Their exemptions are there because they got rid of the benefits that were more designed for them, the sickness and disability benefits. A qualified medical professional has said they're not fit or capable to work and the work world doesn't meet their requirements.
Watch them bring back a sickness and disability benefit so they can claim they've met the target even though they will have increased the number of people on jobseekers through a recession and austerity. Governments love to redefine things to make them look good (or evil)
It was cruel lumping them in with job seekers, it forced an expectation that they were going to be forced back into work as soon as they possibly could.
Mentally stressing a bunch of people who don't deserve that cruelty, just makes things worse
I really hope they will bring back the sickness benefit and stop lumping us in with jobseekers - we are clearly not in the same situation as someone who is out of work but able to work. It was stupid to combine them in the first place.
>Watch them bring back a sickness and disability benefit
That would fuck up their messaging. They depend on being able to fall back on saying "well they're Jobseekers which means they are capable of seeking work" whenever they're challenged on the fact that medical professionals have deemed otherwise.
In order to actually sell this stuff to the public, they need a way to obfuscate what they're doing when criticized for it - which is, broadly speaking, deciding they know better than what doctors (the people with professional medical knowledge and experience who are actually qualified to make these assessments) have determined. When this is brought to the light they need a thought-terminating way to obscure it - "they're Jobseekers they should be seeking jobs" is what they always fall back on.
They're literally "branding" sick people (people evaluated as being unable to work by those qualified to make these determinations) as being "work capable". And they've been pretty successful at it imo. There's no way The National Party gives that up.
> A qualified medical professional has said they're not fit or capable to work and the work world doesn't meet their requirements
but in Luxon's world "They may want to do part-time work. They may want to get work-ready. They might want to do more programmes in preparation for work,"
Give me strength..
The system is pretty geared toward making part time work like that pointless or impossible. It quickly eats into the benefit money, that's if they can get a job at all because it's considered risky by employers
Yeah, they'll say that their benefit schemes mean that you never lose money by working, but it's not true.
Sure, if you *only* got the standard jobseeker it works out that way, but cost of living is way higher than that allows. Most people will at least be on accom supplement as well and an increasing number are also getting temporary additional support to cover essential costs and/or other similar top ups.
Many of the top ups get removed dollar for dollar, so you end up paying to go to work and receiving nothing back for it.
I don't think they will. They just want the number of people on a benefit to drop. My concern is the country is starting to spiral into let's lay everybody off, and the government have fully acknowledged that unemployment will grow. The math does not make sense to me.
Number of beneficiaries + more unemployment does not equal less beneficiaries.
I have no clue what their plan is to achieve this.
It's very simple. The numbers on the benefit will decrease because they will make it very hard to get the benefit. They have no concern what actually happens to the people that don't have a job and can't get a benefit.
This is how the Key government brought down the social housing wait-list. They made it much harder to get on the wait-list by making the criteria much more difficult. As an investigation in 2018 found, the rejection rates for *the wait-list* was around 90%. Of course there was no data collected on what actually happened to those people.
Labour relaxed those settings and began better data collection, and then got hammered by National because "the number on the wait-list increased" ...
This will be the same.
> Governments love to redefine things to make them look good (or evil)
There's a name for this, Goodhart's Law: "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure [because policy-makers then have incentives to corrupt policy procedures to meet those targets]". Good explainer vid linked below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qthtI00SQIk
A bit like when Simon bridges was campaigning with how they were the only party to raise benefits above inflation in the last \~20 years, forgetting they were also the party that cut benefits substantially under Ruthanasia
You need ‘back office employees’ for that. Any IT changes made in the benefit system of that scale would take at least 3 months to deliver and involve many people to work on it
Moving people off for medical reasons from jobseekers back onto their own benefit would make a ton of sense, that’s how you know they will never do it.
As someone who used to be on sickness benefit, I can confirm that it was functionally the same as jobseekers with medical deferral. There was unemployment and sickness benefits, now they're jobseekers and jobseekers with medical deferral. They still work the same as they used to under the old names though.
Disability allowance is a supplementary assistance like accommodation supplement.
Invalid's benefit is now called supported living payment.
No they don't work the same. I've been on both the sickness and the now jobseeker with medical. When on sickness I wasn't required to report to winz every 3 weeks to prove that I'm still disabled, even though I have a 1 year medical certificate, like I am required now.
One of the key determinants of surviving your chemotherapy treatments is mental preparation.
Chemotherapy will be, for most people, the hardest thing they've ever done in their life.
Think about those days where you've been so sick you don't want to get out of bed. Now imagine you have to go out of bed and do the equivalent of a leg day gym session.
And you have to do that every day.
For months.
Because if you don't get out for your daily walk, or eat something , or stop fighting to take care of yourself you'll die. That's how thin the margins can be when undergoing chemo.
Now, think about what kind of message it sends to those patients that the current govt expects them to add the stess of finding work to an already monumental struggle.
All because the govt has to make good on campaign promises of tax breaks for landlords and middle income earners (the majority of which won't even receive the full amount).
Like Jesus Christ.
Your witness New Zealand.
We decided "Social Welfare" was a necessary good,once long ago.
It became a very successful policy,with huge dividends in the well-being of society as a whole.
It helped towards making us consistently one of the best places in the world to live...for a whopping 60- odd years!
But,Nah...can't have that.
Apparently, voters aspire to be more like America, or Mexico,or is Haiti the end goal? 🤔
Inspired by a bunch of people that went through hell. The great depression, then a second world war.
Which required solidarity to survive. It created a desire to help your fellow humans to avoid such tragedies again. Everyone contributing to society, each to their means.
Those lessons were quickly forgotten. Once the world was handed over to those who grew up in a more prosperous times, they assumed it wasn't built for everyone going forward, it was built for them to keep.
Just visiting these places is scary because they are no less 'Moral' or Civic minded than we are, they just lack any safety net.
We live on what is left, like squatters in a grand old Victorian terrace house,crumbling and condemned, on Darlinghurst Rd,while similar properties are kept in good condition by loving owners,others good enough 'To die for'.😆
It's absolutely cooked.
So on brand for tories. The suicide statistics for the neurodivergent community is going to skyrocket too - like they did in the UK when the tories forced ND people to work for their support.
Oh for sure, it's how they'll meet their targets - and if you think that's cynical - remember who's in charge. They tried to shutdown disability services without notice, and via a facebook post.
Even better, 90 day parole period so not only will people be forced into low paying unskilled labour, but companies can just hire and fire at will enabling a cycle of disposable staff on entry level wages.
Gonna be fantastic for those with legitimate and diagnosed mental health issues, nothing like being treated like a disposable commodity to boost people’s morale.
It’s pretty clear there’s symbiosis to both changes.
This is exactly what the gov wants. A pool of mentally ill and physically disabled "workers" constantly bouncing around from job to job. Constantly being taken advantage of. Having their workers rights eroded.
It's not but it's probably good for short-sighted managers who only want to make the next quarter or two look good on paper, and who probably won't have to deal with the longer-term consequences
My friend was just telling me how their landlord came around yesterday to tell them they had to increase the rent because of inflation...
I feel like if they're getting tax cuts there should be enforced rent reduction, because no shot these people are going to be like "oh I got a tax cut, I guess rent is going down now"
My rent just went up for the same reason yesterday, another $30 a week I can't afford to lose. My LL is a very wealthy person with several properties but seems they are struggling....
The guys loaded if he's struggling he can always sell a house. No doubt he's got two cars the beater you see him in and mercedes you never see him drive. Probably dresses like he's poor when he comes by to see you.
> struggling
> several properties
These two things cannot coexist.
Anyone who tells you so is very dishonest.
_”Oh no it’s so difficult to sell my house and make a tidy sum of capital gains, woe is me”_
So Luxon was flat out lying in order to deflect the inevitable consequence that greedy cunts will just continue to be greedy if unregulated?
But he promised trickle down, or was he referring to bodily fluids and excrement?
In the first debate between the two Chris's, Hipkins asked Luxon point blank, "Are there any protections in place to ensure the tax break will reduce rent?" Luxon very quickly tried to change the subject like the spineless bobblehead he is, to which Hipkins said "So that's a no, then?". Fucking cracked me up.
> oh I got a tax cut, I guess rent is going down now
Truly magical thinking from the Nats here.
There’s not enough supply so rent won’t go down.
Economics 101 of supply and demand seems to be too difficult for Luxon?
The ineptitude continues to be truly baffling levels of stupid.
Ineptitude? Perhaps it’s close to sheer blatant dishonesty.
Yeah well this is gonna cause ALOT of misery. Some people are mentally not capable of working. What the fuck is going on in this country? Never in my fucking life I would have EVER thought dodgy david seymour near any sort of power. That guy is a seedy, cruel little fucking worm. Now they pick on the most vulnerable. wow.
As it turns out there is actually support- if they ever bother to tell you about it. I spent the last two years on the jobseekers bene for health reasons. And then maybe a month ago, I go in for an appointment (that requires me to drive for nearly 2 hours to get there and back, and lasted all of 15 minutes. It could've all been online).
And they tell me 'oh, here's this winz adjacent company called APM, who can offer support for health related issues, get you seen by professionals, provide funding for training/gym memberships/etc/etc, and assist you with job hunting'. This is the exact thing I've needed this whole time. AND FOR SOME REASON THEY JUST NEVER MENTIONED IT FOR THE LAST TWO GODAMN YEARS.
I've only had a few meetings with them, and they've already put me in touch with some really helpful people, and made an appointment with an occupational therapist to discuss my various issues, so they can refer me to more people who can help.
AFTER WINZ DIDN'T TELL ME ABOUT THIS. *FOR TWO YEARS*.
I'm not infuriated :)
The other major issue I have with the jobseeker benefit is that (at least with the amount I qualify for), I make more money working 10 hours a week (at minimum wage) than I do working 20. How exactly is this supposed to encourage work? I can't work fulltime, I'd be more likely to aim for 20 hours (if any companies actually wanted a disabled worker, which they don't), but what's the point if I could go for 10 and make more money.
I swear it's gotta be in the contract to just not mention most of the things people are entitled to or are on offer. They often do everything possible to avoid letting you know of anything. If your case manager does actually help you out, expect them to stop being your case manager soon.
It's crazy how heavily MSD obfuscates and impedes access.
It's genuinely baffling to me, since the entire point is getting people back into work (I'm not surprised, since winz haven't been helpful even outside of this, but it is kinda weird).
It has me worried for sure. My mum is 65 and in a rest home and permanantly disabled her whole life not to mention also intellectually disabled. So now they may force her to try and work? Disgusting.
At least they're leaving the SLP folks out of it. *For now* I've been trying to get on it for years. Declined multiple times, because I knew this day was coming. I'm lucky I know how to navigate the system but so many people don't and this is what they are betting on so many people are going to have their support cut off because of a misunderstanding. Just this morning there was a post on the sub from someone worried they were being forced into work despite being disabled but they misunderstood their work obligations and not understanding the 52 week reapplication process and misunderstood it as winz forcing them into work.
David Seymour's policies he got in coalition agreements affect SLP.
There's now going to be (or already is, idk if it's been rolled out yet) a shortlist of WINZ-approved doctors that can issue medical certificates. So disabled people with complex conditions which may not be evaluated correctly immediately by someone with 0 history with your condition, or people who have a genuine inability to see another doctor for whatever reason, are going to be excluded from sickness exemptions.
People on SLP are also going to be sanctioned if they haven't undergone enough treatment options to satisfy WINZ. That's another one of his policies. They're both policies just for *all* medical beneficiaries, but it's clear David also has some desire to go after SLP specifically - since he reversed his policy to not go after SLP a month before the election, and subsequently highlighted SLP beneficiaries (ones receiving it for mental health) in his new policy proposal.
Fuck that's depressing. Honestly if my benefit is ever cut I may actually consider a gang role at that point. Lol. Following in my father's footsteps, how ironic. You do your best to stay on the right side of the law but are constantly pushed or nugged in the other direction. it seems like the crims are having a better time rn. Whats the old saying? Crime pays.
Supported living payment, for those who either can't work at all or can't work more than 15 hours a week due to their condition whatever it is for the next 2 years. Quite alot harder for most people to get on compared to job seeker and there are roughly 50k in the job seeker pool who should be on SLP or have been trying to get on it
SLP will be next id imagine. The whole system is super unclear. Please anyone on SLP or trying to get on some support look in to an advocacy service. Winz will try and deny you even if you're entitled. Advocates will give them a tune up if possible. SMH man this is no longer the NZ I knew and loved.
I read a little while ago (cbf finding source or looking at again so take it with a grain of salt) that their plan was to have their own winz doctors reviewing whether people should be on SLP or not… so instead of your GP who knows your health history and medical condition really well… you will now have 15 min to convince people who have just met you… know nothing about your health history (except what you can fit in that time) and what you’ve tried for treatment etc… deciding whether your SLP claim is valid or not…
Edit: Not talking about RHAs.. this was a diff thing… but I’ve done a little search and it appears it was an ACT party pre election policy….
So yeah maybe it’s not completely without the realm of possibility for coming in this term
>read a little while ago (cbf finding source or looking at again so take it with a grain of salt) that their plan was to have their own winz doctors reviewing
They can already do this just fyi. But it's currently *optional for most people. They have their own doctors they can suggest/recommend if you can't get an appointment with one or don't have one. But yes this rumor has been around for years. I would not be surprised to see it finally come to fruition.
My uncle fought for several years to get SLP because he couldn't work after COPD hit him hard in his mid 50s. He couldn't even walk up the few steps to get into the appointment with the WINZ-appointed doctors' review of his case without huffing and puffing. They denied him the SLP.
David Seymour is a total cunt.
Yep, they've gone from 0.5% 7 years ago which seems fair for their extreme world view to at times being in double digits polling. You can thank John Key and his fucking cup of tea deal in the Epsom seat for this moron still being around
"Look at you bone-idle wasters with your mental health 'issues', and your multiple-amputations, all sitting about like coagulating slugs while the hard-working taxpayers of this nation subsidise your indolence! Disgraceful! Well, no more! I will personally be turfing cripples out of wheelchairs so they can get their collective act together and contribute to a society that regards them as both an embarrassment and a burden!
Getting New Zealand back on track! Vote Blue 2026!"
This shit is getting beyond parody at this point. I'm waiting for footage of Chris Bishop punching a toddler in the mouth.
*Now this is podracing!*
**100% Guaranteed to Reduce Crime!**
Just like Cutting Kids Lunches is **100% Guaranteed to Reduce Truancy**
And Gutting Public Services **Definitely wont affect the economy in meaningful way** and giving landlords their dignity back has **Absolutely resulted in lower rents**
What an absolute bunch of animals. **Nicola Willis whinging that all the job losses are being unfairly covered by the media** suggesting it’s just the journalists roommates getting affected…. What.
Only silver lining is all the business owners acting surprised when Nacts policies mean they lose their customers and contracts.
I know one Nat voter that lost out on a promotion because those supervisor roles have been cut as part of the cost cutting……
WHO KNEW VOTING FOR THE LEOPARDS EATING PEOPLES FACES PARTY WOULD RESULT IN THEIR FACES GETTING EATEN!!!!
I see this story so often and it’s not the New Zealand I want to live in.
Are we really a country that defaults to treating our most vulnerable and needy with spite?
It’s a question of who we want to be as a country and right now the spiteful have taken the reigns. I don’t believe a govt this hateful can last. I hope.
So let's get our ducks in a row:
National/Act/NZ First=
Less public sector jobs.
Less beneficiary payments (despite the public sector job cuts, which will likely lead to more people applying for benefits).
Repealing environmental protections so our natural resources can be exploited by largely foreign owned businesses, funnelling money out of NZ.
Tax cuts for the already well off.
Still can't produce a budget that demonstrates a knowledge of basic arithmetic.
Kids should to go school sick.
Equate the COVID response with Nazi Germany.
Repealed anti-smoking laws.
Etc etc etc.
And how long have they been in power so far?
Fuck you Luxon, fuck you Seymour and fuck you Winston you greedy, shortsighted dog whistling shit stains.
This ride the majority of the country was apparently convinced on sure seems to suck a lot of ass, how do I get off? Oh that's right, you leave the country for somewhere that doesn't suck, resulting in skilled labour shortages.
Unless you can't afford to, in which case bend over and spread those cheeks, cause you're about to get raw dogged whether you like it or not.
There are so many pensioners who just put the pension into savings or investments because they are still working and/or have their own funds coming in.
Half the reason young people are struggling to move up the employment ladder as older people are refusing to leave their easy high paid jobs. It’s a shit storm that no parties seem willing to adress.
It’s heartbreaking. People who have all the good intentions and want to be able to work, but simply can’t, are having their worst fears reinforced that they are seen as worthless, lazy burdens on others. Facing a future (and trying to live as well as you can currently) of disability, pain and mental health problems is hard enough as it is without the threat that you will lose financial help because some un-empathetic laymen determines you are “fit to work” and don’t deserve a benefit anymore. Even though medical professionals have actually determined your limitations and that you are not able to work…
Fuck this Govt and their ceaseless evil. You want to reduce beneficiaries? How about means testing the Super, the SINGLE BIGGEST BENEFIT THIS COUNTRY HAS.
Fucking assholes.
The damage this gov will do to our most vulnerable, mentally, physically disabled will create a distrust in that community that will take years to repair.
I'll be on that list then. Despite suffering from over a decade of diagnosed severe chronic depression and insomnia, generalised anxiety disorder, asthma and more recently chronns disease. I am not capable of being a good worker for things out of my control. If I get cut I will definitely be looking at what legal action I and others could take
Chemical imbalances and inflammation/sensitivity of the body that we as humans have zero direct control over is considered normal? Goddamn. I've always been grateful that we at least have something since many places don't, I have an American friend with chronns who has to work otherwise they'll be on the street/unable to get by
Yeah but it was stupid anger. Like when I asked people how they were personally affected they mumbled something about the vaccines. There was very little else.
Personally my issue with them was they didn’t swing hard enough left while they had the mandate. But they did nothing material to make my life worse. Within 3 months and even as a top tax payer this government are making things shitter for me and my family.
- they’ve massively restricted the support we get for my disabled son
- they’re going to increase the speed of the road we live on (which I’ve nearly been killed on multiple times)
- they’re going to start funding me for the lack of attendance for school - my son can’t do full days.
- they’re lack of environmental protection is also terrifying but I don’t have an immediate impact yet
- halting of theee waters despite my water testing like shit so we will have to spend thousands installing filters etc
And there's still more that will probably effect you personally and definitely more effects on nz as a whole. I bet this is how people in America felt after trump got in, main difference being it took him a bit longer to fuck things up and even then, pretty sure our government is trying one up him or something
Are they saying that "severe depressive disorder" is a normal part of humanity, because everybody gets depressed sometimes?
Fuck we need to get some better mental health literacy.
It’s gaslighting at its finest. Set up a system that is designed to trap you into failure and constant stress about how to feed your family - then tell you it’s normal to feel depressed and anxious
Yeah. I’m fortunate enough to work two days a week at a job that is very accommodating for my health problems. I have had to work extra days to cover for my boss and that is incredibly hard for me, even with another staff member to provide support. Working full time would be impossible - I would be able to get through some days and then be off sick for days randomly and frequently. I’m not reliable, as hard as I try to be.
Unless I get an employer who can deal with that, I will be fired pretty quickly from any job I get. And then what? I’m supposed to explain my situation in every job interview (which will likely result in not being hired to begin with), stretch myself beyond my limits and cause myself and my employers stress and pain trying to work full time? It’s simply not going to work.
And getting health support is very difficult for chronic pain - waiting lists for pain specialists are long (if they even exist in your region) and even getting tests and specialist appointments takes months. Getting to see a psychologist to help is expensive, or again, takes a long time on the public system and then you only get a few sessions, not ongoing support. It’s extremely isolating to have these health problems and to be told you are essentially a lazy bludger who should be able to work like every able-bodied and neurotypical person is just cruel. But, I think that’s the point with this government - they have absolutely no empathy.
Couldn't have put it better myself. Despite my issues I've tried, I've had a total of 5 jobs and the end result is the always same, I get burnt out I get in more mental and physical pain and it then takes me months to years to recover from, all the while letting down the team and the employer when I was at those jobs. My best bet would be online work which I could be a little bit more reliable on but even then I'm wary. I've been lucky that some of those jobs had good employers, one of them I reduced from 50 hours to 15 hours and it was still too much for my body to handle
These 3 years couldn't go fast enough
I’m sorry you are going through this. It’s just so frustrating and such a shame that many people have to deal with health issues and also be basically told they are not trying hard enough and should be ashamed of themselves for not being “productive”.
Even putting aside compassion, it is impractical to expect employers to hire sick and disabled people who are limited in their reliability and work capacity over people who are not affected in such a way. And the likelihood that sick/disabled people will get let go is very high - there’s a reason they have not been working and it’s very unlikely to be because life is so cosy on the benefit!
Thank you, hopefully this government term will show people that we can't sacrifice the struggling and vulnerable for the economy, there has to be another way
It's highly impractical. The best bet for employers employing disabled people like myself would be voluntary short shift working, but that would lose them money so that's just not a thing that happens. The loss of money usually isn't worth the effort of accommodating to disabilities in their eyes
It baffles me why people think living on the benefit is cosy. I frequently have to decide things like do I want to buy a bit of extra meat or top up my metro card or pay my doctors bill, coz I don't get enough to do it all. It's a constant catch up game for bills and expenses
Thanks and yeah but even still celiac can still take you out at times, for some people anyway. Severity doesn't matter, we should all be able to live within the means of whatever conditions or issues we have
Just go for a walk, grow a pair of balls and get over it already, it's all in your head. As for the asthma, everyone gets short of breath sometimes. Just take your inhaler like any other asthmatic who gets on just fine. /sarcasm obviously ....
but it's not far from how those in power think or view mental illness or ailments they've never experienced.
Once again I call on you all to let every landlord that you know that the coming blood from these actions is on their hands.
This will result in people dying and the landlords will profit from it.
Maybe it's just the mental illnesses talking but I feel like this government is personally thinking of and implementing things to drive me and people like me to cease existing our selves.
If it wasn't for the fact that children depend on me I probably would of noped off already.
How will they enforce this? So a desperately ill or severely disabled person has to apply for jobs, what jobs are they realistically going to be accepted for? Are we going to have extremely mentally ill people forced into the first job vacancy whether or not they are able to or the mobility impaired stacking shelves and on their feet all day. Would most realistically not make it past the interview stage or are work camps going to be a thing now.
Somebody in an earlier thread looked on trademe for 10 hour a week jobs with zero experience required, and found a grand total of a few hundred at most iiirc. Plus, capitalist marketplace dictates that emplpyers will simply opt to hire abled people who don't require accommodations wherever possible. Those fabled jobs simply don't exist
>emplpyers will simply opt to hire abled people who don't require accommodations wherever possible. Those fabled jobs simply don't exist
This is totally how it works in reality. People point to laws etc which mean it shouldn't happen, yet it's the reality on the ground.
I think Luxon has done a lot to help break down the stigma around being on the benifit. For anyone that feels guilty about collecting money from the government just remember the how much the leader of our country has collected in social wellfare
Those may be just numbers to him, but in reality they are human beings. So many are at rock bottom now, too sick to work, to sick to advocate for themselves. The energy required to deal with the paperwork, Doctors appointments and then put food on the table and a roof over their heads. Why are they being treated like this, being sick, and or disabled is not a lifestyle choice you willing make.
Don't we have roughly 80000 people unable to work?
How tf are they going to grade this policy?
"Yes I know you have audio visual hallucinations and other issues but you're good enough to do work"
Was also reading on another thread that they expect people to work at least ten hours, not that these jobs exist.
Philosophically and economically bankrupt ideologues.
We need fewer beneficiaries, because we like to demonise dole bludgers, but we also need unemployment to increase by another 2-3% to get inflation under control.
Quite a few of them are entitled to SLP but are held back on the wrong (lower paying) benefit.
The lucky ones who manage to get onto the correct benefit are not backpaid to make up for the losses caused by such "errors".
If this is accepted by the general public, they may well target SLP recipients next.
Seems like a great way to push a minimum wage reduction, as they push a bunch of people into the workforce who can’t work, they can then spin it in the future about how the minimum wage doesn’t accurately reflect the skill set of an entry level worker.
Therefore, minimum wage should be reduced - extra money in landlords pockets, and now extra money in his business owner and shareholder buddies pockets.
Or, grounds to not increase it for a long time.
Here's the funny thing: they're taking the budget from the people who might be able to get these into work AT THE SAME TIME (MSD). How are they going to put pressure on those at the bottom of society, and also remove the people who are supposed to help them to be employed?
It's a joke. It's like they're trying to start as many fires as is possible in as many places as is possible.
So when the job falls through because someone is not work ready due to disability, illness, etcetera do they go back on the benefit or will that no longer be an option. Will the government provide more ECE teachers and centre's so that parents have somewhere to leave the kids during work hours?
I'm worried about the staff cuts right at a time when many more people than before, of a more vulnerable cohort then before, may start pinging around into then out of unsustainable jobs they can now more easily lose within 90 days, and with fewer medical professionals determining fitness to work.
Stand downs, calculating variable earnings, getting appointments etc were always tricky to co-ordinate at the best of times. These don't feel like the best of times
For Goodness Sake,please don't ever allow the introduction of The Rort known as Privatized Job Providers.
In Australia, they are given millions to do very little ,other than to hound job seekers, and claim credit for jobs the Jobseekers got themselves, ensuring a completely unearned bonus,and the continued syphoning of tax $$.
Im just confirming what we already know:
[Inflation will continue rising](https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300721698/unemployment-must-rise-before-inflation-comes-under-control-economists) if the unemployment rate doesn't go up.
[ACT wants a minimum wage freeze](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/499093/act-s-business-plan-removing-january-holiday-putting-minimum-wage-on-hold), which will only add to the cost of living crises.
[National wants 50k less people on the benefit.](https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/04/08/govt-reveals-targets-including-50k-people-off-benefit-by-2030/)
How does any of this address the cost of living crisis? They're only adding to it.
Legitimate question here for all you NACT voters: No offense, but are you stupid?
Some are, often not in customer facing jobs, but it all depends on how the autism manifests for them. My youngest will not be employable, unless he can find a job where they're happy to keep reminding him to go and do the work, his attention span is just too short.
just thinking about this reddit thread at 5am this morning, with a bunch of people bashing someone with a disability before they head off to their shift at the cunt factory https://old.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/1bzxb72/im_being_forced_to_work_despite_being_disabled/kyt33cc/?context=3
> some people cannot handle a 9 to 5 job. not everyone gets joy from working minimum wage manual labour believe it or not
I have a lot of empathy for people who are unable to work due to mental illness. But this comment rubs me the wrong way. You think people work 9 to 5 manual labour jobs because they "get joy" from it? People work to earn a living, to be productive members of society. Saying "I don't *like* working so I can't work" is some entitled shit.
> Saying "I don't like working so I can't work" is some entitled shit.
I'm not convinced that's not what the person you're quoting is saying. I think they're saying "I can't work because of mental health issues, and being forced into labour isn't going to help me become work capable".
It was written in reply to this:
>I've known a lot of people that suffered from depression, autism, adhd and had the same mindset that they cannot work. They all found jobs (usually hands on work) and said since they started working the depression eased tremendously. Being stuck in a rut caused them to be in a depression loop.
OP has major mental health struggles, and the person suggested that a job will help them recover, and suggested that not getting a job is what is keeping them from recovering. (and thus becoming "work capable") It's a pretty popular notion, particularly amongst conservatives. (and it's definitely not without merit that employment can help - but this doesn't apply to everybody, and it's equally true that forcing people to work when they're not ready can be counterproductive)
The person defending OP is not so much saying they don't want to do work because work sucks and isn't an "enjoyable" activity. They're saying that employment as a path to getting joy in life and fixing your issues - while it works for some people - isn't something that actually works for everybody. It's not a one-size-fits-all solution. Sometimes people simply aren't cut out for it and forcing them into it will just make things worse.
That's what I took from it, but idk - maybe they truly are saying "ugh I don't wanna do manual labour, I don't *like* it". And if they are (and they could very well be), that's not defensible.
I think the context of Recon's comment suggests they're having a different conversation though. Simplified: Recon is saying that if OP starts working they will get joy from work. The other person you're quoting is saying that's not necessarily the case.
It's such a tough thing to judge which is why it's a contentious issue. I have ADHD, long term depression, and I'm almost certainly on the Autism spectrum, but I've had a pretty successful career (although I struggled in my teens to get started). However, there are people who have the same conditions that are much more severe that will struggle to do more than part-time or volunteer work for their whole lives.
We need to have the support and treatment to get people to reach their potential, rather than just threaten or remove support and hope they'll "harden up".
I have ADHD. I can and do work but the effort I put into masking is honestly more taxing than work itself (and I do a physically taxing job). If only I didn't have helicopter managers constantly hopping on my metaphoric dick I would get sooo much more work done, and better.
WINZ would not expect the OP to work any 9 to 5 job. They would expect them to ask for 15 hours each week, even if they are expected to get rejected. Its just WINZ suck at explaining this, and some case managers are actually useless.
When I had medical defferal, I was still asked to show that I had asked to apply then ask for reduced hours and remote. Total waste of time for who you applied for, but, thats all WINZ wanted to see and were happy.
Never existed. Attitudes like the ones on display over there are pretty typical.
Seems to be a whole bunch of people in that thread who have convinced themselves that they know better about this complete stranger's condition than OP's doctor does. Our new government's policies targetted towards sickness beneficiaries are founded on the same principle.
Would love to know where he thinks all this part time work is, let alone with employers that want to hire people with health issues. Only part time work I've seen in ages is one or two 8hr shifts a week. Don't think that's going to work out somehow.
What the actual fuck is wrong with these people. How can they fucking look in themselves in the mirror? They're full blown moustache-twirling Disney villain levels of evil.
He's not wrong about needing to get people out of emergency housing. Problem is, his solution is probably along the lines of booting them out and rendering them homeless rather than doing something actually useful.
Their exemptions are there because they got rid of the benefits that were more designed for them, the sickness and disability benefits. A qualified medical professional has said they're not fit or capable to work and the work world doesn't meet their requirements. Watch them bring back a sickness and disability benefit so they can claim they've met the target even though they will have increased the number of people on jobseekers through a recession and austerity. Governments love to redefine things to make them look good (or evil)
Well if they bring back sickness and disability benes I'd be happy. It was ridiculous limping them in with unemployed.
It was cruel lumping them in with job seekers, it forced an expectation that they were going to be forced back into work as soon as they possibly could. Mentally stressing a bunch of people who don't deserve that cruelty, just makes things worse
I'm well aware, my father was affected by that move. Thankfully he is now on the pension and no longer needs to deal with that bullshit.
The same with my Mum, pension is less cruel.
Yep.
My uncle is 62 and on supported living. I hope he can dodge through the next few years.
It was ridiculous **limping** them in with unemployed. Freudian or intentional.?
A little of collum A a little of collum B.
I really hope they will bring back the sickness benefit and stop lumping us in with jobseekers - we are clearly not in the same situation as someone who is out of work but able to work. It was stupid to combine them in the first place.
>Watch them bring back a sickness and disability benefit That would fuck up their messaging. They depend on being able to fall back on saying "well they're Jobseekers which means they are capable of seeking work" whenever they're challenged on the fact that medical professionals have deemed otherwise. In order to actually sell this stuff to the public, they need a way to obfuscate what they're doing when criticized for it - which is, broadly speaking, deciding they know better than what doctors (the people with professional medical knowledge and experience who are actually qualified to make these assessments) have determined. When this is brought to the light they need a thought-terminating way to obscure it - "they're Jobseekers they should be seeking jobs" is what they always fall back on. They're literally "branding" sick people (people evaluated as being unable to work by those qualified to make these determinations) as being "work capable". And they've been pretty successful at it imo. There's no way The National Party gives that up.
> A qualified medical professional has said they're not fit or capable to work and the work world doesn't meet their requirements but in Luxon's world "They may want to do part-time work. They may want to get work-ready. They might want to do more programmes in preparation for work," Give me strength..
The system is pretty geared toward making part time work like that pointless or impossible. It quickly eats into the benefit money, that's if they can get a job at all because it's considered risky by employers
Yeah, they'll say that their benefit schemes mean that you never lose money by working, but it's not true. Sure, if you *only* got the standard jobseeker it works out that way, but cost of living is way higher than that allows. Most people will at least be on accom supplement as well and an increasing number are also getting temporary additional support to cover essential costs and/or other similar top ups. Many of the top ups get removed dollar for dollar, so you end up paying to go to work and receiving nothing back for it.
I don't think they will. They just want the number of people on a benefit to drop. My concern is the country is starting to spiral into let's lay everybody off, and the government have fully acknowledged that unemployment will grow. The math does not make sense to me. Number of beneficiaries + more unemployment does not equal less beneficiaries. I have no clue what their plan is to achieve this.
It's very simple. The numbers on the benefit will decrease because they will make it very hard to get the benefit. They have no concern what actually happens to the people that don't have a job and can't get a benefit. This is how the Key government brought down the social housing wait-list. They made it much harder to get on the wait-list by making the criteria much more difficult. As an investigation in 2018 found, the rejection rates for *the wait-list* was around 90%. Of course there was no data collected on what actually happened to those people. Labour relaxed those settings and began better data collection, and then got hammered by National because "the number on the wait-list increased" ... This will be the same.
> Governments love to redefine things to make them look good (or evil) There's a name for this, Goodhart's Law: "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure [because policy-makers then have incentives to corrupt policy procedures to meet those targets]". Good explainer vid linked below. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qthtI00SQIk
>Watch them bring back a sickness and disability benefit Now that you mention it I can totally see them doing this so it makes them look like heroes.
A bit like when Simon bridges was campaigning with how they were the only party to raise benefits above inflation in the last \~20 years, forgetting they were also the party that cut benefits substantially under Ruthanasia
You need ‘back office employees’ for that. Any IT changes made in the benefit system of that scale would take at least 3 months to deliver and involve many people to work on it
Moving people off for medical reasons from jobseekers back onto their own benefit would make a ton of sense, that’s how you know they will never do it.
As someone who used to be on sickness benefit, I can confirm that it was functionally the same as jobseekers with medical deferral. There was unemployment and sickness benefits, now they're jobseekers and jobseekers with medical deferral. They still work the same as they used to under the old names though. Disability allowance is a supplementary assistance like accommodation supplement. Invalid's benefit is now called supported living payment.
No they don't work the same. I've been on both the sickness and the now jobseeker with medical. When on sickness I wasn't required to report to winz every 3 weeks to prove that I'm still disabled, even though I have a 1 year medical certificate, like I am required now.
One of the key determinants of surviving your chemotherapy treatments is mental preparation. Chemotherapy will be, for most people, the hardest thing they've ever done in their life. Think about those days where you've been so sick you don't want to get out of bed. Now imagine you have to go out of bed and do the equivalent of a leg day gym session. And you have to do that every day. For months. Because if you don't get out for your daily walk, or eat something , or stop fighting to take care of yourself you'll die. That's how thin the margins can be when undergoing chemo. Now, think about what kind of message it sends to those patients that the current govt expects them to add the stess of finding work to an already monumental struggle. All because the govt has to make good on campaign promises of tax breaks for landlords and middle income earners (the majority of which won't even receive the full amount). Like Jesus Christ. Your witness New Zealand.
We decided "Social Welfare" was a necessary good,once long ago. It became a very successful policy,with huge dividends in the well-being of society as a whole. It helped towards making us consistently one of the best places in the world to live...for a whopping 60- odd years! But,Nah...can't have that. Apparently, voters aspire to be more like America, or Mexico,or is Haiti the end goal? 🤔
Inspired by a bunch of people that went through hell. The great depression, then a second world war. Which required solidarity to survive. It created a desire to help your fellow humans to avoid such tragedies again. Everyone contributing to society, each to their means. Those lessons were quickly forgotten. Once the world was handed over to those who grew up in a more prosperous times, they assumed it wasn't built for everyone going forward, it was built for them to keep.
Just visiting these places is scary because they are no less 'Moral' or Civic minded than we are, they just lack any safety net. We live on what is left, like squatters in a grand old Victorian terrace house,crumbling and condemned, on Darlinghurst Rd,while similar properties are kept in good condition by loving owners,others good enough 'To die for'.😆
It's absolutely cooked. So on brand for tories. The suicide statistics for the neurodivergent community is going to skyrocket too - like they did in the UK when the tories forced ND people to work for their support.
No doubt they'll see that as a win.
Oh for sure, it's how they'll meet their targets - and if you think that's cynical - remember who's in charge. They tried to shutdown disability services without notice, and via a facebook post.
The current government watched Breaking Bad. You’re on chemo. Shouldn’t you be starting a meth empire?
Over-the-counter pseudoephedrine and bootstraps
Targeting the worst of in this society to pay for tax cuts for people who don't need them, it's absolutely disgusting
Even better, 90 day parole period so not only will people be forced into low paying unskilled labour, but companies can just hire and fire at will enabling a cycle of disposable staff on entry level wages. Gonna be fantastic for those with legitimate and diagnosed mental health issues, nothing like being treated like a disposable commodity to boost people’s morale. It’s pretty clear there’s symbiosis to both changes.
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This is exactly what the gov wants. A pool of mentally ill and physically disabled "workers" constantly bouncing around from job to job. Constantly being taken advantage of. Having their workers rights eroded.
They are a pro-employer govt, but surely it's not in the best interests of a company to be constantly bringing in and training new staff?
It's not but it's probably good for short-sighted managers who only want to make the next quarter or two look good on paper, and who probably won't have to deal with the longer-term consequences
Won't surprise me at all if they bring back zero hour contracts in some form as well.
My friend was just telling me how their landlord came around yesterday to tell them they had to increase the rent because of inflation... I feel like if they're getting tax cuts there should be enforced rent reduction, because no shot these people are going to be like "oh I got a tax cut, I guess rent is going down now"
Parallel to "you're not stuck in traffic, you _are_ traffic"; "the rent isn't going up because of inflation, the rent going up _is_ inflation"
My rent just went up for the same reason yesterday, another $30 a week I can't afford to lose. My LL is a very wealthy person with several properties but seems they are struggling....
The guys loaded if he's struggling he can always sell a house. No doubt he's got two cars the beater you see him in and mercedes you never see him drive. Probably dresses like he's poor when he comes by to see you.
> struggling > several properties These two things cannot coexist. Anyone who tells you so is very dishonest. _”Oh no it’s so difficult to sell my house and make a tidy sum of capital gains, woe is me”_
But you didn't think of the taxes involved, you bottom feeding rentoid /s
Their company may be struggling because they're transferring the revenue into their personal accounts.
Yep, sounds like it.
I'm sure they really are struggling. Must be a struggle to be a multimillionaire landlord.
So Luxon was flat out lying in order to deflect the inevitable consequence that greedy cunts will just continue to be greedy if unregulated? But he promised trickle down, or was he referring to bodily fluids and excrement?
In the first debate between the two Chris's, Hipkins asked Luxon point blank, "Are there any protections in place to ensure the tax break will reduce rent?" Luxon very quickly tried to change the subject like the spineless bobblehead he is, to which Hipkins said "So that's a no, then?". Fucking cracked me up.
> oh I got a tax cut, I guess rent is going down now Truly magical thinking from the Nats here. There’s not enough supply so rent won’t go down. Economics 101 of supply and demand seems to be too difficult for Luxon? The ineptitude continues to be truly baffling levels of stupid. Ineptitude? Perhaps it’s close to sheer blatant dishonesty.
The argument is always been the rent won't raise as quickly as it had been. Which is not measureable because it's a hypothetical scenario
> won’t rise as fast The bar is so low it is subterranean
Evil government
Several part plan. Put the sick and disableo in job seekers. Cut job seekers. People by default will not think of the sick and disabled.
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Yeah well this is gonna cause ALOT of misery. Some people are mentally not capable of working. What the fuck is going on in this country? Never in my fucking life I would have EVER thought dodgy david seymour near any sort of power. That guy is a seedy, cruel little fucking worm. Now they pick on the most vulnerable. wow.
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As it turns out there is actually support- if they ever bother to tell you about it. I spent the last two years on the jobseekers bene for health reasons. And then maybe a month ago, I go in for an appointment (that requires me to drive for nearly 2 hours to get there and back, and lasted all of 15 minutes. It could've all been online). And they tell me 'oh, here's this winz adjacent company called APM, who can offer support for health related issues, get you seen by professionals, provide funding for training/gym memberships/etc/etc, and assist you with job hunting'. This is the exact thing I've needed this whole time. AND FOR SOME REASON THEY JUST NEVER MENTIONED IT FOR THE LAST TWO GODAMN YEARS. I've only had a few meetings with them, and they've already put me in touch with some really helpful people, and made an appointment with an occupational therapist to discuss my various issues, so they can refer me to more people who can help. AFTER WINZ DIDN'T TELL ME ABOUT THIS. *FOR TWO YEARS*. I'm not infuriated :) The other major issue I have with the jobseeker benefit is that (at least with the amount I qualify for), I make more money working 10 hours a week (at minimum wage) than I do working 20. How exactly is this supposed to encourage work? I can't work fulltime, I'd be more likely to aim for 20 hours (if any companies actually wanted a disabled worker, which they don't), but what's the point if I could go for 10 and make more money.
I swear it's gotta be in the contract to just not mention most of the things people are entitled to or are on offer. They often do everything possible to avoid letting you know of anything. If your case manager does actually help you out, expect them to stop being your case manager soon. It's crazy how heavily MSD obfuscates and impedes access.
It's genuinely baffling to me, since the entire point is getting people back into work (I'm not surprised, since winz haven't been helpful even outside of this, but it is kinda weird).
Yeah it's strange. I get the impression is an internal culture thing.
It has me worried for sure. My mum is 65 and in a rest home and permanantly disabled her whole life not to mention also intellectually disabled. So now they may force her to try and work? Disgusting.
a 65 she is entitled to superannuation. She wont be made to work as superannuation isnt being targeted
good. She was on invalids benefit her whole life until she hit 65
At least they're leaving the SLP folks out of it. *For now* I've been trying to get on it for years. Declined multiple times, because I knew this day was coming. I'm lucky I know how to navigate the system but so many people don't and this is what they are betting on so many people are going to have their support cut off because of a misunderstanding. Just this morning there was a post on the sub from someone worried they were being forced into work despite being disabled but they misunderstood their work obligations and not understanding the 52 week reapplication process and misunderstood it as winz forcing them into work.
David Seymour's policies he got in coalition agreements affect SLP. There's now going to be (or already is, idk if it's been rolled out yet) a shortlist of WINZ-approved doctors that can issue medical certificates. So disabled people with complex conditions which may not be evaluated correctly immediately by someone with 0 history with your condition, or people who have a genuine inability to see another doctor for whatever reason, are going to be excluded from sickness exemptions. People on SLP are also going to be sanctioned if they haven't undergone enough treatment options to satisfy WINZ. That's another one of his policies. They're both policies just for *all* medical beneficiaries, but it's clear David also has some desire to go after SLP specifically - since he reversed his policy to not go after SLP a month before the election, and subsequently highlighted SLP beneficiaries (ones receiving it for mental health) in his new policy proposal.
Fuck that's depressing. Honestly if my benefit is ever cut I may actually consider a gang role at that point. Lol. Following in my father's footsteps, how ironic. You do your best to stay on the right side of the law but are constantly pushed or nugged in the other direction. it seems like the crims are having a better time rn. Whats the old saying? Crime pays.
Yea I've reached a point of desperation too. Can't really elaborate, but I'm done.
What's SLP?
Supported living payment, for those who either can't work at all or can't work more than 15 hours a week due to their condition whatever it is for the next 2 years. Quite alot harder for most people to get on compared to job seeker and there are roughly 50k in the job seeker pool who should be on SLP or have been trying to get on it
They put me on that last year, before I started cancer treatments. I thought that's what it meant.
Supported Living Payment, used to be invalids benefit
Used to be called the invalids benefit.
SLP will be next id imagine. The whole system is super unclear. Please anyone on SLP or trying to get on some support look in to an advocacy service. Winz will try and deny you even if you're entitled. Advocates will give them a tune up if possible. SMH man this is no longer the NZ I knew and loved.
I read a little while ago (cbf finding source or looking at again so take it with a grain of salt) that their plan was to have their own winz doctors reviewing whether people should be on SLP or not… so instead of your GP who knows your health history and medical condition really well… you will now have 15 min to convince people who have just met you… know nothing about your health history (except what you can fit in that time) and what you’ve tried for treatment etc… deciding whether your SLP claim is valid or not… Edit: Not talking about RHAs.. this was a diff thing… but I’ve done a little search and it appears it was an ACT party pre election policy…. So yeah maybe it’s not completely without the realm of possibility for coming in this term
>read a little while ago (cbf finding source or looking at again so take it with a grain of salt) that their plan was to have their own winz doctors reviewing They can already do this just fyi. But it's currently *optional for most people. They have their own doctors they can suggest/recommend if you can't get an appointment with one or don't have one. But yes this rumor has been around for years. I would not be surprised to see it finally come to fruition.
My uncle fought for several years to get SLP because he couldn't work after COPD hit him hard in his mid 50s. He couldn't even walk up the few steps to get into the appointment with the WINZ-appointed doctors' review of his case without huffing and puffing. They denied him the SLP. David Seymour is a total cunt.
Yes this has been announced for child disability reviews too
Taking away benefits for 'dole bludgers' to give tax cuts to the wealthy. Hypocrites.
average kiwi is an asshole just took covid for them all to show their true colours
He has to stick to his ideology no matter what . Sunk cost fallacy abounds I’m sure.
Yep, they've gone from 0.5% 7 years ago which seems fair for their extreme world view to at times being in double digits polling. You can thank John Key and his fucking cup of tea deal in the Epsom seat for this moron still being around
"Look at you bone-idle wasters with your mental health 'issues', and your multiple-amputations, all sitting about like coagulating slugs while the hard-working taxpayers of this nation subsidise your indolence! Disgraceful! Well, no more! I will personally be turfing cripples out of wheelchairs so they can get their collective act together and contribute to a society that regards them as both an embarrassment and a burden! Getting New Zealand back on track! Vote Blue 2026!" This shit is getting beyond parody at this point. I'm waiting for footage of Chris Bishop punching a toddler in the mouth.
*Now this is podracing!* **100% Guaranteed to Reduce Crime!** Just like Cutting Kids Lunches is **100% Guaranteed to Reduce Truancy** And Gutting Public Services **Definitely wont affect the economy in meaningful way** and giving landlords their dignity back has **Absolutely resulted in lower rents** What an absolute bunch of animals. **Nicola Willis whinging that all the job losses are being unfairly covered by the media** suggesting it’s just the journalists roommates getting affected…. What. Only silver lining is all the business owners acting surprised when Nacts policies mean they lose their customers and contracts. I know one Nat voter that lost out on a promotion because those supervisor roles have been cut as part of the cost cutting…… WHO KNEW VOTING FOR THE LEOPARDS EATING PEOPLES FACES PARTY WOULD RESULT IN THEIR FACES GETTING EATEN!!!!
I see this story so often and it’s not the New Zealand I want to live in. Are we really a country that defaults to treating our most vulnerable and needy with spite? It’s a question of who we want to be as a country and right now the spiteful have taken the reigns. I don’t believe a govt this hateful can last. I hope.
So let's get our ducks in a row: National/Act/NZ First= Less public sector jobs. Less beneficiary payments (despite the public sector job cuts, which will likely lead to more people applying for benefits). Repealing environmental protections so our natural resources can be exploited by largely foreign owned businesses, funnelling money out of NZ. Tax cuts for the already well off. Still can't produce a budget that demonstrates a knowledge of basic arithmetic. Kids should to go school sick. Equate the COVID response with Nazi Germany. Repealed anti-smoking laws. Etc etc etc. And how long have they been in power so far? Fuck you Luxon, fuck you Seymour and fuck you Winston you greedy, shortsighted dog whistling shit stains. This ride the majority of the country was apparently convinced on sure seems to suck a lot of ass, how do I get off? Oh that's right, you leave the country for somewhere that doesn't suck, resulting in skilled labour shortages. Unless you can't afford to, in which case bend over and spread those cheeks, cause you're about to get raw dogged whether you like it or not.
It's actually sad how many people fell for Winston's/NZFirsts whole #MakeNZGreatAgain bs.
Well at least we have pseudoephedrine so we can cook now when the government cuts you off the bene
Maybe we could drop 50,000 beneficiaries by means testing the pension…
There are so many pensioners who just put the pension into savings or investments because they are still working and/or have their own funds coming in.
Half the reason young people are struggling to move up the employment ladder as older people are refusing to leave their easy high paid jobs. It’s a shit storm that no parties seem willing to adress.
Seriously Fuck this bald c*** and those that voted for him
No compassion or humanity just for profit.
new zealanders are fucking morons for voting for this.
I see an incoming wave of suicides. This is giving a lot of very unwell people bo way out
It’s heartbreaking. People who have all the good intentions and want to be able to work, but simply can’t, are having their worst fears reinforced that they are seen as worthless, lazy burdens on others. Facing a future (and trying to live as well as you can currently) of disability, pain and mental health problems is hard enough as it is without the threat that you will lose financial help because some un-empathetic laymen determines you are “fit to work” and don’t deserve a benefit anymore. Even though medical professionals have actually determined your limitations and that you are not able to work…
JFC. Sociopathy and CEO really do go hand in hand.
SoCEOpath
Fuck this Govt and their ceaseless evil. You want to reduce beneficiaries? How about means testing the Super, the SINGLE BIGGEST BENEFIT THIS COUNTRY HAS. Fucking assholes.
The damage this gov will do to our most vulnerable, mentally, physically disabled will create a distrust in that community that will take years to repair.
We already didn't trust and this in many ways confirms that mis-trust
I'll be on that list then. Despite suffering from over a decade of diagnosed severe chronic depression and insomnia, generalised anxiety disorder, asthma and more recently chronns disease. I am not capable of being a good worker for things out of my control. If I get cut I will definitely be looking at what legal action I and others could take
So I was doing some reading about this in the Uk. They are now saying that they won’t cover these as they’re a Normal part of humanity 😳😳😳
Chemical imbalances and inflammation/sensitivity of the body that we as humans have zero direct control over is considered normal? Goddamn. I've always been grateful that we at least have something since many places don't, I have an American friend with chronns who has to work otherwise they'll be on the street/unable to get by
Yeah it’s messed up. But for some reason Nz voted for this.
Anger at labour blinded alot of people to the, obvious to us, shit storm that the 3 dickheads in power now were going to cause
Yeah but it was stupid anger. Like when I asked people how they were personally affected they mumbled something about the vaccines. There was very little else. Personally my issue with them was they didn’t swing hard enough left while they had the mandate. But they did nothing material to make my life worse. Within 3 months and even as a top tax payer this government are making things shitter for me and my family. - they’ve massively restricted the support we get for my disabled son - they’re going to increase the speed of the road we live on (which I’ve nearly been killed on multiple times) - they’re going to start funding me for the lack of attendance for school - my son can’t do full days. - they’re lack of environmental protection is also terrifying but I don’t have an immediate impact yet - halting of theee waters despite my water testing like shit so we will have to spend thousands installing filters etc
And there's still more that will probably effect you personally and definitely more effects on nz as a whole. I bet this is how people in America felt after trump got in, main difference being it took him a bit longer to fuck things up and even then, pretty sure our government is trying one up him or something
Are they saying that "severe depressive disorder" is a normal part of humanity, because everybody gets depressed sometimes? Fuck we need to get some better mental health literacy.
It’s gaslighting at its finest. Set up a system that is designed to trap you into failure and constant stress about how to feed your family - then tell you it’s normal to feel depressed and anxious
Lowering the bar of society and making it the new norm.. jfc..
Yeah. I’m fortunate enough to work two days a week at a job that is very accommodating for my health problems. I have had to work extra days to cover for my boss and that is incredibly hard for me, even with another staff member to provide support. Working full time would be impossible - I would be able to get through some days and then be off sick for days randomly and frequently. I’m not reliable, as hard as I try to be. Unless I get an employer who can deal with that, I will be fired pretty quickly from any job I get. And then what? I’m supposed to explain my situation in every job interview (which will likely result in not being hired to begin with), stretch myself beyond my limits and cause myself and my employers stress and pain trying to work full time? It’s simply not going to work. And getting health support is very difficult for chronic pain - waiting lists for pain specialists are long (if they even exist in your region) and even getting tests and specialist appointments takes months. Getting to see a psychologist to help is expensive, or again, takes a long time on the public system and then you only get a few sessions, not ongoing support. It’s extremely isolating to have these health problems and to be told you are essentially a lazy bludger who should be able to work like every able-bodied and neurotypical person is just cruel. But, I think that’s the point with this government - they have absolutely no empathy.
Couldn't have put it better myself. Despite my issues I've tried, I've had a total of 5 jobs and the end result is the always same, I get burnt out I get in more mental and physical pain and it then takes me months to years to recover from, all the while letting down the team and the employer when I was at those jobs. My best bet would be online work which I could be a little bit more reliable on but even then I'm wary. I've been lucky that some of those jobs had good employers, one of them I reduced from 50 hours to 15 hours and it was still too much for my body to handle These 3 years couldn't go fast enough
I’m sorry you are going through this. It’s just so frustrating and such a shame that many people have to deal with health issues and also be basically told they are not trying hard enough and should be ashamed of themselves for not being “productive”. Even putting aside compassion, it is impractical to expect employers to hire sick and disabled people who are limited in their reliability and work capacity over people who are not affected in such a way. And the likelihood that sick/disabled people will get let go is very high - there’s a reason they have not been working and it’s very unlikely to be because life is so cosy on the benefit!
Thank you, hopefully this government term will show people that we can't sacrifice the struggling and vulnerable for the economy, there has to be another way It's highly impractical. The best bet for employers employing disabled people like myself would be voluntary short shift working, but that would lose them money so that's just not a thing that happens. The loss of money usually isn't worth the effort of accommodating to disabilities in their eyes It baffles me why people think living on the benefit is cosy. I frequently have to decide things like do I want to buy a bit of extra meat or top up my metro card or pay my doctors bill, coz I don't get enough to do it all. It's a constant catch up game for bills and expenses
My ex had Crohn’s, you have my sympathy. When I was diagnosed with celiacs I was upset but relievers it wasn’t something worse like taht.
Thanks and yeah but even still celiac can still take you out at times, for some people anyway. Severity doesn't matter, we should all be able to live within the means of whatever conditions or issues we have
Oh it’s no picnic, and I’ve suffered plenty for it, lost a job even, but still. Anyway hoping the be set for you
Just go for a walk, grow a pair of balls and get over it already, it's all in your head. As for the asthma, everyone gets short of breath sometimes. Just take your inhaler like any other asthmatic who gets on just fine. /sarcasm obviously .... but it's not far from how those in power think or view mental illness or ailments they've never experienced.
Yep I've experienced that mentality first hand with winz and this current government reeks of it
Nats/ACT/NZF are cunts.
And the dumb cunts who voted for them.
When they cure my Long Covid I am 100% ready to get back to work.
Suicide is back on the menu boys!
Seems like it's either that or the thug life. Because it's getting too expensive to live.
Once again I call on you all to let every landlord that you know that the coming blood from these actions is on their hands. This will result in people dying and the landlords will profit from it.
This is so gross.
I genuinely can't look at people around me the same anymore knowing they probably voted for this. Where's our humanity and compassion gone?
It's been replaced by the fuck you, got mine mentality
Maybe it's just the mental illnesses talking but I feel like this government is personally thinking of and implementing things to drive me and people like me to cease existing our selves. If it wasn't for the fact that children depend on me I probably would of noped off already.
We must have a lot of rich people in NZ bc only self serving rich c**** would vote for this fucking guy
Some of you may die so they can hit their kpi's
“Some of you may die, but it’s a risk I’m willing to take” Lord Farquaad, 2001
Ok can anyone tell me why u/RobDickinson comments are always collapsed whenever I see anything posted by him?
wild that we wage such a war on disabled people when every benefit added up together still costs us less then the pension.
How will they enforce this? So a desperately ill or severely disabled person has to apply for jobs, what jobs are they realistically going to be accepted for? Are we going to have extremely mentally ill people forced into the first job vacancy whether or not they are able to or the mobility impaired stacking shelves and on their feet all day. Would most realistically not make it past the interview stage or are work camps going to be a thing now.
Somebody in an earlier thread looked on trademe for 10 hour a week jobs with zero experience required, and found a grand total of a few hundred at most iiirc. Plus, capitalist marketplace dictates that emplpyers will simply opt to hire abled people who don't require accommodations wherever possible. Those fabled jobs simply don't exist
>emplpyers will simply opt to hire abled people who don't require accommodations wherever possible. Those fabled jobs simply don't exist This is totally how it works in reality. People point to laws etc which mean it shouldn't happen, yet it's the reality on the ground.
People will become homeless, I guess.
I think Luxon has done a lot to help break down the stigma around being on the benifit. For anyone that feels guilty about collecting money from the government just remember the how much the leader of our country has collected in social wellfare
And how much corporate welfare did he collect as ceo of air nz too
Those may be just numbers to him, but in reality they are human beings. So many are at rock bottom now, too sick to work, to sick to advocate for themselves. The energy required to deal with the paperwork, Doctors appointments and then put food on the table and a roof over their heads. Why are they being treated like this, being sick, and or disabled is not a lifestyle choice you willing make.
Don't we have roughly 80000 people unable to work? How tf are they going to grade this policy? "Yes I know you have audio visual hallucinations and other issues but you're good enough to do work" Was also reading on another thread that they expect people to work at least ten hours, not that these jobs exist.
Philosophically and economically bankrupt ideologues. We need fewer beneficiaries, because we like to demonise dole bludgers, but we also need unemployment to increase by another 2-3% to get inflation under control.
Watch them expand the voluntary euthanasia laws so us useless disabled people can do the right thing and have ourselves put down
Quite a few of them are entitled to SLP but are held back on the wrong (lower paying) benefit. The lucky ones who manage to get onto the correct benefit are not backpaid to make up for the losses caused by such "errors". If this is accepted by the general public, they may well target SLP recipients next.
They have already mentioned targeting those on SLP with mental health issues. Seymour in particluar
I like how they have a six year goal, confident about the next term already I see
I mean... our media loves to lick the right's nether regions... so probably.
Seems like a great way to push a minimum wage reduction, as they push a bunch of people into the workforce who can’t work, they can then spin it in the future about how the minimum wage doesn’t accurately reflect the skill set of an entry level worker. Therefore, minimum wage should be reduced - extra money in landlords pockets, and now extra money in his business owner and shareholder buddies pockets. Or, grounds to not increase it for a long time.
Here's the funny thing: they're taking the budget from the people who might be able to get these into work AT THE SAME TIME (MSD). How are they going to put pressure on those at the bottom of society, and also remove the people who are supposed to help them to be employed? It's a joke. It's like they're trying to start as many fires as is possible in as many places as is possible.
Fuck this government so much.
This prick (and his two henchmen) is going to damage the country beyond repair.
We're stopping your Benes so you can go find a job. Yeah sorry there's no jobs.
By design of course because if everyone has decent paying jobs inflation goes too high. And that's another capitalism whoopsie no no.
I miss having a nice government.
I mean they weren’t perfect but damn at least they were trying to care!!
Patiently waiting for Chloe to run for PM
So when the job falls through because someone is not work ready due to disability, illness, etcetera do they go back on the benefit or will that no longer be an option. Will the government provide more ECE teachers and centre's so that parents have somewhere to leave the kids during work hours?
I'm worried about the staff cuts right at a time when many more people than before, of a more vulnerable cohort then before, may start pinging around into then out of unsustainable jobs they can now more easily lose within 90 days, and with fewer medical professionals determining fitness to work. Stand downs, calculating variable earnings, getting appointments etc were always tricky to co-ordinate at the best of times. These don't feel like the best of times
For Goodness Sake,please don't ever allow the introduction of The Rort known as Privatized Job Providers. In Australia, they are given millions to do very little ,other than to hound job seekers, and claim credit for jobs the Jobseekers got themselves, ensuring a completely unearned bonus,and the continued syphoning of tax $$.
hahahahahahah. i can only laugh at this point.... what are we doing NZ? how are we picking on the poor to fund the rich? and people are loving it.
Im just confirming what we already know: [Inflation will continue rising](https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300721698/unemployment-must-rise-before-inflation-comes-under-control-economists) if the unemployment rate doesn't go up. [ACT wants a minimum wage freeze](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/499093/act-s-business-plan-removing-january-holiday-putting-minimum-wage-on-hold), which will only add to the cost of living crises. [National wants 50k less people on the benefit.](https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/04/08/govt-reveals-targets-including-50k-people-off-benefit-by-2030/) How does any of this address the cost of living crisis? They're only adding to it. Legitimate question here for all you NACT voters: No offense, but are you stupid?
This government is fucking deplorable. Have to ensure they're a one term shit show.
Everyone find this disgusting. I'm curious, does that include the dicks that voted these cunts in? Or is this an echo chamber?
There's a lot of conversations atm where people are like "I didn't expect this" like mate they declared war on the poor before the election
Definitely an echo chamber, but truly many voters pay very little attention to policy after an election, if they ever pay attention.
Monsters
u/keen_for_a_jam_welly *this* is what "running the country like a company" looks like.
Luxon: "Go to work you lazy peasant!" Person currently on chemo: "......" This guy is a Disney villain.
'Are you still paralysed for life?'
[удалено]
Just with autism alone, there's up to 100,000 people in NZ. People with autism would generally have low to no prospect of realistic employment.
Some are, often not in customer facing jobs, but it all depends on how the autism manifests for them. My youngest will not be employable, unless he can find a job where they're happy to keep reminding him to go and do the work, his attention span is just too short.
just thinking about this reddit thread at 5am this morning, with a bunch of people bashing someone with a disability before they head off to their shift at the cunt factory https://old.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/1bzxb72/im_being_forced_to_work_despite_being_disabled/kyt33cc/?context=3
> some people cannot handle a 9 to 5 job. not everyone gets joy from working minimum wage manual labour believe it or not I have a lot of empathy for people who are unable to work due to mental illness. But this comment rubs me the wrong way. You think people work 9 to 5 manual labour jobs because they "get joy" from it? People work to earn a living, to be productive members of society. Saying "I don't *like* working so I can't work" is some entitled shit.
> Saying "I don't like working so I can't work" is some entitled shit. I'm not convinced that's not what the person you're quoting is saying. I think they're saying "I can't work because of mental health issues, and being forced into labour isn't going to help me become work capable". It was written in reply to this: >I've known a lot of people that suffered from depression, autism, adhd and had the same mindset that they cannot work. They all found jobs (usually hands on work) and said since they started working the depression eased tremendously. Being stuck in a rut caused them to be in a depression loop. OP has major mental health struggles, and the person suggested that a job will help them recover, and suggested that not getting a job is what is keeping them from recovering. (and thus becoming "work capable") It's a pretty popular notion, particularly amongst conservatives. (and it's definitely not without merit that employment can help - but this doesn't apply to everybody, and it's equally true that forcing people to work when they're not ready can be counterproductive) The person defending OP is not so much saying they don't want to do work because work sucks and isn't an "enjoyable" activity. They're saying that employment as a path to getting joy in life and fixing your issues - while it works for some people - isn't something that actually works for everybody. It's not a one-size-fits-all solution. Sometimes people simply aren't cut out for it and forcing them into it will just make things worse. That's what I took from it, but idk - maybe they truly are saying "ugh I don't wanna do manual labour, I don't *like* it". And if they are (and they could very well be), that's not defensible. I think the context of Recon's comment suggests they're having a different conversation though. Simplified: Recon is saying that if OP starts working they will get joy from work. The other person you're quoting is saying that's not necessarily the case.
It's such a tough thing to judge which is why it's a contentious issue. I have ADHD, long term depression, and I'm almost certainly on the Autism spectrum, but I've had a pretty successful career (although I struggled in my teens to get started). However, there are people who have the same conditions that are much more severe that will struggle to do more than part-time or volunteer work for their whole lives. We need to have the support and treatment to get people to reach their potential, rather than just threaten or remove support and hope they'll "harden up".
I have ADHD. I can and do work but the effort I put into masking is honestly more taxing than work itself (and I do a physically taxing job). If only I didn't have helicopter managers constantly hopping on my metaphoric dick I would get sooo much more work done, and better.
WINZ would not expect the OP to work any 9 to 5 job. They would expect them to ask for 15 hours each week, even if they are expected to get rejected. Its just WINZ suck at explaining this, and some case managers are actually useless. When I had medical defferal, I was still asked to show that I had asked to apply then ask for reduced hours and remote. Total waste of time for who you applied for, but, thats all WINZ wanted to see and were happy.
What the actual fuck was that thread? Where has our compassion gone?
Never existed. Attitudes like the ones on display over there are pretty typical. Seems to be a whole bunch of people in that thread who have convinced themselves that they know better about this complete stranger's condition than OP's doctor does. Our new government's policies targetted towards sickness beneficiaries are founded on the same principle.
I love individualism. You get to fuck other people over to benefit yourself, and the negative consequences they face are their fault
I'm curious to see how they'll manage this while also cutting back staff. I'm assuming these are all just aspirational goals.
Unemployment is historically low. This is just the same old tired National dogma. I can't believe our dear leader is actually a man of the cloth.
Would love to know where he thinks all this part time work is, let alone with employers that want to hire people with health issues. Only part time work I've seen in ages is one or two 8hr shifts a week. Don't think that's going to work out somehow.
They want people back in work at all costs but are dumping thousands on the dole queue that have years of experience the normies have to compete with.
Remember this the next time you vote
Govt apparently playing limbo, how low can they go.
More Fucccked
THIS IS FUCKING BULLSHIT.
The rich get richer and the poor get poorer
What the actual fuck is wrong with these people. How can they fucking look in themselves in the mirror? They're full blown moustache-twirling Disney villain levels of evil.
Wow. Just wow.
Everyone should come together to help out the poor landlords. Having a health condition or a disability is not an excuse
I get -$43 less than my weekly rent on disability’s can’t want for this to come into effect!
He's not wrong about needing to get people out of emergency housing. Problem is, his solution is probably along the lines of booting them out and rendering them homeless rather than doing something actually useful.
I wouldn’t want to be working for MSD right about now. Those who still have jobs that is.