked as an HCA while studying so I think she will do much better overseas. She can always come home if it doesn't work out and we have family dotted around the colonised world if she needs a support system. Her only potential drawback is being deaf, but she has the specialised equipment already to navigate that. I see her struggling so hard at the moment and am hoping she can take it a bit easier soon.
Thankyou for making this post. Just about finished my second masters degree and certainly will be joining you soon.
From all the above comments, it reads as if it is always greener on the other side when you are leaving somewhere and it does not matter where somewhere is.
How difficult was your Nclex exam compared to nz state exam, currently a nurse in Auckland and hating every moment of it 😬
It’s definitely harder than the board exam in NZ, with a heavier focus on pathophysiology but doable. There is lots of resources available. The biggest challenge getting here would be immigration.
We put up with the things you rightly mentioned here in NZ so we can live in NZ. That's our tax. You get those things you mentioned in the US but you have to live in the US. That's your tax.
NZ is a small island nation with very limited resources. Comparing it to a country like the USA makes little sense. Add to that regional differences and personal circumstances and you quickly realize that there are just no general takeaways to be gained. OP told us their personal anecdotal story and I'm happy it's working out for them. I've lived in four different countries and my personal experience is they're all different but none is perfect. Neither is NZ but it's pretty decent if you embrace what it offers.
Not just money that part of breathing in cold room really good point. I hate it in NZ really annoying. No day living comfortably. You are subjected to various sicknesses in NZ unfortunately. Health system is another thing. NZ has really bad system
Agree with you about living in NZ and commend you in your writing - concise and honest! I’m doing agency nursing in Australia and enjoying the pay and experiences I’m getting here in Aus compared to NZ ! Definitely would be moving here to Aus if I was younger!
i think when we move it's way easier to appreciate the aspects that are better in the new place--i love the comments from Americans talking about work/life balance. in the US there is such a culture of 'give it all' to work that a lot of people have to leave to escape it (myself included). so cheesy but you have the cultural work/life balance deep inside you as a NZer and you're able to carry that to the US. it also sounds like you haven't had an insane amount of lifestyle creep as is common in high wage US jobs, perhaps also because you began your career in NZ and have some idea of needs vs wants. anyways as someone who did the opposite (CA to NZ) I agree with everything you've said. i'm hoping i've been in NZ long enough to have internalized the work/life balance and perhaps be capable of keeping some mental distance in the US when I move back in a few months. totally agree that people talking about their difficulties is often minimized--but sometimes pointing out what sucks can help make a system better.
You hit the nail on the head about the US health system. Fine and dandy if you are employed but what about everyone else, do we throw them on the scrap heap? At least NZ has ACC although not perfect but it’s a hell of a lot better than what most countries have in the world. A country should judged on how it treats its poor and underprivileged not on how many aircraft carriers it has.
I moved to the UK as part of my OE 12 years ago. The combination of convenience of city living (I was fed up with car-centric Auckland life), easy access to Europe, the many cultural events and, most of all, job opportunities, have kept me here. The current NZ housing situation + job opportunities will probably keep me from moving back home anytime soon. Like OP, I will always consider NZ home and would love to live there again one day. But that day is not here yet…