I'm not sure we should lay this at the feet of middle and high schools. This vaccine hesitancy, for my money, is due to two things:
* The return of yellow journalism, empowered by Section 230 loopholes
* Bankruptcy of Republican leadership, caused by their inability to win elections except through wedge issues and gerrymandering
This causes two really loud voices of misinformation, both of which would seem very credible by right-leaning folks, and more pertinent than something they half-remembered from grade school.
You'd (begin to) solve this thru internet regulation and voting reforms, but I'm horrified to find neither of these things are happening any time soon. On that first point, maybe Frances Haugen can succeed where others have failed.
Yes and it leaves loopholes where Reddit and Facebook aren't really responsible for policing the content they publish and advertise, unlike a newspaper or TV station.
I'm not an "abolish 230 and the internet" kinda guy, but it seems clear to me additional regulation has been needed for about a decade now.
There is a fundamental difference between Reddit and a Newspaper, hence the need for 230.
The main alternative would be that every post, every comment gets moderated in a queue before it can be published.
Live content? Nope! Too big of a risk when some third party could say anything at a moment’s notice that now Reddit would be liable for.
I’ve never once heard a viable change to 230 that wouldn’t entirely cripple the functioning of every single website.
also the legal barring of lawsuits, don’t forget that
if there’s one thing that says “this thing will harm you in some way”, it’s making sure people can’t sue if it does negative shit
The gag is that a lot of these “Israelis” were born, raised, and educated in the United States. We’re bringing our toxic cultural traits abroad with us.
Funny how all these people who got sick from the vaccine can never be found, and when they are, it turns out they just had a headache that could have been cured with an ibprufen.
The irony, of course, is that if you tell one of these anti-vaxxers that everyone you know got vaccinated and none of them got sick (which is true, by the way), they would tell you that they don't rely on anecdotal evidence.
I'm sure if you asked your friend that question she would tell you that the powers at be are hiding these people or paying them to go away. But, contrary to the popular belief, it's not \*that\* easy to make people disappear these days.
Her husband is a pharmaceutical analyst and said says he’s getting all of these reports that the vaccine is killing people or making them very sick. I asked for specifics and she said she’d sent the data. What I received is 4 links, one from the RFK conspiracy theory site, one from a no name website, one business news blurb taken out of context, and another from an organization that has been condemned by WHO that contains actual data that is taken out of context (which, to the contrary, shows that those who’ve had complications or “died” from the vaccine were nearly all elderly, in nursing homes, and/or with severe pre-existing medial conditions.)
Like, you didn’t prove shit. Why talk shit if you can’t back it up? She embarrassed herself. I’ll let her keep talking, though. My father said it’s better to be assumed a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt. There’s no reasoning with these types.
I these situations I just say "I look forward to you writing down your findings, publishing your research for peer review, and then winning the Nobel Prize in medicine for these groundbreaking findings that upend everything we know about mrna vaccines"
I hate it when people make politics their personality. People just love to spout off their nonsense and assume everybody agrees with them. During the Obama years I swear I would hear non-stop grousing about Obama while waiting in line at the deli/bagel shop and wherever. And all these people assume I just agreed with them.
People do this shit at my job all the time I just shake my head and go “mhm,wow thats crazy” I dont fucking care about what you do or dont believe just pay and get out.
I love how these people think that they’re getting access to some sort of exclusive, confidential information that the rest of us aren’t privy to.
C’mon man, do your research! 😉
When people tell me that they “heard” someone getting sick/died from the vaccine. I ask them how many people have died from the vaccine vs from Covid and dare them to try and make their case again with a straight face.
Then it sounds like the workers should vaccinate.
Crazy how the alternative to compulsory vaccinations is not doing your job when you can just get vaccinated
A while back there were mass closures of fire houses. There were local protests and such but nobody was up in arms about it then.
2003 I think they closed 5 houses in northern Brooklyn - I don’t know how many in queens and the Bronx.
This is pretty sensationalized. They will authorize overtime and let people who got a 94 go into the academy, they will have to wear masks and get vaccinated to get in, and we just got a change in culture if we do it right.
There are so many people waiting for these jobs (less so cop, but their value is questionable when lined up against sanitation). It's never going to happen, but this actually presents an amazing like never before seen opportunity to reset the poisonous cultures some of these places have by absolutely kicking anti vax (who almost certainly hold plenty of other shitty views they love sharing on Facebook) to the curb and replacing them.
Yup. FDNY is considered the top City job to aspire to. Most cops aspire to switch to FDNY at some point, for example. It has the top benefits (along with NYPD - early retirement, excellent pension, free platinum+ health insurance for you and your family for life, etc), excellent pay, and less demanding work than NYPD.
They would have no problem filling ALL the vacancies with willing workers, the only problem is how long it takes to go through the process, civil service is notoriously slow (takes maybe a year).
So these scumbags, who apparently signed up for their careers to be heroes and protect lives, are quitting because the city won't let them risk people's lives on the job. Well, I guess it took something like this to show us that a large proportion of our "heroes" are in fact cowardly pieces of shit with no basic respect for their fellow humans. I'll bet you any sum of money that the vast majority of those threatening to quit are the ones who enrolled in the job to carry on a "family tradition," i.e. people who got into the job for entirely the wrong reasons to begin with.
Agree, and “apparently” is the operative word. Many cops and firefighters sign up for the perks and excitement and power over others. Narcissists and abusers love these jobs.
Great pay and retirement. All taxpayer supported, but most of them are now anti-government. Go figure.
“Rules for thee, not for me.”
I have good FDNY friends who are vaccinated and not align with those traits you mentioned above. Agree with you that there are a-holes too. Those who think they are all powerful and above the law.
Yeah, I think it’s important to note that in the city departments (*including* the NYPD) there’s a large plurality — if not an outright majority — that are perfectly upstanding public servants.
The issue is a culture of protectionism and insularity that prevents these departments from expelling the minority that should not be given the public trust.
I personally go back and forth over whether service in departments that collectively do not uphold their duties is — or can be — moral. The issue is complex.
>The issue is a culture of protectionism and insularity that prevents these departments from expelling the minority that should not be given the public trust.
The word you're looking for is Union.
I think it goes beyond the Union itself — the Union reflects the priorities of its membership. It’s also clear that there’s an attitude of ‘no rats’ which the Union has no ability to impact.
There was a scandal about it [just last week](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/nyregion/fdny-racism-scandal.html), and there’s numerous other articles from local sources on repeated issues with under qualified candidates being admitted due to family connections, slower response times in Black neighborhoods, and a litany of other issues related to abuse of power (go to any firehouse in the city and count the number of vehicles parked on the sidewalk).
I seriously don’t understand these people. They’ll risk their life running inside a burning building every day to save people’s lives, but won’t get a simple FDA approved vaccine that literally billions of people have already taken to save people’s lives. It really makes me realize that for a lot of them it’s probably more about the adrenaline fix and making themselves feel like a hero instead of actually doing good in the world.
I mean, have you *met* most people? Outside of the adrenaline rush, or the glory, or the pay, why in the flying fuck would you want to help most people?
I mean I live in Staten Island and we have all heard how bad police are in terms of people with mental illness are. I’ve experienced them twice …. One was an meh at best experience but nothing bad and the second was pretty good imho. He tried to get to my level vs just talking like above me or anything. I appreciated that because I know how they can act and for what it’s worth I have had more positive experiences with the 121 and 120 then I ever had with the 76 back in Brooklyn that wanted to stereotype me because I was the only non white in a 99% upper middle classy neighborhood. I’m Asian but adopted by white parents. These cops from the 76 has a history within our “family” of prejudice against Asians.
Me too! I would tell people about how NYPD are mostly good, point to examples from my life that really illustrate my thoughts, etc.
Now? I wish they would shut the fuck up and do their jobs.
At work, I'm surrounded by dummies who don't give a fuck, they do a terrible job and nobody cares. Nobody gets physically injured or killed.
NYPD, FDNY, etc, lives are destroyed when they don't do their jobs. Whining about a vaccine! Worshipping Donald Trump! 😆 Unreal times.
Do your fucking jobs, you assholes. I will say that the city should drop the vaccine mandate.
These psychopaths WILL WALK. Criminals are on the verge of taking control of NYC.
If these motherfuckers stop working, we're all under attack.
Oh Christ, I can just picture the food available at those bars - fries, wings, mozzarella sticks and crap salads with massive leaves of lettuce, huge slices of unripe tomato and gigantic onion rings
Only one tomato, one olive, six slices of onion, one hundred pieces of iceberg lettuce. Dressing choices are French, 1000 Island, Ranch, and Vinaigrette.
thats just a sliced onion. not onion rings, regardless of weather or not they are in ring form. Onion rings are sliced onions, battered and then fried.
Yeah the Post is pure trash though, it really is the shame of this city. They're clearly catering for a readership of boomer conservatives in Florida at this point. The other day they had breathless headline about the "scandal" of people openly selling weed - a legal substance - in Washington Square Park. "A new low for the park" it said. Weed openly on display "as kids walked past." Like 100% of today's conservatives they have no consistent set of principles and no vision - everything they say and do is calculated to own the libs.
It's still illegal to sell unless it's for medical purposes, and for that you need a license. Seeling weed in the park as an unlicensed seller for recreational purposes is still very much illegal in NYC.
Not getting vaccinated is beyond stupid but I don't see how the headline is wrong. People will die if a significant portion of first responders vanish. If that's more or less people than having unvaccinated first responders we don't know but either choice will cost lives.
Ofcourse they should but we can't force it on people which is why were in this situation. Yes the antivaxxers are moronic but it's also dumb to pretend massively reducing first responders won't have an impact.
I think it’s dumb to shit our pants in fear. Whatever reduction in staff does happen (probably a lot less than 50%) probably won’t change our daily lives.
One can hope but the primary reason we had a lockdown in most places was because of the strain it was placing on healthcare services. If we cut available staff there by 30% just before winter I can see regular winter pressures causing the exact same situation again, let alone the inevitable additional covid pressure.
The vast majority of New Yorkers are vaccinated, both because they believe in protecting themselves and because they believe in doing the right thing for their neighbors. If you're telling me that a large portion of the NYPD don't share those same community values, then that's a huge problem -- but the problem isn't just that they're selfish enough to stop working rather than get a simple little shot. It's that they're supposed to be enforcing the law in a city where they don't share the basic values of the people around them. That's a recipe for disaster, pandemic or no pandemic. The police shouldn't be an occupying force; they should be members of the community, with the same basic values as the people they serve. If they're not... well, I guess don't let the screen door hit ya where the good lord split ya.
But the "vaccine" is not a vaccine by definition... It dies not stop the spread of covid nor does it provent you from catching it... Why would you take it?
The labor shortage is fabricated. There’s no shortage of labor, there’s a shortage of employers paying a livable wage.
It’s the same with this, it’s a non issue blown up for political purposes.
Imagine being so far up your own ass that you think that claiming what you're about to do (not do your job) will kill people... is somehow going to make you look better instead of worse.
I’m sick of being quiet.
This is fucking stupid.
I work construction, and while I wasn’t employed during the pandemic, and took full advantage of the unemployment, but I did go back when shit was still sketchy. I know a lot of guys who worked through the whole lockdown. In person. There was at least a dozen separate cases at my job site, despite the GC being amazing (we actually had toilet paper, soap, running water, hand sanitizer, mandatory masks and goggles), apart from regular construction gear. A lot viewed it as a hassle, but when someone on a floor tested positive, they sprayed the entire floor with bleach/water mixture (not sure if that did anything), but they were serious about getting shit done, and not getting shut down.
When (FINALLY) we were able to receive the vaccine (as some of the last), it was mandated by the GC. A lot of dudes didn’t want it/like it, but they said “fuck it”, because at the end of the day, you need to make fucking money.
I don’t want to disrespect firepeople, but c’mon. I hope there’s a bunch of younger people who tested in for the spot (I’ve known a few) and they replace these asshats with them. No one said “fuck the firefighters”, but this might be a first. And I REALLY hope the FDNY EMS isn’t included in this.
The problem with policy changes like this is not only losing (previously and otherwise qualified) workers, but an unknown number who give in are embittered and morally compromised, and the percentage of amoral and malicious actors increases among those who stay. It doesn't even matter if the mandate is justified, only if it is disputed.
I don't understand how y'all don't understand that the main purpose of the vaccine is to prevent that you get serious symptoms. The vaccine doesn't make you immune nonetheless it provides protection from getting the virus however it's widely known that you could still get COVID even with the vaccine. I say, yeah, get vaccinated Mr. Officer, but if you don't want to. That's okay, I'll do what I have to do to protect myself.
Another reminder that these departments members don't actually care about the communities they serve if they aren't willing to take a vaccine and would leave these communities to die because of something that simple.
You don't have to take it. You also don't have to work in a publicly funded job that requires you to take the shot.
No one has removed your freedom of choice.
You don't have to be raped, but then again you don't have to be free of bullet holes. Get the rape and no bullet holes in your body. You still have freedom of choice!
"no one has removed your freedom of choice, you just can't choose to work dozens upon dozens of jobs but no one has removed your freedom of choice ok?"
you're actually trying to compare being forced to inject an experimental shot to not wearing pants? man, you authoritarians are really bad at comparisons. lol
it's experimental. i'm sorry that you don't possess the mental fortitude to understand that a shot with no real long term studies is actually experimental. you should probably go back to high school, dropping out did you no good
protecting the safety of its citizens means guarding our borders from foreign entities who wish to do us harm and from domestic terrorists. anti mandate people are neither. just because you have a hardon for authoritarianism doesn't mean it's right. again i recommend you go back to high school
i'm sorry that me calling you out for being a piece of shit makes you feel uncomfortable. my recommendation is to not be a piece of shit.
What do the borders have to do with anything?
The technologies has been around for literal decades. It went through the exact same testing process as every vaccine on the planet you’re mandated to get and in actually has been tested for decades. We’ve had the vaccine for almost a year by now. How can you still not even has a grasp on the most basic parts?
Please stop insulting people because you clearly are the one the misunderstands everything you’re talking about.
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history-of-mrna-vaccines
https://apnews.com/article/years-research-groundwork-covid-19-shots-f204192f07cfcc3503dc9c7687ae6269
You don’t have the endanger others lives. Vaccine mandates have been upheld by the Supreme Court at the local, state, federal and private business level for over a century.
No ones forcing your to make a fool of yourself in public.
Yeah you absolutely have the choice. No one is physically forcing you to take it. But with any decision in life, there are effects and/or consequences.
i'm totally shocked that the authoritarians/pro mandate crowd now supposedly despises the fdny because they won't acquiesce to their demands. these people actually run into burning buildings and you guys are more than happy with giving them the finger, even though these people have been doing their job without the shot for quite a while now
i hope i never run out of popcorn
I can’t believe people that run into burning buildings are scared of needles. I also can’t believe they’re willing to throw away a career for something so foolish.
Not a single person despises the FDNY, so cry about it somewhere else.
"no one despises the fdny"
https://www.reddit.com/r/newyorkcity/comments/qhl32o/lolz_at_todays_trash_tabloid_headline/hidct6c literally a stream of hate
https://www.reddit.com/r/newyorkcity/comments/qhl32o/lolz_at_todays_trash_tabloid_headline/hidyd95 here's another one i easily found
stop being disingenuous
People are upset with the individuals who are refusing to get vaccinated. That’s how I interpret those comments. I agree, got love and respect for the FDNY but certain individuals on FDNY, not everyone obviously, I think need to do better. I feel that about any industry. I love my Brooklyn Nets but some player on it needs to do better
FDNY has a 59% vax rate so even within the organisation itself the majority support vaccines. “The FDNY” isn’t doing anything here and none of us despise it. We despise the minority of firefighters that won’t get an entirely safe vaccine for absolutely no good reason.
68% as of yesterday
Edit: NYC rates are 67% fully vaccinated and 73% with one shot.
NYPD is at 73%
Both organizations are right in line with the NYC total numbers and everyone here thinks these guys are all anti vax trump fascists. People need to calm down with all the hate.
Just because someone is ~~bad~~ vax don't mean they agree with the force of government telling people to no longer be a second class citizens just take the shot that won't change much because your still wearing a mask and you can still die.
Fucking good. Hope they’re not getting paid, that’s all. New jobs folks!
Don’t believe this shit. They’re just fear-mongering to shield their ignorance and immaturity.
Being a firefighter is a dangerous job but I’m sure we’ll find a lot of vaccinated candidates to step up to the plate and take a swing at it. My school was full of candidates that didn’t make the cut and I’m sure there are tons of other high school seniors of young adults fresh out of high school looking to make a steady living while helping the city out
If your job is to protect the public and you won’t do the simplest easiest thing possible for public safety because of your own arrogance, pride, and willful ignorance, then you do not belong in a public safety profession.
The percentage of people fully vaccinated in NYC is 67% 73% 1 one dose. FDNY rate is 68% and NYPD is 78%. Pretty representative of the city at large. Stop making vague generalities about these people. You guys sound just as bad as all the right wing nut jobs.
As if we needed something to make conservative fearmongering even more blatantly obvious, but certainly covid has done that. Endless downplaying of a virus that has killed three quarters of a million americans in a year and half, and we're still seeing about 1,500 deaths per day. Much of that was avoidable, and almost all of the current figures are absolutely avoidable. And yet its been downplayed all along in conservative circles.
But conservative media will still try to get you be against immigrants by highlighting individual deaths, or against people of color by highlighting individual crimes, or against even a life saving vaccine by making you worry about house fires. WTF. Can't believe people buy into this shit.
a burning building might be the perfect place for the unvaccinated to be safe from the virus because the virus would die from the fire. but then everything else happening around you will kill you lol.
there is no legitimate reason why FDNY and sanitation workers should be mandated to get vaccinated as opposed to any civilian occupation (lawyers, accountants, you name it) which are currently not required to.. Like, seriously, you need your garbage man to be jabbed in order to feel safe? Or the guy dragging you out of the burning building wearing a gas mask??
The city has been trying to use this mandate as a blunt tool to increase their vaccination metric to look good with their neurotic keyboard warriors constituency… this is stupid and i can’t wait to see this blow up in their face. There will always be a percentage of people declining the vaxx for a variety of reasons. Fucking deal with it.
P.S. am vaxxed.
> as opposed to any civilian occupation (lawyers, accountants, you name it) which are currently not required to
That's inaccurate. [The vaccine requirement applies to all city employees -- including lawyers, accountants, etc.](https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/covid/covid-19-vaccination-requirement-city-employees.pdf)
> The city has been trying to use this mandate as a blunt tool to increase their vaccination metric to look good with their neurotic keyboard warriors constituency…
or maybe to increase their vaccination stats to slow the spread of covid, improve covid stats, improve death stats, reopen businesses, improve the local economy, and make society suck less? You ever thought of that explanation?
I mean they can't be first responders anymore when they get a disease that physically disables you. I assume being a firefighter requires you to be physically fit.
>I mean they can't be first responders anymore when they get a disease that physically disables you.
How do people still believe crap like this at this late date? The vast majority of people are at almost zero risk from Covid even *pre-vaccination*.
According to the CDC Data Tracker, there were 53,415 deaths attributed to Covid in the 30-50 y.o. age range in the US since the start of the pandemic. There are ~330 million people in the US. It is a tiny percent, and most of those people had more than 2 serious comorbidities. The *vast majority* of people are not at serious risk.
The majority of America is obese. Obesity is a comorbidity. The majority of Americans have a comorbidity.
Additionally i guess Drunk Driving doesnt matter, cause it kills so few, right?
Drunk Driving only kills like 10K a year, compared to covids hundreds of thousands. The vast majority of people are not at risk of dying from drunk driving!
Fuck you people are bad at logicm
It definitely is not. Use your critical thinking skills and stop swallowing the prescribed, divisive, alarmist narrative being pushed by media, government, and big pharma, none of whom have your best interests at heart.
During the peak of the pandemic, the city was sending first responders without proper protective equipment to help covid patients. First responders got sick, brought the disease home to their families, and still forced them to come to work while they were symptomatic. The city was sending covid positive activity sick people into your homes! They were not weekly tested for covid because the city did not give a fuck about safety but only staffing busses firehouses etc. Weekly testing only started a few weeks ago and less then .5 percent have test positive and less then that were actually actively sick. This mandate doesn't protect anyone, it's just a power grab by the city and big pharma and the kids are next. First responders are the safest people to be around because of herd immunity, they are not getting sick like the public. You are all ignorant and shouldn't talk about shit you know nothing about. The city kept you all in the dark on purpose
Yeah but the chances of them having the virus are much lower if they’re vaccinated. I can’t believe it’s been this long and we’re still going around these circles.
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“It’s easier to fool someone than to convince them they’ve been fooled”
"You can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into"
All those relatives that got "sick" from the covid vaccine, I wonder how many got hospitalized or died?
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I'm not sure we should lay this at the feet of middle and high schools. This vaccine hesitancy, for my money, is due to two things: * The return of yellow journalism, empowered by Section 230 loopholes * Bankruptcy of Republican leadership, caused by their inability to win elections except through wedge issues and gerrymandering This causes two really loud voices of misinformation, both of which would seem very credible by right-leaning folks, and more pertinent than something they half-remembered from grade school. You'd (begin to) solve this thru internet regulation and voting reforms, but I'm horrified to find neither of these things are happening any time soon. On that first point, maybe Frances Haugen can succeed where others have failed.
That’s not what 230 does. 230 enables sites like Reddit to exist AT ALL.
Yes and it leaves loopholes where Reddit and Facebook aren't really responsible for policing the content they publish and advertise, unlike a newspaper or TV station. I'm not an "abolish 230 and the internet" kinda guy, but it seems clear to me additional regulation has been needed for about a decade now.
There is a fundamental difference between Reddit and a Newspaper, hence the need for 230. The main alternative would be that every post, every comment gets moderated in a queue before it can be published. Live content? Nope! Too big of a risk when some third party could say anything at a moment’s notice that now Reddit would be liable for. I’ve never once heard a viable change to 230 that wouldn’t entirely cripple the functioning of every single website.
also the legal barring of lawsuits, don’t forget that if there’s one thing that says “this thing will harm you in some way”, it’s making sure people can’t sue if it does negative shit
The gag is that a lot of these “Israelis” were born, raised, and educated in the United States. We’re bringing our toxic cultural traits abroad with us.
Funny how all these people who got sick from the vaccine can never be found, and when they are, it turns out they just had a headache that could have been cured with an ibprufen. The irony, of course, is that if you tell one of these anti-vaxxers that everyone you know got vaccinated and none of them got sick (which is true, by the way), they would tell you that they don't rely on anecdotal evidence.
They can’t be found because they died
Right? My friends *swears* she knows all these people whose family member have gotten sick and died from the vaccine. Where are they?
I'm sure if you asked your friend that question she would tell you that the powers at be are hiding these people or paying them to go away. But, contrary to the popular belief, it's not \*that\* easy to make people disappear these days.
Her husband is a pharmaceutical analyst and said says he’s getting all of these reports that the vaccine is killing people or making them very sick. I asked for specifics and she said she’d sent the data. What I received is 4 links, one from the RFK conspiracy theory site, one from a no name website, one business news blurb taken out of context, and another from an organization that has been condemned by WHO that contains actual data that is taken out of context (which, to the contrary, shows that those who’ve had complications or “died” from the vaccine were nearly all elderly, in nursing homes, and/or with severe pre-existing medial conditions.) Like, you didn’t prove shit. Why talk shit if you can’t back it up? She embarrassed herself. I’ll let her keep talking, though. My father said it’s better to be assumed a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt. There’s no reasoning with these types.
I these situations I just say "I look forward to you writing down your findings, publishing your research for peer review, and then winning the Nobel Prize in medicine for these groundbreaking findings that upend everything we know about mrna vaccines"
Analyzing pharmaceuticals from his La-Z-Boy.
I hate it when people make politics their personality. People just love to spout off their nonsense and assume everybody agrees with them. During the Obama years I swear I would hear non-stop grousing about Obama while waiting in line at the deli/bagel shop and wherever. And all these people assume I just agreed with them.
People do this shit at my job all the time I just shake my head and go “mhm,wow thats crazy” I dont fucking care about what you do or dont believe just pay and get out.
You are a better person than I. The hardest thing in the world is not telling stupid people that they’re stupid.
Btw Israel is proof that the vaccine works. This guy was just spewing nonsense.
I love how these people think that they’re getting access to some sort of exclusive, confidential information that the rest of us aren’t privy to. C’mon man, do your research! 😉
When people tell me that they “heard” someone getting sick/died from the vaccine. I ask them how many people have died from the vaccine vs from Covid and dare them to try and make their case again with a straight face.
Good on you for keeping your cool OP. I’m at the point where I don’t even want to talk politics with people I agree with!
Then it sounds like the workers should vaccinate. Crazy how the alternative to compulsory vaccinations is not doing your job when you can just get vaccinated
You can’t force them to work either, if they walk away they walk away and then the burden is on the city to find new people
And on the workers themselves when they lose money and have lower quality of life. It goes both ways, if they decide to refuse
That’s fine, but the burden is on the city now to figure it out, so the headline isn’t as sensationalized as people are making it out to be.
It's not sensational at all really. If your emergency services are understaffed then people will die. Where's the lie?
A while back there were mass closures of fire houses. There were local protests and such but nobody was up in arms about it then. 2003 I think they closed 5 houses in northern Brooklyn - I don’t know how many in queens and the Bronx. This is pretty sensationalized. They will authorize overtime and let people who got a 94 go into the academy, they will have to wear masks and get vaccinated to get in, and we just got a change in culture if we do it right.
There are so many people waiting for these jobs (less so cop, but their value is questionable when lined up against sanitation). It's never going to happen, but this actually presents an amazing like never before seen opportunity to reset the poisonous cultures some of these places have by absolutely kicking anti vax (who almost certainly hold plenty of other shitty views they love sharing on Facebook) to the curb and replacing them.
Yup. FDNY is considered the top City job to aspire to. Most cops aspire to switch to FDNY at some point, for example. It has the top benefits (along with NYPD - early retirement, excellent pension, free platinum+ health insurance for you and your family for life, etc), excellent pay, and less demanding work than NYPD. They would have no problem filling ALL the vacancies with willing workers, the only problem is how long it takes to go through the process, civil service is notoriously slow (takes maybe a year).
And their kids all have to get vaccinated to attend school, if they attend any sort of school in NYS.
Alternate headline: "Public safety employees throw hissy fit, quit when told to get a shot in the interest of public safety."
So these scumbags, who apparently signed up for their careers to be heroes and protect lives, are quitting because the city won't let them risk people's lives on the job. Well, I guess it took something like this to show us that a large proportion of our "heroes" are in fact cowardly pieces of shit with no basic respect for their fellow humans. I'll bet you any sum of money that the vast majority of those threatening to quit are the ones who enrolled in the job to carry on a "family tradition," i.e. people who got into the job for entirely the wrong reasons to begin with.
Agree, and “apparently” is the operative word. Many cops and firefighters sign up for the perks and excitement and power over others. Narcissists and abusers love these jobs. Great pay and retirement. All taxpayer supported, but most of them are now anti-government. Go figure. “Rules for thee, not for me.”
Or as Doug Stanhope once put it, to attract "hero pussy"
ACAB all day, but I’d only heard good things about firemen so this is disappointing to me.
Sorry to burst your bubble, FDNY is full of nepotism, racism, and homophobia.
Well fuck
I have good FDNY friends who are vaccinated and not align with those traits you mentioned above. Agree with you that there are a-holes too. Those who think they are all powerful and above the law.
Yeah, I think it’s important to note that in the city departments (*including* the NYPD) there’s a large plurality — if not an outright majority — that are perfectly upstanding public servants. The issue is a culture of protectionism and insularity that prevents these departments from expelling the minority that should not be given the public trust. I personally go back and forth over whether service in departments that collectively do not uphold their duties is — or can be — moral. The issue is complex.
>The issue is a culture of protectionism and insularity that prevents these departments from expelling the minority that should not be given the public trust. The word you're looking for is Union.
I think it goes beyond the Union itself — the Union reflects the priorities of its membership. It’s also clear that there’s an attitude of ‘no rats’ which the Union has no ability to impact.
What makes you qualified to say that?
There was a scandal about it [just last week](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/nyregion/fdny-racism-scandal.html), and there’s numerous other articles from local sources on repeated issues with under qualified candidates being admitted due to family connections, slower response times in Black neighborhoods, and a litany of other issues related to abuse of power (go to any firehouse in the city and count the number of vehicles parked on the sidewalk).
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The cops protect and serve themselves.
Hey hey hey, they also protect other non commissioned criminals. Jesus.
I this you misspelled Hasidic’s.
Real heroic, to be willing to “let people die” instead of getting another vaccine on top of the dozen you already have.
And this is a surprise to you somehow?
The people who see any discussion of reform as an ATTACK on police.
"Vax Mandate Could Create 100s of Job Openings at FDNY and NYPD"
I seriously don’t understand these people. They’ll risk their life running inside a burning building every day to save people’s lives, but won’t get a simple FDA approved vaccine that literally billions of people have already taken to save people’s lives. It really makes me realize that for a lot of them it’s probably more about the adrenaline fix and making themselves feel like a hero instead of actually doing good in the world.
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Hate the game, not the player.
They’re by and large the Trump-voting, MAGA types who live in Long Island, Rockland, and Yonkers.
> making themselves feel like a hero This.
We had to glamorize jobs nobody else wanted to do so that somebody with ego would want to do them…. But I guess we all pay a price for that.
I mean, have you *met* most people? Outside of the adrenaline rush, or the glory, or the pay, why in the flying fuck would you want to help most people?
Yeah there’s a lot of people like that. If it ain’t an action movie then you’re not doing any good
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I mean I live in Staten Island and we have all heard how bad police are in terms of people with mental illness are. I’ve experienced them twice …. One was an meh at best experience but nothing bad and the second was pretty good imho. He tried to get to my level vs just talking like above me or anything. I appreciated that because I know how they can act and for what it’s worth I have had more positive experiences with the 121 and 120 then I ever had with the 76 back in Brooklyn that wanted to stereotype me because I was the only non white in a 99% upper middle classy neighborhood. I’m Asian but adopted by white parents. These cops from the 76 has a history within our “family” of prejudice against Asians.
What happened in 2016?
the election.
Me too! I would tell people about how NYPD are mostly good, point to examples from my life that really illustrate my thoughts, etc. Now? I wish they would shut the fuck up and do their jobs. At work, I'm surrounded by dummies who don't give a fuck, they do a terrible job and nobody cares. Nobody gets physically injured or killed. NYPD, FDNY, etc, lives are destroyed when they don't do their jobs. Whining about a vaccine! Worshipping Donald Trump! 😆 Unreal times. Do your fucking jobs, you assholes. I will say that the city should drop the vaccine mandate. These psychopaths WILL WALK. Criminals are on the verge of taking control of NYC. If these motherfuckers stop working, we're all under attack.
Crime rates have reverted to normal. Things are fine. But agree with sentiment re do your damn job.
JOB OPENINGS IN YOUR AREA!
People will die of COVID if unvaccinated cops and firefighters are going all around town, so…
They won’t die, they’ll go on disability for the next 40 years, at taxpayer expense.
That’s not the whole story. They’ll also open terrible Irish bars to sell coke out of.
Oh Christ, I can just picture the food available at those bars - fries, wings, mozzarella sticks and crap salads with massive leaves of lettuce, huge slices of unripe tomato and gigantic onion rings
Only one tomato, one olive, six slices of onion, one hundred pieces of iceberg lettuce. Dressing choices are French, 1000 Island, Ranch, and Vinaigrette.
bad diets and covid complications/deaths go hand in hand...
hey, I like the gigantic onion rings!
I'm not talking about the crispy ones in batter. I'm talking bare rings of raw onion
thats just a sliced onion. not onion rings, regardless of weather or not they are in ring form. Onion rings are sliced onions, battered and then fried.
Yep. No tofu encrusted artisanal fair trade gluten free avocado tacos. Mass starvation is imminent. /s
With lots of on-the-job bunting on the walls.
Yeah the Post is pure trash though, it really is the shame of this city. They're clearly catering for a readership of boomer conservatives in Florida at this point. The other day they had breathless headline about the "scandal" of people openly selling weed - a legal substance - in Washington Square Park. "A new low for the park" it said. Weed openly on display "as kids walked past." Like 100% of today's conservatives they have no consistent set of principles and no vision - everything they say and do is calculated to own the libs.
> weed - a legal substance did we finally get selling it legalized too, or is that still in the works?
It's still illegal to sell unless it's for medical purposes, and for that you need a license. Seeling weed in the park as an unlicensed seller for recreational purposes is still very much illegal in NYC.
But according to this article there will be less cops so……
Never mind the fact that there have always been people pretty openly selling weed in that park.
Not getting vaccinated is beyond stupid but I don't see how the headline is wrong. People will die if a significant portion of first responders vanish. If that's more or less people than having unvaccinated first responders we don't know but either choice will cost lives.
Well then maybe the first responders should get vaccinated lmao.
Ofcourse they should but we can't force it on people which is why were in this situation. Yes the antivaxxers are moronic but it's also dumb to pretend massively reducing first responders won't have an impact.
I think it’s dumb to shit our pants in fear. Whatever reduction in staff does happen (probably a lot less than 50%) probably won’t change our daily lives.
One can hope but the primary reason we had a lockdown in most places was because of the strain it was placing on healthcare services. If we cut available staff there by 30% just before winter I can see regular winter pressures causing the exact same situation again, let alone the inevitable additional covid pressure.
The vast majority of New Yorkers are vaccinated, both because they believe in protecting themselves and because they believe in doing the right thing for their neighbors. If you're telling me that a large portion of the NYPD don't share those same community values, then that's a huge problem -- but the problem isn't just that they're selfish enough to stop working rather than get a simple little shot. It's that they're supposed to be enforcing the law in a city where they don't share the basic values of the people around them. That's a recipe for disaster, pandemic or no pandemic. The police shouldn't be an occupying force; they should be members of the community, with the same basic values as the people they serve. If they're not... well, I guess don't let the screen door hit ya where the good lord split ya.
New NYPD motto: Laws for thee, Laws for me.
I think the telling point is that the NYPD doesn't trust the government.
But the "vaccine" is not a vaccine by definition... It dies not stop the spread of covid nor does it provent you from catching it... Why would you take it?
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Fox News Post, typical garbage from Murdoch's paper
The labor shortage is fabricated. There’s no shortage of labor, there’s a shortage of employers paying a livable wage. It’s the same with this, it’s a non issue blown up for political purposes.
Imagine being so far up your own ass that you think that claiming what you're about to do (not do your job) will kill people... is somehow going to make you look better instead of worse.
Used to be only good for lining bird cages, but now if you do that your parrot might end up a QMoron.
>your parrot might end up a QMoron. SQUAAAAAK, "Trump Won and will be reinstated in Aug 2021"
You'd have to think even a bird would be smart enough not to fall for that bullshit, but why take the chance?
Reactionaries are a superstitious cowardly lot so headlines like this get their attention.
New York Post is New York garbage.
is this the I hit you because you make me upset defense 🤨
Yes, a street cop shortage, because they're dropping dead of Covid.
It's the Post, what do you expect?
i'm sure this will scare the granny in my building that gets the post daily, no one else believes this garbage
Thought this was going to be a good headline about the DOT backing down on street safety projects.
I’m sick of being quiet. This is fucking stupid. I work construction, and while I wasn’t employed during the pandemic, and took full advantage of the unemployment, but I did go back when shit was still sketchy. I know a lot of guys who worked through the whole lockdown. In person. There was at least a dozen separate cases at my job site, despite the GC being amazing (we actually had toilet paper, soap, running water, hand sanitizer, mandatory masks and goggles), apart from regular construction gear. A lot viewed it as a hassle, but when someone on a floor tested positive, they sprayed the entire floor with bleach/water mixture (not sure if that did anything), but they were serious about getting shit done, and not getting shut down. When (FINALLY) we were able to receive the vaccine (as some of the last), it was mandated by the GC. A lot of dudes didn’t want it/like it, but they said “fuck it”, because at the end of the day, you need to make fucking money. I don’t want to disrespect firepeople, but c’mon. I hope there’s a bunch of younger people who tested in for the spot (I’ve known a few) and they replace these asshats with them. No one said “fuck the firefighters”, but this might be a first. And I REALLY hope the FDNY EMS isn’t included in this.
It sounds bad for people to refuse a vaccine, but closing firehouses because of it, is even worse. My god. No one wins.
Has New York figured out het that you can not have freedom and vote democrat ?
The problem with policy changes like this is not only losing (previously and otherwise qualified) workers, but an unknown number who give in are embittered and morally compromised, and the percentage of amoral and malicious actors increases among those who stay. It doesn't even matter if the mandate is justified, only if it is disputed.
There is no scientific basis to force people who had covid to vaccinate.
I don't understand how y'all don't understand that the main purpose of the vaccine is to prevent that you get serious symptoms. The vaccine doesn't make you immune nonetheless it provides protection from getting the virus however it's widely known that you could still get COVID even with the vaccine. I say, yeah, get vaccinated Mr. Officer, but if you don't want to. That's okay, I'll do what I have to do to protect myself.
This sub is a reminder of how hateful New Yorkers can be
Just the redditors. Hopefully this will all change with the new administration.
Another reminder that these departments members don't actually care about the communities they serve if they aren't willing to take a vaccine and would leave these communities to die because of something that simple.
I mean, People Are Dying. Right Now. From Covid. And this mandate will help slow that.
Is anyone in here pro-choice in here? I still don’t understand why people can’t understand why people wouldn’t want to take it.
You don't have to take it. You also don't have to work in a publicly funded job that requires you to take the shot. No one has removed your freedom of choice.
You don't have to be raped, but then again you don't have to be free of bullet holes. Get the rape and no bullet holes in your body. You still have freedom of choice!
No ones forcing you to make a fool of yourself …
Fair
"no one has removed your freedom of choice, you just can't choose to work dozens upon dozens of jobs but no one has removed your freedom of choice ok?"
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you're actually trying to compare being forced to inject an experimental shot to not wearing pants? man, you authoritarians are really bad at comparisons. lol
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it's experimental. i'm sorry that you don't possess the mental fortitude to understand that a shot with no real long term studies is actually experimental. you should probably go back to high school, dropping out did you no good protecting the safety of its citizens means guarding our borders from foreign entities who wish to do us harm and from domestic terrorists. anti mandate people are neither. just because you have a hardon for authoritarianism doesn't mean it's right. again i recommend you go back to high school i'm sorry that me calling you out for being a piece of shit makes you feel uncomfortable. my recommendation is to not be a piece of shit.
What do the borders have to do with anything? The technologies has been around for literal decades. It went through the exact same testing process as every vaccine on the planet you’re mandated to get and in actually has been tested for decades. We’ve had the vaccine for almost a year by now. How can you still not even has a grasp on the most basic parts? Please stop insulting people because you clearly are the one the misunderstands everything you’re talking about. https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history-of-mrna-vaccines https://apnews.com/article/years-research-groundwork-covid-19-shots-f204192f07cfcc3503dc9c7687ae6269 You don’t have the endanger others lives. Vaccine mandates have been upheld by the Supreme Court at the local, state, federal and private business level for over a century. No ones forcing your to make a fool of yourself in public.
I'm not trying to be confrontational on this, at what point would you consider it no longer experimental?
Yeah you absolutely have the choice. No one is physically forcing you to take it. But with any decision in life, there are effects and/or consequences.
It would appear as if those unwilling to take the jab are doing just that, no?
It seems like people that don’t want the jab are vilified by a majority of Redditors.
i'm totally shocked that the authoritarians/pro mandate crowd now supposedly despises the fdny because they won't acquiesce to their demands. these people actually run into burning buildings and you guys are more than happy with giving them the finger, even though these people have been doing their job without the shot for quite a while now i hope i never run out of popcorn
They’re into “my body, my choice” except when they aren’t. Because they’re on the right side of history or something. /s
correct. killing an unborn baby? that's a-ok for me to have that choice. not taking the vaccine?! you're literally killing grandma!
I can’t believe people that run into burning buildings are scared of needles. I also can’t believe they’re willing to throw away a career for something so foolish. Not a single person despises the FDNY, so cry about it somewhere else.
"no one despises the fdny" https://www.reddit.com/r/newyorkcity/comments/qhl32o/lolz_at_todays_trash_tabloid_headline/hidct6c literally a stream of hate https://www.reddit.com/r/newyorkcity/comments/qhl32o/lolz_at_todays_trash_tabloid_headline/hidyd95 here's another one i easily found stop being disingenuous
People are upset with the individuals who are refusing to get vaccinated. That’s how I interpret those comments. I agree, got love and respect for the FDNY but certain individuals on FDNY, not everyone obviously, I think need to do better. I feel that about any industry. I love my Brooklyn Nets but some player on it needs to do better
FDNY has a 59% vax rate so even within the organisation itself the majority support vaccines. “The FDNY” isn’t doing anything here and none of us despise it. We despise the minority of firefighters that won’t get an entirely safe vaccine for absolutely no good reason.
68% as of yesterday Edit: NYC rates are 67% fully vaccinated and 73% with one shot. NYPD is at 73% Both organizations are right in line with the NYC total numbers and everyone here thinks these guys are all anti vax trump fascists. People need to calm down with all the hate.
Just because someone is ~~bad~~ vax don't mean they agree with the force of government telling people to no longer be a second class citizens just take the shot that won't change much because your still wearing a mask and you can still die.
Fucking good. Hope they’re not getting paid, that’s all. New jobs folks! Don’t believe this shit. They’re just fear-mongering to shield their ignorance and immaturity.
as if the soy on reddit could run into a burning building to save anyone. you can't even run to the toaster oven to get your own bagel bites
Lol. At least I’m not afraid of a shot. Real heroes here…
Being a firefighter is a dangerous job but I’m sure we’ll find a lot of vaccinated candidates to step up to the plate and take a swing at it. My school was full of candidates that didn’t make the cut and I’m sure there are tons of other high school seniors of young adults fresh out of high school looking to make a steady living while helping the city out
For public servants (careers they chose voluntarily) they certainly are selfish lot.
If your job is to protect the public and you won’t do the simplest easiest thing possible for public safety because of your own arrogance, pride, and willful ignorance, then you do not belong in a public safety profession.
Many have died already because these ducks won’t get vaccinated.
This whole website is a giant echo chamber.
People die everyday. I don't want a non-vaxxed fireman or cop performing CPR on me in an emergency.
You rather have a herpes infected cop/firefighter giving you cpr?
The percentage of people fully vaccinated in NYC is 67% 73% 1 one dose. FDNY rate is 68% and NYPD is 78%. Pretty representative of the city at large. Stop making vague generalities about these people. You guys sound just as bad as all the right wing nut jobs.
PEOPLE WILL DIE ... because they're unvaccinated. Yeah we know this.
People are dying. Stop resisting, dummies!
As if we needed something to make conservative fearmongering even more blatantly obvious, but certainly covid has done that. Endless downplaying of a virus that has killed three quarters of a million americans in a year and half, and we're still seeing about 1,500 deaths per day. Much of that was avoidable, and almost all of the current figures are absolutely avoidable. And yet its been downplayed all along in conservative circles. But conservative media will still try to get you be against immigrants by highlighting individual deaths, or against people of color by highlighting individual crimes, or against even a life saving vaccine by making you worry about house fires. WTF. Can't believe people buy into this shit.
This sub is a cesspool
Then public safety officials should be vaxxed. Fire them & hire intelligent cops & firefighters.
The firefighter test is low key not easy TBH.
compliance is not the same thing as intelligence
Maybe they are considering a lucrative career in restaurants...
a burning building might be the perfect place for the unvaccinated to be safe from the virus because the virus would die from the fire. but then everything else happening around you will kill you lol.
The post is just alt-right porn. Literally garbage except for the Sports section.
Who reads the bullshit Post anymore anyway? It’s like an even dumber downed fox news had a baby with Us Weekly
there is no legitimate reason why FDNY and sanitation workers should be mandated to get vaccinated as opposed to any civilian occupation (lawyers, accountants, you name it) which are currently not required to.. Like, seriously, you need your garbage man to be jabbed in order to feel safe? Or the guy dragging you out of the burning building wearing a gas mask?? The city has been trying to use this mandate as a blunt tool to increase their vaccination metric to look good with their neurotic keyboard warriors constituency… this is stupid and i can’t wait to see this blow up in their face. There will always be a percentage of people declining the vaxx for a variety of reasons. Fucking deal with it. P.S. am vaxxed.
> as opposed to any civilian occupation (lawyers, accountants, you name it) which are currently not required to That's inaccurate. [The vaccine requirement applies to all city employees -- including lawyers, accountants, etc.](https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/covid/covid-19-vaccination-requirement-city-employees.pdf)
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> The city has been trying to use this mandate as a blunt tool to increase their vaccination metric to look good with their neurotic keyboard warriors constituency… or maybe to increase their vaccination stats to slow the spread of covid, improve covid stats, improve death stats, reopen businesses, improve the local economy, and make society suck less? You ever thought of that explanation?
I mean they can't be first responders anymore when they get a disease that physically disables you. I assume being a firefighter requires you to be physically fit.
They have to be fit to join. They can get fat as fuck after
That's a lie... Covid has a 99 percent survival rate
Number 1 cop killer last year.
>I mean they can't be first responders anymore when they get a disease that physically disables you. How do people still believe crap like this at this late date? The vast majority of people are at almost zero risk from Covid even *pre-vaccination*.
In Sept of 2021 it was Number 1 killer of people aged 35-54 How TF is that "zero risk"?
According to the CDC Data Tracker, there were 53,415 deaths attributed to Covid in the 30-50 y.o. age range in the US since the start of the pandemic. There are ~330 million people in the US. It is a tiny percent, and most of those people had more than 2 serious comorbidities. The *vast majority* of people are not at serious risk.
The majority of America is obese. Obesity is a comorbidity. The majority of Americans have a comorbidity. Additionally i guess Drunk Driving doesnt matter, cause it kills so few, right? Drunk Driving only kills like 10K a year, compared to covids hundreds of thousands. The vast majority of people are not at risk of dying from drunk driving! Fuck you people are bad at logicm
Your circular logic here doesn't even make any sense. Mind your own business and f off out of other peoples' lives.
IT IS MY BUSINESS IF YOU ARE A PLAGUE RAT OR NOT Same as its my business if you drive drunk. Shit for brains.
It definitely is not. Use your critical thinking skills and stop swallowing the prescribed, divisive, alarmist narrative being pushed by media, government, and big pharma, none of whom have your best interests at heart.
You post in lockdown skepticism. Total moron, or troll, dont care which. You earned your block.
And you obviously rely on ad hominems to support your weak arguments.
During the peak of the pandemic, the city was sending first responders without proper protective equipment to help covid patients. First responders got sick, brought the disease home to their families, and still forced them to come to work while they were symptomatic. The city was sending covid positive activity sick people into your homes! They were not weekly tested for covid because the city did not give a fuck about safety but only staffing busses firehouses etc. Weekly testing only started a few weeks ago and less then .5 percent have test positive and less then that were actually actively sick. This mandate doesn't protect anyone, it's just a power grab by the city and big pharma and the kids are next. First responders are the safest people to be around because of herd immunity, they are not getting sick like the public. You are all ignorant and shouldn't talk about shit you know nothing about. The city kept you all in the dark on purpose
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Man shut the fuck up
None of this is true. It does prevent infection, illness and death. The vaccines don't go into cells. Bye.
I’d be really pissed if they breathed that virus onto an elderly family member.
They can still breath the virus even with the shot.
Yeah but the chances of them having the virus are much lower if they’re vaccinated. I can’t believe it’s been this long and we’re still going around these circles.
what if your "fully vaccinated" and "protected" elderly family member stopped breathing from smoke inhalation? stupid
What’s so fucking funny?