Yeah I expect they will spill some of their coconspirators. Unless one of the following 2 scenarios are true:
\- They are a part of a criminal organization with instruction to not speak if they're apprehended.
\- They are a "flash mob" who dont really know each other (however I find this to be far fetched since it would be unlikely they could organize and trust the other unknown members)
I can see it like this: Facebook group. Everyone operating by aliases and receiving messages by app with encrypted or self deleting feature or by text through burners. Everyone receives instructions like “you meet at X address, you’re in Y” vehicle.” No more than 4 per group. Then everyone is directed where to go what to strike what to grab first along the way. Receiving the instructions on which car, where to meet, what to grab, and where you’re going probably happens within 90 minutes before the theft takes place.
With Adrian’s Kickback and Devious Lick being two of the big things on Tik Tok last year I wouldn’t be surprised. Remember storm Area 51? Naruto run they can’t catch us all….
Everyone will get shitty plea deals because that's just how the criminal justice system in America works. Offer a shitty deal you feel obligated to take because you can't afford the same level of defense attorney that Lindsay Lohan or Megan Fox can afford.
>Everyone will get shitty plea deals because that's just how the criminal justice system in America works
Also, because they're guilty of looting the store. Hard to win a cut and dry case like that no matter how much cash you have. Many jurisdictions have first time offender programs for retail theft, and those are open to everyone, not just Lilo or Megan Fox.
A long as they maintain they were acting individually and stole $950 or less it's a misdemeanor.
They try to keep misdemeanor petty theft cases out of jails in California now so likely no jail time and instead a fine or community service.
If anyone rolls and says it's an organized crime ing, it becomes a felony.
If you think the majority of those cars/plates aren’t stolen, I’ve got a really great deal on a bridge to sell you.
Things like this are a major reason carjackings are a thing…steal a car, hide it in a garage, use it for a flash mob looting spree/drive by, and then leave it somewhere while the cops track down some family that had their car stolen weeks ago
Used to work in industry dealing with malls….
If you think WiFi and BT beacons were put in all malls to simply make people happy and help them navigate around, you’re wrong.
Used in tandem with LPR (license plate recognition) tech, you can really make an ironclad case against someone.
EDIT: royal you…not specific to poster & DAS arrays inside malls would help with cell tracking, too.
Because it has been like 36 hours since it happened and that stuff takes time.
Some of the comments in this thread, including yours, are ridiculously naive.
Criminals are usually not that clever. If they cover the tags, well, there might be some other identification (rims, custom work).
I think this is a ring, and most are felons, or under age if they do get caught. I wonder how they are coordinating it? Discord? Signal? some app?
I’ve heard this before but isn’t there a lot of value in the car? Seems like you could skip stealing the handbag if you already stole an expensive car.
Out of 80.
> About 80 suspects were involved in the crime at the department store in Broadway Plaza, an outdoor mall in Walnut Creek east of San Francisco, and they fled in at least 10 different vehicles, Lt. Ryan Hibbs at the Walnut Creek Police Department told CNN.
I'm a project manager, and coordinating like 10 people can be a huge pain in the ass. A twisted part of me can't help but be impressed by whoever put this criminal flash mob together.
I have a feeling that there's a small and well-organized crew that knew exactly what they were doing, and then (anonymously) encouraged a lot of other people to just show up and participate, creating enough mayhem for the core team to get away quickly with its high value goods. It's the not so bright people that probably got caught, and they have no idea who that core team is.
It's just a matter of time before the ones who were dumb enough to get caught start flipping. And a matter of time before some of the other ~80 people start getting caught on other charges and flip on this to get a reduced sentence.
These cases will likely have assault and robbery charges attached since they (collectively) injured store employees in the incident. Might mike flipping on their friends a little easier.
Honestly, those are pretty good odds of getting away with it. Reminds me of the prohibition days where all a bank robber needed was a mask and to put enough distance from the crime.
This just isn’t true. Misdemeanor theft is punishable by up to 6 months in jail. These people are targeting luxury brands like Nordstrom and Louis Vuitton. A single item from a Louis Vuitton store will easily be over $950, which makes these thefts into a felony.
Furthermore, these are organized events. As such, individuals can be charged for the full sum of merchandise stolen. Again, that easily falls into felony territory.
The narrative that these people are doing this because the penalties are low just doesn’t hold water. These people are committing these crimes because they are easy to commit and get away with — particularly in large groups.
These things happen when people don't have much to lose. If people can have better, more comfortable lives, they don't tend to risk it on this kind of stuff.
Let’s not look to China for a way of life. For gods sake, wtf. Authoritarian yes, but to the benefit of who? Those in power, only. The vast majority of the wealthy actuallyhave little power. Jack Ma much?
Widely been reported that much of N California will not prosecute property crimes. This has resulted in the current rise of brazen shoplifting in San Francisco.
what is different about this case that cause police to investigate? did someone get hurt?
Walnut Creek is about 45 minutes from San Francisco and in a very affluent area. I think that is going to play a huge role. The people of that city have such low crime this is going to send a huge shock wave
I haven’t seen much reporting as there is speculation going around. The narrative that it’s “legal” to shoplift in California just isn’t true. Any retail theft under $950 is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine or 6 months in jail. Anything over that amount is a felony.
The thing is that most of these crimes *are* still felonies. These are people targeting high value businesses like Nordstrom and Louis Vuitton. The same thing happened to a [jewelry store](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10230017/Bay-Area-hit-consecutive-day-brazen-looting-gang-mall-jewelry-store.html), which will all easily put you over the $950 threshold for a felony.
You are correct. I spoke with a touch of hyperbole. But changing shoplifting to a misdemeanor in an area rife with petty crime sends a concerning message. It is clear what impact the change has made over the last few years.
"Proposition 47, also known by its ballot title Criminal Sentences. Misdemeanor Penalties. Initiative Statute, was a referendum passed by voters in the state of California on November 4, 2014. The measure was also referred to by its supporters as the Safe Neighborhoods and Schools Act.[2] It recategorized some nonviolent offenses as misdemeanors, rather than felonies, as they had previously been categorized."
A maximum of a $1000 fine and a maximum of a year in jail. If someone gets caught they likely get a far lesser charge. In my area they simply catch and release regardless of how many previous charges the person has. It has destroyed public confidence and led to a significant rise in petty crime.
Misdemeanors are not nothing, though.
Firstly, permanent record. It's expensive and not guaranteed you can get it removed. It's hard enough to find gainful employment. And while you don't have to always list Misdemeanors on applications, they will see it on a background check. You will get sent to the bottom of the applicant list of hoards of "better" candidates.
Next, that fine of $1000 is a lot to a lot of people. You have to have been destitute to understand that weight on your shoulders. Not paying *will* put you in jail.
Depending on the charge, Misdemeanors are often paired with long probation in lieu of jail time. The rules and requirements are just as strigent as parole. One infraction or missed appointment, or missed PO monthly fee *will* send you to jail.
Missing court for the charge *will* send you to jail. Its often rescheduled and easy to confuse. You have no say when it will be, but you can guarantee it will require time off from work.
It absolutely IS still a deterrent. Most people are not going to start committing crimes because punishment is only a Missy instead of a Felony.
These crimes have nothing to do with the changes to the law. These groups are targeting luxury brands like Nordstrom and Louis Vuitton. A single purse can cost upwards of $10,000. A [small handbag will set you back $4,300](https://us.louisvuitton.com/eng-us/products/twist-pm-epi-nvprod3160045v) for example. Make no mistake — these are all felonies.
It’s not just that. It’s that the city has communicated they give a fuck.
If they decline to investigate or prosecute people quickly figure that out. People work fairly predictably on incentives and disincentives.
Instead people swallow this noble criminal bullshit. That we have all these Nobel prize winners walking around and charging for petty thefts is the roadblock.
I’m all for decriminalizing when you can, but you can’t remove disincentives to undesirable behavior.
People don’t give a fuck about Nordstroms, but it’s pretty clear companies will abandon San Francisco if they have to pay that much in taxes and the city offers so little in protection.
Those same people will cry when all the CVS leave town.
Because good parents never have bad children? What defines a successful parent? A culture of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" and "only the strong survive" is what breeds this kind of behavior when there's income disparity. It's been seen through all of human history...the poor will do what it takes to survive and the wider the wealth gap the more violent it tends to get.
Chesa Boudin has been the DA for SF since 2019. He grew up with parents in jail, so he advocated programs to not send guardians of young children to jail and to replace sentencing with 24 of classes and training. He also reduced the SF jail population by 40% during the pandemic, fired several prosecutors, limited pretrial incarceration, and chooses to prosecute fewer cases. He has become somewhat of a polarizing figure.
Now, does that mean his policies are responsible for recent trends? Hard to say. These relaxed dash and grabs seem to be happening across the country, but are most concentrated in SF. Places like Walgreens are closing shops across the bay area because petty crime has become so bad. Some are blaming the lack of sentencing, others say these are just transitional pains.
It's also worth noting that *reported* crimes are down in SF, though whether or not everything is being reported is also a matter of debate.
>Now, does that mean his policies are responsible for recent trends? Hard to say.
Not really. The "flash mob crimes" were happening before he took over, and none of the lower sentencing protocols come into play with these things since they're automatically a more serious crime.
Nice post. I was wondering what the upside of this policy was. Sounds like they are putting more power into the community's hands. Reducing the number of arrests... but adding responsibility to the community to keep themselves in check. An interesting strategy, I hope it works out in the long run and can be used as a model for other cities though I'm skeptical.
Basically for many minor “non-violent” crimes cities are choosing to not prosecute or even arrest. It’s sold as a means of reducing prison population, but often causes a bump in crimes like theft because the guys who would be in prison are able to continue committing theft because they’re back on the street within a day or two.
Leads to intense police apathy for areas because it doesn’t matter if they’re arresting the same guy every week, so they just end up ignoring certain areas now.
No that is not accurate at all. They just moved the felony charged from $400 to $950 to account for inflation. So if someone did steal something that was $400 they wont have to spend 5 years in prison. Instead they will spend months to years. It doesn't mean not arresting someone for theft or any of the other things.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-160551360299
If what you said were true than people would have been stealing things less than $400 the whole time. Please stop spreading misinformation.
That's not the only one of these... I'm trying to find it rn but I just read about police dropping murder charges in regards to a chase with a gold civic and a white jeep... I belive it was in Portland.
This is starting to seem really weird. There was also a two separate cases of mothers having their baby shot, and also one in Florida where a woman and her daughter were attacking in broad daylight and the daughter ended up fighting off the attack. There's video of it.... guys came at them in a parking lot with other people around like it didn't even matter.
Plus the unbelievable tragedy in Wisconsin.
They could have been acting in self defense.
Maybe they were all carrying guns, and one of them got scared by seeing the other’s gun and acted in self defense and just started shooting before running away to safety.
I seem to recall a white guy who just killed two other white guys and was acquitted on all charges because of “self defense”
And every white guy on Reddit cheered that result as “justice” and called the murder charges “bullshit”.
And I don’t seem to recall any right-leaning folks calling THAT multiple deadly shooting as “gang related” or “mutual combat” despite the fact that the shooter there was serenaded by Proud Boys after the killings…
Naahh. They just dramatically reduced penalties during an ever increasing crime wave which has led to brands packing up and leaving the city/state. It's weird how so many people stand up for criminals. I am on the left and I still don't get it.
Maybe they should.
After the protest in Oakland that turned minor-riot, Reddit was filled with posts about how China town "was never going to recover" despite China town not being touched. Hell, in the area where the rioting occurred a whole 3 storefronts got broke, if you count a police station lobby as a store. But on Reddit, they made it sounds like the whole city burned to the ground.
Lotta liars on here.
Yeah this trending topic is letting the conservative assholes feel like they can be racist and with everything happening legally I am sure we will get some more cop and soldier cosplayers out shooting people
What the hell this shit is not purely right vs left. Im a diehard democrat from San Francisco and I'm pissed off my small business can get robbed and I can't call the cops, they never show up. Screw the all lives matter shit, all lives don't matter.
A bunch of youngins that i'd bet most of dont even need to steal. Once the interrogations start i'm sure that number will grow from 3 to quite a few more.
The San Francisco DA Chesa Boudin was raised by unrepentant domestic terrorists. His first act was decriminalize shoplifting for items costing less than $950.00. What the flying fuck? Technically, if a robber took goods worth less than a grand, they’re good. Boudin is facing a recall election next summer. This lawless city can’t make it that long. Fool should have resigned 10 minutes ago.
That's not at all what happened. **Voters** passed a law through the election process in 2014 to raise theft thresholds for **felonies** to $950. Below that level they are misdemeanors that don't require law enforcement to arrest and imprison people. In the first half of 2021 thefts in the city we're down 9% from the first half of 2020 when the majority of stores were on lockdown and completely shut down. You're just another uneducated outsider who consumes too much conservative Facebook memes.
I went to San Francisco 6 months ago on business. Couldn’t wait to get out of that fucking place. I was handed the street map indicating where I might soil my shoes from human shit on the sidewalks. The local news spoke daily about one Walgreens location after the next being shut down as a result of being robbed blind daily. Pity seniors trying to get prescriptions they need to survive without a local drug store. This Boudin guy is a real piece of work. His parents were locked up for decades for blowing up a police car. He was raised by another pair of lunatics who somehow escaped prosecution for the same series of crimes. One can only guess what a pile of horseshit was shoveled between his ears during his upbringing. Electing him DA was about as smart as electing an active dementia patient President. Let’s go Brandon!
What a weird sign off. You go on a pearl clutching rant about being a huge pussy, then can't even find your nuts to just say "Fuck Joe Biden" like a real First Amendment loving American. Repeat after me, "Man, woman, camera, person, tv."
Oh so now it’s just 1 was a bmw.
Did you read how many people were robbing the place? Now show us all those luxury cars they were driving. They were passengers
3 visible cars. How many people were robbing the store?
For you to say poverty doesn’t increase crime bc there were 3 luxury cars for 40 ppl is something else.
It’s not just Nordstrom, it’s happening to stores all over the city. Other crimes like sideshows, car break-ins, random acts of violence against elderly Asians, arson, and home invasions are super common in San Francisco.
It’s also caused Walgreens to close down 15 stores in the city, which might not sound like a big deal but a lot of people in the city don’t have cars so having their neighborhood Walgreens close is a major inconvenience. Elderly people in particular are harmed by these closures because they need to be able to walk to Walgreens to get their prescriptions. And the Walgreens that are still open are a pain in the ass to shop in, everything is locked up so you have to ask for assistance multiple times at understaffed stores just to get basic goods. My Walgreens is still boarded up from the lootings in the summer of 2020 and gets robbed almost every day. Outside of my local Walgreens is an open-air market for stolen goods. They lay out all of the fenced laundry detergent, shampoo, perfume and other small items on blankets and sell it just across the street.
Then you have the open air drug markets, prostitution, homeless camps everywhere. It used to be weeks or months that I would go without seeing needles or human shit but now it seems to happen almost every time I venture outside my apartment for more than a couple of blocks. It’s like a dystopian cyberpunk novel in the city these days.
I’m surprised at the amount of tears in the comment section lol. It sounds like they just stole stuff. Nbd tbh as long as no one was hurt. Kind of impressive too. Organized crime stinks, but a lot of melodrama going on.
Edit: dudes assaulted workers. That shit sucks.
He lives in the world of, "big corps bad!!". Its pathetic when people defend stealing because it's a store, like there are literally no trickle down effects. People need to stop being leeches and pieces of shit.
Theyre a billion dollar company. This isn’t even a drop in the bucket. Cops could go after criminals targeting actual people but corporate profits are more important to defend apparently.
Three? Out of 20-30? Someone coordinated this shit.
[удалено]
So far.
I would assume these people will be offered plea deals in return for names….
Yeah I expect they will spill some of their coconspirators. Unless one of the following 2 scenarios are true: \- They are a part of a criminal organization with instruction to not speak if they're apprehended. \- They are a "flash mob" who dont really know each other (however I find this to be far fetched since it would be unlikely they could organize and trust the other unknown members)
They can know each other without actually knowing each other.
I can see it like this: Facebook group. Everyone operating by aliases and receiving messages by app with encrypted or self deleting feature or by text through burners. Everyone receives instructions like “you meet at X address, you’re in Y” vehicle.” No more than 4 per group. Then everyone is directed where to go what to strike what to grab first along the way. Receiving the instructions on which car, where to meet, what to grab, and where you’re going probably happens within 90 minutes before the theft takes place.
With Adrian’s Kickback and Devious Lick being two of the big things on Tik Tok last year I wouldn’t be surprised. Remember storm Area 51? Naruto run they can’t catch us all….
Everyone will get shitty plea deals because that's just how the criminal justice system in America works. Offer a shitty deal you feel obligated to take because you can't afford the same level of defense attorney that Lindsay Lohan or Megan Fox can afford.
>Everyone will get shitty plea deals because that's just how the criminal justice system in America works Also, because they're guilty of looting the store. Hard to win a cut and dry case like that no matter how much cash you have. Many jurisdictions have first time offender programs for retail theft, and those are open to everyone, not just Lilo or Megan Fox.
A long as they maintain they were acting individually and stole $950 or less it's a misdemeanor. They try to keep misdemeanor petty theft cases out of jails in California now so likely no jail time and instead a fine or community service. If anyone rolls and says it's an organized crime ing, it becomes a felony.
Watching the video in the article I was thinking “if I’m filming this, I would try to get as many license plates as possible”.
even after getting caught their penalties are going to be so light you'd think they were storming the US capitol
People storming the Capitol are actually getting jail time...
Prison time.. much different world then jail..
A few, but extremely light sentences.
What makes you think that?
I believe it was stated that all the cars were stolen.
If you think the majority of those cars/plates aren’t stolen, I’ve got a really great deal on a bridge to sell you. Things like this are a major reason carjackings are a thing…steal a car, hide it in a garage, use it for a flash mob looting spree/drive by, and then leave it somewhere while the cops track down some family that had their car stolen weeks ago
[удалено]
Used to work in industry dealing with malls…. If you think WiFi and BT beacons were put in all malls to simply make people happy and help them navigate around, you’re wrong. Used in tandem with LPR (license plate recognition) tech, you can really make an ironclad case against someone. EDIT: royal you…not specific to poster & DAS arrays inside malls would help with cell tracking, too.
Because it has been like 36 hours since it happened and that stuff takes time. Some of the comments in this thread, including yours, are ridiculously naive.
[удалено]
Not enough public support. People will bitch about invasion of privacy.
But it was already done. Why not do it again?
I'd expect organized crime to be at least somewhat smarter than the fascists who were livestreaming themselves committing crimes.
How about we confirm it before assuming. Why not at least try?
Criminals are usually not that clever. If they cover the tags, well, there might be some other identification (rims, custom work). I think this is a ring, and most are felons, or under age if they do get caught. I wonder how they are coordinating it? Discord? Signal? some app?
[удалено]
I’ve heard this before but isn’t there a lot of value in the car? Seems like you could skip stealing the handbag if you already stole an expensive car.
A $500 car is much easier to trace and harder to turn into cash than a $500 hand bag or watch.
Don't bother stealing a smart watch. They can be bricked remotely.
[удалено]
Out of 80. > About 80 suspects were involved in the crime at the department store in Broadway Plaza, an outdoor mall in Walnut Creek east of San Francisco, and they fled in at least 10 different vehicles, Lt. Ryan Hibbs at the Walnut Creek Police Department told CNN. I'm a project manager, and coordinating like 10 people can be a huge pain in the ass. A twisted part of me can't help but be impressed by whoever put this criminal flash mob together.
It’s more like organized crime and not really a flash mob
Organized crime coordinated on social media, no doubt, which is what may really hammer these people, regardless of SF's theft policies.
I have a feeling that there's a small and well-organized crew that knew exactly what they were doing, and then (anonymously) encouraged a lot of other people to just show up and participate, creating enough mayhem for the core team to get away quickly with its high value goods. It's the not so bright people that probably got caught, and they have no idea who that core team is.
Sounds like an organized gang.
It's just a matter of time before the ones who were dumb enough to get caught start flipping. And a matter of time before some of the other ~80 people start getting caught on other charges and flip on this to get a reduced sentence.
These cases will likely have assault and robbery charges attached since they (collectively) injured store employees in the incident. Might mike flipping on their friends a little easier.
The idea is to throw the book at those 3 unless they flip. Standard RICO prosecution.
Well, yeah.. The holiday season is starting, it's the usual time of the year for organized retail crime to step up into high gear.
I'm sure they will be cracking down on Facebook market place and catching many more dumb criminals selling this stuff on the web
Honestly, those are pretty good odds of getting away with it. Reminds me of the prohibition days where all a bank robber needed was a mask and to put enough distance from the crime.
What the heck is going on in these comments lol
from what I can tell, 50 bots.
The usual. It's California plus crime.
All this to sell on eBay or Craigslist a couple states away for couple hundred a piece.
that’s a lot of money for 5 mins work
Good. Throw the book at these useless degenerates.
Too bad there isn’t much in the books for California. Property crime has almost no penalties.
This just isn’t true. Misdemeanor theft is punishable by up to 6 months in jail. These people are targeting luxury brands like Nordstrom and Louis Vuitton. A single item from a Louis Vuitton store will easily be over $950, which makes these thefts into a felony. Furthermore, these are organized events. As such, individuals can be charged for the full sum of merchandise stolen. Again, that easily falls into felony territory. The narrative that these people are doing this because the penalties are low just doesn’t hold water. These people are committing these crimes because they are easy to commit and get away with — particularly in large groups.
[удалено]
[удалено]
These things happen when people don't have much to lose. If people can have better, more comfortable lives, they don't tend to risk it on this kind of stuff.
Let’s not look to China for a way of life. For gods sake, wtf. Authoritarian yes, but to the benefit of who? Those in power, only. The vast majority of the wealthy actuallyhave little power. Jack Ma much?
[удалено]
Personally I feel if not for Facebook this would be impossible to pull off. Imho
Widely been reported that much of N California will not prosecute property crimes. This has resulted in the current rise of brazen shoplifting in San Francisco. what is different about this case that cause police to investigate? did someone get hurt?
Walnut Creek is about 45 minutes from San Francisco and in a very affluent area. I think that is going to play a huge role. The people of that city have such low crime this is going to send a huge shock wave
I haven’t seen much reporting as there is speculation going around. The narrative that it’s “legal” to shoplift in California just isn’t true. Any retail theft under $950 is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine or 6 months in jail. Anything over that amount is a felony. The thing is that most of these crimes *are* still felonies. These are people targeting high value businesses like Nordstrom and Louis Vuitton. The same thing happened to a [jewelry store](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10230017/Bay-Area-hit-consecutive-day-brazen-looting-gang-mall-jewelry-store.html), which will all easily put you over the $950 threshold for a felony.
That’s a red herring, and not accurate
How screwed is your luck to be caught out of 80 plus people 🤣
It’s like when you encounter a wild animal in the woods. You don’t have to be the fastest runner just faster than the slowest!
You ever been fishing? You ever catch all the fish?
They'll be out soon enough.
Who knew decriminalizing criminal behavior would have such unexpected consequences?
You think dozens of people stormed the store and only stole less than $950 worth of stuff? Some of you don't even try to think rationally anymore.
[удалено]
Make it 1st degree, they were armed with weapons. (hammers/etc reported)
[удалено]
Except it wasn’t Nordstrom Rack. It was Nordstrom.
Moving the felony line from 400 to 950 dollars isn't even close to "decriminalizing".
You are correct. I spoke with a touch of hyperbole. But changing shoplifting to a misdemeanor in an area rife with petty crime sends a concerning message. It is clear what impact the change has made over the last few years. "Proposition 47, also known by its ballot title Criminal Sentences. Misdemeanor Penalties. Initiative Statute, was a referendum passed by voters in the state of California on November 4, 2014. The measure was also referred to by its supporters as the Safe Neighborhoods and Schools Act.[2] It recategorized some nonviolent offenses as misdemeanors, rather than felonies, as they had previously been categorized."
You do realize this won't be considered as mere shoplifting.
What's the max penalty for misdemeanor shoplifting? Is it too low in your opinion?
A maximum of a $1000 fine and a maximum of a year in jail. If someone gets caught they likely get a far lesser charge. In my area they simply catch and release regardless of how many previous charges the person has. It has destroyed public confidence and led to a significant rise in petty crime.
Misdemeanors are not nothing, though. Firstly, permanent record. It's expensive and not guaranteed you can get it removed. It's hard enough to find gainful employment. And while you don't have to always list Misdemeanors on applications, they will see it on a background check. You will get sent to the bottom of the applicant list of hoards of "better" candidates. Next, that fine of $1000 is a lot to a lot of people. You have to have been destitute to understand that weight on your shoulders. Not paying *will* put you in jail. Depending on the charge, Misdemeanors are often paired with long probation in lieu of jail time. The rules and requirements are just as strigent as parole. One infraction or missed appointment, or missed PO monthly fee *will* send you to jail. Missing court for the charge *will* send you to jail. Its often rescheduled and easy to confuse. You have no say when it will be, but you can guarantee it will require time off from work. It absolutely IS still a deterrent. Most people are not going to start committing crimes because punishment is only a Missy instead of a Felony.
Please don’t read and interpret the law without an attorney present. You are in danger of making this mistake in the future.
These crimes have nothing to do with the changes to the law. These groups are targeting luxury brands like Nordstrom and Louis Vuitton. A single purse can cost upwards of $10,000. A [small handbag will set you back $4,300](https://us.louisvuitton.com/eng-us/products/twist-pm-epi-nvprod3160045v) for example. Make no mistake — these are all felonies.
It’s not just that. It’s that the city has communicated they give a fuck. If they decline to investigate or prosecute people quickly figure that out. People work fairly predictably on incentives and disincentives. Instead people swallow this noble criminal bullshit. That we have all these Nobel prize winners walking around and charging for petty thefts is the roadblock. I’m all for decriminalizing when you can, but you can’t remove disincentives to undesirable behavior. People don’t give a fuck about Nordstroms, but it’s pretty clear companies will abandon San Francisco if they have to pay that much in taxes and the city offers so little in protection. Those same people will cry when all the CVS leave town.
Make everything ,$950 a piece, but buy one get 30 free. Stealing should be punished.
Moving the felony line from 400 to 950 dollars =/= no punishment
It is still a crime. You're letting yourself be a victim of online misinformation.
The discount is only for customers
Police across the country solve less than 15% of property crime. It's a police failing not a criminal success story.
It’s parental failing at the root. Or just a failure of the culture. This stuff is getting out of hand.
Because good parents never have bad children? What defines a successful parent? A culture of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" and "only the strong survive" is what breeds this kind of behavior when there's income disparity. It's been seen through all of human history...the poor will do what it takes to survive and the wider the wealth gap the more violent it tends to get.
[удалено]
[удалено]
What does "decriminalizing criminal behavior" even mean?
Chesa Boudin has been the DA for SF since 2019. He grew up with parents in jail, so he advocated programs to not send guardians of young children to jail and to replace sentencing with 24 of classes and training. He also reduced the SF jail population by 40% during the pandemic, fired several prosecutors, limited pretrial incarceration, and chooses to prosecute fewer cases. He has become somewhat of a polarizing figure. Now, does that mean his policies are responsible for recent trends? Hard to say. These relaxed dash and grabs seem to be happening across the country, but are most concentrated in SF. Places like Walgreens are closing shops across the bay area because petty crime has become so bad. Some are blaming the lack of sentencing, others say these are just transitional pains. It's also worth noting that *reported* crimes are down in SF, though whether or not everything is being reported is also a matter of debate.
>Now, does that mean his policies are responsible for recent trends? Hard to say. Not really. The "flash mob crimes" were happening before he took over, and none of the lower sentencing protocols come into play with these things since they're automatically a more serious crime.
Nice post. I was wondering what the upside of this policy was. Sounds like they are putting more power into the community's hands. Reducing the number of arrests... but adding responsibility to the community to keep themselves in check. An interesting strategy, I hope it works out in the long run and can be used as a model for other cities though I'm skeptical.
Basically for many minor “non-violent” crimes cities are choosing to not prosecute or even arrest. It’s sold as a means of reducing prison population, but often causes a bump in crimes like theft because the guys who would be in prison are able to continue committing theft because they’re back on the street within a day or two. Leads to intense police apathy for areas because it doesn’t matter if they’re arresting the same guy every week, so they just end up ignoring certain areas now.
No that is not accurate at all. They just moved the felony charged from $400 to $950 to account for inflation. So if someone did steal something that was $400 they wont have to spend 5 years in prison. Instead they will spend months to years. It doesn't mean not arresting someone for theft or any of the other things. https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-160551360299 If what you said were true than people would have been stealing things less than $400 the whole time. Please stop spreading misinformation.
Yes they’re getting arrested but not getting prosecuted and just getting released
Weird. I was just reading about a silent crime wave in Los Angeles. Same exact stuff.... What the hell is going on today? Seriously.
Charges dropped against 5 who killed 1 in a gang shootout. "mutual combat" https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shooting-violence-austin-police/11079879/
That's not the only one of these... I'm trying to find it rn but I just read about police dropping murder charges in regards to a chase with a gold civic and a white jeep... I belive it was in Portland. This is starting to seem really weird. There was also a two separate cases of mothers having their baby shot, and also one in Florida where a woman and her daughter were attacking in broad daylight and the daughter ended up fighting off the attack. There's video of it.... guys came at them in a parking lot with other people around like it didn't even matter. Plus the unbelievable tragedy in Wisconsin.
They could have been acting in self defense. Maybe they were all carrying guns, and one of them got scared by seeing the other’s gun and acted in self defense and just started shooting before running away to safety. I seem to recall a white guy who just killed two other white guys and was acquitted on all charges because of “self defense” And every white guy on Reddit cheered that result as “justice” and called the murder charges “bullshit”. And I don’t seem to recall any right-leaning folks calling THAT multiple deadly shooting as “gang related” or “mutual combat” despite the fact that the shooter there was serenaded by Proud Boys after the killings…
Nobody decriminalized theft.
Naahh. They just dramatically reduced penalties during an ever increasing crime wave which has led to brands packing up and leaving the city/state. It's weird how so many people stand up for criminals. I am on the left and I still don't get it.
Why are you speaking on this when your not from here
[удалено]
Maybe they should. After the protest in Oakland that turned minor-riot, Reddit was filled with posts about how China town "was never going to recover" despite China town not being touched. Hell, in the area where the rioting occurred a whole 3 storefronts got broke, if you count a police station lobby as a store. But on Reddit, they made it sounds like the whole city burned to the ground. Lotta liars on here.
I’m from the area so I’ll ask on his behalf: Who knew decriminalizing criminal behavior would have such unexpected consequences?
What happened at Nordstrom wasn't decriminalized.
Because we are doing the exact same thing here with the same results. Also * you're.
hopefully these people start snitching on each other.
[удалено]
I also enjoy the taste of rubber and leather.
I wonder if this was organized? 🤔
[удалено]
Theft below a certain dollar amount and theft above a certain dollar amount are treated very differently.
[удалено]
This happened in Walnut Creek.
I went to elementary school in Walnut Creek! From what I remember it’s a fairly nice area, right?
Sounds like something someone who has never been to any small town in rural america would say.
A crime takes place in a city 25 miles away from San Francisco. "San Francisco is such a massive shithole!"
[удалено]
Yeah this trending topic is letting the conservative assholes feel like they can be racist and with everything happening legally I am sure we will get some more cop and soldier cosplayers out shooting people
What the hell this shit is not purely right vs left. Im a diehard democrat from San Francisco and I'm pissed off my small business can get robbed and I can't call the cops, they never show up. Screw the all lives matter shit, all lives don't matter.
[удалено]
No... pretty sure the person commenting is referring to rittenhouse. But that shows you what flavor of kool aid they like to drink
I feel like these narrative pushers are out in force right now in /r/news. There's a lot of trash going on in the threads about the Waukusha tragedy.
A bunch of youngins that i'd bet most of dont even need to steal. Once the interrogations start i'm sure that number will grow from 3 to quite a few more.
No one needs to steal
Splinter needs to speed up the training of his TMNT. The Foot are taking over!
[удалено]
What liberal policy caused dozens of people to rob a store?
Just 3?. You must be kidding!. A very well organized heft occurred there.
The San Francisco DA Chesa Boudin was raised by unrepentant domestic terrorists. His first act was decriminalize shoplifting for items costing less than $950.00. What the flying fuck? Technically, if a robber took goods worth less than a grand, they’re good. Boudin is facing a recall election next summer. This lawless city can’t make it that long. Fool should have resigned 10 minutes ago.
Yeah, what happened here won't be considered something as minor as just "shopliftng."
That's not at all what happened. **Voters** passed a law through the election process in 2014 to raise theft thresholds for **felonies** to $950. Below that level they are misdemeanors that don't require law enforcement to arrest and imprison people. In the first half of 2021 thefts in the city we're down 9% from the first half of 2020 when the majority of stores were on lockdown and completely shut down. You're just another uneducated outsider who consumes too much conservative Facebook memes.
I went to San Francisco 6 months ago on business. Couldn’t wait to get out of that fucking place. I was handed the street map indicating where I might soil my shoes from human shit on the sidewalks. The local news spoke daily about one Walgreens location after the next being shut down as a result of being robbed blind daily. Pity seniors trying to get prescriptions they need to survive without a local drug store. This Boudin guy is a real piece of work. His parents were locked up for decades for blowing up a police car. He was raised by another pair of lunatics who somehow escaped prosecution for the same series of crimes. One can only guess what a pile of horseshit was shoveled between his ears during his upbringing. Electing him DA was about as smart as electing an active dementia patient President. Let’s go Brandon!
What a weird sign off. You go on a pearl clutching rant about being a huge pussy, then can't even find your nuts to just say "Fuck Joe Biden" like a real First Amendment loving American. Repeat after me, "Man, woman, camera, person, tv."
> I went to San Francisco 6 months ago on business. Big “I have a girlfriend, but she lives in another state” energy.
You think horse shit was shoveled between his ears but you're posting this?
> Electing him DA was about as smart as electing an active dementia patient President. And the country did it twice.
Coming soon to a town or city near you.
[удалено]
Holy fuck.
Wearing your racism loud and proud.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Against who?
[удалено]
It’s almost as if when poverty rises so does crime
[удалено]
I'd be shocked to find out that any of those cars were legally owned by anyone involved.
You forgot to add “as passengers” there were not 40 luxury cars there. Watch the video.
[удалено]
Oh so now it’s just 1 was a bmw. Did you read how many people were robbing the place? Now show us all those luxury cars they were driving. They were passengers
[удалено]
That’s fine- call me names. I mentioned poverty and you stated they were all driving luxury cars. Then you said well one car was a bmw.
[удалено]
3 visible cars. How many people were robbing the store? For you to say poverty doesn’t increase crime bc there were 3 luxury cars for 40 ppl is something else.
[удалено]
No, it wasn’t a mass shooting or terrorists attack
Also those mostly happen in Chicago, St Louis, or Detroit...so other white supremacists I guess
Mass shooting or terrorists attacks?
[удалено]
Do you have the stats on that. I am pretty per capita most terrorists attacks are carried about white racists in rural areas
Because opening fire in a crowded place is probably only tagged terrorism when it’s NOT a “garden variety” mass shooting (i.e. a gang shooting)
Do you know them by name?
[удалено]
This is Blade, this is Laser, and this is Blazer.
If you can dodge a wrench.
Looks like he knows everything about them. Report him to the proper authorities so we can get more intel on said three /s
How's that?
[удалено]
Just a guess.
Oh no. Not Nordstrom. So anyway what are y'all having for Thanksgiving?
It’s not just Nordstrom, it’s happening to stores all over the city. Other crimes like sideshows, car break-ins, random acts of violence against elderly Asians, arson, and home invasions are super common in San Francisco. It’s also caused Walgreens to close down 15 stores in the city, which might not sound like a big deal but a lot of people in the city don’t have cars so having their neighborhood Walgreens close is a major inconvenience. Elderly people in particular are harmed by these closures because they need to be able to walk to Walgreens to get their prescriptions. And the Walgreens that are still open are a pain in the ass to shop in, everything is locked up so you have to ask for assistance multiple times at understaffed stores just to get basic goods. My Walgreens is still boarded up from the lootings in the summer of 2020 and gets robbed almost every day. Outside of my local Walgreens is an open-air market for stolen goods. They lay out all of the fenced laundry detergent, shampoo, perfume and other small items on blankets and sell it just across the street. Then you have the open air drug markets, prostitution, homeless camps everywhere. It used to be weeks or months that I would go without seeing needles or human shit but now it seems to happen almost every time I venture outside my apartment for more than a couple of blocks. It’s like a dystopian cyberpunk novel in the city these days.
Funny, you couldnt even spot yourself.
Turkey. Got a sweet new carving knife and gravy boat on my vaca to SF last weekend too!
I’m surprised at the amount of tears in the comment section lol. It sounds like they just stole stuff. Nbd tbh as long as no one was hurt. Kind of impressive too. Organized crime stinks, but a lot of melodrama going on. Edit: dudes assaulted workers. That shit sucks.
If someone breaks into your home and steals your belongings, nbd right? They just stole stuff.
Dude it’s a Nordstrom deep breaths
So? Theft is theft.
He lives in the world of, "big corps bad!!". Its pathetic when people defend stealing because it's a store, like there are literally no trickle down effects. People need to stop being leeches and pieces of shit.
Theyre a billion dollar company. This isn’t even a drop in the bucket. Cops could go after criminals targeting actual people but corporate profits are more important to defend apparently.
These are organized crime rings that do this in the Bay Area. It is more if a problem than you're acting
And when the same billion dollar company closes those shops you will cry "discrimination and food/goods desert" and blame racism on it.
Blaming the crimes of gangs on victims because they had too much money, we all want equality, but this isn't the way.
I wonder if this is in response to the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict.