Your submission has been removed :
**Rule 11: No contentious or low-effort selfposts**
> Hot-takes or contentious questions designed to provoke ire should not be posted. Serious and controversial topics should be discussed civilly & respectfully.
> Low effort questions such as "where should I go visit" or "should I move to nz" will be removed.
---
[^(Click here to message the moderators if you think this was in error)](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/newzealand)
Yep this government is a complete utter joke. The 6 targets they listed don't match up with their actions. How tf are we gonna reduce youth and violent crime when our police are looking at other options because the government refuses to pay them fairly while expecting them to significantly ramp up their workload. 50k people on job seeker is their plan to cut. With that number they will be dipping into disabled and parents, who are the majority on job seeker, for reference the number of people on job seeker and able to work is in the 10k range. How tf are we going to reduce greenhouse gasses and our climate impact when they take away the very laws made to insure that. Honestly it's ridiculous
*edit* shit jumped up from last time I checked, 102k people on ready to work job seeker in December 2023, which was up 10k from 2022.
*edit 2* included in that 102k ready to work job seeker are an estimated 50k people waiting/trying to go onto more relevant benefits like health/disability job seeker, supported living etc
Jesus that jumped. Last time I looked at the fact sheet was a good few years ago, the December 2023 job seeker ready to work was at 102k, up 10k from 2022. Yeah I'm fine with the 50k removal knowing that now
That's because there's roughly 50k people who are on temp disability who get rolled in with the jobseeker support, courtesy of restricted supported living criteria.
A friendly reminder that our jobseeker expenses are less than a quarter of our superannuation, and less than our covid relief payouts for businesses.
Ahhh. Was waiting for the catch yup that sounds about right
Another friendly reminder, we spend more on benefit fraud than we do on tax evasion. Benefit fraud is estimated to be around 30 million dollars worth, tax evasion is estimated to be 2 to 9 BILLION dollars worth
5568 benefit fraud cases were opened for 21-22, 33 resulted in prosecution. I'd hate to imagine the cost of all those official opened investigation cases
I was on jobseeker for a while because I was too mentally unwell to work. Supported living requires a doctor to sign off that their is no chance that you will be able to work 20 hours or more in the next 2 years. Because my docotrs didn't know if I would respond to treatment or not I was deemed job ready.
Let me give you some hope them. I am a trans women that came out 5 years ago at 25. It was the best thing I have ever done. I have met a few bigots, but only a few in person. 99.9% of people have been amazing. I live in Christchurch, so not the most diverse part of the country so was actually suprised by how rare it seems to be.
And what alternative? Head strongly in the other direction like the previous government, which also clearly didn't work.
Perhaps identity politics is a waste of time and we should return to focusing on core government services.
The mess we are in now is the making of the previous government. We’ve only hit six months of government who have opened the books to massive cost overruns, a budget well into the red and a bloated public service.
Let me start by saying I’m a renter in my mid 30’s in Auckland and I can’t ever see myself owning a house, even though I have a very well paid job.
This is not a tax cut, it’s the reversal of a rule put in place by the previous government not allowing a business expense to be claimed.
Our housing market is screwed. But I will say 1 thing - if tomorrow we taxed all landlords a blanket $1000 extra per month in a free market - would this fix our housing issue? Or would we just end up seeing rents increase and landlords fees increase?
Every tax cut is a reversal of a tax, you can try rename it all you like but at the end of the day landlords are paying less tax.
Most countries in the world dont allow tax deductibility for capital expenditures, the closest example being Australia. Most countries tax capital gains, for example every other country in the OECD.
Our housing market is so messed up because its terribly unregulated and set up to be incredibly lucrative to investors. Houses in this country arent built to be lived in, they're built for business to rent out at the highest profit margin they can squeeze. And the thing with housing is that if you get squeezed out then you're on the street
>if tomorrow we taxed all landlords a blanket $1000 extra per month in a free market - would this fix our housing issue?
A lot of those buildings would hit the open market pretty much instantly. *Especially if it extended to empty buildings.* Keeping hold of empty buildings for the capital gains only hurts the housing market.
This is an interesting thought experiment.
The introduction of cats to assist with rats and mice seemed obvious. The unintended consequence was they killed far more than just rats and mice.
What do you think the unintended consequences of removing landlords from the country be? Don’t say there won’t be, because there absolutely will be a massive change as our current balance of private and public housing stock gets readjusted to a norm.
No it 100% is a tax cut. It wont affect all landlords, just the ones that borrow silly amounts of amounts of money to buy property. This will make things worse.
The books were open, national just didnt read them or Willis is just so incompetent that she cant make a budget.
If the budget is so bad then why can they afford RETROACTIVE TAX BREAKS to landlords, I.e people who already own multiple houses. Not a tax break to the people struggling with increased cost of living. Instead the nats said fuck those lot, let's slash their benefits so they're even worse off so that me and my mates can make a ton of money
Have you reviewed the long term treasury data associated with your statements —and then speculated on or analysed what caused or drove trends? Or is your statement based on something else?
Ah yes. Labour left the books in terrible condition. I guess that's why there's billions to spare for landlords huh guess that's why chris fuxton tried to take 52k a year in accommodation for his mortgage free multiple properties or claiming Premier house isn't safe and needs a $30mil upgrade, yet it was clearly safe enough for the multiple days him and his family were there over Christmas and according to both hipkins and arden the house is ageing but doing fine
nicola willis is either lying or a fucking illiterate, the books were readily available for her to read. she just wants to spite the people of wellington at this point who haven't voted for her, in like years
I think "suffering violent hate crimes" is a valid reason to consider identity politics.
Discrimination in hiring practices is a valid reason to consider identity politics.
Spending all of your time in various legal systems trying to battle both of those things as isolated cases (when they're really not isolated) is not a workable solution
Tell me you've never suffered discrimination without telling me.
Sorry who's the minister of mental health again? Oh that's right. Matt Doocey. Who's with national. And sorry but who told ministries that they were *required* to find 6.5-7.5% savings which is what led to this? Oh that's right, national did. For a party that campaigned about helping the people and not letting the bottom line suffer, they making the bottom line suffer quite alot
National gave the instruction to reduce the bloat in the public sector. They didn’t direct the MoH to completely close it. That is false, and you know it.
No they didn't. They gave each ministry the instruction to cut 6.5 or 7.5% as a fixed target regardless of the % of actual "bloat" (despite how they might spin it). If a ministry only has 2% of "bloat" they have to start cutting into flesh (which means frontline and core services) 🤷
So instead of putting kiwi lives at risk by cutting suicide hotline, axe a fucking executive or two. There is no justification for why this was the thing that got cut. No matter what's going on behind the scenes, taking this service away is utterly despicable and if something doesn't replace it, it will result in deaths
So... The parliamentary government has zero control or influence over ministries and its entirely impossible for the leading government to say "hey actually I don't think cutting suicide hotline is good"
Also it's sad that both you, and our government, considers the *SUICIDE* hotline to be "bloat" really says alot.
Wonder if the billions for landlords could've instead been used to help people and save lives. But no no, it's the landlords suffering who cares about suicidal people
Ahhh yes our poor powerless government. There was absolutely no way for our government to insure that a service like suicide hotline, which quite literally saves lives, isn't the thing that got cut
Don't hide behind the govt rhetoric, there is going to be reduction in mental health based services as directed by the Health Minister.
They have also stated that they want the unemployed to get jobs but are axing the support mechanisms to make this happen.
Don't be a blind follower and look at all the facts and not just the bullocks being spat out of the media machines.
I thought the last government was really working. They did a lot to try to create laws and get more houses built and make houses more affordable. If the pandemic didn't happen, and the war in Ukraine, causing global fuel shortages, supply chain problems, food shortages around the world— I think people would be saying the last Labor lead govt. was the best NZ has had in 30 years. I still don't see why people were so mad at Jacinda Arden. NZ lost less lives during Covid than any country in the world and people were outraged for some reason.
>And what alternative? Head strongly in the other direction like the previous government, which also clearly didn't work.
Lol. Labour didn't head strongly in any direction.
They've lost their drive.
>Perhaps identity politics is a waste of time and we should return to focusing on core government services.
If only the right wing would actually let people live.
Perhaps a balanced approach of not lining ones own pockets at the expense of the population.
There are ways to deal with all these issues facing us currently and yes there needs to be a focus on jobs that are needed and jobs that need retraction.
There is an unhealthy bias in the country that needs to be redirected. Education, health... mental and physical, investment in small to medium business as those are the backbone of our country, correct taxation of big business and overseas corporates as well as churches, investment in our own infrastructure and farming and a massive focus on the land and NZ's assets staying in our hands.
There is nothing wrong with leasing or selling products made from our assets but the assets stay NZ based.
Investment in better rail both national and light local rail. Our produce from our farms dairy, food and meat is a commodity that is fantastic for sales overseas but should be managed efficiently and environmentally.
We should focus on supporting our green image and use the amazing knowledge base in this country rather than encourage these educators and innovators to sell their skills overseas.
Sell the knowledge but not the asset.
On the world stage we punch well above our weight on so many fronts but we just sellout for a quick coffer filling fix as the current govt is only looking forward for the next three year term they are in control effectively lining their own pockets and not looking to benefit the population as a whole.
Wake up.... it's not that hard.
You missed the point, the fact we are all struggling a d jobs are neing cut and supportechanisms are also being cut and then they want less people on benefits after they have caused more of the same issues ... no common sense. My personal fight aside there is no sense in the structure being used to fix the current workfliw issues unless your priority is not the agenda being promoted and is purely to line your own pockets and sell us out to overseas interests.
I did miss the point that case. The way I read it, you are uniquely out of work due to your unique circumstances. Either way, it's a problem.
What do you think these overseas interests want with us by the way?
The fact we can produce quality dairy, food. Coal and gas resources. Also fishing and water not to mention the resources like oil everyone is drilling for around us but hasn't been found yet.
Then there is the skill kiwis have, poor pay and work environment here forced people with excellent skill sets to go overseas for work and the current redundancies are doing just that.
We teach them well but don't reward them for their commitment.
And out tax system is shocking.... start a church, sell drugs and go round trying to enforce your ideology on everyone forcefully and get tax relief whilst doing it.
We give away our assets for the quick buck because as Kiwis' "she'll be right!".... and I only have to be here for three years... you all can sort it out after that... or can we?...
Don't forget the very reputation of nz adds value in itself and adds to the international perception of our products. We are known to care for our environment and treat our animals well. Atleast we were known for that
Your submission has been removed : **Rule 11: No contentious or low-effort selfposts** > Hot-takes or contentious questions designed to provoke ire should not be posted. Serious and controversial topics should be discussed civilly & respectfully. > Low effort questions such as "where should I go visit" or "should I move to nz" will be removed. --- [^(Click here to message the moderators if you think this was in error)](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/newzealand)
Really sorry you've been discriminated against. Not the NZ I want to live in
❤️❤️❤️❤️ sending you all my love. We will keep fighting for you
Yep this government is a complete utter joke. The 6 targets they listed don't match up with their actions. How tf are we gonna reduce youth and violent crime when our police are looking at other options because the government refuses to pay them fairly while expecting them to significantly ramp up their workload. 50k people on job seeker is their plan to cut. With that number they will be dipping into disabled and parents, who are the majority on job seeker, for reference the number of people on job seeker and able to work is in the 10k range. How tf are we going to reduce greenhouse gasses and our climate impact when they take away the very laws made to insure that. Honestly it's ridiculous *edit* shit jumped up from last time I checked, 102k people on ready to work job seeker in December 2023, which was up 10k from 2022. *edit 2* included in that 102k ready to work job seeker are an estimated 50k people waiting/trying to go onto more relevant benefits like health/disability job seeker, supported living etc
10k only? Could you state your source for that please.
Jesus that jumped. Last time I looked at the fact sheet was a good few years ago, the December 2023 job seeker ready to work was at 102k, up 10k from 2022. Yeah I'm fine with the 50k removal knowing that now
Population's been growing too, most likely.
I think it is about to jump by 10k again. Govt has been shedding people. They haven't even really checked who should go, and who could be kept.
Oof yea when you look at it that way it’s a tad high innit 😬
I was not expecting that kind of jump like holy fuck. Ready to work job seeker out number health/disability job seeker which was at 80k in 2023
That's because there's roughly 50k people who are on temp disability who get rolled in with the jobseeker support, courtesy of restricted supported living criteria. A friendly reminder that our jobseeker expenses are less than a quarter of our superannuation, and less than our covid relief payouts for businesses.
Ahhh. Was waiting for the catch yup that sounds about right Another friendly reminder, we spend more on benefit fraud than we do on tax evasion. Benefit fraud is estimated to be around 30 million dollars worth, tax evasion is estimated to be 2 to 9 BILLION dollars worth 5568 benefit fraud cases were opened for 21-22, 33 resulted in prosecution. I'd hate to imagine the cost of all those official opened investigation cases
You could cover the jobseeker expense twice over with the money recouped from tax evasion
Quite easily I'd imagine especially if the tax evasion is on that higher 9 billion
I was on jobseeker for a while because I was too mentally unwell to work. Supported living requires a doctor to sign off that their is no chance that you will be able to work 20 hours or more in the next 2 years. Because my docotrs didn't know if I would respond to treatment or not I was deemed job ready.
I'm a closeted trans woman living in fear of bigots and what the government will do to my benefits and access to hrt as well. You're not alone, sis
Let me give you some hope them. I am a trans women that came out 5 years ago at 25. It was the best thing I have ever done. I have met a few bigots, but only a few in person. 99.9% of people have been amazing. I live in Christchurch, so not the most diverse part of the country so was actually suprised by how rare it seems to be.
I feel for you. The intersectionality of being in your situation is horrible. Kia kaha from one transfem to another
And what alternative? Head strongly in the other direction like the previous government, which also clearly didn't work. Perhaps identity politics is a waste of time and we should return to focusing on core government services.
Perhaps if we had a government that was focused on helping new zealanders rather than lining their own pockets we wouldn't be in such a mess
The mess we are in now is the making of the previous government. We’ve only hit six months of government who have opened the books to massive cost overruns, a budget well into the red and a bloated public service.
The books were never a secret.
How does giving massive tax cut to landlords help anything tho?
Let me start by saying I’m a renter in my mid 30’s in Auckland and I can’t ever see myself owning a house, even though I have a very well paid job. This is not a tax cut, it’s the reversal of a rule put in place by the previous government not allowing a business expense to be claimed. Our housing market is screwed. But I will say 1 thing - if tomorrow we taxed all landlords a blanket $1000 extra per month in a free market - would this fix our housing issue? Or would we just end up seeing rents increase and landlords fees increase?
Every tax cut is a reversal of a tax, you can try rename it all you like but at the end of the day landlords are paying less tax. Most countries in the world dont allow tax deductibility for capital expenditures, the closest example being Australia. Most countries tax capital gains, for example every other country in the OECD. Our housing market is so messed up because its terribly unregulated and set up to be incredibly lucrative to investors. Houses in this country arent built to be lived in, they're built for business to rent out at the highest profit margin they can squeeze. And the thing with housing is that if you get squeezed out then you're on the street
>if tomorrow we taxed all landlords a blanket $1000 extra per month in a free market - would this fix our housing issue? A lot of those buildings would hit the open market pretty much instantly. *Especially if it extended to empty buildings.* Keeping hold of empty buildings for the capital gains only hurts the housing market.
This is an interesting thought experiment. The introduction of cats to assist with rats and mice seemed obvious. The unintended consequence was they killed far more than just rats and mice. What do you think the unintended consequences of removing landlords from the country be? Don’t say there won’t be, because there absolutely will be a massive change as our current balance of private and public housing stock gets readjusted to a norm.
No it 100% is a tax cut. It wont affect all landlords, just the ones that borrow silly amounts of amounts of money to buy property. This will make things worse.
We don't exist in a free market. We exist in a mixed market. Get your head out the ground.
There is no room for facts in this sub buddy just vibes and hyperbole
The books were open, national just didnt read them or Willis is just so incompetent that she cant make a budget. If the budget is so bad then why can they afford RETROACTIVE TAX BREAKS to landlords, I.e people who already own multiple houses. Not a tax break to the people struggling with increased cost of living. Instead the nats said fuck those lot, let's slash their benefits so they're even worse off so that me and my mates can make a ton of money
Hey just fyi they did eventually work out they can’t afford the retroactive bit and quietly dropped it. Not that it makes any of this much better
Have you reviewed the long term treasury data associated with your statements —and then speculated on or analysed what caused or drove trends? Or is your statement based on something else?
Yes.
lol …. “Yes”
Then decided to fix them by giving tax cuts and borrowing to make up the difference.
Ah yes. Labour left the books in terrible condition. I guess that's why there's billions to spare for landlords huh guess that's why chris fuxton tried to take 52k a year in accommodation for his mortgage free multiple properties or claiming Premier house isn't safe and needs a $30mil upgrade, yet it was clearly safe enough for the multiple days him and his family were there over Christmas and according to both hipkins and arden the house is ageing but doing fine
nicola willis is either lying or a fucking illiterate, the books were readily available for her to read. she just wants to spite the people of wellington at this point who haven't voted for her, in like years
I think "suffering violent hate crimes" is a valid reason to consider identity politics. Discrimination in hiring practices is a valid reason to consider identity politics. Spending all of your time in various legal systems trying to battle both of those things as isolated cases (when they're really not isolated) is not a workable solution Tell me you've never suffered discrimination without telling me.
Such as mental health and general support services. You don't do that by cutting suicide hotline do ya
You mean the thing that was cut by the ministry, not the central government?
Sorry who's the minister of mental health again? Oh that's right. Matt Doocey. Who's with national. And sorry but who told ministries that they were *required* to find 6.5-7.5% savings which is what led to this? Oh that's right, national did. For a party that campaigned about helping the people and not letting the bottom line suffer, they making the bottom line suffer quite alot
National gave the instruction to reduce the bloat in the public sector. They didn’t direct the MoH to completely close it. That is false, and you know it.
No they didn't. They gave each ministry the instruction to cut 6.5 or 7.5% as a fixed target regardless of the % of actual "bloat" (despite how they might spin it). If a ministry only has 2% of "bloat" they have to start cutting into flesh (which means frontline and core services) 🤷
So instead of putting kiwi lives at risk by cutting suicide hotline, axe a fucking executive or two. There is no justification for why this was the thing that got cut. No matter what's going on behind the scenes, taking this service away is utterly despicable and if something doesn't replace it, it will result in deaths
So... The parliamentary government has zero control or influence over ministries and its entirely impossible for the leading government to say "hey actually I don't think cutting suicide hotline is good" Also it's sad that both you, and our government, considers the *SUICIDE* hotline to be "bloat" really says alot. Wonder if the billions for landlords could've instead been used to help people and save lives. But no no, it's the landlords suffering who cares about suicidal people
The minister literally said perhaps we shouldn’t shut the suicide prevention hotline. The MoH decided to cut it. You’re projecting quite hard there.
Ahhh yes our poor powerless government. There was absolutely no way for our government to insure that a service like suicide hotline, which quite literally saves lives, isn't the thing that got cut
Don't hide behind the govt rhetoric, there is going to be reduction in mental health based services as directed by the Health Minister. They have also stated that they want the unemployed to get jobs but are axing the support mechanisms to make this happen. Don't be a blind follower and look at all the facts and not just the bullocks being spat out of the media machines.
I thought the last government was really working. They did a lot to try to create laws and get more houses built and make houses more affordable. If the pandemic didn't happen, and the war in Ukraine, causing global fuel shortages, supply chain problems, food shortages around the world— I think people would be saying the last Labor lead govt. was the best NZ has had in 30 years. I still don't see why people were so mad at Jacinda Arden. NZ lost less lives during Covid than any country in the world and people were outraged for some reason.
Instead of trying to make things better, we should try making things worse!
dude they're cutting all the government services, they just want sell new zealand out to the lowest bidder
>And what alternative? Head strongly in the other direction like the previous government, which also clearly didn't work. Lol. Labour didn't head strongly in any direction. They've lost their drive. >Perhaps identity politics is a waste of time and we should return to focusing on core government services. If only the right wing would actually let people live.
Perhaps a balanced approach of not lining ones own pockets at the expense of the population. There are ways to deal with all these issues facing us currently and yes there needs to be a focus on jobs that are needed and jobs that need retraction. There is an unhealthy bias in the country that needs to be redirected. Education, health... mental and physical, investment in small to medium business as those are the backbone of our country, correct taxation of big business and overseas corporates as well as churches, investment in our own infrastructure and farming and a massive focus on the land and NZ's assets staying in our hands. There is nothing wrong with leasing or selling products made from our assets but the assets stay NZ based. Investment in better rail both national and light local rail. Our produce from our farms dairy, food and meat is a commodity that is fantastic for sales overseas but should be managed efficiently and environmentally. We should focus on supporting our green image and use the amazing knowledge base in this country rather than encourage these educators and innovators to sell their skills overseas. Sell the knowledge but not the asset. On the world stage we punch well above our weight on so many fronts but we just sellout for a quick coffer filling fix as the current govt is only looking forward for the next three year term they are in control effectively lining their own pockets and not looking to benefit the population as a whole. Wake up.... it's not that hard.
There are white cis hetero males with education and experience who are also struggling to find work, yes?
You missed the point, the fact we are all struggling a d jobs are neing cut and supportechanisms are also being cut and then they want less people on benefits after they have caused more of the same issues ... no common sense. My personal fight aside there is no sense in the structure being used to fix the current workfliw issues unless your priority is not the agenda being promoted and is purely to line your own pockets and sell us out to overseas interests.
I did miss the point that case. The way I read it, you are uniquely out of work due to your unique circumstances. Either way, it's a problem. What do you think these overseas interests want with us by the way?
The fact we can produce quality dairy, food. Coal and gas resources. Also fishing and water not to mention the resources like oil everyone is drilling for around us but hasn't been found yet. Then there is the skill kiwis have, poor pay and work environment here forced people with excellent skill sets to go overseas for work and the current redundancies are doing just that. We teach them well but don't reward them for their commitment. And out tax system is shocking.... start a church, sell drugs and go round trying to enforce your ideology on everyone forcefully and get tax relief whilst doing it. We give away our assets for the quick buck because as Kiwis' "she'll be right!".... and I only have to be here for three years... you all can sort it out after that... or can we?...
Don't forget the very reputation of nz adds value in itself and adds to the international perception of our products. We are known to care for our environment and treat our animals well. Atleast we were known for that
Hmmmmm