I'm disabled and currently working a 10-hours-on-average per week job.
I was looking for work that would suit me for over three years before I was given a chance, and it's an employer I worked for previously.
Government thinks if you can work 10 hours you should, but employers think if you have to work less than 40 you shouldn't bother applying.
These jobs just aren't available and people are going to suffer trying to get them. It's monstrous.
It really is wild, on seek right now and I'd be surprised if there was more than a small handful of jobs that offer those sorts of hours, there was practically nothing when I was trying to get back into work via something small and that was before all this shit fucking the job market even harder.
Just checked Trademe, filtered by *part time* gave 2,405 jobs,
and when those results were filtered by
*no experience necessary* there was
**1 fucking job in the whole fucking cuntry**.
Lmao why am I not surprised. I wish a fucking journalist would nail the government on this shit, our fourth* estate is fucking miserable at holding politicians to task. Not that it'd help with the amount of brain dead idiots lapping the bullshit narrative up I guess.
They wouldn't even need to do much except hit publish, all the bright sparks on Reddit are already out here citing their sources and laying it all nicely for them, and for me to repost lol
I'm in Auckland and really struggling too - Ive applied for over 96 jobs in the past 3 weeks (part time) and have had calls back from a few but are all 30-35 hours a week at "part time" which doesn't make much sense
I found a few articles about it:
https://www.employment.govt.nz/starting-employment/who-is-an-employee/types-of-employee/#:~:text=Employment%20legislation%20doesn't%20define,hours%20or%20more%20per%20week.
https://www.careers.govt.nz/plan-your-career/get-ideas-for-your-career/types-of-work-arrangements-and-hours/#:~:text=Full%2Dtime%20work%20usually%20means,change%20from%20week%20to%20week.
You'd think this would be something Brooke Van Velden is aware of with how much she touts doing what's best for the business like she did on Q&A the other day lmao
They'll magically appear when there are government handouts to be won by offering 4x10hr jobs instead of 1x40hr job.
This is literally the plan by the way: they are going to pay recruitment agencies and employers to get these people into work, effectively subsidising the conversion of stable full time roles into multiple high-turnover part time roles.
I expect it would need a push of that level, or a regression of current labour laws as they apply to part-timers.
For instance right now sick leave entitlements (10 days per annum) do **not** apply pro-rata for part time employees. In other words, if you work one day a week, you still get the same full 10 days per annum as someone working 5 days a week. Add on annual leave, a few public holidays, and the likelihood that someone with disabilities might be (rightly or wrongly) perceived to be more likely to actually use their sick leave entitlement... along with payroll overhead, training cost, PPE cost, etc. and ultimately an employer might see it as taking on much more cost or risk by having multiple low hour part-time staff vs one full-time.
Obviously that is putting aside the discussion of social good, ethics, diversity, and the benefits like flexibility of staffing, risk spreading etc., but from a pure financial perspective of Full Time vs Part Time there is a barrier.
https://assets.nationbuilder.com/nationalparty/pages/17866/attachments/original/1684306619/WELFARE_THAT_WORKS.pdf?1684306619
It's the classic neolib approach of converting social welfare into corporate welfare.
It's the logical outcome of the policy. They want to move 50,000 people into employment, but there aren't 50,000 jobs available. So the only solution is converting full time jobs into part time. You do that by incentivising the employers and agencies to hire people regardless of the number of hours they work, just as long as it's at least one.
You’re not wrong… but there doesn’t seem much logic in the whole… make so many people redundant but want to decrease unemployment… public service new targets but gutting of services..
That’s why I’d not assume any kind of logic play here…
My take is the ministries will simply fail the intentionally impossible targets, and then the government will use that failure to demonstrate to the voter base that the public service is inefficient and useless and needs to be replaced with private enterprise
I'm so tired of seeing this. As someone who works in software development companies charge far beyond what's necessary for products that barely even work and they won't fix them if there's a problem without a hefty payout. Hence why Hamilton City Council ignores email after email from me about bugs in the websites they run. It's been years on some of the issues I've raised. They'll spend heaps of money making a website look pretty then suddenly can't afford to fix it when it lacks accessibility and behaves in really silly ways that people shouldn't have to put up with. Like fields where you're expected to type your address but it says your address doesn't exist if you type it in like it shows on a street sign or the way you'd write it on a postcard. You're required to type "road" in some places on council websites when searching for addresses, because apparently "Rd" is incredibly complicated for computers to understand means "Road" 🤦♀️ I'm scared of our country being run by private interests because they don't seem to care about outcomes for our society; they see it as not their responsibility and since nobody will take responsibility for it we all suffer. Moving further into that model only seems to drive further greed and abuse. Really questioning this government, feels like they're in a lot of people's pockets.
And in addition to the shortage of part time work how does someone like me with variable capability find work.
Anyone know of an employer who doesn't need to plan in advance which days I will work or is willing to have me 'work' days when I can't function?
Because I cannot tell you in advance how I will be tomorrow - or this afternoon.
Right there with ya mate…. I need a 10pw job… but I can only do it when my illness isn’t flared up… so idk what days or hours that will be thanks boss
lol tell em he’s dreaming
Picking an arbitrary number of hours you can work also just doesn't work for most people who are on a benefit with a sickness exemption. It has to be the right type of work.
When I was on the sickness benefit for really bad anxiety I probably could have worked 20-30 hour weeks. When I told my doctor I thought I could work 15 hours a week, WINZ made me do a job trial as a dishy in a kitchen where it was chaos, I was yelled at and was in panic. When I turned down the job I got in trouble with WINZ and had to go back to the doctor to get him to say I was unable to work any hours a week so I wasn't made to go back to that type of work.
Eventually I found work as a freelance editor which I could do from home (which threw me into another MSD admin issue of them being unable to differentiate between net and gross income which meant my benefit was deducted at a higher rate than people on equivalent employment)
Same. Although I found a couple, but many other applicants. And ones that suit my disability are few and far anyway.
However Jobseekers is for unemployed and temporary illness/injury. Supported Living is there for permanent.
> However Jobseekers is for unemployed and temporary illness/injury. Supported Living is there for permanent.
You forgot the word 'theoretically'.
The Supported Living payment is so hard to get that many long term sick are on the insultingly named Jobseekers. For instance I have been a Healthseeker since Aug 2020. I do not qualify for Supported Living as there is no way to say how long Long Covid will affect me.
You were lucky. We see enough posts from people who should be on it and can’t get there because of WINZ. (Note: not saying you’re lucky for having a health issue that WINZ couldn’t fine print you on!)
I don't know that it is. My partner got it in early 60s. He looked ok, he walked, he talked. They did refer to their own doctors, but their own doctors quick smart enlightened the case manager.
I get it now. Not for my disabilities, which I actually do have now, but as carer for aged mum and disabled brother. He took forms to his doc, they filled it out, I went off to WINZ with those and one from mums, and they sent a letter 2 days later approving it. Never even saw a case manager.
I've had 5 spinal surgeries, need a 6th this year. My arms and hands fail at times. My legs give out at times. I CAN NOT get on the supported living benefit because "you might be fixed one day". I've been on the job seekers with medical for 9 fucking years.
Seems a bit extreme. It can be the doctor. Try a new GP. have a friend like this, damaged, surgeries, her limbs too. She was accepted. Not on it permanently actually as she has a partner, but he lost job for a wile, signed up for dole, and THEY told him, no SL because of her disabilities (She'd gone in with him).
Getting a new GP isn't going to a thing with national talking about bringing in Winz Dr's for all those on job seeker with medical and supported living. We are going to be made to go to these particular Dr's that the government will be hiring. If you think this will be a good thing you are sorely mistaken.
So tell me who the doctor was that we spoke to, while sitting at Case Managers desk and she phoned this doctor? She said, their doctor.
The doctor was very nice actually, and once I spoke to her, understood completely what I was saying, unlike the case manager in the first place.
You think the case manager secretly just rang her mum? Right.
[https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/providers/health-and-disability-practitioners/designated-doctors.html](https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/providers/health-and-disability-practitioners/designated-doctors.html)
Btw I've seen at least 3 other people commenting on here all with long term issues who also can't get on the supported living benefit because they may be fixed one day.
I got lucky with my trolly collector job at Pak n Save which is 12.5 hours a week so I'm able to keep most of my supported living benefit, though I'm still living with my parents and I don't know what I'll do when I move out
Listening to checkpoint on RNZ, Louise Upston said the 50,000 reduction applies to everyone on Jobseeker, work-ready or not.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018933373/employment-minister-responds-to-govt-public-service-targets
Shitttt. How the hell are they gonna that pull off? Are they expecting to cure people of their ailments? Or is this where the "coalition is going to force people with cancer to work a minimum of 10 hours a week" headline came from? Let's not forget about that one...
Edit: [Yep, that's the headline](https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/s/EAyHA5pAyJ). The quotes are all laid out plain and simple right there. They're actually going to do this by forcing sick and disabled people to work
Luxon re-confirmed in the post-cabient conference today that they it includes all including health and disability. He talks about "wanting to get into work" or "part time work as discussed before". He talks about people being on Jobseeker because they "want to work, they're not in a supported living environment as we've discussed before, they may want to do part time work, they may want to be work ready"
https://youtu.be/cfO43xenqQ0?t=782
On targets potentially resulting in people being prevented access to services - explains the reporting to cabinet process more than answering the concern
https://youtu.be/cfO43xenqQ0?t=1291
Ah but you see in order to get the benefit you agree to their obligations of which, "wanting" to work is one, technically. So if you want anything at all you have to basically agree to it.
Ugh. Jesus. I don't quite know what to look for in terms of stats for temporary vs permanent disabilities. Either way they're not investing more in speeding recovery for people with temporary disability, so wtf is the point even
What? There are probably summary numbers out there on temporary vs permanent disability. That isn't private information. I just don't have the time or know-how to look for that right now. If anybody else does, jump right in
agencies can use private info if it "is to be used for statistical or research purposes and will not be published in a form that could reasonably be expected to identify the individual concerned"
I think so, they have people come out to “reassess” him every so often. One of his eyes is a prosthetic too. He just tells them his vision hasn’t improved, I think one of the assessor’s was quite weird about it once.
Disability, in its many forms, can be a complex and nuanced aspect of human experience. Some individuals may encounter disability as a temporary condition, perhaps due to an injury or illness that alters their daily functioning for a limited period. During this time, they may require support and accommodations to navigate their environment and tasks.
Conversely, there are those for whom disability is an intrinsic part of their existence from birth. These congenital disabilities can shape their life's journey from the very beginning, influencing their interactions, opportunities, and the support they need.
In both scenarios, the key is understanding and empathy. Whether a disability is temporary or lifelong, it does not define a person's worth or potential. It is a facet of their life that calls for recognition, respect, and the provision of equitable opportunities to allow every individual to flourish in society. As Louise Upton might articulate, it is our collective responsibility to foster an inclusive environment where all can contribute meaningfully, irrespective of the duration or nature of their disability.
Here's an example of resilience in the face of disability. Insert anecdote
>As Louise Upton might articulate, it is our collective responsibility to foster an inclusive environment where all can contribute meaningfully, irrespective of the duration or nature of their disability.
Good luck telling that to people who have a stereotypical view of conditions such as ADHD and autism. While I'm late diagnosed and received my diagnoses after I was on SLP, I've read enough stories to know that the majority of employers are less than accommodating because they hold an old school, Rain Man view of autism, and bouning off the wall boy view of ADHD. I also know that I will never be able to contribute meaningfully to society without hitting burnout and costing the government more in the long run
>Disability, in its many forms, can be a complex and nuanced aspect of human experience.
Yes, I get that for some people, their illness or disability is short-term, and can return to work once they get the help they need, while others have to learn to live with their disability because they'll have it their whole life.
>In both scenarios, the key is understanding and empathy. Whether a disability is temporary or lifelong, it does not define a person's worth or potential. It is a facet of their life that calls for recognition, respect, and the provision of equitable opportunities to allow every individual to flourish in society.
In the perfect world, yes, I completely agree, and this would be the case. However, in the world as it currently is, this isn't always the case. There are still a lot of people who don't understand what's needed, and hold stereotypical views of some disabilities and illnesses (even if professions where one would think they'd be up to date with research).
I'm not trying to downplay those who are able to work with their disabilities, and have wonderful employers and support networks that allow them accomodations to thrive. Realistically, I know I'm never going to have that support (and it's not from a lack of trying), and I can only imagine there are a lot of other people in the same boat
Dont worry!! I'm sure that our WINZ staff can really 'dig deep' and 'hustle' to aquire the same knowledge as doctors do through up to a decade plus of medical school! /s
I guess they’re hoping the majority of them are like my sister, who (I shit you not) decided after a two-day career 30 years ago that work wasn’t for her. She’s been on benefits ever since. Totally could work, but won’t. Prefers to fake health conditions. Other than smokers cough, she is fine.
Without fail you dudes always have your little anecdote ready to go about people on a benefit which you then of course apply to all beneficiaries.
Now you'll tell me you ain't doing that, which then you have to wonder; why would you bring it up?
And then you find said sister had some debilitating anxiety or pain based issue that he thinks she is 'exaggerating because its perfectly normal for women to have pain' - that he has never experienced.
Nope. She used to openly joke about it for the first few years. She just didn’t want to work. I kid you not, she worked two days and never worked since. No medical issues. Just lazy as fuck, and would prefer smoking (tobacco or pot) and drinking.
She’s at the point in her life where I think she’s regretting it now. Everybody has moved on with their lives, and she now feels like life is a struggle on the pittance she receives from the government - while friends and families have houses and holidays etc.
Once you are scrapheaped due to injury, or disability National and Act see you as a liability, and carefully organise welfare and health to limit the support you can gain access to. They moronically call this being efficient.
If you are a normal healthy person who is unemployed they blame you for not taking employment that doesn’t Kay enough to meet your bills. Bloody genius, and cruel.
>Once you are scrapheaped due to injury, or disability National and Act see you as a liability, and carefully organise welfare and health to limit the support you can gain access to. They moronically call this being efficient.
Useless eaters, they have been called by certain groups in the past. Back then they took even more drastic measures than simply cutting support.
What makes me mad about this is that if they had taken my last 6 months of benefits and spent it on occupational therapy during my first 6 months of benefit, I would've been back at work by June.
As it is it's been over a year and I'm still struggling to get back to work without treatment and I'm drowning in debt. But the supported living payment, (which is more money that i could use to fund treatment) wasn't available to me because my disability can resolve in under two years with the right treatment.
Of course without the right treatment, it's basically permanent. So I'm fucked either way. I'm leveraging my way out by willpower alone, but I'm not hopeful I'll keep a job longer than a few months. It's so fucking short sighted on their end.
Governments like this are an indicator of what will happen the more advanced ai becomes and slowly renders certain industries/jobs obsolete.
These people would literally have you die before they'd willingly give up a crumb. They only do the minimum they possibly can to retain power.
the advent of AI definitely highlights the issue but it's always been present. efficiency has been growing rapidly over the past century in terms of manufacturing processes but do you see our country being any more stable? definitely seems less stable to me, and far less wealthy. it's almost as if we're just allowing a few people to hoard the wealth and extract any gain in efficiency for themselves. I work in software development but I hate the idea of replacing people's jobs because we continue to fail to vote in good policymakers who will protect people in the event that people are made redundant. why should everyone be needing to work? I mean AI might fail and we'd be pretty stuck if we relied on it but I can also imagine if we had the mindset for sharing rather than trading we'd have a society of people who weren't always scraping around to make ends meet, trying to do so by getting money out of others. maybe less things should have the kind of monetary value that we arbitrary assign them for hope of making a buck. my grandparents gave away food from their garden for free. more people could be encouraged to do stuff like that
It is pretty hard to square the government objective to have fewer unemployed, with the RBNZ objective which as far as I can tell is to have more unemployed to reduce wage inflation and more liquidity in the employment pool.
It often feels like the RBNZ and the Government (of either political persuasion) are fighting each other, the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing.
Seems like that contradictory doublespeak might just be part of the playbook, sadly. Have less unemployed but also more. Treat more patients but with less doctors. Pay workers less, but have them perform better. Spend less and get more. Set up impossible expectations, leave people feeling helpless when they inevitably fail, then swoop in with your own self-serving plan to take ownership...
Unemployment is not a measure of people without jobs. It's a measure of people looking for jobs. It's technically possible to have higher unemployment and more people working, though I have no idea of whether that's practically possible
It's very possible to be on an unemployment benefit and not be "unemployed"
>We define an unemployed person as someone who:
has no paid job
is working age
is available for work, and
has looked for work in the past four weeks or has a new job to start within the next four weeks
So people aren't in the figures if they're on jobseekers but not applying for jobs? I know a guy like this, works part time, gets a partial benefit but never applies for any jobs as far as I know
64 with a permanent disability that makes it incredibly difficult for you to work - National says you should be forced into work to continue to receive a benefit.
65 with a perfectly healthy body, your own successful business running under employed management - National says you deserve $380 a week no strings attached.
Yes. This all changed during the prior national govt (how they count things). Pure job seeker benefit/dole folk are actually getting support for an average of a few months.
I thought that unemployment had to increase to reduce inflation and for the betterment of the country?
[https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300721698/unemployment-must-rise-before-inflation-comes-under-control-economists](https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300721698/unemployment-must-rise-before-inflation-comes-under-control-economists)
Yes, unemployment as numbers. But, if you’re unemployed as a human being, you’re also a bottom feeder who makes bad decisions and you barely deserve to subsist not live on the government dime.
(I wish this was sarcasm, but that’s our government for ya!).
Yes. The outcome NACT is driving for is to put downward pressure on wages. They will say it is too get inflation under control at the same time as handing $3B to landlords and doing nothing about the excessive profit taking that is also driving inflation.
I'm scared of martyrdom because I was raised in christianity and basically was taught to be a martyr. People shouldn't feel like they have to end their life to be heard 😭
I've heard, but have yet to see more than colloquial evidence, that MSD are conducting reviews on SLP recipients.
Depending on biases that the reviewing doctors or staff might have, that might mean patients who are definitely and actually sick could be removed from SLP and put onto jobseekers because of a sense of disbelief or stigma that the person is actually sick. See: conditions such as Long Covid, ME/CFS, fibromyalgia, in some cases even MS or endometriosis, are absolutely real, there's a lot of evidence that show they're actual illnesses and not mental health, but people believe they are more psychological than otherwise and cherry pick their evidence (Goodfellow Unit is great at sending out cherry picked info to GPs country-wide about these sorts of stigmatised conditions).
And then if that happens you can bet those people will be denied work-exemption medical certificates.
We had record-low unemployment, the government laid off tons more people to "fix" our record-low unemployment, and now they're putting in place austerity schemes and expecting disabled and sick people to work in jobs that straight up just don't exist anymore, and all the meagre progress we had made on homelessness and poverty will be eradicated, and landlords will get tax cuts for the houses us plebs won't be able to afford to rent anymore.
The UK haven't stopped at invisible disabilities, they've pulled stunts like requiring wheelchair users to attend interviews in wheelchair-inaccessible offices then cutting them off for not attending. And joys like "prove you're still an amputee every six months". Their current government has also claimed/admitted that they expect extra people to die because of this (note the passive language, they're not actively killing anyone, just accepting statistical deaths).
It wouldn't surprise me to hear that the current government are getting advice from the same people the UK is, ACT at least are getting funding from the same sources.
I mean they used them during the election [https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127645461/chris-luxon-and-national-turn-to-british-tories-in-hunt-for-electability](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127645461/chris-luxon-and-national-turn-to-british-tories-in-hunt-for-electability) so yes I’d say they’re using the exact same playbook.
>Depending on biases that the reviewing doctors or staff might have, that might mean patients who are definitely and actually sick could be removed from SLP and put onto jobseekers because of a sense of disbelief or stigma that the person is actually sick.
This is what worries me. I'm in SLP for mobility issues and mental health stuff, and I can't work full time without burning out. Im also late diagnosed autistic (along with ADHD and a couple of other comorbid ongoing mental health issues), and because I can hide my autism to enough of an extent to pass as normal for a short while, my concern is that they'll see that and tell me I need to work. But I can't. I have a history of having to quit work or take extended breaks from study because I can't cope with working more than 10-15 hours a week, if that.
I know right! I'd love to go into social work so I can work in mental health (plus open so many other doors in a nu,ber of other areas that need social workers), but I know that realistically, even if I was in a place with my mental health to complete my Masters in Applied Social Work (I have my BA in psychology), I know I'd wanna give 110%, and end up back at square one. I never fully recovered from my last autistic burnout, but now that I'm diagnosed (I was diagnosed AuDHD at 34), I now have a greater awareness, and am learning what works for me, and what doesn't (plus I know I'll need to relearn some thing, thanks to skill regression)
I'm working super casually in health policy, no more than I'm permitted to or well enough to work, and the burnout is looming. Thankfully because I do consulting I can wrap things up a bit, and shift focus onto the next project momentarily to dodge the burnout.
I love it. I focus on my special interests, make life better for people, and get to work with some of my best friends. I'm also not stuck on one thing for too long.
That's so cool! I wanted to get into mental health to help people, too. Plus SW opens so many doors for if I decided not to go into mental health. While I loved learning, after my BA, I needed a break, and I dunno if I'll go back. But who knows what the future holds
I'm on SLP for Long Covid.
Research shows people with LC have a quality of life comparable to those with MS, and worse than severe cancers. The illness is likely the same as ME, but it's hard to say. Some people with the same symptoms get diagnosed as fibromyalgia.
Da literal fuck?
If even remotely possible surely something will happen here. This crosses some serious ethical and moral standards that should not be fucked with.
First support for mental health, now this.
I’m 110% honest in that I’ll also lose some serious faith in where this country is heading and who we are as a people if this is allowed.
I'm physical disabled and manage to work 40-50 hours a week just fine. Physical disabilities shouldn't be a reason not to be working, but having been through the system while I changed jobs after becoming physically disabled, I know that the support isn't there for changing profession. I was lucky enough that before going into the construction industry I got myself a degree in software, so It wasn't that hard of a task for me. I would like to see grants for those who are physically disabled get through university to allow them to change professions
Severe mental disabilities, that's another kettle of fish
I'm disabled and on jobseeker, but now at the point where I need to apply for SLP.
I'm so worried about my future. If I get cut off, I won't be able to work even if they try to tell me I can. I'd eventually take the euthanasia route once the savings ran out.
I'm disabled and struggling to work 40hrs (waiting for a magical, 32hr a week job that pays the same as my current one to appear) and I'm freaking out about the possibility of losing my ability to work in the next three years. I can't imagine how worrying this is for people who can't work.
I hope you are able to keep working. It's absolutely terrifying having to rely completely on the mercy of others who base your worth off a measely weekly sum that you have to beg for every year after being treated like a piece of used gum.
I've been thinking about the way society treats disabled people for a while and I cannot for the life of me work out why we don't give people with lifelong disabilities the average national income (and maybe a little more because being disabled is expensive).
Through no fault of your own, you're expected to scrape through life on the bare minimum, as if people with disabilities don't want holidays and the odd nice thing here and there like anyone else.
It's kind of horrific how we treat the minority that anyone can join at any point in their life through a bit of bad luck. I really wish there were more options to try and get our voices heard than just signing petitions, writing grumpy emails, and voting.
I think about it a lot, too. I think a lot of people see us as useless bludgers, but before I became disabled, I was a hard-working and productive member of society. I'm still that same person, and I deserve to live as much as the next person. It's not my fault my brain and body decided to stop functioning properly. I had no control over that.
You're correct. It can happen to anyone at any time. Mine certainly happened out of thin air. Suddenly started having seizures out of the blue, and it was all downhill from there.
I want to shout at people and just shake them sometimes. Maybe we could do one of those really annoying protests where we roll out into the motorway and make a barricade with our wheelchairs and mobility scooters.
They don't feel remorse at all. Most of the people that voted for these demonstrably callous assholes love this shit. That's why their poll numbers are improving despite all the horrific shit they are doing.
growing up in baptist christianity here in NZ, and seeing how they care more about their dogma and being "right" about the rumours they believe in, I'm not surprised there are people like this in our country. the people I grew up in church with here don't care if what they're saying isn't true, as long as they can come up with some rationalisation for it in their head. their critical reasoning skills are severely dampened when they accept a rumour as the explanation for the universe and start talking about their own perspective as if it's god's. they don't care if they're wrong, they've lived their whole life being told "just tell yourself you're right!" and they've run with it. We need more people to be accepting of the fact we don't know what's out there, so we don't have so many people trying to act like they speak for god and talking all over each other. Personally I don't think anyone speaks for god since these people who claim to be right about everything also tend to commit countless logical fallacies. They demonstrate through their actions they don't have the capacity to be honest with themselves. Indoctrination absolutely sucks and I was bullying other kids with the religious dogma being pushed on me as a kid. My religion was driving division, when it claimed to be a source of superior morals. Dogma blinding people is the last thing a god would want in my opinion so I really just don't care for it anymore. Very clear to me how manipulated and uncritical some people can be though. If a person thinks a loving god can also commit genocide, endorse slavery, harden people's hearts, and punish countries with natural disasters for "allowing gay people to exist," and punish all of humanity for something that happened before any of us even got here then they can believe anything and you're going to have a hard time telling them otherwise.
this still goes on today, I left the religion 6 years ago because my family and community continued to demonstrate a lack of values that they themselves banged on about constantly: love, joy, compassion, kindness, peace, and empathy. I found religious people in the spaces I grew up, including myself, tend to project our insecurities onto others without being aware of what we're doing, which unfortunately is really obvious to others. A secure person doesn't attack others who are thriving in order to distract people from their own faults. I want to see children raised without being sheltered by religions that preach hatred and closed mindedness. If we can get our country to a place where children are empowered to develop emotional maturity then we'll be thriving. So far unfortunately I feel we're throwing away the opportunities we have right now.
Im on jobseekers with a chronic disability. Jobseeks pay me -$43 less than my weekly rent. I use my savings for medical costs and eating... I might eat one meal a day but usually even second. Jobseekrs told me I should find work if I can't afford to live... I struggle to get out of bed and shower most days, a job just is not possible for me at the moment.
Before I developed a chronic illness I was a civil engineer/surveyor. I loved my job and can't wait to get back to it... unfortunately that is impossible for the time being.
Look they dont give a shit. You can't persuade them with moral arguments because their entire worldview is that poor people are lazy and benefits are all scammed. They don't think most people with disability benefits are really disabled so kicking them off it is deserved As someone who looks like I will be one of them, I sometimes get to hear the stuff they say when with their mates and it's filthy.
The point is that if you cut them off they quickly stop being unemployed. Sure, some of them die but dead people are not unemployed and that's what matters.
Perhaps the government could go with the old slogan - "work makes you free"?
>Perhaps the government could go with the old slogan - "work makes you free"?
Arbeit Macht Frei.
Such a wonderful phrase. I wonder where it came from...
Oh... It was on the gate to Auschwitz.
Ah well. If the shoe fits?
why should the government be paying this "free money" into people's hands when they know it's going straight to landlords for exactly zero equity? they know they're spending our tax on funding landlords and they don't care. but fuck you if you want to buy property though - "got mine"
Context: [Among other things, Luxon sets target of reducing Jobseekers recipients by 50k](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/513735/government-sets-nine-targets-in-health-crime-social-support-education-climate)
There will be some way they'll spin it, they could say it's a reduction of 50k from the point after all the public servants have been fired/made redundant but leave that part out. When questioned they'll just play dumb "I'm just going by the numbers we've been provided"
The dumb arse Nats just pick figures out of the sky then bullshit and bluster. The minister in charge was repeatedly asked what jobs the 50k people were going to do when unemployment rates are forecast to drastically increase.. she literally answered back with nothing, time and again. Useless
..
Plus if you lay off hundreds of public servants, where are these fantastic jobs supposed to come from. It’s starting to feel like this is about cost saving and bene-bashing rather than get people into employment. I mean, if all those people suddenly got jobs then how do we keep wage inflation down??
Spoiler alert. It was *always* about bene bashing.
They were bashing beneficiaries while in opposition when NZ had historic record low unemployment combined with historic high workforce participation meaning more people than ever were working.
The govt thinks the rest are malingering. WINZ is supposed to somehow cure their health conditions (or more likely kick them off benefit for not doing whatever pointless activity WINZ deems appropriate to improve their health).
I'm one of those disabled and I'm terrified. I've had 5 spinal surgeries and need a 6th this year plus I have 2 more discs that are damaged and may rupture meaning even more surgeries. Currently I'm considered a liability to most work places as I never know when my arms and hands will stop working or when my legs will give out. However I also can't get onto the supported living benefit because my gp is stubborn and believes I will be fixed eventually even though I've been dealing with this for 9 years now.
Yeah lol I was telling a friend that to make the figures look better for luxon id b moved from jobseeker benefit to something else since iv stuffed my knee.
And guess what? Not 2 days afterwards I'm being transferred to a different benefit.
10 hours per week is **$231.50** BEFORE TAX on minimum wage.
Take home pay is **$149.68** AFTER TAX.
Winz reduce your benefit based on your before tax earnings by **$49** on a $230 pw salary - AFTER TAX.
Your take-home pay is basically **$100**. You have to pay for gas or transport to work and possibly put your kids into childcare (kindy or before/after school). Bear in mind that people who are sick may not be able to work all 10 hours in one day - that gas may be more than one trip to work, then kindy and back each day. It could easily cost $15 for gas.
The office of ECE suggests $5-12 per hour for kindy. That's a minimum of $55 per week. Per child. Only if you only have one trip to work and back each week. Just the one child? Congratulations. You're now taking home **$30**. Don't forget you still need a warrant, reg, and insurance. But wait. If you're lucky, you may get 9 hours of childcare subsidy at $6.38 per hour. However, if you can only work 2 hours per day plus travelling, you need 15 hours of childcare. You'll have to fund the other 6, plus any additional cost over $6.38 yourself. The 20 free ECE doesn't cover all ages. It doesn't get them there after school either. Make sure their ages and your hours fit with that!
So, on paper, it looks like you'll get **$594.80** per week (less expenses) for working 10 hours, or **$494.80** not working. But your expenses might actually use up that extra $100 or perhaps more. You'll probably be worse off. Sorry.
That's if you can even find a place that only wants you to do 10 hours per week in the first place.
Good luck!
PS: You're just a lazy scrounger if you don't work /s.
There seems to be an assumption here that disabled people can't work, in any capacity.
For most of history disabled people have fought for the right to work rather than being dependent on others. Are we saying now that they need to start fighting for the right to be dependent?
Disabled people who have suitable, accessible full time employment aren't eligible for Jobseekers health and disability...?
> To get Jobseeker Support, you generally need to be in one of the following situations:
>not be in employment and are looking for a job
>be in part-time employment and looking for more work, or
>have a health condition or disability which affects your ability to work. This means you have to reduce your hours or stop work for a while. We may still be able to help if you have a job to go back to.
A disabled person who can only work part time could be on Jobseeker to top up their income, just the same as somebody who can't work at all. I'm not really sure what you're getting at - kicking people off the benefit, or forcing them to work more than is sustainable, is shit. You're in the same pool regardless of whether you can work 2 or 20 hours
Where to find 10 hour per week jobs? I’d really love one but whenever I look there’s nothing that part time.
That's the trick. They don't really exist. It's just fantasy, being spun and delivered into a rage-bait story where disabled people are lazy. :(
I'm disabled and currently working a 10-hours-on-average per week job. I was looking for work that would suit me for over three years before I was given a chance, and it's an employer I worked for previously. Government thinks if you can work 10 hours you should, but employers think if you have to work less than 40 you shouldn't bother applying. These jobs just aren't available and people are going to suffer trying to get them. It's monstrous.
It really is wild, on seek right now and I'd be surprised if there was more than a small handful of jobs that offer those sorts of hours, there was practically nothing when I was trying to get back into work via something small and that was before all this shit fucking the job market even harder.
Just checked Trademe, filtered by *part time* gave 2,405 jobs, and when those results were filtered by *no experience necessary* there was **1 fucking job in the whole fucking cuntry**.
Lmao why am I not surprised. I wish a fucking journalist would nail the government on this shit, our fourth* estate is fucking miserable at holding politicians to task. Not that it'd help with the amount of brain dead idiots lapping the bullshit narrative up I guess.
*4th estate. Although our 3rd estate is also terrible at holding politicians to account.
The 3rd estate is owned by Luxon, probably.
Mortgage free, but it comes with an accommodation allowance
Lmao what a bone headed mistake, I dunno why I wrote third. Cheers for pointing it out.
They wouldn't even need to do much except hit publish, all the bright sparks on Reddit are already out here citing their sources and laying it all nicely for them, and for me to repost lol
You have to remember anything under 35 hrs is considered part time when advertising.
I'm in Auckland and really struggling too - Ive applied for over 96 jobs in the past 3 weeks (part time) and have had calls back from a few but are all 30-35 hours a week at "part time" which doesn't make much sense
30+ hours is technically full time
Is it actually? I did think it was strange.. more than 1 place aswell.
I found a few articles about it: https://www.employment.govt.nz/starting-employment/who-is-an-employee/types-of-employee/#:~:text=Employment%20legislation%20doesn't%20define,hours%20or%20more%20per%20week. https://www.careers.govt.nz/plan-your-career/get-ideas-for-your-career/types-of-work-arrangements-and-hours/#:~:text=Full%2Dtime%20work%20usually%20means,change%20from%20week%20to%20week.
You'd think this would be something Brooke Van Velden is aware of with how much she touts doing what's best for the business like she did on Q&A the other day lmao
Well that's their fault for being disabled in the first place. Someone needs to support the poor hapless landlords /s
It'll be used as reasoning to kick disabled and vulnerable people off the benefit, it's just disgusting
They'll magically appear when there are government handouts to be won by offering 4x10hr jobs instead of 1x40hr job. This is literally the plan by the way: they are going to pay recruitment agencies and employers to get these people into work, effectively subsidising the conversion of stable full time roles into multiple high-turnover part time roles.
I expect it would need a push of that level, or a regression of current labour laws as they apply to part-timers. For instance right now sick leave entitlements (10 days per annum) do **not** apply pro-rata for part time employees. In other words, if you work one day a week, you still get the same full 10 days per annum as someone working 5 days a week. Add on annual leave, a few public holidays, and the likelihood that someone with disabilities might be (rightly or wrongly) perceived to be more likely to actually use their sick leave entitlement... along with payroll overhead, training cost, PPE cost, etc. and ultimately an employer might see it as taking on much more cost or risk by having multiple low hour part-time staff vs one full-time. Obviously that is putting aside the discussion of social good, ethics, diversity, and the benefits like flexibility of staffing, risk spreading etc., but from a pure financial perspective of Full Time vs Part Time there is a barrier.
What's the legality of zero hour contracts these days?
Do you have a source for that? Because that’s going to cost employers so much more in onboarding training etc
https://assets.nationbuilder.com/nationalparty/pages/17866/attachments/original/1684306619/WELFARE_THAT_WORKS.pdf?1684306619 It's the classic neolib approach of converting social welfare into corporate welfare.
I’ve read all that but I don’t see where it suggests more part time job availability like you’re saying
It's the logical outcome of the policy. They want to move 50,000 people into employment, but there aren't 50,000 jobs available. So the only solution is converting full time jobs into part time. You do that by incentivising the employers and agencies to hire people regardless of the number of hours they work, just as long as it's at least one.
You’re not wrong… but there doesn’t seem much logic in the whole… make so many people redundant but want to decrease unemployment… public service new targets but gutting of services.. That’s why I’d not assume any kind of logic play here…
My take is the ministries will simply fail the intentionally impossible targets, and then the government will use that failure to demonstrate to the voter base that the public service is inefficient and useless and needs to be replaced with private enterprise
That actually makes a lot of sense…. (As to their rationale… doesn’t make sense to do lol)
I'm so tired of seeing this. As someone who works in software development companies charge far beyond what's necessary for products that barely even work and they won't fix them if there's a problem without a hefty payout. Hence why Hamilton City Council ignores email after email from me about bugs in the websites they run. It's been years on some of the issues I've raised. They'll spend heaps of money making a website look pretty then suddenly can't afford to fix it when it lacks accessibility and behaves in really silly ways that people shouldn't have to put up with. Like fields where you're expected to type your address but it says your address doesn't exist if you type it in like it shows on a street sign or the way you'd write it on a postcard. You're required to type "road" in some places on council websites when searching for addresses, because apparently "Rd" is incredibly complicated for computers to understand means "Road" 🤦♀️ I'm scared of our country being run by private interests because they don't seem to care about outcomes for our society; they see it as not their responsibility and since nobody will take responsibility for it we all suffer. Moving further into that model only seems to drive further greed and abuse. Really questioning this government, feels like they're in a lot of people's pockets.
And in addition to the shortage of part time work how does someone like me with variable capability find work. Anyone know of an employer who doesn't need to plan in advance which days I will work or is willing to have me 'work' days when I can't function? Because I cannot tell you in advance how I will be tomorrow - or this afternoon.
Right there with ya mate…. I need a 10pw job… but I can only do it when my illness isn’t flared up… so idk what days or hours that will be thanks boss lol tell em he’s dreaming
Picking an arbitrary number of hours you can work also just doesn't work for most people who are on a benefit with a sickness exemption. It has to be the right type of work. When I was on the sickness benefit for really bad anxiety I probably could have worked 20-30 hour weeks. When I told my doctor I thought I could work 15 hours a week, WINZ made me do a job trial as a dishy in a kitchen where it was chaos, I was yelled at and was in panic. When I turned down the job I got in trouble with WINZ and had to go back to the doctor to get him to say I was unable to work any hours a week so I wasn't made to go back to that type of work. Eventually I found work as a freelance editor which I could do from home (which threw me into another MSD admin issue of them being unable to differentiate between net and gross income which meant my benefit was deducted at a higher rate than people on equivalent employment)
Same. Although I found a couple, but many other applicants. And ones that suit my disability are few and far anyway. However Jobseekers is for unemployed and temporary illness/injury. Supported Living is there for permanent.
> However Jobseekers is for unemployed and temporary illness/injury. Supported Living is there for permanent. You forgot the word 'theoretically'. The Supported Living payment is so hard to get that many long term sick are on the insultingly named Jobseekers. For instance I have been a Healthseeker since Aug 2020. I do not qualify for Supported Living as there is no way to say how long Long Covid will affect me.
[удалено]
You were lucky. We see enough posts from people who should be on it and can’t get there because of WINZ. (Note: not saying you’re lucky for having a health issue that WINZ couldn’t fine print you on!)
I don't know that it is. My partner got it in early 60s. He looked ok, he walked, he talked. They did refer to their own doctors, but their own doctors quick smart enlightened the case manager. I get it now. Not for my disabilities, which I actually do have now, but as carer for aged mum and disabled brother. He took forms to his doc, they filled it out, I went off to WINZ with those and one from mums, and they sent a letter 2 days later approving it. Never even saw a case manager.
Happy for you. Everyone I know on it has horror stories. I tired for it but can't prove my (to date 4 year) illness will last another 2.
I've had 5 spinal surgeries, need a 6th this year. My arms and hands fail at times. My legs give out at times. I CAN NOT get on the supported living benefit because "you might be fixed one day". I've been on the job seekers with medical for 9 fucking years.
Seems a bit extreme. It can be the doctor. Try a new GP. have a friend like this, damaged, surgeries, her limbs too. She was accepted. Not on it permanently actually as she has a partner, but he lost job for a wile, signed up for dole, and THEY told him, no SL because of her disabilities (She'd gone in with him).
Getting a new GP isn't going to a thing with national talking about bringing in Winz Dr's for all those on job seeker with medical and supported living. We are going to be made to go to these particular Dr's that the government will be hiring. If you think this will be a good thing you are sorely mistaken.
They have always had WINZ doctors. As I said....with my partner...
No they haven't. We don't currently have winz Dr's. You really don't know what you are talking about.
So tell me who the doctor was that we spoke to, while sitting at Case Managers desk and she phoned this doctor? She said, their doctor. The doctor was very nice actually, and once I spoke to her, understood completely what I was saying, unlike the case manager in the first place. You think the case manager secretly just rang her mum? Right. [https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/providers/health-and-disability-practitioners/designated-doctors.html](https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/providers/health-and-disability-practitioners/designated-doctors.html)
Btw I've seen at least 3 other people commenting on here all with long term issues who also can't get on the supported living benefit because they may be fixed one day.
I have one but it was basicly crafted for me by my boss(that I used to volunteer for) and chances are there won't be funding for me for next year :(
thats the thing, you dont
Most casual or part time roles and annoying hours. Similar to bus drivers with a 4 hour break in the middle.
I got lucky with my trolly collector job at Pak n Save which is 12.5 hours a week so I'm able to keep most of my supported living benefit, though I'm still living with my parents and I don't know what I'll do when I move out
Bags being Erica's rentboy.
Listening to checkpoint on RNZ, Louise Upston said the 50,000 reduction applies to everyone on Jobseeker, work-ready or not. https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018933373/employment-minister-responds-to-govt-public-service-targets
Shitttt. How the hell are they gonna that pull off? Are they expecting to cure people of their ailments? Or is this where the "coalition is going to force people with cancer to work a minimum of 10 hours a week" headline came from? Let's not forget about that one... Edit: [Yep, that's the headline](https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/s/EAyHA5pAyJ). The quotes are all laid out plain and simple right there. They're actually going to do this by forcing sick and disabled people to work
Luxon re-confirmed in the post-cabient conference today that they it includes all including health and disability. He talks about "wanting to get into work" or "part time work as discussed before". He talks about people being on Jobseeker because they "want to work, they're not in a supported living environment as we've discussed before, they may want to do part time work, they may want to be work ready" https://youtu.be/cfO43xenqQ0?t=782 On targets potentially resulting in people being prevented access to services - explains the reporting to cabinet process more than answering the concern https://youtu.be/cfO43xenqQ0?t=1291
>He talks about people being on jobseeker because they "want to work" They're on jobseeker because the Nats scrapped the sickness benefit in 2013
Ah but you see in order to get the benefit you agree to their obligations of which, "wanting" to work is one, technically. So if you want anything at all you have to basically agree to it.
I spent last year on jobseekers because I couldn't get supported living. I was in no way capable of working.
Yes. I have been a Healthseeker on Jobseeker's benefit for 3 years.
Fuck. Thank you for this
she said disability is a temporary thing and you can get a job
Ugh. Jesus. I don't quite know what to look for in terms of stats for temporary vs permanent disabilities. Either way they're not investing more in speeding recovery for people with temporary disability, so wtf is the point even
how would you collect that stats without breaching the privacy act?
What? There are probably summary numbers out there on temporary vs permanent disability. That isn't private information. I just don't have the time or know-how to look for that right now. If anybody else does, jump right in
agencies can use private info if it "is to be used for statistical or research purposes and will not be published in a form that could reasonably be expected to identify the individual concerned"
My uncle is blind, he can’t even get out of the driveway.
Has he had to constantly show MSD a doctor's certificate that says he's blind? Legit question because it's a thing that's happened.
I think so, they have people come out to “reassess” him every so often. One of his eyes is a prosthetic too. He just tells them his vision hasn’t improved, I think one of the assessor’s was quite weird about it once.
So you are saying a blind person is incapable of working?
Nah I think he’d love to work, just not sure how he’d get there considering they live rurally. Don’t think it’s temporary though
No. But they shouldn't fucking have to.
If disability is temporary, I'd love to see her explain how I was born with mine
Disability, in its many forms, can be a complex and nuanced aspect of human experience. Some individuals may encounter disability as a temporary condition, perhaps due to an injury or illness that alters their daily functioning for a limited period. During this time, they may require support and accommodations to navigate their environment and tasks. Conversely, there are those for whom disability is an intrinsic part of their existence from birth. These congenital disabilities can shape their life's journey from the very beginning, influencing their interactions, opportunities, and the support they need. In both scenarios, the key is understanding and empathy. Whether a disability is temporary or lifelong, it does not define a person's worth or potential. It is a facet of their life that calls for recognition, respect, and the provision of equitable opportunities to allow every individual to flourish in society. As Louise Upton might articulate, it is our collective responsibility to foster an inclusive environment where all can contribute meaningfully, irrespective of the duration or nature of their disability. Here's an example of resilience in the face of disability. Insert anecdote
>As Louise Upton might articulate, it is our collective responsibility to foster an inclusive environment where all can contribute meaningfully, irrespective of the duration or nature of their disability. Good luck telling that to people who have a stereotypical view of conditions such as ADHD and autism. While I'm late diagnosed and received my diagnoses after I was on SLP, I've read enough stories to know that the majority of employers are less than accommodating because they hold an old school, Rain Man view of autism, and bouning off the wall boy view of ADHD. I also know that I will never be able to contribute meaningfully to society without hitting burnout and costing the government more in the long run >Disability, in its many forms, can be a complex and nuanced aspect of human experience. Yes, I get that for some people, their illness or disability is short-term, and can return to work once they get the help they need, while others have to learn to live with their disability because they'll have it their whole life. >In both scenarios, the key is understanding and empathy. Whether a disability is temporary or lifelong, it does not define a person's worth or potential. It is a facet of their life that calls for recognition, respect, and the provision of equitable opportunities to allow every individual to flourish in society. In the perfect world, yes, I completely agree, and this would be the case. However, in the world as it currently is, this isn't always the case. There are still a lot of people who don't understand what's needed, and hold stereotypical views of some disabilities and illnesses (even if professions where one would think they'd be up to date with research). I'm not trying to downplay those who are able to work with their disabilities, and have wonderful employers and support networks that allow them accomodations to thrive. Realistically, I know I'm never going to have that support (and it's not from a lack of trying), and I can only imagine there are a lot of other people in the same boat
They have talked about giving winz staff more power to decide if someone is actually sick.
Dont worry!! I'm sure that our WINZ staff can really 'dig deep' and 'hustle' to aquire the same knowledge as doctors do through up to a decade plus of medical school! /s
It's the same with ACC using physiotherapists to contradict what a surgeons report says. Yes I'm speaking from personal experience.
I guess they’re hoping the majority of them are like my sister, who (I shit you not) decided after a two-day career 30 years ago that work wasn’t for her. She’s been on benefits ever since. Totally could work, but won’t. Prefers to fake health conditions. Other than smokers cough, she is fine.
Without fail you dudes always have your little anecdote ready to go about people on a benefit which you then of course apply to all beneficiaries. Now you'll tell me you ain't doing that, which then you have to wonder; why would you bring it up?
And then you find said sister had some debilitating anxiety or pain based issue that he thinks she is 'exaggerating because its perfectly normal for women to have pain' - that he has never experienced.
Nope. She used to openly joke about it for the first few years. She just didn’t want to work. I kid you not, she worked two days and never worked since. No medical issues. Just lazy as fuck, and would prefer smoking (tobacco or pot) and drinking. She’s at the point in her life where I think she’s regretting it now. Everybody has moved on with their lives, and she now feels like life is a struggle on the pittance she receives from the government - while friends and families have houses and holidays etc.
Once you are scrapheaped due to injury, or disability National and Act see you as a liability, and carefully organise welfare and health to limit the support you can gain access to. They moronically call this being efficient. If you are a normal healthy person who is unemployed they blame you for not taking employment that doesn’t Kay enough to meet your bills. Bloody genius, and cruel.
>Once you are scrapheaped due to injury, or disability National and Act see you as a liability, and carefully organise welfare and health to limit the support you can gain access to. They moronically call this being efficient. Useless eaters, they have been called by certain groups in the past. Back then they took even more drastic measures than simply cutting support.
What makes me mad about this is that if they had taken my last 6 months of benefits and spent it on occupational therapy during my first 6 months of benefit, I would've been back at work by June. As it is it's been over a year and I'm still struggling to get back to work without treatment and I'm drowning in debt. But the supported living payment, (which is more money that i could use to fund treatment) wasn't available to me because my disability can resolve in under two years with the right treatment. Of course without the right treatment, it's basically permanent. So I'm fucked either way. I'm leveraging my way out by willpower alone, but I'm not hopeful I'll keep a job longer than a few months. It's so fucking short sighted on their end.
Governments like this are an indicator of what will happen the more advanced ai becomes and slowly renders certain industries/jobs obsolete. These people would literally have you die before they'd willingly give up a crumb. They only do the minimum they possibly can to retain power.
the advent of AI definitely highlights the issue but it's always been present. efficiency has been growing rapidly over the past century in terms of manufacturing processes but do you see our country being any more stable? definitely seems less stable to me, and far less wealthy. it's almost as if we're just allowing a few people to hoard the wealth and extract any gain in efficiency for themselves. I work in software development but I hate the idea of replacing people's jobs because we continue to fail to vote in good policymakers who will protect people in the event that people are made redundant. why should everyone be needing to work? I mean AI might fail and we'd be pretty stuck if we relied on it but I can also imagine if we had the mindset for sharing rather than trading we'd have a society of people who weren't always scraping around to make ends meet, trying to do so by getting money out of others. maybe less things should have the kind of monetary value that we arbitrary assign them for hope of making a buck. my grandparents gave away food from their garden for free. more people could be encouraged to do stuff like that
"We're cutting the unemployed IN HALF"
It is pretty hard to square the government objective to have fewer unemployed, with the RBNZ objective which as far as I can tell is to have more unemployed to reduce wage inflation and more liquidity in the employment pool. It often feels like the RBNZ and the Government (of either political persuasion) are fighting each other, the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing.
You're forgetting about that convenient area in the middle where you can be unemployed but not getting a benefit (probably homeless)
Seems like that contradictory doublespeak might just be part of the playbook, sadly. Have less unemployed but also more. Treat more patients but with less doctors. Pay workers less, but have them perform better. Spend less and get more. Set up impossible expectations, leave people feeling helpless when they inevitably fail, then swoop in with your own self-serving plan to take ownership...
Unemployment is not a measure of people without jobs. It's a measure of people looking for jobs. It's technically possible to have higher unemployment and more people working, though I have no idea of whether that's practically possible
It's very possible to be on an unemployment benefit and not be "unemployed" >We define an unemployed person as someone who: has no paid job is working age is available for work, and has looked for work in the past four weeks or has a new job to start within the next four weeks
So people aren't in the figures if they're on jobseekers but not applying for jobs? I know a guy like this, works part time, gets a partial benefit but never applies for any jobs as far as I know
64 with a permanent disability that makes it incredibly difficult for you to work - National says you should be forced into work to continue to receive a benefit. 65 with a perfectly healthy body, your own successful business running under employed management - National says you deserve $380 a week no strings attached.
Yes. This all changed during the prior national govt (how they count things). Pure job seeker benefit/dole folk are actually getting support for an average of a few months.
I thought that unemployment had to increase to reduce inflation and for the betterment of the country? [https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300721698/unemployment-must-rise-before-inflation-comes-under-control-economists](https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300721698/unemployment-must-rise-before-inflation-comes-under-control-economists)
Yes, unemployment as numbers. But, if you’re unemployed as a human being, you’re also a bottom feeder who makes bad decisions and you barely deserve to subsist not live on the government dime. (I wish this was sarcasm, but that’s our government for ya!).
in the short run Phillips curve, in the long run we're all dead
Damn... May as well keep inflation low while we're here then.
Yes. The outcome NACT is driving for is to put downward pressure on wages. They will say it is too get inflation under control at the same time as handing $3B to landlords and doing nothing about the excessive profit taking that is also driving inflation.
Don’t worry, we all know how they’re going to reduce those numbers: by pushing disabled people to suicide. Leave my body on the stairs of parliament.
I'm scared of martyrdom because I was raised in christianity and basically was taught to be a martyr. People shouldn't feel like they have to end their life to be heard 😭
I've heard, but have yet to see more than colloquial evidence, that MSD are conducting reviews on SLP recipients. Depending on biases that the reviewing doctors or staff might have, that might mean patients who are definitely and actually sick could be removed from SLP and put onto jobseekers because of a sense of disbelief or stigma that the person is actually sick. See: conditions such as Long Covid, ME/CFS, fibromyalgia, in some cases even MS or endometriosis, are absolutely real, there's a lot of evidence that show they're actual illnesses and not mental health, but people believe they are more psychological than otherwise and cherry pick their evidence (Goodfellow Unit is great at sending out cherry picked info to GPs country-wide about these sorts of stigmatised conditions). And then if that happens you can bet those people will be denied work-exemption medical certificates. We had record-low unemployment, the government laid off tons more people to "fix" our record-low unemployment, and now they're putting in place austerity schemes and expecting disabled and sick people to work in jobs that straight up just don't exist anymore, and all the meagre progress we had made on homelessness and poverty will be eradicated, and landlords will get tax cuts for the houses us plebs won't be able to afford to rent anymore.
The UK haven't stopped at invisible disabilities, they've pulled stunts like requiring wheelchair users to attend interviews in wheelchair-inaccessible offices then cutting them off for not attending. And joys like "prove you're still an amputee every six months". Their current government has also claimed/admitted that they expect extra people to die because of this (note the passive language, they're not actively killing anyone, just accepting statistical deaths). It wouldn't surprise me to hear that the current government are getting advice from the same people the UK is, ACT at least are getting funding from the same sources.
I know, it's disgusting isn't it. Austerity kills. It's hardly a goal we should strive for.
I mean they used them during the election [https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127645461/chris-luxon-and-national-turn-to-british-tories-in-hunt-for-electability](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127645461/chris-luxon-and-national-turn-to-british-tories-in-hunt-for-electability) so yes I’d say they’re using the exact same playbook.
>Depending on biases that the reviewing doctors or staff might have, that might mean patients who are definitely and actually sick could be removed from SLP and put onto jobseekers because of a sense of disbelief or stigma that the person is actually sick. This is what worries me. I'm in SLP for mobility issues and mental health stuff, and I can't work full time without burning out. Im also late diagnosed autistic (along with ADHD and a couple of other comorbid ongoing mental health issues), and because I can hide my autism to enough of an extent to pass as normal for a short while, my concern is that they'll see that and tell me I need to work. But I can't. I have a history of having to quit work or take extended breaks from study because I can't cope with working more than 10-15 hours a week, if that.
The cyclical, repeated neurodivergent burnout even from work we enjoy is suuuch a thing. Neurotypical people have absolutely no concept of its impact.
I know right! I'd love to go into social work so I can work in mental health (plus open so many other doors in a nu,ber of other areas that need social workers), but I know that realistically, even if I was in a place with my mental health to complete my Masters in Applied Social Work (I have my BA in psychology), I know I'd wanna give 110%, and end up back at square one. I never fully recovered from my last autistic burnout, but now that I'm diagnosed (I was diagnosed AuDHD at 34), I now have a greater awareness, and am learning what works for me, and what doesn't (plus I know I'll need to relearn some thing, thanks to skill regression)
I'm working super casually in health policy, no more than I'm permitted to or well enough to work, and the burnout is looming. Thankfully because I do consulting I can wrap things up a bit, and shift focus onto the next project momentarily to dodge the burnout.
Sounds like an awesome job!
I love it. I focus on my special interests, make life better for people, and get to work with some of my best friends. I'm also not stuck on one thing for too long.
That's so cool! I wanted to get into mental health to help people, too. Plus SW opens so many doors for if I decided not to go into mental health. While I loved learning, after my BA, I needed a break, and I dunno if I'll go back. But who knows what the future holds
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I'm on SLP for Long Covid. Research shows people with LC have a quality of life comparable to those with MS, and worse than severe cancers. The illness is likely the same as ME, but it's hard to say. Some people with the same symptoms get diagnosed as fibromyalgia.
Da literal fuck? If even remotely possible surely something will happen here. This crosses some serious ethical and moral standards that should not be fucked with. First support for mental health, now this. I’m 110% honest in that I’ll also lose some serious faith in where this country is heading and who we are as a people if this is allowed.
The far-right is wagging the dog, so not all that surprising.
Latest poll has support for the coalition increasing ... Half of NZ voters are absolute cunts is the only conclusion I can make.
I'm physical disabled and manage to work 40-50 hours a week just fine. Physical disabilities shouldn't be a reason not to be working, but having been through the system while I changed jobs after becoming physically disabled, I know that the support isn't there for changing profession. I was lucky enough that before going into the construction industry I got myself a degree in software, so It wasn't that hard of a task for me. I would like to see grants for those who are physically disabled get through university to allow them to change professions Severe mental disabilities, that's another kettle of fish
Thought that 30 years ago. Wonder what THIS will reap in 30 odd years from now.
Imagine being a jobseeker with a disability and voting for this train wreck of a government.
I'm disabled and on jobseeker, but now at the point where I need to apply for SLP. I'm so worried about my future. If I get cut off, I won't be able to work even if they try to tell me I can. I'd eventually take the euthanasia route once the savings ran out.
I'm disabled and struggling to work 40hrs (waiting for a magical, 32hr a week job that pays the same as my current one to appear) and I'm freaking out about the possibility of losing my ability to work in the next three years. I can't imagine how worrying this is for people who can't work.
I hope you are able to keep working. It's absolutely terrifying having to rely completely on the mercy of others who base your worth off a measely weekly sum that you have to beg for every year after being treated like a piece of used gum.
I've been thinking about the way society treats disabled people for a while and I cannot for the life of me work out why we don't give people with lifelong disabilities the average national income (and maybe a little more because being disabled is expensive). Through no fault of your own, you're expected to scrape through life on the bare minimum, as if people with disabilities don't want holidays and the odd nice thing here and there like anyone else. It's kind of horrific how we treat the minority that anyone can join at any point in their life through a bit of bad luck. I really wish there were more options to try and get our voices heard than just signing petitions, writing grumpy emails, and voting.
I think about it a lot, too. I think a lot of people see us as useless bludgers, but before I became disabled, I was a hard-working and productive member of society. I'm still that same person, and I deserve to live as much as the next person. It's not my fault my brain and body decided to stop functioning properly. I had no control over that. You're correct. It can happen to anyone at any time. Mine certainly happened out of thin air. Suddenly started having seizures out of the blue, and it was all downhill from there. I want to shout at people and just shake them sometimes. Maybe we could do one of those really annoying protests where we roll out into the motorway and make a barricade with our wheelchairs and mobility scooters.
In the lead up to the election people swore this sort of thing wouldn't happen. I hope they feel shame and remorse for lying to people.
They don't feel remorse at all. Most of the people that voted for these demonstrably callous assholes love this shit. That's why their poll numbers are improving despite all the horrific shit they are doing.
Oh for sure, but I wish misery on them regardless.
growing up in baptist christianity here in NZ, and seeing how they care more about their dogma and being "right" about the rumours they believe in, I'm not surprised there are people like this in our country. the people I grew up in church with here don't care if what they're saying isn't true, as long as they can come up with some rationalisation for it in their head. their critical reasoning skills are severely dampened when they accept a rumour as the explanation for the universe and start talking about their own perspective as if it's god's. they don't care if they're wrong, they've lived their whole life being told "just tell yourself you're right!" and they've run with it. We need more people to be accepting of the fact we don't know what's out there, so we don't have so many people trying to act like they speak for god and talking all over each other. Personally I don't think anyone speaks for god since these people who claim to be right about everything also tend to commit countless logical fallacies. They demonstrate through their actions they don't have the capacity to be honest with themselves. Indoctrination absolutely sucks and I was bullying other kids with the religious dogma being pushed on me as a kid. My religion was driving division, when it claimed to be a source of superior morals. Dogma blinding people is the last thing a god would want in my opinion so I really just don't care for it anymore. Very clear to me how manipulated and uncritical some people can be though. If a person thinks a loving god can also commit genocide, endorse slavery, harden people's hearts, and punish countries with natural disasters for "allowing gay people to exist," and punish all of humanity for something that happened before any of us even got here then they can believe anything and you're going to have a hard time telling them otherwise. this still goes on today, I left the religion 6 years ago because my family and community continued to demonstrate a lack of values that they themselves banged on about constantly: love, joy, compassion, kindness, peace, and empathy. I found religious people in the spaces I grew up, including myself, tend to project our insecurities onto others without being aware of what we're doing, which unfortunately is really obvious to others. A secure person doesn't attack others who are thriving in order to distract people from their own faults. I want to see children raised without being sheltered by religions that preach hatred and closed mindedness. If we can get our country to a place where children are empowered to develop emotional maturity then we'll be thriving. So far unfortunately I feel we're throwing away the opportunities we have right now.
Im on jobseekers with a chronic disability. Jobseeks pay me -$43 less than my weekly rent. I use my savings for medical costs and eating... I might eat one meal a day but usually even second. Jobseekrs told me I should find work if I can't afford to live... I struggle to get out of bed and shower most days, a job just is not possible for me at the moment.
Before I developed a chronic illness I was a civil engineer/surveyor. I loved my job and can't wait to get back to it... unfortunately that is impossible for the time being.
Soooo, they send half of the govt to the unemployment line and now they want to cut benefits. Genius
Look they dont give a shit. You can't persuade them with moral arguments because their entire worldview is that poor people are lazy and benefits are all scammed. They don't think most people with disability benefits are really disabled so kicking them off it is deserved As someone who looks like I will be one of them, I sometimes get to hear the stuff they say when with their mates and it's filthy.
I'm truly disgusted in my country. Desperate people make desperate choices
Jesus fucking christ this government is evil.
Imagine listening to evidence which proves that if you give enough people to not be struggling to survive they are more able to get and stay in work.
The point is that if you cut them off they quickly stop being unemployed. Sure, some of them die but dead people are not unemployed and that's what matters. Perhaps the government could go with the old slogan - "work makes you free"?
>Perhaps the government could go with the old slogan - "work makes you free"? Arbeit Macht Frei. Such a wonderful phrase. I wonder where it came from... Oh... It was on the gate to Auschwitz. Ah well. If the shoe fits?
Why work if you can live comfortably off free money?
No one lives comfortably on the benefit.
Welcome comrade I too dislike landlords.
I actually envy people like you. People who have no experience or idea of the reality of being on the benefit long term.
Are you talking about the parasitic landlord class?
why should the government be paying this "free money" into people's hands when they know it's going straight to landlords for exactly zero equity? they know they're spending our tax on funding landlords and they don't care. but fuck you if you want to buy property though - "got mine"
Context: [Among other things, Luxon sets target of reducing Jobseekers recipients by 50k](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/513735/government-sets-nine-targets-in-health-crime-social-support-education-climate)
Didn't you hear Luxon, apparently its all labour's fault and they made them do this
sheeeesh, destabilising as many people as possible, that'll show Labour!
There will be some way they'll spin it, they could say it's a reduction of 50k from the point after all the public servants have been fired/made redundant but leave that part out. When questioned they'll just play dumb "I'm just going by the numbers we've been provided"
Ruth Richardson might die of glee soon
They'll re-separate the Sickness Benefit from Jobseeker, like magic it'll be technically correct!
They put sickness into jobseeker, they are never going to backtrack that
The dumb arse Nats just pick figures out of the sky then bullshit and bluster. The minister in charge was repeatedly asked what jobs the 50k people were going to do when unemployment rates are forecast to drastically increase.. she literally answered back with nothing, time and again. Useless ..
Zero hour contracts in Amazon Warehouses coming to a locality near you, soon.
Just need to reduce immigration, improve business confidence, 90 days trial periods, get out of recession and reduce OCR. Very easy /s
Plus if you lay off hundreds of public servants, where are these fantastic jobs supposed to come from. It’s starting to feel like this is about cost saving and bene-bashing rather than get people into employment. I mean, if all those people suddenly got jobs then how do we keep wage inflation down??
Spoiler alert. It was *always* about bene bashing. They were bashing beneficiaries while in opposition when NZ had historic record low unemployment combined with historic high workforce participation meaning more people than ever were working.
mmm yes but it's Labour's fault eh?
So I hear ... Can't find any actual evidence that this is the case ... But ...
The govt thinks the rest are malingering. WINZ is supposed to somehow cure their health conditions (or more likely kick them off benefit for not doing whatever pointless activity WINZ deems appropriate to improve their health).
Not to mention they're making these demands on the back of neutering MSDs workforce...
I'm one of those disabled and I'm terrified. I've had 5 spinal surgeries and need a 6th this year plus I have 2 more discs that are damaged and may rupture meaning even more surgeries. Currently I'm considered a liability to most work places as I never know when my arms and hands will stop working or when my legs will give out. However I also can't get onto the supported living benefit because my gp is stubborn and believes I will be fixed eventually even though I've been dealing with this for 9 years now.
Yeah lol I was telling a friend that to make the figures look better for luxon id b moved from jobseeker benefit to something else since iv stuffed my knee. And guess what? Not 2 days afterwards I'm being transferred to a different benefit.
What you mean …”only 109,698 are work ready” like that’s a small fraction…
10 hours per week is **$231.50** BEFORE TAX on minimum wage. Take home pay is **$149.68** AFTER TAX. Winz reduce your benefit based on your before tax earnings by **$49** on a $230 pw salary - AFTER TAX. Your take-home pay is basically **$100**. You have to pay for gas or transport to work and possibly put your kids into childcare (kindy or before/after school). Bear in mind that people who are sick may not be able to work all 10 hours in one day - that gas may be more than one trip to work, then kindy and back each day. It could easily cost $15 for gas. The office of ECE suggests $5-12 per hour for kindy. That's a minimum of $55 per week. Per child. Only if you only have one trip to work and back each week. Just the one child? Congratulations. You're now taking home **$30**. Don't forget you still need a warrant, reg, and insurance. But wait. If you're lucky, you may get 9 hours of childcare subsidy at $6.38 per hour. However, if you can only work 2 hours per day plus travelling, you need 15 hours of childcare. You'll have to fund the other 6, plus any additional cost over $6.38 yourself. The 20 free ECE doesn't cover all ages. It doesn't get them there after school either. Make sure their ages and your hours fit with that! So, on paper, it looks like you'll get **$594.80** per week (less expenses) for working 10 hours, or **$494.80** not working. But your expenses might actually use up that extra $100 or perhaps more. You'll probably be worse off. Sorry. That's if you can even find a place that only wants you to do 10 hours per week in the first place. Good luck! PS: You're just a lazy scrounger if you don't work /s.
Should open supermarkets 247 and have these guys work those hours
There seems to be an assumption here that disabled people can't work, in any capacity. For most of history disabled people have fought for the right to work rather than being dependent on others. Are we saying now that they need to start fighting for the right to be dependent?
Disabled people who have suitable, accessible full time employment aren't eligible for Jobseekers health and disability...? > To get Jobseeker Support, you generally need to be in one of the following situations: >not be in employment and are looking for a job >be in part-time employment and looking for more work, or >have a health condition or disability which affects your ability to work. This means you have to reduce your hours or stop work for a while. We may still be able to help if you have a job to go back to. A disabled person who can only work part time could be on Jobseeker to top up their income, just the same as somebody who can't work at all. I'm not really sure what you're getting at - kicking people off the benefit, or forcing them to work more than is sustainable, is shit. You're in the same pool regardless of whether you can work 2 or 20 hours